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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | Matthew 10 (Ep. 531)

November 26, 2023 1h 4m Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | Matthew 10 (Ep. 531)
0:00 / 1h 4m
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive deep into Matthew 10, exploring the calling of the apostles and the harsh realities of discipleship. Jesus didn't come to bring peace but a sword, challenging us to prioritize our faith above all else, even family.
Transcript
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1:19 This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:25 Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that's
1:30 -- that wasn't part of it.
1:38 I messed up.
1:40 You know what?
1:41 There's been several times where we are all joking right before I hit my intro and I've
1:44 thought about putting it in there.
1:45 But anyway, it would affect the final thing, so everybody shut up so I can talk out loud.
1:49 Here we go.
1:51 Welcome back to the forging table.
1:53 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:56 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:59 At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
2:02 by digging into God's Word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
2:06 with us.
2:07 That's Matt.
2:08 That's Zach.
2:09 That's Eric.
2:10 Hey, I did y'all out of order this time.
2:11 Got to keep you on your toes.
2:12 Here we go, guys.
2:13 So we ended up Matthew 9, where Jesus is basically talking about how the laborers are few.
2:17 And then we get into Matthew 10 and we're right on top of really learning who are going
2:22 to be the people in Jesus' inner circle, right?
2:25 So he's got his disciples and he's calling his 12 apostles here.
2:28 So Matt, if you would, let's read Matthew 10 verses one through four, please.
2:33 Sure.
2:34 And he called to him his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast
2:38 them out and to heal every disease and every affliction.
2:42 The names of the 12 apostles are these first Simon, who is called Peter and Andrew, his
2:47 brother, James, the son of Zebedee and John, his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas
2:53 and Matthew, the tax collector, James, the son of Alpheus and Thaddeus, Simon, the zealot
3:00 and Judas, the scariest who betrayed him.
3:02 You pronounce them all correctly.
3:03 No, sorry, Joby's here, but there's a few things here to point out before we all pick
3:07 our favorite disciples.
3:08 So get ready.
3:09 So apparently there's a difference between, I had never knew what the difference was
3:11 between disciple and apostle, right?
3:13 I saw the apostles were the super cool ones and the disciples were just everybody else,
3:17 but apparently disciple means students and apostles means those that were sent on a mission.
3:22 And so these specifically, it's more apt to call the 12 apostles than disciples, even
3:27 though it's interchangeable, though those two titles, I saw you non your head, Zach.
3:31 When I was talking about that, did you see something about the difference between disciples
3:34 and apostles?
3:35 It struck me too.
3:36 I just, I read this.
3:37 It says a person had to meet certain qualifications to be an apostle of Jesus Christ.
3:41 He must have seen the risen Christ and fellowshiped with him.
3:45 He had to be chosen by the Lord.
3:47 The apostles laid the foundation of the church and then passed from the scene while all believers
3:52 are sent forth to represent the king.
3:54 No believer today can honestly claim to be an apostle for none of us have seen the risen
3:58 Christ.
3:59 Okay.
4:00 Was Paul apostle?
4:01 He.
4:02 Paul the apostle.
4:03 Yeah, he was, but he was called directly by Jesus and he speaks to that in some of his
4:08 letters that he was called by Jesus, so he was an apostle.
4:12 I think that that's a great point that you made because there is a subsection of churches
4:18 who believe that they are apostles and there's this NAR, the new, the new apostle can't remember
4:26 the R stands for, but they believe that they are in the line of the apostles and they get
4:33 into some pretty interesting things, but yeah, I think that's a good point.
4:36 It seems similar to when people say they're in the line of Peter and they're the Pope and
4:41 you know, I've talked with like Catholic friends.
4:42 Hypothetically.
4:43 Yeah, it's like, so none of the popes have been accidents, none of them, like they've
4:46 all been exactly the ones I was supposed to be chosen.
4:48 Can you break?
4:49 Interesting.
4:50 Yeah.
4:51 What is it?
4:52 So Peter was the first Pope, right?
4:53 According to them.
4:54 And he was married, wasn't he not?
4:55 He was.
4:56 Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
4:57 Believe me.
4:58 I brought that up.
4:59 Interesting.
5:00 Like, wait a minute.
5:01 Yeah, jerks.
5:02 It's like Peter can have a wife.
5:03 What's wrong with you guys?
5:04 Well, make sure.
5:05 Yeah, there's some questions for sure.
5:06 This isn't the anti-Catholic podcast.
5:08 This is the anti-Andy Stanley podcast, okay?
5:10 So, but I did want to point one thing out, I forgot who wrote this down and so I want
5:14 to give them credit, but I forgot to write it down.
5:16 This never occurred to me.
5:17 So Simon the zealot, he would have been for the complete overthrow of Rome, like he would
5:23 have trained for overthrowing, overthrowing Rome and then you have Matthew who worked
5:28 for Rome and here they are on this same team.
5:30 I can't think of like, this would have been like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, joining the
5:35 Milwaukee Bucks or something like that, like back in the day for all your old school basketball
5:38 fans.
5:39 This would have been just so completely unheard of that these two men would be on the same
5:42 team, but it's like Jesus is going to call who he calls.
5:45 So does anybody want to have a favorite?
5:47 You want to have like a favorite of these 12 and don't be one of those weirdos like,
5:50 oh, Bartholomew's my favorite.
5:51 No one even knows what he did.
5:53 He's not even a real person.
5:54 He was just named here and then we get nothing else about Bartholomew.
5:57 So do we have favorites?
5:59 Fellows.
6:00 Nobody wants to be the first one to say they got a favorite?
6:03 Yeah.
6:04 Peter, probably for me, James, very practical.
6:08 Peter was just, he was entertaining because he just said whatever is on his mind.
6:15 And oftentimes got himself trouble, but God transformed him into rock for the truth.
6:21 So I guess one more thing just to add this.
6:23 I know you hear the questions today, like, how come nobody's performing miracles like
6:27 this?
6:28 And why don't we see what we saw back then?
6:29 I guess the other thing this would just point out is that the apostles were given special
6:33 power and authority from Christ to perform these miracles at the time.
6:38 And then like he mentions later that then they passed from the scene and then you have
6:41 disciples effectively from that point forward.
6:44 Yeah.
6:45 And isn't it interesting that Judas would have been one that could have done miracles.
6:49 Yep.
6:50 Right?
6:51 And like we did, he was given authority right there.
6:53 Yeah.
6:54 Well, Fellows, do you all have favorites?
6:55 Matthew, I guess would be the clear one for me because that's my name.
7:00 Yeah, that helps.
7:01 Yeah.
7:02 I don't know.
7:03 I don't know.
7:04 I don't know.
7:05 I don't know.
7:06 I don't know.
7:07 I think just because of what I've been consuming recently, James really stands out for a whole
7:10 bunch of reasons.
7:11 But James, son of Zebedee, or James, son of Alpheus.
7:15 I don't know.
7:16 I don't know.
7:17 I don't know.
7:18 I don't know.
7:19 I don't know.
7:20 I don't know.
7:21 I don't know.
7:22 I don't know.
7:23 I don't know.
7:24 I don't know.
7:25 I think just because of what I've been consuming recently, James really stands out for a whole
7:28 bunch of reasons.
7:29 Yeah, James, son of Zebedee, or James, son of Alpheus.
7:33 Zebedee?
7:34 Okay.
7:35 I'm pretty sure that's what you were talking about.
7:38 I'll just kind of round out like Peter.
7:40 Thanks.
7:41 Peter would be the one for me as well because like when people say like, hey, if, you
7:45 know, who in the Bible would you want to like sit down and, you know, talk to if you
7:48 could like understand the language and it can't be Jesus, I always say Peter.
7:51 But then I'm like, that would be a disastrous meeting because we're so much alike.
7:54 We would hate each other.
7:55 Like, yeah, we would just like basically fight the entire time, so that would not be birds
8:00 of a feather type of situation.
8:01 So I'm worried since I'm going out of order, Zach, how about you read versus five through
8:06 15?
8:07 Actually, wait, pause.
8:08 I forgot to talk about the stack of books that are here on the table today.
8:11 So guys, if you were haven't been listening the last several weeks, we keep getting asked
8:15 by people, Hey, I want to start my own forging table, but I don't exactly know what to do.
8:19 And I typically just say, Hey, open up the Bible and start, start there.
8:22 But I decided to partner with Crossway, they are fantastic publisher.
8:25 And this is not a commercial.
8:26 This is not something we're getting paid to talk about.
8:28 We just wanted to put something together with you guys are for you guys to use if you're
8:33 starting a forging table.
8:34 And so I, you know, got the guys here to kind of think through and we worked with Crossway
8:38 and we came up with five books that make up the forging table starter set.
8:41 So these five books, if you buy them off the Crossway website, and I'll tell you how
8:45 to do that here in a second, you can get all five of those books and then get half off
8:48 of the entire set, you literally cannot get that set for that price anywhere else on the
8:53 Internet.
8:54 So the set includes the brand new ESV men's study Bible.
8:57 So that is a men's focused Bible, but it does have a lot of the notes from the ESV study
9:02 Bible.
9:03 That's their most purchased study Bible that they've sold.
9:06 Also, we have the book of Romans, a scripture journal study edition.
9:10 So it's just like these journals.
9:11 I just got a DM, you know, before this one started where someone's like, thank you so
9:14 much for mentioning the, the ESV journals through Crossway, because I use them in my
9:18 church now, it's those journals, but it has the ESV study Bible references on the bottom
9:25 of the pages.
9:26 So it's absolutely fantastic.
9:28 Then we have a new morning mercies by Paul David trip.
9:31 That is a devotional.
9:32 So that's for guys that don't really know, Hey, what devotional should I do?
9:35 That's a great one.
9:36 Doug O'Donnell has a book in there called the beauty and power of biblical exposition.
9:40 That'll give you kind of an intellectual dive into the different types of writings that
9:43 are in the Bible.
9:44 So it'll kind of help you as you're reading.
9:46 And then we rounded out with family shepherds by Vodie Bockam.
9:48 So that is a tremendous book for men that are wanting to be a shepherd for their family
9:53 to catechize their kids, to perform headship over their household.
9:56 That kind of gives you that.
9:57 So all five of those together make up the forging table starter set.
10:00 It's just a three step process.
10:02 It's here in the show notes.
10:03 You need to go to crossway.org and you set up a brand new free crossway plus account.
10:09 Step two, you need to put all these books in your cart and then at checkout.
10:12 This is the final step you need to put in this promo code B S S P five zero to get 50% off
10:18 of that.
10:19 That is Bravo Sierra Sierra pop up five zero and you'll get 50% off that set guys.
10:23 If you're driving or working out right now, don't worry.
10:25 All that will be in the show notes.
10:27 You should definitely check that out now, Zach.
10:29 If you wouldn't mind reading versus five through 15, please.
10:33 These 12 Jesus sent out instructing them go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town
10:39 of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and for claim
10:43 as you go, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
10:47 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons.
10:52 You received without paying, give without pay, acquire no gold or silver or copper for your
10:58 belts, no bag for your journey or to tunics or sandals or a staff for the labor deserves
11:04 his food and whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it.
11:09 Let's stay there and tell you to part as you enter the house, greet, greet it.
11:14 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it.
11:16 But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
11:20 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your
11:24 feet when you leave that house or town.
11:27 Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom
11:32 and Gomorrah than for that town.
11:34 We're going to get back to that, but I do want to go back to something that you talked
11:37 about earlier in this section, which where he's talking about, you know, give without
11:41 pay, don't acquire any gold or silver, like, you know, don't take extra stuff.
11:46 This is a big time test because these are people that knew how to be nomadic.
11:51 They knew how to travel and they knew what they needed in order to travel.
11:54 So imagine you're going on a business trip and someone's like, Hey, don't, don't bring
11:58 any extras.
11:59 Like, don't, don't take anything with you.
12:01 Just depend and rely on the people once you get there, but it's not just, Hey, rely on
12:05 the people once you get there.
12:08 It's like, Hey, I got you.
12:09 Okay.
12:10 You're doing my work.
12:11 I've given you these, these powers.
12:12 I've given you this authority.
12:13 Like, just trust me.
12:14 And so it doesn't say that they didn't do that.
12:16 So I would assume that if they didn't do that, and there was some sort of a parable or lesson
12:20 that that would have, that would have happened here.
12:22 But I think that that's an interesting thing to think about like, Hey man, go on ministry.
12:25 Don't worry about, you know, storing up stuff for yourself.
12:28 You're out here to do my work.
12:29 Yeah.
12:30 There's an incense either, I would assume before this where they did do that.
12:36 And so this was kind of the flip of that of Jesus saying you need to rely on me, rely
12:41 on God more in this situation.
12:44 I think it's also a call to us and how we should be in fellowship together.
12:53 And you know, there's a model for the church there, the early church, they did life together.
12:59 And you helped those who needed help, you gave to those who needed it.
13:03 And so there was this strong sense of community, which in some ways, I think we've kind of
13:09 lost sight of in our modern world.
13:12 I mean, everybody, certainly in our circles can provide for themselves, but there is this
13:16 real sense of, and that guy needs something, just going to give it to him.
13:21 I'm going to give it to him freely.
13:22 Yeah.
13:23 This is like the, the first nonprofit ministry right now.
13:26 I remember when we were in, I was on a mission trip in Eastern Europe when I was in college.
13:33 And our last stop was in the Ukraine.
13:37 And we went and ministered to folks in the streets and the town square, and then also
13:44 in hospitals.
13:45 And I remember having a really interesting experience in the hospital, I had been praying
13:50 that I would see some fruit from being on that mission trip and talking to folks and
13:57 whatnot, it was kind of probably a little bit selfish.
13:59 But nonetheless, I just was like, I'd love to see someone like respond to the gospel.
14:04 And we were in a hospital room where there were two gentlemen, both of them were terminally
14:08 ill.
14:09 I don't know what they had, but apparently the people thought we were okay being in the
14:12 same room as them.
14:14 So we were in there ministering to them, and I went and spoke with a gentleman who was
14:17 looking out the window, did not want to look at us, and I just talked to him about Jesus.
14:22 And he listened, had a couple of questions, but ultimately kind of was like, and I'm not
14:28 really into this kind of thing.
14:30 Well, at that same moment on the other side of the room behind a curtain, the gentleman
14:34 started calling out and the interpreter said, Hey, this gentleman wants to talk to you.
14:41 And so went over and spoke with him and talked to him, told him about Jesus and the gospel
14:46 and shared it with him, and he accepted Christ right then and there, which was amazing.
14:52 And then wanted to pay me for that time that we had had.
14:57 And I remember being taken back, but it was just like, No, no, no, no, this is not how
15:02 that works.
15:03 This is a free gift.
15:05 But that, I mean, that's kind of the same issue, you know, they're not going in there
15:09 to try to make money spreading the good news of the gospel to people.
15:15 So people see it certainly that guided in that moment as something extremely valuable.
15:20 You were paid for your work.
15:22 Your labor was worth something.
15:24 So to get your day's wage was, I mean, you worked for that and you got that.
15:30 And to tell them to don't take that now, probably puzzling, but like, I work and I get paid.
15:38 And then to me, I go, I kind of think of the wages of sin is death.
15:46 And Jesus says you received without pay, well, you mean, you didn't pay for my healing you,
15:53 but you're also not getting what you actually deserve because rightfully your wage should
16:00 be death and I have brought you the ultimate salvation.
16:04 So therefore, as I've done for you, go do likewise for other people.
16:09 That's kind of, I know I'm reading in there too, but like that that that is what comes
16:13 to mind there.
16:14 Well, the other thing is I've, I'm pretty sure I've seen the scripture use against people
16:18 that do ministry to be like, yeah, you're not supposed to be paid like to do this.
16:22 And that's that's come up for us before because I charge when I go and speak places, you know,
16:26 we charge that people advertise on our show or something like that unless we've worked
16:30 out some sort of other deal and people get kind of, you know, they get their hackles
16:34 up on that.
16:35 And it's just like, do you get paid for your time, talent and money?
16:38 Do you trade or do you trade your time and talent for money?
16:40 Is that something that you do?
16:41 And it's like, why are you getting on pastors?
16:43 So like when pastors have like business outside of what they do inside the ministry, whether
16:47 it's selling books or speaking and stuff like that, it's like, what's the big deal?
16:51 It's like, yeah, if they create an idol, it's the same as if you were to create an idol out
16:54 of your side hustle or something like that.
16:56 So we've seen that use a different way.
16:58 I did want to talk about verses 14 and 15, you know, this is where, you know, if these,
17:04 these towns don't receive you or listen to your words, you know, shake off the dust from
17:06 your feet.
17:07 That was commonly done by Jews when they would leave Gentile territory, just kind of like,
17:11 ah, you know, almost like a, hey, we're just going to shake the dust off and like, you
17:14 know, show or discuss for this.
17:16 But truly I say to you, it will be more bearable on that day of judgment for the land of Sodom
17:20 and Gomorrah than for that town.
17:23 And it's just like, whoa, whoa, like if you're reading this too fast, it's like, you know,
17:28 wait a minute.
17:29 That is a brutal promise.
17:31 Jesus said that.
17:32 Yeah.
17:33 And here's the thing.
17:34 So, you know, unlike some prominent pastors that think that the Bible only whispers on
17:38 things like sexual immorality, I'm pretty sure is loud when Sodom and Gomorrah was reduced
17:43 to rubble.
17:44 So, you know, shout out to JD Greer.
17:46 You might want to read that, that section of your Bible again.
17:48 But that's the thing that's very interesting about this is like, I guess we don't, we don't,
17:53 we don't compare.
17:54 If you were to compare what the people in Sodom and Gomorrah would do, we're doing before
17:57 they were destroyed.
17:59 And you look at like, oh yeah, these people just like reject you from their town.
18:02 It doesn't seem right that that town would receive a worse sentence than Sodom and Gomorrah.
18:07 But Jesus is like, no, if they reject you, like, we're not going to forget, we're going
18:12 to reduce that place of rubble and it's going to be worse than when we wiped two cities off
18:15 the face of the planet.
18:16 Do you think, do you think there are different degrees of torment in hell based on your rejection
18:23 on earth?
18:24 So, what's interesting about that is, if you read Dante's Inferno, that's exactly what
18:28 you see.
18:29 This is a fiction book, but they talk about the different levels of hell.
18:32 And if you've seen any pictures depicting kind of the different levels of hell, and I'm pretty
18:36 sure in the final level of hell, I'm trying to remember, because it's been a long time
18:41 since I read it.
18:42 But like Judas is in one of the devil's hands or one of Satan's hands and is it Hitler in
18:47 the other?
18:48 No.
18:49 In Dante's, it's the Pope.
18:50 It's the current pope, it's his current pope at the time.
18:54 Francis, that makes sense.
18:55 But it's just like, you know, those are the last two people, they are in the worst part
18:59 of the torment.
19:01 I don't know if we get that from scripture though, like I don't know if we get like
19:03 levels of hell or something like that.
19:05 I think there's probably some apocryphal writings he's taken that from, but I would
19:09 agree.
19:10 I don't think we get that from scripture either, but that's an interesting concept to think
19:14 about.
19:15 I don't want to find out, of course not, you saw it in the war, it gets rained, hellfire
19:20 and brimstone.
19:21 I mean, it's kind of over, like how can it be worse than that unless it's happening afterwards
19:25 for eternity?
19:26 I don't know.
19:27 It's just a thought.
19:28 It's like there are degrees of rewards, right?
19:32 So logically, if it's balanced, maybe there's degrees of hellish rewards or punishments.
19:40 You know, it seems also, I guess that they say it was made for, for demons and everything
19:44 as far as, you know, how they're sent there and all that.
19:49 I don't know.
19:50 I think I personally think that probably would be my best guess, but they say it's the absence
19:55 of God.
19:56 So that's the absence of light and love and all those things that doesn't say that there's
19:59 degrees of absence of God.
20:01 So maybe not going to be like bad, bad if it's already bad.
20:05 Right.
20:06 Well, the same thing true.
20:07 I wonder if that's a human thing that we're putting on to the Bible being like, I really
20:12 hope Hitler's just getting, you know, raped with a lava deck forever or something like
20:17 sorry, Matt.
20:18 I'm sorry.
20:19 Was that too bad?
20:20 Well, one, that's, that's semantically inaccurate because it's a, it's a pineapple in the movie
20:27 that you're referring to.
20:28 Sorry.
20:29 Well, you know, I'm just saying like we want things to be way worse than just for what you
20:32 call it.
20:33 Beliviating or something.
20:34 Beliviating.
20:35 Beliviating.
20:36 It's what they do.
20:37 What is it?
20:38 Where's Bolivia?
20:39 South America, Central America.
20:40 Sorry.
20:41 I'm sorry.
20:42 Sometimes we get out over our skis, but yeah, that, that is an interesting thought experiment.
20:46 Like are we putting our human expectations because we want pole pot to suffer.
20:51 We want now to suffer.
20:52 Like we want these people to suffer with the person that murdered our family members.
20:55 We want them to suffer, but then there are people that lived quote unquote good lives
20:59 that never heard a fly, never took advantage of anybody.
21:02 They're in hell just the same.
21:03 Are they in the same version of it?
21:05 I mean, whaling and gnashing a teeth and everything else in terms of how hell is described
21:09 in the Bible.
21:10 It's hard for us to say there are people who prophesy in his name who are there.
21:13 Yeah.
21:14 So they don't seem to be having a good time.
21:15 Probably not.
21:16 Yeah.
21:17 All right.
21:18 Well, let's, let's move along because this next section I think is really, really important
21:21 and I'll set it up this way, Matt.
21:22 And then if you would mind getting ready to read 16 through 25, I think that there are
21:26 a lot of ministries today, a lot of churches that have set Christians up wrongly.
21:32 People who are either coming to faith for the first time or people who are continuing
21:35 in their faith to have the wrong expectation about what life is going to be like for them.
21:39 I've had friends who have lost jobs and all of a sudden they're, they're not sure of
21:42 God exists anymore as they're sitting in a home with air conditioning in a free country
21:49 with Wi-Fi and a Netflix account and all these other things and they're wondering if this
21:53 God will, will ever exist and, you know, pop up so that they can have provision.
21:57 So Matt, if you would read 16 through 25, sure, behold, I'm sending you out as sheep in the
22:04 midst of wolves.
22:05 So we be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, beware of men for they will deliver
22:11 you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues and you will be dragged before governors and
22:16 kings for my sake to bear witness before them and the Gentiles.
22:21 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say
22:27 for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour.
22:30 It is not you who speak, but the spirit of your father speaking through you brother will
22:35 deliver brother over to death and the father is child and children will rise against parents
22:41 and have them put to death and you will be hated by all for my name's sake.
22:46 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
22:49 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next for truly I say to you, you will
22:54 not have gone through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
22:59 A disciple is not above his teacher nor a servant above his master.
23:02 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master.
23:07 If they have called the master of the house, he is above, he is above, how much more will
23:14 they malign those of his household.
23:18 So as you read that section, that gives you an accurate representation of what we are
23:23 to expect to potentially happen to us for the sake of us having faith in Christ and
23:27 living outwardly as a Christian.
23:31 One quick thing before I forget verse 20 for it is not you who speak, but the spirit of
23:34 your father speaking through you, the most recent time where I felt like that happened
23:38 was whenever I spoke at Lewisburg prison, you know, I did everything I needed to do to
23:42 prepare, you know, God can move mountains, but bring a shovel, I definitely brought a shovel
23:45 or two.
23:46 But then once I got out there, it's like, I'm in, you know, Holy Spirit, let's get that,
23:50 let's get it.
23:51 Like I'm just going to open my mouth and we're just going to figure it out.
23:53 Same thing when you pray for people.
23:55 But guys, just talk to me a little bit about how people have gotten this idea.
23:58 And I wonder, there's a lot of reasons, but where, where did modern Christians get this
24:02 idea that when you become a Christian or when you continue being a Christian, that things
24:06 are just supposed to work out and it's all just supposed to be peaches and cream?
24:09 I just, I just don't get where we get the idea.
24:11 I think, well, one, this is a promise.
24:14 People like to talk about promises of God.
24:15 God is Jesus is promising some persecution here.
24:19 And we don't want that promise.
24:21 But I think here in the West, I think you can attribute it to the quote, tough times,
24:27 create tough men, tough men, create good times, good times, create weak men, weak men, create
24:33 tough times.
24:35 And because like the Judeo-Christian ethic has been at the center of our nation, that has,
24:45 God has woven into the fabric and I think that we here specifically in America have woven
24:53 together the idea of prosperity and faith.
24:58 And because of faith-centered life and Deuteronomy and Exodus and the moral laws that govern
25:07 the universe are at the core of our constitution and some of our founding documents that are
25:11 called men are created equal, that that has kind of turned into this, well, if I'm a Christian,
25:17 I should be good.
25:18 I should be, I should be good because I'm adhering to the culture.
25:21 And there is some success that comes with that and just, just a take, I guess, it's
25:28 very easy to become passive in your faith when you feel like, especially with us living
25:36 in the Bible belt.
25:37 It's like, oh, yeah, everybody around here is a Christian, so I don't have to work very
25:42 hard.
25:43 You know, and I don't expect a whole lot of pushback.
25:45 But we can see that things are changing and some of us, not many of us are being caught
25:50 off guard in that respect.
25:53 So yeah, I just think we've become very content.
25:56 And I probably said it before, but the human heart, we all need to go through little miniature
26:01 revolutions from time to time to reassess where we are personally and in our faith.
26:07 And whether we are growing towards Christ and whether we are living at our purpose as
26:14 cold.
26:15 So I'd say I almost had an opposite perspective.
26:19 You know, like my grandmother and grandparents would go, I would go to church with them growing
26:23 up and still to this day, some of the biggest influences in my life from a Christian perspective.
26:30 Also they sacrifice themselves for people all around and have my whole life.
26:36 And so a couple of things I remember before I decided to give my life to Christ that I
26:40 was thinking was a, for a long time, I was running because I knew that I would have to
26:45 change elements of my lifestyle to be an actual Christian, whatever that meant to me at the
26:50 time, which was very scary.
26:52 The second thing I thought about all the time was sanctification, this, this perception
26:57 of what that meant.
26:59 And the perception of some of the Christians that I knew always seem to be going through
27:03 some kind of trial.
27:04 And I'm like, why do I want to go through that?
27:07 You know, why is that?
27:09 You know, I mean, so becoming a Christian means that I have to change my behaviors and
27:13 I've got to be going through all these trials.
27:14 That was kind of a perception that I had.
27:16 It was not everything is going to be hunky, dory and prosperity gospel or anything even
27:22 like that.
27:23 Maybe that's because I was processing it differently.
27:25 But then I would just say to anybody that does have that thought, my perspective now
27:30 is that those things are true, but I think it equips you to go through the challenges
27:34 that you're going to have to go through inevitably and a certain level.
27:37 And then I do think that that God will put you to the test.
27:41 I mean, it says that it says that much in the word.
27:44 So you have to expect that he's going to be coming along with you.
27:46 When I think people don't, why would Jesus subscribe serpents and doves if we only needed
27:52 to be innocent does?
27:53 Yeah.
27:54 Right.
27:55 Because the serpent is shrewd and cunning and smart and, you know, judging, judging, yeah,
27:59 discerning in all those different ways.
28:01 So why would he say that you need to be both?
28:03 And so because you don't need to be a serpent and need to be cunning and thinking about
28:07 in all these ways, if things are just going to work out for you.
28:09 Like if Jesus is your get out of everything, difficult card, right?
28:13 Like that he's your provision card.
28:15 No matter what, you can always just swipe it and have whatever you need.
28:18 You would need both of those types of things.
28:19 And it's, that's one of the many dichotomies presented in the Bible, you know, Jesus is
28:24 lying in lamb, he's grace and truth, he's asking us to be serpent and dove.
28:29 And again, serpent that connects to the garden, like there's, there's a lot of things there
28:33 when it comes to that particular animal.
28:35 Don't know why Jesus decided to use that as his example.
28:40 But hey, I'll ask him someday, hopefully.
28:42 And so that's, that's the thing here that I think is very important is we have to understand
28:45 that the economy certainly applies to us in that situation.
28:48 Anything else on this section right here before we move on?
28:51 Well, I, you know, one other thing, I just, I wonder if salvation or people's perception
28:56 of salvation has just become very soft, like they don't understand like what it means.
29:02 Like they're, you know, who was forgiven or who's going to be more thankful for being
29:10 forgiven, the one that was forgiven, the small debt of the large debt, you know.
29:13 So some of us maybe don't fully understand what that looks like then.
29:20 Some of us don't understand what the cost is to be a disciple of Christ.
29:25 Obviously we're talking about that here.
29:27 But like if we go back a couple of chapters, I think we look at the narrow gate.
29:31 It's got a sign that says persecution on it, you know, it's just, it's pretty clear, you
29:36 know, this go this narrow, narrow way, but there's a cost associated with it.
29:41 Yeah.
29:42 It's a, it's a promise.
29:43 But it's a call.
29:44 Peter says, "Gird your loins for this persecution is coming to you."
29:48 Like, man.
29:50 It's coming and you need to be ready for it.
29:53 So which is crazy, you know, to think the, the same guy that preaches Matthew, or preaches
30:00 the sermon of the Mount talking to all this good and loving people is the most, most hated
30:06 out of everybody, you know, it's crazy in that, in that Christians who should be living
30:11 that out and many of them can and rightfully do can be hated by society.
30:17 It's just that the incredible is just very odd that, that is saying working obviously
30:23 behind the scenes.
30:24 It's poetic in a way because if the world is the counter of everything that God wants
30:29 for us post fall, it makes sense that the most righteous, truly righteous among us would
30:35 be hated and that the most perfect example of moral righteousness, Jesus would be hated
30:40 to a degree so extreme as to cause people to, you know, fall into apoplexy if you even
30:46 say his name.
30:47 Right?
30:48 So it's just, we, we go into those different situations where again, you can tell someone
30:51 Merry Christmas, but then when you talk about Jesus like, wait a minute, you know, someone
30:54 can thank God when they're getting their Grammy, but when they start talking about Jesus like,
30:57 whoa, this is weird.
30:59 It's that one name that, you know, you just can't say it.
31:01 It brings a whole different thing.
31:03 Yeah.
31:04 Excuse me, sorry, gentlemen.
31:06 Eric, if you wouldn't mind reading versus 26 through 33, please.
31:13 So have no fear of them for nothing is covered that will be revealed or hidden that will
31:18 not be known.
31:19 Would I tell you in the dark, say in the light and what you hear whispered, proclaim
31:23 on the housetops and do not fear those who killed the body, but cannot kill the soul rather
31:29 fill him fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
31:34 Hell.
31:35 Good grief.
31:36 Are not too sparrows sold for a penny and not one of them will fall to the ground apart
31:40 from your father, but even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31:44 Fear not.
31:45 Therefore, you are of more value than many sparrows.
31:48 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my father who
31:54 is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my father who
32:00 is in heaven.
32:01 So the first person I thought of for those last couple of verses was Peter.
32:04 I was like, wait a minute.
32:05 He denied you before men, but I think it, you know, relays the point that Peter didn't
32:11 stay in his rejection, right?
32:13 If you were to reject God, Jesus outright for forever, then you know, you will be rejected
32:20 by the father in heaven, but I want to go back to verse 28 and do not fear those who can
32:26 kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
32:28 I mean, the worst thing another human can do to you is kill you.
32:32 Some people would argue the worst thing and they could do to you is sexually assault you
32:35 or sexually abuse you or rape you, you know, because you have to live with the fact that
32:40 you've been defiled in such an extreme way.
32:42 So I'm sensitive to both arguments, but we do have a tremendous amount of fear when it
32:48 comes to these types of things.
32:49 But I think back to Columbine when those two young, did you write, did you write that in
32:54 your notes?
32:55 I've got that down right here.
32:56 Yeah.
32:57 Absolutely.
32:58 Well, go ahead and hit it.
32:59 I'm assuming you're going to be talking about confessing before men, because those two those
33:04 two pieces of garbage put kids on their knees.
33:07 I think there's there's a certain level of is demonic and Satan knows the scriptures,
33:16 and there is this demonic element of putting someone on their knees, putting a gun to their
33:21 head and saying, do you believe in Jesus?
33:24 What a story that is, and if for those people who in our audience who are young maybe don't
33:32 know what Columbine is, Columbine was the first big major school shooting in our nation's
33:37 history in Columbine, Colorado.
33:39 Yeah.
33:40 Yep.
33:41 And these two kids, they gunned down several of their classmates, but they're the story,
33:45 the big, one of the big stories that came out of that was they, they put these two kids
33:48 on their knees and they said, do you believe in Jesus?
33:52 And without hesitation, yes, Jesus is my Lord and Savior was, was to paraphrase how they
34:01 responded and they killed him.
34:04 But that's, that's the first thing I thought of was, was that story, but there is this
34:11 demonic aspect of that of, of the devil just trying to say, okay, I know this kid's going
34:16 to die.
34:17 I know they're a Christian.
34:19 Maybe I can just get him one more time, just get him to, just get him to, to denounce Christ
34:25 before men.
34:27 And you know, then I'll have their eternal soul or their, they, they will be eternally
34:31 separated from, from God.
34:33 Like what a powerful story though that they even, even then facing death were like, yeah.
34:39 Yeah.
34:40 One of, one of the names, this, this happened in April of 1999 was Rachel Scott for anyone
34:44 that knows Eric Harrison, Dylan Cleanbold, they, they had produced pipe bombs that they
34:49 were going to blow up in the cafeteria.
34:50 So even though a lot of young people lost their lives, it was going to be way more.
34:56 That was, that was planned.
34:57 I think it was 12 students.
34:58 I think it says here 12 students and one teacher were killed that day.
35:01 But I also think back to, if you guys haven't read the book, tried by fire by William Bennett,
35:06 you absolutely have to.
35:07 It's a accounting of the first thousand years of the Christian church.
35:10 And when you read about the martyrs from the first, second and third century, especially,
35:15 they were killed in some of the most horrific ways that you can imagine they were dipped
35:19 in boiling water repeatedly until they died.
35:22 They had a hot oil poured over them.
35:24 They were lit a flame.
35:26 They were buried alive.
35:28 There were a couple of stories that they strapped a horse to a rope and one leg and another
35:32 horse to the other leg ran the horses in opposite directions and, you know, pulled these people
35:37 into pieces.
35:39 There were people that were strapped to ropes and then strapped to a bull and then the bull
35:42 would be sent down like these external steps and the person would be killed by hitting all
35:46 the steps on the way down.
35:49 Excuse me.
35:50 Sorry.
35:51 And we have no accounts in either biblical documents, Christian writers, Jewish historians,
35:57 secular historians, Roman historians, describing any of these people are announcing their face.
36:03 Like that's a pretty extreme thing to think about.
36:05 I can't remember the story, but the only time where someone that I can think of historically
36:12 that recanted was in England, I think during the Catholic Protestant kind of wars that
36:22 were going on there and I can't remember his name, but he recanted his faith, but he was
36:26 so convicted that he walked, he walked to the stake because he felt so convicted and
36:34 was so distraught with himself for denouncing his savior that he willingly said, yeah, you
36:41 know what, I'm going to go, I'm going to go burn because I can't, I can't live with myself.
36:47 Yeah.
36:48 In addition to that William Bennett book, there's one called Jesus freaks.
36:52 It's got more modern, modern accounts.
36:55 Yeah.
36:56 That's good.
36:57 Interesting.
36:58 Yeah.
36:59 Well, let's hit the next section here.
37:00 Let's hit versus 34 through 39.
37:02 We'll take a volunteer.
37:03 I'll do it.
37:04 This is probably my favorite part of the chapter, do not think that I have come to bring peace
37:09 to the earth.
37:10 I have not come to bring peace about a sword for I have come to set a man against his father
37:16 and a daughter against her mother and a daughter in law against her mother in law and a person's
37:21 enemies will be those of his own household.
37:24 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me and whoever loves son
37:28 or daughter more than me is not worthy of me and whoever does not take his cross and
37:33 follow me is not worthy of me.
37:36 Whoever finds his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for my sake, we'll find it.
37:43 Very popular and well known section of Matthew.
37:48 This is a, you're with him or you're against them style.
37:50 I love what John MacArthur said about this particular section.
37:53 He said the following Christ presupposes that you are willing to endure hardship, so there's
37:58 a presupposition here of what you are willing to endure, which again, we've talked about
38:01 a lot, but I want you all to hit whatever part of this because there's a lot you can
38:05 discuss.
38:06 The one thing that sticks out for me is and whoever does not take his cross.
38:09 That's verse 38.
38:11 This again, we have to put ourselves in the context of this time period that had to have
38:15 been a shocking thing, a shocking metaphor for the disciples to hear because again, they
38:20 lived in a Roman controlled province, you know, not technically, but literally, and they knew
38:26 what the Romans would do in order to, you know, control their people.
38:30 And it was the threat of the worst possible execution and embarrassment of being hung
38:35 on the cross.
38:36 And as we learned by reading Eugenia Constantine's book, you know, the only dignity that they
38:42 allowed the Jews that they crucified was they wouldn't crucify them naked because of the
38:46 laws against public nudity or, you know, those types of things.
38:51 But again, we can't just glaze over that that when he said that, the disciples, their
38:56 stomachs had to have sunk.
38:57 Yeah.
38:58 They knew what the cross was.
38:59 I wrote, I wrote, they knew what the cross was.
39:00 And this is the first mention of the cross well before Jesus goes to his death on the
39:05 cross.
39:06 He was violent and degrading and following Jesus is not for glitz or glamor, but it can
39:12 be ultimately violent and degrading and you must be committed up to death.
39:19 And we are insulated from this, like in Brody Bockham's latest book, The Ever Loving Truth,
39:23 he talks about in there to where it's like, look, we live in perhaps the only country
39:28 in the world where we're not actually like hunted down and killed for our faith.
39:34 That's not exactly how I said it.
39:35 I think that's a little bit hyperbolic.
39:37 But the way he said it was, was perfect where it's just like, you all understand how easy
39:39 it is to be a Christian in America.
39:41 Like there is no threat.
39:43 The worst thing that could happen to you is somebody leaves you a mean comment on your
39:46 Facebook, right?
39:48 And perhaps there are some certain things that are happening in the law now that are
39:51 not exactly advantageous to Christians, but they're they're not being executed because
39:56 you had a copy of the gospel of John under your pillow, right?
39:59 Like we live in this super easy bubble wrapped version of America.
40:04 And it's just like these people's faith in other countries where, you know, if you're
40:08 in Nigeria and Boko Haram finds out that you're a Christian, like they might chop your freaking
40:13 head off.
40:14 And it's just like, we don't have to deal with that.
40:15 But we would.
40:16 Oh, go ahead, Zach.
40:17 I was just going to say, I don't, I don't know how to articulate this extremely well,
40:22 but some of them been thinking a lot about is when you take that almost eternal perspective
40:26 from here moving forward, like think about it from God's perspective.
40:30 When he said earlier, when Jesus said, let the dead bury the dead, if you think about
40:34 it from, you know, a thousand years from now or 10,000 years from now, this will be so
40:39 temporal and temporary.
40:42 And so as he's talking about these harsh things about division and all of that, the
40:47 people that you're surrounded with that are in Christ are going to be, you know, in essence,
40:51 your family for all eternity.
40:53 And the rest, the rest of the people that are around you that are not, he's laying out
40:57 very clearly won't be there.
41:00 You need to think about that with your friends and your family.
41:03 It gives you some perspective and Christ is very clear about this.
41:08 And so I think as I read this, it hits me that you need to take it seriously and you need
41:16 to be thinking about those in your life that you can have these types of conversations
41:20 with.
41:21 Yep.
41:22 Yeah.
41:23 I mean, if you, we must place the gospel above like personal comfort, I think is, you know,
41:28 so in the right in the right situation, whatever that situation is, if it is to be, then it
41:34 is to be me, you know, we have to have that kind of attitude going into those situations
41:41 where we can stand in the gap for people with the hope of them seeing the gospel through
41:49 through our faithfulness even and to put it into even more perspective.
41:54 We shared this the other day, but the average person lives 28,000 days.
41:58 So that's 80 years.
42:00 So each day, just think about that.
42:03 The end of the age may not come for a long time, but the end of your age in a very permanent
42:09 home after that is going to come soon and it's going to be the same for those around
42:13 you.
42:14 And then eventually you're talking about, man, we really want people to get what they deserve.
42:18 I think when we get to heaven, I don't know, but we're told that every tear is going to
42:22 be wiped and there's going to be joy.
42:24 I don't know if we're even going to comprehend what happened to those people.
42:27 I have no idea.
42:29 I kind of think that we're not going to be thinking much about that.
42:33 I think you're right there.
42:34 I think we're standing in the presence of God seeing his holiness.
42:38 We can get a glimpse of what that might be like.
42:40 I mean, Moses caught a glimpse of God's backside when it talks about he sees God's glory, like
42:47 the verbiage is there as he sees his backside.
42:49 And then the people couldn't even look at him.
42:51 So the reflection of God's backside was so blinding that the people that he went down
42:56 to see from the mountain couldn't even look upon his face without shuddering in fear.
43:02 So to your point, I think we're not going to be thinking about a lot of things outside
43:08 of being in the presence of God.
43:10 But to your point about Americans, we're kind of lulled into sleep of like not being persecuted.
43:18 I always think back to this, this quote, Martin Nemolar, Luther and Pastor during the 1930s.
43:27 And I think we would be wise to not just say, "Ah, it's easy, it's good.
43:30 I'm not persecuted.
43:31 It's cool."
43:32 We should still speak to the things that the gospel speaks to and speak towards and
43:38 justices.
43:39 And this quote, this quote can be haunting and very convicting all at the same time.
43:43 First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.
43:47 Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade
43:51 unionist.
43:52 Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
43:56 Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.
44:01 And he, man, it's a brutal quote because when you look at Bonhoeffer's life, he obviously
44:07 thought, "I'm gonna speak truth and even if it causes me death," and obviously it ultimately
44:16 did.
44:17 Well, it's because we get to choose the hill we die on and that's one thing I've said
44:21 for forever is Christians and conservatives have followed the 11th commandment, "Thou
44:25 shall be nice and we never find a hill that is worth dying on."
44:28 And you can twist yourself up into theological pretzels trying to avoid entering the culture
44:35 war, and people are like, "Oh, Christians should take the benedic option and not just
44:39 defile themselves by being in the culture war."
44:41 And I'm like, "By culture war, do you mean the fact that little girls are having their
44:44 breasts cut off and little boys are having their penises cut off or they're taking these
44:50 hormones that can't be reversed?"
44:52 They're being murdered in the womb.
44:54 Right.
44:55 Help me see the middle ground on this.
44:58 When people are like, "Oh, we're gonna advocate from the less loud middle."
45:02 Really?
45:03 Where exactly is that?
45:04 Can you help me find the middle ground of whether or not we slaughterness and babies
45:08 in the womb?
45:09 Can you help me find the middle ground?
45:10 And so again, it makes us feel good, but actually it's cowardly because it's like, "I
45:15 don't want to enter into these discussions, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put those
45:18 discussions into a category where we just can't touch that.
45:22 It's too hot."
45:23 But it's like, "Sorry, we don't get that option."
45:25 Right?
45:26 Now, that's not licensed to be a jerk.
45:28 That's not licensed to go into every situation looking to [inaudible] people off.
45:32 But look, we're already guaranteed that people are going to hate us.
45:36 And so if we say something like, "It's actually not your body, so it's not your choice.
45:40 It's inside of your body," people are gonna hate you for saying that you say it all the
45:44 more.
45:45 Right?
45:46 That's the standard.
45:47 Two things come to mind there.
45:48 I heard a guy once express culture as if you're a fish swimming through the water.
45:54 You don't know exactly what you're swimming through, but that's literally the culture.
45:59 So you're in it regardless of if you're trying to stay out of it.
46:02 The other thing is you can never not communicate, even with your silencer.
46:07 Even with your silence.
46:08 So you are participating in the culture, regardless.
46:11 You might as well do it with some intentionality.
46:14 Go back to...
46:15 I know, Matt, you borrowed the letter to the American church from American Metaxas, and
46:19 you're reading through it right now.
46:20 Have you gotten to the section about the churches in Germany?
46:22 Yeah?
46:23 The 12,000?
46:24 Yeah, so I forget the exact numbers, but...
46:27 I'm almost there.
46:28 Yeah, so, Eric Metaxas, I think the number was around 1200, I can't remember the exact
46:32 number, but there was a certain number of Christian pastors in Germany that if they could
46:37 go back in time and if those people had stood up against the rise of the Nazi party and
46:43 Hitler and the brown shirts and all that, if they just stood up and said no, as opposed
46:49 to just acquiescing or to silently taking it or whatever, these people weren't putting
46:54 up swastikas inside their churches necessarily, they were just allowing, "Yeah, go ahead and
46:58 play through."
46:59 It was kind of their attitude.
47:00 Yeah, Romans 13, like, "Yeah, y'all, we will bow to you as our magistrates."
47:05 If a small number had actually flipped and been against them, there's no rise of the
47:10 Third Reich, there is no Holocaust, there is no World War II.
47:14 We're talking about tens of millions of people would not have died.
47:19 Now, you could say, "Well, if that didn't happen, then it would have happened here with
47:22 this group in that group, maybe, but we would need a parallel universe by which to differentiate
47:26 and find that."
47:28 That's the big issue that people don't understand.
47:31 Is there like, "I'm just going to let people push on me.
47:33 It's no big deal.
47:34 We'll let somebody else fight that fight."
47:36 You have no idea because you made the point earlier, Zach, our AD years is just a blip
47:41 on the radar.
47:42 The 20th century, though, until history ends, that is a time period that we will be able
47:49 to look back on and say, "At no point in history, did more people die because of atheistic
47:54 regimes than in the 20th century in the world."
47:58 That's not just a blip, and it was because a bunch of individuals decided, "This isn't
48:02 worth it.
48:03 This isn't the hill to die on.
48:04 I don't want to seem unwindsome.
48:06 I don't want to seem any of those types of things.
48:08 I'm just going to go along to get along.
48:10 I want to be known for what I'm for, not what I'm against," and then look what happened.
48:14 It comes out to a murderous end.
48:17 Yeah, that's a difficult place because I think all things happen to God's glory and history
48:23 bends to God's will and what was meant for evil to quote Joseph from Genesis.
48:30 God meant for good, but I think there's a lot of truth to that.
48:36 I think we live in a time where we can act that out and act that faith out.
48:42 I mean, Esther, again, I think Esther is a great example.
48:47 I think she saved thousands of Jewish people from death because she was obedient to calling.
48:53 Who knows?
48:54 Maybe if she said no, a bunch of them would have died.
48:55 It would have been to God's glory for sure, but she acted in her time that God had called
49:00 and ordained for her to do.
49:03 Are we being obedient to that now, just as the pastors in Germany were being disobedient?
49:10 We're called to have faith and have some inner peace and trust and that sort of thing.
49:19 That's absolutely the case.
49:20 The other thing I think about is, I heard a quote the other day, and it's by Trudeau,
49:24 which is not my favorite source, Pierre or Justin, but it's true.
49:30 He made it, and it's not exactly right, but he said, "Things have never moved as fast as
49:37 they are today, and they'll never be this slow again."
49:41 If you think about the 20th century, you talked about how horrific many things were, and they're
49:46 good things too, but they happened at a little slower pace.
49:48 Today, it's even more imperative that we have to be plugged in and paying attention and
49:53 intentional.
49:54 Trusting, but engaged because things are happening at a very rapid clip.
49:58 What I remind people of all the time is five years ago, so we'll say this, 10 years ago,
50:05 the gay marriage across the entire United States seemed crazy.
50:08 I think what Bergfeld was, 2015, less than 10 years ago.
50:13 Five years ago, the idea that we would be, there would be people advocating for children
50:18 to be put on purity blockers and to have their genitalia's altered or cut off or whatever.
50:25 What that's crazy.
50:26 I remember saying several years ago, I started talking to people, I was like, "Guys, pedophilia
50:31 is next.
50:32 It will normalize pedophilia because, again, if you are 10 years old and you can choose
50:36 your gender, why can you not choose your sexual partner?
50:39 If I can identify as something that I am biologically not, why can I not identify by a different
50:44 biological clock?
50:45 As a 37-year-old man, why can't I identify as a 13-year-old so that I can enter into
50:49 a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old?
50:51 Again, you have to extrapolate out the worldview to its logical end."
50:55 And people are like, "Oh, that's great, Kyle."
50:57 Now, I know you say some crazy stuff on your show, but, dude, come on.
51:00 It's like, "What else do you need to see?
51:03 You think this train stops?"
51:04 Isn't that being wise of servants?
51:07 You would think so.
51:08 You don't like that.
51:09 That's a call to understand how the world works and understand how Satan does things
51:13 and logically take out that argument to its conclusion.
51:18 Like you're saying there, if kids can consent to changing their gender, let's flush that
51:26 out fully.
51:28 Let's think about this critically and put some categories on things.
51:34 And don't be dumb.
51:35 R.C. Sproul says, "You don't have to lose your intellect to be a Christian, but you
51:38 do have to lose your pride."
51:40 So we can be smart, and we can be intellectual, and we can understand what these things logical
51:46 conclusions end at.
51:48 And I think, to your point, we have to understand where that goes.
51:51 Be wise of servants.
51:52 And part of it is that Christians would much rather cover their eyes and plug their ears
51:57 and not have to deal with this.
51:59 And this is proven by the fact that I give these abortion talks, and it makes people
52:03 really uncomfortable.
52:04 And it's like, why?
52:06 I'm equipping you with the tools that you need in this battle, with the weapons that
52:10 you need for this fight.
52:11 I'm not equipping you with, here's the one stat you can throw in that pro-abortion person's
52:15 face to dunk on the libs.
52:17 That's not what I'm doing.
52:18 I want you to, in a loving way, push back against their hateful, murderous ideology,
52:23 right?
52:24 So, you're not having to peel yourself off of them after you've bludgeoned them into
52:28 the ground.
52:29 I'm giving you a different option where you can use your words to potentially win them
52:32 over to the moral position.
52:34 But Christians are not prepared for the fight.
52:37 They don't have an apologia or apology for their faith, much less being able to push
52:41 back against specific ideologies.
52:43 So if you're a Christian and you're not comfortable engaging in a discussion about abortion, or
52:49 how are you going to have a discussion about transgenderism?
52:51 And if you're not comfortable with that, how are you going to have a discussion about
52:55 pedophilia or polyamory or any of those types of things like, you're just not ready.
53:01 You're not equipped.
53:02 Yeah.
53:03 And you're saying, you know, things are moving faster and they'll never move slower.
53:07 Well, they're also coming earlier, you know, so when we think about our family and when
53:11 we think about our kids, like, I don't know how old you were whenever you got the birds
53:15 in the beast talk, if you even got it, you know, mine happened to come through my junior
53:19 high class, you know, science teacher was introducing me to that.
53:24 So I was at least 12, I guess, maybe 13, but now like your first exposure to pornography
53:31 for most boys is around the age of eight, right?
53:34 And if a kid doesn't know, I mean, my seven year old knows more, at least as many terms
53:41 as I know about all the cultural things that we've got going on.
53:44 And so she may have questions about them and not fully understand, but they're out there,
53:49 you know, and I can't even open up Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it without immediately
53:54 seeing things that, you know, push, push my button basically because they're just right
53:58 in my face.
53:59 That's hard.
54:00 I had to, for me specifically, it was fifth grade, I remember the conversations in the
54:05 school yard, but because of all of our friend groups that have children that are our age
54:09 or maybe kids that have just come from children that are our age, they warned us.
54:14 So then you have to think, well, I guess I need to have this discussion now in first
54:18 grade or second grade, but it doesn't it and it doesn't in there.
54:23 That's just a beginning.
54:24 That's just a start, right?
54:25 So then just any opportunity, I mean, these are all teachable moments.
54:29 So anytime a commercial come on comes on or there's a new Disney movie that has a gay
54:33 and lesbian, whatever, you know, now you have opportunities.
54:37 So it becomes this ongoing thing.
54:38 So just for anybody that's listening, it's not a one time thing, not a one time conversation,
54:43 but it's a, it's many small conversations you have just an ongoing open dialogue about
54:47 this sort of thing with your kids, because they're going to get exposed to it and they're
54:50 going to get exposed to it repeatedly.
54:53 And we don't need them being subject, well, they're going to be subject to it won't need
54:58 them to.
54:59 Oh, I don't know what the word is, but you know, when someone says it enough times, you
55:04 know, and with authority that it somehow is kind of perceived as being right, you know,
55:08 we don't need them to get dumbed down and start believing this crap.
55:12 And if you don't do it, the culture is fine to do it.
55:14 Absolutely.
55:15 The culture is not going to nudge you in a certain direction, it's going to force you
55:18 down a certain direction.
55:19 Our kids will be categorized, you get to choose by whom Steve Lawson says we are to be a ship
55:24 in the ocean, which is the world, but not let any water in.
55:28 And we're called to pull people out, call them out, dry them off.
55:32 Now you're in the boat, but the world, the world is coming for us.
55:36 You know, one of them is already interrupting, but one of the things that I would say to any
55:43 parent is either the privilege of being discipled and mentored by a person that has a desire
55:50 to do that.
55:51 And that had been discipled and whatnot.
55:54 But your discipleship starts at home, you know, it should be father and mother, discipling
55:58 their kids.
56:00 And there's nothing wrong with me getting that extra mentorship later on, but we can't
56:05 push off that sort of thing to our churches, to our youth pastors, to someone that may
56:11 or may not exist in the future that will pour into your child's life.
56:14 You need to be doing it.
56:15 And it is a difficult job, and you know, it talks about the workers are a few.
56:18 We don't need to be families that aren't working hard at categorizing our kids.
56:24 80% of the life questions from our house come like five minutes before you're supposed
56:29 to be asleep.
56:30 Yeah.
56:31 Make sure you're engaged the whole day, all the way to the former Sunday school teacher
56:36 tell me that bedtime, bedtime is the greatest thing.
56:41 And you can have as a parent because it really is an invitation to the window of your child's
56:46 soul.
56:47 Because that's like you said, that's when that stuff comes up because, you know, you're
56:50 a captive audience.
56:51 You're sitting there the days over and so like, yes, we should be, we should be prepared
56:54 and ready to speak to that.
56:56 Yeah.
56:57 And the other even just car rides in the, you know, with your son, you don't have to be
57:01 face to face looking each other eye to eye to have a conversation.
57:04 Just go, go to Lowe's together in the car, your side by side, or he's in the back seat
57:09 or whatever, and you're just, you can have a conversation just like that.
57:12 That's one thing that I've had to remind myself because as I've said before, my schedule
57:16 is so jam-packed and we don't have a lot of extra options locally here for childcare.
57:21 And so my wife and I don't get very much time to do the things that we need to do.
57:25 And so I try to squeeze every last second out of my day, wake up early, get my lift in
57:31 or my jujitsu in or my run in or whatever.
57:34 And then I just, I'm just squeezing things into every inch of every day.
57:37 So it's like, you know, I'm not just doing the dishes.
57:40 I'm doing the dishes while listening to a podcast.
57:42 I'm not just doing these.
57:43 I'm trying to like stack things up.
57:44 And so there have been a lot of times where I've rushed bedtime with, with James and it's
57:48 like, all right, quick book.
57:49 Let's read it.
57:50 All right.
57:51 Quick prayer.
57:52 All right.
57:53 See you later, man.
57:54 Don't get out of your bed.
57:55 Like, and then, you know, cause I got to go get work done, right?
57:56 Cause it's only another hour or two before I need to go to sleep.
57:57 And then they'd all starts over again.
57:59 Same thing in the car.
58:00 As you mentioned, Eric, there have been times where it's like, okay, kids in the car, but
58:03 podcast is going to gotta listen to these podcasts, got to get all this information, gotta keep
58:08 going.
58:09 And then it's just like, wait a minute, pause, turn it down.
58:10 James, you know, he's three.
58:11 So he's basically an ape at this point.
58:12 And so, but I at least try to have a conversation with him around just like, man, you know, what
58:15 was your favorite part of your day?
58:16 I don't know.
58:17 Hey, you know, you know, how did, what's your teacher's name?
58:20 I'll just kind of quiz him.
58:21 Dad, I'm a dinosaur.
58:22 And so these aren't like the most enthralling conversations for an adult that wants to have,
58:27 you know, serious, meaningful concepts, but it's like you're open.
58:30 You're keeping a door of communication open with your kid.
58:33 And so for you dad, Zach, I know you're really good about this, like taking that time before
58:37 bed to have those conversations, it's a daily deposit into the, you know, the bank account
58:42 of the kid to say, Hey, look, like I'm, I'm here for you.
58:45 These lines are communication are open.
58:47 And so when it's not just normal every day, Hey, what was your favorite part of your day?
58:50 But it's, Hey, dad, I'm really struggling.
58:52 They know that they can come to you.
58:53 So we got to get to the end here, but we have a couple of more verses.
58:57 So Eric, if you wouldn't mind closing us out with versus 40, 41 and 42.
59:01 Whoever receives you receives me and whoever receives me receives him, sent me the one who
59:08 receives a profit because he is a profit will receive the profits reward and the one who
59:13 receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous
59:17 person's reward.
59:19 And whoever gives one of these little ones, even a cup of cold water, because he is a
59:24 disciple, truly, I say to you, he will be by no means lose his reward.
59:30 So this gets into the discussion of rewards, I think, going to what you were talking a
59:33 little bit about earlier, Zach, and not necessarily like the rewards that will be stored up for
59:38 us in heaven.
59:39 But it's just basically talking about, you know, right treatment of particular people
59:43 in a particular group.
59:44 So y'all have any thoughts on those, those last few verses of Matthew 10?
59:47 Well, I think talking about Christ, kingship.
59:53 And we are sealed by the spirit, and there's this, there's this great picture of messengers
1:00:01 of the king who carry the king's messages sealed by his, or that carry his seal.
1:00:07 They are representative of him, they are, they are in, in lack of a better term, they
1:00:12 are him.
1:00:13 They, they proclaim his message, they carry his authority.
1:00:18 And so, I mean, I think he's talking about, if you receive these people, you are receiving
1:00:25 me, if you reject them, you're, you are rejecting me, because I am, I am giving them the authority
1:00:31 of the king, you should treat them as such.
1:00:33 That's what I got out of it anyway.
1:00:37 Did matches slam at home here at the end?
1:00:40 No one has any other thoughts?
1:00:41 That's pretty good.
1:00:42 Eric, Zach, I just, you know, I think the only thing I just think about opportunities
1:00:48 for hospitality and bringing people in to your home is, I think it's very important.
1:00:57 And so just being able to, to do that for folks is great, you know, and as far as rewards
1:01:06 go, I mean, we, kids and I have had discussions about rewards and interesting, you know, it's
1:01:12 like, it's, I guess the Bible says that we, we receive rewards in heaven.
1:01:17 I don't, I don't, you guys may have different thoughts on that, but I feel like the rewards
1:01:22 we receive are like crowns that then we lay down at the feet of Jesus, if I remember.
1:01:27 And so it's almost like we give up what we have, you know, but, but, and so I never want
1:01:33 to get in the mode of somehow like, I'm working for reward.
1:01:36 I'm just working to glorify God and it's kingdom, and that's the most important thing.
1:01:41 So, Zach, anything else before we leave it?
1:01:45 No, this just says, you know, we can be a blessing to others and not everyone will reject
1:01:50 our witness.
1:01:51 Some will welcome us and receive a blessing.
1:01:53 After all, we are the ambassadors of the king.
1:01:55 Our king will make sure we are rewarded for what we do.
1:01:58 When people receive us, they welcome the king, or we are his representatives.
1:02:03 Read 2 Samuel 10, for an example of what happens when people mistreat the own boys of the king.
1:02:09 So I think it's just a little bit of a, it's important to think, you know, be engaged,
1:02:14 see how you can help.
1:02:16 And it also says that we should be the envoy going out, you know, and just because your
1:02:23 extension of grace or hospitality has been rejected doesn't mean you shouldn't have offered
1:02:27 it from, from the get go.
1:02:28 So that's something to keep in mind as well.
1:02:30 But guys, there's more to be said, but we're going to leave it there in terms of our discussion
1:02:33 of Matthew 10.
1:02:34 Come back here next week where we are going to dig into Matthew 11.
1:02:37 So make sure you're read through Matthew 11 so that you can be prepared for that discussion.
1:02:41 But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
1:02:44 That indaunted life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:02:47 forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:02:49 So just a reminder, the forging table starter set by cross way, all the instructions are
1:02:54 here in the show notes for you to get that amazing set of five books so that you can
1:02:57 start your own forging table and then also just want to remind you that we are a donation
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1:03:02 So if you want to be able to help us equip us so that we can equip men like you around
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1:03:11 Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode, wherever you're listening to this,
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1:03:17 If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to
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1:03:47 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, remember keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual
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