[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. >> Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaulted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Ryan, that's Matt, that's Howard. And guys, if you hear some extra sniffles on this particular podcast, three out of the four of us, I'll let you guess which one did not partake. For whatever reason, we thought it would be a fantastic idea uh before the or before this recording to go and hit the smelling salts again. And I got to tell you, top 10 mistake that I've ever made in my entire life. Whatever I decided to do, this was the fresh batch. I shook that thing up and then opened it and just put it right under my nose. >> The first time I did it, >> it was it was easily the worst hit from a like a smelling song. By the way, guys, it's not a drug or anything else like that, but it was cuz it's like ammonia and salt and water or whatever, but it was so pungent and it I mean it literally I'm surprised I didn't drop it. Like that's how hard it freaking punched me in my soul whenever I did that just a second ago. And then you two dork society, hey, let's go ahead and do that. That looked like a great time. >> Okay, the next time I come back, >> I'm bringing cocktail sauce. Hottest cocktail sauce. >> No way. Not doing it. No way. >> You better bring some shrimps. >> The shrimp and shrimp cocktail sauce. >> I'll do that. That all day long. I'm originally from Indiana and so in Indianapolis, St. Elmo's >> St. Elmo is known for their cocktail sauce and it will light you light your fire. Horseradish horseradish. >> Oh, that's gross. Horseradish worst. >> That's the worst part of wasabi. Ah, it's the worst. >> That's pretty terrible. It's pretty awful. Yeah. I don't really want I don't do the whole the whole like super spicy thing like these guys that are putting like you know >> ghost reaper extract like on their chips and all that. Like I don't want any part of that. I remember I was in Arkansas. This was like 20 years ago. Don't even remember why I was in Arkansas, but we're in this like area that's kind of got a bunch of different shops and I go in this like hot sauce shop or whatever and I'm going in there and they they have a guy they've got like some tortilla chips and they'll put a little dab of stuff on there and let you try it. And so I tried something that was pretty hot. And >> for whatever reason, when I get something that's really hot, I'll start like hiccuping uncontrollably. Anybody out there and like any doctors out there know what the heck that is? I don't really know what's going on. So I start hiccuping, hiccuping, hiccuping. And so the guy sees that I'm struggling. And he like he really quick he grabs his cracker and he puts some stuff on. He goes, "Here, have some of this." And I'm thinking it's going to cool it off. It was candied jalapenos. And I was just like, "So I'm more on fire just with a different flavor." But he thought giving me something lower on the Scoville, you know, scale or something like that was going to chill me out. And no, it just like lit me on fire in a different direction, >> man. So, he gave you something that was not as hot, >> but still hot. And just like we might think that we're going to something that's less debased than what we're doing. >> What what we actually need is Christ. And if we're not if we're not following after Christ, we're not clothed in his righteousness, we're going to continue to be given up to our demased mind, which is what Paul's about to talk about. Should we get into that? >> I I don't follow. What are you saying? What do you >> That was the longest transition. >> Really? >> That was like I feel like you were trying to come up with it on the >> Yeah, that was not my best. I apologize. >> Take another sip of it. >> I'm still laughing at Kyle getting the hiccups cuz his uterus got overflowing with spiciness. >> Wait, what? Wait, what are you saying? You're a girl, man. You can't take the spiciness. Come on. You say cuz you're >> Do not make me wrap my sweaty hairy legs around your stupid head and choke you unconscious, >> you big dupe. What? No. Get away from me. >> This is fantastic. >> I don't want any part of that. I don't want any part of that. What in the world? Shots fired out of nowhere. Catching strays over here for no reason. What are you doing? >> I'm I'm still upset from last week. Don't be a liar. That was not a stray. That was definitely Yeah. I apologize to you on air to the entire world and now you're getting all you're getting all like you're getting your revenge. >> Is revenge horn coming back? >> Revenge horn's coming out back and I'm going into my debased mind and I I think I get >> Don't try to do it. You're you're the worst at transitions and >> when he's not here, I'm the one that does it. >> No, no one does it out of respect for Matt. No one even tries to do the transitions, right? because you of all of us, you're the closest to actually transitioning, it seems like. So, yeah, suck it, Ryan. How about that? Uh, speaking of sucking it, uh, let's go ahead and get in, uh, to Romans here. Uh, I think that we talked about sucking it last week, didn't we? >> What you Okay, hyperventilation is the thing. We got to be careful. Hey, we're going to go ahead and get into verses 28 through 31. So, Howard, you are the most professional person out of all of us, especially right now. How about you go go ahead and read 28 through31 for us. >> And since they did didn't did did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a debase mind to do what ought not be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, uh covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, uh malice. Uh they gossip, slander. Sorry, my computer's about to die. uh haters of God, insult uh insolent, hotty, boastful, and uh inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithful faithless heartless ruthless, though they know it. >> Uh so we we'll get to 32 here, uh probably in the latter half, but I mean, my gosh, you need a description of total depravity, right? So if if you're looking for for something and again we've talked about this a lot over the last several weeks. Paul is not giving anyone any cover here. >> So it's like just look at your own life guys, right? Not just the guys at this table, all you guys listening to this right now. Uh any of this sound familiar? Any of this sound like something maybe you've done or in the process of doing right now? Again, I don't think anybody is is saved from this. And I talked about this last week. I love this quote from the Crossway ESV expository commentary. God withdraws the restraint of a mind steered by common grace. Grace that causes many people to live generally moral and decent lives. And so again, he started with his description of homosexuality and then he gets into all these other areas and it's like, okay, you do you. That's essentially what what he's saying. And it's kind of, you know, I forget the CS Lewis quote that's kind of in this vein. Go ahead. >> Uh, hell is not locked from the outside. >> Yeah. >> Hell is locked from the inside, >> right? hell's locked from the inside and it's like and it's it's like you know okay God's like okay your will be done >> like I will go ahead and give you up to this >> and so again when you look at people you know especially when people talk about the LGBTQ community or things like that when you start hearing the stories especially of people that have renounced that as a lifestyle people that went down the trans route or the homosexual route or something like that and then they get saved or whatever when you go back to that >> there it wasn't just that it was all these other very loud in very uh like evil sins that they were taking part in a lot of substance abuse, uh physical abuse, all kinds of other different things, self harm. And it's because of where they were starting, right? And it was the depravity that they leaned into and they were so rejecting of God. God's like, "Okay, fine. Ready, go." Like there's no common grace for you in these areas anymore. >> And then amazing when you give sin a foothold, right? It's going to take everything it can. And that's, you know, I think you had uh who'd you have on on the podcast a couple weeks ago talking about take every thought captive, right? >> Yeah. Kyle Idleman was on several months ago about his book where he's talking about 2 Corinthians 10:5. >> Yeah. And I just think that it goes back to that piece of they didn't take every thought captive. And just like for us, we've done >> and they made it accountable to nobody. >> Yep. So, >> well, it's kind of what what we've been talking about on on different weeks is when you're putting your faith in your intellect or you're putting your faith in your accomplishments or in in you know your I guess um influence or or something like that. It's like to what authority are you appealing to as it pertains to your morality? So, when when someone says, "Hey, I'm not that bad a guy. I've never murdered anybody." Mhm. >> And so it's like, well, by what authority or by what matrix of decision making are you separating yourself away from the people that are too depraved, right? >> Christ talks about that when he says when he talks about the heart of a human or heart of a person. He talks about like you may not have murdered somebody, but you've hated your brother >> in your heart. You may have not committed the act of adultery, but you lusted after a woman. And so when I look at this stuff and I look at all everything that he's gone over of envy, murder, strife, uh insolent, hotty, boastful, um heartless, ruthless, like I've done at least one or two of those things, if not more. Well, even the even the church lady who would like laugh and, you know, chastise you for saying that she is a depraved sinner outside of Christ, he kind of alludes to to that and cuts that argument off at its knees when he talks about disobedience to parents. Like what an interesting one to throw in there. Like he's got all these capital. Yeah. No, I know. But in today we look at that and go, >> "Yeah, that's exactly for that." But that's a ser and God God takes that serious. That's a serious sin. That's a serious thing to do. So >> I think that's the beauty and the power of the gospel that we looked at in 16 and 17 a couple weeks back is that we've all been guilty of one of these things. >> But our eyes have been open to the power of the gospel. and that my I am an unrighteous person on my own, but without with Christ I am righteous. So like Paul's just laying out like like Kyle says >> like everybody's getting like >> these aren't strays. These aren't stray bullets. Everybody's getting shot at because we've all done one or two or three or four of these things. Yeah. >> You know, but the thing is is that we see Christ and we see that we need to change >> and we follow that and we become the salt and the light rather than dying to our own sin. >> Yeah. as like RC Sproul would say in the final analysis, it really comes down to two choices. You're either in Christ or you're in Adam. And at the day of judgment, there's only two options. You're either going to the right or to the left. You're either going >> away from God or you're going to be clothed in righteousness and you're you're you're going to spend eternity with the father. But in that instance, the person who lied to his parents once is viewed the same outside of Christ as the dude who murdered a hundred people. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I know there's levels and everybody wants to put sins in categories and and Paul talks about you know the you know these sins that are abominable to God and and and the Old Testament talks about that too. But like the end of the day there's only two options. And even the person who has sinned the least ever in the history of the world is viewed the same as Hitler. >> Yeah. Well that's the thing. I mean, there might be uh consequences, earthly consequences to our actions, but when it comes to us standing before the throne, we're not clothed in righteous righteousness unless we have Jesus. And if we don't have him, we're no different than the >> than the than Hitler or we're no different than the guy who lied to his parents but still didn't know Christ. >> That's a tough pill to swallow. >> I don't think a lot of people do swallow the pill. >> That's why they reject they keep pushing it down because they don't want that. They >> they don't want to face that. No, you don't want to face your own depravity because you look at yourself and you say there's no way >> I'm not that bad. >> I'm as bad as Hitler. And I think you as a as a Christ follower and somebody who's trying to minister to someone like that and I've had an experience like that like similarly actually Hitler was used like you have to you have to come at it with some love. Like you can't say well you you you are the same as Hitler. Like that's not a probably a great place to start. I think you can get them there, but you nobody wants to admit that in the grand scheme of things, I am a depraved sinner. But the flip side of that is the other pill they don't want to swallow is, and I don't think there's any evidence of this in Hitler's life or any anything there, but if if Hitler genuinely repented >> and believed on Christ for his salvation, he would spend eternity with God. And I think that's another hard hard thing to to wrestle with as someone who like you look Hitler. >> I actually I actually was teaching middle school at our church last week and we were going over John 3:16 and you know for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. But nobody ever looks at 17 or 18. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him not is not condemned but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the son of God. So God has condemned people and like I was trying to bring out you know >> like hey there's some things here that are hard for people to grasp because they view God as love. >> You know we've we've created an idol out of love of out of our own love and then we forget that there's more to God's attributes than just love. There's justice. There's mercy. There's a lot of things but we've idolized the love part. So it doesn't make sense for him to condemn or send people to hell. You know, I think RC Sproul said it best. He said he said God doesn't send sin to hell. He sends people to hell. It's like it's just sinners. Yeah. Sinners to hell. >> You know, it's like it's inevitable. It's going to happen. And I was like trying to show them like the opposites of that. You know, like there's God of love who, you know, it's weird to feel that he's condemned somebody and sending them to hell. But then there's also the people on the other side who's like, I've done so many good things. I've never heard anybody, but somebody like I said, "Who's the worst person you can think about in in the world that you think would not be going to heaven?" One kid threw out Stalin, one kid threw out Joe Biden. I was like I was like, "All right, I was like, "Yeah, this Oklahoma." And I was like, "All right." And then somebody threw out Hitler. I was like, "Let's let's go with Hitler." I go, "This is going to be really weird." cuz he even ra Miss Miss Lady Lady Horn was like so the kids are going to go there and be like hey mom dad Hitler might be in heaven and I was like I hope they didn't go with that but I just said I was like if there was a chance that Hitler repented of all the stuff that he did and asked Christ into his heart like he will be in heaven as sick as that sounds but that's the beauty of the gospel. It doesn't matter what depravity you've had. Your depravity is the same as the next person in the eyes of God. But do you take on the you take on Christ and do you take on the righteousness of Christ by believing in him? >> When you were talking about love that kind of this whole set of verses there is a mercy and a love a lovingness of the father like that he gave them up. There's not an immediate wrath. There's not an immediate death because that's I mean that's what >> justice demands like when you sin your penalty is death. >> Yep. in like that is your that is your just do. So there is a mercy and it's interesting that like nowhere in the Bible does it say that God is love love justice justice justice holy yeah yeah it's holy holy holy that like the holiness of God by RC Sproul >> one of the greatest influencing books I've ever read. If you've never read the holiness of God, read it. It really deals with some tough uh passages in the Old Testament. But that is a mercy in that he is giving giving them up and giving us up for a time. >> It's a mercy for right now, but like once >> they perish. >> And hell isn't like, you know, probably this firing burning damnation. It's an absence of God. So you're going to see that beauty and that holiness of God is and you've missed out on it. >> Yeah. And that's going to be the most I could I would find that to be the most soul crushing thing ever >> is to have majesty and hope and everything in front of me, but I gave it up for earthly desires because I wanted that feeling now. >> And so it's like there's mercy in that because he knows what you're missing out on. >> And I think it's important here going back to verse 28, God gave them up to a debased mind. So if if your mind is debased, like your thoughts are just flatout impure. It's almost like you can't have a pure thought >> if you're giving someone over to a debased mind. >> And I think about these man on the street interviews or, you know, these happen, you know, maybe it's a Charlie Kirk video or you have these, you know, people man, they do these man on the street things. They start asking people about their opinions. I've seen it with the, you know, uh, anti-abortion folks that are out there, um, abolitionists rising and things like that. And then when these people it's it's like the the well of their mind has been poisoned because they can't even accidentally make a coherent argument >> that defends their position. It's all sloganering. It's all they have >> because there is no foundation to their belief system. There's not an an authority that they can appeal to that is higher than the authority of God or the authority of scripture. And so they're appealing to some professor or some expert or some study or just something that they saw on a bumper sticker or a t-shirt. And so that again the the debaseed mind leads to them being jealous, to them being lustful, to them having these these fleshly desires and things like that. And so the debaseed mind is not a neutral thing. And I think it is imperative for us to point out when people are not just being intellectually dishonest, but it's like, hey, you're you're thinking like the thoughts that are coming into your head are not the thoughts of God. When Victor Marx was on the show, he was like, look, the the the thoughts that come into your head, they they don't come from a whole bunch of different places. They either come from God, Satan, or you. >> MacArthur's notation on debased is his note says this. This translates a Greek word that means not passing the test. It was often used to describe useless, worthless metals discarded because they contained too much impurity. God has tested people's minds and found them worthless and useless. >> Whoa. Brutal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, even look at this. So again, the categories here uh when you get into verse 30 and you get into the different uh things that are talked about inventors of evil. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So 200 years ago, nobody was thinking about, hey, I can actually change my gender, right? >> Yeah. >> There's been crossdressing. Like there's reference in the Bible to people that are, you know, dressing affeminately, men dressing effeminatinely, and things like that, and how that's bad and shouldn't be done >> and and all those different things. But then specifically, the people that have invented trans surgeries, have invented the sterilizing drugs that are used in these types of things. >> They literally invented evil out of nowhere. >> Abortion's always been a thing. There have been people trying to kill their babies and, you know, were fine with siring children but not raising them. But then the people that are inventing the processes and the new technologies for how we are to murder children in the womb more efficiently, right? so that the these clinics can make even more money. Like these are inventors of e of evil. So, and guys, if you ever think that you've heard it all, >> just just wait until the news cycle turns around again and you'll hear about people that seem to invent more ways to be evil and do horrible, terrible, satanic things. >> I just think of the the passage John 10:10, the thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy, and I have come that you may have life and have it to the fullest. He's he's stealing away our life. And you know, it just it just baffles me that the amount of energy we give to if the I was talking to somebody about this the other day. If you had the people that use the the time and energy and effort to do evil, you know, how much how much could we have accomplished as a society and a world if that could have been used for good, >> right? Yeah, but the but they bought into this lie of the of the enemy and it's just it's sad. >> I think it just all strings down to sexual immorality. I mean, abortion leads to sexual immorality. Why are why if if you're sexual immorality leads to abortion? >> Yeah. Sexual immorality leads to abortion. If you're a married couple and you're pregnant, you're more than likely not going to have an abortion. But if you're out there having sex with, you know, everyone that you can, you're more than likely going to lead to an abortion. Look at pornography. Pornography gets progressively worse. Now it's basically sex trafficking or, you know, some debased thing going on. And the research shows like I don't maybe it was Bundy or some of the um >> Bundy said or his his more sadistics stuff started because of pornography. Yeah. And then I read an article in Tulsa uh newspaper about um child pornography and how men started out with pornography, but it just kept not filling the void that they were trying to fill and they kept moving to worse and worse stuff to where you're looking at children or you're watching rape porn or something like that. It's just like look at the debased minds and like the people that put this stuff together >> and it's glorified. Like we glorify like I can't even go on like Yahoo or something like that without hearing about somebody on Only Fans, you know? Like look at I think there was a article about some young girl who was on TikTok or whatever and she like had this countdown of when she turned 18 to join Only Fans. And so what you have is you have a bunch of grown men, disgusting men who are want to like and we're we glorify this. She made a million dollars in less than 24 hours on her 18th birthday. And she was wearing these shirts like as a as a minor, which which said like porn star and training and things like that. And so um cuz apparently this girl had some sort of online uh following her personality. She had been like a online personality since she was like 10 or 11 years old or whatever. And so people are following this girl and then the closer she got to being of legal age. These men were literally like pre-bying into this girl's like Only Fans account so that they could get access to this girl doing god knows what. And but there's also there's something incredibly concerning and nefarious about the not just the ubiquity of porn because obviously you can get it anywhere like you can get it for free. You can get it on social media. You could not be s seeking out porn and it'll find you like a heat-seeking missile. >> Oh yeah. >> But I was watching >> um I was watching the PFL pro fighters league on ESPN. >> One of the sponsors so you know inside they they don't have an octagon. They have just a cage. But one of the sponsors that's on one of the the vertical beams or whatever is Only Fans. This is MMA on ESPN owned by ABC Disney. Wow. And one of the sponsors is a porn site. And currently in the country, I believe 49 of the 50 states um uh gosh u women that sell themselves for sex. Uh gosh, good goodness gracious. >> Yeah. Prostitution is illegal in 49 of 50 states currently in the union. >> But if you put it behind a payw wall and make it through an app, it's legal. >> Yeah. like, okay, so you want to talk about inventors of evil or things like that. And and Ryan, you mentioned trafficking earlier, whenever I've talked to people that have been in the pornography industry, um that I've had on the show, you know, when you hear from these gals that again, while they're acting or whatever, they're acting like they are enjoying whatever is happening to them in that moment. Aside from the fact a lot of these women are drugged up on purpose, they're they're vomiting in between scenes at, you know, the things that are being done to them. But when you hear from Britney Deamora that she had a manager, otherwise known as a pimp, who was offscreen, never seen, but she had to make and give him $2,000 a day. >> Now, if she shot a scene for some big porn studio or something like that, she might make $10,000 that day, but there was no transfer or carryover of the balance to the next day. The next day starts, she owes her pimp $2,000. >> And if she's short that day, what do you think happens to her? And there were a lot of girls that she knew about that were around that were on sets that they worked with, you know, all kinds of different things. And then they just disappeared >> because some of these women, maybe they start refusing to to do these things. Uh maybe they're not making the amount of money, maybe they age out >> and then they disappear somehow, right? and the depravity of of that type of thing because Britney was talking about how on the days when she didn't have a scene, she would have to go to this uh kind of black blacklisted website and have to do, you know, $25 to $50, you know, sexual acts to work her way to making $2,000 for the day. >> And people would line up to do it with their favorite porn star, right? Oh, I get to pay 50 bucks and do this, that, or the other thing. It's just, man, super >> Go ahead. Ted Bundy, this is who you're talking about? Yeah. >> He he famously said in a prison interview with a psychologist, I think it was a psychologist that interviewed him, >> "If you want to stop guys like me, >> get rid of pornography." >> Yeah. >> And it a lot of because it it doesn't it doesn't just stop. Like you were saying earlier, Ryan, it all it progresses and you you more and more Yeah. and worse and worse. They said the porn industry is bigger than the NFL, NBA, all sports leagues >> combined. >> Combined >> because we're depraved. >> Yeah. >> And that's the thing is like and we affirm it. >> And it's just like look at look at like we we trade we affirm unnatural things. >> And people use that argument of affirmation for even more existential uh um debase things like minor attracted people. >> Yeah. you know, when are they gonna finally be like, "Well, I'm born this way." >> Well, they're already doing it. They're already >> They're already doing it. >> And like they want to be called minor attracted people, not pedophiles, right? >> And so it's like once we open up that door of debased affirmation, >> it's just going to keep going continuously. >> I just had I just had this thought like obviously abortion is a an epidemic. It is, you know, it's a it's a holocaust. Um, >> and I and I maybe I'm wrong, but it it doesn't seem like the church does a ton against pornography. I know Kyle's talked about pastors, they don't that's not something that they really touch. They don't touch that because most of them are using it. >> Yeah. And I think there's probably some evidence to like they it's a shameful thing to talk about >> because maybe they're doing it or maybe they they're they know someone who's doing it and they don't, you know, they don't want to step on toes. But I I find that kind of interesting that as as a the big body church, big C, capital C capital C church, we're not doing more and they should >> against pornography. >> They should. >> That'd be a good question to ask some Christian leaders in our community. >> That would be a good question to ask a pastor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, and Joby and I have talked about that as well because Joby, >> you know, as you said a bunch of times, >> what uh dislodges a lot of men from their ministry is monies and honeys, right? And so these hunts could be digital as well. So he has, you know, restrictions and things and guard rails that kind of keep him away from those types of sites and those types of uh activities and things like that. But yeah, I I think the main reason why a lot of churches don't make a big deal about it is for the same reason why people a pastor who's severely overweight is not going to make a big deal about slothfulness or like overindulgence in food and different things like that. It's like, well, of course you're not because that's a mirror at that point. You're going to have to point at yourself. >> And you know, again, there are things that we just don't think should be in a list like this. We already talked about, you know, disobedient to parents. That kind of sticks out like a sore thumb to this. >> It wouldn't to people a thousand years ago. That wouldn't have stuck out like a sore thumb at all. But in this kind of modern era, it's expected that we're going to be disrespectful of our parents. And so I I kind of feel like the modern church has accepted it's a a losers position. >> They see fighting against porn as a losing battle. >> All right. If I put my name to this thing and I really kind of come out, it's like super hard against pornography and how people shouldn't use it in any form and all that type of thing. Uh it's just kind of like, you know, what are we going to do? Like it's shooting a BB gun at a freight train. Like this isn't going to be that big of a deal. But the same thing happens in culture like Ober Bergfeld happens here what in 2015 >> and so now Christians and conservatives are like ah well it's settled law we we can't fight against it anymore like the degradation of the American uh family unit and the traditional family as it's called or all that it's just not really I guess we can't fight that battle anymore. It's like, man, am I glad people like in the fight after Roie Wade in the 70s didn't have that same idea. Like they batten it down the hatches and they're like, we got to go to battle for something like this. >> Did you have something? >> Um, I did, but then I forgot. >> I think I think I think I think we've I think again capital C church have kind of neutered ourselves. >> The Catholic Church is a good example of this uh specifically on the topic of of abortion, you know, like and it's not the same. It's a different category, but like you can a church can neuter itself um on morality because of the things that they do internally. And Ireland is is a perfect example on the issue of abortion. People looked at the Catholic Church like wait, you're >> you have no authority here. >> You're you're you're going to tell us that abortion is like you you guys you guys did kids. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You guys you guys have pedophiles in your church that you're that you're okay with that you cover up that you just move to a different parish and there's no punishment. So you this is running rampant. you're going to tell us we can't kill babies. >> So, I I think it's a really slippery slope to be on, but that's a perfect example of like how the church can neuter itself. But the other problem is is pragmatism. That's not bringing people in. They want to figure out what's going to We've already watered down the gospel to bring people in. Do you think not talking about certain subjects is going to keep more people coming in? Absolutely. So, they don't want to talk about it. I mean, honestly, like >> I hate to bring up JD again, but like it's just like, hey, the Bible only whispers about sexual immer, you know, homosexuality. And it's like it really doesn't. But he's not going to bring more people in if that's all he's going to Oh, go ahead. >> I was just going to say we don't want to talk about wrath in church. >> We don't sing we don't sing about wrath in church. Okay. We sing about grace and grace and grace and more grace, but we don't sing about wrath. We don't talk about the theology of that wrath. Well, if people had a little fear from some of these other things, then maybe there would be some change. But I don't. >> Yeah. >> What are we what are we being rescued from? Yeah. >> Like there's like what what what is this grace that you're talking about? What am I what am I even being saved from? >> That's what it came for me when someone's like, "Do you understand the gospel?" And I'm like, "Yeah, Jesus died on the cross for me." Why? >> Well, I don't know. I'm a good person. Like, I don't have any idea. No, I'm a depraved human being. Yeah. that looked at porn, that drank alcohol and got high and got drunk and did stupid things and objectified women and had revenge on people and cussed at people and did all this stuff. Like, I've done it all. And but God still in his infinite grace opened my eyes to not only my depravity, but what he did with his son on the cross. And that's what we forget. And I think like Paul's trying to show us what is unrighteous and what is righteous right here. But he's also showing us why we need Christ. >> Well, yeah. He's also he's also bringing the readers down. Like you need to be you need to be so low that like when I when I get to chapter 3 like okay >> let's talk about >> but there's the but like yes we are all depraved sinner but Christ. >> Yeah. >> Power of the gospel. >> Yeah. >> That's the thing I love that about I grew up in a small church and every Sunday we had communion. You came before the table, right? And you realized your sin. You know, how many times do we come before the Lord and realize our sin? >> Yeah. >> Okay. How many active Christians pray and ask for forgiveness every day? Right. When we go to church, do we we we we sing good songs and we feel good about them, but do we come out convicted? >> Yeah. Do we come before the table and think about his death on the cross and his costly death on the cross and then compare ourselves against that? I don't think we self-reflect enough of like I am I am unworthy. >> Well, you brought this up a little bit earlier. Uh I forget who said it a few weeks ago, but it's like you sing your heresies before you believe them or something. >> You sing your You sing your heresies before you believe them. >> Okay. So think about a lot of modern contemporary worship music that's being you know pumped out for the radio stations and who's you know majority 70% of the audience is female when you're singing about grace only right again I think it's a good point what am I receiving grace from what is the due penalty of my sin that's why again I know people aren't really into the the music that's why I'm into even lyrically Christian metal more than I am to what would be considered contemporary Christian music I don't like calling it worship music because then people think that everything outside of that category cannot be used as worship to the Lord, which is a category falsehood, right? It's a category error. >> But specifically, if you're singing the Psalms >> and a lot of the hymns, my goodness, not only are there parts, right? So, a male voice can be represented because there's multiple parts. You're not just trying to mimic uh somebody a female voice or a man hitting female notes. Like, you're actually singing your part. But my goodness, like not only are we talk singing about God as if he's like the creator god, a warrior god, all these these different things, but man, there's wrath, there's depravity, there's my >> uh you know, as the the Puritans would say, like this ability to like just look at oursel in this lowly way because if you think too highly of yourself, then you can't fully appreciate and understand the truth of the gospel. >> Oh, go ahead. >> What's the song? I surrender all. When I sing that, I think sometimes, have I really surrendered all? Well, what brings it up to me is like so we moved to from Oklahoma to Dallas and that was probably the best thing that ever happened to us because we got involved in a church that like really just poured the gospel out to us. And there was a a worship leader there. His name is Jason Waller. I think he's in Kansas now, but you can find a song on Spotify. It's called Yet I Sin. >> And I remember singing that in the congregation like as a as a worship song. And it's all about how I've sinned, how I've cursed your name. and just uh but how God's shown us grace and it's like it's coming to Christ as a sinner. It's coming to Christ as not this perfect human being because we're not. He is that's his righteousness that we get to clothe ourselves in by his grace and love. Yeah. Paul is Paul is taking us as the prodigal son into the muck and the mire of the pig's sty in in these verses like he's bringing us low in the readers of this letter. He's he's taken him down. Like you've you've gone away from God and now you're you're sitting there and I want you to sit in your own filth and I want you to sit and think man >> I would love to just go back and be a servant in my dad's house. >> And like that that that's kind of the picture that he's painting here is like I want you to feel what it's like to be the prodigal. And I think that's a beautiful picture that you show there because I can also as a believer see the other side now as the brother >> and see that he's like looking at his brother that's coming in from all this and like being like how dare you save him >> you know look he did all this stuff and we can do that as Christians sometimes >> you know but it's like no we need to rejoice when they see this depravity and they're coming to Christ just like >> we were once them. >> Yeah. The older brother is just as lost as the younger brother. So, so Jay Jay Risner, who's the um executive pastor at our church that we go to, he did a sermon on the prodical son a couple of years ago, and it was the first time I had ever considered the sinful uh posture of the older brother, cuz I always thought the older brother was right. Like, screw your dumb little brother. Let him go die with the pigs. Screw that dumb kid. But like, you know, it's like, no, the older brother was lost. Just as lost, but in a different a different way. And uh Jay also kind of helped me focus in on the last verse that we're going to cover today on this batch of recordings and that's verse 32. So Howard, go and read verse 32 of Romans 1, please. >> So I'm in NASBY again. Um >> [inaudible] it. Okay, we'll read it in English later. All right, come on, Ryan. Save us from the NASB. What's funny about that is our church does NASBY. We'll read it in both. So Howard, you go first and then I'll go ESV. >> Can I do the message? >> No, we're reading the Bible here. Sorry translation. >> I don't think the passion. >> Sorry. >> You know what? I'm going to pull up P just for that. I'm going to pull you pull up passion. >> I wouldn't be back. I'm pulling up. >> I wouldn't be surprised if the passion didn't have Romans translated at all. >> All right. So Howard is in the New American Standard Version. Then we'll go ESV. Then we'll go uh message and then we'll go passion. This is a disaster. >> Okay. Verse 32. And although they know the ordinances of God, that those who o practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them, but give approval to those who practice them. They like know perfectly well they're spitting in God's face, and they don't care. Worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst of things. >> That's That's the message. >> No, sorry. They hand out prizes to those who do the worst of things best. >> That's the message. >> 100, >> dude. What a disaster. >> Matt, you got the passion version over there. >> Although they are fully aware of God's laws and proper I'm very surprised here. uh proper order and knowing that those who do all of these things deserve to die, yet they still go headlong into darkness, encouraging others to do the same and applauding them when they do. Interesting. >> A little verbose, but not bad. >> Read the message again. >> And it's not as if they don't know better. They know perfectly well they're spitting in God's face and they don't care. Worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best. I think the passion is better. It's a million times better. >> Way better. >> I thought there was some slang Bible you were reading. >> Oh, dude. We got some slang Bibles. We got the GMZ Bible. Is that on biblegateway.com? But so here's the thing. So I was talking with Jay. So uh Jay Riser is going to be coming uh on a future recording for Romans and all that. And I told him we were about to get into Romans 1. And he's like, "Oh man, I'm sure you're going to hit verse 32 really hard." And I hadn't really uh you know dug too far into things. um quite at that moment cuz we were still a couple of months before recording and then whenever I started digging into verse 32 it was like oh >> because ultimately he's saying it's almost seemingly worse Paul is saying it is almost worse than the preceding verses. So in the preceding verses the people are actually doing the things that their debased mind is telling them to do. But then he's like, if you're sitting on the sidelines applauding those debaseed things, >> that's worse. >> Yep. >> So, you want to talk about giving no cover or no quarter to people? >> I'm not safe on the sidelines, >> dude. >> Can we say something? >> No. >> This is this is like kind of a I'm thankful for the translators and the the transcribers who added verses in chapters cuz what what a exclamation point to end chapter one with cuz you you know, you're plugging along, you're reading along. Oh, I'm good. I'm good. I don't do any of those. I don't do the things. >> Oh, >> you It's not even that you don't do them. You may not do them anymore, but now you know the truth. >> Yeah. >> And you know the truth and you're going to go ahead and be like, "Well, I'm It's Chip and Joanna Gains." >> Yeah. >> Chip and Joanna Gains. Like Kyle said it on a couple months podcast back. It's like you know the truth. You go to church. You go to that Antioch church and they they even spit out the truth and what marriage is. But because you you want to give approval to debaseed minds and that's what you're doing now. And you can sit there chip and be like, "Oh, hey, I'm just that you don't know about glove. You don't know about grace." It's like, you don't know about truth. >> Yeah. >> You can't talk about twisting. >> John MacArthur said it best. Uh and I I said this quote. He goes, >> "Uh, truth without love is just brutality, but love without truth is hypocrisy." >> And that's exactly what it is. It's like now you're dealing with hypocrisy in here. >> Yeah. >> Because you have you have these guys who are getting up there on stage and they're trying to take this pragmatic approach and they're trying to be pretend to be this loving person. They don't love them. They're just they're just props on their show so they can get ratings. Y, >> you know, but they but Chips loves his money so much he's going to be like, "Well, I'll just give it I I'll give into this." You know, and then how dare you call me out, bigot, you know? You don't know what love is. is like, "No, you don't know what love is either, buddy." >> And it's it's so problematic because the culture that is operating via a debased kind of hive mind, if you think of it that way, >> they're like that that's the Christian I like. Yeah. Right. The Christian that says sin is okay and we are going to highlight sinners in order to make money off of them. >> Because even the the whole thing of that show, Back to the Frontier and all that. Okay. So the whole point of that show was to take people and put them in an environment where they're living like people lived a couple hundred years ago, right? No running water, no electricity, like having to forage for things and farm and do all the different things. Oh, I'm sorry. 200 years ago were there gay dads that were commandeering twin boys from their mothers or from orphanages or from designer IVF processes where they were implanted into the rented uterus of a woman and grown in that womb and then stolen from her on the back end. >> I'm going to guess that. Yeah, I'm going to fact check. We can maybe go to AI and see if we can get some confirmation. But a couple hundred years ago, AI might say this. >> Yeah, that is something that would have never even been fathomable. And so it doesn't even comport with the point of the show. They were doing it to get an attab boy from culture. >> If you look at the gentile culture, you look at even Alexander, Alexander, who they would say was probably had homosexual sex, still married women, you know. >> Yeah. that they still married women even though they had this debauchery of sexuality like because that is what's considered normal and natural. That's how he's going to get an air is by sleeping with a woman, not by sleeping with some other dude. And so yeah, you're right. They're like you're trying to bring it back to the frontier. What frontier? I think the the evidence that Satan knows scripture really well um is is clear to me in this verse where um you know that the the new age, the new thought where you take Christianes and you kind of weave it in Christian language and you weave it into this debased thinking like Satan has his fingerprints all over that to where he's gotten a large part of the church and some whole denominations have have bought in hook, line, and sinker to this thought process of if I approve of these things or I'm okay with these things, I'm still being a loving Christian. And there's all this language that is very biblical and sounds true. And like I mean, the devil's just looking at like, yeah, >> but what Paul's saying right here is what is what does Christ say the two greatest commandments are? >> Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. If you love sin and you love what is unrighteous, what the Bible says is unrighteous, you do not love God. >> All right. Yeah. 100%. >> And you should love God and you should love your neighbor as yourself. But if you don't love God, you're not going to be able to love your neighbor. >> No. Yeah. You've got to start at the first one. You can't love your neighbor without loving God. >> That's what they're doing. They're not loving God. I don't think we take the first part of that as >> we don't take it seriously. >> No. I mean, again, whole denominations, they they say, "What did Jesus say the greatest commandment was?" and they cut it. They say, "What was the greatest commandment?" And they just go to love your neighbor as yourself. And they completely like the Jews dismiss Isaiah 53. They're like, "I don't even want to read that part of the Bible. It's just love your neighbor as yourself." >> Well, I think the same thing as well would be what is love and what is loving? >> Maybe don't hurt me. >> And so, okay, >> very nice, nicely done. >> Uh, we don't have to keep going with it. But the the interesting thing about that is like, okay, >> if somebody is doing something that is a downstream consequence of a debased mind that God has given them over to, >> are we to just applaud along? This goes to what we were talking about at the end of last week's episode with Alistister Beg. >> You don't applaud and go along with something that is a downstream consequence of a debased mind that God gave someone over to. >> You do not look at any of the things on this list, right? So go from verse 24 all the way down to 31. You don't take any of these things and celebrate it. You certainly don't go to a ceremony that corporately celebrates it. >> Yeah. >> And you don't go to a church where the pastor is upholding anything in here as virtuous or allowable. >> That's there's there's no category for that. MacArthur defined love as a sacrificial, self-giving pursuit of another's well-being, even at personal costs, consistent with biblical teaching and God's actions, especially Jesus's sacrifice for humanity. There's some bullet points that I made from our my uh teaching a couple weeks ago that embrace self-sacrifice. Realize how you've been forgiven. Binds love binds together. Love is the means in which our faith works. Love, love leads us to speak truth, and love gives us knowledge and discernment. That's what love does. Love is an action. Love is not a feeling. Not love is not an affirmation. It's an action. And when you tell your brother or your neighbor the truth because you love them and because what they're doing is unnatural and unruly that there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe in the way that you do it. If you're doing it with a hateful heart, then don't you don't need >> But that's the truth and love part. And a lot of people leave the truth behind. >> Well, and love love is is tethered Christian love is tethered to eternity. >> Yeah. And if you use the analogy of like someone is is walking towards a cliff, but they have no idea they're about to fall off a cliff. You don't let them just walk off the cliff. If you've got to if you've got to tackle them to the ground, that doesn't feel good >> when you tackle somebody to the ground. But if you are saving their life, you are going to do whatever you can to save their life. >> And so love has to be >> tethered to our eternity. M >> and if you separate it from that, >> you're separating it from what God is in his love. >> And that's that's when you start to get into the feeling. So like love is always going to be tethered to eternity. You don't and you don't let people just willfully go >> to their eternity or to to their eternal doom if you can help it. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes that means being not nice and breaking the 11th commandment. >> Yeah. That's the thing that I don't quite understand is I mean I just really wish there were more pastors that had lead in their pencil and said, "Okay, I know this is going to sound weird in a modern context, but" and then fill in the blank with what whatever heterodox opinion is is like, you know, opposite of what the culture is propagating. And so whether that's on the abortion issue or the transgenderism issue or the homosexuality issue or on gay marriage or on any of those types of categories, it's like acknowledge like the elephant in the room and say, "Hey, the stuff I'm going to say right now is going to sound really bad, but it shouldn't sound that bad. It's part of what our culture has given itself over to is that some of you this is going to bristle up against you." Whereas most pastors are just go along to get along and they will parrot the same things from our atheistic satanic culture. >> Here's the thing. If a pastor preaches that, if he stands at the pulpit and preaches it, is the leaders of the church and the pastor willing to do something about it if it's in their congregation. >> Oh, what we don't >> church discipline. >> Church discipline. >> When is the last time you heard about someone going through church discipline? >> Uh Burke Parsons, Ligonier Ministries. >> Yeah. So that's a unique prominent yeah a prominent member and you've seen like Steve Lawson like there's other people that have gone through stuff like that. I'm pretty sure Burke has been restored >> because I I I I'm >> Let's look at it in a less >> and those are as I say I think sometimes we're picking out large well-known pastors but like just >> what about just individual individual at the church I was at before they had a uh children's pastor who had an affair with another woman >> and um they try to get him to repent you know they basically are like hey you need to repent of this or one you're going to lose your job well one he probably already lost his job but two we're going to excommunicate you from the church. And he was like, "No, I love her. I'm not I'm not saying that our love is is is a sinful thing." And they excommunicated him. He was out. You know, >> well, how you you brought this up in Sunday school, but how can you perform church discipline if you don't have membership? >> Oh, yeah. That's what's big at our church because I asked when we became members at church and Jay was Jay was our elder that came and talked to us and he's like, "Well, we have church membership now so we can have church discipline." And I was like, that makes sense because like how are you supposed to keep your flock accountable >> if you can't discipline them? Like cuz the the thing like and RC RC Sproul talks about kind of a similar situation at a church he was at. They had a woman who had an affair with another man. She was not going to go back to her husband. She was going to divorce him. And he was trying to get her to repent of it. And it got to the very end of him where he was pleading with her to repent. And he's like, I will this. There's nothing worse than being excommunicated from the church, from God. like we're letting you go. We're leaving you to your sin, >> you know. And she's like, "Well, that's kind of sad." But she ended up leaving, you know, and that's the thing, like the last thing I want to do is be excommunicated from my church. Yeah. >> Because if they excommunicate me, they're let letting me go for my sin. That means God's almost letting me go for my sin. Unless he opens my eyes at some point, I repent. >> Well, and church attendance is cheap. So that that's one of the things that breaks down with the seeker sensitive model where you have Mick Church where you open up the big one with the cult of personality guy and then you just put a bunch more campuses in and out there and everything. It's milk. It's all TED talks, Bible verses, all the stuff I said a billion times on this podcast. >> But if there's not a membership arm of what you're doing, you can't do discipline. And this is why I'll just go to another campus. They don't know me over there. >> Yeah. I'll just go to another MC church and I'll just kind of pop in there and get my coffee and my popcorn and then I'll go in and sit and I'll throw my hands up during worship if I feel like it. I'll listen to the TED talk and then I'll bounce, right? You know, get in, get out. >> I I think that's the thing. It's like maybe you don't take our church for example. Maybe we meet with somebody and three out of five change. Those three people changed and repented and came back, right? But are we willing to have those conversations? Are we are we are we willing to have difficult loving conversations of >> No, because I think we forget this part of the verse of 32 like those who practice such things deserve to die. It's not that serious to us. >> Yeah. >> Nope. >> Well, because these aren't these aren't sins that >> people there's capital punishment for anymore. Yeah. >> You know, uh maybe some of them like murder and stuff like that, but >> Yeah. They might execute you 40 years from now. >> Yeah, >> maybe. >> But but yeah, they deserve to die. But like that's the thing is this is where churches have to be accountable and churches are letting people live in sin. We So Lady Horn and I lived together before we got married. We actually went to a church um what do you want to call it like marriage counseling thing, premarital counseling thing. They knew we lived together. Nobody called us out. The only person that called us out was our friend who didn't do it in a very lovingly way. and we weren't in the right Christian mindset to receive it. But like I look back on it now and I was like, "Yeah, man. We were totally in the wrong." She was right. >> But thanks be to God that she had the courage to say something to you. Even if she didn't say it the right way, she still brought >> and yeah, she still brought the truth. But uh but that's the thing. We sat in church under church leadership and they still signed the paper for us as marriage counselors. Nobody held us accountable. >> And here's the thing. What So it's impossible to go back that far and to think what would I have done? But let's just say an elder or one of the pastors said took y'all aside after the class and said, "Hey, are y'all are y'all living together and you said yes and they said, "Okay, um I'm not going to force you to go do this, but how about we hop in the car right now? I'll take you down to the uh the courthouse and we'll we'll go ahead and make this official. You can do your ceremony later, but just go ahead and get married." I >> I think that would have been I think we would have received that. Like that's what I'm going to tell my kids is like, hey, you know, my kids ask, "Will you live?" >> Yeah. Don't burn with passion. >> And I'll be like, "We did it wrong." I was like, "We should have just went and got married." Because that's the problem. The problem nowadays, we have these marriages, these big old weddings and all this stuff rather than people wanting people don't want to wait, you know, or people want to wait longer. It's like, "No, just go get married. You want to go and fornicate, don't forget, go get married. Do it the right way. If if it's leading down to that, go get married." Because here's the thing. Whether you live together for one or two years and you get married, you're still going to walk through all that strife. You know what? If you know what a godly marriage is and what God wanted marriage for, you know that marriage is a covenant and not a contract, you're going to work through those things. But we've cheapened marriage. We've cheapened marriage. We've cheapened the gospel. We cheapened a lot of things that God has made beautiful to us. >> Yeah. The worst thing that ever happened to the covenantal like God sanctioned marriage was government involvement. Yeah. And the no fault divorce. You know who was uh you know who put the no first no fault divorce in? >> Reagan. >> Reagan. Like I love Reagan. >> That's what he says. It was one of his biggest mistakes of his entire political career. >> No fault divorce. And like I I understand why he went to that. He was like divorced like three times before he finally did it, you know. But that's the thing. It's like so you can't look at whatever party or anything like that. Like it's just like >> there's beauty in God's design and we always fall away from the beauty of his design. Hey Matt, what what were we saying on the no fault divorce? And >> I just think I think that's that's cheapened that's cheapened our view of marriage and that is um taken away our reverence for that covenant. And the conse one of the consequences of that is it kind of helps remove our revenant our reverence for God's covenants >> like that there's an upstream effect of that because what God has ordained as a righteous covenant between a man and a woman that is to symbolize our covenant with God that we are the bridegroom of Christ bloodbought by his sacrifice we have cheapened that and just it's I mean it's you can you can do it but you can get out of it. >> There's the upstream effect of that is everything else that God has ordained as holy. We you you can without even being conscious about it go well if marriage isn't that big of a deal why is everything else >> well and the other thing as well that I think is important is I think we should titles matter. I think titles are very very important. If you're in a marriage like that where staying is cheap, leaving is cheap, everything's cheap. Don't call him your wife. Like, call him your your superg girlfriend, right? Don't call him your husband. Call him your super boyfriend because that's essentially what you're doing. And so that's what all the soci sociological data points to about couples that live together before they get married. Divorce rates are actually higher. And people are like, well, how does that because the conventional wisdom, the worldly wisdom is, well, you would never buy a car without test driving it. And so, I'm just like test driving what living with this woman and sleeping with this woman is like, right? I mean, you know, you bought into that. You've been very open about that, Ryan. But the the other thing about it is is the reason why is cuz you're practicing divorce. You are practicing not being one with somebody else, right? You're practicing, I could get out of here with my dog and my toothbrush and it really wouldn't be that big of a deal. And with no fault divorce, it can happen that way as well. Now, as soon as you have kids, it gets a little ickier. If you have assets, it gets a little ickier. But that just means you have to have more uh meetings with attorneys and pay a higher fee. It's it's just more inconvenient. But you're still going to get out. >> But when you take that beautiful design, and this is what we're talking about in a fallen culture, in a culture that is being um depraved and given up to and abandoned is we took the beauty of marriage through a no fault divorce. And what did that lead to? What was the biggest thing that was used to push for Oberfeld uh the Oberfeld ruling? When people say, "Well, marriage is a Christian institution. It's performed by the church. This is what the Bible says. But how many divorced Christians are there out there? >> Yeah. And how many of them got remarried in churches? >> Yeah. Got remarried in churches. So it takes away whatever reverence we do have like you were pointing out because now it just leads to more things because >> Christians are getting divorced in high rates too, you know, and so it's like what is marriage? Is marriage really anything? Because Christians get divorced. And it's like, yeah, I mean, like, I don't have a leg to stand on on that one, you know, because our churches have allowed this to happen. >> That's what I was saying earlier, like we've neutered ourselves to to speak to that immorality and culture. >> Yeah. Well, guys, uh this has been a great discussion uh really for the last several weeks with this crew, but we're going to go ahead and leave it there. So, it took us 12 hours, but we have finished Romans 1. And so, guys, if you are listening to this on time, come back next week where we are going to start chapter 2 of the book of Romans. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. At Undaunted Life, our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Reminder, we are affiliated with Crossway. It is a great publisher. They have a fivebook forging table starter set for you guys. You can get all these books. It includes an ESV men's study Bible, Book of Roman Scripture Journal, a Paul David Trip devotional, a couple of other books, one by the great Vodie Bacham. And you guys can get all those books at a 50% discount. And then also we have the Logos Bible software. The most powerful of all Bible softwares on the planet. All of us, a lot of us use it for our preparation for the forging table. Use that software, but don't use it at full price. There is a link in the show notes where you can get it at a discount. And also, we are a donationbased ministry. If you're wondering how you can support Undaunted Life and help us equipment around the globe to push back darkness, it's because of donors just like you. Hop on board and be a donor. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive fivestar review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast or shoot me an email to info@undantton.life, that's info@undanton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]