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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
1:25
Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness
1:30
with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:33
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:37
by digging into God's Word, or we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:40
That's Eric. That's Matt. Guys, we are digging into Nehemiah 5 today.
1:45
I'm very, very excited to dig into Nehemiah 5.
1:48
When you get into the first four chapters, one thing that I notice is I talk about Nehemiah 5
1:53
and I look forward to Nehemiah 5 or really anything in Nehemiah is I usually focus on the first four chapters
2:01
because that's where the most stuff without Chapter 3 being as exciting.
2:06
That's where the most stuff goes down, but there's a major shift with Nehemiah 5.
2:12
We've been talking about defense and we've been talking about we're going to do this and we're going to do that
2:16
and we're going to make sure that we're vigilant, which we talked a lot about last week,
2:20
biblical defense of self-defense and man, those are kind of banner episodes.
2:24
But now we're starting to get into what is happening with the people.
2:28
There's some damage that's coming to these people.
2:31
And again, reminder, this is a people that has been downtrodden for generations, right?
2:36
They've been beat up. They've been, you know, mentally destroyed.
2:40
And the rebuilding of the wall is almost like a metaphor for the rebuilding of who they are
2:45
as an attitude, as a people, as a personality.
2:48
The first two verses here in Nehemiah 5.
2:51
Now there arose a great outcry of the people and of their wives against their Jewish brothers.
2:56
That's very important against their Jewish brothers.
2:58
Not against Geshim, not against Tabiah, not against Sandballot, against their Jewish brothers.
3:03
For there were those who said, "With our sons and our daughters, we are many.
3:07
So let us get grain that we may eat and keep alive."
3:10
So at this time, when the word or the work of the Lord rather is taking place,
3:16
they're rebuilding the walls. Nehemiah, it has come in.
3:19
He eventually kicks the door down and he's getting after it.
3:22
People are starving to death.
3:24
And the reality is, is because the men were working on the wall, some in defense,
3:29
some in actual working as we've talked about at length at this point.
3:33
But in doing that, it made it harder for them to provide for their families.
3:38
And so there's a practical element here that this is a severe crisis that involves everyone.
3:44
And if not addressed, will affect the work that's going on.
3:48
And so for me, this is a hard left turn in terms of what we're looking at with Nehemiah.
3:53
Apparently, I'm the only one that thinks that.
3:57
You know how much I hate dead air.
3:58
And every single one of y'all looked at the other people, Matt,
4:00
you breathe the hardest and you have to talk down.
4:02
You have to talk down.
4:03
Well, you know, I think obviously they are,
4:07
I think this kind of speaks to like the just the trials
4:11
and what happens when you're so hyper focused that you forget about the hard things
4:17
that happen in doing the muck and the mire.
4:20
Like there's a cost to everything.
4:22
And they're toiling and they're laboring and they're being harassed by and surrounded
4:28
by their enemies that there is this, okay, well, now we don't have food.
4:34
We don't have grain.
4:36
And so I think you can sometimes forget the things that you need,
4:43
but you can't overlook that, I guess.
4:48
Well, think about from a leadership perspective.
4:53
Again, if you're in a position where you're leading big teams
4:56
or you're part of a team or you're leading your family and you think about the times,
5:00
maybe it's now, maybe it's in the past or maybe it's coming up
5:03
or you've got a difficult task that you need to achieve.
5:06
Like one of those things that really drives everybody together,
5:09
it's very easy for you to forget what's happening inside or what's happening with your team,
5:15
the practical elements.
5:16
And I think that's what makes leadership so difficult.
5:19
Some of the guys we've talked about the last couple of episodes
5:22
that focus a lot on leadership get into this.
5:24
Really effective leaders understand that balance.
5:27
And it's not just about the biggest,
5:30
baddest message that we're going to go out and conquer this, it's being effective,
5:34
which means you got to care for what's happening inside your house.
5:37
While you're pursuing this large objective, it's difficult.
5:40
We've also got to repeat the message too.
5:43
I think this is also an indication of how forgetful we are as a people.
5:48
And Exodus talks about, God literally delivers these people out of slavery.
5:54
And then because they're not eating, they're not eating the way they think they should be eating,
5:58
like, "Wow, it just takes us back to Egypt. We'll be slaves there."
6:02
And I think this is kind of a little picture of that too.
6:06
We know what we're doing is right and we know what we're doing is provisioned by God.
6:11
But now we feel like we're in this place of want and need and don't have.
6:18
And I think there's a little bit of that going on too.
6:21
How forgetful are we?
6:23
Well, and I know that me personally, I have a tendency to just work really hard on one thing
6:28
and I can let other things kind of go and slide.
6:31
And maybe there's some, I have some margin there, but it's really easy for me to get caught just on that one thing.
6:36
And then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh man, I had this I should have been doing."
6:40
It's like eating one thing on your plate at a time.
6:42
And then by the time you get to the best thing, it's already cold.
6:45
So I see that maybe as partly what's going on here.
6:50
So I mean, just to highlight it to your, I mean, in the midst of a great work for a great God,
6:54
the Jews had a great cry among the workers.
6:57
They were not crying out against the Samaritans or the Ammonites or the Arabs,
7:01
but against their own people.
7:03
Jew was exploiting Jew and the economic situation had become so desperate
7:08
that even the wives who usually kept silent were joining in the protest.
7:12
Leadership requires you to be on point and engaged from every aspect all the time.
7:18
When that's what you see from really great managers.
7:21
The best managers are not just managing their employees.
7:24
They're managing the employees and their families.
7:26
Because you will have those hard charging.
7:28
We're going to get it done regardless of the cost type people.
7:31
The cost might be someone's family.
7:33
And if that cost becomes too high, you're not going to have that employee anymore.
7:36
Because they're going to make a big change.
7:38
Because we all heard these stories of these guys that they focus too much on work.
7:41
They're doing the 80 hour work weeks.
7:42
And then also they lose their family.
7:44
And then they make a huge major adjustment in the opposite direction.
7:47
Okay, I'm going to work a part time job, you know, at Chick-fil-A.
7:50
And then I'm going to, you know, just work, you know, I'm going to stay here
7:52
and I'm going to give as much time to you, which women will complain about anything.
7:55
Sorry, ladies, but it's just like they'll complain if you're not making enough.
7:58
And then if you're making too much and they're not spending enough time,
8:01
you're never going to satisfy everybody.
8:03
Either your wife's going to be disappointed, your kids are going to be disappointed,
8:05
your boss is going to be disappointed.
8:07
You know, the president of the Chamber of Commerce is going to be disappointed.
8:10
You can't give enough of yourself to everybody.
8:12
You can't be five stars in all areas of life.
8:15
Zach, can you read three, four, and five, please?
8:18
There were also those who said we are mortgaging our fields, our vineyards,
8:24
our houses to get the grain because of the famine.
8:27
And there were those who said we have borrowed money for the king's tax on our fields
8:32
and our vineyards.
8:33
Now our flesh is as the flesh of our brothers.
8:36
Our children are their children.
8:38
Yet we are forcing our sons and our daughters to be slaves
8:41
and some of our daughters have already been enslaved.
8:44
But it is not in our power to help it for other men have our fields and our vineyards.
8:50
And so what's being described here, again, it's not appropriate to look at this as
8:54
chattel slavery like we saw with the African slave trade.
8:57
What we're seeing here is basically temporary debt slavery where you would, you know,
9:03
take one of your kids and they would go work off part of your family debt.
9:06
Maybe you would go work off family debt.
9:08
Maybe you would sell your entire family, including yourself into debt.
9:11
You know, it's not the same as shadow slavery like I said, but it's still bad.
9:15
It's a direct attack on the nuclear family.
9:18
And that's the thing that we talk about.
9:19
I remember when, you know, Black Lives Matter was coming out in 2020.
9:22
People are trying to figure out what that organization is all about.
9:24
And it's like, well, let's go to their website and see what it's about.
9:26
One of the things is like, yeah, we want to destroy the nuclear family and people are like,
9:29
well, that doesn't sound good.
9:30
It's like, no, this is a grift.
9:32
And that is one of the things that they're telling you.
9:34
They're showing you their hand and you're still betting into them.
9:37
Like this is not really a good plan.
9:39
But this has a direct attack on the nuclear family because it's going to be taking the father out of the family,
9:44
but it's also going to be destroying the kids.
9:46
Now that you see women lamenting publicly, that can't be good for what's going on in these Jewish households.
9:51
But also the important thing here is when they said they are mortgaging their fields or vineyards and our houses to get grain because of the famine.
9:57
That goes back to verse one where it talks about against their Jewish brothers.
10:02
Because in this time, as long as I understand this correctly, I'm trying to remember from memory,
10:06
you were not to take loans out with interest from other Jews.
10:11
Like that was against the law.
10:12
You couldn't do that.
10:13
That's part of the music.
10:14
It was for sure.
10:15
Right.
10:16
But also here too, they're like, because of the financial hardships and obviously the wall added to that.
10:24
So this is just amplified by the wall.
10:27
When you're going into that like bond service or bond servanthood, you're able to buy back.
10:35
You're dead.
10:37
But now they're in a situation where that seems like it's so desperate that that's that looks impossible.
10:46
So you just, it's just everything is stacking up.
10:49
Yes, they're balling.
10:50
Yes.
10:50
It's like, okay, famine, build new wall.
10:54
That's obviously just eating away everything.
10:56
Now I'm in bond servanthood, but now I can't, I don't even think that I can buy back my debt to get out of where I'm at.
11:03
So I'm just, I'm stuck.
11:04
It's a helpless situation where it's like, again, before Nehemiah arrived, they were helpless, but they thought that was normal.
11:11
So this has to have maybe a little bit of extra sting because they're seeing, they're seeing the light, right?
11:17
They're seeing a way out of their plight as a people.
11:20
And now it's just like crap, you know, because of this work that is saving us.
11:24
It's exactly what you're talking about in Exodus where it's like, gosh, maybe it would be better to be Pharaoh's slave again, because at least we had food.
11:30
Right.
11:31
We didn't have to meet eat manna every day.
11:32
It's one of those types of things.
11:33
You see the same thing with people that have been in penitentiaries or prisons for decades and decades.
11:38
And then they get out and they're like, Oh, this is hard.
11:41
Like it's easier to not have to make all these decisions.
11:43
I think about Yeonmi Park whenever she eventually made her way from North Korea to South Korea, which took her through China and Mongolia and all those types of things.
11:51
She remembers being overwhelmed in South Korea at options because of North Korea.
11:56
You're told what haircut you're allowed to have.
11:58
You're told what close to where you're told what to think.
12:00
And now you're in South Korea.
12:01
You can wear your hair however you want.
12:02
You could, you know, do your makeup.
12:04
You could buy jeans, which was a shocking thing for her.
12:07
You could eat wherever you wanted.
12:08
And then she got to American.
12:09
She's like, what in the world is all that?
12:11
There's wide open spaces over here.
12:13
I can just take off running in the middle of a field.
12:15
And it's just that was almost more paralyzing.
12:18
Yeah.
12:19
There's so much abundance here.
12:20
What's there's a, there's a movie or a quote in the other guys.
12:24
It's this guy is talking about America.
12:26
He's like, America is the baconator, a double baconator, extra bacon.
12:31
We live in so much abundance that it's just, there's so much.
12:35
I'm starving now.
12:36
I'm starving.
12:37
Thanks a lot.
12:38
Or you can say that.
12:39
So imagine this.
12:40
I mean, I guess these guys are busy building the wall.
12:42
So I don't know that they're necessarily coming home to the dinner table, sitting down with
12:45
their wife and having a discussion.
12:47
But I could imagine something like, if God's helping us do this, why are we starving?
12:53
Why are we giving everything up?
12:55
And the way I'm seeing it is more like maybe, you know, your wife is asking you a bunch
12:58
of questions.
12:59
What's the application now in your world and your life?
13:03
You know, do you find yourself in a circumstance where you feel like you're giving something
13:07
to the Lord that you're progressing in that?
13:10
But there's a whole part of your life that's just not coming along.
13:13
And you're, you're catching, you know, some, some feedback.
13:16
That's, that's maybe, you know, hindering.
13:18
Well, I'm just thinking of like the many instances in the Old Testament where things seem to
13:25
be okay.
13:26
And then all of a sudden there's like this, you know, there's hardship.
13:28
People are dying and there's a famine and whatever.
13:31
And, you know, you come, the priest or the, the prophet or whatever goes for the Lord.
13:37
And the Lord's like, they're sin and you're camp.
13:40
And because of that, there's this dress.
13:43
And so that, I mean, that's what we see here is we see brothers, brothers taking advantage
13:48
of brothers.
13:49
And that's just completely not right.
13:51
So I mean, see God is using this opportunity.
13:54
And as we've talked about, to start working into the people's hearts and to start ridding
13:59
them of this, and then rebuilding them, rereading on the sand.
14:04
He's, he's circumcised.
14:05
Yeah.
14:06
That's right.
14:07
I think there's a, there's also an aspect of sanctification here where when you become
14:13
a Christian, I think a lot of times people think my life's going to be great now.
14:19
Jesus is my homie and life's going to be good.
14:24
I'm going to go make a million dollars and it's because I'm a Christian and I think God
14:31
wants to answer our prayers.
14:32
Sometimes it's yes.
14:33
Sometimes it's no.
14:34
And sometimes it's not yet.
14:36
And I learned that from my pastor Terry Fakes who very, very wise man, but that's so true.
14:42
We want, we want yes or no, but sometimes we're not prepared for the not yet.
14:46
And while they're, yes, they're sin, I think there's an aspect of they're being sanctified
14:50
here too.
14:51
Like, like in Exodus, we're enslaved, God brings us out, but then we're so discontent
14:57
that we want to go back to slavery, back to slavery.
15:02
After we watched God, the creator of the universe, like pull us out of slavery, we want to go
15:06
back because we're not eating the food we want to eat.
15:09
And I think there's a sanctification process that's going on here too.
15:13
We've seen the plagues.
15:16
They've seen the parting of the Red Sea.
15:17
It reminds me back when you see the people that watch Jesus's ascension.
15:22
And it says, and some of them doubt it.
15:25
It's like, what, what else do you need to see?
15:28
Like we're the strings.
15:29
How about, how about Thomas?
15:31
He's with Jesus for three years, watching his miracles, watching him heal.
15:35
He has his faith in him, but he's like, no, I need to see the wounds and his hands and
15:38
feet.
15:39
He couldn't believe it.
15:40
But isn't that just us because like Thomas, there's points in Thomas where he's like,
15:43
if we're going to die, let's go.
15:44
I'm ready with you.
15:46
And then he then, then he's like, I got to, I got to see the wounds.
15:51
So like, I think there's, there's, we go through ebbs and flows too on our Christian walk where
15:55
yeah, I'm ready to, I'm ready to march and knock down the gates of hell for Christ.
16:00
And then I don't know, I'm not, I don't know if I'm ready.
16:03
That feels like an iron sharpening iron situation.
16:05
I appreciate the feedback.
16:06
I mean, from everybody that we just had and thinking through that a little bit, I guess
16:11
it was good for this to come out in these circumstances because you had men of God that
16:16
were there.
16:17
You had Jew taking advantage of Jew and it probably just would have continued on unchecked
16:22
if it hadn't come about.
16:23
So while they're rebuilding the nation and the wall and all that stuff, it had to be
16:26
in the right order of things, but eventually they got to figure it out and get it aligned
16:30
again.
16:31
Absolutely.
16:32
Eric, can you read six through nine again?
16:37
Oh, gosh, why the delay here?
16:42
I know.
16:43
So six or nine, do you stop me if I go over because I've been looking at them and I became
16:49
very angry when I heard their outcry and these words after serious thought, I rebuked the
16:55
nobles and rulers and I said to them, each of you is exacting usury from his brother.
17:01
So I called a great assembly against them and I said to them, according to our ability,
17:05
we ever deemed our Jewish brethren who were sold to the nations.
17:10
Now indeed, will you even sell your brethren or should they be sold to us?
17:16
Then they were silenced and found nothing to say.
17:20
Then I said, what are you, what you are doing is not good.
17:24
Should you not walk in the fear of our God because of the reproach of the nations, our
17:28
enemies?
17:29
Can't stop.
17:30
What version was that?
17:31
I don't know.
17:32
Because I'm like falling to the USB and I'm like, oh my gosh, if he's reading the message.
17:37
I'm falling up online and I, you know, what that doesn't say that.
17:41
You have a principal right there and just move your laptop out of the way, bring it close
17:46
to your face.
17:47
I'm just lazy.
17:48
That's fine.
17:49
Great.
17:50
We'll deal with that later.
17:51
But okay.
17:52
So in my version here in verse six, it says, I took counsel with myself.
17:55
So this is me and my writing and that's so common for him, right?
17:59
He's very calculating.
18:00
Right. So what he's not saying there is, well, I depended on my own wisdom and I just kind
18:05
of put a place together again.
18:06
We've seen no evidence that he's relying on his own self throughout any of the first four
18:10
chapters and into the fifth chapter of Nehemiah.
18:13
But you know, I took counsel with myself and he brought charges against the nobles and
18:16
officials.
18:17
That's obviously a big deal.
18:18
But when you get into verse seven, this is where we're talking about usury and the big
18:22
thing about that, that's not a common word that we knew now or that we know now.
18:26
It's exploitative taxation, right, or it could be exploitative interest.
18:31
And in this day, the interest on loans could easily exceed 50%.
18:36
And I mean, you think about like current credit card interest rates, like they're criminal.
18:42
They're like half of that, like even the worst ones are just like half of that.
18:46
You know what I mean?
18:47
And so it was very exploitative.
18:48
And again, it was against the law against the Jewish law to charge interest towards other
18:53
Jews.
18:54
But this is a very, very big deal because this is almost like a compounding negativity
19:01
that was happening to the people because they were already starving.
19:04
They were doing what it takes to get out of that situation by mortgaging themselves.
19:09
And now their own people are taking advantage of them.
19:11
I know we just got through talking about that.
19:13
But man, like that's still just a bad deal.
19:16
I just want to kind of draw a little bit more on that and kind of talk a little bit about
19:19
how bad that actually was.
19:21
Yeah, I'll just I'll say I'll be quick, but you know, just because you can doesn't mean
19:27
you should.
19:29
I think that's what I that's what I keep hearing in my head.
19:31
It's like just because they can take advantage of the situation doesn't mean they should
19:35
should just because they could make some money, grab some land, whatever doesn't mean they
19:40
should.
19:41
It doesn't make it right.
19:42
Yeah.
19:43
And in God's in God's law and God's economy, by what standard, we get a lot of our laws
19:49
on how to treat people from the Mosaic law.
19:53
And how do you treat the poor?
19:55
If someone is someone is going to go without and they need help, God's law calls for that
20:01
to be a gift, you to give them something as a gift.
20:04
You're not to exact something that can't be paid back, like not only can they not pay
20:08
you back for the money that you loan them, they certainly don't have money to pay you
20:11
back.
20:12
You're supposed to view that as a I am giving you this with no thought of you repaying me.
20:20
And so that then that's that's where I think Nehemiah probably had that real like pit of
20:25
anger of what these people can't pay back at all.
20:30
And whose resources are there?
20:32
Exactly.
20:33
Exactly.
20:34
I think it's important.
20:35
I think it's God's.
20:36
I think that's that's what the answer you're looking for, right?
20:38
Yeah.
20:39
Nailed it.
20:40
Great job.
20:41
Zach tried to get you.
20:42
That's a good table.
20:43
But then, but then it gets into verse 10, which is more over I and my brothers and my
20:47
servants are lending them money and grain.
20:50
Let us abandon this exacting of interest.
20:52
Now the way I read it in the way I've come to understand this after study is that Nehemiah
20:57
was part of the problem, apparently he was also doing this.
21:00
Now some people will say because of verse six, I was very angry when I heard their outcry
21:04
and these words that he was somehow shocked by what was happening.
21:08
Some people have drawn the conclusion that Nehemiah was actually loaning without interest.
21:13
But the majority of the people that I read said verse 10 is basically his confession that
21:18
he was also doing this.
21:20
I'm curious from you guys.
21:21
I'm seeing some not so sure faces on the other side of the table.
21:24
Is that not kind of what y'all gathered?
21:26
I would just say that based on what we're going to read later, I would kind of get the
21:31
impression that he was pretty high like character and I'll just we'll save that for a little
21:37
bit later.
21:39
Because he wasn't taking what was rightly his if he wanted to from the king.
21:43
So I didn't get that same impression.
21:46
I thought maybe it says after serious thought or when I counseled against myself, I'm imagining
21:52
him being really pretty [inaudible] off about this and it's the first time they didn't say and
21:56
I prayed about this and maybe he did, but I don't know.
22:02
So this is Wiersby's direct line, he just says, Nehemiah appealed to his own personal practice,
22:07
he was lending money to the needy, but he was not charging interest or robbing them of
22:11
their security.
22:12
Nehemiah was not a hypocrite.
22:13
He practiced what he preached.
22:15
That's one opinion, I guess.
22:16
Yeah.
22:17
And what did you see, Matt?
22:18
Well, I think, again, this, I think this points back to Christ again, because there's
22:24
a redemptive cost that's being paid and the law and how God wants to carry out this redemption
22:32
is this is a free gift and our brothers have been who have been sold to the nations.
22:38
That's all of us have been redeemed.
22:41
We have, they have been bought back.
22:43
I have bought them back.
22:45
And now you are trying to exact something else from them.
22:50
That's a, that's a hard stop.
22:51
They have been bought back for a price, for a price period.
22:55
Yeah.
22:56
I would say it looks like they're that that's a great point, Matt.
22:58
It looks like there's some differences in opinion here as to kind of what's happening,
23:04
but it really doesn't change.
23:05
And I don't know that it's fully the point because the way I read it is that he seems
23:08
fairly convicted by himself and maybe it's like he kind of sees, because I think when
23:13
I was reading Moody or MacArthur or some of those, it was, that was kind of the thought
23:16
is like he even felt convicted, like he was so focused on the work that, you know, and
23:21
I don't want to miss a line if I'm misquoting, but it's like they were so focused on the
23:25
work that even Nehemiah and his team are doing the exact same thing, perhaps seeing a pragmatic
23:29
approach to that.
23:30
Like, Hey, we need money for the wall.
23:31
We need money to take care of business.
23:32
Yeah.
23:33
Hey, we've got the money right now or our people need need this, but that's not really
23:36
the point, Matt.
23:37
If you could go ahead and read 11 through 13, I think this is where we get into the point.
23:44
Return to return to them this very day.
23:47
Their fields, their vineyards, their olive orchards and their houses and the percentage
23:52
of money, grain, wine and oil that you have been exacting from them.
23:56
Then they said, we will restore these and require nothing from them.
24:00
We will do as you say.
24:02
And I called the priests and made them swear to do as they had promised.
24:05
Go ahead, do 13, yeah, I'm listening skills.
24:11
I also shook out the fold of my garment and said, so may God shake out every man from his
24:17
house and from his labor who does not keep this promise, so may he be shaken out and
24:23
emptied and all the assembly said, Amen, and praise the Lord and the people did as they
24:28
had promised.
24:30
So right there in verse 13, we see, you know, shake out.
24:34
I saw a lot of commentaries about the use of shake out and how Nehemiah was basically
24:38
calling for a curse.
24:39
If they didn't, they didn't do anything.
24:40
He was basically calling it.
24:41
This isn't like a, another Pregatory prayer, but this is, or imprecatory.
24:46
Pregatory, imprecatory, imprecatory, it's not another imprecatory prayer, but he is like
24:51
calling for God's judgment and a curse in this moment.
24:54
But the overwhelming thing for me is I'm reading 11 through 13 is gosh, Nehemiah doesn't seem
25:00
like he's asking politely.
25:02
And I was told reliably that Christians are supposed to be nice all the time and their
25:07
words should never come off biting or judgmental or pointed or stinky or sticky or any of those
25:12
things.
25:13
But he's not asking politely of these men to, you know, repent and turn the other way.
25:18
He's demanding it.
25:19
So whether he's doing that off of his own conviction, because he was doing it the same
25:23
or he was always above board the entire way, he's, he's literally demanding that they make
25:27
changes and it looks like they acquiesce and this is how could you be.
25:30
I'm sorry.
25:31
I shouldn't go back to this.
25:32
Everybody wanted to jump in on that.
25:33
So I just want to go back because.
25:35
So on on verse six, I was very angry when I heard their outcry and these words, I took
25:42
counsel with myself and I brought charges against the nobles and the officials.
25:46
I said to them, you are exciting interest from each of his brother and I held a great
25:51
assembly.
25:52
And then it says, we as far as we are able have brought back our Jewish brothers who
25:55
have been sold to the nations, but you even sell your brothers that they may be sold to
26:00
us, et cetera.
26:02
I mean, I don't, I can't understand how he could have a righteous indignation and anger
26:09
and stand on his own two feet with any sort of credibility unless he's saying you, you
26:13
guys need to do.
26:14
How did Thomas Jefferson write the Declaration of Independence and saying all men are created
26:17
equal and still own slaves?
26:20
We are walking contradictions.
26:22
So that, that would be one answer to it.
26:25
During this discussion, I would say I tend to lean more towards what y'all are saying
26:29
and you're understanding.
26:30
But that's the thing all the time, almost all the signers of the Declaration of Independence
26:33
had slaves and yet in order to get that signed and even have a country to begin with, they
26:38
couldn't split the south off because the Civil War would have happened way earlier.
26:41
So it's, that's, it's the tension of history.
26:42
I didn't sign up to talk about Thomas Jefferson with my question.
26:45
I was just looking specifically.
26:46
You opened up Pindoor's house, maybe.
26:48
What am I supposed to do?
26:50
I, I, I would agree with Zach on that point, but back to what we just read, I think again,
26:59
as it points towards Christ, this is not about interest.
27:03
This is not about following the, the ceremonial law.
27:09
This is about the two commandments that they're all built upon.
27:15
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.
27:19
And they are in direct violation of commandment one and two here.
27:24
And that is, I think that is the main point of what, what gets Nehemiah is the law is written
27:32
so that we know how to serve God and that we know how to serve our neighbor.
27:40
And I think that's a point that can't be missed is that we weren't treating neighbors
27:44
very well right now.
27:45
Yeah.
27:46
And, and, and get a think too that God rebukes us.
27:51
This is just an opportunity for Nehemiah to, to provide rebuke, rebuke, but it's not for
27:58
anything outside of love, you know, God loves.
28:01
I mean, what is it, uh, revel, it's in revelation is in Hebrews, I think I've got it pulled
28:06
up there, but it says, you know, God rebukes those whom he loves, you know, so it's not,
28:11
he doesn't do it to tear us down.
28:13
He does it accomplishes purpose, you know, and I, and I had this written down.
28:17
A God who doesn't correct you is a fictitious God.
28:21
You know, so if you, if you're, if you're out there just rolling around and you don't
28:24
ever feel the Holy Spirit convict you or to feel the rebuke of God in your life, you may
28:29
be serving a fictitious God.
28:30
I agree with that.
28:31
I think I also think there's some real life application as it, as it speaks to the body
28:35
of Christ today.
28:37
We were all bought for a price, but how many churches do we go into where the body of Christ
28:42
will say, Zach was bought for a price, but I need you to do this.
28:48
And I think that's another thing that Nehemiah speaking to is you are bought for a price
28:53
end of sentence.
28:55
And we can require all these works to do whatever it is that fits us into that specific body.
29:04
And I think that is a violation of God's law because Christ bought us full stop.
29:11
There's not, there's not a requirement for us to then sell ourselves to anybody because
29:18
we've already been bought.
29:19
And I think that that is speaking, I think that's speaking to that too.
29:25
We're bought.
29:26
That's in the sentence.
29:27
Is that, am I wrong there?
29:29
Is that crazy?
29:30
No.
29:31
No.
29:32
I guess depending on what your perspective is, one thing I was going to say is just, and
29:36
I know you'll like this, is that it was kind of a public sin.
29:41
So it was a public ordeal.
29:43
So everybody had to come in together.
29:45
And so he didn't let it fester once he found out according to this.
29:49
He had a lot of right.
29:50
Just anger.
29:51
He brought everybody in.
29:52
Because you could imagine you could go to the nobles or the rich people individually
29:54
and try to work something out, but he brings everybody in together.
29:58
They discuss it.
29:59
And as one, they all agree to it by saying, oh, man, which I think is a powerful way to
30:04
get something done quickly.
30:05
Yeah.
30:06
And then they did it.
30:07
It says in the, did according to the promise, when I was first starting being mentored many
30:13
years ago, the gentleman I was sitting down the way that they said, you know, I looked
30:16
for a certain kind of person, I said, okay, what kind of person is that?
30:20
And he said, I look for fat people and I was like, Oh, okay, well, what are we talking about?
30:24
Fat.
30:25
A P H A T.
30:26
No, no, F A T. It's an acronyms.
30:29
So I look for faithful, available and teachable people.
30:33
I was like, great.
30:36
That's wonderful.
30:37
And over the years, you know, I've kind of tried to live by that, just out trying to
30:39
be faithful to have a meeting with or whoever's meeting with me and to be prepared to be
30:45
available and obviously be teachable.
30:47
But I think one of the things that there was a time where I was, I, I requested, I said,
30:52
you know, one of the things I don't ever see discussed in our, in our individual meetings
30:57
or our, or more corporate meetings is this idea of rebuke.
31:01
And I am, you know, and as soon as I said that, I got pushed back like, Oh, I don't,
31:06
I don't know if that's a really good topic for us to discuss, you know, and have an hour
31:10
long like deal on, and I thought that was really, really weird because it's very clear
31:15
in the Bible that rebuke is, is a powerful and righteous thing that we should do.
31:19
So I was wrote down, maybe I should look for not just a fat person, but a fart person.
31:25
So faithful, available, rebucable and teachable, you know, we can go frat those other ways.
31:32
No, we need shirts that say just fats and farts.
31:36
No context needed. If you're not a fan of this show, you will not get it, but fats and
31:41
farts.
31:42
Bring me your fats and farts.
31:43
So that, that actually brings up something and yeah, we'll have enough time to kind of
31:46
get into this a little bit.
31:47
So we talked about a lot in the last episode, but we talked about this hesitancy by Christians
31:51
are more pacifistic in their orientation.
31:53
The 11th commandment be as nice as possible, never make anyone mad at all and never make
31:57
anybody feel negative feelings.
31:59
So what ends up happening though, from a sanctification, well, maybe not sanctification from a discipleship
32:04
standpoint, is we are not teaching our flocks how to rebuke.
32:08
And so we are just figuring it out on our own how to rebuke and then we do it wrongly
32:14
or poorly or too severely.
32:18
And so because our modern day pastors don't want to even rebuke from the pulpit, we're
32:23
certainly not being discipled and how to appropriately and biblically rebuke our neighbor.
32:29
And so doesn't that make it hard to love our neighbor as ourself if we can't love them
32:32
fully, including rebuke?
32:34
It does, but it starts before that.
32:36
Like we don't live in a time that puts emphasis on this tells us how to rebuke.
32:40
It also tells us what's rebucable.
32:43
And if our basis lifted up his Bible frame by not watching us, like if our foundation
32:47
isn't in the word, we don't know how to rebuke, but we also don't know what to rebuke.
32:52
And I think a lot of times Christians will take the they'll take the easy out and not
32:56
go for the rebuke.
32:57
And I know this is true from my own life because somebody might say, well, that's not that's
33:01
wrong.
33:02
That's unbiblical.
33:03
You're going to side on what you know, and Jesus tells us to love everybody.
33:07
I do know that.
33:08
And so I'm going to, I'm going to side on that and I'm going to, I'm just going to couch,
33:11
I'm going to hedge my bets and I'm just going to say, okay, God, Jesus said just love.
33:15
So I don't know if that's true what you're saying, but I don't know what I'm just going
33:19
to say Jesus loves.
33:20
So if you're not in the word, and this is a call and an invitation to anybody watching,
33:25
I didn't know it was rebucable either.
33:27
And I didn't know how to rebuke.
33:29
And I promise you, if you will commit to getting into the word, this is, this is in less than
33:34
three years, I can now firmly stand on the truth.
33:39
And I can give an apologia of my faith or apologia, however you want a tomato tomato,
33:46
but like if you're not grounded in the word, you don't even have a shot.
33:50
Yeah.
33:51
And how can you even know that there is something to rebuke or address unless you're living
33:58
in relationship with people?
33:59
I would argue, at least from my perspective, historically, you just attend church, nobody
34:04
knows me, nobody knows what I'm doing.
34:07
Nobody knows anything, right?
34:08
It's not until we got involved in small groups or whatever your church calls them.
34:12
If you're not in one, that's where the church happens.
34:15
Much of the church happens, in my opinion.
34:18
That's where you grow.
34:19
And that's where I think there's an opportunity for somebody that has invested in you, that
34:22
knows you and that you're going to respect when they come and say, "Hey, look, I'm seeing something here you need to look at."
34:27
You're so right.
34:29
This is where I get concerned, though, because you're exactly right.
34:33
That's where the hands and the feet happen.
34:35
That's where, as of the recording of this yesterday, there were a couple of crazy wildfires
34:40
in Oklahoma and one of them almost took out, they was within a mile of people that are
34:45
in our Sunday school, they're called adult Bible fellowships that are church for no good
34:50
reason whatsoever.
34:51
I find the world would you call them that, they're Sunday school classrooms, you're weirdos.
34:54
But like, there were a bunch of people getting ready.
34:57
My wife and I were like, "Okay, they've got two kids and a dog.
35:01
How can we house them here where everybody's taking care of it?"
35:03
We're already doing that.
35:04
That's the hands and the feet.
35:06
The problem is, it's even hard to rebuke in small groups.
35:10
And so, I'll just throw a scenario out.
35:13
Let's say there's somebody in your small group that's dating somebody else.
35:17
They're not married.
35:18
But you know they're living together and you know they're sleeping together and you also
35:22
know they're probably going to get married and both of them have previously been divorced
35:25
and not because of death or adultery.
35:29
Are we going to rebuke?
35:30
Are we just going to clap along as we do their, you know, go to their wedding and celebrate
35:35
them and do a shower and all those different things?
35:37
When clearly, even if you're a red-letter Christian, the words of Jesus would say, "No,
35:40
these people are committing an act of adultery and that is a sin that is damnable that can
35:46
send you to hell as all sins are."
35:48
And so, I think that's the part is we're still gun shy to rebuke the people that we purportedly
35:54
love.
35:55
And I don't know that I necessarily have a point as it pertains to Nehemiah 5 here.
35:59
But I guess that's more of a overall observation of community that we seem all too eager to
36:05
rebuke somebody.
36:06
This reminds me of something from my interview with Matt Griner, the drummer of Oxburn's
36:09
Red.
36:10
You know, somebody that will share Jesus with the person making your sandwich at Subway,
36:14
but not with their brother.
36:16
Because you can just share Jesus with the guy putting ham on your sandwich.
36:19
And then if you reject, it's like, "All right, I'm taking my chips and I'm leaving."
36:22
But it's like when it's your brother, you're actually pushing some relational chips to the
36:25
center of the table.
36:27
We're all too cowardly to do that because there might be some pain and some awkwardness
36:31
happen.
36:32
But we're willing to rebuke a stranger for their life decisions or for their sinful
36:36
choices.
36:37
Does that kind of make sense?
36:38
Yeah, well, let's call that what that really is though.
36:41
That's idolatry.
36:42
Yes, I am worshipping the relationship that I have with my brother and the comfort that
36:47
I have with my brother or whoever over the creator of the universe.
36:54
And that's a sin and idolatry is terrible.
37:00
And so that's what that is.
37:02
Would you guys agree with that?
37:04
I think you're worshipping something else over God.
37:07
Oh, yeah, I mean, you're prioritizing what they think about you over what they actually
37:12
need.
37:13
That's really what it is.
37:14
I mean, my son and I yesterday, we're just talking about that as it relates to sharing
37:18
the gospel.
37:19
And I said, wouldn't it be a shame if the people you hang out with, you don't get to hang out
37:22
with for eternity, just because you were worried about sharing the gospel with them because
37:28
of the ramifications.
37:29
I think that I go back and forth.
37:32
I don't know that I need to go to my brother or a family member.
37:35
Maybe I do and have like a full-throated gospel and I've done this and I've seen the results
37:39
of some of that too.
37:40
What do you go, Greg Cocle and put a rock in the shoe?
37:43
And then from my perspective, now having been into this for several years now, I'm getting
37:48
questions because people see that my life has changed.
37:51
So the change in me is causing its own witness and then you can respond.
37:56
Here's a little bit of my concern and I originally, excuse me, was made aware of this.
38:00
He was a Matt Chandler sermon from years ago, when he was like, you know, you're taught
38:05
in like church camp and I know you didn't grow up going to church camp and I didn't really
38:08
either.
38:09
But you learn in church camp, like you're going to be the one friend in your friend group
38:13
that's different.
38:14
You're not, and it's all behavioral modification stuff.
38:16
You're not going to drink and you're not going to watch our rated movies and you're not going
38:19
to make out with girls and you're going to do all these things that all the, or you're
38:23
not going to do these things that your friends are all doing.
38:25
And then somehow, some way, they're going to be like, you know what?
38:28
That guy's different.
38:29
I'm going to go up to them and ask them how they're different.
38:33
You know, and then everybody like gives a thumbs up to the camera and then it becomes a cheesy
38:36
mentos commercial.
38:37
Like I don't know and this was matching those points.
38:39
Like I don't know that I've ever met someone that did evangelism that way where they were
38:43
just so good and so godly that people came up to him and said, Hey, you, your life seems
38:48
to have a lot of fruit.
38:50
Where's that fruit come from?
38:51
Jesus.
38:52
Awesome.
38:53
Can I get some Jesus?
38:54
I would like a double order of Jesus, please.
38:56
So that's, I guess a little bit of my concern where I would push on people and I pushed on
38:59
Matt Griner.
39:00
I'm going to push on you as well is evangelism is not like this accidental thing.
39:04
And I think it's a guston who is like, you know, always share the gospel and sometimes
39:07
use words or something like that.
39:09
It's like, that's cute.
39:10
It looks good on a bumper sticker, but like you have to share the gospel with somebody,
39:15
the actual language of it.
39:16
Otherwise, they're just going to be learning how to have a proper amounts of behavioral
39:20
modification.
39:21
Matt, you're chomping out to get in here.
39:22
Life should be a witness, no doubt, but God gives laws to the Jewish people through Moses
39:30
to be a witness to the nations.
39:32
This is wrong regardless of where you live.
39:35
You are going to be a witness to the nation so they know what is right and wrong.
39:39
But the Bible also says faith comes through hearing.
39:44
You know what you don't hear?
39:45
You don't hear actions.
39:46
You've got to preach the word.
39:48
And again, this is just as much for me as it is anybody listening.
39:52
The word should be preached and you should, you should be speaking to people.
39:57
And I love Penn from Penn & Teller, his story about Christian evangelizing to him and he
40:03
ends it with, how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize to them?
40:11
How much, if you think you actually believe that the God of the universe sent his son
40:16
to die for you on the cross so that you can have eternal life by calling on his name,
40:21
by being covered by his blood.
40:23
How much do you have to hate somebody to not tell them that, to not wish?
40:28
I want you to be in heaven too.
40:29
And to people that don't realize, Penn Gillette is an ardent atheist.
40:33
Yes.
40:34
He's a militant atheist.
40:35
So that's why he's literally saying, why aren't you Christians proselytizing more?
40:40
And he's absolutely right.
40:42
I don't disagree with that.
40:43
Just from my perspective, when I say drop in rocks, that is proactive, so you are having
40:46
discussions and you play it in the seeds.
40:48
I'm probably a little different case study because I'm thinking about how to be effective.
40:52
So if you're doing that consistently and you're encouraging them to have to think through
40:55
something on their own, I think then you can come back and continue.
40:58
I think.
40:59
Yeah.
41:00
And I see it both ways really and I agree all the way around.
41:03
I mean, even in my practice, I mean, I spend most of my day educating people, but we're
41:09
also just talking too, you know, and so there are there are strategies.
41:14
I mean, asking a question, do you, where do you guys go to church?
41:17
Where do you go to church?
41:18
You know, or saying things like, you know, Lord has really just blessed us this week.
41:22
You know, things like that are, you're planting seeds, you're opening up little doors, right?
41:27
So they kind of know they're getting the hint, hint kind of thing without you being like,
41:31
so do you love Jesus or not?
41:32
You know, whatever, but it does provide opportunities the more you have the opportunity to spend
41:38
time with that person.
41:39
So in general, at a high level, I agree with that to Matt's point, and this was the point
41:43
I made to Matt Greiner, not Matt Grasmaier sitting next to me, but the point I made to
41:47
Matt Greiner in the interview is you would be shocked to learn the number of people that
41:52
have been going to church the rest of their whole life that don't know the gospel.
41:57
They've never heard the gospel.
41:59
They've heard, you know, regardless of the church they go to, maybe they go to a legalistic
42:02
church and they were taught all the do's and don'ts of Christianity, or maybe they went
42:06
to a Ted talk church where they were taught, you know, how this can apply to their bank
42:09
account, how, you know, the Bible can apply to, you know, they're being nice to people
42:12
and being, you know, fighting for justice or whatever.
42:15
But it's like, they've never heard the good news of the gospel explicitly.
42:19
They've always heard it implicitly.
42:21
And so to a degree, that's actually what I feel like, like, this is where, you know,
42:25
a few weeks ago when we had a couple of different guys here at the table, I can't remember
42:29
what song we were talking about, but we talked about the pastor at our church who is a deeply
42:33
biblical man, a great expository preacher of the word, but I am critical of some of the
42:37
things that he's done before the midterm elections of 2022.
42:40
Before the Sunday, before the Tuesday election, he said, vote biblical values, and then he
42:45
moved on.
42:46
And I sat there slack, John, I was like, what?
42:50
That's it.
42:51
Vote biblical values.
42:52
Do you realize that some people will vote biblical values and then vote for the democratic
42:56
party that thinks it's okay to kill babies up until the moment of birth and have it paid
42:59
for by US taxpayers and that that can happen for any reason chosen by the mother?
43:05
Vote biblical values, like people, as Matt has said, they don't pick up the book.
43:09
They're not reading the book.
43:10
And here you are using this slogan, vote biblical values.
43:13
It's like, what do you mean?
43:15
You have to elucidate it.
43:17
And so it's like, it's like when you're communicating with somebody about the truth of the gospel,
43:21
you don't need to pick around the edges.
43:23
Like at some point, you do have to give a full description of what the Bible is.
43:27
You need to make sure that they have the availability to taste the true savoriness and
43:32
sweetness of the gospel in its entirety as a message.
43:35
Well, where does the truth come from?
43:37
And by what standard are we, are we being judged?
43:39
If I think that I'm a good person and I'm told that Jesus died for bad people so that
43:46
they would go to heaven, you think that doesn't apply to you, why would that apply to me?
43:50
And if I don't understand the depravity of my soul and that I am a sinner, I have no
43:55
use for the gospel.
43:58
And to your point, Zach, I think even the full third of conversations about the gospel in
44:03
the grand scheme of things are probably seed planters too.
44:08
But I also think we can put too much pressure on ourselves.
44:11
We're not going to, we're not going to out God's truth or that maybe that doesn't make
44:17
you, we're not going to, we're going to mess up God's truth.
44:20
Like, I can't put so much pressure on myself that if I say the wrong thing to you, you're
44:27
going to not accept Jesus or you're not going to become a Christian or you're going to reject
44:31
the gospel.
44:32
I think God is way more powerful than that.
44:35
So, so spending a lot of time in Uber's drive, you know, around the country when I'm flying
44:38
on all that stuff, you know, there's, there's the rate comfort version, you know, like in
44:43
your best new New Zealand accent, you say, do you believe there's an afterlife or what
44:46
happens to the afterlife?
44:47
But, you know, you could ask questions, like I've had some ardent atheists and they'll,
44:51
and then you'll just ask the question, well, so you believe in the scientific and possibility
44:54
that everything came from nothing and you're just quiet and typically so are they.
45:00
And there's kind of some questions, you know, I haven't vetted this one, but have you guys
45:04
heard recently about the discovery of the oceans below the crest, bigger than all the
45:10
oceans combined and all that how that ties to, to Noah, and the flood bursting from the
45:15
deep, which doesn't make any sense, you know, to most people and I haven't invested it,
45:18
but that'd be an example of a rock, right?
45:21
And then you can kind of start to tie that to how do you get back to this.
45:25
And so what I would say to that, even back to, to Matt's point in describing the gospel,
45:31
whenever I did those, well, I guess whenever I preached at Luzburg prison in Pennsylvania,
45:38
I felt less, I felt more weight because of the importance of what I was doing there,
45:44
but I felt less pressure.
45:45
If that's any, any, maybe that doesn't make sense.
45:48
Maybe I'll get.
45:49
No, I think that's perfect.
45:50
So whenever I give speeches, right, I feel weight and pressure because I don't want to
45:55
look like an idiot and it's like, I need to seem really, really smart and for these people
45:58
to be like, yeah, this Kyle guy, like let's, let's book him again.
46:02
But when I was at that, that prison, it was like, all right, words are coming out of my
46:06
face.
46:07
I have a generalized idea of where this is going, but God, this is up to you.
46:11
Like if these men accept you, like the, this is on you, you're going to reveal yourself
46:15
to them.
46:16
They're going to have to respond to it, but you're going to reveal yourself to them.
46:18
And I even said in the times that I prayed with those men and for those men, man, I didn't
46:22
know the next word that was coming.
46:23
I just didn't.
46:24
I felt like Kamala Harris, like I just had no idea the next word that was going to come
46:27
out of my mouth.
46:28
So I was just like this living predictive text mechanism, but he was tied to the Holy Spirit.
46:32
Think about the depth of depravity there though, even by world standards, they are not good
46:36
people.
46:37
I think it's got to be so much easier to preach the gospel to a group of people, a group
46:42
of murderers, a group of people who are in prison.
46:46
And by whatever metric you want to judge by there, they are considered bad people.
46:50
It's much harder to come into privileged Edmund and preach the gospel to people who do good
46:58
things.
46:59
They're all bugged up.
47:00
Yeah.
47:01
Yeah.
47:02
They got the money.
47:03
They got the clothes.
47:04
I literally just gave a guy 20 bucks.
47:05
What do you mean?
47:06
I'm a bad person.
47:07
Yeah.
47:08
It's a much harder to preach there.
47:09
I do like how Eric turned into a guy from Brooklyn there, second, it got the money and
47:13
I got the clothes.
47:14
Hey.
47:15
Oh, like that kind of thing.
47:16
So that was for those of you not from Edmund, that's that's a really good Edmund accent.
47:20
Yeah.
47:21
We got a lot of Guido's walking around.
47:22
Edmund, if you guys aren't fully familiar, hey, guys, let's let's let's come back to
47:25
I'd like to go into verses 14, 15 and 16.
47:28
Matt, if you would read a 14 through 16, please, you got it more over from the time that I was
47:33
appointed to be their governor in the land of Judah from the 20th year to the 20 or to
47:39
the 32nd year of art as Xerxes, the king, 12 years, either I nor my brothers ate the
47:44
food allowance of the governor, the former governors who were before me laid heavy burdens
47:49
on the people and took from them for their daily ration, 40 shackles of silver, even their
47:56
servants lorded it over the people, but I did not do so because of the fear of God.
48:02
I also per persevered in the work on this wall and we acquired no land and all my servants
48:10
were gathered for the work.
48:11
Sorry, I was reading through my microphone and I just didn't move my Bible.
48:15
So I was I'm in the middle of eight sentence and I would like to keep talking.
48:22
So there's a lot here that's kind of packed in, you know, neither I nor my brothers ate
48:26
the food allowance of the governor.
48:28
There's a bunch of business books and, you know, that kind of talk about the leader and,
48:32
you know, kind of I last or take the stairs or yeah, those types of things.
48:36
And then also when it says I did not do so because or sorry, taking the the rations.
48:43
But I also he didn't do these things because of fear of the Lord.
48:47
That's kind of where he didn't do it because he read a business book and he's like good
48:51
business people don't do this.
48:52
I'm a Jim Collins fan and so I'm going to kind of go this direction.
48:55
But he also the important thing and this goes back to I think whenever you were talking
48:58
about the sheep gate and it was the high priest that were working.
49:01
It's like I also persevered in the work on the wall and we acquired no land and all my
49:05
servants were gathered there for the work.
49:07
So they weren't just overseeing the work.
49:10
They weren't just taking over land and building their personal wealth.
49:14
They were getting their hands dirty and we've all heard the stories now, but it bears repeating
49:19
when they see the senior pastor taking out the garbage.
49:23
When they see the CEO cleaning up the crumbs from the birthday party that were left over
49:29
when they're doing these things that are considered lowly and they don't think anyone's watching
49:33
them because some people do that and it's diabolical.
49:36
Like they're making sure that they set up the trash and they're like bang in the trash
49:40
kid around like, oh man, this trash is really busy.
49:44
I'm just going to toss it over my shoulder, walk out with a smile on my face.
49:48
Some people do it that way.
49:49
But the people that actually mean it, the people of real character, they're doing it
49:52
because it's just something that needs to be done.
49:54
Now there will be business teachers that are like, you know, give yourself an hourly rate
49:58
and don't do any work that is below that hourly rate.
50:01
So if returning that that Amazon package is going to take you an hour of your time and
50:05
that's going to cost you 50 bucks and you're worth a hundred bucks an hour, throw that thing
50:08
in the garbage like again, we can get off into the weeds on that kind of thing.
50:12
But there's a lot of wisdom there in versus 1415 16.
50:16
I heard the CEO of Toyota once said, I could be getting the strong, but I'm pretty sure
50:20
it's right.
50:21
The only questions that he remembers he's been asked in some of these really big conferences
50:24
came from a guy in the audience and he said, when you go home, do you take out the trash?
50:29
That was a question.
50:32
And this CEO of Toyota, which is one of the most efficiently run companies out there,
50:35
great processes.
50:37
That's what he remembered.
50:38
And that was just so indicative.
50:39
This guy was trying to understand as an employee how their leadership was thinking and what
50:44
kind of leadership they had.
50:46
So I thought it was really wise.
50:47
The other thing I thought about is Paul is the same, you know, when he's when he's talking
50:52
with everybody, he's saying, I was there, I was working beside you.
50:55
There's nothing that you can hold against me.
50:56
I wasn't trying to take advantage of you.
50:58
It has kind of a consistent theme when you're if you're asking people to do hard things,
51:02
you yourself need to be doing them.
51:03
So from time to time, I'm invited in.
51:05
There's a couple of good buddies of mine that are wrestling coaches here at local high schools.
51:09
And when they start getting a little bit sluggish at some point in the season, they'll bring
51:13
me in and I'll go basically beat up their kids for, you know, two hours.
51:17
But the thing that's interesting is every part of the exercise that I do, which is brutal,
51:22
like I'm not there to make them have fun.
51:23
I'm there to kill them.
51:25
Like it's a brutal exercise and it workout routine.
51:28
I do every single rep.
51:29
And so does their coach.
51:30
Yeah.
51:31
And so they're looking at these 30 year old men, you know, in their mid thirties and they're
51:34
like, God, these men are so old and like they were born in the 1900s.
51:38
What are the hour?
51:39
These guys even surviving, but we're doing everything they're doing, but at an intensity
51:43
level that's kind of beyond them.
51:45
It's just like, Oh my gosh.
51:47
And like, but that's the thing is like, that's almost like an apology or apology of that.
51:52
Which by the way, no one says tomato, like nobody.
51:55
So that's not like a tomato, tomato, potato, potato.
51:57
No one says potato.
51:58
Okay.
51:59
Okay.
52:00
Just that's that's a little sidebar to at risk of sounding like I'm being a dead horse.
52:05
How does Nehemiah know that he should be treating that he should not be doing these things?
52:10
It all goes back to the fear of God.
52:12
Yeah.
52:13
You know, to your point about pastors missing the boat on some things, I think a lot of
52:18
pastors will that when they when they talk about Jesus being asked about the greatest
52:22
commandment, it is, it is always the modern past, not always, but a lot of modern pastors
52:29
will answer that with love your neighbor as yourself.
52:33
But we only know how to do that because of the first commandment.
52:38
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
52:42
And if it all hinges on that, it's not the other way around.
52:46
It's love God and then the people come.
52:49
And that's how all of those laws are written.
52:51
It's the love of the of the Lord.
52:54
Then in turn, it's the love of people.
52:57
And I think we as a modern church miss that something.
53:01
It's not just loving people because if without fear of the Lord, without love of God, we
53:06
don't even know how to do that, not biblically, not, not rightly.
53:09
Yeah, we don't have a foundation by which to even base our actions, but let's go and
53:13
round out Nehemiah five.
53:15
So Zach, if you wouldn't mind read 17, 18 and 19, please.
53:19
More ever there were at my table 150 men, Jews and officials, besides those who came to us
53:26
from the nations that were around us.
53:28
Now what was now what was prepared at my expense for each day was one ox and six choice sheep
53:35
and birds and every 10 days, all kinds of wine and abundance.
53:39
But for all this, I did not demand the food allowance of the governor because the service
53:44
was too heavy on this people.
53:47
Remember for my good, oh my God, all that I have done for this people.
53:53
And so I think this is an important thing here.
53:56
I think this opens us up to a discussion about good works because, you know, when you get
54:00
into the discussion, it's like, okay, how do we talk about fruit?
54:03
How do we talk about good works and all those types of things?
54:06
This is another example of Nehemiah not being above the people that he's serving with.
54:10
He doesn't want to live in comfort while his people suffer.
54:13
We've seen plenty of examples of this in modern modern military.
54:17
So even Vietnam, the GWOT, different things like that, where there were officers that
54:21
had the capability to kind of travel around and luxury and safety and all those different
54:25
things.
54:26
But they're like, no, I'm going to sleep with the grunts.
54:27
No, I'm going to be on the ground, those types of things.
54:29
And we all have a much deeper level of respect for those men just kind of implicitly just
54:35
because like that's, wow, that's awesome.
54:36
Like they, they could have got all these things, but they chose D last.
54:39
They chose to, to be uncomfortable just like with everybody else.
54:42
But then at the end, he's like, he says, remember, and it's not because God forgets, but he's
54:46
just like, Hey, just as a reminder, just throwing this out there for my good.
54:50
Oh my God.
54:51
All that I've done for this people, please remember all that I've done for these people.
54:55
But I still think that that's a good lesson for us that it's okay to say to God, like,
55:00
Hey, look at these things that I've done because there's a right ordering in my heart because
55:05
I'm doing this to honor you, not to gain points.
55:07
If that makes sense.
55:08
Yeah.
55:09
I mean, Paul did that too.
55:10
And you get almost, it kind of like, if you just read it, you're like, Oh man, it's kind
55:14
of being arrogant.
55:15
Look at him kind of, but he's making a defense of what he's, what he's done and why he's
55:19
done it.
55:20
And this heart behind it is not, he's not trying to like say, look at me.
55:23
He's just saying, look, this is, this is what was offered.
55:26
This is what was available.
55:27
But I did not take it.
55:28
I did not partake of this because of this because I was just thinking of like Uriah
55:33
when David called him back and said, well, come on in and you know, go eat, go be with
55:37
your wife or whatever.
55:38
And he's like, no, no, no, no.
55:40
I can't.
55:41
How can I do that when my men are out there fighting and he slept, you know, outside and
55:45
whatever.
55:46
But anyways, yeah, that was my point.
55:48
I think that's also, it's also a foreshadowing because Jesus says, whatever you do to the
55:52
least of these you do unto me, and I think getting down and washing his disciples feet,
55:59
that's, I mean, the perfect description and perfect picture of servant leadership.
56:05
And I think that's Nehemiah's just, yeah, just reminding God, hey, I'm serving my people
56:12
for you.
56:13
I think it's freeing too, in a way, like we talked about the Psalms earlier and you're
56:16
crying out and you're saying, oh, and I think the Bible's pretty clear that you should do
56:21
that.
56:22
I just hate saying this, right?
56:24
But safe space, it's a space that you can have a discussion about whatever.
56:28
And there are things that you do for God on this earth that nobody else knows about.
56:32
And I think that's your vent.
56:33
I think in modern culture, there's a lot of talk around therapy and different forms
56:38
of meditation and all that.
56:40
Well, it's pretty much built in here.
56:42
You can open up, have a discussion, and it's, it's free, free for all.
56:46
You say whatever you want.
56:47
And God's going to help.
56:48
I'll work through that.
56:49
I think that's great.
56:50
There are lessons there from Nehemiah 5, but we're going to have to leave it there, guys.
56:53
But come back next Sunday, where we're going to dig into Nehemiah 6.
56:56
So guys, make sure that you read that this week so that you'll be prepared for that discussion.
57:00
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