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in terms of condition supply.
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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:56
Welcome back to the Forging Table, the mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push
1:00
back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:04
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:07
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
1:10
with us.
1:11
We got the OG, the horn, right here to my right.
1:14
We got the return appearance of Mr. Dagan Boyd right across, and we look at that fantastic
1:18
beard, salt, and pepper in the house, but who in the world is this guy?
1:22
I think you have broken the vest barrier on this podcast.
1:26
That is Mr. Adam Smith.
1:27
Adam, welcome to the Forging Table.
1:29
Pleasure to be here.
1:30
How excited are you right now?
1:31
I'm very excited.
1:32
You came up with your boots and your vest, and I mean you're freaking ready.
1:35
Ready to go.
1:36
All right, so every time somebody's here for the first time, the audience doesn't know
1:39
who you are, so we have three questions that I always have trouble remembering, and it's
1:43
happening again.
1:44
Three questions you have to answer.
1:47
How did you become a Christian?
1:49
How do you like to study the Bible?
1:51
And how does your brain work?
1:53
So you have like two minutes total to answer those three questions.
1:55
So ready, set, go and make it interesting.
1:57
So I became a Christian when I was probably seven years old.
2:01
I can remember walking into mom and dad's bedroom, looking at mom and saying, "Mom,
2:06
I think I'm ready to be a Christian."
2:08
That's not where I thought that story was going.
2:09
Nope.
2:10
Okay.
2:11
All right, good.
2:12
Pretty boring, and I remember getting on my knees and praying, and I feel like I've
2:15
been kind of on that path ever since then, so I don't have a miraculous story outside
2:22
of that.
2:23
And then what was the second question?
2:24
Second question was...
2:25
How do you like to study the Bible?
2:26
Like what's your normal method?
2:27
My normal method would be first thing in the morning.
2:29
If I don't get it done in the morning, I seem to find that life gets in the way and other
2:33
things happen.
2:34
So get up in the morning, read the Bible, pray about it, and continue my day.
2:41
How does your brain work?
2:42
My brain is never off.
2:44
My brain is always on.
2:46
It's constantly going.
2:47
I have a hard time slowing it down.
2:50
I would say my brain is very analytical.
2:52
I'm a math guy.
2:53
I like numbers, anything that is organized type A, that's me.
2:58
Okay.
2:59
Well, before we dig into Matthew 19, as I was reading through Matthew 19, I was overwhelmed
3:06
with the idea of like a nothing fight.
3:08
So I don't know about you guys, but in my marriage, we've been married almost 15 years.
3:12
We have like a whole category of fights in our life of like, this is about nothing.
3:17
Like when you go back later, you're both so fired up and you're just like categorically,
3:21
we fought about nothing.
3:23
And so I want you guys to give me either your best or one of your better nothing fight
3:28
moments because I'm going to give you like, why y'all think about it?
3:31
I'll tell you about one that's constant with my wife and I.
3:34
So it's not just one thing.
3:35
My wife and I, if we were, if our entire life was both of us walking up equally to a door,
3:41
it's one of us grabbing the handle, opening up and being like, after you and then being
3:46
like, no, no, no, I insist after you.
3:47
No, no, no.
3:48
I insist after you and then just doing that for 45 minutes.
3:52
That is us.
3:53
We like trip over ourselves to try to make the other person comfortable and to accommodate
3:56
them.
3:57
And then we end up just like fighting because it's like, I'm trying to accommodate you.
4:02
The other person's like, I'm trying to accommodate you.
4:04
And then it's like, it's such a stupid fight, but we just can't get past it.
4:09
We just do it all the time.
4:10
So that's, that's kind of how we get after it.
4:12
But for y'all and y'all's wise, because everybody at the table has been married a long
4:15
time.
4:16
What are some good nothing fights?
4:17
My fights have never been about nothing.
4:20
It's about something that turns into something totally different than what it was about.
4:24
One time we got in a fight about green onions because I had to go to the store and get green
4:30
onions because my wife forgot them at the store.
4:36
If you can watch this on YouTube, I am pushing Ryan's face towards the microphone because
4:39
I lecture him.
4:40
I've tried not to talk too loud.
4:42
Every time.
4:43
No, no, no.
4:44
It's Ryan.
4:45
It's not talking too loud.
4:46
It's being consistent.
4:47
Right on top.
4:48
There we go.
4:49
There we go.
4:50
We got in a fight about green onions.
4:51
It was like, she forgot the green onions, so I was like, I'll go to the store and get
4:55
the green onions.
4:56
And so she was mad that she had to go get the green, or I had to go get green onions.
4:59
And so we had a knockdown drag-out about green onions for like 30 minutes.
5:03
So where she like left and I was like, Hey, if you're leaving, might as well come back
5:07
with a pizza because dinner is not done.
5:09
Don't ever do that.
5:10
So, yeah, I was.
5:12
Did she come back with pizza?
5:14
No, she did it.
5:15
Okay.
5:16
I apologize.
5:17
And then we came to the root cause was because I said no about getting a tree planted in
5:22
the front yard.
5:23
So she was like, my friend got one of those trees that I want in the front, probably ended
5:27
in her front yard.
5:28
And I, I want one planted in our front yard.
5:30
I was like, we're not even going to live here and after a year, like we're going to
5:32
be moving.
5:33
Like I'm planning it for the next guys in this house, you know?
5:37
And so I was just like, I just thought it was funny, but that's what our arguments always
5:41
come down to like, we argue about something, but then it's something totally different
5:46
than what one of us was really arguing about.
5:49
There's like a deeper meaning to that argument.
5:51
Solid nothing.
5:52
Fine.
5:53
Green onions.
5:54
All right.
5:55
Dagan Adam.
5:56
Well, man, I've got so many, you know, you bring up foods and now all my stories, I start
5:59
thinking about food.
6:00
I'm like, man, we fight about food a lot too.
6:03
One thing that is is it's more of a pet peeve and it's really a nothing thing, but my wife
6:08
does not throw away leftovers.
6:10
She doesn't want to open up the Tupperware and smell a week old, whatever it was.
6:15
So she just leaves it in there.
6:16
And then I, as like, I'm just trying to prove my point of like that I'm always the one that
6:21
does it.
6:22
So I just, I continue to leave them in there, right?
6:25
Kids complain.
6:26
I complain.
6:27
She'll say, I can't believe this is still in there and no one will do anything about
6:29
it.
6:30
And so we've gotten into arguments about that.
6:32
But really early, like before we were fighting about nothing, like our first big nothing
6:36
fight that I remember was when she was pregnant with our first kid and she sent me to the
6:40
store for Gatorade, right?
6:42
And like, this is the first time I'm dealing with like the craziness of like a pregnant
6:47
woman.
6:48
And I come back and so she sends me to the convenience store for Gatorade.
6:51
I went to Walmart and I was like, well, I'm just going to get a lot of Gatorade.
6:55
So I don't have to keep doing this.
6:56
And I come home with like two big orange gallon things of Gatorade and she immediately is
7:02
like on me.
7:03
She's like, where have you been?
7:04
And I was like, well, I went and got Gatorade.
7:06
And so I hold up my Gatorade, both Gatorade things.
7:10
And she starts balling and she goes, that's too much.
7:15
So then we're in this argument, like I'm feeling like I am doing this active service.
7:20
And then she's like, well, that's too much Gatorade.
7:22
You didn't do what I asked you to do.
7:24
You took what I asked you to do and turned it into your own thing.
7:27
And then that's that's essentially how we got started.
7:29
And it's been kind of, you know, we've worked on the arguing about nothing ever since.
7:33
I think the real reason she was crying is because you're holding up Gatorade like it's
7:36
too participation, you know, look what I do.
7:41
See this Gatorade.
7:42
Look how fancy I am.
7:44
All right, Smith, you and your wife, you know, she's kind of fiery.
7:47
So there's got to be some good nothing fights in there who who does dishes in your house?
7:52
We both do.
7:53
We're kind of both.
7:54
Okay, so I'm about 5% on the dishes, right?
7:57
So when I go do the dishes, like I'm expecting that I did something, you know, I did the
8:02
dishes and it's going to result in something positive and something specifically positive
8:09
is going to happen, you know, I did this.
8:12
And so this is going to result.
8:14
And sometimes when your mind expects like, man, I am such a good man.
8:19
I did the dishes.
8:20
I put them up.
8:21
Not only did I did it, but I did it all right exactly how she wants it to be done.
8:25
I dried them.
8:26
I'm completely done.
8:27
And you get zero recognition for it.
8:29
And it's because that's probably what I should be doing.
8:32
But in my mind, I thought I was going to get a reward and the reward didn't come.
8:36
And so boom.
8:37
Here goes the, here goes the arguments in there.
8:39
Well, I can just offer this up to you.
8:42
When you do the dishes, if you'll let me know, I won't give you the kind of reward that you
8:46
were expecting, but I will give you like a verbal pat on the head like, Hey man, great
8:51
job.
8:52
That helps.
8:53
You did kind of this.
8:54
You did have a clon day.
8:55
There's your inside joke for anybody who's been listening the forging table only all you
8:58
knew people, you're not going to know what that is.
9:00
But the reason why I was thinking through that is because this first section of Matthew 19,
9:05
it kind of gets into this whole idea of divorce and kind of what divorce was like back in
9:09
the day and what you could divorce people for because, you know, we're all kind of telling
9:12
our stories and, you know, it's kind of one of those things where it's like, they're funny
9:14
now, but at the time when you're having the green onion fight, and I've heard you tell
9:18
that story before.
9:19
So it's like, that's a horn family story, right?
9:21
That's what you'll tell your grandkids.
9:23
It's because we can look back and be like, yeah, that was ridiculous.
9:25
But when you're in the moment, like you're so fired up and you think you're right and
9:27
you're righteous and all those different things, but you would never think this is
9:30
divorceable.
9:31
Like this is divorceable behavior because I bought the wrong flavor or too much of the
9:36
Gatorade or I didn't get what I thought from doing the dishes.
9:38
So Adam, let's go ahead and get your reading out of the way from the beginning.
9:43
So because we got a bunch of great out loud readers here, but we're going to have you
9:46
make it make it happen here from the very beginning.
9:48
So you're going to read Matthew 19 versus one through nine.
9:52
Got it.
9:53
Matthew 19 verse one.
9:55
And what version are you reading from to start when I'm in IV?
9:58
All right.
9:59
Let's go hit it.
10:00
When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of
10:03
Judea to the other side of the Jordan.
10:05
Large crowds followed him and he healed them there.
10:08
Some Pharisee came to see came to him to test him.
10:11
They asked, is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?
10:16
Haven't you read?
10:17
He replied that at the beginning of the Creator made them male and female and said, for this
10:22
reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will
10:27
become one flesh.
10:28
So they are no longer two, but one flesh, therefore what God has joined together, let
10:34
no one separate why then they asked, did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate
10:39
of divorce and send her away?
10:42
Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard, but
10:47
it was not this way from the beginning.
10:49
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another
10:54
woman commits adultery.
10:56
So there's a lot to talk about here in this first section.
10:59
It was obviously a trap, you know, constantly the Pharisee and Sadducees were trying to
11:02
catch Jesus in a trap, trying to get him to answer a particular way.
11:06
And obviously it never really worked out for them.
11:08
But Rabbi Hillel, he taught that a man could divorce his wife literally for any reason.
11:14
Like that was kind of an undercurrent for this and I didn't know until I was really digging
11:17
into it for the forging table, but that's why he brought this up and that's why it was
11:21
brought up in the way that it was brought up because there were Hillelites that were
11:25
basically like, yeah, if your wife, I think it was actually in his writing, like if she
11:29
burned dinner, like that was a divorceable offense.
11:33
But then Jesus, he's constantly kind of moving the goal post as to kind of what is acceptable
11:38
behavior or orthopraxia or those types of things.
11:42
But with this, with this whole concept, you guys can comment about whatever you want to
11:45
do, but I really just want to have this overall talk about divorce because you would expect
11:52
that divorce inside the church would be different, at least statistically speaking, than divorce
11:58
outside the church.
11:59
But when you look at divorce rates, they're essentially the exact same.
12:03
And I guess the problem that I see is it's clear from scripture that if you marry, if
12:08
your marriage ended in divorce and it wasn't because of death or sexual immorality or adultery,
12:15
then when those two people get married, that they are committing adultery in that moment.
12:20
Some people say, okay, they committed adultery, but then it's not adultery going forward.
12:24
Some people are arguing that it's adultery every time they're literally living in sin
12:27
like someone in a homosexual relationship.
12:30
I guess for me, like my parents are divorced, I know somebody all, maybe your parents are
12:33
divorced, so they're still together.
12:35
But like, that's such a black eye for the church, in my opinion, that, you know, we can't
12:40
hold our marriages together any better.
12:42
And so people are like, well, I want to become a Christian, like their marriages aren't
12:45
better.
12:46
They wear stupid clothes.
12:47
They listen to crappy music.
12:48
Like it's just kind of one of those things.
12:49
Like, I don't think it's talked about enough, if that makes sense.
12:52
I think the funny thing to look at is look at Rabbi L.O.
12:55
I mean, he kind of brought that pragmatic approach to Judaism and we're seeing that pragmatic
13:02
approach be moved in through the church nowadays.
13:04
And so divorce isn't really that frowned upon anymore.
13:08
But also love is no longer a verb, even with Christians.
13:11
It's not an action.
13:12
It's a feeling.
13:13
And when we go about thinking that our marriage is a feeling of love and not an act of doing
13:19
something, I think that's when it turns into the divorce conversation, which I think here
13:24
Christ kind of went with Rabbi, I think it's Shami, Shami would have been the more rigid
13:29
approach where he said only through sexual immorality.
13:33
So...
13:34
And Shami was like a contemporary of Hillel, but like had a much different view.
13:38
Yeah.
13:39
I think that's what makes us look at Christ talking about divorce here.
13:44
And divorce is one of those things where they've taken a pragmatic approach to it.
13:49
They're dealing with a pragmatic approach to it right now.
13:52
And these teachers, these rabbis are trying to trap Jesus in this.
13:55
And look how Jesus comes back.
13:57
He comes back with the rigid position of there shouldn't be divorce at all.
14:02
What God put together made no man pull apart other than sexual immorality.
14:05
Right.
14:06
I agree that they were trying to trap him, but do you think they even cared what his answer
14:10
to the question was?
14:11
I think they just posed the question.
14:12
They said the goal was to test him.
14:14
I don't know that they cared what his answer was going to be.
14:18
I think it was for political reasons.
14:19
They're trying to pit him against Hillel or Shami.
14:22
And so I think it was more of a political question that they asked him.
14:26
Because regardless of his answer, you're going to peel off either Hillelites or Shamiites
14:31
or something like that.
14:32
What I think is awesome is he stayed with the word.
14:35
He stayed with the biblical tradition of marriage of what God wants.
14:41
He said, I know we're going to go over this later in the chapter, but he says that Moses
14:47
gave this to you because your hearts are hardened.
14:50
So Moses didn't even want this because he knows God doesn't want this, but this is what you
14:54
guys wanted and your hearts are hardened to it.
14:56
So he made it.
14:57
He said, OK, fine.
14:58
Sexual immorality.
14:59
Right.
15:00
So just kind of drew a different line.
15:01
So Kyle, going back to your comment on the divorce rates in church and outside of church,
15:07
it's to Ryan just brought it up because your hearts were hard and stubborn.
15:12
There being a Christian and going to church doesn't make your heart less hard.
15:18
Your heart is just as hard.
15:20
There's a lot of stubborn people who go to my church.
15:23
The difference is that those stubborn people have accepted the free gift of grace.
15:30
You know what I mean?
15:31
Like that sacrifice has been laid for them.
15:33
They've received it, but it doesn't make them any less sinful.
15:37
It's like they're still willfully disobedient people that I go to church with every week.
15:42
So it's like those were all the same people.
15:47
But obviously getting together every week, accountability, teaching, being around and
15:53
into the Word, you would think that the rates would be different.
15:57
But all the more reason that Jesus had to come because they gave us a list of 10 commandments
16:03
that, well, they're not going to follow those.
16:05
So we're going to have to have, we're going to have to do something a little more dramatic.
16:11
I can't understand as a Christian, as somebody who I've got a network of people I would fall
16:18
to and frankly kick my butt if I started to do some things that were leading down that
16:23
path.
16:24
But that's because I go to church.
16:25
Right.
16:26
That some people can be in church and have that and some people can go to that same church
16:31
and not like maybe that's the difference between some of this happening to the church going.
16:36
And you mentioned accountability and you mentioned being with a certain group of people that
16:39
are going to hold you accountable.
16:41
I think a lot of churches today don't have that and a lot of people might be in the pews
16:47
and be willing to listen to the pastor, but they're not going to call you out when you're
16:51
doing something wrong.
16:52
And they're not going to call you out when you're mistreating your when you're mistreating
16:56
your wife or call you to the carpet when you're like, you know what?
16:59
I'm thinking maybe she's not the right one.
17:01
Maybe I made a mistake.
17:02
That needs to stop.
17:03
You know, so when I think you're right, even deeper than that, I feel like maybe I'll disagree.
17:09
I feel like divorce has become a junior varsity sin to most people.
17:14
So everyone kind of has their pet sin.
17:15
It's almost always the sin that they don't have any struggle with it all.
17:18
So their pet sin might be drunkenness because they've never had a bent or a propensity to
17:24
over drink.
17:25
Maybe it's homosexuality because they're super duper heterosexual or something like that.
17:30
But I feel like it's not even discussed.
17:34
And you have these pastors all over the country that are just they're performing second marriages
17:41
for people without any regard for how these people's first marriages ended.
17:47
Because obviously if your spouses died, you can get remarried without committing adultery.
17:51
If your marriage ended because of sexual immorality or adultery, then you can get remarried.
17:56
But also Jesus draws a line on sexual immorality that if you've thought about a woman and like
18:01
lusted after her and maybe masturbated thinking about her or something like that, you have
18:06
committed adultery.
18:07
So by that standard, I guess all of us can get divorced.
18:11
I guess I'm just shocked all the time whenever we don't seemingly see the church stand up
18:15
and be like, look that you can't marry this person because you are still cleaved to someone
18:21
else.
18:22
Am I?
18:23
Does that make sense?
18:24
It does.
18:25
But I think what we have to look at is that who's wanting the divorce?
18:26
Like if I were to lust after a woman and masturbate and my wife decides that she doesn't want
18:31
to divorce me, she wants to work it out.
18:33
I can't say no, I had the sin of immorality.
18:36
So I have to divorce you.
18:37
I want to move on.
18:39
Like no, she's got to make that decision whether she wants to stay with me and be married to
18:43
me in which Christ would want that.
18:46
He would want that.
18:47
He would want me to turn to my sin and repent and work towards my marriage and hope that
18:53
my wife will stick around for that, but she does have, she has the obligation if she wanted
18:59
to to leave me in.
19:01
And I think that gets lost.
19:02
Like you're making the exact right point.
19:04
What gets lost is that what what Christ would want.
19:07
I'm not impugning motive to Christ or anything like that, but what they want is reconciliation.
19:12
Yeah.
19:13
So repent, turn towards him and reconcile.
19:14
Some of the most incredible stories that I know of about people personally is deep levels
19:19
of adultery, you know, even like children out of wedlock type of thing.
19:24
And then instead of just taking the easier but biblically defensible road of divorce,
19:29
they've rebuilt their marriage and rebuilt their life and rebuilt their families.
19:32
And so that's like, that's, that's a really good story, but yeah, I think that's a, that's
19:36
a great point.
19:37
I think there's some direct parallels we'll get to this when we start talking about the
19:40
difficulty of riches and the rich man and him not being able to give that up, same thing
19:45
with adultery and pornography and those kinds of things.
19:48
Well, people going to Moses, I was kind of reading through this and it's like, well, where
19:53
did Moses get this like, well, I'm going to weigh it and I'm going to kind of figure
19:57
out what I'm, what, what's permissible and what's not.
20:00
But going back to an earlier verse where it says, you know, he or she, they'll be joined
20:06
together and they become one flesh, like that's like the, the, the, the process.
20:10
Of consummating the marriage through sexual intercourse, right?
20:14
So, so I can see Moses getting to the point where it's like, okay, well, that's becoming
20:18
one flesh.
20:19
That's the act that you take to become one flesh with somebody else.
20:22
So if you outside of that joining, go and have sexual intercourse with someone else, you
20:27
have, you have severed the spiritual contract with your spouse and you have gone and created
20:34
a one relationship with someone else.
20:37
Right.
20:38
Like I can see the wheels turning in Moses's head, right?
20:41
Like, okay, well, that's, that's, this is what they're bound to.
20:45
Someone's chosen to sever that.
20:46
Now you're with that person.
20:48
And now I think it's okay for the person who was wronged to go get married again without
20:55
committing adultery.
20:56
Right.
20:57
Right.
20:58
And it's, so I've heard people describe as well, like premarital sex or, you know, sex
21:01
outside of marriage, you're creating soul ties with these people that you're not giving
21:05
a soul level of dedication to, right?
21:08
And so we obviously live in a time now where if you only have sex with one person in your
21:12
life that you, that doesn't, it doesn't even happen anymore.
21:15
It's like trying to find a pink and purple spotted unicorn, like you're just not going
21:19
to really find that.
21:20
But one thing that's also in here that I don't feel like it's talked about enough.
21:23
Maybe it was different and kind of how y'all grew up.
21:25
But I really didn't think about it until I was going through this and in verses five
21:28
and six, when you're looking at, you know, man, child, leave his father and his mother
21:31
and hold fast to his wife, that's leaving and cleaving, right?
21:34
So I forget what version I would be, probably from the King James or something.
21:37
And the two shall be one flesh, which you were just talking about, Dagan.
21:40
And they are no longer two, but one, what therefore God has joined together, let no
21:45
man separate.
21:46
That gets read at pretty much every single wedding, right?
21:50
My wife's a professional photographer.
21:52
She shot weddings for like a decade.
21:53
So I've been to a bunch of weddings and that gets read.
21:56
But apparently no one actually believes that.
21:59
And the reason is, is because there are so many disputes that are caused by in-laws,
22:05
by the expectations of in-laws, right?
22:08
And it's like, well, hey, our family does this.
22:11
And then the other side is like, well, our family does this.
22:13
This is what we do for Christmas.
22:14
This is what we do for Thanksgiving.
22:16
And what nobody seems to recognize or understand is like, no, no, no, no.
22:21
He didn't become part of her family.
22:24
She didn't become part of his family.
22:26
They are a family now, right?
22:28
But then you have the overzealous mother-in-law that's like, no, you'll have to live close
22:32
to us, you know, because the babies need to be at us and this is a school that they need
22:35
to go to.
22:36
And this is the sports that they're going to be allowed to play.
22:38
And this is when y'all are coming over for Easter and this is those types of things.
22:42
And you just acquiesce and acquiesce and acquiesce.
22:45
And I'll tell a quick story and then I'll shut up because I really want you guys to
22:47
get in on this.
22:48
But I was listening to a pastor that was talking about, he had some tradesmen at his house
22:51
working like a carpenter or a plumber.
22:53
I can't remember.
22:54
And he was talking about this story about this guy was married.
22:58
They had a kid, but they were having problems in their marriage.
23:01
And when they would have problems in their marriage, the wife would not talk to him.
23:04
The wife would talk to her mother, right?
23:07
So massive red flag warning signs, right?
23:10
But they had, you know, one of those big, not a nothing fight, but like a super substantive
23:13
fight, right?
23:14
And so she takes off with the kids and goes to mom and dad's house, right?
23:19
And so the husband comes home sees that his wife and children are not there and he knows
23:23
exactly where to go.
23:24
He goes to the house, who greets him at the door, the mother-in-law.
23:28
And she says, my daughter is not going to be communicating with you directly anymore.
23:34
Hands him a car to an attorney and says, you will communicate with my daughter through
23:38
this attorney if you would like to communicate with her.
23:41
And he can see his wife behind mother-in-law, right?
23:44
Like this is diabolical, right?
23:45
He can see wife behind and she's crying and she blah, blah, blah.
23:49
And he's just like not even paying attention to mother-in-law.
23:51
He's just talking to his wife through her and he's like, look, you need to come home.
23:55
We need to work this out.
23:57
And she just goes, I just can't, I just can't leave my family.
24:01
And he's like, I am your family.
24:05
Our son and daughter are your family, right?
24:08
But so many people don't think that way when they get into marriage.
24:12
They think that you have become a part of their extended family.
24:15
And man, that just made such a difference for me because we just do that naturally because
24:19
my wife and I live in a city where we don't have family.
24:22
And so we leave didn't cleaved, I guess, right?
24:25
Lower left and cleft.
24:26
Like that's just something that we did.
24:27
But from you guys' perspective, like, have you ever thought about that way?
24:30
Because I guess I've never had to because we don't have like meddling in-laws on either
24:34
side.
24:35
You know what I mean?
24:36
I mean, for us, my in-laws aren't really meddling.
24:38
My parents aren't meddling either.
24:40
I grew up in a family like I'm the oldest of five.
24:44
And so we kind of just did things.
24:46
Ah, Degan and I have something in common.
24:47
You're oldest of five, too?
24:48
I'm the oldest of five.
24:49
I'm the oldest of five.
24:50
And we just kind of had our Christmases and holidays and all that stuff together as, like,
24:51
a family.
24:52
Sometimes we go to extended family, but my wife, her side of the family, they did everything
24:55
with extended family, like aunts, uncles, second cousins, third cousins.
25:08
And I think when we got married, that was kind of an argument that we kind of had.
25:13
We still kind of have that argument because she's very much wants to be with her family
25:17
and do things with her family.
25:19
And I love her mom and dad.
25:20
Like her dad and I smoke cigars and drink whiskey and talk theology all the time.
25:23
Like, he's a great mentor of mine.
25:26
But sometimes I'm just like, you know what, I can handle your family.
25:28
I just can't handle the whole other side of the family.
25:32
And we got to work on something like with that, you know, like, I want your family to
25:36
be involved.
25:37
I want my kids to see their grandparents and their cousins and know their family.
25:39
But like, we are our own family in itself.
25:43
And so we've got to find a balance there.
25:46
So we got some arguments about that.
25:48
She had a, she was a little bit controlling early in our marriage.
25:51
My wife was about my relationship with my parents.
25:54
You know, she's thought I should be with her more.
25:56
And even when she was gone and hanging out with her friends, I go to my parents house
26:00
and she get upset with me about that.
26:01
And like, she'll look back at that now.
26:03
She's like, I was just, you know, I was just controlling and I was, you know, just married.
26:07
We didn't know the gospel back then either because we were living with each other.
26:10
You know, there's another thing you want to talk about church.
26:13
We went through our whole marriage thing within church and we were living together and they
26:18
knew it.
26:19
They never said anything to us at all, you know, and so, you know, all the environments
26:22
you're going to check.
26:23
Yeah.
26:24
You know, so we didn't get checked at all.
26:25
So earlier in our marriage, we had those problems because we didn't know what a godly
26:28
marriage was.
26:29
We'd ever read Matthew 19, you know, and so yeah, we got, we got an arguments about family,
26:33
but yeah, you got to leave and cleave from your family.
26:36
Your kids should know their family.
26:37
They should know everything, but you've got to be able to set some boundaries with family.
26:40
Right.
26:41
What about you guys?
26:42
One of the best forms of premarital counseling that we got was to be careful about having
26:48
your parents be an advisor for you when it comes to strife between your husband and wife,
26:52
between your spouse.
26:54
There have been many times when Cassidy and I have had discussions and we have intentionally
27:00
made sure that those discussions have not made it to either of our parents because we've
27:04
had, we, I know every time if I was to bring it to my mother, she's going to take my side.
27:11
Of course.
27:12
She doesn't matter what I say.
27:13
She's going to agree to agree with me and Cassidy the exact same way with her mother.
27:17
So I think that was some of the better advice that we've got because we're both so close
27:22
to our family.
27:23
Dagan, what do you think?
27:24
Yeah.
27:25
I agree.
27:26
I think expectations one, like the, not enough people are doing premarital counseling the
27:30
right way.
27:31
Right.
27:32
They're doing the easy, like I'm going to go in and we're just going to, we're going
27:35
to learn a little bit about each other, but they're not really drilling into anything.
27:38
Like, Hey, where it's like in a group.
27:40
Those was in a group, there were six couples in there.
27:42
It's like, what the heck are we doing?
27:43
Man, read a book by the parents.
27:45
Yeah.
27:46
That's right.
27:47
Yeah.
27:48
And Michelle and I did some, uh, uh, Scott, Marseille, Hinegan and, and Norman, Oklahoma
27:51
did our premarital counseling and about half the time Michelle would cry, like, you know,
27:57
and I'm, and I'm like, I'm getting thrown under the bus every time we go, like almost
28:01
like walking in saying, listen, you got to, you got to, you got to take my side this week,
28:04
right?
28:05
Like, but what looking back on it and even going through it, Scott was like, listen, these
28:09
are conversations that are worth having now.
28:13
So you know the expectations of what happens later.
28:15
Yeah.
28:16
And, and then the reality, like on, like, on fighting over Christmas and stuff, like 20
28:21
something's getting married, they know zero.
28:24
They have zero, right?
28:26
So it's like, it's hard to leave and cleave, especially when you're the wife, when you,
28:31
when you're married to this guy who, if you just had Christmas with the two of you, you're
28:34
not getting anything, right?
28:35
So half the time it's like, well, where are we going to go get good stuff, right?
28:40
But it's all about being in agreement and, um, seeking that compromise and you know,
28:45
too many people don't do that.
28:47
And the mom that you gave an example of standing in the doorway, I guarantee she was chewing
28:51
out kindergarten teachers because her kid didn't get whatever, right?
28:55
That, that'd been a pattern that girl's whole life, right?
28:58
And so, and then on the opposite end of that, I get, I got two daughters and when they get
29:04
married and like some 27 year old schmutz is like saying, no, no, no, we're not coming
29:11
to your house for whatever.
29:12
You're going to want to kill him.
29:13
That's right.
29:14
Like I get it.
29:15
Yeah.
29:16
But at the same time, like, like I want I as a parent want to be in a position.
29:21
So it's, it's, it's all of that.
29:23
It's, Hey, here's, here's, you're going to get married.
29:26
You guys need to go find out what it's going to be like, your expectations for each other.
29:30
It's almost good to include parents on premarital counseling sessions to say, have somebody
29:35
look at the mom and dad of each side and say, here's your new role.
29:39
Right.
29:40
And it's like, Hey, know your role, show your mouth.
29:41
And so like at a certain point, it's like, if I ask you for advice, it's because I want
29:46
your advice.
29:47
But another thing here, like, you know, this isn't indicative of every guy, but a lot of
29:50
guys are okay with the, at least the concept of protecting their spouse.
29:54
Maybe they don't know anything about firearms or fighting, but they're at least okay with
29:57
the concept of protecting their spouse physically.
29:59
But one thing they don't do is protect their spouse when they talk to their friends or
30:04
family.
30:05
Right.
30:06
So going back to what you're talking about, Adam.
30:07
Uh, so Kelsey does, this is going to be shocking to you guys and everyone in my audience.
30:10
I can get kind of fired up, I get kind of angry and it's always about super righteous
30:14
things and it's never sinful, but every now and then, you know, I'll cross the line and
30:19
do something stupid or say something dumb or like overreact or something like that.
30:23
And Kelsey would be well within her rights to go to her mother who is lovely.
30:28
She is a lovely woman and complain about me, specifically something that I did, but she
30:34
won't do it.
30:36
She won't do it with her best friends.
30:39
I will say or do something around her family or around her friends that was over the line
30:44
or too rough or to something like that.
30:46
And she will take my side and say, yeah, he's, he's just kind of tired.
30:50
He's kind of stressed out right now.
30:52
Like, you know, everything's fine, like that type of thing.
30:55
That is practicing protecting your spouse in a different way because you're right, Adam,
31:00
your parents should take or are probably going to take your side every single time to the
31:05
detriment of your spouse, because they're just going to be like, Oh, God, I knew she
31:08
was a diva, you know, or there's something like that, they're going to be able to confirm
31:13
their prior ideas or presuppositions about your spouse if you allow that to happen.
31:18
And then if you do have one of those knockdown drag out, I'm going to sleep in my parents'
31:21
house type conversations.
31:23
Do you not think all those things that you dropped on your parents about your spouse
31:26
is going to come up?
31:27
Like, it's just you literally created fodder for that situation.
31:30
I want to know whose parents have their side.
31:32
My parents never have my side.
31:33
Oh, really?
31:34
Oh, man, my dad's like, man up.
31:36
Is it Ryan?
31:37
You're being stupid again, my mom's like, I can hear you come from honey, but this is
31:41
what she's dealing with.
31:42
Oh, and so I'm just like, Oh, man.
31:44
So actually, like, I will say we don't talk to each other's family is about each other
31:49
like that.
31:50
We go to her dad or her mom about certain certain things.
31:54
And that's fine.
31:55
I mean, as long as it's not gossip and it's coming about to like bring somebody down.
31:59
Right.
32:00
Exactly.
32:01
All right.
32:02
We're never going to get through Matthew 19 if I don't get us going.
32:04
So we need to keep going here.
32:05
But before I do, I did just want to remind you guys that we have partnered up with Crossway
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33:13
So Ryan, if you wouldn't mind hit versus 10 through 12, we're going to talk a little
33:17
bit about that.
33:18
So 10 through 12 of Matthew 19, the disciples said to him, if such is the case of a man
33:23
with his wife, it is better not to marry.
33:26
But he said to them, not everyone can receive this saying, but only those whom it is given
33:33
where there are unics who have been so from birth, and there, and there are unics who have
33:38
been made unics by men, and there are unics who have been made themselves unics or the
33:45
sake of the kingdom of heaven, let the one who is able to receive it, receive it.
33:50
So we can, we can break down a lot of things here, but just to kind of keep the flow going
33:53
because we have more to discuss, I want to discuss this one sentence or one phrase in
33:58
verse 10.
33:59
This is the disciples saying, if such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better
34:04
not to marry.
34:05
I feel like young men believe this hook line and sinker.
34:10
Now, they don't believe it because the disciples believed it.
34:13
They believed it because the culture has told them to believe it.
34:15
Hey, man, don't get married.
34:17
She's going to take half your stuff.
34:18
Hey, man, don't don't get married.
34:20
Definitely don't have, you know, a kid with this chick, because then you're going to be
34:24
paying out the but for child support and potentially alimony, man, just, just do you like, you
34:28
know, get some condoms and have a great time and like this, this idea of being this lifetime
34:33
bachelor and just sleeping with women and driving sports cars and going on vacations and just
34:38
doing all these different things.
34:39
Man, it looks really dope on Instagram.
34:41
It really does, but then it's completely vapid and I feel like young men, especially they
34:47
follow.
34:48
I can't remember the name of that guy.
34:49
I thought it was going to come to me.
34:51
The guy that he was arrested in Romania for like pimping women and all that.
34:57
[inaudible] Bureau talked about him a bunch.
34:59
Anyway, it's going to come to me.
35:00
Everybody in the audience is screaming right now.
35:01
I know you're talking about.
35:02
But there are young men that are looking at men like that, leading that Ferrari and sexy
35:07
model lifestyle, right?
35:09
And there, that's what they're going for.
35:11
And they're not looking for a woman that they can settle down with the one woman that they're
35:15
going to have sex with for the rest of their life.
35:17
And they're, they're just taking this idea that I'm just going to be single.
35:21
The idea of marriage, man, it's too hard, like we don't do hard things anymore.
35:24
Like we look to get the easy button.
35:26
We look to get the fast track to everything that we do in life.
35:29
And so so many young men that I talked to are just terrified of getting married and for
35:34
good reason because of what we were talking about earlier, divorce rates in the church.
35:37
You're like, Hey man, it's going to be different.
35:39
And then it's like, uh, I can read, I can read a chart and this shows me that it's not.
35:43
So so give me, give me some feedback on that because like it's so depressing to see that
35:47
2000 years ago, this is where some of the apostles defaulted to.
35:51
And here we are.
35:52
And it's not any different.
35:53
Think about the car screeching moment where verse three, it starts with the Pharisees.
35:58
Jesus is answering the Pharisees and then we get to verse 10 and who's the first person
36:03
that talks when Jesus is done.
36:05
The disciples are like, uh, what?
36:07
Yeah.
36:08
You know, it starts with the Pharisees and then here comes the disciples saying, uh, maybe
36:12
we shouldn't get married if that's the case and we've already talked about this, but some
36:15
of it has the to do with the cultural issues where a man could have divorced a woman at
36:20
any time then.
36:21
And that was a one way street, right?
36:23
Way street.
36:24
The man had the power of the woman didn't and I think the disciples at this time were used
36:28
to that.
36:29
That's what they were accustomed to.
36:30
And so they feel like they have to chime in when Jesus is trying to answer the Pharisees.
36:35
Here comes his own followers to say, wait a minute.
36:37
Yeah.
36:38
What they're saying actually makes sense, Jesus, right?
36:40
Well, again, this is a Roman context as well where if you're not familiar, a head of household
36:44
in Rome, you had the power of life and death over your entire family, right?
36:48
So if your wife did something that displeased you, you could kill her and you would not
36:52
be arrested or put in jail for murder, like you had complete control and say over the
36:58
life of your family, if your two year old just was being too ridiculous, like you could
37:02
literally kill them or put them out to where the elements would kill them or something
37:07
like that.
37:08
This was common practice back then as well.
37:09
That's another thing that kind of undergirds a story like this.
37:12
Well, and Jesus is answering them.
37:15
They're saying, hey, if this is the case, then it's better to not get married.
37:18
And instead of Jesus being like, yeah, you're right, that's like being married is tough.
37:23
What can I say?
37:24
You know, he kind of contrasts it and it's like, he warns them.
37:27
It's like, well, yeah, you know what, like, married is for some people, single is for
37:32
some people too.
37:33
Single is not for everybody.
37:34
You can have just as much trouble being single if God meant for you to get married and you're
37:39
not, you know what I mean?
37:40
Like, so he's, I think he's kind of telling on both sides, it's like, you're made for
37:44
a reason and that's what you need to go with and stick with and they're, and I think they're
37:50
just hearing all the negatives thinking, well, I don't want to do that.
37:53
But I think Jesus basically came in was like, you know, talking about celibacy and all that.
37:58
And I can see the disciples going, oh, that sounds bad too.
38:03
All these options are terrible.
38:04
Like, what are, what are we going to do here?
38:06
Is this one of those chapters that I just whispers Jesus is just whispering about sexual
38:10
removal, gosh, all these people, these prominent pastors, they're just like, oh, you know,
38:15
God only whispers about certain things.
38:17
That's, that's the thing we have to look at, you know, if you're just taking this one verse
38:21
of 10 and it's just better not to marry, we take it to modern times, someone's just like,
38:26
I'm not going to get married.
38:27
I'm just going to go out there and slay things, you know, I don't know if that's right, turn
38:31
be used.
38:32
But, you know, I think we all get it, but, but Christ is saying like when he talks about
38:35
the Unix here, he's not talking about somebody who doesn't have testicles, he's talking about
38:40
somebody who's, who's taken a vow of celibacy is chosen not to have sexual, um, half sex
38:48
period.
38:49
They're, they've taken that and to do that, I mean, for me to do that, that would be very
38:53
hard, you know, to take a vow of celibacy, you know, I mean, that's just one of those
38:59
things that we have to look at here is if we're going to look at, at where we're at,
39:03
you know, personally in our lives that we were going to take that vow of singleness,
39:06
you can't go out there and have sex all the time.
39:09
You're taking a vow saying, if you're a Christian, you're taking a vow and saying, you know,
39:13
I'm going to leave a, a live a life that a single life of celibacy.
39:16
And so I think that's even harder.
39:18
That's harder to do than being married.
39:20
And so you have to have some special, you know, how do you want to say it?
39:25
I mean, God's like a special calling.
39:27
Yeah.
39:28
Thank you.
39:29
You have to have a special calling for that because it would be very hard.
39:31
Very few people actually have that calling.
39:33
And so people that like I got an email from a guy said, my friend said he's going to stop
39:37
working out because he wants to spend more time in Bible study.
39:40
And I was like, what it sounds like is your friend is fat and wants an excuse to stay
39:43
that way because it's like there's time to do that.
39:46
That dude better become the second coming a Billy Graham or become like some sort of
39:50
deep theologian because at the end of the day, it sounds like this is just something I don't
39:54
want to do.
39:55
And so I'm going to make it seem holy that I'm not doing it.
39:56
So some people are like, I'm taking a vow of singleness and I was like, you don't get
40:00
to make that call.
40:01
Is God calling you to a life of singleness?
40:03
Because Paul was the apostle Paul was single.
40:06
Some of these missionaries are single because they're going to places where they're going
40:10
to chop the heads off of your kids and rape your wife before they kill her too.
40:13
And like it's, you know, they're someone's going to go there solo and so most of these
40:16
men are not called to that.
40:17
By the way, Andrew Tate is who I was thinking of earlier.
40:20
He's kind of that, that example of that guy where he says some things that are right,
40:24
but Andrew Tate is long on description, but he's very short when it comes to giving very
40:30
sound advice as to what to do because his solution to everything is make money, be a
40:35
baller, sleigh hose, like that, like that's his answer to everything.
40:38
Came from somewhere.
40:39
Right.
40:40
That's right.
40:41
Andrew Tate.
40:42
So see, we got a guy here.
40:43
We have a disciple of Andrew Tate.
40:44
I am not a disciple of Andrew Tate.
40:45
I do not know who that guy is.
40:46
He sounds like a piece of trash.
40:48
Well, he pretty much is.
40:49
And so that's kind of where you get to with that.
40:51
Okay.
40:52
So let's keep this moving along.
40:54
Dagan, if you could read 13 through 15.
40:58
And children were brought to Jesus so that he might place his hands on them and pray, but
41:03
the disciples reprimanded them.
41:05
But he said, leave the children alone and do not forbid them from coming to me for the
41:09
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these after placing his hands on them.
41:14
He went on from there.
41:15
So in what version was that reading?
41:17
The Amplified.
41:18
Okay.
41:19
Amplified NIV ESV.
41:20
So we got all the basis covered here.
41:21
You can read from the nazby for the rest of the time.
41:23
Okay.
41:24
All right.
41:25
So we're going to anybody want to read from the message?
41:26
No.
41:27
Anyteggers?
41:28
No.
41:29
All right.
41:30
Good.
41:31
So the thing about this for me, I don't want to spend a lot of time with this because I
41:32
the rich young ruler, but I feel like I'm not so naive and cock sure as to believe that
41:40
any time these disciples make a really stupid, obvious mistake that I wouldn't have been
41:43
right there with them, making the same exact mistake.
41:46
That's why I love Peter so much because he's such a moron and I'm just like, me too, man.
41:50
Peter, you're my boy.
41:51
Like it's just, that's kind of how it goes.
41:53
And if Jesus were being bothered, in my opinion, by a bunch of kids, I'd be like, it's someone
41:58
get these freaking kids out of here, man, like they're bothering the son of God.
42:02
And it's just what a rebuke, what a soft but loving rebuke from Jesus to be like, I mean,
42:08
let the kids come to me.
42:09
And because I don't really have the heart for kids, you know, service and like, Hey,
42:14
let's go volunteer in the kids department or something like that.
42:16
But this is just a good reminder that kids might be annoying, but Jesus likes them.
42:20
So maybe I should try to like them too.
42:22
I love that he used kids because I think most people can correlate that to obviously kids
42:26
should have the chance to be close to Jesus.
42:28
But I think it was also used to it.
42:31
He didn't mean just children.
42:33
It's the less of these.
42:34
It could be somebody who's unclean.
42:37
It could be somebody who's a Gentile, somebody who's not a believer, you know, it doesn't
42:42
have to just be children for sure.
42:44
I like it when he says or two or two such belongs to kingdom of heaven.
42:49
You know, children are, you know, they're, they're young, they're not able to exercise
42:54
their personal faith and Christ looks at them and says that they make up the kingdom
42:58
of heaven.
42:59
And I think it just kind of shows God's mercy, God's mercy for those who, you know, even
43:03
though we are, are a part of sin, not all of us are culpable at sin at that, at their
43:09
age.
43:10
And so I think it just shows his mercy and God's mercy towards towards children.
43:13
I think it's pretty awesome.
43:14
Absolutely.
43:15
Take anything to add on kids.
43:17
Uh, yeah, I just, I see there's a metaphorical kind of thing here and then there's a literal
43:22
where the metaphorical is, you know, believers need to have total trust and dependence on
43:29
their heavenly father, just like kids do on their parents, right?
43:32
So there's that like, Hey, this is, this is kind of a metaphor here.
43:35
And then there's the literal, like kind of Ryan alluded to, I believe you're talking
43:39
about like almost like the age of accountability where it's like, yeah, it's like, Hey, hey,
43:43
these, these kids are in a better spot than you are like, if these, if everybody died
43:48
today, these kids are definitely coming with me, right?
43:50
Yeah.
43:51
And I always have to check myself to be like, dude, you're assuming the judgment seat of
43:59
God, you're more and so it's like, dude, you're assuming the judgment seat of God.
44:21
And so it's like, I have my own little Peter moment.
44:24
And that's, uh, that's just something I try to remind myself as well because we don't
44:27
know the age of accountability, like, uh, it terrifies me to think, you know, I've got
44:31
a three year old and a one year old and what if Jesus comes back and these little idiots
44:34
that didn't have time to like figure out what sin was and like, what's going to happen?
44:38
But it's not up to me.
44:39
So last word on this.
44:40
Yeah.
44:41
I think it's great to look.
44:42
Like I look at my eight year old and he knows some of the things that he does is sinful
44:46
and he knows that he needs sanctification in that.
44:48
But there's also some sense that he doesn't even know about yet.
44:51
So, you know, the age of accountability, it's a tough one to look at.
44:54
But, you know, once you're filled, he's filled.
44:56
He's a Christian.
44:57
He believes.
44:58
And, um, there we go.
44:59
Thank you.
45:00
He's a Christian.
45:01
Just talk.
45:02
There we go.
45:03
Yeah.
45:04
There we go.
45:05
And, you know, he knows right from wrong and what Christ would expect from him.
45:08
Right.
45:09
So that's good.
45:10
And you and I have had a lot of conversations about that.
45:11
Cause we've talked about on the show, like when, when your eldest was, uh, baptized, like
45:15
we were sitting right next to each other, how big and cool of the thing that was.
45:18
So I got a mint.
45:19
Remember just to keep checking myself when it comes to that, uh, Adam, let's get into
45:22
the rich young ruler.
45:23
So let's read verses 16 through 22 verse 16.
45:28
Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked teacher, what good thing must I do to get
45:32
eternal life?
45:33
Why do you ask me about what is good?
45:35
Jesus replied.
45:36
There's only one who is good.
45:38
If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.
45:40
Which ones he inquired Jesus replied, you shall not murder.
45:44
You shall not commit adultery.
45:46
You shall not steal.
45:47
You shall not give false testimony.
45:49
Honor your father and mother and love your neighbor as yourself.
45:52
All these I have kept, the young man said, what do, what do I still lack?
45:57
Jesus answered, if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor
46:02
and you will have treasure in heaven.
46:04
Then come follow me.
46:06
When the young man heard this, he went away sad because he had great wealth.
46:10
So one thing I wanted to talk about from the beginning is, uh, whenever he's like, Hey,
46:15
man, I kept all those commandments that I've so clearly broken over and over because it's
46:21
impossible not to.
46:22
Hey, man.
46:23
Yeah, yeah.
46:24
Jesus.
46:25
Cool.
46:26
I did all that.
46:27
What else do I need to do?
46:28
And interesting here, Jesus doesn't immediately call him out for obviously being a liar or
46:32
being at least aloof to his, his own, uh, his own sin.
46:36
He immediately goes to the next thing that he knows will expose him because he's got
46:42
a lot of stuff, because some people will read this and take the wrong thing, which is like,
46:46
Oh, if you're rich and you sell your possessions, you'll, you'll get to go to heaven.
46:50
That's obviously not what he's saying here.
46:52
Like you're not going to gain salvation, but it's going to expose him to a sin that he has
46:56
not reckoned with before.
46:57
Cause you can tell by his reaction, he hasn't reckoned with this ever because in this day
47:02
in this Jewish context, and then I'll let you guys flow on this, in this Jewish context,
47:06
if you had a lot of money and had a lot of influence, that means you were blessed.
47:10
That mean God, you know, God loved you or your parents were awesome.
47:14
And they passed on generational blessings to you.
47:16
And like if you were destitute and poor and crippled, that meant you and or people in
47:21
your family line were ratchet.
47:23
And so God was basically punishing you for being so ratchet.
47:27
And so you can just tell this guy just walked around in constant opulence.
47:31
And then all of a sudden Jesus just smacked him across the face with his own ignorance.
47:35
I mean, I love this little story and that's only part of it.
47:38
People get into the rest of it here, but I just I just wanted to pause and just talk
47:40
about that something.
47:41
Well, I love that.
47:43
I mean, you talk, he comes up, you know, really cocky, obviously, you know, like you
47:48
say that and Jesus like, oh, you got to keep the commandments and Jesus like doesn't just
47:52
say you keep the commandments.
47:53
Jesus like names them.
47:54
Yeah.
47:55
Let's list them off.
47:56
You got to do this.
47:57
And you got to do this.
47:58
And the guy's like, yeah, I've done all that.
47:59
And then what Jesus goes and picks on him for is his wealth is because it's like wealth
48:03
has become your God, you know, you shall have no other gods before me.
48:07
Health was this dude was this dude's God.
48:09
And so what Jesus response was was, bro, not only have you kept them all, but like you
48:14
didn't even keep the first one, like I just named them all and you said you kept them
48:17
all.
48:18
And let's okay.
48:19
So it's like, what else could Jesus have just gone down the list with this dude of this
48:23
and this and this and breaking them all?
48:26
I just thought that was hilarious.
48:27
It was like, you know, like, you know, he just picks the first one and the dude was like,
48:30
I'm out.
48:31
I can't do it.
48:32
Do not pass.
48:33
Go.
48:34
Isn't it interesting that it was primarily deeds and works related.
48:36
He's looking for a list.
48:37
He's looking for, I've done all of these things, but there's got to be more and there's got
48:41
to be more.
48:42
What other things can I check off my list in order to be worthy?
48:45
And there there is no other thing because that's not how you become saved.
48:49
Well, and that's what you and I and your wife Cassidy have talked about that before because
48:53
we are list makers.
48:54
I'm the type of guy that will make it to do list and I will have done something already,
48:58
but I will write it on the to do list just so I can draw a box and write a check mark
49:02
in it.
49:03
So that's how much I like completing and doing things.
49:06
And so the type a doers, like they love lists of things to do and they will disregard things
49:12
that they think have already been checked off.
49:14
So like to dig in what you were saying, he's listening these things off that you have not
49:18
check these boxes, but he's skipped it because he's like, Oh, no, no, no, I already got it.
49:22
Like imagine because you're you're a CPA.
49:25
Imagine a brand new CPA being like, Oh, I've done a tax return before.
49:28
This next one's got to be just like the last one, right?
49:30
So I'm just going to buzz right through it.
49:31
Like what a silly assumption, but this guy's making the exact thing.
49:35
All right.
49:36
Let's hit the rest of the store.
49:37
Or did you have something out on that?
49:38
I was just thinking, you know, what he's missing here is a heart change.
49:42
Um, I mean, Christ talks about it in the sermon on the mount, you know, everything has to
49:46
do with the heart and the mind and where you're going in that realm and like you guys just
49:50
said, he's doing the lists and those lists, you know, it's just works and he has no heart
49:56
change because you just actually tries to go after his heart by telling him to give his
50:00
possessions to the poor and follow him.
50:02
But is he truly following God because Jesus is God and so no, and in verse 21, he's Jesus
50:09
says, if you want to be perfect, yeah, crushing him with that.
50:13
He's like, Oh, okay.
50:14
So you can see what he does.
50:15
Yeah.
50:16
Yeah.
50:17
He doesn't want to be perfect.
50:18
He wants to be perfect.
50:19
And he says, why do you call me perfect?
50:20
Right.
50:21
Only God is perfect.
50:22
Exactly.
50:23
He's totally missing it.
50:24
Yeah.
50:25
Well, if you want to be perfect, this is what you got to do.
50:26
And it's impossible.
50:27
He continues that it's it's he doesn't say go give your stuff to the poor.
50:31
He says, go sell all this junk and give the money to the poor, just immediately diminishing
50:36
the value of this dude's stuff, right?
50:39
Like they don't want your stuff.
50:40
They want the money.
50:41
Go sell your stuff and give the money away because that that's more valuable.
50:44
And also, God doesn't want your stuff for your money.
50:46
He wants you.
50:47
He wants every last bit of you.
50:49
And so he's trying to burn off all those other pieces that are unnecessary.
50:53
Remember where Jesus is heading, where he's going, he's going to the cross back to Jerusalem
50:56
right, going to the cross.
50:58
So you are not saved by works.
51:00
You are saved by what he's about to do.
51:02
Yep.
51:03
And so I think, well, let's just go ahead and close out.
51:06
So Ryan, if you would hit versus 23 through the end, which would be verse 30, and Jesus
51:10
said to his disciples, truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter
51:15
the kingdom of heaven.
51:16
And again, I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle and
51:21
for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
51:23
When disciples heard this, they were astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
51:28
And looking at them, Jesus said to them, "With people, this is impossible, but with God,
51:33
all things are possible."
51:34
I think that's the best time I ever read on this program.
51:37
Dude, that was nice.
51:39
I feel like Matt Graspire.
51:40
I just entered my body.
51:41
Did you go through the end of verse 30?
51:43
Oh, is it through the end of verse 30?
51:46
Oh, you were so sure of yourself.
51:50
Like this, Sean Watson going in for a touchdown and throwing it right behind the line.
51:54
I thought you were going to talk about the fact that he was getting massages on all parts
51:57
of his body.
51:58
But yeah, you could keep up.
51:59
I even said the wrong guy.
52:00
He said even to Sean Watson.
52:01
Listen, you better not be on this deal.
52:03
That's what I say.
52:04
Don Beebe, the greatest receiver in the history of the Buffalo Bills, Leon led us celebrating
52:09
on his way to the end zone.
52:10
So way to go, Leon, let you're going to screw up so much in this last part, read through
52:16
the end.
52:17
Come on, don't mess up.
52:19
And Peter responded to him and Peter responded and said to him, "Behold, we have left everything
52:24
and followed you.
52:25
What then will there be for us?"
52:28
And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that you have followed me and every generation
52:35
got in my head when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne.
52:39
You also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel, and everyone
52:43
who has left houses or brothers or sisters or fathers or mother or children or farms
52:49
on account of my name will receive many times as much and will inherit eternal life.
52:54
But many who are first will be last and the last first."
52:58
All right.
52:59
So a few things to point out.
53:00
Verse 24, the reason why it uses a camel is this is the largest animal in Palestine at
53:04
the time.
53:05
Like this, this is like the largest animal any of these people may have ever seen.
53:08
That's why they're using the example.
53:09
So question for the literalists, do you think Jesus was talking about an actual needle and
53:14
an actual camel?
53:15
No?
53:16
Okay.
53:17
Moving on.
53:18
So when you see in verse 25, when you see the disciples and how they respond, well then
53:20
who can be saved?
53:21
This implies what I already talked about, which is that the disciples believe like everyone
53:25
else, that if you were rich, you were already blessed.
53:27
Like you already had salvation because God favored you.
53:30
So this is very, very clear.
53:32
But for as we close out Matthew 19, I really want to focus in on verse 30, but many who
53:38
are first will be last and the last first guys, this has got to be a terrifying scripture
53:45
for well off Americans.
53:47
And the reason is, is because we live in a city that I talk about a lot.
53:51
This is like highest cost of living in the state of Oklahoma, highest per capita income.
53:57
Adam, you obviously you deal with people's money all day, every day, you know, exactly
54:00
what people make and where they put their money and all these different things.
54:04
And there are a lot of examples of rich people used as examples in the Bible as, hey, they
54:10
got their blessings here.
54:11
And so they got to live in opulence here and it's not going to necessarily be the same
54:14
for them in the next life.
54:17
And there are a lot of people that think because they've bought into the lie 2000 years later,
54:22
that because they're so blessed that God favors them, and perhaps they're not really a sinner.
54:29
Like that's kind of where it ends up going is like, yeah, if I was really that bad, yeah,
54:33
I'm a workaholic.
54:34
Yeah.
54:35
You know, I kind of drink too much.
54:36
Or yeah, you know, I smoke weed every now and then.
54:37
Or yeah, I've got gone to Vegas and kind of got crazy and all those types of things.
54:41
But look at how good my business is doing.
54:44
Look at the owes I'm adding on to the end of my net worth.
54:46
Look at all the stuff, look at all the stuff that I own and all the cars and all the investment
54:50
properties and all that.
54:51
And then it's just like those things in and of itself are not bad.
54:55
Obviously, they're not sinful because God is blessing you with things that you can leverage
55:00
for his glory, but imagine that this rich young ruler, it's good.
55:05
It's possible to assume that he wasn't very generous because just the thought of selling
55:10
all that he had to get rid of it to give to the poor, like absolutely crushed him.
55:14
And we don't know how that story ended up, right?
55:16
Like we don't get an update on the rich young ruler sometime in acts, right?
55:19
Like we don't know what happened to this guy.
55:21
But I will say when I read verse 30, it was the first time where I was like, oh, for people
55:25
that have a lot, like that's something that they're really going to have to reckon with
55:29
and figure out where they land on it.
55:30
I don't think it's really comes down to you having what you have.
55:33
I think it comes down to people who were blessed at this time thought they were blessed because
55:37
their family was holding to the law and their blessings were being given because they were
55:43
so devout and holy.
55:45
So that's like me looking upon a sinner, like, you know, I that's like me saying, like, man,
55:51
I've done all these good things.
55:52
I'm doing all these great things.
55:53
I believe I read my Bible every day.
55:55
I go to church every Sunday, but look at this guy over here.
55:58
He says he's a Christian, but he's not doing this, this, this and this and I'm doing all
56:02
this, this and God owes me now.
56:04
Yeah.
56:05
And so, you know, I want to be the first one in there and like, no, you think you're going
56:07
to be first, but you're probably going to be last.
56:09
Like it's, I think it's bringing some humbleness to these Pharisees and these Sadducees and
56:14
these rich people who think that because they're blessed means that they're holy.
56:18
Well, and you just said it, right?
56:20
Ode.
56:21
It's transitions the mindset from these are blessings to these are owed me.
56:26
Yeah.
56:27
Right.
56:28
And I can't imagine God being more frustrated with somebody who he has blessed who transitions
56:32
to feeling like this, like, I'm entitled to this.
56:36
I manifest.
56:37
Well, and like you're entitled to a certain level of opulence in your personal life, because
56:41
again, I forget exactly what the statistic is, but I think if you make 35 grand a year,
56:45
you're in the top 1/10th of 1% of wage earners on the planet, but we don't think about our
56:50
wealth in America as compared to somebody in Zimbabwe, we think about ourselves in reference
56:54
to our neighbor or that person that's in our Sunday school.
56:57
And then we're always constantly striving for what the other person has.
57:01
Similarly, how I mentioned earlier where the Pharisees were posing a question to Jesus,
57:05
Jesus answered it.
57:06
And then there was a wheel screeching moment where the disciples piped up.
57:09
It's the same thing in verse 25 when Jesus talks about the camel can't go through the
57:14
needle and in verse 25, the disciples, when they heard this, they were greatly astonished
57:18
and asked, who can then be saved?
57:21
Because that's the way the culture was, they're completely shocked and astonished.
57:25
How is this going to be possible?
57:27
So it's a little bit reassuring to me in verse 26 that Jesus says, with man, this is impossible.
57:33
It is.
57:34
It's not possible, but with God, all things are possible.
57:36
So we can't do it ourselves.
57:39
When isn't it so interesting, these guys have been walking around with Jesus for years
57:42
at this point.
57:43
And again, I'm not saying I'm better or smarter than disciples.
57:46
I'm just as dumb if not dumber.
57:49
They're just not getting it.
57:51
And it's just like, well, and again, it's easy to connect the dots looking backwards.
57:54
You get some possible connect them as you're walking forwards.
57:57
But my goodness, how many examples have we just had in the book of Matthew where it's
58:00
like, these dudes are missing the thread.
58:03
They're missing the entire thing, you know, later on in Matthew, we see times where Jesus
58:07
like, no, I got to die, but don't worry, I'll come back like three days later.
58:11
And these dopes didn't even remember that like three days later, they weren't even looking
58:14
for them.
58:15
And you mentioned your homeboy, Peter, you know, right after Jesus gives this reassuring
58:19
message that all things are possible, Peter decided to blurt out, well, we've left everything
58:23
to follow you.
58:24
What about us?
58:25
Come on, man.
58:26
What do I, when do I get mine?
58:27
Wow.
58:28
Yeah.
58:29
What do I get what's owed?
58:30
I think one thing we have to look at is like, you know, the culture and the time, you
58:32
know, we got to look at what the Bible actually calls for us to do, like what God's law is
58:38
and then what these Pharisees and Sadducees were adding to that law at that time.
58:42
So I think there was a lot of confusion because more, you know, like we talked about in past
58:46
episodes, my, my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
58:52
And there's probably still the mindset of that heavy yoke.
58:56
Yeah.
58:57
And again, just a reminder to everyone how dumb I am.
58:59
It wasn't until about five seconds ago that I thought that was yolked like egg yolk.
59:04
So again, when y'all think that I got it going on and I, I say nice things out of my
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face, I'll remember that I thought he was talking about eggs until like this year, I was this
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many years old whenever I realized that that was it.
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But guys, great discussion on Matthew 19, but we're going to have to leave it there.
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Guys, next week, come back here, ready to go, ready to talk about Matthew 20.
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So make sure you're red up before we let you go.
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We are going to do a quick resilience boost.
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Adam Daunton life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
59:29
for just spiritual mental and physical resilience.
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So in the show notes today, I've got a link to everything that you need to get that stack
59:35
of amazing books right there, the forging table starter set.
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And again, guys, we're a donation base ministry.
59:39
And so the overwhelming majority of how we were able to keep the lights on, the way that
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we're able to do stuff like this is because we have individuals stepping up on a one time
59:47
or mainly on a month to month basis.
59:49
And they're helping us keep our operations going, keep the lights on and keep us pushing
59:53
so that we can equipment around the globe to push back darkness.
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So hop on board and be a part of the team.
59:58
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
1:00:00
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
1:00:03
star review.
1:00:04
If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to
1:00:07
info@undaunton.life, that's I N F O at undaunton.life, follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
1:00:14
and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content
1:00:17
like this coming your way.
1:00:19
Just go to www.undaunton.life.
1:00:21
And also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our
1:00:25
content.
1:00:26
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album
1:00:30
on face down records.
1:00:32
The links are in the description.
1:00:33
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:00:35
Remember keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:00:41
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.