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"This is Undaunted Life" a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right, guys.
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Today we've got a special guest on the podcast.
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Her name is Yeon Mi Park.
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So she's a North Korean defector and also a human rights activist.
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She wrote a memoir back in 2015 called "In order to live a North Korean girl's journey
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to freedom."
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And then she also has a new book out as of the recording this.
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It is out now, "Wildtime Remains a North Korean Defector Search for Freedom in America."
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And so a lot of you have heard her story because she's been on the Joe Rogan podcast.
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She's been on the Jordan Peterson.
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She's done some stuff with, yeah, I think Prager, you definitely done some stuff a daily wire.
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The thing about this interview today, and I'm just going to tell you right from the jump,
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we've done a lot of episodes.
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Again, this is episode 400 something.
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We've done dozens and dozens and dozens of interviews.
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This is the best interview that we've ever done on the show, okay?
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And I know it's kind of weird because it's like, I'm the one that did it.
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So it's like, oh, bragging on yourself.
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I'm like, no, no, just the preparation that went into it because, you know, I've basically
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been working on this for about two years.
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And we finally got it done, got it recorded in just hearing her perspective because in
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guys, I don't really want to give anything away because there's so many details in the
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books, her memoir, and then her latest book, and there's so many things that come out in
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this interview.
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If you've ever felt like a tough guy, you're not.
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If you've ever felt like you're a really resilient human being and here I am, I'm the
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guy that goes around preaching the gospel of resilience, right?
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We don't even understand what trials really are, what, what having to be resilient, resilient
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and digging down deep even is, but she does.
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And she's somehow come out of it on the other side to be an activist and to also be an optimist.
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And so, I mean, in this interview, we talk about what it was like growing up in North
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Korea without information, without food, what it was like to literally be starving to having
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to go to the field to try and find grasshoppers to eat, to get a little bit of protein.
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We talk about her escaping to China and how she was sex trafficked for years, her and
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her mother both.
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She escaped to South Korea going across the Gobi desert when it was minus 40 degrees and
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all she had, it was like a thin coat and bad shoes, making it to South Korea, making it
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to America, getting to America after having experienced all of that.
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And then she's surrounded by people that have never been hungry, never been cold.
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And yet they're complaining about the trauma that they experience in their lives.
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And then we also get into what she's doing for advocacy now and guys, I mean, again,
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the entire time I'm doing the interview, I'm just like, okay, just don't mess anything
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up.
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Just set her up.
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But we also talk about her, her Christian faith as well because she was helped out by
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Christian missionaries.
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And there's a little bit of dissonance with these missionaries because these were the people
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that saved her from, from China and basically got her through Mongolia to South Korea.
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But they also had a deep negative impact on how she viewed God and viewed the propitiation
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that can be provided by the sacrifice of Jesus.
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Yes, all of that is involved in this interview today.
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And again, I just have to repeat that I've loved just about every interview that we've
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done.
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There's some that haven't turned out great, some turned out kind of dramatic.
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But then there's been so many that have been so impactful on you guys and certainly on
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me in my personal life, nothing as I sit here right now, having just wrapped up this interview
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feels like this interview feels like it is on a completely different level.
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So guys, I'm not going to keep her from you any longer.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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You on me, park.
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Welcome to undaunted life.
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A man's podcast.
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Thank you for having me on.
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I am so happy to have you on.
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I've actually been, I feel like I've been working on this episode for a couple of years
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because we've been trying to get you on.
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I've been studying your materials and some of the things and you have a new book out.
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But today's interview, we're going to be looking a lot at what you did with your initial memoir,
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which is in order to live, which is just an unbelievably powerful book.
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But then you have a new book out that's out right now as of the recording of this podcast
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and its wild time remains.
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And so those are kind of be the center points of our conversation today.
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But I want to read a quick quote from your memoir because it kind of sets up what it
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was like living for you in North Korea.
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And so this is from your memoir in order to live.
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I am most grateful for two things that I was born in North Korea and that I escaped from
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North Korea.
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Both of these events shaped me and I would not trade them for an ordinary, peaceful life.
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So let's just start casually and just go to the introduction.
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What was it like growing up in North Korea?
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I mean, just one word.
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It's horrible.
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It's beyond anything that you can imagine.
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I was growing up in North Korea and I've never seen the map of the world.
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So I had no idea there was a country like America and this prosperous free country existed.
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And the only thing that I knew actually about America was how horrible American people were.
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I didn't even think that you guys were human beings.
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My school teachers told me that you guys are cold-blooded reptiles who eat our children,
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torture our children, rape our women and we were so fortunate that we had our dear leader
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to defend us and keep us safe from American invasion.
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So that's all I knew about the world growing up there.
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And so obviously you touched on a little bit there.
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The brainwashing, the brainwashing with kind of the understanding of the Kim family, what
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other people were like, Americans being reptiles, just having a complete lack of information.
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Talk to me a little bit about the overall lack of freedom because we'll certainly get
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more into this later when we talk about when you relocated to the United States and everything
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from your new book, but talk about when you're growing up in North Korea, what are the things
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that we're used to here in America that you just have no possibility of doing if you're
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living there?
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I mean, for instance, even wearing a jin, in America, jins are okay, but in North Korea,
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they even regulate goes down to what you wear, what you can listen to, what you can watch,
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what kind of haircut you can have.
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And there's no freedom of movement, people have no free press.
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So there's nothing you can do by your own life free world, but this regime decides what
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you belong to, who you're going to marry, what job you're going to have, is before even
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your birth.
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So when we were born in North Korea, we have 51 different classes.
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And this caste system is based upon your loyalty towards the regime.
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So basically, like currently in America, people are being divided by skin color.
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Like I have a son who is half white, half Asian, I would say he's so screwed because
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now people say that he has a oppressor jin, he's oppressed skin color, right?
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Because he's white.
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In North Korea, exactly the method that if my ancestors were capitalists or landlords,
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that means my blood is painted, and that's why everybody's North Korean, like, depending
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on your class, how much you get fed is decided based on your loyalty towards the regime.
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And there's no movement between classes, right?
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Like you can't marry into a different classes, that correct?
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You can't move from one to the other.
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So that's how they do, they try to prevent people to mixing up and moving around the
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classes.
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A lower caste caste will marry the higher caste men.
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What happens is that the entire family of the men's caste all goes down with the women's.
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So I mean, that's the reason why my family is going to do whatever it takes to oppose
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the marriage.
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That's how they prevent the, you know, mixing it up.
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Gotcha.
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And so you're talking about how the different castes that you were in, because most people
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think of caste systems as like, oh, they choose who you marry, but in North Korea, it's just
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completely different.
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But you talked about the level of food that different castes would have there in North
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Korea.
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And so you've talked about this a lot, but I think it's interesting to live in a country
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that is just, I mean, we're the fattest country on the planet.
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It's just embarrassing how big we are as Americans.
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But what you had to go through growing up in North Korea as it pertained to food will
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never have to deal with here in this country.
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So give us a little detail on what it was like growing up in terms of food, because there's
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a lot that's been said about the malnutrition of North Korea, even just compared to South
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Korea.
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But I mean, for you, you actually experienced it.
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Yeah.
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I think it's sometimes really breaks my heart to see the food that we raised in America.
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If we gave all that trash, basically to North Korean people, nobody would have the time
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from starvation.
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We are so hungry to the point.
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Some even children would like to look for grains in animal faces.
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Children would eat mud, even though they know that they're eventually going to cry, but
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they cannot go back and die from eating mud.
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They say eat that mud.
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I myself had to eat grasshoppers, dragonflies, and anything I could find in nature to survive
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in North Korea.
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And this is based on the regime's policy that North Korea conducted more than 40 missile
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tests for over the last three years.
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One missile test is the price where he can fit the entire nation of North Korean people
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entire year.
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So if we conducted three less missile tests, nobody had to die from starvation in North
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Korea.
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But the reason why we are starving is if we had a full, you know, stomach of food in
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our belly, we are going to start thinking about meaning of life, we are sick, thinking about
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freedom.
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So if they kept us starving like that, the only thing is going forced to go by finding
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next meal.
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That's why the regime using starvation as a tool to control the population.
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So it's so interesting to hear you say that because I remember Jordan Peterson, who you've
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got to spend some time with and so have I, and he wrote the forward to your new book,
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which again, we'll get into a little bit later.
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He talks about how starvation is basically been eradicated in the entire world, except
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when corruption or corrupt governments are involved.
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And so again, you just explained it there.
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If the Kim's would not do the things they want to do with the missile program, they would
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be able to feed the people inside their country, but talk to me a little bit more about the
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Kim's and how they are viewed and how you are forced to view them growing up in North
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Korea.
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Because I think as Americans, we're familiar, at least tangentially with, with dictators.
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We're familiar with, you know, these authoritarian fascist leaders.
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We're familiar with, you know, Stalin and Polpot and Hitler and, and all these different
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people.
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But even in the height of Hitler's reign in Germany, no one thought he was divine.
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No one thought he was sent here.
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So, so give us a little bit of an education as to how North Koreans are to view the Kim
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family.
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So this is a very interesting point that people don't understand before the Korean war, before
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the comments in came to North Korea, it was the East Jerusalem, it was the Jerusalem of
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Korea.
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The North Korean Pyongyang especially had the most vibrant missionaries that from the West
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and there are so many Christians in Pyongyang.
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And then Kim Il-sung's mother and uncle and his family actually were devout Christians.
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So Kim Il-sung left home and was like trying to fight for the independence later when he
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was placed as a leader by Stalin, he decided to get killed Christians obviously and persecute
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them all.
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And anybody, even through this day, if you own a Bible, you get executed in North Korea.
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If you are a Christian, obviously three generations of your family get executed in the prison camp.
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But at the time he realized he can be God.
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And so he basically copied the Bible.
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He's a 10 commandments to the North Korean elected or she gave to North Korean people.
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And he said he loved us so much that he gave us his son, Kim Jong-il, and he's a Jewish
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quest.
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His body dies, but his spirit is with us forever and he knows what we think.
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And then every Saturday North Korean children have to go to a classroom or their workplace.
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We have to find this like a red note and write down verses of a Kim Il-sung, like a Bible,
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Bible verses, write down Kim Il-sung, and then we say thank you dear leader, even though
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I was not the best revolutionary for this week, for your mercy, you forgive my sin,
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I will become better revolutionary next time.
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And at the end of this criticism session, we have to pick our classmates to criticize.
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And that instead destroys between people.
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Like imagine even nine years old ago to school, an entire week you need to look for who has
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done something wrong because you need to find somebody to criticize every Saturday.
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So everybody's watching each other.
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So in some ways, it's the most like crazy religious authority you can imagine.
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And then for North Korean people, they don't even have 24 hours electricity in the 21st
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century.
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They don't even know the existence of the internet.
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They don't have passport.
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They have no freedom to travel.
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But all they know is this lie prepared up from the regime.
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And what you're describing on me with with all the things we've talked about so far is
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just, it's a unique and interesting and just a deep level of suffering.
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But when you're around that much suffering, it's got to be hard to process it also.
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There's another quote I want to read from your memoir here.
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There were so many desperate people on the streets crying for help that you had to shut
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off your heart or the pain would be too much after a while.
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You can't care anymore and that is what hell is like.
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And you'll remember whenever I read that because I probably I read that part of your
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memoir a couple of years ago and that stuck with me even to this day because I've talked
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to other people that have been in war zones or that have been in these, these horrible
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places where children are suffering or whatever.
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And it's like, if you feel the way you want to feel about each of those individual children
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or people, you'll just combust like you'll just explode.
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It's not possible for you to take it all.
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But take me through that because you weren't experiencing this as an adult.
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You were experiencing this as a child looking upon these people that are in this just this
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pathetic state.
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And not only could you not do anything, but you couldn't even feel enough empathy to help
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them or to give them a kind word.
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I just can't really fathom it to be honest.
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Yeah, it's a I just remember seeing this one young man or I don't know if he needs four
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or like early twenties young man, when you're so man, you wish every hole in your body just
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opens up and behind him, his organs were just falling out of him and they're like flies
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and their dog is waiting for him to die off.
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And why is organs all came out of him?
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He was like, for food.
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And I was looking down and I was just here numb at that point, you know.
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And I think in some sense that's how our brain protects us to help us to survive the situation.
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And in North Korea, it's a compassion is not a word that people use.
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There's no word for love.
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North Korean people die without ever someone said say to them that somebody loves them.
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Like when I was in North Korea, my father never told him he loved me, he passed away.
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So even very basic thing that is compassion, love is being denied.
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Because Kim Jong Un was afraid that if people like he banned the mother's day few years
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ago, and the thought was if we love our mothers, we are not going to love him as much.
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So he even banned the love between mother and the child.
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So in North Korea is a different planet, like even that very basic thing that as a human
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can do empathy, that is now loved.
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And you talk about the brainwashing and the control of thoughts, but now you're also talking
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about the control of language in that, you know, I was shocked to read that there is no
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word for love or empathy or compassion or something in the North Korean vernacular.
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And so the what this all kind of led to, and again, we're skipping over a lot.
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So I think it's well worth everybody's time to buy your new book, Wild Time Remains and
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also your memoir, because you get into a lot of detail where we're just skimming the surface.
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But when you were 13, you and your family decided that you would try to escape North
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Korea and go to China.
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And so human traffickers actually tricked you and your mother to follow them to China.
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And in your memoir, you describe finding out that your mother was actually raped by one
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of the traffickers.
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And you found out that your mom had actually done this to protect you because it was actually
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you that the trafficker wanted to rape.
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And then a little later, you actually described seeing your mother raped by one of the traffickers
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and how that was in the most macabre way, that was actually your introduction to the
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act of sex.
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And I've heard you tell the story many times and it's not lost on me that this is a terrible
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thing to talk about.
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But can you describe the decision making process to try and escape North Korea and then also
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the subsequent issues that you ran into once you got into China?
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Yeah.
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So as you said, you know, North Koreans, we don't even know there's much else that would
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exist.
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And I was living on the border town of North Korea.
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So I was able to see these lights and I coming from Chinese side.
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And that's when we thought like if we go over the last war, we could find something to eat.
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And my sister escaped first when she was six years old.
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And then one week later, my mother and I followed her.
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We found a lady who wanted to help us to cross the river into China.
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And when you are so desperate, you don't even question.
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If I didn't cross the night, I would die from starvation long ago.
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So we didn't follow her and then she matched her to the broker.
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And like you said, the first thing I was saying in China was my mother being raped.
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And then they were selling us as sex slaves.
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So there was one child passed in China that recently got ended.
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Due to that policy, a lot of people were voting girls and kept the boys.
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So now there are more than 33 million men who cannot find the wives in China.
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So they buy North Korean girls as their sex toys.
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And also for organ harvesting, they need to buy the girls and take their organs out and
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discard their body because we are not protected by any law.
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And killing was like a killing of mice, you know, not even a less valuable and dull one
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pig.
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Nobody going to hold them accountable.
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And that was my favorite when I got to China.
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It was in some sense, it's worse than what North Korea was.
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And so you mentioned how how you and your mother were sold and you were actually sold
19:05
separately as part of these human trafficking transactions.
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But one thing I felt that was interesting as you described the story on me is that you
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describe what it was like hearing men barter and negotiate for you and your mother as
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if you were an animal of some kind.
19:22
Take us through that because as a young lady, as a 13 year old, you're hearing these men
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compare you and your mother and almost pit you against one another and where can they
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place you?
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Take us through that.
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Yeah, I think I remember they would like me stand up and maybe turn around and check
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my teeth and check our like bones and everything and see if we have any defects, right?
19:44
We are like disabled or not.
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And then they started negotiating and my mom would just in her 40s just turn 40 or something.
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So they were like, is she able to reproduce or not?
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Because they, if the women can reproduce, then they will sell the babies as like foreign
20:03
like industry as a sex slave.
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So a lot of those women are being bought and they buy them and they get impregnate them
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and then they keep making them to get pregnant and sell those child.
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And these are the more than a million of these children in China right now who were born
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by North Korean women.
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So they were negotiating that I was 13 years old and I was a virgin.
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And this perverted men, they love child virginity.
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So they were ranking my price over $20 and they were making my mother were sold for $65.
20:45
And again, it's just astonishing to hear that in this country where, you know, in this country
20:49
we have people that wait to have their families and then maybe they struggle to get pregnant
20:53
and then they have to go through all these different processes to get pregnant.
20:56
And it's, it's usually a joyous thing.
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And then, then over there, it's like, again, you're just a commodity, just like, you know,
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an animal giving birth to another animal that you can sell.
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And so again, it just kind of gives you an idea of the level of depravity that you were
21:08
dealing with in that area.
21:09
And young me, things got so bad for you and your mother in China that you decided that
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you were going to try to escape to Mongolia, but not to relocate and stay in Mongolia,
21:19
but with the eventual goal of making it to South Korea.
21:22
And so you were helped along in this goal of escaping by a group of Christian missionaries
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and we'll talk more about the Christian missionaries here in a second.
21:30
But take us through that process of getting from China to Mongolia to South Korea.
21:35
Why did that have to be the way you had to go?
21:37
So in China, we don't have any paid passport or ID or documents.
21:45
And if we get caught by Chinese police, they would catch us and send us back North Korea
21:50
to get killed and tortured or send prison camps.
21:53
So we are extremely vulnerable.
21:55
The only way for us to escape from China was actually walking across the frozen Gobi Desert
22:02
into Mongolia.
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And somehow if we didn't die in the desert and made it to Mongolia, then Mongolia might
22:08
help us to go to South Korea as refugees.
22:12
So you mentioned going across the Gobi Desert.
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When most of us here desert, we think 100 degrees sand everywhere, but talk about crossing
22:22
the Gobi Desert at the time that you were crossing it because my understanding is, the
22:26
time of year that you were crossing the Gobi Desert, temperatures would get to -30, -40.
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And it wasn't like you were in the world's best gear to make that trip.
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So let's talk a little bit more about what it was like actually crossing the desert.
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Yeah, so this was almost end of February 2009 when I was 15 years old.
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We had one toddler in our group and we had a total eight people including that child.
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And then they told us, gave us one compass and then told us, "Why don't you go far
22:59
out the north and mass direction and cross eight wire fences?"
23:05
And that might be Mongolia and if you get caught by the Mongolian soldiers, Ted and
23:10
then we are back to G. But going through these wire fences and desert, it's like they are
23:16
polar guards with machine guns.
23:18
If they see anybody cross, they're going to - it's not like an American border, you can
23:22
just walk in.
23:23
This literally just shoot you, shoot to kill the order.
23:27
Like they just shoot you and you die and no, this is cross the border illegally and that's
23:32
nobody can question their authority to do that.
23:35
And this, the wire fences are electrified.
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So if you touch it, you can select wire and die.
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So that's why we needed miracle and we chose the coldest month.
23:50
And so the guards would think like, "Nobody's crazy enough to go through this desert right
23:54
now because - 40 degrees, you breathe, it becomes all icy cold."
24:01
If you don't move for five seconds, you can literally die from freezing to death and we
24:06
don't have gears like gloves or hair or scarf, we're just wearing thin jacket, no gloves,
24:13
not no boots, just started walking from Gobi Desert and somehow against all of us, I survived.
24:20
So Yomi, I just recently read a book about a World War II pilot that was shot down over
24:25
Germany and then he was in a German POW camp.
24:28
His name is Frank Murphy.
24:29
And there was a death march that they were on and I remember hearing these stories about
24:34
these other soldiers that on this march in the snow, very, very cold, similar situation,
24:38
that these men would just walk out of line and walk into the snow and they would just
24:42
sit down.
24:43
And it's just like, "Look, I can't go anymore, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to die."
24:49
And these are strong, you know, young military-aged men, but they got to a point where they broke
24:55
mentally.
24:56
I want you to talk a little bit more because again, guys, we need to set the scene.
25:00
She was not in snow boots.
25:01
Yomi was not wearing a parka that you could, you know, wear and, you know, go up and climb
25:06
a mountain during the wintertime, thin jacket, thin clothes, not the world's best shoes.
25:11
You know, again, minus 40 degree temperatures.
25:14
Was there a time during that, Yomi, where you're like, "Okay, this is terrible.
25:19
Like I'd rather be back in North Korea or was it like, "Look, I'm either going to make
25:23
it or I'm going to die trying.
25:25
Just take me through that mindset because to be honest, I don't have anything that even
25:29
comes close to that in my life and I'm assuming most of the guys listening to this don't either."
25:33
Yeah.
25:34
It's like, what shocked me standing on that copy desert was it's like standing in front
25:40
of the middle of the ocean.
25:42
There is nothing indicates you that you're going forward or going circle or backward.
25:48
There's not, it's just pure sand and flat.
25:53
So I was thinking like, "Are we going back or are we going forward?
25:56
Are we going sideways?"
25:59
And then it was pitch dark.
26:01
Eventually we got to see some stars, but there's times throughout the night based on the cloud
26:07
everything you see some stars and become pitch dark.
26:10
And another danger that we had to avoid in the desert was not the soldiers, of course,
26:15
but then the animals.
26:16
They're very wide animals and snakes that's calm and eat people because they're very hungry,
26:23
too.
26:24
And I remember the missions that were told us that if you cross eight wire fences, it's
26:30
going to become Mongolia.
26:33
So we keep looking for wire fences.
26:35
But then you hallucinate, you know, because you want it so much.
26:39
You feel like there's a wire fence and you run and run and go, it's not there.
26:44
And it literally, you might just lose your mind at that point.
26:50
And I think that's when you don't even have strength to pray, all we said, it was Jesus
26:58
blood is my blood, Jesus blood is my blood.
27:01
And I think that's the only thing we said.
27:05
And just keep thinking that line, what that means, and just keep going.
27:10
And somehow miracle saved us.
27:14
And you made it to Mongolia and we'll get more into the rest of your trip here in a
27:17
second.
27:18
And that's something that you said earlier, because the Christian missionaries that helped
27:21
you told you and your mother to prepare for the very real possibility that you would be
27:27
captured and sent back to North Korea.
27:29
So I went actually read a quote from your new book that's out now, Wild Time Remains.
27:33
I remember preparing myself for suicide.
27:36
My mother and I had a plan for if we were caught, she had hidden dozens of razor blades
27:40
in my jacket and a plastic bag full of sleeping pills in her bra.
27:44
We cried as we rehearsed the steps if we got caught by the authorities.
27:47
We tried to lighten the emotional burden by reassuring each other that we were lucky
27:51
to be in such a position at all, to finally escape to freedom or else to finally be released
27:56
from hell.
27:57
Our journey to the other side, wherever that may be, would be together.
28:01
We would be together.
28:02
It would be to freedom and again, excuse me, just to even put yourself in that position
28:09
to where you're like, okay, I'm almost going on a suicide mission, walking across the Gobi
28:14
desert, but that's not nearly as scary as the colds, not nearly scary as the animals,
28:18
which isn't nearly as scary as the soldiers that are going to take us and send us back
28:21
where you would be executed immediately.
28:24
But it was almost like you and your mother, you took because you hadn't been in control
28:28
of your lives for your entire lives, but you were going to control your last moments on
28:33
this earth.
28:34
If that were to happen, again, I feel almost shameful even keeping to bring it up.
28:39
But none of us in the audience on me have ever gone through something like that or even thought
28:43
through that.
28:44
But take me through those moments where you and your mother were rehearsing your suicides
28:49
just in case you were captured.
28:52
I think that's the thing when I was living through North Korea and China, actually dying
28:58
was the easiest thing that I could do.
29:00
Dying takes the maximum five minutes, living takes forever.
29:04
So I think when we were preparing it, it wasn't like any sadness or anything.
29:10
We were just numb.
29:14
We were just trying to survive and if we don't make it, there was nothing made me resent
29:21
for at that point.
29:22
All I knew about the world was just darkness and suffering.
29:28
And we never learned how to complain even either.
29:31
That was not a thing for us or complain how unfair it is that we were born in North Korea.
29:36
I think all we just were thinking is, if we get caught, if we get caught, it's not they
29:42
are going to actually execute immediately.
29:44
They're going to send us back to North Korea and the first thing they're going to do is
29:48
raping us, taking our nerves away, they're going to torture us and they're going to let
29:54
us die in the most horrible way that you can imagine.
29:58
So actually killing ourselves just immediately was the biggest blessing that we could ask
30:03
for from God.
30:05
And I think that's what we're hoping.
30:07
If we get caught, please let us kill ourselves and we don't have to go that far.
30:14
So Yeonmi, when you were working with the Christian missionaries, you describe a moment
30:21
because everything that you've described as I read in your book or as I've heard you speak,
30:26
all that is awful in a physical way and an emotional way.
30:30
But then there was also some spiritual things that were going on in this moment that I just
30:34
would just absolutely took my breath away.
30:36
But when you're working with the Christian missionaries, you describe a time when the
30:39
pastor called a prayer meeting where you all would confess sins and ask for forgiveness.
30:45
Now this is different than what you experienced in the classrooms in North Korea, where you're
30:49
trying to point out the sins of somebody else.
30:52
This is a moment where you're basically confessing sins and asking for forgiveness.
30:55
And after you and your mother did this, that pastor pressed you to continue.
31:01
He wanted you to keep going and he wanted you to basically say your sins to the entire
31:06
group and ask for forgiveness.
31:08
And you and your mother at that moment actually confessed to working in sex chat rooms in
31:13
Xinjiang, China while you were basically just trying to survive.
31:17
Can you actually take us through that situation?
31:19
Because the pastor responded to you in a way that just absolutely made me sick to my stomach.
31:25
Can you take us through that?
31:27
So after we were bought, I was bought by the human trafficker.
31:33
And then I made it, I was going to kill myself.
31:35
I couldn't take that shame at 13 and then he said, "If you become my mistress, I'm going
31:41
to help you to bring your family."
31:43
So I sacrificed myself to bring myself to my family.
31:47
I became his mistress and he bought my mom back from the farmer.
31:51
I then brought my sick father from North Korea, but he passed away eventually.
31:55
So after two years of slavery, roughly, he wouldn't let me go for some reason.
32:02
But even if he lets me go as a North Korean doctor, we couldn't even get a job to wash
32:07
dishes.
32:08
We were begging, "Can we just let's wash some dishes and sleep in the corner of the kitchen?"
32:15
People would not let us to do that.
32:17
So the only place we could end up going was actually brothers where we would be in a room
32:24
and there's like 50 times of rape every day and the price for us was getting fed and staying
32:31
hiding in a room.
32:32
And then our friend, North Korean defector, told us there's a way we can be safe was actually
32:38
joined this chat room where no man physically touches, but we need to show our bodies to
32:44
do the webcam.
32:45
If we do that, they're going to give us the apartment to stay and it will give us food
32:49
to eat.
32:51
And that was the only way we could survive in China.
32:54
So now we meet this missionary in the prayer meeting.
32:57
He asked us to confess everything that we did.
33:02
And of course we confessed all this.
33:05
And then he said, "I think we are too dirty.
33:11
I think we are too guilty to be, I think, redeemed or forgiven by God."
33:17
And I think that's, I think trauma led me pretty, pretty bad.
33:21
That's, I think, for the first time I realized even though it wasn't my fault of going through
33:25
all of this, but the world is never going to forgive me what I did to survive.
33:32
So again, like I said, young me, whenever I read that, I was, I was sick to my stomach.
33:37
I was angry for you.
33:40
And two degrees, like I almost want to apologize, even though like it, I wasn't the one that
33:44
did that.
33:45
I feel like what the pastor should have done at that moment, there's a couple of scriptures
33:48
that came to mind.
33:49
But in 1 John 1, 9, it's, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive
33:54
us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, okay?
33:58
So also in Hebrews 10, 10, and by that will we have been sanctified through the offering
34:03
of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
34:07
So I guess I just want to tell you that the way that he acted in that moment, young me,
34:11
was completely inappropriate and also not in accordance with what we learn from the New
34:17
Testament scriptures of the Bible, there is not a single person that cannot accept the
34:22
righteousness that Jesus gives us from his sacrifice.
34:26
I just, I guess how is that affected how you've thought about Christianity moving forward?
34:31
Because even in your new book, you kind of mentioned spirituality, you mentioned God,
34:36
but you also mentioned some confusion there, but I can imagine that being a starting point
34:40
of some real confusion, if you have this supposed pastor telling you, oh, well, you're so bad
34:46
you can't be forgiven.
34:48
It's just not right.
34:49
It's just not biblical.
34:50
How is that kind of framed the way that you've operated?
34:53
I think, of course, it made me to think of Christianity to be in that way, right?
34:58
To hearing about God and Jesus Christ for the first time through that context made me feel
35:04
like they were very judgmental.
35:06
And it's to some sense very mean, you know, it's like, I was still 15 years old child
35:12
and he was saying, I'm so dirty, like, I was like, what can I do?
35:16
There's nothing I could have done for my past.
35:19
It was not my choice.
35:22
And then I think it took a while.
35:23
I became atheist.
35:24
I mean, believe it or not, after I always ask her, even though we promised to these Christians
35:28
that I'm going to become a Christian afterwards, I lied, I mean, I couldn't follow the religion.
35:34
I was like, so sick and I just thought, I feel like it was like almost the same method
35:39
always in our religion was doing to us that we are somehow, there's no mercy, right?
35:45
Nobody can be forgiven.
35:47
And then it took a while for me to think, rethink about it and he was thinking, people
35:53
are not perfect.
35:55
Even though that's what at the moment he said, if you look at his actions, he was the only
36:02
man who risked his life to come to China to rescue us.
36:07
There's so many people saying virtuous things sitting at home in the comfort of software
36:12
and AC and nice, like, refrigerator.
36:15
They talk about all the great things about how to make the world a better place.
36:18
They don't do anything when it comes to actions, they don't take any risk.
36:23
And then I think that's when I realized she was actually the greatest hero I've ever met
36:28
in my life when it comes to action and I think that's very important for us to realize the
36:34
action and also accept that not everybody is perfect.
36:38
And then when I had my own son five years ago, that's I think I made God.
36:44
I was for the first time seeing the miracle.
36:47
I was holding my son in my arms like, this is not what I did.
36:50
This is God's job.
36:51
Like God created this human being and for me to take care of him, right?
36:57
And then since that point, I think somehow I start having a relationship with God and
37:04
now I'm full equation.
37:07
It's such an incredible story again and we'll get more just into your mindset because again,
37:11
I'm a very pessimistic guy and I haven't had a rough life and somehow I'm still pessimistic
37:16
and I still get frustrated when the Wi-Fi doesn't work properly or whatever that type of thing.
37:20
But there are a lot of people on me here in this country and I'm sure you've experienced
37:23
this since you've lived here, that they will have one bad experience with a church person,
37:28
right?
37:29
Maybe it's a pastor or a priest and sometimes they call it church hurt.
37:33
I don't know if you've heard that phrase church hurt like the church hurt them in some way
37:37
and I'm not talking about the people that have been sexually taken advantage of.
37:41
That's a whole different category, people that have been taken advantage of financially.
37:44
I'm talking about people that there was a mean pastor or there was a judgmental pastor
37:49
and from that point forward, they shut off that entire part of their life.
37:52
They don't believe in God anymore.
37:54
They certainly don't believe in the sacrifice of Jesus to provide propitiation for us to
37:59
be able to be before the Father.
38:01
But for you, you didn't shut it off.
38:03
You shut it off initially, but you didn't shut it off entirely.
38:06
So take me through that a little more because again, in America, it's so convenient for
38:10
people, especially when you can have all your needs met so easily to be like, ah, God, Jesus,
38:16
I don't really care.
38:17
I think it was the same thing actually, I was in New York City and so many of my girlfriends
38:25
hate men.
38:26
They think that men are horrible and we have all these problems in the world because of
38:31
what men and because they're in power, there's so much violence.
38:36
And like you said, there is a rapist that there are men and I really like the any guy
38:42
that I met in China, they were all my rapists.
38:44
They were all trying to rape me, but then remember that my father was a man who was the
38:49
most amazing man.
38:51
He gave everything he had to protect his own family and providing for his family without
38:56
him.
38:57
I would not be here and any woman currently alive, they would not be here without their
39:01
father.
39:02
Right.
39:03
So I think understanding life not as black and white and under not generalizing it because
39:10
there's some one pastor who's not the perfect person now and I think everything is that
39:16
way.
39:17
It's in a way, it's very uneducated, very shallow way of understanding words.
39:24
And people say to you asking me, like, how do you not hate men, like, how do you date
39:28
men?
39:29
And if I need to become a lesbian, you know, and like I love men and I have a son who is
39:35
a man.
39:36
And I became very men's advocate and people get so backward like somehow I defend men
39:42
in my life right now.
39:43
Well, you know me, you brought up your father.
39:46
So I want to get into here in a second, I want to get into going to South Korea and
39:49
basically that kind of being the start of your new life.
39:52
But your father features very prominently in both of your books, very unique man.
39:58
And obviously you need to go get the books to kind of dig in there.
40:01
But it's almost like understanding the type of man that your father was a virtuous man
40:06
like your father was almost gave you a pathway to your heavenly father.
40:10
Cause I know men that have bad fathers on, on this planet.
40:14
And then they're like, well, why would I want a heavenly father?
40:16
My, my father's so bad or he's absent or he beat me or he any of those types of things.
40:21
But if you were to almost summarize some of the things that helped you get through this
40:25
outside of God, it was, it was your dad.
40:27
Your dad gave you some very special things that are, they're inside of you, young me.
40:32
And like, even though he's not here anymore, it's like his spirit lives on through you.
40:36
And I don't mean that in kind of a new age way.
40:38
I just mean like the spirit with which he lived with his perspective, his ability to
40:43
be thankful, even in the face of horrible, uh, depravity.
40:47
So tell me, tell me a little bit more about your father again.
40:50
I know it's like we have short shrift because we have to move on in this podcast.
40:53
But again, it seems like he still has such a big impact on you.
40:57
Yeah.
40:58
I think, um, yeah, he's, he's, he's persevering me at his, he is with me.
41:05
Uh, I think I never questioned that.
41:07
I think in even my second book, I opened it as what he told me that, uh, tigers when they
41:14
die, they leave their skin and when humans die, we live our names.
41:19
So make, make your name long and lasting.
41:22
And that really stuck with me, how he was even in that vicious, common, stickators, living
41:27
through, he still tried to make life meaningful, like virtues, you know, that was helping other
41:35
people that was not just about himself, but always serving other people.
41:40
She sacrificed everything for his family to protect us and provide for us.
41:46
And he literally providing for us means in our skills, risking his life.
41:51
She wasn't, and then that's how he was sent to prison camp and get tortured and send us
41:55
more than 10 years.
41:57
And he died at the age of 45, not knowing what freedom was, not knowing a life can be
42:03
this comfortable, it's this prosperous.
42:07
So in some sense, like this man, all he knew was darkness and suffering, but somehow he
42:13
was always able to see the light and he was so resilient.
42:18
He told me, no matter how hard life punch you and push you down, you always get back
42:24
up like you already pull it all.
42:26
That's why he told me as a young girl, I was like, do you see that little doll?
42:30
No matter what I do, she'll not come back up.
42:33
That's what you need to do.
42:34
So that's how I understood life and he said, no matter what, life is a gift.
42:40
You need to fight for life.
42:41
No matter what, this is life is the most precious thing.
42:45
And now I come to America, people live in this comfort, they, of course, they say like
42:52
babies, mothers, traumas are not babies and that there's no appreciation for life.
42:58
There's never been a time this easy to fight for life.
43:04
And somehow my father had an appreciation for life that I don't know where he came from,
43:09
but he had that.
43:10
And I think to this day that he inspires me.
43:14
What inspires me to young me to, because again, everyone here in America for the most part
43:20
can look at their lives and, or it was the Warren Buffett quote that you put in your book
43:25
to where it's just like, okay, there's eight billion people on the planet.
43:28
If you had a big jar and everybody's life were a marble and you put all the marbles
43:32
in the jar, would you take the chance of reaching into that jar and switching your life for
43:37
somebody else's?
43:38
And if the answer is no, that means you have a blessed life because there are a lot of people
43:43
in this world, guys, a lot of people, billions of them that would throw their hand in the
43:48
jar, hoping to God they would end up in this country or in a country similar to it.
43:54
And so for you on me, you go through what you go through in North Korea and then into
43:58
China and the Gobi desert and Mongolia, but then you eventually do make it to South Korea
44:04
and you're trying to put your life together and get established in South Korea and you're
44:08
trying to assimilate to a quote unquote normal life, whatever that looks like in a new country
44:14
that is part of the same landmass as your old country, right?
44:17
But take us through that process of being a Korean, but being North Koreans, speaking
44:22
a little differently, looking a little different, obviously being smaller than your South Korean
44:27
counterparts because of malnutrition.
44:29
There's a lot there.
44:30
Go ahead.
44:31
Yeah, I think of course I got to South Korea.
44:34
First thing they do is taking me to hospital that we've never been to a health checkup
44:39
as North Koreans and we've been in China, exposed everything, they make sure that we
44:45
are not bringing new diseases to the South Korean population.
44:48
After that was cleared, they would put us in a two month of isolation and interrogation.
44:54
Make sure that we are North Koreans and make sure that we are not spies.
44:58
Once I think it's clear they put us into this three month period of education where first
45:04
thing is that Americans are not [inaudible], they are not reptiles, they are human beings,
45:10
they are like living under democracy and they told, they chose what bankies had to take
45:16
a subway and then for the first time I learned that Kim's were dictators, they told me everything
45:24
that you were taught and to believe was a lie.
45:28
But the biggest challenge for me was, so everything that I was reading before was a lie, how do
45:35
I know that why you're telling me it's not a lie?
45:38
I just could not trust again and then for the first time I had a thing for myself and
45:45
that was so hard, like being free was so so hard, like for the first time I had a thing
45:52
like what I'm going to wear, what I'm going to do, what I'm going to study, what kind
45:57
of life I'm going to leave and thinking about the responsibility that comes from being free,
46:03
that overrammed me and at some point I was thinking if I go back North Korea and the
46:08
region would not execute me and giving me some enough frozen potatoes, I would want to
46:13
go back North Korea to be a slave again and just be taken care of by this region.
46:19
That's so interesting you talk about kind of how freedom is so hard and again this all
46:25
kind of goes to what happens whenever you get to America but we'll get there eventually.
46:29
But one thing that's very interesting about your time in South Korea, you on me is that
46:32
you gained a tremendous hunger for education because you weren't being educated in North
46:36
Korea, you were being brainwashed, right?
46:38
You were given propaganda, you weren't given the basics of anything.
46:42
But because of the state of North Korea, you were way behind your age group, educationally
46:48
in South Korea.
46:50
So take us to the process of I guess getting caught up and actually making your way to
46:54
a university in South Korea because from where you started to where you ended up just even
46:58
in South Korea, it was a tremendous accomplishment for you.
47:01
Yeah, I remember I got to South Korea and Korea and Asia I was 17 years old which means
47:06
high school age and my actual academic level was like less than like elementary school
47:12
since level.
47:13
Like I did not know, of course the alphabet, I did not know the word, I did not know anything
47:19
about science, biology, physics, like not none of it.
47:23
So I had to take the GED to catch up.
47:28
So I remember I was like reading 100 books each year and studying this subject, I was
47:34
eventually landing the ER from my institution because I didn't have time to eat in South
47:40
Korea, I was, I don't know, I slept two hours a day, three hours a day maximum, just studying
47:46
and studying in the library, catching up what I missed to learn.
47:51
And at the end half, miraculously, I was able to go university.
47:57
And so you get to university, you obviously do well there.
48:00
But then at some point, I know we're skipping around again, guys, all the details are in
48:03
the books, they're in the show notes, you can pick them up for yourself, but you actually
48:06
found your way on a trip to America.
48:08
Yeah.
48:09
And again, this place where as a child, you were convinced there were a bunch of raping
48:13
reptiles that, you know, these horrible people with tails and scales, you get to America.
48:18
What was it like when you saw America for the first time?
48:21
I remember I was going to Tyler Texas to something called youth with a mission, YM, the DTS group.
48:30
And in Kyle, like there's transitory flight that I think from Houston, after when I got
48:36
to Houston, I was very, very afraid like what is going to do to me, right?
48:42
I'm like landing to my enemy's territory.
48:44
And then this is a guy in their hoodies, eating their chips, gigantic smile and face
48:52
and saying hello, how are you, man?
48:54
And like these people are just so, so happy and so friendly.
49:00
And I think that's when I realize lies do not have power.
49:05
And there's truth, we do not need to be afraid from these lies.
49:09
They cannot hold it.
49:10
They just don't have power.
49:11
And all that fear and brainwashing is went away that's like just looking at this man's
49:16
smile.
49:17
Like, yeah, this is a, this is a different country.
49:20
This is now what those men, you can tell me about.
49:24
And so you get to spend this time in America.
49:26
And of course you got a nice little sense of Southern hospitality, which is great.
49:30
You spent some time in New York City.
49:32
And then again, you know, I'm skipping over a lot of stuff here.
49:34
You go through a visa process and you end up becoming a resident of New York City.
49:39
And then eventually you, you became a citizen in the United States.
49:41
I believe that just happened last year or so.
49:43
Congratulations on that.
49:44
I literally wrote in the margin like, yeah, great job.
49:47
And I like highlight.
49:48
It was like, you're finally, you're finally here.
49:49
You're one of us for real officially, but you settle in New York City.
49:53
I used to live in New York City.
49:55
I hated living there.
49:56
It was, I just, I had nothing to do with the speed.
49:59
It had everything to do with the people, the people didn't have time to stop and care
50:03
about you and to care about what you were doing.
50:06
And you understood that there were some immediate differences that you had to get used to, not
50:12
just from what you were growing up, like in North Korea or even from South Korea or even
50:16
from Texas, but there's just this different style of how certain people talk in certain
50:20
places.
50:21
And so there's actually a quote I want to read from wild time remains here.
50:24
It was strange to notice that my new friends and colleagues living in conditions of over
50:28
abundance also seem to have their own versions of trauma for which many of them were receiving
50:33
help from a doctor licensed in therapy.
50:36
So you're talking to these New Yorkers that have grown up, never been hungry, never been
50:40
cold or any of these types of things and they're experiencing trauma on a daily basis.
50:46
And here you are a North Korean defector and you're just like, Hey, where's the nearest
50:51
steak restaurant?
50:52
Because I need some more of this steak.
50:54
Take me through that because it's funny, but it's also just maddening at the same time.
50:58
Yeah, I think when I came to America, like my friends would like go look up restaurants
51:04
on Yelp and then looking at the reviews.
51:07
And then they would go to this most hip restaurant and be in the line for a for a while to eat.
51:13
And until that point of the for me, the food was all about quantity, never about quality.
51:17
I couldn't understand why it's been the line to eat some food.
51:22
And then like of course, these people are so prosperous, they would they would pay money
51:27
to go to a gym to burn calories in North Korea.
51:31
We had to conserve our energy to survive.
51:34
We couldn't spare any calorie and this people's problem was having too much food.
51:40
And then in this abundance, and like you said, safety, of course, it's so safe here.
51:46
They were like 80% of the minimum were going to see their therapist and they're telling
51:51
me how fine being a therapist is is harder than finding a right husband for them.
51:57
Because finding the right there is so hard.
52:00
And then they were like to ask me, why don't you go see a therapist?
52:04
And I was like, what is therapist like, Oh, because you have trauma, you're going to
52:08
go unpack your like trauma and talk about where it's coming from.
52:14
And I just of course, it costs a lot of money.
52:16
And I for me was like, what is the point of me surviving all of that?
52:21
Now, because I'm going to just talk about that for the rest of my life, how hard it
52:25
was to survive it.
52:26
But I think this people for them was like, I think it's their threshold to take any difficulty
52:33
in life is so low that they cannot function without complaining to somebody once a week.
52:40
And but I think I'm supportive of that because I mean, if that's the way you feel comforted,
52:45
that's fine.
52:46
But it's pretty funny that, you know, no, it's not funny.
52:50
That's where I'm going to interrupting, like, no, it is, it is super duper not fine that
52:53
we get to this point.
52:55
It's fragility, right?
52:56
It's just this overwhelmed sense of fragility that words can hurt us.
53:00
If people ask you a question like, Hey, where are you from?
53:03
That that's a microaggression that they're othering you.
53:05
And it's just, it's just silly nonsense.
53:08
But I think we can all kind of get an idea of where these ideas come from, because here
53:13
you are, you're way behind educationally, you almost kill yourself, trying to just get
53:17
caught up, right, you know, whenever you're going to school in South Korea, you go to
53:20
university in South Korea, but then you apply to go to one of the most famous Ivy League
53:25
schools in the world, Columbia University there in New York City, you were accepted.
53:30
And then you, you know, you became a student.
53:32
So here you are, you're excited, you're just, you're super excited before your classes
53:37
start.
53:38
Just before we get into your freshman orientation, because I have some questions there, just
53:41
take me through the excitement of thinking to yourself, man, I've made it.
53:44
I got caught up and here I am going to an American Ivy League school.
53:48
I think like what Dr. Peterson wrote the forward in my new book, he says, you know, the things
53:55
that I was able to achieve and going to Columbia was not in, it was beyond dream.
54:00
It was not something I could imagine.
54:03
Of course, growing up in North Korea, I had no idea what Ivy League schools were.
54:06
I can't even know what university was.
54:09
So going to Columbia was not even the feeling of achieving your dream.
54:13
It was like beyond that, there's no way to describe that feeling of doing something
54:18
that's so amazing that I couldn't even express that to that.
54:24
So you know, I couldn't sleep, literally, I couldn't sleep.
54:27
I was up or night.
54:28
I was just so excited and didn't even sleep because I was really excited and full joy.
54:34
And for me at the time, freedom meant learning, you know, I was always intellectually curious.
54:40
So I'm going to go to a place with the greatest mind, the greatest place where I'm going to
54:44
openly obey, openly learn ideas and find the truth and really learn how to think the liberal
54:51
arts education that what they're promising to do.
54:53
And that's what I was expecting when I was going to the campus that morning.
54:58
So you're excited, you're optimistic and everything seems like it's trending in the right direction
55:03
because you're ready.
55:04
You're prepared to do this.
55:06
But all that seemed to disappear immediately during your freshman orientation.
55:11
And it seemed like it disappeared immediately whenever somebody brought up Jane Austen.
55:16
And so take us through the Jane Austen story.
55:19
So in this a freshman orientation that we are all obligated to go is that we have to attend
55:26
this orientation before we start actual classes.
55:30
One of the instructors was telling us the importance of staying woke and it was really
55:35
before the first time I heard the word woke.
55:37
You know, I was like, I'm awake, like, how am I going to walk, right?
55:41
I was just so confused, like, yeah, I'm awake, that's what I'm here.
55:45
But then she was like, you know, not like giving us the example of being woke.
55:48
So she was like, okay, I'm going to give you guys the example who likes to read Jane Austen.
55:53
And I was my hands, I love reading and in North Korea, they said, we don't have love.
55:59
And there's a lady in the 18th century, like, talking about human emotions, like complexity
56:03
of being a human.
56:04
I was like, it's so touched.
56:06
And then she was saying, you know, by reading Jane Austen, you made to believe that somehow
56:13
only white men are capable of logical thinking.
56:16
And because she was living in the era of white colonialism, she arrived perpetuating
56:21
that white supremacy and systemic racism.
56:25
And that's how I am taking a part in this horrible, horrible, you know, oppression.
56:31
That's the example of staying being woke, to understand where all this, this oppression
56:37
is hiding, you know, beneath all of these things that we are seeing.
56:41
And I think I was like, I thought she was joking literally, I was like, just got to be a joke.
56:46
Right?
56:47
Reading one of the classical work of our achievement as a civilization.
56:51
Yeah.
56:52
This is a sign of oppression, I mean, you got to be a joke.
56:55
And then it just continues from there.
56:58
They were making us to go to this, a consent orientation where we all had to go.
57:02
And I initially, I was appreciated, like, I was after a rape victim and teaching everybody
57:07
to understand the consent between people before they have sex is important.
57:13
They were like, showing us, like, cartoons and videos and talk speech.
57:17
And then eventually what stopped me was like, okay, there's examples, right, two students,
57:23
like men and female and male go out in a bar and drink.
57:27
At the end of the night, both of them get drunk and then decide to have sex.
57:32
The next morning, women mixed up and she says, I gave a consent under influence.
57:39
I reread the sex.
57:41
That means that's a rape.
57:44
Even though men and women equally drank, drank their night.
57:48
But if the women change their mind the next morning, it's a rape.
57:53
So that's what I'm saying.
57:54
This is an insult to real, actual rape victims.
57:57
This is not a rape.
57:58
This is not how rape happens in real life, right?
58:01
They are bending the truth.
58:03
This is not what actual rape means.
58:07
And then the professors would write two emails to us.
58:11
Today's writing and reading is going to cover these topics if you trigger during any way.
58:18
Don't do the readings and don't even come through class.
58:21
And don't even need to tell me what triggers you.
58:25
So I was like, then why are you here?
58:27
If you can't handle reading some books, you should not be in the university.
58:32
And then professors said, if it's too much to handle, this oppression is too much for
58:38
them, right, then you need to bring your comfort to animals.
58:43
And at the time I was actually a new mom, I had a child, I was nursing, I had a pump
58:47
every two to three hours.
58:49
So I was asking my professor, can I bring my child?
58:52
And my nanny can be outside and if his naps can he stay next to me?
58:56
She's like, no, babies are not allowed in the classroom.
58:58
If they're just sleeping in, baby was like nursing by mother.
59:03
And then there was letting these puppies to come looking around us because they are comfort
59:08
animals.
59:09
And I think that's when I realized this country is getting destroyed, like this is a unwindness
59:16
in the fall of civilization.
59:18
Well, and these are supposed to be the betters, right?
59:22
These are the people that are in the Ivy League.
59:25
These are the smartest people that we have to give in our country.
59:27
And I thought it was very appropriate at the, it will not appropriate at all, but appropriate
59:31
to this person.
59:32
At the end of that freshman orientation, that whole Jane Austen thing, the person ended
59:36
her talk with, this is how we look for a hidden systemic racism and oppression.
59:40
And so here you are telling an 18, 19 year old incoming freshman to a college that no matter
59:45
what we study, whether it's chemistry or biology or, you know, some social history or mathematics,
59:54
no matter what you're studying, there's something hidden.
59:56
And it kind of reminded me of your classrooms in North Korea growing up where there's always
1:00:01
this hidden thing behind, you know, and this may be someone that, you know, said something
1:00:05
not so nice about the Kim's and now it's like, well, there's got to be racism or oppression.
1:00:09
That's like holding people back.
1:00:11
But there was also this constant fear that all of you were living in of being branded
1:00:15
as six herb.
1:00:17
So that is so six herb stands for sexist, intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist,
1:00:24
bigot.
1:00:25
And now a guy like me, you could call me all those things.
1:00:27
I will giggle and continue on with my life.
1:00:29
I really don't care if you say those things about me because I know who I am.
1:00:32
God knows who I am.
1:00:33
You have no idea, but you are in constant fear of being labeled one of those things.
1:00:39
And so it was almost like this freedom that you were supposed to be feeling in America.
1:00:44
You couldn't feel it in an American classroom because what if you express the wrong opinion?
1:00:49
What if you express opinion that went kind of outside of the normal parameters of these
1:00:53
people?
1:00:54
So talk to me a little bit about that because that just had to be crazy for someone like
1:00:57
you to feel like you're free, and then all of a sudden you feel like you're being gagged
1:01:00
in your own classrooms.
1:01:02
Yeah, I think it's paranoia that in North Korea, first thing my mother told me was don't even
1:01:08
whisper because the birds in mice could hear me.
1:01:11
She said, the most interesting I had in my body was my tongue.
1:01:15
If I say the one wrong day, that was going to kill me and along with three generations
1:01:19
of my family.
1:01:21
And now a Colombia class, obviously, you don't get executed.
1:01:25
But the consequence is real.
1:01:27
If you make look or gesture or anything that you made somebody unsafe, not physically punching
1:01:35
them, but emotionally unsafe because you need to have a safe space at Colombia, then you
1:01:41
can actually get kicked out of the university.
1:01:43
But not only that, because like you said at Colombia, everybody is going to investment
1:01:48
banking, the big tech, governments, and going to do business consulting companies.
1:01:54
Not that many things they can pay your tuition back after graduating, and a lot of them go
1:01:59
to UN as well.
1:02:01
And then you are going to work with your colleagues eventually, and they are like alonizing the
1:02:06
company.
1:02:07
So you cannot be marked as this one of six hertz, right?
1:02:10
If you do that, that is like almost being marked as a racist and that your library is
1:02:17
going away.
1:02:18
Your dignity just goes away, your reputation gets destroyed.
1:02:22
So everybody has to watch out.
1:02:25
If you see something, say something.
1:02:26
That's what American classroom says.
1:02:29
If you see something, say something.
1:02:31
It's like my teachers at North Korea mandatory us to report our classmates, criticize an
1:02:38
opening in what they do, and sit in the distrust between students.
1:02:45
That's why in North Korea, we don't have friends, we only have comrades.
1:02:49
It's a very different being commerce and friends in America.
1:02:54
Now they say, keep asking us if you see something, say something, and that paranoia just comes
1:02:59
back.
1:03:00
So it's the paranoia, but it's also that brainwashing that you were talking about to where
1:03:04
it's like, if you don't just parrot these things and say them the exact way and the
1:03:08
exact cadence that we want, you're going to be branded as one of these things.
1:03:11
And that was one of the most telling things and most heartbreaking things in your interview
1:03:15
that you did with Jordan Peterson, it actually brought him to tears when you said you felt
1:03:18
like you're time at Columbia, not your time at, you know, butthole state, you know, community
1:03:23
college, but like Columbia was a waste of your time.
1:03:27
And he was just appalled because this is, this is an academic, this is an academic mission.
1:03:31
This is a guy that has dedicated his life to education and to a college university campus.
1:03:36
And he's just so appalled at where it is now.
1:03:39
But the thing about what you did is you took your education and then you almost accidentally
1:03:45
moved into advocacy, but not like what some of your classmates were doing, but it was
1:03:50
almost like you were forced into this year on me because you were invited to give a speech
1:03:53
in Ireland.
1:03:55
And this speech went viral and it kind of sent your life on a different path that then maybe
1:04:00
what you were expecting.
1:04:01
So take us through that, that event in this speech and why you think it had such an impact.
1:04:06
So I was invited to speak at this one year world conference in Ireland doubling.
1:04:12
And I was for the first time in the big stage I shared my story and what was happening to
1:04:18
North Korean people and the North Korean modern day slaves in China.
1:04:22
And I think that they were just, there's more than 2,000 people from all around the world
1:04:28
were standing there and crying with me.
1:04:31
And I think that they was for the first time my faith in humanity that was stored.
1:04:36
I lost my faith in humanity when I was in China.
1:04:39
These humans were the worst things I've ever seen in my life.
1:04:43
And then I was realizing if I let the world know what's happening, I might be able to
1:04:48
stop this modern day Holocaust.
1:04:50
You know, it's not what I'm saying, the UN said the only thing that we can find in the
1:04:56
human history, what's happening to North Korean people, the powers are not the Germany's Holocaust
1:05:02
and Stalin's World Cup.
1:05:04
So Holocaust is repeating our game and we are silencing again.
1:05:08
So I was thinking I can change it.
1:05:10
I think that's for the first time I realized that I can make people to aware what's happening.
1:05:17
So from there on, I was writing my first book, I came to New York to resume my education.
1:05:23
And one step by step, and now here I am, I'm a conservative writing Nazi.
1:05:32
That's right.
1:05:33
Join the club.
1:05:34
We're happy to have you.
1:05:35
You're an American Nazi.
1:05:36
Good for you.
1:05:37
The thing was, is you were being invited to speak at a lot of places.
1:05:40
But again, growing up in North Korea, there were certain people that their names weren't
1:05:44
recognizable.
1:05:45
Certainly their companies weren't recognizable.
1:05:47
And you were invited to come speak to a guy's group and his name was Jeff Bezos.
1:05:53
And he was, you know, this guy who ran a company called Amazon and you basically said,
1:05:57
Nah, I'm busy.
1:05:58
I can't do that.
1:05:59
But then he asked you again to come and speak at something called campfire.
1:06:02
And this time, by this time, you know who Jeff Bezos is, you know what Amazon is, obviously
1:06:07
you'd been in America for a while, and you accepted his invitation to go and speak at
1:06:11
campfire.
1:06:12
Now, I was not aware of what campfire was.
1:06:13
Can you, can you take us with that, what, what that was and then kind of like what it
1:06:17
was like once you got there?
1:06:18
Yeah.
1:06:19
So I think like this is a thing when I came to America, I had no chance.
1:06:23
I had no idea what's the difference between Democrat or conservative, you know, or liberal
1:06:27
or the left.
1:06:28
I have no idea what's even the stereotypes of gender, like genders or even race.
1:06:34
Like in North Korea, I did not know there's a different race existed.
1:06:38
I come here to pure blank space.
1:06:41
And then like I said, I was invited to go to attend the say of the record, the gathering
1:06:47
that Jeff Bezos holds it each year.
1:06:50
And that he usually, I heard the whole this event in New Mexico where he grew up.
1:06:55
But in that year, that result was going through innovation.
1:06:58
So he was holding in Santa Barbara, California.
1:07:01
So she would send a private jet to New York, the private airport to bring his guests.
1:07:08
And I think approximately, I might be wrong, around 150 people to go.
1:07:13
So the attendees are like billionaires and most famous Hollywood stars and writers and
1:07:20
one of the person that I had to fly together was Harvey Weinstein.
1:07:25
So I had no idea who Harvey Weinstein was either, like I just didn't know.
1:07:30
I got there playing, I was waiting and somebody was running late.
1:07:34
So we had to wait for this guy.
1:07:35
And then he gets in and he comes shake everybody's hands and like, shook my hand, hey, I'm Harvey.
1:07:42
And then okay, cool.
1:07:44
So we got to Santa Barbara, and of course there's Tom Hanks, we sweet respond.
1:07:50
I mean, what was the guy who was in Mad Men, John, somebody?
1:07:55
Yeah, I know you're talking about, I can't think of his name.
1:07:57
Yeah, like literally, yeah, John, I'm like, anybody you've been seeing on the main TV
1:08:03
screen is like there, right?
1:08:05
And the people who, like this billion, you're like clothing companies and tech companies
1:08:10
are there.
1:08:12
And then he's a several days of treat where we hear stories on the, like fireside chat
1:08:18
almost like that.
1:08:20
And then the first day, Harvey would give a speech, how he comes from Flushing, Queens
1:08:24
come from nothing.
1:08:26
He really, he's great, he became successful, now he's helping a lot of marginalized children
1:08:33
and giving money to a democratic party.
1:08:36
And then, you know, how he was getting money from Saudis to have this cause.
1:08:40
And like, and in this speech, like everybody stood up, giving him a standing ovation and
1:08:45
calling the man, I mean, the legend, and he was like, everybody was on the minor knee.
1:08:51
And of course, like a few months later, the me too goes off.
1:08:55
Yeah.
1:08:56
And like, so yeah.
1:08:59
So you're there and eventually you get to give your speech, everybody gets to give their
1:09:02
speeches and your speech is obviously a little bit different.
1:09:05
And so you give your speech and it leaves people in tears.
1:09:09
People are like leaning forward.
1:09:10
They're like, oh, how can we help?
1:09:12
And I think at one point, you even said Jeff Bezos was in tears and just like, it's just
1:09:15
kind of this crazy situation.
1:09:17
But that was kind of the first experience where you were around very, very important
1:09:21
people.
1:09:22
You told them your story, they sounded like they gave a crap, but then when it came to
1:09:26
actually doing something about it, they wouldn't really do that.
1:09:30
And you went to other events and other speaking engagements and it was all very similar.
1:09:34
You would be with politicians or these famous people and the, oh my gosh, that's so hard.
1:09:38
That's so crazy.
1:09:39
And then you would move to the point where it's like, okay, here's what we can do about
1:09:41
it.
1:09:42
And then they would disappear.
1:09:43
Then I actually read a quote from your new book, which kind of gets into this over the
1:09:46
course of the following years, I delivered speeches at Google, Facebook, the United Nations,
1:09:50
the US Department of State and the TED conference describing what I knew to be happening under
1:09:54
the Chinese Communist Party and the North Korean regime.
1:09:57
It was the same consequence of events everywhere I went.
1:10:00
Lots of tears, lots of embracing and handshaking, lots of solicitous empathy to offers to help
1:10:07
are followed by lots of silence.
1:10:09
Now, the reason for this that we can surmise is it almost all came back to a singular reason.
1:10:15
And that's China.
1:10:17
And people don't really understand the connection between the regimes of North Korea and China.
1:10:22
Everyone understands the importance of China to the world because of the amount of stuff
1:10:26
that we buy from them, the amount of things that they export directly to us, the things
1:10:31
that we've offshored to them to make for us.
1:10:33
Certainly China has a lot of countries around the world by the balls, as it were, when it
1:10:38
comes to the things that they're able to produce.
1:10:41
But talk to me a little bit more about that to where it's like you're trying to be an
1:10:45
advocate.
1:10:46
You're trying to make change for the people that are still stuck in North Korea, people
1:10:49
that you know personally and love.
1:10:52
And then you have all these people in the world that can do something about it.
1:10:55
But then they just refuse to because they're scared of daddy China.
1:10:58
Yeah, I think this is one of the chapters in the book I wrote, he talked with the elites
1:11:03
that, initially, I believe these people, you know, Hillary Clinton was all about women
1:11:09
empowerment, you know, standing up for girls in the world.
1:11:13
And I was meeting next Pelosi and anybody can imagine who were the movers and shakers
1:11:18
in the world.
1:11:19
And they were openly has been talking about, they've been denouncing slavery in America.
1:11:24
They've been saying that silence is violence, you need to stand up for justice.
1:11:29
And I was thinking, okay, these people are saying all this wonderful stuff.
1:11:33
Now is I just need to tell them what is the actual injustice happening.
1:11:38
So I would go tell them about this, these things like there are 300,000 North Korean
1:11:43
girls in China.
1:11:44
There are organs that have this out of them, they are being sold like livestock.
1:11:48
The children of these women are more than a million of them.
1:11:51
They are also becoming, they are in slaves.
1:11:54
So there are governments sponsored the modern-day slavery happening in China.
1:12:00
And the North Korean regime had 25 million slave North Korean people because they are
1:12:05
also sponsored by CCP.
1:12:07
And we need to hold the China accountable.
1:12:10
So I've been asking him to do something.
1:12:12
And then they said, I'm sorry what you went through, but please don't say how I know
1:12:16
you, that you know me in public.
1:12:19
Because they need to make money out of CCP, their business ties with the CCP are so big.
1:12:25
So these people, they only stand up for gay rights when they get applause.
1:12:30
Right?
1:12:31
They only stand up for minority rights when it's good for them.
1:12:34
When there's actual consequences of standing for truth and justice, they don't do that.
1:12:39
It is a lip service to disloggance, like blood lives matter all day long.
1:12:44
And slavery was wrong, the America was horrible, we need to abolish slavery, and that thing
1:12:51
ended.
1:12:52
But there's a lot of slavery is continuing to happen the modern day, they do not want
1:12:56
to denounce that.
1:12:57
This is the only convenience they pretend to fight for justice.
1:13:02
And in reality, they are helping these dictators, they're helping these criminals, and in which
1:13:07
just themselves and completely corrupt people are in American mainstream, in Hollywood,
1:13:13
in media, in education.
1:13:15
And I think American public, I did not know that either.
1:13:19
Like I somehow thought these people were virtuous, because that's been all they're doing, they've
1:13:22
been purchasing all their life.
1:13:25
And I think finally I woke up to understood, American ruling class are so corrupt.
1:13:31
And they're lying to American people.
1:13:33
Absolutely.
1:13:34
I couldn't have said it better myself.
1:13:36
As you were describing that, somebody that came to mind was LeBron James.
1:13:38
This is a guy that hops on every single racial story in America.
1:13:42
He gets out over his skis.
1:13:44
And he's a, he's a billionaire, right?
1:13:45
This is one of the most successful black men in the history of humanity.
1:13:49
But he doesn't have anything to say about the, the gravity, what's happening in China.
1:13:52
Why?
1:13:53
Because a bunch of children putting together his shoes for him so that he can sell them
1:13:56
and make money through Nike.
1:13:58
And he's just one of the many, many examples of people, even the ones that you laid out
1:14:02
in your book.
1:14:03
And that's kind of an interesting thing.
1:14:05
You know, we talk about these, these racist incidences that happen in America, you know,
1:14:09
where these unarmed black men are being apparently hunted down by these roves of white supremacist
1:14:14
cops, even though every single year we're talking about maybe 15 or so unarmed black men are
1:14:19
shot by police.
1:14:20
And a lot of those men were unarmed, but they were just armed right before they were shot,
1:14:26
or they were trying to run over the cop with their car before they got out and ran and
1:14:29
were shot or something like that.
1:14:31
So again, it's the narrative versus the reality.
1:14:34
And there's the, you know, whatever people think, and then there's truth.
1:14:37
But then there's something that happened to you when you were walking through Chicago
1:14:41
one day with your baby in broad daylight, and this was kind of like a center point of
1:14:46
the new book, while time remains, and it kind of led you to even write the book, because
1:14:51
this thing had a massive impact on you.
1:14:53
So take us through that story and take us through what happened.
1:14:56
So yeah, well, after I graduated from Columbia that year, I couldn't even go to graduation
1:15:01
because of the pandemic, they would lock down the cities, close all the small businesses
1:15:06
and restaurants, and we couldn't go anywhere.
1:15:09
So it was August during the loutings of BLM, at Georgia Floyd summer.
1:15:14
When the grocery stores get looted, they couldn't go buy the nicks for my son.
1:15:19
The house, how children's house better get looted.
1:15:23
Literally, they would burn down the prescription piers so people could not get their prescription
1:15:29
piers.
1:15:30
This is a completely evil activist people committee.
1:15:32
And the main media means to me, they say, there's really not enough much virus.
1:15:36
They're completely lying to people.
1:15:38
And I'm leaving the heart of downtown, and these people are saying they're going to destroy
1:15:42
Trump Tower.
1:15:43
And I'm really like living next to that.
1:15:46
And the government's still not denouncing them as a domestic terrorist.
1:15:50
Like literally, there are people going to destroy a building, and entire bridge goes
1:15:54
up.
1:15:55
There's checkpoints.
1:15:56
That's not the domestic terrorism.
1:15:58
And that day, I was going to go out to get some fresh air with my son and with my nanny,
1:16:03
and I was pushed in the broad daylight.
1:16:06
I was pushed to the wall, and these girls would come.
1:16:10
They were black women punching me and take my wallet out of me.
1:16:15
So I was using my phone to try to record and try to call the police on these girls.
1:16:20
But then that's when I couldn't believe it.
1:16:22
The people on the street would see me being robbed and getting punched.
1:16:26
And your mother would be the two years of the baby next to her.
1:16:29
They would circle around me and screaming at me that I'm a racist.
1:16:34
That person's skin color does not make them a thief.
1:16:37
You're a racist.
1:16:38
You're crazy.
1:16:39
Why are you doing this?
1:16:40
You're looking into my eyes.
1:16:41
Why are you doing it?
1:16:42
Because I was trying to call the police on these girls.
1:16:45
These thieves, the criminals.
1:16:48
And I said, remember, in this people's eyes, there's a rage, like, to looking at me.
1:16:53
Why are you doing this?
1:16:54
I'm like, it's a common sense if you get robbed and punched, you'll eventually record the
1:16:59
police.
1:17:00
But I didn't deserve justice because my skin color was not black.
1:17:05
American at a point, they decided who deserved justice and compassion helped based on their
1:17:10
skin color.
1:17:12
Like North Korea, if your blood painted the landowner child, you don't deserve food.
1:17:17
You need to die, get tortured, and be a slave.
1:17:20
And like that.
1:17:21
And that's when I understood it was just not a college that was crazy.
1:17:26
This ideology, this horrible evil ideology that made North Korea's, came outside the
1:17:31
campuses and now is on the street.
1:17:34
They lost their common sense.
1:17:37
They become mad and they would refuse to help me.
1:17:40
And they were blocking me to call the police.
1:17:45
It doesn't even, I feel like you're on me, if you had tried to write that, like you're
1:17:49
writing a novel and you had tried to think of what is the dumbest possible situation
1:17:54
that somebody could go through, I don't even know that you would have came up with a situation
1:17:58
like that.
1:17:59
No.
1:18:00
But as I'm reading it, it's like, yep, I can totally see that happening in a major American
1:18:04
city like Chicago.
1:18:05
And so it's like, you experience everything that you've experienced in your life on me,
1:18:10
everything that we've talked about and everything that's in your books.
1:18:12
Again, guys, go and buy wild time remains out now and also your original memoir in order
1:18:17
to live.
1:18:18
But there's one quote that, and we'll make this the last question of the day because
1:18:21
there's a quote from your new book that, frankly, I don't, I don't understand it.
1:18:25
I don't understand how you could write this, but I'll go and read it here.
1:18:29
It is not just the basic provisions of everyday life, nutritious food, clean water, light
1:18:34
heat, a bed to sleep in that I now regard as minor miracles.
1:18:37
I feel a deep appreciation and awe for human freedom as a whole, the right to exist, the
1:18:43
ability to think, to love, to walk or sit without looking over my shoulder, to take
1:18:47
two consecutive breaths uninterrupted by fear.
1:18:50
I feel that I have an unusual capacity for gratitude now.
1:18:54
And I owe it to the 16 year nightmare that was my previous life.
1:18:58
In the most twisted way imaginable, I actually, I actually regard that time as a blessing.
1:19:04
So you look at the first 16 years of your life, literal hell on earth, where you were thinking
1:19:11
about dying being better than living, right?
1:19:14
You know, you mentioned it earlier in the show, the show, like, you know, up to five minutes
1:19:17
maximum, it would take you to die, but it would keep you from having to live for the
1:19:21
rest of your life.
1:19:22
Whereas most of the people on the planet are like, what can I do to live as long as possible?
1:19:27
You've experienced everything, brainwashing, rape, the things you've experienced here
1:19:32
in this country.
1:19:34
And you say that you regard that time as a blessing.
1:19:37
And every time I hear you talk on me, you're super positive and you're super hopeful and
1:19:43
optimistic about what the rest of your life is going to be like for you.
1:19:47
And now not just for you, but for you and your son.
1:19:50
Explain that to me.
1:19:51
Again, the eternal pessimist that you're talking to right now, yeah, right now on me,
1:19:55
it doesn't make sense to me how you can have that life and have this mindset.
1:20:00
Explain it.
1:20:01
Hey, there's this, right, it's without darkness, I guess we cannot see the light, like fishing
1:20:07
the water.
1:20:08
Don't notice the water.
1:20:10
People who are born with two arms will never be able to imagine life without one arm.
1:20:15
I think for Americans who are born in freedom, for them, it's just natural thing like fishing
1:20:20
the water.
1:20:21
They just take it for granted and natural in some sense.
1:20:24
But for me, I was born in that darkness, I come here, it's not a natural thing for me.
1:20:29
For me, it's a very unnatural to be free and life can be this unbelievably good.
1:20:36
I think because of that, I don't have to spend a penny on therapy.
1:20:42
And also, I now understand how amazing, how resilient humans are.
1:20:49
In America, we're tiny little discomfort they give you medicine.
1:20:52
Like when I was pregnant with my son, my doctor and every appointment she was asking me, do
1:20:58
you get like a big depression, postpartum, depression is a very common thing for women
1:21:03
or do you need medicine for that?
1:21:06
Like, everything is over medicated in America, like somehow you cannot feel anything little
1:21:11
discomfort.
1:21:12
That's not okay somehow in this culture.
1:21:15
And that eliminates your ability to overcome challenges in life, to become strong and finding
1:21:21
a big percents of who you are.
1:21:24
I think because of my nurse Korean experience in some sense, like, you know, everything
1:21:29
in life in America is a piece of cake.
1:21:31
I don't need a pierce, I don't need a therapy, and I don't need to live in a mansion, like
1:21:37
I'm just grateful for probably everything.
1:21:41
And I'm just grateful that I have a health, I'm free, like I have muscle over my head.
1:21:47
And I think in some sense that, that's why I think I'm so grateful that I was not born
1:21:53
here.
1:21:54
Because if I've born here, I might be one of those kids on their juicy talks, on their
1:21:58
expensive or pants, on their laptop, I'm going to talk about social justice and complaining
1:22:04
how horrible capitalist means.
1:22:08
It's just incredible to hear you say that.
1:22:09
I mean, at Undaunted Life, we equipped men to push back darkness with content that forges
1:22:14
spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:22:17
And so I go around preaching the good news of resilience to people all over the place.
1:22:21
And we have listeners all over the world.
1:22:23
But I have never spoken with somebody who embodied resilience more than you.
1:22:27
So I just wanted to tell you to bravo to everything that you've done, that you've come through
1:22:31
and also the work that you're doing now.
1:22:33
I really appreciate all the time that you spent with us today.
1:22:36
But that's all for me.
1:22:37
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:22:38
No, Fabio.
1:22:39
Thank you so much for having me on.
1:22:42
Me Park, thank you for coming on Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22:45
Thank you.
1:22:46
There you go, guys.
1:22:47
Hope you enjoyed my time with Yomi Park.
1:22:49
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life.
1:22:52
Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual,
1:22:56
mental and physical resilience.
1:22:57
So the links I've got for you today, I've got a link to Yomi's website and they've got
1:23:00
a link to where you can pick up her new book, While Time Remains, a North Korean defector's
1:23:03
search for freedom in America and also her memoir in order to live a North Korean girls
1:23:08
journey to freedom.
1:23:10
Thank you guys for listening to this episode, wherever you're listening to this, please
1:23:12
subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.
1:23:15
If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email
1:23:18
to info@undaunted.life.
1:23:20
That's i-n-f-o @undaunted.life.
1:23:23
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:23:26
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:23:29
Just go to www.undaunted.life and as always, we want to thank the band, August Burns Red
1:23:33
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:23:36
The music on this podcast is our song, Cutting the Tides, which is off their 10th anniversary
1:23:39
re-recording of their album Leveler.
1:23:41
The links are in the description.
1:23:43
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:23:49
mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
1:24:09
Your baby resides!