[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. >> Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Dan. That's Browning. That's Matt Chandler in the flesh. And guys, uh last uh podcast we got through how many words? >> We got through six words. >> Six words, but that's like one and a half words in the Greek. So, I think we're absolutely like smoking it right now. Uh, but you know, last time I felt like we did a disservice because I evangelize three things, four things really in life. The gospel of Jesus Christ, eating meat, Christian metal, and jiu-jitsu. Those are the things that I'm basically a walking billboard for. And gosh darn it, we just mentioned jiu-jitsu a couple times and we didn't do a deep dive discussion. And I know Browning and Dan, you were both very, very disappointed that we didn't spend a lot of time talking about the ins and outs of doing uh Brazilian jiu-jitsu, but uh for you uh Dean, I heard that, you know, early on in life, you got some early exposure to jiu-jitsu and maybe there was a little confusion that happened with that. >> I did. Well, you know, childhood is a confusing time, you know. So, um and I was in Bartlesville, Oklahoma. It's where I grew up. >> Metropolis. >> Um Yep. And uh so I had had you know you know everybody in town, you go to school with everybody in town. And there were two brothers that took jiu-jitsu and um but they were also uh Jewish and they went to synagogue in Tulsa. So I I grew up thinking that they that they took Jew jitsu. >> J E W, not J I was like I can't do it. >> I was like where's the Baptist jitsu? like where are we doing jitsu for the Baptist? >> So, you know, and I thought that for a long time and I was like, man, they've got like they they have finally said, >> you know, shine you to all the oppression, all the centuries oppression. We are not taking anymore. And by God, they created their own fighting style. Don't don't mess with the Jews. They will jitsu you. >> There it is. >> And uh and then I remember I was like in the car with my mom. I remember the car I was in. It was this big blue Buick and we were in a part of town that I hadn't really ever been down before, didn't remember. And we passed by what what is it? A dojo. >> Like an academy or >> Okay. And it said whatever the name was. >> Uh Mr. Gilkkey, I think was his name. And it said karate, judo, jiujitsu, and it was like >> wait, >> oh, jujitsu. I get it. You know, there there's a thing with with language because again, and I I sorry to admit this, but I already admitted on the show because I was like two years ago, years old, when I realized that when scripture was talking about being unequally yolked, that it was yolked and not yolked like egg yolk. >> You're like, I've been telling you guys to do legs. >> Yeah. I don't really understand what that was. I didn't understand it was a yolk. I was thinking like eggs, you know, yolk like ah, you know, we got some bad yolk and some good yolk. And so yeah, you know, sometimes we just struggle. But that would be interesting. How do cuz jiu-jitsu can kind of be a rough sport. How do you keep your little hat on like while you're doing something like that? I feel like that would be difficult. That's why they created kroaga cuz it's a lot easier. Create a fake fighting style and then like you know >> just rip their throats out so you don't >> The funniest thing about kraaga is like cuz I you know there's a guy that was like telling me he's like yeah you know jiu-jitsu I don't really know but like I'm thinking about taking cram. Like do you know you can't technically train kraaga cuz it's like eye gouges and like crotch ripping and different things like that. It's like >> is that dance fighting? >> Yeah, but it's not quite dance fighting but it's close. But and the Kravagan people right now are just like absolutely furious. It's like hey if you want to know if Kromaga actually works, how about you go to a jiu-jitsu gym and just roll with a decent looking blue belt and see how that goes. But like yeah, it's like how many sets of eye gouging did you do a practice today? Like it's like you can't technically train it at You know what I mean? >> Well, I don't know. I saw a buddy just bought a um an AI robot >> that he can fight >> that he can fight. So maybe they've got one that you have seen that I have not. >> Okay. Okay. So we'll we'll show it to you. We'll leave them nameless cuz not everybody likes being named on this show. But yes, it is a it's I think it's called a robot. Not a robot, but a robot. And the thing is is when you when you arm bar it, it'll break. Like so it'll break and come back and all that. And it's only like he said it took over a year for it to come in cuz it was only being beta tested. The first time I saw an ad for it, I literally thought it was a dude dressed up in like a spandex costume and he was just sitting there like pretending. I thought it was a gag. No, it's like a real thing. And I don't even know how much something like that. >> No, I just looked it up. Oh my gosh, this is real. >> Yeah, it's real. And here's the thing. So, it's got like >> Predator looking. >> I thought it was from Squid Game. That's literally what it looked like. >> It's literally got a thing across its eyes like uh what was the uni unibrow guy from X-Men? What was his name? Cyclops. >> Oh, yeah. Cyclops. Cyclops. >> Unibrow guy. Uh, but no, he So, when you choke it, when you choke it, it will it will verbally tap if you choke it hard enough. The thing though is like I was choking it and I was choking it for long enough to kill it and it did not it did not tap, but its eyes will turn red or whatever, like your your blood choking it or something like that. But yeah, you can you can leg lock it. You can do all kinds of different things with it. >> Hey, two two things. One, I'm pretty sure I don't want to order an AI robot equipped with jiu-jitsu skills. delivered to my house. It doesn't matter that. Okay. >> And then second, I mean, you're talking about eye gouging like it's like so casual like, oh yeah, how are you going to train with that? I don't care how many or how you train to eye gouge somebody. It's obviously you're not training the real way. You could consider yourself an eye gouging master. The first time you go out to pluck out a dude's eye, you're going to puke. That you're going to like, right? You know how I know that's not true is because like if I really don't like somebody and I really need them to just suffer for as long as possible. The thing is is you take them down because a general human being like you just touch their legs and they fall over because they're just like they they're just topheavy. They just fall over and then you you get in mount, you get a head and arm triangle and you just choke them and then they just softly go to sleep and then you just start systematically breaking limbs, right? So you kamura and then Americana. So you break their shoulder both ways. Then you arm bar them and break the arm. Then you wrist lock them and break the wrist and then they probably wake up around some time and then you you just kind of choke them back unconscious to put them back to sleep. Then you start working on the legs. So you pop the knees with heel hooks. >> This actually sounds like our roll yesterday. I was looking at the robot. I was like, "Wait, is he talking about rolling with me yesterday?" >> It was close. You know, it it was they were really close matches sort of uh at before we started. But then like you know you straight ankle locks and all those things. And so at that point they are so ready for you to just pluck their eyes out. Like they're ready for it at that point. So you just snatch them out, right? Like a kung fu. >> I saw the Three Stooges. It's just one of these things, right? >> It's an easy block. Easy block. Yeah. >> I'm just saying. So you have to go left or right. So it's not It's not as bad as you might think, Dean. >> Yeah. The robot's like, >> "Yeah, the You know what? I never even thought about that. That that thing technically probably does have offensive capabilities and it's just sitting there the whole time like this idiot thinks I'm going to wireless. It's It's one wire, >> one over the air update from taking over your entire neighborhood. >> You're thinking you can just take the battery out of the battery. Battery backup, baby. Solar power. >> He's already figured it out. It's coming. >> Well, I'm terrified. So, let's talk about the Bible because all of a sudden, I'm very very scared about everything. So, uh we are still, guys, if you didn't listen to last week, we started Romans. Technically, we got through six words, uh in Romans 1:1. So, we're going to pick back up in Romans 1:1. Uh so Matt, if you'll read Romans 1:1 again and then we'll we'll move on to the second of three parts of the first verse. >> Okay. Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus called to be an apostle set apart for the gospel of God. >> So last uh last time last week, we talked about servant and we talked about dulos and bondervant and and how you're being purchased and all that. But you know, Paul's introducing himself or reintroducing himself here because again he was Saul of Tarsus. He was a, you know, a terrorist against Christians at one point, but now he's saying he's called to be an apostle. So I think at this point, you know, some people will look at Bible reading and again, you know, I didn't grow up in church. And so you hear disciple and apostle and you think, oh, these are just synonyms. These are just interchangeable terms. But not really. Like, you know, cuz even during the time of Jesus's public ministry, there were people that were called apostles and there were people that were called disciples. And some of them were the same person, but it was not the same thing. They didn't have the same criteria, I guess you could say. And so let's just kind of talk a little bit about the the criteria of like okay when he says I'm an apostle what does that mean? >> Yeah. So apostle in the Greek just means sent one. Um the the apostles that we see in the New Testament are those who had personally been with Jesus. That's the debate. Are there apostles for today? Are there not like and then there's big A apostles little apostles. So the that that's a whole different we don't need to talk about that. But Paul is arguing I have seen Jesus with my own eyes. I have been with him. I am one of the scent ones. I am an apostle of Jesus Christ. >> And I think as well when you look at criteria uh so I mean if you look at the book of acts according to the book of acts and a lot of the the commentary guys a lot of us have dug into a bunch of different commentaries. I thought RC Sproul's a year in Romans was fantastic. I've dug into uh Tim Keller's uh stuff in Romans. And so some of this commentary is going to be, you know, tinged or just straight from some of those things because it's just very helpful. But according to the book of Acts, you know, criteria for being an apostle, you know, either a disciple during Jesus's earthly ministry, two is an eyewitness of the resurrection, and three directly called by Jesus. And if we look at, you know, Paul was directly called by Jesus. So we see that, you know, that Jesus calls Paul three times in the book of Acts. And so, uh, the criteria for for that is an apostle. But yeah, people do kind of get wrapped around the axle a little bit on capital A or little A, apostle or whatever. But for you guys, what else should y'all look at when it came to apostle? >> Very similar. Um, I did note that he raised people from the dead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, kind of kind of a big deal, right? >> Well, we've discussed before, you know, Paul the right out of the gate, the first word of the of the sentence starts with Paul. And what that really kind of brings to me is the sense of this transformation that Jesus Christ brings. And certainly on the Damascus road, that that's what he imparted to Paul. But moving on to be called an apostle, it's like when when when you by faith accept the gospel, God through Jesus Christ changes your heart, takes you from Saul to Paul, but he also changes your mission. >> Yeah. Right? There is no separation of that. There aren't some people where he changes their heart and does not change their mission. And and certainly you wouldn't want to be where he changes your mission without changing your heart. >> Those things coincide. And I think I when I see this, I think a lot of times like we wouldn't identify ourselves by our mission as Christians, right? It's like the saying you're Christian, you're identifying your heart change. But in part of that it's like well the other half of that is like well what is the what what what is the act purpose mission that that you have been set on because obviously Paul's was very uh overt right like it was like literally so so bright it blinded him of what he knew he was expected of but you know uh transformative of the heart but also the mission and part. >> Yeah. He never was short on his knowing what his mission was throughout life. Um, you know, that was one thing that never changed. His circumstances he had no control over really in the grand scheme of things, but he could always live out his mission. Uh, that that was one thing that really impressed me. >> Yeah. I I think the thing that it >> again is so profound here and you you talked about it in our you know sixword session the the grace of God here like in Galatians 1:15 the Apostle Paul says now um when the one who set me apart before I was born was pleased to reveal the son to me and and so Now you've got you've got this Saul of Tarsus and I and I want to highlight this because I think so many Christians I know never get to their mission because there's this thing in their past, there's this struggle in their present. There are these spaces that for them they're kind of disqualified from being profoundly and powerfully used by God. But Paul's argument even in saying, "Hey, I was called an apostle with his backstory." And then in Galatians, he's going to go, "No, no, no. That God was still God even when I was wild and out. In fact, now all the more he's taken what was to my shame and weaponized it against the enemy so that I could tell you, listen, I'm the chief of sinners. I don't care what you've done. It look at what I've done." And it pleased the father to reveal the son to me. It's this idea that on the day that Paul gets up and he climbs up on that horse and he's heading to Damascus, like God that morning's like, "Today's the day. >> Today's the day." And and that idea that it pleased the father to reveal the son to Saul of Tarsus. It is a mindbending reality of God's grace where we would think this is a man who should be killed. >> I mean, he's kicked him. And God just keeps doing this with this Saul Paul dance. Like even if you think Acts 13, the church at Antioch, which becomes ground zero for Paul's missionary journeys, the whole story shifts in Acts 13 out of Jerusalem to Antioch. And Antioch becomes ground zero for Paul's three missionary journeys, which is why we have our New Testament. Well, how did the church at Antioch get there? Because at the stoning of Stephen and Saul ravaging the church, they fled Jerusalem. And Antioch is actually planted by Saul ravaging the church. And then Saul ends up being Paul in Acts 13 at Antioch worshiping with the brethren, fasting and seeking the Lord when the Holy Spirit says set aside for me um Paul and Barnabas for the work that I have for them. So this idea of God redeeming the worst parts of our story, those those parts where we think back on them and still feel like nauseous that we let ourselves go farther than we thought we could or we did something that was darker than we could have fathomemed. Well, well, right here and again, we hadn't got out of the first sentence yet that you're seeing the power of grace that that he was called an apostle and Galatians says it pleased God to do that. pleased him to save Paul and to give him this mission and that God was still God in the middle of all that nonsense. >> Well, I I actually want to bring this up because it's it's very applicable to where we are right now. So, typically on the forging table kind of, you know, we used to have a lot of rules and we're basically down to one rule which is basically like, hey, no news cycle stuff because it's going to sound funny in two or three months whenever this comes out like, oh, here we're talking about something. But right now, they're still trying to find the bodies of dead. >> Yeah. >> You know, uh dead girls and and uh families because of the flooding in Texas, uh not far from from where you do ministry. And the stories are just absolutely >> heartbreaking. But then there's also heroism and sacrifice. And you know, the the director of Camp Mystic literally died trying to save the rest of the girls that was that was under his care. And so there have been some um some ghoulish, evil, horrible people making, you know, political statements because they, you know, Trump broke their brains and, you know, here they are trying to, you know, get get a one up on on Republicans or conservatives or whatever. But the thing that I I I want to talk about which kind of, you know, goes to a point or that you were talking about a little bit is a a major dunk of atheists, you know, uh or agnostics or whatever is how could your good God allow that to happen? Oh, a few dozen little girls that are at a Christian camp singing Christian songs and they get washed away and they drown to death. Oh, is there a good God? But you look at what happened with Stephen being stoned, right? >> What that caused this fraction that pushed people out when you see Paul in Acts whenever he had to split off from uh uh >> Barnabas, right? >> And for whatever reason, they couldn't reconcile and so their ministries multiplied. So it was a multiplication by division, right? But that is a hard thing. And apologists have been giving their reasons for, you know, for, you know, they're apologetic for how God can still be good and allow people to die in tsunamis or for children to be raped and murdered or for any number of horribly evil things that that we see. And then we look at this flood situation and be like, how could there be any good, right, capital G good coming out of something like this? How can God be glorified? How could his will be done by the suffering of his children? And so, I mean, we've all kind of given an answer to that. We've read answers to that. But, Matt, even as a pastor, like, if you were sitting there, if this happened in your community and you were sitting there with families that are angry at God, angry at you for being a representative of God, and they're saying, "But my baby's gone." >> Yeah. >> You know, so like, what do you even say to kind of bring them back around to like, "Hey, this is part of a larger story." >> Yeah. Well, I certainly probably wouldn't say anything at the moment. Probably just weep with them. >> Yep. And uh like it really is hard to get the mind around um how awful um that thing is. >> And so man, I'm not I'm not coming with any bumper stickers or even Romans 8:28 at that moment. I think the command in scripture is just to weep with those who weep. Um and so I'd do the best I can to enter mourning. But I'd put it in my heart as a young man I was going to teach the village how to suffer well before it came. Um, you know, we were, I think, median age of the village. The first decade I was there was like 24, 25. I didn't do the funeral for a 70 year old faithful man until I'd been at the church for like 13, 14 years. All my funerals were little boxes. All my funerals were 24 year old, just got married last year, went fishing, didn't come home. Um, and so I just put in my heart, I want to create a theological grid for us to understand the brokenness of the world and how to cling to Christ when these things happen because they will happen. I would say all the time like our lives are so much more fragile than we think they are. Like even the four of us like our whole life can change with a phone call. >> Yep. >> Like any minute. And that not that's not meant to lead us into anxiety. It's just meant to give us an awareness and a sobriety about the brokenness of the world and the effects of sin on the cosmos, not just people. But I Augustine had this illustration. I've always loved it. He he talked about have like for us life is like having your face pressed against a stained glass window that you're you're just going to see like jagged broken pieces and a little bit of color but there's no way for you to comprehend the stained glass window and and that's the promise of all things being made new. That's the promise of revelation. Like we could we could live to be a hundred and not find any good from what just happened in Kurville. I I think like there's got to be a level of humility in us to go we're here for about half a second next to God's eternality. >> Uh like we're everlasting. God and God alone is eternal. He has always been. He will always be. that that sees things very differently than we see. That experiences things very different than we experience them. So, I've often times tried to say like imagine going into a 4-hour movie and getting to watch two seconds of it and then try to explain to me the plot. >> Yeah. >> Like you're not you're not going to know who's good, who's bad, what's up, what's down. You you got two seconds of a 4-hour movie. You'll know nothing. And the Bible's giving you that. It's going look, you're here. You're you're like dew on the grass. like you're here in the morning and you're gone by afternoon. That we're finite, we're small, we can't see. I I don't think if God gave us the answers as clear as we want it, we could comprehend it with this little P brain that we have like there there's a kind of sovereign reign going on right now that's always going to be confusing and mysterious to us. Always. It has to be. God has revealed himself to us in the scriptures. What we know from the scriptures is that he is good. We see him move towards rebellious sinful people over and over and over and over again. At every point when you and I would say kill them all, God moves towards and makes a way. Every time and and this is the nature and character of God as he's revealed himself to us. So I have to trust that in the mystery of heartbreak especially. I have to trust that in the day of trouble. I have to cling to the visible Christ on the cross dying for my sins a as a picture that God is for me, not against me. That God is working all things together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. But I I need that in my bones before the day of trouble, not when it lands. Which is why if I'm walking up to somebody who's [inaudible] at God because of something horrific, I'm not even entering into that. I'm just going to weep with them. >> When I think well obviously I think uh the weeping with those who weep and then there is eventually where you do have to get to bedrock on your philosophy. I saw someone uh do this at one point but they said hey they were trying to explain somebody like you know whether or not you can believe in God. And so they drew a big circle on a whiteboard and then they put a dot inside that circle and they're like cuz they asked the person, "Hey, of all the knowledge that has ever been known, that's personal experiences, that's history, that's everything that's ever happened. If that were a circle, what amount of that circle would you know?" And the person's like, "Yeah, probably very little." So he puts a little dot in there. So the Curveville situation, the flooding, any tragedy, any negative thing that's ever happened, whether it's to an individual person or to a group of people or whatever, the knowledge of God is the big circle and your knowledge is that little dot like cuz you saw some clips on Instagram or you watched the news or you you cut a check and sent some stuff out. And can I give a quick shout out to HB? Like I'm not a Texas guy, but HB I literally watched a video today of it was like the HB uh disaster relief, whatever, and it was 18-wheeler after 18-wheeler before FEMA gets there, before the Red Cross gets there, before anybody. They are loading up stuff from their grocery stores and distribution facilities and getting it to the front line. So, like I don't know, I I have no affiliation with HB. I just thought that that was freaking awesome. Texas just coming together to to straight up Texas the whole thing. But that's that's the reminder for me is whenever I get frustrated at a situation, I have to remember the dot. The dot is what I understand. Now, if it were my daughter or one of my boys, man, that wouldn't be very comforting. No, in that moment. And there's not a whole lot of comforting from people like getting theological, you know, ex Jesus of, well, you actually shouldn't be sad. You know why? Because eventually every tear will be no. At that point, it's like, you know, I'd just as soon fight you as hug you if you were to say something like that to me. if that had happened to to to my people. But it's like at some point you have to have the view of God. And when you're assuming the role of God and saying there could be no net positive to this negative situation, it's like brother, you're not big enough to sit in that seat. You just don't have like to say you have blinders on would be the understatement of the century. >> And it's we won't get there. you I you're probably not going to get there at at this rate until a year from now, but >> we might be uh >> one of the might be pipering this and we might be in one one for the next eight months. >> One of the one of the ways that Paul is going to help us understand the nature of sin in verse 28 is a failure to acknowledge God. And this is one of those moments where God has not gotten any credit for a thousand summers where nothing like this happened. but he'll get the blame for the summer that it did. And this, according to Paul's theology, reveals the wickedness of man. >> That you give him no praise and you give him all blame. You fail to acknowledge him. >> That you've been given a thousand mercies, both seen and unseen, and you've given no praise to God. So, the same thing can happen in a plane crash. Like, nobody at the end of the day gets in bed and just goes, "Oh my gosh, out of the tens of thousands of planes that have taken off today, they've all landed. God must be good. >> Yeah. >> One goes down. How can your God be good that a plain and and so this is Paul saying this is the bent of the human heart. It's a failure to acknowledge him. It's a belief in the self. It's a preferring creation to the creator. This is how the wickedness of man has been revealed. This is how the judgment of God, this is why the judgment of God will be revealed is how chapter one's going to continue. Like because you you never praised God for the thousands of summer afternoons, the thousands of July 4ths that have been frolicking in his creation, enjoying the flavors that he created, letting the sun that he spoke into existence kiss your skin, catching the fish that he spoke into being by the word of his power and and not a mention of praise to him. And now this he's going to get all the blame for. This is Paul talking about the wickedness of the human heart that refuses to acknowledge him and and gives themselves over to a depraved mind. >> Well, and that's why I I literally hope in heaven like I hope there's a lot of things going on in heaven. So, but like one of the things I hope there are amphitheaters, right? So, there's the Kyle Thompson amphitheater and I've got DVR and I've got all the highlight reels of my life like the coolest things when no one was around, right? When you hit that that trick shot and no one's around and your phone wasn't recording, right? You know that situation. And so you can do all that, but then also all the times where God's like, "Hey, man. >> Uh, you were," So I've told the story before, but it's like, you know, you're mad because you can't find your keys, but if you had found your keys initially and been in the truck, you would have been in that intersection whenever someone blew through the light. So at Grassmmer and I back in college, we were doing this uh, you know, character, civility, community program for these sixth graders. And, you know, we're driving back to campus and I'm I'm very anal about when you're on the front by the light, you're the first car. You got to be paying attention more than anybody because if you're not paying attention and you don't start driving immediately, two or three people aren't going to get through the light and it's your fault because you're a terrible person. And so, for whatever reason, I'm distracted, right? I'm at the front of the light. I'm distracted. Maybe I'm changing my CD and the CD player. Sorry, we had CDs. I know y'all grew up with cassettes over here. Um, what did y'all have in cars? Did y'all have Did y'all have like >> tapes? It was tracks or like actual >> records had both a track and record at the house. >> Watch out. In the car. So, here we are in the car changing out the CD to something awesome, right? Probably Amy Grant. Yeah. Yeah. You know, something like that. I'm flipping through and I look up, the lights green, panic mode, right? I'm the guy. I'm the guy in the scenario that everything's falling apart. No one's going to get through this light, but they're too nice to honk at me. And I go to put my foot on the gas and a truck goes flying through this intersection in Edmond, probably 50, 60 mph. It's definitely speeding. We're talking seconds after the light had turned red. >> Had I been paying attention, he hits me. Yeah. Right on the side of the car. That's probably curtains for me at that point. >> And so I just hope there's those moments to where God's like, "Yeah, you were really chastising yourself for being one of those horrible people that won't just go immediately when the light turns green." I made sure you were distracted like for whatever reason. I knew you were going to be done with that that CD at that moment and that you were going to be flipping to another one and that you weren't going to be able to get it out of the plastic at just the right rate that in order to kind of pop it into the thing and blah blah blah and then here I was taking care of you the entire time and gosh we just don't really have that perspective >> and um another thing that I wanted to talk about with here you know you said you know what what is what is a possible mean sent one right >> I feel like and again you know you guys are you know business owners and you have done quite a few different things. I feel like when people hear sent one, they think vocational ministry or mission work, right? So, I'm sent. Okay. So, I need to move out of my my life in whereversville that I live and I need to go somewhere else or hey, I need to go go to Bible school or theology school and get some training and then I can go into vocational ministry. And so, for whatever reason, we think when you say sent one, it means sent away. But it's just like, no, no, no. scent one could be your cubicle farm because you worked at at some place where everybody's in their own little cubicle and that's where your team is. It could be doing physical therapy. It could be in sales. It could be in whatever the thing is. It's like >> your neighborhood that you live in, your HOA, which I don't think anyone actually is allowed to evangelize in an HOA. I think that's in the rules. You're not allowed to do that. But like that's where you're sent to. But I just feel like and maybe maybe I'm wrong, but like I feel like when people hear that they they think sent away. It's just like it's the wrong modality, I think. >> Well, and you know, love your neighbor as yourself. But then in addition to that, it's like we we don't we don't look very far uh to see a mission field around us, right? In our homes, in our relationships families kids spouses neighbors. But but the hard part, I think, on so many Christians is that we we the first thing we do is judge whether they deserve it. You know, it's like, "Hey, I'm sent." But >> you're kind of weird. I don't want to be sent to you. >> I you know, and I and and I had I I had a neighbor at one point where they would pick up dog poop and I would witness dog poop flying over the fence into my yard, right? Like, and I had a big dog and they had a small dog and I know small dog poop and I'd see it. So, I I suspected for a while, right? And then there was one day I was out in the backyard and I guess they obviously didn't know I was back there or didn't care and little, you know, little toy poodle turds start flying over the fence and I immediately just kind of ride them off. Like that's all it took. That's all it took for me to feel like you're no longer part of my mission field. >> Yeah. >> Now imagine if you had known jiu-jitsu or kaga at that point. We're probably having [Music] crab though. >> Hey, you know what? I feel like we should set up denominational jiu-jitsu tournaments so it can be Methodist jiu-jitsu like Assemblies of God Methu. Methu >> Church of Christ jiu-jitsu, right? I think we could do all the We couldn't have any music with that with that tournament, right? That would be rough. >> Could hurt people with the singing. That's right. >> It is painful sometimes. Uh some people are singing to the Lord and uh I hope some sometimes I wish those were the only people listening would be the Lord because if I have to listen to it. No, like I again it's the whole scent away thing because Browning I think about this a lot of times because in those paws you got there that helped carry this forging table up here to the studio like you provide a lot of healing and relief for people doing what you do and you've provided healing and relief for me uh quite a few times with different injuries and you know bumps and bruises that come from jiu-jitsu or lifting or whatever just living an active life in my my late 30s man I feel like I'm falling apart especially at a table like this but like yeah you >> don't even know yet bro it's hurt everything's painful But like that that is your mission field and just by doing a good job and doing a good work like you're kind of doing the capital A apostle thing just just by doing the work that you're doing. But at some point Matt you've talked about this before who has been saved by the hey you know what something's different about you. I've never heard you cuss. Yeah. I've never heard you listen to any secular music. You don't listen to Slipnot. Yeah. I let's try this whole Christian thing out. Like that's like kind of like church camp language. But like I'm just wondering from your perspective as well kind of even just doing doing what you do for a living. >> When we were off air we were you were talking about Marty's down in Bartonville. Um and I just you know what a great just to kind of hear what he's done with his space and his the food that he's providing ice cream etc. But then providing opportunities for ministry. I mean that that was really really cool to kind of hear that. I think within my my scope as a physical therapist, I know that I'm ministering to people >> by providing healing physically, but so much of those folks um are also hurting mentally. Yeah. >> And obviously there's a a spiritual aspect to that that I can inject in there. So for me, when I see an individual, you know, one of the things that we do with like students, there's like this I've got like 40 things I've got to evaluate a student on when they come in. But one of them has to do with like cultural diversity and differences and how do they handle different kinds of people. And that's a really really big one because I I do not get to make a decision on who I I mean I could, but I don't get to make a decision on who gets referred to me. they just show up and I get all people of all walks of life at different variable levels of hurt, you know, and in in those aspects I mentioned earlier. So, I just make it my mission field to one create an environment for healing. So, I create an environment where they can enjoy being there. So, you know, I tell my my staff this like make it like cheers. When somebody comes off the elevator, we want to be glad to see them. So, let's say, "Hey, Norm," you know, whatever their name is. It's like, we want to welcome them in. We want them to be glad to be there, and we want them to know that we're glad to see them. We also want them to be glad to leave, too, because we want them to feel better, feel like they got a workout, and then they're heading out, right? >> Um, but yeah, when when I talk with people, one one of the my favorite thing to do is evaluations with folks because it's I get to dig in and figure out root causes of things. Um, and oftentimes people do not most, most injuries, not all of them, but a lot of injuries are just cumulative stress over time. They don't know what they've done. Uh, they just know they hurt. Um, and so when I ask them, well, how what'd you do? A lot of times they're like, I don't know. I just woke up and I was hurting and now I've been hurting for three months. Um, so I really enjoy just that aspect of it. But in the process of doing that, I get to know these folks. >> Yeah. um and getting to know them personally and and different than a doctor that maybe you'll see you once every six months to a year. I've seen these guys once, twice, three times a week. And so I'm getting to know them. Um and so what I I just try to make that physical therapy clinic a mission field for me to be able to be someone that's encouraging to them u not only along the way physically but also emotionally. And then when there's opportunity, and there are a lot of opportunities, um, injecting some spiritual aspects into that, um, planting seeds, Christian music on in the background, you know, anything and everything I can do, >> Christian metal or >> not quite. >> Well, I mean, if we're doing like a hit workout with somebody, >> I might change it up a little bit. >> Little little for today, little convictions. But no, you brought up Marty Bees. Like I actually want you to talk a little bit about that, Matt, because I mean, so we we we talked about this off air and so we're bringing it back into here, but there are people that are they are solid Christians. They're theologically adept. I mean, they pray for and with their families. Like they're they're worshiped with their hands up falling down the aisle, people like all all the signs. All right? They got good fruit coming out of coming out of every orphice, but they suck at work, right? they're a terrible employee or they're a crappy business owner or their product or service just isn't really up to snuff which is uh anapologetic as well. How you work and the type of employee you are is indicative of kind of what what you believe because if you crush it everywhere else but then you're you know a slugard at work like that's not good either. But, you know, we were talking about Marty Bees and you know, you can kind of get into the story of him, but man, you want to talk about apostle like he is a scent one, but he's creating a space for people to be sent to, right? Kind of almost creating that. So, I I'd love to have you talk a little bit about him. >> Yeah. I think it's important to note for people that are listening to this like Christianity didn't become the global force it is, you know, from this small group of people in, you know, in in biblical times to 2.38 billion people worldwide through charismatic blue check preachers. It it came in the everyday faithfulness of men and women in neighborhoods workplaces and and places where people gather, whether that be a CrossFit gym or a jiu-jitsu gym or a the gospel is spread through ordinary, mundane, faithful proclamation where God planted us. This is the whole point of the mission of God that that everybody listening to this has been uniquely wired by God. That's Psalm 139, which that wiring actually sent you in a specific direction. You know, there are spreadsheet spreadsheet people and non-spreadsheet people. And that that probably you probably came out of the womb that way. Yeah. >> Right. people who are real particular and people who are a little bit more, you know, rightrain artistic and um your career path is going to more than likely come out of that natural bent which um Psalm 139 says God wo into you which is going to lay open a specific kind of career for you which is going to put you in a domain of society and that domain of society is going to put you in a specific kind of neighborhood depending on that bent and and where you ended up in those domains of society and and all of that according to David in Psalm 139 um is that because God had given good for us to do before a day had yet been lived. So all of that kind of unique wiring was put in place so that we could push back darkness and establish light. And not everybody's kind of a charismatic extrovert. That doesn't matter. You've been uniquely wired. And then Acts 17, Paul's going to argue, you've been uniquely placed. That the times and boundaries of our habitation have been set by God for what reason? So that men might seek him and find him, though he is no far from any of us. So, how do I know he's not far from your neighbor? Because you're there. >> Yeah. >> How do I know that God might be really into saving your coworker? Well, because he put you there. How did I Why did I believe that some of the guys that I train jiu-jitsu with were going to become Christians? Because that's the gym I joined. And I'm coming to that gym with the light of the gospel. I'm there to learn jiu-jitsu, and I'm there to pray for people, to be a Christian while I'm there, and to share the good news of the gospel where I have opportunity. And that's going to be true for all of us. Then you throw in the unique gifting that Paul writes about in Corinthians, the spiritual gifts. Now, everybody listening to this, whether they're a trash guy or a lawyer or in the seauite of a Fortune 500 company, has been uniquely wired, uniquely placed, and uniquely gifted for such a moment as this in history. And so, Marty's been a longtime member of our church, Marty Bryan. and he built a wildly successful restaurant concert venue space out in Bartonville uh between Flowermound and Argyle and he um man he just leverages that whole thing for the kingdom of God. Uh once a month he has a church's worship team come out and do a night of worship. does a men's Bible study, does a women's Bible study, draws hundreds of people, both churched and unchurched, and and then every June he just got so frustrated with Pride Month that he he went the opposite way with it where where June at Marty's is like faith and freedom and family and and they just celebrate family. So he shows kids movies out in the concert venue if you got kids with you. there are discounts and he just prioritizes what God prioritizes faith and family and and this idea of the nuclear family unit as the Bible understands it and and so this is Marty pushing back darkness and establishing light not my preaching per se like I've never heard him get up on stage and preach uh but he is a brilliant businessman he he is uh just an exceptional. He he kind of found the magic line between quality and cost and hospitality and and everything he opens. Everything he touches turns to gold. But the underlying purpose of all of that for Marty is the kingdom of God. And you just watch him live his life and it's just so evident that he understands that he's been uniquely wired by God. He's not called to vocational ministry. It's not where his gifts lie. Now, could his gifts >> be used for really good things inside the wall? Absolutely he could. He would probably be miserable. Like, he needs to be out there shaking hands, starting businesses, starting restaurants, being the face of those restaurants, making people feel welcome, experience true hospitality, and and feast. You know, I think Ecclesiastes says like 12 times, good food, good wine with good friends is a holy thing. And and he's creating those kind of spaces. We are a better area because Marty be's faithfulness to live into what God had for him and not be in vocational ministry than had he gone to vocational ministry. That's me guessing. But >> well, and I mean, when I talk to people that are like because if someone has like an adult experience with the Lord, right? So they're maybe they didn't go to church or they were kind of church. They had kind of understood the language of church and then they be become a convert as an adult. Some people think like oh everything needs to change. Like you talk about story like you started wearing corny Christian t-shirts when you became a Christian and you're you know you're burning all your secular CDs or at tracks and then you're like kind of going back and you're like okay I need to like figure out like what I need to do. And you just try to you try to go way overboard. You're like no I need to quit my job working at this law firm uh because you know I got to give my life to the Lord. It's like, no, you missed some steps in there. And it is about placement, right? And we're all placed in an area. And again, the you're on varying locations on the spear, right? >> Because the spear that you can say that's a church or whatever, there are people that are on the tip of the spear, right? So pastors, if they're doing it, it right on the tip of the spear. I've talked about before like this show and the darkness that, you know, I expose myself to so I can help you push back against that darkness when you recognize it. You're kind of at the tip of the spear. But the thing is is when you do something like the forging table, when you do something like my Dominion program where I'm like coaching guys and all that, I'm kind of bringing y'all up to the tip of the spear a little bit and you're getting a little bit of a hint as to kind of what that looks like on a on a macro scale. The same thing happens in ministry. You and I have talked about it, talked about it with Joby, talked about it with some other pastors to where it's just like it can be really really rough. But that's what you were called to do. Like I love when Joby said he decided to go into vocational ministry that he he prayed to God, "Don't lighten my load, broaden my shoulders." Yeah. >> Well, you were built from the beginning to have broad enough shoulders to do what the Lord needs you to do. >> Now, you can walk in unrepentant sin and kind of destroy your own calling in a lot of different ways. Uh you could lose your calling and be called to something else because you didn't do your part of it. But it's that that old adage of God can move mountains, but he needs you to bring a shovel kind of a thing. So, it's like, yeah, could God snap his fingers? He wouldn't even need to snap his fingers. It would just be whatever he would want it to be. But that's just I think it's a mindset shift that a lot of guys need to get into >> and and a lot of like you you don't want someone else's calling. You want yours. >> You want your race. >> You would be a cheap version of whoever that is you're looking at and going, "Oo, I I want to do that." But you would just be a cheap version of that. >> And and you you need to be fully you and who God made you and own that. And maybe you're not ever going to be tip of the spear. It's okay. You're part of the spear. >> That's right. Well, and some, you know, some people, they they break out physically like to think about getting up on stage and talking like they have physical signs of how terrifying that is to them. >> Well, I mean >> that what a blessing that is to that person that they understand that like, you know, they're not wired that way. >> Yeah. >> You know, and where you are like I imagine like this, you know, God put you where you are. If if you became a Christian later in life, you know, you've established roots. Well, if if you sever the plant from the roots, you know, you don't know if that like how well that that plant will survive. >> Your roots are your testimony. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like I'm I'm telling you about where I've been and all of that and and how much more impactful is that if it's in the area where you are? It's it's like it's like these people in Paul and you talk about Paul and at the at at the stoning of Steven and then showing up at at the church of Antioch going from Saul to Paul and I'm sure a lot of the people were like, you know, they're scooting down the aisle being like, "Bro, I know that guy." You know what I mean? Um but but that much more powerful of the power of Jesus Christ to in in your life where, hey, I know the roots that dude's got and to see the fruit that his life is now producing. Jesus is the only reason that's possible. >> Well, and Dan, so I I love the way you describe that with roots because in my Dominion program, I have six pillars of a Dominion man. One of them is direction over vision. Vision's good. Direction is just better because you have these people that, you know, maybe they'll read the latest self-help book or maybe they'll go to a conference or maybe they'll listen to a sermon and then they're like, I've received a vision from the Lord and it's to do the exact opposite of everything that I'm doing right now and to just completely uproot my entire life and family. But the thing is is when you have been given the blessing of deep roots in an area or a business or a whatever thing and then you get a vision cuz you watched a YouTube video and then you yank up the plant you with the roots and then you try to replant it somewhere else. Well, the root system has to kind of start all over again. >> And it's like again I'm okay with vision but with a lot of people it's like we need to soberly evaluate whether or not God is changing your direction. Right? Because I I use the example like if I were if a helicopter were to pick us up today and try to fly us to the to Bush Stadium in St. Louis, there's a heading you could be on where you could get a little bit left, a little bit right, but eventually you're going to see the arch and then you're going to find the stadium and boom, you're going to be able to land there, right? But if you just kind of go and you're like, I'm just going to start flying that direction and we're going to end up at Bush Stadium. It's like no, like you have to have a direction that you're heading and who is going to establish your steps? Is it going to be you every time or are you just going to go and say, "God bless all of my decisions because I got this." It's like, man, that's kind of a dangerous place to be. >> Well, and it's so much more natural. We we know when people are being authentic. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and there there is an attractiveness to that. I know when I get up or or when I hear someone speak or or you know, when I'm when I hear someone worship, lead worship, like there's some people that come to mind. Uh Brad Kilman is a guy I went to college with. When Brad Kilman leads worship, man, the Holy Spirit is is leading Brad Kilman through worship. >> And then I've got other people who have thought they probably participated in worship, got a guitar at a pawn shop, learned how to play the guitar, and imagined themselves in the position of worship leader, and it is just not working. >> Not the same. >> You know what I mean? It's like that was oh yeah we did we did verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus four times and now we're going to like but it I didn't feel the stirring in my heart like there when we all operate as parts of the body you know hands and arms and legs and feet like that that is um that is beautiful it's not as there are there are some some things that look more attractive that we would love to be able to say well I could get up and speak and lead and say some great things that make people laugh. Or I could I could play guitar and make make people just just feel like flood them with emotion of the Holy Spirit and prepare them to hear the word of God spoken, >> but that may not be your role. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> when it may not be your role, and you mentioned like the blue check mark preachers or whatever, you know what some guys are called to do? lead a congregation in a small town of 30 people and love those people and be there when babies are born and bury the people whenever they pass and all that >> and they're not meant to to write books and they're not meant to speak at conferences and maybe they don't even have a desire for that. >> That's 90% of pastors. >> Oh, yeah. and and just think about the the flock and and again, yeah, there's there's a lot of great churches within within 829 and then of course we got a great relationship with church 1122 and Joby and what they're doing, but everyone's called to what they're called to. That's right. And you brought up earlier, so you train at double five uh with Fermiga down there in Dallas. Just a tremendous gym. But there's a couple of guys you train with. So Isaac Tua EA and Ryan Kramer. So they're the guys that help run Jesus and jiu-jitsu. And they're very subtle in their their marketing. So, the rash guards say real big. Jesus in jiu-jitsu on the front, so there's no confusion. Uh, yeah, real clever. Um, but those are guys that are Ryan's a black belt and uh Isaac is a brown belt. >> They both take training seriously. Uh, they have athletic backgrounds that they've continued uh as uh as they're aging. They're good family men. Y, >> but there's no there's no um confusion as to why those men train and comport themselves in the way that they do >> because you could be wearing the Jesus and jiu-jitsu rash guard and then you get tapped by a lower belt and you go storming off the mat throwing your stuff and cussing the gym and I'm never going to effing do this again and what that that type of thing. It's a bit problematic. But the way these guys carry themselves, the way they teach others, uh, the way they help people, and I mean, for Miga himself, like >> being able to have guys like that there and to not feel like an infiltration, but like it's a welcome addition to what you're doing there. And you were just mentioning last night when we were hanging out on the porch, like how many guys from Double Five have been baptized since you started training there and since those guys? >> Yes, we've got to be getting close to I mean, I'm I'm hoping double digits here soon. I mean, I know we just did three two weeks ago, and like this morning after the morning roll, there's 20some guys that just went over to this guy named Johnny Walker's place. And um they're just sharing their testimony and reading the Bible. And so, there's this there's been this like mini revival breaking out at Double Five that's been so fun. like a guy named Will Tate, uh, who I'm not sure you've met yet, but um, he he was there that Saturday night, but Big Isaac Kramer, but but even guys like JP Dentl, there's a guy named Steven Little, like these guys are just deeply, they had a profound encounter with Jesus like three or four years ago, just all came back completely different men and they've been on it, man. And so the the number of guys right now that are coming back to church or coming to Christ or just moving towards other men for vulnerable, honest relationship, moving towards Jesus. It's been a long time since I've been caught up in something quite like that. >> And man, you can just feel it when when you go into certain places and and you can just see something like that happen. And you know, you talk about your king's table all the time. I use uh the term foxhole. Joby talks about Matt carriers, Matt toers. So, um, everyone's kind of got that guy maybe in high school or college or maybe even at your workplace that if y'all need something fun to do, a fun activity. This person knows the funny movie. They know the funny board game. They know the thing. They're kind of that person. They're they're a goofball. They're tons of fun. Your life's falling apart at 3:00 in the morning. You're not calling Goofy Pants. You're not calling that dude, right? >> And so, same thing in a jiu-jitsu gym. you have, you know, you have everything from, you know, uh, the trash guy to the to the surgeon, right, that are there and then, you know, different guys. So, it's like, oh, you know, my FFL that, you know, every time I transfer a firearm, like I train, I train with him. There are guys that are physical therapists. There are guys that are in sales. There are guys that are doing taxes. There are dentists. There are all kinds of things at our gym. And so, ah, my tooth's kind of hurting. I know who I can go and chat and talk with, right? But when your life is falling apart, again, the scenario that I usually open all my talks with, I I know it's kind of cheating, but I have everyone close their eyes because I want them to feel what I'm describing. I'm like, "Guys, it's 3:00 in the morning and your life is completely falling apart. Maybe it's because u you know, one of your kids went prodal. Maybe it's because you you lost your job and your nest egg and you're thinking bankruptcies next." Uh maybe you found some text messages with your wife and another guy and you're like, "Oh no, what's happening?" Like whatever your scenario is, create your scenario and your life's falling apart. Who are you calling? And the thing for most men is the answer is no one cuz they have no one. Cuz they bought into this American machismo lie that the lone wolf survives. Well, watch Nat Geo dudes. You know what happens to lone wolves? They die, right? Even the alphas when they age out of the pack, they die alone. They either freeze to death, starve to death, or they're killed by another animal. Sometimes some of the wolves that got them out of the pack to begin with, right? But we buy into this idea that we can do it, that we are enough, that if we just say these affirmations in the mirror that we can do this on our own. It's just not true. And so when you have a Isaac or a Ryan or a Matt or a somebody at your gym and your life's falling apart, >> guess what? You just give them a call. Yep. JP Denell, like you heard him get maybe share his testimony and you see what Jesus has done in his life. Your life's falling apart. You're not calling the goofball. You're not calling the guy that's really good at making money. You're not calling the restaurant tour who only is known by how good a sandwich is that he makes. You're calling the dudes that are going to war. And sometimes they going go to war by going to their knees and praying to praying to God. It's just a whole it's a different setup. >> Well, and God knows, right? He's he loves us. And out of his love for us, he he puts guard rails in place because he knows this world is jacked up. And he knows that I need to go if I am faithful and go to church on Sunday and I I sit through, you know, powerful worship, I hear his word preached in a community of believers that that's not it for my week. I need to show up at my PT on Monday and have someone love me to continue like that feeling and that and and to live in that environment. And he loves me enough to provide people with all the different skill sets and all of the and all of the different places that I go to reinforce his message that he loves me. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Thank God that he does that. >> Amen. >> Amen. Well, um, Browning, uh, in between these last two recordings, you said that your prediction was is that in our four hours together, we would be getting through Romans 1:4. I was like, Browning's dumb. Like, we're we're obviously going to clear through that. Guys, we are technically on part two. Are you He's counting up the words here. In two hours, we've got through how many words? >> 11 words. >> 11 words. >> In two hours away. >> Here I was making fun of John Piper's Asberers. And here we are. We're on pace to finish Romans by 2087. And so >> our reason for going slow is a little bit slower, a little different than John's, but it's fine. >> You know, but we're basically the same thing. We're not David, but we are Piper, right? So, right. Right. It's got to come back. I can't believe I just got to sneak in. >> I can't believe it didn't happen in episode one. I would have lost a bet. >> It may happen uh the last two. Did you bet on it? Like how often I would bring up Well, we're going to unhitch and we're going to become David by the end of this whole thing. But guys, we're going to have to leave our discussion of part two of Romans 1:1 and we'll come back next week for part three of Romans uh 1:1. So, make sure you guys make sure you guys are read up uh through that point. Make sure that you you can kind Yeah. Don't fall behind in the reading cuz you'll never catch up cuz you know by next week we will maybe get to 13 or 14 words. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Add an addon to life or missions equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Crossway starter set. That's in the show notes. It's five fantastic books and you can get them all at a discount. Go to the show notes and check that out. Logos Bible Software, best Bible software on the planet Earth. Go there and you can get at a discount. The discount is here in the link in the show notes. And also we are a donationbased ministry. So, if you want to see us to be able to continue to equip men around the globe to push back darkness, hop on board and be a donor. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@unton.life. That's info@undon.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undon.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]