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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:58
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness, with content that
1:01
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:04
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys foraging spiritual resilience
1:07
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:11
us across from me.
1:12
We've got the OG, Eric Browning in the house, but then we've got a couple of guys making
1:15
their sophomore appearances on the Forging Table.
1:18
So we've got Derek Edwards and Robert Lewis-fellas.
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What's up?
1:22
How are you?
1:23
Good.
1:24
I'm good.
1:25
How are you?
1:26
It's going to happen.
1:27
Appreciate the invite back.
1:28
Well, you know, I didn't want it to happen, but here it is.
1:30
It's right here in front of us.
1:31
But you know, last time we set a couple of records with you guys on the first time that
1:34
we're on here.
1:35
So the only person to have a more soul tree voice on this podcast is Robert Lewis over
1:40
here.
1:41
So the Brown belt himself.
1:42
So very good.
1:43
No pressure.
1:44
Don't make it deeper than it has to be.
1:45
Like don't make it awkward.
1:46
And then also a record for the least amount of words used in an episode, you have the top
1:51
four spots, Derek.
1:52
I'm sure I do.
1:53
The least amount of words used.
1:55
Do you own one, two, three and four?
1:56
Yes.
1:57
Okay.
1:58
That's amazing.
1:59
Got to get them all.
2:00
You have the entire podium and the person I wish as they were on it.
2:02
You've got the entire thing right there from the beginning.
2:03
So I am.
2:04
So what's funny about this is I couldn't think of a good example.
2:07
So this could absolutely crash and burn.
2:09
No pun intended.
2:10
He has a pilot, ladies and gentlemen.
2:11
But the sophomore slump, since this is y'all's second appearance, have y'all heard of the
2:16
sophomore slump?
2:17
No.
2:18
Okay.
2:19
It's typically in the context of like, okay, so you're a musical group.
2:25
And your first album is a banger and then your second album is just trash because it's
2:28
like crap.
2:29
We gave all our effort to the first one and then we just had to put another one out there
2:32
or maybe the first movie in a two part, whatever, like was just absolute fire, but then the
2:37
second one was trash.
2:39
And literally as I was talking through this, I'm like, surely I'm going to come up with
2:41
an example.
2:42
Definitely didn't happen.
2:43
So somebody saved me.
2:45
What is a good example of a sophomore slump so that we can have something to compare y'all's
2:48
performances to.
2:49
Oh, gosh.
2:50
Goodness.
2:51
Give it to me.
2:52
Major R being literally has its own filter on the angel because it was so, his character
2:58
was so terrible.
2:59
Is that Star Wars or Star Trek?
3:01
Star Wars.
3:02
Sorry, guys.
3:03
But he was only in one movie.
3:04
Oh, I don't really know.
3:05
I don't really know.
3:06
Who wait.
3:07
So he was in the second film of something?
3:08
Yeah, I can't even remember.
3:09
It's like I literally put a [inaudible] to the recesses of my brain.
3:12
Yeah.
3:13
Okay.
3:14
It wasn't a sophomore deal.
3:15
He was only in one movie.
3:16
And I think they killed him off that, right?
3:17
Maybe he came back.
3:18
No, he was there.
3:19
He was there.
3:20
Okay.
3:21
All the way through.
3:22
That happened.
3:23
There's got to be a good one.
3:25
There's got to be an obvious one that literally people are screaming at us in their cars or
3:28
at the gym right now.
3:29
I mean, I think that's the future should have just been back to the future.
3:32
And then we're like four or five of them.
3:34
And I didn't think they got much better.
3:35
Yeah.
3:36
Mask.
3:37
Maybe mask to Jim Curie.
3:38
Mask to didn't know that was a thing.
3:39
Yeah.
3:40
Okay.
3:41
Yeah.
3:42
That was bad.
3:43
Um, now I've heard that they are making a sequel to Gladiator.
3:46
Now, I take, I'm almost offended at even the thought because to me.
3:52
Even though I know all the mistakes with that movie, that's a perfect movie to me.
3:55
That's like the one that I like, I hold that above every other movie.
3:58
And like really Scott, I'm not sure he's released another good movie since then.
4:02
And that was like 20 some years ago.
4:04
So that one shouldn't happen.
4:05
But any others before we mercilessly or mercifully get off of the subject of the sophomore slump,
4:10
I think we're going to break the sophomore slump is the main thing I want to leave with.
4:13
I certainly hope so.
4:14
Now the way that we're not going to break that is if you continue not talking directly
4:17
into the mic like last time, I know, because if you're all around it, see if my head's
4:21
over here and around there, you see how it doesn't sound good?
4:24
Okay.
4:25
That's okay.
4:26
I'm not going to give you as much crap as we give the horn, but the horn is not here
4:27
to, uh, to defend himself.
4:29
So that's how we're going to make it go.
4:31
Um, here's the thing with Matthew 23.
4:33
I want to kind of put something in the listeners heads, but also in you guys's heads.
4:37
Well, we'll, we'll put it this way.
4:39
When y'all were growing up, because I think all of us have given our background of, you
4:42
know, kind of where we were in terms of church or in terms of, you know, Christianity and
4:46
all that, what were your thoughts growing up about Jesus?
4:51
His personality, how he interacted with people, like just in general, what did you grow up
4:56
thinking about this Jesus guy described in the gospels?
5:00
There's a lot of compassion, a lot of picking up kids, you know, it was the quintessential
5:05
what you see in Sunday school of just the soft side of Jesus that's sitting down and,
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you know, consoling the woman at the well, it would probably that would be the majority
5:15
of how I saw Jesus, you know, God was very much fire and brimstone.
5:19
That was the, that was the image that was painted.
5:21
But Jesus was always the softer side.
5:23
Right.
5:24
Yeah.
5:25
I'm totally with you.
5:26
That's exactly right.
5:27
I was sitting there going, what, what did I think about him?
5:29
But I, I remember those paintings of him with, you know, and of Carl said, he's a flowy
5:34
hair and so, and the kids and all that stuff.
5:36
And I did.
5:37
I totally thought God was the one holding on to the, the electric, you know, the lightning
5:41
rod or whatever.
5:42
It was just going to strike me down.
5:44
So, you know, what, what, what was the fact that the amount of blush that they applied
5:50
to Jesus in every picture in Sunday school, they just ended the makeup that they applied
5:55
was always just stellar across the board.
5:57
It was the same.
5:58
Yeah.
5:59
I mean, he literally, I always say he looked like a Danish model, like if you like gave
6:03
him like, what is that Rouge?
6:04
If you roughed his, his cheeks, that's kind of how it go.
6:07
What do we have?
6:08
Do we have?
6:09
Do you want some Rouge?
6:10
Are we going to Rouge?
6:11
I was like, is there actually a Danish model that they modeled Jesus after?
6:16
I bet you I can find.
6:17
I bet there is.
6:18
Because I don't think Danish people look super middle Eastern, but you know, I haven't been
6:21
around a ton of them.
6:22
But what do you think?
6:23
Yeah.
6:24
Same.
6:25
Typical Sunday school.
6:26
Soft.
6:27
Not Matthew 23.
6:28
Well, okay.
6:29
Yeah.
6:30
And there's our segue because that's when you think about how you think about Jesus growing
6:34
up because I was the same having not grown up in church.
6:35
I saw the depictions of him and artwork in, you know, in TV specials and stuff like that.
6:41
And so it was always kind of that very compassionate guy who ended up dying in the end and never
6:45
really made sense to me.
6:46
And so he died in someone else's plays, but don't firefighters do that sometimes and don't
6:49
guys like in the military die so that people in their country don't have to die.
6:52
Like, it didn't really make sense to me as a kid until, you know, I absolutely started
6:55
to understand the gospel for myself.
6:57
So we're going to dig right into Matthew 23 here.
6:59
So we're going to read verses one through 12.
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Robert, if you will hit one through 12 for us, please.
7:04
Got it.
7:05
And Jesus said to the crowds and his disciples, the scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses's
7:09
seat.
7:10
So do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do for they preach, but
7:15
they do not practice.
7:16
They tie up heavy burdens hard to bear and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves
7:21
are not willing to move them with their finger.
7:24
They do all their deeds to be seen by others, for they make their phylacteries broad and
7:29
their fringes long.
7:31
And they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings
7:35
in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
7:39
But you are not called to be rabbi, where you have one teacher and you are all brothers
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and call no man, your father on earth, or you have one father who is in heaven, neither
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be called instructors, or you have one instructors, the Christ, the greatest among you shall be
7:54
your servant, whoever exalts himself will be humbled and wherever humbles himself will
7:58
be exalted.
7:59
Certainly get back to verse 12, but I mean, I guess you could say the entirety of verses
8:03
one through 12 is about humility.
8:05
It's about being humble and an interesting thing about that is, you know, as we talked
8:09
about closing out 2023, we came into 2024 with a ton of momentum.
8:14
And so it would have been real easy to start getting a little cocky, I started thinking
8:18
like, Hey, we did this, you know, it was, you know, it was Mike funny, fancy words that
8:23
I use on this particular interview, or there was this perfect Instagram post that hit the
8:27
algorithm just right in the fields and it just worked out well.
8:30
But that's been the constant refrain this year for me is just humility, humility is
8:34
walking through the church lobby this morning.
8:36
And a couple of guys introduced themselves in my church and my town as fans of the show,
8:41
and it's like, Oh, you know, you could really be tempted to just start walking around the
8:44
church like, Hey, I'm somebody, right?
8:46
I'm I'm the guy that does the thing, you know, you own these different karate studios throughout
8:50
the years.
8:51
And now you want to jujitsu Academy.
8:52
So you know, a lot of people that train with you or that their parents know that they train
8:55
with you or their kids or something like that.
8:57
And so you can start to think of yourself as a little bit self important.
9:00
And so that was one thing that just stood out to me with these first 12 verses is just
9:04
a reminder that Jesus is rebuking these turds and being like, just, and it's all about humility.
9:10
Yeah, I was just, you know, many of us have titles, right?
9:15
I mean, I've got MPT after my name and then OCS and CCI and that sounds really, really
9:21
cool to have those designations.
9:24
But and I don't know that there's anything wrong with that, but it it looks like to me
9:27
like when I read these verses, it's the love of being called by those, the love of the title
9:35
and people looking at you as someone that's important or more important than you actually
9:39
are.
9:40
And you see that a lot, right?
9:41
I mean, you see how many people do we know of that, you know, they're they're known by
9:45
as when they introduce themselves as as a doctor or whatever that is.
9:48
And there's nothing necessarily wrong about it.
9:50
But whenever they take on that identity and that's their worth in a conversation, that's
9:53
their worth and the circle that they have, they feel like their value is placed upon
9:57
what they've earned in the in the past.
9:59
And I think it's just incredible for anytime we're reading the scripture, you know, Kyle,
10:03
where you're coming from as you immediately apply it over to yourself, you know, you immediately
10:07
are looking back through the lens of like, what is God trying to speak to me in this and
10:11
how can I be anchored and be humble in the midst of reading this in the moment?
10:14
Well, and one of the best things that you could do is I love the example of actually what
10:17
Derek does is Derek doesn't tell anyone.
10:19
He's a pilot.
10:20
He just literally wears aviators all the time.
10:22
And so people don't even don't even ask like he wouldn't wear them today for whatever reason,
10:25
but that keeps you humble, right?
10:27
You just don't have to talk about yourself.
10:28
I just shave the mustache at least.
10:30
Right.
10:31
That was it was very top gun there for a little bit like yeah, that mustache going for a while.
10:35
One thing with that first section of verses as well is versus three and four, I literally
10:40
wrote don't be this person.
10:41
So verse three and four, it's like, you know, they basically preach, but don't practice.
10:46
They put these these heavy burdens on other people.
10:48
And I guess the way I thought of it is it's the people that are like do as I say, not
10:51
as I do.
10:52
Now, if you're a dad that, you know, has maybe your body's a little bit broken down.
10:58
Maybe you've had some sort of like spine or hip ailment or something like that.
11:01
And you used to be able to like squat a whole lot, but now you can't squat that amount.
11:05
And you're trying to like describe perfect squat form to your, you know, 16 year old
11:08
son.
11:09
I promise I'm not describing you.
11:10
You really are.
11:11
Like this is saying it.
11:12
I was like, this is, you know, kind of like Robert, but it's like, you know, in that
11:16
moment it would be appropriate to say son, do as I say, not as I do like, but most
11:21
dads aren't in that place.
11:23
Right.
11:24
And in Matthew 24, we're going to talk a little bit about men being prepared or not for the
11:28
fight that's forthcoming.
11:29
But that was one thing I just thought about is like it, I just kept thinking about the
11:32
overbearing father that would put all this pressure on their kid to do things that they
11:36
themselves never did and couldn't do like, and how many dads are living vicariously through
11:42
their children, you know, they're driving and pushing them to something that they themselves
11:45
have never accomplished.
11:46
And they, I think they can do it under the guise of wanting their kids to succeed, but
11:50
how many of them are just looking for the accolades and the writing off of the accolades
11:54
and the achievements of their, of their children.
11:56
Yeah.
11:57
There's not many instances in the New Testament, but that I can, that I can recall, but I do
12:03
remember Paul saying, follow me as I follow Christ.
12:06
And I remember going, man, such a simple verse, but what like to live up to that?
12:11
Yeah.
12:12
That's, that's a big deal.
12:14
My additional thought on that was it seems in stark contrast to what Jesus said in Matthew
12:19
11 28 through 30 said, my yoke is easing my burden is light.
12:24
And here we see the exact opposite of these teachers and, and, and law givers, putting
12:30
burdens on people.
12:31
One another thing to that point is, I remember, uh, Pastor Joey first shout out of the, the
12:35
forging table and it's hopefully not an I'm sorry, Joby, but the whenever Satan is described
12:40
in Ezekiel, he's described as being this worship leader in the way that Joby describes it as
12:45
at some point, Satan, Lucifer, decided he didn't want to be looked to and wanted to
12:49
be looked, or he didn't want to be looked through.
12:52
He wanted to be looked to.
12:53
And so we can see the same thing here is like a lot of people, they don't want to reflect
12:58
off of themselves to Christ.
13:00
And so that's one thing that as I am reading the scripture, I'm trying to understand where,
13:04
where is this in the story of the gospel?
13:06
Like where is this, you know, random Old Testament passage houses get us to, you know, Jesus Christ,
13:11
but also it's like, how can I better reflect what's being said here?
13:15
So people don't look to me, but look through me.
13:17
Or, you know, their gaze bounces off of me and to back to the father.
13:21
And so that's just, you know, kind of something that I try to do for myself as we work through
13:25
scripture.
13:26
Derek, if you wouldn't mind hitting versus 13 through 15 and yes, in most Bibles, verse
13:31
14 is missing.
13:32
We don't have all time to get into that.
13:33
It's just a, you know, a scribal thing that people can quibble about, but 13 through 15,
13:37
please.
13:38
But what do you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for you shut the kingdom of heaven and the
13:44
people's faces, where you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
13:50
What do you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, where you travel across sea and land to make
13:55
a single proselyte?
13:56
And when he comes to, when he comes to proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell
14:02
as yourselves.
14:04
So this is when we get into the seven woes.
14:05
These are the first two woes.
14:07
And I forget which commentary I was looking at, but they've kind of named the woes.
14:11
So in this section here, we have the first woe, which is, you know, shut the door in
14:14
the second woe, which is in trapped converts.
14:17
But I just got to say the word brutal came to mind as I was reading verse 13, where it
14:21
said, for you shut the kingdom of heaven and people's faces, you know, like for, for a
14:27
pious religious elite, I can't imagine a more forceful, aggressive thing to say to them to
14:36
where it's like, look, you're not shepherding anybody through the door.
14:39
You are slamming the door in their faces and I'm reading something into the scripture that's
14:43
not here.
14:44
So guys, bear with me.
14:45
It's almost like, Hey, you're doing this and you like it.
14:48
You enjoy the fact that people can't carry the yoke that you purport to carry.
14:52
So that that was a brutal, brutal scripture for me to read.
14:55
And for every bit of 23 to be read letter, you know, I mean, every bit of this from the
14:59
beginning to the end is such a powerful depiction of the way in which Christ communicated.
15:04
I mean, obviously to the Pharisees, ripping them apart, but there was just so much wisdom
15:09
that was in this and he did not mince his words.
15:12
Yeah, I mean, only God is able to shut people out of the kingdom.
15:18
I noted there's like these guys were more interested in making the rules than bestowing
15:24
grace.
15:26
They looked at tradition as Trumping truth.
15:29
And yeah, it was it's a brutal statement.
15:32
I don't know that it gets any better as we go, but my goodness, you know, Jesus is letting
15:38
him have it.
15:39
Well, and then you see in verse where you can say something.
15:41
Yeah, I was going to say, I remember what commentary I saw it on, but obviously Jesus
15:47
is the way he's the door.
15:49
And I just think the Pharisees were surrounded and knew the law that's all they're focused
15:54
on.
15:55
They had no affection for Christ who is actually the door.
15:57
So they're shutting the door on, I mean, how do I say that?
16:01
Shutting the door on the door.
16:02
Yeah.
16:03
But it's like it's like they're not even giving you access to even get a chance to go through
16:08
the door that matters.
16:09
Yeah.
16:10
It's like they're slamming a separate door in front of them entirely.
16:12
And then at the end of there, where he's talking about calling them, you know, they're going
16:15
to make them twice as much a child of hell as yourself.
16:18
Again, a brutal way to talk to these people who no one talks to these people this way.
16:23
Like it's just not something that was done in this culture, but if you did, yeah, and
16:27
that's that's the thing is he's basically saying, look, you're causing these people
16:30
to be a, a follower of Pharisees and not Jesus, like you're wanting them to follow you and
16:38
look to you and see how cool you are.
16:41
And that's, you know, we get into a, you know, I don't know if we really have time to dig
16:44
into this, but when you see these people that love the fact that there's a cult of personality
16:48
at their church.
16:50
And so they've created this brand around them or around their style of worship music
16:54
or around their books that they sell or around their this or their, their YouTube channel
16:59
or their, whatever. And it's like these people love the fact that the people are looking
17:02
to them. And it's just like, gosh, it's just dripping in just this arrogance about their,
17:11
I guess their place in the order of how people come to salvation. And again, I don't really
17:15
care if you wear, you know, fancy sneakers or a nice suit or any of that type of stuff
17:18
or live in a nice house. It's like, man, these people, it seems like they want everyone to
17:22
look at them.
17:24
But in this moment, Jesus is like, all right, we're going to look at you. And by the way,
17:27
I'm going to tell you what you actually are just in the most aggressive way possible.
17:31
Yeah. And on a side note, you know, I see it says for you travel across the sea and land
17:34
to make a single proselyte or proselyte, the, I just immediately thought like, man, the
17:40
Mormon church is so good at test, you know, testifying of their, of their beliefs, right?
17:49
And I mean, they, they got it down. And I just sat there and I was like, and I know this
17:53
is all set in a negative context, but I just had me kind of pause for a second. I was like,
17:57
well, am I committed at any level close to what a Mormon would be in spreading the gospel,
18:04
you know, to the world around me?
18:06
So I mean, even this is sounds funny, but just the dedication to where would they wear
18:10
and ride around all bikes? Like and not care if anybody thinks that that's weird. Like that
18:16
they see that as like, Hey, this is part of the course, like, I got to get my own plan
18:19
at someday. And so this is the way I'm going to be able to do that. And so like, that isn't
18:23
an interesting thing. Whereas us as American Christians, we're like, wait, this is going
18:25
to make me mildly uncomfortable. Hmm. I'm going to have to pray about that. It's like,
18:30
Oh, okay. Well, it's just, I mean, when, and then you hear these stories of these people
18:35
that are going literally to the edges of the earth to take the gospel or a translation of
18:38
the gospel of somebody.
18:39
I think it's one of the things about the culture that they've created is so singular focused
18:44
that despite knowing that they're going to get ridiculed for what they wear or how they
18:48
ride or whatever they do or the two years that they spend after they get to the high
18:51
school. You know, I mean, they've created such a unified approach towards and preparing
18:57
for their kids to be able to go out and launch, knowing that that oppression is going to happen.
19:01
And then it's a, it's a stark look at like as the culture within the Christian church,
19:06
how we are so divided in so many ways where we're not coming along and we're not saying
19:11
the same thing. There isn't one voice that's mentoring and discipling our kids to know
19:16
how to be able to evangelize, how to mature the saved, how to glorify God in everything
19:20
that you do, knowing that there's going to be oppression that comes when you stand for
19:24
what is right. And so, yeah, I think they are so effective just because they have that
19:28
one voice that really does a great job of it. In some way, just brainwashing in some ways
19:36
they're, they're viewed towards what is right. One other word. And then brainwash is catechize
19:41
or disciple. Yeah. And so again, I want to really hit this in 24 in Matthew 24, but it's
19:48
like so many men are ill prepared to even take care of their own stuff, right? You know,
19:55
here recently Doug Wilson was on the show talking about his book Future Men. And it's
19:58
like part of the reason why men aren't raising young men to be men is because they aren't
20:02
men themselves. And it's like they're, they're not prepared. So there's not even a, like an
20:07
attitude in their house of pointing in a particular direction where it could coalesce in some sort
20:12
of a goal that's set forth by some higher, you know, entity, right? So your, your house
20:17
is even set up in a way that allows for you to focus on God because you're so navel gazing
20:21
as you're worried about your job and worried about all this other stuff. But, you know,
20:24
we could, we could go even further without, did you have one more thing on that? Yeah.
20:28
Yeah. It reminded me of, and I've probably shared this before, but my remember my grandfather
20:34
grandmother came to visit us when we lived in North Carolina and on the way from Texas
20:38
to North Carolina, they stopped at a couple of different places. But one of the places
20:42
that they had planned on stopping that was Dolly World. And so yep. And, and so when they,
20:50
when they got there, they were like, Oh, I'll show strip me whatever they are. My grandfather
20:54
was so proud. He's like, and we, we stopped at Dolly World and, or actually he didn't say
20:58
they said we went to Dolly World. As soon as he said that my grandmother just elbowed him
21:02
and it was like, no, we didn't. We literally went to the parking lot, took a picture and
21:08
then left like that's not going to Dolly World. And the point is, is that as believers, it
21:17
made me one thing to help your son or daughter towards conversion. But that literally, if
21:22
that's where you leave it, like you miss the boat and the whole idea of discipleship, you
21:26
know, we need to be being that Paul that says, following me as I follow Christ and in leading
21:34
the way and being a pay setter and not just thinking that, okay, I've got them safe. They're
21:39
going to heaven now, but not helping them be fruitful in life, you know, and honestly,
21:43
just to do it, I don't know, a plug in some way, you've done such a great job in the way
21:48
in which you've put together your ministry and your, the way in which you've, you know,
21:53
created this strong structure through sandstone on being able to disciple your children and
21:57
whatnot. That it would just, this is such a perfect opportunity to be able to kind of
22:02
talk a little bit. Can you kind of go into just like a one minute recap? Is that all right?
22:06
Let's get it. Before you forget, say, say the website so people can check more of this
22:10
out later. I know we got to stay on track. No, no, but, but, and then give us the elevator
22:13
to be able to know what we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sandstone dot us with
22:18
the two instead of the to. I mean, we, we help fathers raise future men. I mean, that, that's
22:25
as simply as, as you can put it. And so the idea is that we don't want there to be any
22:29
question mark as to what a man is and how a boy becomes a man. And so we set out to get,
22:38
we get guys in the wilderness where there's no distractions and we promote, promote opportunities
22:42
for dads to bond in the wilderness and doing, doing things that are mainly, but then we
22:47
have, we set the stage also for ceremony and rites of passage so that as a boy is getting
22:52
older, father can communicate expectations of this is where we were. You're crossing
22:57
over a threshold. You're never coming back. You're going moving forward and this is what
23:01
it looks like. And this is what's expected of you. And so when they become a man, you
23:06
know, 18, whenever, whenever that's that period is designated, they should be able to walk
23:11
into that going, this is, this is who I am in Christ. This is who, how Christ is my archetypal,
23:18
you know, head of how, how I should live. And I've had someone walk me to this point so
23:24
that I can, can you continue to walk forward and do the same for my kids? Yeah. And I think
23:27
it's important to point out, I get asked a lot about, Hey, Kyle, what about my son or
23:31
Hey, I'm 16. Like, what do you have to say to me? And it's like, I'm very unapologetically
23:36
only appealing to men. Like, so when women are like, why don't you talk about this? I was
23:39
like, well, because that's a woman's issue. And this is a man's podcast. It's there in
23:42
the title, like, you know, just kind of is what it is, you serve the audience that you
23:45
serve. If you try to serve everybody, you end up serving no one. And so again, sand2stone.us.
23:50
That's a two instead of T O sand2stone.us. So you can check out some of that content there.
23:54
Um, one real quick before I forget also, a lot of guys this year are really trying to
23:58
take their Bible study a little bit deeper. Maybe you've created your own forging table
24:01
or something like that. Well, we are partnered with Logos Bible software. So there is not
24:05
a stronger, more powerful Bible software on the planet than Logos. And so there is a link
24:10
in our show notes. So if you don't even know what that is, go to that link and kind of get
24:12
an idea. But literally as deep as you want to go into scripture and whatever language,
24:17
whatever translation, whatever, uh, you know, different reference points and different things,
24:23
you can get that and you, you can literally spend the rest of your year breaking down
24:27
one singular scripture using the Logos software. So one to give them a shout out as well. That
24:32
is in the show notes. So, uh, who hasn't read yet Browning? If you, if you will hit versus 16 through
24:37
22, we're going to hit, uh, another one of the woes or hit in the third, whoa, blinding oaths.
24:42
Got it. Whoa, do you blind guys who say if anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing.
24:47
But if anyone swears by the goal of the temple, he is bound by his oath. You blind fools for
24:53
which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred. And if you say if anyone
24:58
swears by the altered is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is
25:03
bound by his oath. You blind men for which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift
25:08
sacred. So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it and whoever swears by
25:14
the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it and whoever swears by heaven swears by the
25:19
throne of God and by him who sits upon it. The whole thing about this one, again, this is the third
25:24
of the woes. Again, I'm just struck by the aggressive language. And yes, I'm going to keep
25:29
beating that dead horse as we go through all these woes. Because you have to remember who he's
25:34
talking to. Like these are the elite of the elite. And so in our modern day, we kind of love it when
25:39
some random no name journalist or some, you know, Jack wagon on Twitter, like tries to, you know,
25:44
own a US Senator or, you know, the White House press secretary and it's like, Oh, this person
25:49
got dunked on or Ben Shapiro owns a lib, like, and we're kind of used to these types of things.
25:53
This was not a common occurrence in that culture. You never spoke with that level of disrespect
25:58
to these people. And again, he's doing this in a righteous way, because some people read this,
26:03
be like, great, I'm gonna be a [inaudible] to everybody. And it's like, no, no, no, that's not that's not
26:07
the point of this. It's like, he had righteous indignation and he dressed them down. And he just
26:12
keeps it going. And I think as a culture in Christian's conservative circles, at least, I think we've
26:17
silenced ourselves to passivity a little bit. We've gotten to the point to where how do we
26:21
a stand for what is right? We're unapologetic in what is right. We can be sympathetic to people
26:26
that don't necessarily agree with us, but unapologetic in what we know to be true and communicate that
26:32
in a way with humility, but also strength in the midst of it. Absolutely. One of the things that
26:38
I'd put on there is their sacred and holy and eternal are worth far more than the riches of men.
26:43
And I think it's so easy to fall into that trap of possessions and the worth of our possessions
26:51
taking all of our time, taking all of our focus, all of our effort, all of our drive and our value
26:55
goes into what we have versus taking the time to be able to develop personally our relationship
27:01
with the Lord to have accountability with other men, to be able to evangelize, you know, to those
27:06
other things that God has clearly waited the eternal so much more than the temporary.
27:11
And I do think he's he's very harsh, but I don't think it's without some level of compassion and
27:16
call to repentance. I mean, I think if they had just turned around and been like, you're right,
27:21
you're right. Then that would have been very acceptable. He wasn't trying to like drop a bomb
27:25
on him and leave him just completely destroyed, but he was trying to pierce them to the to the to the
27:29
heart. Well, to a degree, it is dropping a bomb, but it's to get rid of the stuff that's worthless.
27:35
So when I go and speak live places, I make sure that the people booking me know like, hey, my style
27:40
is burn it down and walk away. And if that ever strikes him as odd, I'm like, well, do I live in
27:46
wherever'sville, Tennessee? Like, well, no, you live in Oklahoma, I'm like, correct. So whenever I
27:50
come in and speak, I leave, I get in a cargo, the airport, then I fly home, and then I stay there.
27:56
And so my style is going to be to burn off as much of the useless nonsense that's hanging off
28:01
these dudes or hanging off this ministry or hanging off this church. And then y'all need to have a
28:05
plan for the ashes. Y'all need to have a plan for what's left because the point is not to blow
28:09
them completely out. It's a blow off the stuff that's that's not useful. That's not useful for
28:13
the body. And so I think that's why he's being so aggressive here. If I were to, you know, impute
28:19
a particular motive to Jesus here to where it's like, this is what is necessary. And so there are
28:24
times in our lives where we need to communicate to a child or a coworker or someone that we're,
28:30
you know, sharing the gospel with or someone that we care for. And we can't just always do it in this
28:34
very weak and sympathetic way and empathetic way. Sometimes you literally just have to rip these
28:39
people a new one because again, he's not reading this deadpan. I make this point all the time.
28:44
Well, to you, blind guides who say if anyone swears by the temple, it is not is that how you
28:49
think he said it? Like guys, literally put yourself there. Is that how you think he said this? Because
28:54
again, you have to look at how did they respond to what he was saying? Because again, we all know
28:58
there's the words you use and there's the tone that you use our wives tend to remind us of that.
29:02
And so that's that's a very important thing here. Robert, if you'll keep the aggression going and
29:07
read in the fourth woe. So that's 23 and 24 woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for you
29:14
tithe mint and dill and cumin and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy
29:20
and faithfulness. These you ought to have done without neglecting the others, you blind guides
29:26
straining out a net and swallowing a camel. So if you're a follower of the chosen, they depicted
29:32
this in season four, this exact section here. And the entire point is literally neglecting the
29:39
weightier matters of the law. And or I guess neglecting the weightier matters so that you
29:45
can check off the parts of the law that you're good at. And so I was talking about this, like
29:49
everyone's got their varsity sin that they don't struggle with. And so it's like they have no
29:54
same sex attraction. And so they want to hit that one as hard as possible. Whereas other people,
29:59
they don't really get it. And in light of an email that I shared with you guys that, you know,
30:03
today, it's like, well, that's not always the best approach. But that that's an interesting
30:07
thing here to where it's like people love to focus on, okay, I'm going to literally take this
30:11
last little grain of cumin. And that's going to be the exact right amount according to the law.
30:16
But Jesus is like, guys, you're missing the entire point of the law. Like it is about,
30:22
you know, gaining an understanding of a God and being closer to him and him giving you
30:26
here's what you need to do in order to be righteous. And gosh, they're again, these people, they're
30:31
just missing the thread constantly. Yeah, it's almost as if there's this scale and it's the
30:35
they're insignificant sacrifice of their tithe weighted against the gross neglect of justice
30:42
law and faithfulness. I mean, that's just how in the world can you sit there and combine in way that
30:48
the insignificance of their their their seasonings is basically where their sacrifices are. You know,
30:54
they went without a little bit of salt on their food or something. Yeah, to me, it's still just
31:00
focusing on themselves. What makes them look best? What what drives up their popularity,
31:05
their power? And then kind of ignoring who their their followers are and leading them,
31:12
like we said earlier, leading straight to hell instead of to Christ. Yeah,
31:16
it's no one also there. It's ignoring who they're supposed to serve. Right. And so it's like,
31:21
imagine trying to serve someone and you do it in this way by being a stickler about the things
31:26
that don't matter. Like, and you know, all of us have kind of had the situation. Maybe it was your
31:30
dad, maybe it was a coach, maybe it was both or maybe it was something like that to where it's like,
31:34
they treat everything as a level 10 issue. And if everything's a level 10 issue,
31:38
then nothing's a level 10 issue. And then the kid or your people, they don't understand,
31:45
they don't understand how to gauge whether they should be focusing on this or that. And so like,
31:50
think about a Jiu Jitsu context, because you know, Robert and I both have coached you Jitsu
31:54
and trained Jiu Jitsu, you've done it at a much deeper level than I have. But if you're teaching
31:58
a kid about, you know, standing like proper foot placement during stand up, the consequences of
32:03
bad foot placement during the stand up process is way different than not fighting the hands when
32:08
you're getting rear naked choked. And so but if you treat standing up in the placement of your
32:13
foot compared to your opponent's foot as the same level, like they're going to be they're going to be
32:19
nervous from the exact moment they slap and bump because it's like, crap, this is as important as
32:23
fighting off a choke. And it's just simply not. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. How often do
32:29
we kind of, you know, become blinded? You know, we come so focused on those areas that we feel like
32:33
are the highest threat. And we kind of neglect so many of the other areas that need to be just as
32:38
much of an attention that we pay to. So absolutely, let's keep these woes going. Derek, if you will
32:42
read 25 through 28, please. Woda you scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for you clean the outside
32:50
of the cup and the plate but inside are full of greed and self indulgence. You blind Pharisee
32:57
first clean the inside of the cup. The plate and the outside also may be clean. Woda you scribes and
33:03
Pharisees hypocrites for you are like whitewashed tombs which outwardly appear beautiful but within
33:08
are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others
33:15
but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. I don't want to say it again but I have to. I have
33:23
to say it again because I wrote it all over my notes here. Aggressive, aggressive, everything is so
33:28
aggressive. This is so meany mean pants. Why is Jesus being so mean? Why isn't he just telling them,
33:34
you know, how nice they are and how how they're trying and how they were born this way and how
33:40
they can't help it and there's some sort of immutable characteristic that makes this their reality and
33:44
their truth is their truth. Like this is not like we don't get that. Like how did we go from this
33:50
to where we are today? It's just and this is one of the perfect things is because we are constantly
33:55
talking about people that are pretending to be righteous. They're virtue signaling. They're
33:59
signaling their own virtue but it's vapid. It's nonsense. It's not it has no form and no foundation
34:05
and I just again we were sitting here in this current moment in culture and it's like where did
34:10
we lose the threat? We lost a long time ago seemingly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing I'll just say it's
34:15
going to be kind of a just side note here when you say when it says for you clean the outside
34:19
of the cup and the plate being inside there full of greed and self-indulgence. Some of my favorite
34:24
teachers or people that I've learned underneath are the ones that are the most vulnerable and the
34:29
most open about where they've come from and how they've been redeemed through the sanctification
34:35
process. I get a little bit weary when I hear somebody speak and it's always it's either a TED
34:41
talk kind of deal or it's just it's always positive and there's nothing like personal because I think
34:46
the experience is just an ongoing testimony of of the gospel and how it has shaped you. So
34:53
anyways I just saying that I don't know why that came to mind just probably if you know a listener
34:59
doesn't know who they sit under and are learning from maybe it's just worth kind of exploring that
35:05
because I just wrote down you'll know them by the works well if you have if you're learning for
35:09
someone you don't know who they are you know you could be learning from someone that's a whitewash
35:13
team. Yeah. Well and maybe it's because I feel like using a whole bunch of jujitsu examples because
35:19
there's finally someone here that also trains jujitsu not looking at anybody else with the table that
35:22
perhaps has a train. Eric need Eric and Eric. Yep. But when it's talking about you were
35:28
hourly appear beautiful but within you're full of dead people's bones and all uncleanliness.
35:32
Okay. Don't worry. I'm gonna tie these things together. But there are certain gems. All right.
35:36
So I think everybody in the audience understands the belt system. And so at the very top you have
35:40
kind of master level which is basically black belt and there are levels of black belt but we'll
35:44
just use that and below that is brown belt which is what Robert is below that is purple belt which
35:48
is what I am. So Robert is better than me at you know in all parts of life he ranks higher than me.
35:52
And then below that is blue belt and then below that is white belt. And so you know white belts
35:56
beginner all the way up to black which is you know some level of master expert. There are gems
36:01
in the world that will give you that next belt whether you've earned the right to really have that
36:08
belt or not whether you're performed in a way that makes you worthy of that belt. Some people
36:14
have a system like okay once you understand all this curriculum you get your next belt or once
36:17
you've gone here this length of time you get your next belt. The gym that you and I train at most
36:22
often which is the forge in in Edmond, Oklahoma. They have a reputation for promoting late. So there
36:29
are guys that are murderers at blue belt absolute killers. They will go to other gems and destroy
36:37
brown belts and black belts and they won't be promoted until it's like the very last moment
36:42
and then they'll get promoted to purple belt. But the thing is is you would rather be
36:48
the baddest blue belt on the planet than to be the crappiest least deserving purple belt and so in
36:55
this moment there are people that look beautiful and that new dyed piece of cloth right and it
37:00
makes them feel a certain kind of way and they put that on in a new gym and I was like oh man
37:04
there's a brown belt over there that's basically like a unicorn covered in fairy dust and then
37:09
then the reality happens whenever you slap bump and you roll and you realize this guy's on a
37:14
brown belt. Well in so many of them too what do they do they just avoid all the hard rounds oh yeah
37:18
they just know that they're a paper tiger and know who to avoid and how often do we do that in life
37:25
right I mean yep how many people do the exact same thing. Well they're the guy that will stop in
37:29
the middle of the roll to explain to you what you're doing wrong even because it's like you're
37:34
about to beat me so I'm going to slow you down and turn this into a teaching moment. It's like
37:38
looking to Rogers yeah you don't have anything to tell me at this moment I remember there was a guy
37:43
there was a blue belt the other day oh you know we'll leave the anything nameless but he was trying
37:48
to correct my bow and arrow choke which is a choke that I do quite often and we don't have to get
37:52
into the technicalities what that is if you train you know what that is. Well yeah it's a brutal
37:56
choke and so I go no man I'm good and he goes no no really you really should do it this way so
38:01
I'm a purple belt he's a blue belt that doesn't mean you can't learn from somebody lower than you
38:06
on the totem pole of jujitsu but then he and I actually ended up rolling that night and what do
38:11
you think I subbed him with oh an arrow choke multiple times. It was funny the funny thing about
38:17
it is I didn't even realize how funny it was until after he tapped the bow and arrow and I was like
38:22
well gosh darn it wouldn't you know it like I almost thought and I didn't do it I almost said
38:28
hey did I do it right did I do it okay you tapped pretty fast and pretty aggressively but anyway
38:32
we'll take out the jujitsu commercial here but I think the overall point is is there is a level
38:37
of righteousness that people think that they attain by their outward appearance we live in one of
38:42
those communities in Edmund where everyone's got that beautiful house they've got the perfectly
38:46
manicured lawn their wife gets their nails done every week hair done every week the kids seems
38:50
squeaky clean and perfect at church for the most part and yet there is a level of depravity in
38:55
our city that is so hard to fathom because you can hide a lot of depravity from the public with money
39:02
can't hide it from God but you can hide it with money and new cars and you know vacations and
39:06
all that stuff and selfies and all that crazy stuff but it's like man what's going on in the
39:10
inside yeah it's a completely different level just depravity to the point of having no peace
39:15
I mean immorality in your marriage not fathering your children I mean to the point of just being
39:21
broken in a shell but outside man do they look good I mean they have say all the right things they
39:27
have all the right positions but inside just a shallow you know a shell of the person that they
39:33
want to be and they know who God is calling them to be well guys we got to preach that over ourselves
39:37
as well because you know we all go to the same church and how much more refreshing is it like
39:43
because I remember when this happened I won't name the person but you know you do your typical
39:47
like you know white person in Oklahoma greeting which is hey how you doing and the person was like
39:52
man it's it's rough right now and I was like I was shocked then I was like that's it yes you you
39:59
this was a call for help or like a bridge or something like that in that moment he decided not
40:04
to be like yeah man it's great bless day praying for you have a great rest your whatever it's like
40:09
man I am on the struggle bus can you help me and it's like isn't that so much better than I'll just
40:14
yeah I'll see you later now you don't always have the time or you maybe don't know that person like
40:19
there's all kinds of circumstances but you know part of that is just you're not being humble enough
40:23
to just lower yourself and be like man I know I got a you know six figure job and I've got you
40:28
know a lot of money my retirement account and you know I'm you know I tip this really nice vacation
40:33
here recently and I got a lot of followers on on Instagram or whatever do things are I'm struggling
40:38
right now this really really sucks but that's what you need in order to be real. You have to have your
40:41
foxhole buddies right yeah exactly. You've got to have that circle of guys you can be transparent
40:45
with when they ask you. Well and that's the beauty of it just the more time you spend around one
40:49
another looking at each other around a fire whatever over drinks you know you're gonna you're gonna
40:55
recognize you'll see the non-verbals written plainly and and you'll be like hey man you good
40:59
okay no no whatever you just said that's not right yeah are you good right okay let's talk well
41:05
guess what when you're just an acquaintance with somebody you're not going to go to that next layer
41:09
because you may notice something's off within acquaintance and they're like no I'm in I'm fine
41:13
and you know that they're not fine but you don't know them well enough to know that you know
41:17
that they're not fine but if it's a foxhole brother that you're known by and you say yeah I'm fine
41:21
it's like but you're not you're definitely not and some people have that boldness in their
41:26
personality some people don't but even like Derek I'm reminded like with you sometimes it's a
41:31
quiet word that's needed in a moment so you don't need the guy that's gonna smack you upside your
41:35
head and say stop out of it we're gonna fix it right now sometimes it's you know Sean Strickland
41:39
MMA fighter former UFC middleweight champion he was on Theo Vancho and this guy if you don't know
41:45
anything about Sean Strickland's story he was brutally abused as a child and he was he was around all
41:51
kinds of violence his father a stepfather would like constantly threaten to kill him and his mom and
41:56
you know he was like ready to kill his dad at all times when he was like seven right so that level
42:01
of just crazy depravity well he starts talking about on Theo Vancho and he's real brash real
42:05
whatever and he starts to break down and so you know what Theo Vanda's it's a beautiful moment one of
42:11
the best things I've ever seen on the internet beautiful moment he goes amen I can just sit here
42:15
with you for a minute if that's all right and that they're recording a podcast right this is going
42:19
to go out on the interwebs you like in a few hours after they're done recording but in that moment
42:23
he didn't need Tony Robbins like he didn't need a cheerleader like he needed just a dude to be like
42:29
hey man I can just sit here with you for a minute that's okay and so just man like that's our commercial
42:35
be that guy for somebody else what I talk about like that three a.m. friend like be that guy that
42:40
can be reliable and that will push past that initial discomfort to make sure your brother's okay
42:44
yeah one of the things I really appreciate my about about my uncle Ben is he had this
42:50
his MO was if you came to mind he was reaching out if you were on his mind he was gonna he was
42:55
gonna text you or call you what one he was gonna check in and just see how you were that was how
43:00
he always operated and when when we went to his funeral several months ago repeatedly everybody
43:08
that got up echoed the same thing you know what Ben would just randomly call me out of the blue
43:13
and just be like hey what how's it going what what are you up to you I just had you on my mind
43:17
you know so for those of you that maybe aren't gonna get in somebody's face and you know whatever
43:22
less maybe a little less aggressive that's that's something super practical super super easy you
43:26
could do for your brother I love that yeah that's great that's a whisper I've heard it called before
43:32
you can't name the pastor anymore because he's been canceled but it's like that's a whisper like
43:35
when that person that you weren't thinking about like pops into your mind you have no idea what's
43:40
going on and guys it's not always gonna be a dramatic like hallmark movie on the other end of the phone
43:44
call like it's gonna be sometimes it's just hey you're you're letting a guy know here's another
43:48
touchpoint hey I know you exist and I care about you so I just reach out to say howdy and man that
43:53
can have a big impact and I know most people aren't callers but a text like a man you're all
43:56
in my mind hope you're having a great Tuesday like that that's an awesome thing to do yeah and I
44:01
love that about you to call you've done that several times the last you know two three four five months
44:05
you're like I don't need anything just just reaching out just had you on my mind so you know kudos good
44:11
well it's a good reminder like hey if you did need something like it's just another touchpoint
44:15
because you know how it is you haven't talked to somebody in like six months and all of a sudden
44:19
they call you they need you to help build a fence it's like I'd like you but I hate you now and so
44:24
it feels that way but it's like it's just another touchpoint it's another connection point to where
44:29
you may come to mind that next person the next time that person runs a ground and they need someone
44:34
to help get him out of the muck it's like well you've had a touchpoint with them you know once every
44:39
couple of weeks every few weeks you know to where they would feel comfortable because you know
44:43
it's the same in the opposite you haven't talked to this person in six months you really need help
44:47
they're the person that can help you but you're like gosh I haven't connected with this person
44:50
it seems kind of seems kind of raw and all too often I think that you know we get to the boiling
44:55
point and then we just suppress and we get to that boiling point and suppress and if you have
44:59
somebody like like your uncle that does consistently reach out and you're at that boiling point and
45:04
you're getting ready to cement everything into this like core you know depression this core
45:12
kind of fundamental belief of just I'm not worth anything I can't do anything and you have reached
45:17
out consistently and they're at that boiling point it'll give them that opportunity that cue to be
45:21
able to reach out even if it was two or three weeks before that boiling point comes they know you
45:27
know Kyle reached out to me consistently I feel like because he does care I can then reach back out
45:33
to him right well there's something to be said and then we'll get back into the woes here but there's
45:38
something to be said for the type of guy that you want to be in response to another guy and what I
45:42
mean by that is is there are guys out there that are the life of the party man they're so fun to be
45:48
around they've got the best board games growing up they had the best video games like they were they
45:53
always know where the best uh funds happening the best parties are going on there that guy so
45:57
that guy's gonna be a groomsman in a lot of weddings but when the chips are down and you really
46:04
need somebody to help you are you gonna go to the goofball now when you need a laugh when you need
46:08
a giggle you're gonna go to the goofball but be the guy that makes people a little bit uncomfortable
46:15
sometimes be the guy that requires a lot of your friends be the guy that when everyone else is
46:19
going to the strip club because oh it's you know we're in Vegas and this is just what you do or
46:23
oh it's a bachelor party this is what we do be the guy that's just like um I'm not gonna do that
46:27
because that's the guy that I was and again I'm not like patting myself on the back here I'm just
46:31
using it as an example that's one thing in particular that I would never do that when everybody went
46:36
out to the strip club at the bachelor party I stayed in the car stayed at the house until they
46:40
were done acting like morons because this included married men and every one of these groups as well
46:44
and what do you want to bet when one of those guys was falling into some sexual temptation
46:49
that they didn't know how to deal with do you think they reached out to the other guys that
46:52
were oogling the boobies you're like with them no they certainly weren't they reached out to me
46:56
and now that didn't make me everyone everybody's everybody's favorite there like oh kyle high and
47:01
mighty gonna stay home and like sit there until we're all done being depraved sinners it's like
47:06
yeah that's exactly what you pretty much nailed it like I don't need to give you the script you
47:11
already read it and so like that that's just something that is like think about the type of
47:14
guy that you're going to be but we're gonna get back in here so Derek if you wouldn't mind hitting
47:18
verses 29 through 36 this is the seventh woe oh what do you scribes and Pharisees hypocrites
47:25
rebuild the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous saying if we had
47:31
lived in the days of our fathers we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the
47:36
prophets thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets
47:41
fill up then measure the measure of your fathers you serpents you brood of vipers how are you to
47:50
escape being sentenced to hell therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes some of whom
47:57
you will kill and crucify and some you will flog in the synagogues and persecute from town to town
48:04
so that you so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth from the blood
48:09
of righteous able to the blood of Zachariah or Zechariah the son of
48:15
ooh man or give it a shot that sounds good I'm convinced whom you murdered between the sanctuary
48:22
and the altar truly I say to you all these things will come upon you this generation so and when
48:28
you talk about this generation a lot of people think that's pointing to the destruction of the
48:31
temple in 70 AD one quick thing if you haven't heard me mention it before episode versus one through
48:38
36 pretty aggressive I don't know if you have heard me say that yet aggressive pretty aggressive
48:43
default aggressive even to so to all the jesus meek and mild people to all the you know I want to be
48:48
known for what I'm for not when I get I'm against people I don't ever want people to to you know
48:54
ruffle any feathers I want you to remind yourselves of what our Savior did in verses one through 36
48:58
here the mention of able and Zachariah is pretty important here because able was the first righteous
49:02
person murdered that we see from the Old Testament and then you get back to Zachariah who is the last
49:07
person and so that covers the the law and the prophets you know it covers all those people
49:12
but here's the big thing that I want to talk about here this is what I'm the most excited to talk
49:15
about in all of Matthew 23 I'm going to go back to verse 30 so Derek if you can just read verse 30
49:20
again I know it starts like in the middle of sentence but just hit it saying if you had lived in the
49:24
days of our fathers you would not have taken part with them and shutting the blood of the prophets
49:30
so he's he's saying that that's what these people are claiming I constantly put myself in the place
49:36
of a 20 year old in Germany in the 1930s like a German boy in the 30s and I gotta tell you
49:45
I can't tell you with certainty that I wouldn't have been part of the Nazi party that I wouldn't have
49:51
been an SS person or a brown shirt that if I had grown up in you know Soviet the Soviet Union that
49:58
I wouldn't have been part of the crew at the Gulags that I wouldn't have just taken the next step and
50:03
taken the next order and well hey this is what my boss said to do or hey this is what my commanding
50:07
officer said to do I would like to believe that I would have been one of the righteous few and
50:12
perhaps I would have been but I always remember that I am just as capable of extreme murders to
50:19
gravity as anybody else that we read in history and be like how dare that person act that way
50:25
because these Pharisees in this exact moment were like oh we would have not have taken part in any
50:29
of these unrighteous things it's like do not be too sure about that at all yeah I mean it's like
50:35
the quote you know what's wrong with the world answer I am you know a dividing line of sin goes
50:41
through the middle of all of us and so you know woe to any of us that thinks that we would have
50:46
not been whatever um because it could have happened to any of us um and still could
50:52
the iron I just put the irony they they're condemning themselves you know that's a
50:57
serious like they're sitting there condemning Jesus at the very moment you know that they're
51:03
saying they would never have persecuted or killed the prophets of old what do you guys think about
51:09
that because I know it's kind of a morbid thing to think about but I do think about the book
51:12
Ordinary Men where I think it was following this group of like Polish police officers
51:16
and they went from being police officers protecting the populace to marching Jewish
51:20
women in the middle of the woods stripping them naked having their you know dig their own graves
51:24
and then shooting them in the back of the head and that wasn't like one day they were you know
51:28
helping an old lady across the street and the next day they were doing something different it was
51:32
just a slow you know you know mingling and skipping down the merry path to where they got to doing
51:38
those types of things and some of them couldn't believe it as they were doing it I can't believe
51:43
I'm doing this and it's just like again we hold ourselves above those other people you know we
51:49
look at people that weren't born you know anyone that was both born in the 20th century or before
51:54
that is just basically being a Neanderthal like oh yeah they just feel they didn't really understand
51:58
they didn't really it's this chronological snobbery that C.S. Lewis talks about but
52:02
again I don't know if you all have ever considered that Derek or Robert like and have you ever kind
52:06
of put yourself in like what would I have done what I have been one of the righteous like growing
52:10
up in Germany I'm afraid I always put myself there good I'll catch you no I was just gonna say I hadn't
52:15
until the question was asked maybe on one your podcast and yeah it's like I want to say that I
52:21
would have been on the right side of that but used to really say without Christ for sure I'm on the
52:26
wrong side how many social experiments have there been you know where we clearly can see the stupidity
52:31
and the predictability of our of our reactions based on the situations they place us in you know
52:38
I think I've always to my core like fundamentally as a person which I think all of you guys are
52:43
and maybe this is my other side of the coin for each and every one of us I have truly at my core
52:50
cringed so hard when the innocent suffer I mean that I mean I think of abortion you know I think
52:59
of you know tortured children I think of women that are right I think of the most deplorable acts
53:04
that are out there for the innocent that are begging for their life that are weak and and they are
53:09
they have no chance of being able to protect themselves in a situation begging for something
53:16
and I think in those moments is when at my core I shake and I can't imagine myself no matter what
53:24
odds are against me no matter what pressure is against me not rising up to try to protect the
53:31
innocent inside and so I think I could understand the side of the coin that you guys are on but I
53:37
also know each and every one of you individually and I don't know of any pressure that's out there
53:42
that could truly put you guys in a position and and that would that would torture an innocent or
53:49
and I think this has to do with you have to reckon with who you are and and and we've talked about
53:56
before just making these pre-decisions you know one of the if you ask me what my well my life
54:02
verse is or what my mantra I just love I love the verse to live as Christ and to die is gain
54:09
like how simple of a mantra there simple of a verse that if I truly understand the promises
54:15
of God and who I am in Christ and my decision that made to for him to come live in my heart and for
54:22
the Holy Spirit to guide me and all of that then if brought to that point where somebody was like
54:29
you do this right now or else you die then I could I could just say I could say look I've dealt with
54:35
that and I put it to rest to live as Christ and to die as gain I will not torture I will not do this
54:40
take me yeah one I think you talked about social experiments earlier a little bit earlier Eric
54:47
and we've all seen the kind of the candid camera videos of people being put in that weird spot so
54:53
I'm trying to think that I can't remember the name of the show it doesn't matter but like
54:57
they set it up to where there's like a obviously pre-teen girl sitting in a restaurant by herself
55:02
and then a guy comes up pretending like he knows her like and they're both actors right the little
55:07
girl's an actor and then the man walking up as an actor but you know the whole point is the
55:11
guy's trying to get the girl to leave guy doesn't know the girl girl doesn't know the guy potential
55:15
trafficking situation just to see what people will do and that's one of the scenarios but there's
55:21
all kinds of one there was like a black barbershop where this guy's getting his haircut and a white
55:25
woman comes in and the black barber is like given the white woman crap like you're ruining our
55:30
community like you know how dare you you know ruin the bloodline that kind of thing just to see
55:33
what people would say and every time there's always the people that stand up for justice
55:39
and they just can't help themselves and then there's other people that because they always
55:42
interview the people after the you know the gig is up or whatever and there are those people that are
55:46
just like I froze I didn't know what to do you know and man I let that little girl walk out and
55:52
man if this was a real situation like I don't know that I would have even noticed like and then
55:56
there's those other people that that they have to like you know tap on their shoulder while they're
56:00
looking at their iPad or whatever and say hey did you notice that there was a little kid that was
56:05
screaming just a second ago that they were being yanked at a restaurant and they didn't know who
56:08
they were going with did you notice oh my gosh did that happen and then they showed them the video
56:12
and then it's just like we're all just completely aloof so Robert to your point it's like I know
56:16
all of us too but I also know my own sinful heart and my own simple depravity and it's like
56:21
again we sometimes will educate ourselves beyond our wisdom quite a bit because education and
56:26
intellect is not a gift uh wisdom is and there are times where we could wrap ourselves into these
56:31
philosophical knots and say actually what I'm doing right now is righteous because I'm you know
56:36
honoring what my boss told me to do and that's a good righteous thing so I just think it's a good
56:40
thing for everybody to just remember like don't always hover above the people that you're reading
56:44
in the bible or reading in historical account so what's going on put yourself in their shoes and I
56:48
don't know that you would always make the same decision we need to wrap up here so Robert if you
56:52
could take us through the in here go uh 37 through 39 wrap up Matthew 23 oh Jerusalem Jerusalem the
56:58
city that kills the prophets and stone those who are sent to it how often would I have gathered
57:03
your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings and you were not willing
57:08
see your house is left to you desolate for I tell you I will not see me you will not see me again
57:16
until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord and that basically wraps up
57:21
Jesus's public teaching ministry so his teaching ministry is now over we're getting closer and
57:26
closer to the cross a couple of things is you know a lot of Muslims will say that Jesus never
57:31
claimed to be god verse 37 that is Jesus explicitly claiming to be god by you know comparing himself
57:36
to the way that god is is described morons will use a verse 38 to be like you see god could be a
57:41
woman because it's you know described as a hen or I guess that would be 37 and so like being
57:47
described as a hen or something like that which are obviously ridiculous points of view but
57:51
as you look back from the beginning of Matthew all the way through right now everything has
57:56
been setting you up to get into these last few chapters of Matthew as we work our way towards
58:02
Golgotha but we're going to have to leave it there for now but guys come back here next week where
58:06
we're going to dig into Matthew 24 so make sure you're read all the way up through Matthew 24 but
58:11
before I let you go we are going to do a quick resilience boost add a dot to life remission is
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59:18
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