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1:16
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:21
Let's get into it. Welcome back to The Forging Table.
1:24
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:28
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:31
At The Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by
1:34
digging into God's Word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:38
That's Dagan. That's Eric. That's Matt.
1:39
Guys, today we're digging into Psalm 40. That is Dagan's favorite Psalm.
1:44
I mean, really, when you're looking at a book that has 150 chapters,
1:47
I mean, you can literally just stumble into any of the Psalms and get something of value out of it.
1:51
And before I tee you up, Dagan, the thing that's interesting is each one of these Psalms can
1:54
kind of be broken up into, okay, this group of verses is talking about this or this group of
1:59
verses is talking about that. Very few of them, I feel like I've seen just split like smack dab
2:04
almost like right in the middle. The first 10 verses of Psalm 40 are surrounded around Thanksgiving.
2:10
Okay, but then it's followed up immediately with verses 11 through 17 being a lamentation.
2:16
And so I found that to be very interesting. But, you know, here we are into our third Psalm,
2:20
and this is our third, you know, Psalm from David. And there's lament, there's thanksgiving,
2:25
there's understanding about this. And you know, the next Psalm is going to be very interesting
2:29
in terms of the breakdown as well. But I know for you specifically, because we talked about
2:33
this a little bit off air, the very beginning part of Psalm 40 is very, very important to you,
2:37
right? It is in, you know, Psalm 40, for me growing up growing it to church camp in Canacock,
2:45
there was actually a praise song called Psalm 40. And it was a song written by you two,
2:48
Eric, you might have played that. So, you know, hearing like you two have this kind of worship
2:55
song really around the first couple of verses kind of planted that seed in me, you know,
3:02
as a young kid, and then all the way through. And it's, it really is that first part that I'm
3:06
gravitated to, I kind of see it broken down. There is like an early thanksgiving and a late lament,
3:13
but I, I have kind of seen it in three parts where like verse one through five is praise God
3:18
for all that he's done. Six through 10 is give God all that he asks. And then 11 through 17 is
3:24
trust God for all that remains, right? So it's, it's, it's praise him, give him what he asks,
3:29
and then hey, everything else you don't have figured out, we're just going to trust God
3:33
to, to, to kind of fill in the gaps. But, you know, right out of the gate, you know,
3:38
I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to me and heard my cry like those two lines,
3:43
like I, I can wait, you know, like I think we've been conditioned like there are just times like
3:49
a hurry up and wait. I can wait, but I am not patient, right? And there's a difference between
3:56
waiting and waiting patiently. And, you know, so this is David is, is right out of the gate is
4:04
just addressing like saying, Hey, like, Hey, everybody, like I would sometimes you sometimes
4:08
you wait, like what we've said before on a, on a previous session, we were talking about eager
4:13
anticipation, right? Like, Hey, I'm waiting, but it's waiting in anticipation of the, of the
4:19
knowing deliverance of whatever I'm, I'm crying out for. Yeah, that's Psalm 27 verse 14. Wait for
4:25
the Lord be strong and let your heart take courage, wait for the Lord. And again, yeah, that we
4:29
talked about it waiting being not just waiting, you know, sitting there just fighting your time,
4:33
but yeah, you're eagerly anticipating something's going to happen. Yeah. And so this one, he's like,
4:37
I waited patiently for the Lord. So he's, he's, he is not in anticipation. He is
4:42
sit back and I need to be patient. And that's good for me. Just, just in being a husband,
4:50
being a dad, being a business owner, like patience is a good thing to practice when it's, you know,
4:57
especially when it doesn't come naturally. Yeah, and it's interesting. And Psalms 39 says,
5:03
David says, I will wait. And then the order of that noon, Psalms 40, I, I did wait. You know,
5:09
here's, here's the result of that. Well, then it's, does it seem like to you guys as well,
5:13
I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to me and heard my cry. It's almost like David put
5:20
his posture in, in this patient state. And then it's like, okay, he was able to understand that God
5:25
was inclining him that it's like, okay, God heard my cry, but not because I was patient,
5:29
because God is God and he is just and he loves me. But that, that again, for a guy that has
5:34
literally no patience whatsoever, that's an interesting thing. Like the entire beginning
5:38
of this Thanksgiving was off the back of I waited patiently, which is interesting.
5:43
Well, it's, you know, if you've got a kid and that kid's been put, you know, told to sit some
5:49
place and they are not happy with it, and they know that you will return. But that doesn't mean
5:54
they're happy with where they're at, right? It's, it's, I'm going to continue to cry. And the crying
5:59
is happening, right? David is, is decided to wait. He is, he is, he is acknowledging that he needs
6:05
to be patient in the weight. That doesn't mean that he's going to be quiet or happy with having
6:10
to wait. So it's in that, like, with, with the toddler, you know, if as long as they don't get
6:15
up off the couch and come find you, you know, they're still there waiting and they're being
6:18
patient, but that doesn't mean they're happy about it. So it's like, even in the midst of waiting on
6:22
God, like, you know, cry out and let him know constantly and, you know, fervently, like, what
6:30
is your request and what do you need from him and who is he to you? And then the fact that it's like,
6:35
he inclined to me and heard my cry. It's like, you know, what an awesome picture of, of God, like,
6:42
giving a rats about me, you know, like, hey, I'm going to sit back and I'm going to wait.
6:47
And I'm a whiny, whiny baby, I'm going to wait for whatever. And, and like, that, that who am I
6:54
that God would like, inclined to me. So like basically turn to me and, and hear my cry and, and have
7:02
some type of response. It's like contrast to that is when Saul, King Saul was waiting to go into
7:10
battle against the Philistines and he was waiting for Samuel to come and perform the sacrifice. And
7:16
it said, you know, the Bible says he waited seven days and everybody's getting really anxious. And
7:21
some of those guys are starting to depart. So they are King Saul's like, Oh, hold on. I'll just,
7:26
I'll take care of this, right? So he goes and does his own sacrifice. And then of course, as soon as
7:32
he's done, here comes Samuel, he's like, what have you done? You dummy? You know, and, and then what
7:37
does that lead to? He leads to him having the kingship taken away from him, given to someone
7:42
else. Of course, when I was David, patience or waiting is kind of a theme of David's life.
7:49
Like this isn't the first time he talks about waiting patiently. So literally, he's either
7:53
come accustomed to it at this point or is used to waiting patiently. But I love what Kyle says,
8:00
like he is, he is going to, he's a loving God and he's going to come. So waiting is just part of
8:06
it sometimes. When he was seemingly in a habit of that, because when you go down to verse three,
8:11
he put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God, many will see in fear and put their
8:16
trust in the Lord, but he put a new song in my mouth. That begs the question, what was the original
8:20
song? Like, was he really complaining? Was he whining? Was he everything that I do whenever I'm
8:27
impatient, complaining, whining, and I'm so terrible, as I said, you're in wait in this air
8:32
condition building for this thing to happen on my schedule. And so it makes you wonder,
8:36
because he doesn't really allude to it. I don't guess, taken like, what was the old song,
8:41
because the new song on his mouth is a song that is leading others to see that song to hear that
8:48
and to then put their trust in the Lord. Right. And isn't that just such a, such a picture of like
8:52
becoming a believer is, is trying to, there's something different, right? We're, we're set apart.
9:00
And for other people to see that, to, to see how you live that, hey, the things of this world that
9:06
should beat you up and put you like in a puddle ball in the corner, they don't like, why? What is
9:11
different about you? What is that? And that new song is contagious, right? The new song that he
9:18
puts in the heart, like God's song is, is contagious. And it, and it brings people to it, has a gravity
9:25
to it that brings people to it. But I think it's funny. It's like, you know, many will see and fear.
9:30
It's like, well, you're a pretty bad singer, if, you know, God put a new song in my heart and
9:35
and everyone. Hey, everybody. Oh, everyone's, everyone's fearful now.
9:38
That's, I like to think about how, how that maybe could apply today. Like, what's the same old song
9:44
and dance we hear from everybody? Oh, what was me? I'm a victim. This happened to me. Why did this
9:50
happen to me? This shouldn't have happened to me. I'm a good person. And then, and then I, and then
9:55
I think about, okay, then once you become a Christian, or you have a regenerate heart, then, then you do,
10:01
you are singing a new song. It is, or you should, you're, you're going from Oh, what was me? I'm the
10:06
victim to God is sovereign. Even though all these bad things happen to me, like, I have joy that I
10:14
find in the Lord. And so like, that even applies to us today. And I think that's just really cool that
10:19
even in today's world was me, I'm the victim, we can have a song, our new song, seeing to the joy of
10:24
God. When we're putting our trust in our victimhood now, like there is currency and victimhood. I mean,
10:29
you talk to, you don't have to go back to our great grandparents, grandparents, generation,
10:34
just our parents, generation, and just those of us are early enough, because I'm an older
10:38
millennial, I guess, like this idea that you are praised for not being an overcomer,
10:43
you're praised for having no resilience, but also your, your handed victimhood status by
10:48
something that you didn't choose, right? You know, your, your skin color or your gender or
10:53
your athletic ability or something like that. But again, it goes back to what are you putting your
10:58
trust in? And are you straying towards the lie, which is that I mean, that's verse four,
11:02
blessed is the man who makes the Lord his trust, who does not turn to the proud to those who go
11:08
astray after the lie, because the lie mat is you're a victim, thus you are owed this, that and the
11:15
other thing, but not from yourself, not even from your family of origin, from society in general,
11:20
and we will coalesce society around you and your chosen identities and or your immutable
11:26
characteristics, because feelings are something. Yeah, well, not all leads to destruction. And I
11:32
think one of my favorite parts of this psalmist, he drew me up from the pit of destruction.
11:36
God drew me out of and destruction can be lots of things. Like, I think you can look at it as sin,
11:42
like sin is our destruction, and God pulled me out of that. And I really love what what Spurgeon
11:48
says here, he has this little paragraph, he says, I mean, he's always talking about Christ,
11:52
the redeemer's work is done, he set my feet upon a rock and established my steps. And I mean, like,
11:59
what a great picture, like he pulled me up out of the pit, and he set my feet on this solid rock,
12:04
where I where before I wasn't on any solid footing. And now because my faith is in the Lord God,
12:10
pulled me up and set me on solid ground. Yeah, the the solid ground is where you want to build
12:17
your house. We've mentioned that before. And so on the rock is where you build your life. And then
12:22
identity, you find in Christ, I was reminded though of the Mairi clay, if you go back in Jeremiah,
12:28
I remember Jeremiah was the weeping prophet. Nobody like that guy. Well, anybody that didn't want
12:33
to hear what God had to say didn't like him. And so at one point, he was thrown into a cistern.
12:37
He was in jail if I remember correctly. So he was actually getting fed, but he was thrown into a
12:43
cistern and left there to basically to die. And so he had a friend, I think his name was Edekiah,
12:49
that saw that and was like, man, we don't want Jeremiah to die. So he went and asked the king,
12:56
said, can we go get him out of that? The king allowed him to get 30 guys 30 guys to come get him
13:03
out of that Mairi pit that clay. And it's funny in there they put in, he said they took a bunch
13:09
of cloths or rags or something with him so that he wouldn't harm Jeremiah pulling him out. That's
13:15
how bad he was stuck down in that. They didn't want to rip his arms off trying to get him out. So
13:19
anyways, well, and that's, you know, the word picture of, of, you know, you could be in a pit,
13:24
but at the bottom of the pit is a bog, right? It's like, if you ever tried to walk through and
13:29
it's like you're leaving shoes and socks and everything behind you, it's, there is a suction
13:34
to it that is wanting to keep you there. And, you know, hey, he didn't just rescue me from a pit.
13:41
Yeah. Like, my, like, I needed to be pulled out and some pits you can get out of.
13:46
Yeah. This one, he got this one. Yeah. And what a perfect picture of the gospel, right?
13:52
Like, this is not something we can get ourselves out of. We need a God who loves us who will come
13:57
get us. And he does. So one thing that's interesting about this first part as well,
14:05
and if y'all have anything more on a four or five, I don't want to just skip, go ahead into
14:09
verses six through eight, but there's some very interesting things happening with verses six through
14:15
eight, because verses six through eight was actually used by the writer of Hebrews in the New Testament
14:21
because many Christian Jews were tempted to go back to the salvation by law model, so our gospel
14:27
and gospel plus or whatever, in not salvation by faith alone. So no more Old Testament sacrificial
14:34
blood system. Like, I mean, they're kind of working in that area. So as we dig through verses six
14:39
through eight, I'll re verse six here, in sacrifice and offering, you have not delighted, but you have
14:44
given me an open ear, burnt offering and sin offering, you have not required. The thing that's
14:49
interesting about the line, but you have given me an open ear. Another way that it's been translated,
14:54
it is ears, you have dug for me. And again, that attaches to Hebrews. And that's Hebrews 10 verses
15:01
five through seven. Ears, you have dug for me that that just hits way different than the ESV,
15:07
which is you have given me an open ear, because you don't, when someone says I've given you this
15:12
open ear, there's not the, you don't get that active ideal of you have this unfinished head blob
15:20
that doesn't have ears yet. And somebody, because somebody's going to dig those ear holes for you,
15:25
culture, society, your family, someone's digging those ear holes for you. But God's like, no, no,
15:31
I dug them. Not only did I create the blob that was there to begin with and the soul inside of
15:36
that blob, I dug your ears out. I found that to be like incredibly fascinating.
15:40
Well, and I almost think of it as like, Hey, our ears are there, and they are listening to
15:45
the lies, right? Like earlier, it talks about those who follow the lies like our ears,
15:50
our earthly ears that are flesh and on our head are there. And they have all kinds of input,
15:57
but it's like God has dug you here. It's like he almost put an ear on your forehead. And he's like,
16:02
that ear is for me. Like that ear, here's my voice. And here's me. And it, you know, it, you're not,
16:11
it's not competing with all the other noise. It's an ear that I have given you. And it is open to me.
16:17
Well, I didn't even really necessarily think about that part real quick while, you know,
16:22
browning coughs up along over there. I say that my voice cracks like once every half hour. I hope
16:27
you guys are having that. But it's like, because he's the crafter of the ears, he gets to choose
16:33
what direction they're pointed in, right? And so it's like, if you're building an antenna,
16:37
or if you're building, I guess anything you get to, if you're building a house, you get to decide,
16:41
you know, which windows the sunset will go into, you know, like that type of a thing because
16:47
you're the one that built it. So you get to make that call, which is still very interesting.
16:52
Yeah, to me, it was kind of this reminder that we truly deep down inside, we know,
16:58
we know what's right and wrong, you know, because that's God put it in us to know that. And so our
17:04
ears the same way. So but but it is possible to let culture speak those lies to almost in a way,
17:11
kind of reform how we perceive the world around us. And that can be tragic, obviously.
17:19
So go ahead, Matt. I was just going to say, I think the sacrifice and offering, I think it's
17:23
it's about the heart of how we come to sacrifice and offering. You know, he's not saying that
17:31
I will not do this, or I'm not negating this. It's the heart. So you know, it's kind of like
17:38
Cain and Abel, not only accepted one offering. And it was Cain's who was not accepted because
17:45
his heart wasn't in it, his heart, his heart was in the wrong place. And he had a bad attitude. And
17:52
I think that's kind of what I'd take out of some of this in verse six is you've not delighted in my
18:00
offering because I would my heart wasn't in the right place. And if our heart's not in the right
18:04
place, yeah, God doesn't want that. And it's and it's interesting then ironic that Jesus became
18:12
that perfect offering, even though it says here, he did not delight in offerings. He delighted in
18:18
the ultimate offering of Jesus. When I wonder as well, so going back to that whole idea of
18:25
God being the one that dug out the ears for you, pointing them towards him to where or making,
18:30
you know, the the ear hole and the sensory organs and all that stuff that goes into that that I'm
18:33
not fully understand, making that sensitive to his voice and to hear his voice. What kind of
18:38
actions do we have to take to point them in another direction? Because even if we're being
18:44
influenced by by society or culture or someone else to hear their message, we have to act we have
18:49
to that message. Like we have to point, we have to allow, I guess our ears to be pointed in the
18:54
direction of those siren songs that are coming from other places. And so it's like, how can we go
19:00
from something? But again, here I am like lamenting something that look, we have a very secular
19:03
culture that got that way for a reason. Like how does how secular humanism a thing? Like if we're
19:09
made in the image of God and you know, we're given signs at point directly towards him, like, how are
19:13
some of these worldviews, how's communism a thing? Like how is, you know, any of these types of
19:17
things? Like, how do those those worldviews come? And I guess it speaks to the craftiness of the
19:22
devil as well, because the devil is a craftsman. And so he can obviously divert our attention and
19:27
he can't change, you know, he can't change the clay because you know, he didn't invent the clay,
19:32
he didn't mold the clay, he didn't do anything, but he can divert the attention of the clay,
19:35
he can bust it up. Yeah, he can change it. And it seems like to me that it's it's for for me
19:42
personally, it's you know, tell me I have truth, still looks pretty good. But then give me that
19:49
instant gratification. I don't have to wait for this. I can have it now. It sounds good. It looks good.
19:55
I mean, the same thing with the apple, you know, it looks good. Yeah. It looked like it'd be super
20:00
tasty. And I can have it right now. You know, why not take it? Yeah, he can't create anything.
20:06
He sure can twist it. And that's that's where it goes. Well, have you ever like ever run Christmas
20:11
time, especially? Have you ever like tried to walk through best buy with your wife and have a
20:18
conversation? No, like they're you want to talk about distraction. It's like the TVs all look
20:24
amazing and they're shining and then the stereo stuff's going and all that it's like, it's all of
20:28
this, this sensory overload challenging for the attention of the conversation that you're trying
20:35
to have, right? So it's it's you ask like, how do we turn our ear away? It's like, man, it's almost
20:42
like, how can I, how can I possibly have this conversation walking through best buy? Like, you
20:48
know what I mean? That's like, we live in Best Buy at Christmas, right? And everything that we're
20:53
seeing, hearing, smelling is not good for us. Well, isn't it a common complaint that men have
21:01
Christian men? I'm just not hearing God. I'm just not really, I can't really, I don't feel his presence.
21:06
I don't feel his guidance. I don't do any of those types of things. And Browning just bounces
21:10
finger off off the good word. But the thing is, is like, when you wake up and you immediately start
21:16
scrolling, you go to Instagram, then you go to Twitter, then you go to Facebook, then you check
21:20
your email, and then you go back and you start the like, from the moment you wake up, you're,
21:23
you know, taking your morning dump. And here you are, just like, you're, you're right there in the
21:27
thick of it. And then you transfer from that to podcasts. And then you, you know, do the family
21:32
thing for a little bit, but then you hop in the car, music or podcasts or something like that. And
21:36
then you get to the office and you're doing your work, and you got stuff playing in the background.
21:39
And then you go to the bathroom at work and you take a phone with you, because, you know, if you
21:42
go to the bathroom and you realize you don't have your phone, you got to go back to your desk and
21:45
get it. And then go back because, you know, obviously, you can't use the restroom without it. Like,
21:49
it's, it's an essential thing. ESPN's got something new to tell me.
21:52
It's more essential. It's more essential than toilet paper at this point. But like,
21:55
we are constantly in a state of distraction and noise. And it's right there at our fingertips.
22:05
And I am like the worst about it, right? Now, I will say, Oh, well, I'm working, right? I'm finding
22:13
news and I'm finding stuff to talk about on the show. And I'm like doing all those different things.
22:16
But then whenever there's silence for five seconds, I'm like, well, you got to fill this gap with
22:21
something. But then it's like, what if God is yelling at me? And I still can't hear him,
22:28
because my entire life is best buy, right? There's screens there. There are headphones.
22:33
There are all those different things. And even when we go out into the nature, like, I'm kind of,
22:37
you know, embarrassed to admit this. But last year, I went on a hunt in Colorado, Black Bear Hunt,
22:42
and some other guys were hunting elk. And here I am sitting on the side of the mountain. I'm in
22:45
God's creation. I'm like, and I'm a mountains guy. I'm not a beach guy. The beach has way too much
22:49
potential of sunburn. So I'm up there in the mountains, and I'm covered up and all those different
22:53
things. And I'm listening to an audio book. Why? Well, because I need to talk about on the podcast,
22:58
and I got to talk about on my end of your book podcast and all those different things.
23:01
I'm in nature, waiting for an animal that God could provide for me that could feed me and other
23:06
families. But I got to do two things at once. And like, what an amazing opportunity that I missed
23:12
for three or four days. I knocked out that book. The book was awesome. But, you know, I just completely
23:18
crowded him out because the maker, the guy who dug my ears out, I gave his ears to something else.
23:23
And that other thing wasn't bad necessarily, but it just wasn't what was it? What were we talking
23:28
about in the last song we went over? Psalm 34, where it was like, it wasn't, oh, like, we were
23:34
talking about when you're taking refuge and taste that the Lord is good as well back in 34, eight.
23:40
Like, it's not that the things that we're doing are necessarily bad, but there may not be
23:44
force in that moment. God's got something sweeter for us and we're just not listening.
23:47
Yeah. What are you tethered to? And like, the word like God has spoken to us. If you want
23:52
God to speak, Paul washer says it this way. If you want God to speak to you, read your rival.
23:56
If you want to hear him audibly, read it out loud. And that's good. I really love that because
24:03
I think we're constantly looking. Can I go out in nature, do all that stuff? But I think as guys
24:10
we're always looking for, well, can I go out in the woods and God speak to me? Like, God speaks to
24:18
me every time I sit on my couch and I open up his word. And if I'm tethered to that, all those
24:25
outside distractions become less and less because I'm constantly immersing myself and I'm tasting
24:31
his goodness because I'm getting in the word. And I think the point is, is that the more
24:37
we're in his word, when we are approached by those half-truths or those full lies or, you know,
24:44
deceit, then what do we hear? We hear through that and we hear what we have read, what we've
24:50
ingested, what we've digested and meditated on, you know? So remember what we were talking
24:55
about last week when I think it was last week and maybe it was a week before pragmatism, right?
24:58
So we're so drawn to these pastors that are so smart and they're great leaders and they've built
25:04
these huge organizations. And gosh, their life advice is just so practical. And everything comes
25:09
from this pragmatic angle. And all the while you're forgetting, oh, wait a minute, no, this is true.
25:14
Like it feels true, it sounds true. And whenever I talked about Andy Stanley several months ago,
25:19
and you know, I said that he was a heretic because he is. One thing I talked about is,
25:23
I was going back and listening to video clips to sermons that I listened to the week he released
25:28
them. But whenever I was listening to them back in the day, I didn't have the ears to hear
25:32
the stuff that was being said, you know why? Because I wasn't reading this. I wasn't in the
25:38
word at all, right? What I was doing was I was listening to my favorite pastors and checking the
25:43
box and calling it good. I was going to the mega church and, you know, going to the concert in the
25:47
TED talk and checking the box and calling it good. But I wasn't looking at the Bible for myself. I
25:51
wasn't marinated in it. So when something that was said is literally a biblical, it is anti what we
25:57
learned in the Bible. I wasn't ready to call it out. I didn't even recognize it. So I couldn't
26:02
taste and see that the taste or see that the Lord was good because I wasn't eating it and I wasn't
26:06
looking. This is one of my favorite quotes. And this is what just made me think of this Walter Martin.
26:10
He said the existence of the counterfeit predicates the authenticity of the original.
26:14
You can understand that something is counterfeit only, only if you are fully engrossed and understand
26:22
the original. And it's just like counterfeit money. Tellers don't tellers don't deal with counterfeit
26:27
money. All they all they deal with is real money. And so the first counterfeit bill,
26:31
boom, that's a counterfeit bill because they know they know the real things so well. And I think
26:36
that's a call to us. Know the word know the real thing, know the real Jesus. Sometimes Jesus says
26:41
stuff we don't like. But if we know what he says and we know that it's true, we can spot a counterfeit
26:46
from a mile away. Yeah, and getting rid of bad habits is you don't have to replace it with another
26:51
habit. You're just replaced with something better. You know, and God's word is better. And if you
26:56
don't leave margin for the other stuff, then when just think about whenever I pitched you guys on
27:00
doing this and day and you were the most recent person that I pitched on, Hey, come on, come and
27:03
do this thing. And part of it was is I told you guys in 2022, I had my most prolific year
27:10
reading books ever. I read 53 books in that year. And I mean, these are between 200 and 500 pages.
27:15
And that is what I did. I didn't watch a lot of sports. I didn't binge watch any television
27:20
shows I read. And I did that to the redounding benefit of the interviews I did with the authors
27:25
of those books, because I actually read the books. I could go from one argument to the next. I could
27:30
stream together in questions that were way better than the generic. Well, how did you become a writer?
27:34
And you know, what was it about this book that you want the audience to know? It was like really
27:37
in depth stuff, right? But I can guarantee you that I didn't read 53 chapters of the Bible.
27:43
I read 53 books written by earthly authors. And I got a tremendous amount of value from most of
27:48
those books. But then 50, I didn't do 53 chapters at all. And that tremendous inequity was so
27:56
convicting. And there wasn't like a sermon I listened to. And I didn't, you know, have coffee
27:59
with a buddy. And then all of a sudden I felt convicted. It was like, wait a minute, this is
28:03
wrong, wrong, wrong. And I could feel that I was, I know a lot about culture and I can push back
28:09
darkness and culture. But I'm losing the foundation by which I'm able to differentiate between morally
28:14
good and morally bad, because I wasn't going to the book that teaches those lessons to begin with.
28:18
That's why that's what helped birth the forging table to where it's like, I want to swing the
28:23
pendulum back in the other direction. And I want to say no. And I've said no to so many interviews
28:28
this year, because I was like, that's probably a book I'm not going to get a lot of value out of
28:31
it. But I'm a moron. I'm going to read every single page of it. Or I can get another book,
28:36
dig in and guys, we have, we have the forging table planned out through like Easter of next year.
28:40
We've got some amazing things coming from the forging table. But that's how my mind's thinking
28:45
now is how many more commentaries could I read? How much more time could I spend in the word itself,
28:50
as opposed to reading some generic book about, you know, how to be a better leader or something.
28:54
Conviction, that's the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit is awesome, because the Holy Spirit
28:58
can convict us to be that where your treasure is, your heart will be also true. And when people
29:03
say they don't have enough time to read the Bible, myself included, I don't want anybody to hear
29:07
me saying something that I wouldn't qualify myself. I've been this and I still struggle with this.
29:12
It's not that we don't have time to read the Bible. It's that we don't make time to read the Bible.
29:17
If we spent half the time we spend binge watching shows, we'd read the Bible in a month, man.
29:22
The whole thing, all six to six bucks. And so binge read the Bible. Yeah, it just, it's about where,
29:28
where is your heart? What, what do you care about? What do you take time? What are you intentional with?
29:34
Well, and some of it's our, I mean, most of it is our fault on the margin side of things. I mean,
29:39
six out of 10, this is 200,000 people that were surveyed and asked questions about their personal
29:45
walk with Jesus, say that they are too busy to have a deep relationship with God. And so the
29:50
conclusion was that was that hardness in our life, then impedes our relationship or the depth of
29:56
our relationship with God, which then makes us more apt to be conforming to the ways of the world,
30:04
which then leads to more hurry, because that's what the world wants us to do, which then we just
30:08
repeat that cycle over and over and over cycle. Well, and so you're talking about the condition of
30:13
the heart, verse eight, I delight to do your will. Oh God, your law is within my heart. Yeah, right.
30:20
And then jump down to verse 10, I have not hidden your deliverance within my heart, right? Like,
30:25
your law is in my heart, but I'm not keeping it there. Like, I'm going to turn and I'm not,
30:30
I'm not just going to hide it there and keep it there for myself. Like, I'm sharing this,
30:34
I'm sharing it. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to speak it out. And man, it's, it's, that's where
30:40
you can start running into people and like, there's something different about that person. Well,
30:44
they're taking time to read the word and it compels itself out of you.
30:50
And the cool thing about that is I remember, because I didn't grow up in church, but I remember,
30:55
you know, going to church camp and it's like, all the kids at school should know that there's
30:59
something different about you. And then they're going to come up to you and ask you about it.
31:03
And you're going to be like, here's a gospel track. I'm glad you asked me.
31:09
But you know, I remember somebody pointed out like, has that ever happened where someone came up and
31:15
said, Hey, you're so different. What is it about you? It's that because you're absolutely right,
31:19
digging, but it's that extra step of being bold about, Hey, I'm not just a guy that dresses nice
31:25
and doesn't cheat on my taxes or my wife. Like, it's deeper than that. So I'm reminded of the
31:30
times that I've been able to be blessed in the presence of Phil Robertson, right? So the patriarch
31:35
of the duck dynasty clan and, you know, duck commander and all that, that man doesn't study
31:40
the Bible. That man does not do Bible memorization. He doesn't do anything that formal. He just reads
31:48
it all the time. And if you listen to the unshamed podcast, and if you sit there and have a conversation
31:55
with him, if you listen to the interview I did with him last year, it just comes out of him.
32:00
Right? And so have you ever had that moment where you get really, really angry and you say
32:03
some things out loud and you're like, I didn't know that was in there. It's like everybody else
32:06
knew that was in there. And it's like, and if you thought for any length of time, that would be
32:09
what's in there. But whenever his glass gets tipped, scripture comes out. And I was like,
32:15
Oh man, that dude has spent decades. And this is a dude that babies out of wedlock that, you know,
32:21
cheated on his wife multiple times a horrible person. He was a terrible person until Jesus said,
32:26
no, like, and just snatched him up out of that. But it's because he spends so much time digging
32:31
into the word that it just is part of his everyday conversation. That's how he's different. He's
32:36
not just different because he's nice. He's different because he's meeting. He'll be like,
32:39
boy, do you know Jesus? And that's a way different conversation. Yeah, it comes through hearing,
32:42
right? Yeah. And it's coming out from an overflow of the heart, right? The overflow of the heart,
32:47
the mouth speaks. And I had somewhere else going on. Oh yeah, bringing up Jeremiah again. I don't,
32:55
there was one point where he had been, they had burned his scrolls, they had stuck him in the mud,
33:01
they put him in stocks, they thought he was going to die, you know, and he once I'm, he walks away,
33:05
and I don't remember the verse exactly doesn't matter. But he just is like, God, what, what is
33:12
going on? I don't know if I can do this anymore. This is absolutely terrible. And then there's a
33:18
pause. And he says, but I have to, I have to, because if I don't, my bones are going to burn
33:26
through me to get that message out. And so that's what I see here. It's like,
33:31
I had a, I had a professor in college and he knew he said, if, if you say you know something,
33:39
then you need to be able to teach it to someone. If you cannot teach it to someone else, you don't
33:43
know it. You know, so one of the things I do is as I'm reading the word, I am, of course, ingesting
33:50
it and dissecting it and meditating on it and whatnot. But then I want to teach somebody, I want to
33:54
tell somebody. So I've got great opportunities with what I do to be able to do that. So I just
33:59
pick out, you know, one or two or three people throughout the day. But going back to what you're
34:02
saying, you know, you're right, nobody's going to come up to you and say, can I have a gospel
34:05
trick? That's not going to happen. So it's never happened? Like to anybody else?
34:09
Okay, got it. But people will say things and you know, you've heard it. If you've been around
34:14
long enough that people will say things like, man, this is such a great atmosphere. You know,
34:18
my work, it's just, this is a great atmosphere. It's just so different, you know, and that's
34:23
what they're saying. They're, there's something different. They're not necessarily saying,
34:26
give me a gospel track. But, but people do recognize that. So there is hope in that.
34:30
There's like a scent there as well. I forget what it's like, no, no, no, I don't mean this
34:34
necessarily your, your place smells like musk, but like the, but like, imagine walk when you walk
34:39
into a household, this maybe I'm the only guy and then we can just move past this and make this as
34:44
least awkward as possible. But when you walk into a household and you may not have the language for
34:50
this, but the man practices spiritual headship over the household, the woman is deeply loved
34:58
and cared for and discipled. The children are deeply loved and cared for and discipled and
35:03
catacized in the ways of the Lord. You walk into a house like that. It doesn't just feel different.
35:09
It smells different. And that's not just the, the pie bacon in the oven. Like it's just,
35:13
it's got a different thing in the air. And I think I'm reminded of another thing. And I,
35:19
I don't know if I'm allowed to use the names, but there was a situation with some people that,
35:22
that we know and some pastors that I know they were invited to come over to a house where
35:26
it was a Satanist house. Like, so this was a guy who that's all public. You can use that.
35:31
Okay. So this, that's all public. Yeah. So this, I'll just describe the story to not muddy the
35:36
waters and you can feel free to hop in as well. But this, this man was a practicing Satanist doing
35:41
ritualistic sacrifices with animals, blood work, taking satanic documents and taking them into
35:49
churches and putting them in the pews, like has had been, you know, he said he was able to gain
35:54
powers like he had powers of manipulation over people, specifically women, all these different
35:59
things. And I specifically talked to, I think two of the pastors personally that came over to
36:05
this guy's house one night to have a little bit of an intervention. I'll call it. I won't call it,
36:09
you know, like a full on exorcism, but an intervention with this guy. And I remember one guy, he said it.
36:13
And this had happened years prior and I'm listening to him describe the story. And he's like, Kyle,
36:19
the moment I walked in the door, I could feel the spiritual oppression. It was like there was a
36:26
weight on my chest that there was a heaviness in the building. And like I literally just like
36:31
gave myself goosebumps. Like there was there were literally like a weight. And then I've talked
36:36
to other men since then that have had similar like experiences with kind of darkness and waking
36:42
up in the middle night after a nightmare. And they're being held down by like a spiritual force,
36:46
like they can't get out of bed. And this isn't a continuation of the dream. They're awake,
36:50
like they're they're fully awake. But again, you do you think about that? So this goes all the way
36:54
back to what you said, Dan, it's like, Hey, something's different about you. That goes to both extremes.
36:59
When you walk into a place where the oppression is so thick, you can barely breathe. But also when
37:03
you walk into a place where the light is so bright that everything feels, tastes, smells better.
37:09
Our witness should help for sure. I want to to your story. He was delivered from Satan.
37:15
This guy. And now he preaches that. And so he is a he's a walking depiction of verse 10. I've
37:21
not hidden your deliverance within my heart. He's he goes and tells people God snatched me up
37:26
and said, no, Moss. Yeah, the guy's name is Michael Lee. He's he's he's an unbelievable human being.
37:32
Um, not by anything that he's done. He'll tell you like he is. He literally was animal sacrifice.
37:41
You name it. Any any stereotype you might have of a Satanist. He was doing it. And you you talked
37:47
to him now. You would you would never know you'd you'd laugh if you just met him.
37:54
The first time I met him, we're around a table. It was like a group of guys that are all kind of
37:58
doing pseudo ministry stuff. I'm probably 22, 23 years old and we're all introducing ourselves
38:03
like, Hi, I'm Kyle. I graduated from UCL. I got a degree in physics. This guy's Hey, my name is
38:08
Michael. I used to be a Satanist. I was arrested for trying to kill Pastor Craig Rochelle. Um,
38:12
like all these different like, and I was like, bro, like, can we save that for later in the meeting?
38:17
Like we're just doing intro stop showing off. But it's like, when you meet that guy and you hear
38:23
his story, it's preposterous because it doesn't make sense. You don't see that. But I think we've
38:27
all been around people in our lives where you see something in somebody and you're like,
38:31
that guy's bad news. Like, and there's just something about that guy. And I think I've told
38:34
the story on the on the podcast before, but Matt and I had a buddy in call. Well, he wasn't a buddy
38:38
in college is he was a guy. He was brought to the UCO hockey team to fight. He was the enforcer.
38:43
He was literally brought. He had, he had a gang background, very, very rough dude worked out every
38:47
day, gotten fights constantly, but somehow was able to stay in school and stay on the team.
38:51
Well, a couple of years after we had graduated, I'm walking through the produce section of Walmart
38:55
with my wife at the time, we've been married for a little bit. And I see this guy, his name was,
38:59
I don't know if I can use his name either. I'm like, I think you, I think you did. Okay,
39:03
we just called him Fuchs. That was his big name. But he literally, like, I see him. He's over by
39:09
like the broccoli and I'm in the peppers. And then he sees me and then he just starts making a
39:12
B line over towards me. I'm like, Oh, no. Oh, no. What did I say? What did I do? I didn't know
39:17
anything about fighting at the time. And so it's like, he just comes right up to me. But the thing
39:21
that was interesting about him is like, he had kind of like weird eyes, like very, very intense
39:25
eyes. And he was that guy that would like, he would just assume shake your hand as punch you
39:29
in the face. Like he was just, he would go off half cocked all the time. But I remember, I can
39:34
remember it to this day sitting in the Walmart on I 35 in Edmond, Oklahoma. And he's looking at me.
39:39
And there's like a brightness in his eyes. And I'm like, this is weird. And he goes, Kyle, Kyle,
39:43
man, it's so good to see you. Dude, I don't know. Has anyone told you about Jesus? Like this guy,
39:49
like, I just need if no one's told you about him, I need to tell you about Jesus. And I was like,
39:53
what? What? Like, is this some sort of joke? Are you going to like take me on the parking lot?
39:58
Because he wants to give me a Bible track, but he's actually going to hit me in the head with
40:01
a hammer and then take my wife? Like, but it's that's what happens when Jesus snatches you up.
40:05
He put a new song in my mouth. Yeah. Man. Yeah. Absolutely. And how foolish are we to think that
40:11
we could contain it, right? That that song that he gives us is for us, but it's not ours.
40:20
It's for his glory. Yeah. Right. Like he gave a new, he gave me a new song. And I can't, I can't
40:27
not sing it. And when I sing it, like he said, where does it say? Oh, shoot, new song in my mouth,
40:35
many will see and put their trust in the Lord. It's like, hey, many are going to many are going
40:40
to be attracted to that. It's my song that I've put in your mouth. Well, he dug out our ears.
40:45
He also dug the canal for our vocal cords. Yeah. Like he's the reason for that. And so that's why
40:50
when you tell people, well, I don't, you know, I'm not a preacher or I'm not an expositor. I'm
40:55
not a whatever when you're like, we're going through our gifts right now in our, in our Sunday
40:58
school. And it's like every gift you were given is for his glory. Yeah. That doesn't mean you have
41:04
to be a pastor or a worship leader or a missionary here. It's like God gave you legs that move really
41:10
fast. And you're going to run for his glory and that type of thing. Yeah. So I have a question for
41:16
you guys, because as we talked about from the top, this particular song is broken down. First 10
41:21
verses are Thanksgiving. And then 11 through 17 are lamentation. Excuse me. Is this a
41:28
is this a style? Is this how we should style our prayers after? Yeah. Okay. Like starting with
41:37
Thanksgiving and going until you feel like you've, you know, rung that out, rung, you know, that towel
41:44
out and then move on to lamentation because the Lord understands the cries of our hearts and
41:49
our desires and things like that. Those desires typically come from the lamentation side.
41:52
Because I'll say for me, I don't really do that. Like I'm teaching my son to pray, but he's too.
41:59
So he's stupid. So he doesn't know that prayers are dumb or good or not. He just kind of repeats
42:02
what daddy says. But all of ours are Thanksgiving. Do you all model your prayer life as Thanksgiving
42:08
than lamentation? Like how does that work for y'all? I mean, you, you attach that almost immediately.
42:12
Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, when I when I was being discipled, my disciple maker introduced me to
42:19
ACTS, which is very common. Most people know that it means adoration, confession, thanksgiving,
42:25
and supplication. The idea being that you start off by telling God how wonderful he is, what he's
42:31
done, who he is, his attributes, whatever, before you get in to confession. Now there are times
42:38
that I have switched it up and we'll do CA TS because I just realized I made a big boo boo
42:44
and need to confess it. But I think, you know, one of the things that David may be doing is he's
42:50
being reminded and reminding God as if he needs it, that he has been faithful, that he is a good
42:56
God and that there's a lot that David should be praising him for. And now that I've said that,
43:03
I need to confess my sense, you know, it's kind of leading up into that, you know, so my question
43:11
then, as he goes into that lament was, you know, what does confession look like? What is true
43:15
confession look like? Because I know in my household, with my kids, it has been in the past, it's
43:21
almost a forced confession. You know, if they, they do something wrong, I was like, tell your
43:25
sister, you're sorry. I'm sorry. And then we move on. Now, you know, what I say is like, I'll tell
43:30
them, hey, you really should, you should be sorry. But I'm, you don't need to say it from my benefit.
43:37
When you're ready, I want you to want you to deal with that. You know what? Sometimes I don't do it.
43:41
And sometimes I do that come back later and do that. So anyways, what do you, not to change it,
43:46
because I want us to continue to talk on that, but that would be kind of a sidebar question about
43:49
what drooper, what I think that's what God wants. Like the first words uttered after the fall,
43:54
or where are you? So God's looking for us. He wants to find us. He already knows what we did.
44:02
He wasn't asking, he wasn't looking for Adam to, because he didn't know what he did, and he wants
44:07
us to confess. So there's this, the creator of the universe, who is still, after this creature he
44:15
made out of dust, disobeyed him, which the right, just conclusion of that was death. And still he
44:26
said, where are you? I want to know where you are. Tell me what you did. I still want this relationship
44:32
with you. So it, and again, Jesus says that he kind of models his prayer, the prayer he tells
44:37
us to, to pray, exactly right, like it starts with, yes, God is the God of the universe. He's also
44:44
personal. Like you created the world, but you also saved me from sin and death. You know,
44:52
so that's where I think you got to start there for sure. When, when a kid walks in the room,
44:56
and they're acting like really nice. And it's like, like, everyone was like,
45:02
probably know where you're going. And every, every parent's like, what'd you do? You know,
45:08
it's like, I got to be like, no, I just love you, dad. No, you don't.
45:11
Yeah, it's like, it's like, you know, I feel like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to pray, you know,
45:16
father, you are, you are good. And I can just see him going, oh, man, here it comes. But it is,
45:23
it's like, he knows what I've done. But it's like, when I've caught my kids, I know, I know what's
45:30
happened. I'm older. I'm wiser. I put all the pieces together. I already know what happened.
45:37
But I need them to say it. I need, I need them to practice the humility, the, you know,
45:46
to take responsibility. And I need to hear them acknowledge true repentance, their repentance,
45:52
their mistake, right? And, and it, kids aren't good at getting there immediately. You know, they,
45:59
they dig themselves a little bit deeper, right? Like we've all done that.
46:04
Like adults can still be there. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's, thank goodness we don't have a
46:10
God that has that, like my attitude, you know, if, if my son crew walks into the room and he's,
46:16
he's being awkwardly kind or complimentary to me, like, there's a catch, you know, and it's like,
46:22
man, it's like, you know, the adoration first and supplication last, like, it's like, is that the
46:27
catch to like, I'm going to praise you, but like, I'm really messed up. He knew that, but he just
46:34
wants us to say it because it, it, it shows him that we acknowledge our reliance on it.
46:39
Well, and also Dagen, isn't it true that we will hear the depictions of Adam and Eve early on
46:44
in Genesis. And we're like, you morons, you're hiding from God. He can see you, but then we will
46:51
act as if God doesn't know what we just did. He doesn't know our, because it's not just the stuff
46:55
that we did, it's the stuff that we thought. Yeah, that's the thing that gets me, it's like,
47:00
I know my thoughts, no one else knows my thoughts. You think you know my thoughts because you listen
47:03
to me scream into a microphone for an hour or two once a week? No, you have no idea the level of
47:08
depravity that a person's brain and imagination can go to in the internal dialogue. God knows
47:15
all of it. You got nothing. You can't hide anything. But I don't say that as a negative thing.
47:21
That's a positive thing, guys. So when you're going into your prayer and you're talking to
47:26
the Creator God universe, recognize that he already knows. That doesn't mean you shouldn't tell him,
47:32
but he already knows. Because I know that there are really good parents out there.
47:35
They already know that you backed into the garage. They already know that you got kicked off the
47:40
football team. They already know and you know they already know, but they want to hear you say it.
47:46
Have you been talking to my parents? No, no, but like, but like that, that's the thing is like,
47:50
you want them. Do you want them to say it because a good father wants their son or daughter to come
47:57
to them and say, this is what I've done. I'm so sorry because it gives the father the opportunity
48:02
to say, I love you and I forgive you. Right. It's also it's also an invitation to how we treat
48:10
other people. Like it's a vertical it's a vertical relationship, but it should come out in a horizontal
48:16
way. And if we're constantly reminding ourselves of the grace and the patience that God has with us,
48:21
we should be putting that right back out there with our kids, with people, our friends, our spouses,
48:30
because God is rich in mercy to me. Right. How could I not be rich in mercy to others? Am I quick
48:39
to condemn somebody when they do something wrong? How arrogant of me when God says, I literally could
48:47
kill you because like that that would be the only just thing to do to a sinner who is depraved,
48:52
but I don't because I'm merciful and I love you. But then we go, dude, what a jerk. They were
48:58
going to talk to that guy again, but it makes you it makes you quick to forgive though. Yeah,
49:01
because like the quick to forgiveness thing like, I don't remember if it was this week or on last
49:05
week's show, when I talked about how I just I have an unbelievable distaste for deceit. I can't
49:10
stand it. It like it really grinds my gears to seat does. But here, you know, not that long ago,
49:16
there was a guy that I really trusted have trusted for a very long time that deceived me
49:20
to my face on multiple occasions. Then I found out about it and that I called him out. And then
49:25
he to his credit, like a man came to me. And like we talked about it in my driveway to face to face
49:32
and he said, I did, I did deceive you. And it was one of those moments where it was like,
49:37
in my very first thing was like, I'm so smart. I figured this out. I'm Matlock and I figured
49:45
out the mystery and I called him on it. And I was right, ignoring the last 100 times that I was
49:51
not even in the same ballpark as what I thought I was. But that was to be honest, that was my
49:55
very first thought. But my next thought was I'm going to forgive him the moment he shuts up.
50:00
And so he's going through and he's him and hauling his apology. And he's, you know,
50:04
he's intimidated and blah, blah, because it's a weird spot like you, you got caught with your
50:07
pants down. And as soon as he was done, I was like, all right, man, I forgive you. Like,
50:11
and then he started apologizing again. And then I kind of let him. And then I was like,
50:16
I'm no, okay. Yeah, I forgive you. Then he like, if I'm lying, I'm dying. He starts apologizing again.
50:22
And then I cut him off and I go, I can't forgive you more than I've forgiven you.
50:26
I can't super duper forgive you. I forgive you. That really, really sucks.
50:30
You know, that doesn't mean that, you know, I think about you the same way. Obviously,
50:34
I have categories of people. You're a cat. You're in the category of people that have deceived me
50:37
before, you know, I'll have to deal with that over time. But I've forgiven you for what you've done.
50:40
I was so quick to forgive. And part of it was because my posture was in the right place
50:45
that not the posture of, well, I am a non deceiver and you are a deceiver. And so I am now
50:49
above you. I am number one ranked. You were number two ranked. It was not that it was like,
50:53
bro, I've been in your spot before I just haven't been called out. And man, if these
50:57
roles were reversed right now, I would super duper hope that you would forgive me wicked fast.
51:01
Well, so, so in verse 12, man, like you, that's a great example. Middle verse 12, it says,
51:07
my iniquities have overtaken me and I cannot see. It's like, like the shame of sin will blind you.
51:15
I mean, you know what I mean? Like it's it it's it's I'm wearing the shame. And I hear I'm sorry.
51:23
But I don't it doesn't compute. Right. Right. I heard what you said and it says, there are more,
51:28
they are more than the hairs on my head and my heart fails me. It's like when you are in that place,
51:34
like, you know, and there are places where you see, you know, people throughout the Bible and they
51:39
are broken. Right. And it is like, I can see being in that position, I can see standing in front of
51:47
Jesus, just apologizing, because I, I'm, I don't deserve like my affliction doesn't deserve to
51:57
reflect his goodness. But he's still good. So my son is super obsessed with CS list, the Chronicles
52:03
of Narnia. And so we're, we're reading, which of the Don Tredder. And there's this character,
52:09
his name's Eustis. He's very smart. knows a lot. He's very intellectual. He doesn't know any stories.
52:16
So in, in this book, he, he goes through the the sin of greed, he comes up upon this cave in Narnia.
52:23
And he discovers this treasure, like, oh my gosh, I could, I could do a lot of things with this
52:31
treasure here. He turns into a dragon. Well, then the only way he can turn back into a human
52:40
is through Aslan, who is Jesus, he's the Christ figure, the God figure in the Chronicles of Narnia.
52:47
As I think I was talking about last week, I think it was last week. Anyway, he, he sees Aslan and
52:56
Aslan says, come into the, go into the water to take off your skin. He's taken off his dragon skin.
53:03
He peels a layer off and he gets into the water. And then he sees, oh my gosh, I'm still a dragon.
53:10
Okay, I'm going to take off another layer and another layer. And he can't get off the dragon
53:16
skin. He keeps getting back in the water to be healed. And he's still a dragon. And then Aslan
53:21
says, I have to do it. And he's like, man, this lion claw is about to just
53:27
ravage me. That's not the exact words. But, but he's, it feels so good, but he cuts so deep. And my
53:34
skin is so raw. But it, but the, the only way I could get through it was that I knew it felt so
53:41
good. And it was the right, it was the right thing. And he peeled off that the whole dragon skin. And
53:47
then he gets in the water and he's, and he's healed. And gosh, we just sit in there.
53:54
God is so good that he preserves us anyway. Well, there's, there's a huge connection between
54:01
that story and what you were talking about use the word affliction. There's a connection between
54:06
affliction into gravity. And we live in an era where even in Christendom, a lot of people, a lot
54:13
of churches, they don't want to talk about your depravity. They don't want to talk about your sin.
54:18
But earlier this year, I talked to Brittany Delamora. She spent seven years as a different name,
54:23
her porn name, because she was a porn star for seven years. One of the most sought after,
54:27
you know, top ranked, you know, super rich, like she was everything in the porn industry.
54:34
And now she's a Christian minister that's like helping save women and men out of the
54:37
pornography industry and people out of sex trafficking. Because Christ snatched her up one day and said,
54:43
no, Moss said no, like, that's it. But when I had a conversation with her on the podcast,
54:48
go back and listen to the interview. I think it was back in January.
54:50
She understands the gravity more than I do. That doesn't mean she was a worse sinner than me.
54:57
I mean, she went further down the rabbit hole than I did. But I was a consumer of her business,
55:02
not like her specifically. But when I was in my twenties, looking at porn and masturbating,
55:07
I was a consumer of pornography. I was a pursuer, a consumer of adult entertainment, right?
55:13
And so that's where my stuff stopped. But she was in deeper, like she was addicted to drugs.
55:20
And she was witness to a lot of crime. She was witness to a murder. Like she was,
55:23
she was in that life. And she had no hope. She tried to kill herself on multiple occasions.
55:28
And oddly enough, it didn't quite work out. And now look at what she's doing. She's going to porn
55:33
shows saying, sister, I know what you're doing. I know that that's not your manager. I know that
55:39
that's your pimp. And I know that you have to make X amount of dollars per day. And if you're
55:43
not filming today, that means that you have to go to the back pages and you have to prostitute
55:48
yourself to make that amount of money. Because, you know, if you make two X what your daily,
55:52
what allowances that doesn't roll over to tomorrow, you have to make that amount of money tomorrow.
55:56
Well, I can't have that conversation, but she can. She understands affliction to depravity.
56:02
And so her grace in the covering of the blood lamp covering her depravity, you have to understand
56:08
her level of depravity before you can really understand that the tremendous amount of that
56:12
free gift. But go ahead. Well, we're all down in the pit at some point with stuck in the mire.
56:17
Right. And her mire is going to, you know, God's going to rescue her from that put her on a rock.
56:24
And that is going to speak to an audience. And that's why God had that like that scenario for her
56:31
to set her on a rock. Right. And make her footsteps firm. But you know, my mire's different. Some
56:37
people struggle with, you know, infidelity and marriage, and they just can't seem to
56:41
to figure that aspect out. Some people are, you know, it's greed or theft. And it's,
56:47
it's all just the mire that God rescues you from. And gosh, what a, when you are in the mire,
56:53
and you are crying out, right? And you're, some people don't have to wait as long as other, you
56:59
know, David talks about, I waited patiently for you. And you heard my cry. And then he sets you
57:04
on the rock. You know, it's being free to the dragon skin, right? It's all the sudden, it's like,
57:07
you know, how can any puts a new song in your mouth? You know, it's like that, that's, that's
57:14
the entire, you know, aspect of why I love this song is that is, man, like, he doesn't, he doesn't,
57:22
and like I said, like, I don't think he rescues you out of the mire for your own comfort. He doesn't,
57:28
he doesn't rescue you out to say, Hey, you're no longer in that, in the world of pornography.
57:34
Yeah. He rescues you out. He puts your feet on stable ground. And the new song in your mouth
57:39
is the battle cry that you yell as you run into it. And it's all for his glory. And I know Kyle
57:44
would agree with me 100%. We have, we don't do anything. God just snatches us up. And we don't get to,
57:51
we don't get to hold out our hand. It's almost Calvinist, like we made it. We're in a pit. We're
57:56
55 minutes into this nonsense. And you just decide to pull that out. So I'm just going to just ignore
58:01
that nonsense. We'll deal with that at some other day. Well, I want to talk about burden. No, no,
58:06
no, no, we're moving, we're moving on, pass it, you Jack wagons. I want to read verse 16 here,
58:11
because there should be a point to our Thanksgiving, but there should also be a goal to our lament.
58:17
And verse 16 is the goal to our lament, or at least the goal today was lament here.
58:21
But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you, may those who love your salvation,
58:26
say continually, great is the Lord. So 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, lament, lament, lament, lament, lament,
58:33
lament, the sucks, the sucks, the sucks. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. And then
58:36
verse 16, there's a point to it. I, and I wasn't planning on saying this, but here we go, call it
58:42
the Holy Spirit, call it gas, whatever. I know there are people listening to this podcast right
58:46
now. You do not see the point in your struggle. You do not see, you not only do not see a way out,
58:53
you see no purpose for it. And when you hear people describe bad things happening to good people,
58:59
natural disasters, terrorist attacks, hurricanes that, you know, wipe out entire population groups,
59:05
you think to yourself and your high and mighty state, how could a good God possibly let something
59:10
like that happen? Not only are you taking the viewing seat of God, which means you can see every
59:15
single possible angle to that situation. And that being a very narcissistic and arrogant place to be.
59:19
What you're saying is, is in this exact moment, there is no point that I can surmise from the
59:25
suffering. But what I can guarantee you, not knowing anything about you, not knowing anything
59:30
about your story, is there is a redeemable quality to your story? I just gave you an example with
59:37
Brittany Della Moore, and you, you drove at home with your point, Stagan as well. There is something
59:42
there in your suffering that can be used for God's glory. But it will also be to your redounding
59:47
benefit, because you will be able to spend eternity with him as you're experiencing that glory as well.
59:53
And so for those of you that are in the thick of it right now, this isn't some believe it in
59:59
achievement, achieve it, name it and claim it. This isn't some, you know, it'll be all okay later.
1:00:04
It sucks. It really, really sucks. But you're not going through this for nothing.
1:00:08
I want to, I want to rest in that for a second, because you said at the end, you said for your
1:00:13
eternal salvation. So maybe that's not exactly what you said. But even if, even if we don't,
1:00:21
even if, even if God saves us, and we come out of our pit, even if that doesn't get used to save
1:00:29
anybody, it's still to God's glory. And so I know you're not saying this, Kyle, but we shouldn't,
1:00:37
we shouldn't call on God so that God can use our story. And so we can go save people.
1:00:43
It is us who needs saving, right? And if that's the only thing that gets
1:00:48
brought out of that, all glory be to God. If God chooses to use that to save people to his glory,
1:00:57
and that's even better. But how sweet is it? That's for his glory that we're saved.
1:01:03
Well, going into verse 17 to wrap up wrap up the end, you know, he says, as for me, I am poor and
1:01:10
needy, right? It's, it's no matter, no matter your circumstance, whether you're in the mire,
1:01:16
you're sitting up on the rock like that is you in both of those situations. We're poor and we're
1:01:22
needy. And that's, that's where all of us are and that's where all of us should remember,
1:01:26
because even if you're not going through it right now, how long until your next trip? How long until
1:01:31
your next trip through that valley? You know, maybe you got through the valley quickly last time,
1:01:35
but the next valley might be the one that takes you home. And for me, I want to make sure the home
1:01:39
has a lot more light than fire. But guys, I know there's a whole lot more that we can say, but
1:01:43
we're going to have to leave it there. But come back next Sunday, where we will dig into Psalm 46,
1:01:48
which is Eric Browning's favorite song. So we've gone from Dagan's Eric Brownings. That'll be great.
1:01:53
And make sure you guys read Psalm 46 before next week. So you are prepared to read along and learn
1:01:57
along with us. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
1:02:00
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And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their music
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1:02:56
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:03:02
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1:03:26
[Music]