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Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push
1:00
back darkness with content that forges, spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the Forging
1:04
Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into
1:07
God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's
1:10
Jake. That's Russell. That's Matt. Guys, we're digging into Proverbs 9. I almost said
1:14
Matthew 9 again, but there was an interesting comment that came up this week. So typically
1:18
with the Forging Tables, there's our big group text, and then there's the smaller group
1:23
text about logistics for whenever we're going to record. Yesterday, I just sent a text to
1:30
this group, and it just said, "Getting pumped." Because I was getting pumped. I was ready
1:34
for you guys to come over. We had a little bit of a lull there for a little bit, but we're
1:37
picking back up with our recordings of the Forging Table. And Matt responded by saying,
1:43
"Listening to Celine Dion right now, please don't uninvite me." So first of all, Matt,
1:50
I didn't ask what you were listening to at that moment. You were so excited to offer
1:54
that up in that moment, and I don't know why. Were you just letting everybody know what
1:58
you were doing? Were you giving us a chance to uninvite you? Were you saying you're pumped
2:02
as well? Because your heart will go on. I need to kind of have an idea of why you offered
2:07
up that information.
2:08
Listen, there's a very short list of singers who could claim the title of greatest voice
2:14
of all time, and I would argue Celine Dion is on that list of greatest voices of all time.
2:24
So I don't celebrate her entire catalog, but...
2:28
I just want to know the song...
2:30
The power of love?
2:31
Yeah, which one? That's what you were listening to at that moment.
2:33
That is a good one.
2:34
Okay, I don't know that one. All right, so what's funny about that is you didn't know
2:38
I was going to ask this, but I think we need to have a debate around this table right
2:42
now about the greatest, not one of, but the greatest female vocalist of all time. Now,
2:50
there is a correct answer, okay? But Matt, would you say that Celine Dion is your number
2:56
one draft pick for female vocalists ever?
2:59
Listen, when you're creating music and you're recording music and then they produce it,
3:04
there has only been one person to my knowledge that doesn't need the harmonization technology
3:10
to make her voice sound better, and that's Celine Dion.
3:13
Okay, so her voice on recording is her voice.
3:17
And you're comfortable with having a Canadian in your top spot, just making sure we're
3:21
good with that?
3:23
Yeah, yeah, throw it down.
3:27
All right, so Matt Scott Celine Dion. So new guy, what do you think?
3:32
I mean, because again, we're not talking about, oh, you like him or this is my favorite
3:36
note, the best female vocalist of all time.
3:38
Yeah, so I take into account their feeling of it. So like it may not be the best, but
3:44
Adele, I just love like I can almost like feel the passion, whatever she is feeling in
3:49
that, it comes across. And so for me, that is, that's huge.
3:53
It's Whitney Houston. Why is this a debate when he used it? Oh, what's a debate?
3:59
It's a debate. I can tell you, I can tell you exactly why it's a debate because who does
4:04
everyone say had the best national anthem performance of all time? Whitney Houston. Yeah, she prerecorded
4:08
it. It's fantastic. No, no, you perform that live. That is the whole deal. You don't go
4:14
out there and lip sync in front of the super bowl. She at least saying Celine Dion couldn't
4:20
see even seeing the national anthem. She's not an American. Also true. That is a solid
4:25
point. I wasn't saying all greatest American female vocalist. All three of those, I would
4:29
say should be at least in the conversation. 100%. Fair enough. Okay, they're in the conversation.
4:35
But again, if you pre record something and then people call it the best performance. No,
4:39
no, no, that's the best recording. The best performance is Chris Stapleton. Let's be real.
4:43
Let's let's give Whitney a little grace. She was struggling with some things. Oh, what crack
4:47
cocaine is struggling with? I get the heck out of here. That's what she was struggling
4:52
with. But as much as I can appreciate Celine Dion and Adele and Whitney Houston, even though
4:57
she's a cheater, you're all wrong. You're all wrong. And so whenever I look at it, it's
5:03
not just about power. Because what y'all gave me was essentially powerful, valid voices.
5:10
I think it's kind of hard to, I mean, people would throw a wreath of Franklin in there.
5:13
Do it through all these. And it's, it's the power of the people's voices that make you
5:18
feel something. So when you listen to Adele, it's the power of her voice that makes you
5:22
feel a thing. But I'm going to go the opposite direction, subtlety. There is a subtlety in
5:28
the female voice. Because again, when we think about the male female dynamic, I'm building
5:32
this up so big, aren't I? When you think about that male female dynamic, you want power
5:37
from the men. All right. So you're, you're good with poverty going crazy. You're good
5:40
with Josh Groban hitting all those flutters or whatever people do with those voice. That's
5:44
what you want. But I don't want power from a woman. I want subtlety. I want, I want beauty
5:50
that is heard, but maybe not seen. It's one of those types of things. So again, great
5:56
suggestions, but the greatest female vocalist of all time. I hope this is ridiculous. It's
6:01
not ridiculous. If you set all this up for something serious, that's the thing. Is it
6:10
serious? Like so, but I wish I would have said a little Kim or a salt and pepper or
6:14
something like that. But yeah, but yeah. No T boss. All right. So the greatest female
6:20
vocalist of all time, Alison Krauss. And if you don't know who that is, you done messed
6:26
up a Iran. That is a problem. Okay. No, no, no, don't you're about to crap on my parade.
6:32
I did all that set up. I'm not going to crap on it, but you, I didn't pick Celine based
6:36
on power. I, I picked her based on her ability to sing and the best female vocalist, Alison
6:42
Krauss, uses technology, uses technology. Celine Dion doesn't boom. Roasted. How do you even
6:47
know that? How do you even are you there in the recording room when they're mixing all
6:51
that stuff? Oh, geez, Celine Dion doesn't have a phone or listen, when when they record your
6:56
voice and I watched, I watched this documentary, I don't know, 10 years ago, maybe 15 years
7:00
ago, this guy was talking to us in music producers, you're talking about voices. When they recorded,
7:06
you have to produce them. And in the production process, you add some, I don't remember what
7:12
he called it, some harmonization, something to where it makes the voice sound better.
7:16
Like if I went and sang on an album, they'd have to do a lot of work to make me sound
7:21
like pleasant to people for them to listen to me. Um, I don't know, very white song from
7:26
Matt. I mean, they're very, they're varying degrees to which they have to do this to artists
7:33
to make them sound better than they are. Now, most of these people have great voices, but
7:37
they're still, there's still some level of post recording that they have to produce this
7:42
voice to make it sound better. Celine Dion never had that danderer voice. Boom. Roasted.
7:45
So you watched the documentary and it told you what to think about.
7:49
No, I watch the document. I use my discernment to take in that information. Oh, yeah. I've
7:56
got bad news for you. Celine Dion uses auto tune. No, she really, no, I just made that up.
8:00
Like I was just trying to get y'all. I was going to say then that documentary line. Okay.
8:05
All right. So maybe to all of you listening to this, how about you send us a comment or
8:09
send us an inbox? Those are your four choices. Those are your four horse. You're either voting
8:12
for Celine Dion, Adele, Whitney Houston, or the correct choice, which is Allison Krausen
8:16
here. Are y'all ready for the greatest transition ever? As we get into Proverbs 9, we have the
8:21
voice of the woman that's the way of wisdom and the way of folly. And there is power in
8:26
both of those voices. So we're not just talking about female vocalists for no reason. We're
8:31
talking about it because the Scripture required us to do it. So we're going to get right into
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Proverbs 9 Russell. If you will hit Proverbs 9 versus one through nine, let's get after
8:39
it. All right. Wisdom has built her house. She is who in her seven pillars. She has slaughtered
8:46
her beast. She has mixed her wine. She has also set her table. She has sent out her young
8:51
woman to call from the highest places in the town. Whoever is simple, let him turn in here
8:57
to him who lacks sense, she says, come, eat my bread and drink the wine that I have mixed.
9:03
Leave your simple ways and live and walk in the way of insight. Whoever corrects a scoffer
9:08
gets himself abuse and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury. Do not reprove
9:13
a scoffer or he will hate you. Reprove a wise man. He will love you. Give instruction
9:17
to a wise man and he will still be wiser. Teach a righteous man and he will increase
9:23
in learning. So this, this part we see and we're going to see as we get into the latter
9:28
part of this beginning in verse 13, but Proverbs 9 versus one through 18, this is kind of the
9:34
final poem of the first section of Proverbs. Okay, so you can look at this as a conclusion
9:39
to the first nine chapters of Proverbs, but also we see competing feasts here and the
9:44
invitations come from two different types of women. Again, this is just how they're being
9:48
manifested in this description of the wisdom literature. We're not necessarily talking about
9:53
wisdom, but we have, we have basically the way of wisdom and the way of folly and the
9:58
way of wisdom is described as a diligent woman, a diligent manager, but also the follow is
10:04
kind of the loud mouth seductress, right? So that'd be the easiest way to kind of look
10:08
at that. Now I do want to get into seven, eight, nine, because I think that's just a
10:12
little bit different. But in both of these, the, the woman of wisdom and the was woman
10:17
of folly, they both invite the simple, which I think that's described both places here.
10:22
I just found that to be interesting that they're not inviting the people that already have the
10:26
wisdom. They're both inviting the simple, but for different reasons. So that, that, you know,
10:32
landed with me. So I didn't know if y'all kind of caught on to that a little bit.
10:34
Or are y'all still in shock by my transition? Because I know it was, it was amazing. I haven't
10:40
said that for weeks now. The idea is that they, she invited the simple reminds me of the parable
10:46
whenever the bridegroom goes out and the people that were invited weren't showing up. It goes out
10:52
and just makes the invite to everybody basically kind of same thing we talked about last week,
10:55
that there is an open invitation for wisdom, go seek it, discern it, find it. And the idea that
11:02
like she actually gives preparation versus the other woman, like she prepares the table. She does
11:09
the things leading up to it. Because it is hard to tell if you're, if you're the simple, you're,
11:13
you're being asked to listen to both of them. How do you know which one is which they both go to
11:17
a high place? Which one is which? Well, which one looks like it had preparation for you to be there?
11:23
I don't know. Other thoughts from the big brains in the corners? Nope. Nope.
11:29
I'm just going to run this guy. Well, I mean, I guess I'll, I'll add this. One of the things
11:35
in Proverbs, you know, it's one of the things that's a little bit rare about it is, I mean,
11:40
if you actually look at how often they speak to men, but then there's also this contrast of
11:45
women and, you know, rush you hit on it as, you know, the bridegroom and I think one of the things
11:51
that we have to remember is we've been called as the church, the bride of Christ. And so as they
11:59
reprimand, you know, and kind of highlight the folly of women or, you know, the women who's
12:08
inviting you into her house for wisdom versus the ones who are inviting you in for a completely
12:14
different purpose. You also have to look at that as men as this is also our behavior
12:22
according to Christ, because if we are the bride of Christ, then many of these characteristics
12:29
would apply to us as well. So if you're inviting people into your home and to your circle,
12:39
who are you inviting them? Why? What is that purpose? You know, why am I such a good friend
12:46
to Matt Grasmer? Why is Matt Grasmer one of my good friends after like 12 months of being around
12:52
him when I've got relationships at span 20, 30 years? Well, it's because I'd want him in my inner
12:58
circle because I know he would provide that reproof and discipline and spiritual discipline,
13:04
but also like someone I can trust with confession. So I think it's important that we remind ourselves
13:12
that even in this scenario, just because it's like, well, oh, this is for the, this is for a woman
13:17
or this is a woman, they're speaking through a woman here. It's like, it still applies. It still
13:21
applies. It still comes to us. Right. I think let's go and talk about seven through nine,
13:27
because you were talking about there in your comments, or Jake. So again, we'll just go and
13:31
read it. Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse and he who reproves a wicked man incurs
13:36
injury, do not reprove a scoffer or he will hate you, reprove a wise man and he will love you,
13:41
give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, teach a righteous man and he will
13:45
increase in learning. So this kind of happens naturally with the stuff that I do, because when
13:52
I'm recording a podcast and whenever I'm giving commentary, there are people that I'm giving
13:57
commentary on. And so I'm giving my opinions on people, whether they're in government or in
14:01
ministry or just like a normal everyday life, I am to a degree providing a correction for these
14:08
people, for the things that they've done, for the philosophies that they've maintained and
14:11
expressed, you know, whatever that looks like. And so I'm very used to providing correction to
14:18
people that would just scoff, like literally scoff at it. And so the thing about it is,
14:24
it's absolutely true that those people will hate you. Some of those people will just hate you
14:28
because they hate you. Right. So when I talk about, you know, fundamentalist Islam and things
14:32
like that, it's like, no, they don't hate America because we've done things in the Middle East that
14:35
they don't like, they hate us because they hate us. Right. So it's pretty simple. They just,
14:40
regardless of what we did, right, they were just going to hate us because of what they actually
14:43
believed to be true. But again, what I focus on is not, I guess some people don't focus on the
14:49
haters, but that's one of the reasons why I don't read my comment section, because that's just those
14:53
are just people that are hating those are just people that are throwing, you know, crap against
14:56
the wall to see if I'm going to respond to it. But I'm, I'm concerned about the wise man that sends
15:02
me an email or comes up to me and finds me in public and says, Hey, I thought this way about this
15:07
thing. You provided a rebuke that I felt like was directed at me, even though you didn't know me.
15:12
And here's how I've changed moving forward. Now that may seem self serving like, Oh, I am so
15:17
high and mighty and intellectual and wisdom filled that you have taken my wisdom and applied it to
15:20
your life. But no, it's like, I like I tell people all the time, I don't have time to take your critique,
15:26
like don't take critiques from people you wouldn't take advice from. And so I'm not going to get into
15:30
these Instagram spats with people that might just be robots, first of all, but second of all,
15:34
literally might just be somebody that's just trying to throw stones. I'm not going to spend a week
15:39
going back and forth in the comment section with somebody that's not going to agree with me anyway,
15:42
because they are a scoffer and they're just going to hate me at the end regardless.
15:45
Well, I think I agree with that. This is a theme that plays out several times in the Bible. You see
15:49
it in Exodus with with Pharaoh, like he is already hardening his heart towards the things of God.
15:56
So he hates, he hates the things of God. So so correcting him does cause injury. You also see
16:03
Paul echo this in his letter to Romans. God gave them up. This is literally like God talking about
16:08
that is what happens. If if somebody already has a posture of hatred towards the word and the things
16:14
of God, they are not going to be in a posture to receive those truths. And so yeah,
16:20
but we shouldn't not say those truths. And to your point about you're, you're preaching to the
16:27
people who would be wise and hear that. I think putting that out there to where all will hear it,
16:33
God can use that to turn people the other way too. So I don't know, that's, that's what I think of
16:41
is, is Exodus and in then Romans, Paul's letter to the Romans where he, like God gave them up because
16:46
they were already like hating the things of God. We're going to have to do Romans at some point
16:52
because I feel like all roads lead back to Romans because like, just anyway, don't worry guys,
16:55
we'll get there. We'll get there. So you'll, you'll kind of see where we go. Yeah, you want to drive
16:59
Matt nuts. Don't put him on here in Romans nine. So no noted. Yeah. I want to say, I mean,
17:09
when we provide that reproof, it's not always going to be taken well. And to your point, Matt,
17:15
I think that there's definitely something that people who aren't in that right posture, you know,
17:22
maybe they're not following Christ or even if they just started following Christ and you come in
17:26
and you start providing that reproof and rebuking certain things that they're doing,
17:30
you know, they're not always in a posture for that. I think that's one of the things that's great
17:34
about this podcast is, you know, yes, you will call out some behavior Kyle, but at the same time,
17:38
these are people who came to this house for that type of wisdom, that type of, you know,
17:44
so it's kind of shocking to me that someone would listen to this and be like,
17:48
Oh, I have a huge problem with what you just said. So one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever
17:53
for for a lot of different reasons is the movie, the town, I love that movie. But the main character
17:57
has been Affleck. He comes into his best friend's apartment. And a girl that been
18:02
Affleck was interested in was, you know, she was, she was accosted and verbally assaulted in public
18:07
and all that. And so Ben Affleck wants to go settle a score. And so he finds out who these guys are.
18:11
He goes to his best friend's apartment and says, Hey, um, I need your help. I can't tell you what it
18:16
is. You can't ask me about it later. And we're going to hurt some people. And his best friend
18:21
sitting in the chair just goes, who's car we going to take? That was, that was his response.
18:27
So they go to these dudes apartment, you know, they beat him up like they're wearing masks and all
18:30
they beat him up. They cover him and like, you know, crystal meth or whatever. So if they call
18:33
the police, they're literally covered in, you know, contraband or whatever. And, um,
18:37
but then Ben Affleck's friend takes it a little bit farther. He takes his mask off. He says,
18:42
you see my face? And he shoots the guy in the leg and all that. And later, like whenever they
18:47
leave Ben Affleck's like, what are we just shooting people now? And his friend goes, Hey, you brought
18:51
me. And so that's how I feel when someone comes to my show and they've been listening for hundreds
18:57
of episodes and they're like, I just didn't like your tone on that one. I was like, tone police?
19:02
Like where were you like hundreds of episodes ago? Because the thing is, is like, if you don't like
19:07
the way that I say something, fine. If you disagree with my opinion, also fine. There are six million
19:13
podcasts in existence. Find one that doesn't offend your sensibilities. You brought me,
19:18
you brought me to your ears, through your phone. I really like how Joey puts it. I'm going to put
19:22
a preemptive. Sorry, Joey on this, just in case I butcher this quote, but I think he says something
19:27
often like, I can, I can expose people to the word of God, but only God can expose the word
19:36
to the people. And so again, sorry if I butchered that, but to me, like, and he kind of goes on to
19:41
explain it like I can show you the word and I can speak truth to you, but only God is going to open
19:46
up your heart and your mind to what those things actually mean. But to your point about like your
19:52
preaching and you have a person that you're talking to, but again, a God can use your words,
19:57
and I think he does probably a lot to people who do are cut off or are not cut off, but are
20:03
closed off to the truth of what God's word says. So one thing that I think that we need to do on
20:10
this too is we take it as that this is saying, Hey, we're the ones that are giving wisdom. So
20:16
let's judge how people are receiving it. But then the other half the time, we're the ones receiving
20:21
the wisdom. So take this and judge what kind of man you are. Like, are you a scoffer whenever
20:27
people reprove you? Does it incur them injury? Or whenever you reprove a scoffer, do you end up
20:34
hating that person? Or if if you're reproved, you end up loving that person? And do you get wiser
20:42
from it? Because I think that's much more applicable to me to be looking at and judging
20:47
myself and be like, and it's not a hundred percent either. Like there are times that by judging myself
20:52
up this, there are times that I would be included in the scoffer or the fool. So that's how Proverbs
20:57
goes a lot of times. It's like, man, depending on that circumstance, I have fallen on either side of
21:03
this. And I hope by the grace of God and through the Holy Spirit that I will fall on the right side
21:10
of this more and more and more as I as I continue to go ahead. As you soon said, I think that's a
21:15
great point. I oftentimes would fall in the scoffer category when people try to reprove me,
21:20
don't ask my wife for confirmation, please. But yeah, I think that's a really great
21:25
complaint. That's a very convicting thing to think about just like, how do you respond when
21:29
someone offers you reproof? And wow, that's a really good indication of where you're from.
21:34
And also, that's a David Nathan moment to where it's like, hey, you are that man,
21:38
because it's so funny. Like I'll record a podcast or I'll go speak live and people like,
21:42
tell them, Kyle, get them. It's like, I'm talking about you. I'm talking about you, bro.
21:46
But I do remember like, but I will tell guys, like my default is not to accepting critique. My
21:53
default is to fight. I'm default aggressive. It's all I'll take. I'll take one story that
21:58
includes me on the good side and one story that includes me on the bad side or whatever. But
22:02
there was a buddy of mine who he's a business owner. He's an upstanding dude. He's a Christian,
22:06
but he was taking a picture at a bar with some buddies and his other buddies. These are pretty
22:11
rough dudes MMA fighters, you know, Jiu Jitsu guys and all that. And they flip off the camera.
22:15
And so my buddy who's a Christian business owner, like conservative guy, he flips off the camera
22:19
just like his buddies. I see the picture online because it was posted on Facebook and he was tagged
22:23
in it. And I just call him. I go, Hey, man, I just saw the picture of you with this person,
22:26
this person, this person. I was like, what did you flip off the camera for? Like, that's not who
22:31
you are. And he did not respond well. He did not respond well at all. It was basically like,
22:37
you don't know me, Pharisee, like, why are you calling me out that kind of thing? He calls his dad
22:42
to complain about me. He says, can you believe this guy? He sees a picture of me flipping off
22:47
the camera and it flips out. This is what his dad said. He goes, is he right or is he wrong?
22:52
He was like, Oh, cool. And so he realized that he was an error not only for doing that in the
22:58
picture, but also for how he responded. And so he calls me and says, Hey, man, like this was quick.
23:03
He was like, Hey, man, I apologize. Like, I'm sorry. I was an ever bigger man. Yeah, I respect
23:08
exactly like I responded in my flesh, like all those types of things. And so another story real quick
23:13
is so this was after I may have told this on the show before, but uh, Joby was Joby Martin was
23:20
path was pitched to come on my show by his publicist, right? And so it was for his book,
23:25
if the tomb is empty. And so it was pitched, you know, mega church pastor writes a book and I'm like,
23:30
Oh, this is going to be interesting. Like, Ah, let me read this garbage book. And so I just say
23:34
yes for whatever reason. But then I read the book and it was great. It was like, very powerful,
23:40
really good. And I was like, but then I'm like, it's just a mega church guy. So I'm just going to
23:44
like ask him some questions and move on with my life. And then he and I really hit it off during
23:48
our first interview. And so we kind of trade numbers, but we're not like buddies. He was just a dude
23:52
that came on my show that we happened to have each other's cell phones. And I can't remember how
23:57
much time goes by. Let's call it two or three months. He calls me out of the blue when I'm up
24:00
here in the studio. And he's like, Hey man, can I talk to you about something? Yeah, sure. He goes,
24:04
what's your problem with big churches? I was like, that's a hell of a way to start a conversation.
24:09
What can you be more specific? He's like, every time you talk about, yeah, every time you talk
24:13
about big churches on your show, you talk about how they're not serious about discipleship. They're
24:16
not serious about the gospel blah, blah. And he goes essentially, and he wasn't like being angry
24:20
about it. He was like, man, the size of the church is parking lot. Doesn't, doesn't, you know,
24:25
uh, communicate whether or not they're serious about the gospel.
24:28
Now remember my default mechanism is aggression. My default mechanism is fight. My default mechanism
24:34
is take two of these and call me in the morning and kind of a thing. But in that exact moment,
24:39
I don't know what it was. To this day, I don't know what it was. I go Holy spirit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah,
24:43
I do know what it was, but it's like, it was like a natural nature. No, you're right. You're
24:49
absolutely right about that. And because I was communicating something that I didn't mean to
24:53
communicate because I knew better. I knew that there are big churches that do take the gospel
24:57
and discipleship and all that seriously. But when I was using my language, I was careless
25:01
in how I would describe it to where that anybody listening to my show would surmise. Kyle hates
25:05
big churches. If I go to a big church with a big parking lot that has a large budget,
25:09
if that has, you know, really good technology, then this is a church that doesn't take discipleship
25:14
seriously, which was not what I was trying to convey. And at a later date on a later conversation,
25:20
Joby goes, Kyle, to be honest with you, I thought that was going to be the last time you and I
25:24
ever spoke because I didn't really know you that well, but I knew you well enough to where I could
25:27
call you on the phone and would assume that you would answer. But he's like, I thought you were
25:31
going to respond in the flesh. I thought you were going to be super arrogant. I thought you're just
25:34
going to kind of be a [inaudible] about the whole thing. And he's like, I was shocked at how you
25:38
responded. And he's like, that kind of changed how I viewed you and viewed this show because he had
25:43
already found the show as a replacement for him and his son for the Joe Rogan experience. And
25:46
he was a fan. And then, you know, we did the interview and he was fine with all that. But I
25:51
know I just wanted to say those, those couple of different stories because it's like, you know,
25:55
I reproved a friend and he could have just scoffed and that probably would have been the end of our
25:59
friendship. I could have bucked up against Joby Martin and just scoffed at what he said. And it
26:04
would have been one of the most deleterious things and biggest mistakes I had ever made in the history
26:08
of Undaunted Life because our partnership with Church of 1122 and the mentorship that Joby Martin
26:14
has provided to me and provided to this show has been invaluable. And we would have missed out on
26:19
that if I just responded like a jerk, like I would have normally wanted to. That's a really powerful
26:24
story. Back to your friend, praise God that he has a father who's willing to not just pat him on
26:29
the back and say they're there, man, everything is going to be okay. What a jerk praise God for that.
26:34
And may we also be fathers who'd be willing to have those tough conversations with our
26:39
son? Because it's really easy, you know, to say, Oh, I'm so sorry, man. I'm sorry that happened to you.
26:44
Just that one question that that Greg Coke will rock on the shoe. Was you right? That's right. Was
26:48
you right? That's incredible. I have a my own story, but we may be fast story time on this.
26:54
Oh, hit it. Go. Go. So whenever I was in my like seventh year at my previous firm,
27:01
I had it was one of the I would say was one of the worst years of my life. I worked about 3,000
27:07
hours that year. Mom was given six months to live. And so I knew that I was going to go through this
27:14
holiday and this was going to be the last one with her. And I was I was always really busy around
27:19
the holidays just because of the year and deadlines that I would have. But this year is worse. I was
27:25
working 80 90 hour weeks, like consecutively for about, you know, I think it was eight straight weeks,
27:32
I was 80 plus. And my attitude got sour was really, really negative, outspokenly. So and
27:44
my boss called me in and he was like, Hey, your attitudes crap right now. Can you can you not be
27:53
that way? Because people are feeding off of it. They know how negative it is. And they know how
28:00
bad it is. And there was never an offer like to try and fix what was going on. He was aware what
28:04
was going on with my mother. Fast forward a few months, I had actually almost taken a job with
28:12
another firm. And they kept me prayed about it. My wife advised me to pray about it and just felt
28:19
really strongly that God was calling me to stay where I was at. And then that summer we have our
28:25
evaluation and my value. I'd never get bad evaluations. This never would. And then I got one. And it
28:32
was all about my attitude. And I remember leaving and I mean, fleshily, it just was like, I am ticked.
28:40
I am mad. Like this is unfair. I've worked harder for you than I ever have. I'm going through stuff.
28:45
I had every excuse in the world. But at the same time, like as I got space from it, I was like,
28:51
okay, fine. Out of spite, I'm going to be like, I am going to be the most positive
28:55
upbeat person that you know, you're going to be K love. I am. I am going to just be happy all the
29:00
time and just put on a show. Ironically enough. And then I would actually send like, we had this
29:06
fast feedback mechanism where I could just send in like, Hey, how's my attitude been lately?
29:10
And I just started doing that repeatedly. Again, out of spite, an issue with aggressive. It was,
29:16
it was, it was, it was, it was, but he was like, but he would sit, he would respond and he would
29:22
be like, nope, haven't had any complaints. You don't been much better. And then as I've gotten away
29:27
from it, as I've gotten further spin, you know, when it is, I've gotten space from that time,
29:32
I actually look back on it now and go, that was the single that like, that was a turning point in
29:39
my career. I'm running a firm now. And at this at this point, it's, it has become like, no,
29:46
you, you don't have the luxury of deciding to just let your flesh take over and express that
29:52
frustration. You have to stay positive. You have to stay update. Dare I say, you have to let the
29:58
light of Jesus shine through you at all times, because people can't see that. They can't see it.
30:04
If you're a leader who's in that mode, it doesn't work. So it's ironic that I have all these people
30:12
that I worked with in the past. And the person who I still talk to and still connect with is the
30:18
person who provided that reproof. And that's something, but you're right. And this, this went back to
30:23
the, to what you've all pointed out about my story about my buddy flipping off the camera.
30:27
Is there some genuine humility that comes when you can, when you can apologize quickly? Like,
30:34
cause some men just don't apologize at all. Some guys take the circuitous route and some guys,
30:38
they get there real fast. And that's another thing that we talked about, like, you know,
30:42
we were talking about the shoulder to shoulder thing. It's like, when you can be around a man that
30:47
can, you know, respond in his flesh, but get real quick to the humility. Like, that's a dude that
30:52
you can be around because I don't want a guy that's, that's default, nothing default, like,
30:57
you know, earthworm, where it's like, you couldn't depend on that guy for anything. You want a guy
31:01
that has some fight that has some passion, but you want a guy that can also realize, oh, that wasn't
31:06
the time to fight. And I did. And I just got there quickly. Can I, can I tell a story about it?
31:10
It's story time. Let's go about a young college guy named Kyle. Was it? No.
31:15
No, this is, no, this, I, this is flumsen.
31:20
Look at the dial. Lyle flumsen.
31:25
This is the problem when people known you for so long. You knew me when my brain was like seven
31:31
years away from being fully developed with the privilege of being able to look at this
31:35
back with hindsight. I could, I could look at this story and point to it being a pivotal moment
31:44
in our friendship and how we have kind of remained close and been good friends for such a long time.
31:51
We were in this organization called old blue crew and we were this subset of this organization
31:58
was called the crew, just a group of eight guys that would go to every sporting event and we were
32:02
at every sporting event. And you see where all four of us went had a really, really good soccer
32:09
team, a women's soccer team. They don't have men's like like scholarship sports, but their,
32:14
their women's team is really good coached by a really great coach named Mike Cook. And we got
32:19
it in our heads that we can break the record. I heard the story. Yeah. For most attendance.
32:27
Now, hold on. I know this probably isn't your favorite story, but this actually is one of my
32:31
favorite stories about you. So we try to break this record. We're in the football stadium.
32:36
Everything is set up for us to just crush this. I mean, there, no one would, no one would even
32:42
try to break this record when we were done with this day. They'd, they'd look at that and go,
32:45
there's no way. There's no way we're going to beat that. And everything was planned. We had,
32:50
we had put in a lot of work, Kyle had put in a ton of work. And I don't remember if you were the
32:56
president of Oluka at that time. So we're like, we had, we had set the stage was set for us to just
33:02
obliterate this record. Like, and then it just torrential downpours, like the whole day, lightning,
33:11
not just because in soccer, if there's rain, it's like, all right, cool. Let's look at the sky for a
33:17
few minutes. All right, it's kickoff time. This day was like torrential, tornado, lightning, thunder,
33:25
like severe, like take shelter. And so they canceled the game. And Kyle was, you were so mad.
33:31
Dare I say, I'm still mad. I'm mad right now. Like he was so, he was not
33:38
consolable, not consolable at all. And I remember thinking it's, it just rained. Like,
33:44
it can't be that big a deal, but you were so mad. But, and I don't even know if you remember this,
33:49
but I do that very same day. You called me and you're like, man, I'm so sorry. That was so stupid.
33:58
I should not have done that. And I don't know why I did that. I was just really mad. We put on this,
34:04
put in all this preparation. And I can look back at that and go, man, even as a 18, 19 year old kid,
34:12
your ability to quickly apologize, we moved past that. And we did, we crushed the record,
34:17
not too long after that. But I think that was a really pivotal moment in our friendship to go,
34:22
okay, well, this guy was mad. And he was able to come to that pretty quickly and apologize very
34:29
sincerely. And we moved past it. And almost 20 years ago. Well, so I don't, what's funny,
34:35
I don't remember the apology. I really don't. I only remember the negative stuff. But what I do
34:40
remember is when we had gotten word that the game had been canceled, I go and hide somewhere in the
34:47
stadium. And all you guys, the rest of the crew, you're down on the field, like kicking the ball
34:52
around, having a good time, like, I had no big deal, we'll try again later. And y'all are all
34:56
messaging me, where are you? Like, are you okay? Like what's going on? And I am hiding because I'm
35:00
like, apoplectic, I am like losing my mind. But I think part of it, as you were describing that,
35:06
what's funny, I haven't really thought about that in a while. I think it was because at that time,
35:11
if we had broken that record, I would have been validated. Because we were the largest student
35:17
organization on campus, but I didn't just want to be the largest, I wanted to be the best. And I
35:21
wanted to be the organization that everyone looked to and was like, holy crap, can you believe what
35:26
old blue crew is doing? And I was the president. And so who was going to get the most accolades
35:32
for building this, you know, Leviathan student organization, right? It was going to be me. And so
35:36
I was going to give validation. If we broke that record, I broke that record. You know what I mean?
35:41
Is that is that selfishness of like, I'm the guy at the top of the heap. And so I'm going to get
35:45
all the blame if it goes poorly, but I'm going to get all the credit if it goes well, which is
35:49
obviously the wrong way of thinking about it. But yeah, so I don't I don't really remember even
35:53
doing that. But it makes sense because you were the like you were the one specifically that I was
35:58
kind of like cold and angry towards. And again, it had nothing to do with you. You were just the
36:03
manifestation of my [inaudible] offness in that exact moment. So I appreciate you saying that before we
36:09
move on in Proverbs nine, I do want to give a quick shout out to Logos and Crossway. So we
36:14
love our partnerships with both of those, but our partnerships with them are for y'all's benefit.
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by name, use the Logos software to prepare their sermons. But even if you're not a professional
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36:38
into the Greek, you want to get into different commentaries and things like that, you've got to
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use the Logos software. It is the most powerful Bible software in existence. In the show notes,
36:45
you can click that link there and get a discount for getting that software on your device. But then
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also Crossway, we love that publisher. They've really hooked us up with a lot of great materials.
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But we have a forging table starter set. So for those of you that are wanting to start your own
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forging table and you don't know where exactly to begin, this starter set of five books, it's got a
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And that would be a great place for you to start. And if you follow the instructions that are in
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the show notes for this episode, you can get all five of those books for 50% off again. We're so
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glad for Crossway to be able to do that for us. But let's keep going in Proverbs 9. We're going to do
37:19
10 through 12. And this is really where the meat, in my opinion, of Proverbs 9 is. So I don't know
37:25
who read last. So whoever wants to step up read versus 10 through 12. I'll take it. The fear of the
37:31
Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight or by me your days will
37:37
be multiplied and years will be added to your life. If you are wise, you are wise for yourself.
37:43
If you scoff, you alone will bear it. So this is going to seem somewhat hyperbolic, but I'll just
37:49
I'll just cloak it in opinion language. So in my opinion, and you all have studied all the way
37:55
through Proverbs more recently than I have, I don't know that there's a better one line
37:59
or a more haunting one line in all of Proverbs in the beginning of verse 10. The fear of the Lord
38:06
is the beginning of wisdom. Like that, there is no, there's no fact on that on that statement, right?
38:13
The fear of the Lord. So fear, think, think more, not, you know, scary movie, think more like all
38:20
in reverence. And because, you know, I've heard atheists, well, if there is a God and I see him
38:26
one day, I'm going to give him a piece of my mind. It's like, actually, you're going to do nothing.
38:29
You're going to be terrified. Like you'll do nothing, you know, Conor McGregor style. Like
38:32
that's how it's going to be. Like you can't even look at him. What, what? You're going to give him a
38:37
piece of your mind as if he doesn't already know what you're going to say. Get the heck out of here.
38:41
But the fact that that fear leads to you exhibiting trust and obedience, I think about Pastor Matty
38:49
Montgomery, former lead singer of the band for today, he wrote a book called Scary God,
38:53
all really about this concept of having a fear of the Lord because we don't fear God anymore.
38:58
But if you're on the path, if you're on the pursuit of wisdom, what's the beginning of wisdom?
39:05
The fear of the Lord. If you don't understand the fear of the Lord, it's going to be a bumpy road.
39:09
Let me, let me just say something to that. So in chapter eight, verse 13, it goes right along
39:15
with this. And, and I don't know, this one might be, might be trying to out, out to, I don't know,
39:21
tough. That, that message says the fear of the Lord is hatred of evil, pride and arrogance,
39:28
and the way of evil and perverted speech, I hate. I wrote next to my Bible, I said,
39:33
this is almost like the creed of wisdom. Like Scott Stapp creed or like,
39:38
wasn't sure. They're making a comeback. I don't know if you all knew that, but they're, they're
39:41
making a comeback to understand fear of the Lord. Like what is fear of the Lord? Well,
39:46
the last chapter just says it says the fear of the Lord is to, is the hatred of evil. It is
39:53
diabolically opposed to each other, you know, and I don't know. I love those two together.
39:59
Those are great verses. I think we do live in a sanitized Christian culture,
40:05
fish use in water, or fish use in water doesn't know it's wet. Right. So there's a lot of things
40:09
that we could probably point to where they are a benefit of a Christian society that we take for
40:15
granted. And I think one of those things is the fear of God. And I think like to your point,
40:20
how, when people say, I'd love to give God a piece of my mind, man, I mean, how, how arrogant
40:27
of a statement is that, you know, and I've told the story a lot, but Moses, when he asks to see God,
40:35
this is, this is, this is one of the things that it can be really helpful for you to understand
40:39
how, like how, how holy and how powerful and how in fear of God, we would be if we were in his
40:48
presence when, when Moses asked to see him and he says, no, you can't, you can't look at me,
40:52
but I'll cover your face and I'll pass by you. And then I'll, I'll show you, you know, a glimpse of
40:57
my glory. And he, and the, the Greek that, that is translated, it talks about his, like he sees,
41:03
he basically sees his hindquarters, he basically sees the backside of God. And just looking at the
41:07
backside of God, he goes down from the mountain in the ears of your lights are so petrified of him,
41:12
they can't even look at him, just to cover his face with a veil because they are so terrified.
41:16
And he's only seen the backside of God. So to your, you're right, you would do no such thing in the
41:22
presence of God. We'll do nothing into your point. So hang on to that thought. Also, as soon as you read
41:27
chapter eight verse 13, it made me think of Psalm 97 10. Oh, you who love the Lord hate evil,
41:37
he preserves the lives of the saints and he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
41:40
So when these go along to get along Christians, these, I want to be known for what I'm for,
41:44
not when I'm against Christians. It's like, oh, I'm sorry, we're not called the tolerate.
41:48
This idea of tolerance is found nowhere in scripture, right? The tolerance of sin,
41:52
where do you get that idea? I'll tell you where you get that from culture,
41:55
which ends up at Satan's butthole. That's where most of that stuff comes out of culture, right?
42:00
But it's like, if you love the Lord, yeah, find, find that in in the first time.
42:04
Like it was right over your head, Matt, but it was like,
42:10
it was out in the distance. But like, that's things like, no, those who love the Lord,
42:14
we don't tolerate evil. We don't tut tut evil. We don't do pronoun hospitality towards evil.
42:19
We don't do any of that stuff. We hate it. And what do you do when you hate something?
42:23
You try to eradicate it from your presence. That's what God does. That's why God hates sin.
42:26
So anyway, just want to cut through that out there about Psalms, but go ahead, Wayne.
42:29
Yeah, I was going to say one of the things that we see repeatedly is, you know, when in scripture,
42:35
when angels appear to people, what's the first thing they tell them?
42:39
Do not be afraid. Do not be afraid. Why do you need to say that?
42:42
Yeah, yeah, because their faces are buried in the ground every time it happens.
42:47
So you're telling me they're not really trying to bury them. So they're not fat babies with harps.
42:50
That's not what they that's not it. That's not it. No, allegedly. Have you seen the AI pictures of?
42:56
Yes. AI Bible on like reels and TikTok. Yeah. Good grief. Yeah. That'll give you nightmares.
43:02
No, but I wanted to just to highlight that. I mean, these are these are heavenly beings
43:08
that are coming to earth. And the first thing that they tell people when they come here is
43:12
don't be afraid. And you think you're going to give God a piece of your mind. Yeah.
43:18
We can't even stand the sight of an angel. Yeah. How are we ever going to look? Yeah,
43:24
that's that's the point. Like we're we can't even stand the sight of things that are reflecting
43:28
God's glory, not even his actual glory, like reflecting it. But we should take heart in this
43:36
because this kind of this kind of mirrors our, you know, walk with Christ. You know,
43:41
it's just the beginning. Like it's not a one stop and you're in your done. It is a pursuit.
43:47
You don't fear fear the Lord and then everything is granted to you. You have wisdom for it. I mean,
43:50
ask Solomon that didn't work out for him. You know, he was granted wisdom and he was more wise than
43:56
anybody. And he did not end on a positive note, you might say. So, but we are invited to pursue
44:04
that. And so I think just like sanctification, there's this invitation to come and pursue wisdom.
44:10
And I think that's a pretty cool thing. Like we're invited to do that. So we should pursue it.
44:16
And what the fear of God really does is I think that the reason it's the start of wisdom,
44:20
the beginning of it is it is where you first have to come to to realize that you are down here,
44:27
you were you were you and God is God. And it's like that phrase, faith seeking understanding,
44:36
like, like the idea that's where you've got to start is just fully accepting. I am not God,
44:42
not everything will make sense to me every time something happens. Yeah, absolutely.
44:47
I'll paraphrase Jonathan Edwards. Sinners in the hands of an angry God, one of the most
44:55
powerful sermons ever preached, certainly in the United States. But he's talking about our
45:01
us in perspective and compared to God is we're being held over the pit of eternal condemnation,
45:11
hell, and we're being held by a thread that would would, it's like, it's like a spider web
45:20
that would snap if you dropped a rock on it. And that's a really scary thought. But if you finish
45:27
that thought, the truth is it's not the thread. It's who's holding the thread. And we're being
45:34
held by God by this thread by that, by all intents and purposes would be destroyed by a rock
45:40
falling on it. But we're held up by the one who created it all. And that should give us
45:48
great joy knowing that. But it also is a scary thought to think like, Oh gosh,
45:53
like I'm being held over the pit of hell by a single thread. And that's why I think,
45:58
I think of it as well, having a healthy fear of your father on earth is a good thing.
46:03
Right. So there are people that have a fear of their father because their father was doing
46:07
diabolically evil things, whether physically or sexually, that's not what I'm talking about.
46:11
I'm talking about where you know you messed up. You know, you messed up and dad's just not home
46:17
from work yet. And it's that anticipation. And then you hear the garage door and you're like,
46:20
no, and it's having in dad hasn't even found out yet because mom ain't told him or he hadn't
46:28
called the principal back yet. But you know, it's coming. And as soon as he gets it,
46:32
gets that information, you're going to get the fury. And you know, if you're a good dad,
46:36
you don't respond in your anger, you take a second and then you know, you respond in wisdom
46:40
more than anger. But that is a positive thing. Like I want James and Eli to be scared of dad,
46:46
not physically, not like I'm going to do something to take advantage of them. But it's like,
46:51
he told me not to do that. And I just did it anyway. And I know that's not what I should
46:56
should do. And they should fear my reaction and they should fear my punishment.
47:00
How much more is that applicable to what we see right here where the fear of the Lord
47:05
is the beginning of wisdom? Because why is the child scared? Because if we go backwards in time,
47:09
there was a conversation that was had about that, or there was a generalized conversation about
47:14
good and bad, righteous and unrighteous moral and amoral. And in that moment, your boy knows
47:20
something is coming. And so I feel like something's coming because you all just had a little giggle
47:24
a moment there on the other side of the table. What is going on? We'll tell it, like, let the
47:28
table know, Russ. I really want Russ to kind of share. I'm assuming you mean the spanking
47:33
spoiler. All right, let's do the spanking story. Let's go. I'm very lucky. I have a wife who is
47:40
by crown. And so so obviously with the kids, we have to worry about discipline and you obey
47:46
all the way right away and with a happy heart. And then we were trying to struggle a little bit
47:51
with not trying to we were struggling a little bit with how do we provide the discipline, but also
47:56
reference it to the scripture. So we got into the habit of before any discipline or while it was
48:02
about to happen, we would make them we we would have our kids, quote Hebrews 1211, which is no
48:09
discipline seems pleasant at the time, however painful, yet it will produce a harvest of righteousness
48:15
and peace for those who are trained by it. And we talked to him about the idea that everybody
48:18
receives discipline, not everybody lets themselves be trained by it. So I think that's why Jake was
48:23
laughing is that I am there is this idea that in my house right before the SWAT happens, you hear
48:30
these little kids quoting, no discipline is pleasant. And the tears coming out the halfway.
48:36
But where my head went is I thought it was happening during the spanking, which is way
48:40
sometimes way more severe. It's like very Catholic thing to do. Sometimes
48:44
now I will I will say it's not always a spanking by the way, but just just in case anybody starts
48:50
lighting up the comment section on Russ. He has three children that honestly are some of the best
48:56
behaved, most respectful children I have ever been around in my entire life. So whatever he's
49:03
doing is working because I mean, his son Harrison, every time, sir, excuse me, sir, sir, sir, I mean,
49:12
I'm like, okay, I feel 75 years old, but respect is always respected. So moral of the story,
49:20
beat your kids and make them memorize scripture. Is that what we're saying? It did it did help to
49:24
relate. We show it did help to relate that our rules are not just our rules. We try to apply
49:31
scripture into our lives and say the scripture game is Hebrews 12 11 12 11. Okay, so guys, take
49:37
that in because I know a lot of guys listen to this. You're those 30 something year old lean
49:41
forward to church guys and you're right in that moment with your kids. We know it was actually my
49:45
wife's my wife. She she was the first one to implement that shout out to Mrs. Eustis.
49:50
We have to come to grips with not discipling our kids is essentially hating them. Yeah.
49:55
And until you get there, because it's really hard to discipline your kids because like,
50:00
they're so sweet, they're so innocent and you just you feel bad when you, you know, have to,
50:06
you know, exact punishment or discipline them. But it is for their ultimate good just as,
50:11
you know, God does that with us. But again, if you're not, you are essentially the Bible says
50:17
you were hating your child. Right. That's absolutely true. It goes towards it. I mean,
50:21
it goes towards many things. It's not just children. I mean, it's, I mean, I've told people who work
50:25
for me all the time where it's like, okay, you need to write an evaluation and I'll get this
50:29
copy of an evaluation. I'm like, okay, listen, you were in my office regarding this individual
50:34
three separate times in the last two months complaining about them. And then you've given them a nice
50:40
score and given them no feedback in terms of how to improve. It is not nice or kind to be
50:49
dishonest with people. You like, even withholding that information is not nice. You need to be
50:56
honest. So what you're saying there is we should spank our coworkers. Yeah, I mean, that's kind
51:02
of where we're that we're raining. No, I mean, just back down to go ahead and retreat. No, let's
51:10
keep going. All right. Well, let's get off of that nonsense. Let's wrap up. Proverbs nine.
51:17
Give back. That's right. Back in the bushes. All right. Proverbs nine, 13 through 18. Let's
51:22
wrap it up. Whoever wants to read it. It's Russ's turn. Russ hit it 13 through 18.
51:29
The woman folly is loud. She's seductive and knows nothing. She sits at the door of her house.
51:35
She takes a seat on the highest place of the town. Calling to those who pass by who are going
51:41
straight on their way. Whoever is simple, let him turn in here. And him who lacks sense, she says,
51:46
stolen water is sweet. The bread eaten in secret is pleasant, but she but he does not know that the
51:54
dead are there. And her guests are in the depths of shallow. So, um, so she'll give us a sorry,
52:01
Joby. Sorry, Joby. Yeah, it is not you're there. You're there. You're in the shop. You're in the
52:07
sorry, Joby. So this goes back to what we were talking about last week. So stolen water is sweet.
52:13
You know, that's talking about forbidden sexual relations, you know, the bread eaten in secret
52:18
is pleasant. It's pleasant when you're eating it, right? And I don't mean that in any other way than
52:22
what this is talking about in scripture, but that's literally what we're talking about in that
52:26
moment. But the one thing I want to focus on since we're running a short time is, um,
52:30
the woman of folly is loud. The woman of folly is there's no subtlety. There is no subtlety there.
52:38
And so the thing about it is, is I'm constantly shocked. And again, we talked about this last week.
52:44
I'm so shocked whenever we have a a great man, right? A great man of God or not a man of God,
52:50
and they get into a situation like this, and they talk about everything in terms of a mistake.
52:54
Oh, I made a mistake. And again, it's like you didn't trip and fall like that you didn't turn
53:00
left when you were supposed to turn right at the light. Like, this isn't a mistake. You made a
53:04
bunch of conscious decisions. I remember a buddy of mine, uh, years ago was trying to quit dipping.
53:09
I was like, okay, tell me about the process of getting a new can. He's like, well, I just go
53:14
go store and get it. I'm like, nope. Nope. The star of the process. He's like, well, I get my car.
53:18
Well, no, no, no, before that, did you have to find your keys? Because I knew this guy kind of
53:22
his places as keys all the time. He's like, yes, I'd find my keys. Is there anything else you grab
53:26
for you leave the house? Well, yeah, I have to grab my wallet and I grab my sunglasses. Okay, so
53:30
you do all that. Where's the car in the garage? Okay, so you have to where do you where's the
53:33
garage? Well, I have to walk through the house. You see, and so I make him give me every detail of
53:38
his process to go get a can of snuff, right? And I'm like, how many opportunities did you have
53:44
to not go to the store? Hmm. I need to find my keys. You know what? No, no, I'm not going to do
53:50
that. Okay, I need to turn left on Brian. No, no, no, no. I'm just going to turn around and go home.
53:55
So when these when these guys get into these situations, the seductress is loud. The siren
54:01
song is loud. That's come into my house, come into my bed. Like it's it's all of that. You have
54:08
so many opportunities to drown it out. It doesn't matter how loud the siren song is because what
54:12
is that from? Is that from the Odyssey or the Iliad? I can't remember which, but it's the siren song
54:16
where they made the main character I just forgot his name. They like tied him to the mass of the
54:20
ship so that he wouldn't be a seduced by the sirens, right? Because it was it was going to
54:25
compel him to where he wouldn't be able to stop. We don't live in that world where there's a
54:31
compulsion that we can't stop from, you know, going towards things. I think it's the Odyssey and it's
54:35
Odysseus. Yeah, that's right. He says timey and don't don't let me go no matter what I say.
54:40
Right. Don't let me go to the sirens. And that that is a great biblical message
54:45
of being in brotherhood with people. Don't let me go. But there's also there's a contrast here.
54:50
Like wisdom says, whereas the woman of folly calls and is loud and there's no
55:01
mistaken. You can hear it. There's a reason she's loud. There's a reason she calls and doesn't just
55:07
say something to it because to say something is just like, Jake, what's up? But like a loud call,
55:12
like that she has to be loud. She has to overpower the voice of wisdom to get people to come drink
55:20
and eat of her wares. And we should be mindful of that. It takes some discernment. Like you got
55:26
to understand which one which one is offering because they're they're both I wrote down that
55:30
each is searching for the willing. And we're the willing one way or another kind of back to your
55:34
point, Kyle, like this whole I fell into it thing. You're the willing one way or another. You were
55:39
either the willing on seeking wisdom, or you were the willing on stepping into the house of folly,
55:45
you know, the house of the structures. You weren't tricked. That's the thing when I told
55:49
these guys is like, this wasn't a whoopsies. Right. And so, you know, I the devil made me do
55:54
it thing a lot of times is that's your your flesh. You you fed it so much. Yeah, there's
55:59
been there. I've been there. Yeah, there's intention behind everything. And so, you know, I know we
56:04
talk about Jobe all time, but he'll have someone come up to him after church and be like, the devil's
56:08
attacking my finances. And then he'll have them he'll have them describe what they mean. And he goes,
56:13
Oh, I'm glad you told me all that devil's not attacking your finances. You are you got a
56:17
spending problem, right? Like, this isn't the devil. This is you. And so when it's like, yeah,
56:21
the devil made me do it. It's like, no, bro, like you you allow Satan to tempt you because you open
56:26
the door. You crack the doorway open. So there's a guy that I know that you have a problem with
56:30
pornography and masturbation. And so there was a situation with his spouse where he was going to
56:34
be doing a lot of traveling and things like that. And so they had a discussion with a counselor
56:38
about him being able to when he was gone to masturbate thinking about her. And the counselor,
56:46
you know, Christian counselor came to the conclusion, um, hey, there's maybe some
56:50
differences of a difference of opinions. But he's like, in my opinion, I think that that would be
56:54
okay. Like, I don't know that that would be a problem theologically, but there, there certainly
57:00
can be a debate. And so the husband and wife got to discuss it and what the, what the husband
57:04
decided was, no, because when the Bible describes sexual immorality is describing any sex outside
57:12
of the covenantal companionship of a husband and a wife. So even if you're thinking about,
57:17
I know this is a little crass guys, but this is on Donald life, a man's podcast. But even if
57:20
you're thinking about your spouse, you were having sex with you. Like that, that's what
57:27
you're doing. You are using your body to pleasure your body, regardless of where your mind goes,
57:32
right? And are you really going to be so disciplined, even if you, you could to only think about your
57:37
spouse in that moment while you're in the hotel room and things like that? Like, no, like, don't
57:41
fighting temptation. Right. And so that's the exact point, Jake, is you have cracked the door open.
57:45
People talk about Pandora's box. Oh, you've opened Pandora's box. It's like, no, no, Satan is just
57:49
on the other side of the vault door. And you're giving him the combo, right? But even more so than
57:56
that, you're plugging in, like you're opening it up and you're just cracking the vault door and
58:01
you're looking out to see he's there, guys, he's there. So don't invite stop it at the beginning of
58:09
the process, right? And we have no idea that the dead are there. What a haunting way to end that
58:15
he does not know that the dead are there that her guests are in the depths of shield.
58:20
Which you don't get out of. Nope. Yeah, you don't get a redo if you end up in shield. Yeah. So guys,
58:27
there's certainly more that we can talk about in terms of Proverbs 9, but we're going to leave
58:30
it there. But guys, come back here next week where we are going to dig into Proverbs 12. So make
58:35
sure you read Proverbs 12. So you're ready to go for next week. But before we let you go,
58:38
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