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1:18
This is Undaunted Life. A man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it. Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:30
forges spiritual mental and physical resilience at the forging table.
1:33
You'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's
1:36
word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:39
That's Eric. That's Ryan. That's Matt. You like how I did it completely out of order?
1:44
OG crew. I had to keep you all guessing for a little bit. We're going to be digging into some
1:49
subject matters that are hard to deal with, the death of John the Baptist and everything else like
1:54
that. There's one thing that I did want to point out and talk about here from the very beginning.
1:58
It relates to something that I talk about in January of every year when I do my "How to Avoid
2:03
Being a Crappy Man" series. There are several that I've said every year and will continue to
2:08
say every year. One of them is don't let sports ruin your night. The reason why I say
2:14
that is because I for the majority of my life until here in the last few years was the worst at that.
2:20
Whether it was cheering on my high school team or whether it was the St. Louis Cardinals or whether
2:27
it was my favorite fighter or something like that, if things did not go my way, I would ruin my night
2:32
in the nights of everyone around me by just pouting and being a little baby about a sporting
2:37
event outcome that had nothing to do with me. What's funny is right before this, Eric,
2:43
you're showing me on your phone, there was a football game that happened, which at this point
2:47
of y'all listening to this is a game that happened well, well long ago, but her resting heart rate
2:52
was like in the 140. Your wife's resting heart rate was in the 140s watching a game and I thought
2:59
about the number of times and I've done that where I'm like literally just super spiking my heart rate
3:05
because of like a game. I keep trying to think like why that is and like psychologists and sociologists
3:12
have kind of dug into that like, hey, why do people kind of do this? But I don't know, it's just it's
3:18
one of those things for me that as I read through scripture, I feel like I'm on this road of sanctification
3:23
and things that I used to really, really care about. I don't care about as much and I'm starting
3:27
to care about other things more. But I feel like of all the things out there aside from like a
3:32
chemical addiction, sports, especially in America is that one thing that can just grab a guy and he
3:39
just can't escape from it. And it's and it just goes well beyond, you know, an interest or a hobby
3:46
into a vice. My wife would unapologetically say, yes, I love that team a lot. She's where a house
3:56
divided on this and man, I've kind of gotten to the same point, Kyle, where I enjoy, I enjoy sports
4:06
and enjoy my team. But I'm not gonna let it ruin my life, not ruin my day. More more, I'm still
4:14
getting some sanctification in that area. She'll get there at some point. I just cut that part out,
4:19
please. For Eric, I got you man stays Kyle still ruins nights because I'll tell my
4:24
Hey, Kyle's coming over to our heart. We just shoots up to 160. Hey,
4:27
so I'm getting the sense that Mrs. Horn is not a fan of Mrs. Horn. I just like to give you a hard
4:35
time. My wife has been kicked out of her own house during certain games. You kicked your wife
4:41
out of your house. No, not my yeah, he didn't say my house. Okay. Maybe her father's house. But
4:48
I mean, she she loves her football. I will tell you that. To your point, Kyle,
4:53
I think I mean, it is it is very innate. And it is really revealing about how the creator has
4:59
designed us because sports in its truest sense depicts military prowess in the best way without
5:09
people dying. It is a it is a in a sense of fight. Don't don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not
5:13
comparing sports athletes to soldiers, completely different is gladiator games gladiator. But like
5:22
we want to be like there's something in that that just it it galvanizes us to and then somebody that
5:29
we're rooting for it. Like we want to be in the trenches with them. Like we want to be a part of
5:34
that, but it can go too far. I'm sure it becomes identity. When I watch sports, it makes me think
5:39
of the Roman Empire, which I think of a lot, a lot, a lot, a trend months ago. But that is,
5:46
but that is that is super important to think about though, because it's like your identity
5:51
is found in where you put a lot of your attention. And the thing is that there's been plenty of
5:56
studies of, you know, after your team wins the game, your testosterone levels go up. But after your
6:01
team loses your testosterone levels go down. So my wife can grow facial hair. Dude, your wife's
6:06
gonna have a beard by the end of this day. Hey, Eric, you're home. It's like baby, fam. Yeah.
6:13
You're gonna come home and you're gonna be like, where did that Adam's apple come from. Whoa. Hey,
6:19
that's how we were in our cage stage, Calvinism stage, you know, we were just like heart rate was
6:23
up already all the time because that's all we thought about. Allology. You say you accept anything.
6:28
What? Yeah. So you're saying your past side now or I would I would be surprised if I'm still in
6:35
my cage stage, but yeah. So what stage have you settled into? Is there a name for the stage?
6:43
I don't even know if there's a name for the stage. I mean, I would say that I've settled into the
6:47
stage that I'm thankful that God allows me to open my eyes every day. Yeah, I'm I'm in the stage
6:52
where I just want to share it. Well, I want to I want to see people come to Christ and I just want
6:57
to love on them when they do. There you go. Well, then why were you talking about naming it and
7:00
claiming it like in our break? What was that about? Well, you know, there was that time in my past
7:06
where I grew up with the Joel Steens and Kenneth Copeland and that that happened. You got to name
7:12
it and claim it. So, you know, I'm like, yeah, Jesus, Jesus, no, God want him to have that private
7:18
gym. Yeah, that's wrong. My gosh. All right, I'm about to make myself mad. I'm the one that said
7:22
the joke. All right, let's dig into Matthew 14. A lot of good stuff here. So I say that and we're
7:28
about to read that first section. This is so awesome. Yeah. So, well, Ryan's the charity
7:33
ruin the ending. You get to read this section. So episode for you guys listening. That's all I'm
7:38
going to say. All right, let's go. Kyle hates his listeners. I'm so sorry, guys. Like, I'm doing
7:44
this to you. All right. This is a long one, fellas 14 versus one through 12. It's been a few weeks
7:51
since you since you were fired and then rehired in the same episode. I think you can do it. Let's go.
7:56
At the time, Herod, the tetrack. Oh, right. You are fired immediately, Eric, you're
8:04
a tetrack. No. Is that the tetrack? How do you say it? It's tetrarch. Just here. I believe
8:15
that Ryan was this before he comes. No, no, no, no. I listened to it. But I'm not listening to
8:21
everyone. All right, Ryan, I'm so sorry. You're just like a finish. No, no chance. All right, Eric,
8:25
you're up. You have been you threw one bad pitch and it was cranked over the fence. You were out
8:30
of the game. This is the playoffs. All right, Eric, you're in. Let's go. All right. At that time,
8:36
Herod, the tetrarch heard. I said that the second time again, let's have some reverence for the
8:43
word of God. Let's go. All right. All right. Everybody. Everybody. Here we go. I heard about
8:47
the fame of Jesus. And he said to his servants, this is John the Baptist. He has been raised from
8:53
the dead. That is why these miraculous powers are at work in him. For Herod, it sees John and
8:59
bound him and put him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother, Philip's wife, because John
9:04
had been saying to him, it is not lawful for you to have her. And though he wanted to put
9:11
him to death, he feared the people because they held him to be a prophet. But when Herod's birthday
9:16
came, the daughter of Herodias danced before the company and pleased Herod so that he promised
9:22
with an oath to give her whatever she might ask. Prompted by her mother, she said, give me the
9:27
head of John the Baptist here on a platter. And the king was sorry because of his oaths
9:33
and his guests. He commanded it to be given. He sent and had John beheaded in the prison.
9:40
And his head was brought on a platter and given to the girl. And she brought it to her mother.
9:45
And his disciples came and took the body and buried it. And they went and told Jesus.
9:50
So this might be interesting, but and maybe this is another sidebar conversation. I'll try to keep
9:56
it on the rails here. There have been very, very few times in my life where I have watched a movie
10:01
and hated it and then watched it again to make sure I didn't miss something. Okay. Most of the
10:08
times if I see a movie and it sucks, I'm never going near that movie again. Well, that happened
10:12
when no country for old men came out. I went to the theater and I was so excited to see this movie.
10:18
Preview looked amazing. I go there and I watch it and I left going,
10:23
what? What in the world? And if you haven't watched that movie yet, no spoilers. It's like
10:28
20 year old movie. So I hear about here, no spoilers. And I remember getting to the end of being so
10:34
dissatisfied. And so if you have not seen the movie and you plan to, you need to pause this
10:38
and skip one minute. Okay, because I'm making my point by saying something here. So you have five
10:42
seconds for you haven't seen it. No, I don't have an interest. That's why we have Harvey
10:48
Urban. Damn. Okay, see him more. I feel like you should see this movie. And for the first time in
10:54
forging table history, I may put you in timeout, like where you like need to go sit in, you know,
10:58
the other part of the studio and put your fingers in your ears because I don't want to ruin this
11:02
for you. But it's going to make my point here. Go make your point. Okay, I know it's it's bad.
11:07
That's rough. The main character. No, it's all good. It's all good. The main character of no
11:12
country for old men is killed off screen. You're following this guy the entire time and you're
11:17
kind of living with him. You're kind of wrestling with him. You want him to beat the bad guy and
11:22
all that he's killed off screen. So one another minor character finds him dead. And then they just
11:28
move move on with the movie. And it was so dissatisfying. And it wasn't until I watched
11:34
no country for old men again. Now it's one of my top 10 top 15 favorite movies. I absolutely
11:39
love that movie. I watch it maybe once a year now. Okay. But the point I'm trying to make here is
11:44
John the Baptist is that dude, right? Aside from Jesus, he is the main character of the
11:50
gospels. Seemingly, right? At least up to this point. And could there be a more unceremonious way
11:55
for him to die? Because you're you're thinking this is all building where Jesus is going to come
12:01
back. He's going to rebuke her to his face. And they're going to get, you know, Herod's going to
12:05
realize his bad ways because this is the same. Herod Antipas, you know, from the trial of Jesus,
12:09
you're where Pontius Pilate, you know, sends him to Herod. It's the same guy. It doesn't happen at
12:14
all. Like, and he just he just dies because some manipulative woman, you know, through her daughter
12:20
who danced sensually and sexually before a pedophilic, Herod decided this is what they wanted to do.
12:27
Right? That was I was just struck by man, there could have been a more glorious death for him,
12:31
not that it wasn't God ordaining it or whatever. But I was just, you know,
12:35
yeah, it was just very trivial. Yeah. Exactly. Totally agree with you. Yeah. That was a really
12:40
long explanation for me just to be like, yeah, that was pretty true. That was so you got his head
12:45
cut off. And what do you mean here? How it happened? Just came back on a platter. But I think it's
12:51
got a weird to look at Herod Antipas. I want to say it right. So I'm getting in trouble. Antipas,
12:57
Antipas, Antipas, and you say Herodis. Herodias. Herodias was his niece. Right. So she was in a
13:08
relationship with Philip, his brother, also her uncle. And then he stole his niece from his brother.
13:15
Like, isn't Levitical law to not marry within your family? Leviticus 1816. That is exactly why
13:23
John was screaming. And it's John screaming. It's not the guys who are holding up the law,
13:29
making the yoke harder. They're turning a blind eye to this sin. Why? Because of Herod.
13:35
And I think it's, I think it just shows like how we need to call out the unrighteous. You know,
13:40
if like, if we have believers among us that are in sin, we need to rebuke them through love. And
13:46
I think that's what John was doing. But we have a lot of people sitting silent now with what's
13:52
going on with her daughter, the girl who danced for Herod, married one of Herod's sons,
14:01
like just furthering the incestual web there. Those kids came out with like eggs on the side of
14:08
their head. But I think, uh, don't we get, so this is cologne, that was the name of the, the daughter.
14:14
Don't we get that from Josephus? That's right. So we don't, we don't get that specifically from
14:19
the Bible. That's not a biblical. Yeah. Josephus notates that in his histories, but we're assuming
14:24
she's between 12 and 14 years old when she's doing this dance. And there's basically no way
14:29
that this wasn't a sensual dance. This was apparently a pretty specific thing for that time period.
14:35
That's something like that would happen. But obviously it's a very uncomfortable thing to read
14:40
because here's this adult male being sexually aroused by the dancing of a young child so much
14:44
so that he's willing to grant her anything that she requests. Yeah. And the oath he made was a
14:49
non-violet. He couldn't violate this oath. I'm not going to try to pass that. Violable.
14:54
Violable because he had guests there. Well, I actually watched it. Yeah. Yeah.
14:58
But he like, he was, he, he, he made this oath that he could not violate to the point that
15:05
maybe against what he wanted to do, and he didn't have to do that. Like he could have said, I will,
15:11
you know, I bring you something special or something like that, but he like literally gave her a
15:15
blank check. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think another thing that's really important here is because
15:19
we live in this era where there's all kinds of plotted given to people that speak truth to power.
15:25
This is actual speaking truth to power, what John was doing. And so this goes back to your point,
15:30
Ryan, which is basically, we need more people that are willing to risk themselves and risk,
15:36
you know, I'm not saying, hey, go out there and, you know, try to get killed or anything like that.
15:40
But in this exact moment, he was standing up and defending the Levitical law and, you know,
15:45
basically prophesying into power. And so when you have these people that are like, I'm going to
15:50
speak true to the power and the power is that, you know, political party they don't like or some
15:55
company that isn't quite woke enough for them. It's like, this is a real example of somebody that
16:00
actually had something to lose and ended up losing it, which was his life. Yeah.
16:02
Well, I think this should also be a call to our hearts to and to the hearts of pastors,
16:07
even pastors that we agree with, there's a, there's a level of humility that should come with being
16:13
a pastor. And you are not above sinning. You're just an ordinary man, just like us. So if,
16:19
if you're called out or rebuked for a sin, you should humbly take that. And if it's wrong,
16:26
okay, but like the guys that get defensive about stuff and just their first line is just to defend,
16:35
defend, defend. I think it's sometimes not the right way to do things. Am I crazy in that or?
16:41
No, I think you're right. I mean, you got to be able to take rebuke. You got to be able to take
16:45
criticism. And if the criticism is unwarranted, then have that discussion with your brother. But
16:50
I think people are afraid nowadays to give out any type of rebuke. I mean,
16:54
our molar just a couple of months ago, you know, he called out Andy Stanley for the unconditional
17:00
event. He was one of the only ones. And I'm like, I don't like, and it kind of disgust me because
17:07
I've been in multiple churches. I mean, the last church I went to basically like copied and pasted
17:12
Andy Stanley on everything. And it's like you have all these people that have used Andy Stanley and
17:17
keep using Andy Stanley quotes, but you will not hear them go and rebuke him for what he's done.
17:22
That's unbiblical, you know, like, like, um, our molars done. And like, that's where my wife and
17:30
I had this conversation. I was just like, she's like, well, who should rebuke him? Our pastor
17:34
doesn't quote Andy Stanley. If he does quote Andy Stanley, it's a rebuke in the end to Andy Stanley,
17:40
especially during his unhinged days. But these pastors that are out there still using Andy Stanley
17:46
quotes and know that it's wrong. They need to have the humility to get up on that stage and rebuke
17:52
Andy Stanley, because they have people in their congregations that are still listening to what
17:58
that man says. And they need to, they need to be able to teach discernment to their people or in
18:04
modeling discernment because that's it. So an argument can be made because I completely agree
18:09
with what you point, I think it was your point. I think it was a great point. The thing you could
18:13
argue is that our molar is not a pastor right now. So he's not a senior pastor. He's not leading a
18:17
church. He's not discipling a flock. He's, you know, basically a college president and a, you know,
18:22
speaker and but he's a giant voice and evangelicalism, you know, writ large, right? Well, so Stanley,
18:30
Stanley is a giant voice, which is great that our molars that giant voice to go after Stanley.
18:34
Well, I guess the point I'm making is I don't understand why more pastors aren't willing to go
18:40
on record as saying that because some people might say, well, you know, they don't know Andy Stanley,
18:46
you know, personally, and you know, they should go and rebuke him. And because when you look at
18:50
rebukes in the Bible, you have, you know, Nathan rebuking King David, but they were like, basically
18:56
best friends, you have Peter rebuking or Paul rebuking Peter, we see that in Galatians two,
19:03
but they were at the very least coworkers, right, co laborers for the same thing, if not, you know,
19:07
close friends or something like that. So it's like, well, it's not really my place to do that. And
19:11
that's not really the point. And you know, the pulpit is not for rebuke. The pulpit is for, you
19:16
know, the continuing teaching of the scriptures or something like that. So I can understand why
19:20
maybe a pastor wouldn't want to do it from the pulpit on Sunday morning. The problem is, is they
19:24
are going to have to give an account for how they've shepherded their flock. And if you are a church
19:28
that uses Andy Stanley quotes or has used him in the past, has had him speak at your church or
19:33
something like that, if you don't talk to your church about that, again, you have to remember,
19:38
we're in this like, I'm in this every day. But a lot of people are running their business,
19:42
they're running their families. They don't have time to discern all these 17 different viewpoints
19:47
of the singular thing. But they have your undivided attention, hopefully, on Sunday morning while
19:52
they're sitting in your pulpit. Well, you know me, I'm not the person that wants to be like, hey,
19:55
let's talk about politics from the pulpit. Let's, you know, I'm not expecting pastors to go and
20:00
rebuke Andy Stanley from the pulpit. But it's really easy to type up a quick email and send it
20:05
out to your congregation. Because I get it all the time, you know, from other churches, just saying,
20:09
hey, we're walking away from Andy Stanley and what Andy Stanley is saying and what he's doing.
20:13
We don't find it biblical. We find it antithetical of what the Bible teaches. And this is why,
20:18
like you can rebuke that way. You don't have to do it Sunday morning from a pulpit. You can send out
20:23
an email and do that. You are called to shepherd the flock. If there's a wolf among your flock,
20:29
you don't go and rebuke him personally and put your arm around him. Beat him with your club,
20:34
you kill him. Well, I mean, if you're a and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not calling for violence here.
20:39
Of course. But if we're shepherding flocks as a, as a pastor, if I'm a pastor and I'm
20:43
shepherding a flock, and this is, this is my problem with it because I've seen this personally,
20:49
like the unwillingness to call something what it is and to not say, hey, we're not going to use
20:59
that anymore. Like that is not being a good shepherd. It's like those cowards who say,
21:06
I want to be for what I'm for, not what I'm against. Did you come up with that? That's really good.
21:10
I've heard that before. I've heard that. Yeah. But you know, I mean, yeah. No, Kyle said it multiple
21:14
times. Like, yeah. So it's just, but, but this is the perfect, I mean, this is exactly what you've
21:19
been saying. And this is a perfect thing to look at is that we're, we're cowardly in some areas.
21:25
And we're, and we're trying to use this whole winsome 11th commandment to, to just, you know,
21:32
the wind, let it go, to let it go. Like it's a brother in Christ. We just let it go. I'm sorry.
21:36
Right. No, that's fine. It's fine. To stand up for truth is an honorable thing. And I have no idea
21:43
what John's last thoughts were or words were if you had any. But I just imagine, you know,
21:50
Paul said he said to live as Christ and to die is gain in it. I imagine that John had that same
21:58
mentality. And if he didn't, he had something similar. I can't imagine it being any different,
22:04
but we as men have to get into a point in our life where we're willing to say to ourselves that
22:12
our hope in Christ and our promise of a future in heaven with him is greater than any
22:19
duration of our life. If indeed, that was what is at stake for us saying or doing something
22:25
that is promoting truth. You know what I mean? Yeah. And there's no way John didn't know
22:30
the repercussions of what he was doing. And he did it anyway. And I think one thing to look at too is
22:36
John. I'm pretty sure John wasn't good friends with Herod. It wasn't like they hung out. We're
22:41
best friends. Like it's publicly rebuked him. And you know, so like there's nothing wrong with
22:46
public review. When I think as well, there's a line where if someone's a public figure,
22:54
like it's not that the all the rules change, but it's like, okay, if someone at this table
23:00
was to do something rebucable, you know, where I wouldn't talk about it, my show,
23:05
right? I would call you. I would come over to your house. And if I would full on potentially
23:11
go for rebuke and say, Hey, this is a major problem. You are absolutely in the wrong blah, blah, blah.
23:16
And again, I'm not going to bring it back to the microphone. But to say that, Oh, well, you can't
23:21
rebuke people unless you know them. So I'm never able to complain about something the president
23:25
does regardless of the party. I can't complain about what a terrorist organization decides to do.
23:31
Like the leader of, you know, a particular terrorist organization. I can't I can't say anything about
23:36
that because I don't know them. You're telling me I have to find a way because this was the very
23:40
first time I went after Stanley on my show, right? Or which was earlier this year, I had people that
23:45
were coming out of the woodwork. I guess it would have been, yeah, it was, you know, early 2023.
23:49
I had people coming out of the woodwork being like, wait a minute, like, you know, enough people
23:52
in this world, your one degree of separation from Andy Stanley, you should have reached out to him
23:57
personally and blah, blah, and all those different things. And it's like, where do you get this idea
24:02
that I need to track someone down? Because if somebody a stranger rebukes me in my inbox, how
24:07
much weight do you think I put on that? I don't think you should talk about this on your show. I
24:11
don't think you should do this, or I think this should be on your book list or whatever. It's like,
24:14
dude, you're a stranger. Like, sure, I'll take that into account. But it's like, I don't have a
24:18
relationship with you for you to speak to me in this way. There's not going to be any change there.
24:23
But again, my responsibility is to my audience of people that are well-meaning guys, but don't
24:28
have the time to discern Andy Stanley, or they're like me. Where years ago, listening to these
24:33
sermons, I don't notice the things that I notice now, because I'm now on the word more. And now
24:38
it's like, wait a minute. Like, I can't believe I heard him say that seven years ago, and I just
24:42
went through and I was like, Oh, this is no big deal. But I mean, I think we're all kind of coming
24:47
to the same place that we think and this really doesn't have a whole lot to do with John being
24:51
beheaded. But it's where he did actually take a risk to speak truth to power. And he didn't try
24:56
to back channel it. Like he didn't try to like, Oh, let's try to make this the softest,
25:00
quietest, rebuke possible. Let me let me kind of do it from the quiet or middle space. It's like,
25:05
there is no middle space here. You're either violating the Levitical law or you're not.
25:09
And his job was to speak truth to actual power in that moment. And Matt, to the point you were
25:15
making earlier, I don't know if he thought maybe he had a different hedge of protection,
25:20
because he was John the Baptist, or you know, he was tied with Jesus or those types of things. But
25:26
regardless of what he thought, because we can't know that he did it, like he made the choice and
25:30
he put his flag in the ground. We need to keep this moving because there's some other great stuff
25:35
here in Matthew 14. So Matt, if you can read Jesus feeding the 5000 that is verses 13 through 21.
25:41
Now, when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a desolate place by himself.
25:47
But when the crowds heard it, they followed him on foot from the towns. When he went ashore,
25:52
he saw a great crowd and he had compassion on them and healed their sick. Now, when it was evening,
25:57
the disciples came to him and said, "This is a desolate place and the day is now over. Send the
26:02
crowds away to go into the villages and buy food for themselves." But Jesus said, "They need not go
26:09
away. You give them something to eat." They said to him, "We have only five loaves here and two fish."
26:15
And he said, "Bring them here to me." And he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass
26:21
and taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven and said a blessing.
26:25
Then he broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples. And the disciples gave them to the
26:30
crowds and they all ate and were satisfied. And they took up 12 baskets full of the broken pieces
26:36
left over. And those who ate were about 5000 men besides women and children.
26:42
So I'm going to point out a couple of things that I feel like are super obvious at this point,
26:46
but maybe if you haven't heard them, it's worth pointing out. I think this is the only story that's
26:50
recorded, and other aside from the crucifixion and resurrection, this is the only thing that's
26:55
recorded in all four of the gospels. I believe I heard that somewhere. And also, most people think
27:00
of 5,000. They're like, "Oh, there are 5,000 men and children, but we see basically right here
27:05
from Scripture." It could have been, I've seen estimates between 15 and 25,000 people were out
27:10
there. So this is, you know, go to an NBA arena that's mostly full. Like, it's that many people
27:15
that were here on this hill. But I will say, Ryan and I were kind of talking about this before
27:19
recording, I'm kind of at a loss with what to say about the story because it just kind of is what it
27:23
is. Because it's kind of, where do you put yourself in the story, which again is not the point of
27:29
Scripture. But it's like, imagine being one of the hungry people. Did you know the miracle was
27:34
happening? Because the disciples knew that the miracle was happening before them because they
27:38
knew the plight of the project. Because they were given the project of, "Hey, we need to feed these
27:42
people." And they knew how much money they had, and they knew how much food was available. And so they
27:47
were witnessing firsthand, which I think immediately goes into what the next story we're going to see
27:52
from Scripture is. But this is just a furtherance of, "Hey guys, I'm different. You've been following
27:58
me for all this time, but look what I can do when I just get a modicum of faith." But what other
28:03
things do you have in terms of feedback of the story? I like how he was like, "They need not go away.
28:08
Give them something to eat." He just threw it on them, trying to test their faith. And he's like,
28:14
"Hey, we only got five loaves and two fishes." And he said, "Bring them to me." And did the
28:21
impossible. So I just think it was great how he just kind of pushed them towards their faith on that.
28:26
There's also another's an account. It's not just, "Okay, great. You brought this to me. I'm going to
28:31
feed these people." Like, there's a record now. We've had this conversation. Now watch me be God.
28:36
Yep. And then now you have 15,000, 25,000 people that were like, "Hey, this guy just fed us all."
28:41
Yeah. And they weren't skimmed by it. It says they were all, they all ate and were
28:45
satisfied. It was like having a feast. Yeah. Talk about tasting and seeing that the Lord is good.
28:52
Like that. I mean, what do you, let's actually dig into that a little bit more.
28:58
Like, do you think the people that were on the hill were expecting to be fed was just a surprise
29:05
that they got a meal that they weren't expecting? I guess I'm just trying to really put myself
29:10
to try to understand because this is obviously an incredible miracle. But it's like, what exactly
29:14
would these people have felt? Because if you were hungry and you needed food and the deck was
29:20
stacked against you and you experienced the miracle, it's going to mean more than if you're like,
29:24
"Oh, yeah. It's just another meal." You know what I mean? Thoughts? Well, they say it's a desolate
29:31
place. Right. And so there's probably not a lot of towns nearby. So it was already getting late.
29:37
And so if they were going to walk, it was going to be a couple of hours. So you don't know,
29:41
it's still open. And I think that's why Christ was like, no, you feed them. I think he kept them
29:45
there for a reason to show his majesty and his power. So do I think they were, they were like,
29:51
hey, you need to feed us? I think it was a nice surprise. You know, like, hey, we're going to get
29:55
fed. But they also probably still thought in their minds, like, man, we're going to have to walk
29:59
all the way back. Yeah, I think you'd be hungry. Yeah. There's nothing one way or the other that
30:04
says they were expecting it or they weren't. But obviously they didn't care to a certain
30:08
extent that they were willing to travel that far to go hear him speak. So that obviously wasn't
30:13
too big of a concern for them. Nope. Has it chosen shown this yet on TV? Yeah, you get used to
30:20
different. We need to watch it and see what they say. They're good. They're good with the background
30:25
of like what could have happened. I get the sense you're not being serious. No, I am being serious.
30:30
I am being serious. I'm just wondering if you watched it. Yeah. Yeah. Like what was the background
30:35
on that one? What specifically background? Were they grumbling or were they were they expected?
30:43
Yeah. So the way that they depicted it was Jesus was speaking. They were kind of spreading out to
30:51
take the message. I think I'm combining that whenever you did the Sermon on the Mount. But
30:55
anyway, they did have they showed the kid coming up. I don't get the sense that the people were
30:59
grumbling. I can't remember it specifically. So I don't know that they were necessarily
31:04
grumbling. I think it was Jesus wanting to care for these people like, hey, they came all this way.
31:08
Yeah, they have compassion. It's almost like the grandma thing said, well,
31:10
you came all this way to see me, at least let me make you a sandwich. So it was kind of like
31:13
felt like that a little bit. Everyone's had a grandma like that. At least I hope so.
31:17
Then they pinched your cheeks. Yeah, exactly. But it almost feels like
31:20
I would assume that if you were one of the five thousand men also with your families that maybe
31:28
you didn't get the full understanding of what had just happened. Maybe you're just like, man,
31:33
these guys, they had all this food. This is incredible kind of a thing. That's kind of
31:38
what I think about that. I wouldn't see them grumbling in the fact that they knew what they
31:42
were doing. And then who knows about the message that was being taught there? I mean,
31:46
eyes were open, hearts were full. So I would assume that it was a very nice surprise.
31:52
Yeah, I don't know. I'm just sitting here thinking about this. I was like, they were all
31:56
they ate and we're all satisfied. So like they're kind of a point where as they are passing it,
32:01
they're like, wow, I mean, there's only five of these things. I mean, just take a little bit. I'll
32:04
just take a little bit or were they like, just take as much as you want. It's fine. There are 12
32:09
baskets left over, 12 disciples, 12 tribes. Like there's there's kind of all those stuff that kind
32:15
of works together. Go ahead, Matt. Oh, I thought you did that big, deep breath. That was kind of
32:20
so quickly, smoothly, say something really smartly. That was his mustache.
32:24
His mustache brushed against the microphone. Sorry. The wife and I are going to start the chosen
32:28
first season sometime. Okay. Now that is a different that is a divergence from I think what you've
32:34
talked about on the show before that you had no interest in. I have no interest. I had no interest
32:38
in it. Okay. So where'd the interest come from? She said, we're going through this Matthew study
32:42
right now. Yeah. And she's going through Matthew, Matthew actually the Gospels and her Bible study.
32:47
And so we're like, Hey, I mean, if I could watch what I watch on TV, I can probably watch the chosen
32:53
and still make, you know, a good discern, have good discernment. So and for me, it's not going to be
33:01
like my Bible. It's not going to be like my church service. And so that was my only thing with the
33:06
chosen is like, I think some people take it a little bit more than what it really is. It's a good
33:10
depiction of some biblical things that happened as we walk through the life of Christ. But no,
33:16
I think I think we're going to give it a we're going to give it a go. Okay, I will say for,
33:21
well, have y'all watched it? Just parts of it. I haven't finished it. I've never watched a single
33:25
minute of the chosen. You sound proud of that. Oh, my God. I think I just, I think you just punch
33:31
my Calvinist card for watching the chosen. I'm sorry. We're not going to have a Calvinist fight
33:36
here at this table. Like between Calvinists, right? Okay. Yeah. I will say this. I've watched
33:41
every episode my wife and I have up to this point. And this is what I will say. I think it is people
33:46
that are what's the best way to say this? People that are hesitant to watch it because it's not
33:52
biblical and it's not all those types of things. I don't really understand that critique, but I
33:56
would understand why you would not want to watch it for that purpose. It's like, okay, fine. If you
33:59
don't want to watch it, like you can choose to watch whatever you want to watch. Then I have
34:03
experienced those other people to where it's like, Hey, I don't need to read the Bible. I can just
34:06
watch the chosen. It's basically the Bible in in living color, right? And I certainly don't agree
34:11
with that either. This is what I have talked about before on the show and to y'all individually what
34:16
it's done for me. It has slowed down scripture for me. And so I go back to the story of the woman
34:24
of the problem of blood for 12 years. That is this big, right? That is a handful of sentences
34:30
in in the scriptural depictions of that story. It's a couple of different places in the gospels.
34:34
But that was like a thread through like three or four different episodes, I believe of season three
34:39
of that show. And it slowed down the story to where I could actually even feel a little bit like,
34:46
wait a minute, for 12 years, this woman was outside of culture, outside of society,
34:52
had no family, had no friends, had no money because she spent everything on doctors trying to trying
34:58
to fix her. And like every time I think about that story now, I'm overwhelmed with emotion
35:04
about the beauty of that story. And it was because a Hollywood-esque type of production slowed it
35:12
down for me. They didn't dramatize it. So there was nothing that they added to the story that I was
35:17
like, wait a minute, that's like super not a part of that. But it's like, okay, it could have looked a
35:22
little bit like that. And that is that has been a story that I never really reckoned with. And now
35:27
it's like a core thing from the gospel that I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I think that's a good
35:31
point to make. And I like we don't watch a ton of TV. Like I'm not, I've listened to both sides of
35:37
the chosen debate and I'm not going to jump into to either one. But I think your point is
35:42
very well made in the fact that emotion isn't bad and appealing to someone's emotion isn't a bad
35:51
thing. Because we should be able to read some of these stories in the Bible and get choked up
35:58
and be emotional because, yeah, 12 years of being outside of everything in an instant, Jesus,
36:06
Jesus just completely turns that whole thing around and adopts you into his family and calls
36:11
your daughter. Yeah, that's an emotional thing. So emotions aren't inherently bad. And they can't
36:17
be used to speak to somebody's heart. And so I just wanted to make that point because emotions
36:26
can be a good thing to appeal to sometimes. Yeah, and the miracles of Jesus slowed down like that.
36:35
I mean, that's a beautiful thing. I read the book by Randy Alcorn on heaven many years ago.
36:44
And I think he makes this point that when we're seeing Jesus live his life and performing these
36:52
miracles, we're seeing what ultimately is going to happen in the restoration of how things were
36:59
supposed to be in the beginning. And these little small glimpses, as miraculous as they are,
37:08
is going to be the norm someday when Jesus comes back and God brings down heaven.
37:15
Well, I just wanted to point out you actually talked to us about that privately. And that's
37:19
kind of what changed my mind when brought it up. Talk about which part about the woman and
37:25
you watching the chosen and that whole scene. Well, this is so the first time this kind of
37:33
cracked open for me was the first time I read a beautiful outlaw by John Eldridge. The entire
37:38
book is about the stories of Jesus from the gospel. And he's he's not adding personality to them.
37:45
It's like he's revealing the personality. And I guess you could summarize that book by saying,
37:50
if you just read the Bible, like a robot, you're not going to get any personality. Jesus is going
37:55
to sound like a robot. So the shortest depiction that we have of the story is in Matthew nine.
37:59
So we've already talked about on the show. But if I were just to read it out loud, the way I read
38:04
the Bible, it would be something like this, Matthew nine, starting in verse 20, just then a woman
38:09
who had been subject to bleeding for 12 years came up behind him and touched the edge of his
38:12
cloak. She said to herself, if I only touch his cloak, I will be healed. Jesus turned and saw her
38:17
take heart daughter, he said, your faith has healed you and the woman was healed at that moment.
38:21
That's a cute story. Man, that's that's sweet. That's real sweet. But again, when I saw the chosen,
38:29
like, and I don't know what it is about the story, because as we I don't have a daughter and the
38:33
only one at this table without a daughter, you believe you don't like one one. Yeah, I in general,
38:37
I just think women are the worst. I'm sorry. Don't don't hear what I'm not saying everybody.
38:40
It's only men listening to this, right? But whenever he calls her daughter, like,
38:47
and again, I only understood this because they slowed it down. It was because this woman would
38:53
have had no connection to her community. And this is different. We live in a day and age where a
38:58
book like bowling alone can be a bestseller, because we don't have communities, right? Well,
39:03
like maybe we have our church group or something like that. Maybe that's our community, but most
39:07
people don't have community. They don't have Lions Club. They don't have rotary. They don't have
39:10
the neighborhood association. They're just existing themselves. And if they don't have family that's
39:14
close by, they don't have community there either. At this date and time, your community in the Jewish
39:20
context was everything. This woman had none of that and not for a short period of time for 12
39:25
years. The fact that this woman even endured that long, that's not even talking about the ailment.
39:32
She was bleeding from her genitalia for 12 years and all the other things that come along with
39:39
that, all the discomforts that come along with that. And then you add on top of it, her ritual
39:44
uncleanness, she was never able to be clean. No one could be in her presence. Her family had to
39:48
have disowned her. She was completely pushed out of society. So when he calls her daughter,
39:54
that is just overwhelming because I can't experience that as she did, because obviously,
40:00
I wasn't there, but also I've never been a woman. I've never been anyone's daughter and then had
40:05
my place as daughter taken away for a long period of time. But then it was granted back to her because
40:11
in that exact moment, he calls her by her name daughter and he cleanses her so that she can have
40:17
community again. Like, again, I have no idea why this specific story was so in the background for me.
40:26
But again, it's just again, we are not worshiping at the altar of the chosen here, but that helped
40:31
me really see what that story was about. Good to understand that these things happen to real
40:37
people in real time, like Jesus dropped in into time into a moment in time and there were real
40:44
people experiencing these things, but also God loves adoption. And like, think about,
40:51
think about those adopted kids who are in similar situations when they get adopted into an
40:56
actual family and the paperwork's filed, there's that same moment that that woman experienced.
41:01
They have a name again. I have a name. I'm not outside. I'm being called into something. I'm a
41:08
part of something. And if we look at that in our own lives, that is literally what God does to us
41:15
when we are in Christ. You are now my son. You are now my daughter and you are part of my family.
41:22
I love that. And when you're talking about a name in emotion and how things grip you from the word,
41:30
I'm reminded of Revelation 2. It says to the one who is victorious, I will give
41:37
some of the hidden man. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it,
41:43
known only to the one who receives it. Each one of us someday will be
41:52
we are known by God, but we will know who we truly are in him when he gives us a new name.
41:59
And when we have that new name, it'll only be between he and I, between my maker and myself.
42:07
I've always thought about that. That is super cool. If I ever hear that name, I know who's talking.
42:15
Clothing and names are super, super important in the Bible.
42:18
Yeah, we just took that into left field. No, I think that was great. I think the good
42:24
thing about why you brought that up, Ryan, is because I know what your opinion has been on the
42:27
chosen for a while. And again, I could give a care less if somebody chooses to watch his television
42:31
show or not. It doesn't bother me one bit. And you know, I could differ from your opinion,
42:35
but I think that you will go into watching this show with healthy skepticism in the right places,
42:41
right? And then there's the stuff about, you know, the LGBTQ flag that was found on a camera that
42:45
was on set. And so I think that should help everyone like, Hey, if they start changing some of the
42:50
core foundational tenets of the gospel story, we can look at this all in totality and be like,
42:56
wait a minute, even though, you know, whether you like Dallas's explanation about why that was
42:59
there and why he's not going to patrol his people. Okay, fine. But you're going to go into that
43:04
show with eyes wide open. And you don't strike me as somebody that's going to have to watch every
43:09
single episode before you make a call. You know, way back in the day, I watched the show called
43:13
The Wire and like, this is where I watched this probably over 10 years ago, most people consider
43:18
that to be like a top five, maybe even top three show ever. They're like, it's breaking bad. It's
43:23
the sopranos, it's Game of Thrones, and it's the wire that's all kind of in that same area. And
43:28
I'm the type of guy that even if the movie sucks or the book sucks, I have to finish it. Like,
43:31
I can't just move on. And I watched every single episode of this show. And it was atrocious. I will
43:35
never get that that time back in my life. I didn't get it. I didn't understand it. But I can sense
43:40
that if you and your wife feel like perhaps your walk with God is being altered in a negative way
43:45
by watching this television show that you'll just move on, it'll be no big deal. And I see that. I
43:50
mean, I don't think it's going to be negative towards our walk anyways. There's stuff I watched
43:56
that could probably be more negative. But it's you got to get a look at 100%. Yeah, I'm like,
44:01
shoot, you're just talked about, Hey, I just watched The Wire. I was like, I almost quit watching
44:05
Parks and Rec after the first season, because I thought it was so bad. But I'm glad I watched
44:09
seven seasons of it because it just got better. You know, and so when it comes to the chosen,
44:13
I just, I want to give it a chance. I know I'm a discerning fellow. And I know my wife is discerning
44:18
as well. And so it's just like, Hey, you know what, it's not something we should be scared of.
44:23
Well, I'm not scared of it. Some of the opposition to the chosen, I know where we've
44:26
devolved here, but some of the opposition to things like the chosen can become an idol in itself,
44:31
just like Calvin's or our or our or our minionism. Yes, like it can become an idol that you're so
44:38
fixated on. Yeah, that when somebody says, I've accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and
44:43
Savior. And you say you accepted nothing like you're like, you're you're the Pharisee here.
44:48
Yes, like, and I hear you that and you don't get it 100%. That's why I know you agree with me.
44:53
I'm just saying that is I don't want to be that. You know what I'm saying? It's like,
44:56
the chosen isn't going to be my Bible. Right. The chosen isn't going to be my church. The chosen
45:01
is going to be a depiction that's going to give me some, some realization of probably what went on
45:06
in that time, provide a little bit more context than I would do research on. So that's why I look
45:11
at it. We'll go for making a different choice. Maybe we'll do like a live stream where we watch
45:15
you react to the to the chosen and we will react to you reacting to the chosen and we will judge
45:20
you harshly as we go through. So get used to different. Yeah, we'll work, we'll work on that
45:24
idea. Now, before we get back into Matthew 14 and get this the show back on the road,
45:29
I did want to point out that we have partnered up with Crossway again, guys, this is not an ad.
45:33
We have partnered up with Crossway because we heard from a lot of you that you want to start
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So the set includes their brand new ESV men's study Bible, a scripture journal of the book
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exposition. This explains the different types of writing inside the Bible. So it'll help you as
46:05
you're reading understanding what type of writing that you are reading at that moment. And then the
46:10
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entire set. That's Bravo Sierra Sierra Papa five zero to get 50% off at checkout. And so somehow
46:33
we spent so much time on John the Baptist losing his top not in Jesus feeding the 5000. We've kind
46:38
of missed out on maybe the most spectacular part of Matthew 14, but we're not going to miss out any
46:43
further. So let's talk about Jesus walking on water. Matt, if you can hit versus 22 through 33.
46:52
Immediately, he made the disciples get into the boat and go before him to the other side. While
46:57
he dismissed the crowds and after he had dismissed the crowds, he went up on the mountain by himself
47:02
to pray. When evening came, he was there alone. But the boat by this time was a long way from the land
47:10
beaten by the waves for the wind was against them. And in the fourth watch of the night,
47:14
he came to them walking on the sea. But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were
47:19
terrified and said, it is a ghost. And they cried out in fear. But immediately, Jesus spoke to them
47:25
saying, take heart, it is I do not be afraid. And Peter answered him, Lord, if it is you command
47:30
me to come to you on the water. He said, come. So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water
47:36
and came to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried out,
47:42
Lord, save me. Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him saying to him, Oh, you of
47:48
little faith, why did you doubt? And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. And those in the
47:55
boat worshiped him saying, truly, you are the Son of God. So a lot here, but the chosen at the end of
48:03
season three, they depict this scene. And it slows the scene down. It gives you a sense because I don't
48:11
know if there's just something wrong with the imaginative part of my brain. But I make certain
48:15
things that aren't that big way bigger than they should be in my brain in certain things that aren't
48:20
that small way smaller than they should be. So I always saw this in my head, because again, I didn't
48:25
grow up in church. But when I started reading the Bible for myself in high school, I always saw this
48:29
scene as yeah, I was just kind of raining. You know, the wind was blowing and all that. But I just
48:34
assumed like that it didn't it wasn't like the ocean, right? I was like, they could probably see the
48:40
shore worst case scenario, they could swim back to shore. That's how I kind of had it in my mind.
48:44
But a long way from the land, we're talking like three miles from land ish. That's how far out they
48:51
were. So they made as well have been in the middle of the ocean. They could not see land. They could
48:55
not swim to land. Also, this was between three and six AM. Okay, so that's what the fourth watch
49:01
was between three and six AM. So assuming there wasn't a whole lot of ambient light at this time,
49:07
because of the storm clouds, it is completely dark, right? Eric's looking at the ESV study
49:12
Bible right now, they have a picture of what the boat looked like that the 12 disciples and Jesus
49:16
were in. This is a dinghy with a sail. Okay, this is not a nice boat. This is not a yacht. This is
49:21
not a cruise ship. But I got to tell you, in understanding what this storm was actually like,
49:26
I wouldn't want to be in a cruise ship in that storm either. Like this was super, super duper
49:31
sketch. And so I'm glad that I got to see how the chosen depicted it because it's like, okay,
49:36
it was basically pitch black. It was a crazy storm. They're like, we're gonna freaking die.
49:40
And also, there was someplace that I saw in one of the, the commentaries where it said it,
49:45
the based on the time period that they would have gotten in the boat and the time period when this
49:49
happened, they had been fighting the storm for about nine hours. So it wasn't like, Oh, it's crazy.
49:55
And it's been a half hour. And this is nuts. For nine hours, longer than a shifted Applebee's,
50:00
they're out there like fighting for their lives in the middle of the sea thinking they're going to
50:04
go down at any moment. And so that's one thing I kind of want to discuss about like, hey,
50:09
this is way more intense than maybe I ever discussed or thought about before. But again,
50:15
that's not the point. I think if you could put a point on this entire thing, it was Jesus showing
50:20
himself as the ultimate protector to these men. And as you can see there from the very end,
50:25
it's like they've seen miracles for God knows how long at this point, right? Weeks, months,
50:30
maybe even years at this point, they've been seeing miracles, they've been seeing these
50:33
healings and all that. But this is the only time in Matthew where they use his full title,
50:38
truly, or the son of God, it's like none of the other stuff like what was enough for you to be
50:43
convinced of this. Yet the dude had to walk on water. So I just want to point a few of those
50:48
things out. But what do you all think about that? Well, with that point, what was it? It was a few
50:52
weeks back. Remember the at the gatherings, the two men that came up and they're like, they knew
50:59
exactly who Jesus was? Like right off the bat, they're like, you're the son of God. Yeah. And
51:04
they're like, right, you come to tour minutes before the time. I mean, that was such an irony,
51:09
you know, because the disciples were still trying to figure it out. So that is funny.
51:14
I'm just trying to figure out like what? Why? Why are they? Are they trying to do a shortcut to
51:20
get up to the other side of the lake to go somewhere? I mean, what's what? Why are they out there?
51:24
So my Sunday school teacher, Terry Fakes, he uses maps a lot and it's been a while. So I don't
51:32
want to go into too much detail because I'll probably mess it up. But he tells stories like this using
51:37
the maps and he kind of traces their journey. And like he shows like where they're at and where
51:43
Jesus is coming from. And like, like to your point, like they're out there. This is like if
51:49
Jesus had hopped in a boat, he wouldn't have caught him. Like the mere fact that he shows up
51:56
is something only God could do. And then he has Peter come out and walk on the water.
52:02
But like having the maps and understanding, you know, the the gravity of
52:08
what is going on is really cool to see. Like this wasn't just like some like pond in your
52:16
neighborhood. One another thing that that just came came up for me is again, we don't know this.
52:21
But we can assume that Jesus walked from shore to them in the sea. Okay, one step at a time. Now
52:30
back in the day, Matt, when you and I were in walking fitness class in college, great class,
52:34
great class, right? So if you needed to get that PE credit, you could do some hard stuff or you
52:38
can take walking fitness. It's just like what it sounds like show up and walk for 50 minutes, baby.
52:44
Well, one day we did a walking test. And Matt and I were like, we are going to blow this test out
52:49
of the water. So at the gym at our university, every lap, there were 11 laps, I think was one mile
52:56
equal one mile. And it's like, all right, we're going to get it. We're going to be Olympic level
53:00
walkers. And we walked a mile in like 12 minutes. We were booking. We were absolutely booking it.
53:06
But let's say Jesus was just going on a leisurely stroll. So let's say it took him 30 minutes to
53:10
walk a mile, right? It's in the middle of the storm. He probably had to step up and down here and
53:14
there. He knew where he was headed and he knew they were finding the entire way. So if it took
53:19
him 90 minutes to get out there, well, they've been fighting this thing for nine hours. But the
53:24
disciples didn't know that they were okay. But Jesus did. Jesus knew, Hey, I got you, but the
53:29
disciples didn't. And then even after Jesus arrived, and Peter's walking out to him, like Jesus knows
53:36
that he's got him. But Peter doesn't know that he's got him the entire time. Because what does he do?
53:40
Starts starts a sink starts a sink as he's looking around. But who starts to sink? Do you ever jump
53:47
in a pool and start to sink? It was so weird. It's like it was proportional to his faith and
53:54
has a way. Oh my gosh. It's a great story of faith. It's like you said before. He's healed all
54:03
these people. And now it takes them takes him walking on water for them to be like, this is the
54:08
son of God. And then he gets out of the boat, but still doesn't have faith in the son of God because
54:13
he starts to sink. Isn't that weird though? How does he have as much faith to getting out of the
54:18
boat? That's the hard part, seemingly, and putting your feet on to water and not sinking. It's just
54:23
weird. How did you have enough faith to do that? But not to continue? This is like the story in
54:27
Mark. Is it Mark 9 where he says, I believe, help my unbelief. Yeah, that's the father in Mark 9. I
54:33
believe, but at the same time, man, I'm having trouble believing. It's like those Christians who say,
54:39
I believe, but then they go through tough times that go through the waves. And then they're like,
54:43
they sink because they're not they don't have a stronghold in their faith. And I think that's what
54:49
we're kind of getting at here in this story is that we can see all this miraculous things being
54:54
done. But it's our faith being the size of a mustard seed is the most faith that we even need.
54:59
This is obviously speculation. Peter's called the rock.
55:03
And the rocks sinks. No, no, no, no, no. He'll follow me, follow me on this.
55:08
That's that's that's it. He could the fish too. So he's called the rock. And in the parable of
55:13
the sower, the seeds that are that go on rocks are very brash. They quickly make decisions.
55:20
And they go and then stuff happens and they're like, Oh crap, I should play them out. Yeah. Like,
55:24
so it could be like kind of a view of God's humor in that he names Peter is the rock.
55:32
And he's like, there's some there's some similarities there, right? And I don't maybe
55:37
that's crazy. I see it because it's not in scripture, but I see Judas as a thorns and getting caught up
55:41
in the culture. Well, and here's the other thing. I think they're because of all the disciples I
55:46
most align with Peter because it's like Peter's awesome, but he also sucks a lot. And so when you
55:50
read through scripture, like, it's just like Peter's a clown. Like he's ready to fight cuts of dudes
55:57
ear off Jesus. I feel like God's like that. Christ is like that the whole time again.
56:02
Like you have to think that because again, Jesus had a personality at some point you have to
56:06
think that Jesus just put his hands on his head and like, Oh God, Peter. Oh, me, Peter.
56:12
In the early 2000s, there were these, there were these old videos of Jesus that were dubbed over,
56:18
very, I mean, I can't remember what it was called. There was videos of Jesus.
56:23
There's this is this movies that were made about Jesus. And then they were dubbed over.
56:28
And it was it was hilarious. I'll have to find it. But it's like a Kung Fu movie.
56:34
Remember the day? No, it's like the original movie was like just the life of Christ. It was
56:39
obviously shot in the 70s or 80s. But then in the early 2000s, some church in North Carolina
56:43
dubbed over with these really funny voices. And Jesus had this hilarious voice. And like Peter
56:49
would like go out and like the way he talks to Peter in those, in those videos is, is like,
56:54
it's kind of like what you're describing. I mean, it's got this guy in Peter. How many times do I
56:58
have to tell you? Peter is getting out of the boat. And the point is Peter is constantly the
57:04
guy messing up. And then he was the guy that Jesus picked to build his church upon.
57:09
Not to be the first pope, but like for him to build his his church upon was the guy that
57:14
constantly messed up the ego maniac, the guy that, you know, let us, you know, mouth talk before his
57:19
brain was able to process anything, build his church on the rock. Yeah, absolutely. And this
57:23
rock did not sink. Hey, let's hit this last section right here. Ryan, if you'll do 34 through 36,
57:29
I'm just going to tell you right now, I don't think anyone at this table knows how to pronounce
57:32
that word. Jen, Jen, Jen, sorry. Shoot, nailed it. All right, let's go. Let's go with that.
57:39
No, I looked it up because I knew you're going to make me read this.
57:41
I don't want to bear a shoe. Okay. I don't want you to get a complex.
57:47
Okay. Have a complex. Have you ever read? No, you're a kid in Billy Madison.
57:51
You're smart. Everyone loves you suffers. Ryan's kids suffer because now he's not going to read
57:55
your file. My kid's going to be like to today. We're going to, we're going to fix this. We're
57:59
going to fix this. All right. And this is step one. Ryan hit it. All right. And when they had
58:03
crossed over, they came to the land of Gensire. And when the men of that place recognized him,
58:08
they sent, they sent around to all the region and brought to him all who were sick and implored
58:14
him that they might only touch the fringe of his garment. And as many as, and as many as touched
58:21
it were made well. And so I just got to say, this goes back to our discussion earlier.
58:27
I would have read this section because you're coming off of John the Baptist losing his head.
58:32
Jesus feeding somewhere between 15 to 25,000 people with non-existent food. Jesus walking on water.
58:39
And you know, some people touched his clothes and they were, they were healed, right? It's almost
58:44
like this chapter ends with a whimper, right? But again, I literally wrote my margins when,
58:50
when he talked about the fringe of the garment, I wrote like the woman with the problem of blood,
58:53
right? And again, I'm so, I feel like my walk with Christ has been so invigorated by understanding
59:02
that story in a singular way for that one particular person. So that when I read this, and as many,
59:09
we don't know how many. But I'm assuming it's, yeah, it could be thousands.
59:13
Well, look at the faith in that. We just looked at two stories where,
59:19
hey, we've got to feed all these people. We're not going to be able to do it. And oh, I can't walk
59:23
on water or I'm afraid of this storm. And then you have these people, they just want to touch
59:27
an inch of that garment to be healed. That's how much faith they have. Their faith is strong.
59:32
And they're healed for it. Right. I think that's a great place to leave it.
59:37
And just so everyone knows, if I were to have read that, I would have said,
59:40
get an esirate in the way you say it again. Jen's array. Okay. That's like,
59:44
wake, it just feels good. I was with you, Kyle. Hearing that, get an esirate. So the faith it
59:49
takes to just say, okay, just like literally this dude is, he's the guy. All you got to do is
59:56
touch his garment and you'll be healed. But how much more of a promise do we get that we are
1:00:02
actually clothed with his righteousness? Yeah. And man, I just, I can't read these things without
1:00:10
just thinking about how amazing that is. And you know, you were touched by the woman with blood
1:00:18
being healed. And then we just read, you know, how many thousands of people had a similar
1:00:24
story and their testimony with that, with, you know, with people in their immediate area and
1:00:30
for the rest of their life, anybody they came in contact with. And to your point,
1:00:35
we have, we've been saved and we also have story to tell. We, we have a gospel to proclaim and
1:00:41
and that's a very important, important, important thing for us to do. So,
1:00:46
and we never hear that woman's name. We don't know what her name is. She's never mentioned again.
1:00:52
In Scripture, we don't get a follow up. She's not going to get a spin off series, like any of
1:00:56
those types of things. But don't you think that when Jesus was crucified, that she was in the area,
1:01:04
knew about it and was absolutely crushed to know that the man, the God man that saved her
1:01:09
was now being crucified because she didn't know the ending of the story, right? She was just like
1:01:14
everybody else like, Oh, I thought he was, I thought he was the conquering savior and he's going to die.
1:01:18
Don't you think that she was one of the, the loud voices whenever he was resurrected? Maybe
1:01:23
she was there. Maybe she was amongst the 500 that we see in Scripture. But I would assume that she
1:01:28
would have been exactly one of those people that would have been willing to walk calmly
1:01:33
to her death, to her persecution, because not of what she read, because there was nothing to read
1:01:38
at that moment. But just because of what she saw, which again, that that's another thing for me to
1:01:44
where it's just like it, it puts personality on the story. It doesn't infuse it. That's not there.
1:01:51
It reveals it from the, I mean, because there's so much about this woman's life and how many of
1:01:56
these many that touched his garment and were healed became disciples, not apostles, but became disciples
1:02:04
of Jesus. And they could have been first century martyrs, right? Because they saw the power of God
1:02:10
specifically in their life. It's an incredible thing. Just think with the ones who saw the power,
1:02:17
but didn't believe it. And that's even worse. Man, I got to tell you, that's another really good
1:02:22
point, because I think it may have been Joby the first time whenever he talked about in a sermon,
1:02:26
or it may have been just in a personal conversation. He's just like, you know, these people that say
1:02:30
they just want to sign, there are people that saw Jesus ascend to heaven and still don't believe.
1:02:35
Well, that was the point. You know, Jonah, where we were, we're going to go back is they wanted
1:02:39
to sign. He's these adulterous evil people. I gave you one asked for a sign. And he's like,
1:02:44
I've been giving you signs. Like these 1000 people just touch my cloak and they're all healed.
1:02:49
Is that not enough enough of a sign for you? Well, more do you need to see? Yeah. And it's
1:02:53
entertainment. It's all it is for them entertainment. Well, it's always easier to connect the dots
1:02:57
looking backwards than it is looking forward. And so these people are living in the moment,
1:03:01
and they really don't know what the next moment takes. It's easy for us because we see the thread
1:03:05
and we see the ending of the story. That's why it's important to dig into the Bible for yourself,
1:03:08
guys. Don't just let your pastor read to you. But guys, we're going to leave it there and come back
1:03:11
here next Sunday where we're going to dig into Matthew 15. So make sure you're read through there.
1:03:15
So that you're prepared. Before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost and
1:03:18
a daunted life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges
1:03:22
spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So the forging table starter set from Crossway that
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we talked about all the links are here in the show notes for that. And then also we got a link to
1:03:30
our donation page. If you want to help us equipment around the globe to push back darkness, we need
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your help hop in and be part of the team. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
1:03:37
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.
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1:04:11
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual
1:04:17
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