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This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast, I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:58
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01
forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:04
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:08
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
1:11
with us.
1:12
We've got a bunch of veterans here, but a new crew, kind of a new mixture of crew here,
1:15
we got Zack, we got Winkler, we got Caleb, but guys, there's something that we need
1:19
to celebrate.
1:20
Okay.
1:21
Now there are moments in a man's life, you know, the first, when he moves out, his first
1:26
home run, first time he has sex with his wife, not like, like normally, or maybe what our
1:31
buddy Matt Grasmire of the Forging Table, he got to baptize his son this morning.
1:36
So congratulations, what an incredible, incredible thing.
1:39
And maybe we can debate whether or not you should ever let anyone baptize your children
1:43
other than you.
1:44
Maybe we can go there, but Caleb, my man Caleb walks in this morning with a Bible with his
1:50
name on it.
1:51
For those of you watching out there in TV land, it actually says your name on it.
1:54
And if you haven't been listening to Forging Table for any length of time, every other
1:57
time you've been on this show, you've had a wife that said, Shannon Martin on the front
2:02
of your Bible.
2:03
And so what was the deal like?
2:05
Did you just get this?
2:06
Like did we finally like this seems like a big deal?
2:08
Oh, it's not actually this, but this Bible is quite old, but it's tiny.
2:13
So I like her larger Bible.
2:15
I'm going to try and avoid the, I'm going to try to avoid the obvious here and say that
2:19
it does kind of look like a woman's handbag.
2:21
Yeah, it does have like a latch on it and it's very, what is this maroon?
2:26
Yeah.
2:27
Yeah.
2:28
Does it come with a shoulder strap?
2:29
That's what I want to know.
2:30
It is very cute.
2:31
But the thing is, is for today, you're going to have to read all of the Bible passages out
2:37
of the same thing.
2:38
I don't have a magnifying glass.
2:40
I don't have anything.
2:41
Are you, are you prepared to do that?
2:42
Okay.
2:43
Does everyone at the table have a Bible with their name on it?
2:45
That's like real people sized?
2:46
I don't think mine has, has my name written in it, but I don't think yeah.
2:51
Okay, Zach, you got on it.
2:53
You got, you got it like a fancy Bible.
2:55
Oh, you got one in front of him.
2:56
Okay.
2:57
So we've got the full gamut really covered here today.
2:59
So congratulations.
3:00
Okay.
3:01
I got that coming.
3:02
It's on the way.
3:03
But what, what people out there that are just listening to this, they don't know what
3:05
that is.
3:06
So how about you tell them what that is a crossway journal Bible.
3:09
Guys, who just got to tell you these journal Bibles are amazing.
3:12
Yes, they are.
3:13
Because like, again, so I don't know what it was like for you.
3:16
Guys, but like, even in college, I could not take a highlighter to my textbooks.
3:20
I could not write in it because that affected the resell value or whatever when you sold
3:24
it back to the bookstore for, you know, pennies, whenever you had to pay like $800 for like
3:29
the intro to psychology book.
3:31
But these, it literally has every single book of the Bible on the left side scripture on
3:35
the right side, just blank journal pages.
3:37
And I just bleed ink all over these things.
3:40
I think most of y'all like you bought the set.
3:43
Matt has a set.
3:44
Ryan has set.
3:45
What a set.
3:46
Why are you the only one?
3:47
Why do you have to just stick out and be like the only guy that doesn't do the thing?
3:50
Come on, do the thing.
3:51
I'll tell you why.
3:52
I used to take handwritten notes like that because I don't like to put anything in my
3:56
Bible either.
3:57
But in traveling, I had my briefcase stolen with all my notes, so I went digital because
4:02
I lost everything.
4:04
So I'm a hundred percent digital.
4:05
That's why.
4:06
Okay.
4:07
So whenever like society falls and the grid goes to crap, you're going to lose your notes
4:10
again.
4:11
I'll start writing in my Bible at that point.
4:12
Okay.
4:13
All right.
4:14
Sounds good.
4:15
I sold a handful of those down.
4:16
It should reach out.
4:17
Okay.
4:18
Well, you know, we'll actually do our little crossway commercial here at the beginning,
4:21
even though it's not actually a commercial because again, guys, we have partnered with
4:25
crossway and we don't get a dime for this setup.
4:28
We just wanted to do something that would be of major benefit to you guys.
4:32
And so a lot of people have reached out, Hey, I want to start my own forging table.
4:35
What do I need to do?
4:36
What do I need to buy?
4:37
And so I worked with Crossway to put together that set right there at the end of the table.
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And so you guys can check that out.
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That is the forging table starter set and includes five books and they are the ESV men's study
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Bible knew this year, the book of Romans scriptural scripture journal edition.
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So it's like this.
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It's like these little journal Bibles, but it actually has the ESV study Bible notes.
4:57
The commentary there at the bottom.
4:59
There's also a book called the new morning mercies by Paul David trip.
5:02
That's a devotional.
5:04
The beauty and power of biblical exposition by Douglas O'Donnell.
5:07
He's been on the show before, but this gives you an idea of the different types of writings
5:10
that are inside the Bible and then a book by the one and only Vodie Bacham and that's
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family shepherd.
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So all five of those books together would cost you a pretty penny if you were to buy
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them on Amazon or whatever, but you can get that entire set for 50% off.
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You can buy every single one of those and you can get any one of the versions of the
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ESV men's study Bible that you want.
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So you can get the leather one.
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You can just get the regular heart back one.
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It's a super, super easy process on this guy.
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So it's just a three step process.
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You go to crossway.org and create your free crossway plus account, make sure you register
5:38
your account as well.
5:39
All this will be in the show notes guys.
5:40
So if you're driving, don't worry about it.
5:41
Just check it out later.
5:42
You just need to put all those books in your cart at once.
5:46
The links to the books are in the show notes as well.
5:47
And then the third step is just use the promo code BSSP 50 to get 50% off at checkout.
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That is Bravo Sierra Sierra Papa five zero to get 50% off at checkout for that stack
5:58
right there guys, whatever tools you need, like I'm, I'm the guy that's like, Hey, you
6:03
don't need anything fancy.
6:04
Just get it done.
6:05
Right.
6:06
Like, Hey, you don't need to, you know, go to the fanciest global gym.
6:09
You just need to find a tree with like a horizontal limb and that's where you're going to do
6:12
your pullups.
6:13
But when it comes to Bible study, I don't care.
6:16
Like for me, all bets are off.
6:17
If getting these cute little journals is good, if you want like a purse Bible, like Caleb
6:22
has, I don't care, whatever you are able to get digital, digital written, you know, if
6:27
it's on tablets, I don't care.
6:29
Get the scripture as much as possible.
6:30
But today we are digging into Matthew 15.
6:33
And so Caleb, if you can find it in your heart and in that little thing that you call
6:39
a Bible, if you could please read Matthew 15 one through nine.
6:43
I cannot wait.
6:44
I'm going to act on my phone.
6:45
I wanted to take a picture while this was happening is double column two.
6:49
Okay.
6:50
Oh, no.
6:51
How?
6:52
How can you get two columns on that?
6:53
Wow.
6:54
You're going to make me read through nine.
6:56
Yeah.
6:57
You're reading the whole day.
6:58
So just get ready.
6:59
But yeah, Matthew 15 one through nine.
7:00
All right.
7:01
Here we go, then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, why
7:06
do your disciples break the tradition of elders?
7:08
For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.
7:11
And he answered and said to them, why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God
7:16
for the sake of your tradition?
7:17
For God said, honor your father and mother.
7:20
And he who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.
7:23
But you say, whoever says to his father or mother, whatever I have, that would help.
7:27
You have you has been given to God.
7:30
He is not to honor his father or his mother.
7:32
And by this, you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7:36
You hypocrites rightly did Isaiah prophecy of you, prophesy of you.
7:41
This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me.
7:44
But in vain do they worship me, teaching us doctrine, the precepts of men.
7:49
Yeah, there's a lot here.
7:51
I guess the first thing we should probably talk about is what were the Pharisees and scribes
7:56
trying to do here?
7:57
So when we talk about the Pharisees and the scribes or the Sadducees, you know, throughout
8:01
the gospels, like, I guess all to speak for me, I'm like, these guys must have just been
8:05
hanging around.
8:06
You know, like anytime you watch that after school special about those people that are
8:09
going to try to get you to smoke cigarettes, they just happen to be at that street corner
8:12
where you're waiting for the bus.
8:14
So that's where it kind of seems like this is happening.
8:16
But this was likely a formal investigative body that was sent there like on a mission
8:22
to do this.
8:23
So this wasn't just like a haphazard thing, like this was part of the plan.
8:26
Yeah, this is the equivalent, like the words when Jesus from Jerusalem, when they came
8:31
to him from Jerusalem, this is the equivalent of like the FBI showing up on your door instead
8:35
of the local police.
8:36
I mean, it's a bigger deal.
8:38
These guys are here to try and disrupt what he is doing specifically because they have
8:44
a whole lot of problems with the following that he's been getting.
8:46
I want to come out of the gate with something on this right away.
8:50
Let's go.
8:51
So this kind of hit me for some reason, like it hasn't before.
8:55
And they start asking these questions.
8:57
The very first thing he does is he says, and why do you break the commandment of God for
9:02
the sake of your tradition question mark?
9:05
And so it was interesting that he comes right back with this question.
9:09
So I want to just look into that for a minute.
9:11
And what I found in my research, if this is true, I think it is, it says Jesus is asked
9:16
183 questions in the gospels and he responds directly only three times.
9:22
So 180 times he responds with a question, a parable, an illustration, indirect statement
9:26
or silence.
9:27
And he's recorded asking 307 questions in the gospels.
9:33
So if we just take that for a second and think about it, it seems like he liked to answer
9:36
questions with questions or with parables.
9:39
And he would try to challenge and stretch the people through those circumstances with
9:42
how he was responding.
9:44
So how often do we pray for answers, right?
9:47
And in this context, perhaps we should consider that God will respond with something besides
9:52
direct answers.
9:53
Perhaps it's a question or circumstance or people that stir your heart or challenge
9:57
you to do various things in your life.
9:59
You've heard if you pray for humility, maybe God put you in a situation that will make
10:03
you humble or give you an opportunity to demonstrate humility, so forth.
10:08
So I just thought it was really interesting to think about that for a minute, especially
10:11
as we start the next couple of chapters and read through these because he does it every
10:16
single time.
10:18
And how is that impactful around us and our everyday lives?
10:21
Well, let me open that up for the rest of you guys.
10:24
In times where you've been in prayer or when you just feel like God talked to you, just
10:28
however he talks to you, whether it's through your gut or through your brain or whatever,
10:32
have you ever had a time where you feel like you were getting a question back?
10:35
Because as you were describing that, it's like, I feel like I knew that intellectually,
10:39
but it was like to hear you kind of bust it out, it's like, yeah, of course, that's how
10:42
he communicated all the time.
10:43
And it's a great, you know, sales tactic.
10:45
It's a great relational tactic to answer difficult questions with other questions.
10:49
But I can't really think of a time where I felt like I got a question back.
10:54
Is that something that's ever happened for you guys?
10:56
It hadn't happened for me.
10:57
I mean, honestly, every time I felt like I've heard from God, it's been pretty, you know,
11:03
it's been a command.
11:05
It's more of a, you know, I have this hesitation towards doing something.
11:09
And then there's just this voice that's basically shoving me forward or, you know, I don't want
11:16
to share something, I don't want to talk about something, and then, you know, I always describe
11:20
it.
11:21
It's like, I feel it like from my toes.
11:22
And there's just this shove that just is like, this is coming out of you.
11:27
Like this is not going to be something that you get to hold in.
11:31
You know, I've said it before, but there's this whole thing of, you know, when you are
11:35
tempted to hide, you should share when you're tempted to share, you should hide.
11:40
And in the idea of just taking that humility of, I'm not going to talk about this, because
11:48
you know, it would be shameful for me when it's like, well, but you should confess that.
11:53
On the flip side of that, it's, you know, I want everybody to know how great I am because
11:56
of this thing.
11:57
It's like, no, just keep your mouth shut.
11:59
Like there's no reason to, there's no reason to talk about that at that point because you're
12:02
itself a grandisening, it's prideful.
12:05
But for me, it's always just been more of a do this, you need to do this.
12:10
Now, sometimes it comes off as a riddle.
12:14
Yeah.
12:15
A lot of times it does for me, anyway, yeah, you seem, you seem like you're really confident
12:23
that you've heard that direction, which is, I mean, I think pretty awesome.
12:26
I think that's probably something that I struggle with more than anything else is trying to
12:30
be discerning about, you know, what, where am I being compelled to go and is that the
12:34
right thing to do?
12:35
And all of those types of things, but you seem pretty confident.
12:39
Maybe irrationally so, but I mean, it's, I don't know.
12:43
It's just something that, I mean, it's, it's gone on for a very long time.
12:47
I kind of know the signs.
12:49
It's generally surrounds like I'm weighing something on, I don't really want to do this.
12:55
And then there's this voice that just kind of comes in and says, you need to do this.
13:00
Well, that's, that's the way you communicate, like, yeah.
13:03
So coxuriness is like a good thing.
13:05
Like, if you're given that as a gift, like, because someone, we were talking to a group
13:09
of people yesterday and there were like three or four people that came up and spoke and
13:13
they were so sure of themselves.
13:15
And I was one of those people and it was like, for some crowds, that's like, oh, that's kind
13:19
of, that's, that's kind of offensive and it's a little bit abrasive and it's a little bit
13:23
too cocky.
13:24
And it's like, yeah, if it's fake, like if it's manufactured, but like, think about the
13:28
people in the Bible that were like that, again, they were coxured dudes and they were like,
13:33
those are, you know, the prophets.
13:34
Yeah.
13:35
And yeah, John the Baptist.
13:36
These are people that are.
13:37
Yeah.
13:38
Right.
13:39
And that's like when you're, if you're pulling off the pen to a grenade and getting ready
13:41
to throw it, that's not a subtle process, like, and you better be sure where you're throwing
13:45
it.
13:46
And so that's a helpful thing thinking through this, this chunk of scripture as well, but
13:50
also just when I start to feel feel, fear, say a call is when it's like, I start looking
13:56
at the rules because I'm great at following them.
13:59
Right.
14:00
I like to challenge why the rules are even there.
14:03
But if you put the rules in place, I'm going to do it.
14:05
But there's obviously every time you see these people, they're so focused on the details
14:09
or so focused on the law and the tradition.
14:13
And it's constantly getting in their way and it's causing them to blind themselves because
14:18
it's like you're, you're missing the fact that prophecy is being fulfilled before your
14:23
eyes and it's because of what you're focused on.
14:26
What's so great about this passage too is just the way that Jesus responds with how that,
14:31
how the truth exposes, right?
14:34
In that, I mean, they, they think they're always trying to trick him, right?
14:37
Or like, I'm going to, we're going to corner him with this question or that question.
14:40
It's like, oh, yeah.
14:41
But what about this?
14:42
And what about how, you know, you all give and give and give to the Lord, but you can't
14:48
even take care of your own father and mother because of it.
14:51
Right.
14:52
And a lot of people don't really understand like this part of the scripture, but ultimately
14:57
this would be like you saying, oh, I would totally care for my, my elderly parents.
15:01
I would care for them here in my home where I'd pay for them to be in a community close
15:05
by.
15:06
But you know what?
15:07
I've dedicated that money that was at earmarked for you guys for the Lord.
15:11
And so I'm just going to go ahead and let that be how that money is going to be spent.
15:15
And so that's what Jesus is referring to when he's going back to these people because it
15:19
was really a diabolical thing that they were doing because you're a full of crap like that,
15:23
like that they didn't dedicate it.
15:25
They did that so they wouldn't have to spend that money because here's the thing is they
15:28
didn't give the money to the church and then look at their parents and go, oopsie daisy.
15:32
You know, pockets turned out like I can't pay for this.
15:34
They kept the money.
15:36
So they had it in their possession and were able to use it and did use it.
15:40
But when it came to mommy and daddy, it was like, eh, you know, tough luck.
15:44
It's just a rough, rough thing.
15:47
Even indicative of how we treat these circumstances a lot.
15:50
Oh, yeah.
15:51
The other thing I was going to talk about, I want to talk about in these first nine passages
15:54
here is, you know, there's a lot of talk about tradition.
15:59
And I do think that we have a tendency to maybe get locked into certain traditions, maybe
16:04
even before we came to Christ, like there's these certain things that we just go and do.
16:08
I have, you know, maybe I have a trip.
16:10
I go on with my buddies every year or, you know, maybe my family likes to do this one
16:16
thing around the holidays every year and we get locked into it and then you should have
16:23
this, you know, once you commit your life to Christ, there's this transformation that
16:27
should occur.
16:28
And there should be an evaluation of the traditions that you are holding dear and saying, like,
16:32
this is something that I commit to doing.
16:34
I mean, it's, it's how I, it's what we do around this time of year, it's how the things
16:40
are done.
16:41
And there's an evaluation I think that has to be done after you commit to your.
16:46
But can we commit that following to, to following Christ once you get to that point, you have
16:51
to start evaluating these traditions on whether they are actual godly things.
16:56
And those traditions can include like the relationships you had before you came to Christ.
17:01
I mean, look, there are very old friends of mine.
17:04
I still talk to them.
17:05
I still have a relationship with them.
17:08
But do I still hang out with them like I used to?
17:10
Absolutely not.
17:11
It's too difficult to do.
17:14
They are not on the same walk as I am.
17:16
And it does come down to you have to find the people that are going, that you have to
17:21
surround yourself with people who can actually help you with your walk.
17:25
It's still okay to go out into the world and say, be that salt and light to those same
17:29
people.
17:31
Not saying that you have to completely withdraw, but you know what, if you have a tradition
17:35
that every time somebody goes, you know, gets married, that, well, the tradition is we go
17:39
to the strip club and we get drunk, you can't do that anymore.
17:42
Right.
17:43
And that's not being an ambassador for the faith.
17:46
Well, that's something that I find just a little short detour and then we'll get right
17:50
back on to this.
17:52
The odds of everyone at this table being at our funerals, like it's, if we all live to,
17:59
you know, life expectancy, the odds of us being at each other's funerals will, for one
18:03
of us, you've got to be the first to die.
18:04
So you're not going to go to anyone's funeral, but like it's, it's not, it's not, it's not
18:08
high.
18:09
Right.
18:10
So some people look at how I look at friendships and they're like, man, that's kind of a, kind
18:15
of a rough, like cut and dry way of thinking about it.
18:17
Like I've had friendships that were 25 plus years that basically went, went away for some
18:22
of the same things that you just described, Jake, and people like, why aren't you emotional
18:26
about that?
18:27
It's like, well, no, I got to have a friendship with that person for 25 years.
18:32
Like I wasn't going to be friends with them forever.
18:35
And some people are like, Oh, that's too utilitarian.
18:37
Like you're, you're using people and you just want people for certain seasons.
18:41
It's like, no, people just have seasons.
18:43
People move.
18:44
People get different jobs.
18:45
And the thing is, is like as much as you wish for your life to stay the same, if your
18:49
circumstances change, it's like, what are you grasping onto?
18:53
Yeah.
18:54
And like that's not super helpful.
18:55
And if you're trying to build a foxhole, it has to be with people that you are actually
18:58
accountable to.
18:59
So if you have your boys, you know, from high school or your frat brothers from college
19:03
or whatever, but if you don't even live in the same community as those people, if you
19:07
need an accountability partner, because you have a problem with porn, like having those
19:10
guys be that for you, like you're not, they're not consequential to your life anymore.
19:15
You don't even live in the same city.
19:16
That's right.
19:17
That doesn't mean you can't connect.
19:18
But go ahead.
19:19
So I agree with everything that both of you guys said, um, for me, after I gave my life
19:24
to Christ, that's one of the big, like pronounced things that happen as certain people went away
19:29
and new people came in.
19:30
Yep.
19:31
And it just happened.
19:32
One thing I'd say about that is in today's society, it's difficult to maintain relationships
19:36
for a long period of time, because people move around so much because modern society
19:39
enables that lots of studies have come out, including one from Harvard that demonstrated
19:44
that one of the key factors to a successful life, like a life that you feel satisfied
19:48
with, they followed a group of people for like 50 years was actually long-term relationships.
19:54
So putting yourself in circumstances where you can have those is tremendously important,
19:59
but you only have the capacity to do that with so many people.
20:01
I think about 150 is how many can maintain some sort of contact with but have decent relationships.
20:06
That's going to be very few.
20:07
Well, now, like the number, so that's the, you know, number of people that you can talk
20:11
to another name and remember the kid's names, but it's more like 12 is like the number of
20:16
people that you can really dedicate to.
20:18
What an interesting number, like, let's say the number of disciples that were called and
20:22
like that's, that's what sociology is telling us like one of my favorite things that happens
20:26
every year is when sociology catches up to the Bible, not your Bible Caleb is no one can
20:30
read this, but like, like it's so interesting when that happens because it's like, oh, you're
20:35
telling me one of the best outcomes for a child is for them to grow up in a family with a mother
20:41
and a father, siblings and attending church shock of all shocks like, you know, it's just
20:47
kind of one of those, those interesting things.
20:48
Well, and hopefully like when you, I mean, maybe last word on that was if you have those
20:52
long-term relationships, hopefully it's because you're both growing at the same rate or similar
20:57
rate.
20:58
They didn't even just in the same direction.
21:00
Exactly.
21:01
Like, so maybe you're on your Christian walk and someone's also on that walk, but they
21:04
just suck at it and you're better at it.
21:06
Well, like, you know, you kind of have a rabbit to chase or something, but like if you're,
21:10
it doesn't matter what rate, rate you're growing at if you're growing in opposite directions.
21:13
Right.
21:14
You know what I mean?
21:15
There's a lot of people that have been friends for a long time and they're the same as they
21:17
were, you know, I mean, it's like there may be a group of your high school buddies or
21:21
whatever and it's just like they were in high school doing the same stuff.
21:24
Yeah, one of the two like popular sayings, like you'll be the same person in five years
21:28
that you are today except for the books you read and people you meet.
21:31
And then you're the average of the five closest people around you.
21:33
So try to average up.
21:34
Right.
21:35
Oh, and I've said for a long time, you should always look at who you were five years ago
21:40
and be at least somewhat embarrassed.
21:42
Yeah.
21:43
Wait, I thought that I read books like that.
21:44
I listened to that pastor, like, you know, those types of things because whenever I look
21:48
back five years ago, I was still listening to any Stanley sermons every week and getting
21:52
a lot out of it and like doing those types of things like five years ago, there were
21:55
different physical modalities that if I were doing them now would be very deleterious to
21:59
my body.
22:00
And so it's like, gosh, I can't believe I used to do that type of stuff.
22:02
But it wasn't because I was being risky then is because I thought it was the right thing
22:05
to do.
22:06
And so that's all a good word for you guys when it comes to your relationships, but also
22:09
just your personal development and, you know, think about Bible study, like just this one
22:13
year, right?
22:14
And I know we're spending a lot of time on this first section, but this is important.
22:17
Remember why we started the forging table guys?
22:20
Because in 2022, I read 54 books for the podcast.
22:24
Gosh, I'm just a genius, right?
22:25
Oh, look at me.
22:26
Like I'm reading all these books and it's so fancy and I did not read 54 chapters of the
22:31
Bible.
22:32
And over Christmas break, I was like, like this is a major, major issue.
22:36
We need to throw this completely out of whack.
22:38
So this year I've been done a perfect job, but I'm going to end up reading 40ish books,
22:43
but it's spent a whole lot more time on the word and just seeing how my mind has changed
22:48
since January of 2022, when we started this thing to where I'm at today.
22:54
Like I can't imagine five years from now staying just on the forging table train, like having
22:58
something to study the scripture for sound come here and, you know, make a fool of myself.
23:03
It's already like changing and molding your brain and how you think about situations.
23:06
Yeah.
23:07
And I mean, to the point on the books, I was actually having a discussion with Matt Graspire
23:11
the other day about, you know, we were in a book club, we read these books and, you know,
23:16
everybody's like, well, I have a problem with this and, you know, most of them are all,
23:20
you know, faith-based.
23:21
It's we're trying to develop ourselves faithfully and pursue a, you know, pursue that walk
23:26
with Christ.
23:28
But I said in the chat that I was like, look, every one of these books is going to have
23:32
a flaw with it.
23:34
Every single one of them, because Matt Graspire says, well, you know, I have a problem with
23:37
the way that they use scripture here.
23:38
And I was like, well, every one of these books is going to have a flaw, but we have the perfect
23:42
book already.
23:43
We already have it.
23:45
We're reading all of these other things.
23:46
And if we're not spending time in the word, I mean, we could read all sorts of things,
23:52
be led down the wrong path, not see anything that would be heretical.
23:56
I mean, you know, yes, to the five years ago embarrassment.
24:00
Yeah, I read Andy Stanley books.
24:01
I mean, and it's like, I'm sure back then, I because I was not spending as much time here,
24:06
there's probably plenty that I was taking out of those books going, Oh, that's like,
24:11
that's deep and meaningful.
24:12
Right, Andy, Andy wouldn't lead me astray.
24:15
I think we know better now.
24:17
One last thing.
24:18
And then I'll be quite on this.
24:19
But one thing that hit me is I was preparing for this is it kind of interrupted the time
24:23
that I spend on my typical Bible reading, which is trying to read through this whole
24:27
thing.
24:28
A certain period of time, all that.
24:29
And as a result of that, I definitely got this sense that I was spending my time because
24:33
there's a lot of other things happening right now, just preparing and not using it as an
24:36
actual bear time.
24:39
This actually hit me.
24:40
And so I've tried to be very diligent about breaking this up and praying about it as I
24:45
would with my normal time getting prepared.
24:48
So I guess just as a personal example, if you are doing something like this, make sure
24:51
that you're doing it because this is an actual living book, not just like a normal book that
24:56
you would read.
24:57
This is God talking to you.
24:58
So spend the time praying and doing all the things you ought to be doing.
25:00
Well, there's there's something to that is that going back to this section in verse six.
25:04
So for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
25:09
You can make a tradition out of reading some pretty dope books that aren't the Bible.
25:14
There's a stack of them right there.
25:15
There's one Bible.
25:16
There's one Bible journal and then three books that are not scripture.
25:19
They got scripture all the way through them, but I had lulled myself into this tradition
25:23
of reading biblical books, but I also had this bad habit of whenever they would have
25:29
that little indentation and then like a short, you know, scripture, you know, here's four
25:34
or five scriptures in a row.
25:35
I would just skip it.
25:36
Oh, I know that scripture.
25:37
And then I would go back to the meat or whatever the author was saying.
25:39
It's like dad gummy like what I'm skipping the point.
25:43
Yeah.
25:44
Like imagine watching a movie, but it's like, no, I don't want to see the conclusion.
25:47
I just want to see the build up, right?
25:49
Like you're skipping the point of what you're reading.
25:51
Well, see, as Lewis says, or Spurgeon says, I used to do that.
25:55
I read every one of those books.
25:56
Right.
25:57
What is he saying about what?
25:58
Like read the actual source when it's, it's great to read Spurgeon and Lewis and Kierkegaard
26:05
and GK Chesterton and, and, and, and we have a book list on our website, the one hundred
26:09
books every modern Christian man should read lists.
26:11
You know, it's not on there at the Bible, not because the Bible is not the most important
26:13
book.
26:14
The Bible is a library, right?
26:16
And so if you're, you already know the Bible thing, I'm trying to give you other things
26:19
that will help you kind of be a well-rounded man in modernity into where you can be equipped
26:22
to be able to push back darkness.
26:24
But again, in this situation with the Pharisees, this investigative crew, they were, they were
26:29
focusing on tradition because that's where they thought they could nail Jesus.
26:33
And Jesus was like, no, you're focusing on something else, not the actual point.
26:38
Let's get into this next, next section for me.
26:40
This next section of Matthew 15 was probably the, the most potent.
26:43
So somebody with a normal size Bible, if you would like to read, uh, verses 10 through
26:48
20 and he called the people to him and said to them here and understand it is not what
26:55
goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth.
26:59
This defiles a person.
27:01
When the disciples came and said to him, do you know that the Pharisees were offended
27:06
when they heard this saying?
27:08
He answered, every plant that my heavenly father has not planted will be rooted up.
27:13
Let them alone.
27:14
They are blind guides.
27:15
And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.
27:19
But Peter said to him, explain the parable to us.
27:23
And he said, are you also still without understanding?
27:26
Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?
27:32
But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart and this defiles a person for out
27:37
of the heart comes evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false
27:43
witness, slander.
27:45
These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.
27:51
So with this in, I'm keeping an eye on the clock because we have, we have other sections
27:55
here that I want to get into, but I feel like we need to break this down, like into little
27:59
subsections because there's so many little points here.
28:02
So verse 10, and he called the people to him and said to them, here and understand it in
28:06
then verse 11, it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes
28:09
out of the mouth, this defiles a person.
28:11
Okay.
28:12
So let's just camp there for just a second.
28:13
I have seen people use this scripture as an excuse for, I'm going to eat whatever I want.
28:19
And God can't tell me any better because that's not going to defile me, right?
28:23
Or you know what, I got this email just a couple of months ago, instead of exercising
28:28
and focusing on my diet, I'm going to spend more time in prayer.
28:32
That's what I'm going to do.
28:33
And I'm like, let's just say I believed you.
28:35
Let's just say, and I have my doubts.
28:38
It's like you're cutting off years of prayer, you know, all things being equal because you're
28:44
not caring for yourself and caring for your body.
28:47
And so that's just something that that stuck out to me.
28:49
I don't know if y'all have ever heard something like that.
28:50
This isn't like a popular thing in modernity, but I've certainly heard people use that that
28:54
they want to focus on the holy part of it and be like, you know what?
28:57
I'm just going to be holy and then don't look at me as I, you know, drink my milkshake
29:00
kind of thing.
29:01
Have any of y'all heard that?
29:03
No.
29:04
Zach, why are you looking at me like disappointed father?
29:05
I mean, I'm over here thinking like, why was Kyle staring at me the entire time I wasn't
29:11
staring at you?
29:12
I gave equal time to everybody except for Caleb because he's kind of to my right.
29:14
And I can't exactly see him when I talk in, but before it gets any more awkward, I want
29:17
to know where the judgment's coming from, Zach.
29:19
You're looking at me like you're disappointed.
29:20
What?
29:21
It's not you.
29:22
I'm just listening to the, you know, your, your, what you're, what you're contending
29:24
with.
29:25
Whatever.
29:26
Okay.
29:27
Yeah.
29:28
Then verse 12, then the disciples came and said to him, do you know that the Pharisees
29:29
were offended.
29:30
hilarious.
29:31
I literally wrote L.O.L. over offended.
29:33
It's like, you mean people that are professionally offended by everything got offended?
29:35
No way.
29:36
And when they, when they heard this saying he answered every plant that my heavenly father
29:39
has not planted will be rooted up and in the first verse 14, let them alone.
29:46
They are blind guides, and if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.
29:51
Like he's basically saying, well, not basically he is saying the Pharisees were not planted
29:55
by God.
29:58
And I think about people, we just mentioned Annie Stanley, and again, I don't want this
30:00
to be a non to life of man's podcast to turn into a Stanley sucks hour.
30:05
But you know, it's these people that have not been rooted by God, they will be pulled
30:10
out.
30:11
They will be rooted and not planted by God rather.
30:13
And so that's kind of cold comfort for me a little bit to where it's like, you know,
30:18
I, I told people when I talked to a guy today who in my Sunday school, whose daughter goes
30:22
to one of Andy Stanley's churches and they are just torn to pieces about and they don't
30:27
know what to do because they want to keep the relationship with daughter and grandkids
30:30
and you know, the whole nine, but they're terrified for how they're being marinated.
30:34
And I said, look, you should have two prayers.
30:37
Number one, that Andy Stanley repents for his behavior and the things that he said.
30:41
And number two, if he does not, that he should lose his ministry for him to be rooted up.
30:47
And I think that's an okay thing.
30:48
Some people again, seems a little rough, but like that this, this is comforting to me that
30:54
these people that drive me so nuts that have such big followings that are potentially leading
30:58
people down the primrose path to hell, that it's okay.
31:00
It's going to work out in the end.
31:02
Well, in three that they could just find another church, right?
31:05
Yeah, because they could control that now.
31:07
That would probably be a big one.
31:09
I've had this discussion recently with some close family members.
31:12
And I think the one thing that stuck out to me, because they were describing their experience
31:15
trying to find churches was just the of the ones that they mentioned, nobody was just
31:20
going through the books and reading through the passages.
31:23
It was always, as you say, you know, Ted dogs sprinkled with Bible versus kind of a thing.
31:27
And I'm so sheltered from that given our local church experience that it's kind of alien
31:31
at this point.
31:32
For me, when I hear them say it, I'm like, man, the whole sermon that day was just around
31:36
how much money they'd raised and what their plans were without having any sort of meaningful,
31:41
you know, biblical message.
31:44
So and one thing that I think is important to this real quick, Caleb.
31:47
One thing that they that I think is important to this is there are expository churches that
31:52
will periodically take breaks to do things that are topical that are pertinent to something.
31:57
For instance, during the Thanksgiving, you know, time period of, you know, the last time we
32:02
had Thanksgiving, our church did like a one week thing on like Thanksgiving.
32:05
You know, if you're hitting the Proverbs, that can be something you can kind of pop into
32:08
and pop out of.
32:10
But for the most part of the 52 sermons delivered in a year, 45 of them roughly are going to
32:17
be expositorly going from chapter to chapter, or, you know, from verse to verse through chapters
32:22
of different books of the Bible, but we're going to say, Caleb, I don't remember.
32:26
But dad, go and Kyle, I mean, you know, even like a deviation from whatever we're going
32:33
through because some prophetical thing happened in the world, right?
32:38
You know, that it's like to take a break to talk about, okay, here's what everyone's
32:40
thinking about.
32:41
So we're going to talk about it and how it relates to scripture.
32:43
So I mean, I totally agree.
32:45
Like you'd end up, if you went to a church that wasn't that way, it would, it would stick
32:49
out.
32:50
I mean, you'd see it from, you know, you'd be five minutes into the sermon and say what's
32:53
going on.
32:54
And one shout out to Mark Hitchcock, who's the pastor of our church, because he's big
32:57
on end time stuff and revelation, and when Hamas attacked Israel, it didn't matter what
33:04
was the plan and what it was going to do for the schedule for the next calendar year.
33:08
He talked about that.
33:10
And he, he's not a lighted up guy.
33:13
He's just not.
33:14
He's very even killed.
33:15
He's very consistent.
33:16
He's very predictable.
33:17
He lit it up that day, not by screaming and hollering and banging his, his, you know, hands
33:22
on, on everything.
33:23
It was just truth bombs on top of truth bombs.
33:25
And that was the same week that I taught Sunday school and it was kind of interesting because
33:29
I taught on the same subject matter.
33:31
And I went really deep into the, the depth of the depravity, what happened during that
33:35
time period.
33:36
And a lot of the nuggets of information were immediately echoed by him once we all went
33:41
into the service.
33:42
And so it was kind of good that it's like, okay, there are ways to deal with the situation
33:46
like this that don't involve, you know, covering your eyes and plugging your ears, which is
33:49
nice.
33:51
Another quick point on verse 14, when it says, let them alone, that this is like the abandonment
33:56
of God as a form of wrath.
33:58
So that's what a John MacArthur said in his commentary.
34:02
And this is similar to Romans one 18 through 22, where it's like, give them over to their
34:05
own sin.
34:06
So he's like, Hey man, if the blind want to lead the blind, let them, let them fall into
34:10
that stupid pit that I put there just for those little idiots.
34:13
That's kind of what I'm God's probably not going to say it that way.
34:15
But it's just a translation.
34:16
Zach.
34:17
Okay.
34:18
Stop looking at me with such disappointment.
34:19
Okay.
34:20
That's a good section here.
34:21
This is good for people that are dumb like me.
34:23
Peter's like, explain the parable to us.
34:27
And this is one of those opportunities that we get to read the scripture as if Jesus had
34:32
a personality because he did he responded.
34:35
And this is how most people would read it.
34:37
And he said, are you also still without understanding?
34:40
Do you not see that?
34:41
Whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled.
34:45
Do you think that's how he said it?
34:47
Everybody out there?
34:48
Because that's how it's read.
34:49
I think of him as being super sarcastic right now.
34:52
And he's like, are you kidding me?
34:54
Is this still happening?
34:55
Right.
34:56
It's somewhere between problems like sarcasm showing him, right?
34:59
You know, it goes down and used.
35:02
When I use these words, this is what they're meant to portray to you.
35:05
But like he was somewhere between sarcastically frustrated to just outwardly frustrated like,
35:11
am I still, are y'all still not getting this?
35:14
And so that's just kind of as a, as an aside here, I love whenever you get the personality
35:18
of Christ, when you're reading through this, right?
35:21
It's just interesting to me that he spends so much time talking about sort of spiritual
35:27
things, right, things that, that, that originate on the inside and come outside.
35:32
It seems like in our tangible world, that's kind of given, you know, second thought.
35:36
Whereas in his, it seems like what he talks about, it's always that first and then followed
35:40
by whatever the physical, tangible, tangible thing is, including when he's healing people.
35:45
You know, your sins are forgiven.
35:46
Okay, if that's not enough, now you can get up and walk kind of a deal.
35:49
So we'll talk more about it later, but it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently.
35:54
I think, I think what we're seeing here is Jesus was far less concerned with the surface
36:01
level of the law, like the external things, the things that you're going to actually show
36:07
and do your works, if you will, from the former Catholic in the, in the group.
36:14
He's much less concerned with that.
36:16
He's much more concerned with on the, what's on the inside.
36:19
He's more concerned with, I mean, the theme here is the centrality of the heart in your
36:26
walk with Christ.
36:28
If the inside is rotten, it does not matter what you do on the outside.
36:33
It's going, I mean, just like fruit, the inside is rotten.
36:37
It doesn't matter how pretty it is on the outside.
36:39
The inside is rotten.
36:41
You can't, and you may not be able to see it, but it's there.
36:44
And that's one thing for the community that, that we're in as well is we go to a pretty
36:48
church.
36:49
I will say that there are a bunch of good looking people.
36:52
We got models like this guy here to my right with those baby blues and that wonderful winning
36:55
smile.
36:56
That's why they don't let me come.
36:58
Yeah.
36:59
No ogres at our church, Jacob.
37:01
We have like a height risk, it's like, like we have a very well put together church.
37:07
The families are, are well-dressed mothers and fathers are well-dressed.
37:11
A lot of the moms have had work done and it's like we all look great, but it's that exact
37:16
thing that I try to remind myself of because I will get lulled to sleep by the amount of
37:20
put togetherness that's around me.
37:23
And I try to be authentic, but at the same time, the number of times that my wife had
37:26
been at each other's throats in the car, in the parking lot before we get out so that
37:32
we can skip into church and hey, how's it going?
37:34
What?
37:35
Oh, you're here to worship the Lord.
37:36
And it's just kind of like that that's where the community thing going back to those real
37:41
relationships, those 12 or so that you have in your life.
37:45
Those people where you can sit around a fire with a cigar in a drink or at a restaurant
37:49
or a round of Bible study, your own forging table and to be able to just lay it out there
37:53
and be like, here's an enormous mistake I made here recently.
37:57
That is incredibly embarrassing.
37:59
Here's a tremendous sin that I'm still, you know, reckoning with or focusing on or needing
38:03
to get better at.
38:05
So a couple of quick things here on this section again, I know we have more in Matthew 15,
38:11
but in verse 18, but what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart and this defiles
38:16
a person.
38:18
What this does ultimately lead to is a discussion about cussing, right?
38:22
The types of words that we use.
38:24
Now I have heard every argument there is about cussing, at least I hope not because I'm still
38:32
confused about the issue because you can't go to the scripture and find a list of words
38:37
that are unable to be spoken.
38:39
Yeah.
38:40
Right.
38:41
You know, you have what is it?
38:42
The FEC or whatever that controls the words you can say on the radio or the words that you
38:45
can say on television and those different things like, okay, and if you say too many of these
38:49
words now it's an R-rated movie there.
38:51
There's all that kind of stuff.
38:52
And by the way, that's not a course light.
38:54
That is a jocko go energy drink being popped by the Winkler right now, but I don't know
38:59
what to do about cussing because I've been around devout Christians that are in the
39:03
word that are praying all the time that cuss like a sailor.
39:06
I was around one last night.
39:07
He's a firefighter in the state of New York and it's just like he's Italian and he's Irish
39:12
and he's just like these are just the words he says.
39:15
And then there are the people that are squeaky clean.
39:17
They don't even say sucks.
39:19
They don't even say gosh darn it because gosh darn it means something else that is blaspheming
39:23
the name of God like those types of things.
39:25
I don't know what to tell a young Christian or a new Christian about this.
39:30
And I haven't heard a compelling argument from somebody about why they should or shouldn't
39:36
what words are acceptable or what tonality they should use.
39:39
I mean, I guess I always, my perspective has always been why are you saying them?
39:46
I mean, is this coming from, you know, because to me it's like, I don't know that the words
39:51
themselves are sinful.
39:53
I mean, if you just said one, just randomly out of context, like as an example, as an
39:59
example, which ones are you going to use as a fun little as a fun little game as a fun
40:05
little game.
40:06
There is a word like the French pronounce seal as the F word.
40:13
Okay, literally like seal like the animal.
40:16
Yes.
40:17
Like, okay.
40:18
Yes.
40:19
I mean, look at that little, yeah, it's exactly biggest mistake I made was actually sharing
40:26
that with my daughters.
40:27
Because now they're like, you know, well, this is just, you know, this is just a seal.
40:31
I mean, you know, but the, the idea, like, I mean, I'm going, okay, well, I'm, oh, let's
40:37
say I'm over in France and I see a seal.
40:39
And then I say the F word.
40:40
I don't think that the word itself is going to necessarily be sense.
40:45
Why am I saying it and where is, where is the heart in that matter?
40:49
It's the same thing.
40:50
I think, think here when you talk about is Jesus more concerned about the external or
40:55
the internal.
40:56
Okay.
40:57
Let me dig into that just a little bit.
40:58
So let's go to the word that is the most persona non grata word in modernity.
41:03
And that is the N word, insert Louis C K joke.
41:06
If you know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about, but I have used that
41:10
word before in a very specific context and I've talked about this before, but in my dormitory,
41:16
we had a debate in our lobby about the use of that word in all of its forms, the hall
41:21
director whom I happened to work for.
41:23
I was a senior RA there were eight RAs underneath me or seven and then he was, he was my boss.
41:27
He was a black man shouldn't be relevant to the story, but it is.
41:30
So we sat in a group with probably a couple of dozen students and we, we talked about
41:34
that word openly.
41:36
And several of us used the, the fullness of that word to talk about the ethmology of
41:41
the word and where it came from.
41:43
And there were several people of color scare quotes that were in the room and nobody was
41:48
offended that the word was being used.
41:50
And when it was being called that, no one was being pointed out and they, they weren't
41:54
using it with the hard R or the A or any of that type of stuff.
41:58
But then there are people that have literally lost their jobs for doing the same thing in
42:01
a, in a modern college describing the ethmology of award or just saying.
42:06
There shouldn't be words that can't be spoken, right?
42:09
This isn't like, anyway, so there, there's that, that side of it.
42:12
That's the extreme side, but then let's take the F word.
42:16
If you're like, God, that effing sucks or you stub your toe and you scream the F word or
42:21
I effing hate that guy or you're an effing moron.
42:24
Where is the line on each one of those as to how it can be used and when it goes over
42:30
the threshold of sin folks, you could be, you could be like, that's effing amazing.
42:33
You baptized your son.
42:34
You know what I mean?
42:35
I don't really know where it stops with Zach.
42:39
Go ahead.
42:40
This is written several thousand years ago, right?
42:42
Right.
42:43
What Kyle just said.
42:44
Right.
42:45
I've been baptized my son.
42:46
So the amount of, the amount of transformation and language and intent and all the, you know,
42:50
the meanings behind the words has changed, you know, thousands of times, but it's still
42:54
relevant.
42:55
I was reading Proverbs, I think yesterday and one passage that stuck out was something
42:59
around, and I can't, I couldn't find much one, but I could look it up later.
43:03
But it basically amounted to the way that you speak could either be like sword thrusts
43:08
into a person, or it could be used to build them up.
43:11
And obviously it's saying that we should be building people up.
43:14
So when I think about it, I don't go to the specifics of the word, you go to the intention
43:17
behind the word, like you're saying, and what the context is, I mean, Christians were freed.
43:23
They weren't, they didn't have to adhere to whatever the ceremonial, you know, food situation
43:28
wasn't all that, but it does say, try not to offend people around you.
43:31
So I don't know about the specific words.
43:34
I would imagine that if you're in certain circumstances, you could probably say some
43:37
words and you know that you're not thrusting somebody.
43:39
But if you say it around grandma or something like that, you probably are, and they kind
43:43
of built in this, this sort of self guiding element to this, you'll know when you're crossing
43:48
a line more than likely.
43:49
I mean, it's got to be the hard behind it.
43:52
Yeah.
43:53
That's, that's the only explanation that actually makes sense, you know, and I mean, even like
43:56
you're saying, like based on the audience, you know, even, even the N word, like you're
44:01
talking about in certain groups of people, it means something totally different.
44:04
Right.
44:05
You know, it's like, I mean, in a, in a certain group of people, they're doing a certain
44:08
thing and someone says, and it's totally acceptable.
44:10
Oh, I mean, walk, walk the streets of London and ask someone like, Hey, can I bum a [inaudible]?
44:16
Like they're not talking about a physical act.
44:19
They're, they're asking for a cigarette.
44:21
Right.
44:22
Right.
44:23
And like that, that's just kind of a common thing that if we hear that right now, we are
44:25
going to get whiplash turning around to be like, Oh my gosh, what's, there's literally
44:29
about to be a gay bashing happening, but it's just the context of the language.
44:32
But I want to dig into that a little bit further because I'm kind of surprised by, by your,
44:37
the way you describe that, Zach, because this, this would probably be a year ago now, but
44:42
there was a story of this gay married couple that adopted these two young boys and they
44:47
were systematically horing these boys out to their other pedophilic gay friends and
44:54
raping them themselves.
44:56
And there were messages that were part of the court documents where, you know, this
45:02
guy is texting one of his buddies and he goes, Hey, I need to go F my son real quick.
45:06
I'll holler, I'll holler back at you that type of stuff.
45:09
And so I was for the sake of covering the content, I was going to use the exact words
45:16
that were in the transcript and I was not going to sanitize anything, right?
45:20
And I have not broken the F word barrier on my show at that point.
45:24
So I asked a couple of people that I thought could soberly because I knew the people that
45:28
were going to be like, yeah, frickin say it, man, I knew those people.
45:30
So I didn't go to them.
45:31
I went to other people.
45:33
And so one of those people was Zach, you're not like the gung ho guy.
45:35
You're like the, the quiet, contemplative guy.
45:38
And you advise me, he said, no, I don't think you should do it.
45:42
I don't think it adds to what you're doing.
45:45
So if you say the actual word, or if you just say the implied word, I don't think it, it
45:50
gives any, any less or more, um, I completely disagreed with your standpoint, but for whatever
45:57
reason, I just rolled with it.
45:58
I made the decision that when I got to that point of the show that I was going to make
46:02
the decision in the moment, and in the moment I chose not to use the words.
46:07
And so of all the context, to use something to point out the depravity and darkness, a
46:12
man, that would have been one to use it as opposed to some other flippin thing.
46:16
So help me kind of connect maybe where you were in terms of giving me advice back then
46:21
to where you, what you just said, cause I'd like my grandma to recommend your podcast.
46:26
She may be listening, you know, just as a quick answer.
46:29
I don't think that the word specifically in that context was going to add any value on
46:33
her understanding of what you were trying to communicate.
46:36
If you're in a private setting with a group of people where, you know, they don't, they're
46:40
not going to be offended by it.
46:41
I think it's probably okay.
46:42
This is just my opinion.
46:43
I'm sure people have a thousand opinions, but I stand by what I said then.
46:47
And I think that's why, just because it's, it's relative to your audience, which from
46:51
your perspective is relatively unknown.
46:53
Does your grandma listen to my show?
46:55
I don't know.
46:56
She, I have a feeling she'd be out on the metal, uh, right at the very beginning of the show.
47:00
She could be metalheads.
47:01
Some of these grandma's get down.
47:05
She'll be in the pit and her hit their walker and tennis balls and everything sitting on
47:08
there.
47:09
Okay.
47:10
So does anybody have anything else on the coasting thing?
47:11
And again, I, you know, I, we didn't come up with a, a clean answer on this either, but
47:16
it, it's just something that I think about a lot.
47:18
I don't take it to cussing so much as I do, because I know this can be hard for some
47:22
people.
47:23
I do think that we're supposed to be building people up with our words, right.
47:27
And not necessarily tearing them down.
47:29
Sometimes it's constructive criticism.
47:31
And you can, and you can tear people up and down and have zero cuss words.
47:36
Smile on your face as kindly as possible.
47:38
You don't have to.
47:39
Yeah.
47:40
For sure.
47:41
And I think the thing that, you know, I think about too, is like if around our kids, it
47:44
feels different, you know, like we should also say, like if, if I'm at a football game
47:51
or wherever I am and someone's just, you know, lighting it up behind me, like I might ask
47:54
them.
47:55
Right.
47:56
I don't know.
47:57
Just throwing that out there.
47:58
I think that's absolutely the correct context.
48:01
I remember when I used to work in New York City and I'd worked this place for like six
48:05
months and, you know, we're at some party and people had had a few drinks and one of the
48:09
guys go, I've never heard you say cuss word, well, you think you're better than us or something.
48:13
And I just kind of go, cussing's kind of indicative of a lack of vocabulary.
48:17
Yep.
48:18
And I just kind of left it there because this guy was kind of a [inaudible].
48:21
And so I wanted to embarrass him because he was trying to embarrass me.
48:23
So that's what I did at the time.
48:25
But that's kind of the thing.
48:26
It's like, if you, some people will default to, you know, vulgar language, what we would
48:32
all agree would be vulgar because they don't have a grasp on, on vocabulary.
48:38
They don't have a grasp on how to create a statement that doesn't have to go there.
48:42
So it was a sword thrust, but without a cuss word.
48:45
Well, whenever I went back at him, it was like, it was basically like translation.
48:49
You're a moron.
48:50
I'm smarter than you.
48:51
That's basically what that was.
48:54
The other part I want to talk about here and, you know, we can spend as much time as we
48:57
want on this, but this is Jesus was words again in verse 19, for out of the heart come
49:03
evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false, false witness, slander.
49:11
So to the Carl lenses of the world, to the Christians in the world that said, you know
49:15
what?
49:16
I'm a red letter Christian, as if the entire Bible's not read letters because of the triune
49:21
nature of God, but leaving that aside.
49:24
And then when I searched the red letters, I don't see the word homosexual and I'll see
49:29
the word gay.
49:30
I don't see the word lesbian.
49:31
I don't see the word bisexual.
49:32
I don't see any of that.
49:34
So you know what?
49:36
Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality and homosexual relationships.
49:38
So I won't either breaking news for you guys.
49:42
The ancient Galilean Aramaic language that Jesus used was way more descriptive using less
49:49
words than the current English language that we have the Greek that I was recorded in or
49:54
the Hebrew that I was recorded in, you could say in a few sentence or in a few words what
49:58
takes sentences in English today.
50:01
In sexual immorality in the words that you Jesus spoke and in the words that it was recorded
50:07
in, everyone in the audience would have recognized what he meant by this word, the ancient Greek
50:12
word is Pornea or Purnia, which talks about homosexuality, bestiality, but basically any
50:19
type of sex that is outside of the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman
50:23
for life.
50:24
And he separated that out into its own category, right, adultery, right, right.
50:29
So he's talking about everything else.
50:31
And that's that's really a fantastic point.
50:34
And so if you're wondering, guys, I think make notes in your Bible how you want to.
50:39
I think this is a big highlight, big underlying thing.
50:43
You highlight where it says sexual immorality there because one of the most nefarious things
50:48
that Satan is doing in modernity is he is allowing these liberal minded folks to lift
50:54
up their version of scripture and they are trying to convince you that 2000 years after
50:58
the fact, they have some sort of Gnostic knowledge of what this word actually meant in the context
51:05
of, you know, the first century in, you know, in, in these Jewish areas.
51:10
It's a it's a concerted effort that every sexual relationship is equally moral.
51:15
Sure.
51:16
All of them.
51:17
Absolutely.
51:18
Right.
51:19
I think that just that's saying.
51:20
Exactly.
51:21
I mean, that's that's where they're trying to go with it.
51:22
It's our it's our worldly understanding at this point and our new morality that we have
51:29
established.
51:30
It's not based on anything.
51:31
It's completely subjective and that, you know, 20 years ago, what was deemed completely
51:37
unacceptable is now become acceptable.
51:40
And now what where's the next stop?
51:43
You know, 20 years from now, what are we going to be looking at?
51:46
I think it's I think when you start talking about, I mean, I actually wrote down in here
51:51
like, even just the, you know, I've heard people talk about, you know, well, when Jesus
51:57
was here, he hung out with the sinners.
52:00
And so he would not hang out with you guys.
52:03
He would hang out with us.
52:04
It's like, okay, but do you think he's going to be doing everything that you're doing?
52:10
No, he would have pity on you.
52:13
He would want to forgive you.
52:15
He would want he would tell you to go and sin no more.
52:17
Exactly.
52:18
Call your two repentance.
52:19
You still go back to, again, centrality of the heart here.
52:23
Okay.
52:24
Sexual immorality.
52:25
And I'm going to suddenly get back to this whole cult of kindness.
52:28
Why are people basically equating this?
52:31
Well, it's not immoral anymore.
52:33
Well, because I want to be nice, right, and be seen as when some yeah in my, my, I mean,
52:38
my wife, we, we started calling it, it's the cult of kindness.
52:41
And I will, I call people out.
52:43
I'm like, no, you sit here and say that, well, I'm just, I want to be kind.
52:48
You should just be kind.
52:50
I think I said this on a previous podcast.
52:53
There is nothing kind about allowing people to whistle their way to damnation.
52:58
There's nothing kind about that.
52:59
They don't even, they don't even mean kindness.
53:01
They just mean agreement.
53:02
That's it.
53:03
You know, cowardly.
53:04
Yeah.
53:05
Yeah.
53:06
Without opposition.
53:07
Agree, no matter what.
53:08
Yeah.
53:09
Yeah.
53:10
I'm just going to affirm you.
53:11
Yep.
53:12
All things are equal.
53:13
You know, all faiths are equal.
53:14
There's different paths to God.
53:15
No, there's really not guys.
53:16
That's a great thing to remind ourselves of what being loving actually means in practice.
53:23
Because people are like, that doesn't sound very loving.
53:25
Well, guess what?
53:27
If my child, if my one year old goes running off towards traffic and I yell at him as loudly
53:33
and as forcefully as I can to stop, to freeze to whatever, to eff and stop, whatever.
53:39
In that moment, that is the most loving thing I can do and in the most loving tone possible.
53:46
Because if I just calmly say, Elijah, buddy, I love you so much.
53:50
And because of that love, I would prefer it.
53:53
You know, I don't want to tell you what to do.
53:54
I want it to be your decision.
53:56
If you can stop running towards traffic, that would make daddy happy.
54:00
Can you make daddy happy?
54:02
Just think about that.
54:03
Now, of course, in that scenario, everybody would agree with me.
54:07
But then when we have a friend who has been convinced by the gender cult that they are
54:11
not the gender that they are, that they are not the sex that they are, that they were
54:16
a gender assigned at birth and somehow they're different and they live outside of the gender
54:20
binary now.
54:21
It is not loving to be like, sure, I'll use your chosen pronouns, pronoun hospitality.
54:27
It is so nefarious and it's born out of this cowardly affirmation approach to be like,
54:32
Hey, we're just going to go along to get along here.
54:35
And I just, man, I can't be down going going back to your analogy.
54:39
I think that this is to me, this is again, going back to the cult of kindness, which is
54:42
essentially just cowardice in my opinion.
54:45
But when you, when you going back to your analogy, here's what I find funny.
54:51
They don't want, they would, they don't want you to tell the kid to get out of the street.
54:58
The kid is happy.
54:59
He wants to do what he wants, let them do what they want.
55:01
And then what do they do?
55:03
Kid gets hit by a car.
55:04
They get mad at the person driving the car.
55:07
Right.
55:08
It's like, it's funny to me.
55:10
It's funny to me this, this whole kindness movement, how, how much they seem to be unkind
55:19
toward people who are trying to walk with Jesus.
55:21
Oh, sure.
55:22
Yeah.
55:23
The, the affirmation and the tolerance only works one direction, correct.
55:27
Because when they're like, I just want you to be tolerant.
55:29
I was like, okay, let's be tolerant.
55:31
Will you be tolerant of my ways of thinking?
55:33
Well, no, yours are bigoted and wrong.
55:35
I was like, all right.
55:36
Well, suck a duck.
55:37
I don't give a crap.
55:38
Like, you know, who, who give, you know, is that better?
55:40
Like a duck.
55:41
Is that, is that okay?
55:42
Is that acceptable?
55:43
I'm just going to look to you every time I say something that really pushes the line because
55:45
I want to say suck a bag of, you know, what's, and so, you know, it's, it's a little bit
55:48
better.
55:49
The FCC over here.
55:50
That's right.
55:51
You know, it depends on where the emphasis is.
55:52
Okay.
55:53
Um, so there's more sections to the end of Matthew 15 here.
55:56
So this is what we're going to do because I don't want us to, um, to short shrift any
55:59
part of scripture, even though we don't have time to fully discuss it.
56:02
So I do want us to, to read these last portions of scripture.
56:05
I'll, I'll make a couple of comments and then we'll get out of here.
56:07
So, um, we'll make sure that Caleb reads at the biggest section from his tiny Bible,
56:12
but Jake.
56:13
Oh, actually, Zach, if you can read, uh, Matthew 15 21 through 28, we don't need to talk about
56:20
why verse 22 isn't there, but, um, let's go ahead and go into that real quick.
56:24
So if you can just read 21 through 28, please.
56:27
And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sedon.
56:31
I think I said that right side instead of side and whatever and behold, a Canaanite woman
56:36
from that region came out and was crying, have mercy on me.
56:39
Oh Lord, son of David, my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon, but he did not answer
56:44
her a word and his disciples came and begged him saying, send her away for she is crying
56:50
out after us.
56:52
He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but she came and
56:57
knelt before him saying, Lord, help me.
57:00
And he answered, it is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.
57:06
She said, yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's
57:10
table.
57:11
Then Jesus answered her, Oh woman, great is your faith.
57:15
Be it done for you as you desire and her daughter was healed instant.
57:21
The one thing I want to mention about this story, and it's unfortunate we've run out
57:24
of time.
57:25
The part where he seems to call this woman a dog, people are like, this seems so harsh
57:30
and so mean like Jesus was Mr. mean pants.
57:33
So in this era, Jews thought Gentiles were dogs.
57:38
They were described as dogs and thought of in that way.
57:42
But the word that was used here, I think the word I wrote down here, it's like canaryon
57:47
or something like that, it's more like little dog or house pet.
57:51
And so he's almost talking to her like almost like, okay, puppy, like that type of thing.
57:56
And so a lot of people think he's being people have claimed that Jesus was racist.
58:00
I've literally heard I think Shane Claiborne that dope, like that's something that I think
58:03
he has said that Jesus, you know, express racist thoughts and they use this scripture.
58:08
It is deeply inaccurate.
58:10
So don't fall for that.
58:11
So that's just one thing I wanted to point out from this section, Winkler, if you can
58:14
hit 29 through 31, please.
58:20
Jesus went on from there and walked beside the sea of Galilee and he went up to on the
58:24
mountain and sat down there and great crowds came to him, bringing with them the lame,
58:29
the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others.
58:32
They put him at his feet and he healed them so that the crowd wondered when they saw the
58:37
mute speaking, the crippled healthy and the lame walking and the blind seeing, and they
58:42
glorified the God of Israel.
58:45
And then Caleb, if you would not mind reading versus 32 through the rest of the chapter,
58:50
which is verse 39, and Jesus called his disciples to him and said, I feel compassion for the
58:56
people because they have remained with me now three days and have nothing to eat and I do
59:00
not want to send them away hungry for they might faint on the way.
59:04
The disciples said to him, where would we get so many loaves in this desolate place to
59:08
satisfy such a large crowd?
59:10
And Jesus said to them, how many loaves do you have?
59:12
And they said, seven, a few small fish.
59:16
He directed the people to sit down on the ground and he took the seven loaves in the
59:19
fish and giving thanks, he broke them and started giving them to the disciples.
59:23
And the disciples gave them to the people and they all ate and were satisfied and they picked
59:27
up what was left over of the broken pieces.
59:31
Seven large baskets were full and those who ate were 4,000 men besides women and children
59:36
and sending away the crowds.
59:37
Jesus got into the boat and came to the region of Magadan.
59:41
And so just with this last section here, this is probably again 15 to 20,000 people total.
59:46
No one talks about the feeding of the 4,000, everyone likes to talk about the feeding of
59:50
the 5,000, that's typically what's depicted.
59:53
But the interesting thing about the feeding of the 5,000 is those were Jews.
59:57
And this is the feeding of the 4,000 and these were Gentiles.
1:00:01
Significance to 5,000 versus 4,000.
1:00:03
I don't really know.
1:00:04
I think everybody is just speculating.
1:00:06
The one speculation I do like about why there were seven loaves and a few small fish and
1:00:12
there were seven left over, seven is the number of perfection.
1:00:15
So we do see that number quite a bit.
1:00:17
So if, you know, the mark of the beast is 666, the number of heaven to 777, that type of
1:00:21
thing.
1:00:22
But again, I don't want to give short trip to all that stuff there at the end.
1:00:25
So that's something for you guys.
1:00:26
If you want to go ahead and dig in on your own, do that, but we're trying to keep things
1:00:30
to a tight hour here.
1:00:31
So there's more that could be said about Matthew 15, but we're going to leave it there.
1:00:34
But guys, make sure you come back here next week, prepare to hear us discuss Matthew 16.
1:00:39
And before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost and a thought to
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life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual
1:00:46
mental and physical resilience.
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Don't forget about the forging table starter set through crossway.
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All that is here on the show notes and the other link is to our donation page.
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Guys, if you're wondering how we can pull off things like the forging table, it's because
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we have monthly donors that are hopping on supporting us on a monthly basis, 10, $15,
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$100, $500, $500, it really doesn't matter.
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If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
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to info@undontan.life, that's i-n-f-o@undontan.life.
1:01:24
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including
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how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:01:31
Go to www.undontan.life and also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us
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to use their music for our content.
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The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
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on Face Down Records.
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The links are in the description.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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[music]