[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table. Well, the mission of Undaunted Live is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. We're going out of order. That's Browning, that's Dan, and Matt Chandler. This is your last one here on this batch. So, thank you very much for being here with the crew, guys. It's been a ton of fun. And you know, the last the last recording we had a little bit of fun, right? So, uh we we got out the the game Discernment from Christians Like. So, another shout out to you guys. Again, no affiliation whatsoever. There's no promo code, but it's a great game. Go and support uh companies that at least pretend to be Christians. I don't even know if they're Christians. They could be pagans. Who the heck knows? But while we were doing this and while, you know, Matt, you and I, we we fought hard, but you know, it was bottom of the ninth inning. We brought in our reliever and he just got tanked. And uh yeah, Dan hit a walk-off home run uh to take it with a few grains of sand left in the hourglass. >> But I just can't leave it there. >> I knew this was I knew it. You didn't know anything cuz I'm about to swerve you, son. You think I'm about to say, "Oh, round two. Let's do this one." No, >> that's not >> Oh, another game. >> This is why we're still in. >> Do y'all remember Speak Out? >> Oh my gosh. >> Never played it. >> Speak out. Shout out to Speak Out with Hasbro. >> I'm going to need a towel or something. >> So, we have these dental things that you put in your mouth and it keeps your mouth open. >> And then there's going to be cards that you read. >> Is that Is that a dental dam? Is that what they're called? dams or something. Not the same. Definitely not the same thing. How dare. >> All right. >> So, we got our little 30 second timer again. And so, basically, you put this thing in there and then you take the card. We're going to do the red side. And I have to just say, all I have to do is say these words. It says, "Maniac Mike trains vultures." >> Of course, >> maniac Mike trains vultures. But when you have one of these uh things in your mouth here, let's see. Let's get one that's adult-sized. And everyone will get their own. I would hope. >> So these are these are uncommon phrases. Here you go. >> So all I have to say, >> oh wow, >> is Maniac Knike trains vultures. >> Maniac Mike trains vultures. >> Easy. Next time [ __ ] [ __ ] >> I'm sorry. What you say? Give me that. Give me that first word again. And why do you sound like you're on helium, bro? How are you putting that in your mouth? >> Haha. Hot. There's no there's no way. There is no way. >> All right. It's shrimp popping popcorn is what I got. Right. >> So, uh I just think we just got a hint as to what this is going to look like. So, Matt, it's me and you again. We're starting out, but I'm going first. So, you're keeping the time, Dan. >> Hey, this could be one zero. >> Just blue and red. Is that hard? >> So, I think one side's harder. So, let's see which is harder. So, the red side on this one says maniac Mike trains vultures. Blue says, "Kind neighbor makes me weep." Which side do we want to do? Blue or red? Let's go red. >> Whole line. All right, we're going red. >> So, they're on blue. And so, I'm just going to lift it up. >> Blue is easier. >> And we just got to get it. We You just got to be in sync with me right now. I'm going to move them up. >> I'm Justin Timberlake. You're JC Shaz. We're doing this thing. Okay. >> I don't like that. >> Those are Well, in sync. Get it. >> We can be by Okay, here we go. >> All right. Let me get Let me get situated here. >> Hold on. You got to burn that top one because he can read. They're both red. Yeah, we're doing the red side. All right. >> Yeah, he he can't read it. >> Calm down. >> Sorry. I mean, win everything. >> That's a big deal. >> Daddy said, >> you said just a big deal. >> The leatherman wishes for luck. >> Okay, start again. >> The leather man. >> The leather man. >> The leather man wishes her luck. >> Let's Let's start. Somebody with wealth. >> The >> the >> leather man. >> Leather weatherman. >> This is wishes her love. >> The weatherman. >> This is heresy. >> What a crafty hair. >> What a crafty what? >> Yeah. What a crafty hair. Oh my god. >> I got nothing. >> [inaudible]. >> Oh yeah. No way. Fiber. >> Velvet is free on Fridays. >> Velvet is free on Fridays. >> Wait, how many passes do you time? How many passes do you get? >> Infinite passes. I just made up the rules. We got one. A commanding lead of one to nothing. >> Oh, >> the Fighting Dan boys are down. You are down but not out. Here you go. >> I love how it's like it's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying. You're like, >> "Yeah, if you say it harder, it definitely works." All right, here we go. All right, Dan. So, >> yeah. Goes Yeah, it goes a little happy face down. >> I think I need I need the kids one. This one won't fit. >> No, just do it. Just play by the rules. Play by the rules. >> You just ready? >> Thick. Berries are >> tick berries. >> Tick tick check >> chickberries. >> Chick berries >> berries >> berries. >> Pick berries. >> Carries. Carries. Dang it. >> Pick berries. Pick berries. >> Pick berries. Pick berries. Pick berries. >> Four. >> Four. What? >> For a lie. >> For a lie. For pick berries for >> pick berries for my llama >> for my mama. [Laughter] >> Monsters. >> Monsters >> eat >> eat >> eat >> monsters eat monsters all day long. I like that the answer so far has been say it harder. >> Just say it harder. >> The one he skipped is boine Betty's milk. >> Come on. >> No way. Instant one skips. >> It is one to one. Yeah, but you got to really give it a go. But yeah, we we can skip here. All right, so Chandler, here we go. We need you, buddy. >> All right. >> All right. We've always had a big mouth. >> Uh-huh. >> All right. Now, let's get paid. It's so It's so stupid. >> No, no, it's not. This is We're This is There's a segway. >> You're looking into my soul. >> Hey, here we're going to need you to record his uh his side of things after you turn that over. So, go ahead and hit record. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Let's go. Let's go. We got this. >> Yeah. >> Three. >> Playful. >> Playful >> nose. >> Playful nose. >> Playful nose buck. Play playful nose up. >> Playful nose. >> Uhhuh. >> Playful nose. >> Duck. >> Luck. Playful nose. Luck. >> Walk. Play. Playful nose. No. No. Playful nose. >> Oh, playful nose pop. >> That's true. That is true. >> Uh, playful nose bop. Got it. >> All right. No more gestures or play it out. >> Lobsters. >> Lobsters >> dance >> dance >> in >> in the >> the >> courtroom. >> courtroom. >> Let's go. Here we go. >> I >> I >> No. I >> My >> new >> my name >> new >> my new >> bicycle. >> My new bicycle. >> That's time. >> Hey, can we get two? Did we get two? Golly. >> We got two. >> Let's go. Let's go. All right. Browning. Here we go. Red. >> Oh, man. I'm a little slobber. >> Get a little slobber. >> You want to hear anything about me doing bop after you're like, heck, I'm married. >> All right. Bob, >> what are you going to do? >> Every single one of us is saying it harder. >> It's like you're acting like he's stupid. >> Why can't you just understand it? >> All right. So, what's the score? 3-1. 31. >> 31. >> 31. All right. Ready? Go. >> Okay. >> Clucking. >> Clucking >> and locking [Music] with the hens. >> Clucking and clucking. >> Clucking. >> Clucking and ducking. >> I I know what it's not >> with the hens. >> Clucking and >> Do your Do your consonants. clucking and >> and shucking. Clucking and bucking with the hands. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Good job. >> Wow. Thankfully. >> Please, please be my friend. >> Please be my friend. >> That's ridiculous. >> Easy. >> Swans with lead feet wander. >> Swans with lead feet wed. >> Webbed feet. Swans with webbed feet wander. >> Wonder. Yes, sir. >> Jeez. >> A new musical about the Queen of Water. A new musical about the about the green watermelon. >> The clean watermelon. >> Time. Almost got it. >> Freaking Rainman, dude. He's Rainman over there. >> What was it? >> The queen of watermelon. >> I thought it was green as well. So, all right. Is that four to three? >> Yeah. 43. >> Well, we did two rounds last week. >> So, I think I think we're back. All right. Come on. This This one three the other way, we would have ended with round one. >> No. No. No. We got to walk off. >> Get that one. Okay. >> Or do you want to go first this time? >> No, no, no, no. I think we we're in a good rhythm here. >> Just give me a second. Just give me a second. I got >> I just don't know why your voice goes like helium once you put that in your mouth. It doesn't make sense. I'm just trying not to drool on myself. >> I'm just a I'm just a >> See what I'm saying? Is anybody else hearing that? Is it just >> No, it's that's true. >> The acoustics of his lips, I guess, are important. >> One, two, three, go. >> Frank. >> Frank >> fancies. Fancies >> particular >> particular >> parties >> parties >> Wow, nice job. Flabbergasted. >> Flabbergasted. >> Wombats. >> Wombats. >> Fly. >> Fly. >> Overhead. >> Overhead. >> Rabbit. >> Rabbit. >> Bunnies. >> Bunnies. >> Running. >> Running. >> Rampit. >> Rampid. >> Princess. >> Princess. >> Fairy tales. >> Fairy tales. >> Roaring. >> Roar. >> Roaring. >> Roaring. A wacky walrus. A wacky walrus >> named >> named >> Barry. >> Barry. >> Yes. My brother >> what? >> My brother >> your brother >> is from >> from >> Mars. >> Mars. >> Wow. >> A conference. >> A conference. >> Stop. >> Hey, what was this? You didn't even give that a good go. >> Yeah, you skipped a good I couldn't read it. >> I skipped one pretty quick though, too. I thought that was Matt Chandler's problem. He can't read. >> All right. Well, we we prove that. All right. Here we go. We got one, by the way. Three, four, five. Let's freaking go. What is this count? >> We were up by one, so now we're up by six. >> They were up one. >> They were up one. >> It's eight. >> It's eight to four. >> Eight to four. >> What is it? >> Eight to four. >> What is it? >> We have >> 18 to four. >> We had eight. >> All right. Here we go. All right. You're on the red side. Are we ready? Browning. >> All righty. Go. >> Press >> Press >> the >> the >> hefty >> hefty >> red >> red >> button >> button. >> I'm getting it. Elephants >> Elephants >> make >> make >> pounds >> sounds >> pounds >> pounds >> of >> of >> foof >> shoes >> pounds of >> pounds of poof >> poop no >> okay >> yeah I would >> never >> never >> fear >> fear >> iron >> iron >> here >> I am Here. >> Iron. >> Iron. >> Here. >> Okay. >> Squeegee. >> Squeegee. >> Nonsense. >> Nonsense. >> Academy. >> What? >> Academy. >> Academy. >> You just said it harder and it worked. >> It's >> It's >> better. >> Better >> to >> to >> puke. Puke. >> Time. >> Dang it. >> Time. They got four. That means it's tied >> right here, Matt. It is tied going into the final round. >> It's on you. Oh boy. >> Oh. All right. There's your pile. >> I think I've got stretch marks. >> Yeah. Did y'all put chapst before this? >> Don't do this in winter time. >> All right. Some people are like, "I thought I was supposed to be reading the Bible." It's your last hour here. We're having a good time over here, Matt. Let's go. >> Let's go. >> Three, two, one, go. >> Very, >> barely, >> very, >> very >> little. >> Very little >> velociraptors. >> Very little velociraptors. >> Music. music >> makes >> makes >> grandma >> grandma >> oogie >> uh ugly ugly >> ugly >> boogie >> nifty >> nifty >> neanderthal >> neanderthal >> made >> made >> nightly >> nightly >> fires >> fires >> wow come on di >> what >> bubble >> what >> skip it >> he gave it a good try >> I >> I >> just >> just Need >> need >> run >> man one >> all >> moment >> uh >> of >> peace >> peace >> and >> and >> quiet >> quiet >> violent >> violent >> all of these >> walabbees >> hogwash >> hogwash >> wow these >> time >> time >> how many we get >> you got five I believe >> uh yeah you got five >> five you're 13 >> what was the one I couldn't even get the first word >> bubble butt for president >> bubbleut Dude, that's the best one. >> Bubble. I heard bubble bat. I heard >> I can feel the spit on my chest. >> All right, it all comes down to this. Mr. Walk it off in the bottom of the ninth over here. Dean, how you feeling? >> I don't feel good. >> Feel the pressure of this moment. >> I don't feel good. >> I don't feel good. >> I don't feel good. I feel like Eric is too committed to me getting the hard one. Like, >> yeah. >> Like, you know, put it down. If it's not, if it's a starts with bubble butt, shut it. >> All right. We'll go a good go. >> Okay. Go ahead. Go. Go. >> A duck build platypus. >> A duck build platypus >> walks into a bar. >> Walks into a >> bar. >> Bar. >> Yeah. >> Which is magical ringstick. >> Witch's magical fling stick. >> Witch's magical broomstick. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's a ridge is wrong. bits. >> Well, >> well, >> that >> that >> ridge >> ridge >> that bridge >> is burned >> is blown to bits. earned. >> Fossilized. >> Fossilized. >> Dino >> D >> bones. >> Dinosaur bones. >> Rome free. >> Rome free. >> Bragging rights. >> Bragging rights. >> For liars. For liars. >> For liars. >> Bears. >> For bears. >> My friends are famous. >> My friends are famous. >> Yeah. >> Time. >> Time. Woo! What did I get? >> I think you got five. >> What does that mean? >> One, two, three, four, five, six. >> No, you didn't get six. >> All right. Okay. >> So, we're tied. >> Yeah, we're tied. >> Sudden death. >> You know what I think? >> Oh, boy. >> Because we mentioned this at lunch. >> Technically, you and Browning won discernment. You did. >> But you and I each had seven. You had seven correct and I had seven correct. >> Okay. >> So, I think the tiebreaker needs to be him to you. However many you get, Matt to me, however many I get of discernment. Kicking it old school. All right. We'll toss these in the bag. I probably won't wash them. >> And we'll just do this again. >> How many times have you played this? >> Uh, real quick. >> Bacteria can't live for years. You know, supposedly uh science, right? Okay. Well, now I'm all a sudden feeling the pressure. But since you won the last one, you get to go first. >> Oh. >> Oh, we get to bat last >> because you were you had the pressure last time. Now I'm going to have the pressure of discernment. >> Okay. >> All right. So, here we go. Back to discernment while I put all the other stuff away. Here, we got we got to take a second to uh uh Yep. We got to take a second to let that go through. >> Play the Jeopardy music. Okay. There's that browning. You're Let me just check and make sure it's not. >> I was hoping >> one of the ones that we had already done. Okay. So, I think we should be good. All right. Give me a second. Give me a second. Give me a second. All right. All right. I will keep the count. >> This is for all the marbles, man. This is where you prove whether or not you are a superior man. >> Oh, I love marbles. >> Okay. >> What a weird response to that question. Yeah. Why don't you just show them? Yeah. Why don't you just show them what you're about to say? Three, two, one, go. Sonoff Shalom. Shaov Solomon. Oh. Uh, Songs of Solomon. >> Good job. >> Vermination. >> Vermin. >> Can we pass? >> What's one pass? >> Vermin. Okay. Okay. Okay. Pass it. >> Uh, Gourd Hannah. Guess of Gene. >> Good job. >> Share. He hut hover ho hire. Share he hut hovire. Share he hut to fire. >> I've given you the hint. Elijah rode this to heaven. >> Cherry to fire. >> Yep. >> Great. >> Campic rush. Campic rush. Campic rush. >> This is >> This is not fair. >> Campai crush. C campai crush. Camper crush. >> Camper crush. So close. >> Camper crush. Camper crush >> time. It was so close. >> Camp crush. >> What is camp crush? >> It's when you're at youth camp and you >> Oh, you have a camp crush. That's why. >> How did you not get that? Canuck. >> That's brutal. >> I I thought it was I thought it was like a can of [ __ ] It was on your cup earlier. >> All right, we got three. >> Oh man, that's not going to do it. >> This was difficult. >> Firm foundation. >> Got to hydrate. Did you get firm foundation? >> No. No. No. No, they passed it. >> Did not pass it. Okay, one pass, >> one hit. >> One pass, one hit. >> Four to win. Four to win. Here we go. >> One, two, three, go. >> Sword of desperate. Sword of the spirit. >> Of course. Full thime is history. Uh, full time is history. Uh, full th in history. For this time in history, hint. >> Vocational kingdom work. >> Full-time ministry. Tag gosh pools. Tag gosh pulls the the gospels. Element tough salvation. Element of salvation. Element of salvation. Elements of salvation. Element tough salvation. Something. Uh, >> come on. Timer. >> Uh, skip it. Helmet of salvation. Crap. All elen gizus. All elen gizus. >> Oh, I know it. >> Ow. Alo King Jesus. Alo Alaken Jesus. >> I know it. Go stand. >> A I I got nothing. >> Oh, hell king Jesus. >> And yeah, >> helmet of salvation. >> Are we tied again? >> We tied. So now we got to switch. >> You're going to have to like arm wrestle. >> It's on y'all. No, >> because should fight. >> Why would you bring up arm wrestling, bro? Matt Matt suggested we fight. >> Just a quick two-minute round. Just do just you want >> just like like beginner jiu-jitsu like 60 minutes you can start in guard. >> 60 seconds. >> 60 seconds you can start in guard. >> That is still way too long. >> All right. Well, we'll start with 60 seconds and see. >> All right, guys. It's on y'all. >> Which side? >> Right. You're you're pulling from going on you. All right. >> All right. Dang timer. Ready? Go. >> Oh, sorry. Go. To elf tribe suffice real to elf tribe 12 tribe 12 tribes of Israel is tarich hungrer tich t to hungr tungrer tk titch hungrer tichkungrer I can't say I don't know dude pass >> furry whale Oh, that's too easy. But not furry whale. F for f for e for >> the opposite of predestination. >> For he furry well. >> What? >> The opposite of predestination. >> I am stuck. Furry whale. >> Obviously >> it's furry whale. >> This is my theological for the hell. For hell hell. for for for the hell >> and he can't give it >> for Jesus. >> Free will help me. Free will. >> Help me. >> What was the one we passed on? >> The rich young ruler. Tar cruer. >> That's not good right there. Not supposed to be there, >> dude. >> All right. We got one. We got to get two here. >> I'm sorry. >> Two. Oh, I'm reading it. I'm showing it to you, Matt. Come on. >> Of all to this point. >> Okay. So, we need three to win. >> Hey, I need that spirit. I need that spirit of diminishment to be out. I cast it out and then >> I wish you would have cast in the helmet of salvation earlier. >> Yeah, I wasn't even close. I feel like you you were saying it to me without saying >> I should have said it with more vigor and then y'all would have just gave it to me. All right, here we just got to get to >> Let's go right off. >> Go. >> Tap her tabernacle. >> Let's get it. >> Nut hangon Honduras son. Not hang noon Honduras hun >> phrase from the book of Ecclesiastes. >> Nothing new under the sun. >> We're just we're just riding off into the sunset now. Let's go, boys. >> Hisser a dentist half. Hisser a dentist halfer. Uh >> skip. >> Yeah, skip it. >> His rod and his staff. >> Wait, Inc. Faux mayor rich waiting for marriage. Finance Yelpies unis. >> Oh, finance Yelpies univerities. Financial universities. No, >> financial peace university. >> That was so close. >> That was freaking hilarious. >> That is so good, >> man. Man, I thought I was going to get that one. >> You got three, which means we won by two, baby. We are back in the money. >> Let's go. All right. Well, that may not have been nearly as fun for all of y'all as it was for us, but goodness gracious. >> Anybody else's mouth hurt a little bit? >> I don't know what stretch marks. >> I don't know from what. I'll get you some cocoa butter, boot, don't you worry. Don't you worry. You will be fine. >> I'd rather suffer. I think >> you don't want some cocoa butter. >> Hand me cocoa butter. >> That's fine. >> Now we're in. Hey, what do you guys think? Should we uh read some of the Bible? We should >> uh I think we should go and dig in. So, uh in the last three hours, right? So, that would be the last three weeks of all this. We got from Romans 1:1 through Romans 1:4. But I actually did have a question uh from the beginning. So, >> and we didn't finish four. >> We didn't technically finish four. So, we're going to be starting in in 14 this time and then moving on from there. But you mentioned towards something towards the end of the episode, Matt, about uh we were talking about JT English's book where a lot of people know the stories of the Bible, but not the story of the B Bible. And you mentioned how, you know, um the Bible is God breathed and it says in a scripture and this has been a sticking point that I feel like if whenever I try to attack someone's arguments, I don't like to straw man. I like to steal man. What is the best version of your argument? I'm going to put that up and then I'm going to try to, you know, take advantage of it from there. And there's one that I haven't really gotten a satisfactory answer to yet. So, I'm wondering what what your answer to this would be because someone will quote something from the Bible to a non-believer and the person will be like, "Well, what's your proof for that?" Well, the Bible is the word of God. Well, what's your proof for that? The Well, the Bible says, >> "Yeah." >> And so, if I were to write a book that says I'm right all the time, right? And that's on page 74. and you read something from page 17 and you're like, "Wait, the the moon's not made of cheese." And I'm like, "Well, yeah, it is." Well, what's your evidence behind that? And I just go, "Well, go to the page where it says I'm right." >> Yeah. >> And then so it just becomes this circular argument of why is this thing true? Because the thing says it's true. Well, no, no, there's got to be a truth outside of the thing to prove that the thing is true. And I feel like people take the lazy philosophical approach and they're just like, well, no, the the word of God is just in a different category and I don't have to provide an apologetic, you know, to a particular person who's non-elect maybe and prove to them like I can't argue them into the kingdom anyway. And I'm like, that's it's just kind of lazy to me to to think, oh, well, the Bible says it, so it's it's just plain. And it's just like, well, not really at the end of the day. Okay. So, I'm just wondering how you would say that cuz I've to this day I I struggle with like, okay, I I believe it's God breathed. But if I'm explaining that to somebody that is just hearing about the Bible for the first time and they're just like, "Wait, so it's just true?" >> Yeah. >> So, what would you say? >> Well, I think this is where Wes Huff, I think, has been super helpful in his apologetic about the Bible. Uh, the Bible is unique among all other books. There's a historicity there that can be checked. Uh, this is what convinced Lewis. Lewis thought, hey, this doesn't read like a fairy tale. It's very specific. He's on the left side of the boat. He's like, Beaolf doesn't read that way. That this is a difference. So, you've got historicity. You've got archaeology. And and then you got the sheer volume of unchanged manuscripts. And then we've got thousands of years of testing of the word of God. Does obedience to the word of God produce human flourishing? Well, the evidence is yes. And and does contrary ideologies create chaos and pain? Yes. Uh and so I will appeal to historicity. It it's been historically tested. These are real people, real places. Like Jesus isn't a myth. There are multiple Roman historians that talk about the ministry of Jesus. Josephus being a Jewish one, but Saludus was uh there were multiple Roman >> blingy the >> That's right. that that mentioned Jesus and what he did and the resurrection. Yeah. >> And and then you've got the sheer volume of manuscripts. So like people who would doubt the the scriptures but fully embrace um like the the read the the writings of Caesar Augustus or um uh Aristotle like the the Plato. >> That's right. All of those. Well, Plato. Yeah. Right. They were like, "Oh, but we've got maybe half or one, two maybe manuscripts of those wars, >> and we have hundreds and hundreds of documents that show it's been unchanged like the the scroll of Isaiah that was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It It's almost verbatim what's in your Bible right now. So, it's it's not been tweaked and played with. It's been historically tested and found true uh archaeologically proven true uh like repeatedly. And this is what's fun for me when the news kind of stumbles onto some scientific fact that we've known from the Bible. Like it hit me about eight or nine years ago. I saw this uh article. I I like health wellness stuff. I could get lost in that stuff if I'm not careful. But there was this huge study that found out, man, if you take one day a week and you just turn everything off and and you just man feast and fellowship and play that if you'll do that, >> like so much of your anxiety, depression, and fear vanish. And I'm like, yeah, it's called the Sabbath. Yeah. >> Yeah. We we've known that for four or 5,000 years at this point, but it's like science caught up to the Bible. And and if you're paying attention, this happens over and over again with archaeological discoveries where, well, where is this? Well, oh, we just unearthed it right here exactly in the dimensions and the buildout that the Bible tells us. And so, I'm always going to historic reliability uh volume of manuscript and the historic testing of of the law of God on man for human flourishing. Well, and then with archaeology catching up, uh, so obviously, you know, a lot has been made where people are like, "Yeah, David may have been a real person, but his kingdom wasn't that big." And all those types of things, but then you see these archaeological discoveries where it has his name, King David, on there, >> which I guess just ultimately begs the question, the question, >> are we David? >> I was waiting for it, but you missed the one. So, >> yeah, I think David is a great example for us. >> But Goliath is my problems, right? Like my problems in life. That's is that how that goes >> usually. But you got to have five stones because Goliath might have you might have four brothers. You might have 99 problems. >> Yeah. Well, hopefully you didn't have that many brothers. But so I Well, every Degan wanted me to ask, you know, if you were David. Sorry to disappoint. But um verse four, uh you said we weren't quite done with that, so we got a little bit more meat on the bone there. So let's nod off. Let's go. >> I'm reading again. >> Yeah, just read verse four and then we'll we'll start our discussion there. and was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. >> All right. Well, let's start there. You said there was a little more. >> Yeah. Well, so this phrase spirit of holiness, this is the only place in the New Testament that that phrase is used, spirit of holiness, because you pointed out in the last episode that S is capitalized. So, we're clearly talking about the Holy Spirit here. But if you're not careful, you might get into some janky heresy here by by going, "Okay, he's God once he's resurrected from the dead." Because what you see here is he was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead Jesus Christ our Lord. So a mistake could be oh okay Jesus is a good man and he becomes the Messiah postresurrection. But that's not what's happening in this passage. You're you're looking at um I I love like what was it? Tallaladega nights when they're praying uh for their Taco Bell or whatever it was six pound 4 ounce baby Jesus. That was his favorite baby Jesus. >> But the Jesus we see postresurrection is not meek and mild Jesus anymore. He he has now ascended to the right hand of the father. And when he comes back he is not coming back as sweet sixb 8 o sweet sweet baby Jesus. He's coming sword out of his mouth, robe dipped in blood, tattoo on his thigh, the alpha and the omega, the reigning victor over every principality and power in this present darkness. And this line here of declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead is about that transformation of the bill has been paid in full. The victory is won. Principalities and powers have been conquered by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And now Jesus reigns victoriously and supremely over every power and institution and person and thing in the universe. He reigns on high now. >> Very good. Guys, anything else on four? >> No. >> No. Let's pop on from there. >> Um, let's just finish out Paul's greeting. We'll see if we can make it through uh the next three verses. So, Dean, how about you go ahead and read five, six, and seven. >> Through whom we have received grace and apostilhip to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. to all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints. Grace to you and peace from our from God our father and the Lord Jesus Christ. So to to go back to verse 5 through whom we have received grace and apostilhip to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations. So obedience of faith here um in the same sentence we we have the push and pull of grace by faith but then there should be works that follow but the obedience flows out of faith. It does not confer salvation >> but evidence of a true saving grace and belief in pushuo in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is works. This is where I think most people get stuck. Regardless, this is one of those things that is regardless of denomination, regardless of background, regardless of age, regardless of any characteristic of yourself. This is where people get stuck. They're way they're like, "Oh, am I doing this because I'm saved or am I doing this because I want to be saved?" >> Yeah. >> Certain traditions teach that salvation can be lost, you know, just as easily as as it's gained. Whereas other traditions are like, "No." You know, as Joby says, it's like, "Wait, can can Jesus lose one of his sheep? Can Jesus a shepherd lose one of his sheep?" like that's silly, that's dumb. And so, but this is that internal wrestle, this internal dichotomy that most of us feel when we're doing anything that even smacks of religiosity, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. I I think it's always going to come back to posture of heart more than it is outward action. And and so let's just take reading the scriptures. Um, I can get up every morning and read the scriptures to check a box to feel good about my own righteousness. Right? So, but remember what we said like like Galatians tells me I have to repent of that righteousness. Reading the Bible doesn't make me holy. It it just doesn't. But if the posture of my heart is God has he loves me, he's adopted me by the blood of Jesus to be a son. He wants to speak to me. The primary way he speaks to me is through his word. Waking up in the morning, even if it's with discipline and going, I I want to hear from you today. I want to learn about you. I want to, like David said in Psalm 27, I want to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord. Show me your glory. Show me your grace. I I I would love to experience your presence uh in my little office this morning, but if not, just show me something of your beauty and grace as I read your word. That's a very different heart posture than um moral righteousness that would tell me reading the Bible pleases God. Because Jesus says to the Pharisees, you study the scriptures in vain because you think in them you have life yet you refuse to come to me to whom those scriptures testify. I think that's John 6:50 something. But so reading the Bible doesn't make me righteous. Approaching the word of God to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord to have my heart transformed in ways he wants to transform me to invite the sweetness of conviction into my soul to be made more like Jesus. That heart posture is what God honors. It shows right relatedness or righteousness that I want to be conformed into your image. I want to know you. I want to love you more deeply. Show me your beauty. Show me your grace. Show me your justice. Show me your reveal yourself. I'm hungry to know you. I love you. It it becomes more like a date than it does a discipline, right? I want to encounter you. I want to learn something about you. That heart posture is very different than let me load the bullets of my um my own arrogance so that at lunch today I can quote a scripture so you think I'm godly. th those are two different things. Or let me ease my conscience by doing the things I think the Lord wants me to do for him so that I can please him because you're already forgetting uh Romans 5, which I'm sure you'll be at in 2027 that way, >> right? Where Romans 5 is is just like, you know, somebody might die for a good man, but God revealed his love to you this that while you were at your worst, Christ died for you. And then he goes on to say, "And if he did that when you were enemies," and I love this phrase, "How much more than now that you are sons?" And so anybody who has children knows this, like knows the effect. There's nothing more primal in the universe than your love for your children. Nothing. And I've joked before, it's not really a joke. The first time I held Audrey in my arms, I felt in me a new kind of love I had never experienced in my life. And I felt in me a capacity for violence that I didn't like if anybody tried to harm this little girl, I was willing to have a prison ministry, right? Anybody who has children feels that, right? And and Audrey has not always made the right decisions and she has not always walked in the way that I wanted and she has not and I can tell you right now through all that we've been through, man. I I cherish that little girl. I still want what's best for that little girl. I still will take it. Like I just went and saw Creed and Three Doors Down at Dickiy's Arena just to be with her, >> just to be with her. And and so that part of what's part of what's in view here I is am I approaching Jesus through the disciplines he's given me to approach him so that I can have Jesus and I can experience and see his beauty and grace and be conformed into his image? or am I trying to earn what he's already given me which is sunship and being his beloved and being delighted in. So it's the posture of heart to me is the key that unlocks the dilemma. And sometimes the best posture you can have and you see this all over the Psalms is I I don't I don't feel like help give me affection. I feel dry. I feel far from you. I know you haven't moved. I've moved. Bring me back into your presence, Lord. Show me your glory, new and fresh. It's a desire to step into what's already mine, which is this love relationship with Jesus Christ. That's different than I'm going to do this with a great deal of discipline because if I can be disciplined enough, it's that crazy cycle that I've watched so many Christians go through because they don't fully understand the gospel. When they're checking all the boxes, they feel like God's really pleased with them. And when they don't check one of those boxes, here's what they do. And here's why I think you can spot somebody who doesn't get the gospel. They're not doing as well as they want to do. So, they run from the Lord. >> Well, just like with with your daughter, like you know, you set up a situation where she could come to you and if you return to the father, he'll be there with arms wide open. >> Oh, beautiful segue. Beautiful segue. Ah, throw his pin. >> Go get your pin, loser. All right. >> Were you ready? You weren't You didn't You don't I think that one hit you right upside the head. You okay? >> It did. Wow. >> I thought it immediately when you said, "How was Creed, by the way, now that they're back?" >> So, here's what I would tell you. Um, the guy for Three Doors Down, he literally shared the gospel with the entire arena, >> dude. And he's dying of cancer right now. >> Like, that's what I heard. I'm telling you, the whole thing like, didn't like life, I mean, sin, death, resurrection, he had the whole arena say back to him, I am, I am the one, the one Jesus loves. >> He had everybody say it back to him. That dude just preached the gospel. Now Scott's just freaking weird, dude. I think he was trying to do it. He was wearing a tank top that was like an extra small. Looked like it was choking the life out of him. And he was like, I was in the ocean and and I was like, I don't know what the hell this guy's talking about. Right. He's sweaty and he had obviously worked out before he walked out on stage. Not that there's anything wrong with that joke. A little bit of a struggle. >> Not that there's anything wrong with that, Joe. You can do some curls before you walk out. I get it. I get it. >> Um, but they were great. It was a It was a total like old man concert. So I I had a great comfy chair and I just kind drank it in. Now Audrey wasn't Audrey was trying to whip our whole section into a frenzy and no one bit. Everyone just sat there and let her go, "Come on, guys." Scream at everybody. But uh they were all right, man. I was glad I did. I didn't go for Creed. Went for Time with Odd. >> Okay, very good. Well, hey, I know you guys are still licking your wounds over there, but uh you guys feel free to hop in on this discussion whenever you want to. >> I thought about Romans 7. You know, I just thinking about through relationships, um, one of the triggers for me is when someone attacks what I know to be true inside in my heart. That's hard for me to for someone to attack that because because I know what I feel or at least I think I know what I feel. Uh, and I know there's tension there. Just like in Romans 7, you know, that Paul says he wants to do these these things, but he can't he doesn't find himself doing them and the things that he knows he needs to do, he doesn't do. That is not not me trying to create an excuse for any behavior. It's just the reality of what happens internally. But I but I was writing down when you were talking just words that came to mind of how I would evaluate my own heart at any given time. And you know I thought about the words duty and delight. There are times where out of duty I just do these things. They're disciplines. I know I need to do them. I got to teach my kids. My kids maybe may not understand how to read the Bible, how to pray. uh but but they need to learn that and then they need to grow as they understand the gospel more, understand Jesus more, grow into that and to do that because they want that connection um with the Lord. Uh one of the verses that we pray before we do any kind of Bible study is uh is Psalms 119:18, open my eyes, I may see the wondrous things from your law. Just that understanding that I have to come approach this with a a sense of humility that I don't know. I don't know the answers. I don't know what I'm doing. I need your word. I need your law to open and reveal itself to me so that I can do your will. Um, and so we start there, but I I just wrote down that humility, enjoyment, which you you mentioned. I want to be able to enjoy God and not just again like I'm the same way, Kyle. I I want to check things off. I was in the navigator ministry min ministry for years and discipled and very much very much appreciate that ministry. There was a point where it felt legalistic or like I couldn't break past the check mark thing. I was sitting across from my mentor and it just felt like I just needed to have my checks on the boxes, you know, checked off so I could, you know, appeared to have done well for the week. Um, and so there was a little bit of a I needed to break from that a little bit so that I could learn what actually means to be loved by the Savior and to love him back naturally, organically. Um, one of the things I thought was really interesting when I was younger is people had this they had this longing, this hope for Christ's return. this hope for heaven um you know come Lord Jesus come always felt weird to me for a while um when I was younger I think partly because selfishly I wanted to live life and I wanted I wanted to get married I want to have kids and all that sort of thing I was like I don't I don't want Jesus to come back yet um as I've gotten older just that understanding of like man life is so messy I I do I want Jesus to come back Lord come now um because life is is hard and it's not necessary to remove me from that but it's to restore those things that he's promised. Um, but you know, I think about that and then uh well that's I guess that's what I wrote down. Let's see what else I put there. Yeah, I can't even read what I wrote there. But there's certain aspects of that that when I evaluate my heart that that's what that's what comes to mind. Um and and it es and flows I feel like but but I feel like deep down I want to do the right thing. I want to serve God. I want to understand my calling. Do you want to fulfill those things to the utmost ability through the Holy Spirit uh to glorify him? >> Uh for me when I in verse 5 when it says you know through whom we have received grace you know I think grace is an increasingly hard concept for our world >> to really understand. And I think part of that is is that we keep we keep creating new definitions for the word grace. You know, there I I looked it up in the Oxford dictionary has four. >> Yeah. >> Uh, you know, and the Christian or the the free unmmerited favor of God is the third one. >> Yeah. >> Like, well, that's a problem. Yeah. >> Like, if we understand grace from the from, you know, as given and delivered to us through Christ Jesus death and resurrection as the third definition of that word. That That's a pretty good picture of where we are as a world, right? And do you do you So, I get sucked into these Instagram reels of the dudes who stroll up to like the house that's the worst lawn on the, you know, they do a time and they do a time lapse and man, I just watch it and they'll be like, "See my full video." It's and I'm like, "Yes, I want to see the full video. I'm gonna watch this." But, but in the conversation, I saw one yesterday. the walks up to this dude's house and the dude opens the door and he like of course the guy's like what you know the guy starts by saying hey I noticed you need your lawn mowed and you can see the guy at the door ready to be like no >> because you don't anticipate that the end of that sentence is going to be free >> right and so it gets to the point and then he he hits it and says and I'm going to do it all for free and the guy was like, "Well, if you're going to do it for free, you know, and then you watch this this thing roll out." Well, that I mean, that's the exact same thing that that is available to us. It is free. It is unearned, right? Like if if I work at a job, they owe me money, right? There is a debt that is incurred by me giving you my time. That's not grace. It's not grace by the employer to write me my check. There's no grace in that. there. It's a business transaction. There is no earning. There's none. There's no action. There's no reading the Bible. There's no there's no participating in podcast. There's no earning. If there was earning, it would not be grace. >> Well, and then Christ died for nothing. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> And so the the fact that like I think that word and and like we've said before, you know, if you if you don't understand grace, grace is going to be hard. Grace appears 155 times in the New Testament. A hundred of those are mentioned by Paul. A quarter of those are in Romans, right? Like grace is a grace is a big thing. So if you don't know Jesus and haven't accepted, don't run to the dictionary to find out what grace is. Dig into Romans. >> Yeah. Well, and that's what I think you mentioned on our first our first go around um you know about a month ago Martin Luther, you know, understanding what grace through faith is and it's because he reads Romans 1. >> Yep. >> Right. Romans 1:16 and 17. Like that's where Martin Luther's like yes that Martin Luther. It's like oh something just got unlocked as as a gift. And I, you know, I I I've struggled to bring this up this late into this episode, but you know, when you get into verse, I believe it's verse six, you who are called, uh, another word for that would be the elect. >> And this is where we get into a really sticky area. And it's not people think it's Calvinism versus Armenianism. It's not really that. It's people that are some tulip people. There's some points of Calvinism, and then there's it's either five or zero people. And there's the part here where it's like, wait, did Jesus die for everybody or did just Jesus die for the ones that, you know, his father chose from before time and memoriam? Is it that we have free will, but God has complete sovereignty? Or is it both? And there's that kind of push and pull and tug there of like, okay, he gets he gets all the credit, but if if we go to hell, we get all the blame. Like, and again, I don't we don't care about fair. like none of that really comes into the discussion. >> But it's just such a hard thing, Matt. And I've we've had plenty of discussions here at this table. I've watched hours long debates on this subject matter with people arguing both sides, and I come away feeling the exact same way I felt coming in, which is confused and worried. And you know, the worry always comes down to someone else that I love, primarily, not me. Yeah. >> Because like, you know, there are people in my life that I've shared the gospel with that have not put their faith in Christ yet. you know, they believe in God and they think that's good enough, right? I've lived a pretty good life. You know, I've never killed nobody and so that's enough, right? >> And then it's like, well, well, no. And then if a hyper Calvinist would just be like, well, that person's maybe elected. They're just not. >> Yeah. >> It's like, well, that that doesn't help me when it comes to my boys, James and Eli, five and three, I'm like, "Okay, Jesus, you might be ready to come back, but can we give them some time?" Yeah. Because let's say Calvinists are wrong and they do have to put their faith in Christ and they do have to get baptized or they don't get in the club, you know, as a father, like thinking of the eternal damnation of my my kids, that just doesn't really sit well. And so, I just haven't come to a place where I'm just like, yes, I I I know what the text says, but how does that extrapolate out to living an an actual life? >> Yeah. Well, I'd love to answer that question more than the first. Yeah. >> Um, what I know is Isaiah tells me the arms of the Lord are not too short to save. What I see in the scripture I is people who if Vegas were putting odds on it like Saul of Tarsus becoming a Christian, you know, it's going to be a billion to one odds. And and yet he does. And and so what I see clearly in the scripture is all these other words o around it like belonging to Jesus, loved by God, called to be saints and and what I understand my my role practically to be is to herald the good news to anyone with ears, believe that God can save and contend for their souls and trust God. And and I've got I've got a theological bent on these things, but I don't feel near as dogmatic as I once was. What I do know is no one's too far gone. No one's heart's too hardened. No one's too blind. No one's too deaf. No one's too The God of this age has blinded the minds of those who are perishing for the spirit to not break through. And so with my kids, my whole understanding has been my whole parenting style is I want to put as much kindling around their heart as possible, but I ain't got no matches. I ain't got no matches. So I am with the guys that I train with, who I'm sharing the gospel with. All I can do is put all the kindling around them that I can. I can preach the good news. I can show the love of Christ. I can pray and contend for their souls. But somewhere in there, the Holy Spirit has to catch that on fire. Um because Luther is going to say in his bondage of the will, you do have free will. And with that free will, you have chosen what Paul describes in the latter half of this chapter. You have chosen creation over the creator. You have chosen that you are smarter than God. The way Romans would say that is you believe the truth or you believe the lie over the truth of God and you have failed to acknowledge him. That's universal over all of us. Luther's going to say that's the bondage of the will. You have used your will to choose. You do not want God. So we need something supernatural to happen for belief to be given. And that's where my role, your role, your role, your role is to tell everyone with ears about the beauty of Christ. And we just know not everyone's going to say yes to that. That's I if salvation belongs to our God which is what the book says then I can't do anything other than so that whole idea like it emboldens my evangelism because I think that like guys who hate Jesus right now are are going to be worshiping him at the village in the next two years simply because faithful Christians are praying and sharing the gospel with showing hospitality to walking alongside sharing the good news in different ways and through different means and and the salvation that occurs ultimately belongs to the Lord. What's dead does not choose life, but God does a work in them. And and what I want to highlight because I think it's so important is I I try to say this all the time and it feels like a lot of times it just doesn't seem to land like there is nothing in our lives that Jesus wants distance from. Nothing. There is nothing he wants distance from. We will in our shame, in our guilt, in our own failures, we will desire the distance because we feel shame. We feel what we are dirty. We feel unclean. I know that's synonymous. So, we withdraw. The good news of the Bible is God with us though. God keeps moving towards. He keeps moving towards. He keeps moving towards. And and when you and I are put in office buildings and neighborhoods and jiu-jitsu gyms and CrossFit gyms and we're sitting in the stands with moms and dads whose kids play on our baseball team, right? That's the mission of God to herald. There is nothing in your life that Jesus wants distance from you. You are I mean these words are powerful. One, you received grace. So you you received it. You are passive. He hands it to you and and then that you are called to belong to Jesus. Like do you believe that? Do you believe you belong to him? So like my my go-to prayer over and over and most consistent prayer I pray is I want you. I want you, Lord. I want to be in you. I want you. I I want to know you. I don't want whatever is in my life that's a hindrance to me gazing upon your beauty seeking you in the temp I want David's prayer in Psalm 127. One thing I ask and all that I seek is that I might dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple. The promises in this text is I can belong to Jesus. I can be given grace and I can be counted and turned into a saint over the long period of time through the process of sanctification. So when it comes to that miracle of being transferred out of the domain of darkness and into the kingdom of his beloved son, I got no power and and neither does anyone else. Salvation belongs to our God. What that makes me is earnest in prayer contending for like man when I pray over my kids' rooms when they're not home, I'm a frothy Pentecostal man. I mean I am like hollering out to them and I'm reminding the Lord what the Lord said. you have said this, this is your word. I am praying to you. Right? In the Welsh revival, there were these men called the mighty men of Bar. And they were just dudes that contended in prayer all over that that place. And they would they would weep as they walked down the street crying out the scriptures back to God. This is what Moses does to God in Exodus. Whoa, whoa. These are your people. You have said you made the promise. You entered the covenant. And God, right, God relented. And and so I want to contend in prayer for the souls of my children, for the souls of my friends, for the souls of, you know, back in the day, my dad, the the souls of that. I want to contend for it. You said, you said you desire that none should perish, but all should come to repentance. I'm asking you since you said you desire that that you would unleash that desire on my lost friend, on my lost children, on my lost father. I'm asking you. You said your arms aren't too short to save. This man despises you and blames you for all the hardship in his life. He is absolutely guilty of Romans 1:28, just like I was, and you snatched me up. Will you do that for him? And that's that that's the kind of prayer that moves the heart of God. And all of that starts to get really mysterious to me. And so this is going to be argued about until Jesus comes home. Pragmatically speaking, the promise is to belong. The promise is Jesus doesn't want distance from you. I want to herald that to everyone with ears. And I've just got to trust that God's going to light that kindling. and and I'm going to lay as much of it down as I can so when he lights it, it explodes. >> Man, that is a blistering uh way to get here to the end of the episode. And so I don't know if y'all had anything else to say, but I would uh I would shut your traps, you know, uh at this point because of what just happened. So don't ruin the moment. Don't ruin the moment. Okay. But uh man, it has been uh just just as we wrap, man, it has been an absolute pleasure to to study with you all. Uh cuz I know the three of us uh who were here, you know, we were in, you know, somewhat communication kind of seeing where everyone was at and none of us really knew how this was going to go. But the more we studied, the more we realized, I mean, your prediction was Romans 1:1 through Romans 1:4. We technically made it to Romans 1:7, but we are certainly not through uh Romans 1:7. So guys, come back here next week where we're going to be starting, you know, 167ish. But Matt, just thank you again for spending all the time up here for for your ministry and for what you've done for so many folks and just for, you know, hanging out with the crew last night, getting a little bit of jiu-jitsu in and all that, but anything else you want to get off your chest before we get you out of here? >> No, just thank you for what you're doing, bro. It's I I'm I've got a group of guys I meet with on Thursday night. They're all daily bladers now. They're all kind of dialing in. And so, thank you for like guys that I deeply love who are growing in their faith right now. You're playing a huge role in that. So, it's fun for me now that your ministry is actually overlapping in all these spaces in mine. Uh, and so it's not uncommon for them to like just throw a quote out from the Daily Blade on our group text thread or, you know, something you said and this or that. And so, it's been fun. It feels like there's overlap where last year when I was here, there wasn't a lot of that overlap. So, that's been fun for me. >> It's kind of like uh, you know, the vin diagrams that Kla Harris is such a big fan of. You know, it's like our ministries are just we have all these areas of overlap. Is that the first Kla Harris? Shout out. Shout out Kla Harris. This episode was dedicated to you, sister. I know you don't got anything going on right now. >> Kyla Harris. Well guys, as exciting as this has all been, we're going to have to leave it there, but uh we are going to do a quick resilience boost before we get out of here. At Undaunted Life Mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Don't forget the Crossway forging table starter set. You can get five books for 50% off. Check it out in the show notes. Also, the Logos Bible software, which I was looking some stuff up on that we'll uh be getting into next week, but is incredibly powerful Bible software. Don't use it at full price. Use it as a discount at a discount. And also remember, we are a donation based ministry. So, if you're wondering how we can pull off stuff like this, how there's electricity running through all these things to where we can pull all this off. It's because we have guys like you on a onetime basis or monthly hopping in donating to us so that we can continue to equip men around the globe to push back darkness. We would hope we would hope that we're doing enough to serve all of you where you're at, but help us serve others. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive fivestar review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undantton.life. That's info@unton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]