0:00
(upbeat music)
0:01
LinkedIn is great at connecting you
0:03
with the world's largest professional network,
0:06
but it can't connect you with motivation
0:08
on a Monday morning.
0:09
LinkedIn can help you get insights
0:10
from your professional community,
0:12
but it can't give you any insight
0:14
into why Dave's is still talking on mute.
0:16
And while it can't stop your boss
0:17
from bringing tuna for lunch,
0:19
LinkedIn can help bring your career to the next level.
0:22
LinkedIn is the network that works for you.
0:25
Visit LinkedIn.com to learn more.
0:30
Struggling with weight loss?
0:31
Prolon's five-day fasting mimicking diet
0:33
is a clinically developed nutrition program
0:35
designed to promote fat loss
0:37
while protecting lean body mass.
0:38
Developed at USC's Longevity Institute,
0:41
it assists the body in entering a fasting-like state
0:44
that helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat.
0:47
In just five days,
0:48
Prolon offers a science-backed approach to weight loss
0:50
without extreme restriction or guesswork.
0:52
Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift
0:55
when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now.
1:00
(dramatic music)
1:02
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it.
1:24
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life
1:28
is equipping men to push back darkness
1:29
and content that forges spiritual, mental,
1:32
and physical resilience.
1:33
At the forging table,
1:34
you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:36
by digging into God's word.
1:37
And we're welcoming all of you to come along
1:39
on that journey with us.
1:40
OG crew, we got Ryan, we got Eric, we got Matt.
1:43
Now, right before we started recording, Eric,
1:44
you said something about not liking women
1:46
and thinking they should be able to vote
1:48
or anything like that.
1:49
- No, that wasn't it.
1:49
- You didn't say that?
1:50
- No.
1:51
- I must have misunderstood.
1:52
- Guys, what happened?
1:53
- You said, what happened to Kyle's podcast?
1:55
- Kyle, Kyle goes,
1:56
hey, out of all the girls that I know of the group,
1:59
like I think your wife Rachel,
2:00
I think she really likes me.
2:01
I think she like, she like, we get along.
2:04
I was like, she did until you were like, I hate women.
2:07
- So, well, God, you just like,
2:09
you tell stories like a guy with a hatchet,
2:12
like cutting up an entire family.
2:14
Let's go back, we're at dinner.
2:15
There's three couples at dinner.
2:16
And you know, I'm just like trying to say things
2:18
to get a rise out of people, which I never do.
2:20
That's like super not what go ahead.
2:22
- 'Cause you have the dry sense of humor.
2:24
Like, I can never tell when you're joking sometimes.
2:26
- I'm like, is he serious?
2:27
- I've never been accused of having a dry sense of humor.
2:30
I'm very sarcastic, but dry is like British humor.
2:34
Like the British version of the office.
2:35
- I already called you an atheist last time.
2:36
- Yeah, he did.
2:37
- And I just called you a Brit.
2:38
- But yeah, I just like, I just looked at your wife
2:40
with a let in my eye and a smile on my face and I just go,
2:42
yeah, I'm just not a huge fan of women.
2:44
I just wish they wouldn't talk so much
2:46
and really have any input on anything.
2:47
- That's how I like to run my marriage.
2:49
- Right, so I thought she would be down with that
2:52
because she stays with you.
2:53
And then of course, like, you know,
2:54
she's kind of smiled at it, but yeah,
2:56
I guess I really bothered her.
2:58
- It didn't bother her that much.
2:59
- Okay, good.
3:00
- I just thought it was funny.
3:01
- I will say I've spent a lot of time
3:03
in and around Matt's wife as well
3:05
and your wife's kind of a thug and I love it
3:07
because like she will just say things sometimes.
3:09
I'm not gonna say what she said to me on the 4th of July,
3:12
but it had to do with, you know,
3:14
the type of son y'all were gonna raise.
3:16
And I was just like, I was shocked and excited
3:18
all at the same time because the way she described
3:21
the type of boy she wants to raise.
3:23
I was like, yeah, exactly what you're talking about.
3:24
Yeah, I'd love her for that too.
3:26
- She's not blushing.
3:27
- She's pretty great.
3:28
- Hey, she is a lioness for sure,
3:30
but hey, we're gonna dig into Matthew 13 today
3:33
before I say anything that gets me in trouble
3:35
with any other feminists because here's the thing.
3:37
I got a thing against them.
3:38
Here I'm just going right back into it
3:40
because I was supposed to have a debate
3:42
with like this big time left leaning
3:44
so-called Christian feminist,
3:46
Kristin Copes-Dumez or whatever,
3:48
Jesus of John Wayne, and then she refused to debate me
3:52
and then they hooked me up with another debate
3:54
with another feminist and then she refused to debate me.
3:57
So I just like, yeah, it doesn't,
3:59
I already hate women apparently
4:00
so it's like it didn't give me too many favors.
4:02
- I'm gonna point this out for my wife.
4:04
So she knows she's not a feminist.
4:06
- She's not a feminist.
4:07
- No, she is not a feminist.
4:08
My wife honestly doesn't believe
4:10
that a woman should be president.
4:12
That's like the least feminist you could be.
4:15
Even I'm like, I don't see an issue with that.
4:17
- But who's that one girl?
4:18
Pearl, something, she's a redheaded gal that like-
4:21
- She's a- - Pearl Davis.
4:23
Like she's big anti-feminist
4:25
and she's like super advocating for the fact
4:27
that women shouldn't be able to vote.
4:28
She's like, look, things would be so much better
4:31
if women couldn't vote.
4:32
And when you look at elections,
4:33
they only show the map where men
4:35
are the ones doing the electing.
4:37
Like it's typically all Republicans
4:39
or conservatives that are put in there,
4:41
but she's just like, look, that's not the point.
4:43
She's not a Christian at all.
4:44
Like, but she's just like, yeah,
4:45
society has certainly not gotten better
4:47
since the gender revolution
4:50
and equality and all these different areas.
4:51
Like first, second, third wave,
4:53
now in a fourth wave feminism.
4:54
She's like, you're telling me things are better
4:56
for culture and the family as a whole?
4:58
She doesn't get it.
4:59
- We'd let 18 year olds vote.
5:00
Like you can live with your mom
5:01
and dad and be on their insurance till you're 26,
5:04
but you can vote when you're 18.
5:05
Like 26, really, wow.
5:07
- Yeah, 26.
5:08
I'm like, you shouldn't be able to vote
5:09
until you like move out.
5:12
- I will say like he says some ridiculous things
5:15
but Matt Walsh has pointed out before
5:17
that you should have to pass a test
5:19
to be able to vote.
5:21
And people think that that is like sacrilege to say,
5:23
but I'm like, I actually could fully get behind that.
5:26
And this is why, because if you spin,
5:28
so like let's say an election's coming up
5:30
and you spend hours listening to candidates,
5:33
reading their platforms,
5:34
maybe even asking them questions at town halls
5:37
and all those things.
5:37
And then it comes to vote day
5:38
and your vote counts for exactly one vote.
5:41
And I know morons, this literally happened in 2020,
5:44
they went to the booth and voted for Kanye West
5:47
for president because they thought it was funny.
5:50
So you're well-informed vote
5:52
and you know the different branches of government
5:54
and you know how all these things work
5:55
and how a bill becomes law.
5:56
And then you walk in there and pull the lever for somebody
5:58
while some moron just canceled out your vote
6:00
by voting for a rapper.
6:02
So it's like, I'm kind of down with that.
6:03
- I think you should have to pay taxes to vote.
6:06
- Ooh, like are we hitting all the controversial subjects
6:09
on this topic?
6:10
- You literally have to pay taxes.
6:12
- That's very bigoted of you.
6:13
- It's not bigoted, it's like--
6:14
- Yeah, somehow it is.
6:16
- I agree with Matt, but I don't know why.
6:18
- And the bald head doesn't help.
6:19
- Should we talk about the Bible?
6:21
Should we talk about parables?
6:22
Like, oh, you need to transition us.
6:24
- Well, Pearl Davis brings up a lot of good points
6:26
but she doesn't have the solution.
6:28
Well, the solution is right in here,
6:29
so let's get into that.
6:30
- Oh, wow.
6:31
- Okay, Matt.
6:32
- Okay, the thing is is like--
6:33
- With the mustache, you like poking it.
6:34
- I can't, right.
6:35
Yeah, I mean, I can literally hear them in my headphones.
6:37
You're mustache scratching across the mic,
6:39
which is like, you're gonna have to kind of figure that one out.
6:41
But yeah, I'm gonna have to have you on for all of these
6:43
if you're just gonna keep having these silky transitions.
6:46
Can you dedicate every single month to coming back on here?
6:49
Every week, can you do that?
6:51
All right, I know your wife, I know the answer to that one.
6:53
- Because wife's a lioness is happening.
6:55
- So this is what we're gonna do.
6:56
So chapter 13 of the Book of Matthew
7:00
is interesting in terms of how it's kind of set up
7:03
because it has like a parable
7:04
and then there's kind of like a little break
7:06
explaining parables and then it explains
7:07
the specific parable.
7:09
So we're gonna skip around just a little bit today,
7:11
but we'll obviously sign post for you
7:12
so you know where we're going.
7:14
So Matt, if you would, let's start off
7:15
with the purpose of parables.
7:17
So that's starting in verse 10
7:19
and goes through verse 17 of Matthew 13.
7:22
- You got it.
7:23
Then the disciples came and said to him,
7:25
"Why do you speak to them in parables?"
7:27
And he answered them,
7:29
"To you it has been given to know the secrets
7:31
of the kingdom of heaven, but to them, it has not been given.
7:35
For to the one who has, more will be given,
7:38
and he will have an abundance.
7:39
But from the one who has not,
7:42
even what he has will be taken away."
7:44
This is why I speak to them in parables
7:46
because seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear,
7:50
nor do they understand.
7:51
Indeed, in their case, the prophecy of Isaiah
7:53
is fulfilled that says,
7:55
"You will indeed hear but never understand.
7:57
You will indeed see but never perceive.
8:01
For this people's heart has grown dull,
8:03
and with their ears they can barely hear
8:06
and their eyes they have been closed.
8:08
Unless they should see with their eyes
8:10
and hear with their ears and understand with their heart
8:13
and turn and I would heal them.
8:15
But blessed are your eyes for they see
8:18
and your ears for they hear.
8:19
For truly I say to you, many prophets and righteous people
8:22
long to see what you see and did not see it
8:25
and to hear what you hear and did not hear it."
8:29
Okay, so let's open this up.
8:30
I feel like we're gonna hang out here for a little bit,
8:32
but the Reformation Study Bible,
8:34
I thought had a really good note on this section.
8:36
It basically said, I'm paraphrasing,
8:38
that if you have Jesus, okay,
8:40
so if you have faith in Christ,
8:42
parables will deepen your understanding of Christ
8:45
in relation to you, right?
8:47
But if you don't have Christ,
8:49
that you just won't get it
8:50
and the parables will make you more confused.
8:53
So even if you earnestly go to the parable
8:55
with a deep desire to understand,
8:57
you will not if you don't have Christ.
8:59
But this obviously opens up the discussion
9:02
of which we kind of tabled a couple of weeks ago,
9:05
talking about the tension between sovereignty
9:10
and election and free will and decisions
9:15
and making in those types of things.
9:17
But this entire part where Jesus is explaining
9:19
the purpose of parables,
9:20
he's talking about how understanding is a gift.
9:24
That it doesn't just, I guess the way I would describe it
9:28
is it doesn't just happen.
9:29
You don't just get there by your intellectual might
9:32
and horsepower that understanding these parables
9:35
and understanding the sacrifice of Jesus is a gift.
9:38
So there's not an exact question there.
9:40
I'm just curious what you guys think about this section
9:41
before we dig into individual parables.
9:44
- I was reminded of Matthew seven, six,
9:48
as pearls are not given to dogs or swine.
9:50
You don't cast them before them.
9:53
That was one of the things that came up.
9:54
And I just wrote it out next to it.
9:56
I said, faith, is it a prerequisite to revelation
10:00
or to understanding revelation?
10:03
- Say that again.
10:05
- Is faith a prerequisite to understanding revealed truth?
10:10
So I was kind of in the same boat.
10:13
I just, when I was looking back through
10:16
like all the healings and things like that,
10:18
it was faith, people are coming to him with faith.
10:23
And because of that faith, he says,
10:24
your faith has made you well.
10:26
Go send no more, et cetera.
10:28
So are these people coming because they are,
10:33
they're hearing about these healings
10:34
and they're hearing about these wonderful things
10:36
that this guy is doing.
10:37
They're like, yeah, let's go check it out.
10:39
They're looking for entertainment,
10:41
but they're not there to seek.
10:43
They're not really there.
10:44
They're just there to be entertained
10:46
and not really there to have their hearts changed,
10:48
their minds changed, their souls changed.
10:51
- Yeah.
10:52
What's interesting about this is I love commentary
10:56
on these things 'cause I feel like it helps me understand
10:59
a lot better.
10:59
My MacArthur commentary says that the veiling
11:03
of these things is an act of mercy
11:06
and also an act of judgment.
11:07
It's a mercy in that it is,
11:09
or it's a judgment in that they don't understand,
11:11
but then it's a mercy in that they are being saved
11:16
from hearing the truth, which would lead
11:18
to more condemnation.
11:20
So I thought that was an interesting point.
11:21
I've never thought of it that way.
11:24
- That's exactly how I thought.
11:25
- Well, if y'all just agree the entire time,
11:28
this isn't gonna be that fun.
11:29
So it just made sense.
11:31
- I mean, so we know that we have general revelation
11:34
and that's everywhere around us.
11:35
Would you guys say that all people at some point in their life
11:42
have to ask themselves the basic questions of life?
11:46
Like, what am I doing here?
11:48
And what's wrong with me and where am I going?
11:53
It's my purpose.
11:53
When people ask those questions,
12:00
does God inclined to respond to those in some form or fashion?
12:05
Or, I mean, how's the Calvinist look at that?
12:09
If a person's asking those questions,
12:11
or can they even ask those questions?
12:13
I assume that everybody asks those questions at some point.
12:16
- Well, before you guys answer,
12:17
I want you to marinate on that a little bit.
12:18
So, I'll lose it at your point a little bit further.
12:21
Just before we started recording,
12:23
I saw a video of, I can't remember how I'll say the guy's
12:26
last name, Dan Balzerian or whatever.
12:29
So, this is like a internet playboy type guy.
12:33
Like, he's constantly got these videos of him
12:35
riding around on like, tanks, shooting guns.
12:38
He's always surrounded by these beautiful, gorgeous women.
12:42
Every time he does an interview,
12:43
he's talking about his sexual exploits
12:45
and oh, I had sex this many times in one day
12:46
and he's always on these yachts with all these women,
12:48
blah, blah, blah, like living the life.
12:50
Single guy, supposedly has won his money
12:53
with these offshore poker games
12:55
in these high-level situations, right?
12:56
So, the most carnal of manly pleasures,
13:00
this guy has done it all.
13:02
Well, I just saw a recent interview,
13:03
I think he was with one of the Paul brothers,
13:05
Logan Paul, not the boxer,
13:07
but the, well, I gotta say, well, it doesn't matter.
13:09
And so, he's describing like,
13:12
"Hey, I've done everything I've ever wanted to do.
13:15
"Like, I've got money, I have sex with all these beautiful women.
13:18
"Like, I have everything I could ever want,
13:20
"but he's basically talking about, but I'm empty.
13:23
"Like, and I don't know why."
13:24
And you could see Logan Paul kind of looking down
13:27
'cause you could tell he's kind of perhaps thinking
13:29
the same thing for himself.
13:31
You know, tons of money, tons of leverage,
13:33
like businesses, women, and, but this damn guy,
13:36
he's like, and again, he's describing in these very,
13:38
very vulgar ways, but he's just like,
13:40
"If you ever think that you're gonna be the exception
13:43
"to the rule that if you were to be able
13:45
"to get all these things, it would make you happy,
13:47
"it's like, just listen to me,
13:48
"it's not gonna make you happy."
13:50
But it seemed like he was stopping short.
13:53
He would get to those questions,
13:54
but he would maybe stop short as to why do I feel empty?
13:57
It was just like, well, I guess there's nothing
13:59
at the top of the mountain is what it kind of sounded like.
14:01
So just to kind of push your point further,
14:03
but he was kind of asking you guys
14:05
for the Calvinist perspective on asking those deeper questions.
14:09
- I mean, I think everybody has to come to grips
14:13
with those questions.
14:15
Everybody who lives has at least thought about that once.
14:24
Like, why are we here?
14:25
What is the meaning of life?
14:26
What happens after I die?
14:28
Like, these are things that are natural for us
14:30
or wrestle with, which I think is an argument for evangelism.
14:35
We're called to preach the word and the truth,
14:41
but it's God who opens the eyes for sure.
14:43
And I think, I don't wanna sit in God's seat and say
14:48
he's not gonna answer people who ask,
14:52
but he's the one that opens their eyes
14:55
and he's the one that gives them the understanding.
14:58
But I think right here is a pretty black and white right there
15:01
with what Jesus is saying.
15:03
- Well, look at it is, you know,
15:05
are they even coming to God with those questions?
15:08
Usually if you're looking at somebody outside of scripture
15:11
who's asking those questions,
15:14
they look at different philosophies.
15:15
They look at different philosophers, you know,
15:18
they might go into Nietzsche or Kierkegaard
15:20
or whoever you wanna talk about.
15:22
And I kinda noticed those people
15:24
because they'll be like, you know,
15:26
how we're kinda considered the Calvinists of the table
15:28
because of our theology kind of leans towards that.
15:32
They will sit there and they will focus
15:33
on that philosopher in the way that they looked at life
15:36
and that's where they're gonna get their answers.
15:38
They're not gonna get their answers from the Bible
15:40
unless they go and seek it.
15:42
Some people will be like,
15:44
"Ah, I'm gonna go seek it in scripture."
15:47
Or somebody's finds out, you know,
15:50
or someone's invited to church
15:51
and they hear the message and their eyes are opened
15:53
and they go and seek more.
15:56
So I think it just comes down to,
15:58
are those people even asking God?
15:59
And if they ask God and they wanna know what God thinks,
16:01
what God thinks, it's right there in scripture.
16:03
- I agree with that to a certain point,
16:05
but I think God reveals himself
16:07
who he's gonna reveal himself to.
16:08
- Oh, I agree with you too.
16:09
- Even if they're not seeking God,
16:11
I think God can use you, me, anybody,
16:14
to go speak truth to that person
16:16
who is seeking those things out.
16:18
Again, another call to evangelism.
16:21
We should be sharing and we should be asking questions
16:25
and taking questions because God's gonna reveal
16:28
to who he wants to reveal.
16:29
- He may not reveal through you.
16:31
- That's true.
16:32
- He may reveal through me.
16:33
- Yeah, that's true.
16:33
- You know, and so that's why you just don't stop.
16:35
You just keep going because hey, maybe that person
16:38
didn't, God didn't reveal through me,
16:40
but maybe he reveals through Matt.
16:43
So yeah, but we also have our scripture
16:45
and we also know where truth comes from.
16:47
And a lot of people have come to Christ
16:49
by reading scripture.
16:50
And I think that's what it comes down to with the parables
16:52
is will God open your eyes to the words that I'm speaking,
16:55
to the words that you're reading,
16:57
or the words that Matt may speak?
16:58
You know, is he gonna open our eyes to that?
17:00
- But it is also a gift.
17:02
Like, I mean, I think Kyle's mentioned this before,
17:05
people in like Muslim countries
17:09
who've never read the Bible,
17:10
Jesus comes to them in a dream
17:13
and they come to Christ.
17:14
- Very common.
17:15
- So like, yeah, we talk to people
17:20
that don't have access to the Bible.
17:21
So you'll have-
17:22
- That's not something you lie about in that culture either.
17:24
Like that gets you killed.
17:25
- And I agree with you.
17:26
I mean, Christ is gonna work certain miracles
17:29
in certain ways that, you know, we may not comprehend.
17:32
I mean, we're talking about our Savior
17:33
who died and was resurrected three days later.
17:35
So him coming to somebody who would dream
17:37
rather than them reading the Bible
17:39
or hearing you and I spread the gospel
17:41
can still totally happen.
17:43
- Yeah, one of the things in this just on a kind of a sidebar,
17:46
but I've got a friend that's a,
17:49
gosh, I don't even know if he would call himself agnostic anymore.
17:51
But he and I've had discussions about, you know,
17:56
about the afterlife and whatnot
17:58
and just pretty much convinced there's no God.
18:01
And he feels like everything that can be explained
18:06
will be explained and it really frustrates me
18:10
because he's willing to say, you know,
18:13
I'll go to my deathbed, not knowing all the answers
18:17
because I'm certain at some point we'll figure it out,
18:22
kind of thing and the naturalism
18:24
and all that will figure out everything that bothers me.
18:28
And it hurts me too because I know this guy,
18:32
and I really, really like him,
18:34
but I'm just like, mean, you're believing a lie
18:37
that you're willing to die on that,
18:40
that lie that eventually will figure it out.
18:44
I mean, I know that's, I don't know who it is.
18:46
Some famous guy is unleashed AI
18:49
to try to answer the unanswerable questions
18:52
and whether it happens or not, I don't know.
18:54
But just an interesting kind of sidebar.
18:58
I know that didn't really fit exactly, but just...
19:02
- No, that's a really good point
19:03
because that's the antithesis to the God of the gaps
19:07
is the scientific community,
19:08
the atheist scientific community specifically,
19:12
will say, well, we just don't understand it all yet.
19:16
We will, we're just not there yet.
19:18
And to me, that's just like when you talk about,
19:21
well, I don't know what it is, so it's God,
19:23
like the God of the gaps that you talk about sometimes Kyle,
19:27
like that's the same thing.
19:28
Well, we just don't understand.
19:31
Science hasn't caught up yet, but it will.
19:34
- So they have faith in science.
19:36
- So that's scientism, that's not, yeah.
19:38
- That's the funny thing about your friend is he's,
19:40
doesn't believe your faith, but he has faith in nothing
19:44
that thinks it's gonna come back to something.
19:47
- Which also because it's not falsifiable.
19:49
So if someone says, well, science will eventually
19:50
figure that out.
19:51
You can't prove or disprove that statement.
19:54
So it's kind of a, it's a stop of the conversation.
19:59
It's considered to be an Ace of Spades argument,
20:01
but it's like it's basically vacuous.
20:02
- It's like when people use what aboutism
20:04
and you're arguing, just to stop it.
20:07
- Well, the thing is, is like, typically what aboutism
20:10
is an effective way, like, okay, well, this is this way.
20:13
What about this situation that is exactly the same
20:16
circumstantially, but has a different outcome?
20:18
- Yeah.
20:19
- Like, but then people will just say their argument is,
20:21
that's what aboutism, it's like, that's not an argument.
20:23
- It's not an argument, it's a very lazy argument.
20:25
- You're describing something without pre-scribing something.
20:28
- Yeah, correct, I did say what about this.
20:30
Can you answer that now?
20:31
- Exactly.
20:32
- Okay, well, let's actually dig in.
20:34
Well, before we dig into the parable of the sewer,
20:36
I didn't want to kind of throw out there
20:37
that we have worked with Crossway
20:40
to make sure that if guys like you
20:41
want to start your own forging table, that you can do so.
20:44
So we have a forging table starter set.
20:46
That is gonna be in the show notes.
20:48
There are five books, there's a Bible,
20:49
there's a devotional, there's a journal,
20:51
and there's a couple of other books.
20:52
It's an absolutely fantastic set of books,
20:55
but most of the times, if you were to buy this by yourself,
20:57
you would have to pay full price for everything,
20:59
but Crossway's allowing us to bundle
21:01
all five of these books together,
21:02
and then you get 50% off of the entire bundle
21:05
so that you could start your own forging table.
21:07
So all you have to do is go to crossway.org
21:09
to create a free Crossway Plus account,
21:11
put all these books into your cart,
21:13
and then whenever you go to checkout,
21:15
just put in the promo code BSSP50.
21:17
That's Bravo Sierra Sierra,
21:19
a pop of five zero to get 50% off at checkout.
21:22
That is all gonna be right there in the show notes,
21:24
but we need to go ahead and dig into the par--
21:26
Go ahead, yeah, Matt.
21:27
- I have one more point on this.
21:28
This is something that's a very,
21:31
is a very joyful thing to think about,
21:32
and this is where he ends,
21:35
where Matthew ends talking about many prophets
21:39
and righteous people long to see what you see
21:41
and did not see it and to hear what you hear
21:43
and did not hear it.
21:44
And I'm reminded of that Shane and Shane song,
21:47
"Sing unto the Lord," where he talks about
21:48
what they knew by faith,
21:50
we know by name, that Jesus is king,
21:53
and we don't have to know by faith of what is coming
21:56
because we know what has already come,
21:59
and we should find real joy in that
22:02
because we do see it.
22:03
We know that Christ is king and that he was here,
22:07
he walked and he died and was resurrected.
22:10
That's a really cool thing to think about.
22:12
- Well, let's dig into the parable of the sower.
22:13
So I guess what we're gonna do is there's
22:16
the parable of the sower itself,
22:18
and then there's a section where the parable
22:20
is actually explained.
22:21
So we're just gonna read those back to back
22:23
and then just discuss the parable
22:24
'cause there's several parables in Matthew 13.
22:27
So Eric, if you will read verses one through nine,
22:31
and then we will skip immediately over
22:33
to verses 18 through 23.
22:37
So one through nine and then 18 through 23, please.
22:40
- That same day, Jesus went out of the house
22:42
and sat beside the sea,
22:44
and great crowds gathered about him.
22:46
So he got into a boat and sat down,
22:48
and the whole crowd stood on the beach,
22:50
and he told them many things in parable,
22:51
saying as sower went out to sow,
22:54
and he sowed, and some seeds fell along the path,
22:58
and the birds came and devoured them.
23:00
Other seeds fell on rocky ground,
23:02
where they did not have much soil,
23:04
and immediately they sprang up,
23:05
since they had no depth of soil,
23:07
but when the sun was,
23:09
when the sun rose, they were scorched,
23:12
and since they had no root, they withered away.
23:14
Other seeds fell among thorns,
23:16
and the thorns grew up and choked them.
23:19
Other seeds fell on good soil and produce grain,
23:21
some 100 fold, some 60, some 30.
23:24
He who has ears let him hear.
23:27
- Now verse 18.
23:28
- Here then, the parable of the sower.
23:31
When anyone hears the word of the kingdom
23:34
and does not understand it,
23:35
the evil one comes and snatches away
23:37
what has been sown in his heart.
23:39
This is what is sown along the path.
23:43
As for what was sown on rocky ground,
23:47
this is the one who hears the word
23:48
and immediately receives it with joy,
23:50
yet he has no root in himself,
23:52
but endures for a while,
23:54
and when tribulation or persecution arises
23:57
on account of the word immediately, he falls away.
23:59
As for what was sown among thorns,
24:04
this is the one who hears the word,
24:06
but the cares the world and the deceitfulness
24:08
of riches choke the word,
24:13
and it proves unfruitful.
24:15
As for what was sown on good soil,
24:18
this is the one who hears the word and understands it.
24:21
He indeed bears fruit and yields.
24:23
In one case, 100 fold, another 60, and another 30.
24:28
- So let's dig in here.
24:30
So the word of the kingdom, that's the seed here.
24:33
With the first one,
24:34
the ones that were just along the path,
24:35
that's like people that hear the word,
24:38
but they don't understand it, okay?
24:40
Then we have the second one, you know, along the rocks.
24:42
It's like, you know, they're very passionate about it,
24:44
but there's no follow through.
24:46
So it's just kind of they spring up quickly
24:47
and then die out quickly.
24:49
Then you have the one among the thorns,
24:50
and then obviously as it says,
24:51
you're basically distracted by material things.
24:54
And then obviously you have the good fruit
24:56
that comes from the good soil,
24:58
which is evidence of salvation, yada, yada, yada.
25:01
There's some debate over which of the four groups
25:04
are saved, right?
25:05
You know, some people are like,
25:06
"Well, you could be in group three, but be saved, blah, blah."
25:08
It seems pretty clear that he's giving examples
25:11
of these first three as look you haven't gotten there.
25:14
You haven't received your salvation
25:16
because you haven't been in good soil.
25:17
I want y'all to take this wherever you want to go.
25:19
I do want to make sure that we talk about the rocky ground
25:23
because I was reading through the actual parable
25:25
of the sea that fell among the rocky ground
25:27
where there wasn't soil, it sprang up quickly,
25:29
but then it didn't have the root strength or depth
25:32
to withstand a little bit of pressure from the sun.
25:35
I immediately thought of a lot of churches
25:38
that focus on passion.
25:39
- That's exactly what I thought.
25:40
- And that's exactly where I went.
25:41
- Yeah, they focus on the really good experience, right?
25:45
Really good environment, a great concert, a great message.
25:49
And again, we've talked about that a lot on the show.
25:51
Some people get really uncomfortable with it,
25:52
but whenever you go and it's the same thing every week,
25:55
it's the concert with the TED Talk.
25:57
And you're not getting that depth.
25:59
So a problem comes like 2020 where there's COVID
26:03
and how do we respond to the government?
26:05
And when George Floyd dies in police custody,
26:08
overdose in police custody,
26:09
and we decide we're going to burn down all the cities
26:12
in the world, specifically in America.
26:14
How's the church going to respond to that?
26:16
Well, if you are one of those seeds
26:18
that have fallen among the rocky path,
26:20
you don't have roots.
26:22
And so you will go whichever way the culture is going.
26:25
And then that's what we've seen,
26:27
basically as an outworking of a lot
26:29
of these kind of secret, sensitive movements.
26:31
So I do want to make sure we comment on that,
26:33
but then we can comment on the rest of it as well.
26:34
- We start there.
26:35
I mean, it kind of reminds me of a couple of episodes back
26:37
when you talked about your friend
26:38
finally went through a hard time, lost his job,
26:40
and just totally started blaming God or questioning God.
26:44
Is there even a God?
26:45
So it makes you wonder, you know,
26:46
what kind of foundation was he going through at church?
26:50
- Right.
26:51
- To where, you know, is he sitting in the secret sensitive?
26:53
Here's a bunch of milk, you do UBU.
26:57
- It's funny about that.
26:58
It seems either not going to church
26:59
or going to Craig Rochelle's church.
27:01
Those were--
27:01
- Yeah, I wasn't going to throw out Craig,
27:03
but you know what?
27:04
- It just happened to be that way.
27:05
- Let's throw it out there.
27:06
But yeah, but I mean, I hear you 100% on that.
27:08
I mean, like we've got to, as our church is,
27:11
we've got to start discipling better.
27:13
I mean, I see Craig Rochelle's,
27:17
how do you want to say it?
27:18
What he's trying to do,
27:19
and he's trying to build up,
27:21
trying to, he's trying to bring the word out.
27:27
- He's trying to decrease the barriers to entry so much
27:30
to where, and actually, you're not going to have problems
27:32
or--
27:33
- Yeah, you're going to hear the little bit
27:35
of what you want to hear,
27:37
but some people are going to hear it,
27:38
and actually, 'cause I'm a product
27:40
of Craig Rochelle's church.
27:42
I mean, I became a believer.
27:45
I wasn't discipled very well,
27:49
and I went back into,
27:50
I would say you could throw me back into the third person.
27:53
I went back into the world, you know?
27:55
But then I saw, you know, the beauty of Christ,
27:57
and who he was, probably about the time I'm 33 years old.
28:01
So I already knew I saw the message,
28:03
but then it took somebody to actually disciple me.
28:05
You know, it took people to actually pour into me
28:07
for me to actually kind of grow in my faith
28:10
and grow in my spirituality.
28:11
So, I mean, I don't want to throw down
28:14
secret churches so bad, but they are an issue.
28:16
If you're sitting in a secret church,
28:18
and that's where you're just sitting,
28:20
you're going to watch your friends fall away.
28:23
- Yeah, discipleship, exactly the word that came to mind.
28:28
I just, I know that the church is there
28:32
to edify and to build each other up,
28:34
and it will not bit discipleship, man.
28:37
If we're not discipling our kids,
28:40
if we're not being discipled, then that can be a problem.
28:44
Like my family needs to see how I respond
28:48
in different types of situations
28:51
that I don't fall apart when faith is needed.
28:55
My kids need to know the word.
28:57
This was in our text thread last day or two,
29:00
just how someone said it was so sad
29:03
that people don't read the word.
29:05
I said, it's not sad, it's tragic.
29:07
It's tragic that if you don't know the word enough,
29:12
then you're going to fall for any crap
29:15
that comes this your way.
29:17
- Yeah, it creates an inability to discern, you're right.
29:20
- Exactly, and you just, you fall prey
29:25
to whatever the shifting cultural norm is
29:29
or the half truths that are told.
29:32
So anyways, when I was sitting there listening to you,
29:36
it's just gone, man, it is so important
29:38
that the followers and their household
29:41
are catacizing, that are discipling,
29:44
that are consistently in the word with their children,
29:46
teaching them how to become followers of Christ,
29:50
but also independent in being able to understand
29:54
and then respond to the word.
29:57
Like half these things, you know,
29:58
what we're reading here is just,
29:59
it seems like it's hitting here.
30:00
Like I immediately, I thought in one ear out the other.
30:03
You know, it comes in, but it gets stuck
30:07
like right here, right at their heart.
30:08
And then there's ones in the soil,
30:11
the good soil that are going out
30:13
and actually it's head to heart the hands.
30:15
- Right, and man, I know you wanna hop in here real quick.
30:18
Like I wanna make sure that we always,
30:20
when we get the chance to differentiate, we need to.
30:22
There are churches that you could easily put
30:25
in the seeker sensitive category
30:27
that take discipleship seriously.
30:29
- For sure.
30:30
- And so it's like, yes, they got the rock concert,
30:32
they don't have the deepest theological expository preaching,
30:35
but as soon as they get you in the door,
30:36
they take the process of shepherding you very, very seriously.
30:40
And then there's those that don't at all.
30:41
Like they put you in the annual report
30:43
because you raise your hand and you know,
30:45
they get you to donate and they try to convince you
30:48
that if you know, you tithe for 90 days
30:50
and you don't see God bless you in that 90 day time period
30:52
that they'll give you your money back,
30:53
like your money back guarantee
30:55
at some sort of furniture shop,
30:56
there are those types of places.
30:58
But we're not saying that there is one way to do church
31:01
and that it fits for everybody
31:02
as you're a perfect example, Ryan.
31:04
Like you've really dove into the theological world,
31:09
but you could really trace back your start
31:12
of your Christian walk to the ministry of Craig Rochelle
31:14
that we're currently critiquing, right?
31:16
So I just wanna make sure we're being very, very clear
31:18
as to what we're saying that just because your church
31:20
has a large parking lot
31:22
and has a really nice speaker system
31:23
does not mean that they're not preaching a true gospel
31:25
and they're not discipling.
31:26
So I wanted to go there.
31:28
- Well, you said catechism
31:29
and I think a lot of people get antsy when they hear that word,
31:32
but I would say that our kids will be catechized
31:36
is not a choice we get to make.
31:38
They will be catechized.
31:39
Make no mistake.
31:41
We get to choose if it's by us
31:43
and how intentional we're gonna be with that.
31:47
And that's a conviction on my heart
31:49
just as it is a call to everybody else
31:51
to catechize their children.
31:53
But emotionalism is can be very sinister
31:58
in its attempt to shock people
32:02
into following what they think they should be doing.
32:06
And there is, there can be a manipulation.
32:09
And like Kyle's saying, like it's not all churches,
32:12
but we do need to be careful.
32:15
And like you said, Eric,
32:17
getting into the word is one of the most important things
32:20
you could do as a Christian.
32:22
And I've said this before and I'll say it again.
32:25
Nothing new is under the,
32:26
or there's nothing new under the sun.
32:28
I think we are in need of a reformation of sorts
32:32
where just as in the 1500s and prior,
32:37
the common man didn't have access to the word
32:41
because it was kept from them.
32:43
We now in modernity have a supercomputer
32:48
with thousands of versions of the Bible on it,
32:52
yet we don't have time or we don't want to read
32:56
because the guy in the pulpit is interpreting the word for us.
33:01
And that's a dangerous place to be.
33:04
- And think about William Tyndale
33:06
who was executed in England
33:09
and for translating the Bible for the common man.
33:13
I wanted to make one a quick point, but go on Ryan.
33:14
- I just want to, I kind of want to do a segue
33:16
in how this kind of the seeds among the rock
33:21
and then moving into the thorns.
33:22
There's a segue into that
33:23
that I'm seeing in the modern church today.
33:25
And so with the modern church today,
33:27
I heard a pastor kind of explained,
33:28
he goes, this is the modern church.
33:30
We're no longer the steep or the modern church
33:32
was the steeple in the cross.
33:34
And it's like, that's not the modern church anymore.
33:36
Modern church looks like a department store.
33:38
And we have these biblical messages that we're throwing out
33:41
and I'm talking specifically on seeker churches
33:44
of God is for you or God loves you, which is all true.
33:48
God is for you and God loves you.
33:50
Never take that away.
33:51
But when you're talking to a seeker,
33:53
a person who is seeking, when they hear God is for you,
33:56
they hear God is for me now, not God is for me to change
34:01
because they're no longer talking about change anymore.
34:03
They're talking about God is for you
34:04
because he wants to help you out of this hard situation.
34:07
God is for you because he wants to help you
34:08
through your financial situation.
34:10
God is for you because he wants, he knows you're stressed out.
34:13
And it's like, God's gonna be with you through that process,
34:16
but that's not God is for you.
34:17
God is for you to see who you are and why you need him
34:21
and that you need to change and become a Christian.
34:24
And so we're seeing that in the seeker movement
34:26
and now we're seeing people deconstruct
34:29
because this is the message that they hear
34:32
and they're sitting in these churches
34:33
and now these churches are becoming the thorns
34:35
around these bushes, giving them the wrong advice.
34:38
- Well, I think you're absolutely right.
34:40
That's such a good way of putting it.
34:41
But even more specifically, actually, you know what?
34:44
No, we'll just let that kind of lay on its own
34:46
'cause I think you laid it out there very perfectly
34:47
and how it relates to what Matt was just talking about.
34:49
You called it emotionalism, right?
34:51
The problem with that, and we're not talking
34:53
about every part of this parable,
34:55
but eventually we have to move on as well.
34:58
But it's the emotional manipulation that you just mentioned.
35:01
That's why I have a lot of problems with churches
35:04
that when they start their prayer at the end
35:06
or their altar call, they kind of, they bump the music up
35:09
and it's really dramatic and they're Oregon and the piano.
35:12
I know that everyone has their own particular style
35:14
and hey, that may just be my preference.
35:17
I feel like it's manipulative.
35:19
I feel like you're infusing emotion using music
35:24
which is a manipulative thing.
35:26
You're using that to try to create this feeling
35:30
inside of people as you're calling them to repentance
35:33
and calling them to Christ.
35:34
But also, I guess, again, that may just be preference,
35:37
but I want to go to the larger point
35:38
of the chasing of emotion.
35:40
So I remember talking to Tyler Glaze.
35:43
You know, he is and I'm sitting there
35:45
and so if you're listening to this shout out
35:46
to Tyler Glaze, he was one of the first guys
35:49
that kind of mentored me.
35:49
He was like a year or two older than me in college
35:52
and I really struggled with assurance of salvation
35:55
and I kind of got bogged down with that.
35:57
But I remember saying, man, when I got saved,
36:00
like it was like this big emotional thing
36:03
and then I remember being at like Falls Creek
36:05
which is like the big church camp thing
36:08
here in the state of Oklahoma
36:09
and it's like every night you're worshiping
36:12
and you're crying and you're rededicating your life
36:14
to the Lord and I can't wait till I get home and all that.
36:17
But now it's just Tuesday and I don't feel that same way
36:20
and he said something to me that was really profound.
36:22
He's like, why are you trying to just get that emotion again?
36:26
He's like, you're just chasing an emotion.
36:29
It's like your faith can't be based
36:30
on how you felt one time, it's just a cookie.
36:33
And that's the thing, that's this right here.
36:34
That's a parable of the sewer to where it's like,
36:36
you go watch, you know, you go to the passion conference
36:40
or you go to some Bethel concert
36:42
or you go something like that
36:43
and you're stirred up with emotion
36:46
but then you have nothing.
36:48
There's no basis for your faith.
36:49
There's no follow through.
36:50
It could be a starting point.
36:52
You know, Ryan, with what you're talking about
36:53
with the live church, maybe that's a spark.
36:55
But if it's just a spark and then little sparklets
36:58
from there on out, like, man, you're gonna burn up.
37:01
The sun's gonna get you.
37:02
- It's like marriage.
37:03
- It is. - It's like marriage
37:04
starts out, everybody's literally on the same page.
37:06
- Yeah.
37:07
Marriage starts out as a spark.
37:08
I mean, you're in your--
37:09
- Spark of attraction. - Spark of attraction.
37:11
You want to be with each other all the time
37:12
but as time goes on, you know, things start to change.
37:15
You start to change and it's being in it.
37:18
Being in it and just being there and just working through it.
37:21
It's work.
37:22
Your salvation is done by grace
37:24
but trying to follow Christ does have some work in that.
37:27
- Yeah, I mean, if you marry for charisma and looks,
37:30
good luck.
37:31
- 'Cause when she's 80, yeah.
37:34
- Oh, but that is a really fantastic point
37:37
because that doesn't mean, hey, wives,
37:39
stop taking care of yourself when you get married.
37:41
It doesn't mean, hey, husbands,
37:42
stop taking care of yourself once you get married.
37:44
But like, I remember this guy at this church conference
37:47
and I've talked about this before,
37:48
a marriage conference and he was like,
37:49
when people ask me what kind of women are you into,
37:51
I describe how my wife looks at that moment.
37:53
- Here is Gary Thomas.
37:54
- Okay, it was at your church whenever you actually did that.
37:56
- Is it the, if my perception of beauty is my wife,
38:01
like when she's 50, she'll still be beautiful
38:06
and like I won't have eyes for other women
38:07
because she is my definition of beauty.
38:10
Is that what he was saying?
38:11
- That's basically, I don't know that--
38:13
- It was the same guy I'm sure.
38:14
- No, no, no, but it's the same exact concept.
38:17
It may have not been, but it was at your church
38:19
when I went to this conference,
38:20
I don't think it was Gary Thomas that said it.
38:22
But the overall point being is if you base it off
38:25
that initial attraction when you're both 21 years old
38:28
and in really great shape and everything's perfect
38:31
and all that, at some point that fades away
38:35
and you have to understand what is there to this.
38:37
I remember Patrick Bette, David got a huge podcast.
38:40
He was, this was, I think he'd become a Christian
38:43
but then he was still like sleeping with his girlfriend
38:45
and then he suggested to his girlfriend,
38:47
"Hey, let's not have sex for a month."
38:51
And she was like, "Flamic."
38:52
She's like, "Why would we not do that?
38:53
The sex is great."
38:54
He's like, "Yeah, that's why I wanna not have sex for a month
38:56
'cause I wanna see is there anything here?
38:58
Like are we just really compatible sexually
39:01
or are we compatible relationally?"
39:03
And when you know it after 30 days,
39:05
it became very apparent that there one thing in common
39:07
was sex with each other
39:08
and they didn't continue the relationship from there.
39:11
But the same thing with this,
39:12
it's like I don't wanna be crude in my example
39:15
but it's like going to that church
39:17
where you get that very exciting singular experience
39:22
and you keep chasing the experience
39:23
without chasing the relationship
39:25
that is the basis for that experience.
39:27
Does that make sense?
39:28
- Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
39:29
And that's why worship pastors should be held
39:31
to a high, high standard.
39:33
- Amen.
39:33
- Your worship music should be theologically sound
39:35
because most people will sing their heresies
39:38
before they believe them.
39:39
- Yeah.
39:40
On Monday, they're not humming the sermon.
39:42
- That's right.
39:43
- They're humming that tune.
39:44
- Absolutely.
39:45
Man, okay, I'm gonna let you guys kinda decide.
39:48
We're like 40 minutes in
39:49
so we literally got about 20 minutes left
39:50
and we're just through the parable of the sower.
39:53
So this is what I'm gonna do,
39:55
a little bit of an executive decision here.
39:57
So let's look at the parable of the weeds
39:59
and the mustard seed and leaven together
40:02
because they kinda have a similar bend to them
40:06
but just so you don't have to read them all.
40:09
This is what we'll do.
40:10
Ryan, if you will read parable of the weeds 24 through 30
40:15
and then Matt, if you will read the mustard seed
40:17
and leaven right after that,
40:18
that's 31 through 35
40:20
and then we will talk about them together.
40:23
- He put another parable before them saying
40:25
the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man
40:27
who sowed good seed in his field.
40:30
But while his men were sleeping,
40:31
his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat
40:35
and went away.
40:36
So when the plants came up and bore again,
40:38
then the weeds appeared also
40:40
and the servants of the master of the house came and said,
40:43
master, did you not see,
40:46
did you not sow good seed in your field?
40:49
How then does it have weeds?
40:50
He said to them, an enemy has done this.
40:53
So the servants said to them, said to him,
40:55
"And do you want us to go and gather them?"
40:58
He said, "No."
40:59
Last thing gathering the weeds,
41:02
you root up the wheat along with them
41:06
that both grow together until the harvest.
41:08
And harvest time, I will tell the reapers,
41:10
gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles
41:12
to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.
41:15
- Now the mustard seed, 11 verse 31.
41:18
- He put another parable before them saying
41:21
the kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed
41:23
that a man took and sowed in his field.
41:25
It is the smallest of the seeds,
41:27
but when it has grown,
41:28
it is larger than all the garden plants
41:30
and becomes a tree so that birds of the air
41:32
come to make nests in its branches.
41:35
He told them another parable,
41:36
the kingdom of heaven is like leaven
41:38
that a woman took and hid in three measures of flower
41:43
till it was all leavened.
41:45
All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables.
41:48
Indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.
41:51
This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet.
41:53
I will open my mouth in parables.
41:55
I will utter what has been hidden
41:57
since the foundation of the world.
41:59
- Okay, so let's talk them on together.
42:02
Y'all get it.
42:03
So basically these two parables are kind of the same.
42:07
It's talking about the gradual growth of Christ kingdom.
42:11
So it's talking about bringing in the Gentiles
42:15
into that kingdom.
42:16
That's what I got from it.
42:20
- Yeah.
42:21
One of the interesting things that I looked up,
42:26
I was like, well, what is this stuff that's growing up
42:28
with the grain, with the, I assume it's wheat?
42:32
And there's actually a plant called darnell,
42:37
ryegrass, cockle.
42:39
It looks very, very similar to wheat
42:42
and it typically grows where wheat grows.
42:46
And yet it's poisonous.
42:48
It's interesting to me that there's actually something
42:51
like that.
42:52
- Well, I mean, verse 30, let both grow together.
42:56
I thought that was very interesting.
42:57
Like you're, it's not like, hey, have no regard
43:01
for the bad stuff that's growing,
43:04
but it's like there will be a separation.
43:06
- Okay.
43:07
- Well, this is Matthew three, right?
43:08
And this is what I go back to when John is talking about,
43:11
I'll baptize you with water for repentance,
43:14
but he was coming after me.
43:15
He might have, will baptize you with the Holy Spirit
43:17
and fire.
43:18
He says, his winnowing fork is in his hand.
43:20
He will clear that his threshing floor
43:21
and gather his wheat into the barn,
43:23
but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.
43:27
- Yeah.
43:27
What's interesting too is when we see if I can find it here
43:31
with the mustard speed, mustard seed,
43:33
says it's like a grain, mustard,
43:37
sewed in the field as small as it seeds.
43:39
When it's grown, larger than all the garden plants,
43:44
it becomes a tree so that the birds of the air
43:47
come and make nests in its branches.
43:49
I look at those birds as maybe evil,
43:54
coming to nest amongst the tree branches,
43:58
just like the darnell growing amongst the wheat.
44:03
- And I think MacArthur kind of pointed out,
44:06
I read this in this commentary.
44:07
It's like he's talking about the darnelles
44:10
being put in there or the wheat is being put in there
44:13
by his enemies.
44:15
And so that's like Satan trying to deceive the church,
44:17
trying to make the church decipher
44:19
from what is true and what is false.
44:22
And so I think we're kind of seeing that.
44:23
It's like, you don't want to call out somebody's salvation
44:25
and this kind of goes back to looking at the fruit.
44:28
But when you look at it, you want to be able to decipher
44:31
what is true teaching, what is correct teaching
44:33
and what is wrong teaching.
44:34
And I think those weeds are going to sprout up
44:37
even within the faithful.
44:39
- And I also put down on my sheet here
44:42
that I've got to prepare my kids
44:46
to know what the enemy believes
44:49
and to try to understand people around the ones
44:53
they can evangelize, do them too, so they can have
44:56
some logic to their arguments.
44:57
But three, so they're not caught off guard
45:00
when they find themselves around enemies or around evil.
45:04
I don't want them to live in a bubble, I guess is my point.
45:09
- But you want them to be able to discern
45:11
what is right and wrong.
45:12
So through their salvation or through their walk
45:15
and within the Christian church, they don't become
45:17
disenchanted with a false teacher.
45:21
'Cause I know many people who have like went to a church
45:24
and I was with them and we learned under this guy
45:28
and a lot of people left the church,
45:30
some people left the faith, you know?
45:31
And so it's like we never left the faith
45:33
because we found our calling through Christ.
45:36
I'm just wondering if those people were discipled enough,
45:39
they ended up becoming the seeds among the ground.
45:43
- That's good stuff there.
45:45
There's certainly a lot in those two things.
45:48
Again, I think I take solace in verse 30 there,
45:53
you know, let both grow together until the harvest.
45:55
And so I know some people, obviously,
45:58
I'm one of them whenever you see weeds pop up,
46:01
like maybe a gigantic weed,
46:02
like a pastor of a church or something like that
46:04
to where it's just like, wait a minute,
46:06
like this is a problem,
46:07
but there will be a separation of these groups.
46:10
And if you even go into the parable,
46:12
excuse me, the parable that weeds explained,
46:14
we see that in 36 through 43,
46:17
it talks about how the I can't see it right here,
46:21
but it was where the angels are basically going to be part
46:23
of that process of separating them out.
46:26
And so this will certainly be something
46:27
where the lawbreakers are going to be separated out
46:30
and he says in verse 42,
46:32
they will be put in the place where they'll be weeping
46:34
and gnashing of teeth.
46:36
Let's go and move on to the parable of the hidden treasure
46:39
and also the parable of the pearl of great value.
46:41
'Cause I think these obviously connect
46:42
and they're both very, very quick.
46:43
So Eric, if you can hit 44 through 46.
46:48
- The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field
46:52
which a man found and covered up.
46:54
Then in his joy, he goes and sells all that he has
46:58
and buys that field.
46:59
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant
47:03
in search of fine pearls who on finding one pearl
47:07
of great value went and sold all he had and bought it.
47:12
So of all the parables, they seem to be like
47:15
the easiest ones to understand.
47:17
It's like, okay, so salvation is hidden
47:20
but once found is supremely valuable
47:23
and it's worth everything.
47:24
Like, I don't want to be little these parables at all
47:27
but these of all of them are the easiest to understand it.
47:30
I mean, there's nothing here really to like sift through
47:33
to get the reasoning.
47:34
- Yeah, I was reminded of John 1513 says greater love
47:38
has no one than this to lay down his life or his friends.
47:40
And so that came to mind as I read those
47:44
about just Jesus giving us the ultimate sacrifice.
47:47
He was, he is the pearl, but he also loves us that much.
47:52
He's willing to go that far for our salvation.
47:56
- Yeah, I agree.
47:59
I mean, it is a call to leave and lose everything.
48:04
And I think reading the Puritans
48:09
is really beneficial in this.
48:12
And one of their great cries was all of life
48:17
to the glory of God.
48:18
There is nothing more important
48:22
than giving all of my life to Christ.
48:25
It's not Sundays, it's not Wednesdays, it's everything.
48:30
And yeah.
48:34
- I'm reminded of a rich young ruler.
48:36
- Yep.
48:37
- Of those treasures.
48:38
And I said, give it up, come follow me.
48:42
He didn't want to give up those treasures.
48:43
He didn't want to sell the field.
48:44
He said, deuces.
48:45
He didn't want to give up everything for the pearl.
48:47
He said, he wanted to sit where he was at.
48:50
So it's kind of a sad situation, but it's true.
48:52
- I think what these parables also hit is to where, okay,
48:55
these are of great value.
48:57
So, you know, he was going to sell all he had
48:59
to go and buy the field, okay?
49:01
He was going to sell what he had to go buy this pearl.
49:05
Whenever you make a declaration for Christ
49:07
and put your faith in him, what you're doing is you're saying,
49:10
I am sacrificing every last bit of my life.
49:13
And so there aren't secret places anymore.
49:16
Your finances aren't not that they were secret
49:18
to begin with as if God couldn't see what you were doing,
49:21
but God is going to require everything of you.
49:24
Whether that be your time, your family, your health,
49:28
your money, your attention, your direction, everything.
49:32
And so it's easy to kind of read through those
49:34
and think, you know, it just kind of is what it is.
49:36
Yeah, it's of great value.
49:37
No, no, no, it's of all consuming value.
49:41
Like this isn't a Lamborghini.
49:42
This isn't a mansion.
49:43
This isn't, you know, going on a cruise for a year.
49:46
This is something that is so valuable
49:48
that it is essentially impossible for you to attain it
49:51
without understanding that I have to give all.
49:54
'Cause that's what it says.
49:55
The word all is used in both of these to where it's like,
49:57
hey, I didn't have to sell most of my stuff.
50:00
Like, in order to get this thing,
50:01
it was like, I require all of it.
50:03
It's just a great reminder for us.
50:05
Let's do real quick, let's hit the parable of the net.
50:09
Matt, if you could hit parable of the net,
50:12
that's 47 through 50.
50:14
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net
50:16
that was thrown into the sea
50:18
and gathered fish of every kind.
50:20
When it was full, men drew it ashore
50:22
and sat down and sorted the good into containers,
50:24
but threw away the bad.
50:26
So it will be at the end of the age.
50:28
The angels will come out
50:29
and separate the evil from the righteous
50:31
and throw them into the fiery furnace.
50:33
In that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
50:37
- Somebody want to call Andy Stanley
50:38
and let him know that Jesus just drew a line
50:41
right here and not a circle.
50:43
- Lines and circles, that guy.
50:45
Every time he opens his mouth,
50:47
he seems to be drawing lines that look like circles, I guess.
50:51
- I think a lot of these parables can give us solace
50:54
and in the fact that,
50:56
I mean, I think Paul in his second letter to Timothy
50:59
doesn't he say that those false teachers will be successful
51:03
and the industries will grow?
51:04
- Yeah, we talked about that.
51:05
- Yeah.
51:06
So we can take solace in the fact that
51:11
there will be a reckoning, there will be a harvest,
51:13
there will be a separation,
51:16
and it's not our job to do that.
51:18
I think it's our job to call people away
51:20
from those types of people.
51:21
- Yeah, because that's sad there, but it's tragic.
51:24
- Yeah, it's like, okay,
51:26
this guy wants to go ruin his life,
51:27
but why does he need to drag these thousands and thousands
51:30
and thousands of people down the road with him?
51:32
- They are deceiving and being deceived.
51:34
I look at that parable and the end of the age will be sorted.
51:36
Redeemed and the unredeemed,
51:38
the repentant and the unrepentant.
51:40
And that's what it is.
51:41
That's the line that's drawn.
51:43
It's not some big circle.
51:44
'Cause even when you're in a circle,
51:45
you can be outside the circle, you know?
51:48
And so the line's been drawn.
51:50
You're either gonna repent or you're gonna be unrepenting.
51:52
- And he said it earlier a few chapters ago.
51:55
- And the new adult treasure.
51:57
- If you're not with me against me.
52:00
- Well, new and old treasure kind of goes after Andy as well.
52:03
So, can I read that one?
52:04
- Go for it.
52:05
- Yeah.
52:06
- So have you understood all these things?
52:08
They said to him, yes.
52:10
And he said to them,
52:10
"Therefore every scribe who has been trained
52:12
for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of the house.
52:16
Who brings out his treasure?
52:18
What is new and what is old?"
52:20
So basically we're talking about, you know,
52:22
Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament.
52:24
You know, he is the New Testament,
52:26
but he's not throwing out the old to bring in the new.
52:28
He wants you to see and understand the insights
52:32
of how the New Testament brings out the Old Testament.
52:35
So he's not unheaching from the Old Testament.
52:39
So he wants you to see why the Old Testament is beautiful
52:44
into what he's bringing in with the New Testament
52:47
and what he's fulfilling in that.
52:49
So he tells that in a parable,
52:51
which I don't think some people understand that one,
52:53
they ain't saying any names, so, but yeah.
52:56
- You act like this isn't the saying names.
52:58
- Have you already said a name?
53:01
- Yeah, I'm not saying any names right now.
53:02
I mean, I may have just recently.
53:04
- I'm saying names, Andy Stanley.
53:07
- There he is, so.
53:08
Well, hey, let's hit this last section
53:09
before we close out Matthew 13.
53:11
So Eric, if you would do Jesus rejected at Nazareth,
53:16
that is verses 53 through the end, which is 58.
53:20
- Yeah. - And when Jesus had finished these parables,
53:23
he went away from there and coming to his hometown,
53:26
he taught them in their synagogue,
53:29
so that they were astonished and said,
53:30
where did this man get this wisdom?
53:32
And these mighty works.
53:34
Is not this, the carpenter's son?
53:37
Is not his mother called Mary?
53:40
And are not his brothers, James and Joseph and Simon
53:45
and Judas and are not all his sisters with us?
53:50
Where then did this man get all of these things?
53:53
And they took offense at him, but Jesus said to them,
53:56
a prophet is not without honor,
53:57
except in his hometown and his own household.
54:01
And he did not do many mighty works there
54:03
because of their unbelief.
54:06
- So you wanna talk about a spirited diminishment.
54:09
Typically, I use that in the context
54:11
of when people doubt themselves, right?
54:13
So they will speak and like, oh, I can never do that.
54:15
And I'm never gonna accomplish.
54:16
That's a spirited diminishment.
54:17
But they are speaking on to Jesus,
54:19
on to Jesus, his entire ministry,
54:20
the entire movement, this spirit of diminishment,
54:22
where this is a derivation or a derivative
54:25
of when the guy's like, what good could come from Nazareth?
54:29
Because it was, and this just shows you,
54:31
there was nothing special about Jesus.
54:33
He wasn't an attractive man.
54:35
He wasn't from a well-to-do powerful family.
54:38
He didn't have a cool job.
54:40
Like, so he didn't check any of the worldly boxes
54:43
of somebody that could have an incendiary impact
54:45
on humanity, right?
54:47
And they explicitly put that in here.
54:49
But focusing even in on the very, very last verse.
54:52
And he did not do many mighty works there
54:54
because of their unbelief.
54:55
It's like, hey, no faith, no miracles, right?
54:58
So that was basically what it is.
55:00
It's like, we're not even going to try,
55:02
but I thought it was also very interesting.
55:04
One of the commentaries I read, I can't remember which one.
55:06
They're like, the people of his hometown
55:09
probably didn't even bring anyone to him
55:12
to try to get them healed.
55:15
So it wasn't just, yeah, we don't think you can do this.
55:17
It's like, we're not even going to test you in this.
55:20
That's how clear we are in the fact.
55:23
And I thought about that.
55:24
I was like, man, I kind of thought about my hometown
55:26
of lot in Oklahoma.
55:27
And like, what would I have to do
55:28
to be rejected in my hometown?
55:30
Part of it is if you live in kind of a smaller town,
55:33
like what this town would have been like in that time period,
55:35
everybody knew everybody.
55:37
I'm sure Joseph did some bad things in his life
55:39
that everybody in the village or town knew about.
55:42
Same thing with Mary.
55:44
Sorry Catholics, but Mary wasn't a perfect person.
55:46
And it's like, there are going to be those moments where,
55:49
you mean the Joseph's family?
55:52
Like, his kids kind of suck that Jesus kid.
55:54
He's kind of cool.
55:55
But like, man, these other kids are just kind of unruly
55:57
or maybe it's kind of hard to deal with them
55:59
or something like that.
56:00
And so you're able to diminish these people
56:02
before they do anything.
56:03
And it's kind of tall poppy syndrome
56:05
where it's like, hey, your head's kind of popping up
56:07
above the rest of us here.
56:09
So we need to kind of cut you back down to size.
56:11
It's kind of what this feels like.
56:12
- Oh, I think that's exactly right.
56:14
- Every commentary I read said familiarity breeds contempt.
56:19
So they're already familiar with him.
56:23
They're already familiar with the family, like you were saying.
56:25
So they already have contempt.
56:27
I think another thing that you bring up too
56:29
is that he wasn't rich.
56:30
He wasn't beautiful.
56:31
He didn't have the greatest job, you know?
56:33
But also, you know, at that time,
56:35
the Pharisees and Sadducees were like super rich.
56:37
They came from rich families,
56:38
then they thought that was God's blessing.
56:40
So when you've got this guy who's preaching the word
56:44
and he comes from a carpenter, you know,
56:48
they're already like that, I want to go off.
56:50
- Same thing happened to Joseph when he had his dream.
56:55
Another, again, another dress rehearsal for Christ.
56:59
He was rejected by his brother to the point
57:00
that they sold him in his slavery.
57:02
So like, this is not a new thing.
57:06
And it's interesting, again, I'll still say this.
57:08
I think I say this a lot.
57:09
All of history bends to God's will.
57:11
And he uses these things over and over.
57:14
And this is a story he is consistently telling.
57:18
And it is interesting, though,
57:19
the family or the town that is kind of like,
57:24
"You got it too big for your britches, huh?"
57:27
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:28
- Let us bring you down a notch or two.
57:31
- It's what the Jews did to him.
57:33
- I mean, they crucified their own.
57:34
He was a Jew, you know?
57:36
And so it just breathed contempt.
57:39
So they had a lot of kids.
57:41
- They did.
57:41
- They had some sisters.
57:42
- Wait a minute.
57:43
So you're telling me that Mary and Joseph
57:45
actually consummated their relationship
57:48
and had more children?
57:49
- It would appear to be that way.
57:51
- What's funny is whenever you look at Catholic
57:53
or Orthodox folks, they will literally wind themselves
57:57
into knots and be like, well, maybe Joseph was previously
57:59
married and these were kids from like a previous marriage
58:02
and like others kind of, it's like, wait, what?
58:04
You're saying something that sounds plausible,
58:07
except for the fact that there is no evidentiary basis for it.
58:10
What in the world are you saying?
58:11
- The lady had sex after Jesus was born.
58:14
- Yeah, I don't understand how that's,
58:15
she was in a marriage, a married Jewish woman.
58:19
- Yeah.
58:20
- Like let's have kids.
58:21
- Yeah, she wants to have kids.
58:22
I mean, it's biblical to what I have kids.
58:24
- They were committed to have kids.
58:25
- Yeah.
58:26
- And they were married.
58:27
So they were doing it in the right way
58:28
to how God intended it.
58:29
- Eric, you are furiously flipping through the Bible right now.
58:31
Are you trying to find a bone to throw
58:34
to the Orthodox or Catholic folks?
58:35
- Oh, no, no, no. - I'm just interested to see
58:37
how they deal with this with scripture like this.
58:40
Like how do they, I mean, and I don't know,
58:42
I'm genuinely asking, how do they interpret this scripture
58:45
that says, I mean, I understand what you're saying.
58:48
Like there are some that would say,
58:50
oh, it's from a previous marriage,
58:51
but like to your point, I think, yeah.
58:55
Maybe last I was sort of the episode before,
58:57
like he couldn't have been called the son of David
59:01
if he wasn't the firstborn child.
59:03
- Yeah, he wouldn't inherit that kingdom.
59:05
It was always the firstborn.
59:06
So.
59:08
- Oh, really?
59:09
- Oh, nothing.
59:10
I was looking at the word offense
59:11
and they took offense at him.
59:12
You know, I was reading back two episodes ago, I believe,
59:17
what we were talking about, John the Baptist.
59:20
And he says, blessed is the one that does not take offense
59:24
at me, and here they are taking offense.
59:27
That was it.
59:28
- Okay, very good.
59:29
Well, there's certainly more that we could talk about
59:30
in Matthew 13, but we're gonna leave it there for now,
59:33
but come back here next Sunday,
59:34
where we will dig into Matthew 14.
59:36
So make sure you're read through there.
59:37
So you're ready to go.
59:39
But before we let you go,
59:39
we are gonna do a quick resilience boost.
59:41
Add on Dawn to life.
59:42
Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness
59:44
with content that forages, spiritual,
59:45
mental and physical resilience.
59:47
Just a reminder, cross way has hooked us up
59:49
with a way for you to start your own forging table,
59:51
with their forging table starter set.
59:53
All of the instructions for how you can do that
59:54
are here on the show notes.
59:56
But also we've got a link to our donation page, guys.
59:57
If you like the forging table, if you like the podcast,
1:00:00
if you like anything that we've ever done,
1:00:01
we're able to do those things because we have donors.
1:00:03
Everything that we do costs money.
1:00:05
That's just the way the world is.
1:00:06
So if you want us to keep putting out content
1:00:08
that equips men to push back darkness,
1:00:09
hop on board.
1:00:10
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
1:00:12
Wherever you're listening to this,
1:00:13
please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star
1:00:16
review.
1:00:17
If you want to come speak live at your event
1:00:18
or on your podcast,
1:00:19
just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life.
1:00:22
That's i-n-f-o @undonton.life.
1:00:25
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
1:00:27
and check out our website for everything else,
1:00:28
including how to donate to keep more content
1:00:30
like this coming your way.
1:00:31
Just go to www.undonton.life
1:00:34
and also we want to thank the band Holy Name
1:00:36
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:00:38
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
1:00:41
which is off their self-titled debut album
1:00:43
on Face Down Records.
1:00:44
The links are in the description.
1:00:46
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:00:48
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
1:00:50
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience,
1:00:54
keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:00:56
(upbeat music)
1:01:01
(upbeat music)
1:01:04
You focus on your physical and mental health,
1:01:15
but when's the last time you checked in
1:01:17
on your financial health?
1:01:19
Many Americans feel financially anxious,
1:01:21
yet many are doing better than they think.
1:01:23
At Fairwind's Credit Union,
1:01:25
we give you a clear snapshot of your finances
1:01:27
and a plan to move forward with confidence.
1:01:30
With high-yield savings and free checking,
1:01:32
we help your money work harder.
1:01:34
Visit fairwinds.org for more information
1:01:37
federally insured by NCUA.