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1:00
(gentle music)
1:02
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it.
1:24
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:27
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men
1:29
to push back darkness with content
1:30
that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:33
At the forging table,
1:34
you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:37
by digging into God's Word,
1:38
and we're welcoming all of you to come along
1:40
on that journey with us.
1:41
Now, to my right is Matt.
1:43
Across from me is Ryan Hornba.
1:44
Who the heck is this an auras human being?
1:46
We got a newbie at the table, a guy named Jake Winkler.
1:49
Yes, it is actually his last name.
1:51
Jake, welcome to the forging table.
1:52
Happy to have you here.
1:54
Every time someone's on here for the first time,
1:55
they have to answer three questions.
1:57
And in total, you have two minutes,
1:59
saints are all three of these questions.
2:00
So numbers, and I always forget what my questions are,
2:03
and I have to like remind myself.
2:04
So number one, how'd you become a Christian?
2:07
Number two, how do you like to study the Bible?
2:09
And number three, how does your brain work?
2:11
So two minutes go.
2:13
Well, became a Christian in high school, I would say.
2:17
I was growing up, grew up Catholic,
2:19
but was with through confirmation and everything,
2:21
but really didn't know Jesus was saved in high school
2:25
in my junior year, and I think probably like most people
2:29
went on and off the path for a very long time
2:31
before I started finally committed
2:33
to trying to walk this path with Jesus.
2:36
The other thing I would say is, I guess question two was,
2:39
what was it?
2:40
I'm sorry.
2:41
I forgot two.
2:42
How do you study the Bible?
2:44
How do you study the Bible?
2:45
Well, I make a lot of notes, I study.
2:48
Generally, I like to kind of just dig in pretty deep.
2:51
I think I sent Matt a picture last night
2:54
of me studying the Bible.
2:54
I had about six different study Bibles on my desk,
2:56
trying to get through it all, but.
2:58
- Is there a translation that you like that you prefer?
3:00
- English standard version.
3:01
- Okay, I think that's all of us.
3:03
- Yeah, but I had a MacArthur Bible out.
3:05
I had a founder study Bible out.
3:06
I mean, it was just, I was all over the place.
3:09
And then, how does my brain work?
3:10
Well, I'm a CPA, so I'm very logic-based,
3:14
going to be very, I like evidence, I like facts.
3:18
And so, if I ever recommend reading or anything like that,
3:21
it's generally going to be something historical.
3:24
So, you know, favorite authors are going to be things like,
3:27
you know, like, I'd like Tim Keller's book
3:30
on the reason for God, which is really kind of hitting
3:33
on the doubters and pushing back on some of those, so.
3:38
- One thing that was, this is not the point today,
3:39
but one thing that I found interesting
3:41
when Tim Keller passed away earlier this year,
3:44
I remember it seemed like in the months leading up to that,
3:47
you know, there were a lot of people that,
3:49
there was a frustrate of some things that he would say
3:51
and some of the more cultural things that he would say.
3:53
It was almost like people lost sight
3:54
of some of the simple wisdom that he gave people,
3:57
because I've taken several atheists
3:59
through the reason for God.
4:01
- Yeah.
4:01
- Because it was an accessible apologetic book,
4:04
and the people have critiqued the book by saying,
4:07
well, yeah, there wasn't enough scripture in it.
4:09
And I was like, well, he wrote that book for a skeptic
4:11
that thinks the Bible is nonsense.
4:14
And then people are like, well, that doesn't matter
4:16
what they think, it matters what the Bible says.
4:17
I'm like, okay.
4:18
But like, the thing was, is that was a lot of people's
4:20
entry point into even opening up to being like, yeah,
4:24
maybe I should read the Bible.
4:25
Maybe the Bible isn't just a bunch of fables
4:27
that a bunch of people wrote and made up,
4:28
but that was just an interesting point that came to mind.
4:31
But today we're gonna continue our study of Nehemiah.
4:34
We're getting into Nehemiah 6.
4:35
And the interesting thing about Nehemiah 6 is,
4:38
Nehemiah 5 kind of like took a little bit of a detour
4:40
away from the main point of Nehemiah.
4:42
And then we get back into really the main point
4:44
of the book of Nehemiah, and that's, you know,
4:46
the rebuilding of the wall,
4:48
but also the opposition to the rebuilding of the wall.
4:52
And that's what we see here in the first chat,
4:55
or the first verses of chapter six,
4:57
is this is Sam Ballet and Gesham and Tobiah.
5:01
This is kind of their last ditch effort to,
5:04
we're gonna try to destroy this project.
5:06
And, you know, as we see that they're not successful,
5:09
but as we see in, I'm trying to read my own notes,
5:13
but in the first three chapters, they do four times.
5:17
We see at the beginning of verse four,
5:19
and they sent me four times in this way,
5:22
and they were trying to get him to come out of the city
5:26
so that they could do him harm.
5:28
And they were just relentless with it.
5:31
And so I guess the corollary here for me is,
5:34
guys, if you're ever under the thumb,
5:37
you feel like people are coming after you,
5:38
and you think they're just gonna do one volley.
5:41
It's like, no, you need to be ready for multiple volleys,
5:43
and it seems like Nehemiah was.
5:45
Yeah, I think he had a mission from God,
5:48
and I think, you know, we see that in our own lives
5:52
with our own, you know, our own walk
5:56
to not just you have a project, but even a walk,
5:59
like your walk with God.
6:00
And as you come to salvation,
6:02
I think a lot of people think, like, okay, I'm saved.
6:04
Everything's good.
6:06
And it's like, nah, it's not really how it works.
6:08
So you have the consistency and the persistence
6:11
of those three guys is pretty astounding.
6:15
And he's still steadfast in his faithfulness
6:17
to carry out what he's been called to do.
6:21
For sure, I kind of looked at how they attacked his character.
6:24
They're like, hey, you're gonna try to make yourself king
6:26
when he's already have a kind of a deal
6:29
or a trust with the king with Artaxerxes.
6:32
And they're like, hey, you're gonna try to make yourself king.
6:35
And then they go even a step further,
6:36
and they try to get him to desecrate the temple.
6:39
So it's like, hey, let's not just go after his name.
6:42
Now let's go make him do something
6:44
that will make his own people look at him with disgust.
6:47
- Well, and Ryan, even before we get to all that,
6:50
because there's so much, and this is a relatively short
6:53
chapter and there's so much there,
6:55
I'm even just looking at verse three
6:57
where he sent the message saying,
6:59
I am doing a great work and I cannot come down.
7:02
- Yeah.
7:03
- And so again, he knows they're trying to physically hurt him.
7:06
He knows that they're trying to really get after him,
7:08
but he's just like, hey, I'm busy.
7:11
Like, since he was like, hey, [inaudible] off.
7:12
Like, I got stuff that I need to do
7:14
and what you're doing, but go ahead.
7:18
- They also showed a lot of disrespect
7:19
in the letters that they sent.
7:21
- Mm, good point, yeah, yeah.
7:22
- Open letters to Nehemiah, which, you know--
7:25
- We'll talk about this again.
7:26
- Yeah, what's the context there?
7:27
- So the context there is that, you know,
7:29
usually with a closed letter, it means, you know,
7:32
hey, we don't want to make this public knowledge.
7:34
We want this to be between you and I,
7:36
and they're sending this open letters to him,
7:38
basically wanting to make everything public knowledge,
7:41
which they're going after his character.
7:42
- Right, well, he just--
7:43
- Let us, go ahead.
7:44
- No, that's also a sign of disrespect back then.
7:46
Like, if you have a, every letter was sealed
7:49
with that signet, so if it was open like that,
7:52
basically it's just a, I, we don't respect you at all.
7:55
This is public information.
7:57
You are in defiance of anti-zersis,
7:59
and that's, you know, you're just not going to,
8:04
you're not going to have this, I don't know,
8:08
I'm trying to put the words together here,
8:10
but you don't have the right, essentially,
8:13
to take the position that you are.
8:15
And I want to show the people that you're not at the,
8:19
you're not at the Davidic line,
8:21
so you don't have a right to the kingship,
8:23
and you're not their Messiah, which he wasn't, obviously,
8:26
but at the same time, you have intentions here,
8:30
and I think I look at it more of the, personally,
8:34
how often do you try and follow what God is telling you to do,
8:38
and how often do we get undermined in that pursuit
8:43
of what God's plan might be, because you know,
8:45
you have these issues of people trying to, you know,
8:50
I remember, like, after getting saved,
8:52
like how many people would come into you
8:54
that were in your life before that,
8:56
and would try and persuade you
8:58
into things that were ungodly, and it was constant.
9:02
It's just an assault on your character,
9:03
an assault on your integrity, constantly.
9:06
- So, yeah, and you use the word persuade.
9:08
Well, a couple of things are off the bat,
9:09
so that was your first commentary for the Forgy Table,
9:11
so congratulations, you've done it.
9:13
But, a couple of problems here, number one,
9:16
you wore a Cubs hat in my presence,
9:18
so that's a massive issue.
9:20
- You get a pound from me.
9:22
- No, stop it, yeah, I'll stop it.
9:23
Both of you, Cubs, Jack Braggs.
9:24
Number two, you gotta talk into the microphone.
9:27
- Oh, man, well, just move it up a little bit.
9:31
- Just move it up a little bit.
9:32
- So, can we, like, put it, like, actually in your face?
9:34
- It's that whole thing would be in six fives,
9:35
sometimes just things aren't made for my sense.
9:37
- But, what do you gotta flex like that?
9:38
- I'm going to flex.
9:39
- I'm gonna flex.
9:40
- I'm gonna flex.
9:41
- Choose to be six fives.
9:41
- I did not.
9:42
- I ended up being six fives.
9:43
- Yeah, the Lord deemed me worthy.
9:45
- He was predestined, I'm better for a mic
9:48
because I'm five nine.
9:49
- But, let's get back to the word you use,
9:52
I think, persuade is a very important word,
9:55
because when people, you know, you think about the Lila,
10:00
you think about different people from scripture
10:02
to where it's like, it's easy to see the nefarious intent
10:05
of the things that they were trying to do,
10:07
but it's like, how many times do we end up in sin
10:10
because we are allowing ourselves to be persuaded
10:13
in that way, I think that's important.
10:15
- Well, I think we can question our own motives.
10:16
Like, they're questioning his motives.
10:18
Like, you're not doing this
10:19
because God has called you to do it
10:21
and God wants to rebuild his city and rebuild his nation.
10:25
You're doing it for your own personal gain.
10:27
And I think even in our, you know, Christian walk,
10:31
when we, a lot of times when believers,
10:34
there's a, there's that heart change in a regeneration.
10:37
And now they have turned away from the sins
10:40
of their past and they're actively pursuing holiness.
10:45
And I can speak to this from my own life.
10:47
You have people that kind of come out of the woodworks
10:49
like Jake's talking about, like you're kind of a holier
10:53
than now type of guy.
10:54
Like, this isn't, this isn't what you say it is.
10:57
You're, you're, you're doing this for clout
10:59
or you're doing this so people like you better
11:01
or whatever the reason is.
11:03
And so I think a lot of times we can, we can take that and go.
11:07
All right.
11:08
And you know, we can question ourselves.
11:09
So it's, it's very, it's very important to be grounded
11:12
and know what, what are we doing?
11:14
- I think one thing to look at though is, you know,
11:15
maybe there was a jealousy in those guys,
11:18
but I think it was mostly fear.
11:20
Fear of what is Jerusalem going to be able to accomplish
11:22
with their wall to rebuild.
11:24
Cause these guys weren't Jewish.
11:25
They were, one was a Moabite, the other one's an Arab.
11:28
You know, I don't know who Tabayo was.
11:30
I just know it was their southeast of the, yeah,
11:32
Jordan River.
11:33
And so these guys, I think are fearing what Jerusalem's
11:36
going to do, what they're going to be capable of
11:39
if their walls are restored.
11:41
And I think a lot of this is leading towards their fear.
11:44
- Yeah.
11:45
- Well, their fear of where their place in the pecking order
11:48
is going to be.
11:49
- That's where the jealousy comes in.
11:51
- Yeah. And how much influence that they'll have.
11:53
And I wonder if that is why, you know,
11:56
when we see in verse six, as you mentioned earlier, Ryan,
11:59
where it's, you know, according to reports,
12:02
you wish to become their king.
12:04
And so at the time, again, we have to go back
12:06
to very beginning.
12:08
He was given a sabbatical from King Artaxerxes
12:11
and King Artaxerxes gave him money, supplies, protection,
12:16
and all of this to basically go out to a degree
12:19
as his standard bearer in the land
12:22
that he is in ultimate control over
12:24
and how violetive would it be of that arrangement
12:28
if he goes out, rebuilds the city walls, fortifies the city walls,
12:33
and then hides behind it and says, all right,
12:35
I'm the king now Artaxerxes.
12:38
And, you know, we've rebuilt the walls like come and get it.
12:42
And that's the way that they're setting this up.
12:44
It doesn't have anything to do with reality.
12:47
That's not the reality of the situation.
12:49
But that is kind of the tact that they took.
12:52
And I mean, to be honest, it's deceitful and it's nasty.
12:57
But man, that's an effective technique.
12:59
- Do you think there was intermotives on them though?
13:01
Wanting to do that because like, hey,
13:03
how long is Artaxerxes going to be around?
13:05
You know, how long is he going to be?
13:07
How long is he going to reign?
13:08
And if he's gone, what power do we have
13:11
that we can take over this area and make it our own?
13:14
- I think there's probably a little bit of that.
13:15
But, you know, I think they were going,
13:17
they stood to lose something if the, you know,
13:20
the people are coming together.
13:22
Tobias had kind of married into the Jewish people
13:26
like he and he, you know, he's kind of in the circling.
13:28
We kind of go through that as we go through a few
13:31
verses from now and where he kind of stands
13:35
and how he got in there.
13:36
But I think that's a good point, possible for sure.
13:40
- I think one of the things that's interesting here though,
13:43
I think they all knew as they're tempting the people
13:47
to try and convince them, they all know the story
13:50
that there is a coming king.
13:51
There's a coming messiah.
13:53
This guy thinks he's it.
13:55
He's not at the Davidic line, but he's going to act like he is.
13:59
And I think in that point, and I mean, I think all of us
14:02
have probably experienced this at some point in our walk
14:05
is how often do people use scripture against us
14:10
as we're trying to walk?
14:11
You know, I always like the, my favorite phrase is, you know,
14:16
you start telling someone like trying to show some discernment
14:19
in something that's going on.
14:20
And you say, here's what's, here's what's happening.
14:23
And they're like, well, you know what, you shouldn't be judging.
14:26
You shouldn't be judgmental.
14:28
And I look at, it's, again, I'm going to go back
14:32
to Tim Keller, one of my favorite lines
14:33
from the reason for God, are there people in this world
14:38
right now who are doing something
14:41
that you don't think they should be doing?
14:43
And the fact is, is everybody has this discernment
14:47
of what is right and what is wrong.
14:49
It's like it's implanted in us because we've been made
14:52
in God's image already, but yet I think that's probably
14:57
the hardest thing about being a Christian
14:58
is because especially when you're a new Christian,
15:01
it's very difficult.
15:03
You don't know the scripture in that way.
15:04
You're trying to, you dive in and you read it
15:08
and there is layers to this stuff.
15:10
I mean, it is so deep.
15:12
- Well, Jake, you talk about discernment.
15:15
Well, where does a Christian get their discernment?
15:17
From the Holy Spirit and from discerning
15:21
from study of the actual scriptures.
15:23
And so the problem is when you have a politician,
15:26
whether, you know, left, right or in between,
15:29
when they say things like, well, the Bible says,
15:33
well, it's like, okay, where, where in the Bible?
15:36
Like, where does it say that?
15:37
What is the context of what you're quoting?
15:40
And that's the problem is when Christians
15:42
don't know their scriptures, again, guys,
15:43
that's why the forging table even exists
15:45
because I had, was it a year or two ago?
15:48
Like I read 53, 54 books.
15:51
Like for the podcast and I read,
15:53
I didn't read that many chapters of the Bible
15:55
and I'm gonna keep repeating that
15:56
because it's like, I got a lot of wisdom
15:59
and I got a lot of information from all these great resources.
16:03
None of those authors were God.
16:06
And so it's like the amount of time and effort
16:07
I put into that work.
16:09
And so you think about it this way.
16:11
Let's say you don't go to a church
16:13
that has, you know, an expository preacher
16:15
or someone that's going line by line through the Bible
16:17
and you know, exegeating, not isegeating.
16:19
So you go to one of these TED Talk churches
16:20
and you're like, this all sounds good.
16:23
Like it's the moral therapeutic deism.
16:26
You feel good when you leave.
16:27
You don't feel like depraved.
16:29
You don't really reckon with your sin that much.
16:32
And you can't call the pastor on using things incorrectly
16:36
or exegeating improperly or even isegeating just in general
16:39
because you haven't spent any time in the word.
16:41
And you know, you get the bumper stickers, you know,
16:44
scripture outside of the context of that chapter,
16:47
outside of the context of that book,
16:49
outside of the context of the story of the entire Bible.
16:52
And I mean, again, I don't want to seem like I'm hovering
16:56
over my own commentary, but at the same time,
16:58
it's like, is that not the case where it's like,
17:00
when you're not in scripture,
17:01
like how are you discerning anything?
17:02
- That's a thing is look at Christ in the desert
17:06
with the devil tempting him.
17:07
- Right.
17:08
- What is the devil using?
17:09
The devil is using scripture, but out of context.
17:11
- What do you get him to do?
17:12
- Even Nehemiah uses scripture when he's called
17:15
to desecrate the temple.
17:16
He knows that's wrong.
17:17
Why does he know that's wrong?
17:18
'Cause God has laid that out in his law.
17:22
And he knows that.
17:24
And had he not known that, man,
17:26
we might not know who Nehemiah is,
17:28
or he'd just be a little footnote
17:30
'cause he was tempted to go in there.
17:33
And that's a desecration and an abomination.
17:37
So he was predestined for this.
17:38
- Okay, we made it 16 minutes.
17:43
16 minutes and don't point at max.
17:46
- I didn't say it first.
17:47
- Matt said it first and then I just had to follow up with it.
17:51
- 'Cause he's my brother.
17:52
- Every single time.
17:53
For those of you that are just keeping score at home,
17:55
there are exactly 50% Calvinists at this table right now.
17:58
And somehow that's going to be 90%
18:00
of what we talk about today.
18:02
I don't know how that math is at work.
18:04
- Well, that's because it is pre-order.
18:05
- I can't, I can't.
18:07
Before we go too crazy, someone breaks a forging table.
18:09
Like, let's keep that discussion going
18:11
because I think, so you bring up a great point,
18:14
Ryan, about what Jesus did.
18:16
How was Jesus able to refute the poise of the devil
18:19
in the desert?
18:20
- He knew the scripture.
18:21
- But we were so biblically illiterate.
18:24
And I use the term we, let's say Christians,
18:27
people that, well, you know, their name is written
18:30
in the Lamb's book of life.
18:31
Like, I guess why?
18:34
Like, why don't we read the scripture?
18:36
My number one guess, and so y'all can evaluate
18:39
and see if you agree, is because it's so easy to access it.
18:43
Right?
18:44
Like, Matt, to my right, he's got a journal,
18:46
is that scripture in it?
18:47
- It doesn't, it's just some notes.
18:49
- Well, okay, well, add mine.
18:50
So I've got a scripture journal right there,
18:52
which is touching an iPad that's got the ESV app open.
18:56
And then you've got your John MacArthur study Bible
18:58
right there, and then in your pocket,
18:59
you've got multiple Bible apps.
19:01
And this is indicative of everybody.
19:03
We have a stack of Bibles.
19:05
Every home, every Christian home has a stack of Bibles.
19:08
But how often do we actually crack it?
19:10
Is that, is that the hard thing?
19:12
Is that why people in Iran?
19:13
In North Korea, in China,
19:15
is that why they're spending so much time in scripture?
19:17
Because they might get a copy of John,
19:20
like a track copy of John.
19:22
That's it, that's all they have.
19:24
- Yeah, they've got to know it, they've got to memorize it,
19:27
'cause they never know when they might be able to read it again.
19:29
So I think that's a good point.
19:30
I think, I think another reason,
19:32
there's layers to this for sure.
19:35
But I think another reason is we live in a time where,
19:37
I don't know who called it this or who coined this phrase,
19:41
but the cult of the expert, it may be Joe Booth,
19:44
where it goes through all of society.
19:48
It goes to our medical experts,
19:50
our politicians, our church leaders.
19:53
We view them as such experts that when they say something,
19:57
it is gold, it is law, I don't need to question it
20:01
because they went to six years of school for that.
20:04
So I don't have to question anything.
20:06
- That's a hard thing for me.
20:08
Because if anything, I don't know if I was just,
20:10
I'm so self-absorbed, but like--
20:13
- That's probably it.
20:13
- Probably, that's probably the tip.
20:15
Or I'm just like, who cares?
20:17
I think I went and studied this for 12 years.
20:19
I don't care, I'll go read it for myself,
20:21
and then hopefully this Holy Spirit will guide me,
20:23
which usually happens.
20:25
But it's just like, I'm tired of that expert age.
20:28
It's like, all right, this expert who's gonna let
20:30
some cultural narrative kind of shape their value,
20:33
and they still have that 12 years of study,
20:35
and then they're gonna be like,
20:36
well, everybody's gonna be like,
20:37
well, that's what it means now.
20:39
It's like, no, it's not.
20:41
Go read it for yourself.
20:42
And I just think it's sheer laziness.
20:44
- Yeah.
20:45
- I think it's just sheer laziness
20:46
to open your Bible and to read.
20:48
- I will tell you, as someone who's probably been digging
20:51
into this for maybe a little bit less time
20:54
than what you all have.
20:56
- For the record, let me pause you.
20:59
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:00
- So about 48 hours ago,
21:02
who was supposed to be sitting in Jake's seat, got COVID.
21:05
And for those of you like,
21:06
this is kind of letting you behind the wall,
21:08
I'm gonna be having my second vocal cord surgery
21:10
in two days.
21:11
And so obviously I can't be around anybody
21:13
that's the least bit sick.
21:14
And so anybody out there, if you're like,
21:16
hey, this Jake guy kind of sounds like a moron,
21:19
which is probably not gonna happen.
21:20
I want to tell you, he had about 36 hours notice
21:24
to come and sit down here and do a batch of recordings
21:27
for the forging table.
21:28
So give him, I mean, I know he's a Cubs fan,
21:30
like he's basically a loser by definition,
21:32
but I'm just saying.
21:33
- Oh, he's got the worst record in the MLB right now.
21:37
- So what is the MLB, right?
21:39
- In the MLB.
21:40
- The MLB, the Major League Baseball.
21:42
- Who has the worst record in the MLB right now?
21:44
- How many points did the Cubs score last night?
21:46
Is that how we're gonna go?
21:47
- Yeah.
21:48
- Wait, stop, Ryan, Ryan, come on, man.
21:50
- You're attacking my Cubs.
21:51
- I'm not attacking anything.
21:52
I'm just pointing out the facts here.
21:53
What I'm saying is I'm giving you a solid.
21:55
So that's my way of saying thank you.
21:58
I have to tear you down before I can build you up.
22:00
But that's my way of saying thank you.
22:01
But yeah, go ahead.
22:02
- No, I want to expand on that too,
22:04
because the reason that Jake can step in here
22:06
and do this is because he is grounded
22:09
in the scripture anyway.
22:10
Like he's studying, and I know this about Jake
22:12
because we go to Sunday school together,
22:15
we do Bible study on Wednesday together, like--
22:17
- We share long-card rice together or jump fishing trips.
22:19
- Yeah, he's grounded in the word already.
22:21
So this wasn't a, oh, hey, yeah,
22:23
let me crack open my knee.
22:25
Is that in the old test?
22:26
Like he knows, like he's studying the scripture.
22:28
So like it's not a huge leap to go.
22:33
Okay, I may not know that much about Nehemiah,
22:34
but I know God's truth and I know God's word,
22:37
I'm going to dig in.
22:38
So do you even remember your point?
22:40
Because we just started--
22:40
- Yeah, no, no, no, you're fine, you're fine.
22:42
I was going to say, I was armed before I came in here.
22:44
It may have been with a slingshot, but I was armed.
22:47
No, I think the biggest thing I would tell you
22:51
is someone who's really started diving into these
22:54
in scripture a lot heavier over the last 14 months.
22:58
I always find the Bible intimidating.
23:02
There's a lot to it, and as someone who,
23:07
it's like, well, I'm saved, I follow Jesus,
23:09
I do my best here.
23:11
As someone who's going through that walk
23:12
and then you start reading it,
23:13
it can be really, really convicting.
23:15
Especially if you're starting to really deep dive
23:17
into the study and you realize how much,
23:20
so much of the Old Testament is linked to the New Testament
23:23
and scripture is linked to scripture
23:25
and how many different prophets are quoting each other
23:27
and you don't realize it.
23:28
I mean, I read the Bible, covered a cover two years ago.
23:33
It was like New Year's resolution, I'm going to do it.
23:35
Was my heart in it?
23:36
No, I mean, I was checking boxes.
23:38
I'm checking boxes.
23:39
It's like, well, I remember telling my daughters
23:41
that I said, well, your father believes that
23:46
if you haven't read the whole Bible,
23:50
then I don't know why you would be wanting to talk
23:52
about any other book that you've read.
23:55
It's the single most important book in the history of man
23:59
and I haven't read it all.
24:02
So I'm not reading any other book until I finish this book.
24:06
But the problem is it's like, okay,
24:08
well, I'm just checking boxes, I'm not studying it.
24:10
- Were you trying to do like the Bible in the year thing?
24:11
- Oh yeah.
24:12
- 'Cause I remember whenever I did,
24:14
I was going to listen to the Bible
24:15
'cause I'm like, I listen to so many podcasts,
24:16
I don't listen to the Bible.
24:18
It was so passive, 'cause listening to something
24:20
is passive generically just as a category,
24:23
but it was so passive because I'm driving around
24:26
a multi-thousand pound vehicle trying not to die
24:29
while I'm also trying to learn scripture.
24:31
But I think that's the thing,
24:32
well, I'm curious what you guys think about this.
24:34
I think part of the thing that keeps people
24:37
from reading the Bible is they think they have to study it.
24:40
I've mentioned that several times on the show
24:42
when I've talked to other people is like, okay,
24:44
you can read Lord of the Rings.
24:46
You can read whatever you're into.
24:49
Pick a book, Jack Cardinal's.
24:50
You can read those, but you don't have to study them.
24:53
And even if you're reading something that's nonfiction,
24:56
you're reading the reason for God,
24:57
you can read it without studying it.
24:59
But with the Bible, it seems like categorically,
25:02
most people are like, I don't have time to study it.
25:05
So reading, it's not even worthwhile.
25:07
Do y'all feel like that's how that goes?
25:09
- Oh, I think a lot of people think that.
25:10
It's 66 books, I mean, that's a thick book.
25:16
And I think we can--
25:17
- With 10 pages.
25:18
- Yeah, very thin pages.
25:20
And if you have a study Bible, it's even thicker
25:22
because there's notes and there's commentary in there.
25:24
But I think, yeah, it is such a daunting library
25:28
to look at and try to try to digest.
25:32
And then I think to quote something that you say,
25:37
we default to our lowest level of training.
25:39
And if that is the easy way,
25:41
oh, well, I'm just gonna watch an hour worth of shows
25:43
because man, that's just easier.
25:45
That turns into seven hours and I wake up,
25:48
it's 2 a.m. and my TV's on.
25:50
And I sat in bed to read some scripture
25:53
and then I ended up watching Netflix
25:54
for until I fell asleep.
25:56
It's a commitment to just do it.
26:03
And yeah, I think that's definitely something
26:06
that it's such a daunting thing.
26:09
You just have to get over it and get it.
26:10
- Well, I'm kinda taking this off into the nether regions.
26:12
We got more to cover in chapter six.
26:14
But I think that that's a really good way
26:16
to encapsulate that point, Matt, is for all of us.
26:19
And I'm preaching to me as well.
26:20
Like it is worth your time, however much time that you give it.
26:24
So even like when you first wake up in the morning,
26:26
like are you immediately going to your email, Instagram,
26:29
Twitter, or are you going to one of your Bible apps?
26:32
I think that's a very important thing.
26:33
One thing I don't wanna spend a ton of time on,
26:35
but I did just wanna point out verse eight.
26:37
Then I sent to him saying no such things
26:40
as you say have been done,
26:43
for you are inventing them out of your own mind.
26:46
The note that I made as I was reading that guys
26:48
is you don't always have to ignore false accusations.
26:51
And so we live in this time period
26:53
where there are people that are more release superior.
26:57
And when people will say things to them
26:59
and try to attack them and tear them down,
27:01
they're like, I'm not gonna dignify that with a response.
27:04
And I've said similar things.
27:05
Like I don't go in my comments section.
27:06
On my YouTube channel on Instagram,
27:08
I don't read the comments because they're typically positive,
27:12
but it's those negative ones that will stick in my craw
27:15
for multiple days and it's just not really good
27:17
for being in terms of what we're trying to build out
27:20
in terms of content.
27:21
But to those people that think that you've never
27:23
have to answer your naysayers,
27:24
I think this is a good example of a guy like Nehemiah
27:28
who he and there were all these false accusations
27:31
and he answered them directly.
27:33
You can answer them.
27:35
But I think that attaches to verse nine,
27:38
for they all wanted to frighten us,
27:40
thinking their hands will drop from the work
27:42
and it will not be done.
27:44
But now, oh God, strengthen my hands.
27:46
So, but now, oh God, strengthen my hands.
27:49
How many times in Nehemiah so far,
27:50
have we seen these little like quick tweet prayers
27:53
from Nehemiah where he pauses, he pauses.
27:57
He says a quick prayer.
27:59
So it's almost like he's re-centering himself,
28:01
not like in a, I'm gonna attach my ponytail
28:04
to a tree, new age type of thing.
28:06
But it's like he's just centering his life
28:10
on who he knows, he's going back to the source.
28:14
I guess you can say it.
28:15
And I think that that's a very important thing
28:18
that Nehemiah just does this a lot.
28:20
And if I'm being honest, I don't do that a lot.
28:22
Like my quick tweet prayers are typically thank you ones
28:25
or if I'm doing something cool or something like a blessing
28:28
that I noticed, I'm like, oh man, God,
28:29
that's so freaking awesome.
28:30
I don't deserve that.
28:31
But you gave it to me, that's cool, thank you.
28:33
But this, like he's really in the teeth of this drama
28:37
and he keeps going back to prayer.
28:39
I think that's really, really important.
28:40
- It's a good model for sure.
28:41
- Yeah.
28:42
I think whenever you, I mean,
28:44
I think that's something,
28:46
I know Matt and I have discussed this before.
28:49
I think one of the things that's very, very difficult
28:51
is when you start going through any sort of adversity,
28:55
any challenge when you're afraid,
28:58
I think there's times where we will turn to God
29:02
and it's easy.
29:05
But I think there's also a lot of times
29:08
where we just, we don't think we need him.
29:11
And we won't turn to him in those times.
29:15
We decide, no, you know, to, you know, to be Nehemiah here.
29:20
No, I can build the wall on my own.
29:23
I don't need God.
29:24
I think there's a lot of, you know,
29:28
I know Matt and I are doing a Isaiah Bible study right now
29:31
in talking about Hezekiah and him going to God
29:35
frequently over and over and over again
29:38
in contrast to his father, Ahaz,
29:40
who's well, I'm not going to God.
29:42
I'm going to go to Egypt.
29:43
I'm going to go and have,
29:44
I'm going to get help elsewhere, you know,
29:46
and we seek human help.
29:48
I think the first thing that we want to look at,
29:50
the first thing before we encounter anything
29:53
is we're encountering, you know,
29:55
I know as I've struggled with certain things,
29:58
nothing stands up to Jesus.
29:59
There are literally times where I'd just like,
30:01
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, I just keep repeating his name.
30:05
And I know that if there's a temptation
30:07
that's in front of me, if there's a fear in front of me,
30:10
it cannot stand up to it.
30:11
- Yeah, no, I think, you know,
30:14
just to extrapolate this whole,
30:16
this book, how does it apply?
30:17
Like reading scripture and digging into the word
30:21
and pursuing a relationship with God
30:26
is building up a wall.
30:28
We are building up the city gates and the city walls
30:32
by doing this.
30:33
I think that's so true that God is not just building a wall
30:37
here, he is building a foundation, he's building up a people.
30:41
This is more than just, this city needs to be restored.
30:44
This has some very eternal consequences
30:46
for the people of God.
30:48
And so I think we can do that ourselves by digging in
30:51
and having that relationship and thinking first,
30:55
okay, how should I do this?
30:57
Or, man, I'm gonna call my buddy, it's, let's turn to God.
31:00
And Nehemiah's a perfect, not a perfect,
31:02
but he's a great model for that.
31:04
And that's awesome that that's in there.
31:06
It's not by accident, that's in there.
31:09
- Ryan, would you mind reading verse 10?
31:11
It's got a lot of names that are gonna be easy
31:13
to mispronounce, so I just wanna laugh at you.
31:14
So if you can read verse 10.
31:15
- That's good, I've been listening to this on tape.
31:17
- Go for it.
31:18
- On tape?
31:19
- Not on tape.
31:20
- What year did we just go back to?
31:22
- I've been listening to this on an app.
31:24
- Ryan broke out his wife.
31:26
- I was just, I was just, before we go,
31:28
I just wanted to say, you know, as council demand,
31:32
don't ever use verse eight on your wife.
31:34
I've done it before and I've gotten in trouble.
31:37
- Go ahead and read verse eight
31:38
so they know what you're saying.
31:39
- No such things you say have been done for your advantage.
31:43
(laughing)
31:44
- So you're saying you've tested this theory live
31:47
on a lovely wife, is that what you're saying?
31:49
- Yes, I'm still married.
31:51
- But it just wasn't like a great experience
31:54
for that period time.
31:56
- I wish I had the video tape of her face
31:59
looking at you when you said that.
32:01
- Oh man.
32:02
- No such things have happened, you're venting them in your mind.
32:05
- That's the bible.
32:06
- That's my quoted scripture.
32:07
- That's right.
32:08
- You can't get mad.
32:09
- And then you immediately go to the bar
32:10
where it says women should be quiet
32:11
and you're like, "Yeah, don't worry about the context.
32:13
I need you to be quiet."
32:14
(laughing)
32:15
What I just said out in Nehemiah.
32:16
So, wow.
32:17
- No, I'm sorry.
32:18
I had to get a laugh in before you made me read this
32:20
and I laughed at myself.
32:21
- Go for it, verse 10, guys.
32:22
- I didn't highlight this time, so we're good.
32:25
- Last time, guys, if you're not paying attention,
32:27
so Ryan's got this habit of highlighting every single word
32:30
he finds important.
32:31
And then he realizes he's highlighting the bible
32:33
and all of it's God's word.
32:34
And so it's like,
32:35
but he'll leave three or four words a page not highlighted.
32:38
And I don't know about you guys,
32:39
but makes it kind of hard to read.
32:40
- You landed the.
32:41
- Yeah.
32:42
(laughing)
32:44
- Now, when I went up into the house of Shemaiah,
32:47
the son of Delilah, son of Methabelle,
32:50
who was confined to his home,
32:52
he said, "Let us meet together in the house of God
32:54
"within the temple.
32:56
"Let us close the doors of the temple
32:58
"for they are coming to kill you."
33:00
All right, so just first 10,
33:01
well, we'll keep kind of piecing this out.
33:03
This is really important because Nehemiah,
33:07
this is kind of lost in the context
33:08
'cause it's not explicit here,
33:09
but Nehemiah is not permitted in the temple
33:12
because he was not a priest, okay?
33:14
And so really, this was a fairly diabolical scheme
33:19
because as we'll see, spoiler alert,
33:21
this was not a real profit.
33:23
This was a profit that was hired by the people
33:25
that wanted to destroy the project from the beginning.
33:28
This was a scheme to either kill him
33:31
and or ruin his reputation
33:33
because let's say he knows he's not permitted in the temple.
33:36
The people know he's not permitted in the temple,
33:38
but in order to save himself from potential harm,
33:42
he goes and hides inside the temple.
33:45
Even if they didn't kill him,
33:46
it would have ruined his reputation
33:48
as a man that had reverence for God.
33:51
And so I think it goes back to the persuasion point
33:53
you were making earlier, Jake,
33:54
or different ways that we get pulled into sin
33:57
is this seems like a good plan.
33:59
I am in physical, mortal danger.
34:03
And this person of God, this prophet,
34:06
is allowing me access to the temple that he can't grant,
34:09
by the way, he can't grant that access,
34:11
like he doesn't have the right.
34:12
But man, that's a hell of a plan.
34:15
Like, hey, let's get him to do this.
34:18
But then we see in verse 11, Ryan,
34:21
you wanna go ahead and do verse 11, please?
34:22
- Sure.
34:25
But I said, should such a man as I run away
34:29
and what man such as I could go into the temple and live,
34:34
I will not go in.
34:35
- So let's talk about that a little bit,
34:37
because again, diabolical scheme, very, very smart scheme,
34:41
it's playing on every human's desire to stay alive
34:46
and to self-preserve.
34:48
But immediately, there's this courageous response
34:51
from Nehemiah, like, should such a man as I run away?
34:56
Like, again, he understands his placement in Israel,
34:59
he understands his placement under God's authority.
35:01
And he basically says, no, like he probably smelled a rat
35:04
as well here, but he's like, no, no chance.
35:07
- I think he had some discernment for sure,
35:09
but his work wasn't finished.
35:11
He knew what he was supposed to do.
35:14
And his, it seems like his whole time doing this
35:17
is a whole, I am doing a great work
35:18
and cannot come down moment.
35:20
Like, that is his life verse, it would appear.
35:23
If there were ever a life verse to put on a coffee mug,
35:27
that would be a pretty good one to put on one.
35:30
But yeah, he obviously has some discernment,
35:32
but he knows who he serves and he knows what his mission is.
35:37
And even back to, man, Artaxerxes could kill you.
35:41
He's the most powerful person in all of the land.
35:44
And Nehemiah, his thought was,
35:47
he's not more powerful than God.
35:49
Like, I serve God who reigns over Artaxerxes.
35:54
So that is again, another great example
35:58
of how we are to act in those types of situations.
36:02
- I think Artaxerxes kind of knew that too.
36:04
And the fact that if you look at the past through,
36:07
you know, we go back and look at Daniel
36:08
and put all the kings before him,
36:10
they ended up seeing the power of God throughout that time.
36:13
And I don't know if I might be incorrect on this,
36:16
but I believe like Esther was a stepmother.
36:18
So yeah, I think that's right.
36:20
- Yeah, and so I think there was a maybe a reverence
36:25
with him and the Jewish people.
36:27
And so I don't, I mean, he made a thought himself as God,
36:30
but I think he had a reverence for the Jewish people
36:33
in the Jewish God.
36:33
- What?
36:34
- I think the way that Nehemiah act
36:37
and the way he did things, you go back to, you know,
36:41
Timothy, when it talks about acting in a way
36:44
that even unbelievers respect you,
36:46
I think that is very much an indication
36:49
of how Nehemiah was.
36:51
Like he acted in such a way that Artaxerxes respected him
36:55
so much that he made him his cup bear.
36:57
- Yeah.
36:58
- And so everything that he did,
37:00
you could see that pouring out of him.
37:03
Okay, this guy is different.
37:05
This guy is doing things different than most people I know.
37:09
So I think that just seeped from him.
37:12
- Yeah.
37:12
- I think it's interesting if you kind of compare Nehemiah
37:15
a little bit to Joseph, you know,
37:18
the circumstances in which he arrived under his captor
37:21
and the character and integrity that he showed
37:25
ends up with him in a position of great prominence
37:29
underneath the ruler.
37:31
And now he's able to do something
37:35
that is very impactful towards God's perfect plan.
37:39
But I think for, I mean, I don't know,
37:41
I have a note in here.
37:43
Have you heard of Joseph's on the Romanian pastor?
37:47
I know I talked to you with you about him a while back.
37:50
So I look at this, I read it and I was like,
37:53
this is a man who's literally like, I am anchored.
37:55
I know what God's plan is.
37:57
Joseph's on was a Romanian pastor in under communist rule
38:02
and he had a interrogator under the communist regime
38:08
under Russia.
38:10
An interrogator who was basically beating him daily,
38:13
trying to get him to stop preaching God's word.
38:16
And at one point he goes back to his cell
38:21
and he's just, I mean, Joseph is just distraught.
38:25
He's like, why is this happening to me?
38:27
I can't believe this is going on.
38:29
And Jesus comes to him and says,
38:31
I thought you wanted to know me.
38:33
If you want to know me, you have to know my suffering.
38:36
And he went back to that interrogator the next day
38:39
and thanked him and forgave him.
38:41
He said, I forgive you 'cause I was so angry with you,
38:44
but you actually brought me closer to God
38:46
in these moments where you were beating me.
38:49
And he, the interrogator actually never beat him again.
38:53
At one point he actually said,
38:54
and I have this quote written down 'cause it was,
38:56
he said, your supreme weapon is killing.
38:59
My supreme weapon is dying.
39:01
My preaching will speak 10 times louder after you kill me.
39:07
And that, that defiance and I just banged on the table.
39:10
You told me to do that.
39:11
- I told you after guys, it was only a matter of time.
39:14
It's something with that seat,
39:16
but don't lose your mode.
39:17
- I'm sorry, but that defiance, I mean, I look at this as,
39:20
Nehemiah's got all these people in his ears
39:23
and saying, no, like I know what God wants from me.
39:26
Like this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
39:28
And you're trying to drag me in, in muddy my character,
39:32
muddy my muddy up God's plan.
39:35
I'm not gonna let you.
39:36
And I think the important thing there is,
39:39
I don't know about for you guys,
39:41
but I'm like right in the thick of this right now.
39:43
Again, this is months down the road,
39:45
but in a couple of days I'll be going into surgery again
39:49
and it's like, okay, I feel God's placement of me
39:52
in this world is doing this podcast,
39:55
speaking, using my voice to point people towards him.
39:59
And what's my biggest physical ailment?
40:02
It's my voice.
40:03
And so it's like, okay, and even someone the other day
40:06
was like, Kyle, of course they wouldn't attack your voice.
40:09
So he doesn't want you to talk.
40:10
And so there's a lot of things going in there,
40:12
but it's like if you are over the target
40:16
of where God wants you in your life,
40:17
and that doesn't mean vocational ministry necessarily.
40:21
It could be inside your family, inside your business,
40:23
wherever you are being salt and might.
40:26
I think that's important to remember who you are
40:29
and to also remember that that doesn't mean
40:31
you're just going to skip along
40:33
and everything's gonna be fine.
40:34
Because again, there will be people
40:37
that will try to tear you down.
40:38
There will be negative nefarious forces
40:39
that will try to do the same thing.
40:41
And, well, here, Jake, go ahead and read 12 and 13
40:45
'cause I think that'll elucidate the point even further.
40:47
- And I understood and saw that God had not sent him,
40:52
but he had pronounced the prophecy against me
40:54
because Tobias and symbolic had hired him.
40:57
For this purpose, he was hired.
40:59
That I should be afraid and act in this way and sin.
41:02
And so they could give me a bad name in order to taunt me.
41:05
- And so I think that this is important
41:07
because sometimes we like to categorize things.
41:12
I forget who said it, but it was probably my buddy,
41:16
Joby Martin, during a sermon when people were like,
41:18
I'm under attack right now at my job.
41:21
And then he has them talk a little bit about their job.
41:23
And it's like, no, it sounds like you're showing up late
41:25
not working very hard.
41:26
It's like, I don't think you're under the thumb
41:32
of the devil right now.
41:32
I think you're just being a lazy bones.
41:34
And so with the thing that's important here is,
41:37
Nehemiah is able to see this is a false prophet.
41:41
He calls him out as a false prophet.
41:43
But then a very important word that you might skip over
41:46
in verse 13, for this purpose, he was hired
41:49
that I should be afraid and act in this way and sin.
41:53
He recognized that had he fallen for the trap.
41:56
It wouldn't just be that he was gullible and naive.
42:00
It was that he would be sinful.
42:02
And I think that's a very important thing for all of us
42:04
that when we are attacked, when we do have real opposition,
42:08
not just our own bad habits, like you can recognize that
42:13
if you give into that, that that is sin.
42:14
And a recognition of our sin is not this macabre thing.
42:18
Like we're always walking around navel gazing
42:20
because we're so sinful.
42:21
No, it's a full understanding of their depravity.
42:24
And so the moment I say depravity, the Calvinists are like,
42:26
oh, let me talk next, let me talk next.
42:28
So is it going to be Ryan or is it going to be Matt?
42:30
Here we go.
42:31
That's not what we maybe want to talk.
42:33
But I think I'd love the camp out there for a bit
42:36
because I think when we hear the word sin,
42:40
we attach this certain connotation to it.
42:42
It is pornography.
42:44
It is murder.
42:46
It is all these terrible things.
42:48
And of course, those are sins.
42:50
But the sin that is being talked about here
42:55
is essentially turning away from God, which is what all sin is,
42:59
basically, is turning away from God.
43:01
It is making ourselves God, relying on our own will,
43:05
relying on our own capabilities.
43:08
And you don't have to go have a porn addiction to be in sin.
43:14
And I think it's important to note
43:17
that it's not this big bogeyman thing that's
43:24
so far out there that we can't grasp it or, man,
43:29
that'll never happen to me.
43:30
Like you are sinful.
43:33
Yeah, I think it's you.
43:35
I like the, I mean, again, I was listening
43:39
to a Timothy Geller soldier sermon the other day.
43:41
And he talked about like sin bigotry, OK?
43:44
And so many, like we rank sin here on earth,
43:50
we've decided that certain sin is worse than others.
43:52
And what's funny is I think the people
43:55
who actually commit those harsh, harsh sins,
43:58
when they do repent, walk a lot closer with God
44:02
than someone like even me or anybody sitting at this table.
44:05
Because I've never killed anybody.
44:08
I've never stole, you know, I haven't,
44:11
I haven't had a homosexual relationship.
44:13
There's all these big sins that I have not committed.
44:16
And yet when they repent, they walk closer with him
44:21
because they know that salvation is key.
44:23
I think I think you're right.
44:24
Because even earlier this year, guys,
44:26
when I was speaking at Lewisburg prison and, you know,
44:28
I'm sitting there in front of multiple murderers, rapists,
44:34
kidnappers, pedophiles, when they come to knowledge
44:38
of their own sin and their actual level of depravity,
44:41
it's different than somebody that, you know, would lie
44:44
or would deceive people or something.
44:45
It does hit different.
44:47
And that's another reason earlier this year,
44:48
Jacob Rehome, a pastor out of Canada, came on the show
44:51
and we talked about abortion.
44:53
And he just talked about how so many pastors are scared
44:55
of the women and their congregations
44:56
that have had abortions.
44:58
And so they just decide to not talk about it.
45:00
And he says, they've seen so much gospel fruit
45:05
from getting up on stage and saying,
45:06
"Look, if you've had an abortion, you've murdered.
45:08
"You've murdered an image bearer of God."
45:11
But, you know, basically, you know, Jesus died for that too.
45:14
But it's understanding that and categorizing it properly.
45:16
That's important.
45:17
I think Calvin is death magic.
45:20
So who's gonna do it?
45:21
- Maborax is us.
45:22
- Let's actually do that.
45:24
You know, whoever's gonna, you, we're doing best of one.
45:26
What's one, two, three, shoot, three, shoot.
45:29
Okay, one, two, three, shoot.
45:31
One, two, three, shoot.
45:33
- Even in paper, Roxie.
45:34
- The Calvin is, Ryan.
45:35
- The Calvin is, there was three sessions there.
45:37
The Calvin has kept thinking just a line on the front.
45:40
(laughing)
45:40
- Of course.
45:41
- 'Cause we're brothers.
45:43
- That's right.
45:44
Make your point.
45:45
- No, I think it was, I think it's one thing to look at
45:47
when he brought up sin, you know, like all sin,
45:50
I think in God's eyes is the same,
45:52
whether you murder somebody or you lie,
45:54
but it's the consequences.
45:56
It's consequences that aren't the same.
45:57
I think that's something that's hard for Christian people
45:59
to understand is that, yeah, all sin is, you know,
46:02
you hear, well, all sin's the same, you know,
46:03
you sin just like the next person.
46:05
It's like, yeah, well, there's different consequences to sin.
46:08
But I think what you said just brings a light
46:10
is that sin is anything outside of God.
46:13
You know, if we're taking anything outside of God
46:16
that is sin, and we all do it all the time.
46:18
It's our sin nature, it's, you know, it's us,
46:22
it's our free will, you know?
46:25
So, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb.
46:28
I could use my free will to either listen to God
46:31
in the Holy Spirit, or I could use my free will
46:33
to listen to my flesh.
46:35
And that's where I just kind of go through
46:36
where it's just like when you're,
46:38
I think me coming to Christ and me coming to add
46:40
the actual true essence of the gospel was total depravity.
46:45
Like you have to look at yourself as I'm not this good person
46:48
that the Ted Talk pastor down the street told me I am.
46:52
I'm really not, I need a savior.
46:54
- And you're not a mistakeer, you're a sinner.
46:55
- Yeah, I'm not a mistakeer, I didn't make mistakes.
46:58
No, I sinned, I sinned against the Holy God.
47:00
Maybe not in ways that other people have sinned,
47:02
but I've also, you know, other people sin in stronger ways.
47:06
But I have to agree that somebody who, you know,
47:10
where do you take that?
47:11
Like, I've never murdered anybody and it'll never happen.
47:14
But like, yeah, when you do do that
47:16
and then you do come to terms with your depravity,
47:18
like how much closer does that draw somebody?
47:21
- It's kind of daunting to think that the serial killer
47:24
and the president of the PTA are headed for the same place
47:28
about Christ. - That's true, yeah.
47:29
- And we can, we can lull ourselves to sleep
47:34
or believe this false sense of security that like Jake said,
47:37
I've never murdered anybody.
47:39
So I'm good, right?
47:41
But back to your point about abortion,
47:44
when we preach the whole gospel
47:47
or when preachers preach the whole gospel,
47:49
sure the gospel can cut,
47:50
it's the best news and the worst news
47:52
you can get all in the same moment.
47:54
Because yes, my default destination is eternal damnation,
47:58
but Christ says, I'm covering you,
48:02
you're clothed in my righteousness.
48:05
So come dwell in that.
48:07
It doesn't matter what you have done,
48:09
whether you're a murderer or you're a gossiper,
48:12
you all need Christ.
48:14
And I think that is a danger in the modern church,
48:17
specifically in America is we talk,
48:19
we want to talk about all these things
48:21
that the world says is horrible,
48:24
but then we forget about the president of the PTA
48:27
who's a gossiper.
48:28
She needs a gospel just as much as I do,
48:30
just as much as the guy in prison
48:32
who's spending the rest of his life in prison,
48:34
like everybody needs the gospel.
48:36
And that's why the gospel convicts, it doesn't condemn.
48:41
And that's what we got to remember.
48:41
It's like, I think it's Paul that says,
48:43
we do not live in condemnation.
48:44
- Well, there's now therefore no condemnation
48:46
for those who are in Christ Jesus.
48:48
Those are the first words out of my mouth
48:50
whenever I do my presentation on abortion,
48:52
because it's like, let's address the elephant
48:54
in the room right now.
48:55
It's all put on our big boy and big girl pants.
48:57
It's like, you have to understand
48:58
that what you've done was not a mistake.
49:00
It's not just part of your past.
49:02
It's one of the things that will send you to hell.
49:04
And it's because of the category of sin
49:06
to which that aligns with or attaches to.
49:09
- I think that's an important distinction.
49:11
It convicts, but it doesn't condemn.
49:13
We're all convicted.
49:14
We all stand before a holy God convicted of sin.
49:18
The difference for people who are in Christ
49:22
is after that conviction, God says,
49:25
you are robed in righteousness,
49:27
so now you are not condemned.
49:29
You are convicted, but not condemned.
49:31
- And that's what I say, if you're going to a church
49:33
and you walk out of that church
49:35
and you feel like, oh, I'm a good person,
49:36
I received a really good talk today.
49:39
Like, you know, I'm going to go out there.
49:40
I'm going to go slay the world, queen.
49:42
You know, it's like, no, you need to leave church
49:44
being like, I'm convicted.
49:46
Like, I need to draw myself closer to God.
49:49
Like, leaving with some conviction is not condemnation.
49:52
It's growth, and that's what it is.
49:55
- Yeah, I agree.
49:56
Let's, Matt, will you read 15 to 16 for sure?
50:00
- So the wall was finished on the 25th day of the month elol
50:05
in 52 days, and when all of our enemies heard of it,
50:10
all the nations around us were afraid
50:11
and fell greatly in their own esteem
50:13
for they perceived that this work had been accomplished
50:16
with the help of our God.
50:18
- So years and years and years and years of ruin,
50:23
the city walls are in ruin, the gates are in ruin,
50:27
the people are in ruin.
50:28
And in 52 days, I mean, you want to talk about leadership,
50:33
motivation, organization, political sway,
50:38
all that was in play here.
50:40
And in 52 days, they got this done.
50:42
I mean, if we think about in America,
50:43
it's like, you're not going to get a permit
50:46
to build a parking lot in California in 52 days.
50:49
You might not get that in 52 weeks.
50:51
And yet here we are, they were able to just get after it
50:53
and get it done.
50:55
And then in verse 16, what people perceived
50:58
was actually what happened was that they were able
51:00
to do that with the help of God.
51:02
And so could God have just snapped his fingers
51:04
and the walls had been rebuilt?
51:05
Yeah, of course, you could have done that.
51:07
But he used the hands and the feet of the people
51:10
who he granted hands and feet to,
51:12
to be able to do this work, a work that was definitive,
51:17
but it was also a work where they had to be defensive.
51:20
Throughout this entire process, they had to rely on God,
51:22
throughout this entire process.
51:24
But then even in verse 16,
51:25
that would have been a great time to brag.
51:27
Again, you know, Nehemiah is writing this.
51:30
Man, I am so awesome.
51:31
I came in here, I kicked the doors down,
51:33
that were already kind of kicked down.
51:34
And then I just like announced that we were going
51:36
to get this done.
51:37
And look, I am like, I am Lee Iacocca.
51:39
Like this is like, we're just absolutely crushing it.
51:42
But it's like he knew from the beginning.
51:43
It wasn't him.
51:45
He was just the hands and feet of God.
51:46
- I think one of the things that I found fascinating here,
51:50
when you talk about rebuilding the wall in 52 days,
51:53
they were not making brick.
51:55
This was leftover rubble, okay?
51:58
This wall was what was sitting there already.
52:01
And it was made new.
52:02
A whole new defense, a whole new way of preventing people
52:09
from coming into the city.
52:13
To me, that is so similar to just heart work.
52:18
I mean, it's just, I'm broken.
52:20
I have nothing, I'm messed up.
52:23
And God, Jesus comes in and I get my walls rebuilt.
52:28
But it's after the heart work starts the hard work.
52:33
You're going to have to, it's like, now, okay,
52:36
the walls are up now.
52:37
You have to defend it.
52:39
You're going to have to have that play.
52:41
You're going to have to have a defensive heart
52:43
against the temptations and sins of the outside world.
52:47
But yeah, to the point of the 52 days to build a wall,
52:51
I mean, I took two years to build my home.
52:54
I mean, it's just, you know, the amount of the design,
52:58
that is only accomplishable through the hand of God.
53:01
- Yeah, I think some context should be put there
53:03
like 52 days to build a wall of a city, you know,
53:08
in that time, my neighborhood streets are being paved.
53:12
They started in January.
53:14
We're not even close to being done.
53:16
We're well over 52 days, we're over 100 days now.
53:20
And we've got technology and machines.
53:24
And so 52 days, I think that's very specific
53:27
because there's no other way to look at that
53:31
if you're outside looking in going, oh, wow, 52 days.
53:35
And of course, surely God did that.
53:39
- Well, and I think as well,
53:40
I think I've read somewhere, it was in Eugenia Constantino's
53:44
book, I forget the name, it's the Crucifixion of our
53:47
- Oh, great pronunciation, by the way.
53:49
- I just snuck that in there.
53:50
So y'all would think I was smart.
53:51
Did it work?
53:52
Did it work?
53:53
Did it work?
53:54
- She's fantastic, by the way.
53:55
- She thought you were smarter until you said it.
53:57
- Nailed it.
53:58
I don't even know if that's true, but like the thing
54:00
- I think that's right.
54:01
- I think I remember reading 'cause, you know,
54:03
she gives us a really good understanding of, you know,
54:06
the Jews in the first century and kind of the context
54:08
of that and how it pertains to the gospel anyway.
54:11
But I think there were two, it took 200 men.
54:14
I think there were Levites, but it was 200 men
54:17
in order to open and close the gates of the temple.
54:20
And I mean, just think about that.
54:23
Like, so this wasn't hanging a door in your house, right?
54:27
This wasn't framing like this, this was serious work
54:30
that they got after.
54:31
And again, we go back to Nehemiah 3, we know who did it.
54:36
Right there, it's a, it's part of the historical record
54:39
that we know who did this and who became a part of it.
54:43
But I think the overall point here is because there's still
54:45
a whole lot more to go in Nehemiah.
54:47
But seemingly the point of Nehemiah,
54:49
this kind of crescendos here,
54:51
and we have like the climactic moment,
54:54
like, hey, they've built it.
54:55
And with all of us, and this will kind of set us up
54:57
for next week, with all of us, once we've accomplished
55:00
the thing, we think that we'll be whole.
55:04
We'll think that the work is now done.
55:05
So we've convinced her to marry us.
55:08
We've sold the company, we've gotten pregnant.
55:12
Whatever the thing is, you think you've arrived
55:15
and that you've accomplished something.
55:16
But as all of us here at this table know as fathers
55:19
is pregnancy, and then the baby is born,
55:23
that is not the end of what we're doing.
55:25
That is simply the beginning.
55:27
We talked about abortion quite a bit on this podcast.
55:29
A lot of pro-lifers ignorantly thought
55:32
that the overturning of Roe v. Wade
55:33
and Planned Parenthood v. Casey was the goal in the end.
55:37
It's like, no, that was what we needed to get the race started.
55:40
That was the gun that begins the race.
55:43
And now the fight actually begins.
55:45
So again, guys, every time I talk to someone about BMI,
55:49
they're always like, I don't really understand
55:50
why you think that's the best book of the Old Testament.
55:52
It's like, I didn't say it's the best book.
55:53
I said, it's my favorite book of the Old Testament,
55:55
but there's, again, chapter six is,
55:57
it's one page in my journal Bible
55:59
and it's just absolutely chock full of awesome stuff.
56:01
Guys, we're going to have to--
56:02
- Can I say one thing before we do.
56:03
- No, I want to do my entro.
56:04
Can I do my entro?
56:05
Go ahead, Matt.
56:06
Yeah, just go ahead and hop in.
56:07
- God's glory will be proclaimed.
56:10
And God calls His people to be a witness to the nations.
56:14
And right here is a gospel truth
56:18
that God will be proclaimed to the nations.
56:21
And it's through a work of some people
56:24
who are faithful to God and God is proclaimed.
56:27
And that is awesome.
56:29
- And they weren't just faithful.
56:30
They got after it.
56:31
- They got after it, and they did the work.
56:33
- They did the work, yeah, they absolutely did the work.
56:34
But guys, we'll have to leave it there.
56:36
But come back next Sunday,
56:37
where we are going to dig into Nehemiah 7.
56:39
Make sure you read that,
56:40
so you're prepared for next week.
56:41
But before we let you go,
56:42
we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
56:44
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56:45
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56:47
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like this coming your way.
57:29
Just go to www.undaunted.life.
57:32
Also, we want to thank the band Holy Name
57:34
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
57:36
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
57:39
which is off their self-titled debut album
57:41
on Face Down Records.
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The links are in the description.
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I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
57:46
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
57:49
keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
57:52
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
57:55
(upbeat music)
58:07
(upbeat music)
58:10
- You focus on your physical and mental health,
58:15
but when's the last time you checked in
58:16
on your financial health?
58:18
Many Americans feel financially anxious,
58:20
yet many are doing better than they think.
58:23
At Fairwind's Credit Union,
58:24
we give you a clear snapshot of your finances
58:27
and a plan to move forward with confidence.
58:29
With high-yield savings and free checking,
58:31
we help your money work harder.
58:33
Visit fairwinds.org for more information,
58:36
federally insured by NCUA.