THE FORGING TABLE | Matthew 21 (Ep. 565)

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1:18 This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.

1:21 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

1:22 Welcome back to the Forging Table.

1:26 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that

1:29 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.

1:32 At the Forging Table, you'll see...

1:35 Just because I started talking about it.

1:37 You got me all psyched out.

1:39 Okay.

1:40 The fart didn't you?

1:41 What does it keep going?

1:42 All right.

1:43 Here we go.

1:44 Three, two, one.

1:45 Welcome back to the Forging Table.

1:46 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that

1:48 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.

1:51 At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience

1:54 by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey

1:57 with us.

1:58 That's Ryan.

1:59 That's Adam.

2:00 That's Dagan.

2:01 Guys, we're digging into Matthew 21 today.

2:02 And typically, we kind of have some goofball-y stuff that we thought, what is this grin on

2:06 your face?

2:07 What?

2:08 I've got something we could talk about.

2:09 This is not approved.

2:10 Okay.

2:11 We did not...

2:12 We said we were going to launch right in.

2:13 Dude, do you realize how much stuff we have in Matthew 21?

2:15 You're opening sounded a lot like me reading.

2:18 Okay.

2:19 I'm going to end it out the one where I totally sucked at it.

2:21 Oh, dang it.

2:22 That's...

2:23 Oh, now I'm going to have to leave it in.

2:24 Is that what we're going to talk about?

2:25 Yeah.

2:26 I think we should have talked about it.

2:27 I was like, "Hey, man, his opening was like me reading a chapter or a verse."

2:31 Okay.

2:32 You know what?

2:33 I tried to make you feel better about sucking, reading out loud, but now I'm just going

2:35 to lean into it because of you wanting to do that.

2:38 I didn't know you were going to...

2:40 I thought you were...

2:41 I didn't ever mind.

2:42 I didn't know I was going to mess up either, but now the entire world's going to have to

2:44 know because I'm going to have to put it into the final edit.

2:46 Kyle's perfect.

2:47 You never messed up.

2:48 Thank you.

2:49 I'm just going to go ahead and say in a previous conversation, previous episode, we're sitting

2:56 on the same side of the table, Adam and I, versus you guys.

3:00 So the ham side of the table, you guys are the ham-likers where the turkey-likers.

3:05 Okay.

3:06 Let's go back to that.

3:07 Let's go back to that.

3:08 I'm still pretty mad about that.

3:09 This ham thing with like, you guys, what's up with ham people?

3:13 I have a problem that you're going to have to help me with, and that's...

3:17 We just got through eating pizza, and you know what one of the ingredients of that pizza

3:21 was?

3:22 Canadian bacon.

3:23 You know what we call that here in America?

3:24 Ham.

3:25 We call that ham, and I watched you take that down your gullet.

3:28 It was good.

3:29 You seem to be enjoying yourself here.

3:30 I think we call it Canadian bacon.

3:31 Do we ever put turkey on pizzas if turkey's so awesome?

3:35 No one's like, "Ugh, I want a turkey and cheese, please."

3:38 I think I would be advocating for turkey for Christmas that they're giving, not for turkey

3:42 on my pizza.

3:43 You're making good points.

3:44 We're bringing this back.

3:45 We're going to celebrate the birth of our Savior or, you know, the things that I didn't

3:49 think of.

3:50 Oh, God.

3:51 You're going to go there?

3:52 You're going to go with the birth of our Savior.

3:53 Okay.

3:54 I can win every argument if I appeal to the birth of our Savior.

3:55 Right?

3:56 Did they have slurpies in the first century too?

3:58 Is that what we have?

3:59 Is it ham unclean?

4:00 No, ham unclean.

4:01 No.

4:02 Ham is so delicious.

4:03 Y'all are unclean.

4:04 That God gave Peter a dream?

4:05 So we would eat it.

4:06 Right.

4:07 He basically told Peter, "You can have bacon wrapped steak snap."

4:09 Eat it, Brad.

4:10 Eat it.

4:11 So what's the problem?

4:12 I still don't get the ham hate.

4:13 It's too salty.

4:14 It's too salty.

4:15 Well, yeah.

4:16 Salty ham.

4:17 Hey.

4:18 Has it, but what if it's got a nice glaze?

4:19 A boy glaze on there.

4:20 Mm.

4:21 Mm.

4:22 Mm.

4:23 Mm.

4:24 I thought this show is about biblical masculinity.

4:25 You got these guys with turkey.

4:26 You have to have it with a glaze.

4:27 You just have sugar and salt.

4:28 I mean, you have to have it with a glaze.

4:29 It's just what fat Americans do.

4:31 They're like, "Can we put a glaze-y sugar on this thing?"

4:34 That is 100% accurate.

4:35 Do you not inject your turkeys?

4:37 No.

4:38 No.

4:39 You don't inject your turkey at all.

4:40 You don't put anything on it.

4:41 You just like just stick it in the oven.

4:42 Just raw.

4:43 Just raw.

4:45 Don't throw some mushroom.

4:46 Medium rare.

4:47 Medium rare turkey.

4:48 I just wanted to throw out there.

4:49 I literally just got through saying, "Guys, let's not get too far off."

4:52 Like before we started recruiting, we were recording because we literally have so much.

4:56 But so have we even gained any more ground, Aegon, now that you've brought up the Ham

5:00 turkey debate, have we gained any more ground than we did beforehand?

5:02 I just know that we're more safe than they are.

5:05 Ooh.

5:06 Ooh.

5:07 Oh boy.

5:08 I just went Theo, bro.

5:09 I'm going to move a little bit farther away from that in case we got some lightning coming

5:14 through.

5:15 You told me I was like, "Andrew Tate's disciple, man."

5:17 You called me an atheist like dude from Britain the other day on one of those.

5:21 I'd rather be an atheist than Andrew Tate's disciple.

5:24 I don't know.

5:25 I don't know about this.

5:26 We just need to save this episode by digging into what we're supposed to be doing right

5:29 now, which is the Bible.

5:31 So Horn, how about you embarrass yourself by reading out loud from the beginning?

5:35 Let's get into Matthew 21.

5:37 And I'm going to give you 11 verses.

5:39 The first 11.

5:40 You think you can keep track that entire length of time?

5:42 I'm going to try to.

5:43 I certainly hope so.

5:44 Let's go.

5:45 All right.

5:46 All right.

5:47 Here we go.

5:48 When they had approached Jerusalem and had come to Beth Page and the Mount of Olives, Jesus

5:51 then sent two disciples saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately

5:56 you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with it.

5:59 Untie them and bring them to me, and if anyone says anything to you, you shall say the Lord

6:04 needs them, and he will send them on immediately."

6:08 Now this took place so that what was spoken through the prophet would be fulfilled.

6:13 Say to the daughter of Zion, "Behold your king is coming to you, humble and mounted

6:18 on a donkey, even on a colt, the full of a donkey."

6:22 The disciples went and did just what Jesus had instructed them, and brought the donkey

6:26 and the colt and laid their cloaks on them, and he sat on the cloaks.

6:31 Most of the crowds spread their cloaks on the road, and others were cutting down branches

6:34 from the trees and spreading them on the road.

6:37 Now the crowds going ahead of him and those who followed were shouting, "Hosanna to the

6:41 son of David, blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest."

6:47 When he said, when he had entered Jerusalem, all the city was stirred saying, "Who is

6:51 this?"

6:52 And the crowds were saying, "This is Jesus, the prophet from the Nazareth in Galilee."

6:57 So the thing about this, that's very important.

6:59 I think we talked about this last week, but we are talking about how Jesus was received.

7:05 Because he's doing his public ministry, not in Jerusalem, he's doing a lot of in Galilee,

7:09 but now he's going back to Jerusalem.

7:11 And the way that there's two very important things here.

7:14 So the cloaks, that shows that they are submitting to Jesus' king, right?

7:18 So he is coming in, like Julius Caesar did after he crossed the Rubicon and came back

7:23 into Rome, like he was welcomed as a future conquering hero, that he hadn't done what

7:28 they thought he was there to do anymore, or yet, rather, and then they went ahead and

7:32 did that.

7:33 And then the branches, I mean, that was a symbol of Jewish victory.

7:36 Like this is something that these people would use these branches for that particular thing.

7:42 But as we talked about, and it's probably a good place to start, this is a crowd was

7:45 expecting a different Jesus than what actually happened.

7:48 When they read the Old Testament, and when they read the prophets, and when they read

7:52 the law, they were looking for a conquering warrior, a military hero.

7:58 That probably had a political bend, you know, just like Julius Caesar, who's already been

8:01 mentioned, but they were looking for someone that was going to do a military emancipation.

8:06 And I wonder if that goes into what we've said already at this point three times, he's told

8:11 his disciples, yeah, I'm going to be killed in three days, I'm going to come back.

8:15 And they just never really believed him because they already had this presupposition in their

8:19 brain that Jesus was going to lead a physical military revolt against the hated Romans.

8:26 And so let's just kind of talk about this because this is an interesting thing.

8:29 You see this depicted in movies, this is something that is really famous, it has to be depicted.

8:34 But there's just a lot here just in the response of the Jewish people to his arrival.

8:38 Think about the wave of emotions between, you know, a king has the right to go commandeer

8:42 and animal.

8:43 And a king comes in and is like, I'm going to go take that one and you would think he's

8:46 probably going to go get the nicest stallion and that he can possibly find, right?

8:51 And he's going to be the guy that's going to triumphally write in and free them from

8:55 the Romans.

8:57 And in actuality, he picks a donkey and a foal who a cult who has not been broken yet.

9:03 And so it's a sign of him being humbling himself and not being what they thought he was going

9:08 to be.

9:09 It's for sure.

9:10 I think it was kind of cool that if you look at what a what a cult in a donkey is, I mean,

9:14 they were, they were the ones that carried the burden.

9:17 They're the ones that carried all the stuff that needed to be carried.

9:20 So he's writing in on a, on a, on a cult and a donkey, but in the end he's the one that's

9:26 going to carry our burdens to the cross.

9:28 One, I think that's another thing that's important to point out about that.

9:31 And I had never really thought about this until I dug in.

9:34 It's like, why was the cult's mom there beside it was because it was unbroken and unwritten.

9:41 And if Jesus were to get on onto an unbroken and unwritten animal, then he was going to

9:46 freak out, like freak completely out.

9:49 After you're right, Adam, you would think if this was his Julius Caesar moment that he's

9:53 coming in on a white stallion and it's, it's going to be, it's going to be gallant and it's

9:57 going to convey power.

10:01 And I guess that's another hint that everybody missed that he comes in on one of the lowliest

10:06 of animals.

10:07 Like it wasn't even an adult donkey or a horse or anything like that.

10:11 Like it was literally the most humble way that he could have come in and yet they still

10:15 greeted him as if he was a conquering hero on a stallion.

10:18 He came to his death humbly just like he came into this world humbly.

10:22 He came into a stable and a manger with already donkeys.

10:25 His mom was, you know, being pulled on a donkey is they're going to Bethlehem.

10:29 And so he came into humble beginnings and he's leaving in a humble way as well.

10:34 And again, we have to remember the Matthew is writing to a mainly Jewish audience.

10:38 So each, each of the gospels kind of have a different theme, a different target audience.

10:42 And so in verse five, you know, when they're talking about that, they're, they're referring

10:45 to Isaiah 62 11, Zachariah, nine, nine in the fulfillment of prophecy.

10:50 And so when you see these people do these like mathematic calculations of what are the odds

10:55 that one person could fulfill all these prophecies and different things like that, because you

10:59 could easily read something like that and be like, dude, anybody could read the Old Testament

11:02 and just, you know, ride into Jerusalem on a donkey.

11:05 That's not special.

11:06 But it's like, yeah, okay, do it, do 50 more prophecies that that Jesus and his life fulfilled,

11:11 like that's a, that's a really big deal.

11:13 And now we need to get to what is going to be a shock to nobody, which is one of my two

11:17 favorite stories and all the gospels.

11:19 And it's one of two times Jesus cleanses the temple more on that in a second.

11:23 But Adam, if you can read Matthew 21, verses 12 through 16, did I catch him slipping?

11:30 Nope.

11:31 Versus 12, verse 12, Jesus centered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and

11:36 selling there.

11:37 He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

11:41 It is written, he said to them, my house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making

11:46 it a den of robbers.

11:48 The blind and the lame came to him at the temple and he healed them.

11:51 But when the chief priests and the teachers of law saw the wonderful things he did and

11:56 the children shouting in the temple courts, Hosanna to the son of David, they were indignant.

12:01 Do you hear what these children are saying?

12:03 They asked him, yes, replied Jesus, have you never read from the lips of children and infants?

12:09 You Lord have called forth your praise and he left them and went out to the city of Bethany

12:15 where he spent the night.

12:16 And it's very likely that in Bethany he was hanging out with Lazarus and his family.

12:20 We don't know that, but we can assume that because that was kind of home base.

12:23 Now I want to talk about what I referred to earlier because it wasn't until about a year

12:27 ago when I was made familiar of the work by Titus Kennedy, who's an archeologist who's

12:31 like a real world Indiana Jones.

12:33 This guy is, he talked about in his book about the cleansing of the temple happening twice

12:39 and I was like, well, wait a minute, like how does that quite work out?

12:42 And what a lot of scholars have come to believe is that the description of Jesus cleansing

12:48 the temple in Matthew 21 is the second time that he cleans the temple because the other

12:53 depiction we have is in John two, 13 through 22, which is like right after he had done his

12:58 first public miracle.

13:00 And so from a timeline standpoint, there would be years of difference between these two things

13:04 and some of the supporting thing is that the biggest piece of evidence is that these two

13:09 separate cleanings and the details are completely different.

13:12 And it's like it would make sense that the first cleansing recorded in John two would

13:16 be the warning and the second cleansing would be the judgment and it's a prophetic warning

13:21 of what's going to what's going to come.

13:22 Absolutely.

13:23 And so this isn't, you know, a hill that I'm going to fight and die on.

13:26 It's like, yeah, it seems like twice, at least twice, Jesus performed an act of premeditated

13:32 righteous aggression.

13:33 And I want to point this out.

13:34 I point this out on my interview with Mike Glover, but some people miss about this story

13:39 is that this was an inherently violent act.

13:43 And the reason is is because we don't see that he just drove out the animals.

13:46 He drove out people.

13:48 And if you've got a whip and you're you're running people out of an area, that is an inherently

13:53 violent act.

13:54 Now, that is not licensed for all of us to be violent because Jesus was violent, but at

13:58 the same time, these people that think that Jesus was always Jesus, meek and mild and

14:02 that he was never aggressive and he never showed anyone the line of Judas side, the revelation

14:07 side with the sword in his mouth and the tattoo on his leg and the robe dipped in blood.

14:12 This is him kind of pointing to the fact that look in this righteous amount of expression,

14:18 I'm going to act in this way.

14:19 So so you guys talk a little bit more about about Jesus and the cleansing of the temple

14:23 because I just love this story because when I talk about seeking the line of Judah, one

14:26 of the ways that you can try to wrap your head around that is a story like this love

14:31 that not only does he kick them out, but he immediately brings in the blind and the lame

14:36 and the sick and those who would not have been welcome there because they were unclean.

14:41 The Jews would not have wanted those people there.

14:43 And who are the first people that he goes after after he kicks them out?

14:46 He brings in the people that should have been there all along and the people that should

14:49 have been being served the entire time by those money changers, right?

14:53 You know, this is this is Passover, right?

14:55 So people are coming from all over to to come celebrate Passover in Jerusalem, right?

15:01 Families bringing, you know, grandma and grandpa loading them up.

15:05 They're all bringing their stuff, their supplies, whatever.

15:08 And some of them are, it's a multiple day journey to get there to celebrate Passover.

15:12 Well, when they get there, they didn't bring their perfect sheep, you know, calf, goat,

15:20 whatever.

15:21 They didn't bring the appropriate animal for sacrifice one because, you know, I think

15:25 the journey for some of these people, you know, it's all on foot.

15:28 It could have been pretty perilous, right?

15:30 And I think when you, you know, I can imagine it's dangerous.

15:34 You could have had something happen to this thing that was important for your Passover

15:39 experience in Jerusalem, this, this thing set for sacrifice.

15:43 And I think it also makes you a traveling target, right?

15:45 Like you're a target for people that I'm just going to take that one because I know

15:48 when I get to Jerusalem, they're going to be selling them in the temple for five times

15:53 what they go for, right?

15:55 Like, I think that became the expectation.

15:57 And so here's Jesus.

15:58 He comes in and he sees his father's house with scalpers all over it, you know, and I

16:04 imagine like if I, if, if I loaded up my family with a handful of things and enough supplies

16:11 to get to, to walk them to Orlando, Florida, right, to go to Disney World and someone had

16:18 bought all the tickets and they're selling them to me for $10,000 a day, kind of a deal.

16:22 Right.

16:23 I would be furious, right?

16:26 Especially if my dad owned Disney World, you know what I mean?

16:29 Like that's the kind of thing that that's what he's coming in here to is these, all

16:33 of these people are getting taken advantage of by the people that are supposed to be leading

16:39 them like spiritually, robbing them blind.

16:41 When I think as well, you know, Ryan, I think a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned like

16:44 pragmatism, we keep trying to read pragmatism into, into scripture, because I've said before,

16:50 when I was doing my MBA program, we had a debate in one of my classes where during hurricane

16:55 Katrina, there was like a guy in Ohio that went to all the lows and home depots in the

17:00 area.

17:01 He rented a big truck.

17:02 He bought all of the generators.

17:04 He could fit in the truck and then he drove down to New Orleans and he sold them all like

17:10 at 10 times what he paid for him.

17:12 And people like the, the class was split down the middle half people are like, what a horribly

17:17 immoral thing to do and all that.

17:19 And then the other half the class, which I was almost like, well, that's a luxury item.

17:22 It wasn't like he was doing that with bottled water and, you know, dehydrated food.

17:27 Like you didn't need those things to survive.

17:30 You did not need a generator creating heat for your home to survive in New Orleans during

17:34 hurricane season.

17:35 You just didn't need that.

17:37 And it, some people will take that same level of pragmatism to a story like this.

17:41 Like, why was Jesus being so mean to the money changers?

17:44 Hey, money changers got to get theirs too, man.

17:47 And if they want to charge it at a premium, like, Hey, it's Passover week.

17:51 Things are always more expensive during OU, Texas weekend down in Dallas and they are

17:56 in the weekend before the weekend after the fair, right?

17:58 Like we should grow to expect that.

18:00 But again, that's when people are bringing their pragmatic modern worldview into something

18:05 that we see here in scripture.

18:06 And that's what really got me was the whole, uh, my house shall be called a house of prayer,

18:10 but you make it a den of robbers, like, look at the modern day church today.

18:14 I'm like, we have a talking normal volume.

18:20 We need volume, baby.

18:21 We can't hear you.

18:22 Want me to be louder.

18:23 Okay.

18:24 You want me to be louder than what I was just saying?

18:25 I want you to speak in a way that we're the mics going to pick it up where we're not going

18:29 to have to edit it later.

18:30 I love you, Ryan, but please use your big boy voice.

18:33 This is like my wife gets on me about this.

18:34 No, it's not, but I can treat you like she does.

18:38 She's real nice.

18:39 She's real nice.

18:40 I love my life.

18:41 She's prettier than Kyle.

18:42 Go ahead and make your point, man.

18:43 Make your point.

18:44 Sorry.

18:45 But what is the modern day church today?

18:46 And I wrote something down.

18:47 I was just like, we've turned a house of sanctification into a den of self righteousness.

18:53 $500 sneakers.

18:54 Yeah.

18:55 We've turned a house of righteousness into a den of pragmatism and we've turned a house

19:00 of conviction into a den of, I would say, a den of acceptance.

19:07 And so that's, that's what the modern day church is.

19:09 We're not preaching the gospel like we should preach the gospel anymore.

19:13 We're trying to find pragmatic ways to get more people in the door, make more people

19:17 happy and try to give people to give more to whatever church organizations going on.

19:23 We're not spreading the true gospel like we should.

19:26 And then some of those legalist church churches or maybe some of those steel bro churches

19:30 that I would probably like a little bit more are not really pushing out the grace message

19:34 that Christ wants to get across as well.

19:36 But we're, we're stuck on two sides now.

19:38 We have, we have the grace and when we have the righteousness, we never find anything

19:42 in the middle.

19:43 And I think this is where Christ brings the lion and the sheep together in this, in this

19:49 temple.

19:50 Well, I think you're absolutely right.

19:51 And that's something that we, we've railed against a lot, which are these churches that

19:55 give you, you know, right after the concerts over in the smoke clears, it's here's four

19:59 ways to live a better life today.

20:01 And it's not undergirded by, you can tell they wrote the four week series and then tried

20:07 to backfill it with script with scripture, typically out of context.

20:10 That was the first time when I started, I've talked about this a lot before, the first

20:13 time I started to really wonder like, what am I still doing here at life church under

20:16 Craig Rochelle, because while I was sitting under another kind of how to be better at life message,

20:21 and he quoted a scripture and it just happened, so happened to be a scripture that I knew

20:25 the context at the time and I was like, that's not at all what that means.

20:28 Like, wait a minute.

20:30 And then I'm like, what else has he said in the last 11 or 12 years that I've been here

20:34 that I just took because he's funny and engaging and entertaining.

20:37 And this church is awesome.

20:38 They have coffee and chips and cookies, but before you walk in the door, but you're exactly

20:42 right.

20:43 There was something I showed.

20:44 I can't remember that dude's name.

20:45 Do you remember the name of the guy that I posted on Instagram, like a day or two ago?

20:49 This is coming out months later, but it's that old preacher at the G3 conference.

20:52 Oh, yeah.

20:53 I can't remember the guy's name.

20:54 I watched it.

20:55 I had never seen this guy before, but he was yelling and he was saying, we don't have

21:00 preachers anymore.

21:02 We have teachers in this country and he's like, and he just, he got, he lit the pragmatism

21:08 on fire.

21:09 Like, this was a verbal turning over of the tables of the money changers and it was just

21:13 like, this dude's right.

21:15 So you'll have the Theo bro churches that are teaching you how to have right theology,

21:19 but your heart and your grace for people is basically nonexistent.

21:23 And then you have the dunderhead churches, which it's, it's all Ted talks with Bible

21:27 versus sprinkled over the top.

21:29 And you know, people lose the thread that way as well.

21:32 That's why I look at my church.

21:33 And so we all go to the same church, I'll brag on it a little bit.

21:36 Faith Bible church in Edmond, Oklahoma, this is not a super entertaining church.

21:41 You're not going to listen to the band and be blown away by the musicianship or by the

21:44 voices or the melodies or the song choices or all those types of things.

21:48 It's just, it's not going to be the same as, you know, an elevation or a Bethel or what

21:52 any of these places that have professional musicians playing there every single week.

21:56 And then you get to the sermon and it's the guy who preaches is pretty dry.

22:00 He has a dry style the way that he approaches scripture.

22:02 He puts stories in around the same time.

22:04 He kind of rinses and repeats his message.

22:07 And every time I am tempted to complain, either in my brain or to someone else or to

22:13 my wife.

22:14 I have to remember our church is incredibly healthy because it grew very, very, very slowly.

22:21 And then when COVID hit and we built on to the church, a bunch of people left two churches

22:26 in our area, live church in Henderson Hills, looking for something that was a little bit

22:29 more meaty and where did they end up?

22:31 They ended up at our church and it's because the gospel is, is preached.

22:36 It is taught.

22:37 And again, you're not ever going to leave there with your hair on fire because that's

22:40 just not pastor Mark Hitchcock's thing, but it's so healthy to where it's like, that's

22:46 a model for people to be looking for a church like that in our community.

22:50 Not only do they want that, but they want to hear the truth and they want to hear the truth,

22:54 truth spoken and all things at all times and it not be sugar-coated, right?

22:58 It's a good medium if you're coming from life church because market's very formulaic and

23:03 is preaching.

23:04 I mean, I can tell you how every sermon is going to go, maybe not what's in it.

23:08 But having friends that come from life church or come from one of those secret sensitive

23:12 churches, they're actually getting a expository preaching through this man and like, God has

23:17 given him a gift.

23:18 God has, God has grown his church, not because, hey, he's taken a pragmatic approach.

23:22 No, God's growing his church because he's just preaching the Bible and he ends with the gospel

23:27 every time.

23:28 The music may not be there.

23:29 I think our music's not my thing there, but I think the people who put it on do a wonderful

23:34 job in doing it, but here's what I have to know about worship.

23:38 Worship is just like the Bible.

23:40 It's not about me.

23:41 Right.

23:42 It's true.

23:43 It's about worshiping God.

23:44 And I think that's a great point and one quick thing on that and we need to, we need

23:47 to keep moving on to people that kind of have a tendency like me to be very critical, like

23:52 I have a very critical eye and very critical of myself, but I'm critical of any presentation.

23:57 If you're complaining about the people at your church that are doing the music, understand

24:01 that maybe only one of those people on stage is being paid.

24:05 The rest of those people are volunteers.

24:07 Okay.

24:08 So are they the world's greatest guitar player?

24:10 No.

24:11 Are they the world's most grooviest drummer?

24:13 No.

24:14 But these are people that are volunteering and they are worshiping God by helping you worship

24:19 God.

24:20 And that is a mandate of us to be able to do that.

24:22 So if you want to complain, but not learn how to play guitar yourself or learn how to,

24:28 you know, sing some sort of melody or something like that, just go ahead and keep that to

24:31 yourself.

24:32 Like if you want to listen to amazing Grammy award, nominated music for the rest of time

24:36 and only listen to people that are amazing musicians, you have that opportunity in this

24:40 world that we're in right now.

24:41 Did you want to hit that up on, on, on this specifically, this might be an obvious comment,

24:47 but do you not feel like this is a shift in Jesus's ministry at this moment where there's

24:52 been times where he's healed in the past, he's done things in the past, but it's kind

24:56 of been in the background and there's sometimes he's done things that don't talk about this.

25:00 That's not happening anymore.

25:01 Now he's doing it out in the open.

25:03 It's in the temple.

25:04 He's healing people.

25:05 He's doing things.

25:06 It's not being hidden anymore.

25:07 Yeah.

25:08 Cause he knows the time's up.

25:09 It's checked.

25:10 Exactly.

25:11 It's changed.

25:12 The time is coming.

25:13 Yeah.

25:14 I think, I think the shift certainly happened because he's wanting his, he's at the point

25:16 in his ministry where he's not worried about the crowd size or his ability to move because

25:21 he, he's on the way to Jerusalem.

25:22 Like we're in passion week.

25:23 We're in Holy Week now.

25:24 Right.

25:25 And so some of the other times when he told people, Hey, don't tell everybody, it's because

25:28 he's, he's trying to operate and do ministry without just being completely overran and

25:33 without.

25:34 So think about what they did as he came into the city.

25:35 They treated him like a conquering king.

25:37 They would have done this two years beforehand had he done any of those types of things beforehand

25:41 as well.

25:42 That's an excellent point.

25:43 Cause think about what they do to him in a few days, those same people who save his

25:47 Anna.

25:48 Yeah.

25:49 Well, it's going to turn on him.

25:50 It's going to change.

25:51 That's a great point.

25:52 Um, let's go ahead and hit the next section.

25:53 Um, Adam.

25:54 Are you just read, uh, Degan?

25:55 You're on.

25:56 All right.

25:57 He's cursing the fig tree.

25:58 So let's go versus 18 through 22.

26:01 Now early in the morning, as Jesus was coming back to the city, he was hungry, seeing a

26:06 lone fig tree at the roadside, he went to it and found nothing but leaves on it.

26:11 And he said to it, never again will fruit come from you.

26:15 And it wants the fig tree withered.

26:17 When the disciples saw it, they were astonished and asked, how is it that the fig tree has

26:21 withered all away, or away all at once?

26:25 Jesus replied to them.

26:26 I assure you, and most solemnly say to you, if you have faith, trust and confidence in

26:32 me and do not doubt, or allow yourself to be drawn into two directions, you will not

26:38 only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, be taken

26:45 up and thrown into the sea, it will happen.

26:48 And whatever you ask for in prayer, believing you will receive.

26:52 So one of the interesting things about this particular story is I have heard people advocate

26:58 for before to not read commentaries.

27:02 They're like, if you're reading commentaries, you're reading people's interpretations of

27:06 the word of God, you're not reading the word of God.

27:08 Well, that wasn't until I was studying this this week that I ever understood why Jesus

27:12 got mad at a tree, right?

27:14 So I think a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about, you know, your wife is mad

27:17 that you didn't plan a tree before, you know, you knew you were going to move like a year

27:21 later or something like that.

27:22 And you got trees that like shed sticks and like, you know, this is like the tree crew

27:27 right now.

27:28 So why was Jesus so mad at a tree?

27:30 Well, figs, I guess, were used as a metaphor for the Jewish people.

27:33 And as anyone that's ever listened to John MacArthur talk, he's obsessed with fruit.

27:37 And the thing was his fruit was a sign of a right relationship with God.

27:41 And so when Jesus, you know, came upon this tree, he wasn't making a comment about a tree

27:46 because I've heard non-Christians before, like on some, you know, interview or whatever,

27:49 it's like, okay, we're, we're really going to follow a guy that got mad at a tree because

27:53 it didn't have figs on it.

27:54 Like, who's going to follow a guy like that?

27:56 And if you're dumb, like I was, if you're ignorant about the context of what we're deciding

28:00 here, you're going to take that argument, hook, line, and sinker and you'll be like,

28:02 yeah, I mean, this impetuous dude that got mad at a tree and curse it and it died.

28:07 But that was the one thing that was shocking for me for the story that I'm so thankful

28:10 that I had commentaries where people were able to just explain this in a very, very

28:14 simple way and it's elucidated the story for me in a way that wasn't there prior to.

28:19 Yeah.

28:20 The people who should have welcomed him, who should have had fruit, the Jews, rejected

28:25 him.

28:26 Well, I just think it also shows his dominion just over the world and over people that,

28:33 you know, he cursed a tree with no fruit, what is he going to do to a person with no

28:37 fruit?

28:38 Well, yeah.

28:39 And with that, the power of his judgment, yeah, like it was, it wilted in a heartbeat.

28:43 No one had ever seen anything happen like that.

28:45 So his, his judgment is immediate.

28:49 But couldn't you almost look at this as like, you know, Jesus cursed his tree for not having

28:54 any fruit and it wilted and it died, but like, isn't that what happens to us once we hear

28:58 the gospel is that we become born again.

29:02 And so we kind of are open to, you know, we wither away at our old self and become new

29:08 and start producing fruit.

29:09 That made me think about that as well.

29:13 I was thinking about, you know, Adam and Genesis, he goes to a fig tree, not for fruit, but to

29:21 pull off a leaf to cover himself in shame, right?

29:25 So it's like, even man's interaction with like the symbolism of fig tree has been pretty

29:31 ironic since the very beginning, right?

29:32 And that's not by accident for sure.

29:34 I say irony.

29:35 It's not by accident.

29:36 One, I think, go ahead, oh, you know, and, and, but, you know, God searches our character

29:41 to see whether there is, is faith and love and hope and joy, which is all the fruit of

29:47 the spirit.

29:49 If we've got patience, if we've got any self-deniality, any, if we've got fervor and prayer, you

29:55 know, if we're actually walking with God, and if he doesn't see those things, he's not

29:58 satisfied with the church going, the prayer meetings, the communions, the sermons, the

30:03 Bible studies, right, like it, like those are the leaves where he is the fruit in our

30:08 lives.

30:09 And if he doesn't see that, you know, we, we get the judgment.

30:11 Kyle, you mentioned that this was maybe out of possibly out of character or not typical

30:16 with the other miracles that Jesus has done.

30:20 This is one of only two that was negative.

30:23 And the other one was when he cast the demons into the swine and the swine ran off the cliff

30:28 and died.

30:29 So I think to your point, when you thought, why did Jesus curse a tree?

30:33 Well, why did Jesus kill all the swine?

30:36 Same thing.

30:37 Why did he give up to that ham?

30:39 Well, and we're back.

30:42 Light it up.

30:43 Get him right.

30:44 Get him.

30:45 Oh, he killed the ham.

30:46 He killed the ham because they're unclean and it's terrible food and he saved the turkey.

30:51 But you said it was one of the, one of the, what did you say?

30:54 You said it was one of the miracles that he did.

30:57 That was one of the negative struck up here.

30:59 Because it was right.

31:00 He killed the ham.

31:01 No, he didn't have to.

31:02 He chose to.

31:03 No, he saw those ham.

31:04 He knew how sweet the ham was.

31:06 And so he wanted to make a point to the populace like, Hey, I'm taking these sweet

31:08 hams from y'all.

31:09 No bacon.

31:10 Anybody.

31:11 This is sacrifice.

31:12 I'm going to need a commentary on this story to really get the content.

31:15 I have this commentary from John, like ham, like ham, make ham, sir.

31:21 Yeah.

31:22 So, so ultimately you don't need to read a commentary just to know that y'all are super

31:25 duper wrong and on the wrong side of this and you will forever be on the wrong side of

31:28 this.

31:29 And I know exactly what to get you for your birthday.

31:30 A big maple glazed ham.

31:33 Spiral cut.

31:34 Oh, yeah.

31:35 You know, whatever you want to do.

31:36 I like the thicker pieces, but I will say with this, sorry, shut up, man.

31:41 Come on.

31:42 We're being adults here.

31:43 Come on, we're adults.

31:44 All right.

31:45 So another thing with this that I think is important to point out before we move on is

31:47 this tree had a chance to sprout fruit.

31:50 How much time did it have to sprout fruit and it just didn't?

31:53 And so I think this is also a points to the patience of God in a lot of times as well to

31:59 where there could be there could have been fruit this entire time.

32:03 And it wasn't like that.

32:04 It wasn't given the ability to have fruit.

32:06 And again, he's not talking about a tree, right?

32:08 He's talking about Israel, but you know, you're the tree and you've had all this time to bear

32:13 fruit.

32:14 And here comes here comes Jesus.

32:15 And so you're like, you know, like you're trying real hard to push something out, like

32:18 how many of us are like that, right?

32:20 Like mine just kind of comes out sometimes it's a struggle, but you know, the trees like

32:26 man, like I really regret not bearing fruit to this point because now it would be convenient

32:31 to have some.

32:32 And it also shows like God's like you said, God's patience with us because he's not going

32:37 to treat us like the tree.

32:38 I mean, we have a whole life to to one hear the truth and then to bear fruit.

32:43 So one, even there's no mistake.

32:46 There's no coincidence.

32:47 This is the Monday of passion week.

32:50 So doesn't it seem kind of, I don't know, kind of elementary or unimportant for him

32:56 to be making this point on a Monday of passion week in Jerusalem?

33:01 Like if we take the timeline literally like he just got through cleansing the temple,

33:05 this seems like a downgrade, right?

33:07 This is seeing the headliner, you know, and then seeing the opening act last, you know

33:11 what I mean?

33:12 Like some people would like that because you get to go home and get better earlier, but

33:13 you know, the promoters don't like that as much.

33:15 You don't sell as many beer in t-shirts.

33:18 So let's go into the next story here.

33:19 So we'll just put it out there to whoever wants to read it because I forget who read

33:22 last.

33:23 So we're going to get into the authority of Jesus challenge.

33:25 So Adam, since you got pointed out by Dagan, let's go ahead and read verses 23 through

33:31 27 verse 23, Jesus entered the temple courts and while he was teaching the chief priests

33:37 and the elders of the people came to him by what authority are you doing these things?

33:41 They asked, and who gave you this authority?

33:43 Jesus replied, I will ask you one question.

33:46 If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I'm doing these things.

33:50 John's baptism.

33:52 Where did it come from?

33:53 Was it from heaven or of human origin?

33:56 They discussed it amongst themselves and said, if we say from heaven, he will ask, then why

34:01 didn't you believe him?

34:02 But if we say of human origin, we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that.

34:07 John was a prophet.

34:08 So they answered Jesus.

34:10 We don't know.

34:11 Then he said, neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.

34:15 I laughed when I read it now and I laughed when I read it earlier.

34:18 Go ahead and hit it.

34:19 I know you got some good commentary for yourself.

34:21 Just because it's so witty, it's interesting.

34:24 He has trapped them again.

34:26 They are trying to trap him and by him returning a question with a question, he has taken the

34:31 wind out of their sails and realized that they can't answer the question in the affirmative

34:36 or in the negative.

34:37 If they say that he's from heaven, they're toast.

34:40 They say he's from the people or of human origin, they're toast.

34:44 So they can't answer the question.

34:45 He's already given them their answer.

34:47 It's amazing.

34:48 What I think is, well, if you've been through any negotiation training or sales training

34:51 on a run, you've done a bunch of sales training, just like I have in the day, and you've got

34:55 a lot of people that you help with sales and all that, like you don't want to get into

34:58 a questioning battle back and forth with the person you're trying to close, okay?

35:03 So if you ask somebody a question, they ask you a question back and then you answer their

35:06 question, you have handed them the keys to the conversation.

35:09 So you never want to do that.

35:11 You always want to ask a question to get the onus back on them to answer.

35:15 In this thing, they asked their question, their zinger, right?

35:18 That their zinger ready to go because they wanted him to say that his authority comes

35:22 from God, which means they could basically string him up for blasphemy.

35:26 He asked them a question back and they just go with it.

35:29 They're like, oh, crap, we need to really figure out what we're going to say here.

35:34 And just by the fact that they took the point of receiving in that conversation, it kind

35:39 of exposed their lack of authority to question him to begin with, right?

35:43 Because if they had authority and their question was the ultimate question, then they would

35:48 have never accepted the subservient position of having to answer a question because it's

35:52 like, no, Viva asked the questions.

35:54 Like that was their their moment to be to be the Nazis and be like, no, you're going

35:58 to answer our question.

35:59 So it was just a big shift in the power dynamic here.

36:02 All right.

36:04 That was a great point, Kyle.

36:05 Yeah.

36:06 You just freaking nailed it.

36:07 I mean, gosh, how did you get so smart?

36:09 Yeah.

36:10 Dead air with my favorite.

36:11 That was awesome.

36:12 And there was a, okay, well, I'll keep going.

36:15 I thought I thought I got some other stuff because I have more things to say about it.

36:18 The thing is, is if if the reason the conundrum they were in this conundrum is because if

36:23 they affirm John's ministry, then they will simultaneously be condemning themselves because

36:29 they condemned John's ministry, right?

36:32 So they can answer that way.

36:33 But then if they deny John's ministry and the validity and value of it, then they fear

36:38 that the people will revolt because John was so beloved.

36:43 And I mean, gosh, I've asked some great questions before.

36:46 I like that.

36:47 We're just like super intelligent, super well planned out.

36:51 I've never off the cuff again.

36:53 I'm not God.

36:54 So that that helps him, but, but I've never off the cuff been able to ask one question

36:59 to not only take the heat off of me to answer something, but to put them in an absolute lose,

37:04 lose situation.

37:05 And it's so lose, lose that they basically decide I'm not playing your game anymore.

37:09 He's like, all right, well, I'm not playing your game.

37:10 No way for them to win.

37:11 They can't answer the question.

37:12 Well, in this crowd, you know, we just, this is the crowd that just laid coats and prawns

37:19 down to welcome their, you know, and now of course these guys are terrified of the crowd.

37:24 You know what I mean?

37:25 They just watched them welcome him into the city and now they're trying to to trap him.

37:30 I can just imagine like, man, these spineless little weaklings just saying this question

37:36 at backfires and they're all, and you know, where it says, where it says, and they began

37:40 debating among themselves, you know, this little huddle of weenies, they're just like,

37:44 Hey man, if we say something, we're, we're, they're going to kill us.

37:47 You know, and it's just like, what a bunch of losers these guys are.

37:50 I think they're always just trying to politicize everything.

37:52 They're always trying to be more political than they are.

37:55 Because that's their world.

37:56 That's where they can flex.

37:57 Yeah.

37:58 It's like, it's just, they're like, Oh, how can I, how can I say this the right way and

38:02 be pragmatic and not make everybody mad at me?

38:05 Well, and to the crowd forever, they've been the authority.

38:08 Yeah.

38:09 Right.

38:10 And now the authority has shifted to the dude who just walked into the, from the city.

38:14 Right.

38:15 Well, and in all the way up until this moment, they have taken the softer approach to try

38:22 to take him out.

38:23 So they try to ask him questions publicly to stump him to either make him blaspheme so

38:29 that they can charge him with blasphemy or make him seem silly.

38:32 Because if he answers the question in their minds, unpoetically or in an unsatisfactory

38:37 manner, it's the same way that if you go to some, you know, town hall meeting for a politician

38:41 that you're interested in, and then they just like have kind of a wet fart performance.

38:44 You're like, I don't really want to, I don't think I want to support that person.

38:47 And like it has that same feel to it.

38:49 That's what they're trying to do to Jesus.

38:51 But you know, before too long, they're going to take a different tact entirely.

38:54 Or if Jesus showed up to pass over with a ham set of a turkey, well, then he, then everyone

38:59 goes to heaven.

39:00 That's the thing.

39:01 You know what?

39:02 What if this tree had bared hands?

39:03 How awesome would that have been?

39:04 Right.

39:05 But that didn't happen.

39:06 Jesus would have been super satisfied.

39:07 There would have been no fig tree example.

39:08 Right.

39:09 Because ham so awesome.

39:10 Everyone would have been distracted.

39:11 I'm not going to lose this ham debate.

39:12 I'm telling you this right now.

39:14 I'll come up four more times.

39:15 Okay.

39:16 Great.

39:17 All right.

39:18 Let's get into this next parable of Jesus.

39:19 Oh, Ryan, let's go parable the two sons.

39:22 That's versus 28 through 32.

39:24 Well, what do you think a man had two sons and he came to the first and said, son, go

39:30 to work today in the vineyard, but he replied, I don't want to yet afterwards.

39:34 He regretted it and went and a man came to a second son and said the same thing.

39:38 And he replied, I will, sir, and yet he did not go.

39:42 Which of these two did the will of his father?

39:45 They said the first Jesus said to them.

39:49 They said the first Jesus said to them, truly, I say to you that the tax collectors and the

39:53 prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you for John came to you in a way of

39:59 righteousness and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes

40:04 did believe him.

40:06 And you seeing this did not even have second thoughts afterwards.

40:10 So that has to believe him.

40:12 It is so hard.

40:14 Yeah.

40:15 Adam's making like the old boy face.

40:17 So again, if you read the Bible, as if Jesus has no personality, as if he's just a robot,

40:23 truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and prostitutes, go into the kingdom of God before

40:27 you, you lose how much of a burn this is huge.

40:32 There is no more hated category of people.

40:36 Number one, and number two, most hated, despised, reviled people by the Jews in this time in

40:42 history are tax collectors and prostitutes.

40:44 They are, they are just hated for a myriad of reasons, two separate reasons, but it hated

40:49 all the same.

40:51 And so to say to the religious elites, again, as, as y'all just pointed out, the ones that

40:55 everybody looked to, the ones that had all the authority, the ones that had all the political

40:59 power, all that stuff, to say that and then basically say y'all are behind the tax collectors

41:05 and prostitutes.

41:06 Like this is like a major mic drop moment that you can just read through and you're kind

41:10 of confused by the prayerable and you might miss it.

41:12 It's so important.

41:13 Brut of vipers, pouch.

41:15 Right.

41:16 I mean, because people say, oh, a brute of vipers and they don't really know what that

41:18 means.

41:19 It's like, think of the most offensive thing that you could call a group of people in

41:23 modernity.

41:24 That's what Jesus called these people.

41:25 Yeah.

41:26 Right.

41:27 It wasn't a racial slur or something like that, but it was like calling them something that

41:28 would have been, you know, fighting words for lack of a better term.

41:31 These are fighting words for sure.

41:33 What was Matthew's profession?

41:35 Tax collector.

41:36 Oh, okay.

41:37 Yeah.

41:38 Yeah.

41:39 Well, that's, that's the thing.

41:40 Oh, go ahead.

41:41 Yeah, he basically tells him, you know, it's the humble rejects and cast offs, not the

41:46 proud and prominent who God will how to participate in his work and how upside down of a thought

41:52 is that in this time.

41:53 Like, you know, in previous chapter, we talked about, or previous episode, we talked about

42:00 the blind men, right, cast offs.

42:02 And Jesus is making his way to them in spite of every, but he's saying, leave them alone.

42:07 You know, don't bother.

42:08 Jesus, and he goes and gives them their sight.

42:11 You know, it's like that, I mean, he really did turn everything upside down.

42:15 Like their measure of everything was the law that Moses delivered to them.

42:19 So it's like they had in, in their estimation, like the path to God, Jesus was here to save

42:25 them from Rome.

42:26 Right.

42:27 He was there here to conquer and, and all of the, you know, these things that he's saying,

42:31 it's just turning everything upside down.

42:32 And I can see it's like, you know, well, they had to huddle up and debate because they were

42:36 probably like, did you guys hear that right?

42:39 What's he saying?

42:40 Did I get that?

42:41 They keep getting out smarted as well because they answer him initially by saying, you know,

42:45 which one was righteous and they say, oh, yeah, the first one's righteous.

42:49 And it's like, cause they think they're answering like, Oh, we're in the cool kids crowd.

42:54 Yeah.

42:55 He's like, Oh, yeah, but you're correct.

42:56 And by the way, you're not in that group.

42:57 You're the second son.

42:58 Cause that's the whole thing in this parable.

43:01 God is the vineyard owner.

43:02 The first son or the sinners who were disobedient initially and then, you know, repented under

43:07 John.

43:08 And then the second son, those are the religious leaders that claimed to be obedient reminds

43:11 me of the rich young ruler, like he thought he was super duper righteous.

43:16 And he's like, yeah, I do all these things, but yeah, just tell me how it can be perfect

43:18 and go to heaven.

43:19 It's like, bro, you're missing it.

43:20 You're missing the whole thing.

43:21 I mean, if you look back to this parable and you look at the, the father and think of

43:27 God saying to you, repent and believe, I don't want to.

43:31 I don't want to repent and believe, but yet afterwards they regretted it and went repented

43:36 and believed.

43:37 And now these Pharisees and Sadducees are being called to repent and believe and they're

43:42 like, all right, I will, but then they don't because they're caught up in their own selfishness

43:45 and satisfaction.

43:47 And they already think they're right just to begin with, but didn't God already know.

43:50 We're going to go there.

43:51 Do it.

43:52 Do it.

43:53 Do it.

43:54 I want to get into it in the next episode.

43:55 So just go ahead and peel it off, bro.

43:57 So if let's go.

44:02 So how do we know if God is saying that in this parable, it says, I will not, but later

44:09 he changed his mind.

44:12 How do we know that that person, what if he hadn't [inaudible]?

44:15 How am I going to say this?

44:16 Are you reading the message?

44:17 Where was that?

44:18 Well, verse.

44:19 That's so.

44:20 29.

44:21 Yeah.

44:22 Verse 29.

44:23 I will not.

44:24 He answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

44:26 Would you change your mind the other direction?

44:29 Can you repent and believe?

44:30 Can you repent and then can you repent and believe and then choose to not believe?

44:34 You cannot lose your salvation.

44:36 Right.

44:37 So you would say they never repented.

44:39 If they don't repent.

44:40 Yeah, they never repented.

44:41 They never truly repented.

44:42 So you can go one direction, but not the other.

44:47 You cannot lose your salvation.

44:48 If you could, you've already lost it.

44:50 Well, I thought you would say that you never had it to begin with.

44:54 I'm just saying, if you could lose your salvation, you would have already lost it.

44:57 But yeah, you would never had it to begin with.

44:59 See, that's, that's, I don't understand how it can be go one way.

45:02 You can say, I don't want to follow, okay, I'm following now and then change your mind

45:07 later.

45:08 You can't change your mind.

45:09 You never really truly believe the gospel.

45:13 So, so this person in this scripture in verse 29, I will not.

45:18 He answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

45:19 And so if he changed his mind and went and the parable, it means that this guy decided

45:23 to follow Jesus.

45:24 So what do you do when you become saved?

45:26 You believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead and saved, saved you from your sins.

45:30 That's all you do.

45:31 That's how you become saved.

45:33 There's nothing else after that and you repent and you repent.

45:37 Sure.

45:38 So what's happening right now is think of it this way.

45:40 He's asked them to repent.

45:43 Here's my message.

45:44 Believe in repent.

45:45 They're saying, eh, you choose not to repent.

45:47 They haven't been repented yet.

45:49 It's hard for me to see how it's a one way street and you can, you can get there and

45:54 then you can never fall away.

45:56 That one's hard for me to fall away.

45:58 You're not God.

45:59 You're a hundred percent right.

46:01 Am I think, my thing with that is we get hung up on that and we get hung up on like,

46:07 here's God sovereignty.

46:08 I'm really big on God sovereignty, but sometimes we get hung up on what we can do and there

46:12 is we do do something we do our action in after the gospel is presented to us and we believe

46:19 in our eyes are open to the beauty of the gospel.

46:22 We have a choice to repent and if we choose not to repent, I mean, that's where we came

46:27 back from a farther episodes where I talk about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

46:32 Like the Holy Spirit's eyes have opened to you.

46:35 The beauty of the gospel, you're choosing not to believe it.

46:38 You're choosing to go your own way.

46:39 You're choosing to harden your heart.

46:41 God's allowing you to harden your heart towards it.

46:43 So you said, you said the word choose like six times there, but there are a lot of people

46:48 that kind of fall in the same theological camp as you that would never even use like

46:52 choose might as well be the F word because that's how that's how rough that word is.

46:56 And I hear you on that and like and that's where I'm like, I'm not I'm not in the hardcore

47:01 camp that you don't do anything to get your salvation.

47:04 You have to do something.

47:05 You have to repent.

47:07 You have to see the beauty of the gospel.

47:09 And then when we talked about the whole blasting the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin, I'm

47:15 like the most unforgivable sin I can honestly think of as your eyes are open to the gospel

47:19 and you just choose not to repent and live the life that God wants you to live.

47:25 I used to lie awake and fear of blasphemy in the Holy Spirit.

47:28 I'm like, I hope I remember I remember being in fear of it like even going into my head.

47:33 Yeah.

47:34 Like if the thoughts going in my head, like, Oh my gosh, it just came in my head.

47:37 I'm toast.

47:38 Questioning.

47:39 Questioning is I don't think is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

47:42 I mean, we're mere humans, we don't have the knowledge that God has.

47:46 We're going to have our questions.

47:48 But to flat out know the gospel, like, who's that guy from that Christian group?

47:54 Oh, man.

47:55 Kidman's call.

47:56 Can't remember his name.

47:57 Derek Webb.

47:58 Derek Webb.

47:59 Derek Webb.

48:00 Like, yeah, I totally believe the gospel.

48:01 I just choose not to live it because there's certain things in the Bible.

48:03 I don't like that straight up blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

48:07 Like if he's going to go to his death saying, I know the truth of the gospel, can he change?

48:14 So would you say he never actually believed the gospel that I would say he never truly

48:18 repented of it anything and does not see the in Caesar beauty of the gospel, but chooses

48:23 to harden his heart towards repentance.

48:25 So I don't want to go too far into that because I think we're going to be, yeah, this is like

48:28 the way off subject.

48:29 Well, this is going to be like a pre fight for the super fight.

48:31 That's going to come out next week.

48:33 But so again, keep me accountable.

48:38 We got a little bit more before we close out.

48:39 Derek Webb has made music that has and has played at concerts where people came to faith

48:45 in Christ with lyrics that were profoundly biblical, that were very gospel centered.

48:52 And then they were very successful.

48:54 And now he's doing what he's doing now.

48:57 And I mean this sincerely because I don't have a good answer.

48:59 How would it be possible that he would be in that position able to do those things and

49:03 to be able to create those lyrics that only you could argue would come from somebody that

49:07 understands the true sweetness that comes from repentance and the acceptance of the gospel,

49:12 but then simultaneously be a guy that has fallen away so much so that a strict, reformed

49:17 Calvinist would say, yeah, he was probably never saved to begin with because look at

49:21 the devil in the desert, he uses those same words against Christ and twist them.

49:27 So you're saying he was twisting, I'm just saying he was using it for personal gain.

49:31 I don't know what he was using it for.

49:33 People come to Christ all the time through people come through Joel Steen.

49:37 People came through Ravi Zacharias.

49:39 People came through Ray Bolts who's now a practicing homosexual who wrote a lot of good

49:43 theologically correct songs, but but you're saying those people are not, are not saved.

49:49 Would you say they're saved because they came from them?

49:52 What do you mean?

49:53 I'm I'm I'm asking about like Ravi Zacharias Joel seen are they not safe like here's the

49:58 thing is the level of the poverty that comes from sinners saved by grace and sinners not

50:02 yet saved by grace like they're going to be oddly similar for a lot of people like I again,

50:09 the fruit of Ravi Zacharias is life in every area of life except for his sexual depravity.

50:16 You could say absolutely this man is a Christian, but he kept giving into to sexual sin.

50:21 Yeah, some of these people are actually Christians they keep giving into financial sin and dishonesty

50:25 and those types of things.

50:26 So I think it would be really hard to try to start categorize a Joel scene to his own

50:29 category of stupid, but it's like to start categorizing certain people like Ravi Zacharias

50:34 and say like, Nope, he, you know, he brought a lot of people to Christ, but he himself

50:38 was not like, how could you bring some of the crisis in not understanding yourself, but when

50:42 it comes down to it, I'm just trying to use your argument about Derek Webb who basically

50:46 says, yeah, the gospel, I believe it, but I choose not to with Ravi Zacharias.

50:52 I use him as an example is that he did some pretty horrible things, but people came to

50:55 Christ through him rather whether Ravi Zacharias is in heaven or not.

51:01 I don't know.

51:02 I don't know what the convictions were on his heart, even though he had this secret sexual

51:05 sin.

51:06 I don't know if he ever repented or what, but people have secret sins.

51:10 Let me let me try to drill down my my actual question because I feel like I feel like this

51:14 is actually very important, can a non believer who doesn't actually understand the gospel

51:21 from a heart level, not intellectually, not able to quote the verses, but actually understand

51:26 it from a personal heart level and have repented of their sins.

51:30 How could how could somebody that has not done that lead other people to Christ?

51:34 That's the thing that I find odd, like how can a non Christian evangelize to a Christian

51:40 about Christianity, which is something that they themselves don't possess in terms of

51:44 salvation.

51:45 Does that make sense?

51:47 That's a fervent question.

51:48 Like I don't, I don't have a great answer to that, but I would assume.

51:51 So you say people have come to Christ through Joel Osteen.

51:54 Have they though, or did they come to Christ in spite of him?

51:57 I think they've come to Christ through Joel Osteen.

52:01 He said something that opened their eyes of the gospel and whether they see it as a repentance

52:06 or they see it as a prosperity, God can still move through their lives through Joel Osteen.

52:11 Just like God still moved through the lives of people, through Ray Bolson's music, through

52:15 Derek Webb's music, through Ravi Zacharias who had secrets and through Moses, through

52:19 King David, through Paul, the murderer.

52:21 Yeah.

52:22 I mean, he can still use those people, but does it mean that they are saved?

52:26 Degan, you're being awfully quiet.

52:28 You got anything to add here?

52:29 Well, you know, as long as Joel Osteen didn't mess up the gospel message, like all the other

52:35 stuff that he says on the outside of that, that's all fluff, right?

52:38 The gospel message of the reality of we were created by God.

52:43 We were separated from him by sin, you know, Jesus, death, resurrection, salvation, all

52:51 that.

52:52 Like, that's the thing you got to get right.

52:55 Like everything else, man, it's just, it's like we talked about in a previous episode

53:01 where you were talking, you were struggling with, like, why do we have the same divorce

53:05 rate within church-going people that we do non-church?

53:08 Well, it's the, the, the depravity you talked about.

53:11 Like, just because I go to church doesn't mean that I am more patient with my wife.

53:17 Yeah.

53:18 You know what I mean?

53:19 Like just because I know Jesus doesn't mean I'm instantly more patient with my wife.

53:23 Now the closer I get to Jesus, I would think the more I'm leaning into him and learning

53:28 his scripture and living in a life, I'm seeking sanctification, the easier it is for me to

53:35 be patient with my wife, which like the more songs I write about Jesus, I would think that

53:40 would be the same thing.

53:41 You know, if I'm in a position where I'm writing sermons week after week after week about Jesus,

53:45 you know, how do you talk about the guy from Hillsong who wrote a bunch of Hillsong songs

53:51 and now he's, he doesn't believe it all.

53:54 He's an atheist.

53:55 And that's the thing is when you talk about your wife and you talk about patience is yeah,

54:00 you, you realize you don't, you've lost your patience with your wife.

54:03 Why?

54:04 Because of conviction through Christ.

54:05 These guys are not convicted in their sin.

54:07 They see this.

54:08 This is why I need to live my life and there's nothing wrong with it at this point in time

54:12 in their lives.

54:13 And, and that's why I don't want everyone to, I wouldn't go to Derek Webb and say, I judge

54:17 your salvation.

54:18 You're never going to heaven, but his fruit that he's putting out right now, if he doesn't

54:21 repent from what he believes right now, then yeah, I think there's a very good chance

54:26 Derek Webb's not going to be there with us, but I hope and I pray that God opens his eyes

54:31 to repentance.

54:32 So I want to put a pin in this because next week we're going to be, I think hitting this

54:35 quite a bit more, but something came up as y'all were kind of talking like, okay, so

54:39 how can people write these songs and not really understand the gospel?

54:44 It's like, if I were to write a song about how beautiful the Rocky Mountains are, but

54:48 I've never been to the Rocky Mountains, like how hard would that be a wave and I've never

54:53 seen a picture of the Rocky Mountains.

54:54 I've never heard a description that would seem odd to me.

54:57 And it's just as odd to me as how someone can be a New Testament scholar, like an expert

55:01 and also be an atheist, because there are a lot of people out there like that, like they

55:04 are an expert in the Greek and the Hebrew and they know everything that happened, but they

55:09 just don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, that Jesus is the Messiah.

55:12 So how do you explain that one?

55:13 We need to hit this last section before we wrap up.

55:15 I don't know whose turn it is, so y'all will just surprise me when it's time to read.

55:19 So, um, parable of the tenants.

55:21 So we're going to start in verse 33 and close out all the way through verse 46.

55:26 Who read last?

55:27 I read last.

55:28 You read last.

55:29 Dagan, you're up.

55:30 Let's go.

55:31 I will point at you.

55:32 Point back.

55:33 I just, I'm so quick to point.

55:34 I love pointing.

55:35 Stop pointing fingers.

55:36 Okay.

55:37 Uh, listen to another parable.

55:38 Is that right?

55:39 Verse 33.

55:40 Yes, sir.

55:41 Okay.

55:42 Listen to another parable.

55:43 Put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to

55:48 tenant farmers and went on a journey.

55:50 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the, sorry, he sent his servants

55:56 to the tenants to get his fruit, but the tenants took his servants and beat one and

56:01 killed another and stoned a third.

56:03 Again, he sent other servants more than the first time and they treated them the same way.

56:08 Finally, he sent his own son to them saying, they will respect my son and have regard for

56:14 him.

56:15 But when the tenant saw the son, they said to themselves, this is the heir.

56:20 Come on.

56:21 Let us kill him and seize his inheritance.

56:23 So they took the son and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

56:28 Now when the owner of the vineyard comes back, what will he do to those tenants?

56:33 They said to him, well, he will be put.

56:36 He will put those despicable men to a miserable end and rent out the vineyard to other tenants

56:41 who will pay him the proceeds at the proper at the proper seasons.

56:46 Jesus.

56:47 Am I, am I going still?

56:48 Sorry.

56:49 Yeah.

56:50 Read all the way through the end.

56:51 Jesus asked them, have you never read in the scripture the stone which the builders rejected

56:55 and threw away has become the chief cornerstone?

56:58 This is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous and wonderful in our eyes.

57:02 Therefore, I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to people

57:07 who will produce the fruit of it and he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces,

57:12 but he on whom it falls will be crushed.

57:16 When the chief priests and Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was

57:20 talking about them.

57:22 And although they were trying to arrest him, they feared the people because they were weenies.

57:27 No, because they regarded Jesus as a prophet.

57:31 This is the weenies episode.

57:32 Can't wait.

57:33 Are the weenies made out of ham potentially.

57:35 Yes, it came up again.

57:37 I'm a turkey dog, man, myself, we don't have a lot of time on here at the end.

57:41 So we need to kind of speed this up in terms of this, this tenant, the parable, the land

57:46 owner here is God, the vineyard is Israel, the kingdom of God, the vine growers are the

57:51 leaders of Israel, right?

57:53 The rejection of the landowners slaves.

57:55 That's kind of a rejection of the prophets by the Jewish religious leaders and the rejection

57:59 of the sun is a rejection of Jesus, obviously.

58:02 And so I'm going to really focus in on that last part that you read there, Dagan, specifically

58:06 versus 43 and 44 verse 43 in the ESV says, therefore, I tell you, the kingdom of God

58:12 will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

58:16 Most people in Protestantism, or just, I guess Christianity would say that this is the moment

58:22 that Israel was replaced by the capital see church, Catholics would claim that they are

58:28 of corner of the market on the capital see church, Protestants would quibble with that.

58:32 But in terms of God's like program, which is, I think, how the Moody commentary said

58:36 it was like God's program, the church has now replaced Israel.

58:40 And so when people are looking for that moment, that crossover moment, so if you're a Jew,

58:45 and you know, you've, you know, stumbled your way accidentally until the book of Matthew and

58:49 you're wondering when did these frickin Christians or when did these Jews decide that, you know,

58:54 Jesus was the Christ I was foretold and when did we switch over from us being the chosen

58:58 people in Israel being so important, verse 43, that is what everybody points to.

59:03 So is that kind of what y'all saw as, as y'all were going through different commentaries

59:07 or anything?

59:08 Same.

59:09 And I'll piggyback on as you continue in verse 45 on the previous parables.

59:13 They were stumped and maybe they got it.

59:15 Maybe they didn't.

59:16 They understood this one.

59:17 And they knew what he meant.

59:18 They knew where this was going and they got it right.

59:21 And I thought the MacArthur commentary had an amazing sentence about verse 44.

59:26 So I'll read verse 44 again, and the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces

59:31 and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.

59:34 So this is a direct quote from the John MacArthur commentary.

59:37 This saying suggests that both enity and apathy are wrong responses to Christ and those guilty

59:44 of either are in danger of judgment.

59:47 And the way this works out is because if you were to throw this against the stone, whatever

59:53 you threw against it breaks.

59:55 If you were to throw the stone against the thing, it still breaks.

59:58 And so people try to get wrapped around the axle about, okay, is this enity or apathy?

1:00:03 And the answer is yes.

1:00:05 Yeah, like it's, it's both.

1:00:07 It's either.

1:00:08 It doesn't really matter in this particular scenario.

1:00:10 So I thought that was an interesting section here.

1:00:12 Other thoughts on on this last section of Matthew 21, you know, I can't help think what

1:00:20 what type of tenants is the modern day church, oh boy, you know, I just, I'm reading this

1:00:25 and I'm like, man, he is really given it to the, to the religious leaders of the day.

1:00:30 And I can't help it.

1:00:31 Just think like, what kind of tenants are we, when he comes in, like, what, what is he

1:00:36 going to see?

1:00:37 You know, I think I can't remember it was earlier in Matthew where I talked about the

1:00:43 bad trees would be rooted up and thrown into the fire and things like that.

1:00:47 And I think that's essentially what we're seeing is there's a lot of churches that look

1:00:50 healthy because the buildings are nice.

1:00:53 They look healthy because of the HD cameras that, you know, online church is filmed on

1:00:57 and like, gosh, the outside of the cup, the, the RZIM inside of the cup looks really good.

1:01:03 And everything's very well produced and it's very pretty and it's very attractive, which

1:01:07 I'm not against those things.

1:01:09 If you are a Christian, you should be able to produce the most beautiful and perfect like

1:01:13 seeming content on the planet.

1:01:15 But my goodness, there's nothing.

1:01:17 There's just nothing to a lot of these ministries.

1:01:19 There's nothing to these pastors.

1:01:21 These are, these are guys that bought in to the franchise model of how to build a church.

1:01:29 Yeah.

1:01:30 So you build one and then you get enough money and you do kind of a 1035 exchange and then

1:01:34 you put money into the next place and then you get a bunch of people to build that place

1:01:37 up, get everybody to pay for it and cash.

1:01:39 And then you just do that and eventually you're sitting there and you've got 10 churches like

1:01:42 you're building a rental property empire and it's just like, that's not it.

1:01:47 That is just flat out, not it.

1:01:48 I think you're bringing up a great point because man, I think there are a lot of churches

1:01:51 that think they're doing well just because their numbers are growing, but there's, there's

1:01:55 no gospel being preached.

1:01:57 There isn't.

1:01:58 And if you look at these Pharisees and Sadducees, they were just keeping, the Pharisees were

1:02:01 keeping people down and it's, if you look at the modern day church, they're not doing

1:02:05 much to keep people up.

1:02:06 They're not discipling them.

1:02:08 And that's what we're, that's what we're missing a lot is discipleship and these Pharisees

1:02:11 were not discipling these people.

1:02:13 They were just telling them what they were doing wrong all the time and why they weren't

1:02:16 any good.

1:02:17 And now we are in an era of church where they tell everybody, hey, it's all about self and

1:02:22 it's all about self acceptance, but we're afraid to tell people, hey, this is what Christ has

1:02:26 called us to do.

1:02:27 You know, you can't live your life that way.

1:02:29 No, we're not going to tell anybody that because that's not going to keep them coming

1:02:31 into our doors.

1:02:32 And so we're seeing an opposite effect now in modern day church.

1:02:35 And I think, I think people that listen to this, you know, need to know that if, if they,

1:02:40 if they don't have a lot of experience with church, if they didn't grow up with church,

1:02:43 if they are going to a church that isn't challenging them, that should be a red flag.

1:02:48 You know, if they're not preaching the word of God, like from the Bible, that's red flag,

1:02:52 like there are unhealthy churches out there.

1:02:55 There are churches that are bad tenants of our Heavenly Father's vineyard and those,

1:03:00 those exist.

1:03:01 So ask, ask hard questions of the church leaders that, that, that get up on the pulpit

1:03:06 every Sunday.

1:03:07 And if they don't have good answers, you know, you, that's a red flag.

1:03:11 Always say, if you walk into a church and you feel like you're a good person, when you

1:03:15 leave, find another church.

1:03:18 If you walk into a church and you feel like you're in condemnation, find a different

1:03:22 church, because what the gospel brings you is conviction, not condemnation and not telling

1:03:27 you you're good.

1:03:29 Because if you were good, it's like going back to the rich young ruler.

1:03:32 What is good?

1:03:33 Who is good?

1:03:34 God is good.

1:03:35 Jesus is good.

1:03:36 We're, we're not good.

1:03:37 That's why we need him and one last thing and then we'll close it out with.

1:03:41 So one thing I get asked a lot and I hate not having the answer to a question that I'm

1:03:45 asked, but I will have someone say, Hey, I just moved a, you know, Knoxville, Tennessee.

1:03:51 And I want to find a church.

1:03:52 Do you know of a man friendly church in my area?

1:03:56 And if somebody asked me about Edmund, the city I live in, like, I, you know, it'd be

1:04:01 hard pressed to kind of give them an answer.

1:04:03 I know what they're asking.

1:04:04 It's the same thing.

1:04:05 You move from Edmond, Oklahoma and you've trained at the, the forage Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

1:04:08 for the last five years and you moved to Knoxville, Tennessee.

1:04:11 You want to know if there's a legit Jiu Jitsu school in your area, so you don't have to

1:04:13 try out 10 of them.

1:04:14 You want somebody to kind of get you to the end.

1:04:17 But what I tell people is exactly kind of what y'all have gone through.

1:04:21 Like do, are you, are you getting spiritual skittles?

1:04:24 Like do you feel good when you walk in and good when you walk out?

1:04:27 Do you feel like you're just condemned and judged the entire time?

1:04:30 Probably not a healthy church.

1:04:31 Did you hear a sentence or two of the Bible and it was, I sajeeded, not exajeeded.

1:04:35 So I sajeed is where you read into the scripture or what you wanted to say and exajeed is to

1:04:39 explain what it says and in the context that it's in.

1:04:43 And I, I try to tell people all the time, don't get distracted by the size of the parking

1:04:47 lot.

1:04:48 Don't get distracted by the clothing of the preacher because people want to get on the

1:04:51 preachers and sneakers for wearing $1,000 Jordan's, but they're not noticing the guy

1:04:55 that's wearing the three piece suit is wearing $1,000 Italian loafers.

1:04:58 And so it's like, I'm sorry, don't, don't get on to me about the sneaker stuff.

1:05:02 But it's not about the size of the congregation either, because some people are like, I want

1:05:06 to have a big impact.

1:05:07 It's like, you can have a big, big impact in a small church.

1:05:09 You might be able to have a bigger impact in a small church because they're going to

1:05:12 need you.

1:05:13 And I forget who said this initially.

1:05:14 There's a parking lot test.

1:05:15 Oh, it was Owen Strand said this the first time it came on the show.

1:05:18 There's a parking lot test with churches.

1:05:20 Do you see men in the parking lot?

1:05:22 Are they helping older women get their way inside?

1:05:27 If it's raining, are they the ones holding the umbrella as well?

1:05:29 They're getting wet.

1:05:30 Are the men serving?

1:05:32 So if you want to find a man friendly church, are the men singing during worship?

1:05:36 Can you hear men's voices?

1:05:38 Can you hear the base in the men's voices?

1:05:42 Do you see men fervently worshiping?

1:05:44 Do you see men obviously discipling and catacizing their children, even in the hallways?

1:05:49 Do you see when there are volunteer opportunities that it's not 95% men or 95% women, but you

1:05:55 see a lot of men?

1:05:56 Do you see men not waiting for the planning committee or the missions committee to come

1:06:01 up with something that the men can do if it's just happening?

1:06:05 Having a healthy church, a man friendly church isn't about how big your men's ministry prayer

1:06:09 breakfast is Saturdays at 7 a.m.

1:06:12 It's about are the men in your church working after God's heart and doing it out of an overflow

1:06:19 of the gospel reality in their life.

1:06:21 So there's more that can be said there about Matthew 21, but we're going to go ahead and

1:06:24 close that out.

1:06:25 Let's come back here next week, excuse me, where we are going to dig into Matthew 22.

1:06:30 And so before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost out undaunted

1:06:33 life.

1:06:34 Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and

1:06:37 physical resilience.

1:06:38 So I didn't mention the the crossway stack, but we do have a stack of books that you can

1:06:42 get from crossway.

1:06:43 That is our forging table starter set.

1:06:45 So you can check that out in the show notes and also link to where you can hop on board

1:06:48 and be a donor.

1:06:49 Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.

1:06:51 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five

1:06:54 star review.

1:06:55 If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email

1:06:58 to info@undonton.life.

1:07:01 That's I N F O at undonton.life.

1:07:03 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,

1:07:07 including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.

1:07:10 Just go to www.undonton.life and also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us

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1:07:17 The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self title debut album on

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1:07:25 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson, remember keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual

1:07:30 mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.

1:07:52 Thanks for watching.