[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping them to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Ryan. That's Browning. That's Dean. Now, last week, we had a travesty, right? And you would have thought the travesty that I was talking about is the fact that if you keep old Christmas tree cakes uh and then eat them after their expiration date that they're going to be awesome. And they just weren't. They flat out weren't. But you know what? I think I'm going to keep this one in the plastic >> and I'm going to keep it in the studio like on the shelf over there like with the fortune table materials and the 100 books every Christian man should read list just to see how it does over time. >> Hey, in another couple months you could just make that a Christmas tree ornament. >> I want to see grab it and eat it. >> I think it's ornament style now. I some saw off friend of mine's going to come in here and just pull it off and go go crazy with it. Last week, your lovely bride, she me inconvenienced herself to be boop over here and leave us a bottle of Macallen 12 over here. 12. >> Yeah, sorry. Macallen 18. Oh, how dare I? So, Macallen 18-year-old and I didn't realize it was I knew it was an old bottle cuz I saw the dust, but I completely forgot about the cork and I just neandertoled that thing right off the top. And so, you might be wondering, well, Kyle, I see the cork up there. Yeah, I finagled in there. I got got that cork out of there. There's very little cork that got down into there. And we happen to have some scotch in our glasses. So, we're going to do a little scotch class for you guys. So, cuz uh before the before the pandemic, believe it or not, I would do whiskey tasting classes for charity. I would like do some charity things and like help out some. So, some of those classes have some I did one for the American Cancer Society. I did one for Oklahoma State University, >> which is currently drowning. >> Yeah. >> Just like their football team. >> Yeah. Oh, boy. And it's not going to get any better by the time y'all hear this. We can say that. But couple of quick things. If you ever see a number on a bottle of whiskey, what that indicates on this one, it's Macallen 18year-old. Basically, what that means is the youngest whiskey that's in the bottle is 18 years old. Now, in order to get the flavor profile that they want, you know, maybe there's mainly 18-year-old scotch in there and maybe there's some 20-year-old and maybe even some 25year-old, but if there's a drop of 18-year-old in that cask, they got to put 18 on the bottle. And a lot of whiskies don't have an age statement of any kind. Doesn't mean anything. Just means they're not trying to advertise via the age statement. And just because it's older doesn't necessarily mean it's better. As an example, I like the Glen Grant 12-year-old better than like the Glen Grant 15year-old. A lot of it just comes down to marketing and different things like that. But so this is a Glen Karen glass. It is fluted. It's going to help you uh with the three parts of a whiskey. Okay. So Dean, because you're not a very experienced scotch drinker, are you right? So not >> I'm a bourbon guy. >> More of a bourbon guy. So, there are three parts when you're tasting a whiskey for the first time. There's the nose, there's the pallet, and then there's the finish. So, there's three things, but right now we're going to work on the nose. >> So, if it's the first time you've had whiskey uh for the Don't skip ahead, Ryan the kids. Let the kids You're always the ruiner of momentum. Okay. Can you just stop sit there and just just do what I say? You just sit there and think about what you've done. Sit on your hands. Actually, >> I'm not even going to open. I'm not going to touch >> I'm just going to do this with you. Just do apparently whatever you want to do all the time. Okay. How about that? All right. So, fluted glass. What you're going to do is you're going to stick your nose in the glass with your mouth open and you're just going to take a shallow Go ahead, Ryan. I'm just kidding with you. You're just going to take a shallow nose breath with your mouth open. >> So, since that's the first alcohol I'm assuming anyone have had today, that probably wasn't very pleasant, right? You know, you're going to get a lot of the alcohol on that little uh little hack, unless you've got like some fofy lotion on or something like that. Smell the back of your hand and that'll reset your nose. All right. So, reset your nose. >> Now, do the same thing. Nose in the glass, mouth open. Take a breath through your nose. Kind of a deeper breath. Now, so the nose should start to open up just a hair. Ryan does not have nose hairs because of his alipcia. So, his nose can be quite sensitive. So, nobody make fun of Ryan. Uh, but now this is one of the weirdest things that I learned about nosing a whiskey. And I promise you, I'm not lying. And Ryan was actually about to do it when before he was trying to ruin all the moment. Don't say anything. You're going to ruin it. You're going to ruin it again. Hush your butt. Hush your butt over there. But kind of like how your eyes wh your eyes have to combine to give you a picture, right? And if you cover up one eye, it kind of ruins your picture. Your nose does the same thing because apparently, I'm not a doctor, not a scientist, but one nostril goes to one part of the brain. The other nostril goes to a different part of your brain. And one nostril is going to pick up more of the alcohol. And the other nostril is going to pick up more of the, you know, the other things that kind of give the whiskey its character. Oh, if you block one nostril, stick that open nostril in the glass. Mouth open. Okay. So, get a sense of what that's like, the sensation. Smell the back of your hand. >> Now, block the other nostril. Do the same thing. >> Oh, I like that one better. >> Yeah. See? Now, which one did you block first? >> I block I blocked the right one first. You >> blocked the right one first. M. >> So, if you're right-handed, your left nostril tends to pick up more of the alcohol. >> Your right nostril tends to pick up everything else. Fact check. True. >> Fact check. >> Fact check. True. >> Fact check. True. >> True. >> Okay. Three TRs. So, now what we're going to do is both both uh both nostrils in the glass and you're going to take a full deep breath through your nose. This is the last thing we're going to do with the nose. I know this seems obnoxious, but this is when you're trying a scotch for the first time or whiskey. This is going to burn for me, so I might cough. though. Okay. So, now what we're going to do, we're going to taste the uh whiskey for the first time. Okay. I actually like doing this cuz I would like teach people about the history of whiskey and how we got it and all the different things, but I'll describe what we do first. And I actually learned this technique from the international brand ambassador for the Glenn Livit. So, uh, he was at a tasting at a cigar lounge, uh, Stag Lounge in Oklahoma City, owned by the great Dwayne Poor, one of the, uh, one of my best best buddies and one of the most generous men I've ever met in my entire life. Okay, so this is what he taught us cuz he went into this whole scientific explanation that was way above my head about your olfactory system and how things are perceived and blah blah. Lost all that. Didn't know anything about it. So, I'm only remembering the pieces that I could keep up with. So, what you're going to do is you're going to take a sip into your mouth, but not a big sip. And then you're going to tilt your head forward, which is going to allow the scotch to mix with your saliva. And you're just going to move it around the inside of your mouth, tops and bottoms of your tongue, fronts and backs of your teeth. You're just going to move it around. After a few seconds, going to start to burn. That's okay. Keep moving it around. Move it around. Move it around. And then when I say, you're going to tilt your head back, breathe through your nose, swallow the whiskey. Then you're going to exhale out of your mouth. Then you're going to inhale through your mouth. And then your pallet will be set for the tasting. Okay. >> Oh, >> do you ready? >> So that's we're priming. >> Yeah. So that's this is what we're doing to prime us for the actual taste. So >> y'all just go ahead. I'll I'll walk you through it. So take a little sip into your mouth. Little sip into your mouth. Do not swallow it. Take a sip in your mouth. Now tilt your head forward. Let it mix with the saliva. Move it fronts and backs of the teeth. Move it around the tongue. Move it around the mouth. Should start to burn right about now. Keep your head down. Keep your head down. Okay. Mixing. Mixing. Mixing. Mixing. Okay. all at the same time. Tilt your head back. Breathe through your nose. Swallow. Now exhale out of your mouth. Exhale in your mouth. Okay. It shouldn't be very pleasant cuz your pallet has not had any alcohol on it. We tried to prime your nose a little bit. Okay. We've moved from the nose to the pallet. Now we're going to focus on finish. Because probably for the next 30 to 60 seconds, your gums are tingling, your tongue's tingling, inside of your mouth's tingling. and you're like, "This is ridiculous. This is not how you drink whiskey," you bang it on the table and you throw it back and then you make, you know, regrettable decisions. No, that's not what we're doing. We are learning doctors here at this table. And so, basically what you do once that tickle, whatever spicy sensation in your mouth goes away, then you're just going to sip the whiskey. And so, now you're going to have a nose because you've already learned how to nose it. You're going to have your pallet and then you're going to have your finish. And one kind of trick if you are um drinking a whiskey, if after you swallow it, the sensation or the taste disappears quickly, not a very high quality whiskey. Just not very high quality. Some of the best whisies that I've had, and I've had, you know, scotch and I've had whiskey as old as 50 years old, right? It slowly finishes right down through the mouth, through the through the, you know, throat, through the shoulders, all those types of things. And you could not take another sip for five minutes and still taste it and sense it on your pallet, in your nose, all that. What's up? >> When you bring that up, it reminded me the first time I had Isis. >> Yeah. >> When we were with Dwayne and he gave us a little Freud 30 year. >> I tasted it the next day still. >> Right. It's it's a weird sensation because there are six regions of Scotland. So there's Highland, Land, Spaceside, Campbell Town, Isa, and Islands. So Isa is a small island off the coast of Scotland. That's where they make leafroyg uh logulin arbg and they dry their barley with Pete moss. So when people are like oh this is smoky and pey I don't have time to get into all that but a lot of scotch is not pey right it may have a smoky flavor but it doesn't have anything to do with Pete but we're going to go ahead and y'all can just enjoy this whiskey as we dig into uh dig into the word but but we have to have a toast. I'm going to teach everybody a toast. An old Irish Gaelic word it's slancha. Slancha that is that means to good health. So slancha. >> All right. So we are drinking scotch to the glory of God cuz he gave it to us as a gift. But if it leads you to drunkenness. All kidding aside, guys, if you have any problems with alcohol, it's best that you not do anything with it. I've got several friends that I love very, very dearly. They got to a place where they made such bad decisions. uh as it pertained to alcohol that even though they could very likely have a beer or two or an ounce of scotch or two, they've decided for the sake of their families, for the sake of their walk with Christ, for the sake of their kids, businesses, whatever, that they know they are no longer going to touch the stuff. And uh we are the type of guys we like to kid around. We like to have a good time, but we would do no nothing ever to put one of our brothers in harm's way. And so if that's you out there, uh we don't want to be offensive in any way, shape, or form, but there are a lot of people that can responsibly enjoy uh one of God's gifts to creation, and that is uh delicious uh alcohol. But drink responsibly. Don't be a [ __ ] Don't be an idiot. Don't drink and drive all the things. Moving on, we are moving on in Romans 2, and last week we wrapped up uh we looked at the the kayazm that we see in verses 6- 11. And so we had a good discussion there. And this is coming on the heels of uh everything we talked about at the beginning of Romans chapter 2 coming off of Romans 1. And we're marching our way towards Romans chapter 3, which is where we start getting a big shift in the narrative. But we're going to start with Romans 2 12 and 13. So Dean, if you can read those for us, fire away. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. So, there's a lot of ways people can discuss these these first couple of verses because some people will will look at these first couple of verses. I don't know what it was like when y'all were digging into the commentaries or when you were thinking through this. There are a lot of people that like to kind of negate the natural law, right? So, we have God's law and then you have natural law. Kind of the stuff that's written on our hearts. Some people don't fully wrap their minds or agree with that philosophy just because they're like, you know, our hearts are, what did we talk about last week in Jeremiah? Like, they're desperately wicked. Like, so, no, there's no ingrained right and wrong in us. And so, some people kind of negate those two things. But I think that argument starts to come in right about now when you're reading through Romans. So, I don't know if that came up for you guys, but that was kind of a center point as I was getting into 12 and 13. >> I think when we started talking about this, especially early on in the week uh in the a couple episodes of weeks past, is that is Paul rebuking the Jews now? And I I once we get to this part, it's like no, he's not really just rebuking the Jews. He's rebuking the Jews and the Gentiles in the fact of the law will never be able to save us whether we know the law or the law is written on our hearts. And so he's kind of showing here that even though they know the law, they'll perish with or even though they don't know the law, they'll perish without the law. And those who do know the law and hear the law will still perish because of the law. So um it it's it's just a rebuke of it's a rebuke of uh sin in itself and not wanting Christ. So yeah, I just felt like they he was taking Romans 1 and then the start of Romans 2 and starting to kind of mesh it together to show how nobody is righteous. >> Yep. Sorry if y'all if y'all heard that right when you stopped talking. I believe that was my youngest born that just screeched. >> I think he just realized that he uh he's not justified. >> Okay. Well, sorry. Why'd you do that to him, Browning? Goodness gracious. I lost what I was going to say something. It was going to be like absolutely uh incendiary, but nope. It's all gone now. Thanks a lot, Eli. Appreciate you. Well, you know, as a believer and it it's easy to see and and to acknowledge like we were created by a creator. Well, the creator of of course he put things in us that were there without us really even knowing because he created us and he put those things in there. And when you see, you know, it's like whether you have the law or not, whether whether kids know the rules of how to act on a playground at school or not, like when they do wrong, you can see their response to it, right? Like there's something written and like that written on their heart kind of a thing. There's something you you call it the the nature law. What? >> Natural law. >> Natural law. like well that's I mean that that is just God's law woven into us before we know what to call it >> and that's that's the thing like we talk about conscience and we talk about the Holy Spirit it's like when does the Holy Spirit come to us you know what what is it the Holy Spirit or is it our conscience and it's just like no the moral law is written on our hearts when God created us whether you have the Jews who were given God's law the only people ever given the law from God but then you have people outside the Jewish um civilization and you had >> Yeah. You had the Gentiles, you had, you know, the Amorites, the Amalachites, you know, they still they still didn't go and kill their young all the time or they still had it they still had that moral law written on their hearts. And so it's like how can people who not know God like atheists still be able to have some sort of morality? And it's because that's woven into the fabric of our being. >> Yeah. An atheist can't truly be an atheist, right? They have to play a double standard. >> That's true. >> It's impossible for them to truly say, "I'm an atheist and don't believe in God." That would they would have to act a certain way and it wouldn't obviously wouldn't end well for them. Um, and so they have to play both sides of that, right? Because because of that very thing because there's a moral there's a morality. >> Well, going back to Romans 1, we talked about Romans 1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them. So that's an indictment right there for all the people because I've seen a lot of interactions between Christians, Christian apologists, right, and uh and atheists where they're just like, "Well, I would believe in God if you would just show me something and be clear." But I can't remember the circumstance, but there was apologist talking to I think it was one of the four horsemen of of new atheism. Maybe it was just a famous atheist scientist and he basically asked him I think it may have been Frank Turk asked him he's like hey what would it take for you to believe in God like what sign you're asking for a sign what sign would you have to see and the guy said well if I looked up at the sky and it said my name and it said hi name this is God I'm real believe in me he's like maybe then but then he immediately caught himself cuz he's he's an intellectually honest atheist Right. But he just goes, >> "But in that moment, I would just assume that I was like losing my mind and that I was like tripping out or something." He didn't use that phraseology, but he's just like, "I just figured I would be having a hallucination of some kind." And so, he insulated himself from the truth that's already written in there, right? And he So, he's going out of his way to suppress his truth, suppress the truth, as we saw right there in verse 18. I think another thing that it shows here too is that you ever hear that excuse like when people want to talk about God and um how loving he is or how wrathful he is like why would God send somebody to hell that doesn't know him? Well, Paul takes away all excuse here of not knowing God like how many times it's like hey what about all those people in Papa New Guinea or wherever that have will never hear the gospel. >> Yeah. >> You know it's like but they it's written on their hearts. They know God. They know that there's a God that, you know, and so there there's going to be a sense of faithfulness there towards God. And so it takes away all excuse right here, whether you're Jew or Gentile, whether or not to believe that God is one, the creator of the universe, and two, he's righteous enough to judge you. >> Yeah. I I had written a note that said, you know, God's judgment will not be partial to those who have more truth. it will be according to the truth that they have and what they do with it. Right? So whether whether we have a the we're we don't know Jesus, we're non-believers and we and we are relying on what we have written on our heart. There is enough there to lead us towards away from wrong and towards right. But there are like the Jewish people had law. So you know his judgment is going to be according to the truth that we all had because he is impartial right so it's well how much truth did you have and what did you do with it so no one else's truth will be used to judge anyone else right I think Sproul called it uh and I'm going to butcher this it's like gentius which is like law of nations and so it's like the law of god is written on our hearts Um, I'd have to go. I didn't bring my Sproul commentary, >> but um, but yeah, like he was pointing out that the law of nations, so it's the law of God that it's written on our hearts. So, we have no we have no way to say that there is no God because of morality and what is and good things are written on our hearts which is his morality. thou shalt not kill. Us knowing that we shall not kill an image bearer of God shows that that something's written on our hearts of what is good and everything that is good comes from God. >> I was just thinking about the natural law and natural revelation as well. Like combining those two with people that kind of just live out in the middle of nowhere like that don't have any tr our our culture today. um you know, they they look up at the sky, they look around them, and they're, you know, convinced or at least inquisitive about there being somebody that created everything that they see. And maybe combined with knowing or feeling uh or realizing maybe there's something wrong with them or the world around them or people around them um that God would then give them special revelation. I was thinking about it kind of from a back backwards point of view. Like I know that there have been tribes that have been found to perform sacrifices that that are similar to the crucifixion of Jesus, but it's kind of all skewed. So I don't know, you know, it's conjecture to kind of think, well, how how did he get to that point? But um it seems as though God would reveal himself in through special revelation to those who look up and or consider or ask or in inquire about about him even though they don't have the Bible. >> Well, and everything God creates Satan counterfeits. And so there's a counterfeit version of each one of those things. So Catholics would say a sacrament or something like that. There are pagan versions of all of those things that are like Christianity light, right? So they're they're Christianity adjacent, I guess you could say. But nonetheless, they're still they're still worthless because I mean again going back to verse 12, for all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law and who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. Inherent is that in that is the necessity of the gospel because there all pathways have been removed, right? Because if your pathway to God is through the law, nope. If your pathway to God is I don't even need the law, I'm just going to be good. Nope. also and so every uh option basically has been removed from you. >> But how would you know what was good without the law? Also true because that's so that's the other thing that I've seen again apologists do to where they'll usually try to corner an atheist which if for this to continue to happen to atheists it's just like can y'all watch a single debate on YouTube between a Christian and atheist because this always goes here >> but they'll basically maybe they'll give an anecdotal scenario of someone that murders a child or rapes a woman or something like that and they'll be like is that wrong and the person will fall into the trap immediately be like well yes it's wrong well and then the person will essentially say to What authority do you appeal to? What morality do you appeal to call that wrong? And as Robbie Zachcharias would say, I know we're not supposed to say his name, but Voldemort Robbie Zachcharias um he would uh say some so some people some cultures would say love your neighbor as yourself. Other cultures eat their neighbors. So which one is right? Which one is righteous? Which one is moral? And an a an atheist just basically can't appeal to that because that's what I even saw recently. I think it was Ben Shapiro was on with Bill Maher and he basically and this Ben Shapiro is obviously Orthodox Jew. He basically said, you know, Bill, you're living off the large of biblical morality. You woke up morally speaking on third base thinking that you hit a triple. Oh, and Bill Maher didn't want to hear any of that. But it's like all these things you say that people should and shouldn't do. Where did we get those ideas? Because for the entirety of human history before biblical revelation and after apart from Christ and apart from a biblical narrative, it's all death, destruction, raping, and pillaging and stealing. Like that's all that it is. And there's no conscience. There's no, "Oh, really? Should I do this or should I not do it?" And so for anyone that doesn't acknowledge, right, they've suppressed the truth, you know, according to Romans 1. It's like you don't really get that as an option. actually other stuff on 12 and 13. >> No, I'm good. >> I just want to get it's just gentium was the word I was trying. >> Yeah. And it means it's Latin meaning law of nations or law of peoples referring to a body of customary rules that were considered to be universally valid and to govern the relations between different states and peoples originating in ancient Rome and initially applied to cases involving non- Roman citizens but evolved to encompass the principles of natural reason common to all humanity becoming a precursor to modern international law. >> Can you spell it for the folks at home? >> Yeah. Uh, it's J U S space G E N T I U M. >> I didn't know there was a space. So, if you hadn't said that, it would have been a rough. I tried to find a second ago and I couldn't cuz you said like I tried to sound out what you said. You said is gent or something like that. >> I Yeah, my my chicken scratch over here. I had a >> It's gentium is what I have, but >> that's about as bad as I was a few weeks ago trying to sing it backwards. But yeah, but I mean there is there is an I that you can also put in I us space uh J G E N T I M and that will bring up just as well. >> Very good. Well, let's let's move on to the next chunk here. We're going to do 14-6. So, uh you got yours up there, Ryan. So, Romans 2 14- 16. For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. >> So, no works there, right? We're not saved by works. But 14 verse 14 is kind of going into the natural law thing that I was talking about. It's like which again dots with Romans 1, which I feel the need to continually remind, you know, the people listening out there because, you know, I didn't know this until someone taught it to me. But it's like verse, chapter, and verse ratted later so it'd be easier to find stuff and to reference. This was all read all at the same time, right? People weren't, you know, getting a letter from Paul, right? That took how long to get there? they get this letter and they're like, "All right, well, let's just read it, you know, one chapter a day for the next, you know, 16 days or let's spread this out to a year." No, somebody stood up and read this in a language that they could all understand. And so, they're all experiencing this narrative all at once. And so, this right here, especially verse 14, goes right back to what we saw with the suppression of truth in Romans 1. >> Yeah. It also just shows that no one's innocent, >> right? He's leading up to that, isn't he? Right. >> No. Yeah. No one is innocent. You're gonna need God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. >> So, not only is God gonna judge you, Christ is Christ is going to be there at his right hand, you know, but will he intercede for you? And how does he intercede for you is the question that Paul's going to get to. >> Yeah. And you know, and and Jesus takes it sin further than the law when he starts talking about, you know, um adultery and u and fornication and whatnot. But when he talks about those those things that are in the heart of man, you know, when you think about these things, that's a sin. I've got a friend that just think that's ludicrous. He's an atheist or an agnostic, whatever you want to call him, but he just is like, "Seriously, God's going to judge my thoughts." Yeah. >> Is he that asinine? You know, it's really interesting just to hear from the other side just how taken back he is by a God that really wants to be that controlling over mankind. >> Yeah. What what's his what's his basis for his does he think his thought life is private or like what >> he does. Yeah, he he really does. He's like and and really it's kind of more of he doesn't understand that, you know, out of the heart the mouth speaks, you know, and and our uh the things that we do first start in the in the mind, you know, it's like I those things are private to me, right? I'm not acting on them. So, they're there. Whatever. >> Sproul brings up a good uh in his commentary I was reading brings up a good story. He had a buddy who was actually a Christian and he's like and he talks about this. He's like, "Well, I already thought about that woman in my mind and what I wanted to do. I might as well just go do it. I've already sinned." >> Yeah. >> You know, and like I It comes back to that cheap grace. And it also comes back to like how many times have you heard like somebody who's like in sin and gets like called out for their sin and they're like, "Well, why are you judging me because I sin differently than you?" You know, it's like, "Okay, bring up my sin, brother. I want to know what that is so I can be convicted by it and change. But everybody uses this throws out this like just because I sin differently than you. Well, now you now you basically said what you're doing is a sin. >> Yeah. >> But why aren't you trying to repent of that? And so it's just I just find it funny like when you listen to even an atheist who will say what God's asked nine for listening to my thoughts, but then you have actual believers or people who say that they're believers and be like why judge me because I sin differently than you. Yeah. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Oh, no. Go. >> Well, I was just going to say that reminded me, we're going to get there probably in two or three years. Romans 6, uh, verses 1 and 2, reading from the King James. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid, or by no means, you know, as another description, how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? >> Go ahead. >> It just goes back to the cheap grace that I talked about a couple weeks back. Like, I could sit there and say, "This is who I am. God loves me for who I am. I'm gonna continue to do this even though I know it's sin. He knows it's sin. But that's why he died on the cross for me so I can live this way. That's not why he died on the cross for me, right? He died on the cross for me to change me to have me repent of my sin. And so that's where that's where we're coming here is when not only does he going to judge our actions, he's going to judge our inner thoughts. He's been judging our inner thoughts since he walked the earth. I mean, he at he didn't he said he was going to overcome the law or be become the law, you know, because he's taking on that portion that we'll never be able to have. We'll never be able to do. And so, but he also tells us, I'm not only am I going to die for your actions, I'm going to die for your deceitful heart as well. >> Well, that's why I don't like at all whenever Christians say something along the lines of, you know, God just loves us as we are. >> Yes. >> No. God loves you where you are. Yes. >> But he doesn't want you to stay there. Because if he, as I've said in previous weeks and on previous episodes over the last several years, if >> God loves you as you are, there's no reason for Jesus. Nope. >> There's no reason for him to be sent down here to be murdered on a Roman cross to pay a sin debt, right? None of that comes into account if he loves you as you are. Now, I do want to be be sensitive to this because I I think I've done, if I were to, you know, judge myself, I think I've done maybe a poor job over the years of kind of expressing this, but this is the my actual sentiment. I'm heartbroken over some people's specific sin. So, I'll use me as a as a for instance. Okay, I'm sitting here uh you know, enjoying some delicious scotch. As I finish my glass, I feel no physical chemical connection to this bottle. So, the 1 oz, one and a half ounce of scotch that I just drank, there's a 0% chance that turns into me finishing off this bottle, dude, that that's probably all I'm going to have, right? I' I've never been drunk. I've never had to reckon with, oh my gosh, what did I do last night? Like, that's never been a thing for me. But it is for a lot of people. Some of y'all listening to this right now, watching this right now, that's a problem for you. My synind is more voyuristic. I've been very open about this. It's been lust, lusting with my eyes back, you know, 15 plus years ago when I would look at uh porn and use it as a masturbatory aid, like all those different things. And but for other people, I know some guys are like, "Yeah, I've just never really struggled with porn." Like I I've watched it a few times and I was like, "This is weird." And so I just didn't I just wasn't drawn to that. And then, you know, I talk to other people like it's one thing to talk about somebody that's acting out in a homosexual manner. It's another thing to talk to someone who's been samesex attracted their entire life and they're crushed by it. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Because they're trying to, you know, live as Christ to die as gain. They're trying to like, you know, glorify God with their body. But it's a male who's only ever been attracted to males. And so if your theology is God loves you as you are, that's the theology of Lady Gaga, right? I was born this way. >> It's like, no, you have a flavor of depravity. >> She's right though. You have a kind of sin, but you you were born this way, but you weren't born for that depravity. >> And so, at the same time, you were not born to live in that sin. And so, imagine me telling like, cuz >> think about it this way, cuz people would be like, "Oh, that's very judgmental to tell a gay person they can't act out and be gay, right?" But would that person correct me if I were to talk the same way to a wife beater? Like Vod said this before, you know, your your sermons on homosexuality die the death of a thousand qualifications because, you know, imagine Vod starting a sermon out with, you know what, we love pedophiles, right? You know, we we understand that there may even be some pedophiles here. Heck, I had some pedophiles at my house last week for dinner and then you try to do a sermon on pedophilia. That's what we do with homosexuality, right? Oh, you know, I'm sure there's some gay people in here and we just love gay people and we just we do everything we can to reach out to the gay community. And then you try to preach the softer verses about what God says about homosexuality and you say dumb things out loud like you know God only whis I'm not going to scream about things that God only whispers about. Um you know things like that. It's just it's wholly unhelpful when you're not addressing that. But just just hear us and I think everybody at this table would echo it. If you've got a particular kind of sin it's got to be rough. Like those guys that that can't have one whiskey and it not turn into 10 and then they make bad decisions behind the wheel and they do all those different things. I don't understand those people. I'm like, what an easy sin to avoid. Don't go to bars. Like, don't ever pick up the bottle that has alcohol in it. But for them, it's just not the same thing. So, I do have sympathy for you guys. But the standard is clear. And so, I am to call you all to repentance if that's the lifestyle you're in and to also compel you to stop doing that, man. >> But nobody identifies their sin with their Christianity. Like, like >> they don't put a qualifier. Qualifier before the word like we see now, like gay Christian. Like you don't go in there and be like, "I'm a porn addicted Christian," >> you know, and look at you funny. >> And like I don't go in there and be like, "Yeah, I'm a fornicating Christian," you know? Yeah. Did I sin and fornicate before I was married? Absolutely. And it was kind of funny. I was talking to a family member who's like a I would say they're they're trying to find a way to believe. They have their ways of believing that. I I kind of differ with them doctrally, but we're talking about a family member. They're about to get married and um they both the husband and the soon tobe wife both the son soon the fiances have never had sex like they are going to come into their marriage both virgins and the other person was like kind of astonished by this like can you believe it they've never had sex and I was like you know what I think that's awesome >> I was like that is a quality that we don't see anymore um nobody respects sex the way the Bible wants us to respect sex and what it's kind of made for and I was like what those two have done is amazing. And they kind of were like, "Yeah, yeah, I see what you're talking about." But, you know, like the other people that have done that, like they're still Christians. I was like, I called myself a Christian and I went out and I had I had sex before marriage, but like was I truly a Christian? Should we be calling ourselves Christians if we're going to go out there and we're going to say that what we're doing is okay? You know, because I might as well put a qualifier in front of that because right now at any church you go to, you put you can put a qualifier on there. they should be able to take you in lovingly, you know, um especially if you're going to some of these uh other churches. But like that's the thing, the qualifiers that we have now, you can't just be Christian anymore. You have to have something plus Christian. >> And it's it's it's got to go away. >> Well, I I went to a church here in Edmund a long time ago. And and what I loved about the pastor, every Sunday he would get up and I think I've said this before on a prior episode where he he would introduce every sermon he would he would introduce himself and he would say, "I my life is proof that we need Jesus." And that was just like really refreshing that he would tell people that every Sunday. like he wasn't uh hey, I'm up here and I and I I have it all together and I know stuff and if your life is messed up and you want to get right on track, I'll be down in the lobby after service and I'll help you get what I've got. It was like, hey, like I mean I'm messed up and the only the only good thing about me that I have to get up here and say is that is that I have Jesus and I know Jesus, you know, and and the the thing that we don't it's that evidence of are they continuing to live in that of going back and earlier in this chapter where it says, you know, do you think you're going to escape the judgment of God or do you presume on the riches of his kindness? Yeah. >> Not knowing that God's kindness isn't permission to continue down that road. God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. So if you are if if you are using it as a get out of jail free card or permission slip to sin because because God has has extended he is both just but he's also merciful. Man, you are abusing what what the intent there is. is the intent is that you should have it a conviction on your heart. I believe that you do, right? I I believe like when I when I fall and you know if if I get short with my wife on the phone and I hang up, I immediately I may not want to call her and say I'm sorry, but I know I should. >> Right? Like it's there. Um, and it's meant for me to part of that is like we got to transition towards repentance, right? Like if you if you stay where you are or get worse, bad. If you take a step towards repentance, that's what God's kindness is extended to you for. >> I don't think there's any neutrality in the Christian life. You don't you can't stay the same, right? Or you're sli sliding backwards. I was just sitting here thinking about too, you were talking about the alcoholism and and other things. Um, there was a a book came out a long time by go by Jerry Bridges called Respectable Sins. There are a lot of things that we engage in that God hates. I mean, I pulled up uh Proverbs 16, is that right? Was it 16? Uh, six 16-19 talks about what God hates. It says hotty eyes, lying tongue and false witness, hands that shed innocent blood, hearts that deise, wicked schemes, feet that that quickly rush into evil and stirring up conflict. I mean, uh, and I think about the things that we, you know, talked to like my kids about this and just even in my Sunday school class about, you know, there are there are there things in your life that really should make you blush, but they no longer make you blush. Are there things that should bother you but >> that you're like you're kind of halfway okay with now? Are there things that maybe you didn't used to laugh at but now you laugh at them but they're clearly wrong? You know that it's it's funny how Satan one of his tricks is to get us to laugh at sin and guess laugh at sin and it's somehow magically okay. Um but those those kind of things um I think have got to be dealt with. I I remember my um a guy that used to mentor me and this will maybe I don't know if they'll blow you away like it blew me away but I remember like we would share like he would say yeah what's God you know how how God's is is he speaking to you in the last week or two or what where is he moving your heart you know when we'd talk about those kinds of things and I remember him sitting there and this was not it wasn't for show what he was just talking he's like man you know God's really kind of been on me about what I eat he's not fat he's in shape. But but where he was coming at it from, he was like, you know, I just I wonder sometimes, you know, God was kind of convicting me about why are you eating? Are you eating for comfort? Um are you eating, you know, because you're upset? You know, what what is your reason for eating? And um and how much you eating, whatever. And I just remember sitting there in my mind, I didn't say anything, but I was like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like I've got like things that are way bigger fish to fry here on the whole sin list." and he's talking about like whether he has an extra serving of such and such, you know, um, and how God is kind of bringing him under obedience and that. Um, and it just made me think like like this guy is way more mature along the road, further along the road than I am if he's dealing with those things. Uh, and I'm not. So I, you know, I think about like maturity level and fruit that we have and um show over time just how in it should be that I I would think and I don't know but it should be that as we get older we should becoming more mature and God should be working on things that are a little bit more like that rather than us still having to deal with the big issues as um as we get older. >> Yeah. I think the the sanctification process like if you were so if you're fornicating and then you get saved and 10 years later you run into a guy that was there right when you got saved and right when you got saved one of the first things you were telling your first disciple or a guy that was discipling you or something like that like hey I'm struggling with fornicating I keep having sex with women that aren't my wife if we're 10 years in the road down the road and you're still doing that same thing because I mean you're you're bringing up stuff from earlier in Romans 2 Dan where it's talking about you know basic you know judgment and then down in On that day when according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Essentially without judgment, salvation has no meaning. Right? Because saved from what? Right? There has to be a separation at some point. Like what are we separating these people from? Like and and that's something that I think people don't really reckon with. >> I had a close friend and uh I kind of talked to you guys about him during break and um this kind of came to our falling out. We were uh we we we had a very debaucherous teenage year, college year, you know, it was all about girls, you know, and we're married, we have kids now. Uh I just moved back to Oklahoma and uh we meet up for dinner. I hadn't seen him in years. And uh we're talking about everything and he goes, "Hey, man." And he's probably done this like multiple years. He goes, "Uh," he goes, "Dude, we always take this trip and we go hang out here, but we like hit every strip club in the city. Like, you need to come with us. It'll be fun." And I was like, "Man, I don't do that stuff in you. I don't do that anymore." Like, I'm married, you know. I I just uh you know, I'm a Christian. I actually become like a reformed Baptist, you know, and he's like, "You're a holy roller now." And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "You should you like come to church with me or like I can help you find a church or something like that." And he's like, "I don't know. I'll talk to you about it." Finished dinner. Never heard from him again. Yeah. Never heard from him again. Have I reached out to him? I actually I have not. Uh part of me like wants to reach out to him, but part of me wanted to mature more in in my walk, you know, because there's there's a lot of past and there's a lot of stuff that we went through together as brothers, you know. um that uh I just don't want to if I want to be strong enough to go down that path, you know, like he's not somebody I would go and like travel with at all, you know, because as strong as I think I am, you know, you never know what a two whisies could do. And you know, I always tell myself when I travel, when I travel now, I don't drink as much anymore because I just don't want to be in the position where I could be in a bad position, you know, because where I can not only hurt people that I've talked to within my faith. Um, one of the things I've talked to my wife about too, you know, because I travel a lot, you know, is cheating, you know, and I was just like, you know what, for me, it's not what I want to do. I'm a loyal person. But two, I go, not only would I let you and the kids down, the thing that crushes me the most is letting her dad down and like the fact that he gave me his daughter, his gift, and that I were to treat that gift in that way, like I don't know, it just tears my heart, you know? So like I could never see I could never look her dad in the eye if I ever did something like that. >> Well, you know, even above that, you mean don't want to let God down. >> No. Yeah. Well, absolutely. I don't want to let God down or my faith. But it's like those are the things that I think about. And so when I think about this guy, you know, and I think about this thing is like you've got to We've all been down this path. We've all been down this road. We don't as as believers now, we don't identify by that anymore. What we identify is by Christ and in Christ alone. And I think that's what he's trying to get back here. in regards to judgment of the law is like if I want to look at my past without Christ and go down the continued path in the future, I may do good things, but I'm still sinning whether I know the law or I don't know the law. >> That's right. Well, let's actually keep this going. Romans 2. Um, Don, if you will read Romans 2, we'll do 17 through 24. But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent because you are instructed from the law. And if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth. You then who teaches others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abore idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law? For as it is written, the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. >> Yeah, I think uh we may get all the way through uh chapter 2 here. I don't want to rush it, but I think really the point of this section really 17 through the end of the chapter through 29 is it debunks this illusion that religiosity works. Right? Again, he's hammering the same drum. So, if you hate repetitive messaging, you're already frustrated these first couple of chapters in because he's keep he just keeps banging on this drum. And part of the reason why he's doing this, it may be, you know, a derivative of what I do. Like whenever I speak live, everyone knows I speak really, really fast, but I have no idea when someone's going to be paying attention. But I know for sure it's not 100% of the time. It's just not possible. Like people can't, it doesn't matter what speaker is up on stage and what they're talking about. It's impossible to keep someone's attention 100% of the time for the entirety of their speech. So I I leave a lot of hooks in the water. Some people build a speech around a single story or a single like climactic event or something like that and maybe that that works for them. But I drop a bunch of hooks in the water cuz I just don't know when you're going to be hungry, when you're going to be biting, when you're going to be paying attention. And so I feel like we're getting a little bit of that with with Paul. But as he's drilling down on religiosity, he's getting more specific, right? because he's already used in Romans 1, he's used some examples of sin, like sin categories, but now he's talking about all these people where he's I feel like he's trying to stamp out all the embers of fires that people might, you know, try to blow on and and get to come back up. Well, wait a minute. Like, you know, I'm an instructor or, you know, I I teach children or, you know, I have this knowledge and truth and wisdom that I'm I'm trying to give off to other people. Um, and but then it's just like, well, hey, you preach against stealing, but do you steal? It's a it's a great question to ask, right? It's why uh I think you brought this up last week, Ryan. It's why when a big Christian uh leader or pastor sins sexually, everyone goes back to their sermons of where they were talking about sexual depravity and goes, "Oh, yeah." And they turn the mirror on them and be like, "You sure?" RC Sproul. He was Yeah. He was in, you know, this, you know, this app where he was having affairs and different things like that. >> RC Sproul Jr., >> not RC Sproul. It was RC Sproul Jr. It >> was RC Sproul Jr., not RC Sproul. Okay, >> I'm I'm 100% sure on that. >> Okay, he's looking it up. Okay, so I didn't I don't want to speak out of turn, so you you go and look that up because it was a it was an app. Uh >> it was a dating app. >> Dating app. >> Yeah, it's RC Sproul Jr. >> Uh >> Ashley Madison. >> Yep. >> Okay. It wasn't RC Sproul. >> RC Sproul Jr. 2016. I just wanted to take you for the correction there. >> Well, I should have gone with the one that everyone would have been easy. Robbie Zacharias. I don't think Robbie Zachari had any issues. So a guy like Robbie Zachcharias where you know people get have some issues. They're like oh crap I was saved at an RZIM event and it seems like this guy was you know incredibly depraved person sexually but it feels like Paul is working his way into the different categories. He's like he's like a good what a good salesman would do. He's he's seeing the objection before it comes and he's addressing it before it can be voiced. It just seems like what he's working through. >> Well he's working through the Mosaic law too right there. He's just saying, "Okay, yeah, this you guys are going to be justified by the Mosaic law." Well, wait a second. Don't you guys steal? Don't you guys commit adultery? Right? He's trying to hammer them down on that. >> Well, like look at it. The Jews are the only nation to actually receive the law of God. So, he's showing that that the Jews receive the law of God. So, they've got the details of the law even though the Gentiles have the morality of the law written on their hearts. So, he's still kind of showing a justification there. But then he's also talking about like what Kyle said is that and what you've said Eric is that they still break the law and now these Gentiles look at them like hey you talk about you know not fornicating or anything like that or yeah you may not do that but I swear I saw you you know doing this or looking at this person or acting in this way you know it doesn't even matter whether it's like hey I didn't talk about fornication maybe they're stealing you know they're breaking the law no matter what and that that's the hard part part about it is like the church is made up of people >> and people are sinful no matter who they are. Pastors pastors are included in that. They're going to sin. Now, their sin may have different consequences. Their sin could redeem them to the body but not to the pulpit, right? >> You know, um and there's a lot of instances of that. Robert Morris is one to to to kind of point out is that, you know, he was a pastor when he committed his sin. >> He should have never have been redeemed to the pulpit. The sin that he did is unredeemable to the pulpit, but his repentance of that sin redeems him back to the body. And he should partake in the body of Christ and use his sin to teach and talk about that repentance, which I would hope he's done as he was a pastor, even though he lied about that sin a lot in some of his sermons. Uh, kind of dressed it up a little bit. But that's the thing that we have to we have to come to terms with is that the church isn't going to be perfect because the church is made up of a body of people. And the only way the church is perfect is that when people know that they do sin, they go to Christ for repentance and that that's where their justification lies, not in their deeds. >> So at the end of 24, does anybody where it says, "For it is written, the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." Did anybody look up >> what's the reference? Yeah. >> What's the reference first? >> No, I didn't look that up. I did look up hypocrisy and um the reason people either leave the church or reject God and and the overwhelming reason was hypocrisy. >> Yeah. Well, what my point was that was you know this is that was Paul's referencing something that was written before he wrote Romans. Um and this is this is a long time ago and we are still dealing with that issue in our church today. kind of like, you know, where how many people how many people don't go to church because of a Christian that they know >> has set a bad example of of what it means to be a Christian and that person's not leading a life any different than mine. So, what's the difference? Right? And I think like when I was man, we we roast people for things that you know that you want to run for political office when you're 35, you better not have told a dirty joke when you were in seventh grade, right? >> Because it's disqualified you. Like we don't care that >> we're idiots and we mature and change and and and grow up. >> We don't care about that nowadays. And and I was an idiot. Like I went I went to church. I Bartlesville, Oklahoma, First Baptist Church. I was on at church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. I went to K Life on Tuesday nights. Uh like I was doing the thing right. And in those places I was saying the right stuff, but I was also an immature, insecure kid with a sharp wit and really sarcastic. And I heard a lot of people's feelings. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like even back then it's probably like why would I want anything to do with First Baptist Bartlesville when this idiot Degan Boyd is going there like like you know like we it's amazing. I I I want to look up that reference like how long we've been dealing with this problem. >> It's Isaiah 52:5. >> Wow. >> Can you read it? >> Can you read it? Yeah, >> I sure can. >> Now therefore what I have here, declares the Lord, seeing that my peoples are taken away from nothing. Their rulers whale, declares the Lord, and continually all the day my name is despised. >> I I I think back to the pastor that you talked about who said, you know, like this is me. Like I'm I'm not this great person, you know, and like I I think I it was in Sproul's commentary, we claim more righteousness than we possess. >> And like think about that like as as as people who are supposed to be examples of to non-believers. Where does our righteousness come from? Because a lot of us and even I have been guilty of this believe that our righteousness is done by our hand. And when we show our depravity and we and we humble ourselves to that depravity and say that our righteousness comes from Christ, what does that show that person? It and that's how we we have to come across because you you bring up the First Baptist of Bartlesville. I I actually there's a funny story. Uh somebody I went to high school with um was friends with my wife's friend and she ran into her and she goes she goes, "Do you know that girl right there?" And she's like, "Yeah, that's my friend." Uh and she's like, "Did she marry Ryan Horn?" And she's like, "Yeah." She's like, "Why?" >> Wow. >> And like And then Yeah. And then my wife and her friend come and talk to me. And I'm like, "Who is this person?" They're like, "This person, you know, I'm not going to say their name." And uh I was like she has every right to feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and her her friend's like, "Really?" I was like, "Oh, I was horrible in high school. >> Horrible. I wouldn't even call myself a Christian in high school." You know, um it was all about me. It was all about, you know, if I had any righteousness, it was all self-righteousness. And so, that's the thing we have to think about when we look at non-believers and we look at people wanting to come into the church. They're already self-seekers. They're already they're already seeking themselves. Now, if we show our humbleness to God and say that our righteousness does not come by our acts or what we do, our righteousness comes from Christ Jesus and we humble ourselves before our sin and we repent of it and we make it known. That's going to say a lot more than, "Hey, look at all the good things." >> Absolutely. And I I think that I anybody that's listening, I feel like Jesus didn't die on a cross so we could feel better about ourselves. the the the issue with sin that Jesus came to die on a cross for wasn't to keep us from the hurt that sin causes. It was to glorif bring glory to God. Like knowing Jesus and accepting Jesus brings God glory. That's the point. It's not to make you feel better about your circumstances. It's not to make you feel like what you've done is over. And I mean those types of things will are a byproduct of faith but they are not the reason Jesus came. Jesus came to glorify to in saving us bring glory to the father. >> Well and then in saying that like I forget what you know the quote exactly but it's like if you see anything beautiful or lovely in me it's cuz you're seeing Christ in me in that moment. Right. And so cuz that's the thing. So the way I started talking about it was maybe in my 20s, I would try to help people that were like, "Man, I just don't feel like I'm any farther along." But I'm like, "Hey, look back on who you were 5 years ago. Are you better? Are you a better version of you than you were by that guy or that gal?" And so it's like cuz I think you should always be able to look at who you were 5 years ago and be a little bit embarrassed, right? Wait, I thought that. Wait, that I thought I was good at that. Wait, I thought that was cool. Like, wait, I think you should always look back and just be a little bit embarrassed because if you start getting to the point where you're looking at who you were 5 years ago and going like, "Yeah, that guy's got it going on. You guys got a lot of really good points." >> Which is weird for me because my show started like seven or eight years ago. And so, if you go back to like episode one, it's like, "Yay." Like, I hear people, they'll ask me a question about like episode 17. I'm like, "Bro, I don't even know if my brain was fully developed whenever I was saying what I was saying. So, please just take it with a grain of salt." But before we get out of here, we'll go just a little bit longer on this one because the narrative really doesn't stop at 24. I want to just continue through the end of chapter 2. So Browning, if you'll go and wrap up chapter 2. We're reading Romans chapter 2 25- 29. >> For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law. But if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the pre precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code in circumcision but will break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely outwardly nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inward and circumcision is a matter of the heart by the spirit not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. So the obvious implication here is that circumcision is spiritual. Right? Now in every other context we think of it as circumcision as physical right because you know maybe >> because of the Abrahamic covenant >> right you have the Abrahamic covenant you've got um you know even just for any of us that have had sons typically in modernity people will get their sons circumcised. So there's the whole healing process and so it all feels very physical but obviously in this context the Jews were circumcised as to show a sign of the covenant right and so that again I feel like he's stomping out all the embers that are out there to be like hey by the way you might be about to say ha I am circumcised sir right so dot dot dot whatever that means right I've been baptized I go to Sunday school I give money to the church I've done nice things and again you're leaning towards an Islamic view which is I need or there are a lot of different worldviews but Islam certainly where you need your good deeds to outweigh your bad deeds and and that's the the ideology and the scaffolding for how I guess that would you know basically be your sotiology which is like I'm good right so that's where I get my view on how I am saved and we we just don't get there um you know so I well just real quick I I can't remember I think this was a scroll commentary which By the way, why did I say RC Sproul? What's wrong with me? Like, what a loser. I should get owned by that in the comment section that I don't read. Can't believe I didn't say RC Sproul Jun, man. Bring it up whenever it's most embarrassing for me cuz I deserve that one. But like, uh, so I think it was in Sproul's commentary, which is, uh, which is fantastic, but he talked about 25 through 29 is describing dead Orthodoxy. Yeah. So, you're trying to be Orthodox, but it's dead. And there was a really, uh, funny term. It's outside Christianity. Yeah. >> So, people think like, oh, no, this is an inside out Christianity. So that could be baptism where it's an inside uh uh you know inside your soul revelation but you're expressing it outwardly through baptism. This argument is all outside out. No it's like hey look at my foreskin. >> Yeah I'm in the club. That's the thing that's the thing that he that's the thing he points out and like and I'm I read more deeper into his commentary and he points out Abraham was justified by his faith. >> He goes he was justified by his faith. That's what justified him. Now, the circumcision was an outward act to to set Israel apart from everybody else. The cut to cut them out. Like that's that's what it was. It's an outward It's an outward saying showing that they're under God's covenant. But he wasn't justified by his circumcision. He was justified by his faith. And that's what we have to realize here and your your friend that you talk to about baptism is you're justified by your faith alone. Anybody can get dipped in water and say they're baptized, but like let's say they go down a road where they blaspheme God. That baptism means nothing because they are they're they're inwardly they're unbaptized. >> Yeah, I've been baptized twice. I was baptized as a kid because they were like, "Hey, you want to get baptized next week?" And I'm like, "Well, I think there's a chance we'll get Carl Jr. afterwards." So, absolutely. That's what my sixth grade brain said. But then as a 10th grader, as a 15-year-old, that was believers baptism. Like there was no like I remember to this day I got dunked and as soon as I got out I did like a whole fist bump and I didn't know that was like like that was just what I felt in that moment but I got talk to people afterwards that are like oh man like this is so cool because but again I still have my knuckle dragon uh moments in high school and people would be like yeah I don't really know about that kid but you know it's a whole process. What were you going to say Degan? Well, you had you had brought up you said the word stomped out and that made me think of like I I feel like Paul, you know, I mean, how many sermons has he given before he wrote this letter and how many books has he written and how many letters and and like he knows the objections? He knows the traps that people are going to set for him. He knows the arguments >> and the questions that he's going to get. And so he is just it's like he's writing this and he's got this giant list of all the objections and arguments he's ever compiled and he's just checking the box. Can't no nope. And then they get to the end, >> you know, he starts out in the beginning of this saying for you. No one has an excuse. And I know that people are reading that letter and being like, "Oh, I've got a question for Paul." And then it like gets to the bottom of, you know, 29 and they're like, "Well, dad gum it." Like he went through he named them all. There isn't anybody else with an argument left. And >> go ahead, please. >> Yeah, I was going to say that, you know, when you said the word faith earlier, just as a clarification, not to you, but just to people that are listening, that he was justified by faith, but that faith was not word alone. It was actionable. It brought up to in my mind Matthew 7:21-23. It says, "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father who is in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do mighty works in your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." >> So, there are going to be a lot of people that give lip service to Jesus or even do quote unquote good things. But there are not going well, they're going to be a lot of people >> that have only given them lip service and have not given them their faith, their actionable faith. You know, and I think about that there's an old shirt a long time ago with a guy basically repelling off the side of a mountain. It says faith is only faith until it's the only thing you're hanging on to. So those moments where um things are rough like how do you respond in those moments? How are you responding to the hope that God has put in you? And that's where and that's like if we go deeper into Abraham like we did in Genesis is that you look at this part of Abraham and his faith is that he ended up uh making the sacrifices where he cut the ram in half, the birds in half and he cut them in half and then he split them down and then he was put to sleep by God and God literally promised on there's nothing else that God could promise on other than himself. And so he walked through that fire was his promise and so >> God justified his faith. Yeah. in that in that in his actions and in what he's done. So yeah, I I'm glad that you brought that up. But yeah, it just shows even deeper how God moved through Abraham. >> But Abraham left his country to go somewhere that God said. He was like, "Okay, here I go. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going to go." >> Well, and as as we put a bow on Romans 2, again, we all kind of have the thought in our pro or the thought in our minds now of he's trying to stomp these things out. He's got he's working on on his objections. We're going to start our journey into chapter 3 next week. But when you skip ahead, I don't know when we're when we're going to get there, but chapter 3 verse, you know, 10 and 11, as it is written, none is righteous, know not one, no one understands, no one seeks God, which hearkens back to Psalm 14:es 1-3. This is Psalm of David. The fool says in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt. They do abominable deeds. There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside. Together, they have become corrupt. There is none who does good, not even one. And so, at some point in this blistering introduction, which is technically where we're still at, we're still barely outside the greeting. Paul is basically setting up, none of you are righteous. None of you are righteous. And then we're going to get into the most complete and thorough description of the gospel and the reasons for it and how you can have it perhaps in in the entirety of the New Testament, certainly in the Pauline letter. So, uh, last thoughts on Romans 2 before we roll out. I know we went a little longer on this one, but I think it was appropriate. >> I wish we could just get Matt Chandler to say, "No one is righteous." Like he said, "You're not David." >> I bet he could. That would be great. Maybe we could call. Yeah. >> Let's see if I can FaceTime him right now. We'll see if we can do that. >> Okay. >> Should I say his number on the air? >> No, don't do that to him. >> That's not a good idea. >> Don't let him know I'm here cuz I know I'm about his favorite. So, >> yeah. >> Oh, is that not it? >> Come on. What do you want me to ask? >> Ask Jenny. >> Oh, what do you want? >> Ask him. Ask him if you say, you know how he said you're not David. Can you say that no one is righteous? >> Okay. >> Not one of you is righteous. Hi. >> How's it going? He's just staring at >> He's not happy. >> Where are you? Where are you? >> He's on an airplane, it looks like. >> No, not at all. I'm on a highspeed train to Kyoto. >> Oh, nice. >> Oh, in Japan. Okay. Fancy pants. What were you trying to get? Hey, we're recording right now. We're live. Uh, I'm trying to get you to say something. Don't worry, we won't get you in trouble. What am I trying to get him to say? >> So, I just like how he told a whole congregation that they were not David. >> Yeah. I just need him to tell everybody on air that they are not righteous. >> Okay. So, we're talking about righteousness, Matt. And so, we want everybody in the world to know that just like they're not David. Oh, connection unstable. Just like they're not David, that they're not righteous. So, in your best big boy voice, can you tell everyone on the planet that they're not righteous? >> Yeah. I can't use my big boy voice. I think you missed the part where I told you I was on a train. >> This was a great gospel moment. Not for me. >> You can't hide. You're 6' five. Just say it. >> Tell him he can blame horn for this one again. >> Sitting down and you're not righteous. No one is. That's what the book says. >> Did you hear that? >> Do you hear everybody? All right. You heard it from the from the word. You heard it from All right. Could you just give us something loud like >> Oh, we're losing it. >> All right. The internet's not great in Japan. >> Yeah. He's on a high speed. >> Just read Romans. >> Read. That's what we're doing. >> Not giving you anything loud. It's culturally >> I think he was about to say it's culturally insensitive uh to scream in Japan, which I can say that even MMA fans in Japan don't scream loud. But I will tell you where they will go nuts is a baseball game. But guys, we really appreciate you being here for this batch. We made it through Romans 2. We are coming back here next week for Romans 3:1. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Adam Don life mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges a spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Crossway starter set. You know, we've got this awesome Crossway starter set for you guys. There's five amazing books that you can get at a 50% discount. Go to the show notes to check that out. Also, we've got the Logos Bible software that you guys can get at a tremendous and amazing discount. And we are a donationbased ministry. So, if any of you guys want to help support anybody around the world getting this content, we need your help. We need monthly donors. So, hop on board and be a donor. Check it out in the show notes. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@unton.life. That's info@undanton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undon.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]