0:00
LinkedIn's AI powered job search can help you find the most relevant roles based on
0:04
your goals and experience. It cannot help you find something to talk about in the elevator.
0:08
So uh, ride any dragons this weekend?
0:11
It can help you find your next job just by describing it in your own words.
0:15
It cannot stop your coworker from describing their dreams.
0:18
So I was flying, right?
0:20
And while we can't help you advance in the office booze ball tournament,
0:23
LinkedIn can help you advance in your career.
0:27
LinkedIn is the network that works for you.
0:29
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:53
Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table,
0:56
the mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
0:59
forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience. At the forging table,
1:02
you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word.
1:06
And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:09
That's Eric. And that's, wait, wait, you haven't been here before, okay? We had a new guy amongst us.
1:14
So welcome, Dagan boy to the show. Dagan, how you doing?
1:17
I'm doing well. It's good to be the new guy and it's probably terrible to be the new guy.
1:21
It's terrible to be the new guy because we do a lot of things to the new guy.
1:24
And here's the other thing is there's not a fourth right now.
1:27
So there might be a fourth here in a second. So hey, life happens.
1:30
But what we do to kind of introduce the audience to people the first time they're on the show
1:33
is we have them answer three questions. So the first is, how did you become a Christian?
1:37
The second is, and you have like two minutes answer all these questions total.
1:40
So how did you become a Christian? How do you like to study the Bible?
1:44
How does your brain work? And we're going to add a fourth one for this.
1:47
And it's going to be what's your bench? Because, you know, in our lead up to this discussion,
1:53
I, as a joke, said that everyone that enters my presence has to do 25 burpees before I will
1:58
acknowledge them. And your reaction made me think that you possibly haven't worked out this
2:02
century yet. So just answer those four questions if you lose a question, but just start out with
2:06
how you became a Christian. That's an easy one. I grew up in a Christian home, lots of Christian
2:14
influence. Mom, dad, had us in church grew up in a church where scripture memory was really the
2:23
focus. And so I had a really good foundation of that. But then God really blessed me with
2:28
really good male influences in my life between can it cut camp and K life and and church. And
2:37
then that really laid the foundation to me becoming a Christian. It's one of those where I got baptized
2:43
when I was eight, but didn't really register until I was probably a junior in high school actually on
2:51
a ski trip with K life actually that that it really like the Holy Spirit really like grabbed me and
2:57
was like, Hey, I'm real. And this is a big deal. And you need to pay attention. So kind of went
3:03
through the motions got baptized when I was eight. But God really captured my heart when I was
3:08
high school gotcha. Okay, before we get to the second question, I'm going to give you your first
3:12
new guy critique. Can you please talk into the microphone? I mean, come on, it's like you don't do
3:15
this for a living. Come on right there. Now don't don't like chew on the microphone because that'll
3:19
make things even more awkward. But okay, so that gives us a good perspective. And the funny thing
3:23
about your story, I feel like that's a ton of the people stories that in it, I even talked to
3:27
someone this morning. So that gets us to how you became a Christian. So let's go into how do you
3:31
like to study the Bible and then kind of how does your brain work? So I'm, I'm like topical. So I
3:37
like a, I like to study the Bible topically, I like to dig around and find, you know, whether it's
3:43
love or forgiveness, but but really drawing from different places throughout scripture about that
3:48
topic. And see how that thread is woven, you know, Old Testament, New Testament, and consistent like
3:56
that partially is how my brain works. I do I will say like if if I'm in church, I love it when people
4:02
can be more inductive and lay it out. And I can listen to it and it makes sense. But if I'm going
4:09
to sit down and make sense of the scripture, it's going to be topically. Okay. And then is this the
4:14
burpees one? What's the next? Well, we need to skip right to burpees. No, it's like, so how did
4:18
your brain work? Oh, my brain? Well, so I mean, I think I naturally, I'm inclined to analogy in like
4:25
applying things to my everyday life. Like, how does that apply to me and my brain makes sense of it
4:31
that way? So are you more of a, because I have my perception of what you are, but are you more of
4:36
a slow processor? Are you a more of a Hey, let's know I kind of have an idea where we need to go.
4:42
Let's get out the door. Yeah, probably the latter. I mean, I'm pretty quick, not to say that I'm not
4:47
slow. I mean, you know, I'm my wife would probably say no, he's he's slow. But I typically can ingest
4:55
and very quickly, like wrap it around in my mind, whether it's a previous experience,
5:02
another memory or another story to kind of help me, you know, create an analogy in my mind that
5:09
makes it make sense. Yeah, I'm kind of similar way. And that's why like we have a good mixture of
5:13
different guys that we bring in and out because there's no one that's really in between. We either
5:16
have like our slow cookers, right? That that really need to labor over what you know, what they're
5:21
kind of feeling and understanding. And then you got, you know, more kind of snap judgment. Let's
5:24
get after it's high people. But then before we actually get into the scripture here, so how many
5:27
burpees do you think you could do in a row before your heart just like completely gave out? And I don't
5:32
know, you're you're standing next to a guy that, you know, could potentially help with that. You
5:35
know, he does like physical therapy stuff like that. But roughly how many in a row he's working
5:40
out. Yeah, yeah, I work out. It doesn't show. I hide it well. I think that's I think that's
5:46
actually a gift like you hide it behind that. Why are you exterior? I do. Hey, I'm I consider
5:52
myself intelligent. I hide that well too. Right. So I think that's a gift that God gave me is just
5:58
the ability. No, I do work out. It's, you know, it's old man workouts where it's really just kind
6:03
of keeping me flexible and keeping my back from hurting. But, you know, burpee stations,
6:09
I could probably knock out. I mean, I mean, 10, 15 like in a in a station and get onto the next is
6:15
probably where I'd where I'd like to quit burpees are there. There's such a microcosm of life in that
6:22
they're the worst thing possible. And it's just getting down and getting back up like there's it's
6:26
not complicated. Like it just it sucks. And like whenever you're like, Oh, I'm just gonna knock out,
6:31
you know, 100 burpees real quick. It's like you can do that real quick, but you're gonna leave a
6:35
part of your soul on the floor that you know you were belly flapping onto. But I think we've we've
6:39
set this up enough. But guys, as we talked about a little bit, we're going to be getting into the
6:42
Psalms now. So one thing that we're going to be doing is obviously we went through Galatians and
6:46
then first Timothy. And then every now and then we're going to be doing palate cleansers. So we'll
6:50
do some Psalms, maybe some Proverbs, maybe like a Philemon or something like that, something before
6:54
we get into whatever the next thing is. And so we kind of did a round table with some of the guys
6:58
here with undaunted life. And it's like, Hey, what are what are your favorite songs? Like what are
7:01
the songs that really speak to you? And so this first one is actually pretty special because there's
7:05
a member of our crew. And I I don't I don't even know if I can use his name on here because he's
7:10
currently deployed. He is in a part of the world that is not our part of the world there. Am I
7:15
going to be getting in trouble with the Pentagon? But anyway, this guy, he's been a part of this
7:20
group. He has not been on the forging table before. But he loves Psalm 27. So that's where we're
7:25
going to be starting right now. And just I know you're listening, listening to this buddy where
7:28
we're so happy to have you as a part of this crew. We wish you could be here right now. But we just
7:33
appreciate the work that you're doing overseas. But he did send me a note as to why Psalm 27 is so
7:38
important to him. And then we'll kind of dig in from there. So this is from our buddy. So he says,
7:42
this is my favorite Psalm. And verse one is among my favorite in the whole Bible. I chose Psalm 27
7:47
because it's simple, practical. And it is a picture of how I want to live my life. The whole chapter
7:52
points to how great our Lord is and how much we need him and should be seeking after him and his
7:57
kingdom. The Lord is everything. I am nothing without him. Be humble, seek him and his kingdom,
8:02
patiently and faithfully trust and wait on the Lord. He takeaways for me. And so again, buddy,
8:08
we appreciate you. You know who you are. We're so glad that you're listening to this and that
8:12
you're serving and doing what you're doing. But guys, whenever I dig into Psalm 27, it's really
8:18
hard to get past the first verse because it's such a definitional verse for kind of how we think
8:25
and how we act. And again, this is a Psalm of David, I believe all the Psalms that we're going to be
8:28
covering over the next couple of months are from David. But you know, it's the Lord is is my light
8:34
and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life of whom shall I be
8:40
afraid. And so there's a lot here really to start. That one thing that I did want to point out is
8:46
there's a few things that I've dug into that kind of break down the Psalms in different ways,
8:50
almost like here are the chunks. And so one that I looked at is verses one through six,
8:53
it's converses with self about privileges. So this is, you know, David conversing with himself
8:58
about privileges. Then verses seven through 12 is converses with the Lord about problems he's having.
9:04
And then the last two verses 13 and 14 are converses with self about perseverance. So we go from
9:09
privileges to problems to perseverance. But guys, let's just kick it off right there from the beginning.
9:13
I mean, the Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? Because I would say for most of us,
9:19
we fear a lot of people, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah, I know I was looking at the
9:23
historical context of this. And I think there's kind of still some questions about it. But it
9:28
looks like that at the time saw or a saw had lost power, basically, Samuel had said, David's
9:35
going to be the next king. And this is going to be how it is. And the question was whether David had
9:42
been named king, like actually christened as king, or if he was still running from Saul. And this,
9:48
I think the majority seemed to fall in this kind of idea that Saul was in the process of pursuing
9:53
David. So clearly he's on the run the whole time. And if he had been king, then the other side could
10:01
be that it could have been when Absalom, his son was trying to usurp the kingdom. And David was
10:07
on the run again. So so he's really, I mean, David's really going through it here. And I think
10:11
though those are the Psalms that I'm more personally drawn to is the one where it's like, okay,
10:15
this guy's like not riding after he's come through the storm, like he's riding right in the middle of
10:20
the storm. But I guess with that first part is like, in whom shall I fear, like whom shall I be afraid?
10:24
I feel like we're afraid of a lot of people. There are lots. There's lots of talk about enemies
10:31
in this particular Psalm. But there's kind of this new thing in, you know, I'd be curious to
10:36
hear from both of you on this. There's this new thing in Christianity, maybe it's not new, but
10:40
we're trying to be defined by how nice we are, not how truthful we are, not how close to the
10:46
gospel we are. But we're trying to be defined by how nice we are. And then we assume inherently
10:51
that if we're nice, no one's going to be coming for us. It's a very sheep-like mindset to where
10:56
it's just like, I'm just going to be this nice sheep and the wolf will just never be around. That's
11:00
kind of when we talk about, you know, sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs. It's like, it's always
11:04
the sheep that are looking around wondering, why aren't there more sheep dogs? It's like, well,
11:07
you're, you're part of the reason why there aren't so many sheep dogs, because you're scared of them,
11:11
because you just, you assume that bad things will never befall you. And then when they do,
11:15
you're the first one crying out for the sheep dog, and he may not be nearby, but the wolf is.
11:19
So I guess that was the first thing that's, that stood out to me as I was digging into this. I mean,
11:24
for you guys, do you feel that at all? Well, my personal history on that, too, is in the past,
11:28
I've tried to play it safe. I mean, I'm in a, in a job where I'm dealing with people all day long,
11:33
and so it's real easy for me to just kind of play both sides. And I've had people say, well,
11:38
as it will ask me a question, I'll give them kind of a general answer. And they'll say, well,
11:42
that was a very political answer, just kind of a non answer, basically. And some of that is just
11:48
because we try to keep some of that on wraps in my job. But more and more just, as I've seen time
11:57
go on, I see that the lack of being able to step out and speak truth and be, take a side is actually
12:05
detrimental to our society. And so I think it's absolutely necessary. We can't just, you know,
12:12
ride the fence, right? No, I think the world is, is saying that if you, like, you can't pick a,
12:18
well, you, you can't be on the fence, you got to pick a side. And then if, you know, in,
12:25
in a lose my train of thought already, you're gonna edit this part out.
12:29
Well, no, like, I think, no, well, no, it's like, when you're talking about picking a side,
12:34
like, I guess it used to be the thing that the moderate approach used to be the approach that
12:40
everybody was shooting for because they didn't want to be seen as an extremist. But the problem is,
12:45
is in our modern day, there are not moderate options available. So think about the, the transgenderism
12:50
of kids thing, like, okay, what is the moderate position on that? Because it seems like there are
12:54
only two positions. Yes, kids can change their gender. So let's give them hormones and chop them
12:58
up and see if, you know, we can make them feel better. And the other side, which is like, no,
13:02
that's morally reprehensible. And we're not going to allow you to do that. There is no kind of middle
13:06
ground. So it's like, I guess that's kind of what you're saying, like there are two sides of that.
13:09
Well, and, and you know, you bring up kids and I look at my kids and think, I mean, my kids are,
13:14
they're nice, like little kids, they're nice. But man, I just see like, they get attacked all the
13:19
time, they get attacked with worry at night. Like, just because they're a, they're a nice kid,
13:24
and they aren't political and they're not going to school and, and drawing lines in the sand with
13:29
their class, right? Like, maybe they're having a disagreement over which crayon color is the best,
13:33
right? But like, but like they're, they're genuinely like pretty nice. But man, the, the things that
13:40
they struggle with in spite of the, the lack of all of that conflict that they or their, their peers
13:47
create, it still exists, right? And they're still, you know, talk about like in Psalms where he gets,
13:52
you know, pulled out of the mire. It's like, how do my, how are my kids in this mire? How was a,
13:58
how was a fourth grade girl in the mire? And it's because whether you're nice or not, like,
14:03
it's like you said, like, man, the wolf's coming for you. And, and he's dragging you into it.
14:10
Well, digging, why? So, again, I don't want to get too ethereal right from the beginning,
14:14
we're literally one verse in. Why are we fearful though? And so when I, when I say we, I guess I use
14:19
that collectively, but you all are, you know, raising, you know, a Christian, you're the head
14:24
of a Christian household, you're raising your kids, you know, in the nurture and admonition of the
14:28
Lord, you're showing them all those different things. And so you would think just academically
14:33
speaking, these kids, if they know the truth, if they know the end of the story, that they wouldn't
14:39
feel the fear, like, because I mean, Eric, you set it up, this is actual fear, like he's feeling
14:44
mortal fear, he's being chased down. And he's also thinking that what he's doing is God's will for
14:50
him, but he's still terrified. So I guess like, where does that come from? Because I don't just like,
14:54
you know, shorthand. Oh, Satan, you know, oh, sin nature, like there's something else there.
14:58
Sure. I think, I think, you know, in David's perspective, like he knows and knows he can rely
15:04
on on the Lord, right? Like the Lord is my light and my salvation. Like he knows it. He's been through
15:10
it time and time again. I mean, you keep reading through the Psalms and he is, he is praising God
15:15
for pulling him out, right? And he knows that if I turn to you, that you will, you know, you are
15:22
going to light up my face where it is harder for a young child who hasn't been through all of those
15:28
circumstances, who hasn't been out on the battlefield to be able to look back over their
15:33
shoulder and say, you know, a fourth grader is not going to say, well, back when I was in second
15:37
grade, God really, really pulled me out of the mire and I can trust him. So it becomes a, you know,
15:43
fear comes from, you know, it's, it's, it comes from us trying to trust ourselves. And if,
15:49
if you are the only one you can trust, then heck yeah, you better be scared. Right.
15:53
Yeah. And I was going to say like the word identity, it's just identity. I mean,
15:57
my kids know that they are part of the Browning family, but more so than that, they're, they're
16:03
part of God's family as believers. And so having a firm sense of identity, I think, is where David
16:09
can be so confident. He knows where he comes from. He knows his purpose. He knows his been anointed
16:15
king. And he knows where he's going. And so I feel like he's hanging on a promise of what
16:20
God has given him. And that's where he has partial, partial confidence. And then as Deagan said,
16:26
he has an experience too to fall back on to that just deepens his faith.
16:31
So he doesn't have to fear mankind when he has a fear for the Lord.
16:38
Well, and there seems to be a couple of different fears going on because when we go to verse two,
16:41
when evil doers assail me, and again, guys, I'm reading from the USB, when evil doers
16:45
assail me to eat up my flesh, my adversaries and foes, it is they who stumble and fall. So there's
16:51
a lot of things here. So to eat up my flesh, so that's liking and likening it to a beast of some
16:56
kind. So this in this area of Palestine, like there are lines, there are bears, there are different
17:01
animals that are in this area. Everyone kind of knew what it was like to be torn apart by a
17:04
beast because humans died at the, you know, hands of beasts or whatever. And then but to eat up my
17:10
flesh, I think there are other translations or other like, you know, ethnologies or whatever,
17:14
go back to say, or to slander me. Okay. So I was thinking the entire time. Oh, bodily destruction,
17:20
right? This is David being hunted down and he's going to be ran through with a sword,
17:23
but it's or to slander me. And he's putting it seemingly, and I'm not imputing something to David
17:29
that I don't know for sure. Obviously, I'm not talking to him, but it's like, it seems like he's
17:32
putting those two things on the same level, because he's mentioning this, this slander here. Again,
17:37
we get the end of the story. It is they who will stumble and fall. So that's good to keep in mind.
17:42
But that's an interesting point that this is a man that grew up in a very, very violent age,
17:46
where human life was very, it was basically worth nothing human life was. This was at a similar
17:52
time in history where the head of the household and different cultures was in charge of the entire
17:56
lives of everyone in their homes. And if they decided that you died, you died, there was no court
18:01
case, there was no arguments that were presented. You were just killed, right? And so to have all
18:06
this worry, all this mortal worry and physical injury worry, but he's putting it in the words of,
18:11
what does what do they slander me? And I mean, again, it's kind of easy for me because I have a
18:16
podcast and you know, I've got this, you know, public persona. And it's like, it's okay, it's
18:19
kind of easy to throw stones at me. But then then you have people that will want to throw stones at
18:23
people that are related to me, even tangentially. And like, to me, it's easy for me to kind of ignore
18:28
those comments. But I would be lying if I didn't didn't say they affected me because every now and
18:32
then I will look at a one star review. And that will bother me way more than I will be excited at
18:37
the last hundred five star reviews. So I guess where does that come from? Because like words
18:43
don't hurt. We were taught that when we were a little kid, they're they're they're supposed to
18:46
not hurt, right? They absolutely hurt, right? And in that, and I remember that very thing growing up
18:52
about sticks and stones, but words don't won't, you know, and I was like, well, okay, but but they
18:58
kind of do sometimes, you know, and it's amazing. I just feel like if if a person can't physically
19:05
harm you, that that's kind of the next best. And with our social media outlets and what not,
19:10
they can do it anonymously. And there are no repercussions, like just to say whatever they
19:14
want to say, and then just move on, right? But it doesn't mean that the receiver is not going to
19:19
feel something as a result. Well, and I think as an adult, you realize, you know, sticks and stones
19:25
might break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Well, words hurt. They're sharp, like,
19:30
they're a long time. And I know some people that can craft some really pointy words, right? And
19:36
it's like, and it's like that that's not the case. There are times where it's like, you know what,
19:40
I would rather be physically attacked than verbally attacked because I know that I'll just like
19:46
get over it. But man, the verbal stuff, there is a whole other layer of fear of,
19:50
well, I'm going to be verbally attacked, or I'm going to be slandered. And then, and then that is,
19:56
especially today, that gets out and that's everywhere, right? Like, it's not only you reading the
20:01
comments, it's everyone else reading comments, right? It's like that adds that extra layer of,
20:07
man, the sharpness of the word that it can ripple, right? My the black eye you gave Neil Heel,
20:13
eventually. But man, like, how far are those ripples going to go with the word?
20:17
Right. And the viral aspect of that too, it just blows up. And then it's like, you don't even have
20:22
time to say your piece or say your side, you know, before everybody feels or thinks a certain thing
20:28
about you as a result of that. Well, I wonder how you guys, because I mean, you guys have teenagers,
20:33
okay? And so I've got, you know, two year old and maybe below one year old. And so,
20:38
the social media thing, we haven't had to reckon with yet, right? You know, when do they get it?
20:42
Do they get it? Like, what devices on isn't on a smart device or a dumb device? But I know that
20:46
there are literally tons of people listening to this right now that are really, really worried
20:50
about these things, because they've seen what words have done to their daughters. Because again,
20:55
when you look at boys and when you look at girls and you can go back, there's there's literally
20:58
mountains of research that talk about how those two different sexes, yes, there are only two,
21:02
I know I'm a bigot, but how those two different sexes fight men typically fight, right? You have
21:09
a problem with another man, you fight and then you bury the hatchet. And on a lot of cases,
21:13
that guy becomes your best friend right afterwards. But then with girls, it's like, they will try to
21:18
destroy you from the inside. So there's a joke I heard from a comedian back in the day. It's like,
21:22
boys are, I'll clean it up. But it's like, boys are, we'll mess stuff up. Girls are messed up. And so,
21:28
it's like a guy, like a boy will like destroy the house you're living in. Like a girl will open up
21:34
your soul and like defecate into it. Like that's, it's just a difference. I know I imagine that the
21:41
non-clean version, but like, that's the clean version of that. But it's like, it's different
21:44
types of warfare. But it's almost as if I've heard this argument before and maybe going a little bit,
21:49
you know, a little bit too far. But I'm curious how y'all think about it. Social media is the
21:53
ultimate form of feminine aggression, because Twitter, Instagram, comments, section, you know,
22:02
Facebook, whatever, you're saying things to people, you're making threats that you would never
22:07
levy at somebody if you could smell them. If you were literally across the table from them,
22:10
if you're eyeball eyeball, eyeball the eyeball with them. But you can, you can decide who someone is
22:16
in an instant and then tweet about it. And then that will live forever. But also that could affect
22:22
that person directly, depending upon how seriously they take your comments. And so in light of what
22:26
David's talking about here, this is really an identity plea about who he finds his identity in,
22:31
in whose words he's going to listen to. Who's is he? Is he the people's definitions by their words?
22:36
Or is he God's definitions by his words? How do we reckon that like this? This is kind of like
22:41
almost like a parenting seminar right now. But like, how do you reckon with those types of things
22:45
whenever these words, these slanderous words can have such an unbelievably big and profound
22:50
effect on them? Well, and this may not answer your question, but I was thinking like, what do I care
22:55
about? Personally, like if someone's going to attack him, attack me, if they attack my character,
23:00
or my trustworthiness, like that's probably a bigger blow like you were saying earlier than
23:04
being physically attacked. And I wonder if just, you know, David's sitting here, he's like, well,
23:08
I am literally leading this nation. I don't want people slandering me because I don't want my trust
23:13
worthiness and my ability to lead to be hampered as a result of that. So as far as from my kids,
23:19
if that is that what you're asking or just in January one, you know, I mean,
23:22
my oldest, we've had multiple conversations about, you know, anything you put out on social
23:28
media, in essence, is there forever? It's it's not going anywhere.
23:31
Well, let me let me actually reframe it just a little, sure, sure. So I guess what I was thinking
23:35
about is, so when you break up with your first girlfriend, your parents know you're not going to
23:41
die. But you're 13, you think you're going to die. There will never be another girl that will come
23:47
along and will like you as much as this girl, right? They can see they've they've done more life,
23:52
they have more wisdom than you do. As a Christian parent, when you see someone that has had their
23:56
reputation, your your blood has had their reputation destroyed for something that maybe happened,
24:02
something that maybe didn't happen. They were slandered in some way, potentially on social media,
24:07
and then you have the pile on and the likes and the retweets and the quote tweets and all that.
24:10
Like, how do you help them still, I guess, formalize their identity and anchor it to something that's
24:16
real? Because again, their brains like 15 years away from being fully developed, and you're trying
24:21
to explain them, no, no, no, your identity is found in Christ, but it's like, but they're being mean
24:24
to me. Like, how do you deal with that? Well, part part of it is my experience. I remember that. I
24:29
remember in class, having a crush on this girl across the room, and she didn't like me. And yet,
24:37
it seemed like every other girl in the class liked me not, you know, I'm pretty good looking,
24:42
but but but I didn't know I was in the presence of royalty. You are the entire calendar. You're
24:48
not just Mr. July. I love it. But isn't that also true that like the one girl that doesn't like
24:54
you is the target right? See, I was a fat ginger as a kid. So there was never a girl that liked me.
24:58
So we had opposite problems, but please go on. Yeah, I mean, then invariably what you'd be like,
25:03
well, I guess we're just gonna just have to move on. And as soon as you move on, then also let
25:07
girl likes you. And everybody else hates you. And it's just and I and I know that with with my with
25:12
my oldest, he's now in middle school. And I can tell he's like, he'll come home and he just seems
25:17
depressed. And he won't want to talk about it. Then we'll talk about it. And he'll be like, man,
25:22
I want to change schools. We'll talk a little bit more. It's like, you just know, I don't
25:27
want any friends. You know, nobody likes me or whatever. I'm like, I've been there. I know exactly.
25:31
Give it like two weeks. Give it two weeks. Sure enough, two weeks later, everything's okay.
25:35
And then another month goes by and maybe go through another one of these cycles. It's up and it's
25:39
down. But but the reality is is just going back to Dave. I mean, your identity should not be tied
25:46
to what people think about you because you can never please everybody all the time. There's just
25:50
no way you cannot please everybody all the time. And you cannot leave live up to their standards
25:56
all the time because they will if you try to meet them, then they'll change them and just look at
26:00
clothing. It's like everybody wants to wear the whatever the Nike shoes, the air ones.
26:07
Well, guess what? In about six months, it's going to be pumice or something. So as soon as you
26:11
they might take you five minutes, five months to get those Nike's, but man, you've got them and
26:14
then all of a sudden styles change. Let's be real about something. It'll never be pumice. But
26:18
Dave, and what were you going to say? Well, you know, middle school is another planet.
26:24
Yeah, can we just say that? Like middle school, like I I was awkward. It doesn't even just like
26:31
even come close to describing it, you know, like, and I thought I was a pretty cool middle schooler.
26:36
Yeah. And you know, and then I had kids and I've talked to my parents and been like,
26:39
you know, I'm one of five. And my parents with the hands down, the most awkward, difficult time for
26:46
all of us was middle school. It's this transitionary period, you know, you're you're looking like an
26:52
adult, but you don't have the brain of an adult. And so part of that's hard on a parent because
26:57
you know, I've got a freshman in high school and he looks the part of being able to have a conversation
27:03
and but but he doesn't have the brain. Now he's a smart kid, but like he doesn't have the emotional
27:10
maturity, he doesn't have a spiritual maturity. So physical comes first, right? So then you think
27:16
that they've got it. But you know, you ask how we battle that man, like, it's hard. It's really
27:24
hard. The way we battle it in our house and we're believer and especially in this kind of stuff,
27:28
when they lack the spiritual maturity, it's I think you run to scripture and you're you're
27:33
thumbing through the pages and you want to find the magic verse, right? And so but what we really
27:39
realized is it is when when it comes to raising your kids and and giving them the the help through
27:47
scripture, it's quantity over quality. Like it's just constant, you know, reinforcing scripture,
27:54
scripture, scripture, rather than sifting through and trying to find that one quality scripture
27:58
that you think is just going to make everything make sense to them and they'll go, oh, yeah,
28:02
that makes sense. God's he's a stronghold of my life, just like he was for David super easy.
28:07
So I wonder for you guys as well, because I know a lot of people that listen to my show,
28:10
listen to Joe Rogan show as well. And one thing that Joe Rogan has said on his podcast before,
28:14
that his favorite people in the world are people that had absolutely jacked up upbringings,
28:20
like abuse, violence, just really depraved upbringings. But they came through that now they're
28:26
professional comedians, professional fighters, you know, they're these really, really impressive
28:29
people that came out on the other side. Now, ignoring the fact that, you know, a lot of people
28:33
that have that start get, you know, chewed up and spit out and then we never hear about them,
28:36
right? We don't buy, you know, tickets and try to go see them be funny on stage. But as we're seeing
28:41
here, you know, especially with the first six verses, you know, we were, this is David talking
28:45
about his privileges, but then, you know, verses seven through 12, when he's talking about his
28:48
problems, Joe Rogan has said before, and a lot of other people have said this, is he wants,
28:53
he has these two competing thoughts in his soul that he wants his kids to, to endure hardships,
28:59
because he's seen the benefits it's given him growing up in hard situations.
29:04
But then at the same time, he worked so hard so that his kids wouldn't have a hard life,
29:08
you know what I mean? And we live in a very affluent community and there's, there's a lot of money
29:12
here, there's a lot of private school this and there's a lot of, hey, if your kid has the most
29:16
niche hobby possible, there are 10 coaches in this city that will, you know, charge you $500 an
29:21
hour to teach him how to be better at, you know, Rubik's Cube or whatever. The thing about it,
29:25
I struggle with that as well. I know a lot of guys listening to this is we are so thankful
29:30
for David for laying his laments out, but we don't get Psalm 27 if he's not on the run,
29:37
if he's not being chased down. Like, we don't, we don't really know who David is without, you know,
29:43
God's providences as well. But we just don't, we don't like reading stories about people that
29:47
didn't overcome, you know, those people that didn't survive. We like the stories like endurance or,
29:52
you know, skeletons on the Sahara or those books like that were, no, they endured unbelievable
29:57
situations, but then they overcame. So I guess for you guys, again, as parents,
30:02
this is kind of turning into a parenting thing. Like, how do you feel about wanting to make sure
30:05
that your kids experience this lament, experience this pain because you know it'll make them better,
30:11
but at the same time as a parent, you want to protect them, you know what I mean?
30:14
Yeah, I think that trials will come. It's not if they will come. It's just when they will come.
30:20
We were just having this conversation with some friends right before I came over here and I was
30:23
saying, you know, my oldest is 13. And I just think it's super important that because I remember
30:30
when I was about his age, 13, 14, 15, my mother is hands down the best person on the face of the
30:37
earth I've ever met. But when I was 13, 14, 15, I had a growing distaste for her because I felt
30:44
like she was holding me back a little bit from growing growing up. I was, I was our only child.
30:49
And I know she wanted to hold on even to this day. And it's a joke. She'll still say, "You're still
30:54
my baby." And I'm like, "Mom, I know. I know. I'm still your baby." But there is an important
31:01
aspect, at least for the mothers out there. And you could say to the fathers, "You've got to let
31:05
your kids fail. You have to give them the opportunity to fail or succeed. If you do not, you're holding
31:10
back." And the reality is, is they're going to hit trials. That is just, that is life. And
31:16
there is resilience that can be built through that. And to go a little step further, I mean,
31:21
there are times where it's just the quantity and the quality aspect what you're saying earlier.
31:26
Sometimes you just need to be with your kids. It's kind of like Job and his friends. And I know his
31:30
friends weren't very nice to him and said things to say they shouldn't have been saying
31:34
when he was going through his trial. But there are times where just being with your son and your
31:39
daughter and praying with them, just listening to him, just not trying to have the answer per say,
31:45
"Yes, you can read scripture." But sometimes they just need you to be there.
31:48
Those are great thoughts. And when you started talking about your mom, it made me think that we
31:56
were kind of thinking along the same lines in that it's hard enough to, you talk about how to
32:03
prevent the lament. It's like, "Well, I'm broken. I'm a broken 45-year-old dude. I'm trying every
32:11
day not to be the lament." I'm trying not to be a stumbling block for my kids. I'm trying to
32:17
be patient. I'm trying to be encouraging. I'm trying to, with my girls, you talk about the
32:23
difference between raising a son and raising daughters is when they have problems, they don't
32:28
want to hear me fix them. They just want me to sit down with them and hold on to them. And
32:33
that is taken a lot for me to not be the lament. And then another thought I had was I had breakfast
32:42
here in town with a mentor of mine whose kids are unbelievable. It's like where you're around
32:49
their kids and you think, "They've got it all figured out. I need to spend more time with these
32:52
people." And so just asking, "We're just catching up and his kids are grown and married now." And
32:58
he's asking about each of mine. And I said, "You know, I've got this freshman and he's a great kid."
33:03
But I feel like I've got three and a half years to get all I need done in him to prepare him to
33:13
go off to college. And what he had told me, I'll give you the short version, but really what he
33:19
told me was he's not going to be ready to go off to college. You weren't. I wasn't. That's not how
33:24
college works. That's not how high school works, right? You do your best. You love him. He was
33:31
encouraging me that Michelle and I were great parents. He said, "Boys, they're going to hit their
33:36
stride when they're like a sophomore or junior and they're going to realize, "Oh, I got to go get a look.
33:40
I have to have a life after this. And then things are going to really start to kind of make sense
33:45
for them." But he said, "What he needs between now and till he's about 22 is grace."
33:51
And that just hit me like a ton of bricks because man, it takes the pressure off of me having to
33:58
judge how deep do I get involved to fix this thing he's going through. But when you read this in
34:06
scripture, it's like, "Man, I am not his fix it person. I'm kind of the conduit to
34:11
that the Lord uses while he is developing spiritual maturity." Sure. And so I need to make sure that
34:18
I'm equipping myself with godly advice and we're going to scripture and we're talking about that.
34:24
But I need to extend him grace because he is going to fail for the next five or six years.
34:32
Yeah. And I would just add that to pray, pray, pray. There's not one ounce of us. There's not
34:39
something specific we can say that is going to change our kids. Our kids are changed by the
34:46
Holy Spirit. They're changed by someone supernatural, not by their parents. So being able to just
34:55
understand that we need to be in prayer for our kids, that God will take hold of them,
35:00
change them, change our desires. Because if we don't, then if it's all parenting based on reward
35:08
system, do this, you get this, don't do this, whatever. And there's nothing wrong with that,
35:13
don't hear me wrong. But if that's the only reason and they are fearful of getting in trouble and
35:18
that's it, they will potentially be compliant in your home. But if they have had no heart change
35:24
when they leave your home, they are likely just going to revert back. Well, guys, there's an
35:29
interesting through point with some of the stuff that you're saying. And so, Degan, you're like,
35:32
you know, try not to be the lament. And so I feel like that could be its own discussion
35:37
like being lament. But look at verse 10. So we're skipping down to verse 10 here.
35:41
"For my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord will take me in."
35:44
So this should bring us as parents a little bit of relief. Because if we are the worst of the worst
35:54
jackwagons on the planet, and we mess up everything, and we're statistically those dads,
36:00
for my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord will take me in. And so,
36:06
when you talk to these people that were orphaned, right, and that's just a different perspective.
36:09
When kids that were passed around a bunch of different homes didn't know their their
36:12
dads, maybe the new, their mom for a little bit ended up not knowing them, you know,
36:16
moms in jail or something like that, those situations, those people to a degree, they lost their innocence
36:20
way before most of us and way before any of us would have wished they would have lost their innocence.
36:24
But they have a perspective on verses like this that we will just read through and pass right by.
36:29
Because again, verses 7 through 12, those are, you know, David, you know, conversing with the Lord
36:34
about his problems. And I mean, what could be worse for a child than to be forsaken by their
36:40
father and mother? It's one thing to have your father and mother die in a car accident while you're
36:43
at daycare and, you know, then you grow up without them, but to be forsaken by them, to literally be,
36:49
I mean, just think about Jesus on the cross, like the, the, the negative again, he felt the
36:54
weight of sin, but it's like, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Right? Like, you've turned away
37:00
from me entirely. And even in that scenario, which is worthy of lament, right? They've become
37:07
lament. Your mother and father have become that lament. God is still there for you. He's still
37:11
providing for you. But I want to back up to verse 7, because, and I want to camp out on verse 9,
37:16
but I want to kind of set it up again. Verse 7 kind of starts this section about David conversing
37:20
with the Lord about his problems. Hero Lord, when I cry aloud, be gracious to me and answer me.
37:26
You have said, seek my face. My heart says to you, your face, Lord, do I seek? And then the
37:32
beginning of verse 9, hide not your face from me. Again, I have this thing because again, and
37:37
day, and I'm a lot like you, I'm a fast processor. I want to get it through as quickly as possible.
37:40
Let me just hit the high points and then I can, you know, you know, fudge the rest of it. But
37:45
David is pleading with God to make his face appear. And it's one thing to seek the Lord. And I feel
37:52
like in our modern way of doing things when we're sitting in our, you know, big houses and driving
37:56
around our cars that work. And we have, you know, we walk from one 70 degree environment to another
38:02
70 degree environment. We kind of, you know, we live kind of this easy life. We think when we
38:06
seek God that, Oh, everything else in my life is super easy. And if it's not that easy, I hire it
38:10
out. But in this moment, he's pleading with God, please don't hide your face from me. Like that,
38:16
that really hung me up actually. Verse 9, hide not your face from me. Because shouldn't that be
38:21
just, oh, yeah, he's not going to hide his face. But he's begging. He's like begging God. So I don't
38:26
know if that stood out to you guys. Verse 9. But for me, I was just like, Oh boy, I feel like we can
38:29
camp out there for a little bit. No, I do that. The previous verse eight seek my face, you know,
38:35
and we're David is saying you have said seek my face. And so he's like, you know, I'm supposed to
38:40
seek your face. But what I get to out of nine or what I get out of nine is, is he is, he's humbling
38:47
himself to the point where he is not worthy of God's attention, right? It's like, hey, like, I'm,
38:53
I am proof that this world is full of sin. Like me, David, I'm proof, like, don't hide your face
39:00
from me. Like I don't deserve your attention. I don't deserve to reflect your goodness. Like,
39:07
because of, because I'm jacked up. So I think it's one of those where it's like, Hey, you've said
39:12
to, to seek your face, but when you look at me, don't turn away because after what you see, right?
39:18
Right. And I was saying same thoughts. Like, you know, he's David is clearly aware of his sin. And we
39:25
know that when we harbor sin in our, in our life, that even our, even our prayers or be our detestable
39:31
to God. So I think that he is continually trying to remind himself and clear himself so that God,
39:37
till he can seek his face, I was also reminded by, by Moses when he went up and received the 10
39:43
commandments and he came down his face was glowing. Just that radiance from, from being in the presence
39:50
of God. And I, there's just desire. And I think there's probably some of the other Psalms we'll find
39:55
this as well. Just this idea of are we around people that are radiant, people that radiate God,
40:02
that, that, that have been with him, that have seen his face, that has seen his glory. I think that
40:07
seeing his face is, would you think kind of an allegory or at least of, of God's glory, of his
40:13
righteousness? Is that kind of what you get there? Well, I think so. And then, you know, you bring up
40:17
something interesting when you're around people that are seeking the Lord, it makes you want to
40:22
seek them. Again, we spend a lot of time talking about kind of our middle school, middle school
40:25
selves and our middle school kids. It's like, well, if a lot of kids start doing a certain thing,
40:29
it's amazing how quickly that makes you want to do that thing, whether it's an activity, a sport,
40:33
you know, buying a particular pair of shoes or just doing something, which, you know, leads to
40:38
those conversations like, all my other friends have TikTok. Why can I have TikTok? And it leads
40:41
to a lot of those discussions that you have to have that aren't nearly as fun for you or the kids
40:46
to be frank. But surrounding yourself with people that help you seek, I think that's, that's a rough
40:52
thing for a lot of, especially guys out there that maybe you're kind of the lone wolf guy,
40:55
maybe you're a little bit more introverted. And then you find yourself in these valleys in your
40:59
Christian walk. And some of these valleys can last a long time. Like, you know, not, not days,
41:05
like we're talking, you know, potentially years, decades, those types of things. And when you're
41:09
in those valleys, if you're surrounded by people that are seeking him, it's going to speed you
41:13
through the valley. But we don't, I guess we don't put a value on that. Or like, we want to be around
41:17
people that think like us, right? They vote like us. They, they wear the same color hat on Saturday
41:22
afternoons during college and all those things. But at the same time, they're, they're kind of
41:25
worried. Hey, Matt, get on in here, buddy. Get on in here. But you know, that that's kind of what
41:30
we're talking about. Let me make sure I turn your mic on everybody. Welcome, Matt to the podcast.
41:33
He's Matt. Hello, Matt. Hello, Matt. All right. So, so Matt, again, we're here in, in Psalm 27,
41:38
but I was just kind of talking about because, because Browning brought up this really good point
41:42
that we're, we're around people and whenever people seek us or sorry, whenever they're seeking
41:47
God, like that, that's kind of a good thing that kind of helps us. But I guess for men, why is that
41:52
so difficult for men to surround themselves with other men that are also seeking the Lord? Because
41:56
everything else seems easy. These guys, you know, like the things I like, they do the things that I do.
42:00
But it seems like we stop short of, and they're also seeking God like I know I should be. Does that
42:05
make sense? Yep. Absolutely. We just get stuck on the superficial. I think it's easy. I think it
42:12
keeps us from being vulnerable. No guy wants to admit that he's not everything, you know,
42:18
that they doesn't have it figured out. One of the things that we as men want to know about ourselves
42:24
is that we have what it takes to get her done. So I think it's hard sometimes. We don't want
42:30
those interactions that take us to a level where we have to admit that we're, we fall short, right?
42:36
Yeah, that's, I mean, you nailed it. Good answer. That's a plus for me.
42:40
Woo. You know, A plus from the new guy. I'm sensitive to this topic because, you know,
42:50
I had really good role models growing up. And it took a long time to be able to trust,
42:58
right? Like the trust has to be there for you to feel vulnerable enough to like,
43:03
know that, hey, I'm about to share my feelings and I'm not going to be like,
43:06
ridiculed or you three aren't going to go away and talk about me or something. So, you know,
43:10
when I'm talking to my son, you know, I let him know that, you know, first of all, I don't have
43:16
everything figured out and I am proof that we need a savior. Like that's what you have as a dad,
43:21
right? Right. So don't, don't build me up beyond the reality of I'm, I'm just a broken dude in this
43:29
world that has the pleasure of being your dad. Well, it's a good thing that you, you realize that
43:33
at some point, because it actually reminded me something, Matt, that you talked about on a previous
43:36
episode of the forging table is you grew up thinking, man, I'm a really good kid. Like I don't get in
43:40
trouble and I don't read, you know, I get good grades and I don't really like run around with
43:44
riffraff. But kind of to go back to the point that you brought up Browning is like, surrounding
43:49
yourself with people that aren't getting in trouble as one thing, surrounding yourself with people
43:53
that are also good athletes and, you know, you know, doing a good diet and not, you know, making
43:57
the mistakes, I would get them kicked off the team. That's a wholly different thing than being an
44:00
adult male that is surrounded by men. That is, that are really getting after and trying to like
44:05
seek the Lord through his word through prayer and those types of things.
44:08
No, I think that's a great point. And I, I think we could be so well, we, not, we can, we are so
44:15
turned inward that there is this tendency to say, Oh man, I didn't mess up here or I did this thing.
44:23
So I must, I must have it right. And I think to Dagan's point about being a dad, I think the
44:30
worst thing that we can do to our kids is have them believe that we've got it all figured out.
44:36
They say don't meet your heroes because they're going to let you down. Well, if you think your dad
44:39
doesn't ever mess up or your mom never messes up because they never, not that they're intentionally
44:44
trying to say, I don't ever mess up. But I think what you're trying to say, or one of the things
44:49
you're trying to say is we've got to be vulnerable enough with our kids to say, I am wholly unworthy
44:56
of salvation. But God is merciful and full of grace that even a sinner like myself
45:02
could have salvation and don't look at me as the measuring stick. Look to me trying to pursue
45:12
the measuring stick, which is Jesus. Watch me chase after him. And that's what, that's what we're
45:18
called to do. That's what you're called to do. But don't look at me as this perfect person.
45:22
Cause I'm not. Well, so what is that it? Is it humility then that for a lot of, again, we're
45:26
talking to a mainly male audience right now, or we're talking to ladies that wish their men
45:30
had this community of people around them. Is it, is it that humility to be able to say like,
45:36
even going back to what you said, Dagan, it's like, knowing that you've got guys around you,
45:39
that if you admit your worst thing, your worst sin, whatever that thing is for you,
45:43
that they're not going to be like, Oh my gosh, that guy's crushing in business. But I guess he
45:46
doesn't have it all going on. Like, I feel like there's a lot of that, that kind of an issue with
45:50
men is like, are we, are we scared to be judged that way? Is it a pride thing? Like, I'm kind of
45:55
trying to come coalesce that because I think that's coming right from David's words here.
45:59
Right. And it kind of goes both ways. It's really interesting. You've got guys that will then get
46:04
into these groups and they'll start sharing, but they don't, they just get patted on the back too.
46:10
It's just like, Oh man, we all sin. It's okay. You know, and then you'll be all right. You know,
46:16
so there's no, there's no depth. It's just, Hey, we're just sharing all our, all our stuff with
46:21
one another. None of us are getting better. I'll be back next week. I'll probably have done the
46:24
same thing. So it's almost like the pendulum on the other side. I've talked about this on the show
46:27
before, but like back in my early twenties, when I was trying to like, you know, get over porn and
46:30
those types of things, like really get a handle on it, porn and masturbation. I went to this group
46:33
that was suggested to me. And it's this group that you show up and there's probably like 35 40
46:37
guys in this room. And they immediately break you up into groups, which I think is the worst way to
46:41
do men's ministry. You don't know these people. You don't trust these people. You haven't accomplished
46:44
anything with these people. Like so you just showed up in a room and you have a penis. And so it's
46:47
like, ah, we're going to put you in a group and it's just going to all be good. So here I am in this
46:50
group. And there are all these guys are going around, rounding and they're saying, well, you know,
46:56
I made it two days without, without masturbating. And you know, last week, I only made it one day.
47:00
So and everyone's like, Oh my gosh, that's so awesome. And they're like, dude, you can do it.
47:04
Maybe this week you can get three days. And I'm like, all right, cool. And it's not my turn to share
47:09
yet. And then we get to this guy. He was a pharmacist. Okay. So he would meet up with random chicks
47:14
and like Walgreens parking lots. And they would bang in the car. He got STDs that he accidentally
47:20
gave to his wife, but he was a pharmacist and he knew what the symptoms look like. So yes,
47:25
Dagan, if you, those just listening to this, Dagan just went totally slacked on here. He
47:30
would literally put the medicine in his wife's food to serve to cure her of whatever venereal
47:36
disease that he gave her, right? So we go from the guy that can't, you know, get over that,
47:41
you know, two or two days without masturbating. Then we got this guy different level of depravity.
47:46
But the, the answers from all the guys was the same. Hey, man, it's like, you made it a week
47:51
without banging some random hoe bag in the parking lot and then sneaking some pharmaceutical drugs
47:56
into your wife's food. That's so great. And awesome. So I feel like the pendulum swings the
48:00
other side where it's like, we're going to just be compassionate. And we're not going to worry
48:03
about victory at all. Because that's when you get men around you that are willing to like grab
48:08
you by the scruff of your hoodie and say, brother, you're not going to treat your wife like that
48:11
anymore. You know, you talked about that on previous episode, Brownie, like you made an off-colored
48:15
joke, you embarrassed your wife, and you had a sheepdog get in your face and say, brother,
48:18
I know you love your wife. And that wasn't loving your wife. But we don't have those guys,
48:22
especially if you're successful, especially if you've, you know, you've got the respect of the
48:26
people in the community, you keep those sheepdogs, keep those people that will call you out on your
48:30
on your stuff, like, you know, your Paul to Peter and Galatians to you keep those people kind of
48:34
at arms distance. So it almost goes beyond just pride. It's just like, hey, I'm just trying to
48:39
protect my little bubble that I feel like I can completely control. No, it's like Christmas.
48:43
Christmas comes every year. Like you've heard that saying before, right? Like it doesn't stop the
48:48
fact that I shop the week before Christmas. And you're that me saying that guarantees that my
48:55
wife will never listen to this cast. She doesn't even know you're here. I can't even have her know
49:01
that. But it's like, it's like, Hey, it's a guarantee. Christmas is going to be December 25th of this
49:06
year. Well, it's like all throughout the Bible, it says you will be attacked in the enemy. The
49:11
enemy's mean, you know, up here earlier in verse two, you know, when evil doers assail me to eat
49:17
up my flesh, like, that's not Hey, when evil doers come to call me names in my front yard,
49:23
it's they're going to come up and eat up my flesh. Like all throughout scripture, it's
49:27
hey, this world is full of attack. And you are the target. Yeah, but as men, it's like,
49:34
like I'm going to walk throughout today, acting like I'm above that and like nothing's attacking
49:40
me and I'm good. It's like, no, no, no, every single one of us has been bombarded with attacks
49:46
from whatever angle the enemy can get us on at that day. And that's what I feel like we,
49:51
like, that's the starting place of vulnerability is acknowledging because it's already written out
49:58
for us. And and and and David does a great job of of saying like, you know, hey, God rescued me from
50:05
the pit. But he didn't rescue me from the pit to make me comfortable. He rescued me from the pit
50:10
to restore me so I can go back out to the battle. Right. And like, that's what we need is we need
50:15
to get together. We need to understand that we're broken. We need a break and we need to get that
50:21
off of us because guess what? We're going to wake up tomorrow and the attack is still coming.
50:24
I think and when you're surrounded with other guys like you, it's like a phalanx, right? So
50:30
you're protecting the guy to your left and the guy to your right is protecting you. And most of us
50:35
don't have that and in really a spiritual formation. And so you leave yourself open to where not only
50:41
can you be physically attacked, but you can be spiritually attacked. There's a lot of negative
50:44
things that can happen to you. And also, you may get very, very weary about waiting because you
50:49
think, I can't wait right now. I'm in a desperate motion. I'm in a desperate state, which takes us
50:55
to verses 13 and 14 here. This is the end of Psalm 27. I believe that I shall look upon the
51:00
goodness of the Lord and the land of the living. Wait for the Lord. Be strong and let your heart
51:05
take courage. Wait for the Lord. So we repeat, wait for the Lord. So verse 14, that word wait,
51:13
it's not like wait, like wait patiently. Like if you start getting jittery, sit on your hands,
51:18
just wait patiently. It's more like eager anticipation, right? So like I remember being a little kid
51:24
and it was my birthday. And you know, I know my friends are coming over like I would like under
51:29
like a crazy person go to the front door to just, Oh, I wonder if my friends are here. Oh, not yet.
51:34
Okay, then I go back in the living room in 30 seconds later, I come back. I wonder if my friends
51:37
are yet. That's eager anticipation. And when you're waiting eagerly, you're anticipating that they
51:42
will show, right? I wasn't going to the door because I wasn't sure if they were going to make it.
51:47
It was I couldn't wait for them to make it. So it's that same thing here that we shouldn't just be
51:52
giving up on on God's answer to us because it didn't come in our timing. Right. I was just
51:59
watching with Canon, the first Matrix last night. And remember when Neo has that phone and Morpheus
52:06
calls him at work and says, Hey, they're coming after you. You want to get out of here or not. And
52:13
so he has them on the phone. He said, you've got to go when I say go, but don't do anything until
52:18
I tell you. And so he navigates out, of course, he's it's complete failure. He ends up getting
52:22
captured anyways. But but it's that same idea that when God says go, you go, but when God says wait,
52:28
you wait. And I was reminded of Abraham and Sarah. Remember, Abraham had that promise. He said,
52:34
I'm going to give you a child. It's going to be a blessing, you know, your fame is going to be
52:39
more numerous than the sands and you know, the oceans and the stars in the sky and that sort of
52:43
thing. And he got a little impatient. And his wife came to him and said, you know what? Yeah,
52:49
we've got a guard here. You can just go ahead and do that now. And we'll get it done. And of
52:54
course, we know what happened as a result of that. But, you know, that's wonderful. That's why I
53:00
really like the Bible. The Bible is not clean. It does not give you perfect human beings that did
53:06
exactly what God said every single time. No, it's actually pretty darn embarrassing,
53:10
which another argument for the authenticity of the Bible, of course, too. But yeah, wait for the
53:16
Lord. It does. It does. It shows all of our all of our bad stuff by that eager anticipation.
53:22
We serve a God that will show up and does show up. And it's not a it's not a prayer of we don't
53:26
pray and say, Oh, gosh, please, I hope that he hears me or I hope that God loves me. Like we can
53:34
rest assured that he does and he does deliver us. And I thought that what a great ending to
53:39
a prayer in a song that we can anticipate this God who the God of the universe that
53:49
created us from dust still looks on us and says, I love you. I'm with you.
53:57
That's so cool to me when it's a lesson in patience for guys like you and me,
54:01
Dagan, who are very, very quick to react and also quick to lean on our own
54:06
understanding and to lean on our own abilities. And the thing that's interesting about that as
54:12
well, I wrote down as you were saying that, Matt, I wrote down the word pragmatism. And the reason
54:16
why I wrote that down is because what is the pragmatic approach with Hagar? They took the
54:21
pragmatic approach like this is if you were to hire a business consultant to come in or a
54:26
relationship consultant, they would they would survey the environment and say, well, these things
54:31
are happening. But looking over here, we got a young womb that we can probably stick something
54:34
in. Like, let's let's go and make this happen. Right. That's the pragmatic approach. That's the
54:38
approach we're getting from a lot of our pastors now. Okay. These are pastors that are really worried
54:42
about being, you know, leadership gurus and having conferences and being invited to speak.
54:47
They're not being introduced as senior pastor of ex church, they're being introduced as leadership
54:52
guru or host of blah, blah, blah leadership podcast. And it's just kind of like,
54:56
those things aren't inherently bad, but that's not your job. Your job isn't to do that. Your job
55:01
isn't to be Mr. pragmatic, because as you just pointed out, Eric, there are things in the Bible
55:05
that don't make a whole lot of sense. You know, when people during Donald Trump's administration
55:09
was like, well, you know, God can draw straight lines with a crooked stick when you talk about
55:12
Roe v. Wade and the three Supreme Court justices and those types of things. The Bible is just
55:16
crooked sticks. Like, that's it. Like, there's not that person in the Bible that's like, man,
55:21
that is exactly aside from Jesus. Like, yeah, aside from Jesus, all the normal regular non deity
55:26
light people, like those people were right there in the thick of it, making a bunch of stupid
55:31
decisions, because pragmatism, because they needed to get things done on a certain timeline. And
55:36
they weren't waiting for the Lord in any type of anticipation, much less an eager anticipation.
55:42
So guys, that's the first song that we covered again, we're going to be covering songs for the
55:45
next couple of months. And so but as there is more to say, we're just going to have to leave it
55:49
there for this one. But guys, come back next Sunday, where we will dig into Psalm 34, which is my
55:54
personal favorite Psalm. So guys, if you don't read Psalm 34, do not listen to my show next week,
55:58
you are not invited. So make sure you guys read Psalm 34 so you can be prepared for next week.
56:03
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Adam Daunton life,
56:06
our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual
56:10
mental and physical resilience. So guys, the only link I've got for you is a link to our donation
56:13
page. Guys, we cannot pull off things like the forging table, like any of the things that we have
56:17
coming that's in the hopper without you guys supporting us. So hop in there, go to our donation
56:22
page is www.undaunton.life/donate or the link there is in the show notes. Hop on board with us,
56:28
support us with everything you got. Thank you guys for listening to this episode. Wherever you
56:31
listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want
56:35
to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@undaunton.life.
56:40
That's i-n-f-o@undaunton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website
56:45
for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
56:48
Just go to www.undaunton.life and as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red for
56:53
allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song cutting the
56:57
tides, which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album leveler. The links are in the
57:02
description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
57:09
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
57:39
[Music]