So, I've talked to men literally all across the globe about where they're missing the mark and how they want to improve. They normally talk about how they wish they were in better shape. They wish they had a better relationship with their loved ones. They wish they had more success and influence at work and some other stuff like that. But here are some of the most common and biggest things that I hear. I wish I knew more about the Bible. I wish I could lead my family spiritually. I wish I could recall more scripture. I wish Bible study wasn't such a struggle. Well, guys, I've got news for you. You don't have to keep wishing. It's time for you to start doing. It's time for you to stop wasting your time and money on stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever. I keep hearing you talk about how you want to be more biblically literate and spiritually resilient. And now is your chance to prove that you mean it. That's why I want you to take advantage of our partnership with the most powerful Bible software on planet Earth, Logos. So, Logos approached me about putting something together for the Undaunted Lifers out there, and we collaborated to create something I'm super pumped about, the Undaunted Life Study Bundle. So, here's the skinny on the bundle. There are over 200 individual resources and they include titles from authors like Vodie Bacham, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, Dietrich Bonhaofer, William Lane, Craig, Paul Washer, John Sto, Doug Wilson, Paul David Trip, Jipacker, and a whole bunch more. And there are so many helpful resources in there. Bibles, commentaries, Old and New Testament study guides, devotionals, systematic theologies courses dictionaries histories encyclopedias non-fiction books, and more and more and more. And here's the most insane part about this deal. If you were to buy each individual resource by yourself inside of Logos, it would cost you over $3,000. $3,000. But if you get the Undaunted Life Study bundle, you'll get all 200 plus resources for just $349.99, guys. That's $3,000 worth of stuff for $350 bucks, guys. That's almost 90% off. And you know that you waste more than that on the hobbies that you have right now all the time. And these won't help you with your disciplehip and sanctification journeys, right? It's time to get real and take control of your Bible study and spiritual development. Click the link in the show notes for this episode. If you want the link, it's logos.com/undauntedlife. That's www.llogs.com/undauntedlife or the link in the show notes. It's super easy to sign up. Again, go to the show notes and click the link or go to logos.comlife. Sign up for Logos and get the Undaunted Life study bundle right now. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's the horn. That's Howard. That's Russ. Now guys, right from the beginning here. Uh there was something pretty incredible said at church this morning by one Dr. Mark Hitchcock. Uh and you already know where this is going. Uh I would like to go to the exact quote though. So this would have been his sermon from July the 12th. And this was a one-off sermon, okay? Because we normally do like just, you know, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, phrase by phrase through books of the Bible. We just wrapped Ephesians. And this uh starting next month or by the time you guys are listening to this, we'll be in 1 Thessalonians. But out of nowhere, right, he just decides in a uh you know message about Hebrews 12:es 1 and 2. He said the Bible is a dose of scriptural smelling salts. Everyone already knows where this is going, but guys, normally I do it to kind of give us a little bit of a like post dinner like booster, whatever. But in honor of Dr. Mark Hitchcock uh of Faith Bible Church in Dallas Theological Seminary. We are going to be taking some SNIFFS OF [screaming] >> THAT IS WHAT IT'S CALLED. >> Was not happy that I did that service >> when he said smelling salt. >> YOU SAID [screaming] NO YOU DID NOT. >> Oh my goodness. >> If you would have followed it up with a men, it would have been okay. [laughter] >> We don't get slayed in the spirit like that. >> I did text you and said don't even think about it, Kyle. And but I got my text in. I I know. I got my text in before you did. So, here we are. Hey, you're the only one that gets exemption from it because of your lack of uh nasal hair type of thing. So, all right. Here we go. Let's see how potent it is cuz this bag's been open for a while. >> I was going to say it was pretty bad the last time. >> Dude, that was way too close. >> That's what happens when you're not sure. >> Do it. >> STOP GETTING IT THAT CLOSE. >> SORRY. [laughter] >> HERE. SO, can we break this down further as the word is smelling salts? So, I mean like I I feel like we could really go down that that whole deal like what's happening to you RIGHT NOW. >> OH, MAN. >> IS A VERSION [laughter] OF what happens when it's still really really strong. >> It's cutting. It's strong. >> And just for anyone out there, this is not a drug. This is like uh I It says what it is on there, but it's like it's literally salt and >> Oh. Oh, it's going to bite him. There it goes. It bit him. Uh, >> I was like, it's not getting me. And then >> he's getting me in the eyes. >> Oh, he's going fresh. Fresh shake here. Let's go. >> You're going to do it. I do like to get the pool. >> THAT WAS TOO CLOSE. WAY TOO CLOSE. [laughter] WAY TOO CLOSE. Way too close. >> That was way too close. I knew exact. >> No, you have to redo it. Since you did the first one wrong, [laughter] you have to redo it. No. Oh, okay. You just doing the one. >> That one went >> brain stem. >> Yeah, >> that got your brain stem >> right nostril heavy. like only my right eye. You got to eat it out. You got to eat it now. Okay. All right. I can take that. Just don't spill it. So, I have no nose. That was the worst I've ever >> And I did it that way before and like I almost passed out. It was >> It was stuck. He was stuck in that chair too. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Uh so, Mark Hitchcock, uh hey, you think whenever he comes and does the fortune table later this year that we should bring this quote back up and see if he wants to >> Absolutely. >> I don't know if you're uh >> Dr. Dr. sniffy spelling. >> I mean, you should sprinkle a little on the Bible. >> Oh, no. It It will probably eat through the table if we get it on the Bible and then like it'll probably eat its way all the way through. >> Well, get a message Bible if you're going to do it. >> Speaking of Bibles. Uh, so uh, [laughter] you know, I've talked about these a lot on the Facebook binding. So, I forgot because I had all the inner circle guys. Yeah, there's Ryan's. I had all the inner circle guys. We like would sign uh the inside of the Bibles. And so, but this is my second one that I keep in the studio. So, you have all of our signatures in there. So, Ryan, I need you all to sign this. >> I got to sign that one. >> Uh, yeah, you got to sign this one. And if you have a favorite Bible verse, you can put it in there. I put Psalm 34:10. Uh, the young lions suffer want and hunger, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing. >> So, there's horn. What are we putting down? Romans, appropriately enough. Romans 12. The entirety of Romans 12. If I can get some signatures on there collecting all the forging tablelers, >> starting with the one that Joby loved. >> That's you. >> Don't ever forget it. >> How's everyone [snorts] doing? Mine's still in there. I feel like I sucked an actual piece of the salt like into my Stop it. I, you know, riding into the nose. Howard, where are we going? Uh, versewise, >> Hebrews 12 1-2. Hey, I was like, shout out Mark Hitchco again. All right. Okay. >> I'm always curious what people write down. Ryan will change it based on the person, based on what he It's like that's Ryan's way of like needling them, like putting smelling salts into a wound. >> I gave Grassmmer uh what was it? I think it was First Timothy chapter 3. Do not permit a woman to teach. >> Oh, well, yeah, it it works. [laughter] Uh it works in a lot of different ways. >> Put that in his Bible. >> All right. What'd you go with? >> Psalms 517. >> Can you quote it? >> Yeah. Yeah. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. Oh God, you won't will not despise. >> Very good. Uh and do we have all the signatures in y'alls? >> Yeah. Did we sign? >> We have we have all the ones in horns. >> Yeah, actually they need to sign mine. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Y'all haven't signed. [snorts] >> All right. Sign the horns. >> All right. >> Get in there. >> Go for it. >> I got a fresh Sharpie. Is there anything be There's a lot of things better, but there are >> I like the fresh blue Sharpie. Oh, that >> I really like it. >> I was thinking more like the blue God saw when he created the oceans, not necessarily the blue team when he created the Cubs. >> So, once a century is when that team >> Red is the color of hell. Was that the Cardinals? >> Come on with that. [laughter] >> I'll be over here counting my championships over here cuz they are mine because I am one that actually like competed for the Cardinals. >> You were the best first baseman. >> I did drive past both of your stadiums this last week. >> Hey, shout out. Which one's the nicest? [sighs] >> Just saying. >> Nicest as in like newer or nicest. >> Nicest in like if I had to go to a game, which game would I'd rather not dump with like vines and crap growing on the >> You talking about the one off the side of the highway. >> Neither of my boys have ever been to a major league game yet, but to go if I wanted to take him if I only had one game to take him to, I would take them to Wriggley just for the history. >> I would do the same thing. I would do the exact same thing like because Bush is is awesome but that's not like a it's not a 100 plus year old place now that just like Fenway they're both dumps but at the end of the day it's like you know you know I get it like if you're trying to teach them about like Americana and all that but before we move do y'all have do y'all let me sign yours? >> No no no wait no the >> Oh y'all don't have >> you forgot that part. >> Yeah. >> I was wondering what who we're signing those for. >> Well got a couple things made. Okay. >> So, uh I so value what you two bring to the forging table and you know we added you to the group text this week which should have been enough. That should have been enough of a thank you. Um but these these Bibles are so special because yes, you know, getting them made by a third generation Bible book binder, Ace Book binding in Oklahoma City is awesome. >> But I put, you know, the gospel symbols from Phil Robertson on the spine of each of these And you know, it's the down arrow. God sent his son to this earth. It's the cross where his son died. Then there's the empty tomb. Then there's the up arrow for him ascending back to heaven to the right hand of the father. And then the last thing that we're waiting on is the very last. And so uh with the help of your lovely brides. Um got a couple of made for for you fellas. And so uh Mr. Eustace, yours is first. I know you're a big duck hunter. >> Yeah. And so I went with a a camo pattern on yours. But so we went green here, but on the inside we got a tan and then we can see the little uh tan there. But before we give yours, we're going to go ahead and sign them here. >> Um >> but wanted to get these to you guys as a thank you for everything you've done for Undaunted Life. Uh all your preparation coming into the forging table. And uh shout out to Lady Eustace uh cuz she helped me come up with the idea of the the color scheme cuz I don't it's not just random leather and random stuff. It's like I I really I have put thought into the the Bibles that all these guys get. And again guys, these are not available online. Ace book binding, third generation book binder. Um it's just uh it's a cool thing to be a part of. So Mr. Eustace, >> there we go. >> Welcome to the club. Get in there, >> man. >> What do you think? That's beautiful. >> Their ESV. And the cool thing about it is what the guy does, Nathan, every single page is handsewn into these Bibles, right? And so he took uh the ESV thin line Bible and then he uh you know, you can kind of pick everything out from there. >> And then uh Mr. Howard, [laughter] I talked to Lady Wickersam and I I had a couple of different ideas, right? Because you love uh the Indiana Hooers, right? So they've got, you know, their their color scheme and everything. Uh you also happen to love who you work for, Caterpillar, and so they've got their uh their, you know, yellow and black and all that, but she had a better idea than my ideas. And isn't it so interesting? Without prompting, you wore that shirt today. [laughter] >> So we got a master's colored Bible. And so [clears throat] we've got the uh the green masters, which I think is going to match pretty close to your shirt, right? >> You got the yellow. And then we got the yellow and the red uh right there. And I thought the red would be a nice little thing for the Hooers as well. So, let's let's get this one signed up. >> So, awesome. >> While he's signing that, >> I have the Chicago Bears. >> Yeah, that was the one I went for with him. >> Yep. With the orange and the blue. And then I learned about the white, taking it back to like 70s and 80s. >> Yeah. So, the reason why I picked the the cream color on the inside of that one, Ryan, let me actually hold it up to my camera while you're signing this one. The reason why I went with the cream color on the inside of that is because every time I think about the Chicago Bears, I think back in like the Dick Buckus days and when you watch all those NFL films and all that, it's all kind of sepia and it's not it's not nothing's bright, right? So, you can see it's a muted blue and it's a muted orange, but then I went with more of the sepia on the inside as opposed to just the the flat out flatout white in there. So, >> well, thank you, Kyle. Kyle puts a lot of thought. You guys think? I don't think. And here [laughter] we go. >> This dude was texting us about this like I the past couple of weeks and every time I run, he's like, "Dude, I tell you I got some Bibles together for these guys." And I was like, "Yeah, man." You've told me like eight times now. He's been so excited. Awesome. >> We've got a couple of more guys. Yeah, you got a couple more guys yet to uh to have their their Bibles presented to them. Those won't be on the show, but the next time they are on the show, they will bring those with them. So, we now all have them right there. So, and if your name's misspelled on the front, just deal with it. Just deal with it forever. But I think I did my absolute level best. Um, >> mine says at the bottom, the one that Joby loved. >> It doesn't actually [laughter] all the people out in YouTube land. It does not say that. I don't dare. Uh, but he is going to get that etched in for himself. But no, >> I already have it tattooed. >> Yeah. In all honesty, I mean, you know, Ryan is one of one of the OGs for F forging Table. And I just remember going back to those early days cuz it was him, Grassmmer, uh, Browning, and Zack Todd and, you know, we didn't know what it was going to be at the beginning and like all the banter and stuff. That was one of the things from the beginning. I'm like, "Guys, no inside jokes, no banter, like let's stay the text, let's stay serious and all that." Like, and it was just it was a little bit too robotic. It was a little bit too like, you know, it just it it wasn't as good as it could have been. And when we when I started to loosen my grip on all this, loosen my grip on the reigns a little bit, everyone's personality started to come out. >> But then, you know, uh Winkler, the largest of all forging tablelers, he his first forging table experience was on like 24 hours notice because uh Zack Todd got sick and he was out of state and he's like, "Dude, I'm just not I'm not going to be able to make it. Like, I I got to be in bed. I can't." And so I just I called Matt Grassmire. I'm like, "Anybody just find me a human being." And he called Jake. Jake said, "Yes." And I don't remember what we were in at the time. maybe Matthew or something like that. And he came in ready, like ready to go, guns blazing. And I think he was sitting right there in your seat. >> But then you kind of get into like, okay, >> well, we're we're a good group, but like I'm obviously surrounded by more guys that spend time like spend time in the Bible, spend time in these verses that are really trying to glean meaning and all that stuff from it. And so, uh, you know, Degan and Caleb, who will be getting theirs, you know, >> by the time you guys are hearing this, they will have got theirs. >> Congratulations, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations from the past slash the future. >> We knew you would do it. God willing. Yeah. And so I just, you know, I'm just literally like I'm >> I still kind of pinch myself that you guys still like doing this, right? Because you don't have to like you don't have to do this cuz whenever I ask for your availability and like, hey, you know, this is kind of what we're looking to do. And you know, used to we would get through a a book of the Bible pretty fast. And so it was like, hey, you know, this is kind of what I'm thinking for the next one and I have a few ideas for after Romans. But I mean, we're just now getting into the second half of, you know, the book of Romans, and we've been in it for months and months and months. And so, but very, very thankful for you guys, but we don't have to belabor that any further because we do need to get into uh Romans 9. And so, you know, like I said, we we've been in Romans. And for anyone that's coming on to this, I like to remind you every time we get into a new batch. But, you know, we used to approach books of the Bible where it was like one hour, one chapter, boom, moving on. And it didn't matter if it was Matthew, Acts, Genesis, if we were covering a psalm or proverb, you know, and even in Genesis, we doubled and tripled up sometimes just to kind of get through some of those passages. And we didn't really sit in it. And I just remember having a conversation with Matt Chandler, and he's just like, "Dude, because I was telling him, I'm like, I'm thinking we need to do Romans." He's like, "Well, you don't sprint up Mount Everest, do you?" Like, that's Mount Everest. Like, you you've got to give it time. And I was and I remember pitching it to all you guys on the back porch like "Hey >> what if we just hit record and just talked for as long as was appropriate, right? And it took us four hours to get through the first seven verses of chapter 1 with Matt Chandler." And so, uh, the way we're approaching this is different. So, if some of you are coming back to the forging table, you've been gone for a while, you might be wondering why we're only hitting a few passages at a time. It's just because there's a lot of depth here. And when we get into Romans nine, you know, Paul is again, if you should read Romans in its entirety because when you when you read it little by little, which is kind of what we're doing here, you miss kind of the thrust of the entirety of the letter because this was read in its entirety, you know, when it was read in public. But he's kind of beginning his his argument for the vindication of God's character because it might seem up to this point like, hey, there's some unfairness here. >> Like, and we're going to get into that uh over these next few weeks, like, well, that doesn't seem really fair. Well, why would he do that for this group and why would he not do it for that group and you know what is Israel and like what is what does he mean when he's talking about that but really Romans 9 through11 is you know God's not finished with the Jewish people and we see through the glass dimly we don't know exactly what it looks like and before we get into Romans 9:1 I just want to kind of get y'all's thoughts because you know we were even texting before y'all got here and it's just like goodness gracious like how much ground are we really going to be able to cover over this next month or so. Well, I mean to your point like when you say like we used to take one chapter at a time and it's like I don't think we realize it's like this is some deep stuff and when you try to study a whole chapter of stuff this deep. I mean it's amazing how much time you can spend digging into this and sometimes you just have to step away from the text and I I even look at some of my notes. It was a couple days ago. I just had to stop and I even wrote down my prayer and I'm like, Lord, you settle my mind, you know, speak to me what you want me to understand out of this because it is, like you said, it's Mount Everest and for us to absorb that much at one time, I mean, it is a lot to comprehend and grasp and it's like we can't do that without him. And so, it's it's just a reminder of like how we have to go to him with some of this stuff. It's so so deep. >> That's right. I think it's also I think it's also important to realize, you know, Paul's talking to an audience there that some of them get this stuff more than others, just like we are. I mean, you go and sit down, you you read some of this stuff. You sometimes read it to where >> Oh, there you go. Sometimes you read it to where you are um investigating every word. Sometimes you're reading about like, okay, there's certain things that just stick out to me because I hear them and I know them. Paul's audience there, you know, was a mix of Gentiles and Jewish people that were following Christ and trying to figure this out. And so, like, I think too there's some allowance there to realize that like if you're sitting there reading this stuff and you hear a lot of the in-depth stuff that that we're looking at here, that is to try to entice you into looking deeper into it. But it's okay, too, that like you're gaining knowledge from it when you just read it and you absorb what Paul's trying to say. Because really when this letter was read to that church, there were those in that church that understood the history behind some of this stuff. Then there were those in that church that would afterwards they'd have to be like >> what was >> Hey bud, you're like my closest uh postJ friend, whatever you call, you know, like can you explain to me what he was just talking about there? Like I have no idea like what Paul is saying there. And so like it's just comforting to know that there's there's something the spirit wants to do with the word in both of those situations for both of those hearers. The former Jew who understood exactly what he was talking about whenever he was saying what we'll get into in this next you know chapter. Um and then those that were sitting there going I don't even know what you're talking about with the um you know people of promise and all this stuff. And so like it is comforting to know just read it and then start looking into what does he mean by this? What what is the concrete behind this? So >> well and I want to get your feedback too, Ryan. But that's I mean one of the reasons behind why I even got my initial Bibles made for me is because I found myself doing what everybody else was doing when you're sitting in a waiting room, you know, waiting for your name to be called or, you know, whatever's going on. And I just pull out my phone, start scrolling, start doing email, start responding to text messages, scrolling social media, like just, you know, just round and round and round. >> But I keep this in my truck and when I go into somewhere, this is what I bring. And so when I sit down and I wait for my name to be called, okay, I guess I'm going to read in Romans again and just reread it and reread it and reread it. And it's because we find because I keep, it happened again this morning. I was talking to a guy in our Sunday school and he's like, gosh, I just, hey, Kyle, how do you study the Bible? cuz I just I feel like I don't have time and blah blah blah. And for some people, it's it's the discipline of getting up early. It's the first thing they do. They have a a room they go to or a chair they sit in and that's kind of what they do. Whereas me, like I kind of more so go in spurts. And I told him, I'm like, "Look, I have to study the Bible for this show in the Daily Blade, right? Unless I make myself a fool and, you know, lead people astray away from the word." But, you know, even if you don't have that, I told him, I just kind of came up with an idea. I was like, "How many kids you got?" He's like, "I got three kids." I'm like, "Okay, make it like a weekly project that every week you're going to make a journal entry. Maybe a digital journal entry. I know people that will send emails to their kids and they give them the their the login to that email inbox like when they turn 18 or when they get married or something like that." >> Or maybe they write it down and make copies of it for all the different kids. >> And and it's an every Thursday morning thing or in every whatever. and you are writing down what you've studied that week and what you've learned and what God is is showing you and what the spirit's revealing to you. And I was like, now you know who's going to see that? Probably not the whole world. Probably not a publishing house. Probably not, you know, YouTube or something like that. >> Your kids are going to see that and they're going to see and they're going to see the weeks where you didn't have much to write down. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you kind of let your week get away from you and all that. But it's like >> approach it like it's, you know, a problem that needs to be solved. It's a project that needs to be completed and it's just going to change things. But Ryan, I know you've been uh you've had ants in your pants since we decided to do Romans. You just could not wait to get into Romans 9 and 10 and 11, so you can just be vindicated and be the smartest guy here. Surprised you're not wearing a cop shirt today. But hey, uh how you feeling as we get into Romans 9? >> I'm excited to get into Romans 9. It's a very deep passage. I think it's a it's a chapter that a lot of people try to try to look past. Um, some people look at it uh maybe a little bit too much and get a little cockure, but um I I like Romans in general because it's just Paul's apologetic letter on why we are who we are, what God has done, and what God did for us, and then how we should just live a Christian life. And I think it just encompasses everything that a Christian should look at. Like I wrote Romans 12 on your Bibles. It's like Romans 12 is our family's verse, you know, and it's just there's so much stuff to unpack just in even in Romans 12 that just kind of shows how we should be as Christians. And so this uh this chapter is going to get uh get pretty heavy into some things that people don't like. But uh I'm looking forward to uh you know, just giving my my thoughts on that. >> And Ryan is an overachiever because I put we all put singular verses in our signatures. He did a whole chapter, right? [laughter] You know, I think I'm just start signing Kyle T. Old Testament. I'm just gonna write Old Testament in the bottom. The whole thing right? >> Well, I was gonna just put like you're depraved. But, you know, >> everyone already knows that. Everyone already knows [laughter] that. You think that right? >> True. Your favorite author just But, you know, Paul wrote, >> it's like bam. I went >> I would go with Jude. >> Oh, yeah. You [laughter] would you would try to be try to be like that. All right. So, we're going to get into Romans 9. Uh but uh we're actually going to back up and read the last verse of Romans 8 and then we'll read uh so it's Romans 8:39 and then we're going to read verse one of Romans 9. So Howard, how about you go ahead and do that? Read the last verse of Romans 8, first verse of Romans 9. >> Last verse of 39 and then the first verse of nine. >> Yeah, there nor height nor depth nor any created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. I am telling the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience bearing witness in the Holy Spirit. >> All right. And so which version of the Bible you reading from? >> That was NASBY. I think >> NASBY. Okay. >> You've got a new ESV Bible. >> Yeah. So I didn't know if you maybe wanted to use your new Bible. Hey, that it's kind of too pretty to use. It's kind of how [laughter] it feels like it's like I'm will buy a new pair of shoes and just look at them in the box for like a week before I actually put them on my feet. But the the thing about this verse is Romans 9:1 answers Romans 8:39. like that's that's the answer to a question that wasn't posed. But it, you know, it affirms like it against any charge like in the case of the Jews that God's word has failed somehow, right? Uh in Romans 9, I I was using the Reformation Study Bible a lot. I was using John MacArthur's singular commentary and using the Logos Bible software quite a bit. Again, guys, check out the Logos Bible software. If you don't have it, you were missing out. Get the Undon Life Study Bundle. That all should be in the show notes. But like it's like this idea that God's word had failed and that his covenant love was not reliable and all that. But like right when we get into Romans 9:1 it just go it just answers that outright like hey don't think that way. And then he starts to elucidated it further from there. >> Well Russ kind of points out that you have a mixed audience here. And uh within that mixed audience you've got Jews and you've got Gentiles. And so he says I'm speaking the truth in Christ. So he's saying hey I'm a Christian who believes in Christ. Christ Christ dwells within me and I'm not lying. So is to be a Christian you should you know there's he talks against lying we shouldn't lie and then my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit. So like the Holy Spirit is is moving within him but it's the next thing that he goes in that he's saying that he's speaking the truth is that the um that he has great sorrow and increasing anguish. And the reason he has that and he's speaking that truth is because when he goes into the next thing of them being accursed. >> So >> that's how I saw that >> Paul said, you know, like Paul is all things to all men, right? And this is where he's he's showing his relatability to the idea that like what I'm about to say is very tough. >> Yep. >> And there is um there I understand where your objections are going to be. And let me just tell you, I have the same heart for those objections because it burdens my soul. >> Y >> that this is where that this is where I am. I mean that we haven't read it yet, but what he's about to say the next step, you almost read it and you're almost like, >> whoa, >> can you say that? >> Yeah. [laughter] It's like it's like going to somebody who's an unbeliever and like spouting out their sin and then like how's that going to be received? If I if I'm going to go and talk to an unbeliever and I'm just going to go and just like bullet point their sin, how am I coming across? Am I coming across with anguish and sadness that I'm having to tell you this, >> which is what he's doing right now, or I'm just being like, "Hey, I know better." Blah blah blah blah blah. And Paul's not like that. Paul's like, "No, I'm I'm telling the truth. I'm talking through Christ. The Holy Spirit dwells within me, and I've got some really tough things I have to talk to you about, and it grieves me." Yeah. >> What's the um what's the saying that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. >> Yeah. >> And that's really what Paul is giving the example here is that he is setting the example to say I have to tell them h and let them know how much I really care. And his statements here I believe do because they kind of take you back and and and knock you down and say did Paul really just say that? I mean is that really where his heart is is what he's about to say? when Paul I mean he's he's essentially swearing an oath here. >> Yeah. >> Like because it says I because people are like well isn't that a little bit redundant? It's like hey I am speaking the truth in Christ. Great. Got it. >> I am not lying. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Like my conscience bears witness in the Holy Spirit. Like I just imagine a guy like in a court like he's asked to hold up his hand and put his other hand on the Bible and say hey I swear. And then he says everything that the court ordered person needs to you know needs them to say and then he says >> I I I super swear. like I super duper like double promise like this what I'm about to tell you is true and so again he Paul's a table setter right so he's setting tables from letter to letter when he's writing to the same church at you know Thessalonica or Corinth or whatever he's he's a table setter but even within his letters like because sometimes when you're reading Paul's letters you feel like like what did I just get hit with an uppercut like out of nowhere did I just get sucker punch but it's like no he he's been he's been signposting where he's going the whole time and he certainly doing that with verse one. >> And he started that in eight. Like everything about 8 lines up to to 9 and then verses 6 through 7 just bring it all home. >> And so, but what we have to do is within nine is we have to be able to discuss >> kind of where people's thoughts are at after listening to eight and what's going on in society at that point right now in regards to the Jewish people. >> I mean, he's setting up to go through all these objections, right? Yeah. So, I mean, at the end of the day, whenever we're trying to share our hearts with someone or change somebody's mind about something, it all starts with trust, right? >> Whether it's in business, whether it's with our kids, we're trying to develop some level of trust. And where does trust start? It's like when you have a heart for someone, you have much more of a willingness to to trust when they show their heart. And I think that's completely what Paul's trying to do here, you know, to the extent of what what he goes into in in verse two. I mean, >> I found kind of convicting. It's like, man, do I ever like >> uh the um when he talks, can I go ahead and read two? >> We're about to read Hey, here. Let's Let's go ahead and open this up. So, keep your thought. This might be a mistake. Let's read 2, three, and four, and five. >> Uh we're just we're going to look at that entire chunk, and we may not be able to finish it this recording, but let's just go and read two through five. You want to go and do that, Ryan? >> Yeah, I can do that. >> All right. that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promise. To them belong the patriarchs and from their race according to the flesh is the Christ who is God overall. Blessed forever. Amen. Oh, okay. Yeah. Go ahead, Ryan. Kick us off. >> So, like he talks about great sorrow and unceasing anguish in his heart. Like, I found that convicting. It's like >> we have arguments with people on whether it's theological subjects or sin or anything or even non-believers. And it's like when we're doing that and we're trying to win the argument, you know, he's he's here to make an argument, but his like he's coming with like love and everything. He's coming with anguish. It's like, I want you to really understand this because it's very important. And how many times do like do I come to an argument when I'm trying to make an argument that I really love this person. I just really want them to understand it. Or how many times do I come to an argument where it's just like I know it. I've read it. I know what it is. I'm right. You just got to deal with it. And like Paul doesn't Paul doesn't do that at all. But Paul Paul comes across like, you know, very forthright a lot. We talk about um his time with Peter in uh Galat was it Galatians or Ephesians? >> Galatians. >> Galatians 2. >> Yeah. Where he like calls out Peter, you know, so Paul's very forthright, but how much anguish did Paul have in his heart when he was getting ready to call out Peter? I'm sure he did, you know, even though it's not really like pointed out, but just reading how Paul is just saying, "All right, I got some bad news." And this bad news sets up the good news and sets up why God's covenants are still uh within his people. >> Well, I think that's the the part that you know, I kind of took this in multiple multiple directions, but the one it's like, do I have that much anguish in my heart >> for the lost >> or for the people in my own circle that are lost? Like, you know, I was listening to Sproul talk about it and he's like, you know, he's like, I've got sorrow for people, but I don't have my the sorrow that Paul did to that point, right? He's like, I wish I had that, but I in honesty, I don't. And I'm just like for myself. Do I have enough anguish that I'm willing to step out of my comfort zone and go have a tough conversation with somebody I work with, >> but in a loving way. >> In a loving way. >> And you're right. And it's like one thing you brought up Sproul and uh it talks about here where um where Paul says he wishes he could give up uh for the sake of his brothers. >> Mhm. >> And it's just like how many he goes Sproul goes I don't want to give up my salvation for anyone not no [laughter] one you know and I was thinking about that. I was like you know what like I I hear him on that 100%. And it's like I look at one of my kids I was like dude I'll gladly go to hell for 100%. We had the exact same thought whenever I was studying. >> Yeah. when I was studying that cuz I was just like when it comes to like some dude off the street a non-believer it's like I don't have the heart that Paul has >> you know >> um but when it comes to my kids which is my kin my flesh I totally feel the same way Paul feels >> but >> I got to remember that that person outside >> that you know that that's not a believer like they're still part of my flesh >> and I have to remember that. So it was it was kind of convicting. Well, in verse three again, for I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to flesh. And we're going to get into flesh versus offspring, you know, >> flesh versus sons. And we we kind of already went there in chapter 8, >> but um one of the notes from the Reformation Study Bible is that, you know, this echoes the sentiments of Moses in the face of the unbelief of the Jews. So we see that in uh Exodus 32 32 and 34. But now if you will forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written. I mean, gosh, I mean, what a connection. But the Lord said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book." And so inherent in what God is answering to Moses is, "No, I I understand your heart and your desire." Because a curse, you can kind of, you know, wave your hand and go over that. Like there are other translations that I wish that I were anathema, >> right? >> Yeah. And that is literally like cursed, banned, John Wick, excommunicado, like you are like you are out like because there there are people that were were chosen to have the covenantal grace of God, right? And we're going to be unpacking that for the next several weeks and several hours. But I mean, I couldn't think of a stronger statement of love. And just to, you know, double tap what Ryan was just saying, I think all of us given the opportunity to guarantee the salvation of our children, uh, in exchange for our own damnation would take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But you're right, who's going to do that for a stranger or even someone that's kin, right? Uh, you know, cultural kin or racial kin, right? A Jew or something like that. That's where Paul is at his sanctification process, that he is willing to give up his spot in the Lamb's book of life. >> Yeah. >> So that someone else he's never met could have an opportunity. I mean, I I can't think of a larger love statement than that. >> It reminded me of the Ask a Pastor episode where you asked Joby like, "Hey, you're there's like 12 people on a boat, only 11 can stay on." Like, who's and like Joby's like, "I'm throwing myself off." I'm like, "Yeah, absolutely. That was the easiest question you ever gave." >> Well, okay. [laughter] So, I I tried to put my thumb on the scale and make it like the the assumptive close, which is all right, someone's got to go and you're the head of the someone's got to go committee. How do you decide who gets thrown off? And that jack wagon just said the perfect biblical answer. It's like myself off. And I was like, >> come on, that's not funny. >> It's cuz he was deep into Romans 9. He was feeling a little opposed feeling. He's like, I'm just going to sacrifice myself. >> I mean, I I normally don't like trying to make people uncomfortable. It's just not really my thing. And so, [laughter] uh, I just, you know, it's probably good at the end. I just made >> be honest at the table. Yeah, you're probably right. [laughter] >> It says it says right here, >> I am not lying. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's Paul. Uh so, so he's different, but go ahead. >> Well, I was going to say I mean that that uh talking about Joby, it made me think of that one more, right? Like their whole thing is do we have that one more we're trying to reach? And it's just like this was convicting to me. Am I consistent enough? Am do I have enough sorrow that I'm going to be consistent about praying for these people? Right? whether it's a close person, it's like you know I grew up um you know and I prayed a lot right and came to salvation and I always thought man like if I ever meet someone who's you know sorry when my when I met my father-in-law he was a non-believer and I'm like I think I should be able to convince him. I mean, you know, just thinking through that and it's like conversation after conversation, no, his his heart is hardened right? >> But it's just like until I met him, he there was probably not someone I prayed so fervently for to come to know Christ, >> right? And it's just like, do we have do we have enough anguish? Yeah, we can go die for someone, but can we every day get up and pray for someone to come to that part? >> Yeah. I mean, sitting around the table at Sunday school this morning, there's a a young lady's from Albania and uh I think she's the only uh one in her family. Most of her family is still back in Albania. She's the only one who is a Christian and they're all uh devout Muslims and her brother is militantly >> uh devout uh >> Muslim >> and she was just describing some of the conversations she had and she kind of used uh Job's language which he probably recycled from somebody else cuz I've heard this a million different places but it's like who's that one person that you pray for where if they accepted Christ it would change everything about everything for you. That's the entire concept of one more. And so I remember the very first time I went to visit a church of 1122. They had they had a one more wall on their main campus. I don't know if it's still there, but that's where people and there were markers all over uh the wall and you just picked it up and you wrote the name of your one more on the wall. And one of the coolest things about that wall is a lot of the names are crossed out, you know. >> Oh man, that's pretty awesome >> because, you know, >> they're saved now and people get to go update the wall and put a new name up there. You know what I mean? Yeah. >> And it's just like just imagine having such passionate like you know for that one more and a lot of these people weren't even involved in the conversion. They get told after the fact and it's almost like hey dude what about all the conversations we had? Why did you have to break down and cry in front of somebody else? Why could you not [laughter] like it's all kind of tongue and cheek but it's like man that's that's what we're doing all this for. This isn't just so that we can you know >> be more impressive in a conversation with somebody like that's why we're going to this so often. It'd be incredible to see like them use different color Sharpies to be like, hey, if you're a second generation one waller. >> Yeah. >> Come write your one more >> in this, you know, cuz like you got to think that now that there's being names crossed off, that's now people that are coming and writing a new name on there. That's right. I mean, >> it is. I do think there's something to this where Paul um there's something about the fact like we all relate to like our kids like we would give up that what we would give up for them. Um, and then that goes broader into like people you're in close relationship. Maybe you're one more. Like it's all it's like how broad does that go? And then there are those people that I think Paul is demonstrating here. His broadness and and I think there's something there. The closer we get to being in line with the Holy Spirit, the more fuzzy we get on where that line cuts off. >> Does that make sense? in a good way. Like for who our one more is, for who our >> like Paul here is saying >> for anyone that I would consider a kinsman like for that people group that whole group. I don't even have like my list of top five old buddies that used to be Pharisees with him or whatever. He's like no like all of it. It's it's it's blurred the lines for for Paul so much as far as like not just one person's name, but he is relating it to this whole group of people and being like and I don't know if y'all have ever I've met some people like that in my Christian walk that just have a complete passion for a whole group of people and you would you would think that they knew that whole group of people but the Lord has just given them the Holy Spirit has just developed a heart for them to where they would literally say that towards anybody in that group and I think there's something interesting there you know that Paul that's where his heart is is that he is he is grouping his ministry and whole people portions to say like my heart is for these people I I would do anything that I could do for them >> if only they would um >> listen it reminds me of the scripture that says you know um if you would only he's talking to Israel he's like if you would only hear my voice and come like I would bring you under my wings like a mother hen like that idea that it's the anguish of knowing that that it's out there and that they're not coming to it. >> Well, I remember so it's funny you say that because I remember interviewing Julie Proctor on the show. It's episode 744 of the show. She's in 1122 um that has a ministry called Monostfay in Panama and you know it's taking care of these these kids right in in poverty and destitution and all these kinds of things. cuz I remember asking her and I, you know, I knew I knew I needed to ask the question cuz I knew other people were going to ponder it and wonder it. And that's that's part of how I do my preparation for interviews is what would my audience if they were amalgamated into one person, what would they ask? And so I was just like, "Hey, you know, Julie, there are kids in America that are hungry and that are cold when it's, you know, cold out and hot when it's hot out and all that." >> And she was like, I was called to the children of Panama. >> Yeah. >> And I was like, >> honest. Mhm. >> That's her answer. She was called to a specific group at a specific time in history and that is what she was given a heart for. And what she's not saying is I don't care about those dumb American kids. That's not what she's saying. She's just saying that is not my mission field. And it's the same thing whenever people get really frustrated about other people's success. >> It's like, bro, why are you why are you mad about their race? >> That's their race to run. Why are you mad that you're not running their race? Like, you need to run your race. you need to focus in on what you've got to do. >> Yeah. >> The other thing to look at too is you when he calls when he says, "I wish I myself were a cursed and cut off from Christ." It actually kind of feeds back to the last verse that we talked about in Romans 8 that nothing else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. So salvation's forever. So even if he wanted to give it up, even if we wanted to give it up, >> Yeah. We can't >> because of what God's covenant is and what it already is is that we we can't lose it. >> It's impossible. >> That's right. I mean, that gets into, you know, Perseverance of the Saints and it's like, okay, you know, when you see someone that has fallen away, they were faithful and then they fell away. The stronger argument is that they never had faith to begin with. That they were, and this is a rough way to say it, but they were closer to Judas than they were to one of the other apostles, right? Because Judas followed Jesus around, but he was not a he was not a discipleh. Mhm. >> He was not a believer. And I mean, you can see because when you get into John in the upper room discourse, you know, it says that Satan enters into Judas. This is right before Jesus looks at Judas. And again, my my hunch is that he's not talking to Judas at that moment. He's talking to Satan, but he says, "What you must do, do quickly." Giving Satan permission to kill him. Right? This is God using his sovereignty through part of the Godhead to give Satan permission to do what Satan thinks is his checkmate point. And like in in these circumstances, you have people that that it's it's not that they fell away, it's that they never were there. They were doing Christian things, but they were never they had never pushed duo. They had never placed their faith and transferred their faith into someone else. >> That that piece there. So like obviously, you know, Horn, you know, I' got a little bit of a different perspective on that. And so like I see Yeah, I see that here. I see I see him saying this as for I could wish and that's where like that's where if you were going to look at it from that perspective you would say that Paul is still maintaining the idea that um that if he if he could wish for this um that he could be cut off but that he's not saying I do wish for this and yet I can't. But I do see I mean like it does make sense with that. It just also, you know, I don't want to overplay too much that by him saying, "For I could wish that I myself were a cursed and cut off from Christ," not being the same as him saying, "I wish that I were, but I cannot be." I think it's a little bit different, but close. >> The could wish part is basically saying he knows through perseverance of the saints that he can't. So he's like, "If I could, I would, but I can't." Why? Because God is sovereign. I am not sovereign. God is God's plan. >> That's reading a lot into that I could versus just reading >> if you read all of nine that totally plays up to if I could wish. >> Yeah. If you read it under the context I mean we're going to get we're going to get into the rest of verse 9 on the context of whether it's individualism versus >> uh the groups and the peoples and stuff. And so I'm just saying for the listeners that aren't in that camp that there is to take that if I could and then relate it to he's basically saying that I know that I can't but it more that he's saying and if I could like I would say this but I'm not doing that. He's separating the fact of I'm not allowing myself to do this because I'm not quite there yet. >> So my heart wants to. >> We have to get into the the tense here. And so the the first part of three, so this first phrase, for I wish, for I could, this is for I could wish that I myself were accursed. That's the imperfect tense. >> And so when you're in the imperfect tense, that's indicating that his his wish or his his prayer is unattainable. >> And he knows that. >> Yeah. >> But he's still desirous of it, right? >> And so it's not like, hey, I could or it's not it's not as casual on the could language. So we read that in modern English and then we focus on, well, could. So, it's like that's one of my least favorite words. Could, maybe, might. Like, I just hate like that kind of thing. It's like, hey, just say it with your chest, black or white. But with it being in the imperfect tense, it's an acknowledgement that he knows it's unattainable, but he still is expressing the desire. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And I'm still on board with it. I'm just saying that he knows that it's unattainable as in the sense of he knows that him offering himself that there is only one redemption of offering for sin and it is Christ. And so, he's saying, I wish I could if this was a thing that could be done to where I could give myself that would redeem them. But he's saying >> he can't. >> I know that I can't say he's insufficient. I could I could die and I'm insufficient. It it doesn't matter. I couldn't do that. Even if I said I could do it has no impact on the fact that it my death would not bring redemption to anybody. >> But if you go through more of nine and which which we'll we'll we'll we'll bring down is he knows it's impossible because of God's sovereignty because he's going to pretty much preach God's sovereignty all the way through nine. when if we if we continue that thread with four and five because when you get into four and five, you know, when it's talking about they are Israelites, one of the things that it kind of refers back to is it goes all the way back to Exodus 4. >> I think if we do that, we're getting way too >> what >> I just feel like if we're going to Exodus 4, are we getting into uh >> we can pick back up in it next week if we don't quite if we don't quite wrap it. >> Go back and look at that. So, when you get into Exodus 4:22 and 23, uh, it says, let me find it. Okay. Then you shall say to Pharaoh, thus says the Lord, Israel is my firstborn son, and I say to you, let my son go that he may serve me if you refuse to let him go. Behold, I will kill your firstborn son. And then we look at it. Now, there's I've I've seen different calculations here about the number of privileges that are described privileges of the Israelites. Y >> but according to some different uh calculations or declarations or whatever the eight privileges described here in just two verses are one adoption two glory three the covenants four the giving of the law five the worship six the promises then to verse five seven the patriarchs and then uh if you go to the end who is God overall blessed forever or blessed forever so that's eight privileges giving to given to Israel and uh you know when you go back again into Ro Exodus 4 you know the Lord refers to the people of Israel as my sons and then at the end you see the uh the claim of divinity where it says is in Christ who is God over all blessed forever like all those kinds of things and so there's there's a tremendous amount of privilege >> on the the Israelites on the the the people that are greater Israel and that's you know a through point of not only chapter 9 but also 10 and 11. >> So he's basically talking about how they're accursed. They're they're cursed now. And he even says even they the Israelites and to them belong the adoption of the glory and the covenants, the giving of the law which they're given the law and like you said and then the worship and the promise but then belong the patriarch. So you have Moses, Jacob >> um or Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Isaac and then from their >> race according to the flesh is the Christ. So even through their race that Christ came from their race, yet they're still >> accursed due to their unbelief in Christ. >> Yeah, I don't see any issues with that. >> Yeah. Do you I guess the curse part like do you think I don't really see him saying that they are themselves >> a cursed like as a people group because we see we see later on like he's accepting I mean this whole church was started by a Jewish population. So like it's not like God is cursing the Jews not to come to Christ, right? You're just saying as a as a population as a whole, they are they appear damned because they're not doing it. >> So at the time, if we're looking at it at this time, the Jewish, if you were Jewish, you were considered the chosen people a part of everything. But a lot of the Jews are the Jewish nation is a cursed >> because some of the Jews don't follow towards Christ. You know, they they sacrifice the Messiah. It kind of comes back to Matthew 8. Um, I'm going to read 10 through um 12. >> Mhm. >> When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, "Truly I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. While the sons of the kingdom, the kingdom that he's talking about at this time is Israel, will be thrown into outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and nashing of teeth. >> So it's Jesus kind of foretelling that and this is kind of it's it's going back cuz when we go through six and seven which I probably think we'll probably get into next week depending on time but >> basically eight hinges off six and seven and where people think that the lie is happening or where God God is God has failed is that his promised Jewish people do not believe in the Messiah. Mhm. >> And so he's now that's where he comes up and says it's not about the people, it's about who God names and calls. >> And so that's when we'll get more into the history of Abraham uh with Isaac and Ishmael and then also get into Esau and Jacob. >> And we also have to look up the runup >> of the first eight chapters getting into nine. >> Yeah. >> Was the individualization of depravity. >> Yep. >> Right. Because again, in the early chapters of Romans, there were times where some of the Gentiles were like, "Yeah, get those Jews." And then there were times like, "Yeah, get those Gentiles." >> And it's just like, "Wait [laughter] a minute, the language shift. Oh crap, he's talking to me. This everything shifted like this is bad." >> And so it's it's individualizing like the sin debt to to a particular group. And again, what is what is Romans 9:10 and 11? Again, it's this is Paul's foray into defending the character and nature of God, which is ultimately a defense of God's sovereignty to be able to do whatever he wants with with whomever he wants to whatever ends he desires. >> And uh he's using uh beings that are capable of love and capable of all those things in order to continue to get what he wants done done. Um, I mean it goes back to the the episode I did with the leash on the dragon episode to where it's like look at all the people from Genesis to Revelation that were doing evil in service of themselves andor Satan and God just saying, "Yep, I'll use that and I will use that and I will use that." Oh, Satan. Yep, I'll use Judas, a guy on the inner circle for the last three years with Judas uh with Jesus. I'm going to use all that, too. It's my plan A. It's been my plan A from the beginning. And so I think that's it's more so not uh separating the n well I guess you could say it's separating the nation of Israel to those who will remain in Adam and those who will become in Christ >> and making it an individual appeal to them to to place their faith in him. He's also um I think it's like one of the cool things whenever you can read Paul, we we read these books and we kind of classify him on winning a debate or an argument and like that Paul is saying this. I think it's also really clarifying to remember that Paul is very rarely trying to win an argument as much as he is he is conflict resolving. He's he was resolving conflict to tell them like this is this is the truth. This is what you've been doing. This is out of line. This is where the Gentiles, you guys are getting pretty high and mighty on yourself about not having to follow anything and not caring about the Old Testament, things like that. And then he's going back to the Jewish population. He's like, "Hey guys, uh y'all also are having a lot of conflict with saying that y'all have some special character there that should give y'all a special ranking within the church." And so does he does he win arguments? Yes. Like in some of his writing he has to outline the argument. >> I was say he's got to overcome the objections. >> Yeah. He's got to overcome the objections. That's how he does his writing. He he writes as if his opposing person is sitting right next to him and he tries to come and get their get their opinion of what he just said or what he's about to say and address it in his writing. But it's kind of the idea of um have you ever known somebody that is really good at winning an argument but really poor at resolving conflict? You know, >> a lot of that is called marriage. >> Those are two different Yeah. Those are two two [laughter] different things. And so like I think a lot of times um you can you can go at it too and and acknowledge of like man what I what I really need to see here too is what arguments he is making but also what conflict is he trying to resolve here and where where does that conflict um make him address certain things certain ways. when inherent with what you're saying is that he is okay with conflict, right? And so if you are called to speak the truth in love, sometimes that is going to require you hopping into the fray. And that's that's the thing I think a lot of Christians get wrong that they don't even engage [clears throat] in something because they're like, "Oh, there could be turbulence. This could get a little bit sticky. This could get a little bit difficult." >> But the thing is is you constantly in a situation like what you're describing, like what you're describing, Russ, is you're constantly having to do a heart check. kind of what you were talking about earlier, Ryan, is it like, am I trying to win >> am I trying to win this argument or am I trying to win someone to Christ? Am I trying to be the hands and feet of the gospel right now to speak the truth and love to somebody because we live in an era where in order to love somebody, you are supposed to aid them in their sin, right? You know, the question of, you know, should I attend? I I got invited to a gay wedding. Should I attend? It's like, well, no, because there's always usually somebody up there with some sort of frock or some sort of like person that's, you know, at least pretending to be a religious person. And so that is showing that they think that this is something happening before God, which is an abominable thing. And your presence there is a an a yes and amen to what God would call abominable. And so in those moments, it's like those are one of those moments, maybe not at the actual like wedding, but you know, hey, you do you, boo. But it's like where you have to speak the truth and love to somebody and be like, "No, I cannot go and support this." But, you know, I want you to be in our lives. I always tell people, you get invited to a gay wedding, you don't go, but they should the first house they have dinner in as a quote unquote married couple should be yours. You bring them over and you just like, you know, just just gospel love all over them. But we don't love someone by saying their sin is okay and by hating them. And people look at, oh, I'm just attending a wedding. I'm not actually participating. No, what you're actually doing is say you have a friend that's got a, you know, a meth addiction. What you're doing is going and getting them fresh needles and pulling some into the syringe and handing it to them while you hold onto the belt tied around their arm. That's what you're doing whenever you're attending a gay wedding. And it's like again and Paul, you know, Paul makes the argument that we have to have an apologia for our faith. And sometimes that requires a little bit of little bit of dissonance. As as blunt as that analogy is, like the truth is in our society, even even the bluntness of that reality on the drug addiction, things like that, there are programs that are labeled as, you know, caring programs that are doing just that, right? That are clean. >> I mean, so that is that is like that analogy doesn't even hit as hard to our society anymore because people can be like, well, I could see why they're going to shoot up. We might as well make sure they're doing sexy, you know, like this over compassion. But >> if my kids are going to do this, I might as well do it in my house. >> Hey, well, yeah, I've heard that >> without drinking. Hey, we know our kids are going to have sex, so we want them to have safe sex. Let's give the kids condoms. And it's like, no. Again, I I I use the blunt imagery cuz I want y'all to think when you are tutting someone's sin, when you're slow rolling it, whenever you're soft pedaling it, whenever you're sugar coating it, >> your hand is on the belt wrapped around their arm, right? >> That no one would do that. their person, their friend, their family member that's drug addicted, they wouldn't hold the belt to make sure the veins popped out. They would never do such a thing except they do and except they do it all the time and they they're constantly, you know, they're selling their witness, you know, that down the road. They're selling it down the river just to like make someone feel good in the moment. >> That's an easy one to like put out there. The the next phase of that is to look and be like, I know I'm guilty of that somewhere. >> You know, we all have moments where contradictable people. >> There's something I'm blind to or there's some maybe there's some people in my life that are maybe untouchable that maybe they hold a position or they have a job or they have, you know, something that I feel like that like, well, we're not there yet. And and some of those like some of that I think through wise counsel somebody would tell you like, yeah, you're not there yet on that relationship to have that authority to speak into their their lives. But there's a lot of people in our lives that there's probably something else that we would be surprised that we would maybe look back in reflection and the Holy Spirit would be like, "You realize you're actually doing the same thing, but just in a more low-key deal that nobody's paying attention to." >> Yeah. We all have different flavors and um and categories of deceiving ourselves and uh all that. So uh guys, we're going to have to leave it there and we're going to get back into Romans 9 next week. So, we just, you know, sort of wrapped up through Romans 9:5, but we're going to at least get into Romans 9:6 next week. So, make sure you're ready to go for that. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Our mission at Undunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Ways that you can help yourself do that. The Logos Undaunted Life Study Bundle. You heard the ad at the beginning. You guys got to go get that. We also have a forging table starter set. So, if you're starting a men's group, men's Bible study, or something like that, you don't really know exactly what materials to get. There are five amazing resources here that you can get at a 50% discount. 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Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [music] Heat. Heat.