Hey guys, real quick. So, I've talked to men literally all across the globe about where they're missing the mark and how they want to improve. They normally talk about how they wish they were in better shape. They wish they had a better relationship with their loved ones. They wish they had more success and influence at work and some other stuff like that. But here are some of the most common and biggest things that I hear. I wish I knew more about the Bible. I wish I could lead my family spiritually. I wish I could recall more scripture. I wish Bible study wasn't such a struggle. Well guys, I've got news for you. You don't have to keep wishing. It's time for you to start doing. It's time for you to stop wasting your time and money on stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever. I keep hearing you talk about how you want to be more biblically literate and spiritually resilient. And now is your chance to prove that you mean it. That's why I want you to take advantage of our partnership with the most powerful Bible software on planet Earth, Logos. So, Logos approached me about putting something together for the Undaunted Lifers out there, and we collaborated to create something I'm super pumped about, the Undaunted Life Study Bundle. So, here's the skinny on the bundle. There are over 200 individual resources and they include titles from authors like Vodie Bacham, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, Dietrich Bonhaofer, William Lane, Craig, Paul Washer, John Scott, Doug Wilson, Paul David Trip, Jipacker, and a whole bunch more. And there are so many helpful resources in there. There's Bibles, commentaries, Old and New Testament study guides, devotionals, systematic theologies courses dictionaries histories encyclopedias non-fiction books, and more and more and more. And here's the most insane part about this deal. If you were to buy each individual resource by yourself inside of Logos, it would cost you over $3,000. $3,000. But if you get the Undaunted Life Study bundle, you'll get all 200 plus resources for just $349.99. Guys, that's $3,000 worth of stuff for 350 bucks, guys. That's almost 90% off. And you know that you waste more than that on the hobbies that you have right now all the time. And these won't help you with your disciplehip and sanctification journeys, right? It's time to get real and take control of your Bible study and spiritual development. Click the link in the show notes for this episode. If you want the link, it's logos.com/undaunted life. That's www.llog.com/undauntedlife or the link in the show notes. It's super easy to sign up. Again, go to the show notes and click the link or go to logos.comlife. Sign up for Logos and get the Undaunted Life study bundle right now. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. Ryan, Russ, and Zach, what do you have to say for yourself? >> No, I have nothing to say. Well, no. Go ahead and say it because there are people that only listen to this and they don't know what just happened because you talk hit the button and you're like, I got it this time and I didn't even have to look down cuz I knew you didn't cuz you got to wake it up and then you got to start it. Yeah, you got to double tap. Everybody knows you got to double tap. >> Got double tap. >> Everybody's got to double tap. But I don't even care about that right now because look at the shirts. Oh my goodness. This is one of those moments where I wish everyone had their own dedicated camera. But as of right now, it's only me and Ryan with the dedicated cameras. Look at that. Ryan, that's your camera right over there. >> Hey, I fit in an extra large. So, >> check that out. Well, hey, I will say this. So, is everybody feel comfortable in the shirt? And I don't mean from a like material standpoint. I mean, cuz do you know what this means, right? Not only are you co-signing that Christmas tree cakes are the number one Little Debbie snack of all time, but also this means that you are completely comfortable with all five parts of tulip, right? You are so cockure of this that you would even wear such a shirt. I guess I am so cockure of God's sovereignty over my free will. I will wear this shirt. >> How about that? It's almost like you planned that, guys. But y'all look a little uncomfortable. Gonna be real honest. Russ, Zack, how are we feeling? >> I'm just supporting my brothers, my Calvinist brothers, you know, just just trying to >> It's my choice. It's my choice to put this shirt on and I'm I'm I'm taking that choice. >> You sure? Was it predestined for you to wear this shirt? >> Well, I mean, we could make a sweater vest version of it and give it to your pastor at your church. Maybe I like I like Marty's sweater vest, man. Well, I mean, go ahead. Who's Who's the seal with the really long beard that just went on Rogan? >> Cherry. >> Whatever. I was going to send you this video because he got called a Calvinist multiple times from his Rogan interview. >> Yeah. >> And he did a truck talk like two days ago, six minutes long, and he said, "I never read anything from John Calvin. Never read any of it." But apparently he read the same book I did. I'm not a Calvinist, >> but I agree with all the Bible. >> Maybe we should sell cockure t-shirts. the number of guys wearing these with their mustaches and their IPAs. I don't have a mustache. >> That's okay. But you would you absolutely would. >> That's why I'm only 90% reformed because I can't grow a beard. >> So >> So do we need to like erase part of one of those tulips off because you don't even have I should have put a beard on the That's what we should have done. >> It kind of has a beard. It kind of does. >> Well, yeah. What's that little dilly dangle below? >> No, I I think it's kind of I wish you would have sent me that video because it's like >> I didn't go and read Calvin before I I I subscribe to to God's sovereignty. >> The funniest thing about that is people were like, "I didn't realize I was right before I realized I was right." That's basically the >> I didn't realize how depraved I was and that I was so lucky that God saved me until I read about it in his word. >> This is a We know this a deep hole. So, >> we'll get into a chapter. We got to roll. >> I was just saying we just started if you want to go ahead and go through it. Which which parts of the which of the tulips in the left wing are you guys struggling the most with? >> I'm more concerned. What happened to the cake? >> Well, did you eat all that? >> Of course, I ate it. >> I ate it while we were talking. You see this package? >> I was looking around. I was I was like one more bite of that. >> You're mad at me for not talking so you could finish the cake. >> Has almost been removed from my mouth. >> I understand that. But I mean, I ate the plastic too cuz I didn't want there to be a mess anywhere or something like that. But now back to the subject at hand. Is there a part of tulip which uh Ryan, can you from memory give us all tulip? So Ryan, give us tulip. >> T is total depravity. U is unconditional unconditional election. Uh L is limited atonement. I is irresistible grace. And P is perseverance of the saints. >> Okay. No one has a problem with perseverance of the saints. Um >> once saved always saved. >> Yeah. What what is the if there were a sticking point for either translate all of that to the lack of free will, whatever that wherever that falls into that is the irresistible >> grace. The lack of free will. Yes. But I but I actually think like man I there are so many people that could articulate this better. And so like I that that's my stance on it is I I think you Ryan you're really good at articulating the Calvinist side and and I think that um I can 100% see the scriptures that point to that. Just like what we talked about last week there I think there's some allowance that we have to give to the complexity of scriptures to not just say oh it's black and white. There's a lot of scripture that talks about both ways. A lot of scripture that talks about like what our part is and that there's an indication that there is um nothing that we do that brings us that is a part of the salvation, but that we get to play a role in it by the grace of God to to um accept this and to you know blanket ourselves with it. And so I don't I don't know. I think that it is complex and I and I love that, you know, the people that are on one side or the other that really have it figured out. I think that's awesome. There's so many things about the scripture that I don't have figured out that if somebody's got something figured out and they're solid on it, the last thing I want to do is start pulling them away from something they're solid on that I know is biblical. Now, if it's not biblical, I'll I'll say, "Let me let me pull you away from that, man." But everything on that side is very biblical. And so like I'm not I'm not really the person to debate it. >> Can can love be real real? >> Can love be real without free will? >> That's the CS Lewis mere Christianity point. A world full of automatons not a world worth creating. >> I mean that's what to me we've on this podcast we've done this multiple times. We I've read back and forth on it and it always comes down to something very much like that. Can love be real without free will? which I think goes back to the mystery >> that people describe which is there is some sort of an interplay both >> between the sovereignty of God and free will. So because this is this is what I would say >> uh because we're going to have a probably knockdown dragout starting next week um when we get into chapter five >> I and I'm I'm taking this from Adam. So Adam was here on the last uh few batches. >> So he came from a very very Armenian upbringing. the the churches he was attending were very like explicitly Armenian and different things like that. Hush your butt, right? >> Just say one thing while you're building and I need to say something. >> You don't need to. I promise you. Go ahead, Ryan. Go ahead. >> I'm just saying Adam and I came from the same cloth. Like I grew up Armenian, too. >> Oh, my bad. That's a good point. My bad. Right. Point that out. Yeah. I grew up Armenian too. >> Well, wait. What was the What was the Were you Church of God? >> No, we were uh we were Assemblies of God. >> That That's what I'm going to say. Yeah. Assemblies of God. Okay. So, so very very similar. >> I'll be quiet. >> So, this No, no, no. It was It was good. I should have let you It should let you get in there. But Adam said something very poignant. I think it was to both of us uh recently >> where cuz he has gotten, you know, for a myriad of different reasons, he's gotten more of an appetite for for scripture um lately and doing his own study and things like that. And the comment he made to us is there were so many things that I thought were in the Bible and then when I went looking for them, I couldn't find them. >> So his thing was is I had these fully formed opinions, right, that he could have defended, >> but he couldn't do it with scripture, >> right? He he had to defend it based on tradition, based on whatever the Assemblies of God or the Church of God or the whatever of whatever what kind of their structure is to how they approach a year's worth of sermon content. That's where he was finding the substantiation. And I could say I'm coming around kind of in the same way to where at the more I dig in again having not grown up in church but having to really dig into Bible study for the forging table and now for the Daily Blade and just in general I'm like oh my gosh like it's not like one of those things like okay you buy a black Silverado and then you notice every other black Silverado in town all of a sudden it's not whatever that thing is called what the brain does in terms of you know capturing your attention. It's not that. It's just like oh my gosh I thought it said this. That's not what it says. Yeah. >> And so I think that's that's the thing that's happening for a lot of people is it's not like a yanking of the wheel. It's just like, okay, let me drive in this lane for a little bit just to kind of see what's over there and then you're just kind of shocked with with whatever you discover. I guess I think what you have to understand is is I realize there's a mystery to it all. Like I don't know anything. I'm not going to have God's knowledge, you know. But what it comes down to is like Adam, I grew up I grew up in Armenian. Like I remember asking my dad, there was a church we went to on Wednesday nights with my friends. It was uh Baptist church and I was like, "Dad, why don't we go there on Sunday?" He's like, "They're Calvinists." You know, I didn't know what Calvinism was. >> How old were you? >> I was probably 11, 12. >> And so, as I grew in my faith and I started reading the Bible, I couldn't I couldn't come back against certain things there. And I'm like, man, I got I've got to come to a realization here. Same thing with uh what really started it for me was complimentarianism and egalitarianism. And I grew up very egalitarian. And but I couldn't I could not have an egalitarian argument based on scripture. The only scripture you really have is Galatians where it's uh nor slave no free, no man, no woman. But that's talking about salvation. It's not talking about the role of a shepherd. And so it's like I don't have anything I can go back on, you know? And so like you have to start making the shift, you know. And I really started making the shift. It wasn't because I like wanted to make a shift. It was like people were talking to me about it and I was trying to fight them on it, you know. And so >> I will say there are so like even so let's just take that one. So there are other scriptures besides those that do point to that stuff. And I I lean one way. I'm I'm not going to get into my view on it. >> But I think what I do think is here here's the thing. we kind of discussed some of this is is what I struggle with is when you watch someone's ministry that you think that you have decided that you have um that have you've written them off or that that should not be who is doing that job but you see that the Lord is using this. It goes back remember Paul was talking about that other guy and he was like you know I don't like this guy. I don't agree with this guy. He's actually saying some wrong stuff, but actually he's preaching the name of Jesus Christ and at least the name is coming out of his mouth and God is using that. So like I do I I'm I'm on the line to where I try to figure out, okay, where are we like Paul that we're like, man, that's definitely wrong, but there is some good coming out of that. Or when you look at that and you're like, man, that's I I don't know what to do there. Like that's that's something that I'm I'm not sure of, but I'm seeing the fruit of their ministry and the Lord doesn't seem to have a problem with the fact that he is using their ministry even though I think somebody else should be doing it. So Russ, here's a shift that I've made recently and I've talked about this with some of y'all privately and I've talked about it with with Chandler and Joby and different people and I think I asked Joby on I asked a pastor a few months ago >> but I was like do you think there are certain types of churches for certain types of people at certain times, right? >> And so cuz I bring up Life Church all the time and all that and how, you know, they don't take disciplehip seriously, which they don't. They don't take the sanctification process seriously cuz they don't. Um, it's about opening new campuses, you know, with cash and, you know, creating like all this kind of stuff. And, you know, that's kind of the way that they're going. But it's like, okay, is Life Church's lane we're going to entertain you. We're going to keep you uh keep you hear your attention long enough for the Holy Spirit to put a match to that kindling, right? But then you graduate from a church like that cuz that's like church for babies, right? That's like, you know, kid church, like newborn church. And then maybe you start going to a toddler church or a teenager church or like some type of thing to where maybe you graduate to a church to where it's like, okay, some churches are there for milk. They're only there for milk. Now, their problem that they're going to have to answer to God for someday is that they never tried to serve meat. It was always milk and milk was the plan because, you know, they followed some guy in Chicago's lead about doing a, you know, an approach that would, you know, get the most amount of people in the door. Um, and so I think that's part of the thing that I've shifted here recently is like, okay, I'm not going to stop being hard on these churches because they should be doing the entirety of what the Bible says. They don't just get to stop wherever their growth model specialists, experts have told them to stop because it'll it'll mess with the, you know, the the balance sheet or whatever. But at the same time, it's like, okay, I can at least say there is a pathway for them because some of the people I've talked to that have the biggest problems with Life Church got saved there, right? >> And it wasn't because of what Craig did. It was because of what the Holy Spirit did. It's because of what God did. But it's just like, "Oh, sheesh." Like, so we got to be careful. >> I think too sometimes we we we uh give the context that everybody's situation is what ours is here in Edund, Oklahoma, that it's like, man, if you're going to a church that doesn't do this, right, get out and go down the road. There there's so many and and honestly, a lot of them are faithful churches, you know, faithful pastors, pastors been pastoring 40, 50 years, um working on a ministry. Have they done everything right? No. Because they do something um off or that that you know should you should you pull them out of that church? Well, there's a lot of guys that that grow up in smaller towns that there is one church they've just been in there one week and and sometimes they are looking for excuses to be like, I I knew I knew I didn't like this guy. I knew it should not be here. If you're in that situation, get your butt into the church where someone is opening the Bible and and then move in the direction of being in that church and absorbing what you can and absorbing stuff elsewhere. But don't remove yourself from the body. You know, I've never set foot I don't think in a life church campus anywhere. But I've been surrounded by people who have and who have opinions. I went on a sandstone camping trip. If you guys haven't heard of that, it's amazing. started by one of the forging tablelers for fathers and sons and um we're out for four days in Arkansas and the vast majority of people that went were from Life Church. Half of those guys were from the Uver team. They built this big beautiful campus, engineering managers and so forth. And we did some really hard things over those four days. We actually had an emergency that we had to deal with and other things. And these guys, I remember walking away from this being so impressed. uh every every Bible study that we did or teaching that we did was enhanced because they were there. The way that they were working with each other in communities, some of the guys there had some really difficult things that they were going through and their stories with health and other things. And I I just walked away saying if this is an example of the life church community, I'm impressed by it. And then you objectively look at it and think, man, on that campus, Uver has touched how many people across the world? I think it's the number one app. >> They just downloaded a billion downloads at the end of >> they just say celebration. So God can work through anything. >> God God can do anything. And I don't put anything past God. I mean someone's going to get saved out of Joelene church. Someone's going to get saved at Life Church. Someone's going to get saved. Someone may get saved out of a universalist church. Who knows? You know, I don't know. I don't put anything past God. >> But where I have a problem with the secret movement is if we go back to Romans 3:10 is that no one seeks after God. you know, God comes for them. And so that's what we have to realize. You know, >> you know, that scripture actually did for me, Ryan. It's interesting you bring that up because like our church is very East Edmund church for church people. Like you you would not buy a ticket probably to watch this band perform anywhere or even stop by where they're playing at some carnival. Like it's just kind of one of those things. >> But then I just have to remember like it's not the music that's going to attract someone into the kingdom. It's not the how the pastor preaches or how funny or not funny he is or how valuable the, you know, how easy it is to get in out of the parking lot or anything like that. It's like God does the work of saving. And that's one of the things for me to where I was just like >> the more I've dug into scripture, it's just like, oh my gosh, it it doesn't necessarily matter what we do. God's going to do what he does. Look at Muslims getting saved in the Middle East that don't have churches, there's no street preachers, there's no Bibles, and Jesus comes to them. They're in their dreams. It's like, okay, give me a plausibility structure for that. >> Is everything happening right now? I've seen a lot of a lot of reals on that stuff. Do y'all know? Have y'all looked at any of that? Is is this stuff >> real? >> This goes Well, look, Nibil Keshi, may he rest in peace. Yeah. So, you know, >> I know his book and stuff, but it seems like it's ramping up, right? >> Well, there was a guy recently who who he studies in this area, and he was like, out of every three Muslims that we would talk to that converted to Christianity, two out of three said that they had an encounter with Jesus in their dreams. Yeah. >> And then the the other were converted. I'm like literally getting chills talking about the other third were getting uh evangelized by the people who were converted in their dreams, >> right? >> And so it's like you could look at it like the Holy Spirit is reaching these people almost exclusively in their dreams because they there are no churches. Everything is underground. So underground that even they don't know they're there. Right. >> The thing is is God can work no matter how it's definitely real. >> God can work how he wants to work. And like y'all kind of gave me a funny look about the universalism, but I literally went to a church where they didn't preach the Bible very well. It was very a-political like centerleft type of church. And I had never gotten my Bible until I started going to that church and realizing, all right, I'm not getting fed the way I should be be getting fed. And I didn't understand the gospel until I got into my Bible because I was hearing the wrong thing. And the Holy Spirit was through me was showing me like, hey, you're not you're not getting you're not getting the the food that you need right? >> You know, and so it provided growth. And so God can work in so many mysterious ways. >> Well, let me So we got to get get into verse 16 here in a second, but just kind of put a bow of what Ryan Russ what you both were talking about. Um, you know, gosh, I forgot the who said they were talking about the study, but they were talking about the secret sensitive movement. A lot of the problems that happened within that movement is the pe the people that were attending the churches did not know how to get food for themselves. Yep. Right. And so they were only feeding on what was being given to them and it was just milk. Milk sometimes sour milk. And so uh skim milk which is just what what is Ron's thing? Oh yeah. It's just like it's pretending to be milk. Um but like so that may be all that they're getting >> but then they didn't know how to go for themselves. I remember talking to a guy. He was he lived in like the outback in Australia. And he's like, "The only church within driving distance is Anglican." And I was like, "Oof." >> Yeah. >> And I just go, "I guess that's the body you're called to, brother." >> And I was like, you know, you just you make sure you have one of these. You make sure you have a Bible with you. And if they start saying stuff that doesn't really comport with that, take it with a grain of salt. But that's probably your local body of believers. But you might have to supplement more than somebody else that's going to, you know, 11:22 or the village. >> I don't recall like Paul when he's writing stuff to the churches and stuff. He's he's dealing with what to do within that church, how to change the the structure, the things that are needed within that church. Like he doesn't write them and be like, "Hey, uh, you guys in Corinth, you might want to go to the move to Ephesians cuz that's the only move to Ephesus. Go to that church. >> Yeah, to Ephesus. There we go." uh but but he does call them to do stuff. And that's where I mean I'm I come from a pastor's family. And so like my heart is for lay people to invest, dig in, make the changes that they that they that they believe are biblically needed. And uh you know, I I I don't like the hopping. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's let's Yeah. Church hopping, church hopping. Uh so this is what we're going to do, Zach. We're going to go with the initial idea that you said uh in between filmings here. So, we're actually going to just read this entire section here. So, guys, we're going to be wrapping up Romans 4 today because really 16 through 25 has a narrative arc to it. So, I think if we if we kind of go too slow through it, uh which I think we still have plenty of time to really to give this section of scripture its due. But, Zach, if you wouldn't mind, let's go ahead and read Romans 4 16 through the end of the chapter, which is verse 25. That is why it depends on faith in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring. Not only to the adherent of the law, but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. As it is written, I have made you the father of many nations in the presence of God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hoped that he should become the father of many nations as he had been told. So shall your offspring be. He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body which was as good as dead since he was about 100 years old. Or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God. But he grew strong in his faith and he gave glory to God fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was counted to him as righteousness. But the words it was counted to him were not written for the sake or for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. So, we're probably going to be parking in 22 through 25 for a while, you know, just talking about imputed righteousness. But just to go back uh to verse 17 where it talks about it is written um I have made you the father of many nations. That's Genesis 17:5. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. Um I I forgot who said this in a commentary but um when you see something like as it is written there is reference and difference given to God's word which I thought was was really cuz if you say oh well according to this you're you know that's a a referral right you're referring to something but when you're giving deference to the scripture it's like I'm drawing attention to it like I'm going to give my default attention to the scripture and so that's kind of been a trigger for me since I've been reading because like Um, I do a part of my warm-up whenever I work out in the garage gym as I'm reading reading the Bible. And I'm going through Mark right now, which of the gospels, that's the action movie, right? Cuz everything every it's short kind of it's quick hitters. It's like this is what happened. HE SAVED SOMEBODY. MOVING ON, RIGHT? So like that's that's the book of Mike. Uh Mike Mark. Uh the new one in there. >> That's right. Uh you know, it happens. I'm my own Catholic Bible. We just make up books of the Bible. Just kidding. Catholics. Just kidding. But you know in the when I'm reading through there anytime I see the the trigger of as it is written or you know uh for you know even when Jesus was being tempted in the desert it's like you know he was always saying for it is written right as it is written. And so you're you're constantly getting reference and deference to the scripture, which is why we encourage guys not only to, you know, cuz study the Bible, yes, but just consume it, right? That was one of my things to how to avoid being a crappy man this year was >> consume the Bible every day because I kept encouraging guys, study, guys. You got to study. You got to get in there. But then the long haul truck driver who had to, you know, get up to, you know, at 3:00 in the morning to get to whatever, >> you know, maybe he's saying, "Well, crap, I don't have time to get, you know, the logos on life study bundle and sit there in a coffee shop for forever. Like, I got a 12-h hour drive today or whatever." But he can consume it, right? And then it's going to get in there. >> A shout out for that. >> Yeah, let's go. >> So, this huge Bible that you've got in front of you, the ESV study Bible. >> Yes, sir. >> Maybe the best Bible ever. So, these guys know this, but I actually use Logos and their reading plans, and I have their app and everything, and I I found the ESV uh study Bible 365 plan. >> So, you can read the whole thing in a year, but you read all the study notes that comes with it. Wow. >> Because I've talked to a lot of folks that have read through the Bible in 365. Like even Winkler, I think he talked about it when we were on the table once and said he just spent his first year, you know, reading the Bible and they didn't get as much out of it as they would like. >> Mh. So that's been my commitment and I started that two and a half years ago and as of this morning I was on day 110 to put it in perspective. So the thought would be just go through this in detail to try to figure out what does it actually say and take your time flipping back and forth and logos does a great job with that. >> We we have a um I have this little uh I've actually given it to a lot of guys. Not sure. I don't think anybody at this table, but it is just a devotional called um words of wisdom. And it's a little leatherbound devotional book. I say devotional book. It's just the Psalms and Proverbs. And it's a daily >> wrote it. >> Words of wisdom. >> Uh words of wisdom. >> Bible study. David and Solomon. >> Yeah. It's just a >> Shut up. Right. >> Dave 1 through >> the way of wisdom. >> No, that's Bible study for women. Are you doing a women's Bible study? >> It's not even a Bible study. I misguided it as a Bible study. It is just a daily breakdown of you read a couple of psalms and a proverb every day and it's the idea of what you're talking about. >> Uh so NLT is NLT. All right. So words of wisdom. Sorry, I'm I'm on Amazon right now. So I'm giving any of y'all Okay. If you search words of wisdom, a life-changing journey through Psalms and Proverbs. Words of wisdom, a life-changing journey through Psalms and Proverbs. Authors are George M. Wilson. >> Let me see it. And it's >> because there's no commentary in the one that I'm talking about. That's it. >> Okay. >> That's it. Yeah. Yeah. No commentary. Just Proverbs and Psalms daily broken out >> and it's 432 pages, guys. >> Yeah. It's awesome. And so like I just pick it up and whatever day of the month I'm I'm on. I go to that that one. And I've been doing it for a couple years now. This doesn't supplement. >> And you physically have this one? >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm buy one for the three of us. >> Um >> and do you write in it as well like you do with all your other ones? Um I so I actually have four of those and I have more >> I'm so glad I didn't order him. All right good. >> I bought a box of them. So, some of them have written and I've actually thought that like it will be nice cuz some sometimes whenever I write notes in my Bible um I date it and so like a lot of verses I have multiple notes from different dates and the idea is um my kids one day you know maybe maybe one of them have my Bible one of them will have this they'll have different stuff they'll share with each other like hey do you have this note in here and maybe compile it together but um just like the idea of consuming it there's another idea of absorbing it And so like >> Terry a lot of times talks about like there's times that you study that he studies for something like this or or a sermon or whatever he's doing. And then there's other times that he just lets himself read the words and let it flow over him and let it absorb. And so me and Tiffany this past uh year we were actually going through a a legal battle on some stuff and it was >> not with each other. >> No no no. It was really trying and um and we we found that this was such a simple way to sit together to take the commentary out to take my voice out of it, her voice out of it, to just find an easy ground to just sit, read through these and just let it absorb into us. Almost like you just marinate in the word sometimes and and the more time you spend in a marinade, what happens? The deeper it gets in there. >> Yeah, I got some uh jerky marinating downstairs that we'll be able to enjoy here shortly. But to that point, I want to say something real quick. Give a quick shout out to Jay Warner Wallace. So Jay Warner Wallace wrote God's Crime Scene, a bunch of books in the apologetic space. He's a former uh cold case detective. Cold Case Christianity is another one of his books. Um so the the interest interesting thing about that, he was on a call with some of my Dominion guys. And he busted out the ESV Crossway Journal Bible. So it's like a hardback. That's actually the one that I read down in my in my gym. Um, and so there's, you know, basically twothirds of the page is the scripture and then there's like the notes page. Not not a whole lot of notes spaces. That's why, you know, we like these, uh, from Crossway, the different journals. So you have scripture on the left and nothing but no pages on the right. But he has, I think he said he's got two grand grandchildren. And so what he did was is he bought two copies of a New Living Translation Bible with the journaling, you know, columns. and he's got those um those pins that don't bleed through or whatever. And he got them in a bunch of different colors. And his goal cuz they're young, like his grandkids are like young young. But when they both turn 13, he's going to be giving them his Bible with the commentary. And he wants it to be the entire Bible with with his commentary and his notes. >> And the reason why I chose NLT is because it's a little bit more readable if you're younger. So NLT and IV is going to be more readable than ESV, CSB, NASBY right? >> And so but that you want to talk about legacy, >> that's super cool. >> Like there's some really cool things that you can hand down, but I've thought about, well crap, I got two kids, but he literally has two sets out and he's putting the same note in both as he's going through the Bible. >> So there is So me and Tiffany were talking about this idea a long time ago and I actually think there's a company that's getting close to doing this. I wish I could shout them out, but um it's almost like the idea of a legacy Bible to where um if you if a parent has a person has one Bible and then that has all their notes and stuff like that. I believe there's a company you can send that to them and they will actually transpose the notes onto a duplicate or something like that. The idea being like in our house, me and my wife, there's several Bibles and I would I would love to at some point take all of those and send them someplace and be like, "Can you put this into that note version of a Bible and have all that stuff?" But >> well, one other thing that that you could do, I I just say this because I'm so grateful that I did it. U but that same Bible that you have about the kind of calf skin version >> and in all the front pages I wrote the verses for our family, for our kids, children, if something happened to me and they know it's in there. >> Mh. And then I went to my grandmother who was probably the most, you know, uh, faithful example in my life, and told her, I'd like for her to write a letter about her Christian walk. And I called her and I said, "When we get to this family reunion, I'd like for you to bring that with you if you could." And she did and uh, she opened it up and then I had her write it in the Bible and then I kept the other letter copy. And so in the middle of the reunion, in midst of everybody, she was doing this to the point where Ham was kind of getting tired. So she got about halfway through it on a full page and then I kept the rest of the letter. >> Mhm. >> And the idea being I'll just continue that thing and then, you know, hand it down. So many ways you could do this. But you got you got to start thinking about it earlier if you're going to catch those folks, >> right? And so guys, that's just a little commercial for legacy. You know, you can pass down a lot of things, right? Uh, I hope to pass down, you know, a lot of very nice firearms, knives, and what's that? >> Is it legacy? The Bible. >> What? The the version of the Bible? >> No, the version of the Bible that allows the notes and that you send it to them. Is that what it is? >> Uh, no, that's not what it's called. I was just talking about like legacy in general kind of cuz you know, so with with your Bible that you show right here, I saw a video of this guy. I don't know who he was, but he's speaking with an accent. He was holding his dad's Bible, >> which was really small. like it was a really small Bible, but like if the Bible started out like that, this is what the Bible looked like. And what he explained was he said, "My father, every year that I was alive, every year that I knew I was alive and knew my dad and blah blah blah, he would read the Bible four times a year." So basically, he would go through it once a quarter and if he had a note or something like that, he would write a note on a sheet of paper and he would rip it out and he would stick it into his Bible. And so that's what the Bible started at. And then this is his dad's Bible. >> So as he's reading his dad's Bible, there's just note after note after note just sitting there. And I'm just like, >> "Holy cow, that's legacy. That's legacy right there." >> And then, you know, I' I've shouted out uh Ace Book binding here in Oklahoma City. They made uh these awesome uh custom Bibles or whatever. Now, this was a brand new ESV Thinline Bible that he, you know, put the leather and did the whole thing and put the, you know, the Robertson what the Robertson's made famous with the symbols right there. for the gospel. God sent his son down to the die on the cross, to be raised from the grave, to ascend back to heaven. And all we're waiting on him is to come back. But one of the things that he does like that as a third generation book binder is they will take family Bibles that are in shambles and he will refurbish them page by page. Refurbish the entire outside. And so, you know, when he was making some Bibles for me, he's like, "Hey, how long is this going to be? Cuz I just got a Bible, family Bible from the 1800s that I'm going to be restoring page by page." And so that that's kind of a cool thing. Again, just thinking about legacy, but to circle back around to uh this section of scripture here, obviously, when you're talking about legacy, you have to think what was Abram's mindset whenever God was communicating to him as recorded in the book of Genesis. Like, you know, cuz it says in verse 19, since he was about 100 years old, apparently he was 99 years old exactly, right, when what was said in Genesis 17 was said. And again, you can talk about, you know, what happened to the atmosphere after the flood or before the flood and you can you can talk about all the things, right? Um, but he was old enough to where this was preposterous to to think that him and Sarah were going to be able to to have a child and that he would be the father of many nations. And yet, we could see the legacy starting there. >> I I love the idea. So, if you look at um if you look at his name, um I can't ever remember his last name. Skip uh Skip Head. Anyways, Skip H something that does some Bible study stuff uh on YouTube. He was talking about the name of Abram and he said that basically his name originally meant honored father. And so like think about this guy who's lived his whole life with the name honored father. And whenever whenever people meet him, whenever they greet him, they're like, "Hey Abram, what's up man? How are you?" So your honor father, tell me about your kids, you know? And it's always the same thing. It's like, "Yeah, I have this name that doesn't really fit." >> Skip Heitig, by the way. >> Yeah, Heights. Yeah, >> he's got a soul patch, y'all. But go ahead. >> He uh But but that the name doesn't really match what he is, well then whenever God renames him Abraham, it change it changes that to honored father of nations or multitudes. And so, not only has he had to live all of his life with this name, like I don't know, the boy named Sue, like you know, this name that doesn't fit. And you're like, man, why did my parents name me that? Like, they didn't know, but I wasn't going to have kids. It's kind of the embarrassment of my life. Like, I' I've been told that I have this legacy, but no kids. And then God changes his name to Abraham. So, now he has to actually go one above. And he actually accepts the name. So, like whenever we talk about works and later on, we're talking about all this different stuff. There is like he accepts this name and starts telling people, "Hey, you know, my name was funny. it it was Abram which meant like honored father. Now it's even funnier. It means honored father of a multitude. And you know to be able to do that I've just never thought about that before about like the commitment that it took for him to actually and I'm not trying to make a a play on like u sovereignty or anything but the commitment it took for him to accept that name on himself. And it kind of made me think like I wrote down here I was like how awkward was that for him to be called something that he wasn't sure. I wouldn't say he didn't believe about himself cuz it said that he he believed in God, but he accepted that name as if the Lord's given it to me. I'm just going to accept it and I I it's an embarrassment to me right now, but I'm going to go ahead and take it on. And so like it just made me wonder, you know, I know a lot of times with Christians, I talked about my early Christian life, there were times I wasn't willing to accept that name of redeemed or saved or uh justified that I still felt like I was impostor in some of those things. And so I don't know, it just kind of I don't know if y'all ever heard that. Maybe everybody else already knew that that that's what his name meant, but >> Well, I mean, I didn't know that, but I mean, I guess Ryan, would this I mean, assuming it would, but kind of where you were struggling, you were talking about that a little bit last week and again this week, when you get down into verses like 22 and 23, that the faith was counted to him as righteousness. >> And when you start looking into what imputation means and what it is, and you realize imputation is a one-way street, >> that there is no acceptance of something that is imputed. It is imputed upon you. Like um >> so I mean some of the examples that I've used before as part of this argument kind of fall to pieces when you start looking at what exactly is imputation, right? >> Yeah. I mean when when I look at it, I was just looking at his insurance and >> tilt that down a little bit. >> Sorry. Y >> his assurance in God's promise. You know, God's already made in the promise. Now he's gone out in the faith and he's he's assured in that faith that he has. And so God, he knows who God is. God has told him what he's going to do. And so that's why he that's why he accepts it. He's he has faith. That's why he's >> I mean that's what it comes down to. He didn't do anything to deserve it. He was just given it and he's assured in that. >> Is that is that is that accurate? I mean just to be you know devil's advocate. It seems like >> it was counted to him as righteousness and he had agency in his decision that he was going to put his faith in that guidance. So what the what the reference is there is there when you're talking about it was counted to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6 and he believed the Lord and he counted it to him as righteousness. >> He believed, right? That's an action on his part. >> Well, so if if we're fair to the text, and again, I can't read it in the Hebrew or Greek or anything like that. And he believed the Lord. >> There's no indication of to whom the action is accounted to. >> Does that make sense? >> It just says that he believed the Lord. So, we don't know that was completely his free will and he made that decision or God held him down and made him do it, which is kind of like the bastardized version of the the bad part of the the argument for >> I heard that the word that like the the way that that's phrased is like him just saying like God tells him something remarkable and he goes, >> "Yep, >> yep. Story checks out." >> Amen. Okay. If you're God and I'm not. Yep. But that in of itself, like I I think that that is a um it was counted to him. It it was given to him as righteousness. That that right there and that's where I think the deal of faith is that it strings through this that it's saying it it's showing us that the faith that Abraham said had to just say, "Yeah, I I agree. I agree that what you say will happen there will happen. That's all I need to do is just be just say amen. And then that's the same faith that all we need to do with Christ is come to a moment of okay. If you say your blood covers all my sins, okay, I'm I'm I'm good with that. And then and then we go from there. >> I mean, all we bring to our salvation is sin. >> Mhm. >> And all all he can bring is who he is. And God given him the promise. >> Abraham did bring faith. I don't that that's >> why like well why did he bring faith? Why did he have faith in God? >> Well, it doesn't it doesn't describe it. >> Well, so so that's the rabbi. That's why I said devil's advocate because I'm sitting here poking like >> let's not call it devil's advocate. Let's >> fair fair. But but this this this does it well. It says >> of God in whom he believed who gives life to the dead and calls into existence things that do not exist. So the ultimate trump card is that God upholds. He created everything and upholds it with his word currently. I mean that that's you know if you read the Bible it says everything that is currently happening is happening because he is holding it together. That includes >> you and your thoughts and your being and everything else. So it's kind of a precursor. So at a certain point God has you know down to the molecular level I think you know control or influence on you. So that makes sense. >> He opens your eyes too. So >> yeah, >> he he didn't he didn't just say to him, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a multitude of nations." He showed him. He opened his eyes to it. >> You know what I mean though? Like like ultimately that's the trump card. He he >> he made it all and upholds it. So do you have agency? Do you have decision? >> The thing is is like once you see those miracles, it's like it's irresistible grace. >> So let me let me actually to your point. So I'm in the Logos Bible software. Again, guys, you probably heard the commercial. Um Undoned Life has a study bundle within Logos. It's a crazy ridiculous amount of uh resources for for insane discount. Uh Genesis 15:6 again just to read it again in the ESV. And he believed the Lord and he counted it to him as righteousness. Okay. When you click on believed and do a word study, it does bring up the Hebrew, which I'm just going to pretend it's pronounced. Okay. Was that close? Was that close? All right. So, the it's a verb. All right. He believed. And how is that translated? Confirm or support? It's an amen >> which which gives credence to what you just said which it is >> it's again he was the passive agent in the belief cuz he was in the place of acknowledging right yes >> it's a submissive it's a it's a submissive um >> so where are you going with that I just kind of what I think it is is in support of >> the sovereignty of God over the okay >> Abram was the active agent in the belief like he decided I'm looking at all the available data. I see this side and I see this side. I am choosing this side. This is more of an acknowledgement. I am confirming I am supporting what is being said and seen here. >> I don't think that Armenians like I don't I don't think that's like a a thing that is the belief that they that >> to come to salvation you just have to be um able to figure it out. It is more that he offered he offered himself up to faith. Does that make sense? More of than he brought his faith or he had his faith. He he was in a posture of like I go back to the Psalms um that says, you know, Lord, what you don't what you want from us is not um more sacrifices um but a broken and contrite heart. It's that it's that offering of ourselves to be humble, to be submissive for when the Lord speaks, when the Lord shows us something. For those of you that are uh dipping your toes into understanding salvation and you feel a call and you're like, "Man, I don't know if this is me working this out, me figuring stuff out, or if this is the Lord." The Lord is pulling you in there and all you have to do is basically take your hands off the wheel and say, "I'm submissing. I'm submissive to the faith of this." The thing that it comes down to is between Armenianism and Calvinism is who makes the first move >> because one of the biggest analogies. Would it be fair to even just the move in general to make >> I don't think that's the go. >> But that's the thing cuz like and this goes back to Adam when Adam and I were in class. He's like >> not Adam from the Bible, Adam Smith from the forune table. And he would say and he would say like if you're drowning, >> you know, God, you're pulling you're you pull God's hand out rather than God pulling you out of the water. So let me So this is actually very helpful that we're doing this. The last two things I' I looked up in Logos have been very helpful to to this conversation. So the verb here is confirm or support. But if you if you just look up the concept of imputation. So this is from Logos. Um imputation. Here's a synopsis. The first sentence is very helpful. Imputation is a theological concept where God credits righteousness to believers through faith, not works. Okay. So scenario, someone credits your account. Think of an account in your life that has been credited, right? You see that the credit has happened and you are confirming, supporting acknowledging yes the credit has happened. You decided nothing cuz it was credited, right? You did not work with the bank. You did not see what the options were. The credit appeared on your account. You saw the statement. You acknowledged the truth that is already literally there. I think the breakdown of of that analogy is that we are called to faith. It is that we have been told that it has been credited to us where that analogy is we're seeing it in conf in confirmation. There doesn't take any faith to for you to tell me you credit my account. Um I can believe you or not. But when you show it to me in my account, you're not asking me to have faith. You're just asking me not to be stupid, you know, to like just >> Is that not the entirety of evangelism? When you show someone their depravity and yet they're they're thinking of a reason why this isn't for them. I think it's more about who the passive agent is. >> The depravity is showing them what their debt is. So, like you could show me my account and show me my debt, but once you show me that there's a ledger that it's been paid, that's where that's where I think the only thing that is is there is a minute mystery of of how God um enables us to be a part of this versus just to have this acted upon us. Well, if you if you think about I think about um I believe help my unbelief, right? It's a great example. If I were to go to Ryan right now and say,"I need you to increase your belief. Go." How how can you do that? Right? If you if you take your mind into the most challenging difficult circumstances you have ever encountered where the only option that you have is to surrender and just pray and just hope that you're going to get through it and God's going to walk you through it. You know, in those moments you you want to have more faith and belief and peace and you can pray for that, but you can't there's nothing inside of you that you can trigger or muster like you can in other areas of your life to to increase your faith. Mhm. >> So, in that sense, maybe it's like an Adam thing, you know, and what you're describing where you've got to read it and you kind of come to this. It kind of is what it is. It says what it says, >> but but I still have I still have some issues with with um the free will side of this thing. >> I mean, I I I it's like with free will, I just don't understand. I mean, I I don't know what it is like for me. And the reason I don't understand free will is like God is so much more omnipotent. >> I don't even know if I'm using the right word there. >> Yeah. um than I am. So like what makes me think that I have more power over God? >> I see. >> You're saying like the power to move him? >> Well, I have more power that I have to choose him that he like if God wanted like who am I to have more power than God? >> So So I I'm on the other side of that. And I can tell you from that side, I don't associate this with me thinking that I have any more power than God. what I associate this with. I have almost a undesri undescribable grandeur of what I believe the mystery is that God has created there. And so like I don't want it to be confused that when people when people struggle with this that it's it's them taking license to say that like there was a big piece of me like I I did this. No, it's more of the idea that like God and this speaks to his sovereignty in the idea that like we're in time. We see this play out. God, he he made a brush stroke and it was it was all done in that moment. Like he is sovereign over knowing everything. And so like the idea for me is that I have this over grandeur to think that God could be sovereign and it could be done just as he wills it. And yet he made some mystery that he allowed Abraham in this moment to have the re revelation uh to make to to accept it. I I mean I I just take like Abraham's amen or his acceptance is just complete submission cuz at this point Abraham doesn't really have anything to base this off of. So it's not even by the works of his faith. If if it was by that it's like the logic led to Abraham's faith in this logic didn't lead to this. It was just submission that there is there is a bigger power who is who has claimed this and I submit to to his authority. >> And we'll go over this in chapter 5, but if you go back and you look at original sin, I mean, original sin happened >> even during Abraham's time because we still had death, you know, we still had spiritual death and we still had an actual death because of >> because what happened in the garden, but when it when it comes down to it, it's just it's just if we're spiritually dead. >> Yep. How are how are we able to come to a holy God and believe him if we're spiritually dead unless he >> does something over us like he did with with Abraham here. And that's how I look at it, you know, like I absolutely and that's just what makes sense to me because like it's like I'm spiritually dead. Abraham is spiritually dead and he's going out on a limb. He has no children right now. >> So the mystery he's talking about I agree. But yeah, so to answer your question directly, it' be like think about your wife and the fact that she loves you. And that is >> she's not forced into loving you. You didn't, you know, create her and she didn't have a choice or anything. So that's the opposite side of this. So I think there has to be some tension between those two elements that we simply won't understand. >> And and yeah, and I'm not trying to say like act like I understand this all. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, >> the the one thing I would say is sometimes wearing the shirt, sometimes there's an over portrayal of >> that if if you're if you don't hold on to one of these tulips that you believe the opposite of what that tulip represents. And I and I think that that is not the case for most people in in those things is that like there's a there's a thin line between um accepting like this this description of something versus saying like I just think that description is is maybe um not inaccurate, it's incomplete. There's something else there. And that's where I think that some of this some of the scripture I I think it's hard to deny that there's a lot of scripture that talks about sovereignty of God. It's all on God. God does everything like like what you said. Like I don't think there's any Armenian that believes that we acted first or that we made the first move or anything like that, but I but I think that there is a um there's a lot of scripture that speaks towards this heart being opened up to God. And I don't know where we claim that or where we don't. >> So are you saying you you're saying that you do not think that Armenians believe that they are the initial agent? >> I I I don't think they believe I would argue that's precisely what they believe >> that they're the initial agent that they are the no no sorry let let me be clear on what I'm saying so not that they are the initiator of grace the initiator of the transferral of grace right so they sought the Lord right >> y >> I sought the Lord and he heard and he answered wait a minute we go back to you know earlier in Romans it's like no one seeks after the Lord and it's just like >> I don't necessar so I don't think I'm just completely ignorant on it but I don't think that that's a a full view of Armenian standpoint. >> Well, let me give you let me give you something to look at and this is this is a biblical thing. Um, we look at Jesus and he's heading to Jarius's daughter. >> All right. He's going Gyrus. Did I say Jarius? Sorry, Joby. >> I think it's both. >> I've heard it both ways. All right. Go for it. So, he's going to >> Did you just slip a coin into the Joby bucket? I did. That was smooth. That was very smooth. Um, so he's going to uh Jerus's daughter and during while he's going to Jarius's daughter, what happens? You guys remember? >> He's touched by the woman with the problem of blood. >> The woman with the problem of blood who sought after him. >> And so like that made me think, you know, we have one, we have Christ going towards Jerry Jarius's daughter and then we have the women coming to Christ. Doesn't that look like the two things that we're talking about here? >> To a point. To a point. Yeah. >> And then where the question comes in to me is like, all right, the woman who goes after Christ, why does she believe that Christ can heal her? You know, Christ is going to heal Jarius's daughter, but why does she believe that Christ can heal her if she touches if she even touches his garment? So, who opened her eyes to that? Who gave her that? And that's where it comes back to this Abraham. >> I think that's more of a sovereignty issue in the idea that like we're living in time. So, like if I if I want to have a a drop back, it is all all the Lord's picture being painted off of one stroke of a brush and and every single thing plays out uh in in his in his heart in a in an instant. And so, like we're going through it. And that's where I think part of this is is the mystery of how we perceive these things versus how the Lord has orchestrated them. I I have no qualms to say that he's sovereign over all of it. Um but I in in in this world since I have to live in a timeline in this time in in living in this timeline I have to reflect. It's like a fish living in water. >> Um I don't fully understand it because I can't understand what's outside of it. Like I can't a fish can't describe the uh the beach. >> Well, not even the beach. That's one layer of separation away. I'm sorry. The fish can't describe the stars or uh the universe. There's so much separation there that it can't even describe water because it's just engulfed with it. And that's kind of how I feel like with a lot of these things are our perspective is so surrounded by it that I just have to say how my perspective is which I which means that in this world I feel that there is um an allowance given to me by grace to participate in uh in the submission to the faith. >> So I think even people that are like very much so on the cockure side of things like they they would agree with the participatory element. However, if we remember, tulip was a response. Tulip was not the initial thing like tulip was a response to the followers of what Armenius or whatever. And so the one of their big things I think it was they had an article form was resistable grace. Okay, so obviously the counter to that is irresistible grace, right? >> But with resistable grace, the the idea is that yes, God grants faith, but it can be resisted. And so like if I were holding you down saying, "Russ, stop resisting. Russ, stop resisting. Russ, stop resisting. Russ, stop resisting." >> You can choose when and if you stop resisting. Correct. >> That that's not a trick. Yeah. >> Right. You can choose when and if you would stop resisting, right? So you can never stop resisting, right? Or like you could just keep resisting at infant item, right? So I think what what's being described here is that what people think in the Armenian position is I was the one that made the decision to stop resisting because I can't seek until I've stopped resisting. Right? I cannot listen until I've stopped resisting. Like there there is no movement towards God while resistance is taking place if that makes sense. And so I think that is a very fair downthe-m middle description of what Armenians believe. And again, if if we look at that through through the lens of what we're reading, I don't see it right. And again, I'm I'm reading all this thinking like, okay, here's what I thought. Here's what it actually says. Okay, what does that actually mean in reference to us? But then we also get back to the uh you know, where what what is it the u oh, I can't remember, but where people basically they step back when they're trying to consider the free will and sovereignty uh argument and they just say mystery. They don't really know where these two things coincide. But the one thing that is clear is who is the active agent. And if we look at the language and if we look at what's specifically here even written in English, we are the passive agent. And because of words like imputed and imputation in general that the only realistic conclusion you can come to is that we are passive in the entire thing. I'll just go to the word submission keeps on coming up in my head that like to be submissive is a form of action and inaction in and of itself >> and that's where like whenever I say the mystery of it I I'm I'm just saying that there is an allowance there that by being submissive doesn't necessarily mean that you have done something like in the analogy of like I grabbed on to something or or things like that it is more of the submission missive act of like I don't know allowing the thing to happen to you that you know the Lord has called you to. So, >> and I I kind of hear where he's coming from on that. It's like it's like all I bring to my salvation is my sin. And what do I what what is the active thing that I can do once my eyes are open to the beauty of the gospel is to repent, you know? But the beauty of the gospel and like with Abraham here, God's going to cause me to repent. you know, I'm not going to make that action on my own. I'm gonna repent because I know the beauty of the gospel. That's that irresistible grace. But I had my my my qualms with irresistible grace because I didn't really understand it, you know, until we started reading more into to chapter 5. It's just like God is sovereign over all. And so once our eyes are open to it and we're open to our depravity and we're open to what Christ did, it's hard to just push it away. Well, one thing that uh people will bring up a lot would be Pharaoh and you know eventually he said no so many times that God hardened his heart which also talks about agency on Pharaoh's part but I think he was trying to orchestrate a larger story for our benefit etc. >> Yeah, >> this was interesting because I'm always trying to look for actionable things as you read, >> you know, to try to uncover some of this. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was counted to him as righteousness. So, I guess if you're looking for ways um to try to, you know, do your part, which you know, whatever that means, I guess it's uh kind of pre-committing that you're going to give glory to God in all facets and as a result, your faith will be increased. >> Well, guys, uh that is a healthy discussion. We got way more into that than I thought we were this week. I thought it was all going to go down next week. So, we got nothing to talk about next week when we get into Romans 5. Ryan is still chomping at the bit. >> Limited, people. So, we're going to go and leave it there. So, uh, we wrapped up Romans 4, but come ready to go for Romans 5 starting next week. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life. 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The music on this podcast is their song Perpeta, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.