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1:00
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:24
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:27
Welcome back to The Forging Table, the mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push
1:30
back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:33
At The Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:36
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along with that journey
1:38
with us.
1:39
A bunch of familiar faces today.
1:40
We got Winkler, we got Eustace, and we got Adam Smith here, but before we get into our
1:45
slow crawl through the world of Romans, which, guys, if you've watched the first four episodes,
1:49
if you've missed the first four episodes that we did on Romans with Matt Chandler, not only
1:54
do we have a lot of fun, but in four hours, we got through about six and a half verses,
1:59
so at this rate, we will be finishing Romans by 2037, so we just were so glad that you
2:04
guys have dedicated yourselves to staying on pace with us.
2:08
But there's something that needs to be addressed here, because whenever I set up one of these
2:13
Forging Tables, we figure out who the group is, and then I send out a text saying, "Hey,
2:17
we're meeting on this day," and then I send out the lunch order and stuff like that and
2:21
all that, but out of nowhere, right, because nobody was asking questions, nobody was really
2:25
talking in this group text, and the day before my birthday of all days, there's a message
2:30
from Russell Eustace, and it says, "Harrassy on the Forging Table," and so I'm sensitive
2:39
to heresy, right?
2:41
I've gone on record saying Andy Stanley is a hair tick, and then you know what I did
2:45
a few months later, doubled down, did an entire episode on it, very sensitive to heresy and
2:49
claims of heresy in and around me, gosh, got to take those seriously, especially as it
2:54
pertains to this table, this brand new table, this sore next table, that there was heresy
2:59
performed at this table, actually, it was the last table.
3:02
But let me read the rest of this message.
3:05
Karate Kid is no way to know how an action movie.
3:11
The fact that two other guys voted for that to be an action movie is just sad.
3:16
By the way, 1990 total recall would dominate all of those if it was your year earlier.
3:24
Which I thought about.
3:25
Wait a minute.
3:26
All right.
3:27
All right.
3:28
Wait a minute.
3:29
Feed me.
3:30
I want us to have a debate, but I'm just not quite ready.
3:31
Just hang on.
3:32
You're going to band up.
3:33
Oh, my lord.
3:34
Oh, this is not good.
3:35
Oh, boy.
3:36
Wow.
3:37
Holy mister Miyagi, we're here.
3:38
Yeah, awesome.
3:39
You have to do the official.
3:40
Yeah.
3:41
Yeah.
3:42
Now.
3:43
Oh, yeah.
3:44
Now. Oh, yeah.
3:47
Now I feel ready.
3:48
Should there be like a rising sun on that?
3:49
This is setting sun?
3:50
No, this is the official Daniel son headband from Karate Kid.
3:55
Okay.
3:56
As purchased on Amazon.
3:57
Can I go ahead and claim as we're doing this?
4:00
I have never seen the full movie from beginning to end when you've seen it.
4:04
I'm not sure what's more egregious.
4:05
The fact that he considers it not to be an action movie or the fact that you have not
4:09
you've not watched it.
4:10
I've seen bits and pieces.
4:11
I know the wax on wax off, but that's about it.
4:13
The answer is no to my question.
4:16
You've not watched.
4:17
No.
4:18
You made me watch open range, maybe the worst western of all time.
4:20
I'm going to make you watch Karate Kid.
4:23
Can we just.
4:24
I'll watch it.
4:25
Let's talk about open range.
4:26
How could you say it's the worst western of all before that?
4:28
Let's talk about Laura the rings.
4:29
Can we just talk about.
4:30
Okay.
4:31
Now let's talk.
4:32
Let me say my marriage real quick on this.
4:33
I do like Karate Kid.
4:35
My wife loves Karate Kid.
4:36
I hope she's listening.
4:37
She's furious.
4:38
She loves.
4:39
I would not tell her this, but I don't think she would call it an action.
4:43
One of my basis of that argument is that it is my wife's, one of her favorite movies.
4:50
List the amount of movies that are action movies that she even knows.
4:54
It's one by.
4:55
That's a super.
4:56
I would argue.
4:57
One by that.
4:58
To your house.
4:59
One by that standard.
5:00
I would really.
5:01
I would like to hear the argument.
5:02
No explosion.
5:03
For it being an action movie.
5:04
Where's the action?
5:05
No explosion.
5:06
What do you mean?
5:07
Where?
5:08
It's not an explosion movie.
5:09
Well, here's one internet movie database, which is the repository of all things cinematic
5:13
right?
5:14
You go there to see who was in there, who directed it.
5:16
How long the runtime is and whether or not there's boobies.
5:19
You go there, you find all that information, you know, parents, I'm not and it's right
5:23
there.
5:24
Exactly.
5:25
The very first word.
5:26
You're going by somebody else's standard.
5:27
No, it's not coming of age story.
5:28
It's not dramatic 80s.
5:30
It's action.
5:31
That's what it says.
5:32
But look, so we're saying that IMDB is the authority on cinema in this, in this.
5:37
When it comes to categorization.
5:39
Yeah.
5:40
What was it?
5:41
I did categorize, I believe, the ranking of trilogies and which one did they have never
5:46
won?
5:47
They didn't do it.
5:48
Oh, so now.
5:49
That was Chad GBT.
5:50
Now you're listening to him.
5:51
Now you're listening to him.
5:52
Now you're listening.
5:53
Not the internet movie database.
5:54
What I'm going to do.
5:55
Boom roasted.
5:56
No, I don't think so.
5:57
No, it was Chad GBT because we Chad GBT it right here in front of everybody.
6:00
Let me go look at the movie.
6:01
Oh, this is, this was my point.
6:02
You also want to look up what it calls action movies from the same era.
6:07
Three ninjas.
6:08
Right.
6:09
Oh, that was terrible.
6:10
Are we really saying?
6:11
Three ninjas.
6:12
Three ninjas.
6:13
Dude, action movie.
6:14
Tom Tom would smoke you with that action.
6:15
That's right.
6:16
We know what it's right.
6:17
Everybody knows what I'm talking about.
6:18
Y'all know what I'm talking about.
6:19
It's not an action movie.
6:20
Weird.
6:21
Because it says it's an action movie.
6:22
Yeah.
6:23
You're right.
6:24
So that to me really says that we need to stop looking at that for our basis of what
6:27
we're generating with the movies.
6:28
So I guess when you say action movie, you're like, you need some guy that can barely speak
6:32
English.
6:33
That's just like making grenades go off.
6:34
I mean, here's what I need.
6:35
Here's what I need.
6:36
Here's what I need.
6:37
If I say, hey, I want to go watch this movie.
6:39
My wife should go, if she doesn't, it's probably not an action movie.
6:44
So is Laura the Ring's an action movie then?
6:46
Because that should be everyone's response to, I'm going to go watch Laura the Ring's
6:49
just epic levels of disappointment.
6:51
I think it was an action movie that everybody would have a general consensus that it's
6:54
clearly an action movie.
6:56
We're about 50-50 here.
6:58
So it's obviously not.
6:59
We were 75% on the last table.
7:00
This is just a worst table.
7:01
Which I suggested that you should probably never get that group back together again in
7:05
the uniform.
7:06
Which was the group.
7:07
So it was Winkler?
7:08
Which he held strong.
7:10
Yeah, he was the only one that gave a Caesar's thumb down.
7:13
Thumbs down.
7:14
Yeah.
7:15
You need to mix that group up.
7:16
We have to remember what kind of taste we're dealing with here, right?
7:21
Lord of the Rings, greatest trilogy of all time.
7:23
I'm not against him on this.
7:24
Hold on.
7:25
And he just kind of silently not pretend like he didn't let me figure out that it wasn't
7:28
considered.
7:29
Verify.
7:30
This is IMDB, correct?
7:31
Yes.
7:32
What's number one here?
7:33
Lord of the Ring.
7:34
The one was.
7:35
His logic is based off of taking what they say.
7:38
That's for trilogy.
7:39
No, it's not saying the trilogy's number one is saying those three movies are in the
7:43
top spot, not as a group, because then it gets into the Godfathers after that.
7:47
Yeah.
7:48
Just grouping them.
7:49
So the three Lord of the Rings movies were better than any other trilogy movies of all
7:53
time.
7:54
No one listens to IMDB anyway.
7:55
That's not fair.
7:56
My bad.
7:57
Okay.
7:58
I really think an impartial voice here is needed.
7:59
And because I haven't even seen the movie, that's actually a great point.
8:02
My point is that it's clearly not an action movie and nobody cares.
8:06
So I care, not an action movie, this is the group.
8:12
This is a good group.
8:13
I feel like I've lost control already.
8:15
I've got the headband on like this is the headband of trust and power again.
8:19
No one's saying we don't like the movie.
8:21
Yes.
8:22
It's just not an action movie.
8:23
Wait, so we do like the movie?
8:24
We do like the movie.
8:25
We do like the movie.
8:26
We love the movie.
8:27
Thank you, Tiff.
8:28
It's great.
8:29
It's my favorite movie.
8:30
It's my favorite movie.
8:31
I'm going to make you watch it twice.
8:32
It's literally my favorite movie.
8:33
We need to go back to my open range.
8:34
We should go back to open range.
8:35
All right.
8:36
What did you watch open range for the first time?
8:38
When did it come?
8:39
I'm going to guess maybe late high school.
8:40
I would have guessed maybe '02, '03.
8:43
Is it that old?
8:44
20 years old.
8:45
Open range was 2003.
8:47
Oh, man.
8:48
Kevin Costland, Robert Duvall.
8:50
And I was pumped because we had a chat about Westerns and we agreed about basically every
8:54
Western.
8:55
Yeah, this one's not so good.
8:56
This one's great.
8:57
And I had never seen this one.
8:58
And so I go back and watch it, you know, you know, a few years ago, some in my mid 30s,
9:03
I could not believe how bored I was.
9:05
Did you make it at least to the end?
9:06
I watched the whole thing.
9:07
I watched the whole thing.
9:08
Was it an action scene or do we need to like have a debate about whether or not there was
9:11
an action scene at the end?
9:12
Kevin Costland walks up and blows the guy's head off at the point when you were involved.
9:16
Was there gunpowder involved?
9:17
Yeah.
9:18
Old school six shooters.
9:19
That's an easy like, yeah, action movie.
9:21
I'm not saying it has to have that, but that is an easy check mark.
9:24
Okay.
9:25
All right.
9:26
Do you remember what I said was going to be my answer before I switched it to karate
9:30
kit?
9:31
No.
9:32
Because let me just say, okay.
9:34
I have been swayed, but I'm not taking the headband off, but I haven't swayed at least
9:38
for this hour.
9:40
Okay.
9:41
I will admit it's probably not your quintessential 1980s action movie when you think about the
9:46
genre as a whole.
9:47
I do remember what you said.
9:48
Okay.
9:49
So I've I've been swayed by the non neutral observers and the neutral observers.
9:52
So there you go.
9:53
I've shown humility to the audience.
9:54
But what did I say was going to be?
9:55
Top gun, right?
9:56
No.
9:57
That was Eric's.
9:58
Okay.
9:59
You're my new blood sport.
10:00
Yeah.
10:01
Yeah.
10:02
Okay.
10:03
What?
10:04
What was you said?
10:05
What I said was is I like that was my pick for the best 80s action movie.
10:10
Oh, it's great.
10:11
And then I switched it at the last minute to be karate kid because I thought it was an
10:14
awesome point.
10:15
And apparently I'm a, you know, on an island by myself.
10:17
I think I've all agreed to our bill lethal weapon.
10:20
I don't know that I ever saw it.
10:22
Oh, dear.
10:23
Sorry.
10:24
There were those and I'm counting total recall because I thought about this later.
10:27
It was filmed in 89, which was released in 90 film.
10:31
Got to go by release date.
10:33
Blood sport.
10:34
No, total recall.
10:35
Total recall was the action movie of I'm actually, I mean, I'm genuine.
10:40
I'm genuinely shocked you have not seen the karate kid.
10:43
No, I just never had.
10:44
So when somebody says that they're the best around, you don't immediately just go into
10:47
the song.
10:48
Put him in a body bath.
10:49
You don't even react.
10:50
I could, I could be wrong, but I was, I was born in 84 and most of the people that really
10:54
liked the karate kid, I feel like we're born three to five years before me.
10:59
Well, I mean, 81.
11:00
That was the year it came out the year you were born.
11:03
I mean, I get, I mean, for, but I had an older brother that always, I've always shifted a
11:07
little bit.
11:08
See, I didn't, I didn't have, I had an older sister and she clearly wasn't, didn't care
11:11
about karate.
11:12
I mean, she might have, that's, that was my point.
11:15
She actually might have.
11:16
I own two bandanas in the 1980s.
11:19
That was one of them.
11:20
And the other one said, hulka mani on it.
11:22
Oh, man.
11:23
That was a big holster for sure.
11:24
Did you have wrestling buddies?
11:25
Oh, absolutely.
11:26
Okay.
11:27
There are pillows, but I had a whole kogan and I had a matcha man.
11:30
Randy Savage.
11:31
Okay.
11:32
I had a whole kogan.
11:33
I had Jake Snig Roberts and I had big boss man.
11:35
Nice.
11:36
Who's big boss?
11:37
I don't know who that is.
11:38
Yeah.
11:39
If I showed you a picture, you 100% know about you.
11:40
From Cobb County, Georgia.
11:41
My dad's favorite was Jim Hacksaw Duggan with the Hacksaw Jim Duggan.
11:45
I got a signed picture of him like in the attic somewhere.
11:47
Big boss man.
11:48
Hey, you know what's funny about that?
11:49
I actually didn't intend for us to go there, but I learned something here recently in Sunday
11:54
school.
11:55
So that's big boss man.
11:56
Oh, I do.
11:57
Absolutely.
11:58
He, but he was like an actual sheriff somewhere like before he got this.
12:00
I would know he was like a warden or something like that.
12:03
Anyway.
12:04
Yeah.
12:05
So there I am sitting in Sunday school.
12:06
This was two weeks ago and Jake, you weren't there and I don't know where you were doing
12:10
something important.
12:11
This is in Boston.
12:12
Yeah.
12:13
Whatever.
12:14
Yeah.
12:15
Whatever that's called.
12:16
And your wife completely like, you know, nobody teed her up like she nobody was asking
12:21
her any questions.
12:22
She just goes, yeah, Jake's really struggling with the death of Hulk Hogan.
12:26
I don't like it.
12:27
And I thought she was kidding.
12:28
I was like, I'm not happy about it.
12:29
And then we're like, Oh, really?
12:30
And so we went from like, that's funny to, Oh, religion, my concern is Jake.
12:34
Okay.
12:35
Because Terry Balleta died and then she's like, Oh yeah, Jake still watches wrestling all
12:40
the time.
12:41
I do.
12:42
Oh, really?
12:43
I do.
12:44
I can't.
12:45
I don't know why.
12:46
How many years old?
12:47
I don't care.
12:48
Can you show me how many you are on your hands?
12:49
I'm 44.
12:50
44.
12:51
Did you ever go to WrestleMania?
12:52
I wish I could.
12:53
You definitely have kept the secret.
12:54
I know.
12:55
I mean, it's, it's my guilty play.
12:56
And the cologne thing is just in the past now, we got shift focus to the wrestling thing.
13:01
So we're still in and you still this entertaining.
13:04
I'm sorry.
13:05
I don't know what to tell you.
13:06
I mean, that's in the name.
13:07
World wrestling entertainment.
13:08
Yeah.
13:09
Like you just, you never like, I guess grew up.
13:11
Oh, I mean, entertainment changed.
13:13
I was in the 80s.
13:14
I loved it.
13:15
I stopped loving it in the 90s and then I came back to it in the 90s.
13:19
And then I've just kind of circled back in and out of it.
13:21
Like whenever the NWO and the stone cold and everybody was, I mean, I got really into it.
13:26
Yeah.
13:27
I got really into it then.
13:28
And then who, who's your favorite now?
13:29
Like who is around?
13:30
Is it like days of our lives?
13:32
They just keep bringing them back.
13:33
Yeah.
13:34
Both.
13:35
Honestly, that's probably why I watch it more than anything else is they just keep bringing
13:38
the old guys back and, you know, then nostalgia.
13:41
Yeah.
13:42
It's under taker.
13:43
Summer slam 2026.
13:44
There's a 20% chance that they're probably dead from a heart attack at this point.
13:48
Yeah, maybe.
13:49
Yeah.
13:50
Most of those guys, yeah.
13:51
The Royds kind of effects out, but you just, I don't know what I've heard.
13:54
But I've heard is just that cause, you know, Vince is out now and like triple H is now being
13:58
the shot collar and whatever, but like it's just not as, I would like people, they tried
14:02
to push Roman Reigns for a while, but the fans were like, yeah, he's not really a thing.
14:05
No, no, it's good.
14:07
But he's the thing.
14:08
He's entertaining.
14:09
I'm flummoxed.
14:10
I got tired of like seeing the women get out there and like, you know, pulling their
14:15
clothes off.
14:16
I literally told Kelsey that.
14:17
So they don't do that anymore.
14:18
Well, they stopped it because it happened in one of like the pay per view ones were like
14:22
they did.
14:23
What's going on?
14:24
I watch frickin top cable.
14:25
Emily actually likes it too.
14:28
My youngest daughter.
14:29
Okay.
14:30
So we were watching Summerslam the other night.
14:31
There was somebody that literally did a back flip off of a ladder onto a table on the outside
14:36
of the ring.
14:37
I mean, it's just crazy frickin's like stunt man kind of stuff.
14:41
I mean, it's like I said, I find it entertaining.
14:44
I will say the Rey Mysterio stuff.
14:46
That's kind of like that.
14:47
That stuff is cool.
14:48
Yeah.
14:49
619, right?
14:50
Well, but yeah, now they have the guy.
14:51
I'm so lost.
14:52
Adam, now they have like guys, my size doing that kind of stuff.
14:54
I mean, it's just nuts.
14:55
But to your point, I was just talking about how James, he's five and like, I would like
14:59
to get him into wrestling.
15:00
But you know, when you're just flipping channels or just trying to see what's on and then if
15:04
there is a women's match on, they're essentially not wearing anything, right?
15:08
So they're dressed like strippers and then they're going out there doing all these athletic
15:11
things and end up in these very awkward positions and it's just like, I can't take James as
15:15
something like that.
15:16
No.
15:17
And then you'll hear, you know, the guys are cussing during their promos and things like
15:20
that.
15:21
You're bringing that back a little bit.
15:22
Because when we were kids, you know, 80s, early 90s, like, whole, whole commande was
15:26
like, read your Bible, eat your Bible and say your prayer.
15:29
Yeah.
15:30
And like that.
15:31
It's just way different now.
15:32
Cause then when you got into the attitude era, you had seventh graders going around telling
15:34
each other to suck at the entire time, right?
15:36
Cause a degeneration next and then like, that's when it changed.
15:39
That's whenever some of the gals started coming in that were, you know, dancing provostively
15:43
and that would be featured in gentlemen's magazines and, you know, it was just, it was
15:47
an entire era where it was like, why did my parents allow me to watch it?
15:51
We might need to explore this a little bit more cause this, the Bible's right in front
15:54
of me.
15:55
And what it actually said, this is amazing right here.
15:57
When, when, when this happens, it says, for this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable
16:01
passions for the women exchange natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.
16:05
And the men like ways gave up natural relations with women and we're consumed with passion
16:09
for one another.
16:10
So you're saying, Jake, I'm just wondering, I'm trying to make the connections here is
16:16
what the Bible said.
16:17
I didn't say it.
16:18
It's Jake, do you have anything to say for yourself?
16:21
Definitely not because it does sound like, does sound like you've been given up to dishonorable
16:25
passion for pro wrestling.
16:27
Yeah.
16:28
I don't, you know what?
16:29
You can mock me all you want.
16:30
I don't care.
16:31
But you've never been to WrestleMania.
16:32
No tickets are expensive.
16:33
Dude, I, I've heard that you make literally thousands of dollars every year.
16:36
Yeah.
16:37
That's, that's an expense.
16:38
I don't think I could justify though.
16:39
To be honest with you, my dad took me in like 1991 or 1990.
16:44
It was at the Civic Center.
16:46
Is that what it was called back then?
16:47
Do you think it was 1991 WrestleMania?
16:49
If I said, it wasn't.
16:50
WrestleMania.
16:51
It wasn't actually.
16:52
It was in Oklahoma City.
16:53
It wasn't WrestleMania.
16:54
It was just a normal show.
16:55
I've been like raw or something.
16:56
And they were here and Hulk Hogan was there.
16:58
Hacksaw Jim Duggan was there and I remember seeing Jake Snake and we were there for like
17:03
I don't know, two hours.
17:04
And I remember I had my little pillow for Hulk Hogan and I wanted him to sign it and I never
17:07
got him to come sign it.
17:08
But anyway.
17:09
Yeah.
17:10
So I was, I mean, I, I was a little shook up about Hulk dying.
17:14
I mean, I was a big Hulk and maniac guy.
17:16
He got saved.
17:17
How?
17:18
Literally about a month and a half ago.
17:19
How cool was that?
17:20
He got baptized.
17:21
You're half ago.
17:22
Yeah.
17:23
It was pretty recent.
17:24
Him and his wife both, right?
17:25
Yeah.
17:26
Yeah.
17:27
He got baptized and then he baptized her.
17:28
Yeah.
17:29
Pretty sweet.
17:30
Yeah.
17:31
No.
17:32
I mean, like I said, I mean, the guy, the guy was literally my childhood.
17:33
So I'm shook.
17:34
Why?
17:35
Because you just didn't know this about you.
17:36
I don't know if I know the person I'm sitting next to.
17:38
That's a lot of respect for me and all of this.
17:40
No.
17:41
That's why I tell Stacy.
17:42
I was like, I really wish you would not talk about it.
17:44
I have not lost respect for you, but we are in a Bible study together.
17:49
Yeah.
17:50
Besides this.
17:51
Y'all gone fishing together and never came up.
17:53
Every week, 6.30 in the morning for, I mean, I've been in that Bible study for like 12
17:58
or 13 years.
17:59
You've been in it for how many, three years now, we've talked about anything and everything
18:06
that you could possibly talk about and the fact that you have withheld this.
18:11
I don't know if I know who you are.
18:15
I don't really know.
18:16
I won't even say anything.
18:17
I won't say like, I won't bring it up.
18:19
I'm not going to throw you.
18:20
Yeah.
18:21
Other than all this.
18:22
Other than all this podcasting.
18:23
Nobody else.
18:24
Nobody else.
18:25
Well, since we have a bonafide wrestling expert here, I mean, I love making people choose
18:31
their favorites and choose their whatever.
18:32
And so Russell, you may not be able to participate in this because I don't know that you can
18:35
name four wrestlers.
18:37
If you, actually, we'll make you last, Adam, you go, I'll go and then you, you will actually
18:41
actually go first.
18:43
Okay.
18:44
All right.
18:45
Let's do it.
18:46
Let's do it.
18:47
And then we'll get down to the Bible.
18:48
Just in case we've lost half of our audience.
18:49
I don't know.
18:50
Maybe we got a whole new audience of nerds because they like to order the innings in
18:51
WWE.
18:52
I mean, I'm getting dived out.
18:54
WWE.
18:55
We nerd them right now.
18:56
Budget nine year olds.
18:57
Case correction.
18:58
It was it was WWF.
18:59
We were rolling that.
19:00
Okay.
19:01
We're with that.
19:02
It can't be any worse than a bunch of guys that think crowdy kid is an action movie.
19:06
We've already moved past that.
19:07
Okay.
19:08
I mean, I like, I'm just surprised.
19:09
Jake has a ripped his shirt off.
19:10
Yeah.
19:11
At this point.
19:12
Okay.
19:13
All right.
19:14
All right.
19:15
This is our Mount Rushmore professional.
19:16
Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, Andre the Giant that okay.
19:23
Mount Rushmore has four people on it.
19:24
All right.
19:25
So there you go.
19:26
That's your list.
19:27
All right.
19:28
Solid list.
19:29
All right.
19:30
So you got some some from every era.
19:31
I think you move from there.
19:32
So I mean, I'll have to go with just different.
19:33
I agree with a lot of those.
19:34
Let's go with different guys.
19:35
There's a rock on there.
19:36
You didn't put the rock on there.
19:37
That's incredible.
19:39
I think you've got to throw the undertaker on there because the undertaker lasted for
19:42
so long.
19:43
He was there.
19:44
Yeah.
19:45
I'm just going to throw my favorite Jake Snake.
19:48
He was number one in my mind.
19:49
And then macho man Randy's have Oh, no, we got to get him and Ric Flair.
19:54
Ric Flair.
19:55
We got to go.
19:56
That wasn't quite what he does.
19:58
Whoa, whoa.
19:59
That's way more.
20:01
Whatever it was.
20:02
A little bit.
20:03
Okay.
20:04
Yeah, so I think Ric Flair's got to be on there.
20:05
Ric Flair.
20:06
Jake the Snake.
20:07
Undertaker.
20:08
Undertaker and the rock.
20:09
Hi.
20:10
So got to go Hulk Hogan.
20:12
He's the biggest wrestling star of all time.
20:14
That's why he's on there.
20:15
I'll be good.
20:16
Got it.
20:17
Shut your mouth.
20:18
We got to go stone cold because he was probably he carried an entire era of wrestling, right?
20:21
So you got to go him.
20:22
I'm taking probably the best character of all time, which is undertaker because I think
20:26
like in ring stuff, but and then you got the iconic moments.
20:29
You got his hell in the cell with mankind, you got, you know, the cane, you know, his brother
20:33
come back and all that stuff, just the character and all that.
20:36
And then one that is not on a lot of people's list because yeah, I hear you a lot of people
20:40
put Ric Flair on theirs.
20:41
A lot of people put under Andrea the Giant.
20:43
You'll see Sean Michaels, who a lot of people think is the best in ring practitioner of all
20:46
time.
20:47
Give me Brett Hartman because it goes all the way back to my story, which I've told on.
20:51
I don't know if I told you guys, but right after college, there was no options for me
20:55
of like going home and like getting bailed out by my parents to do anything.
20:58
It was, it was me and I go right into 100% commission job right out of college.
21:02
And it, it, things are not going well.
21:04
I'm 22 years old, economies in the toilet.
21:06
This is 2008, 2009, right?
21:08
And I am down to my last 75 bucks as a human, right?
21:12
My roommate goes back home for, for Christmas or whatever.
21:16
It's freezing cold outside in Edmond, Oklahoma.
21:18
And I've got a, I'm sitting on the couch.
21:20
I've got a, like a, like a, like a space heater and I've got a blanket over the space heater
21:26
and me because I couldn't afford to keep the gas running to keep the heat going.
21:29
And so there I am and I'm just like, how did I let myself get here?
21:33
Like how did this happen?
21:34
And out of nowhere, I just go, I'm driving to Barnes and Noble and I'm buying the new
21:38
Bret Hart autobiography that it just came out.
21:40
So I go and spend a third of my net worth at Barnes and Noble to buy the Bret Hart autobiography
21:47
and I bring it back to my house and I throw that blanket over me in the space heater and
21:51
I'm sitting there reading and I was so engaged in the content.
21:53
I, I like melted the bottom of my, my house shoes and all that.
21:56
So things started looking up right after that.
21:58
So I'm, I'm happy to report, but yeah, he just always kind of had a special place.
22:01
Like the first guy that I dressed up as like as a kid for Halloween that I remember was
22:05
Bret Hart.
22:06
My, my family got me a Bret Hart dress up thing and like, you know, I always wish I
22:09
could have been one of the kids that got the glasses right whenever he gave his glasses
22:12
to a kid in the front row.
22:13
So Besser is, Besser was, Besser ever will be, but these are three novice opinions, right?
22:18
We don't have decades of fandom under our spell and so we don't care the way, no pun intended
22:26
that you carry.
22:27
So I definitely had a set of Hoquimania weights.
22:29
They were blue.
22:30
They were awesome.
22:31
Oh my God.
22:32
Can you imagine how those in your home gym right now?
22:33
They were awesome.
22:34
Dude.
22:35
Okay.
22:36
Give it to us, man.
22:37
So I'm going to just focus on bad guys, because I think they make wrestling more entertaining.
22:41
So Andre, the giant, back in the eighties, you know, when he ripped the chain off of
22:47
Hulk Hogan, broke up the friend who both Bobby, the brain he did.
22:51
Roddy Piper.
22:52
Oh, Roddy.
22:53
Roddy.
22:54
Roddy Piper.
22:55
Okay.
22:56
And then I'm actually going to put Triple H in there because the guy was just a quintessential
23:03
bad guy the entire time.
23:04
Oh, yeah.
23:05
Hulk Hogan's not on your Mount Rushmore.
23:07
Well, if I was doing a good guy Mount Rushmore, yeah, you would actually.
23:10
Okay.
23:11
I guess let's do it.
23:12
It's called a heel, by the way, for all of you, no officers, so that's your heel Mount
23:16
Rushmore.
23:17
Now let's go your baby face.
23:19
Hulk.
23:20
Hulk.
23:21
Stone cold.
23:22
You need to call anti-hero.
23:23
Yeah, he's kind of anti-hero, okay, I'll take it.
23:27
Stone cold.
23:28
Cena would have to be on there.
23:30
I never liked him, but he's, yeah, he's the ultimate good guy.
23:33
Who was the other guy?
23:34
You said bad guys.
23:35
And I just remembered somebody else.
23:36
I can't think of his name, but he was anti-Hulk Hogan.
23:38
It was him and Hulk Hogan for two years.
23:40
Ultimate Warrior.
23:41
That's what I told you.
23:42
Ultimate Warrior was a good guy.
23:43
What?
23:44
Yeah.
23:45
Yeah, but he was just insane.
23:46
He was just insane.
23:47
Technically.
23:48
Oh, I hated it.
23:49
He was also a space cadet.
23:50
Yeah, the other heel was Ted Tibiasi, which was hilarious.
23:54
The million dollar.
23:55
I saw a clip the other day.
23:56
That belt, dude.
23:57
Yeah.
23:58
I saw a clip the other day.
23:59
He's Christian now, by the way.
24:00
Yeah.
24:01
Pastor.
24:02
He said, I saw a clip the other day.
24:03
He told this kid if he could dribble a basketball 15 times, he would give him $1,000.
24:06
And the kid's dribbling and he's counted off.
24:09
And then at 14, Tibiasi just kicks the ball away from the spot.
24:13
So good.
24:14
That's good.
24:15
That's the best bad guy thing.
24:17
Good.
24:18
Oh, my God, you got so close, kid, but anyways, yeah, so, yeah, that would be, I guess I haven't
24:24
given a fourth or baby face for the probably sting.
24:29
Oh, okay.
24:30
Going with the only W mainly WCW guy that yeah, he was he was the only one.
24:35
Well, I guess he's done some he came over to WWE at some point, right?
24:38
Forest forest tent.
24:39
Forest tent.
24:40
All right.
24:41
Because I remember him doing something outside.
24:42
Was it?
24:43
Did he do a run with Randy Orton?
24:46
No.
24:47
He fought triple H. Okay, well, see, you're in a psychopedia, brother, and they brought
24:53
out.
24:54
They brought out like the India, NWO came out to fight with sting and then DX came out
24:59
with fight with triple H. It was like, Oh, man, as you saying, it's all remember, I'm
25:03
remember.
25:04
Yeah.
25:05
A lot of fun.
25:06
As you say it.
25:07
Dude, did you have the video games on N64 to heck?
25:08
Yeah.
25:09
Yeah.
25:10
Yeah.
25:11
I had the WCW revenge game.
25:12
Yes.
25:13
And well, what was the cover?
25:14
And then it was like Raven, and it's like how did he make it all in here?
25:19
Like, what is Raven?
25:20
Nobody wants to play with Raven on this game.
25:23
Yeah.
25:24
Right, Russ?
25:25
You know what you're talking about?
25:26
No.
25:27
Yeah.
25:28
Russ, for your sake, we're going to kind of bring this all the way back around.
25:30
I had no intentions.
25:31
I have one more question.
25:32
Okay.
25:33
I'm so sorry.
25:34
Man, do you do a mock draft with anybody?
25:38
Do you have a whole other group of friends that know wrestling?
25:43
No.
25:43
Don't get scared.
25:44
I'm going to watch Royal Rumble.
25:45
No.
25:46
I'm just feeling a little betrayed.
25:47
But as long as you don't have a whole other group.
25:49
I see that.
25:50
I see that.
25:51
Yeah.
25:52
This is, and I've told my wife this, and she thinks it's adorable, but it is my single
25:56
greatest shame that I still find this entertaining.
25:59
I just am like, man, I still like it.
26:00
I don't know what to tell you.
26:01
Okay.
26:02
Just embrace it.
26:03
It's all good.
26:04
Yeah.
26:05
Dude, at this point, lean into it.
26:06
But I'm going to make it, because look at Horn in the cologne thing.
26:08
He's not leaned away from that even a little bit.
26:10
And now he is buying like holy intact socks, so we have expanded his, his repertoire on
26:15
the wardrobe department.
26:16
You know, that's where you're right.
26:17
Yep.
26:18
Okay.
26:19
So, but this I will dedicate and we'll go hands in on this, Adam and Russ.
26:23
The next time at WWE event comes to Oklahoma State, whether it's a RAW or a SmackDown or
26:29
a pay-per-view, we are there.
26:31
We're there.
26:32
All of us together.
26:33
Four Musketeers.
26:34
Hands in.
26:35
Hands in.
26:36
Get out of here, Jake.
26:37
Let's go.
26:38
All right, here we go.
26:39
And we're going.
26:40
And we're wooing.
26:41
We're taking signs.
26:42
But the thing is, is we're going to take signs from our air.
26:44
You're not recording.
26:45
Right.
26:46
So that was, oh yeah, I didn't really just have an air.
26:47
They hit the record button.
26:48
No, but I'm going to like, we'll have signs that represent, you know, people that aren't
26:51
even hearing.
26:52
Absolutely.
26:53
I'll be like, super fly.
26:54
Jimmy Schmooka.
26:55
Like that's who I'm going to be.
26:56
I'll buy us all, I'll buy us all 80s wrestler's t-shirts.
26:57
It'll be great.
26:58
Okay.
26:59
I'll go with that.
27:00
I'll frame my own sleeves like Macho Man.
27:01
Yeah.
27:02
We should definitely dress up.
27:03
Yeah.
27:04
I don't know, I've only been to one, I've only ever been to one.
27:09
And it was when I was 16.
27:10
I heard Rick James.
27:12
I heard Rick James.
27:13
He's like, they dressed like Rick James.
27:15
Hey, why would they, why would they do that?
27:18
Jake, how have you only been to one thing?
27:20
Just where would you?
27:21
I mean, I've just never felt compelled to go.
27:23
It's very different when you're, I've been to one and it's so different when you go in
27:27
person.
27:28
Hey, can you get on your, your iPhone here?
27:29
Cause this is like an iPhone size for people like you.
27:31
See when the WWE comes like, I don't go to AEW or any of these other like, you know, ratchet
27:37
things that are trying to be WWE.
27:39
We're going name brand.
27:40
Okay.
27:41
We need you to look it up.
27:42
We can't move on to what the business we need to attend to until we know the tour schedule
27:46
and we see whenever it's come.
27:47
Why are you so disappointed in this?
27:48
This is a big moment.
27:49
I'm so upset with Stacy right now.
27:52
I have a, I have a good way to tell you what to wear.
27:54
Have you ever gone to a NASCAR race?
27:56
I have not.
27:57
But I'd just wear, just wear whatever you would wear to a NASCAR race.
28:00
This is an issue where to a WWE show off the bad tattoos, right?
28:05
You know, show off the bad, like farmer's tan thing.
28:08
You got going on?
28:09
Come on, Jake.
28:10
I'm going to go to like jeans where one leg is tucked into the boot, you know, one leg
28:14
is one leg is out.
28:15
Well, maybe only one sleeve missing, one sleeve, one sleeve missing.
28:18
I have this weird prayer that I'm like going to be out of town when they're going to be
28:22
here.
28:23
So maybe cut off shorts, cut off shorts are also acceptable.
28:26
Oh man.
28:27
November 24th.
28:28
Oh, that's right after my birthday.
28:30
Oh, that's hunting season.
28:31
That's hard.
28:32
It's one day.
28:33
It's one day.
28:34
I'm killing a deer that day for sure.
28:35
Yeah, in the morning, but in the evening, we will be worshiping at the altar of whoever
28:38
is the champion, Jordan Rhodes or something.
28:40
Wait, wait, wait.
28:41
So what is it?
28:42
November 24th.
28:43
Monday night or Oh, Monday night.
28:45
But you're not hunting on Monday night.
28:46
We're so good.
28:47
I'm gonna encounter right now.
28:50
Let's see.
28:51
Oh, look at all that.
28:52
Look, I've got so much.
28:53
Look, it even says no meetings on November 24th until 5 p.m.
28:57
No one knows raw.
28:58
Does it sound like a family game night?
29:00
No, the game is going to be dad's missing.
29:03
See, that's why I'm trying to put family game night on your calendar because then every
29:08
Monday night.
29:09
Oh, sorry.
29:10
Family game night.
29:11
No, guys, we already put our hands in and we're all putting in our counters right now.
29:15
November the 24th, Monday night raw with 10 exclamation points.
29:19
That is the first day of Thanksgiving break.
29:21
So just just keep that in mind.
29:23
Yeah, just let think of the amount of time we have to prepare our families to let them
29:26
know priorities, get your priorities straight because we're recording this in August, y'all.
29:31
So we're there.
29:32
Jake, we're there.
29:33
You coordinated.
29:34
We're going.
29:35
We were just talking to Sunday school this morning about guys events that we can all
29:37
go to.
29:38
Is there anything more mainly than dudes going and doing something like this?
29:41
What happens?
29:42
There's a lot of stuff more mainly than that.
29:43
What happens if we go and we, the three of us, novices love it and we're like, we're
29:49
back in.
29:50
I'm telling you.
29:51
Back in hard.
29:52
What a beautiful thing that would be.
29:53
Right.
29:54
How much closer will we get to the weekly?
29:55
I don't know.
29:56
He'll actually tell us who he is.
29:57
Would that have been your wrestling name?
29:59
You would have been the Winkler.
30:00
No.
30:01
Your finish would have been winking on somebody or something.
30:03
That'd be like your people's eyebrows.
30:05
You're winking at everybody.
30:06
All right.
30:07
I'm going to make fun of myself a little bit more here.
30:08
So I had a buddy of mine who was also really into wrestling and we were going to be a tag
30:12
team.
30:13
We were going to call ourselves leaving alone.
30:16
The winky Twinkies.
30:17
Yeah.
30:18
You're going to like that.
30:19
Yeah.
30:20
It's actually worse.
30:21
We were going to be called vicious and delicious.
30:22
That's.
30:23
Yes.
30:24
Yes.
30:25
Yes.
30:26
Yes.
30:27
Oh.
30:28
Write that down.
30:29
We've got to know who would have been delicious.
30:31
Was not me.
30:32
Okay.
30:33
The other the other guy considered himself a little bit of his ladies man but.
30:37
Yikes.
30:38
Vicious and delicious.
30:39
I think I like.
30:40
Who are the guys that would walk around like this.
30:41
The Bushwhacker.
30:42
The Bushwhacker.
30:43
Yeah.
30:44
Okay.
30:45
You know how you do those little clips on Instagram where it's only like a small piece
30:47
and it's it's highlighted for the show.
30:50
Yeah.
30:51
That needs to be that's easy.
30:52
Vicious.
30:53
I mean, there's like 17 of those that have happened so far in this episode.
30:55
And we haven't even gotten down to business.
30:56
Hey, what time does it start and have you bought the tickets already?
31:00
630.
31:01
I have not.
31:02
630.
31:03
You got to put that in the counter.
31:04
We were good tickets too.
31:05
I mean, we want to be down there.
31:06
You need to feel the sweat and blood.
31:07
Where's it at?
31:08
Pay comp center.
31:09
Pay comp center.
31:10
Yeah.
31:11
I'm not sitting up in the loud city or something like that.
31:12
I want to smell Roman Reigns or whoever's own money.
31:15
This is a business.
31:16
This is a business deduction.
31:17
Surely, right?
31:18
I wish.
31:19
It's got to be business deduction.
31:20
That'd be great if it was.
31:21
I don't think they allow entertainment deductions anymore though.
31:23
Oh, I don't know.
31:24
I think the big beautiful bill got rid of a lot of that fun stuff.
31:28
So.
31:29
Yeah, but it's government.
31:30
You do government stuff.
31:31
I'm doing this as a service project actually.
31:33
Yeah.
31:34
Yeah.
31:35
So yeah, this is your reminder.
31:36
It's got my Mount Rush right here on top and it's just going to say raw and this is
31:41
what you're putting this in your pocket and you're going to go home and you're telling
31:43
that lovely lady Winkler that it's going down and she knows.
31:47
I'm going to tell her this is her fault.
31:49
This isn't delicious.
31:50
It's got to happen.
31:52
Dude, you know how to make AI images.
31:54
Let's get him.
31:55
Can we get a picture of your buddy?
31:56
Delicious.
31:57
That's a word.
31:58
No.
31:59
My wife has a screen printing thing where she can make sure.
32:01
So all we have to do is tell him.
32:03
I mean, it's funny.
32:04
This guy is.
32:05
I mean, you know, he's all he's a pretty big time attorney.
32:09
So I just want to share it.
32:11
He's not still into it like I mean, he wants to watch it, but his wife is basically like
32:14
absolutely not.
32:15
So he's delicious.
32:16
He's right.
32:17
I want to share this.
32:18
I was always delicious.
32:19
I'm like delicious.
32:20
Hey, since you already did this, what was yells like tagline and what was it finished?
32:26
Oh, we didn't have it.
32:27
We didn't think about that.
32:28
Not true.
32:29
You didn't have that finishing move.
32:30
No.
32:31
Biggest lie in the history of this.
32:32
No.
32:33
I did not have a finishing move.
32:34
Shaking bag.
32:35
I wish I had.
32:36
I mean, honestly, if I had something, listen, I just coped to vicious and delicious.
32:39
If you don't think I would actually admit to a finishing move, good point, I will accept
32:43
that point.
32:44
It's got to be something like something harsh and then like a kiss on the cheek and it
32:48
passes out.
32:51
Right.
32:52
So you like, I said, you bulldog Nelson.
32:55
I'm right.
32:56
And then you're like waving DDT in him and all that.
32:59
And then the guy just kisses him.
33:01
He falls over.
33:02
He just flat.
33:03
And do you both pin him?
33:04
Or is it?
33:05
Did you take a little bit of a little bit of back a little bit of give and take pictures
33:10
and delicious?
33:11
No.
33:12
No.
33:13
Again, Jesus, what has been uncovered all because I wanted to argue about the karate
33:16
kid.
33:17
How?
33:18
Oh, the tangle web we weave this, by the way, a masterclass into flexion.
33:23
We were all over you on karate kid and suddenly it's on me for WWE.
33:26
Well, here's another deflection.
33:27
We're going, we're going to go back to the book of Romans.
33:29
We're half an hour into this thing.
33:32
But you know what's funny?
33:33
According to David Thompson, my dad, some of his favorite parts, he watches every episode
33:38
of this podcast.
33:39
He loves the first part of the forging table when we get after each other.
33:42
And he's like, who's that guy?
33:43
Oh, he's good after him.
33:44
I'm like, Ryan, don't even have to say it.
33:46
He's Ryan Horn.
33:47
He's like, yeah, I love when y'all y'all just give it back and forth to each other.
33:49
So anyway, that was for David Thompson.
33:52
There you go.
33:53
Dad.
33:54
That was for you.
33:55
David, but here we are.
33:56
We are getting into the book of Romans.
33:57
And just as a reminder, because, you know, especially for these first few recordings for
34:00
Romans, I do want to remind the audience, we decided as a group that we're going to
34:03
be approaching Romans just quite a bit differently because we're all meeting on the back porch.
34:07
I kind of pitched all on this idea.
34:09
It was going to be a little bit uncomfortable for us and definitely a change of pace and
34:13
a change of our preparation.
34:14
But we're not approaching Romans like we've approached Nehemiah and Matthew and all these
34:18
things where it's like, hey, we're doing in one chapter in an hour and however, whatever
34:21
we talk about, we talk about and then we just got to move on.
34:24
We are literally diving deep into the book of Romans.
34:27
We're approaching it like it is Mount Rushmore.
34:29
That's what Matt Chandler said.
34:30
He's like, look, this, this letter is Mount Rushmore.
34:32
And so again, thank you to Matt Chandler for spending four hours with, with our audience
34:36
and recording those first four episodes.
34:38
And in four hours, we, we got through about six and a half, six and a half versus, right?
34:43
I mean, we spent two and a half hours roughly on Romans one one, but we are going to get
34:48
in to it today and we're going to be starting with seven.
34:51
We're going to be reading verse seven.
34:54
But I did actually, I don't want to take too, too long here, but y'all haven't been
34:58
on for our Romans recording yet.
35:00
All of y'all at different times reached out to me or expressed not concern to me, but
35:05
I could, I could tell that in our group message, when we weren't fighting about things that
35:09
are clearly action movies or things like that, when everyone kind of feels the weight.
35:13
Of the preparation for this.
35:15
And so for you two, y'all were in a Bible study previously where y'all spent basically
35:20
a year in the book of Romans, but then it, I don't know about you guys.
35:23
I'll let you speak for yourself.
35:25
Something feels different about whenever we decide, I remember what it felt like when
35:28
I said, when we decide we were going to do Matthew, it's like, Oh boy, we're doing a
35:31
gospel.
35:32
Like if we really got to put on our big boy pants and, you know, getting into Genesis
35:36
it's like, okay, that's a year in Genesis, like we can't mess this up.
35:39
But with Romans, it just feels way heavier for some reason.
35:41
I guess for whatever reason for me, when I have a chapter, I was like, okay, I know
35:45
exactly how much material we're looking at.
35:47
I can have three or four bullet points ready to go.
35:50
And for me, you guys might feel the same way, I don't want to look stupid or look like
35:53
an idiot.
35:54
I don't want to say something.
35:55
It makes sense.
35:56
Yeah.
35:57
And to be completely vulnerable, we just had Mr. Matt Chandler sitting here.
36:03
And what he had to say, I'm sure has to be drastically better than anything I could possibly
36:07
say.
36:08
So I feel, I feel a little bit of fish out of water here and I've never, I've never done
36:11
something like this out in the open where I'm trying to go through scripture verse by
36:16
verse and tear it apart the way we're trying to do it.
36:18
So it feels uneasy to me.
36:20
No, I think, you know, Terry had a series.
36:24
Shout out, Terry Fakes.
36:26
Terry had a series, man, I can't remember I was trying to look it up what the name of
36:30
it was.
36:31
It was a Wednesday night series.
36:32
What is Christianity?
36:33
Oh.
36:34
And so for what is Christianity or what is it all about, something like that?
36:39
It was the book of Romans.
36:41
And so that's why I think, I mean, I probably have a little being in the Bible study and
36:45
stuff and seeing, seeing that y'all's notes are much more in depth than mine.
36:50
But that's kind of how I do the Bible study too, is I, you know, go in and listen and,
36:54
you know, kind of pop up things that, that I've heard and read through different stuff.
37:01
But that book is the best example of if you want somebody to see what Christianity is,
37:08
if they read through Romans, they'll get a really good picture of not only who Christ
37:13
was, but what it looks like to join into the way to follow Christ and not just the story
37:19
of it, but the examples and explanations of why we do what we do.
37:24
Well, and I think as well, because yeah, shout out to Pastor Mark Hitchcock at Faith Bible
37:28
Church in Edmond, Oklahoma, a expository preacher going through books of the Bible, verse by
37:32
verse, we're, we just started the book of Ephesians last week, again, we're recording
37:38
this in August, but I, I, I argument could be made that the most theologically dense letter
37:46
of Paul is Ephesians because of how short it is and how basically every phrase is pregnant
37:51
with theology and meaning.
37:53
But the most theologically, uh, all encompassing, I guess would be Romans, which is why people
37:59
call it Mount Everest because some people prefer to climb K to or Denali or whatever,
38:04
but it's like there's only one Mount Everest.
38:06
And so you're kind of getting both sides of that, which kind of goes to your point a
38:09
little bit.
38:10
But what about you, Jake?
38:11
I kind of look at Romans.
38:12
It's, it's like, um, if you're familiar with cliff notes, oh yeah, to me, it's like the
38:17
cliff notes of the entire scripture of all the Bible, uh, you see Paul kind of dance
38:23
in and out of the Old Testament, um, you know, he's obviously writing to both Gentiles and
38:28
Jews here, uh, the, you know, every time he's quoting the Old Testament, I always, I'm always
38:35
having to remind myself, like Gentiles don't get this.
38:39
So he's talking to the Jews.
38:40
Yeah.
38:41
Gentiles don't get this.
38:42
They don't know the Old Testament when he's writing this, um, this was written 20 years
38:47
after his road to Damascus, uh, the conversion there about 20 years after.
38:53
And so, you know, if you kind of think about everything that happened to him everywhere
38:58
he's been, where he shared the gospel over the 20 year timeframe, it's almost like to
39:03
me, if you've been doing this for 20 years, you've probably perfected your message.
39:08
And so in a real sense, it's like, yeah, I'm not just, I'm not just giving you, not
39:14
just giving you the gospel here.
39:16
I'm literally, this is the word, all of it, all in one place.
39:21
Well, guys, we've, or please since since you were talking specifically about Paul, am
39:25
I the only one at the table and I'm going to feel really silly if I am, am I the only
39:29
one at the table that did not know that not only was Paul, I knew that I didn't know he's
39:34
a Pharisee to begin with.
39:35
I did not.
39:36
I knew that.
39:37
That's crazy.
39:38
I did.
39:39
Not just that.
39:40
It's not like the Jew of Jews Pharisee, Pharisee, I knew he was persecuting Christians
39:46
and road to Damascus.
39:47
That's when he was converted.
39:50
But I did not know that he was actually a Pharisee.
39:52
Jew Pharisee, Pharisees, Roman citizen, I mean, gosh, this guy had no, because when
39:58
people try to like explain, ah, how could the Bible, you know, why would a guy like
40:01
Paul, they're like, you know, Paul was, he was a businessman, like he saw the writing
40:05
on the wall.
40:06
He was a politician.
40:07
Like he knew things are going to shift.
40:08
No, Roman citizen, Pharisee, Pharisees, Jew, there was no reason whatsoever for him
40:14
to join the way.
40:15
Isn't it weird in life how like, yeah, I've been exposed to church.
40:17
I was, went to a Christian school, went to a Christian college, go to, been to church regularly,
40:22
familiar with Paul.
40:23
I'd never heard that he was a Pharisee.
40:25
I don't know how did I miss that man.
40:26
But dude, the amount of things that I miss whenever having none of that, and then some
40:31
of the things that I'm like, oh, I just read it and still not in there somehow.
40:34
I don't know.
40:35
It shocked me.
40:36
I was like, oh, wow.
40:37
Who was, who was his, because he studied under Camillia?
40:38
Camillia.
40:39
Yeah.
40:40
Yeah.
40:41
And so that guy, I didn't realize, but he still has a following, like, like, Camillia.
40:44
Yeah.
40:45
Like he is a rabbi that was, like you said, this was not a business plan by, by him because
40:51
he was already in the best position.
40:53
Yeah.
40:54
He was like the top student of this guy.
40:55
You know, like you don't leave that spot.
40:57
Everybody around him, even, even if he hadn't gone this direction, if he would have just
41:01
picked a different rabbi, which I guess technically you could say he did, but if he would have
41:06
just picked a different rabbi within the Jewish faith, everybody would have said, well, you
41:10
just left the top guy to go to some second tier, you know, even within that culture.
41:15
So I mean, like, yeah, Harvard business review would not have done an article on his pick
41:19
of a, of a business move or an investment.
41:21
So let's, let's do verse seven.
41:23
So we got to verse seven last week, but Adam just read verse seven and let everyone know
41:29
a version reading.
41:30
Oh, I don't know.
41:31
ESV.
41:32
Yeah.
41:33
To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints, grace to you and peace
41:37
from God, our father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
41:40
So, you know, grace to you.
41:42
That's kind of a typical greeting for Paul.
41:44
So if you go to first Corinthians one, there's, you know, another kind of grace to you reference
41:48
there.
41:50
But again, he's writing a letter to those in Rome, to the believers in Rome, to the church
41:54
in Rome for a city that as we'll see very shortly, he's longed to go to, but has never
41:59
been to yet.
42:01
But an interesting thing here is he's addressing, he's addressing this to the saints, right?
42:08
And I forget the commentary.
42:09
I forgot to write it down.
42:10
So I'd love to be able to give credit, but it's like you hear the words saints.
42:14
And so there's some, you know, obviously Jake from your Catholic background.
42:17
There's some, you know, standards there and there's some like, okay, here's the boxes
42:20
you have to check to check to be considered for sainthood.
42:23
But the, the thing that I wrote down was being saints is our profession.
42:27
It is above every other marker of us is being a saint because saints mean sanctified ones.
42:35
And sanctification doesn't come through anything else than the blood of Christ through the,
42:40
the faith that there was perpetuation for our individual sin debt.
42:45
And so yeah, let's just start our discussion there with verse seven.
42:48
See how far we go.
42:49
We circled around the same thing and I circled also the word sanctified and it means exactly
42:54
means to be set apart by the Holy Spirit.
42:56
You've been set to the side.
42:57
And so I went down the road of who are the saints.
43:00
So we're, we've got this guy who's a Pharisee and now he's, he's talking to the Gentiles,
43:05
he's talking to the Jews, talking to the Greeks.
43:06
Who is it?
43:07
It's all of us.
43:08
It's all of us who are a part of the church who have been beloved by God.
43:12
All of us are saints, all of us at this table, all of us who believe we are all part of that
43:15
group.
43:16
What about you guys on seven, because this is the end of his greeting, right?
43:22
So, and I mean, there, there's so much even here in the greeting, we, we don't even yet
43:27
know what he's going to be talking about.
43:29
I don't want to, you know, I'm real careful to try to not beat up on the Catholic stance
43:34
on this as far as saints, but I would like to know, I mean, Jake, maybe from your background,
43:39
I mean, they came across this scripture, was it talked about as if, as if this was just
43:46
kind of to a different audience and it's not the same type of same, you know, Catholics
43:51
don't read their Bible.
43:52
Well, then I thought about that too.
43:54
I was like, well, I wonder if this was just not a really like, hey, let's, let's go and
43:58
study this little piece right here.
44:00
I mean, what, what do you think from your history?
44:02
So, so number one correction.
44:04
So they do read their Bible. I mean, they read, they, the structure of every service
44:10
is you have two scriptures read one Psalm and then actually scripture, Psalm, scripture,
44:18
and then gospel.
44:20
So you get that every, every service at every mass.
44:24
As far as same hood, I mean, perfectly honest, you, you know, it's almost like they have
44:31
their hall of fame saints, but they don't, I don't really recall them mentioning a lot
44:37
of the saints in mass.
44:40
You would hear, you would hear them talk about Mary, okay?
44:43
So Mary would be a part of service.
44:46
And you would hear them talk about Jesus and our Lord and the Holy Spirit and, and, and
44:51
all of those things, but it's not like they, you know, just like any other faith, you have
44:57
people who took their, you take their eye off the ball. Okay. I think, you know, Kyle,
45:02
you've said before, it's not like all Catholics, it's not, no, it's not like all Catholics
45:06
are lacking salvation. Some of them have put their faith in Christ.
45:09
Yeah.
45:10
The issue is, is there's a lot who have decided to elevate what I would say the hall of fame
45:14
saints because it's not really the saints, the way I would read it from the scriptures,
45:19
where all saints as followers of Christ, but they put their focus on the hall of famers.
45:24
So do you, do you feel like Catholics read this? And when they read the word saints that
45:27
they think of people who have been sainted? Yeah. And I mean, I think, I think it's definitely
45:32
more focused on, and, and it's interesting because, you know, it's not capital S saints.
45:37
It's lowercase. I mean, it's, it's meant to be in body more than just certain people.
45:43
And he's specifically talking to the ones in Rome. And so, yeah, Catholicism would have
45:49
to be like, okay, so it's only the people that had met the standards of sainthood that
45:54
were currently residing in Rome during the three years before Paul got there.
45:59
Yeah. Well, and I think the better, the only one that I think would be, well, Peter wasn't
46:03
there. No, so I mean, nobody.
46:05
I think the better argument here, if I am on that stance is not to say that it was talking
46:10
about saints, but it says, uh, those loved by God and called to be saints. That it wasn't
46:16
defining these people are saints. Yeah, basically we are all called to sainthood in even the Catholic
46:23
form, but only there are a small few who achieved it. That's, that's, if I'm going to, you know,
46:28
build the argument for the other side, that's where I would, I would kind of be like, well,
46:32
yeah, this is saying for everybody that God loved, it's called to be saints. And we're all called
46:36
to that sainthood type of faith. Yeah, but what does it really mean? I mean, when you start talking
46:41
about sainthood, I mean, yeah, I mean, well, no, I mean, but even the ones that you would say are
46:47
the Hall of Famers, uh, you know, the St. Christopher's and the St. Nicholas and St. Michael, uh,
46:54
when you start going through those, I mean, really what you're talking about here,
46:58
what does it mean to be a saint? It just means obedience. It just means obedience. It's,
47:03
I've been consumed by the Holy Spirit. I consistently obey the Holy Spirit.
47:07
I do what it tells me to do. I do what it is asking me to do. And, and I'm unequivocally
47:15
obeying that. So, but there is different criteria for sainthood within the Catholic.
47:21
Well, sure. They're talking about miracles. You have to miracle. You have to, what do you know?
47:26
I mean, can you reference generally, generally, it is, I mean, it is the faithful obedience, but
47:32
it's also there's, there generally has to be a, you have to be able to point to three miracles.
47:38
I think when I say, when you say, when we say the word miracle, we're going to probably think
47:43
one thing, but some of it is just like, um, a natural occurrence. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would
47:50
be like, okay, you went into an area that basically did not know Christ at all and you left and
47:56
everybody knew Christ and, and you know, so the faithful evangelism can actually lead to that. I
48:02
mean, we have one of the, actually a Catholic saint is from Oklahoma City, St. Stanley Roder.
48:08
Yeah. So, um, and, and if you actually go and read his story, it wasn't like he's,
48:13
it's not like you can actually point to like, Oh, that is something absolutely supernatural that
48:18
happened. You know, it's, it seemed the more I've read into it, it's, it seems like they get,
48:23
they went hunting and finding for the miracle. It's like, did it? Well, they have that. Yeah,
48:28
they all do. I mean, yeah. I've got a description of the process here. So, uh,
48:34
first is a reputation for holiness. So a life of virtue, holiness, fidelity.
48:38
Then there's the official process. So a local bishop will investigate the person's life,
48:42
writings, reputation of holiness. The pope will recognize that person lived, uh, heroic,
48:47
virtuous life. Um, then there's the beautification, which is at least one, uh, verified miracle.
48:54
The exceptions are martyrs. Um, and, you know, this allows for local and regional, uh,
49:01
veneration. Then there's canonization, which is a second verified miracle,
49:04
uh, is required unless the person's a martyr. And then the pope formally declares that person
49:08
a saint so that miracles have to be scientifically unexplained, usually healings, uh,
49:13
investigated through medical and theological experts, considered confirmation of the person's
49:17
presence in heaven and their intercession with God. And then, uh, standards of life, uh,
49:22
basically heroic virtue and living out of the Christian faith, orthodoxy and belief,
49:26
basically meaning that they're Catholic, uh, holiness in ordinary or extraordinary
49:30
circumstances and endurance and suffering and unwavering faithfulness to Christ.
49:33
So it looks like a couple of miracles of minimum that cannot be explained scientifically.
49:37
Yeah. Which is the people better. Who makes that decision? Like who, who came up with that?
49:40
The pope, who's obviously we had an unbroken, uh, pope, you know,
49:44
pope reasons, you know, the first entry, obviously. Saint Peter, uh, the first pope.
49:48
Which I mean, it's, it's papal authority. I mean, so,
49:53
uh, if you want to go back to, uh, I mean, if you kind of want to under,
49:57
if you're wanting to understand like their thought process, as you try to maybe evangelize
50:02
to a Catholic, um, in terms of, you know, uh, a faith based upon grace and, and mercy
50:11
as opposed to, uh, works, you know, the salvation through grace, uh, the message that you basically
50:18
have to get across is it's, it's not too dissimilar to what you would encounter with someone
50:23
who's Islamic because they've been brought up where there is an authority and I mean, honestly,
50:31
as the, with Francis, as he passed away, one of the things that actually did happen that was
50:37
maybe kind of good. Uh, as far as him being a pope, as it did kind of shake a lot of Catholics
50:42
out of the papal authority. Everyone I know. Yeah. If I ever talked to any of them, they would get
50:47
shifty and like lukewarm on Francis. Why was that? What was the, because he was so, he was
50:53
very liberal pope and he was very open door to it. And they kind of felt like it was a, it was a,
50:59
a move away from the tradition. So that kind of, almost felt like a universalist a little bit
51:05
is, is really where it was going. And every time I ever asked or poked around it, you could just
51:10
tell they were uncomfortable. Yeah. They did not like talking about Francis and which to me is a
51:14
problem because they've elevated him to this position to where you can't be uncomfortable with
51:19
them. Like he's the mouthpiece of God. If he's the mouthpiece of God, then you can't be like,
51:23
Oh, I don't really know if I agree with what he's saying here. That's a problem.
51:27
Correct. And the Vatican. So this was always the question I would ask that we would go from
51:31
shifty to silent, but I would ask some, and I've, I've got friends of mine that are just super
51:36
devout, amazing people. Like I would certainly consider them to be Catholics who are safe.
51:41
Sure. And I would be like, okay, so if the pope says something that disagrees with the Bible,
51:48
who holds authority, like to whose authority do we appeal to the authority of scripture or to
51:55
the authority of the pope? And I never got an answer. I would get some sort of cobbled together
52:01
together answer that, well, it's both and soul scripture doesn't make any sense because they
52:04
didn't have scripture in the early church and all that. So whose authority would there have been?
52:08
And they go back to their interpretation, which is that when Jesus said on this rock, I would
52:12
build my church. It's not the rock of salvation, but it's the rock of Peter, you know, the first
52:16
century former fishermen. And so that's kind of the difference with how they would consider that.
52:21
But yeah, lots of awkwardness. Yeah. I mean, again, going, just going back to that authority
52:27
argument, I mean, it is when when your authority is a human being, because despite what they might
52:36
think that is what the pope is, it is simply a human being, then then yeah, you are you're subject
52:44
to so like, you're you're basically just listening and going along with what someone who has also
52:51
fallen has gone into. The issue is like, and for Protestants, our authority is the scripture itself.
52:58
But it's also why we have like 10,000 denominations, because somebody will read scripture and go,
53:04
well, I think it means this. And well, I think you're wrong. And I think it means this.
53:08
And so we're going to split up over that. Well, that literally came up this morning in our
53:14
service this morning, because, you know, as as Joby likes saying, as a lot of people like to say,
53:18
and scripture just says what it says. Well, no, it's like, it means what it means. And we try to
53:25
discern what it means. And in that discernment process, you get people that think, oh, if you're
53:30
not baptized, you can't go to heaven, right? Or if you have another, you know, hey, not supposed
53:36
to have instruments during worship, or you have to have this type of music, or your service has
53:41
to be this link, or this is exactly how you have to be saved. You have to have an altar call,
53:46
you have to have people to be able to come down, you have to have elders, you have to have women
53:48
elders like churches that will remain nameless, or whatever thing is. But like, that's kind of
53:53
the thing where it starts to get a little bit like sticky, where that's where the Catholics
53:57
have a really good argument. They're like, oh, yeah. So scripture people, all you solo people,
54:02
all you reformation people, which church am I to go to if I convert to Protestantism?
54:06
Like which ones got it nailed? Right. It's like, there's not a great answer for us on our
54:10
end. But go ahead, Russ, you were going to the, so like the whole argument would let the Bible say
54:14
what it wants to say. I do think so Terry says that, but he follows it up to with and let it be what
54:20
it wants to be. Because the idea there too is, yes, you can say, well, that's what the scripture
54:25
says, but there's times that the scripture says something, but we are making it be something in
54:30
that moment that it's really not trying to be. It's, it's, it has a character in that moment that
54:36
we're trying to, or we're adding a character into that moment. And it is just saying something,
54:41
but that scripture may be a part of something that we just need to accept. Okay, that's something
54:45
that dives a little bit deeper. And if we read over here and we, we see how all this plays out
54:50
versus, there's a, my problem with that is there's a lot of scripture that a lot of other religions
54:56
use against Christians that if you just say, well, just let the scripture, that's what it says.
55:00
Okay. Well, we don't use that. We, we don't reference or, or disreference the context anywhere else.
55:08
So we can't really do that with ourselves and just pull stuff out and be like, this is what it says.
55:11
Although I do agree, most time we do need to just let it say what it wants to say and be what it
55:16
wants to be. And then maybe marinate on, on that. Let it say what it says. Let it be what it wants
55:22
to be similar to like when people break down what, what is, you know, I am what I am. What does that
55:27
even mean? No, it's more like I be what I be, which just doesn't sound good in English.
55:31
But you have to take the context into account. You have to take the audience into the account.
55:37
Hey, is this descriptive or prescriptive? Because again, a lot of people, if they like it, it's,
55:41
you know, prescriptive, if they don't like it, it's descriptive. Yeah, you got to be very, very careful.
55:45
Part of it being what it wants to be. I mean, the context is, is taking that in town. It is
55:51
what it is. He is talking to who he is talking to. That's the part of the, let it be what it,
55:55
what it wants to be as well. Well, let's talk, please, let's talk about a quick, a quick example
56:00
that I think wraps this up. And we're going to skip a little bit to Romans 1, 9. It says,
56:04
at the very beginning, it says, for God is my witness. And some of the things that I read here is,
56:08
that seems like a vowel, right? And in James 5, a vowel or an oath. And in James 5, 12, it says,
56:15
"Above all my brethren, do not swear either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath,
56:20
but let your yes be yes and your no be no." Yeah. And so when I read that, I was like, man,
56:24
that seems like it's in contrast. You know, that doesn't seem, okay, I'm reading Romans 1, 9,
56:28
and it starts off with a vowel or an oath that Paul is saying, but then here in James 5, 12,
56:32
it tells me don't do that. Please reconcile these two things. It says something similar to Matthew 5,
56:36
34, 37. So, so, so you can't, to your point, what we're talking about in underneath, so that some,
56:43
don't understand, we're talking about Calvinism versus Armenianism was the discussion that we
56:46
were having today. And the Bible says what it says. Well, that's kind of, I do agree, I understand,
56:51
I read these words, but it's not always that simple as my argument. You can't just read this one verse
56:56
and be like, well, unconditional election period in the story. Why are we even talking about this?
57:01
My issue, my issue, anytime somebody says, well, the Bible says what it says and uses that as an
57:06
argument, then I would like to, I would like for you to explain why transubstantiation is not a thing,
57:14
because it seems pretty clear in John that Jesus is telling us to eat of his flesh and drink of his
57:22
blood. It's pretty, if so, if you're taking or you've said it before, why do we have both our eyes?
57:28
Yeah. Why haven't we talked about it? Well, I told people again, when you, when you get into
57:33
this discussion with someone that's like, the textor says what it says, and it means what it means.
57:37
And this is, this typically goes with a young Earth older debate to where it's like, it says
57:42
days, enough of this debate. It says days, it is 24 hour days. If the Bible means what it means,
57:48
and that's what it says. And I was like, so Jesus is a vine. He's literally a vine, John 15.
57:53
Like, oh, he's literally a door. Where did not he is a door? Is it ochre metal? Like, and so,
57:58
but then I like, no, no, no, that's, that's a difference in language. I was like, oh, so are we
58:01
admitting that there are categories that are not to be described in the same way was Solomon
58:06
literally describing to deer on the front of his wife. Like, you know, like, again, that's when
58:12
you, there are different categories. I don't know why that popped. I was wondering the same thing.
58:17
I was like, you just had that way. Let's go back to WF and that chambered.
58:21
Damn. All right. We're coming back. No, but that that's literally the point to where it's like,
58:27
that's why I love the way JT English put it whenever he was on my, my show months ago.
58:31
A lot of people know stories from the Bible, but they don't reckon with the story of the Bible.
58:37
So they're not reading Isaiah through a lens of the gospel. They're not reading revelation
58:43
through a lens of the gospel. They're not, so they're not considering and reckoning with,
58:48
hey, what is this story in Nehemiah, right? Which I express how much I love the book Nehemiah.
58:53
How does this relate to the ultimate story, which is the gospel, right? And again, if you don't approach
59:00
scripture reading in that way, then it does become problematic, because then you will get
59:04
these bumper sticker verses that become, this is my life verse. And it's like, your life verse is
59:10
misapplied. That's rough, right? Of all the verses, you pick the one that doesn't actually
59:14
mean anything to you. What's the one that always gets brought up in Sunday school class is the one
59:18
that says, you know, I have the plans I've made for you to prosper you and like the very next verse
59:26
is that I will crush you under my head. It was like, you should have kept reading. Yeah. Well,
59:32
and again, to quote Kyle, I think from us, I can do all things through Christ through,
59:35
strengthen me. No, you can't. I bet you can't. No, you definitely can't do not get up under that
59:40
bench press with a thousand pounds on it. It's not going to work out for you. Well, well, guys,
59:44
you know, we covered a tremendous amount of ground as it pertains to getting to know the people at
59:49
this table and the things that they would have rather not come out into the public. But hey,
59:53
Jake, here's the, here's the thing. No one listens to the show. It's not big. Like we don't have
59:57
anybody. No one's going to bring this up to you in public. Like they're definitely not going to,
1:00:00
but we put, we put our hands in. And so we're all in November, Oklahoma City,
1:00:06
Paycom Center, guys, you heard it here first. If you want to maybe meet some of your favorite
1:00:10
forging tablers or something like that, we will be there ringside. Oh, man. I don't know.
1:00:15
Hell in the cell side cage. That's about as close to a group pinky promise. I can't,
1:00:25
I can't hit the stop button. We're going to be. It's not happening. I don't let vicious and
1:00:33
delicious happen. Oh my gosh. Get in here. Get in here. Come on. We're pink in. Let's connect
1:00:37
the pink. I said that as a joke that that's how bad the first thing was. And then we actually
1:00:45
just did a pinky promise right over that. Hey, has there ever been, dude, we should have saved
1:00:51
that quadruple pinky promise for pride months, maybe for a pride month, 2026. We can bring that
1:00:56
background. But guys, we are going to have to leave it there. So before that you go, we are
1:00:59
going to do a quick resilience boost and don't rely for mission is equipping men to push back
1:01:02
darkness with con to that for just spiritual and mental and physical resilience. Just a reminder,
1:01:06
we're affiliated with crossway. We love that publisher. They have a crossway forging table
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starter set. It's got a Bible on there, a book, a Romans scripture journal, which is exactly what
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1:01:19
like this with the guys in the foxhole in your life, make sure that you go to crossway and get
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all of those at a discount. Guys, everyone always asks, well, how do I get the discount? We'll go
1:01:26
to the show notes. Check out the show notes for basically any forging table episode for last year
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and a half or two years and you will have it all in there. Also, log us the best and most powerful
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Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
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which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
1:02:30
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:02:36
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:03:06
and I'll see you in the next video. Bye.