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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the forging table, the mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push
1:00
back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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So at the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:07
by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey.
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That's Jake.
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That's Ryan.
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That's Matt.
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Guys, we're digging into Nehemiah 8 today.
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And so I think I really enjoyed what we talked about last week with Nehemiah 7 because it's
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like, okay, there are certain books of the Bible where it seems like, oh, this is just
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chock full stuff and there's so many things and you can just camp out there and there's
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others that you feel like you can skip and you shouldn't skip because there's an entire
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narrative of Nehemiah, but as we pointed out, I think last week, there's an entire narrative
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of Ezra and Nehemiah because those books used to be combined.
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And so we see at the very beginning of verse 8, this is the first appearance of Ezra,
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the man of God in the book of Nehemiah, but again, his story started in the book of Ezra.
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So that's very, very important.
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But when we get into the first part of this, this chapter, especially the first five verses,
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we see that these people are coming together early in the morning and they are worshiping
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and hearing the word read over them until midday.
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Most of the commentaries I read put this at between five and six hours.
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So we live in this moment where if you go to a church where if the service lasts longer
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than an hour or if, you know, somebody gets visited by the Holy Spirit and all of a sudden
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you're going to be late to church's chicken, it becomes like a major issue for your day.
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And we have at this time, it was just old hat, it was just normal for them to have the word
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read over them for two to three hours and then to worship for two to three hours.
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And we just, we don't live in that time or place now.
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And then we also don't have a reverence for that either.
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And verse five, you know, as the book was being read, as the word was being read, all
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the people stood and they stood the entire time.
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And I know that, you know, Jake, you have a Catholic background.
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So it's up, down, up, down, up, down.
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But then there are certain churches where like if there, if the worship sets going long,
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they will take a break and let everybody sit down.
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They'll be like, all right, everybody sit down.
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But out of reverence for the word, these people stood for hours and hours at a time.
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And I was just struck just to kick off the discussion here at the beginning.
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I was just struck by how different they worship than how we do today.
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And we could probably talk about the difference between our worship and how emotion-based
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it is versus the reverence that you're talking about.
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I mean, they viewed the book of the law of Moses as the word of God.
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That was it.
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It was the word of God.
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So yeah, they had reverence for it.
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And I think sometimes so often, excuse me, we are driven by what
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feels good.
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And as a church, we judge our success by butts and seats.
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And when there aren't butts and seats, we go back to the drawing board and we go back to
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the customer's always right.
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And I've recently watched a guy talk about this and I can't remember his name, so I apologize.
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He said, we're half right.
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We've got it half right, but all wrong.
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The customer is always right.
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Who's the customer?
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The customer and consumer of our worship is our holy father.
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It's not man.
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It's not the people in the seats.
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So a church with five people reverently worshiping and reading the word and preaching the gospel
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is more powerful than a church with 10,000 people who only go surface level.
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And that's one of the things that I took out of this was your church doesn't have to be big,
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but worship the way God tells us to worship and he does tell us how to worship.
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Church isn't about you.
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It's about God.
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Yeah.
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And that's what we're seeing here is like there, this is about God right now.
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This is about what God did for them and how God provided a wall on Jerusalem and provided
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the men to do it.
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And so the worship services, you know, what brings us back to the holiness of who God is.
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And that's God's law.
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God's law is holy.
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That's where we measure ourselves up that we know we'll never be able to attain that
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beautifulness as Christ did.
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And that's why he was the ultimate sacrifice.
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But when it comes to church, you know, it's just it's about God.
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We have to remember that, you know, worship may not be my favorite thing within my church,
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but I don't go to church because I like the worship music.
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I don't go to church because I like a 15, 20 minute sermon.
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I go to church because that's the reverent thing to do.
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And that's what's going to bring me closer to God and knowing the conviction of what I need to savor.
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I mean, so I think we start looking at church that way and not looking at church over ourselves.
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I think there's some truth to that.
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But I think at the same time, there's a call to the modern church and specifically the church
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in America to not cater to what people want.
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And the songs that we sing and are very indicative of our theology.
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I think I said this to you guys in a text the other day.
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We people often sing their heresies before they believe them.
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And if you're not singing worship songs, Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs
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that are based in biblical theology, that are speaking gospel truths and speaking scripture,
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you're in danger.
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I'm not saying this happens all the time, but you're in danger of that becoming your theology
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because that gives you an emotional high.
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And man, worship, worship music just was so amazing.
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And you didn't even hear about sermon.
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My favorite pastor Andy Swart was under his tutelage for like two years.
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Said at the end of the day on Monday, they're not whistling my sermon.
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You know, and at the end of the day on Monday, we're not going back to the sermon where
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that music is still in our heads that, you know, we're whistling that song that probably
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played a role in bringing us to God. And hopefully that song that's bringing us
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is to God is not emotionalism. It's not, you know, Jesus is my boyfriend, something, you know,
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which is why I'm saying the Psalms. Calvin called the Psalms the anatomy of the soul.
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And the Psalms are also the beautifulness of God as well, you know, so it's his...
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I didn't do it this time, guys.
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So I think it's important as well.
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And so the ghost fifth member of every forging table, Joby Martin, who just kind of covers
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over our conversation. Sorry, Joby.
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I remember him talking, he and I were talking when he and I first became friends about worship
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music and like, okay, are the songs from like Hillsong and Bethel and Elevation like, are these
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redeemable because of what those, you know, are the precursor to the sermons that are
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theologically bankrupt and, you know, a biblical and all that. And he said before, he's like,
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I've had our band change the songs because it's like, y'all aren't going to sing stuff that's not
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true. And so they, they, as far as I understand it, they create original music, but then they also,
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you know, we'll sing other people's music. And like, that's the thing that's important. It's like,
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yeah, we will just change lyrics to Psalms. It's like, we're not going to sing that.
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And I even heard Alistair Begg, I think second Alistair Begg mentioned in the last couple of weeks,
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but Alistair Begg was asked during a Q&A at a recent, you know, preachers conference or
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pastor's conference or something like that about like, hey, should our congregations,
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this is another pastor asking him during the Q&A, should our congregations sing songs from these
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places because of, you know, is it, is it fruit of the poisonous tree to where it's like, yeah,
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it's a nice song and it's, it's easy, it's catchy. And, you know, our band likes it,
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but should we sing it? And his, his perspective, if I can remember to summarize it correctly, was
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some of those songs, like, in and of themselves are not to be sung because there's nothing redeemable
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in them, but then not every single one of those songs that are produced by those groups are
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in and of themselves, unredeemable. Yeah. And so it's like that, that doesn't, that means that
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they can be sung as is there's some that means that they can be sung with, with alterations or
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changes. But I think that that that's important. But go ahead, Ryan. You bring up a great point
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in like worship music. So like elevation worship, I almost feel like they're more
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theologically correct in their songs than most of Fertix's sermons. Yeah. And so it's like,
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do I take away elevation worship because of Fertix sermons? And I don't, you know, I'm going to,
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I'm going to pull out the good ones. I'm going to pull out the bad ones. And I think that's
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where we find what is redeemable and unredeemable because there's a lot of good stuff that comes
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out of elevation. That's biblical. And we can't just take that away because Fertik, you know,
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it doesn't toe the line to quote Matt and I Sunday school teacher.
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The one and only Terry Fakes who is fantastic. That's F E I X for you. I'm paying attention.
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He's got a great podcast as well. Terry Fakes. Yeah.
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He always talks about with the with the Bible with the word. He said, let it be what it what it
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let the Bible be what it wants to be. Let the Bible be what it wants to be.
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I think you're going to apply it to worship music too. 100%. You're going to apply it to worship music
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too. Let it be what it wants to be. And I think, but I mean, wait a minute, I don't quite understand.
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Sure, sure. So I think there's a lot of, you know, when you're talking about
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some of the bands that are preparing music for some of these pastors who are not theologically
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sound, you know, there may be truth in them. They're, you know, it may be okay. You're singing these
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songs. And I think a lot of times, at least in my opinion, I think a lot of times it's okay. Maybe
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if you're somebody who's starting out and you're hearing this music and maybe there's some things
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that aren't necessarily true in them. Where's your heart in it in that worship? Where is your heart?
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I mean, are you, are you singing it because it's a catchy song? But is it also something that maybe
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I actually, you know, maybe it's just like, I'm dipping my toe in the water here. I'm trying.
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This is my first effort. And, you know, because I think sometimes as you start digging deeper into
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the word and you gain more knowledge, you start realizing that, Oh man, I'm singing some stuff.
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This is boyfriend God. This is ATM God. I don't need these. That's not the God I worship.
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But in the beginning, you may not have that level of discernment. And I mean, I guess I would say,
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offer yourself a little bit of grace if you are listening to some of these worship songs,
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because you may not know it yet. But that's also, again, what we've talked about in previous weeks,
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you're going to have to do a lot of hard work after you have your heart change.
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When doctrine is important, like you can't have right feelings about God unless you have
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right thoughts about God, unless you have truth about God. And I think everyone at this table
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would be a defender of capital T truth, like we, you know, we live in this postmodern moment.
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But within this discussion that we're having here, you know, Brian, you're saying, you know,
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church is not about us. Right. And so that's, I think we would all agree. Hey, church is not about
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us. But I think the church acting in the way that it does, specifically the seeker sensitive
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movement where we are going to coalesce all of our resources around this ideal non-Christian that
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we want to attract here. It leads to the church is almost like taught us that, hey, the Bible's
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about us too. Because if church is about you, then what about the Bible? And that's the thing
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whenever you see people, you know, going back to whenever Matt Chandler almost burned down Stephen
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Furtick's church like 10, 15 years ago, when, you know, Stephen Furtick invited him to be a guest preacher
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and, or it was at a conference or something like that. And Matt Chandler basically screamed at the
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elevation congregation and said, you are not David. When you read the story of David and Goliath,
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you are not David. Your struggles at work are not Goliath. Like that's not the word the Bible is
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not about you. And Stephen Furtick's literally sitting on stage like melting, like the entire
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time. Because I literally preached a sermon about that, probably a few. So you guys should definitely
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check that out on YouTube if you haven't gotten there. But that's, that's the thing is I feel like
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the church is teaching us churches about you. The Bible's about you. God is about you. And like
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categorically, it's like, I think we, we forget where we should be in that continuum.
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The church I went to before I went to the church that we're going to now, I mean,
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their slogan now is God is for you. And so are we, you know, great slogans, really nice. Listen to a
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sermon where the pastor talks about reading the Bible. He's like, where you, where, you know,
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when I read the Bible, I want to see where am I, where, where am I at in this story? I'm like,
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that's the worst thing to tell anybody on how to read the Bible. Where am I at in this story? No,
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what's going on in this story? What's the context of the story? What can I pull from the story
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to learn? Not, oh man, I'm David. My troubles are Goliath, you know, and it's just the pragmatism of
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churches. We have this pragmatic approach that if we make everybody feel warm and fuzzy, like,
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like for some reason, like Christ needs like a new marketing agent. And these guys think they're
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the best, you know, and it's like, no, God's going to market himself. He doesn't need you.
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I think there's nothing inherently wrong with looking at how that plays out in your life.
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But I think you have to make an honest assessment because if you think you're David,
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you're looking at the Bible incorrectly. More realistically, you're one of the people in God's
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army who refuses to go fight Goliath or you're a Pharisee or you're not the good guy in the story.
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And you're the one that needs salvation. And so, yeah, I can find myself in the Bible all over the
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place. You know where I see myself? Like, it's, it's the sinner. In comparison to David, I see myself as
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the dulcher, you know, the sinner. I don't see myself as the hero.
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I think the other problem when you actually start trying to pull these stories out and apply them
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to your own life, it's like, well, I'm David and this is Goliath. I want to think about who you're
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putting in that other seat because it's probably a person. There's probably a group of people.
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And in the grand scheme of things, they're God's children too. You're putting them,
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I mean, you're putting them in a seat of judgment, not in a seat of mercy by trying to say that,
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well, I'm David in this fight in your Goliath or I'm Joseph and you are my brothers. There's not,
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you know, you just, you're putting people in a seat that God does not want them in either.
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Yeah. Also Goliath is sin and you can't overcome your sin.
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That's right. I do have a little bit of pushback though. We're not all God's children.
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We're all his creation. We're all his creation. We're not his children, not all of us are his
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children. We have to remember that. You know, that's what brings us into the holiness of who God
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God is. That's what brings us into the lamb's book of life. But just looking at Nehemiah,
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you know, when I read this, I'm not looking at this as, oh, I'm Nehemiah man. Look how I'm leading
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people at work. You know, I'm looking at this as like, man, I need God. I need God to take control
15:59
in certain situations because I can't do this on my for sure. Do you feel I don't,
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this just popped in mind when you said that when people are like, oh, the scripture should be like
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a mirror for you. I don't know if the scriptures are necessarily a mirror or if they're a poster.
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And so like, I'm not holding up the book of my Nehemiah as a mirror for me to see how much of my
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reflection I can see. I would look at Nehemiah as a poster on the wall with all the good and bad
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of what this story is and how it relates to the overall arc and narrative of the Bible itself
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and the story of the gospel. And so because if you think of scripture as a mirror, you're constantly
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looking for yourself in the words of scripture. And the thing that's odd about that is we do that
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with modern entertainment. So if you're reading, you know, the latest Stephen Pressfield novel,
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you're putting yourself into the main character shoes when you're watching, you know, John Wick
16:54
Ford and you're like trying to figure out like, okay, you know, where would I fit in? Or like,
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what would I do? Like, we constantly do that. We want to see ourselves reflected in the entertainment
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that we're taking in. And then we compare ourselves to this, this hero or this courageous person or
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this beautiful person or whatever. But for me, it's like, I feel what helps me is to not think of
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the scripture as a mirror, but as like, as, you know, just literally like it's, it's not the movie,
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it's the movie poster, it's something that I should look to. I see what you're saying there. Like,
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you know, I look at it as a guide. It's a guide, you know, on how I need to live my life based upon
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what's happened to people throughout this thing. I am not those people, but I can learn from their
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goodness, the good things that they did and I can learn from their mistakes. I mean, it's just like
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parenting my parents did great things. My parents also did things that I want to change. And so when
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I read the Bible and I read what the Israelites did, I look at the good things like where we're
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going to go into here of standing and reading word and God's law, that's something that I need to
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probably do more of. When it comes back to them breaking the covenant, you know, hundreds of
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years beforehand, that's something I need. Oh man, where am I doing that? You know, what am I doing
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in my walk? So, and usually what you that could lead into legalism to a point if you're thinking
18:11
you're breaking a covenant, I don't ever look at like, Oh, where am I breaking my salvation or my
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covenant? It's like, no, where do I need to let my pride down? Where do I need to put more trust in
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in God? Where do I need to change in my certain walk and walk away from my flesh?
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I think it's encouraging to look at the heroes of the faith or the people that God uses,
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they're all crooked pencils that God's using to make straight lines. And if there's not encouragement
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in that for you, I would, I would suggest to go read that again, because all of these outside of
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Christ, all of these people in here are sinful, depraved people that God uses for his glory.
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If you don't think that God's going to use you for his glory, even though you are also
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a sinful, depraved being, like, I would encourage you to rethink that because God's God's going to
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use you. God use Nebuchadnezzar. Yeah. When I think, I mean, look at verse eight, so they read from the
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book from the law of God, clearly, and they gave the sense so that the people understood the reading.
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I think this is important as well. So if you're not an expository preacher, and you're trying to
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build out your four week life lesson, and then back end scripture into it,
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are you going to be teaching the scripture clearly to where people can understand it?
19:37
They're going to understand your lesson, but they're not going to be understanding scripture.
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The same could be said for the person that goes all the way to the other extreme,
19:45
where they're so smart, and they know they're smart, and they know they can string together a
19:49
bunch of words that make them sound even smarter. And they also know that dumber people like to
19:54
like smarter people so that they themselves can feel a little smart, like they know it's smart.
20:00
It's like people that like certain bands or certain movies that are just dog crap, but like
20:04
all the all the people that are like the high and mighty people are like, Oh, no, this is a
20:07
fantastic film and they're like, Oh, I, I like that too. And it's like, no, it's a crappy movie.
20:12
You're just saying you like it because all the critics said that the whale was horrible.
20:15
It was the worst movie I ever watched. Okay, well, we get into that.
20:18
But like, I think that's part of the thing too. Like there is, how can you clearly present
20:25
the Bible and the scripture unless you're doing it expositorly, unless you're you're
20:29
exegeating as opposed to isegeating. That's that's what would make sense to me. Great point, Kyle.
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You did a great job. I'm still thinking about how I want to hang out here for a bit because
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if you're not doing that and you don't like you don't know what the word says and you don't know
20:50
God's truth, like you can get to a place where you just don't know that worship song is
20:59
not grounded in scriptural truth because you don't know. And if you if you're, you're singing these
21:06
songs or you're doing these things that a pastor says is okay, and you're not lining that up with
21:12
scripture, you're not just doing your own, your self harm, you could be harming your children,
21:20
your wife, people around you that you're ministering to can become the victim of that
21:29
bad theology, that theology kills people. So I do want to say this. I feel like we're being a
21:36
little rough on church. Okay. I mean, sure. I mean, you're, you know, nobody's going to bat 1000 on
21:41
this stuff. I mean, they're just not, you know, and I know, like, you know, Matt and I have had
21:46
discussions about like, well, this sermon, how do we feel about that at our church? You know,
21:51
positive, negative, you know, what was the purpose of that? It's not real convicting.
21:57
Is it a welcome map to the church? How are we handling this? I think when you go back to Nehemiah
22:01
here, going through those first six verses, you have a whole community who gathered to hear it.
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Okay, so there's a church. There's a church. There's a church.
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They anticipated the reading with a great sense of reverent expectancy. Okay, they were there to
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hear the word. They wanted it. They craved it. They desired it. And they listened attentively
22:24
throughout a lengthy exposition, five hours, seven hours, whatever that might be. How often
22:30
are we? I mean, most people, like people who are strong Christians, we go to church. And we're
22:35
checking our watch just like everybody else who just started coming there on Sunday. We're ready
22:40
to get out of there in an hour. You know, what I actually look at this is, you know, I always,
22:45
for me, it was not until I started trying to plug in with other people in my same phase of
22:54
life. It was not until I tried to start doing that and connecting with people that I started
23:00
craving more of the word. And I'm gonna go, I'm gonna read a verse from Psalm here, Psalm 13313,
23:07
"Behold, how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity. It is like the precious oil on
23:13
the head running down on the beard, on the beard of Aaron running down on the collar of his robes.
23:18
It is like the do of Herman, which falls on the mountains of Zion. For there, the Lord has
23:22
commanded the blessing life forever more. Unity is so important. Being around fellow believers is
23:30
so important. BMI had just built the wall. And now they're having a church with a group of people
23:38
who are learning the word or further protection. They gathered as one man. So clearly there's unity
23:45
there. And that's, I think where it comes down for churches is, you know, we've got to find a way
23:51
to better disciple our people. I mean, that's what they're doing right now. They read from the book
23:55
from the law of God, clearly, and they gave this sense so that people understood the reading.
24:00
How are we going to, how is somebody who's a new Christian for those pragmatic seeker-sensitive
24:06
churches? How are they a new Christian and you're not going to disciple them in the word?
24:11
And so I think that's something that we have to look at. Numbers are great, you know, but in those
24:16
numbers, are we feeding those seeds? I mean, are you just going to be the seed scatter?
24:21
That's just going to scatter seeds and just hope that they pop up, you know, but are you going to
24:25
actually tend to the garden? And so that's where I just feel like, you know, churches with this
24:31
pragmatic approach could take a bigger step in discipling their people. And it also takes like,
24:37
what you said, you know, it takes, it takes, you've got to get yourself plugged in. You know,
24:43
if the, if it's there and the church has set it up for you, like we have our adult Bible study
24:47
fellowships and it's there, go do it. Go get with people who are like-minded with you going
24:52
through the same type of life that you are and dive into the word together, dive into
24:57
anything that you guys can there that's going to, that's going to lead you to a path of discipleship.
25:03
And so I think that's what we need to get. And some encouragement on the Bible study front.
25:08
I do think it's important finding a group of, you know, talking to men today, find a group of men
25:14
that you've, you know, and have a relationship with because real, like real conversation can come
25:21
out of those, those Bible studies. I mean, real Frank vulnerable talk going in and just joining
25:29
one where you don't know anybody, you're not going to feel comfortable. So it's important to actually
25:34
go in and say, I'm going to join this Bible study because I know these three guys and I know them
25:40
well and I have a relationship. When I turned around and decided to, I'm going to start walking
25:45
with Jesus again, I tried to go to a Bible study with five random guys, did not know them from
25:50
Adam and I went once and then I bailed. I'm going to do the plug for you, Kyle. Go back and listen
25:56
to Kyle's foxhole episode talks a lot about that. We, we, we, the talk comes from doing with each other.
26:04
And guys, guys relate to each other doing things shoulder to shoulder. Women relate to each other
26:11
doing things face to face. The face to face comes, but it's after the shoulder to shoulder. So what
26:15
you're talking about is literally what Kyle's mission is on this earth is to help guys understand
26:22
and to get into those types of relationships to say, okay, let's do something together.
26:26
And then from that, we can now discuss these things, which is really what the forging table is about
26:36
is guys who know each other that can dig into the word together on that. Excuse me. That's what
26:42
that's why I think the the modern men's ministry. I think the model is broken. The modern men's
26:50
ministry, because it's the exact thing that you said, excuse me. Yeah, everyone gave me your
26:58
throat. Well, I'm just getting bad. I already gave you mine. I remember being a part of this
27:04
organization. And I asked him, this was a men's ministry. I helped start way back in the day.
27:09
And I asked him, you know, what's, what's the number one goal of all the goals? What's the number one
27:15
goal for what we're doing here? And they said to get guys into small groups. I was like,
27:21
that's it. Now you could say, you know, to spread the gospel and make Christians, but like the
27:27
main goal of this ministry was that. And I just remember being like, so a stranger walks in. And
27:35
there's a group of five guys over there and you just saying, Hey, grab your Bible and go sit down
27:40
and start, start talking, open up your heart. And again, that's, I saw how men are wired,
27:47
men will connect, I had a ball to eyeball after they've done something shoulder to shoulder. And
27:51
that thing needs to be difficult, typically. But again, we don't, we don't really think in those
27:57
terms. And it's just because, you know, the overall, the ideal is broken. And so people are
28:04
trying to reinvent an ideal that already sucks. And it's like, no, no, you need to start with
28:09
a new ideal. That's why when I talked to people that are pastors at churches and they're concerned
28:13
about their church's men's ministry, or creating a good men's ministry, I said, no, that's the wrong
28:17
question. The question is, is our church man friendly? That's the question. Because if your
28:22
church isn't man friendly, it doesn't matter what your men's ministry is. So y'all's church that
28:27
y'all go to I remember years ago, they did something called beast feast. And I think they still did
28:31
it. And it's, it's there once a year, let's, let's get together, let's eat meat and let's have a guest
28:36
speaker. And then we'll call it good. And the person who was in charge of beast feast or men's
28:40
ministry, he was in charge of 17 other things at the church and men's ministry was at the very end.
28:45
And it's like shock of all shocks, y'all don't have a very vibrant men's ministry.
28:49
Then it's like, we need to focus on the church being man friendly from top to bottom. That starts
28:54
with senior pastors modeling and how he teaches. And then it goes into the music and the, the words
29:00
that are being sung and the key that they're being sung in. And then it's like, if you focus on that,
29:05
you're not, you're not gonna have to worry about having enough men volunteers. You're gonna have
29:08
to worry about what are we going to do with all these volunteers?
29:11
It's interesting. I think that's a great point that you bring up because I do think that sometimes
29:15
yes, church has struggled with being friendly towards men. I mean, because overall, I mean,
29:20
society is not really friendly towards men right now. You know, it's just not cool to talk positively
29:25
about men. And so for, I know for our church, I mean, and I think this is where I would actually
29:31
talk to men who who feel like, you know, you don't have that mission in your church that is
29:36
trying to guide, you know, husbands and fathers and just men in general. If you don't have that,
29:43
start it. Matt and I go on a fishing trip every year that was started by seven guys in the church.
29:50
And it has ballooned up to over 60. So you can see there was a real desire for it. We go,
29:57
we go down to Broken Bow, we go fly fishing for a couple of days. It's not real programmatic. It's
30:02
basically like you have a couple of things here and there that we do as a as a group. But overall,
30:06
it's just guys being shoulder to shoulder, talking about things, people end up breaking up into small
30:12
groups going to do different stuff. They hike, they bike, they go fishing, they golf. I mean,
30:16
there's all sorts of things. But it was all started by just a few guys in the church decided they
30:21
wanted to get together and go on a fishing trip. And sometimes it's like, sometimes you have to be
30:26
the pebble in the shoe of the church. Okay. Be willing to go ahead and put yourself out there,
30:31
find that small group of guys that you know you can bond with. And then don't be afraid to say,
30:36
I'm going to go do this. And then see where it grows. Because like I said, I mean, Aaron,
30:42
Michael Russell, seven guys started that started that fishing trip. And we had over 60 people with
30:48
that, at that trip this year, like four houses. And that's kind of where our friendship really
30:52
started to grow was, was there. And I think if your mindset is, I want more, I want this fellowship,
31:00
I want this unity. Yeah, then just go, go do it because it's there. People like guys want that.
31:05
And I put the same reason I think this is probably a successful episode every week is because guys
31:10
are seeking that. And they're longing for that. And I think at great point, we can wait for the
31:18
church all day long. But if we don't do it, but in our in our situation, the church is now
31:23
responded and they started an actual men's ministry with an actual men's pastor. Yeah. Yeah. And so
31:28
there there's certainly some important things there. But yeah, that's that's a good discussion in
31:31
terms of what the church looks like. Matt, could you read nine through 12? There's some good stuff
31:36
here. Yeah, this is part of my favorite part of chapter eight. And Nehemiah, who was the governor
31:42
and Ezra, the priest and scribe and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people,
31:46
this day is holy to the Lord your God. Do not mourn or weep for all the people wept as they
31:51
heard the words of the law. Then he said to them, go your way, eat the fat and drink sweet wine,
31:58
and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready for this day is holy to our Lord. Sorry,
32:04
for this day is holy to our Lord and do not be grieved for the joy of the Lord is your strength.
32:08
So the Levites calmed all the people saying, be quiet for this day is holy, do not be grieved.
32:16
And all the people went their way to eat and drink into sin portions and to make great rejoicing
32:21
because they had understood the words that were declared to them. So a few things, obviously,
32:26
at the end there, they understood the words that were declared to them. So the preacher didn't
32:31
do a TED talk. Also, they didn't, you know, talk in such a highfalutin way that nobody can understand.
32:36
But a couple of things here, the very beginning, you have Nehemiah, the governor, and you have Ezra,
32:41
the priest, and scribe. So that's the importance of a politician working hand in hand with a man
32:47
of God type of thing. Those don't necessarily have to be the same man, but those are the people
32:52
that need to be hand in hand. Imagine how different the United States of America would look in 2023
32:57
if our political class and our religious class or our Christian class were the same,
33:03
or we're working hand in hand. And then another thing is these people, they wept when they heard
33:10
the law. And just how often do we do that as Christians? I mean, we believe this stuff,
33:15
but the law doesn't bring us to tears. Like, you know, again, we want somebody to make us feel good
33:22
whenever we make a mistake. It's like when a three year old, they do something bad, and then
33:25
they start crying, and then you start consoling them. It's like, you little jerkier, the one that did
33:29
the bad thing to begin with, I'm not going to console you on top of that. But yeah, there's just a lot
33:34
there. So y'all go ahead and flow on that. The gospel was preached right here. The gospel was
33:39
preached. Like, yes, looking at the law, it should cut you. It should reflect your sin. It should
33:47
bring you to your knees. Acts says that Peter's words cut to the heart, because the word is the
33:53
sword. And it's no, it's no mistake that the word is described as a sword, because it should cut to
33:59
your heart. It should make you repent. And they were weeping because they knew they were in sin.
34:05
They knew that they stood before a Justin holy God, and they were in sin. They were outside of the
34:10
law. And then the so what moment was you are still in God's family. You are in salvation,
34:22
because God said it to be so like you don't have to. It doesn't end with you weeping.
34:29
It doesn't end with you being sorrowful, because God, God is our salvation. The Lord is our salvation.
34:36
And I like to miss that the gospel is being preached right here is something that we can't
34:41
miss because there it is right in front of us. I think that's the point of the celebration was
34:44
that God's covenant was still the same that day that it wasn't going to be any when he gave it to Abraham.
34:49
Yeah. And it's just like, that's a beautiful thing. It's like, all right, we're weeping because we
34:55
can see what we've done. We know why we were in exile. We know why Jerusalem was destroyed.
35:00
And it was because of us. Just like Kyle said, it's because of the three year old did the wrong
35:03
thing. And God didn't just sit there and kiss on their boo boo. No, they saw it. And he was like,
35:08
but my covenant is still the same. Go celebrate. I'm the same today. It's just like, yeah, I'm the
35:13
same today as I am tomorrow and the next day. You know, and so that's where it just comes down to
35:18
is like, God's the same, no matter what we, what we say. And we need to rest in the fact of his,
35:26
his righteousness. I think what's remarkable here is not only how God is the same, but also how human
35:32
beings are also the same. Okay. You have, you have these people crying because they're, they're
35:41
suddenly realizing, Oh my gosh, the way that we've been doing things is not how we're supposed to
35:46
be doing things. We've fallen really short of how of God's standard and how we're supposed to live.
35:54
We've fallen short of that. And then you find that joy and you go, you know, I'm going to quote Thomas
36:00
Edison, I have not failed. I have found 10,000 ways that haven't worked. We try things all the time
36:07
to just avoid what God says. We try. He's like, well, let me do this on my own. Let me, we don't take
36:14
things to God first. We decide, let me do this. You know, I'm not going to pray first. And, and
36:21
to this end, remember, it acts to when Peter's talking to this, he's talking to new Christians
36:28
in there. It's, it's for those who need to read it, it's acts to 37 to 39. Same things going on,
36:37
all these people gathered in front of Peter, and he's telling them, you've fallen short.
36:42
But it's okay. Like God's got a promise. God, it's an eternal promise. He's the same.
36:48
So it's essentially, it's like you've wandered from the standard. You are not doing what he wants,
36:53
but you have a way to get back. And that's an important context in all of this.
36:58
Oh, for sure. There is a way it's not a you send, but it's okay.
37:03
It is if you are in Christ, the, the, the old hymn before the throne of God,
37:12
when it talks about my name is written on his hand, my name is written on his heart,
37:15
like the God who is just is satisfied to look on him and pardon me. And if you are in Christ,
37:24
it's okay. That, that, what a powerful story. And again, that's something that we should constantly
37:30
remind ourselves of, of the, that gospel truth. I have, I have a question here for the group.
37:36
This day is holy. Is this another example of the Lord's day? The day that we should go to church,
37:45
we should participate in worship? Is this, is this happening on Friday?
37:49
Because the Sabbath would be Saturday. Yeah. So, so I'm asking, is this like you guys,
37:55
you guys read that this could be the holy day, like this is, this is the Sabbath, that they are,
38:02
that they are worshiping in, or am I reading too much into that? I would need to look into the
38:08
context because the next day they go and create booths. So I don't know because yeah, because I
38:13
realize they're in the feast of, of these. I guess my point is there is a day that the Lord has
38:19
declared for worship. And this, this day is holy because it's what I've called you. It's the day
38:26
I've called you to worship me. And, and Psalm, Psalm one, 10, three, your people will be willing in
38:34
the day of your power. Honestly, you probably are on to something as I'm kind of listening to you. I
38:39
think, yeah, this is, this is the Lord's day. And you have a people who are very willing and able
38:46
and have come with broken and contrite arts and want to make a change. And I think there's,
38:55
there's something to that. Yeah, I think we're obviously called to be in the world. We don't get
39:00
to retreat. We don't get to go into a monastery and just say, okay, I'm gonna read the word. And
39:05
that's it. I will never sin. I can be holy if I separate myself from the world. Like, if you're
39:11
reading that in the scripture, like, I think you've got it all wrong. We are very strictly told,
39:18
go proclaim the gospel to the world. But Stephen Lawson says it this way. He says,
39:22
we are to be a boat in the water, but not let the water into our boat. So yes, we are to go into
39:29
the world. And I think that's, I think that the church model of coming back for the holy day is,
39:36
all right, we're redocking. But then as soon as I mean, we're going, we're equipping to go back out
39:42
into the water, into the world to proclaim the gospel and your truth and to call more people to
39:49
salvation. And I, I can't help but think right there where they say sin portions to anyone who has
39:59
nothing. That is reclaiming the gospel. Like those people don't have they don't have salvation. Take
40:06
it to them because they don't have it. Like, again, the gospel is literally everywhere.
40:16
And man, what a cool, what a cool way to, to read the gospel in Nehemiah.
40:22
One thing I'm curious about from y'all's perspective, because in verses one through 12,
40:27
I mean, we spent the first half hour talking about essentially church and how church is done
40:31
and those types of things. I think this warrants at least a short discussion on online church,
40:37
because there are a lot of folks that, you know, they're doing the LaCray church close thing,
40:42
like, Oh, I don't need church, I'm gonna do me and I'm gonna do all that. And you know, a lot of
40:45
people kind of go that route. And I think that's kind of easy to point out and be like, no,
40:49
you're completely out of community. And like, that's not something you should be doing.
40:52
But then it does bring up a discussion about church online. Like, is that church? Is that
40:58
actually a community? When you have churches that are creating, not AI churches, but churches
41:04
that are like in the meta, like meta churches and things like that, where it's not even you
41:10
in the room, it's your your your your avatar, your man. It's your I'm an entire one of those.
41:17
But it's like it's it's your grand filter on my picture.
41:20
Yeah, they're a woman at Target. And so that's a yeah, you have to be you have to be equal here.
41:26
But like that that's something that I've I've always kind of struggled with, because, you know,
41:30
I remember when I was living in New York for a period, like I did church online. And that's how
41:34
I stayed sort of connected to to my home church. But I wasn't known by the online church, like,
41:40
because like there's always a screen between you and the person. And, you know, we're all really
41:44
good at wearing masks and putting up facades anyway. And so I'm wondering, like, if this is the day
41:49
that the Lord has made and everything that we see modeled in Scripture is a people coming together,
41:54
that there there's a line there because also air conditioning is not described here.
41:57
Amplification and microphones are not described in the Bible. And that's where, you know,
42:01
that's where I challenge people that have like a church Christ background because they're like,
42:04
we're not going to do anything in a worship service that isn't described in the Bible.
42:06
It's like, all right, we'll turn all these lights out because like that certainly was not described.
42:11
But I just I really struggle with with online church because I get the practicality of it for
42:16
people. I get the interesting thing like, hey, you don't live in this community, but you want to hear
42:20
this particular preacher sermon. And so you do it that way. I don't know. I just I have a lot
42:24
of mixed feelings on it. It's a it's a necessary evil. Sometimes I say about online church is like,
42:31
if my kids, I got two kids at home sick, maybe I'm sick, we'll watch online church. But I've seen
42:38
it used and gotten into some arguments with friends about it. But a lot of my friends who are,
42:44
what do you want to call it? Oh, not extrovert introverted. They're like, well, online church is
42:52
great for me because I'm introverted. I don't want to be around people. Like that's the point of
42:56
church. Point of church is get around your community and worship God as a community. And you can't use
43:02
your introvertedness to not follow what the Bible teaches and the Bible wants us to get together
43:09
and and commune with each other and worship God together. So there's there's some excuses used for
43:14
online church that people use. And it's really this whole wimpy, you know, I just don't want to feel
43:21
like going and stuff like that. Like it's being used for that. And it's it's not good. But some
43:26
people are using it for good. So your grandma sick and she doesn't want to get COVID. Right. So I
43:30
think everybody's with you on the on the sick thing. I wonder if it's like, if it wasn't even a
43:35
possibility, would people like just deal with it and not come to church sick necessarily. But like,
43:40
since it is an option, people are abusing it because they're using that. But if it's not an
43:44
option that would be there to abuse. I look at online church as a supplement. It's not a replacement.
43:50
Yeah, so I have daughters. People get sick. Okay, we can talk about the sickness thing. But
43:56
the the benefit of an online church is you're just you can display to your children
44:04
that church is still a priority. Like, okay, yeah, we can't be there physically. Like we're on a
44:10
vacation. We're gone on a Sunday. We're going to actually attend church online. You need to see
44:16
that this is a priority for our family. However, we need to be there. I think when you start thinking
44:24
about how important is a church and gathering with fellow believers? Think about the people
44:30
right now, like think about the early Christians who had to gather in secret that to go to these
44:35
homes, they had to find a community and they were putting a lot at risk. And then you see you look
44:40
at things like Christians in Africa and in China right now to very, very fast growing Christian
44:46
populations. They're still trying to meet. It's illegal. They can't do that. But yet they're still
44:52
trying to find that community. And I look at it and go shame on us that we think that there's
44:58
these people who are believing and are craving that community and that it becomes so easy for us.
45:04
We're willing to die. They're willing to die. And yet we sit over here and go, well, you know what?
45:12
I had a too late. I had a late night, you know, you know, I work. I got back into town late or
45:20
whatever it might be. I'm not feeling it this morning. You know, that's the one right there.
45:27
I'm not feeling it this morning. So I've decided that, you know what, it's okay for me just to go
45:33
ahead and do this. I don't, I don't really want to do. I'm just going to go online church and
45:38
just like anything else that's probably not good for you, it gets easier and easier and easier to
45:44
make excuses as to why that should be the accepted. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Like online
45:50
church isn't inherently bad in itself, but just like anything else. If that becomes our default,
45:57
because the, I mean, the word of God is pretty explicit. The gathering of the saints is a direct
46:04
call, the gathering. And if you're sick, okay, that makes sense. But I would even argue if a
46:14
church, if a church is functioning in a healthy way, even those that are sick are preached to
46:22
in a different way. Because as a pastor, I know you, I'm going to come check on you. And I'm going
46:27
to minister to you in your sickness. But then if you also, the other side of that, or another side
46:34
of that, maybe not the other side, but like, if we're looking at how God ordained and ordered the
46:40
world, Christ is the head of the church. And then there are overseers and pastors who are head of
46:47
local bodies. As husbands and fathers, we have been ordained as the head of our family church.
46:53
And if we don't make it a priority to lead our family in worship throughout the week,
47:00
and I could see how you could easily get to. Well, let's just, let's just go to,
47:05
let's pass it off to somebody. Let's go to online church. Right. I think that's important.
47:09
And that really gets into, oh, when the last things I want to talk about with Nehemiah 8,
47:12
and that's verse 13, on the second day, the heads of father's houses of all the people with the
47:18
priests and the Levites came together to Ezra the scribe in order to study the words of the law.
47:23
So the first 12 verses, we're talking about, you know, basically, they're doing these marathon
47:28
worship services. So they're, they're worshiping for two to three hours, and then they're having
47:32
the word read to them for two or three hours, they're standing in reverence there. I know they're
47:35
taking notes or if that, you know, this is more of a verbal culture. So are they memorizing stuff,
47:39
as is being said, but that's going on. And then in addition to that, the heads of the households,
47:46
the fathers are going to get extra study of the word of God. And I mean, I literally in my notes,
47:53
so I've got, I love this from, from Crossway. It's these, it's the Bible journals. And so the
47:59
scriptures on the left side and the SV, and then it's just open on the right. And I write,
48:02
this is the way. This is the way because we just talked about how people do things out of convenience.
48:09
So, you know, you're a lake person, or you like traveling to go to sports games, or you like,
48:13
you know, you're, you're traveling for work or all that. And then you catch, yeah, you might catch
48:18
two of the Sundays a month or something like that. So in addition to the, the call to when you're
48:25
there to be there when you're in town to be there, or even if you're out of town to still be part of
48:29
the body somehow, the men are getting extra direction. Why? Why would it be necessary and good for the
48:38
heads of the households to learn more things and to have a right ordering of themselves
48:44
to the Holy Scriptures, to the words of God? Could it be that they were ordained or chosen to be
48:50
the heads of their households to catechize their, their wives to lead to be the heads of their wives
48:57
and to catechize their children? Is that possible? But we live in this era now, where Sunday is enough,
49:05
as long as it's convenient. Oh, yeah, I know you're out of town this week. And I know you've been at
49:09
the lake the last like 10 weekends. And you know, it's just that, it's just that season. We're in
49:12
this busy season. We're in this, you said you're a CPA. Oh, it's a tax season. So I'm just going to
49:16
ignore being a Christian because numbers and spreadsheets are whatever it's time. And so,
49:20
but like, just, just think about that. Think about the modeling that's happening here,
49:25
because we don't go to a five to six hour worship service a week. We go to a 60 to 90
49:29
minute worship service a week. And then for a lot of guys, that is good enough.
49:34
I've done it. I've gotten everybody out of the door. You know, we fought on the way to church,
49:38
but we smiled on the way in. So we're good to go. But that right there, I just think about the
49:45
hours that these men are putting in to train themselves so that they can train others.
49:48
And Kyle is saying this, you're saying this to us and to yourself. And I know that about you,
49:53
because I just don't, I don't want somebody to listen to this and go, Oh gosh, they're really
49:57
railing. This is just as real in ourselves. Yeah, this is, this is convicting for us too.
50:02
And then that's, that's what the word does. Like when we, when we pull out these truths,
50:07
these are truths that we want to internalize as well. And as fathers and husbands,
50:12
like it's very convicting for me to see this and go, Oh man, am I a second day guy? Am I a
50:18
second day father? Or am I just a Sunday guy? If I'm even a Sunday guy and I may have just come
50:27
up with a slogan. I say, you're here on, you're here on Saturday. We should be striving to be
50:37
that we should be striving to be the head in that. I mean, we could talk for hours on what,
50:42
what it means to be the head of a family, but really it's
50:46
to lead your family toward God and toward Christ. We want to break it down basically.
50:55
So we should be leading in worship and man, that is convicting.
50:59
I think that's one thing that I kind of just kind of like just hit me about three or four years
51:05
ago. After we started going to this church and I was just, you know, I was that Sunday guy. I was
51:10
like, all right, if we lead them to church, great. If we don't, oh well, we'll move on. And finally,
51:15
we were just like, I was going to church more. I was diving into the Bible more. And then I read
51:21
a book by a Vodibachum called Family Shepherd's probably my favorite book of all time. And it's
51:25
just talks about how a father needs to lead his family. And I never had that. You know, my dad let
51:31
us, you know, we went to church every once in a while, but, you know, I wasn't leading my family.
51:36
I didn't have the biblical view of what a husband should be like, what a father should be like.
51:41
My dad did his best to show that, but we never read it together. We never looked at it and studied
51:46
it together. And reading that just totally changed everything. It's like God calls us to
51:52
disciple the nations. Man, where's the best place to start at home? You have children right there
51:59
that you can disciple and you can disciple them and they can go and disciple others while you're
52:03
discipling others. And it's just, it's, it's, it's something I feel like the mainstream church
52:09
nowadays is getting away from. I mean, like, we're not seeing man-friendly churches like we just
52:14
talked about. I remember seeing an ad for Father's Day service where the catch was an abbreviated
52:22
service. I'm like, you're going to tell me about that. You're going to abbreviate a service on
52:27
Father's Day. Like, this is the day where you can call men to leadership, call men to leadership
52:32
in their homes. And you want to abbreviate it to get them to show up so you can count them.
52:36
But isn't that so interesting because the Mother's Day service is where we just slop
52:40
or all over these women and tell them how great they are and how hard their job is and all those
52:43
types of things. I see a Bill Burjo coming up in the background, so all of you talking. But,
52:48
but then on Father's Day, it's like, it's, it's somewhere between, if you come here, we're just
52:53
going to rip you up and down for not being good enough or we're going to have such low expectations
52:58
for you that yeah, we're going to do a half-seize service today. You should get up. I would rather
53:03
get ripped apart on Sunday morning on Father's Day than to get a half-seize service. If anybody
53:09
should get ripped apart in the family, it should be the Father. Yeah. Like, we're the leaders. Like,
53:13
we're the leaders. We're called to lead. And I think we do men in disservice. And by we, I mean,
53:19
the church, by giving them an out and by telling them, hey, you showed up. That's awesome. Like,
53:27
you can't just show up. You got to show up, soft bigotry of low expectations. Yes, exactly.
53:34
Exactly. Exactly. The way I look at it is you still, I mean, again, shame on us for, I mean,
53:41
how convenient church is for all of us. There's no scarcity, not for us. I mean, we can go whenever
53:49
we want. We really can't. I can get on YouTube and watch a sermon. I can, you know, I can watch
53:54
last week's sermon over and over again. It's so scarce. We don't appreciate it. We are not thankful
54:00
for it. When my father passed away in March, okay, and I remember telling this to me, I remember
54:05
talking to some of the guys in our Bible study and my father had passed away on a Monday. We have
54:10
Wednesday morning Bible studies. I'm spending all Tuesday morning, Tuesday afternoon, planning,
54:17
funeral, going through things. It's a hard time. I was supposed to lead the Bible study that week.
54:22
I was in no frame of mind to do so. Somebody asked to take it and he goes, okay, well,
54:25
I'll see you in a couple of weeks. I said, no, I'll be there tomorrow because if there was ever a
54:30
time that I need to be somewhere, it's then it's when I'm low. I'm going to the lake house and I'm
54:37
going to the lake every weekend. Why would I not go to church on Sunday say, hey, thanks God.
54:41
I really like this lake house. This is pretty great. Thank you for this blessing.
54:45
All of these things that we have decided we can put in front of God and put in front of church that
54:51
we don't need. We don't need to be there every week to either thank him or ask him for help.
54:58
I go through busy seasons every fall, every spring as a CPA. I'm there on Sundays. You better
55:05
believe it. I don't care how much work I got. I was like, that's where my work starts. Work
55:08
starts on Sunday morning. You just quoted Kanye West. Hey, brother.
55:12
The strong start on Sunday, but like the reason good solid worship is so important. I'm going to
55:21
quote a Shane and Shane song. Psalm 42 from what I want. Can you actually say,
55:27
so just for the record, I quoted yay and you're quoting Shane and Shane.
55:31
So it's from, you have to wrap it. You have to sing it.
55:35
You don't want me to sing it. Believe it. Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs released in 2021.
55:43
It's one of my favorite albums, Psalm 42. It's kind of a play on, come now, found, but it is
55:48
streams of trouble never ceasing call for songs of loudest praise. And it is in those dark moments.
55:59
And every single one of us here could probably talk about those dark moments.
56:04
It is in those dark moments that God will reach, reach down if we're, if we're willing
56:10
to continue, excuse me, to continually come to worship him and pursue him is where we really
56:19
gain so much. And sometimes I think we fall into this trap of I'm going to, I'm going to become,
56:28
I'm going to come in on myself. I'm going to just, it's just me and my wife or it's just me and
56:32
my whoever. And we're just going to brace and try to get through it. But God says, no, this is the
56:37
time I want you to call on me. So that song is a really powerful song. Go ahead. Winkler rings
56:43
up a great point. I won't call you by your last name because I just want to talk about him or
56:47
the fawns. He's way cooler than the fawns. That's not true.
56:56
But you bring up a very good point. Like church isn't just about the sermon. Like we can listen
57:01
to sermons all day long. Church is about the community, the community of worshiping God
57:06
and how it fills the soul. Like you were in your times of trouble. Who did you go to? You went to
57:12
God. You didn't go to yourself. You know, and that's, I think the beautiful thing about church is not
57:17
just the sermon that I'm going to listen to on Sunday in my living room. No, it's the community of
57:22
worship. And that's what should get us out there to show up on Sunday. It requires work.
57:27
One another good Winkler point. I guess we are just going to call you by our last name. That's
57:31
fine. When you lose your father, but then you still uphold the importance and value of people
57:41
getting together to open up the Word of God, what you were doing is you're making a resilience
57:45
deposit. And so I talked constantly about cultivating spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
57:51
And I also talked to people about you daily have to make decisions, sometimes hourly,
57:56
to be resilient spiritually, mentally, or physically, because you're making deposits in
58:00
an account that you will need to take withdrawal from from at some point. And so the easiest way
58:05
to look at this is physically. If every morning you wake up and you know that you should exercise,
58:09
but you snooze four times or you roll out bed and oh, you're just a little bit sore and I'm just
58:14
going to listen to my body and not do anything today. And one of those things, like what you're
58:20
doing is you're making deposits in an account, but it's the weakness account. There are other
58:25
words for that account, but it's like your your current yes, and they will add up. And then when
58:30
you need resilience, you will not have the funds available. And so like, you know, for someone like
58:36
me, you know, I was just I was just on an interview the other day, like yesterday, and I've been on
58:40
the road this week, I'm getting ready for surgery. I'm doing all these different things, right? So
58:43
oh, look at me. This is a great week for me to be like, you know, I'm just going to take it easy.
58:48
I'm just going to I'm not going to expend, you know, unneeded energy and I'm not just, you know,
58:52
I'm just going to take it easy. But, you know, I did it. I've just done crazy hard workouts all
58:58
week because it's what discipline and resilience requires of me, because I don't know when I'm
59:03
going to need these physical resilience, you know, tokens or something like that. But I want there
59:09
to be as many of them there as possible mentally as well. Every time I sit in my garage and stare at
59:15
my weightlifting shoes before I put them on, I'm having to mentally make a decision to not just put
59:20
them back on the shelf and roll a curl back up in bed and go to sleep. It's, I don't want to do
59:25
this. No one else is doing this. No one else is awake right now. But I am. Okay, put the shoes on.
59:29
Let's time it's time to get after it. But that that's a big deal for the men as well. That if
59:34
you're the men in your life, guess what? You're not just putting deposits in those bank accounts
59:38
for you. You're putting deposits in that account for everybody else that depends on you. That's
59:43
what I was going to say. What a powerful message to preach to your wife and to your two girls of
59:47
this sucks. But I'm still going to go worship. I'm still going to get into the word. I'm still
59:54
going to pursue the Holy God who sent his son to die for me on the cross. Like what a powerful
1:00:00
message to preach. So kudos to you. And I know you'll say it's all God and I get that. But like
1:00:05
that is something that should be celebrated for your faithfulness and your steadfastness in that
1:00:10
in that situation. So that's that's amazing. And those little things are what kids remember.
1:00:15
Like have you I don't know if y'all have had this these discussions with your family, but like,
1:00:19
you know, I've had discussions with my dad before where I'll mention something that he said and he's
1:00:24
like, son, I don't even remember saying that. I was like, I know you don't. But you did.
1:00:28
And here I am 30 years later. And this is how it's affecting my life. And that could be
1:00:32
positive or negative or it's very rarely neutral. And so when you think about what your kids saw
1:00:39
and what you modeled for them in a big way after your father passes away, their granddad, but then
1:00:44
also in the small ways where again, we're bringing up the lake trip. So you're at the lake. It's
1:00:48
Sunday morning, as opposed to, you know, getting a late start and getting your breakfast going,
1:00:52
dad's got the laptop open. And everybody is not surprised. Everybody knows, hey, we're going to
1:00:58
church tomorrow morning, even though we're at the lake. And then as soon as service is over,
1:01:01
we're going to we're going to go get on the boat and we're going to enjoy our day. And then we're
1:01:05
going to come back home or whatever the situation is. It's constantly making those deposits and
1:01:09
making those those those correct decisions as you're categorizing and leading your family or as
1:01:14
shepherding. And to Ryan to your point earlier, that book, Family Shepherds by Vody Bockam, it is
1:01:18
a must have. It's a must read for anyone that has children that is on our 100 books, every modern
1:01:23
Christian man, Christian men should read list. It's one of two Vody Bockam books on that list.
1:01:28
The other one is fault lines, but absolutely fantastic book. I found out about that book
1:01:32
from you because you got it for me. And you know, that was a gift very early on in our friendship.
1:01:36
And it's an absolutely invaluable tool. But guys, there's there's a lot more that could be said
1:01:40
there about Nehemiah eight, but we're going to go ahead and leave it there for now. But come back
1:01:44
next Sunday where we're going to dig into Nehemiah nine. So make sure that you read Nehemiah nine
1:01:48
before we get here next week. But before I let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
1:01:51
Add on to life, our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual
1:01:56
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1:03:08
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