Hey guys, real quick. So, I've talked to men literally all across the globe about where they're missing the mark and how they want to improve. They normally talk about how they wish they were in better shape, they wish they had a better relationship with their loved ones, they wish they had more success and influence at work and some other stuff like that. But, here are some of the most common and biggest things that I hear. I wish I knew more about the Bible. I wish I could lead my family spiritually. I wish I could recall more scripture. I wish Bible study wasn't such a struggle. Well, guys, I've got news for you. You don't have to keep wishing. It's time for you to start doing. It's time for you to stop wasting your time and money on stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever. I keep hearing you talk about how you want to be more biblically literate and spiritually resilient, and now is your chance to prove that you mean it. That's why I want you to take advantage of our partnership with the most powerful Bible software on planet Earth, Logos. So, Logos approached me about putting something together for the Undaunted Life-ers out there, and we collaborated to create something I'm super pumped about. The Undaunted Life Study Bundle. So, here's the skinny on the bundle. There are over 200 individual resources, and they include titles from authors like Voddie Bauckham, Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, William Lane Craig, Paul Washer, John Stott, Doug Wilson, Paul David Tripp, J.I. Packer, and a whole bunch more. And there are so many helpful resources in there. There's Bibles, commentaries, Old and New Testament study guides, devotionals, systematic theologies, courses dictionaries histories encyclopedias, non-fiction books, and more and more and more. And here's the most insane part about this deal. If you were to buy each individual resource by yourself inside of Logos, it would cost you over $3,000. $3,000. But, if you get the Undaunted Life Study Bundle, you'll get all 200-plus resources for just $349.99. Guys, that's $3,000 worth of stuff for 350 bucks. Guys, that's almost 90% off. And you know that you waste more than that on the hobbies that you have right now all the time, and these won't help you with your discipleship and sanctification journeys, right? It's time to get real and take control of your Bible study and spiritual development. Click the link in the show notes for this episode. If you want the link, it's logos.com /undauntedlife. That's www.logos.com/undauntedlife or the link in the show notes. It's super easy to sign up. Again, go to the show notes and click the link or go to logos.com/undauntedlife, sign up for Logos, and get the Undaunted Life Study Bundle right now. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. >> Not yet. You have to push. >> Has >> Just You'll get it. I mean, this isn't that hard. It's not like the other timer. >> Evidently, it's really hard. I just did it [laughter] wrong. >> You're already correcting him. I mean I mean >> Landon, leave it in. Uh we're going to let that [laughter] just be part of the introduction uh because I'm pretty sure this the IQ of the entire table just went down with that discussion. By all means ready set go. Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, physical resilience. We also give people the opportunity to learn how to turn things over on the table. How in the world did we make it the timer thing this much simpler and still became an issue? But at the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys, obviously, uh forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience, specifically spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. We're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Dagan, that's Ryan, that's Howard. I'm just not sure how y'all made it to the ages you've been at right now considering what what we just had to witness. What when the world was what was that? What was >> Usually you flip it over right when you start talking, right? >> Yeah. Click. Yes. >> I I I wasn't wrong in what I Okay. >> You're in on it. >> All I DID WAS LIKE DAGAN WAS JUST LIKE HE'S LIKE I WANT TO TURN this over before anybody >> All I did was touch it. I I was just going to like be ready. >> No, you had it and you were like It was It was a very like I'm doing this now kind of attitude Dagan. >> I was just I mean we have video evidence of it. Like people are going to see >> Hey, I'm a go-getter. I'm going to I just it's just my personality. >> Okay. A guy that's not going to wait for somebody to tell you what to do, right? >> a clock flipper. >> Clock Okay, well, yeah. And so when this whole go-getter thing before we got on air, we were having this discussion and I just want to throw it out there to the group. Why are none of y'all okay with physical violence? Y'all are all pacifists. You're all kind of like Y'all are kind of like Nathan Apfel-esque guy if you will. >> How would you >> of have got that Crispin Mayfield vibe going on with everything. Is that too far? >> genitalia. >> Is that too far? We can go there later. [laughter] But yeah, what's the deal? I mean we we've made all the jokes about jiu-jitsu and knee on belly, not to be confused with knee on belly. But yeah, what's up with what's up with you guys not >> I just like to be able to use my bicep and my big toes, so >> Oh, hey, that is a great reminder. [laughter] So camera one here, this is what I'm normally dealing with and working with, guys. See it, right? And then I'm going to put the microphone so y'all can get the full glory of what I'm about to show you with my left arm. >> Wow. >> That's crazy. Hey, if it makes you feel better, it still looks bigger than my arm. >> Look at this stupid arm. It's the worst arm in the world. >> Oh, man. Like Goliath doesn't even look like Goliath's head anymore. It just looks crazy. >> He's got like a little mermaid tattoo on there. >> Yeah. Oh my >> You should show your >> Is that a foreshadowing of what it will look like in 25 years? >> Man, I don't know. No, I I want to be jacked until the moment I am I'm dead, but I say that I'm clearly not that right now. How long does it take to get to get that? All right, so I keep hearing that muscle memory is a thing. I just don't know if it's short-term or long-term because like if it's like going to remember my arm when I was nine, it's going to stay this size, right? But if if it's remembering like, you know, nine weeks ago, that would be perfect. That would actually be awesome if it went back to kind of normal size. But back to the question at hand, why you if you know, even though that was a good segue cuz I didn't want the audience to appreciate that. I wanted in perpetuity people to understand what I'm currently dealing with with a baby's arm attached to my body. But yeah, what's the deal? Why don't why don't y'all think people should fight? Why are y'all going to just let's all abuse everyone around you? Why do why don't >> I just don't like hairy legs wrapped around my legs or my neck. >> You don't have a problem with other people fighting, but you seem to have a problem with learning how to do it yourself. Looking at all three of you. >> No, I I was the only one who acknowledged that I've been involved in a brawl like with my >> That's a true story. >> I was I was swinging fists. >> [laughter] >> I didn't know what There wasn't any There wasn't any skill or like like like martial art involved, but I was like swinging. >> Wouldn't it have been better if you had some some skill in that moment? Okay. Now, let's say the brawl is breaking out and you see somebody walking off with one of your kids. And now you have no means by which cuz you're being held down by a superior man. >> I I don't know. In that situation you described, that's the one where Joby talks about you just you throw the first ring and then the rest of and then you go running. >> I see red and he's going to like >> Yeah. Just like >> that power that moms have when they say like, "Mom!" All you got to see Dagan on the ground and be like, "Mommy!" >> Yeah, because of all those all those examples we've seen of women who are completely out of shape and then all of a sudden they can deadlift a truck off of their child because that's definitely happened in real life. >> I've seen it in the movies. >> Oh, and there we are. They were sci-fi movies. That's the one thing that he didn't tell you in the audience there. >> It was a Disney movie. Okay. >> No, I want you guys [laughter] I want you guys to to you know >> I want to protect the people around me. That's why I talk about jujitsu all the time and boxing and wrestling and all >> I'm really happy that you have something that you are really into. >> This is not a I'm not talking about a hobby. I'm talking about something that's a transferable skill that can allow you to protect an image bearer of God. >> I can swing a golf club pretty fast. >> Yeah, let's go back to the story. So all kidding aside, a few [laughter] years ago in Philadelphia, there was a woman that was being raped on a train. Okay? >> Was it Shane Claiborne the one in the train? >> No, no, I'm being serious. This is in broad daylight. She's being raped on a train. When the police show up, about five or six individuals walk up with their phones and offer them to the police because they videoed what was happening. >> They didn't do anything? >> None of them interceded. Now, >> That's a coward. >> whenever you are familiar with violence, a a like you're doing jujitsu or boxing or wrestling or Muay Thai or when you're familiar with violence, you are not as scared of violence, right? Cuz just by by virtue of doing jujitsu doesn't mean that you're going to be a killer or that you're going to be able to you be cool, calm, and you know, ice cold in those situations, but it does mean you're not scared of getting hurt. You realize you're not made of porcelain. And so, the reason why I train is not just cuz I enjoy it, because it's good for exercise, cuz it's good for all those things, it's because there will be a situation or could be a situation someday where either my wife, my children, or someone I love, or a stranger is being violated, and it is incumbent upon me to be able to stop it. And for all you conceal carriers out there, I have people tell me all the time, "I don't need to train. I'll just shoot them." There are plenty of circumstances where using your body to control another human being is the superior thing, because you take your gun out and shoot somebody, >> Cuz you're going to be >> well, now your your firearm's going to be taken away, you're at least going to spend the night in jail, you're going to have to have a lot of attorneys, or at least going to have civil issues going on, if not civil and criminal issues, and you could go to prison, right? And so, So like, why, when you could control a situation when you're with your body would you, you know, go to a tool? >> But you can still deal with that if you control somebody with their body cuz didn't that happen to Daniel Penny? He didn't have a gun or anything. He had a good day. >> And so the in physical altercations it's very rare that someone actually dies. When someone is shot the odds of them dying go up considerably cuz they were shot. >> On your example on was it on the subway you said? >> Yeah, it was like the the above ground train or whatever in Philly. >> so don't you think like when I hear that I think like how old are these people cuz that's more of a generational >> They're all adults. >> They're all adults. Really? Because like because like I I can see if it was like and I don't want I don't want to I don't know who the audience age demographic is but if it was >> if it was younger, you know, I can see how their go-to would be grab my phone. But I mean the way that I grew up it was it was different and the way that like my dad grew up was definitely different. Like who who was the uh what was the school district here in Oklahoma where the dude walked in with a gun and the principal >> Well, came out and >> Was it Marietta? >> No, it was Purcell. >> Lindsay or something. >> Davis. >> It's somewhere in South Central Oklahoma. It'll come to me. Go ahead. >> I got to look it up. >> So yeah, please do. >> that principal didn't have any training but he grew up in a time you know what I mean? Like he he it was just like probably more in like how he saw the world based on how like his upbringing, right? >> Yeah. >> Um like I got when I was growing up I would get swats when I was a little kid. You know, and like I had parents who loved me and I never got a swat that I didn't know was coming and didn't feel like I I didn't feel injustice. >> Paul's Valley. Thank you. But the part of thing yeah, there's a generational aspect but I think part of what has happened is So I remember my grandpa telling this story where he had a conflict with a kid. This was I don't know, elementary school, middle school, something like that. And the teacher told each boy to get a friend, go down the road, handle it, and then come back. Right? So, each got a buddy in case it got out of hand, right? They had someone that could intercede on their behalf. And it was like, "I'm not dealing with this conflict. Go fight, come back, and then move on." >> And as as in typical guy fashion, you fight a guy and then that's like your best friend for the rest of your life. You kind of like figure out something about him. >> I remember the time we Yeah. >> But now, it's like even even a sheepdog violence situation in a school, meaning a child is actively hurting another child, and a third child intercedes for the one being victimized, that person that intercedes is almost in every case being suspended as well. >> Yeah, that's because we live in the snowflake society. >> Yeah, super hyper femal- feminized uh you know, school systems and all of these different things. >> But anyway, the the commercial is is making sure that you are ready. And so, the the thing is is always making sure your body's ready to do the work that God would have you to do. And you don't want to fall to the level of your training if you have none. >> If I was on the subway and somebody was being raped in front of me, I would go and stop that guy. I'll probably die. And that's okay. But I'd at least try to do something. I got like one move. >> Yeah. >> Which >> And it's the same move that I almost [laughter] like >> want to know. >> Is it neon belly? >> It's whatever this is. >> Is it the story we heard before we started recording? >> It's like a sleeper. >> Or a half Nelson? >> Uh that is something if you stopped looking at violence in 1980s WWF, then yes, what you just [laughter] did would be realistic. >> Yeah, that's not a thing. >> I mean, I made Brent Bonner pass out on the school bus accidentally by [laughter] doing that to him. >> Dagan's going to be like, "I'm going to give him the iron claw." Brent's the manimal claw. The mankind's going to pull Sakou out of his >> Apologize, [laughter] Brent. >> Uh well, hey, on the next break, I'll show you the difference between a rear naked choke and what you just [laughter] >> Last time you were here, we did neon belly while this was going on. >> We did. >> I did. >> You know what? And I think and I literally just got over that yesterday. >> For the sake of science, how about you and I go off camera, we'll let these two hang it out real quick, and I'll just show you the difference. >> No, Howard. >> FOR THE SAKE [laughter] OF SCIENCE. >> Let's just do it. Let's go, Dagan. >> like science? >> Let's go, Dagan. Do you believe in science? >> Science is science. >> I'm going to actually let you off the hook. I can't do that right now. I couldn't squeeze anything with this little baby >> I believe you. I can squeeze. >> I believe you. >> You're going to do the one that he said, the little pink >> I wouldn't do that for you, but >> Hey, I actually had that happen to me. It is not pleasant. >> I have I can I I guarantee you I could probably make him pass out. >> Anybody can make a human being pass out. Hey, funny story about that. I'm teaching a jujitsu a kids jujitsu class in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. This is a year or two ago. And so, these are little kids. I mean, it was a mixed class, but everything from like 4-year-olds up to like 16-year-olds. And so, everybody wanted to roll with me after class. And so, I'm rolling with the kids, and I'm kind of going in this sweet, pretty little, you know, uh cute blonde girl or all that. She's maybe four, right? She's tiny. How old How old How much does Evie weigh? >> Like 40 lbs. >> 40 lbs. 35 40 lbs. >> Yeah, less less than your daughter cuz she was younger than Evie is right now. And I'm you know, we're doing the ghee, and so, I'm letting them do stuff and like get to certain positions. If I'm lying, I'm dying, that girl almost put me out cold. Because I was [laughter] in I let her get a collar choke in, and I'm telling her, "Hey, you know, put your elbow here and pull your arm." And like the tunnel is closing. >> [laughter] >> But as I've said a million times on the show, the tunnel does not always close at the same speed. Sometimes it's like, "Oh, yeah, tunnel's closing. Just be careful." Just wham, and then it just all of a sudden closes. It was whamming shut before I tapped, and I just like came back, and I'm like, "I've never been choked out conscious [laughter] in jujitsu ever, and I've rolled with like these freak beast guys." And this little sweet little girl almost put me out in front of all the kids I just taught. >> She's She's She's my favorite person right now. >> [laughter] >> She's one of my favorite people I know. >> I wish I could meet her. I'm be like >> You know what I think Ryan's doing? I think Ryan is secretly behind the scenes >> [clears throat] >> preparing for one day to catch you off guard. >> Uh so what are the Well, I will say Ryan >> 10 lb so he's gained muscle, [laughter] man. >> Yeah, he's gained 10 lb of what? >> Yeah, he's gained muscle, man. >> No, it's not muscle. >> Hey, we've brought up a million times on the show about the fat shaming I've delivered you. Do I need to start that? Do I need to like get that back going? >> I was I went to the doctor and the doctor was like, "Hey, everything else looks good. You just gained 10 lb." And I was like, "Yeah." >> Yeah, you were supposed to be on the the downward >> Yeah, I know, but we're men. It fluctuates 6 lb give or take. >> Yeah, I was like >> Don't be like, "Oh, we're talking about Ryan." >> I'll lose [laughter] that 10 lb I'll lose that 10 lb in like 30 days. So, I just I had >> Ooh. Sounds like the excuse train is is backing up into the station. >> It's like kind of hard to work out when you had pink eye for about a week and a half. >> You have been sick for the last two and a half >> It's definitely that week and a half that >> No, but I mean that played a role. I mean I wasn't like working out as much and I was eating more. >> there's going to be a point he's going to surprise you. >> Dude. >> Well, he has been ever since this happened. >> We were out smoking cigars. I was like, "I gained 10 lb." >> Ever since this happened to my arm, Ryan has invited himself to fight me about six or seven times. And he's not the only one. He's He's He's not the only one that's done that. But just as a reminder my short-term memory's terrible, my long-term memory's fantastic. And so it's like I've got a list I've got a running list of individuals that >> "Kelsey, how's it feel to have a bigger arm than Kyle over there?" >> [laughter] >> Kyle's like the guy on What was >> Was it Happy Gilmore? >> I was like, "You got You got the names on the walls?" >> No, that was the Billy Madison. Billy Madison. >> Yeah, does he have Does he have the lipstick tail? >> [laughter] >> I like the cure. >> And then I then I put it on. No, that's going to be the thing. I'm going to dress up as a whenever you and I fight. And it's going to You're going to have the visual of a bearded [laughter] man holding you down against your will like we're hanging out at Disney World or something like that. Speaking of Disney World, why does anybody Why does everybody take their kids to Disney and continue to give Disney their money when they clearly hate you, your children, and your values. Why do people keep doing that? What's wrong with everybody? I'm mad today. >> Why you mad? What's wrong with everybody? >> It's just I'm fired up. I can't spike my >> mad at Disney, man? It's a >> happy place. >> What do they say? Yeah. >> It's the happiest place on Earth. >> I don't know. Is it? >> Yeah. >> bearded ladies that are like teaching your little girls cuz there's obviously nothing sexual going on with those bearded men that love to watch themselves dressed up as women. >> Hey, when I was at Disney the last time and the first time first time and the last time, there was no bearded women. They were talking about the story of Jesus. >> Who? >> The The it was Christmas time and they were telling stories about the birth of Jesus on one of the exhibits. I kid you not. >> All right, so I guess the rest of the time we can support autogynephilia, which is grown men that are sexually aroused by themselves dressed up as women because once a year they utter the words Jesus. >> When did that happen on Disney? >> [sighs] >> The autogynephilia. >> The bearded You want me to literally bring up It was like It was the princess play place thing where you got You could pay like $74,000 and your daughter would get to go in for a half hour and get her makeup done by a real princess. The The princesses were men. >> I guess I didn't know about that. >> Are y'all kidding me? >> Was it pride month? Like all I don't think that matters. The princesses were men. All the princesses >> that were in the workshop where there were at least two that were in this video. Even if there was one for one session, that gives you an idea as to where you're spending your money, though. >> I mean, what don't we spend our money on? >> Is that what we're going to do? >> different kinds of things. >> We're going to do just generalities now? Like, "Oh, we spend our money on everything." Like everything's bad. Everything >> I mean, but >> I mean, like there's the evil you know and then the evil you don't. >> It's like but [clears throat] then I can I can I can still go and like >> Disney has certain things. >> Disney has a lot of history. I mean, all of us grew up as as kids >> there's definitely only one way to entertain kids. It's just Disney movies and Disneyland. There's no other >> I mean, we do things, right, Dagan? >> We We do. >> That's exclusively American entertainment. >> That's the only thing kids are allowed to to watch is 2D plus and >> Hey, I mean look at >> [laughter] >> it's everywhere. >> Look at Angel Studios. >> I'm calling out that Animal [clears throat] Farm movie that they just released with Andy Serkis. >> I didn't watch it either. >> Andy Serkis directed it. The guy that does like all the >> Based on the book? >> He's the dude that played This this isn't based on the book, is it? Right? >> based on the book. I mean >> It's got the title of the book, but it's got Seth Rogen in it. Is that the one? >> in it. >> Yeah, it's not even >> closest to the book. >> Snowball's played by a trans woman and Jim Parsons, who's open openly homosexual, >> Mhm. >> he plays a character's voice in it and Angel produced it. >> Don't like that? >> Yeah, do you have Do you have Angel? Do you have Angel? >> I did, but >> For free. >> For free. >> But [laughter] >> For what? >> Just saying. >> For free. >> I'm just saying. Like >> All right, so basically Ryan is moved into the curmudgeon stage of his life where no one can have nice things. You're joining me. I'm bringing [laughter] you over into my world, baby. >> saying. I mean, at least Disney at least Disney's not saying they're Christian, you know, but Angel is. >> they just have an openly gay agenda for your children because someone said that on a hot mic. >> than private and covered with Jesus. >> So, but the fact that it's open and you're allowing your kids to be exposed to it is the problem. Because someone underhandedly exposes something to you, but it's the evil you know. Why would you let your kids be exposed to that content? >> not the evil you know, it's the evil you trust. >> No, it's the evil You trust them by putting your kids in front >> No, because I know what I know what Disney has. >> and the >> Here's the Here's the thing. Yes. >> I know I know what Disney does and I know what Disney's what their role is or what they're trying to do. So, I can be cognizant of what Disney's Disney shows and what my kids can watch. But when you have somebody like Angel Studios, who's supposed to have the guise of like Christian production and they do something like that, I'd rather I'd rather know who my enemy is than that my enemy is my friend. >> you know someone's your enemy, you don't give them access to your children. They literally one of their executives was caught on a on a mic saying they have a not so secret gay agenda. That's why they're sneaking in LGBTQ content into all their stuff. So and so why in the world would you expose them to Disney materials? Cuz guess what? You let them watch Snow White, which doesn't have any of that, and then what else does the algorithm tell them to do? And oh, by the way, all of Pride Month Disney Plus is celebrating the pride flag and the pride progress. >> I think it depends on what you're exposing them to. Are we talking about taking them to a theme park where we ride rides, or are we talking about parking them in front of Disney's subscribing service and making them watch Disney shows? >> to Disneyland that doesn't have Disney Plus? >> So, I have >> Okay, there's one one person that exists. >> have Disney Plus because I have Hulu. But, here's the thing you have to look at. I don't My kids don't have access to just go watch Disney Plus whenever they want. I have to know what they're watching on Disney Plus. And if they're If Disney Plus is on, it's usually Bluey. >> And you're sitting there watching it with them the whole time? >> Most of the time, yeah. >> Most of the time or all the time? >> I'm watching Bluey with them while I'm cooking or in the in the kitchen, and then Bluey's on in the background. >> that's the whole thing with the evil that you know. If you know the entity has a not so secret gay agenda, it's like knowing there's a rattlesnake in your house and just assuming it's never going to bite your kid. It's like, okay, that's that's a that's a plan. It's just not a good [clears throat] one. It's not one that I would allow. >> What about YouTube? What about Facebook? What about any of those? >> Yeah. Well, yeah, I would never Like, why in the world would I give my children unfettered access to that? >> That's what we're saying. We wouldn't give our kids access to Disney, but like I said, I would take my kids to Disney, but like, if we're talking about are you going to completely disconnect because they have a evil agenda, or are you just saying like, we have to be careful with what we do? So, YouTube, Facebook, all of that, they have an agenda to get you addicted to their platform, right? And anything that they expose you to, do would you separate yourself from Facebook completely or Instagram knowing that they had a evil desire to make you addicted to things? >> When you're talking about your children, I would not give my children access unfettered access to those things. >> Yeah, I think that's what Ryan's saying. We don't give We wouldn't give our kids unfettered access to anything that Disney has to do with. But >> The difference being with Meta and with YouTube, those are those are not controlled platforms by a single entity. What I mean by that is because we can upload this video to YouTube. We can't upload this to Disney Plus. And so there are plenty of things on YouTube that aren't going to have uh aren't going to have direct messaging issues. But the entirety of Disney, you have all these zealots that are part of all the different content creation arms of what they're doing. >> But YouTube blocks things that they don't like. >> YouTube blocks things they don't like. Don't they? >> They can if things are like if if they you know, hit they have their stupid hate speech things or all that, but the point being is it's an open platform for people to be able to post things. Now, they can act as a moderator and take the things off that they don't want, which I'm personally not a fan of. If if it's going to be open to some people, it should be open to all people. But at the same time with Disney Plus, they are in control of everything that is put on their platform, right? YouTube, people can just upload there there are literally billions of videos on YouTube. The with Disney Plus it's just not the same thing. >> Yeah, I feel like that's made our society a lot stupider. >> Oh, 100%. >> I mean like the fact that [clears throat] like kids are like glorifying these like I don't know what you call them, influencers and stuff that they're making a buck off YouTube. It's like it's so obnoxious. I'm like, why? I don't let my kids watch YouTube. >> Yeah. >> I try to not to like the Dude Perfect guys, I'll let them watch every once in a while. But other than that, I was like YouTube just ugh. >> And part of thing you have to be worried about the ads as well. There was when the boys were teeny tiny, we were watching I don't know what it was, but it was a kid show on YouTube. And literally, the reason why I got an an ad-free account was because in the middle of a kid a kid show that was for like three and under. >> Mhm. >> An ad came on, and it was an entire music video of like this Atlanta rapper. And there's like women on on cars like dancing with their butt cheeks hanging out. Like and it was This was an ad that was placed into something like that. And luckily, I was looking at it immediately and saw like, "Oh, I know where this is going." >> Yeah. >> And then like was able to kind of skip through that. But when you kind of disengage from the content that your kids are consuming at all, and someone one of those things slips in, becomes a a little bit of an issue. >> I mean, we were watching the Western Conference Finals with the Thunder. And the advertisements in between, like I literally like I was on guard the entire time. And it was like, "Close your eyes, boys. Close your I like I mean, it's just crazy being exposed to that. >> Well, something to really think about is is that it's our job to take care of our kids. It's our job to disciple our kids. It's our job to make sure we keep our kids from watching things that they shouldn't watch. And so therefore, we shouldn't live in fear like slaves. >> Yeah. I my >> That was a segue into that. >> That was a segue into what we were just going to talk about. >> wasn't very silky, so that's why Dagan went ahead and >> It [laughter] wasn't very silky. >> Um my middle daughter uh when she went to we we're in public school here in Edmond. And when she went to middle school, I picked her up from middle school, you know, my little sixth grade middle daughter. And uh >> [clears throat] >> driving home, and it's like, "Tell me about your first day of school." And she's talking to me about it. And I was like, "Well, what's the biggest difference between middle school and elementary school?" And she kind of thought a little bit, and she said, "Um they say the F-word in middle school." >> Oh, wow. >> Like she's in sixth grade, right? And it's like, "What?" But I like I'm I know that they say the there are kids that say the F word in private school. There are home school kids that say the F word, right? It's like it's my job as the parent to, you know, to help guide her and parent her through the reality of living in this world. She can't go anywhere in this world without coming into contact with brokenness. >> Yeah. >> Her husband will make massive mistakes because of his sin and brokenness, right? And it doesn't mean that you leave him because but and I I get what you're saying it's an entire entity, but I feel like it's just more I feel more responsibility as me as the parent to to do what I can to protect them, but be prepared to coach them through it when stuff falls through the cracks. When they go to school and I can't I know I can't go to school with them. >> Which is essentially not even preparing to be able to coach them through it. It's preparing them when you're not there to coach them through anything. >> That's right. It's like setting them up. The big the issue that I've I've found with when I've talked to a lot of people about this and I mentioned it on the show but with um when I hear parents talk about how they're sending their kids into schools, whether it's public school or Christian school, as missionaries. >> Yeah. >> And it's like, "Oh, that's just their mission [laughter] field." It's like time out. >> Listen to my ear hole to be able >> Pick up a Bible and find find me a single story in the New Testament of a child being equipped for the mission of the work of the gospel. >> Yeah. >> You won't be able to find it because that's not a thing, right? The closest you'll get is whenever God saves entire households, right? Cuz we we get that sense from scripture that God loves to save entire families. Uh but this idea like they are not a like anyone that is sent out was equipped before they were sent out. And there's there are no children in that. That does not mean that a child cannot share the gospel and have positive influences on their friends or whatever when they're in those school settings, but I I found that to be a an unsatisfactory reason that I've heard with people that are like, "Oh, well, you know what? They're going to be exposed to it anyway, so we're just going to kind of lean into it and then just kind of hope they make the right decisions." But there's going to be a riot in the comments section if we don't get into Romans. Ryan, I can't believe you made us go down this road. You brought up every single thing cuz you just knew You just knew it would trigger me, right? I'm very easily triggered, right? It's part of my ginger It's part of my ginger heritage, right? It's kind of one of those things no skin pigment and obviously angry at any the drop of a hat. And that there is no transition of worthy of that, but last time I tried to Yeah, we'll do our best. Last time we got through Romans 8:14 and so we're going to get into starting with Romans 8:15, but one thing that I did just want to kind of reiterate as as we've all discovered, I guess with how we've approached Romans, you could kind of get lost in the words at a time, chunks at a time, like, you know, phrases at a time. You kind of get lost in the entire narrative, so it is good to to back up from time to time. What version of the Bible is this? >> This is NLT. [laughter] >> Okay. Does this have section headers? >> Uh yes. >> Okay. So, there's certain Bibles, so NLT, ESV has great section headers. >> They're the same as ESV. >> They they do. Okay. And so, we're going to back up and we're going to read 12 through 15 and then we're going to start our discussion in 15. So, Dagan, if you will Are you going to be reading >> ESV. >> ESV. Okay, we're going to start in Romans 8:12 and then we're going to park in 15 to start our discussion. >> Verse 12. So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba, Father." >> So guys, I just got to tell you, I think um there's so much meaning just in 15 that if you're doing a cursory reading, I know some people kind of talk down on commentaries and you know, listen to other people's interpretations of things and I and I understand it's somewhat well-founded to to give that as a caution. But Abba Father, we've heard that before, but that that is such an intimate title whenever you're you're talking about Father. And then when he says, you know, the spirit of adoption, when you go back to this time period in Galilee, when you go into the rest of the the Roman world, when you were adopted, you had the exact same familial rights as a biological child. The exact same. Right? And the thing about this adoption is it's God adopting us. So most kids can't control their adoption, like what family they're adopted by. This kid kind of get into some of the tulip stuff, but it's like, okay, how much can you control whether or not God chose you, right, as part of the elect, right? Certainly when we get into 9 and 10, we'll we'll we'll get into that a lot deeper. But that's the big thing for me to where, you know, almost every commentary I read harped on adoption, adoption, adoption being equal with being, you know, a firstborn biological son and just how big that is. >> One thing that's, you know, kind of personal to me, it's like my sister adopted my sister and brother-in-law adopted two kids. It's probably going on eight years ago now. And as I was studying this, just some memories came back from that whole process. And as I was reading, it said it required seven reputable people to be there when there was an adoption in these days. And so [clears throat] it just it was so reminiscent of when they went through the official process in front of the judge with with all of the family. My my sister and brother-in-law invited a lot of close personal friends. And so it just made me think of that time of like when you go through a process like that bringing new people into your family that you would have others like that there, especially somebody reputable. And so for us it was such an intimate time to be welcoming two new people into our family, right? And then I know, you know, we'll we'll talk about this part of like, you know, cuz Paul's talking about you can't God's not going to lose you right? >> And so I I think back to my sister and my brother-in-law there's nothing they're going to do that is going to, you know, separate them even though they're adopted. But I just I love that pro- that thought about seven reputable people. So yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, I think >> Go ahead. >> No, Dagon after you. >> Dagon [clears throat] has his own camera this time, so he wins the default battle. >> I [laughter] was going to give it to him anyways. I run my mouth too much. >> You know, I I I read this and I think like as as somebody who when when I accept Jesus, like I am I am as an eight, nine year old Dagon hearing the gospel and thinking, oh, when I, you know, when I die I want to go to heaven. And I in order to do that I have to have Jesus die for my sins. It was all about the forgiveness part. >> Mhm. >> It was all about like I it was the criminality that I was severing from myself by but and I think God could have for- God could have used Jesus to forgive us, but he didn't have to adopt us. >> You know what I mean? It's like >> It's like It's like not only did I get forgiven and I got severed from this criminality that was my identity. He adopted me as Jesus' brother and heir to the throne. >> Well, that is crazy. >> At great cost to the Father. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> the adoption was at a great cost to him because we see him here calling like sons. It's we're all descendants of God, but we're not all sons of God, but all the sons of God are adopted ones. And again, that's the one thing I try to remind myself is it's Oh man, this this cost him like he did not spare his one and only son. >> Well, that's where it comes down to. It's like your firstborn is James, right? That's like you giving up James's life to save all of our kids. >> Yeah, and that and that Yeah, and take it back to Genesis with Abraham and Isaac. Like just think about that. >> That's what we have to look at and like we look at adoption, but we don't look at heirs. And that's one thing that we have to look at in the >> Heirs or errors? >> Errors. H E I R S, did I spell that right? >> Yep, nailed it. >> Um so, I was going to have to say sorry, Joey, if I did. >> We [laughter] haven't done that in a while. We we never got our sorry, Joey, but don't don't lose track. >> But no, so when we're adopted in, we have to go back to that Roman life, that Roman culture. The Roman culture was if you were adopted in, you were one of the kids, but when somebody died, like the father, everybody shared um the uh I want I don't want to say profits. They shared the inheritance. So, rather than in Jewish culture, when somebody died or when the father died, the oldest got the inheritance and everybody else was on their own. In Roman culture, everybody got the inheritance who was a part, and that's where he kind of brings the story around of why we're adopted into that. >> Yeah, I was reading a commentary from Tim Keller about this section as well, and I I thought it was great. Like adoption is not something that we can earn, it's given. And again, when you start looking through a certain lenses, everything you see is going to be a confirmation. There's a confirmation bias and like, "Oh, there's a passage that agrees with exactly what I agree with. I'm still smart. I'm even smarter now." But I mean, when when you start looking at, you know, reformed theology or different things like that, it's like, "Okay, the adoption being talked about here, like what kid do you know of that earned the adoption of their adopted parents? Like, you know, your family member that adopted it. Like what did that kid do to earn that? >> Nothing. >> Angels in the Outfield. He like yeah. >> [laughter] >> He saw the angels. Disney ruined it again. >> Oh, no. >> Well, we're but what you meant for evil God's going to use for good cuz I have a >> [laughter] >> great I have a great Angels in the outfield story and I think I don't know if we've told this on the show before but Matt Grassmeyer can can attest to this. We're at a cuz we're three so it's right now the the AAA team in Oklahoma City it's Oklahoma City Comets ridiculous stupid name. Then it before that it was the Oklahoma City Dodgers and before that it was the Redhawks. Was there one before that? >> The Drillers. >> Drillers? >> 89ers. >> That's Tulsa as well. >> No, 89ers was Oklahoma but that was over at the fairgrounds. >> Let's just say Redhawks and so we're we're there like it's me and my college crew. We're we're there we're watching the game and there's almost nobody there and so we're able to move down behind home plate or whatever. And for whatever reason we just decide for this one at bat we're going to do the Angels in the outfield thing where we start you know where this is going right? And so [clears throat] AAA games toward the end of the game like the game's out of hand I don't even remember who was winning and so we start doing the you know we're what flapping our wings and at the time I had two normal sized arms and so I wasn't like you know a bird that was only going to fly to the bird that [laughter] was only going to fly to the left in one circle and if I'm lying I'm dying. The very next pitch the guy hits a screamer to left field and it was one of those where the moment it left the bat the sound and the angle that it launched at you knew it was gone. Before it was 10 ft off of his bat you knew this thing was long gone and it was long gone and we lost it. We absolutely lost our minds. We did that. There's no other explanation [laughter] that can explain what happened. That was our home run. We weren't happy with it but >> If you were middle schoolers the manager probably would have adopted you guys. >> Yeah and maybe let us be the manager right? So >> That was a little big league. >> Little big league okay. I don't even know where we were going with that but there's your >> But we were talking about being adopted and not earning adoption. We it's given, so. >> Well, that's that's one of the things whenever I look at um you know, you look at total depravity, unconditional election, uh limited atonement, irresistible grace, uh perseverance of the saints. We'll get into some perseverance of the saints stuff here in the next few weeks, but I mean um irresistible grace and you know, what what that looks like, what that means, how that works out in normal everyday parlance. It's like you know, the the adopted kid doesn't reject the adopted parents, right? That's just not really something that you see. There's >> Oh, yeah. >> It's it's reminds me of what MacArthur would say a lot towards the end of his life to where it's like the fact that I was picked. >> Mhm. >> that I was adopted, that I was imputed with the righteousness of Christ, I can't get over it. >> Yeah. >> It's absolutely overwhelming. And when you see these videos of these kids getting adopted, they're at the courtroom and the judge is crying, the parents are crying, the kids are crying. >> I'm crying watching it. >> Exactly. And I'm you know, like as the kid you're like, man, they're picked and you know, kind of a lesser lesser uh you know, creation version of that. When you see a happy dog get picked from the pound right? >> [laughter] >> And they're going home with an owner and they're just waggy tailed when 5 seconds ago they were in the corner like whimpering. It's it's that same kind of thing, but it didn't have anything to do with the righteousness of the kid or the dog. It was the person that picked them, right? Or the institution that picked them. >> Yeah. >> Um let's go ahead and uh let's read 16 and 17 and then we'll we'll keep we'll do our discussion of 12 through 17. So, Howard, uh go ahead and read 16 and 17 and which version are you going to be reading from? >> ESV. >> ESV, here we go. >> 16 and 17. The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. >> And so really we are we're in a privileged position to be in Christ, but there's this tacit assumption that that means we're exempt from suffering. And I don't know where that idea came from. I can't like exactly put my finger on it, but you know, that right there it's like we will suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. So, the suffering is an expectation, but I feel like for a lot of parts of Christendom, that seems like anathema. It seems like exactly the opposite of how people are operating. >> It's the word of faith movement. >> Can you talk a little bit more about that cuz you have more understanding of that than I do as well? >> movement means like, you know, if as long as you pray for and you're and you're holy enough and you pray for healing and and money, I wouldn't say money, but finances and stuff like that, God's going to give it to you. So, as long as you speak it and believe it, you'll get it. So, if you speak the word and you have the faith, >> Mhm. >> it'll all come unto you. So, why would why would why would why would you speak for suffering or bad things? >> Please, go ahead. >> So, this is going backward maybe a little bit, but as you're as we're starting to come into this conversation about the the suffering that we go through, I want to hit on 14 because I was reading in MacArthur's commentary kind of talking about for those who are led by the spirit, right? And so, if we're talking about going into the suffering, it's like are we going into the suffering being led by the spirit? And the two points that MacArthur really made as I was reading this as he said the the illumination of scripture that the spirit leads us in, right? Because so many times we're led by feelings and when we get into suffering and when we get into decisions and things like that, if we aren't uh if the Holy Spirit isn't leading us, we're going to be controlled by emotions and feelings, right? And we know how far we can go when we let our feelings lead us in so many different things, right? How many of the men that went into these countries as missionaries that if they would have just stopped in the suffering because they felt bad or, you know, I just don't have the right feeling about this. No, they they the spirit led them through scripture and through the sanctification process that he's going through and I think so many times we as people just are led by feelings and not by what the scripture says and allowing the spirit to lead. >> Absolutely. I It makes me think of like talking about suffering and suffering as Christ did. And that brings us back to the gospel. And the gospel was what? Self-sacrifice. And that's the suffering we have to walk sometimes. It's like, "Hey, my wife may not be in the best mood and she's probably getting on my nerves, but am I going to allow that to be known and throw out my feelings or am I going to sacrifice to this moment and just say, "You know what? I'm going to be with her in this moment. I'm going to try to do my best to like just make this day go by quicker." And hopefully it changes her heart. So, it's how do we self-sacrifice? And I think that's what he's talking about in suffering sometimes. >> What are you doing earlier in chapter 8? I mean, you get into that first first chunk of chapter 8 where it's talking about you know, those who are in the flesh cannot please God, right? Those that are like their minds are set on the things of the flesh as opposed to the things of the spirit. It's like we're that's that's up in in all this as well. >> Well, I [clears throat] I spoke at at Faith Bible for the high school a few months ago and I was given two options to choose from and I chose 1 Peter and I realized I'm talking basically about suffering for 10 weeks to high school kids. 10 10 It was a 10-week deal. So, but really what we I think I think it it it's a conflict that like non-Christians look at Christians and think, "Well, why would why do why does it pay off to believe anything that you believe? Your life is no better than mine, right?" I think that there is this perception that if you're a Christian that your life is better in ways that are from an earthly perspective make sense, right? That you that you don't have as that you don't have the same struggles that like, you know, that you um that you're kind of saved from that. And it's like, well, you know, in 1 Peter he's talking to people and I love it he he calls everybody out. He's he's writing this letter to people who are scattered around this Roman Empire and they're living in weird places, but he's like, you you don't feel weird because you're living in a place that you didn't grow up in. You feel weird because you belong to Jesus and heaven and this place is not your home. And you are he calls them elect exiles. He's like, you're an exile to this place. It's never going to feel right. Like So and and instead of like pointing out to their suffering and and I I read this great commentary and it said if you want to make a suffering person go into depression, have them focus on their suffering. >> For sure. >> That's what >> inwardly on themselves as well. >> Well, it goes back to verse 15, "For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear." And so when we think about the flesh and being a slave to the flesh, what do we fear? We fear death. We fear dying. We fear like this is all we have and this is how it's going to end. But we're heirs to Christ and we're going to be with him in the glory at a glorified with him in the end. And so we have something to look forward to as heirs. >> Well, and I think we we even fear simpler things than death. I think we fear abandonment. We fear outcast. We fear being the weird one in the room that that is standing up for something and everybody is pointing at them and they're like, "You're an idiot." Like we fear social being a social outcast. Like there's all these little things in life that we fear that we don't have to fear anymore. >> Because it's like, hey, like I I'm fine being weird. I'm fine being the weird one because I I know what I know what is coming for me and me being weird in this moment has no bearing on on my future. >> I feel like this whole this whole chapter is a we'll even get into it in 31 about being weird and being different, you know? And so it's just like, yeah, we're going to be different, but we have to have faith in in Christ's sacrifice and that's what he wants us to recognize through this this passage that we're no longer slaves to flesh, we're slaves to God. >> Well, Ryan, it's interesting you bring that up because I don't know if it'll come out after this or before this, but uh on a recent Ask Pastor with Joby I asked him, I'm like, um if Christians believe honestly that we have eternal glory coming our direction, right? And we will be glorified and we're going to be in in heaven and then we'll be in the in the new heavens and the new earth and glorified bodies and all things and we're going to do that for eternity, why do Christians seem so uh eager to cling on to life? To cling on to their mortal coil and what I don't mean is that, you know, Christians should be flippant with their lives and, you know, bring natural death on further and not take care of themselves and take unnecessary risks. That's not what I'm saying. >> Gain 10 lbs. >> Uh yeah, that's an unnecessary risk. All right, so we we're [laughter] going to we're going to start fixing that and we're going to fix that today. I will eat your lunch for you, okay? >> You can eat my lunch. >> Um I will give you >> I was actually not looking forward to eating cuz uh yeah. >> A blade of grass is what you were going to get for for dinner uh this evening. >> Kyle's favorite meal, a salad. >> But yeah, certainly, but like I it I've thought about that a lot to where you see And again, I think there's there's fear like obviously cuz whenever you die, typically people only die once, and so it's not something like, oh, I've experienced that before, that was uncomfortable, but I'll get through it or that was uncomfortable and I may not make it. It's just whenever you get to one of these places where you're staring at the Grim Reaper. And cuz some people die suddenly, some people die very slowly and they know it's coming, right? You you have stage three or four cancer and it's not going to kill you today, but it may kill you next week, it may kill you 10 years from now, but it's coming for you. And so you're having to reckon with what's directly in front of you and the the desperate clinging to life. Um it's it's it's confusing to me while at the same time I understand having never been in their position. Like I'm I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong or sinful, but it it is confusing to me if if we if we know kind of how this all ends. >> I've grown up like in a Christian household and I was a I was a hypochondriac and I always had a fear of death. Like you can ask Rachel. When we were first married, I was afraid I was always dying of something. And then finally when my eyes were opened to the beauty of the gospel, when I actually understood the gospel and I understood what Christ did for us, I can tell you I don't have a fear of dying anymore. It's really weird. It's like I don't fear like, all right, if I die, like parts of me are like, man, if I die, my kids are going to grow up without a dad. You know, I don't want that, you know, but do do I have faith that God will take care of them? Absolutely. But it's like I don't have that fear of death that I used to have. I used to have a fear of death that would keep me up at night, that would make me sick to my stomach and would just create anxiety. But that like once I became a Christian, I literally lost that anxiety when I understood what Christ did for me. And like now it's just like, if I die, you know, yeah, it's going to suck for a few people. I mean, Kyle gets my dog and my you know, but but >> I'm not hoping for that. It's just one of the >> one of the many >> several positives >> positives that come out of me dying, you know, but but I'm just saying like I'm not scared of it anymore. But I totally get the feeling of somebody who says they believe in Christ and you know Christ and they're probably somewhere in their walk. Like I was earlier in my life. It's a part of sanctification and and just because like if you have a fear of death, it doesn't mean you're not saved. So don't take what I'm saying to to say that. >> Right. But I think it's normal to to like we we know living. I know what it means to be with in a home with my wife and my three kids. Like it's a known thing to me. Um and I love it. And I love my kids and I love my wife and I I um I got I got trapped. I'm not going to tell you how I got there this morning, but this morning I ended up through this kind of weird series of events watching the my dad's funeral, watching the video of my dad's funeral today. It was a completely normal way of how I got there. Um and God obviously took me on that and I watched it and I had this conversation with my wife this this morning. I said, you know, I I know that heaven is better. You know, when Paul in in in 18, which kind of dovetails into what we're talking about, he says, "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed to us." I know and I believe that that's right. The literally the last words my dad said to me was, "We you need to let Jesus be in charge." That's the last the last words I ever heard him say. And I know that there was something going on with him in that moment where he was the most confident in Jesus as he'd ever been. And I know it's true, but I had this feeling this morning of watching this funeral of like and I told Michelle, I was like, "I'm there's a part of me that's scared to not have this." But it's because of what I know. But I think that's okay. I think I think that's a I think that's okay as long as that's not >> Yeah. >> you know, as long as you don't live in that space. Um >> One part of the Jesus being in control part and thank you for for sharing that. Um how would we actually read verse 18 cuz I think this this gets in as we're wrapping this discussion up. >> For I consider the suffering of this present time are present time are not worth comparing to the glory that is revealed and to be revealed in us. >> So, um our pastor Mark Hitchcock said something to this effect, I don't know, a couple months ago by the time this airs. But most of the time people see their salvation as a past tense thing. >> Mhm. >> Oh, when I was at church camp when I was seven. Or you know, some people just realize one day like, "No, I believe all this stuff. Like I'm saved." And then some people have the exact date, time, location, like how much snot was coming out of their nose cuz of how badly they were crying. Like all that. But regardless of the circumstances, I think we all kind of categorize it as a past thing. But our salvation is literally past, present, and future. >> Mhm. >> So, in the past, that is our justification. Like when we received Christ and were imputed with his righteousness and received the Holy Spirit, we are justified in that moment, past tense. But we are also being saved, present tense, which is our sanctification. Which is our journey, which is why we should be very careful to castigate new Christians. Uh now, if you're a new Christian, no, you don't need to be standing up in front of people at a Christian conference teaching the Bible. That's not your role. You know, kind of, you know, slowly roll a little bit. But that's our sanctification journey, which is the whole way until natural death or the the rapture of some kind. And so, the future be our we are going to be saved is our glorification. So, past, present, future, justification, sanctification glorification. And I think when people get to where your dad was or these people that have finished well, they finished whatever their fourth quarter was well, they weren't thinking about when they were justified, they weren't as concerned about their sanctification journey, they were just looking forward to glory. >> Mhm. >> And I think that that's such an important thing, especially in in reference to this, because I mean, the the section head in the ESV is future glory. And the first verse is verse 18. And what is future glory? That is our hope. >> Yeah. >> That is what we can put our hope into. And it's just an incredible thing to remember. >> Well, and too many people live as though glory, their future glory, is to be made here on Earth. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Right? Like too many just There's too many things that they've put their hope in that can't return anything. >> Cuz glory is forever and all the things you would just categorize, Dagan, they're all temporary. >> Right. >> But we're never going to see true holiness on this earth. I mean, the only holiness we're ever going to see on this earth is when Jesus comes back. So, us trying to create that holiness is futile. So, we've got to We've just got to be able to hold on to what the truth is and and and wait and not be fearful. >> Yeah. When When Paul I I love what he does here and and I think a lot of people read this and they and they can kind of misread it. Um he uses the word consider in verse 18. For I consider, so I read that and think, okay, well, he's putting some thought behind what he's about to say, right? Like he's weighing it. It's not like my opinion is, he's like, I consider and I'm kind of weighing this that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed to come. I I I've read in a couple different places and I've heard some some great comments on like Paul is not minimizing suffering. >> Yeah. >> He is maximizing glory. Right? Paul is not saying, hey, the hurt that you have in life, it's stupid and small and it's no big deal and you're a baby, right? He's He's just saying, in comparison to glory, it doesn't matter the size of the suffering. >> Yeah. >> Well, and the word So, I looked it up on Logos, which by the way, if you want to have a game-changer, I know you all heard the ad for Logos probably at the beginning of this, their new AI function is just spectacular. It's called Study Assistant. So, like, please don't get your exegesis from ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini, [laughter] for the love of God. Um you know, go to something like this cuz it uses the materials inside of Logos to to give the answer. But I looked up the word consider and it's uh logizomai, which is to calculate, to consider, to think about, to believe. >> Yeah. >> All verbs, right? And so, like, that that is the posture of Paul here is that he he is calculating the suffering. >> Mhm. >> So, think about it. You have calculated the past suffering, the present suffering, and your your you know >> Yeah. >> Well, >> You're doing a pro forma for what you think it's going to be. >> Yeah, that's what I was >> Look at the Christian church in Rome. How did they suffer? I mean, they're people were Roman candle, where did Roman candle come from? >> Oh, was that whenever they were lit? >> They would They would place Christians >> Christians on fire >> for Nero and >> Yeah. >> and Caligula >> to to light up the streets. >> Mhm. >> And so, like this is what's going down at this time. And like this is the suffering they're dealing with. Our suffering is like getting chastised by Kyle for watching Disney. >> You know what I'm saying? >> how dare you? Sinner, sinner, [laughter] sinner. But no, like in all seriousness, like your point, that's one of the best arguments that I've seen in all of Christian apologetics, which is explain how Christianity survived 1st century Rome. >> Yeah. >> Explain that. >> Yeah. >> Like the the emperor, the Caesars, the the the the the Senate, everybody was against Christianity, and it was a small sect >> Mhm. >> of controllable people. Right? This wasn't I mean, it wasn't like uh I'm just trying to think of the guy that was the the main order during that time period. Uh anyway, it was a senator. Uh anyway, it slipped my mind. But like, it wasn't like these powerful people at the time were were being converted, and then all those types of things. Really, the first time we really see something like that is with Emperor Constantine. >> Yep. >> It's not nearly [clears throat] as uh controversial as some people make that out to be. Uh some people think that was a political calculation. >> Mhm. >> Um but like, that that's one of the interesting things to consider as well. It's like, okay, you're an atheist, uh you're a skeptic, you're whatever. Just give me a plausible explanation for how this wasn't stomped out. >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, and how how the the people that Paul >> Cicero, by the way. >> Sorry. >> That's what I was trying to think >> that started the church in Rome, right? It was like a girl that was formerly possessed. It was like a guy that was formerly like a prison guard, like, you know, and then it was like a business woman or something. It was like It was like the You talk about the ragtag. It was, you know, and that That's That was the foundational you know, that was the little committee that started the the the movement. >> have been the ones you would have chosen right? >> No. >> Well, guys, uh this has been a great discussion on this. Uh thanks for indulging me at the beginning when I was angry at the entire world, but that's okay. Next week we'll see if we can come back and get better. I don't want to be the the biggest Debbie Downer on the planet. Uh but yeah, we're going to start at Romans 19. So guys, if you need some time to catch up, uh definitely spend some time in Romans. But before I let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Undaunted Life Remission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Guys, Logos, we worked with them to do that Logos study bundle. You heard me talk about the top of the show. Go and check that out. logos.com/undauntedlife. Also, we got a free Not free, sorry. Crossway Forging Table Starter Set. There's five awesome resources that you can get at a 50% discount. And we're donation-based ministry. So if you're wondering how we can pull all these things off, it's because we have monthly donors. We don't have any like big foreign donors that are giving us money so that we can talk about how bad the Jews are or whatever uh Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson have going on. Uh ultimately, what we have is guys like you giving 20 bucks a month, 50 bucks a month, 100 bucks one time to help support what it takes to pull off all of this. So please consider doing that. undaunted.life/donate. Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming. www.undaunted.life. The music on this podcast is the song Conqueror by the Christian metal band Void Awaken. Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah. >> The lion. >> [music]