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This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56
Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back
1:00
darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the Forging Table,
1:04
you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's Word.
1:07
And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Adam. That's
1:10
Russ. That's Jake. Before we get in, because we're going to get right in the scripture here in a
1:13
second. If you all listened last week, we dedicated not only did we put hands in like the 96 bulls,
1:19
but we also pinky promised like no one's ever actually done in history before. Before we didn't
1:23
have it. You were there. It happened. Everyone thought that we were going to go with you to
1:29
Monday Night Raw in Oklahoma City. But in between in the interim, we've done a little googling,
1:35
and apparently you have to sell one of your children to go to a raw Monday Night Raw,
1:42
not even a paper view. And so what were the tickets like lower bowl tickets? Lower bowl tickets
1:47
were over $400 per ticket. On boy floor seats were over $1,500 a ticket. It was this this just a
1:56
regular night. Monday Night Raw Monday night, even though you're seeing $100. How for just for
2:04
comparison sake, just for comparison sake, I have a half season ticket to the Thunder. Okay.
2:10
To send the four of us to Monday Night Raw, I would literally only need about another 500 bucks
2:17
to pay for my half season. That's insane. Is it because they're so limited? I guess,
2:22
is that the only one per year? Is it one per year that they're here? Probably. They only come
2:26
every couple of years. They come a couple of times a year. They're not, they're here multiple
2:29
times a year. Yeah, they come a couple, not maybe for a Monday Night Raw or a SmackDown,
2:34
but they may come for like a nod. I would take a house show. I would take
2:38
like a house show. Yes. Like a house show. And apparently the house shows are a little bit more
2:44
fun. A house show. You know what special restaurants are. Delicious and vicious. Is this hate way?
2:50
Bicious and delicious. Is this thing going to be? Is it going to be televised? Money Night Raw
2:54
would be. Yes. Okay. Well, let's let's shift. Let's save the $1,200 freaking dollars. I don't know
3:00
that it'll be that much cheaper though, Adam. Just telling you. Well, what I'm going to propose
3:04
will be a whole lot of the paper view. No, no, no, no, no, no. Those will be beyond expensive.
3:10
So this is what I was going to, this is what I'm going to propose. It's November 24th,
3:14
November 24th, I belong in a deer stand. I'm with you. I think we all belong in a deer stand.
3:20
So why don't we watch Monday Night SmackDown Raw or whatever. Here you are, a separate thing.
3:27
I can't believe that. Why don't we watch it? But we do it at the deer, we do it at the deer lease.
3:34
And instead we go, we kill a deer. We go to deer and at the deer lease, we watch Monday Night
3:41
SmackDown Raw with a campfire. He's not hunted before. And even what we could do is we could
3:46
pull out the tenderloin and put it on a stick and then eat it off of the campfire. How great does
3:52
that sound, Jake? Is that a better idea? Yeah, sounds have a lot less expensive.
3:57
Okay, so we are very, we're coming off of this, but before we move on, I'm so cracked up by this,
4:07
and I don't know if it's going to be funny at all. So vicious and delicious.
4:11
But before we get there, for this Monday Night Raw event, where hopefully, yeah,
4:19
no shut up, stop your mouth. But in November, where we're going to hopefully kill a deer and then
4:24
eat it that evening as we watch this, I feel like the three of us need nicknames. So we've already
4:30
got vicious and delicious. And so I'm just going to throw some out. And you guys just claim one.
4:35
Suspicious, malicious, auspicious, fictitious, ambitious, capricious, ferocious, pernicious,
4:46
repetitious. I I take, I would like repetition repetitious. Is that a word?
4:53
No, I could be that repetitious, Russ repetition. So we got this just delicious repetitious.
4:58
I'll take ferocious. No, that doesn't have the same like, I'll take auspicious.
5:04
This is delicious, repetitious, auspicious, saucy. You can be malicious.
5:12
You'll be delicious. Sure. I'll take it. So I got to remember all these. So there's
5:19
what the first two, vicious and delicious, repetitious, my middle name is miles. So
5:25
malicious miles. What was mine, auspicious, auspicious, malicious, malicious. You know what,
5:31
I'm not superstitious. I'm just a little bit. All right. Well, hey, we're going to get into
5:39
the the text, but I'm so glad that we literally just saved collectively about $5,000 after fees
5:44
and everything. And I like Adam's idea a little bit better. So we're going to get in and we wrapped up
5:49
Paul's greeting in Romans here, verse one, seven yesterday, or not yesterday, last week. But so
5:56
we're going to go ahead and get into eight, nine, and 10, start our discussion today there. So Russ,
6:01
if you would, read Romans one, eight, nine, and 10. It looks like you're reading ESV.
6:05
All right. Sure. I'm from the journal deal. So let's go first. I thank my God through Jesus
6:11
Christ for all of you, because of your faith is proclaimed in all the world. For God is my
6:16
witness whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his son that without ceasing, I mentioned you
6:20
always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will, I may now at last succeed in coming to you.
6:27
Yeah, just those verses there. And so we go from a personal greeting to he still speaking very
6:34
personally. First, I think my God. Okay. So it's not just God, it's not just God somewhere in the
6:40
universe. It's not just a God that has no impact on society or me who just kind of set things in
6:46
motion. Like, no, this is, this is my God. And I mean, we really get with the very first word is
6:52
first, but there's not a second, by the way, which is funny, like he's not first and then second. So
6:57
it's first meaning priority, right? So that there's a priority here as we start this,
7:01
we're going to really get a sense of how eager he is to get to Rome. And again, he's writing this
7:05
about three years before he actually makes it to the cobblestones of Rome. But yeah, I mean,
7:10
for God as my witness, he's making an oath that he is going to to always keep this group in his
7:16
prayers. And he has such a fervent heart for the people of the city that he's never been to. So
7:22
let's get into eight nine and 10. You know, I wrote, I wrote down, how often do I thank God for other
7:27
believers? I don't know if I ever really thank God for other believers. Maybe I have. But I can't
7:34
really think of a particular time I was like, you know what, I am really encouraged. Thank you.
7:38
Thank you for putting that person in my life. I feel like I should do that more often.
7:41
Yeah, I mean, I have definitely have. I mean, and Russ knows this, but like after dad died and
7:47
this guy showed, you know, group of guys show up for me that I think they knew me, but they didn't
7:52
know me incredibly well yet. And I remember in that moment, like just when they all showed up,
7:58
just me just going, thank God they're all here because I don't know if I would make it through
8:04
without them. So yeah, they definitely didn't know that you were a wrestling with that.
8:09
It might have the same. All of those guys may have lost respect for me. Just no, no, no, no, no.
8:16
No, I mean, I I agree with you, man, the idea that we probably spin. So this is something that's
8:23
kind of been in our family's prayer life as an emphasis over the last maybe last year or so is
8:30
to include, you know, whenever you were young and they used to pray in church and you would hear
8:35
people pray for missionaries and they would pray for just different people in different parts of
8:40
the world believers and talk about the family of believers. Well, in your home prayers, you very
8:46
rarely are like praying before dinner and talking about Lord be with the people that have a different
8:52
circumstance than than what we do in our worship of you. And so, I mean, that kind of goes to it,
8:57
that idea of just putting your mind out there of this, this real connection with other believers
9:02
and other towns and other places, other churches that are doing the same thing that you're doing
9:06
and to try to connect with people like how many times do you meet somebody and you ask them what
9:11
they do and you find out all this stuff. And it's kind of like a afterthought that you say a bunch of
9:16
Christian lingo words that you kind of find out like Christian Christian. Okay, Christian,
9:21
but then you really don't like that's not a core value of how you end up knowing that person
9:26
or even what you think about them. Now, a lot of times those values lead to other things that are
9:30
core between y'all's friendship, but it is kind of a call like this was the most important thing
9:35
to Paul when every address people was showing them and telling them, may not love you brother
9:39
and sister in Christ. We are one of the same cloth. We no matter where our background is from,
9:45
we all have come to the point that it's only through Christ that we get to God.
9:50
When we we don't have that type of an experience if we're constantly looking inward or navel gazing
9:56
or any of those types of things, because I mean, we see here with the text nine into 10 that without
10:01
ceasing, I mentioned you always in my prayers. Okay, so that's a challenge kind of like like what
10:06
Adam was saying is like, okay, how often are we just praying for our comfort for our blessings
10:11
for God's will for our life, which are all things that we should pray for. But how often do we have
10:17
those other believers? Because I'll say for me, Adam, you know, for me, typically when I'm praying
10:22
for other believers, it's those that have been persecuted, right? And I'm talking about real
10:26
persecution, like what the, you know, the Phulani militants in Nigeria, you know, the Isis connected
10:32
people that are killing people in DR Congo, you know, people like that, Boko Haram, like I'm praying
10:37
for the people that are literally running for their lives on an almost daily basis because they're
10:42
proclaiming the name of Christ. But it's like, I don't know, I just feel like I've missed the thread
10:48
on just praying for because like, I'll be thankful. Like as I was setting up the studio for today,
10:55
I'm like, man, Adam, Russ and Winkler are going to be here, like on their own accord,
10:58
they're all busy, they got stuff to do and they're going to be here. Man, I'm just so thankful for
11:00
those guys. But it's like during normal prayer time. Yeah, I just don't know that I have a posture
11:05
for that normally. Do you guys pray for your kids before bed? I pray with them, yeah.
11:10
Do you ever feel like I've felt convicted about that a little bit that I've, I do it every night
11:15
with each kid and I feel like it's gotten repetitious, at least to be to me. And I don't, I don't know
11:20
if you guys have ever felt that or yeah, James, James will almost verbatim do the same prayer every
11:24
night. And the like last night, I was like, Hey, buddy, you know, because you praise, thank you for
11:28
mom and dad and Roman and Otis, even though Rome's dead. And thank you for my brother and, you know,
11:33
thank you for my school. Amen. Yeah, I've felt convicted about that lately and that, okay, oh,
11:38
it's great. Yeah, you go pray with your girls every night. And I'm sure there's, there's meaningful
11:41
ness to that. But a lot of it is repetitive. I'm saying, if it's not the exact same words,
11:46
it's the exact same theme over and over and over again. I'm like, man, I just, I feel like I'm not
11:51
doing, you know, doing this properly. The one thing I would say, and I'd love to get you all to see
11:55
back on that as well, is when they look back on their childhood, they're probably not going to
12:00
remember that one prayer that dad had that was especially astute and theologically rich or whatever.
12:07
But it's going to be the fact that you prayed with them every single night. And so it's the same
12:11
thing when people are like, if you just do Bible reading and devotionals every day,
12:15
does everyone, does anyone remember, oh, yeah, I was in this devotional on September the 23rd,
12:21
and gosh, that changed everything for me. No, it's just constant movement in that same direction.
12:25
And so that's such an intimate thing that the girls know, like dad's going to come and pray with
12:30
us that that's where I would probably land. I mean, I prayed with the girls all growing up.
12:34
And I mean, that's probably, I mean, part of the reason I think that maybe I have not been,
12:38
I mean, they're older now. So I mean, we don't really do, you know, kind of have allowed them to
12:43
have their own prayer life with Christ. So they feel compelled to pray before bed than pray before
12:49
bed. We praise a family over meals and things like that. But I know whenever I started feeling like I
12:54
was getting a little programmatic in the prayers or they were, we started saying the our father
12:58
together. And, you know, yes, it is programmatic, but it's also the only prayer that, I mean,
13:04
it's the prayer that has been endorsed by Jesus himself. It's like the only prayer you ever need.
13:09
And so if you're going, yeah, I'm going to get a little repetition here. It's like, well,
13:14
then might as well be repetitive on the thing that Jesus taught you to pray.
13:17
I think I was looking for the book name. I think it's called Family Worship.
13:23
And it's a it's a booklet, really, but in that he describes that really what we're trying to do
13:30
is is worship. And so worship has three things included. One of them is really awkward. We've
13:35
been trying it out. I haven't been very dedicated to it the last couple of months, but coming to
13:42
the same route is my kids are getting a little bit older. I've got a 14 year old, 12 year old,
13:46
and a nine year old, and the going around from room to room and praying and praying for other
13:52
people, things like that, really repetitive and really repetitive for me. So it's hard to go into
13:56
three different rooms and have a sincere prayer towards those things. My kids have always we've
14:01
always done the Lord's Prayer. They knew that from probably probably before they knew any song,
14:07
they knew how to say the Lord's Prayer. But now we do this family worship and what we're trying to
14:12
move into is inviting them more into a real time. So us coming together in the living room,
14:21
reading, just reading a scripture, doing a worship song, which that's the weird part,
14:27
is actually trying to sing a worship song. And it doesn't have to be anything big. We had
14:31
some bedtime songs that we used to sing to them. Jesus loves me, whatever. We kind of started back
14:36
with those because we knew they knew them. And even for your 14 year old, she's kind of rolling
14:39
her eyes. But then the other day, she told me she was like, Dad, why did we stop doing the,
14:44
there it is, the little song thing or whatever, reading those scriptures and then prayer time.
14:48
In our prayer time, I will say it is really bumped away from being monotonous because it is a group
14:55
prayer and we've opened it up to prayer requests. But with the fine caveat that these are real
15:01
requests, we're not going to be just talking about something like if you've got something, but we're
15:07
trying to hold them to a bar of if it's not something that you're going to dedicate your thoughts
15:12
over the next 30 seconds during your prayer to, then you just tell us about it some other time.
15:17
These are things that you really want the family to hone in on. So that has been really good for us.
15:22
I haven't been as dedicated to it. It's a pamphlet book that I have in my workout bag. I read it
15:28
whenever I go in the sauna and it's got some things in there to implement that I always struggle with.
15:34
But this past year, we started implementing that and it really wasn't good. Well, I think that's
15:39
really encouraging. I appreciate you sharing that specifically because it's just a different
15:44
modality because every family is a little different. So specifically, you know, Joby is a very
15:50
man's man pastor and he pastors directly to men a lot and men myself included until fairly recently
15:56
have struggled to pray with their wives. And it's not like, and again, I had to catch myself
16:00
because I get on the guys for using the struggle language. It's like, oh, have you really struggled
16:03
with it? Because if you had struggled, you would have had some success by now, right? But they just
16:08
don't because it's weird. It's easier just to avoid the weird thing as opposed to just doing the weird
16:12
thing. But he's like, guys will be like, man, I just don't know, I just don't know how to pray
16:16
for my wife. And he goes, ask your wife what they can be praying for for her. And whatever they say,
16:24
when she's done talking, you grab her by the hands and you just repeat exactly what she just said
16:30
almost verbatim and then say, Amen, right? Sorry with, you know, dear, dear God, dear Lord,
16:36
say what she said and then say, Amen, right? You could do a similar thing with your kids. I mean,
16:41
right now, my boys are five and three. And so it's still, you know, we're having to figure out bedtime
16:45
because, you know, we're kind of separating their bedtimes because when they're together,
16:48
they're like, they start going crazy. You can't like even read a kid's book, much less kind of
16:52
get into any deep spiritual things. But it's like, you know, James, he's five, it's like, hey, hey,
16:56
buddy, is there anything I can be praying for you? Is there anything that and I'm not trying to put
17:00
things there? Is there anything you worried about? Or is there any friends at school or anyone that
17:04
you want to specifically pray for just to kind of change the modality that he's in of this, you know,
17:09
he just spits out his prayer because, you know, when he prays in Jesus name and whenever he
17:14
prays and thanks for Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, like, man, it's like, yes, like this,
17:18
this is good stuff. But it's kind of expanding his ideas around what all can be prayed for,
17:24
what all is appropriate, the different kinds of prayer, like imprecatory prayers, like supplemental
17:28
prayers, like healing prayers, any of those types of things. And so it's given some language to that.
17:33
I think that one, one good thing, there's a lot of guys and guys, if you're listening to this,
17:37
I think we've all been at that state that most of the time when a guy decides, hey, I should be
17:43
praying with my wife or I'm in that moment. It's probably, let's say 50 50, that it may be a time
17:50
when you and your wife are at odds. It may be something that you've you've done really messed up.
17:55
It almost feels disingenuous to be in the middle of a fight or know that you have some wrong doing,
18:01
but realize I got here partly because I wasn't praying with my wife and then to grab her.
18:07
And I would just say fight against that, but kids are a great resource to
18:13
circumnavigate that a little bit and to be able to say, hey, hey, family, come together,
18:18
kids, we're going to pray together and invite your wife into that. And it's you taking that role,
18:24
but maybe not forcing that role on her one on one. But by you taking that role with your family,
18:32
she's submitting into that. And it's opening up the opportunity for you to kind of get back
18:37
into that role in her life as well, especially because I do think a lot of times this comes up
18:42
and we have a passion for it when we have messed up big or when we are not in a right spot with
18:48
our wives. And then it's really weird to be like, we're in a big fight. I want to start praying
18:53
over you. You know, it almost seems like you've got stuff wrong. I need to get the devil out of
18:59
you. What do you mean messed up? What is that? Yeah, I don't know what that is. I may be talking
19:04
from experience, but I don't know. Not have you messed up? Have you messed up, messed up before?
19:10
Is that Greek? I mean, I miss dip. Yeah. That's Greek for every single day. That's basically
19:17
what that is. But now that that's all very encouraging. Go ahead. Yeah, I was actually going to, I mean,
19:22
we kind of touched on the point of connecting with other believers. I think it's interesting.
19:27
The word thank here, I think the Greek word for thank is Eucharisto, which is also, you know,
19:36
the root of Eucharist. So communion, you know, obviously coming from a Catholic background,
19:44
I have a certain reverence for communion that maybe not everybody does. I've vocally told my
19:54
wife I don't like how communion gets treated in the Protestant churches, because I think it's
19:58
just too casual that we hand out stuff and, you know, just it's not about who's taking it. It's about
20:05
our mind and our hearts when they're doing it. And I so I think it's just too casual. But at the
20:13
same time, I mean, as you're trying to figure out like, Hey, how am I going to keep other believers
20:19
in mind? When am I praying for other believers? Literally Paul in a way is teaching you. I mean,
20:26
it's in that moment. I thank you. I, you know, he's saying in that moment that when we take communion,
20:36
he's not saying it, but I guess you should say knowing that what the Eucharist is actually rooted
20:40
in is it isn't gratitude. And so you're there with hundreds of other believers in that single moment,
20:48
taking a taking communion. And if you can't just remind yourself in that moment, like, look,
20:55
thank God for everybody in that room. These are all people who should be who are per taking in this
21:01
same, this the same communion you are the same salvation that you have. You know, so I think in a,
21:08
it's the brilliance of communion in a way, because it's it's not just something that you can do it on
21:13
your own and remember the sacrifice that Christ has made for you. But you can also, when you're
21:19
doing it in a group, it's not just, I've, I remember the sacrifice that Christ has made for me,
21:25
but also, I am so thankful that there are other people standing with me in this moment.
21:29
You know, it goes back to verse seven, when he ties grace and peace together, it just kind of
21:33
reminded me some of some of some of that is like, it's the undeserved grace that we don't get that
21:38
we should not have, but we have and we're taking communion to remember that grace, which leads to
21:44
peace, which we don't deserve. Yeah, amen to that. And I'll say this as well. There's something
21:48
interesting I learned about in verse nine, where it talks about, you know, whom I serve with my
21:53
spirit in the gospel of his son. So breaking down gospel, it's even Gellion or even Gellion.
21:59
And the EU part, I think this came from the sprawl Romans in a year, but EU means good. And then the
22:07
second part of it is Anglos or Angellion, which is message. So good message, good news. And then,
22:15
you know, angel is basically messenger, like that's, that's what an angel is. But then I thought this
22:20
was really fascinating, especially if you're into any type of like old war and stuff like that,
22:24
Isaiah 52 seven, how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news.
22:30
Okay, well, yeah, you can just read that and it's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
22:33
No, no, back in that day, you had, you know, your, your village or your, your kingdom or whatever,
22:39
in the battle took place somewhere else typically, right? And then what would happen is they would
22:44
send a runner to give news, right? There was one, any Twitter or email back then, obviously,
22:49
to give the news as to what happened. And if the, the, the watchmen on the wall,
22:57
they would know that bad news was coming if the runner was shuffling back, right?
23:03
Because the runner would not want to come very quickly with, with bad news necessarily,
23:08
like the runner would be walking or shuffling, but that if he was running and running fast,
23:13
that good news was coming. And so when you again, just how all these attach together again,
23:17
Isaiah 52 seven, how beautiful upon the mountain are the feet of him who brings good news. And so,
23:23
I just think about in our context, like when we bring the gospel, when we evangelize to people,
23:28
we have to be like that runner that's coming back to say, look, we have won the battle. You're
23:32
reporting back to people like, look, we've already won. You're trying to welcome people
23:36
into that victory. Um, let's go ahead and keep moving. Let's go versus do verse eight real quick.
23:42
Yeah. Yeah. So the second part of verse eight, I slowed down a little bit because it said,
23:46
because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. And so I, I underlined your faith. And I said,
23:51
well, what, what's so special about your faith? What's different? And why, you know,
23:55
Paul seems to really want to talk to them. What's, what's so special? Well, a little bit of context
24:00
that I picked up and you guys might have some more detail on this, but in 8049 Claudius, the
24:04
emperor at the time, he expelled them from Rome. Yeah. Kick them out, like get, get out, go away
24:10
because of your belief. He didn't want them in the city. So there's basically only Gentiles left.
24:14
That's it. Yeah. Also all the, all the Jews are gone. Only, only thing that's left are Gentiles.
24:19
And so that's why he's talking about your faith, because at the time, I believe this was written in
24:24
maybe 80, 56 is what I saw, possibly. So this is about seven years later. Does that sound right?
24:29
Yeah, it's all 54 or 55. So Claudius is, Claudius is dead. And that, and that has ended. So a lot
24:35
of them are starting to come back. But we don't see that kind of persecution now, right? We're
24:41
drastically different. And so, you know, so very good. Like that.
24:46
Good. To that, I just want to say I was trying to look up the reference. I think it's John 2029.
24:53
But Jesus at one point talks about those who don't see and yet believe, and like that there's
24:59
a special, I think it's one of the blessed, blessed are those who don't see bear with me.
25:04
I'm so close to getting there. You're good.
25:06
No, I can't find the reference. Oh, there, there we go. Blessed, there we go.
25:15
Jesus said to him, you have believed because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have not
25:22
seen yet have believed. So I think Paul had a personal connection with the church in Rome too,
25:27
because remember whenever Paul became a Christian, he was a disconnect from all the other Christians
25:33
at the time. All the other Christians at the time had seen Jesus, understood the resurrection.
25:38
There was a connection there. And then the story started going out. Paul, he was against it.
25:43
He actually participated in killing one of the first disciples that had seen Jesus' resurrection.
25:48
And then he had an encounter with Christ and it brought him to faith. And I think that there
25:54
were some that probably there was a disconnect between Paul and some of the other disciples were
25:59
like, are you a disciple? Are you, you know, what are you in this group? Because you weren't
26:04
a follower of Jesus while he was here. And now you are. And I think there's some respect level
26:10
that he has for the Romans that he's like, they're even a step beyond me. Like their encounter has
26:15
solely come from the Holy Spirit and that they've understood the words of truth and they didn't see
26:20
Jesus. They didn't even, they may not have even met a real disciple of Jesus, but yet they have
26:26
had faith because Lord blessed them with that. When I think that goes to what is an apostle,
26:29
it's someone who, who was either sent out by Jesus or was a witness to the resurrected Christ.
26:34
And so that's the argument against people who in modern day would call themselves apostles,
26:39
because it's like within the first century, those people would have died. That would have been it.
26:42
I was going to say the exact same thing. Because I've gotten those two confused myself like,
26:46
what is the difference between an apostle and a disciple? So on one occasion, Jesus sent out
26:50
70 disciples. There were far more disciples than just the 12th. Not all of those were disciples
26:55
became apostles. We tend to use those words interchangeably as if the 12 disciples and all
27:00
12 apostles must mean the same thing. But a disciple is simply a learner or a student.
27:04
Jesus was the rabbi and enrolled in his school and were many disciples. From out of that group,
27:09
he chose 12 to be elevated to the rank of apostle, the rank of apostle, those who were commissioned
27:15
to speak for the master. Well, that's right. And they will say, well, how was Paul an apostle?
27:20
Because he didn't see Jesus, which is true, but he did on the road to Damascus.
27:24
Well, and going back to verse one, Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus called to be an apostle.
27:29
So Jesus calls a, calls Paul or Saul three times in the book of Acts. He's calling it, right?
27:37
And so he has an encounter with the risen Christ who in that was revealed to him in that moment.
27:43
And so that, you know, some people are like, well, he's the exception. It's like, well,
27:46
actually not, like, you know, he was revealed directly to him, like his presence was revealed
27:51
directly to him and was obviously sent out with a purpose from there.
27:54
I've heard it described as far as an apostle goes. I've heard it described as like,
27:59
think of it as like an ambassador to another country. In a real sense, the ambassador essentially is
28:05
speaking for the administration itself. So there is an elevated
28:11
response. In an official capacity. Yeah. There's an elevated responsibility to being an apostle as
28:16
you spread the gospel because you are considered to quite literally, it's like, well, if they're
28:21
saying it, then essentially it has to be so. And it's like, there's a trust that goes with the words
28:30
that they speak that did not maybe come from just anybody who's a disciple.
28:34
And the, and part of the great, the thing I take courage in is that sometimes the apostles
28:38
don't agree with each other and they even argue with it. Well, was it the, the second missionary
28:42
journey where they split because was it Timothy, Paul and Timothy and Barnabas?
28:49
No, it was like, it was, oh, God, Chad, we just went over that next, but it was like,
28:53
they split because of math, not Matthew. No, it started with the T wasn't tight.
28:58
I don't know. I'm trying to go back to this. Sorry. We got to look it up, but it was,
29:03
it was interesting. And I think it was the second missionary journey. They did the first
29:07
missionary journey. They come back. There's some type of big argument and eventually they split
29:11
and they go different directions over what this argument is. And I don't, we probably should look
29:15
up the details, but still it's reassuring to me because I always, I always, was it Barnabas?
29:20
I always, I always feel like, okay, we're supposed to have this thing structured. We're supposed to
29:23
have all this stuff figured out. And we're still trying to have these same debates and discussions
29:27
today that they were having amongst themselves. They were still men. They were still trying to
29:31
figure it out. Well, and then we even see, I'll find the reference, but oh, it would have been an
29:36
Antioch. So with this has been in Galatians two, whenever Paul opposed Peter to his face for,
29:43
you know, basically being influenced by the Judaizers, the circumcision party. And then we see by the
29:47
time of the Jerusalem council in Acts that Peter got his crap together and kind of had gotten in line.
29:52
That is a weird point to what we've talked about before. In the last episode, we talked a lot about
29:57
Catholicism and the role of Peter on this rock and the Catholic church. What's the take on that?
30:05
I mean, there's times in the Bible that he's definitely, would it be too strong to say he was
30:10
rebuked by Paul for certain things? Oh, for sure. I mean, basically the claim there is he was acting
30:15
in a racist fashion, which is basically like, hey, you have to be Jewish. You can't be any other
30:20
thing as a Gentile. Like, yeah, you can be a Christ follower, but you have to also be Jewish.
30:23
So even if they believe that the pope is in line with Peter, the rock, I mean, Peter accepted
30:31
responsibility that he wasn't always right. I wonder what the take is on that with the pope.
30:36
It's an interesting point. I never thought about that. That's true.
30:39
You got to remember, I mean, if you're going to try and go, there's some issues going back to,
30:46
you know, even when you start looking at the very first Christians and who's the leader of that
30:51
church and after Peter's crucifixion, okay, who's next? It's not like that person had a great deal of
30:59
power in that moment. Ascribing any sort of authority to any sort of papal figure in this,
31:06
you know, second or third centuries, that's going nowhere. I mean, the Romans were killing
31:12
them left and right. So I think it's something that as far as papal authority, it kind of came
31:20
out. I mean, there was an art. I mean, tried by fire by William Bennett. There was always,
31:24
there's this great book, but one of the arguments was one of the things that you could kind of think
31:31
of is like with Constantine, when he legalized Christianity and actually made it official religion
31:36
of the Roman Empire. One of the issues that it suddenly became something that it was never meant
31:42
to be that that essentially with your with the with with the decision to follow Christ came,
31:55
could also come power prestige and wealth, because now it's officially Roman. Then you can start
32:03
seeing how something like papal authority could creep in, because you're dealing with an emperor
32:09
himself, who is not only considered the emperor of Rome, but in a way, kind of the emperor of the
32:16
church. So I don't know. I mean, like I said, even if you traced it back to Peter, there was no,
32:24
there was no such thing as papal authority back. That's not the biggest hole in it, but I just,
32:28
I've never, I've never heard of somebody talk about the. Oh, there's there's plenty of words.
32:32
40 and one what we were talking about earlier. This is Acts 15. So starting in verse 36,
32:37
some time later, Paul said to Barnabas, let us go back and visit believers in all the towns
32:41
where we preach the word of the Lord and see how they are doing. Barnabas wanted to take John,
32:46
also called Mark with them, but Paul did not think it was wise to take him because he had
32:51
deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. They had such a sharp
32:56
disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus, but Paul chose
33:01
Silas and left commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. He went through Syria
33:06
in Silicia, strengthening the churches. I kept saying Titus, it was Silas. Silas. Yeah. And so,
33:11
I remember, because we were talking about, we don't know precisely what Mark had done wrong,
33:16
but it's easy to surmise that Paul was like, Hey, Mark quit. Right. So, and I actually, I think
33:22
this is important. I actually talk about this because I get a lot of people that ask me,
33:26
Kyle, how do I build a foxhole? How do I find foxhole guys? Those three am guys, how do I find
33:31
Matt toters, which is Joby's language? How do I find a Kings table, which is Chandler's language?
33:36
And I say, I lean on the guys around me. And again, not lean on me. When you're not strong,
33:42
I'll be your friend. Hope you carry on like not that type of lean. Like I will lean on guys a
33:46
little bit. I'll dig my elbow into their ribs a little bit. Like they got a wound and I'll just
33:50
kind of shove my thumb in it. And so I can do that in a workout context and a jujitsu context and
33:56
just kind of like, Hey, you know, back and forth kind of ribbing context, because I need to see if
34:00
people are going to have an attack of ego, I need to see if people have a weak mind or a weak body,
34:05
because when the bullets start flying in your life, it is way too late to evaluate whether or not
34:10
somebody's going to actually be there and actually pick up a corner of your mat and told you to the
34:13
feet of Jesus kind of a thing. And so in that process of leaning on guys, I've found guys where
34:19
I was like, I thought you were three am boxhole material, and you just weren't. And it's not the
34:25
same type of guy like when guys come from out of town, like through the Dominion program and
34:29
they hang out with some of my people, they're shocked that everyone's not just a carbon copy of
34:32
me, right? Bearded, tatted up, way too angry, way too much energy, that type of thing. It's a
34:38
panoply of different types of guys with different focuses. And you know, we were just talking about
34:43
yesterday, if he was here, I would mention the same thing. But like, there are people like,
34:46
how do you and Ryan Horne? How's that like a thing? Like, he doesn't really, he's not really into
34:50
fitness. He's not really into fighting. He's like, doesn't do jujitsu. He likes the Cubs. Like,
34:54
it's just like awful, you know, derelict stuff. He drives a dodge. Like, who freaking cares. But
35:00
yeah, but the thing is, is I've told the story before there was a guy that was in town that was
35:07
with me. And he had something go wrong physically. Here we are in the ER. And Ryan does not know this
35:16
person. Okay. And I'm on the phone with this man's family is wife who's out of town, his mom and
35:21
dad. And I'm trying to coordinate things because this guy's about to go into emergency, save your
35:26
life surgery. While I'm in the hallway making phone calls, Ryan Horne is doing battle in the
35:32
spiritual realm. He is reading Psalms next to this guy's bedside and praying aloud. And then when
35:37
Ryan had to go, Adam hops in his truck and we both head off to the emergency surgery center.
35:44
And here we are in the middle of the night, the only two people in the receiving room waiting to
35:49
see if, you know, my buddy is going to make it. Adam didn't know this guy from Adam, right? We had
35:55
had dinner earlier that night. So we had had about an hour's worth of, of impact or of that
36:00
relationship of understanding that relationship. And so it's like, but I had evaluated your metal
36:06
and Horne's metal before that moment. So it was not the least bit shocking to me that y'all would
36:12
inconvenient yourself for the sake of someone else who is essentially a stranger. And so I think
36:17
that's important to this discussion here as well. You know, Paul basically leaned on John Mark and
36:24
found him wanting, and it was just like, I can't risk that, but God used it, right? Because that was,
36:30
was it multiplication by division, right? Because John Mark and Barnabas had their
36:36
approached the ministry and were sent to Cyprus and Paul and Silas, you know, they chose Syria and
36:41
Selicia. And later on, he asked Barnabas to bring him with him. I think he asked Barnabas,
36:45
he asked somebody to go ahead and bring him with him or make some account that there had been
36:50
an reevaluation, which I think that's okay too. If you lean on somebody and they're not there,
36:55
you don't have to write them off forever, but you can also protect yourself and say, hey,
36:59
this thing we're about to go through. I don't think you're the person for it for me, but man,
37:05
go, go seek the Lord and things like that. Whenever you recognize somebody's doing good,
37:09
it's always, it's always good to go ahead and give them the credit, which is what Paul does. You know,
37:15
yeah. And it's probably no different than, you know, Kyle, I'm sure there's certain things that
37:20
you've said or way that you handle yourself that rubs some people the wrong way. Is that
37:25
possible? This guy here, little universe type thing, maybe delicious, delicious? No, wait,
37:31
I'm auspicious. No, you're malicious. I'm auspicious. You're auspicious. I'm
37:37
repetitious. That's what I just got us to do. Yeah, boom. So that was very delicious. So anyway,
37:42
the point is like, even those people that you possibly rub the wrong way, if there is somebody
37:47
out there like that, they might have a different way to approach it and in the way that they approach
37:52
it might reach some people that you can't reach in a different context. And that should be okay.
37:57
Yeah, that's why I tell people all the time because, you know, recently I
38:01
taught Sunday school and I just did a derivative of what I did on the daily blade where I was
38:06
talking about we don't hate nearly enough. Right. I think it's a Psalm 97 10. It's like those who
38:11
love the Lord hate evil, those who love God hate evil. And that's a declarative, right? And,
38:17
you know, several people in Sunday school were like, where's the love in this message? I don't
38:23
understand. So let's go ahead and talk about that because I wasn't there. I was, I was, I was,
38:28
I was traveling and I was just helping. You know, it's fine. Yeah, it's another
38:33
emotional mic. I can't talk on the side of it. No, it doesn't really work that way. But go ahead.
38:37
Okay. Okay. Okay. So, so I wasn't, I wasn't there for this, but my phone started blowing up and I
38:44
started seeing messages and I was like, Kyle just spoke and I'm like, Oh, is this, is this bad?
38:49
So it was bad. So, so, so people were ruffled some feathers. Yes.
38:53
You weren't in there either, were you? No, I got texts. Stacey texted me. Yeah.
38:58
So Kyle was ruffling some feathers. Good. I love it. Feathers need to be ruffled. Yeah.
39:04
Well, and so I elucidated some things, which were like, and I gave some categories, here are things
39:09
that people don't hate enough. We don't hate abortion enough. We don't hate child abuse enough.
39:15
Agree. We don't hate standpoint epistemology enough. We don't hate the isms, communism, socialism,
39:20
feminism, Marxism. We don't hate these things enough. Part of it is because we don't fully
39:24
understand all the things that I just said. But the other thing is we have not reckoned with
39:27
how God considers those actions. And so what I did is I would explain the category. I would
39:33
explain via the word of God, which is our authority, what God says about the issue, not how I feel
39:39
about the issue, because you know, I listened to some, you know, conservative podcaster. But
39:43
what God says about these categories, what God says about man stealers, or what God says about
39:48
murder, what God says about those things. And again, I would always go back to those who love
39:53
God should hate evil. And a lot of people seem to have bought into this colloquial lie that
40:00
Christians are not called to judge nor hate. And it's like you don't get that from a deep read of
40:06
scripture. Now, what what they didn't understand with some of the people in class were we're not
40:11
quite grasping, which I will put I probably could have done a better job in my introduction of kind
40:16
of saying, Hey, I'm leaving the love thing on the side here because I think we all get that.
40:21
But let me talk about the other side of the coin that doesn't get talked about very much. So I
40:25
will I will own that I probably could have set it up a little better. But when it got to the end,
40:29
I was actually interrupted, which is not my favorite thing for people to interrupt me.
40:33
And someone decided about 95% of the way through my presentation to ask a question,
40:38
which was basically, so where's the love? And I'm like, well, before the end of the movie,
40:42
don't turn to the guy next to you and say, what's going to happen? Perhaps watch the end of the
40:46
movie. And then if you're still confused, ask the person who saw the movie before to help you
40:51
understand. But that was the thing is people are like, where's the love in this message? Where's
40:54
the love in this message? And then I did put a little RC sprollism in the in my introduction,
41:01
because you've I said, Hey, you guys have probably heard, you know, love the center, hate the sin.
41:07
RC sproll said back in a sermon, like in the eighties, he's like, does God send sin to hell? Or does
41:13
he send sinners to hell? So if you say something like love the center, hate the sin, that's not a
41:18
category that we get from scripture necessarily. Are we so soft that every message has to have love?
41:24
Yes. Is that is that the thing? Because it's like, okay, does the lion does the lion of Judah have
41:28
to preface the lamb of God every freaking time when we give a message? That's the gospel's been watered
41:35
down. I mean, let's just be honest, it's the gospel has been watered down and it's basically
41:40
been watered down to just love. It's been watered down to love. When is it in to speak the truth and
41:45
love? Yes. That's a part of scripture that we love the love part. Right. But then it's the truth
41:50
part that we get real or comfortable with. Is it because of the audience? Is it because, okay, Kyle,
41:55
if you go speak to a bunch of men in a prison, you're allowed to be 100% lying, you don't have
42:01
to preface anything. But if you speak to Sunday school, Edmond, Oklahoma, faith Bible church,
42:06
and there's a bunch of women in the room, now you have to sugarcoat everything. Why should you
42:10
have to sugarcoat? I don't think it has anything to do with the audience. I don't think it should.
42:15
I think it has everything to do. I think it has everything to do with the fact
42:19
that we are so frickin comfortable now, that we have so much to lose by actually taking stances
42:27
against things that are truly evil that we have decided culturally within our society that this
42:33
is okay. In heaven forbid, I watched, I watched a Baba, sorry, Baba Longbee thing on woke Jesus,
42:40
they brought out another one when it was hilarious because one of them he just says,
42:44
don't judge. And then they go, and then one of the apostles responds with, okay, is there any
42:50
is there any context or anything else you can add to that? Like to kind of give us some instruction
42:54
he goes, no, don't judge. It's an absolute just don't judge. And I'm going, and it's meant to be a
43:03
joke because yeah, the whole idea behind just love, the gospel is love. It's like, no, it's truth.
43:10
It's truth. It's truth. It's truth. You are this depraved center who needs a savior. Right. And
43:14
rest over you. Well, I'm not against that. I'm just saying oversimplification of either side of that
43:23
is exactly what it is oversimplification because even though truth is truth, there are things that
43:29
you share depending on your audience and what you know that they're ready for. And so I'm not saying
43:35
that maybe you don't maybe you don't go into a certain scripture with new believers that you know
43:42
is going to break things up. I mean, I think that's a big part of that, hey, not everybody should be
43:47
a teacher. Not everybody should be a preacher. Not everybody should be a pastor. These are roles
43:52
that need to be people that are dedicating their lives to fellowship in the Holy Spirit, to reading
43:58
the Word and to having a prayerful discernment on on what they're doing. Now God, a lot of times,
44:04
I mean, can call you into a very harsh message. And if he calls you to do that, you should share
44:10
it with whoever he calls you to do that. But at the same time, the heart behind how you're doing
44:15
stuff is also I can say something very stern to my kids. And they can know that the heart behind
44:22
that is out of love and they can accept that. I can also say something very casual to my kids
44:29
and the heart not be in love. And that almost wound them worse. Yeah. And it's just because it's true.
44:34
It doesn't mean it's appropriate to be said in all settings. And so to to go back to what you two
44:39
are both just to connect what both of you were just talking about. In considering my audience,
44:44
I will speak to all male audiences and I will speak to mixed audiences. Typically, the only
44:49
thing I change is the severity of my examples and my affect. So when I'm talking to a a group full
44:56
of men, right, I'm typically not too terribly concerned about how fast I talk and about how
45:02
forcefully I drive points home. Whereas whenever I'm in a mixed crowd and with women there,
45:08
I typically try to slow down just a little bit and I will take a little bit of the sting out of
45:12
some of the things that I say. So so for instance, the the roughest part of that presentation, which
45:17
caused several women to cry while I was doing Sunday school and caused me to choke up because
45:23
it's so hard to talk about. I was talking about we don't hate child abuse enough. I brought up
45:28
the story about the gay couple in Pennsylvania that was allowed to adopt a baby boy and it can't come
45:36
to find out one of the men was a registered sex offender had gone to jail for a pedophilic sex
45:43
crime against a male child, right? But there's a loophole in Pennsylvania law that allowed this
45:49
person to go unvetted and to take possession of a surrogate's baby via adoption. And the surrogate
45:57
had to go through layers and layers and layers of meetings with doctors, meetings with psychologists
46:04
to make sure that this she wasn't going to freak out and steal her baby, her baby from these two
46:09
sodomites, right? And you know, that situation because it had gone viral around that time. So
46:13
I was kind of showing, Hey, you know, this is the the situation that we're in. And then
46:18
I, it wasn't a part of my slideshow, but I felt like I needed to say the next example. And I knew
46:24
it was going to be really rough. But there was a gay couple in the UK that was fostering a 18
46:32
month old baby that they were trying to adopt. And they raped the kid to death murder. They raped
46:39
this baby boy to death. But I didn't say it like that. In Sunday school, I go, they sexually, sexually
46:47
assaulted this baby until it died. Doesn't sound very different, but softening the message. And
46:54
even as I was saying it, I was so angry. And I was starting to kind of tear up. And I wanted,
47:00
I wanted to just throw the podium through the wall, right? At the evil that had been perpetrated
47:06
against this baby, right? But I just kind of took a deep breath, considering my audience,
47:11
understanding that I'm looking into the eyes of several women that are already crying, right?
47:17
Because they're thinking about their children. They're thinking about what if that had happened
47:20
to my baby. And I brought it back to my point, which was, do we hate that enough? Because the,
47:28
the center point of my presentation is we don't hate enough. That is my hypothesis. That's what
47:35
I'm putting forward. We don't hate things nearly enough. Because Christians will be caught saying,
47:40
well, that's really unfortunate. Ah, man, a million babies were slaughtered in the womb
47:46
and sucked out of their mothers via vacuum tube this year, right? Oh gosh, that's really unfortunate.
47:52
All right, go back to playing Sudoku, go back to, you know, do whatever I do with, with my spare time.
47:57
And so that's what I was trying to welcome people into. You should hate these things. And that hate,
48:04
which if that guy had let me finish my presentation, I would have got to, we should hate it so much
48:09
that drives us to action. And that's where we can start getting into the world of opinion.
48:14
Does that drive us into supporting certain political candidates over others? Yes. Does it
48:18
help us go and advocate for law changes if you're a Christian in Pennsylvania to make sure that
48:23
nothing like that can ever happen again? Does it cause us to stand up in a room and say the unpopular
48:29
thing, which we shouldn't have gay adoption and surrogacy and IVF and all these different things.
48:35
It's your hatred doesn't lead to a pathway where you are consumed by it, but your hatred should
48:42
push you towards actions that God would approve of. And so that was kind of the point that I feel
48:48
like was lost on some of the people just because it felt too icky, it felt too mean, it felt too rough,
48:53
it felt too Old Testament. And they just didn't want to reckon with the fact that, no, we live
48:58
in a modern era where darkness has to be pushed back. And we can't do that if we're plugging our
49:02
ears and covering our eyes. And I feel like in that setting, it should have been safe to deliver
49:07
the message in that way, because this is a room full of believers who are going through the Bible
49:12
all day, every day seasoned believers, I would say, seemingly not to try to judge, but that definitely
49:18
is what it feels like. And so the the the when we're getting a message from the lamb side of things,
49:24
they don't sprinkle in the line of Judah as well. I don't hear about it fricking at all. So if you
49:30
don't hear it from that perspective, then when the lion steps in the room and what what Kyle has
49:34
been called to do, why does he have to sprinkle in the lamb at the same time? Like he does to some
49:40
extent, but it is what it is, as long as he's speaking truth, preach on my friend. And so I don't
49:44
like that he gets called out in this manner when when he comes in the room, we know what we're going
49:50
to get. And he's coming at things from perspective and he shouldn't have to freakin sugarcoat it.
49:54
And some of your message was just about Romans one. And we're going to continue on here. But once
49:58
we get to the end of Romans, a lot of the things that you talk about and the problems that we have
50:02
in this world and those problems that those men, what they did to the what they did to the child,
50:07
it talks about it in Romans 2026. And that's what God gave them up to their desires. And when you
50:11
give somebody up to their desires, what happens? They're full of envy and murder and strife and
50:15
deceit and maliciousness. And that's what happens. And if we're not ready to confront that, if we're
50:19
not ready to deal with those things, well, then that's what's going to happen. And so don't bury
50:24
your head in a fricking sand and act like that's not true. And the final verse, Russ, don't lose
50:28
your thought. The final verse of Romans one, Jay Risen, or help help me with this associate
50:32
pastor at our church, though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such
50:37
things, the long list of things that was just elucidated in the chapter, those that practice
50:41
such things deserve to die. They not only do them, but give approval to those who practice them.
50:48
So when you get convinced by culture, because you live downstream of culture, not the authority
50:52
of the word of God, you will say things as a Christian and say, you know, I guess it's okay
50:57
if two game and adopt a kid as opposed to a kid being in the foster system or to be an orphan.
51:01
Oh, it's okay. If we allow abortion for cases of rape or incest or the health of the mother,
51:07
even though that's not a category in modernity anymore, like you start saying things that sound
51:12
like culture and what that scripture does is essentially putting you in the same group as the
51:17
people doing the actions because you were saying this is somewhere between this is okay. I'm okay
51:22
with it. I may not like it, but I'm okay with it or going out to a parade and celebrating the
51:26
behavior. I'm guilty of both of those things that you just claimed in previous time. I've
51:31
processed through those things, but I've definitely been on that side and it's been an eye opening
51:36
experience, especially with your help to get to the point to where that's why I bring these things
51:41
up because this came up in Barzell, which was an old Sunday school that we were a part of.
51:45
And the thing is, is it sounds good. It sounds loving, but is it based on this, based on our
51:52
well-worn Bibles? Is it loving to allow people to operate in that sin? Is it loving to not
51:58
disabuse somebody of the sinful notion of their brain because they're living downstream from all
52:02
the isms? No, it is not. I am not ashamed of the gospel. I'm sure most people, I'm sure most people
52:07
have actually heard Joby Sermon on Elijah recently, but I mean, it's a very much. Yeah, guys,
52:12
go back to the summer series with Elijah. Yes, the Obadiah comparisons as you're talking through
52:18
that. It screams. It's like, yes, it's weak, but good. Weak, but good. If that's a category of
52:23
thing. If it's even a thing, weak, but good. Elijah is strong and good, but Obadiah, I mean,
52:31
is he, you know, yeah, he hid the prophets away, but who is he really obeying? Whereas Ahab is weak
52:36
and bad, but did you? Yeah, keep going. Go to your place. Well, my point was just on the idea of
52:42
being comfortable with saying the tough thing. And back to the deal about a father with kids,
52:48
if somebody told a story about some moment that I had some disciplinary or coaching action with my
52:55
kids because people know me, all of those stories are littered with my love for my kids, even the
53:02
some of the most harsh ones. Yeah. You know, I coach my son's football for years. I've given him
53:09
plenty of ammo for him to tell stories about when dad did this and whenever I did this,
53:15
I was more harsh on him. You know, I mean, the kids in our group laugh about how many times
53:20
if Harrison dropped the ball while being running back, I took the ball from me,
53:25
my punted as hard as I could. And I said, go get it. And there were sometimes he brought it back,
53:30
and I punted again, and I just had. Doyle rules. Over and over and over. But most people that know
53:38
me know that even even the stories that sound the most harsh, and I'm not saying I'm not a perfect
53:44
dad. So when we think about our father, we think about the commands and the things that he gives
53:50
us, I think it's just really good for us to outline that we that we all have the same perspective.
53:58
There may be times that we're talking to people that don't have that fatherly perspective to
54:03
understand that even after we tell them, we we still have a responsibility to maybe explain
54:11
that his heart for us is for our good and it is for things to bring us back to him and to make sure
54:17
that they know that this is from a good God. And and two, I mean, some people just blind
54:23
themselves to say, well, God's always angry. No, God's like a dad who if if someone is at school,
54:29
giving your kids drugs, you're not going to go and kind of pat them along and be like,
54:34
oh, we'll work with you, but we just don't want you to give our kids drugs today. Yeah, no,
54:38
you realize that there's a chance of a life ruined. And that's how God feels about sin.
54:43
That's how he feels about those that draw other people into it. Like what this says,
54:47
those that tell people that it's acceptable, that they are actually drawing them away from
54:52
him. And he has harsh words for that. Even his harsh words, if you know him, you know that he is a
54:59
very, it makes me think of Aslan, you know, very fierce, not safe, not safe at all, but he's good,
55:05
but he's not safe, but he's good. But so there, there's a sales system called Sandler that does
55:10
pretty good sales training. There's something called pendulum theory. And so let's, you know,
55:15
assume if you've been in a sales cycle on one side of the table, the other. So I'm selling,
55:19
you know, widgets to Jake. If I sense that Jake is getting very excited about what I'm doing,
55:25
I need to bring the pendulum back towards the middle and calm down, right? Because I don't want
55:29
him to get so excited that later, he regrets his decision because he got excited, right? I want
55:34
to bring him back to the world of reality. But if I sense that Jake is disconnecting from the sales
55:39
process that he's not interested, I need to bring the energy up to get him excited, right? I'm trying
55:44
to shift the pendulum back towards the middle. But in order to shift it back towards the middle,
55:50
I have to go to the opposite side of where it is now. So line and lamb, the pendulum lives
55:57
in lamb land, right? So whenever I'm speaking, I'm grabbing with all my mind, bringing the pendulum
56:04
back this way, not because and never would I make this my argument because I think the pendulum
56:10
needs to be in the lion's side. It's because I so fervently believe that it needs to be right,
56:15
smack dab in the middle because if we don't see the lamb and the lion in Jesus, we don't understand
56:21
Jesus. If we don't see grace and truth, then we don't understand Jesus. So by your description,
56:28
your heart, I believe this to be true. If the roles were to were reversed and we lived in a world
56:36
that and I think Christianity at different times and different sex has been there,
56:40
when if we lived in a world that it was more on the judgment side, you would be doing a podcast
56:46
over softer things. I can't imagine that. Think about the equipping of the saints for the work of
56:52
the gospel. I would probably be mowing lawns or selling insurance or doing something else,
56:59
right? Somebody else, some other profit would be called who was more wired for the love message
57:05
would be screaming from the rooftops. And hopefully someone like me would say,
57:08
yeah, that's not really exactly my wiring, but I get it and he's right. You know what I mean?
57:12
And so that's what the role of a profit is, which again, I don't mean like profit,
57:16
like I'm telling the future. But when people talk about speaking truth to power, that's what an
57:20
Elijah does, right? You're speaking truth to actual power, right? Not in some sort of social
57:24
justice way, but yes, that that has to be the message. So if you go to a church, maybe super
57:29
trad, like church or something like that, and everything is truth, truth, truth, truth, and the
57:34
grace is lacking, pendulum needs to be shifted. And when you shift the pendulum for somebody,
57:39
you give them permission to add a category to how they view the world. So going back to my
57:45
Sunday school lesson, I knew walking in there, roughly 50 or so people that a good chunk of those
57:52
people, if not the majority of the people in the room did not have a category for hate.
57:56
So I needed to shift the pendulum from love to the hate side, just a little bit, so that it would
58:03
hopefully settle back somewhere towards the middle, where now they have a category for things that
58:08
they feel like I am justified in hating, not so they are fueled by hate, but so that they understand
58:15
we are to hate the things that God hates. I think it's good to let people, your audience,
58:20
hear into that. You know, I mean, so many because of your role and because of where that
58:27
pendulum needs to be, it kind of has you in a corner at different times, and it's good to share
58:32
that heart side of it, the fact that, yeah, this is the need that I see, and this is where I stand
58:40
to try to get the movement that I feel like God has called me to get the movement on.
58:43
Well, there was a very good example recently, so Ryan was having a discussion with his wife,
58:48
Lady Horn, and they were talking about me and my approach to ministry, and you know, his wife,
58:53
she basically gets to see Undaunted Kyle a lot, right? And she hears about Undaunted Kyle, and
58:58
truth be told, Undaunted Kyle is Kyle plus 10%, like a little 10% louder, 10% meaner. It's me,
59:07
but just, you know, not how I normally am, just a little bit more intense. And Ryan basically,
59:13
he talked about some, some email I got from somebody that, you know, didn't like something we said on
59:18
Forging Table or all that. And he's like, some people might think Kyle from Undaunted would just
59:23
send back a scathing email, ripping the dude limb from limb, telling them how stupid he is and all
59:28
that, which wasn't how I responded. And so Ryan informed her, hey, actually, we talked about it.
59:34
This is how Kyle responded. Now he didn't want to respond that way, but he knew that this was
59:39
the more appropriate way because I have to think twice and be a little bit more lamb. I have to
59:43
think twice and be a little bit more grace where my default mechanism does not fall into those
59:48
categories. And so that that's kind of the thing is I want to kind of let people know all of us have
59:52
a default. That's on one side or the other where the pendulum should be. But the pendulum, if it's
59:58
in its perfect spot, writes back down in the middle. So 58 minutes and 40 seconds, Kyle just said,
1:00:04
I need to be a little bit more lamb. So mark that, put that on Instagram, Kyle's going to be a
1:00:10
little bit more lamb. I didn't say I was gonna. That's the role of the Holy Spirit in all of our
1:00:15
lives. That's a sanctification process. If we're not listening, if we're not listening to the
1:00:19
truths of the word and praying and saying, Lord, you gave us a spirit here on earth to have a function
1:00:27
in our everyday lives. If we're not seeing or hearing some type of move to shift, that's our
1:00:34
symbol that we're just not listening because we're never we're we're not Christ. And we are not fully
1:00:40
in tune with the spirit all the time. And the fact that that you listen to say, okay, I'm not gonna
1:00:47
send that the way I would. That's that's what it is. And that's what I mean, Paul is getting into
1:00:51
with all this is I am different. Even even the fact I love the fact that he said, I pray through
1:00:58
Jesus Christ because he no longer even accepts that his relationship with God, like the the piece of
1:01:04
his relationship with God that used to be founded on the idea that he had a righteousness through the
1:01:09
law has just completely he's not praying to God. And I happen to now know Jesus too. So I'm kind of
1:01:15
doubly safe. He has abandoned the idea that any of his righteousness came through the law. And he is
1:01:22
just now saying, I prayed it God through Jesus Christ only. Like that is my only ticket to him,
1:01:27
even though I used to be here and here and you're far off, we are now all on the same side that is,
1:01:33
we're on this side, Jesus. And then that's how that's how we have our relationship with God,
1:01:38
which is why we should be patient and have grace for people that are on their sanctification journey.
1:01:44
That is our spouses. That is our children. We should never catch ourselves saying,
1:01:49
I thought you'd be better by now, because if we were to look at ourselves through God's lens,
1:01:54
I thought you'd be better by now, right? Let's talk about mega appropriate if we're doing like a
1:02:00
really good self evaluation there. And so I think all that's very, very appropriate. So guys,
1:02:05
we're going to have to leave it there. But come back next week where we are going to start with
1:02:09
Romans 1 verse 11. So come back next week, ready to go. We're keeping the snails pace going. So
1:02:15
Romans 1 11, but before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted
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There it is. We did it. And then also guys donation based ministry don't know if you're
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aware of that probably never heard me say that before. But the reason we're able to pull off
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stuff like the forging tables because we have normal everyday dudes given 10 bucks a month,
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50 bucks a month, 120 bucks a month to what we're doing here because they want to see us equipment
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around the globe to push back darkness. We want you to hop on board and be a donor.
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Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
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rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event
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or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's I N F O at undonton.life.
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Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way, just go to www.undonton.life.
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And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our
1:03:34
content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut
1:03:39
album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:03:44
Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:03:51
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:04:21
You