[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Lives is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's Matt. That's Eric. That's Dean. Now, here's the thing. Uh we've been just going a little bit too fast in Romans. I'm just going to be honest. Uh we've already done a couple of hours of recording this batch and we've made it through twothirds of one verse and we're just not really giving the scripture uh enough, you know, enough like it it doesn't feel like it has the gravitas that it should. I don't feel like we're giving it the level of respect. And so we're going to slow things down just a little bit. Uh I got a game here that we busted out uh a few batches ago. I have no affiliation with this organization or company whatsoever. It's called Discernment. what's beneath the Babel from uh Christians like so shout out to this and so here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do a little competition. Okay. All right. >> Matt, you and I are on a team because we are across the table from one another. Browning and Dagan, you guys are on a team. So basically what happens, >> this is just going to be fun or maybe it's not going to be fun and then we wish we would have gotten right back into scripture. So we turn this over. I think that's a 30 second timer. I know people are like, "Oh, you found an hourglass." Yeah, I don't want to turn this over like 120 times. And so basically, let's see what area you draw. Okay. So you So read this out loud. It's one side of the card. What does that say? >> Mo hisses taft. >> Okay. Now on my side it's whatever it actually is, which is Moses's staff, right? And so you try to get it. You just sound it out. Sound it out. Try to get it. Try to get it. And you can ask for a hint, but during our round, you can only get one hint >> on any of those types of things. And if you get stuck on one, you're just stuck saying it out loud like a Okay? And in 30 seconds, it's however many we get as a team. And we just keep like going and you literally pulled up where the white side you're seeing and they're seeing the other side. And then they just have to say it until they get it. >> Well, was this about a hint? >> Well, so so if he's stuck, you can be like, "Just give me the hint." So the hint on Moses's staff would have been once a snake. >> And I can give you the hint, but then you still have to like say it out loud like what is it? What is it? Okay. >> I hope they're not all that difficult. >> Yeah, that there are some in here that are preposterously hard. I was like, I can't read that on the regular side. So, >> I'm good at this. >> All right. So, this is what we're going to do. So, if you wouldn't mind keeping score for us and you're you're keep keep the timer over there. And so, Matt, we just need to be on the same wavelength here. >> I'm trying. >> Okay. So, we need black belt like level like smart stuff. Smarty people pants. Okay. Ready? Are we ready? >> Ready. Go. Go. >> Sith head vin. Go ahead and give me the clue. >> Uh, Paul was caught up in it. >> Third heaven. >> Third heaven. Bam. >> Def. Hall. Go ahead and give me the >> You You lost your hint for this round. >> Oh, I didn't know. >> Yeah, you only get one per round. >> Hall. >> Just keep working it out. Say it out loud. >> I am Diff Hall. Tiff. We're going to get smoked. >> Well, defaul, are you looking at that going, "This makes sense." >> No, not really. But you get it. You're You're saying it. >> Imagine if you were like >> an underwhelming intellectual power as a teenager living in the country, maybe. And say it like that. >> Defole. Is that a hint? >> Not really. And time. >> The fall. >> Oh my gosh. >> Def. So, the way I've played this is where the guesser isn't reading it like I read it. I'm trying to read the words default and the and you are trying to guess what I'm saying. >> That's easier >> cuz I heard you say that. But so, it's this is going to be more challenging because >> you're trying to >> you're trying to reignite the gibberish >> because if we did it this way, I can say Moses his staff, right? >> Moes his staff. Yeah. He freaking cheated it right now. >> That's why you're so good at it. I was like, I'm so good at this. We're talking trash. I hope you get zero this. >> I regretted saying that immediately. >> All right. I'm going to keep I'm going to keep it. Yeah. So, you show yourself the white side and then I've got the count here. Let me know when you're ready. Brownie, >> I'm ready. >> Dan. >> Yeah. >> Go. Prearch law prearch [Laughter] on this side. >> Tell Televangelists sell them. >> What? >> I hope that's >> prearch. I mean prayarch. >> You got to put these in subtitles along the bottom of the video. >> We'll give you one skip, too. Everyone gets one skip around. We're skipping. >> Prayer club. Sorry. >> Pray. Oh my goodness. Crimson stain. Crimson stain. >> Bam. Got it. On the board. On the board. >> Pharaoh hard dentist. Pharaoh hard dentist. Pharaoh. >> Pharaoh's dentist heart. Pharaoh. Hardened hard. Pharaoh's hardened heart. There it is. No. No. No. >> Close. Pharaoh hardened his heart. >> Yes, we're winning. >> Commanding lead. >> Great high priest. Great high priest. >> Time. >> Wow. Wow. >> Sounds ridiculous. >> Right. And I >> What was that first one? >> Prayer cloth. >> That would never mean cloth. >> That's the thing is on this side. You're saying it over and over. It's just not computing in your brain. >> I don't like the way we're playing this. >> All right. Well, cuz we're playing it the right way. Okay. >> Bet you don't. >> All right. So, Brown and keep score. So right now, let's just get an update. Is a commanding lead >> of two to one. So I get one hint and one skip. So >> gang face go >> testimony. Testimony. Yes, >> dude. >> Dude, nailed it. You guys suck at this game. Uh low reinde. >> Let's go. Let's go. >> Okay. Uh Zipro's parody go spill. Zip Ros parody gauze spill. Prosperity gospel. Dang it. Okay. Uh, bore enough of Hergen. Borough enough of Hurjan. Born of a virgin. >> Dude, >> dude, I want to roll. I want to hear. Rust heads. Hondas Avente. Rust head. Hondas Avente. >> Come on. >> Uh, hint. >> Sabbath. >> Uh, Rust head. Hondas Avente. Rustadente. Rust head. Skip. Oh shoot. Uh, nor whom induhen nor whom endhen nor whom end? Norman Hinden. Is someone named Norman? Norman time. >> No room in the end. >> No room in the end. What was he? What was this one? Russ >> rested on the seventh day. Sabbath. >> That says Russ head Honda's event. >> How many did I get? >> Three. >> I think you got three or four out of four. What? Four. >> You got four. All right. So, we got five. We got you guys. Okay. >> And then these were two we >> All right. two losers. All right, Dan. Now's your time. Mr. I'm great at this game. >> I'm good at the other way. >> Prove it. >> I believe you are. >> Oh, ready. Go. >> Marov the beast. Mark of the beast. >> Boom. >> Easy peasy. Let's go. >> Wallace off his cherry. Go. Wallace off Sherry go. Wallace of Sherry. Well, the the the walls of Jericho. Thank you. Yeah, that's a good one. >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, no. >> Uh, salt of Seaharth. Uh, salt of salt of the earth. >> Zt off dayb bed. Zt off dayb bed. Zt off daybed. ZT of JZ. JBZ. ZT of Jbed. ZT of debed. >> What's the hint? >> Bethlehem. >> City of uh city of David. >> Boom. >> Uh steep vendor martyr. Uh Steven the martyr. >> Right on. >> Degrade flood. The great flood. >> Yes. >> Gosh. >> Time. >> You are good at this. >> Even done legally. >> Even not cheating. All right. So, what's the score? So, you got six there. So, it is 8 to five. But we're doing a second round, okay? Because you know, Matt, he just can't leave >> uh with with that performance from the first one. So, but you know, he was he had to go first. It was I wasn't really setting him up for success here. >> I really just made him feel better. >> Yeah, >> it is fascinating to see what they're sounding out and like you're right there. It's like, bro, you're saying >> Walls of Jericho. It's just like, no, just say it normal. Like, don't say it like a weirdo. >> All right, I need you here. >> I know. I'm going to do my best. >> Dan on you. >> Ready? Go. >> Fur. [Music] No way that this is what I get. >> You just said it. >> Fur. >> Give me the hint. >> I am one of them and so are you. >> Father Abraham had many sons. >> Wow. >> Tood news. Tood news. Dang it. >> Oh no. >> T good news. We need you, Matt. >> I'm terrible. I'm sorry. T good news. >> Get one. Skip. >> Skip it. >> It's the good news. >> Oh my gosh. Mary he Magdalin. Mary Magdalene. >> Thank you. >> Green tea ornate boore. Green tea ornate boore. My gosh. and >> greedy >> time time. Greet your neighbor. >> Oh my gosh. >> We get that one and t good news. >> Gosh, the good news. >> We need like topics on this. >> Well, >> categories. >> All right, we need Browning to really crap the bed on this one. >> All right, Browning. >> What is it? >> What's the score? >> You're up eight to seven right now. But >> hey, we're still We got a puncher chance. >> We do got a puncher chance. And if we lose, I will start punching. So, uh, that's just how that goes. All right, ready? Go. >> Loistip loistip lo. You sound Scottish. Loip the ship. Ships. L. Lawst lawst. >> Dang. Give me the hint. >> The one. >> That is not that terrible. That pass that >> will help burn them both. >> All right. That hen pulled eggs. [Laughter] That that pulled eggs. That pull that hen pull eggs. >> Am I saying it? That >> you're actually not even saying it. You're not even close. >> Eggs. That hen pull eggs. >> Sounds like what we just had for lunch. >> That den pool eggs. >> I am not going to get this. You can't skip it. >> That in pull eggs. That in pull eggs. That in that in pulls. >> This is terrible with my time. >> Oh my gosh. >> That is a zero. >> The 10 plagues. >> The 10 plagues. >> The one close loss. >> The lost sheep. >> Lost sheep. >> The one. >> Dude, that's a terrible terrible terrible wins. It's like level eight. >> That is a terri. They're all the same level. Okay. Now problem is we've still got a puncher chance. from his Rainman here gets to go again. >> Boy, he already said this. He's played this before and he's played it from the cheater side. Okay, so like you know, he's already gone through these several times but >> I'm not deterred. This is Rocky 4. We're taking you out. Okay, >> three on you. Two, one, go. >> Primarate all cowins. Primarate all cowins. Primary counseling. Premarital counseling. >> What in the world? Uh, debt roof wheels etch hoofury. Debt roof wheels etch hoofury. Uh, debt roof. Debt roof wheels etch hoofury. Hint >> John 8:32. >> Oh, >> okay. Uh, debt roof will just skip it. Dang it. I needed that one. Uh, not two days 810. Not two days 810. Not not two days 810. >> Not >> I agree. Not today. Not today. Not today. Uh, ahead. GIF protection. Uh, something hedge of protection. Dang it. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Uh, woman of cod. Woman of cod. Woman of woman of cod. Woman of cod. Woman >> time. Woman of god. >> Woman of cod. No, it says woman of cod. She's a woman of fish, which has a lot of different meanings. >> The truth will set you free. >> No, that's not what it It said debt roof wills edge hoofery. >> Okay. >> The tr what? So >> what do we got? >> So it's eight to 10. >> We need >> So this is this is where like I just can't go over. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just don't. >> You got to get three. >> Three for the win. >> And then everything else is just butter after that. >> I'm so nervous. >> Read my eyes. >> All right. No, don't. >> What does that mean? That's really creepy. Timer's going. Just kidding. Just kidding. All right. I just wanted to create some anxiety. >> All right. Here we Oh, Don, what's that? >> Ian Dove Millenn uh land of milk and hunter. >> Just hand it to him. >> To our huff pebble. Twoour huff pebble to hint. >> Reaching into heaven. >> Twoour huff pebble. >> Reaching into heaven >> to our to our huff pebble. >> Skip the tower battle. Uh, fib burning push. The burn burning bush. >> Come on. >> Stir off pedal ahem. >> Oh my gosh. >> Stir stir stir stir off petal ahem. Stir off petal ahem. Stir of stir. Stir of I have no idea. >> Stir off. Stir rough pedal. >> No. >> Stir. Stir off. Pedal aim. Stir off his eyes. Stir off pedal and star Bethlehem. >> Dang it. >> We did it. That was >> Oh, just my eyes. That's what he said. >> Stir up. >> What's funny is I'm reading. I'm like, "Yeah, he's going to get this." >> I had I had no clue. I had Tower Babel immediately. [inaudible] it. All right. Well, nicely done. Nicely done. >> Good job. for that. Good job. You managed to somehow overcome Browning's over. Browning, you got won in two rounds. >> Yeah, it's not good. >> It's not your best moment, but okay. Well, there's your little bit of uh comic relief. So, you know, after lunch, we kind of, you know, the energy level can go down just a hair. So, we got to like counteract that a little bit. But, if you were here with us for the last couple weeks, we are in Romans now. And technically, we are still in Romans. We'll set that there. You guys should sell some more of those. Shout out to Christians like. But yeah, we have been in Romans 1 for two weeks. Not just Romans 1. Romans 1:1 >> 1. >> So I I I believe today we're going to turn the corner. >> Uh and get to where? The third part of the first verse. >> Yes. But >> to part of the first verse, I know what you're saying. Tur part. All right. This is great. Uh so yeah, we're going to go and get to the third part because in the first verse, if Matt, if you will go and give that to us again. Verse one. >> I'll do it. Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God. >> So, we've talked about servant, what that means, dulos in the Greek and being a slave uh to Christ, being purchased by him. And then we we spent a lot of time talking about criteria of an apostle and you know, as as an apostle, you're a sent one. What does that mean to be sent out? We spent a lot of time really talking about that last week. So, you guys make sure that you are listening along with everyone. But there's that third part of that verse, set apart for the gospel of God. And again, if you're approaching the scripture in a way where I again, like I do, it's highly conscientious get done type guy, you just burn through stuff and you just, oh yeah, it's just the greeting. And so I'm just going to skim these first seven verses and get through it. And there's just so much theological depth here with what we're seeing. And even in that first verse, we're on the third part of the first verse because of so much that is here. And even, you know, I guess you could say four different parts because as Dan pointed out, him just calling himself Paul. He's not just saying his name. It's like, no, he's a he's a new creation. But Matt, you know, in terms of set apart for the gospel of God, let's start breaking that down. >> Yeah. Well, the the good news about my confidence in getting out of verse one is to define gospel of God requires us to go to verse two. Because gospel of God is unique here in the book of Romans. this this isn't this gospel of God phrase isn't really anywhere else in the New Testament and and so he's going to define the gospel of God as he moves into the next verse. So we see that God keeps his promises. So that's part of the good news of God that God has fulfilled his promises. Which promises uh those Old Testament prophets or those old testament promises given through the process or through the prophets and how is it fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ. So the good news of God, the gospel of God is that God keeps his promises that he gave through the prophets uh in the scriptures concerning his son Jesus Christ our Lord. So that's a throwback to say Jeremiah 23:5, Isaiah 11:10 that that's really telling us that the son of God will come through the line of David. And and so what we see on one again this whole thing remember from the beginning is god centric. And so the good news of God I is that God has kept the promises that he's made to Israel through given through the prophets and the law in the coming of Jesus Christ the son of God as a descendant of David. That's the good the fulfillment of the promises to Israel have been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ, the son of God, through the line of David. So that's the good news of God. >> And I think right here as well, okay, set apart. So essentially that means you're segregated, right? You're you're segregated from other people that are doing other things. And essentially, you know, he is possessed in a way. He's not like possessed like demon possessed but he is possessed by God in a way to where it's like you are going to proclaim this gospel and as as you point out in these subsequent verses we are going to see that gospel uh pointed out but for you guys anything else on that that last part of verse one there. >> I I've got some things. So, you know, when I I see Paul say that he was set apart, you know, in in Galatians, and I think Matt mentioned this in an earlier episode where Galatians he talks about he was set apart before he was born. Um, you know, that means that, you know, before Paul was born, God had set him apart. Well, bo, you know, Paul, as Saul spent a tremendous amount of his life far from God's will, thinking thinking ignorant of what God's will for him was. he thought he was doing the right thing, right? Um, according to Jewish law and and and and so he thought he was in the right. So, it was kind of an act of of ignorance on his part and persecuting Christians and, you know, he he never I don't know that there's ever documented that he murdered, but he was certainly complicit to murder, you know, I mean, holding >> almost like mafia dawn type thing, >> right? Approving it and showing approval and and and hunting Christians down and and persecuting them and and imprisoning them and all that. actually ask a question on that before I lose it. Don't lose your train of thought. But Matt, I was going to ask you about this because we had a a debate when we were going through Acts. Right before they um executed Steven and they all took off their coats and laid it at the feet, >> whenever I read it, it almost felt like the introduction of a mafia dawn in a mafia movie to where he was sitting there and he had so much power that they were all, you know, laying their their cloaks or coats down at his feet like, you know, go and do my bidding. But the mafia don never gets his hands dirty. Like he would never whack a guy. But then some of the other guys at the table were like well no. It was almost like he was like an Aaron boy. Like here hold our jackets or whatever. And I was like I don't I didn't get that at all. So like what is >> No, I don't I think you're probably right in that one. Them laying their cloaks at like the the Hebrew of Hebrews as he calls himself circumcised on the eighth day of the tribe of Benjamin in regards to the law faultless. This is Paul's resume, Saul of Tarsus' resume. Like, he's an upandcomer. He He's already big time. He He's already kind of set for life, which makes his gospel ministry all that more intriguing to me that he was going to trade in all that influence, all that wealth, all that power that he he was already being considered and given by the Pharisees of his day. An immense amount of respect. the a student uh a disciple of kind of their big hitter of the time. So he was the upandcomer that there's no way he was some Aaron boy. He was seen as the guy that's gonna have all the power as soon as Gllia dies. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Well, and just like any other good mafia movie, like if you choose to go straight, you put a target on your back. >> Yeah. Right. >> We'll go into you finish your point. Sorry. That's that was important. >> So So he set apart before he was born and then what that tells me is that you know God let him go. >> Yeah. let him go his way, right? Like it this isn't a story of like God like, you know, leaves the 99 to go get the one. It's like, well, the one originally found his way away and God let him do that. I think there are a lot of people that grow up in rough homes or situations. They have their backstories are tragic. Um, and they they come to Christ later in life. And and I would imagine that they would all agree like, I wish I would have known Jesus sooner. >> Yeah. >> Like who who wouldn't say that, right? Who wouldn't, you know, I I was baptized when I was eight. Who wouldn't want to say I was baptized when I was seven, right? I grew up in a Christian home. People don't, but they always look back and think, gosh, I I wish I would have known Jesus sooner. >> But what this tells me is that like the every part of your life is part of God's plan for your life. The part before you knew him and the part since, right? And and and so is Paul. And you look at like what a what a big picture of that. And as far as you can be from him that his timing and his plan for you is perfect. The time that he reached out to you is perfect. The the the day that he showed up to Paul on the Damascus road was the day he was ready to reveal himself and his truth to Paul. >> It didn't it didn't diminish. He didn't he didn't >> you know he said he did say you know why do you persecute me? he called him out for what he was doing. But >> um that pivot point was purposeful >> and so is yours and so is everyone's. And so it it's like even though we are set apart and God knows that there is a day where I'm going to come get you. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't it you know you can't look back at at your life before Jesus and and regret or wish it away. Well, and there's a there there's something here that I think is super important, and that's God's ability to weaponize against the enemy what the enemy actually means to destroy you with. Uh, and so for Paul, it was religious zeal. He was going to destroy Saul of Tarsus with ignorant religious zeal. And then Jesus does this kind of divine judo thing where he takes the enemy's plan to destroy Paul >> and he uses the kind of kinetic spiritual energy of that to flip it back over on him. And now that zeal burns hot for the gospel. And this is as a pastor of one location for 23 years, man. I see this all the time. like the people that get in the waters at the village and they're bapt they're baptized and they're sharing their story. And I I always think that in itself is a small miracle that these men and women are standing in front of a couple thousand strangers and telling the most grotesque, filthy, embarrassing part of their stories and how Jesus redeems it. And then nine times out of 10, that moment for me, I can mark in my head that's where they're going to find their ministry. And they have. And so there's this um it's a funny story, but it kind of illustrates the point. There was this woman that and her husband that were baptized, gosh, I I mean reads 19, so this had to be 15 years ago or so. And she got in the water and she talked about how they were swinging and how how damaging that had been to their marriage and their relationship with their kids. And then they but Christ, they they love Christ now. They've surrendered their lives to him. They're walking in uprightness and they were baptized. And then on the way home, Reed was like, "Dad, what's wrong with swinging?" >> I mean, he thought he played swing set. And I was like, "Ask your mom, buddy. When you get home, ask mom. Ask mom what's wrong with it. >> And she'll know. She'll explain this to you." But then, man, that couple have this vibrant marriage ministry now. That's where they feel drawn. that that place of pain, that place where the enemy was going to destroy them, has now been redeemed by Jesus and weaponized against the enemy as the saints know now the pain of that false promise of sin and they can attack and execute against it with great efficiency. And so, man, if somebody's listening to this right now and they've got that thing Yeah. that again we talked about this I think last time where they feel disqualified. They feel well this is too shameful or this is too ugly. I'm saying the power of the gospel I is that Jesus takes those things because Paul like Saul of Tarsus it was shameful. I mean, you even listen to him talk about it years later and and you can feel it in him, right? The chief of sinners, ignorant, right? Persecuted the church, breathing murderous threats. Like he he knows what he was, >> but all that zeal now is pointed in what direction with laser-like focus? The gospel. >> The gospel. He his ability to reason, his ability to dissect and break down false arguments, all of that was being put into him when he was in rebellion against God. And then when Christ saves him, uh again, he judes the enemy's plans. And now all this is so great. This is how I know the devil's such a loser. like even his efforts to destroy us end up getting turned back on him through the power of Christ's resurrection. And so that's why I love people's stories. See, I can almost always go, "This is where your ministry is going to be because this is where your pain was. This is where you believed the promise of sin and it betrayed you and now Christ has given you eyes to see >> and now it's your superpower. And now it's your superower. Your mess has become your message." >> That's right. >> Yeah. That's that's good, >> man. That that basically sums up what I was going to say, but you did it in a much more >> elegant way. Can you just say it again just through your face? >> Well, I just >> Yeah. Well, I mean, can I just when I look at that, what's implied there to me is that he set apart. It's like something he couldn't do, but it was done to him that the old is gone and the new has come. But you're right, like he he had been prepared, though he didn't realize it. It was prepared through pride originally, then flipped on itself into a state of humility, but then strategically he's ready, just like you said, ready for the game, ready to fulfill this calling. Um, so I just wrote down humility. Old is gone, new has come. He He's not He's prepared because God prepared him, but he did it in a in a bad spot so that he could turn it like you said um for God's glory. >> So testing the waters here. Do we move on from verse one or have we >> have we put a bow on it? >> Are we What do we think? What do we What do we think, guys? >> Dean, are you still considering your third page of notes here on this first verse? You good? >> No, I'm ready. I'm ready. >> Okay, guys, we did it >> in the third hour. Moving on. So, Mr. Browning. Yes. >> If you would, let's go ahead and read this is going to be mind-blowing. Verses 2 through 4. >> Okay, we're going to do another three here. So, let's go. >> Oh, hello. 2 through 4. According to the according to the flesh. No, that's not where I'm at. >> No, you're still like no. This is a super subscript or something like All right, here we go. which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures concerning his son who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead Jesus Christ our Lord. So, this is going into what you were saying, Matt. U the reference where he's talking about who was descended from David. Uh we can look at 2 Samuel 7. I'm going to read uh verses 11-16. Second part of 11-16. So, this is, you know, where God's delivering his promise to David. So, the Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you. When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men with floggings inflicted by human hands. But my love will never be taken away from him as I took it away from Saul whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me. Your throne will be established forever. So obviously the Saul here is not Saul of Tarsus. This is King Saul. And the the thing that's that's so interesting about this section, Matt, as as we kind of dig in is it's what you you were talking about. It's like, okay, the gospel of God, which again is not a phrase that that we really see anywhere else in the New Testament, but he's kind of giving you still part of his greeting, but it's still part of the introduction of, okay, servant of Christ Jesus, who is Christ Jesus, you know, set apart for the gospel of God. What is that gospel? We're still getting our introduction into all of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And now what he's doing, if you remember who he's talking to, he he's talking to this church that probably is predominantly Gentiles, but but certainly there are quite a few messianic Jews there, you know, also in this congregation. And so he is educ he's reminding the one and educating the other. This good news that you received, right? That's gospel good news. What is it? Well, God is a promisekeeping God and he's made specific promises to his people and he's kept those in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Where can you read about those promises? Through the prophets of the Old Testament. They spoke of his coming. They spoke of the great and mighty day of the Lord. They they spoke of a king who was to come uh who would reign eternally. He has kept the line of David which he promised to do. And and so he is reminding the Jews and educating the Gentiles that, hey, you guys are being brought into a story that's a little bit bigger than the last decade that you've been brought into it. This thing goes back to the beginning. And he's tying the gospel. Again, this to me is unity of scripture stuff. It's the Bible's telling one story. Uh and that story is about um God's glory revealed in the sun and the redemption of all that was broken in the fall, >> right? And when we talk about um being descended from David, one of the most encouraging things to me about and you know our mutual friend uh now JT English, he had a his latest book is all about this, but it's like people know a lot of stories from the Bible, >> but they don't know the story of the Bible, right? Like they they can't fly over the entire narrative. So they're not reading Ezra wondering how does this somehow relate to the gospel? But just in the line of David, right, which obviously we can go back to the 12 tribes, we go all the way back to father Abraham, but if we just start with the 12 tribes, right? Saul's of the tribe of Benjamin. >> Yep. >> And then you've got David from the tribe of Judah. And in the line between David from the tribe of Judah to Jesus, the lion of Judah, there are murderers. There are rapists. There are Like there all of that's in there. Yeah. >> And so it's kind of like and I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but when people do get baptized at the village, they have to do a video, right? >> Yeah. Well, they share their testimony, >> right? Where they're sharing their testimony, but that's kind of like a requirement of of being >> for sure. We're going to do that before whether or not that gets presented to the congregation. There are things that go into that. >> Fair enough. And so, man, as part of their testimony, it's like, okay, yeah, you got swingers, you got drug addicts, you got people that have been violent, whatever the thing is, it's like, man, you would be a great member of the tribe of Judah, right? You you would be a great person to have in the genealogy >> of the the king of everything. Yeah. Right. And so I that's one of the things that just is constantly comforting to me when I'm whenever I have a bad thought or do a bad deed or I'm surrounded by people that kind of have the same is like well people like that were good enough for this line. Yeah. And God can use those people too in his his redemptive plan. >> Yeah. I've tried to highlight over the years especially for the people at the village that the Bible's actually a really grimy book and that hardly anyone in the Bible could get hired at the village. like they they would flag our HR process so quick and you'd be like, "So, Moses, tell me about this guy you murdered with your hands before we let you run with middle schoolers, you know, and then you you I know you you were super sad about that and you kind of paid for it with, you know, 40 years up by yourself in the mountains, but yeah, but then you freak out several times like in a rage at the people of Israel in the wilderness and you're whacking stuff with your staff and you're like you tell us about these outbursts you keep having. I mean, you can't pick a guy. Jesus is maybe Daniel. About the only two I can name in the Bible that that would clear our HR process. And I think the Bible's intentionally grimy like that because really the story of Christian history is that um God tends to pull from the fringes, those who become his brightest lights. He he pulls from the darkest places, the nastiest places, the griiest places. Which is why I think church should always be and my like my my crew knows this. If it gets too neat and pretty, I don't think we're actually doing what God's called us to do. Like they it there it should always be a little grimy at church. Otherwise, everybody's like a a a Bible somalier where they're like, "Oh man, you smell that Psalm 23?" and that great, but I don't I need somebody that like, oh man, he overdosed in our bathroom or like I to me the story of the Bible is God ransoming, redeeming, and rescuing from the fringes. And a lot of people that many of us would think no way they would ever give their life to Jesus. >> Well, and last year you I mean you you preached at Saturated down there, church 11:22, first night was Jim Bergen. Yeah. And he said something along the lines of is everybody wants uh to minister to the lost until the lost people start showing up and a lot of them are like really jacked up. Like he he had he told the story about how he was in the bathroom like taking a [inaudible] and a guy's in there like basically you know pouring his heart out about you know having samesex attraction and like you know turning tricks and and doing all this kind of stuff. And at some point he's like I really got to get this conversation into the lobby. Like you know we're we're both standing here at the urinal. We're breaking all kinds of man codes here. But it's like, hey, is that the kind of ministry we're going to run where guys that have had samesex attraction that are also like running to gotha at the same time trying to figure out how these two things can coalesce? Yeah. >> Are we ministering to those people? What about, you know, he talked about the stories of these drug drug addicts that were all hanging out on his front porch and all that and he's ministering to those people where they don't feel condemned while at the same time they do understand their level of depravity. It's like, yeah, well, if you're in squeaky clean Edmond, Oklahoma or squeaky clean flower mind, uh, Texas, we just we're we're a lot better at hiding our depravity behind brand new cars and perfectly manicured lawns and mansions. And it's just it's just a different ballgame. >> Yeah. And it and I think we run the risk of looking like whitewashed tombs where on the outside it's like >> we're looking good and the inside we're just completely empty or >> or terrible. Yeah. You know, >> I've got a buddy who's a pastor here in town, and the way that he puts it, I love, and I love that a pastor would say this from the pulpit. Um, but he he says constantly and and consistently throughout um his leadership, I am proof that we need a savior. >> Yeah. >> Like he he admits that to his congregation, right? Like I'm going to mess up because my life proves the need for Jesus. Well, it it wouldn't be very compelling story of like becoming a bondervant to Jesus Christ if if the redemptive piece if the little guy hadn't been redeemed, right? If if you can't redeem the Paul and the and the murderer and the slanderer and all of those things. So, it what we've seen is in David's line is consistent proof of the need. >> Yeah. >> For God's plan to to unravel. >> Yeah. >> What this is just a a question about a pastor behind the pulpit. What at what level um it do you take it as far as like pastoral humility? Cuz at one level you want you got to be up there and be able to be in authority, but at the same time, you know, don't want to be up there and make everybody, you know, you don't want to be discredited because you have, you know, you're wrestling with something or you have wrestled with something like what does that look like? >> Yeah. I I think I would encourage a young guy to build towards that vulnerability over time so that he can train his congregation and how to hear and understand the pastor's vulnerability. Uh I I don't know that I would counsel anyone. Like when I first got to TBC, it was Highland Village First Baptist Church and everything you're describing was stuff we were like people started showing up and they're smoking on our steps. And you know, I had these older men and women still in suits going, "They're smoking on the steps." Or a big one was there was this woman who had come to Christ named Holly who was doing the makeup of strippers at this strip club about 25 minutes south of us. Well, then she started sharing the gospel with the strippers. Well, then they started coming. >> And then I had like these older women and men and and maybe even some younger men and women are like the these women they're dressed like strippers. And I'm like, yeah, cuz they're strippers. >> Yeah. It's not a costume. And yeah, that's not that's and man, we have got to be a place where it's okay to be smoking on our front steps and to be dressed like a a a stripper if you are one in the hopes that they'll come to know the Lord and be transformed by his power. But it's when you start setting up those rules that no, no, no, you've got to come clean that we're now out of the mission of God. And what I've tried to do over the years to answer your question is early on I was probably a little bit more guarded and but but preaching things like it's okay to not be okay. Like that's part of our vernacular. Like every if you go to the village, you know, it's okay to not be okay. God's not going to let you stay there. So I I'm just right out of the gate over and over again going no no there like it's okay if you're not okay, but God's not going to leave you there. And then I would begin to um tell parts of my own story that were shameful or embarrassing and how the Lord ministered to me in that. And and then as we kind of built that culture of vulnerability, honesty, confession, repentance is an ongoing ethic. Then I was able to start working in, hey man, I struggle with this. I struggle with this this week. Man, I really had to wrestle with this passage because my life doesn't line up here. like a little, you know, little dirty secret, you know, to, and I would say this to the village, like sometimes I'm preaching to myself. Like sometimes what you're catching is what the Lord's giving me and then I'm just giving it to you so that you can be with me in conviction so that we might grow together. I'm not so far ahead of you as to be the one. I'm not saying to you like emulate me as I emulate Christ. I'm not I'm going that that's Paul saying that. I'm just trying to like be Paul. Like I I can't get to where he is. But I'm like, look, I'm watching Paul. I'm becoming like Christ, but watch Paul and Christ with me and and let's go there. So I I have just tried over time to create a community where it's okay to not be okay. That I don't want you to pretend. I don't if the there's one thing I just can't let us get to. I is that kind of flower mound. Fred, how are you, brother? I'm great. Praise his name. when your whole world's on fire. So, I'm pleading with the village over and over again, don't do that here. You don't have to do that here. You will not share anything about your life that makes our prayer team or our ministers gasp. You don't have it. We've heard it all. You're not going to experience that here. You will receive the tangible grace of God in your confession of your sin from our people here. And so that that's kind of how I've walked into um trying to be as vulnerable as wise and possible at the village. >> And what a tremendous posture that puts people in because I remember um oh I can say it. So it was uh Ryan Horn's wife, lovely Rachel. Um and it was a friend of Rachel's that um she was trying to minister and share the gospel with this woman. And um I it was either Ryan that mentioned it to us or Rachel mentioned it aloud. She's just like, "I'm having a lot of trouble getting through to this woman because she's always been good." >> Like, she was a straight A student. Like, she sat in the front of class. She got straight A's in school. You know, she married a great guy. She's a stay at home mom now. She's like the perfect, you know, homeschool mom. She makes sourdough. Like, she does all the things, right? Like, she's Pioneer Woman reincarnate. Well, she's still alive. Shout out to Pioneer Woman. We'd love to have you on the show. But, like, >> she she babysat me when I was a kid, by the way. She's from Barnesville, Oklahoma. Drummond. That's a hard flex right there for you. Did she like cook for you? >> Yeah. Her dad was my orthopedist. >> Dr. Bill Smith. >> Time out. I was joking about having her on the show, but I actually mean it now. Can you call her? Can Can you FaceTime her right now? >> I can't. My mom could probably Facebook her. >> Oh, >> you know, we'll we'll we'll work that route, >> dude. Cuz if I'm like, imagine her being here and we're all just eating like chicken fried steak and with a little bit of >> I don't know if you're joking or not. No, I'm serious. I don't know. >> Her younger sister Betsy in middle school is my first crush. She's two years older than me. First crush, Betsy Smith. >> Nope, she doesn't. She has black hair. She's beautiful. >> Okay. >> Not as beautiful as my wife. To a to a sixth grader, an eighth grade girl walking in, Betsy Smith was like all it could be. >> Okay. Well, we need to circle back around on that because I think there might be a good connection, you know, for a pioneer woman in Undaunted Life. But essentially, she was really struggling with sharing the gospel with this woman who didn't feel depraved. And so, I know there are a lot of pastors that listen to Undaunted Life, which I I feel the weight of, but I also just like I'm going to operate how I operate. So, you know, get ready. You're going to hear some stuff. But like, you know, these pastors that on Mother's Day, they make sure that they don't say anything that's going to make the women not feel like they can just float out of the room, right? And then on Father's Day, even though they haven't done anything the last 364 days to equip those men to disciple their families and catechize their children and raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, they love to castigate them in and give them a hard time on Father's Day to where the men leave leave like they did a few rounds with Tyson and the women just leave like floating all the time. But it's the same thing that I run into doing pro-life ministry. I start out by talking about there is therefore now no condemn condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. We'll get there when we're in Romans. But it's like, okay, so can we all take a deep breath here? Because there are women here that have had abortions. There are men here that paid for it or allowed their progyny to be killed. There are grandparents that had their grandbabies killed because they didn't want to have to have an awkward conversation with a buddy down at the golf club or something like that that hey, they're perfect little 15-year-old daughter. It's maybe not quite so perfect. >> And I just it's an opportunity to welcome somebody in to the griiness of what they have, but we have this sanitized western idea of what Christianity is. And church becomes a purity contest of how pure we can be, how pure we can sound, and how often we can raise our hands, and how good our kids do, you know, during during the choir session or something like that. It's just it's it's ugly in the most beautiful looking way possible. It's just fake. >> Yeah. And then, you know, it's this isn't Romans, although there's shadows of it in Romans. This is Galatians, but Paul and Galatians like, you have to repent of your righteousness. Like, it's not just your sin that you repent of. It's your righteousness you repent of because your righteousness I is as filthy rags to the Lord. So in in the case of your friend's wife's friend like she's by what standard is she good? Not by any biblical standard because our righteousness our right relatedness which is what righteousness is to God is broken. It has nothing to do with whether she, you know, was a good girl that made straight A's and went to her married, you know, her wedding night a virgin and she's the perfect stay-at-home mom. That's all like none of that is holy. >> Filthy rags. >> None of it's holy. None of it could be presented to God as an acceptable acceptable sacrifice. Which is why moralism is such a terrible lead foot in gospel conversations. Right? It's about right relatedness. That's what righteousness is. right relatedness to God, right relatedness to self, right relatedness to others, and then ultimately rightre relatedness to creation. That's righteousness. Not it's not a moral configuration. I it's that I am not right with God. And since I am not right with God, I cannot understand myself or define myself correctly. And because I can't define myself correctly, that puts me at odds with almost everybody on my horizontal plane because I need you to validate my definition of myself because I have no sense of self because God, my right relatedness to God has not given me an identity that's unshakable. So now my identity can change year to year, hobby to hobby and and I can completely remake myself by moving towns or changing jobs or buying new clothes or whatever. And and the power of the gospel is that it makes right relatedness. It creates righteousness. That's not a moral configuration. It's a I am related now rightly to God by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ by faith and grace. I understand myself as a sinner who has tried to be his own savior, who has tried to be his own God, who has rebelled against God, but been brought back into relationship as an adopted son. And that cannot be taken from me. All my other kind of uh I'm a pastor, I'm a husband, I'm a dad. All that could be lost. But Matt Chandler, adopted son of God, nobody can take that from me. No one. And then there's this other level of identity that we were talking about earlier. So, not only am I a son of God, but I've been uniquely wired by God. I've been uniquely placed by God. And I've been uniquely gifted by God. There's only one of me. There's only ever been one of me. There only ever will be one of me. And I have been called just like Paul to fulfill the mission that God gave me. It's a specific mission. It is in a specific place in a specific time of God's history. So righteousness and teaching the gospel is right relatedness is the better lead foot in our moment of history than moralism because we're post-truth uh really post everything culture. So what is sin? I'm not saying we don't preach towards sin. I'm saying we preach towards right relatedness. Your relationship with God is broken. And because it's broken, everything else is broken because he's the fuel on which your whole life should function. So if you want to know why you got beef on your horizontal plane, I can track it for you. You have no sense of self, right? And you have no sense of self because you have no sense of who God says you are because truth is not out or out. Truth is not inside of you and fluid. It's outside of you and fixed. And and that's the mess we've got ourselves in. So now this poor woman thinks she's righteous because she's got a moral checklist to check off, but she's not righteous because righteousness can only be given to us by God. >> Well, that reminded me of one of the one of the best parts from Wes Huff being on the Joe Rogan Experience is where they were talking about Jordan Peterson and you know Jordan Peterson, you know, public intellectual. He thinks that uh God's real. He thinks that Christ that Jesus is the son of God. He believes that Jesus rose from the dead but he has not puoed. He has not put his faith in that reality for himself. So for all intents and purposes, he is not a Christian, just a admirer of Christianity in the biblical text. But Wes Huff pushed back on on uh Jordan Peterson saying that, you know, Jesus would have decrieded moralism. Yeah. >> Like because, you know, Jordan Peterson does one of the best jobs I've ever seen from a non-Christian in explaining uh the moral quality of a Christ that is Jesus of Nazareth. Like he can describe it. Yeah. >> But not as a as a believer really. And I thought that was one of the the more important things that Wes Huff was talking about because he tried to draw a delineating point for Joe and the millions of people that would end up listening to that episode to where it's like he didn't say filthy rags, but he's just like this is all posturing. It's all performance-based. And so, but what the reality is is we we can't put our our faith in what we've done. We have to put in the faith of the put our faith in the finished work of Christ, which is right there in the middle of verse four, which is which by the way, just a little thing that people love to hit Trinitarians on. and they're like, it never even says trinity in the Bible. In the first few sentences, in verse one, we have God. In uh verse three, concerning his son, that would be Jesus. And in verse four, in power according to the capital S spirit. So boom, there's your trinity just in a in a few verses. But I want to talk about his resurrection from the dead because for all intents and purposes, that is the center point. Paul in another place in the New Testament talks about like if if Christ didn't raise from the dead, like this is all this isn't worthwhile. We're just like spinning our wheels here. But I have been reliably informed by pastors who will remain nameless. I would never talk about a specific pastor by name on the show that we should maybe unhitch from the Old Testament and just not really have any relation to anything. Um I can't remember the guy's name. Uh I think it anyway it'll come to me. Uh but let's just say you're in Georgia and you've got this outsized ego and you think I'm smarter than the Bible. And you just go, you know what? We only need the resurrection. We don't need the Old Testament, which you know gives us an idea as to what we would even be looking to or a plausibility structure for a savior Christ of any type of thing, a sacrificial lamb or everything, but uh maybe I don't know if you've heard uh any any people mentioning things that sound like that, Matt, but from your perspective as a pastor that believes in the resurrection but also believes the Old Testament is valuable. Uh like what would you say to somebody that's just like, "Yeah, we just we don't need the Old Testament." God. He was mean and angry and he also had long diet tribes about dietary restrictions and you know historical context that don't make any sense. Let's just stick with new age hippie Jesus and who just like loved us no matter what. And then you know we just can go go by that. >> Yeah. Uh I don't know. What do you have? >> Andes. >> Oh, you're doing the game. We're doing discernment. >> It says Andes Tanley. Andes Tan. It was Andy Stanley. I'm so good at this game, >> man. You You're even a writer now. >> We're framing this. >> This should be a new card. >> Okay. Bam. I'll I'll write it in. >> You've you've already mentioned it once and so you you said that that Well, I think you you were talking about JT English who's just a superb human being, but he um he he was saying they know the stories of the Bible, but not the story of the Bible. And I know what we've done here is a poor model of this and we haven't kind of poked at it a little bit, but we're doing a great job of just almost going word by word through this, but I think it would serve everyone listening to try to do what I think Nathan Pinocchio calls the shred. And and that's where he's trying to read the whole Bible in 30 days. He and it's like a couple hours a day of just reading it, reading it, reading it. Because what you're going to find is the 66 books of the Bible are telling a single story. And because we we I hope you're in a place that does good ex Jesus, you can lose that at times or you can think only your pastor can see those like real cool kind of connections in the Bible. But hopefully your pastor's seen that because he knows the story of the Bible. you you don't have the story that is the good news of God without the Old Testament. I mean, Paul here is going back to the Old Testament to explain how Jesus is the good news of God. And so, the New Testament wouldn't support unhitching the Old Testament. The New Testament's actually building off. And most of the time in the New Testament, when it's referencing the scriptures about Jesus, it's referencing the Old Testament. like all scripture is God breathed is not about first Timothy it's about Genesis right the to the end of the Old Testament and so that that's a it's a weird little kind of thing that's happened that the Old Testament God's different than the New Testament God that's not even true uh I mean just you don't have to dig too far in Acts before people are just being killed for for trying to steal God's glory in front of the brand new church like they Like so the ground opens up and Kora and all them are but then Ananas and Safh are trying to lie and say here here's all the proceeds from this sale of land >> and then what happens they drop dead both of them. Yeah. >> And and so he's not different. He's one and you'll see all kinds of grace in the Old Testament if you'll just actually read it >> as a book. And so I I just would encourage if you've never tried to read the Bible in 30 31 32 days, >> get after it and it will there will be things that jump out of the Bible for you that you've never seen before because you're in Exodus for two months and then you're in Right. So that that would be my encouragement. >> Or if you're bouncing back and forth reading a psalm a day and reading Matthew 2 or something like that. >> Yeah. I I remember reading Genesis 15 and finally understanding the gospel through Genesis 15 because you have the tension between law and love. >> Yeah. >> Um and when when God asks Abraham to create that uh they're going to have that covenant, you know, so he he lays it all out and then he doesn't call him Abraham to walk through that. God goes through it and then that's kind of the end. Uh and and I it didn't really make sense to me until u I think it was I was reading Keller or something like that and and then it dawned on me God was saying that he's going to take both sides. So if if I don't uphold my end God says then may I be cursed and killed and if you don't uphold your end may I be cursed and killed. And that's exactly what happened through Jesus. Yeah. And it you know it bridged that gap between God's love and God's law. Well, and I think I think if you if you don't read it as a whole story, I think human nature would you would start segmenting the Bible into the places where you feel comfortable. Yeah. >> Right. Well, conviction doesn't come from comfort. >> No. >> Right. >> So, it's it's it's everything together. reading the parts that are the mirror of yourself of where you are seeing you you have to see your depravity to really be able to appreciate you know the gospel like like to see one without the other you know we when we go on vacation I got three kids we go on vacation and we try as much as we can to have vacations be yes can I get ice cream yes like we're on vacation we do can we over here yes but that's not life in the boy house right like if you break rules at at home. If you come home late from curfew, there are consequences for actions. If my kids could choose to live in one mode, it would be vacation mode. >> You know, but that isn't reality. But they appreciate vacation because of the full spectrum of what it means to grow up in my house. >> That's right. Well, guys, uh we are absolutely blazing now. So, not only do we finish verse one, we are done through the end of verse four. I mean, goodness gracious. I think maybe we should slow things down even a little bit more. We'll see how things go next week. But we're going to leave that there. But guys, come back here next week. We're going to pick up at uh verse 4, verse 5. We'll kind of see how we're feeling. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life Mission. Equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Wanted to remind you that we are partnered with the great publisher Crossway. They've got a forging table starter set. There are five books. If you get them all, you can get them at a 50% discount. Go to the show notes for instructions on how to do that. Also, the Logos Bible software. It's a tremendous software. Matt uses it. I think most of us that have sat at the forging table have used it at one time or another. It is an incredibly powerful uh tool that you can use for your Bible study, and it is meant for that. It's not been meant for Bible skimming. It is for Bible study. So, you can do that there. And also, we are a donationbased ministry, and we're so thankful to our donors that we have. But if you want to know how we can get more content like this out there into the ears of guys around the globe that want to be equipped to push back darkness, it's because we have guys hopping in on a onetime basis or a monthly basis to help us out. So please do what you can to consider being a donor. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undantton.life. That's info@undanton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undauntton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]