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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | Matthew 15 (Ep. 547)

December 31, 2023 1h 2m Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | Matthew 15 (Ep. 547)
0:00 / 1h 2m
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive deep into Matthew 15, where Jesus confronts the Pharisees about their traditions and emphasizes the importance of what comes from the heart. We explore the implications of His teachings on our lives, relationships, and the way we communicate, all while celebrating the milestones of manhood and faith.
Transcript
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0:50 This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast, I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:57 Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:58 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01 forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:04 At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:08 by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
1:11 with us.
1:12 We've got a bunch of veterans here, but a new crew, kind of a new mixture of crew here,
1:15 we got Zack, we got Winkler, we got Caleb, but guys, there's something that we need
1:19 to celebrate.
1:20 Okay.
1:21 Now there are moments in a man's life, you know, the first, when he moves out, his first
1:26 home run, first time he has sex with his wife, not like, like normally, or maybe what our
1:31 buddy Matt Grasmire of the Forging Table, he got to baptize his son this morning.
1:36 So congratulations, what an incredible, incredible thing.
1:39 And maybe we can debate whether or not you should ever let anyone baptize your children
1:43 other than you.
1:44 Maybe we can go there, but Caleb, my man Caleb walks in this morning with a Bible with his
1:50 name on it.
1:51 For those of you watching out there in TV land, it actually says your name on it.
1:54 And if you haven't been listening to Forging Table for any length of time, every other
1:57 time you've been on this show, you've had a wife that said, Shannon Martin on the front
2:02 of your Bible.
2:03 And so what was the deal like?
2:05 Did you just get this?
2:06 Like did we finally like this seems like a big deal?
2:08 Oh, it's not actually this, but this Bible is quite old, but it's tiny.
2:13 So I like her larger Bible.
2:15 I'm going to try and avoid the, I'm going to try to avoid the obvious here and say that
2:19 it does kind of look like a woman's handbag.
2:21 Yeah, it does have like a latch on it and it's very, what is this maroon?
2:26 Yeah.
2:27 Yeah.
2:28 Does it come with a shoulder strap?
2:29 That's what I want to know.
2:30 It is very cute.
2:31 But the thing is, is for today, you're going to have to read all of the Bible passages out
2:37 of the same thing.
2:38 I don't have a magnifying glass.
2:40 I don't have anything.
2:41 Are you, are you prepared to do that?
2:42 Okay.
2:43 Does everyone at the table have a Bible with their name on it?
2:45 That's like real people sized?
2:46 I don't think mine has, has my name written in it, but I don't think yeah.
2:51 Okay, Zach, you got on it.
2:53 You got, you got it like a fancy Bible.
2:55 Oh, you got one in front of him.
2:56 Okay.
2:57 So we've got the full gamut really covered here today.
2:59 So congratulations.
3:00 Okay.
3:01 I got that coming.
3:02 It's on the way.
3:03 But what, what people out there that are just listening to this, they don't know what
3:05 that is.
3:06 So how about you tell them what that is a crossway journal Bible.
3:09 Guys, who just got to tell you these journal Bibles are amazing.
3:12 Yes, they are.
3:13 Because like, again, so I don't know what it was like for you.
3:16 Guys, but like, even in college, I could not take a highlighter to my textbooks.
3:20 I could not write in it because that affected the resell value or whatever when you sold
3:24 it back to the bookstore for, you know, pennies, whenever you had to pay like $800 for like
3:29 the intro to psychology book.
3:31 But these, it literally has every single book of the Bible on the left side scripture on
3:35 the right side, just blank journal pages.
3:37 And I just bleed ink all over these things.
3:40 I think most of y'all like you bought the set.
3:43 Matt has a set.
3:44 Ryan has set.
3:45 What a set.
3:46 Why are you the only one?
3:47 Why do you have to just stick out and be like the only guy that doesn't do the thing?
3:50 Come on, do the thing.
3:51 I'll tell you why.
3:52 I used to take handwritten notes like that because I don't like to put anything in my
3:56 Bible either.
3:57 But in traveling, I had my briefcase stolen with all my notes, so I went digital because
4:02 I lost everything.
4:04 So I'm a hundred percent digital.
4:05 That's why.
4:06 Okay.
4:07 So whenever like society falls and the grid goes to crap, you're going to lose your notes
4:10 again.
4:11 I'll start writing in my Bible at that point.
4:12 Okay.
4:13 All right.
4:14 Sounds good.
4:15 I sold a handful of those down.
4:16 It should reach out.
4:17 Okay.
4:18 Well, you know, we'll actually do our little crossway commercial here at the beginning,
4:21 even though it's not actually a commercial because again, guys, we have partnered with
4:25 crossway and we don't get a dime for this setup.
4:28 We just wanted to do something that would be of major benefit to you guys.
4:32 And so a lot of people have reached out, Hey, I want to start my own forging table.
4:35 What do I need to do?
4:36 What do I need to buy?
4:37 And so I worked with Crossway to put together that set right there at the end of the table.
4:41 And so you guys can check that out.
4:42 That is the forging table starter set and includes five books and they are the ESV men's study
4:48 Bible knew this year, the book of Romans scriptural scripture journal edition.
4:52 So it's like this.
4:53 It's like these little journal Bibles, but it actually has the ESV study Bible notes.
4:57 The commentary there at the bottom.
4:59 There's also a book called the new morning mercies by Paul David trip.
5:02 That's a devotional.
5:04 The beauty and power of biblical exposition by Douglas O'Donnell.
5:07 He's been on the show before, but this gives you an idea of the different types of writings
5:10 that are inside the Bible and then a book by the one and only Vodie Bacham and that's
5:13 family shepherd.
5:14 So all five of those books together would cost you a pretty penny if you were to buy
5:17 them on Amazon or whatever, but you can get that entire set for 50% off.
5:22 You can buy every single one of those and you can get any one of the versions of the
5:25 ESV men's study Bible that you want.
5:27 So you can get the leather one.
5:28 You can just get the regular heart back one.
5:30 It's a super, super easy process on this guy.
5:32 So it's just a three step process.
5:34 You go to crossway.org and create your free crossway plus account, make sure you register
5:38 your account as well.
5:39 All this will be in the show notes guys.
5:40 So if you're driving, don't worry about it.
5:41 Just check it out later.
5:42 You just need to put all those books in your cart at once.
5:46 The links to the books are in the show notes as well.
5:47 And then the third step is just use the promo code BSSP 50 to get 50% off at checkout.
5:53 That is Bravo Sierra Sierra Papa five zero to get 50% off at checkout for that stack
5:58 right there guys, whatever tools you need, like I'm, I'm the guy that's like, Hey, you
6:03 don't need anything fancy.
6:04 Just get it done.
6:05 Right.
6:06 Like, Hey, you don't need to, you know, go to the fanciest global gym.
6:09 You just need to find a tree with like a horizontal limb and that's where you're going to do
6:12 your pullups.
6:13 But when it comes to Bible study, I don't care.
6:16 Like for me, all bets are off.
6:17 If getting these cute little journals is good, if you want like a purse Bible, like Caleb
6:22 has, I don't care, whatever you are able to get digital, digital written, you know, if
6:27 it's on tablets, I don't care.
6:29 Get the scripture as much as possible.
6:30 But today we are digging into Matthew 15.
6:33 And so Caleb, if you can find it in your heart and in that little thing that you call
6:39 a Bible, if you could please read Matthew 15 one through nine.
6:43 I cannot wait.
6:44 I'm going to act on my phone.
6:45 I wanted to take a picture while this was happening is double column two.
6:49 Okay.
6:50 Oh, no.
6:51 How?
6:52 How can you get two columns on that?
6:53 Wow.
6:54 You're going to make me read through nine.
6:56 Yeah.
6:57 You're reading the whole day.
6:58 So just get ready.
6:59 But yeah, Matthew 15 one through nine.
7:00 All right.
7:01 Here we go, then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, why
7:06 do your disciples break the tradition of elders?
7:08 For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.
7:11 And he answered and said to them, why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God
7:16 for the sake of your tradition?
7:17 For God said, honor your father and mother.
7:20 And he who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.
7:23 But you say, whoever says to his father or mother, whatever I have, that would help.
7:27 You have you has been given to God.
7:30 He is not to honor his father or his mother.
7:32 And by this, you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7:36 You hypocrites rightly did Isaiah prophecy of you, prophesy of you.
7:41 This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me.
7:44 But in vain do they worship me, teaching us doctrine, the precepts of men.
7:49 Yeah, there's a lot here.
7:51 I guess the first thing we should probably talk about is what were the Pharisees and scribes
7:56 trying to do here?
7:57 So when we talk about the Pharisees and the scribes or the Sadducees, you know, throughout
8:01 the gospels, like, I guess all to speak for me, I'm like, these guys must have just been
8:05 hanging around.
8:06 You know, like anytime you watch that after school special about those people that are
8:09 going to try to get you to smoke cigarettes, they just happen to be at that street corner
8:12 where you're waiting for the bus.
8:14 So that's where it kind of seems like this is happening.
8:16 But this was likely a formal investigative body that was sent there like on a mission
8:22 to do this.
8:23 So this wasn't just like a haphazard thing, like this was part of the plan.
8:26 Yeah, this is the equivalent, like the words when Jesus from Jerusalem, when they came
8:31 to him from Jerusalem, this is the equivalent of like the FBI showing up on your door instead
8:35 of the local police.
8:36 I mean, it's a bigger deal.
8:38 These guys are here to try and disrupt what he is doing specifically because they have
8:44 a whole lot of problems with the following that he's been getting.
8:46 I want to come out of the gate with something on this right away.
8:50 Let's go.
8:51 So this kind of hit me for some reason, like it hasn't before.
8:55 And they start asking these questions.
8:57 The very first thing he does is he says, and why do you break the commandment of God for
9:02 the sake of your tradition question mark?
9:05 And so it was interesting that he comes right back with this question.
9:09 So I want to just look into that for a minute.
9:11 And what I found in my research, if this is true, I think it is, it says Jesus is asked
9:16 183 questions in the gospels and he responds directly only three times.
9:22 So 180 times he responds with a question, a parable, an illustration, indirect statement
9:26 or silence.
9:27 And he's recorded asking 307 questions in the gospels.
9:33 So if we just take that for a second and think about it, it seems like he liked to answer
9:36 questions with questions or with parables.
9:39 And he would try to challenge and stretch the people through those circumstances with
9:42 how he was responding.
9:44 So how often do we pray for answers, right?
9:47 And in this context, perhaps we should consider that God will respond with something besides
9:52 direct answers.
9:53 Perhaps it's a question or circumstance or people that stir your heart or challenge
9:57 you to do various things in your life.
9:59 You've heard if you pray for humility, maybe God put you in a situation that will make
10:03 you humble or give you an opportunity to demonstrate humility, so forth.
10:08 So I just thought it was really interesting to think about that for a minute, especially
10:11 as we start the next couple of chapters and read through these because he does it every
10:16 single time.
10:18 And how is that impactful around us and our everyday lives?
10:21 Well, let me open that up for the rest of you guys.
10:24 In times where you've been in prayer or when you just feel like God talked to you, just
10:28 however he talks to you, whether it's through your gut or through your brain or whatever,
10:32 have you ever had a time where you feel like you were getting a question back?
10:35 Because as you were describing that, it's like, I feel like I knew that intellectually,
10:39 but it was like to hear you kind of bust it out, it's like, yeah, of course, that's how
10:42 he communicated all the time.
10:43 And it's a great, you know, sales tactic.
10:45 It's a great relational tactic to answer difficult questions with other questions.
10:49 But I can't really think of a time where I felt like I got a question back.
10:54 Is that something that's ever happened for you guys?
10:56 It hadn't happened for me.
10:57 I mean, honestly, every time I felt like I've heard from God, it's been pretty, you know,
11:03 it's been a command.
11:05 It's more of a, you know, I have this hesitation towards doing something.
11:09 And then there's just this voice that's basically shoving me forward or, you know, I don't want
11:16 to share something, I don't want to talk about something, and then, you know, I always describe
11:20 it.
11:21 It's like, I feel it like from my toes.
11:22 And there's just this shove that just is like, this is coming out of you.
11:27 Like this is not going to be something that you get to hold in.
11:31 You know, I've said it before, but there's this whole thing of, you know, when you are
11:35 tempted to hide, you should share when you're tempted to share, you should hide.
11:40 And in the idea of just taking that humility of, I'm not going to talk about this, because
11:48 you know, it would be shameful for me when it's like, well, but you should confess that.
11:53 On the flip side of that, it's, you know, I want everybody to know how great I am because
11:56 of this thing.
11:57 It's like, no, just keep your mouth shut.
11:59 Like there's no reason to, there's no reason to talk about that at that point because you're
12:02 itself a grandisening, it's prideful.
12:05 But for me, it's always just been more of a do this, you need to do this.
12:10 Now, sometimes it comes off as a riddle.
12:14 Yeah.
12:15 A lot of times it does for me, anyway, yeah, you seem, you seem like you're really confident
12:23 that you've heard that direction, which is, I mean, I think pretty awesome.
12:26 I think that's probably something that I struggle with more than anything else is trying to
12:30 be discerning about, you know, what, where am I being compelled to go and is that the
12:34 right thing to do?
12:35 And all of those types of things, but you seem pretty confident.
12:39 Maybe irrationally so, but I mean, it's, I don't know.
12:43 It's just something that, I mean, it's, it's gone on for a very long time.
12:47 I kind of know the signs.
12:49 It's generally surrounds like I'm weighing something on, I don't really want to do this.
12:55 And then there's this voice that just kind of comes in and says, you need to do this.
13:00 Well, that's, that's the way you communicate, like, yeah.
13:03 So coxuriness is like a good thing.
13:05 Like, if you're given that as a gift, like, because someone, we were talking to a group
13:09 of people yesterday and there were like three or four people that came up and spoke and
13:13 they were so sure of themselves.
13:15 And I was one of those people and it was like, for some crowds, that's like, oh, that's kind
13:19 of, that's, that's kind of offensive and it's a little bit abrasive and it's a little bit
13:23 too cocky.
13:24 And it's like, yeah, if it's fake, like if it's manufactured, but like, think about the
13:28 people in the Bible that were like that, again, they were coxured dudes and they were like,
13:33 those are, you know, the prophets.
13:34 Yeah.
13:35 And yeah, John the Baptist.
13:36 These are people that are.
13:37 Yeah.
13:38 Right.
13:39 And that's like when you're, if you're pulling off the pen to a grenade and getting ready
13:41 to throw it, that's not a subtle process, like, and you better be sure where you're throwing
13:45 it.
13:46 And so that's a helpful thing thinking through this, this chunk of scripture as well, but
13:50 also just when I start to feel feel, fear, say a call is when it's like, I start looking
13:56 at the rules because I'm great at following them.
13:59 Right.
14:00 I like to challenge why the rules are even there.
14:03 But if you put the rules in place, I'm going to do it.
14:05 But there's obviously every time you see these people, they're so focused on the details
14:09 or so focused on the law and the tradition.
14:13 And it's constantly getting in their way and it's causing them to blind themselves because
14:18 it's like you're, you're missing the fact that prophecy is being fulfilled before your
14:23 eyes and it's because of what you're focused on.
14:26 What's so great about this passage too is just the way that Jesus responds with how that,
14:31 how the truth exposes, right?
14:34 In that, I mean, they, they think they're always trying to trick him, right?
14:37 Or like, I'm going to, we're going to corner him with this question or that question.
14:40 It's like, oh, yeah.
14:41 But what about this?
14:42 And what about how, you know, you all give and give and give to the Lord, but you can't
14:48 even take care of your own father and mother because of it.
14:51 Right.
14:52 And a lot of people don't really understand like this part of the scripture, but ultimately
14:57 this would be like you saying, oh, I would totally care for my, my elderly parents.
15:01 I would care for them here in my home where I'd pay for them to be in a community close
15:05 by.
15:06 But you know what?
15:07 I've dedicated that money that was at earmarked for you guys for the Lord.
15:11 And so I'm just going to go ahead and let that be how that money is going to be spent.
15:15 And so that's what Jesus is referring to when he's going back to these people because it
15:19 was really a diabolical thing that they were doing because you're a full of crap like that,
15:23 like that they didn't dedicate it.
15:25 They did that so they wouldn't have to spend that money because here's the thing is they
15:28 didn't give the money to the church and then look at their parents and go, oopsie daisy.
15:32 You know, pockets turned out like I can't pay for this.
15:34 They kept the money.
15:36 So they had it in their possession and were able to use it and did use it.
15:40 But when it came to mommy and daddy, it was like, eh, you know, tough luck.
15:44 It's just a rough, rough thing.
15:47 Even indicative of how we treat these circumstances a lot.
15:50 Oh, yeah.
15:51 The other thing I was going to talk about, I want to talk about in these first nine passages
15:54 here is, you know, there's a lot of talk about tradition.
15:59 And I do think that we have a tendency to maybe get locked into certain traditions, maybe
16:04 even before we came to Christ, like there's these certain things that we just go and do.
16:08 I have, you know, maybe I have a trip.
16:10 I go on with my buddies every year or, you know, maybe my family likes to do this one
16:16 thing around the holidays every year and we get locked into it and then you should have
16:23 this, you know, once you commit your life to Christ, there's this transformation that
16:27 should occur.
16:28 And there should be an evaluation of the traditions that you are holding dear and saying, like,
16:32 this is something that I commit to doing.
16:34 I mean, it's, it's how I, it's what we do around this time of year, it's how the things
16:40 are done.
16:41 And there's an evaluation I think that has to be done after you commit to your.
16:46 But can we commit that following to, to following Christ once you get to that point, you have
16:51 to start evaluating these traditions on whether they are actual godly things.
16:56 And those traditions can include like the relationships you had before you came to Christ.
17:01 I mean, look, there are very old friends of mine.
17:04 I still talk to them.
17:05 I still have a relationship with them.
17:08 But do I still hang out with them like I used to?
17:10 Absolutely not.
17:11 It's too difficult to do.
17:14 They are not on the same walk as I am.
17:16 And it does come down to you have to find the people that are going, that you have to
17:21 surround yourself with people who can actually help you with your walk.
17:25 It's still okay to go out into the world and say, be that salt and light to those same
17:29 people.
17:31 Not saying that you have to completely withdraw, but you know what, if you have a tradition
17:35 that every time somebody goes, you know, gets married, that, well, the tradition is we go
17:39 to the strip club and we get drunk, you can't do that anymore.
17:42 Right.
17:43 And that's not being an ambassador for the faith.
17:46 Well, that's something that I find just a little short detour and then we'll get right
17:50 back on to this.
17:52 The odds of everyone at this table being at our funerals, like it's, if we all live to,
17:59 you know, life expectancy, the odds of us being at each other's funerals will, for one
18:03 of us, you've got to be the first to die.
18:04 So you're not going to go to anyone's funeral, but like it's, it's not, it's not, it's not
18:08 high.
18:09 Right.
18:10 So some people look at how I look at friendships and they're like, man, that's kind of a, kind
18:15 of a rough, like cut and dry way of thinking about it.
18:17 Like I've had friendships that were 25 plus years that basically went, went away for some
18:22 of the same things that you just described, Jake, and people like, why aren't you emotional
18:26 about that?
18:27 It's like, well, no, I got to have a friendship with that person for 25 years.
18:32 Like I wasn't going to be friends with them forever.
18:35 And some people are like, Oh, that's too utilitarian.
18:37 Like you're, you're using people and you just want people for certain seasons.
18:41 It's like, no, people just have seasons.
18:43 People move.
18:44 People get different jobs.
18:45 And the thing is, is like as much as you wish for your life to stay the same, if your
18:49 circumstances change, it's like, what are you grasping onto?
18:53 Yeah.
18:54 And like that's not super helpful.
18:55 And if you're trying to build a foxhole, it has to be with people that you are actually
18:58 accountable to.
18:59 So if you have your boys, you know, from high school or your frat brothers from college
19:03 or whatever, but if you don't even live in the same community as those people, if you
19:07 need an accountability partner, because you have a problem with porn, like having those
19:10 guys be that for you, like you're not, they're not consequential to your life anymore.
19:15 You don't even live in the same city.
19:16 That's right.
19:17 That doesn't mean you can't connect.
19:18 But go ahead.
19:19 So I agree with everything that both of you guys said, um, for me, after I gave my life
19:24 to Christ, that's one of the big, like pronounced things that happen as certain people went away
19:29 and new people came in.
19:30 Yep.
19:31 And it just happened.
19:32 One thing I'd say about that is in today's society, it's difficult to maintain relationships
19:36 for a long period of time, because people move around so much because modern society
19:39 enables that lots of studies have come out, including one from Harvard that demonstrated
19:44 that one of the key factors to a successful life, like a life that you feel satisfied
19:48 with, they followed a group of people for like 50 years was actually long-term relationships.
19:54 So putting yourself in circumstances where you can have those is tremendously important,
19:59 but you only have the capacity to do that with so many people.
20:01 I think about 150 is how many can maintain some sort of contact with but have decent relationships.
20:06 That's going to be very few.
20:07 Well, now, like the number, so that's the, you know, number of people that you can talk
20:11 to another name and remember the kid's names, but it's more like 12 is like the number of
20:16 people that you can really dedicate to.
20:18 What an interesting number, like, let's say the number of disciples that were called and
20:22 like that's, that's what sociology is telling us like one of my favorite things that happens
20:26 every year is when sociology catches up to the Bible, not your Bible Caleb is no one can
20:30 read this, but like, like it's so interesting when that happens because it's like, oh, you're
20:35 telling me one of the best outcomes for a child is for them to grow up in a family with a mother
20:41 and a father, siblings and attending church shock of all shocks like, you know, it's just
20:47 kind of one of those, those interesting things.
20:48 Well, and hopefully like when you, I mean, maybe last word on that was if you have those
20:52 long-term relationships, hopefully it's because you're both growing at the same rate or similar
20:57 rate.
20:58 They didn't even just in the same direction.
21:00 Exactly.
21:01 Like, so maybe you're on your Christian walk and someone's also on that walk, but they
21:04 just suck at it and you're better at it.
21:06 Well, like, you know, you kind of have a rabbit to chase or something, but like if you're,
21:10 it doesn't matter what rate, rate you're growing at if you're growing in opposite directions.
21:13 Right.
21:14 You know what I mean?
21:15 There's a lot of people that have been friends for a long time and they're the same as they
21:17 were, you know, I mean, it's like there may be a group of your high school buddies or
21:21 whatever and it's just like they were in high school doing the same stuff.
21:24 Yeah, one of the two like popular sayings, like you'll be the same person in five years
21:28 that you are today except for the books you read and people you meet.
21:31 And then you're the average of the five closest people around you.
21:33 So try to average up.
21:34 Right.
21:35 Oh, and I've said for a long time, you should always look at who you were five years ago
21:40 and be at least somewhat embarrassed.
21:42 Yeah.
21:43 Wait, I thought that I read books like that.
21:44 I listened to that pastor, like, you know, those types of things because whenever I look
21:48 back five years ago, I was still listening to any Stanley sermons every week and getting
21:52 a lot out of it and like doing those types of things like five years ago, there were
21:55 different physical modalities that if I were doing them now would be very deleterious to
21:59 my body.
22:00 And so it's like, gosh, I can't believe I used to do that type of stuff.
22:02 But it wasn't because I was being risky then is because I thought it was the right thing
22:05 to do.
22:06 And so that's all a good word for you guys when it comes to your relationships, but also
22:09 just your personal development and, you know, think about Bible study, like just this one
22:13 year, right?
22:14 And I know we're spending a lot of time on this first section, but this is important.
22:17 Remember why we started the forging table guys?
22:20 Because in 2022, I read 54 books for the podcast.
22:24 Gosh, I'm just a genius, right?
22:25 Oh, look at me.
22:26 Like I'm reading all these books and it's so fancy and I did not read 54 chapters of the
22:31 Bible.
22:32 And over Christmas break, I was like, like this is a major, major issue.
22:36 We need to throw this completely out of whack.
22:38 So this year I've been done a perfect job, but I'm going to end up reading 40ish books,
22:43 but it's spent a whole lot more time on the word and just seeing how my mind has changed
22:48 since January of 2022, when we started this thing to where I'm at today.
22:54 Like I can't imagine five years from now staying just on the forging table train, like having
22:58 something to study the scripture for sound come here and, you know, make a fool of myself.
23:03 It's already like changing and molding your brain and how you think about situations.
23:06 Yeah.
23:07 And I mean, to the point on the books, I was actually having a discussion with Matt Graspire
23:11 the other day about, you know, we were in a book club, we read these books and, you know,
23:16 everybody's like, well, I have a problem with this and, you know, most of them are all,
23:20 you know, faith-based.
23:21 It's we're trying to develop ourselves faithfully and pursue a, you know, pursue that walk
23:26 with Christ.
23:28 But I said in the chat that I was like, look, every one of these books is going to have
23:32 a flaw with it.
23:34 Every single one of them, because Matt Graspire says, well, you know, I have a problem with
23:37 the way that they use scripture here.
23:38 And I was like, well, every one of these books is going to have a flaw, but we have the perfect
23:42 book already.
23:43 We already have it.
23:45 We're reading all of these other things.
23:46 And if we're not spending time in the word, I mean, we could read all sorts of things,
23:52 be led down the wrong path, not see anything that would be heretical.
23:56 I mean, you know, yes, to the five years ago embarrassment.
24:00 Yeah, I read Andy Stanley books.
24:01 I mean, and it's like, I'm sure back then, I because I was not spending as much time here,
24:06 there's probably plenty that I was taking out of those books going, Oh, that's like,
24:11 that's deep and meaningful.
24:12 Right, Andy, Andy wouldn't lead me astray.
24:15 I think we know better now.
24:17 One last thing.
24:18 And then I'll be quite on this.
24:19 But one thing that hit me is I was preparing for this is it kind of interrupted the time
24:23 that I spend on my typical Bible reading, which is trying to read through this whole
24:27 thing.
24:28 A certain period of time, all that.
24:29 And as a result of that, I definitely got this sense that I was spending my time because
24:33 there's a lot of other things happening right now, just preparing and not using it as an
24:36 actual bear time.
24:39 This actually hit me.
24:40 And so I've tried to be very diligent about breaking this up and praying about it as I
24:45 would with my normal time getting prepared.
24:48 So I guess just as a personal example, if you are doing something like this, make sure
24:51 that you're doing it because this is an actual living book, not just like a normal book that
24:56 you would read.
24:57 This is God talking to you.
24:58 So spend the time praying and doing all the things you ought to be doing.
25:00 Well, there's there's something to that is that going back to this section in verse six.
25:04 So for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
25:09 You can make a tradition out of reading some pretty dope books that aren't the Bible.
25:14 There's a stack of them right there.
25:15 There's one Bible.
25:16 There's one Bible journal and then three books that are not scripture.
25:19 They got scripture all the way through them, but I had lulled myself into this tradition
25:23 of reading biblical books, but I also had this bad habit of whenever they would have
25:29 that little indentation and then like a short, you know, scripture, you know, here's four
25:34 or five scriptures in a row.
25:35 I would just skip it.
25:36 Oh, I know that scripture.
25:37 And then I would go back to the meat or whatever the author was saying.
25:39 It's like dad gummy like what I'm skipping the point.
25:43 Yeah.
25:44 Like imagine watching a movie, but it's like, no, I don't want to see the conclusion.
25:47 I just want to see the build up, right?
25:49 Like you're skipping the point of what you're reading.
25:51 Well, see, as Lewis says, or Spurgeon says, I used to do that.
25:55 I read every one of those books.
25:56 Right.
25:57 What is he saying about what?
25:58 Like read the actual source when it's, it's great to read Spurgeon and Lewis and Kierkegaard
26:05 and GK Chesterton and, and, and, and we have a book list on our website, the one hundred
26:09 books every modern Christian man should read lists.
26:11 You know, it's not on there at the Bible, not because the Bible is not the most important
26:13 book.
26:14 The Bible is a library, right?
26:16 And so if you're, you already know the Bible thing, I'm trying to give you other things
26:19 that will help you kind of be a well-rounded man in modernity into where you can be equipped
26:22 to be able to push back darkness.
26:24 But again, in this situation with the Pharisees, this investigative crew, they were, they were
26:29 focusing on tradition because that's where they thought they could nail Jesus.
26:33 And Jesus was like, no, you're focusing on something else, not the actual point.
26:38 Let's get into this next, next section for me.
26:40 This next section of Matthew 15 was probably the, the most potent.
26:43 So somebody with a normal size Bible, if you would like to read, uh, verses 10 through
26:48 20 and he called the people to him and said to them here and understand it is not what
26:55 goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth.
26:59 This defiles a person.
27:01 When the disciples came and said to him, do you know that the Pharisees were offended
27:06 when they heard this saying?
27:08 He answered, every plant that my heavenly father has not planted will be rooted up.
27:13 Let them alone.
27:14 They are blind guides.
27:15 And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.
27:19 But Peter said to him, explain the parable to us.
27:23 And he said, are you also still without understanding?
27:26 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?
27:32 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart and this defiles a person for out
27:37 of the heart comes evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false
27:43 witness, slander.
27:45 These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.
27:51 So with this in, I'm keeping an eye on the clock because we have, we have other sections
27:55 here that I want to get into, but I feel like we need to break this down, like into little
27:59 subsections because there's so many little points here.
28:02 So verse 10, and he called the people to him and said to them, here and understand it in
28:06 then verse 11, it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes
28:09 out of the mouth, this defiles a person.
28:11 Okay.
28:12 So let's just camp there for just a second.
28:13 I have seen people use this scripture as an excuse for, I'm going to eat whatever I want.
28:19 And God can't tell me any better because that's not going to defile me, right?
28:23 Or you know what, I got this email just a couple of months ago, instead of exercising
28:28 and focusing on my diet, I'm going to spend more time in prayer.
28:32 That's what I'm going to do.
28:33 And I'm like, let's just say I believed you.
28:35 Let's just say, and I have my doubts.
28:38 It's like you're cutting off years of prayer, you know, all things being equal because you're
28:44 not caring for yourself and caring for your body.
28:47 And so that's just something that that stuck out to me.
28:49 I don't know if y'all have ever heard something like that.
28:50 This isn't like a popular thing in modernity, but I've certainly heard people use that that
28:54 they want to focus on the holy part of it and be like, you know what?
28:57 I'm just going to be holy and then don't look at me as I, you know, drink my milkshake
29:00 kind of thing.
29:01 Have any of y'all heard that?
29:03 No.
29:04 Zach, why are you looking at me like disappointed father?
29:05 I mean, I'm over here thinking like, why was Kyle staring at me the entire time I wasn't
29:11 staring at you?
29:12 I gave equal time to everybody except for Caleb because he's kind of to my right.
29:14 And I can't exactly see him when I talk in, but before it gets any more awkward, I want
29:17 to know where the judgment's coming from, Zach.
29:19 You're looking at me like you're disappointed.
29:20 What?
29:21 It's not you.
29:22 I'm just listening to the, you know, your, your, what you're, what you're contending
29:24 with.
29:25 Whatever.
29:26 Okay.
29:27 Yeah.
29:28 Then verse 12, then the disciples came and said to him, do you know that the Pharisees
29:29 were offended.
29:30 hilarious.
29:31 I literally wrote L.O.L. over offended.
29:33 It's like, you mean people that are professionally offended by everything got offended?
29:35 No way.
29:36 And when they, when they heard this saying he answered every plant that my heavenly father
29:39 has not planted will be rooted up and in the first verse 14, let them alone.
29:46 They are blind guides, and if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.
29:51 Like he's basically saying, well, not basically he is saying the Pharisees were not planted
29:55 by God.
29:58 And I think about people, we just mentioned Annie Stanley, and again, I don't want this
30:00 to be a non to life of man's podcast to turn into a Stanley sucks hour.
30:05 But you know, it's these people that have not been rooted by God, they will be pulled
30:10 out.
30:11 They will be rooted and not planted by God rather.
30:13 And so that's kind of cold comfort for me a little bit to where it's like, you know,
30:18 I, I told people when I talked to a guy today who in my Sunday school, whose daughter goes
30:22 to one of Andy Stanley's churches and they are just torn to pieces about and they don't
30:27 know what to do because they want to keep the relationship with daughter and grandkids
30:30 and you know, the whole nine, but they're terrified for how they're being marinated.
30:34 And I said, look, you should have two prayers.
30:37 Number one, that Andy Stanley repents for his behavior and the things that he said.
30:41 And number two, if he does not, that he should lose his ministry for him to be rooted up.
30:47 And I think that's an okay thing.
30:48 Some people again, seems a little rough, but like that this, this is comforting to me that
30:54 these people that drive me so nuts that have such big followings that are potentially leading
30:58 people down the primrose path to hell, that it's okay.
31:00 It's going to work out in the end.
31:02 Well, in three that they could just find another church, right?
31:05 Yeah, because they could control that now.
31:07 That would probably be a big one.
31:09 I've had this discussion recently with some close family members.
31:12 And I think the one thing that stuck out to me, because they were describing their experience
31:15 trying to find churches was just the of the ones that they mentioned, nobody was just
31:20 going through the books and reading through the passages.
31:23 It was always, as you say, you know, Ted dogs sprinkled with Bible versus kind of a thing.
31:27 And I'm so sheltered from that given our local church experience that it's kind of alien
31:31 at this point.
31:32 For me, when I hear them say it, I'm like, man, the whole sermon that day was just around
31:36 how much money they'd raised and what their plans were without having any sort of meaningful,
31:41 you know, biblical message.
31:44 So and one thing that I think is important to this real quick, Caleb.
31:47 One thing that they that I think is important to this is there are expository churches that
31:52 will periodically take breaks to do things that are topical that are pertinent to something.
31:57 For instance, during the Thanksgiving, you know, time period of, you know, the last time we
32:02 had Thanksgiving, our church did like a one week thing on like Thanksgiving.
32:05 You know, if you're hitting the Proverbs, that can be something you can kind of pop into
32:08 and pop out of.
32:10 But for the most part of the 52 sermons delivered in a year, 45 of them roughly are going to
32:17 be expositorly going from chapter to chapter, or, you know, from verse to verse through chapters
32:22 of different books of the Bible, but we're going to say, Caleb, I don't remember.
32:26 But dad, go and Kyle, I mean, you know, even like a deviation from whatever we're going
32:33 through because some prophetical thing happened in the world, right?
32:38 You know, that it's like to take a break to talk about, okay, here's what everyone's
32:40 thinking about.
32:41 So we're going to talk about it and how it relates to scripture.
32:43 So I mean, I totally agree.
32:45 Like you'd end up, if you went to a church that wasn't that way, it would, it would stick
32:49 out.
32:50 I mean, you'd see it from, you know, you'd be five minutes into the sermon and say what's
32:53 going on.
32:54 And one shout out to Mark Hitchcock, who's the pastor of our church, because he's big
32:57 on end time stuff and revelation, and when Hamas attacked Israel, it didn't matter what
33:04 was the plan and what it was going to do for the schedule for the next calendar year.
33:08 He talked about that.
33:10 And he, he's not a lighted up guy.
33:13 He's just not.
33:14 He's very even killed.
33:15 He's very consistent.
33:16 He's very predictable.
33:17 He lit it up that day, not by screaming and hollering and banging his, his, you know, hands
33:22 on, on everything.
33:23 It was just truth bombs on top of truth bombs.
33:25 And that was the same week that I taught Sunday school and it was kind of interesting because
33:29 I taught on the same subject matter.
33:31 And I went really deep into the, the depth of the depravity, what happened during that
33:35 time period.
33:36 And a lot of the nuggets of information were immediately echoed by him once we all went
33:41 into the service.
33:42 And so it was kind of good that it's like, okay, there are ways to deal with the situation
33:46 like this that don't involve, you know, covering your eyes and plugging your ears, which is
33:49 nice.
33:51 Another quick point on verse 14, when it says, let them alone, that this is like the abandonment
33:56 of God as a form of wrath.
33:58 So that's what a John MacArthur said in his commentary.
34:02 And this is similar to Romans one 18 through 22, where it's like, give them over to their
34:05 own sin.
34:06 So he's like, Hey man, if the blind want to lead the blind, let them, let them fall into
34:10 that stupid pit that I put there just for those little idiots.
34:13 That's kind of what I'm God's probably not going to say it that way.
34:15 But it's just a translation.
34:16 Zach.
34:17 Okay.
34:18 Stop looking at me with such disappointment.
34:19 Okay.
34:20 That's a good section here.
34:21 This is good for people that are dumb like me.
34:23 Peter's like, explain the parable to us.
34:27 And this is one of those opportunities that we get to read the scripture as if Jesus had
34:32 a personality because he did he responded.
34:35 And this is how most people would read it.
34:37 And he said, are you also still without understanding?
34:40 Do you not see that?
34:41 Whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled.
34:45 Do you think that's how he said it?
34:47 Everybody out there?
34:48 Because that's how it's read.
34:49 I think of him as being super sarcastic right now.
34:52 And he's like, are you kidding me?
34:54 Is this still happening?
34:55 Right.
34:56 It's somewhere between problems like sarcasm showing him, right?
34:59 You know, it goes down and used.
35:02 When I use these words, this is what they're meant to portray to you.
35:05 But like he was somewhere between sarcastically frustrated to just outwardly frustrated like,
35:11 am I still, are y'all still not getting this?
35:14 And so that's just kind of as a, as an aside here, I love whenever you get the personality
35:18 of Christ, when you're reading through this, right?
35:21 It's just interesting to me that he spends so much time talking about sort of spiritual
35:27 things, right, things that, that, that originate on the inside and come outside.
35:32 It seems like in our tangible world, that's kind of given, you know, second thought.
35:36 Whereas in his, it seems like what he talks about, it's always that first and then followed
35:40 by whatever the physical, tangible, tangible thing is, including when he's healing people.
35:45 You know, your sins are forgiven.
35:46 Okay, if that's not enough, now you can get up and walk kind of a deal.
35:49 So we'll talk more about it later, but it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently.
35:54 I think, I think what we're seeing here is Jesus was far less concerned with the surface
36:01 level of the law, like the external things, the things that you're going to actually show
36:07 and do your works, if you will, from the former Catholic in the, in the group.
36:14 He's much less concerned with that.
36:16 He's much more concerned with on the, what's on the inside.
36:19 He's more concerned with, I mean, the theme here is the centrality of the heart in your
36:26 walk with Christ.
36:28 If the inside is rotten, it does not matter what you do on the outside.
36:33 It's going, I mean, just like fruit, the inside is rotten.
36:37 It doesn't matter how pretty it is on the outside.
36:39 The inside is rotten.
36:41 You can't, and you may not be able to see it, but it's there.
36:44 And that's one thing for the community that, that we're in as well is we go to a pretty
36:48 church.
36:49 I will say that there are a bunch of good looking people.
36:52 We got models like this guy here to my right with those baby blues and that wonderful winning
36:55 smile.
36:56 That's why they don't let me come.
36:58 Yeah.
36:59 No ogres at our church, Jacob.
37:01 We have like a height risk, it's like, like we have a very well put together church.
37:07 The families are, are well-dressed mothers and fathers are well-dressed.
37:11 A lot of the moms have had work done and it's like we all look great, but it's that exact
37:16 thing that I try to remind myself of because I will get lulled to sleep by the amount of
37:20 put togetherness that's around me.
37:23 And I try to be authentic, but at the same time, the number of times that my wife had
37:26 been at each other's throats in the car, in the parking lot before we get out so that
37:32 we can skip into church and hey, how's it going?
37:34 What?
37:35 Oh, you're here to worship the Lord.
37:36 And it's just kind of like that that's where the community thing going back to those real
37:41 relationships, those 12 or so that you have in your life.
37:45 Those people where you can sit around a fire with a cigar in a drink or at a restaurant
37:49 or a round of Bible study, your own forging table and to be able to just lay it out there
37:53 and be like, here's an enormous mistake I made here recently.
37:57 That is incredibly embarrassing.
37:59 Here's a tremendous sin that I'm still, you know, reckoning with or focusing on or needing
38:03 to get better at.
38:05 So a couple of quick things here on this section again, I know we have more in Matthew 15,
38:11 but in verse 18, but what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart and this defiles
38:16 a person.
38:18 What this does ultimately lead to is a discussion about cussing, right?
38:22 The types of words that we use.
38:24 Now I have heard every argument there is about cussing, at least I hope not because I'm still
38:32 confused about the issue because you can't go to the scripture and find a list of words
38:37 that are unable to be spoken.
38:39 Yeah.
38:40 Right.
38:41 You know, you have what is it?
38:42 The FEC or whatever that controls the words you can say on the radio or the words that you
38:45 can say on television and those different things like, okay, and if you say too many of these
38:49 words now it's an R-rated movie there.
38:51 There's all that kind of stuff.
38:52 And by the way, that's not a course light.
38:54 That is a jocko go energy drink being popped by the Winkler right now, but I don't know
38:59 what to do about cussing because I've been around devout Christians that are in the
39:03 word that are praying all the time that cuss like a sailor.
39:06 I was around one last night.
39:07 He's a firefighter in the state of New York and it's just like he's Italian and he's Irish
39:12 and he's just like these are just the words he says.
39:15 And then there are the people that are squeaky clean.
39:17 They don't even say sucks.
39:19 They don't even say gosh darn it because gosh darn it means something else that is blaspheming
39:23 the name of God like those types of things.
39:25 I don't know what to tell a young Christian or a new Christian about this.
39:30 And I haven't heard a compelling argument from somebody about why they should or shouldn't
39:36 what words are acceptable or what tonality they should use.
39:39 I mean, I guess I always, my perspective has always been why are you saying them?
39:46 I mean, is this coming from, you know, because to me it's like, I don't know that the words
39:51 themselves are sinful.
39:53 I mean, if you just said one, just randomly out of context, like as an example, as an
39:59 example, which ones are you going to use as a fun little as a fun little game as a fun
40:05 little game.
40:06 There is a word like the French pronounce seal as the F word.
40:13 Okay, literally like seal like the animal.
40:16 Yes.
40:17 Like, okay.
40:18 Yes.
40:19 I mean, look at that little, yeah, it's exactly biggest mistake I made was actually sharing
40:26 that with my daughters.
40:27 Because now they're like, you know, well, this is just, you know, this is just a seal.
40:31 I mean, you know, but the, the idea, like, I mean, I'm going, okay, well, I'm, oh, let's
40:37 say I'm over in France and I see a seal.
40:39 And then I say the F word.
40:40 I don't think that the word itself is going to necessarily be sense.
40:45 Why am I saying it and where is, where is the heart in that matter?
40:49 It's the same thing.
40:50 I think, think here when you talk about is Jesus more concerned about the external or
40:55 the internal.
40:56 Okay.
40:57 Let me dig into that just a little bit.
40:58 So let's go to the word that is the most persona non grata word in modernity.
41:03 And that is the N word, insert Louis C K joke.
41:06 If you know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about, but I have used that
41:10 word before in a very specific context and I've talked about this before, but in my dormitory,
41:16 we had a debate in our lobby about the use of that word in all of its forms, the hall
41:21 director whom I happened to work for.
41:23 I was a senior RA there were eight RAs underneath me or seven and then he was, he was my boss.
41:27 He was a black man shouldn't be relevant to the story, but it is.
41:30 So we sat in a group with probably a couple of dozen students and we, we talked about
41:34 that word openly.
41:36 And several of us used the, the fullness of that word to talk about the ethmology of
41:41 the word and where it came from.
41:43 And there were several people of color scare quotes that were in the room and nobody was
41:48 offended that the word was being used.
41:50 And when it was being called that, no one was being pointed out and they, they weren't
41:54 using it with the hard R or the A or any of that type of stuff.
41:58 But then there are people that have literally lost their jobs for doing the same thing in
42:01 a, in a modern college describing the ethmology of award or just saying.
42:06 There shouldn't be words that can't be spoken, right?
42:09 This isn't like, anyway, so there, there's that, that side of it.
42:12 That's the extreme side, but then let's take the F word.
42:16 If you're like, God, that effing sucks or you stub your toe and you scream the F word or
42:21 I effing hate that guy or you're an effing moron.
42:24 Where is the line on each one of those as to how it can be used and when it goes over
42:30 the threshold of sin folks, you could be, you could be like, that's effing amazing.
42:33 You baptized your son.
42:34 You know what I mean?
42:35 I don't really know where it stops with Zach.
42:39 Go ahead.
42:40 This is written several thousand years ago, right?
42:42 Right.
42:43 What Kyle just said.
42:44 Right.
42:45 I've been baptized my son.
42:46 So the amount of, the amount of transformation and language and intent and all the, you know,
42:50 the meanings behind the words has changed, you know, thousands of times, but it's still
42:54 relevant.
42:55 I was reading Proverbs, I think yesterday and one passage that stuck out was something
42:59 around, and I can't, I couldn't find much one, but I could look it up later.
43:03 But it basically amounted to the way that you speak could either be like sword thrusts
43:08 into a person, or it could be used to build them up.
43:11 And obviously it's saying that we should be building people up.
43:14 So when I think about it, I don't go to the specifics of the word, you go to the intention
43:17 behind the word, like you're saying, and what the context is, I mean, Christians were freed.
43:23 They weren't, they didn't have to adhere to whatever the ceremonial, you know, food situation
43:28 wasn't all that, but it does say, try not to offend people around you.
43:31 So I don't know about the specific words.
43:34 I would imagine that if you're in certain circumstances, you could probably say some
43:37 words and you know that you're not thrusting somebody.
43:39 But if you say it around grandma or something like that, you probably are, and they kind
43:43 of built in this, this sort of self guiding element to this, you'll know when you're crossing
43:48 a line more than likely.
43:49 I mean, it's got to be the hard behind it.
43:52 Yeah.
43:53 That's, that's the only explanation that actually makes sense, you know, and I mean, even like
43:56 you're saying, like based on the audience, you know, even, even the N word, like you're
44:01 talking about in certain groups of people, it means something totally different.
44:04 Right.
44:05 You know, it's like, I mean, in a, in a certain group of people, they're doing a certain
44:08 thing and someone says, and it's totally acceptable.
44:10 Oh, I mean, walk, walk the streets of London and ask someone like, Hey, can I bum a [inaudible]?
44:16 Like they're not talking about a physical act.
44:19 They're, they're asking for a cigarette.
44:21 Right.
44:22 Right.
44:23 And like that, that's just kind of a common thing that if we hear that right now, we are
44:25 going to get whiplash turning around to be like, Oh my gosh, what's, there's literally
44:29 about to be a gay bashing happening, but it's just the context of the language.
44:32 But I want to dig into that a little bit further because I'm kind of surprised by, by your,
44:37 the way you describe that, Zach, because this, this would probably be a year ago now, but
44:42 there was a story of this gay married couple that adopted these two young boys and they
44:47 were systematically horing these boys out to their other pedophilic gay friends and
44:54 raping them themselves.
44:56 And there were messages that were part of the court documents where, you know, this
45:02 guy is texting one of his buddies and he goes, Hey, I need to go F my son real quick.
45:06 I'll holler, I'll holler back at you that type of stuff.
45:09 And so I was for the sake of covering the content, I was going to use the exact words
45:16 that were in the transcript and I was not going to sanitize anything, right?
45:20 And I have not broken the F word barrier on my show at that point.
45:24 So I asked a couple of people that I thought could soberly because I knew the people that
45:28 were going to be like, yeah, frickin say it, man, I knew those people.
45:30 So I didn't go to them.
45:31 I went to other people.
45:33 And so one of those people was Zach, you're not like the gung ho guy.
45:35 You're like the, the quiet, contemplative guy.
45:38 And you advise me, he said, no, I don't think you should do it.
45:42 I don't think it adds to what you're doing.
45:45 So if you say the actual word, or if you just say the implied word, I don't think it, it
45:50 gives any, any less or more, um, I completely disagreed with your standpoint, but for whatever
45:57 reason, I just rolled with it.
45:58 I made the decision that when I got to that point of the show that I was going to make
46:02 the decision in the moment, and in the moment I chose not to use the words.
46:07 And so of all the context, to use something to point out the depravity and darkness, a
46:12 man, that would have been one to use it as opposed to some other flippin thing.
46:16 So help me kind of connect maybe where you were in terms of giving me advice back then
46:21 to where you, what you just said, cause I'd like my grandma to recommend your podcast.
46:26 She may be listening, you know, just as a quick answer.
46:29 I don't think that the word specifically in that context was going to add any value on
46:33 her understanding of what you were trying to communicate.
46:36 If you're in a private setting with a group of people where, you know, they don't, they're
46:40 not going to be offended by it.
46:41 I think it's probably okay.
46:42 This is just my opinion.
46:43 I'm sure people have a thousand opinions, but I stand by what I said then.
46:47 And I think that's why, just because it's, it's relative to your audience, which from
46:51 your perspective is relatively unknown.
46:53 Does your grandma listen to my show?
46:55 I don't know.
46:56 She, I have a feeling she'd be out on the metal, uh, right at the very beginning of the show.
47:00 She could be metalheads.
47:01 Some of these grandma's get down.
47:05 She'll be in the pit and her hit their walker and tennis balls and everything sitting on
47:08 there.
47:09 Okay.
47:10 So does anybody have anything else on the coasting thing?
47:11 And again, I, you know, I, we didn't come up with a, a clean answer on this either, but
47:16 it, it's just something that I think about a lot.
47:18 I don't take it to cussing so much as I do, because I know this can be hard for some
47:22 people.
47:23 I do think that we're supposed to be building people up with our words, right.
47:27 And not necessarily tearing them down.
47:29 Sometimes it's constructive criticism.
47:31 And you can, and you can tear people up and down and have zero cuss words.
47:36 Smile on your face as kindly as possible.
47:38 You don't have to.
47:39 Yeah.
47:40 For sure.
47:41 And I think the thing that, you know, I think about too, is like if around our kids, it
47:44 feels different, you know, like we should also say, like if, if I'm at a football game
47:51 or wherever I am and someone's just, you know, lighting it up behind me, like I might ask
47:54 them.
47:55 Right.
47:56 I don't know.
47:57 Just throwing that out there.
47:58 I think that's absolutely the correct context.
48:01 I remember when I used to work in New York City and I'd worked this place for like six
48:05 months and, you know, we're at some party and people had had a few drinks and one of the
48:09 guys go, I've never heard you say cuss word, well, you think you're better than us or something.
48:13 And I just kind of go, cussing's kind of indicative of a lack of vocabulary.
48:17 Yep.
48:18 And I just kind of left it there because this guy was kind of a [inaudible].
48:21 And so I wanted to embarrass him because he was trying to embarrass me.
48:23 So that's what I did at the time.
48:25 But that's kind of the thing.
48:26 It's like, if you, some people will default to, you know, vulgar language, what we would
48:32 all agree would be vulgar because they don't have a grasp on, on vocabulary.
48:38 They don't have a grasp on how to create a statement that doesn't have to go there.
48:42 So it was a sword thrust, but without a cuss word.
48:45 Well, whenever I went back at him, it was like, it was basically like translation.
48:49 You're a moron.
48:50 I'm smarter than you.
48:51 That's basically what that was.
48:54 The other part I want to talk about here and, you know, we can spend as much time as we
48:57 want on this, but this is Jesus was words again in verse 19, for out of the heart come
49:03 evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false, false witness, slander.
49:11 So to the Carl lenses of the world, to the Christians in the world that said, you know
49:15 what?
49:16 I'm a red letter Christian, as if the entire Bible's not read letters because of the triune
49:21 nature of God, but leaving that aside.
49:24 And then when I searched the red letters, I don't see the word homosexual and I'll see
49:29 the word gay.
49:30 I don't see the word lesbian.
49:31 I don't see the word bisexual.
49:32 I don't see any of that.
49:34 So you know what?
49:36 Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality and homosexual relationships.
49:38 So I won't either breaking news for you guys.
49:42 The ancient Galilean Aramaic language that Jesus used was way more descriptive using less
49:49 words than the current English language that we have the Greek that I was recorded in or
49:54 the Hebrew that I was recorded in, you could say in a few sentence or in a few words what
49:58 takes sentences in English today.
50:01 In sexual immorality in the words that you Jesus spoke and in the words that it was recorded
50:07 in, everyone in the audience would have recognized what he meant by this word, the ancient Greek
50:12 word is Pornea or Purnia, which talks about homosexuality, bestiality, but basically any
50:19 type of sex that is outside of the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman
50:23 for life.
50:24 And he separated that out into its own category, right, adultery, right, right.
50:29 So he's talking about everything else.
50:31 And that's that's really a fantastic point.
50:34 And so if you're wondering, guys, I think make notes in your Bible how you want to.
50:39 I think this is a big highlight, big underlying thing.
50:43 You highlight where it says sexual immorality there because one of the most nefarious things
50:48 that Satan is doing in modernity is he is allowing these liberal minded folks to lift
50:54 up their version of scripture and they are trying to convince you that 2000 years after
50:58 the fact, they have some sort of Gnostic knowledge of what this word actually meant in the context
51:05 of, you know, the first century in, you know, in, in these Jewish areas.
51:10 It's a it's a concerted effort that every sexual relationship is equally moral.
51:15 Sure.
51:16 All of them.
51:17 Absolutely.
51:18 Right.
51:19 I think that just that's saying.
51:20 Exactly.
51:21 I mean, that's that's where they're trying to go with it.
51:22 It's our it's our worldly understanding at this point and our new morality that we have
51:29 established.
51:30 It's not based on anything.
51:31 It's completely subjective and that, you know, 20 years ago, what was deemed completely
51:37 unacceptable is now become acceptable.
51:40 And now what where's the next stop?
51:43 You know, 20 years from now, what are we going to be looking at?
51:46 I think it's I think when you start talking about, I mean, I actually wrote down in here
51:51 like, even just the, you know, I've heard people talk about, you know, well, when Jesus
51:57 was here, he hung out with the sinners.
52:00 And so he would not hang out with you guys.
52:03 He would hang out with us.
52:04 It's like, okay, but do you think he's going to be doing everything that you're doing?
52:10 No, he would have pity on you.
52:13 He would want to forgive you.
52:15 He would want he would tell you to go and sin no more.
52:17 Exactly.
52:18 Call your two repentance.
52:19 You still go back to, again, centrality of the heart here.
52:23 Okay.
52:24 Sexual immorality.
52:25 And I'm going to suddenly get back to this whole cult of kindness.
52:28 Why are people basically equating this?
52:31 Well, it's not immoral anymore.
52:33 Well, because I want to be nice, right, and be seen as when some yeah in my, my, I mean,
52:38 my wife, we, we started calling it, it's the cult of kindness.
52:41 And I will, I call people out.
52:43 I'm like, no, you sit here and say that, well, I'm just, I want to be kind.
52:48 You should just be kind.
52:50 I think I said this on a previous podcast.
52:53 There is nothing kind about allowing people to whistle their way to damnation.
52:58 There's nothing kind about that.
52:59 They don't even, they don't even mean kindness.
53:01 They just mean agreement.
53:02 That's it.
53:03 You know, cowardly.
53:04 Yeah.
53:05 Yeah.
53:06 Without opposition.
53:07 Agree, no matter what.
53:08 Yeah.
53:09 Yeah.
53:10 I'm just going to affirm you.
53:11 Yep.
53:12 All things are equal.
53:13 You know, all faiths are equal.
53:14 There's different paths to God.
53:15 No, there's really not guys.
53:16 That's a great thing to remind ourselves of what being loving actually means in practice.
53:23 Because people are like, that doesn't sound very loving.
53:25 Well, guess what?
53:27 If my child, if my one year old goes running off towards traffic and I yell at him as loudly
53:33 and as forcefully as I can to stop, to freeze to whatever, to eff and stop, whatever.
53:39 In that moment, that is the most loving thing I can do and in the most loving tone possible.
53:46 Because if I just calmly say, Elijah, buddy, I love you so much.
53:50 And because of that love, I would prefer it.
53:53 You know, I don't want to tell you what to do.
53:54 I want it to be your decision.
53:56 If you can stop running towards traffic, that would make daddy happy.
54:00 Can you make daddy happy?
54:02 Just think about that.
54:03 Now, of course, in that scenario, everybody would agree with me.
54:07 But then when we have a friend who has been convinced by the gender cult that they are
54:11 not the gender that they are, that they are not the sex that they are, that they were
54:16 a gender assigned at birth and somehow they're different and they live outside of the gender
54:20 binary now.
54:21 It is not loving to be like, sure, I'll use your chosen pronouns, pronoun hospitality.
54:27 It is so nefarious and it's born out of this cowardly affirmation approach to be like,
54:32 Hey, we're just going to go along to get along here.
54:35 And I just, man, I can't be down going going back to your analogy.
54:39 I think that this is to me, this is again, going back to the cult of kindness, which is
54:42 essentially just cowardice in my opinion.
54:45 But when you, when you going back to your analogy, here's what I find funny.
54:51 They don't want, they would, they don't want you to tell the kid to get out of the street.
54:58 The kid is happy.
54:59 He wants to do what he wants, let them do what they want.
55:01 And then what do they do?
55:03 Kid gets hit by a car.
55:04 They get mad at the person driving the car.
55:07 Right.
55:08 It's like, it's funny to me.
55:10 It's funny to me this, this whole kindness movement, how, how much they seem to be unkind
55:19 toward people who are trying to walk with Jesus.
55:21 Oh, sure.
55:22 Yeah.
55:23 The, the affirmation and the tolerance only works one direction, correct.
55:27 Because when they're like, I just want you to be tolerant.
55:29 I was like, okay, let's be tolerant.
55:31 Will you be tolerant of my ways of thinking?
55:33 Well, no, yours are bigoted and wrong.
55:35 I was like, all right.
55:36 Well, suck a duck.
55:37 I don't give a crap.
55:38 Like, you know, who, who give, you know, is that better?
55:40 Like a duck.
55:41 Is that, is that okay?
55:42 Is that acceptable?
55:43 I'm just going to look to you every time I say something that really pushes the line because
55:45 I want to say suck a bag of, you know, what's, and so, you know, it's, it's a little bit
55:48 better.
55:49 The FCC over here.
55:50 That's right.
55:51 You know, it depends on where the emphasis is.
55:52 Okay.
55:53 Um, so there's more sections to the end of Matthew 15 here.
55:56 So this is what we're going to do because I don't want us to, um, to short shrift any
55:59 part of scripture, even though we don't have time to fully discuss it.
56:02 So I do want us to, to read these last portions of scripture.
56:05 I'll, I'll make a couple of comments and then we'll get out of here.
56:07 So, um, we'll make sure that Caleb reads at the biggest section from his tiny Bible,
56:12 but Jake.
56:13 Oh, actually, Zach, if you can read, uh, Matthew 15 21 through 28, we don't need to talk about
56:20 why verse 22 isn't there, but, um, let's go ahead and go into that real quick.
56:24 So if you can just read 21 through 28, please.
56:27 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sedon.
56:31 I think I said that right side instead of side and whatever and behold, a Canaanite woman
56:36 from that region came out and was crying, have mercy on me.
56:39 Oh Lord, son of David, my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon, but he did not answer
56:44 her a word and his disciples came and begged him saying, send her away for she is crying
56:50 out after us.
56:52 He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but she came and
56:57 knelt before him saying, Lord, help me.
57:00 And he answered, it is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.
57:06 She said, yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's
57:10 table.
57:11 Then Jesus answered her, Oh woman, great is your faith.
57:15 Be it done for you as you desire and her daughter was healed instant.
57:21 The one thing I want to mention about this story, and it's unfortunate we've run out
57:24 of time.
57:25 The part where he seems to call this woman a dog, people are like, this seems so harsh
57:30 and so mean like Jesus was Mr. mean pants.
57:33 So in this era, Jews thought Gentiles were dogs.
57:38 They were described as dogs and thought of in that way.
57:42 But the word that was used here, I think the word I wrote down here, it's like canaryon
57:47 or something like that, it's more like little dog or house pet.
57:51 And so he's almost talking to her like almost like, okay, puppy, like that type of thing.
57:56 And so a lot of people think he's being people have claimed that Jesus was racist.
58:00 I've literally heard I think Shane Claiborne that dope, like that's something that I think
58:03 he has said that Jesus, you know, express racist thoughts and they use this scripture.
58:08 It is deeply inaccurate.
58:10 So don't fall for that.
58:11 So that's just one thing I wanted to point out from this section, Winkler, if you can
58:14 hit 29 through 31, please.
58:20 Jesus went on from there and walked beside the sea of Galilee and he went up to on the
58:24 mountain and sat down there and great crowds came to him, bringing with them the lame,
58:29 the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others.
58:32 They put him at his feet and he healed them so that the crowd wondered when they saw the
58:37 mute speaking, the crippled healthy and the lame walking and the blind seeing, and they
58:42 glorified the God of Israel.
58:45 And then Caleb, if you would not mind reading versus 32 through the rest of the chapter,
58:50 which is verse 39, and Jesus called his disciples to him and said, I feel compassion for the
58:56 people because they have remained with me now three days and have nothing to eat and I do
59:00 not want to send them away hungry for they might faint on the way.
59:04 The disciples said to him, where would we get so many loaves in this desolate place to
59:08 satisfy such a large crowd?
59:10 And Jesus said to them, how many loaves do you have?
59:12 And they said, seven, a few small fish.
59:16 He directed the people to sit down on the ground and he took the seven loaves in the
59:19 fish and giving thanks, he broke them and started giving them to the disciples.
59:23 And the disciples gave them to the people and they all ate and were satisfied and they picked
59:27 up what was left over of the broken pieces.
59:31 Seven large baskets were full and those who ate were 4,000 men besides women and children
59:36 and sending away the crowds.
59:37 Jesus got into the boat and came to the region of Magadan.
59:41 And so just with this last section here, this is probably again 15 to 20,000 people total.
59:46 No one talks about the feeding of the 4,000, everyone likes to talk about the feeding of
59:50 the 5,000, that's typically what's depicted.
59:53 But the interesting thing about the feeding of the 5,000 is those were Jews.
59:57 And this is the feeding of the 4,000 and these were Gentiles.
1:00:01 Significance to 5,000 versus 4,000.
1:00:03 I don't really know.
1:00:04 I think everybody is just speculating.
1:00:06 The one speculation I do like about why there were seven loaves and a few small fish and
1:00:12 there were seven left over, seven is the number of perfection.
1:00:15 So we do see that number quite a bit.
1:00:17 So if, you know, the mark of the beast is 666, the number of heaven to 777, that type of
1:00:21 thing.
1:00:22 But again, I don't want to give short trip to all that stuff there at the end.
1:00:25 So that's something for you guys.
1:00:26 If you want to go ahead and dig in on your own, do that, but we're trying to keep things
1:00:30 to a tight hour here.
1:00:31 So there's more that could be said about Matthew 15, but we're going to leave it there.
1:00:34 But guys, make sure you come back here next week, prepare to hear us discuss Matthew 16.
1:00:39 And before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost and a thought to
1:00:42 life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual
1:00:46 mental and physical resilience.
1:00:48 Don't forget about the forging table starter set through crossway.
1:00:50 All that is here on the show notes and the other link is to our donation page.
1:00:53 Guys, if you're wondering how we can pull off things like the forging table, it's because
1:00:56 we have monthly donors that are hopping on supporting us on a monthly basis, 10, $15,
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1:01:16 If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
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1:01:46 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:01:48 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:01:54 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:02:01 [music]
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The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
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If getting these cute little journals is good, if you want like a purse Bible, like Caleb has, I don't care, whatever you are able to get digital, digital written, you know, if it's on tablets, I don't care. Get the scripture as much as possible.
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