This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Degan. That's Ryan Brownie. Why did I hit you? >> Well, you I did not hit the timer literally within 1 second of me starting. >> No, my I was about 47 words into my intro. Like, we don't need to go back and check the tape. >> That's literally if you're on like three speed. You do you realize the people that have been listening to us for months don't realize how we can be this stupid? Like all of us like as a collective group, regardless of who's here, we can't get this little thing either to work properly or people to remember to actually hit the button. So fired, first of all, Dean, you're in Dean's not going to do it cuz I do it right every time. >> There's a reason I didn't ask you. >> Why? >> Because we got to get somebody else out of the bullpen. You can't have one guy coming out of the bullpen that can throw strikes. You need other people that can hop out of the bullpen. >> I thought you hitting Eric was like one of those Hollywood like >> Yeah. Well, usually we have >> I always forget that. Sorry, Landon. Yeah, I forget that every time. >> You got the Eric's shoulder. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Cuz you got to have the to like, you know, focus in and be like, "All right, this is the point." They were supposed to do that at the end. But our editor, you know, God bless Landon, he knows how stupid I am. And so, it's just like the fact that I have anything recording at all right now, which I'm still not even sure. The buttons are lighting up. Maybe that's good. Maybe that's bad. Yeah, it's a bad deal. But you know what? >> Does Landon ever get annoyed of us since he has to edit all of these? >> There is a 0% chance that he doesn't. Like there's uh maybe a better way to say that more clear would have been there's 100% chance that he does. Uh because he's a very patient man. I will say that. And so like well cuz like I will ask him like imagine in your world like whatever you do for a living. So like Browning, you help people that get injured get better and you know you help them with their their you know physical uh recovery and all that type of stuff. Imagine someone coming into your office and being like, "What's this?" And they're referring to their arm. Like that's the type of questions that I ask of Landon. He's like, "What's this do?" And he's like, you know, just imagine somebody that dumb coming into your place of business and being like, "Well, how does this work?" Right? Cuz that's basically what I do with him at all times. >> Yeah. So, he finds you annoying. I think we're all safe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that's that's actually a really good point. But, uh, Browning, I will give you >> trust me with your toe in the future now. >> Yeah. I will say, man, I got this toe problem, but we we got to figure this out. You know what? Cuz I remember I don't know if I talked about this on the show before, but like I remember whenever Deion Sanders was the quarterback on the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, this is in the 90s or something like that. And I remember him missing a game cuz his toe was hurt. And I'm like, "Oh, you poor little toe. Your toes hurt. You got tough toe. You hurt your little toe until I blasted my big toe into the mat doing jiu-jitsu and jammed it. And then I'm like, "Oh, all right. Yeah, you can't really do anything on that toe." and quarterbacks kind of have to do the whole left right thing, backwards forwards thing. Have to kind of be fast and reactionary. So, my bad, Dion, if you're watching this right now, I'm super sorry. I mean, your team's awful, but at the same time, it's like you were really good back in the day. I'm sorry. I'll talk to my >> Cowboys were good only in the '90s. >> Yeah, they were only good in the '90s. Hey, shout out to all the Cowboys fans out there. You talk about longsuffering. I mean, nothing's worse than Nothing Nothing's worse than the Cubs. Let's be honest, cuz the Cubs never had glory. The Cubs in the '90s is your new uh your new life right now with the >> Cardinals. I see the thing is is y'all's rebuild takes a century and the Cardinals it might take him three or four seasons. So, it's slightly different, but but Browning, I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. >> Okay. Okay. >> I This called grace. >> Yeah, this is grace. So, we are we are displaying grace in this moment before we get to the start of a new chapter because it only took us 12 hours to get through Romans 1. So, we've been very efficient up to this point. But you sent the group a video of a pretty funny game and we don't, you know, we're always very serious on the forging table. We never have jokes. No inside jokes. We're never playing games, but I figured we would take a slight detour. Uh, and do you have that game on your phone? Okay. Cuz I I was trying to explain to somebody else and I did a very poor job of it. So like, and we have no affiliation with this app or anything like that. I don't know the name of it, but So what is the name of this app and and how does it work? >> Yeah, it's called reverse play. Reverse play. >> It's not super hard to understand. Show the people at home. >> Yeah. Look at this. >> All right. So, what we're all doing what all the land. >> Landon, zoom in. >> He's unable to. He's not here right now. We're just screaming at him in the future. Go ahead. >> I'll make him my peanut butter and John. >> Oh. So, hey, you're going to pick anything you want to say or sing. I would I would highly encourage you not to make it long or complicated. Um, and then you're going to record it. So, you want me to do that? You want me to do like an example? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, all right. >> Wait. All right. >> So, we're hit record. Stand by me. Okay, now I have just recorded that, right? >> Yeah. Cross between me and Jesus. >> And now I'm going to play the recorded. >> I don't know if that came through, but >> turn that up a little bit and play it again. >> I turn Oh, yeah. We forgot. You don't know how your phone works. So, let me uh Yeah. >> All right. Here we go. >> Stand by me. >> It's beautiful again, even when it's not live. Okay. Now, >> so then we're going to play it in reverse. >> Okay. What? >> And then I am supposed to record myself saying that and then play it in reverse again. >> You have somebody else do it. So you're So you have to record it in reverse. You should have somebody else record it. >> You can do that, too. Yeah, it's >> Okay, make Ryan do it. So Ryan, listen again. Listen for the >> Here it play into the >> Okay, play it into the mic. So you're listening in reverse right now. >> So now you do it. No, you have to record. >> You hit record at the top and then do it. So, hit start recording. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> You do it again like >> my play in reverse. Play in reverse. >> That's not bad. That is not bad. Ryan, have you played this game? >> No, I have not. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Slam on me. Sound like I'm drinking. >> Okay. >> I got this one for Kyle. I got this one for Kyle. You guys ready? >> Mhm. >> If I die young, bury me inside. >> We can't lie. You got You got to >> do it. Way too long. >> You're going to make me go next. I barely understand. >> Just Just do the first part. Just do the first. >> Just let I I got it. I got it. I got it. >> If I die young, bury me in satin. Lay me down on a bed of roses. >> Impossible. >> What am I? That's impossible. >> Play it reverse. Play it reverse. >> Okay, so play play. Okay, >> we can do it in parts. >> Okay. Shoot. All right, everybody shut up so I can concentrate for the next 47 seconds. Here we go. >> Why does it sound like you're singing in Arabic? Okay, let me get >> possible. >> Okay, I'm just going to try to get if I if I sound like a sing song in the >> Wait, wait, everybody, shut up. That's a really funny That's a deep cut joke right there. Okay, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. >> What? Where do you even start? Where do you start? I got one for you here in a second. Just hang on. I got to play this for the third time. I can't even Oh, okay. Here we go. Good grief. Why did I do this? I'm trying to find a section to do just to do one section and I can't. Okay, I'm just do the first part. >> All right, here we go. Is that close? >> I think that's B of roses, but I >> All right, let's see if I got it perfectly. >> You got to play it reverse. Godly. Okay. All right. Here. Play it in reverse. That was actually in reverse. >> I totally set you up. I totally set you up. >> Okay. Well, I got one for you. >> All right. Ready? Yeah. Let's do this. >> All the time I turn around. Always brothers got around. Always looking at me up and down. Looking at my You talked about Fergie earlier. There you go. Just gave you some Fergie. >> Is that Is that Humps? >> I I think so. >> Yeah. Does it matter? >> Like, you know, humps in reverse. Oh yeah. Yeah. I've been pract all the time. >> Play it in reverse. Play in reverse. Then we >> want to do it one more time. I heard nipples. Yeah. >> Okay. Is that reverse? >> Oh, the nipples went away. >> Yeah, I played it in reverse. >> Oh my gosh, this isn't even Okay, we got to go back to the way that Browning did it. >> Okay. >> Okay, so we we got to give Degan a chance here. So, Ryan, let's let's you me come up. What's something? Okay, hit it. >> Short. >> Just short. Yeah. >> Stop. Collaborate and listen. >> I think we got a chance. I think we got a chance here. Nicely done. Okay, so play the reverse into the mic. And there >> heck out >> really hard. >> Wait. Okay. Wonder if it didn't record right. >> Uh, play record. >> Yeah. Stop. Collaborate and listen. >> Yeah. All right. Nitsk Russian vanilla. >> That's what I heard. That's what I was hearing. >> Okay. Here we go. All right. Play reverse. >> Play reverse. >> Yep. >> Now that sounds like uh Hitler. Okay. So, I don't know how. >> Hold on. Let me play it in forward. >> It sounds the same. Listen. Reverse. Listen. I heard listen. >> Yeah. >> I feel like we got to get some. Okay. We need to go back to the well here from the beginning. Oh, you going to do one? >> I'm going to do one. Who am I doing it for? >> Do it for me. I'll do it. >> Okay. Come on, Brownie. >> I'm the only one that's gotten one. >> You're the only one that was close. >> Happy birthday to you. >> Okay, come on. We got this. Annunciate for you. Sean Molany sing. Yeah, you can give it a few times. Give it a few plays. Wish dirt bag. >> That's not sound like you call somebody a dbag. >> I might have bag. >> Try it. >> All right. Here we go. >> That's pretty close. >> That's not pretty close. >> I'm not going to say what I think that sounds like, but you know, it's close enough. I think everyone's, you know, knowing what I'm doing. I was about to say we got to go back to the well and give you and Ryan Horn one more shot, but I think that might be a good place to What do we want to do? Do we want to double or nothing and try to give Ryan another chance or do do we want to take take the house money? >> I don't care. >> What do you think? What do you think, Browning? >> Let's do one more time. Do one more time. >> Okay. Just for you two cuz y'all had the absolute best. So give Ryan something. >> Oh man. Uh okay. Silent night. Holy night. >> There you go. Come on, Ryan. You're the best of us. Let's go. Mhm. Mhm. >> N The thing you at least got. What was that? The melody or whatever. You got it. Melody was there. All right. >> All right. >> All right. I'm taking Oh, we were we keeping this going or we >> Oh, I thought he had to redeem himself, too, cuz he was close. >> I think you're back here. >> Oh, no. >> Well, it ends with me. Okay. So, it's either going to be an absolute colossal train wreck. >> Try to say something this time instead of singing. No, the singing makes that makes you got to sing. >> I like big butts and just see what that sounds like. >> I'm not singing that. >> Just you remember how impossible Fergie was just a second ago when I did it like >> Yeah. Next dude's going to throw out the thong song. So >> this is going off the This is going off the rails. Hey, speaking of thong song, while you think of the song you want to do, uh, who has a thong song story? But it when that but that came out when I was in like fourth or fifth grade. So Magic 95 95.3 in London, Oklahoma. For whatever reason, the DJ that was on from like 6 to 10 o'clock that day decided as a joke, this is right when the song came out, he played the song straight for 4 hours. And at the time, everyone loved the song. So, we're just getting down thinking it was the most hilarious thing in the world. So, whoever knows who that DJ was that did that back in the day when Thong song by Cisco came out. Shout out to that guy. I was just delaying the inevitable here because I'm not looking forward to this. So, here we go. Black hole sun. Okay, here we go. All right, play in reverse. >> Wow. Why are some smooth and some absolutely impossible Yiddish garbage? Okay, here we go. I got an easier one. Can I do an easier one? >> Yes. All right. I was I was about to give it a go, but I had no I had nothing. Okay. >> Oh, restart. >> Futures made of virtual insanity. >> Wow. >> Well, it's going to have wow in there now. >> Yeah, of course. How do you know that's easier? >> What is that? Is that Jiraqu treadmill? Do I need to walk on a treadmill now? That that's going to be way worse. Okay, here we go. freaking. Oh my gosh, >> that's easier. >> How is that easier than black hole? All right. >> Punisher. SNF. Nerf >> Oh, I was just playing it. Sorry, that wasn't >> that was like that was way worse. I'm I'm struggling. Okay, here we go. >> You got it. You know, we need to play it again. All right, lean into it. Let's go. >> Insanity. >> Let's go. >> Let's go. Okay. >> What would make that game better is if there was like a hidden button that when you got it and did it in reverse that it like sang the song >> perfectly. So you think you're actually awesome at it. >> People would be like, "What in the world?" >> They already got stuff like that for AI getting it all squared away. >> That's an update for that. >> Check that out. So yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. World, what was the name of that app for anybody that wants to get that embarrass their friends? >> Yeah, reverse play. >> Reverse play. It's got three buttons. So, uh, you can apparently, it took me 15 minutes to figure out how it worked, but guys, we're moving on in the, uh, Book of Romans. So, you know, I I think >> I remember when we were all sitting on the back porch, uh, Ryan, you weren't there for whatever reason. You were doing something, writing songs on your guitar or whatever. I don't know. You were doing something important. Um, but when we all talked about this, uh, about approaching Romans differently, like I remember being nervous about it. I was nervous about pitching it to you guys cuz I pitched it to Ryan solo cuz I knew he wouldn't be there. And then I pitched it to everybody else on the back porch and thinking like, "Oh, I don't know." Like, cuz man, that could mean we're in Romans for like a year and that's insane cuz it's only 16 chapters and so we could just do it in four months, but we're going to be tripling how long it takes. >> And here we are. I don't know how you would do this on pace, but it took us 12 hours to do one chapter and we have 15 chapters left. And again, >> we do about four hours at, you know, is basically one month. So, it took us three months of releases to get through Romans chapter 1. So, I won't say at all that I'm regretting the decision because I'm definitely not. But I I didn't really take into account how seriously everyone was going to take the idea and be like, "Yeah, okay. Romans in however long it takes us." And just seeing how each one of y'all is prepared a little bit differently. And Ryan, you were talking uh with me a little bit about that Sunday school this morning, just how everyone's approached their approach very differently for this than we ever have on anything else because I mean, we're all veterans here on on forging table. So, I don't know if if if that was surprising to you guys, but it's been surprising to me, but like very delightful surprise. >> Well, I knew going into this like it was going to have to be we couldn't do chapter by chapter >> and so like when you pitched it, I'm like, "Yeah, that makes total sense. I I would if you didn't pitch it to me, I would have pitched it to you." uh because Romans is like like it said this is Paul's magnumopus and so uh I think going by um and just discussing it with within each hour is like for me has made me really sit down and look at the text a little bit further a little bit more. I've ded into a couple more commentaries than I usually have. And so, like, yeah, I was like, I want to know exactly um kind of where Paul's going, why he's going this way, and and this kind of shows us how we can actually preach the gospel as well. >> Yeah. I have a stack of Romans commentaries, and uh one of the guys that's in Dominion right now, he's taking a group of guys through Romans, and they're doing, you know, one chapter a week or I think they meet every other week, something like that. And I was just like, you know, if he had told me that 6 months ago, I'd have been like, "Oh, yeah, cool. You're going through Romans." And now I'm like, "Oh my gosh, yeah, >> how much are y'all missing?" But what about what about for you guys? >> Yeah, I just think that you know the Bible says that we need to rightly divide the word of truth. Um and this is a when I when I look at like how we input the w word. We can go to we can go to church, we can listen to it, you know, through song and worship. We can read but uh and we can study and this is definitely getting me into the study mode. It's different than reading. It's different than just hearing. Um so there's a different depth to it. Um, and I think even just when we went through chapter 1, just the just even trying to understand that that I think that entire first episode was just on where was Paul coming from, where's the church coming from, like where where we at like and what was the motivation behind all this stuff. I mean, that was fascinating >> just to kind of set the stage, you know, and Mark at our church has a really good job when he starts a new book of giving a background like that. So, it was kind of cool to get go through that myself with Romans to try to understand that and then have this discussion with you It was nice that you had Chandler on the first four episodes like because he was able to go in real deep of like where Paul was coming from, how Romans was set up. So, I appreciated listening to the first four episodes. >> Well, I mean, we're so thankful that Matt Chandler just believes in what we're doing with Undone Life overall and then also the forging table. He's done a couple of voyages with us. But when I told him, you know, when I was like, "Hey, we're about to start the book of Romans." And it's like he knew what I was going to ask him and he's basically like, "Yeah, dude. Let's do it." And I was like, "Hey, you know, maybe just Romans 1 one and you know, help us get started." He's like, "Dude, if I'm coming up there, like, we're doing jiu-jitsu, we're eating smashburgers, and we're doing four hours." And I was like, "Yes, sir, Mr. Chandler. Don't allow me to to get in your way." What about you, Dean? >> Well, I I I like the the idea of going through something and you don't know you don't know when you're going to get picked up, right? And and so we're all we're all focused and studying, but the amount of information that's available on Romans is indicative of how big Romans is, right? There's a ton of it. Um, and then when we did the first four episodes and we I think the first episode was like the first six words. >> Yeah. The first six words, >> right? Like that >> we were on Romans 1:1 for two and a half hours >> that really sunk into me of like how I need to shift my thinking and chewing this up, right? Like if if we could talk for and and it was we we played a game, I think, at the beginning, but it was it was over half an hour on six words. Now, there was a lot of background and stuff, but then I think after the second episode, we chomp down another four or five words, >> right? Like rather than saying, "Hey, we're doing a chapter of this." It's like, "I need to be prepared to go down rabbit holes because of the richness of every single word that Paul writes into this." >> Well, Don, I think I called you on the phone as we were getting ready for the first batch of recordings. It was I don't know who it was. It was one of you. Uh, it was either you or you, Browning, cuz you were on that first batch with Chandler as well. But I was just like I was trying to get a feel for where y'all were at in your preparation cuz I was like, "All right, we're not going to get through four chapters, but you know, I'll prepare like we're going to get through three." And the more I prepared, I'm like, "All right, we're probably going to get through two chapters." Then I was like, >> I don't know how many verses we're going to be able to get through in 4 hours. And so I called one of y'all and I was like, okay, you know, Romans 1:1 in the ESV, Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle set apart for the gospel of God. And in my head, I was like, "Oh, that's that's three different, you know, things we need to stop and talk about. Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God." And one of y'all was like, "No, no, no. There's another break in there." I was like, "How?" You go, "Paul." >> Break. Who's Paul? >> Right. Where who was he? Where? How? Where did he come into play here? A servant of Christ Jesus. It's not the word servant. It's dulos. What does dulos mean? Break into that. Three. Called to be an apostle. What does called mean? What does apostle mean? How what does it mean to be like a sent one? And then set apart for the gospel of God. Okay, what is set apart? What is the gospel? Right? Who are we referring to? And then there's a comma, right? And so you're technically not through the first thought and we were on it for like two and a half hours. And so the thing for me that's been very very helpful but also you know somewhat daunting no pun intended because of the show is the amount of detail that we want to bring because we know there's a lot of guys that listen to this and there's pastors that listen to this and there there are people that have spent more time in the Bible than us and there's people that are picking up the Bible for the first time because of the forging table which is so freaking awesome and cool. But like they're looking at this as an example for what they're trying to do in their community in their foxhole or getting guys together and as opposed to doing what I'm normally wired for, which is let's get through this as quickly as possible so that we can conquer more territory somewhere else. It's like no, we're going to, you know, pull out the launch here and stay a while. >> Let's wade. >> What's that? >> I said let's wade. >> Wade wade. >> Absolutely. And so so and again just another thing as we're reading, you know, the the chapters and verses were added later. This was one letter that people were meant to read through um all at the same time. And you know, if you ever struggle reading Paul, guys, just Peter even referred to the fact that, you know, Paul was sometimes hard to understand. And this is Peter, right? And so, but in in Romans 1, we're seeing a description of uh the suppression of truth uh that is kind of inherent in a lot of humanity. There's some listed uh sins and sin natures that are a part of this and kind of where that goes. And then there's really a hammer at the end of chapter 1 of Romans. And that's Romans 32 or 1:32. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, right? The such things are the things that were just mentioned, they not only do them, but give approval to those who practice them. And so it's like, okay, you're either participating in these things and or you're one of the people that is celebrating something that is a defilement of the will of God. Nature violates every kind of law, the laws of God, the laws of man, and the laws of nature. And it's just like, you know, as we talked about last week, man, we're in that era now. Like, we are in that era where you are celebrated for doing things that make God angry. And again, even as Christians, we we get sold on the idea. It's cuz apparently we haven't read Psalm 97:10. Oh, you who love the Lord hate evil. Okay. Well, we need to know that one, we should have categories for things that we hate, right? Not people that we hate, but but things, sinful desires and actions that we hate. But also, it's like, what does God love? >> Because if you don't know what God loves, how can you know the opposite of that, which is what God hates? And so, that is the the foundation that really like catapults us into chapter 2. So, anyone have anything else on the wrap-up of chapter 1 as we bounce through? >> Well, so chapter one, you know, I I I kind of feel like somebody receives this letter. I don't know who gets these letters, right? It's like letter from Paul and like it arrives someplace, right? Like somebody receives it. >> Somebody in Rome got this letter. >> And if they're Jewish and they're starting to read this letter, because the whole first chapter is like on them, right? And I bet they're like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've been this is what I've been telling them the whole time." So it's like, "Hey them. Hey Greeks. Hey everybody, come in here. I got this letter to read." And they're like lambasting them with chapter one, right? Like this is what I've been telling you guys. And you know, and Paul is on my side and this and I hear like other Jewish people in the background and they're like, "Amen to that." You know, >> as they're going through one and then but but it's a letter, right? There Paul didn't break apart this into chapters. Somebody else did after that. So, it's not like chapters where we're transitioning to a different topic. It's you roll out of out of one and it's like, oh man, that was brutal. And then it's like, well, there was no one and two. It just kept going. And so then all of a sudden, you get into two and the finger starts to do this to whoever's reading it, right? And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, >> oh, hey, actually, you guys go ahead and go. Everybody leave. I I should have read further ahead. >> Just kidding. My bad. Well, it's it's like the sermon on the mount is like what it looks like. And in the fact is he's talking about unrighteousness. He's talking about what God considers unrighteous. And and Christ does this and we when we studied Matthew, we learned about this on the sermon on the mount. Christ starts talking about, hey, these are these actions that you find sinful. Um this is what the law says. Like Paul is pointing out what the law shows as righteous and unrighteous. And so, but now he's going to start dealing with the heart. And so we see in chapter two he starts talking about the heart of unrighteousness which leads us to why we need Christ which we'll get into later in chapters. But yeah, I mean this is like hey like when I'm reading this I'm like yeah yeah yeah. Then you start reading chapter 2 and I'm like oh man >> it's a brutal swerve. >> I'm like it's like that therefore therefore like it's a cross in from 32 into two. Therefore you have no excuse. >> We have no excuses. >> Yeah. Well, Ryan, go ahead and read Romans 2 verse one. We'll go and get into it. >> Therefore, you have no excuse, oh man, every one of you who judges for passing judgment on another, you condemn yourself because you, the judge, practice the very same things. So, this is what's so interesting about this and this is another reason why I'm thankful that we collectively as a group chose to go through Romans a lot slower because there are certain things here where as you're reading it, so let's say you're not reading a chapter a day, but you're just reading it straight through. You're going to kind of notice some of the, you know, bends and turns of the narrative here. But the phrase, "Oh man." Oh man. Okay. Right in the middle of verse one of chapter 2. That was a common address between Jews. So if you're a Jew listening, Dan, as you said this, so hey, this guy, hey, Gentiles, get over here. I got a letter from Paul. He's he's not happy with you guys. Get on over here. And then they hear, "Oh, man." And they're like, "Oh man, this something's something's shifting here. And I don't know if I'm going to like it because this was a message for them." And it's immediately addressing the hypocrisy of the Jews for judging the Gentiles. And so what you might be tempted to believe is, oh, this is actually letter meant for the Jews. He was just teasing us with, you know, trying to do a setup for the Gentiles. He's shifting over to the Jews, and that's where he's going to stay now. Right. He kind of buried the lead. But yeah, as we continue on, that doesn't happen at all. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not just for the Jews. But no, I mean I when I looked at this, I'm just like I'm thinking of passing judgment on another and you condemn yourself. And even like when I was before I was a Christian, I would have this kind of we we're built with this sense of morality where rather than like uh putting the scale or the mirror of the law in front of us, we just put the we put the next worst person in that scale. It's like, well, I'm better than that person. Like my wife will give me a hard time. I was like, yeah, well I never got arrested, you know. She's like, oh great bar. you know, and it's just like it's like I get it, but that that's what we do. Um, and that's what and that's kind of what the Jews were doing. The Jews weren't really looking at the law towards themselves. They were just saying um if you if we look back on one of Christ's parables about the two men praying, you have the one tax collector who's praying and then you have a Pharisee or Sadducee praying and they're praying, "Dear Lord, thank you so much for not making me like this man over here." And then you have that man over there who realizes his his uh depravity, you know, against the law and says, "Lord, please forgive me of all this stuff." So, I think this is kind of the picture he's painting in chapter 2. >> Yeah. And and this may or may not apply, but I was thinking of Jordan Peterson's quote from the original 12 rules for life of don't compare yourself to other people um but compare yourself to who you were yesterday. And I would just add on to that like but you have to then continually compare who who you are in light of who Christ wants you to be or expects you to be as well. >> Um which you know I was just sharing with our our Sunday school class today that you know the first of the 95 thesis that uh that Luther posted so many years ago was that all of life should be one of of continual repentance. Um, and so if we're going to compare, um, it should be comparing ourselves to the standard of Christ and looking inward, looking outward. >> I think so. Someone, I forget who said it. I hate when I can't give someone credit, but they were talking about something that John MacArthur had said and they brought up that over time you're under the more you understand the gospel, the more time you spend with the word of God, the more the the sweeter the gospel becomes and the more aware and more disgusted you are with your own depravity. Yeah. Right. So when when you're just first on >> when you're just first on the the Jesus train, the gospel train, it's like everything that happened before this, it's all washed away, baby. It's all, you know, okay, love and it's all great and all those types of things. Then you start getting into some of the dark nights of the soul. And then you see yourself stumble and you you don't know if you're going to be able to get out of the valley of shadow of death. And sometimes you don't know if God's there or not. And you lament and you have all these different things. And it's it's almost like the difference between King Solomon when he's writing the Song of Solomon versus King Solomon when he's writing Ecclesiastes toward the end of his life. And at that point, he's like vanity of vanities. It's all vapor. Nothing matters, right? And it's just it's a different man with a different perspective. And Solomon, you know, you want to talk about the richest of the rich. Like he got laid all the time. Like he had more power than anybody knew was possible. And he gets to the end of his life and vapor. It's all vapor. >> He prays for wisdom. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And he has all this wisdom. And in the end, he like blasphemes God. He goes and worships other gods because why? He cared more about his bed than he cared about actually God. And so it's just like talk about a waste. Like and but that's just the human nature. It's like how much of the human nature do we just waste away thinking about ourselves and not thinking about what God wants? And so that's one thing that made me think when I was reading this and passing judgment like he's talking to non-believers and Jews right here, but like think about as a believer reading this and I read this as a believer and just seeing how I still pass judgment >> on fellow believers and it's just like man that's something I think Joby called it phariseaical you know having that phariseaical mind and it's like I think he even called me out on it one time and I was like man you're right like it was something I had to pray about and it was something I had to deal with and I had to come to a brother in Christ and be like Man, I was fair. >> Well, actually, but I want you to tease that out a little bit. So, did So, did did he bring that up here on the table or when we were hanging out? >> We were hanging out in the back. No, it wasn't Joby. We were downstairs and I think I was talking about he gets us and there was a couple of things >> and he's like, "Man, I just don't want to have a pheriseical mind." He didn't call me out and be like, "You're pheraical." But in Job's fashion, Joby makes you think, you know, as he's talking to you, you know, and so I'm just like, "All right, man." So, like I like pondered on that for like three or four days and then I got convicted because we have a a fellow brother here on the forging table that I was like, man, I was like, this guy doesn't do what I do. This guy doesn't this guy's probably not in the word. >> Notice key word there, probably not in the word. This guy doesn't show up every Sunday. I don't see him at church every Sunday. And I start in my mind judging him myself against him. Why? Why is it to help this brother out? No, it's to make myself feel better and more spiritual than I really than I really am. Rather than looking at my depravity and saying, "Hey, where is something I can work on myself? Where's something I could help him out with?" You know, if he needs that help, he may not even need that help. That's just my mind telling me what I want to hear. And so, we we we as Christians can still get into this attitude of passing judgment on on one another. But, and again, we condemn oursel. I condemned myself in the fact that God condemned me. Well, it didn't really condemn me, but he convicted me in that feeling. And so, I had to I had to repent. >> Well, I mean, you you can go to any elementary school or middle school playground and see kids passing judgment on each other out of their own insecurity. They want to feel better. It has nothing to do with Jews and Gentiles. It has everything to do with some type of deep inset insecurity in us. That if we can >> if we can make fun of the other kid or point something out and we take the light off of us that we're just terrified everyone's going to see our inequities and our insecurities and we can put it on someone else. Man, there's some mean things that even as little kids that that we resort to. And you know, the judgment comes in kind of two forms. I was thinking like there's like righteousness which is this right? They're thinking they're righteous and laying judgment to make themselves feel more righteous. >> And then there's then there is the the type of judgment that comes out of insecurity where like I am just trying to point out your warts because I don't want anybody to look at mine and point mine out. >> But both of those are bad. And the fact is >> our righteousness doesn't come from us. It comes from one person and that's Jesus. >> And the second is it's the plank in one eye and the speck in the other when we're looking at the warts. There's there's an especially uh pnicity version of this, right? Word of the day. Shout out to Bill O'Reilly. Um so when people look at very very famous awful people and then they hear about how later in life or right before death they accepted Christ. It affects Christians and non-Christians in a it affects nominal Christians and non-Christians in a very similar way. So one example is Jeffrey Dmer. Okay, so Jeffrey Dmer is a very very famous serial killer. Uh he acted out on his uh murderous and homosexual fantasies and he weaved a lot of those together. Uh cannibalistic. I mean the stories that um are true and certifiable of the things that Jeffrey Dmer did are some of the most egregious things that you could possibly read or hear about. But then we also hear that apparently before he died, he gave his life to Christ. Um, and I don't know the circumstances of that and you know, uh, but let let's say it's not even true. Just pick somebody who you think is especially egregious, someone from history, right? And in that exact moment, they they accept Christ and nominal Christians and non-Christians alike go, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." So for decades, this predator prayed on people and he he killed them and he ate them and he raped them and he did all these different things. And you're telling me that at the 11th hour, right, which is a referral to scripture that they don't even know, but at the 11th hour, they give their life to Christ and it's all good. They just get to go to heaven. There's no discussion or regard for, you know, the different types of rewards in heaven or the different crowns that we will have that we will lay down at the feet of Jesus anyway. But nominal Christians or I guess puffed up Christians are like, "Wait a minute. I've been following all these rules. I've been doing the things and I haven't been cussing as much and I haven't looked at porn as much and this guy's a murderer and he gets to go to the same place I do." And it's just it's a it's a misunderstanding of the scandal of the gospel because I can see why a non-believer would believe that because they don't understand the gospel anyway. But for a non-believer to to or for a believer rather to think in that way, it's deeply problematic because it shows that they don't really understand the gospel. And again, I I can't give this person credit, but but I will continue saying it. Like the scandal of the gospel is the fact that the people that the that Saul of Tarsus martyed were part of the welcome committee for the Apostle Paul when he got to heaven. That's the scandal of the gospel. >> Yeah, >> you bring that up and like I was thinking about, you know, you know, recently Charlie Kirk was assassinated >> and everything and um I didn't I didn't follow Charlie as much as a lot of my friends did, but towards the end I would see stuff from him and mainly because my thread on whatever social media platform is usually a bunch of pastors. So, it kind of tells me towards the end that he was like making a gospel play in a lot of his >> for the last several couple years for last couple of years was making a gospel play in a lot of his uh his arguments. Um so those start popping up for me and and I was listening to him and and I was thinking and I was thinking about all these people who were saying these things about Charlie Kirk being whatever they want to call him and celebrating his death. But listening to him like the last couple of like years, Charlie would be the first one in heaven to hug them. >> Yeah. >> Because they're there. just because I can tell that just from what I've seen in videos, you know, I was like, "No, that's a guy that that's a that's the thief on the cross being able to be next to Jesus." And and I'm not putting Charlie Kirk in with Jesus at all course, but um but like that's what the thief on the cross is. That's the 11th hour. That's the guys that got the same pay >> that we talked about in Matthew in that parable that got the same pay as the guys that started 8 hours, 10 hours earlier. We we need to celebrate that. You know, I would celebrate if Jeffrey Dmer was a true believer. I would celebrate that. Russell Brand became a believer. And that guy has a sick terrible past. A lot of the object objective objectified women and everything in his movies that he did, he objectified women and sex and drugs and that's how he built his career. But now look at him. He's preaching the gospel, you know, and he's talking the gospel. He's baptizing people. Like we need to celebrate that. Celebrate. We we c some people celebrated uh what's his name? the rapper Kanye West. >> Yeah. >> You know what? Take people for their for the word at face value. Let their fruit justify whether they're a believer or not. Now, with Kanye West, we can see a little bit different of fruit than we'd want to see from somebody else. Who knows if God can't pull him back to where God wants him to be. >> Yeah. I like like the way Joby says it is he's like, we celebrate anyone making a move towards the gospel. >> And so, let's judge the fruit later. Like you know we had that joke with John MacArthur and it's like hey no one's less assured of their salvation than after listening to a sermon by John MacArthur on the assurance of salvation. Yep. That fact check true >> but at the same time it's like somebody somebody raises their hand or somebody comes down to the altar or however they indicate it publicly >> all you do is celebrate right >> now along the sanctification process because ideally this person is now being discipled. Yes pastors listening to this I did use the word disciple. We do need to be discipling these people. And if during disciplehip we're not seeing the fruit of a repentant life, it is we are duty bound as brothers and sisters in Christ to point that out >> and say, you know, John MacArthur said before, the only evidence of true gospel repentance is a different life. Like you you become a different person now, >> transformed. >> Yeah, absolutely transformed. >> He says, not perfect, but you have direction, >> right? And so I would I would ask him if he were still alive, okay, well, what about a child? like someone who's seven years old and they were a good kid and then now they're still a good kid but now they're a follower of Christ. But we don't want to get too far off into the weeds, but that that's the thing is if someone's not showing that they've uh that they're on the sanctification journey and that they're different than the way that they were and that they are transformed, then yeah, you would be duty bound as a brother to say, "Hey, I'm not sure you actually uh believed uh or that that there is a transformation." I think you just came down to the front after the nice concert. >> Well, that's a thing that we have to think about, too. We had a brother share his uh testimony in Sunday school today which was a pretty brutal testimony >> and he just talked about man I was never challenged >> and that's the thing when we come down to like when we're discipling that's challenging so we need to challenge people within their sanctification we need to challenge them if they're going down a wrong path like when it comes to Kanye West who's challenging him you know who's trying to get him back onto that sanctification process and that's where that's where the body of Christ comes together that's where the church comes together and that's what the church is supposed to do. We're to glorify God and we're to disciple these people into sanctification. >> Well, then you you have all these famous people that we've been naming. I I you know, Jeffrey Dalmer is certainly you know, thief on the cross kind of bad, but you the Kanye West like we know what he did. We we we we saw public displays of of Russell Bran's depravity. But if if Dean Boyd as a 48-year-old person walked down to the altar for the first time wearing a shirt of all of his sins just emlazed all over his shirt, people would cry out the exact same way, right? Like like it's it's the public perception of what you've done and who you are that magnifies uh well, not magnifies, but it it puts us in this same place that Paul is telling these Jews not to be. And it's don't put yourself in that judgment seat because you're doing that same junk, >> right? You may not be eating people, but you are doing things that are that are sinful that are rooted in evil. Like your behavior, the only thing that your behavior apart from Jesus's forgiveness gets you is eternal hell. >> Yeah. >> Every single one of us. So, um >> Yeah. I mean, it's like the uh you know, just take a like take a father that's trying to teach his kid to not look at porn and then the kid goes to school and he goes and looks at porn. You know, it's like, you know, you're getting it all backwards there. I mean, I get it. You want to teach him the right thing, but then you're going and doing that very thing that you're trying to teach them not to do. I was thinking um earlier whenever you guys were talking about like the kid on the playground and all that sort of thing that one of the things that's missing um I mean there's several things missing there but >> there's kids that just only see like there what is around like the world is revolving around them and and and then they they just want to make themselves feel better there there's a lack of in essence a love for people and compassion. And I think those two things I just kept coming back to as I read this chapter. And I don't mean to like spoil the whole chapter for myself, for anybody else, but like those two words kept coming back to me. If I can't have compassion for somebody uh and I don't have love for other people, then I'm going to be the guy that gets on Facebook or YouTube shorts and every time I see some guy doing something stupid, I'm going to laugh at it, right? As opposed to being kind of moved towards a compassion for that person. to see somebody that's on the side of the street that's had had a rough time or rough go, rough life, whatever, it's easier for, you know, to look at them and look down on him like, "What mistakes did he make? He must have done something really bad if he got himself into this situation as opposed to having a compassionate heart towards that person. It doesn't mean to stop and immediately get out and figure out what's going on and and solve all the problems for them, but just a a movement from an internal standpoint of uh me better than you to man, I I wish the best for this person." You know what I mean? That make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah, I I read verse one and and this is going to age me a little bit. Eric Eric is as old as I am. A month older, actually. So, do do you guys remember the commercial when we were little kids? >> Why you pointing at me? >> Because I because you guys are young and I want to see you're my audience here. Is when the dad walks in and he's got that little that little cigar box full of weed and he confronts his kid >> and he's like, "Where did this commercial?" >> Yes, this was a commercial. This was a commercial. walks into a kid's bedroom and the kid's, you know, sitting on his bed. Dad brings in this like little crayon box and opens it up and it's full of weed and he's like, "Where did you get this?" and is like confronting his kid. And the response, you had to have heard this. The response is >> the kid's like, >> "Pencil shading." >> Mustering up courage to lash out at his dad and he goes, "You okay? I learned it by watching you. You've you've you've heard of that?" No. Oh my gosh. Well, there are people that that are listening to this that have heard it and they're like, "Yeah, I totally remember that." But but that's what that's what's happening here. And as I read that, I I I thought of that commercial. It's like, you know, they're they're What is the dynamic of the Jewish community and the Greek community in Rome that's building this church where the Greeks know that the Jews have had this written law. The Greeks have not. It's been written on their heart as Paul will say later, but like they they haven't had this guideline. So they're they're looking to the Jewish people. Are they looking to them, you know, for a little bit like, hey, you guys are a little further down the road in in all of this belief stuff like, uh, it only magnified when the Jewish people would would challenge them and point their finger down at them. It's that from you, yo, I learned this by watching you. I wonder if there's a future uh a future play here as well because Emperor Claudius kicked most of the Jews out of Rome and so the Roman church is mainly Gentiles. Okay. And so the you know we can surmise that when this letter was read out loud the majority of the audience present was likely gentile. And so maybe they were excited by the first part as we know it to be today chapter 1. And then, you know, or maybe they were not excited because they're like, "Oh, shoot. This whole thing's about me." And the Jewish people are like, "Yeah, yeah, we're good to go." And then, you know, we get the flip as we've been talking about this entire time. And so, I think the dynamic of the church in Rome at the time because we can assume that Paul knew that that, you know, Claudius had kicked most of the Jews out of Rome. I assume that got to him at that point. But I wonder if that's a part of this as well to be like, "Hey, this is applicable now and into the future." So as more Jews come back to Rome or as you know the you know the population breakdown of Rome changes that's not going to matter too much. Um go ahead. >> I feel like it has to come down to them judging in the fact that if we think about it like let's think of some pastors out here judging sexual immorality and certain sexual things that are going down but in their private lives are viewing pornography or or doing something like that. >> Right. That's why I normally say when people are like why don't more pastors talk about porn? And I'm like because they're using it. >> Well, why don't they the It's easy to talk about sexual immorality that's out in front of everybody. So whether what the Bible says is correct sexual ethic, but then it's hard to talk. Some of them have a hard pro a hard time talking about that sexual ethic because in their backlog, in their back life, they're viewing pornography. But then you have the ones who are even more bold who are going to go out there and go against and talk about what God calls against sexual ethic, but in the background viewing pornography. And I think that's what it's coming down to. It's like it's like when Jesus was going after the Pharisees and the Sadducees, it's like, hey, you may not be doing the actions. You may be showing all the right actions, but in your heart, you are still doing these things. You're you're still guilty. And I think that's what he's trying to get across cuz in chapter in in the first chapter that we read, he's showing you why the Gentiles are guilty or why culture is guilty. Now he's showing you those who know the law and who believe that they are righteous because they follow the law are just as guilty because in their hearts they're not following the law. They can't. It's impossible. >> Yeah. And I was you I was thinking like you know at the time the Jews looked at Gentiles as dogs. >> You know think about the uh the story of the great the good Samaritan. >> Yep. >> Um I mean they looked down on them and so they weren't worth anything to them. And so this was a big kind of like like you said, a big flip whenever you hit Romans 2 and all of a sudden it's like, oh crap, you know, maybe we're not so good after all. Well, that's they they made they thought of Gentiles as dogs because like look at the past, you know, when we look at slavery or we look at the Nazis like they have to create these people as not you have to dehumanize them. You have to dehumanize them. And if you can dehumanize somebody, >> it's easier to treat them not like a human. >> It's not a baby, it's a fetus. It's not a fetus. Yeah. It's like it's an easier way to to not look at the imo day of someone. >> Yeah. >> I I feel like convicted to to just say the Romans starts out it it's a beatdown. If this is the first time you've gone through Romans, >> Romans is about the gospel. Romans is about grace. Okay? It gets better. So I, you know, it's like, it's like if you're thinking that this is weeks and weeks and weeks of getting beat down and told, you know, that you that we're all in worthy and all of these things and and these accusations, well, well, not accusations, truths about our nature. Like we're Paul is laying the foundation for why we need the gospel, why the Greeks need the gospel, why the Jews, why the Jews need the gospel, why the gospel is for everyone. No one, everyone's on equal footing in the eyes of God. And the gospel is the only thing that saves us from all this stuff. But he's he is he is laying out all the garbage to let us, you know, thank the garbage truck when it comes by and takes it out of our out of our yard. >> Yeah. But earlier what you said about like the further we get into this walk with the Lord, the more we see our depravity and how deep it goes. that whole idea of like continually being renewed every single day, that the sanctification process, the daily repentance, like it you're exactly right. It does feel like a beatdown to go through this as slow as we're going through it, which is fine. It's no big deal because the reality is is I need to be reminded of my limitations and my depravity on a daily basis really because it I really feel like God I don't know, this may not be true, but it just feels like I've got short-term memory loss. like I I was pre-programmed with short-term memory loss or maybe that's just the uh the effect of sin because I it's so easy for me to just slip back into patterns that I did before if if I'm not staying in in the word I was sharing today that you know when I used to work for Kanek that there was such a demand on the counselors to be I just best way to put it just filled up because you're constantly pouring yourself out pouring yourself felt for these the kids that are coming. Um that if there was a day or days where I didn't get into the word, I wasn't being filled up. I just felt exhausted at the end of the day. Um and so there just a needs to be a continual practice of obviously intaking the word, ingesting the word, let it to let it work into you, meditate on it, and then obviously apply it. Not not just for the simple fact of being sanctified, but but to have stuff to pour out um on other people. Does that make sense? Well, also you have to be ready for and you'll have a last word before we wrap up, Brian, because I know you had something, but um I was thinking like the temptation um in the wilderness. What was Satan using against Jesus? Yes, he was using you know the potential for power like look at the look at the riches I could give you like hey you know look I can you know set you up with all the these kingdoms but also he was quoting scripture like you know not fully right and and out of context to to Jesus and if >> Jesus didn't have scripture in there because again he was God but he was fully man as well. So he hungered, he thirsted, he got tired, all the things. But if we don't have scripture in our hearts, not only are we not going to be able to identify when a wolf in sheep's clothing is leading the flock astray. But also, we're going to hear somebody nefariously using incomplete scripture and not be able to catch it. And then that's going to go into here into our mental rolodex. And now that's all a sudden part of our way of communicating and how we go through the world as well. >> Yeah, I I agree. Let me say one thing. The elephant let you go. It's just the idea of keeping your axe sharp. Like you can go cut down trees. Maybe that first day you cut down five trees and the next day you cut down three, the next day one of the same axe. The the common denominator is is not it's not you. It's the fact you're not keeping that axe sharp. So if you're not sharpening your axe daily, you may be still doing work, but you're doing it poorly. >> Yeah. I just want to go off what Degan was saying in the fact that like yeah, we're probably going to be in chapter 2 for a while and you know it may be a couple of hours, you know, or a couple of days that we're going to get a beatdown on what righteousness is, what God finds righteous, how we are, why we need Christ. But that's the biggest thing that that changed me and who I was because I grew up as a Christian in a Christian household. I don't even know if I really was a Christian. If you would have asked me, you know, when I was first married, had my first kid, if I was going to die, I was going to go to heaven, then I would tell you yes. But if you would asked me a couple of years ago, I probably would have told you no. And somebody asked me the hardest question that really got me digging. They're like, "What is the gospel?" H >> And I said, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins." He's like, "Why?" And I was just like, I couldn't think. I was just like, "Well," he's like, "You're a good person, aren't you? You just told me about all the good things that you've done. Why did he die on the cross for you? I did not understand my depravity. And that's what Paul is wanting people to understand, Jew and Gentile, that they have a set of depravity. We have original sin. This is what original sin has done to us. This is why we need Christ. And so when we get into chapter 3 and later on, you're going to see why we need grace. And you're going to see why we want grace. >> We want grace. We don't want justice. We want grace. And so that's where I had to understand that I would never have gotten to where I'm at if I didn't really look at what Romans 1 and 2 really showed me. And that is my depravity and why I need Christ. >> Yeah. Amen. Well guys, uh that's our discussion for Romans 2. So come back here next week where we are going to get into Romans 2:2 and then beyond from there. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Undaunted life. Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. So, a few things that will help you with that. Number one, the Crossway forging Table Starter Set. We love the Crossway Publishing House. There's a five book set for any of you guys that are wanting to start your own forging table. So, there's a Bible in there. There's, you know, exposition, there's commentary, there's a Vodie Bacham book, there's all kinds of great stuff there. And then also the Logos Bible Software, which I've seen up on this screen, I've seen it up on my screen. It's the best and most powerful Bible software on planet Earth. But if you're going to use it, use it at a discount. Uh, you can check out the link in the show notes. And also just remember guys, we are a donation based ministry. So if you're wondering how things like the forging table can get out to people all around the globe, it's because we have guys like you that are partnering with us. So we would suggest that you hop on board, be a donor, help us out. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undantton.life. That's info@undantton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook. and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undauntton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.