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1:19
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:25
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that's
1:30
-- that wasn't part of it.
1:38
I messed up.
1:40
You know what?
1:41
There's been several times where we are all joking right before I hit my intro and I've
1:44
thought about putting it in there.
1:45
But anyway, it would affect the final thing, so everybody shut up so I can talk out loud.
1:49
Here we go.
1:51
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:53
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:56
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:59
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
2:02
by digging into God's Word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
2:06
with us.
2:07
That's Matt.
2:08
That's Zach.
2:09
That's Eric.
2:10
Hey, I did y'all out of order this time.
2:11
Got to keep you on your toes.
2:12
Here we go, guys.
2:13
So we ended up Matthew 9, where Jesus is basically talking about how the laborers are few.
2:17
And then we get into Matthew 10 and we're right on top of really learning who are going
2:22
to be the people in Jesus' inner circle, right?
2:25
So he's got his disciples and he's calling his 12 apostles here.
2:28
So Matt, if you would, let's read Matthew 10 verses one through four, please.
2:33
Sure.
2:34
And he called to him his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast
2:38
them out and to heal every disease and every affliction.
2:42
The names of the 12 apostles are these first Simon, who is called Peter and Andrew, his
2:47
brother, James, the son of Zebedee and John, his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas
2:53
and Matthew, the tax collector, James, the son of Alpheus and Thaddeus, Simon, the zealot
3:00
and Judas, the scariest who betrayed him.
3:02
You pronounce them all correctly.
3:03
No, sorry, Joby's here, but there's a few things here to point out before we all pick
3:07
our favorite disciples.
3:08
So get ready.
3:09
So apparently there's a difference between, I had never knew what the difference was
3:11
between disciple and apostle, right?
3:13
I saw the apostles were the super cool ones and the disciples were just everybody else,
3:17
but apparently disciple means students and apostles means those that were sent on a mission.
3:22
And so these specifically, it's more apt to call the 12 apostles than disciples, even
3:27
though it's interchangeable, though those two titles, I saw you non your head, Zach.
3:31
When I was talking about that, did you see something about the difference between disciples
3:34
and apostles?
3:35
It struck me too.
3:36
I just, I read this.
3:37
It says a person had to meet certain qualifications to be an apostle of Jesus Christ.
3:41
He must have seen the risen Christ and fellowshiped with him.
3:45
He had to be chosen by the Lord.
3:47
The apostles laid the foundation of the church and then passed from the scene while all believers
3:52
are sent forth to represent the king.
3:54
No believer today can honestly claim to be an apostle for none of us have seen the risen
3:58
Christ.
3:59
Okay.
4:00
Was Paul apostle?
4:01
He.
4:02
Paul the apostle.
4:03
Yeah, he was, but he was called directly by Jesus and he speaks to that in some of his
4:08
letters that he was called by Jesus, so he was an apostle.
4:12
I think that that's a great point that you made because there is a subsection of churches
4:18
who believe that they are apostles and there's this NAR, the new, the new apostle can't remember
4:26
the R stands for, but they believe that they are in the line of the apostles and they get
4:33
into some pretty interesting things, but yeah, I think that's a good point.
4:36
It seems similar to when people say they're in the line of Peter and they're the Pope and
4:41
you know, I've talked with like Catholic friends.
4:42
Hypothetically.
4:43
Yeah, it's like, so none of the popes have been accidents, none of them, like they've
4:46
all been exactly the ones I was supposed to be chosen.
4:48
Can you break?
4:49
Interesting.
4:50
Yeah.
4:51
What is it?
4:52
So Peter was the first Pope, right?
4:53
According to them.
4:54
And he was married, wasn't he not?
4:55
He was.
4:56
Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
4:57
Believe me.
4:58
I brought that up.
4:59
Interesting.
5:00
Like, wait a minute.
5:01
Yeah, jerks.
5:02
It's like Peter can have a wife.
5:03
What's wrong with you guys?
5:04
Well, make sure.
5:05
Yeah, there's some questions for sure.
5:06
This isn't the anti-Catholic podcast.
5:08
This is the anti-Andy Stanley podcast, okay?
5:10
So, but I did want to point one thing out, I forgot who wrote this down and so I want
5:14
to give them credit, but I forgot to write it down.
5:16
This never occurred to me.
5:17
So Simon the zealot, he would have been for the complete overthrow of Rome, like he would
5:23
have trained for overthrowing, overthrowing Rome and then you have Matthew who worked
5:28
for Rome and here they are on this same team.
5:30
I can't think of like, this would have been like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, joining the
5:35
Milwaukee Bucks or something like that, like back in the day for all your old school basketball
5:38
fans.
5:39
This would have been just so completely unheard of that these two men would be on the same
5:42
team, but it's like Jesus is going to call who he calls.
5:45
So does anybody want to have a favorite?
5:47
You want to have like a favorite of these 12 and don't be one of those weirdos like,
5:50
oh, Bartholomew's my favorite.
5:51
No one even knows what he did.
5:53
He's not even a real person.
5:54
He was just named here and then we get nothing else about Bartholomew.
5:57
So do we have favorites?
5:59
Fellows.
6:00
Nobody wants to be the first one to say they got a favorite?
6:03
Yeah.
6:04
Peter, probably for me, James, very practical.
6:08
Peter was just, he was entertaining because he just said whatever is on his mind.
6:15
And oftentimes got himself trouble, but God transformed him into rock for the truth.
6:21
So I guess one more thing just to add this.
6:23
I know you hear the questions today, like, how come nobody's performing miracles like
6:27
this?
6:28
And why don't we see what we saw back then?
6:29
I guess the other thing this would just point out is that the apostles were given special
6:33
power and authority from Christ to perform these miracles at the time.
6:38
And then like he mentions later that then they passed from the scene and then you have
6:41
disciples effectively from that point forward.
6:44
Yeah.
6:45
And isn't it interesting that Judas would have been one that could have done miracles.
6:49
Yep.
6:50
Right?
6:51
And like we did, he was given authority right there.
6:53
Yeah.
6:54
Well, Fellows, do you all have favorites?
6:55
Matthew, I guess would be the clear one for me because that's my name.
7:00
Yeah, that helps.
7:01
Yeah.
7:02
I don't know.
7:03
I don't know.
7:04
I don't know.
7:05
I don't know.
7:06
I don't know.
7:07
I think just because of what I've been consuming recently, James really stands out for a whole
7:10
bunch of reasons.
7:11
But James, son of Zebedee, or James, son of Alpheus.
7:15
I don't know.
7:16
I don't know.
7:17
I don't know.
7:18
I don't know.
7:19
I don't know.
7:20
I don't know.
7:21
I don't know.
7:22
I don't know.
7:23
I don't know.
7:24
I don't know.
7:25
I think just because of what I've been consuming recently, James really stands out for a whole
7:28
bunch of reasons.
7:29
Yeah, James, son of Zebedee, or James, son of Alpheus.
7:33
Zebedee?
7:34
Okay.
7:35
I'm pretty sure that's what you were talking about.
7:38
I'll just kind of round out like Peter.
7:40
Thanks.
7:41
Peter would be the one for me as well because like when people say like, hey, if, you
7:45
know, who in the Bible would you want to like sit down and, you know, talk to if you
7:48
could like understand the language and it can't be Jesus, I always say Peter.
7:51
But then I'm like, that would be a disastrous meeting because we're so much alike.
7:54
We would hate each other.
7:55
Like, yeah, we would just like basically fight the entire time, so that would not be birds
8:00
of a feather type of situation.
8:01
So I'm worried since I'm going out of order, Zach, how about you read versus five through
8:06
15?
8:07
Actually, wait, pause.
8:08
I forgot to talk about the stack of books that are here on the table today.
8:11
So guys, if you were haven't been listening the last several weeks, we keep getting asked
8:15
by people, Hey, I want to start my own forging table, but I don't exactly know what to do.
8:19
And I typically just say, Hey, open up the Bible and start, start there.
8:22
But I decided to partner with Crossway, they are fantastic publisher.
8:25
And this is not a commercial.
8:26
This is not something we're getting paid to talk about.
8:28
We just wanted to put something together with you guys are for you guys to use if you're
8:33
starting a forging table.
8:34
And so I, you know, got the guys here to kind of think through and we worked with Crossway
8:38
and we came up with five books that make up the forging table starter set.
8:41
So these five books, if you buy them off the Crossway website, and I'll tell you how
8:45
to do that here in a second, you can get all five of those books and then get half off
8:48
of the entire set, you literally cannot get that set for that price anywhere else on the
8:53
Internet.
8:54
So the set includes the brand new ESV men's study Bible.
8:57
So that is a men's focused Bible, but it does have a lot of the notes from the ESV study
9:02
Bible.
9:03
That's their most purchased study Bible that they've sold.
9:06
Also, we have the book of Romans, a scripture journal study edition.
9:10
So it's just like these journals.
9:11
I just got a DM, you know, before this one started where someone's like, thank you so
9:14
much for mentioning the, the ESV journals through Crossway, because I use them in my
9:18
church now, it's those journals, but it has the ESV study Bible references on the bottom
9:25
of the pages.
9:26
So it's absolutely fantastic.
9:28
Then we have a new morning mercies by Paul David trip.
9:31
That is a devotional.
9:32
So that's for guys that don't really know, Hey, what devotional should I do?
9:35
That's a great one.
9:36
Doug O'Donnell has a book in there called the beauty and power of biblical exposition.
9:40
That'll give you kind of an intellectual dive into the different types of writings that
9:43
are in the Bible.
9:44
So it'll kind of help you as you're reading.
9:46
And then we rounded out with family shepherds by Vodie Bockam.
9:48
So that is a tremendous book for men that are wanting to be a shepherd for their family
9:53
to catechize their kids, to perform headship over their household.
9:56
That kind of gives you that.
9:57
So all five of those together make up the forging table starter set.
10:00
It's just a three step process.
10:02
It's here in the show notes.
10:03
You need to go to crossway.org and you set up a brand new free crossway plus account.
10:09
Step two, you need to put all these books in your cart and then at checkout.
10:12
This is the final step you need to put in this promo code B S S P five zero to get 50% off
10:18
of that.
10:19
That is Bravo Sierra Sierra pop up five zero and you'll get 50% off that set guys.
10:23
If you're driving or working out right now, don't worry.
10:25
All that will be in the show notes.
10:27
You should definitely check that out now, Zach.
10:29
If you wouldn't mind reading versus five through 15, please.
10:33
These 12 Jesus sent out instructing them go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town
10:39
of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and for claim
10:43
as you go, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
10:47
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons.
10:52
You received without paying, give without pay, acquire no gold or silver or copper for your
10:58
belts, no bag for your journey or to tunics or sandals or a staff for the labor deserves
11:04
his food and whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it.
11:09
Let's stay there and tell you to part as you enter the house, greet, greet it.
11:14
And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it.
11:16
But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
11:20
And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your
11:24
feet when you leave that house or town.
11:27
Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom
11:32
and Gomorrah than for that town.
11:34
We're going to get back to that, but I do want to go back to something that you talked
11:37
about earlier in this section, which where he's talking about, you know, give without
11:41
pay, don't acquire any gold or silver, like, you know, don't take extra stuff.
11:46
This is a big time test because these are people that knew how to be nomadic.
11:51
They knew how to travel and they knew what they needed in order to travel.
11:54
So imagine you're going on a business trip and someone's like, Hey, don't, don't bring
11:58
any extras.
11:59
Like, don't, don't take anything with you.
12:01
Just depend and rely on the people once you get there, but it's not just, Hey, rely on
12:05
the people once you get there.
12:08
It's like, Hey, I got you.
12:09
Okay.
12:10
You're doing my work.
12:11
I've given you these, these powers.
12:12
I've given you this authority.
12:13
Like, just trust me.
12:14
And so it doesn't say that they didn't do that.
12:16
So I would assume that if they didn't do that, and there was some sort of a parable or lesson
12:20
that that would have, that would have happened here.
12:22
But I think that that's an interesting thing to think about like, Hey man, go on ministry.
12:25
Don't worry about, you know, storing up stuff for yourself.
12:28
You're out here to do my work.
12:29
Yeah.
12:30
There's an incense either, I would assume before this where they did do that.
12:36
And so this was kind of the flip of that of Jesus saying you need to rely on me, rely
12:41
on God more in this situation.
12:44
I think it's also a call to us and how we should be in fellowship together.
12:53
And you know, there's a model for the church there, the early church, they did life together.
12:59
And you helped those who needed help, you gave to those who needed it.
13:03
And so there was this strong sense of community, which in some ways, I think we've kind of
13:09
lost sight of in our modern world.
13:12
I mean, everybody, certainly in our circles can provide for themselves, but there is this
13:16
real sense of, and that guy needs something, just going to give it to him.
13:21
I'm going to give it to him freely.
13:22
Yeah.
13:23
This is like the, the first nonprofit ministry right now.
13:26
I remember when we were in, I was on a mission trip in Eastern Europe when I was in college.
13:33
And our last stop was in the Ukraine.
13:37
And we went and ministered to folks in the streets and the town square, and then also
13:44
in hospitals.
13:45
And I remember having a really interesting experience in the hospital, I had been praying
13:50
that I would see some fruit from being on that mission trip and talking to folks and
13:57
whatnot, it was kind of probably a little bit selfish.
13:59
But nonetheless, I just was like, I'd love to see someone like respond to the gospel.
14:04
And we were in a hospital room where there were two gentlemen, both of them were terminally
14:08
ill.
14:09
I don't know what they had, but apparently the people thought we were okay being in the
14:12
same room as them.
14:14
So we were in there ministering to them, and I went and spoke with a gentleman who was
14:17
looking out the window, did not want to look at us, and I just talked to him about Jesus.
14:22
And he listened, had a couple of questions, but ultimately kind of was like, and I'm not
14:28
really into this kind of thing.
14:30
Well, at that same moment on the other side of the room behind a curtain, the gentleman
14:34
started calling out and the interpreter said, Hey, this gentleman wants to talk to you.
14:41
And so went over and spoke with him and talked to him, told him about Jesus and the gospel
14:46
and shared it with him, and he accepted Christ right then and there, which was amazing.
14:52
And then wanted to pay me for that time that we had had.
14:57
And I remember being taken back, but it was just like, No, no, no, no, this is not how
15:02
that works.
15:03
This is a free gift.
15:05
But that, I mean, that's kind of the same issue, you know, they're not going in there
15:09
to try to make money spreading the good news of the gospel to people.
15:15
So people see it certainly that guided in that moment as something extremely valuable.
15:20
You were paid for your work.
15:22
Your labor was worth something.
15:24
So to get your day's wage was, I mean, you worked for that and you got that.
15:30
And to tell them to don't take that now, probably puzzling, but like, I work and I get paid.
15:38
And then to me, I go, I kind of think of the wages of sin is death.
15:46
And Jesus says you received without pay, well, you mean, you didn't pay for my healing you,
15:53
but you're also not getting what you actually deserve because rightfully your wage should
16:00
be death and I have brought you the ultimate salvation.
16:04
So therefore, as I've done for you, go do likewise for other people.
16:09
That's kind of, I know I'm reading in there too, but like that that that is what comes
16:13
to mind there.
16:14
Well, the other thing is I've, I'm pretty sure I've seen the scripture use against people
16:18
that do ministry to be like, yeah, you're not supposed to be paid like to do this.
16:22
And that's that's come up for us before because I charge when I go and speak places, you know,
16:26
we charge that people advertise on our show or something like that unless we've worked
16:30
out some sort of other deal and people get kind of, you know, they get their hackles
16:34
up on that.
16:35
And it's just like, do you get paid for your time, talent and money?
16:38
Do you trade or do you trade your time and talent for money?
16:40
Is that something that you do?
16:41
And it's like, why are you getting on pastors?
16:43
So like when pastors have like business outside of what they do inside the ministry, whether
16:47
it's selling books or speaking and stuff like that, it's like, what's the big deal?
16:51
It's like, yeah, if they create an idol, it's the same as if you were to create an idol out
16:54
of your side hustle or something like that.
16:56
So we've seen that use a different way.
16:58
I did want to talk about verses 14 and 15, you know, this is where, you know, if these,
17:04
these towns don't receive you or listen to your words, you know, shake off the dust from
17:06
your feet.
17:07
That was commonly done by Jews when they would leave Gentile territory, just kind of like,
17:11
ah, you know, almost like a, hey, we're just going to shake the dust off and like, you
17:14
know, show or discuss for this.
17:16
But truly I say to you, it will be more bearable on that day of judgment for the land of Sodom
17:20
and Gomorrah than for that town.
17:23
And it's just like, whoa, whoa, like if you're reading this too fast, it's like, you know,
17:28
wait a minute.
17:29
That is a brutal promise.
17:31
Jesus said that.
17:32
Yeah.
17:33
And here's the thing.
17:34
So, you know, unlike some prominent pastors that think that the Bible only whispers on
17:38
things like sexual immorality, I'm pretty sure is loud when Sodom and Gomorrah was reduced
17:43
to rubble.
17:44
So, you know, shout out to JD Greer.
17:46
You might want to read that, that section of your Bible again.
17:48
But that's the thing that's very interesting about this is like, I guess we don't, we don't,
17:53
we don't compare.
17:54
If you were to compare what the people in Sodom and Gomorrah would do, we're doing before
17:57
they were destroyed.
17:59
And you look at like, oh yeah, these people just like reject you from their town.
18:02
It doesn't seem right that that town would receive a worse sentence than Sodom and Gomorrah.
18:07
But Jesus is like, no, if they reject you, like, we're not going to forget, we're going
18:12
to reduce that place of rubble and it's going to be worse than when we wiped two cities off
18:15
the face of the planet.
18:16
Do you think, do you think there are different degrees of torment in hell based on your rejection
18:23
on earth?
18:24
So, what's interesting about that is, if you read Dante's Inferno, that's exactly what
18:28
you see.
18:29
This is a fiction book, but they talk about the different levels of hell.
18:32
And if you've seen any pictures depicting kind of the different levels of hell, and I'm pretty
18:36
sure in the final level of hell, I'm trying to remember, because it's been a long time
18:41
since I read it.
18:42
But like Judas is in one of the devil's hands or one of Satan's hands and is it Hitler in
18:47
the other?
18:48
No.
18:49
In Dante's, it's the Pope.
18:50
It's the current pope, it's his current pope at the time.
18:54
Francis, that makes sense.
18:55
But it's just like, you know, those are the last two people, they are in the worst part
18:59
of the torment.
19:01
I don't know if we get that from scripture though, like I don't know if we get like
19:03
levels of hell or something like that.
19:05
I think there's probably some apocryphal writings he's taken that from, but I would
19:09
agree.
19:10
I don't think we get that from scripture either, but that's an interesting concept to think
19:14
about.
19:15
I don't want to find out, of course not, you saw it in the war, it gets rained, hellfire
19:20
and brimstone.
19:21
I mean, it's kind of over, like how can it be worse than that unless it's happening afterwards
19:25
for eternity?
19:26
I don't know.
19:27
It's just a thought.
19:28
It's like there are degrees of rewards, right?
19:32
So logically, if it's balanced, maybe there's degrees of hellish rewards or punishments.
19:40
You know, it seems also, I guess that they say it was made for, for demons and everything
19:44
as far as, you know, how they're sent there and all that.
19:49
I don't know.
19:50
I think I personally think that probably would be my best guess, but they say it's the absence
19:55
of God.
19:56
So that's the absence of light and love and all those things that doesn't say that there's
19:59
degrees of absence of God.
20:01
So maybe not going to be like bad, bad if it's already bad.
20:05
Right.
20:06
Well, the same thing true.
20:07
I wonder if that's a human thing that we're putting on to the Bible being like, I really
20:12
hope Hitler's just getting, you know, raped with a lava deck forever or something like
20:17
sorry, Matt.
20:18
I'm sorry.
20:19
Was that too bad?
20:20
Well, one, that's, that's semantically inaccurate because it's a, it's a pineapple in the movie
20:27
that you're referring to.
20:28
Sorry.
20:29
Well, you know, I'm just saying like we want things to be way worse than just for what you
20:32
call it.
20:33
Beliviating or something.
20:34
Beliviating.
20:35
Beliviating.
20:36
It's what they do.
20:37
What is it?
20:38
Where's Bolivia?
20:39
South America, Central America.
20:40
Sorry.
20:41
I'm sorry.
20:42
Sometimes we get out over our skis, but yeah, that, that is an interesting thought experiment.
20:46
Like are we putting our human expectations because we want pole pot to suffer.
20:51
We want now to suffer.
20:52
Like we want these people to suffer with the person that murdered our family members.
20:55
We want them to suffer, but then there are people that lived quote unquote good lives
20:59
that never heard a fly, never took advantage of anybody.
21:02
They're in hell just the same.
21:03
Are they in the same version of it?
21:05
I mean, whaling and gnashing a teeth and everything else in terms of how hell is described
21:09
in the Bible.
21:10
It's hard for us to say there are people who prophesy in his name who are there.
21:13
Yeah.
21:14
So they don't seem to be having a good time.
21:15
Probably not.
21:16
Yeah.
21:17
All right.
21:18
Well, let's, let's move along because this next section I think is really, really important
21:21
and I'll set it up this way, Matt.
21:22
And then if you would mind getting ready to read 16 through 25, I think that there are
21:26
a lot of ministries today, a lot of churches that have set Christians up wrongly.
21:32
People who are either coming to faith for the first time or people who are continuing
21:35
in their faith to have the wrong expectation about what life is going to be like for them.
21:39
I've had friends who have lost jobs and all of a sudden they're, they're not sure of
21:42
God exists anymore as they're sitting in a home with air conditioning in a free country
21:49
with Wi-Fi and a Netflix account and all these other things and they're wondering if this
21:53
God will, will ever exist and, you know, pop up so that they can have provision.
21:57
So Matt, if you would read 16 through 25, sure, behold, I'm sending you out as sheep in the
22:04
midst of wolves.
22:05
So we be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, beware of men for they will deliver
22:11
you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues and you will be dragged before governors and
22:16
kings for my sake to bear witness before them and the Gentiles.
22:21
When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say
22:27
for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour.
22:30
It is not you who speak, but the spirit of your father speaking through you brother will
22:35
deliver brother over to death and the father is child and children will rise against parents
22:41
and have them put to death and you will be hated by all for my name's sake.
22:46
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
22:49
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next for truly I say to you, you will
22:54
not have gone through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
22:59
A disciple is not above his teacher nor a servant above his master.
23:02
It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master.
23:07
If they have called the master of the house, he is above, he is above, how much more will
23:14
they malign those of his household.
23:18
So as you read that section, that gives you an accurate representation of what we are
23:23
to expect to potentially happen to us for the sake of us having faith in Christ and
23:27
living outwardly as a Christian.
23:31
One quick thing before I forget verse 20 for it is not you who speak, but the spirit of
23:34
your father speaking through you, the most recent time where I felt like that happened
23:38
was whenever I spoke at Lewisburg prison, you know, I did everything I needed to do to
23:42
prepare, you know, God can move mountains, but bring a shovel, I definitely brought a shovel
23:45
or two.
23:46
But then once I got out there, it's like, I'm in, you know, Holy Spirit, let's get that,
23:50
let's get it.
23:51
Like I'm just going to open my mouth and we're just going to figure it out.
23:53
Same thing when you pray for people.
23:55
But guys, just talk to me a little bit about how people have gotten this idea.
23:58
And I wonder, there's a lot of reasons, but where, where did modern Christians get this
24:02
idea that when you become a Christian or when you continue being a Christian, that things
24:06
are just supposed to work out and it's all just supposed to be peaches and cream?
24:09
I just, I just don't get where we get the idea.
24:11
I think, well, one, this is a promise.
24:14
People like to talk about promises of God.
24:15
God is Jesus is promising some persecution here.
24:19
And we don't want that promise.
24:21
But I think here in the West, I think you can attribute it to the quote, tough times,
24:27
create tough men, tough men, create good times, good times, create weak men, weak men, create
24:33
tough times.
24:35
And because like the Judeo-Christian ethic has been at the center of our nation, that has,
24:45
God has woven into the fabric and I think that we here specifically in America have woven
24:53
together the idea of prosperity and faith.
24:58
And because of faith-centered life and Deuteronomy and Exodus and the moral laws that govern
25:07
the universe are at the core of our constitution and some of our founding documents that are
25:11
called men are created equal, that that has kind of turned into this, well, if I'm a Christian,
25:17
I should be good.
25:18
I should be, I should be good because I'm adhering to the culture.
25:21
And there is some success that comes with that and just, just a take, I guess, it's
25:28
very easy to become passive in your faith when you feel like, especially with us living
25:36
in the Bible belt.
25:37
It's like, oh, yeah, everybody around here is a Christian, so I don't have to work very
25:42
hard.
25:43
You know, and I don't expect a whole lot of pushback.
25:45
But we can see that things are changing and some of us, not many of us are being caught
25:50
off guard in that respect.
25:53
So yeah, I just think we've become very content.
25:56
And I probably said it before, but the human heart, we all need to go through little miniature
26:01
revolutions from time to time to reassess where we are personally and in our faith.
26:07
And whether we are growing towards Christ and whether we are living at our purpose as
26:14
cold.
26:15
So I'd say I almost had an opposite perspective.
26:19
You know, like my grandmother and grandparents would go, I would go to church with them growing
26:23
up and still to this day, some of the biggest influences in my life from a Christian perspective.
26:30
Also they sacrifice themselves for people all around and have my whole life.
26:36
And so a couple of things I remember before I decided to give my life to Christ that I
26:40
was thinking was a, for a long time, I was running because I knew that I would have to
26:45
change elements of my lifestyle to be an actual Christian, whatever that meant to me at the
26:50
time, which was very scary.
26:52
The second thing I thought about all the time was sanctification, this, this perception
26:57
of what that meant.
26:59
And the perception of some of the Christians that I knew always seem to be going through
27:03
some kind of trial.
27:04
And I'm like, why do I want to go through that?
27:07
You know, why is that?
27:09
You know, I mean, so becoming a Christian means that I have to change my behaviors and
27:13
I've got to be going through all these trials.
27:14
That was kind of a perception that I had.
27:16
It was not everything is going to be hunky, dory and prosperity gospel or anything even
27:22
like that.
27:23
Maybe that's because I was processing it differently.
27:25
But then I would just say to anybody that does have that thought, my perspective now
27:30
is that those things are true, but I think it equips you to go through the challenges
27:34
that you're going to have to go through inevitably and a certain level.
27:37
And then I do think that that God will put you to the test.
27:41
I mean, it says that it says that much in the word.
27:44
So you have to expect that he's going to be coming along with you.
27:46
When I think people don't, why would Jesus subscribe serpents and doves if we only needed
27:52
to be innocent does?
27:53
Yeah.
27:54
Right.
27:55
Because the serpent is shrewd and cunning and smart and, you know, judging, judging, yeah,
27:59
discerning in all those different ways.
28:01
So why would he say that you need to be both?
28:03
And so because you don't need to be a serpent and need to be cunning and thinking about
28:07
in all these ways, if things are just going to work out for you.
28:09
Like if Jesus is your get out of everything, difficult card, right?
28:13
Like that he's your provision card.
28:15
No matter what, you can always just swipe it and have whatever you need.
28:18
You would need both of those types of things.
28:19
And it's, that's one of the many dichotomies presented in the Bible, you know, Jesus is
28:24
lying in lamb, he's grace and truth, he's asking us to be serpent and dove.
28:29
And again, serpent that connects to the garden, like there's, there's a lot of things there
28:33
when it comes to that particular animal.
28:35
Don't know why Jesus decided to use that as his example.
28:40
But hey, I'll ask him someday, hopefully.
28:42
And so that's, that's the thing here that I think is very important is we have to understand
28:45
that the economy certainly applies to us in that situation.
28:48
Anything else on this section right here before we move on?
28:51
Well, I, you know, one other thing, I just, I wonder if salvation or people's perception
28:56
of salvation has just become very soft, like they don't understand like what it means.
29:02
Like they're, you know, who was forgiven or who's going to be more thankful for being
29:10
forgiven, the one that was forgiven, the small debt of the large debt, you know.
29:13
So some of us maybe don't fully understand what that looks like then.
29:20
Some of us don't understand what the cost is to be a disciple of Christ.
29:25
Obviously we're talking about that here.
29:27
But like if we go back a couple of chapters, I think we look at the narrow gate.
29:31
It's got a sign that says persecution on it, you know, it's just, it's pretty clear, you
29:36
know, this go this narrow, narrow way, but there's a cost associated with it.
29:41
Yeah.
29:42
It's a, it's a promise.
29:43
But it's a call.
29:44
Peter says, "Gird your loins for this persecution is coming to you."
29:48
Like, man.
29:50
It's coming and you need to be ready for it.
29:53
So which is crazy, you know, to think the, the same guy that preaches Matthew, or preaches
30:00
the sermon of the Mount talking to all this good and loving people is the most, most hated
30:06
out of everybody, you know, it's crazy in that, in that Christians who should be living
30:11
that out and many of them can and rightfully do can be hated by society.
30:17
It's just that the incredible is just very odd that, that is saying working obviously
30:23
behind the scenes.
30:24
It's poetic in a way because if the world is the counter of everything that God wants
30:29
for us post fall, it makes sense that the most righteous, truly righteous among us would
30:35
be hated and that the most perfect example of moral righteousness, Jesus would be hated
30:40
to a degree so extreme as to cause people to, you know, fall into apoplexy if you even
30:46
say his name.
30:47
Right?
30:48
So it's just, we, we go into those different situations where again, you can tell someone
30:51
Merry Christmas, but then when you talk about Jesus like, wait a minute, you know, someone
30:54
can thank God when they're getting their Grammy, but when they start talking about Jesus like,
30:57
whoa, this is weird.
30:59
It's that one name that, you know, you just can't say it.
31:01
It brings a whole different thing.
31:03
Yeah.
31:04
Excuse me, sorry, gentlemen.
31:06
Eric, if you wouldn't mind reading versus 26 through 33, please.
31:13
So have no fear of them for nothing is covered that will be revealed or hidden that will
31:18
not be known.
31:19
Would I tell you in the dark, say in the light and what you hear whispered, proclaim
31:23
on the housetops and do not fear those who killed the body, but cannot kill the soul rather
31:29
fill him fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
31:34
Hell.
31:35
Good grief.
31:36
Are not too sparrows sold for a penny and not one of them will fall to the ground apart
31:40
from your father, but even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31:44
Fear not.
31:45
Therefore, you are of more value than many sparrows.
31:48
So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my father who
31:54
is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my father who
32:00
is in heaven.
32:01
So the first person I thought of for those last couple of verses was Peter.
32:04
I was like, wait a minute.
32:05
He denied you before men, but I think it, you know, relays the point that Peter didn't
32:11
stay in his rejection, right?
32:13
If you were to reject God, Jesus outright for forever, then you know, you will be rejected
32:20
by the father in heaven, but I want to go back to verse 28 and do not fear those who can
32:26
kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
32:28
I mean, the worst thing another human can do to you is kill you.
32:32
Some people would argue the worst thing and they could do to you is sexually assault you
32:35
or sexually abuse you or rape you, you know, because you have to live with the fact that
32:40
you've been defiled in such an extreme way.
32:42
So I'm sensitive to both arguments, but we do have a tremendous amount of fear when it
32:48
comes to these types of things.
32:49
But I think back to Columbine when those two young, did you write, did you write that in
32:54
your notes?
32:55
I've got that down right here.
32:56
Yeah.
32:57
Absolutely.
32:58
Well, go ahead and hit it.
32:59
I'm assuming you're going to be talking about confessing before men, because those two those
33:04
two pieces of garbage put kids on their knees.
33:07
I think there's there's a certain level of is demonic and Satan knows the scriptures,
33:16
and there is this demonic element of putting someone on their knees, putting a gun to their
33:21
head and saying, do you believe in Jesus?
33:24
What a story that is, and if for those people who in our audience who are young maybe don't
33:32
know what Columbine is, Columbine was the first big major school shooting in our nation's
33:37
history in Columbine, Colorado.
33:39
Yeah.
33:40
Yep.
33:41
And these two kids, they gunned down several of their classmates, but they're the story,
33:45
the big, one of the big stories that came out of that was they, they put these two kids
33:48
on their knees and they said, do you believe in Jesus?
33:52
And without hesitation, yes, Jesus is my Lord and Savior was, was to paraphrase how they
34:01
responded and they killed him.
34:04
But that's, that's the first thing I thought of was, was that story, but there is this
34:11
demonic aspect of that of, of the devil just trying to say, okay, I know this kid's going
34:16
to die.
34:17
I know they're a Christian.
34:19
Maybe I can just get him one more time, just get him to, just get him to, to denounce Christ
34:25
before men.
34:27
And you know, then I'll have their eternal soul or their, they, they will be eternally
34:31
separated from, from God.
34:33
Like what a powerful story though that they even, even then facing death were like, yeah.
34:39
Yeah.
34:40
One of, one of the names, this, this happened in April of 1999 was Rachel Scott for anyone
34:44
that knows Eric Harrison, Dylan Cleanbold, they, they had produced pipe bombs that they
34:49
were going to blow up in the cafeteria.
34:50
So even though a lot of young people lost their lives, it was going to be way more.
34:56
That was, that was planned.
34:57
I think it was 12 students.
34:58
I think it says here 12 students and one teacher were killed that day.
35:01
But I also think back to, if you guys haven't read the book, tried by fire by William Bennett,
35:06
you absolutely have to.
35:07
It's a accounting of the first thousand years of the Christian church.
35:10
And when you read about the martyrs from the first, second and third century, especially,
35:15
they were killed in some of the most horrific ways that you can imagine they were dipped
35:19
in boiling water repeatedly until they died.
35:22
They had a hot oil poured over them.
35:24
They were lit a flame.
35:26
They were buried alive.
35:28
There were a couple of stories that they strapped a horse to a rope and one leg and another
35:32
horse to the other leg ran the horses in opposite directions and, you know, pulled these people
35:37
into pieces.
35:39
There were people that were strapped to ropes and then strapped to a bull and then the bull
35:42
would be sent down like these external steps and the person would be killed by hitting all
35:46
the steps on the way down.
35:49
Excuse me.
35:50
Sorry.
35:51
And we have no accounts in either biblical documents, Christian writers, Jewish historians,
35:57
secular historians, Roman historians, describing any of these people are announcing their face.
36:03
Like that's a pretty extreme thing to think about.
36:05
I can't remember the story, but the only time where someone that I can think of historically
36:12
that recanted was in England, I think during the Catholic Protestant kind of wars that
36:22
were going on there and I can't remember his name, but he recanted his faith, but he was
36:26
so convicted that he walked, he walked to the stake because he felt so convicted and
36:34
was so distraught with himself for denouncing his savior that he willingly said, yeah, you
36:41
know what, I'm going to go, I'm going to go burn because I can't, I can't live with myself.
36:47
Yeah.
36:48
In addition to that William Bennett book, there's one called Jesus freaks.
36:52
It's got more modern, modern accounts.
36:55
Yeah.
36:56
That's good.
36:57
Interesting.
36:58
Yeah.
36:59
Well, let's hit the next section here.
37:00
Let's hit versus 34 through 39.
37:02
We'll take a volunteer.
37:03
I'll do it.
37:04
This is probably my favorite part of the chapter, do not think that I have come to bring peace
37:09
to the earth.
37:10
I have not come to bring peace about a sword for I have come to set a man against his father
37:16
and a daughter against her mother and a daughter in law against her mother in law and a person's
37:21
enemies will be those of his own household.
37:24
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me and whoever loves son
37:28
or daughter more than me is not worthy of me and whoever does not take his cross and
37:33
follow me is not worthy of me.
37:36
Whoever finds his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for my sake, we'll find it.
37:43
Very popular and well known section of Matthew.
37:48
This is a, you're with him or you're against them style.
37:50
I love what John MacArthur said about this particular section.
37:53
He said the following Christ presupposes that you are willing to endure hardship, so there's
37:58
a presupposition here of what you are willing to endure, which again, we've talked about
38:01
a lot, but I want you all to hit whatever part of this because there's a lot you can
38:05
discuss.
38:06
The one thing that sticks out for me is and whoever does not take his cross.
38:09
That's verse 38.
38:11
This again, we have to put ourselves in the context of this time period that had to have
38:15
been a shocking thing, a shocking metaphor for the disciples to hear because again, they
38:20
lived in a Roman controlled province, you know, not technically, but literally, and they knew
38:26
what the Romans would do in order to, you know, control their people.
38:30
And it was the threat of the worst possible execution and embarrassment of being hung
38:35
on the cross.
38:36
And as we learned by reading Eugenia Constantine's book, you know, the only dignity that they
38:42
allowed the Jews that they crucified was they wouldn't crucify them naked because of the
38:46
laws against public nudity or, you know, those types of things.
38:51
But again, we can't just glaze over that that when he said that, the disciples, their
38:56
stomachs had to have sunk.
38:57
Yeah.
38:58
They knew what the cross was.
38:59
I wrote, I wrote, they knew what the cross was.
39:00
And this is the first mention of the cross well before Jesus goes to his death on the
39:05
cross.
39:06
He was violent and degrading and following Jesus is not for glitz or glamor, but it can
39:12
be ultimately violent and degrading and you must be committed up to death.
39:19
And we are insulated from this, like in Brody Bockham's latest book, The Ever Loving Truth,
39:23
he talks about in there to where it's like, look, we live in perhaps the only country
39:28
in the world where we're not actually like hunted down and killed for our faith.
39:34
That's not exactly how I said it.
39:35
I think that's a little bit hyperbolic.
39:37
But the way he said it was, was perfect where it's just like, you all understand how easy
39:39
it is to be a Christian in America.
39:41
Like there is no threat.
39:43
The worst thing that could happen to you is somebody leaves you a mean comment on your
39:46
Facebook, right?
39:48
And perhaps there are some certain things that are happening in the law now that are
39:51
not exactly advantageous to Christians, but they're they're not being executed because
39:56
you had a copy of the gospel of John under your pillow, right?
39:59
Like we live in this super easy bubble wrapped version of America.
40:04
And it's just like these people's faith in other countries where, you know, if you're
40:08
in Nigeria and Boko Haram finds out that you're a Christian, like they might chop your freaking
40:13
head off.
40:14
And it's just like, we don't have to deal with that.
40:15
But we would.
40:16
Oh, go ahead, Zach.
40:17
I was just going to say, I don't, I don't know how to articulate this extremely well,
40:22
but some of them been thinking a lot about is when you take that almost eternal perspective
40:26
from here moving forward, like think about it from God's perspective.
40:30
When he said earlier, when Jesus said, let the dead bury the dead, if you think about
40:34
it from, you know, a thousand years from now or 10,000 years from now, this will be so
40:39
temporal and temporary.
40:42
And so as he's talking about these harsh things about division and all of that, the
40:47
people that you're surrounded with that are in Christ are going to be, you know, in essence,
40:51
your family for all eternity.
40:53
And the rest, the rest of the people that are around you that are not, he's laying out
40:57
very clearly won't be there.
41:00
You need to think about that with your friends and your family.
41:03
It gives you some perspective and Christ is very clear about this.
41:08
And so I think as I read this, it hits me that you need to take it seriously and you need
41:16
to be thinking about those in your life that you can have these types of conversations
41:20
with.
41:21
Yep.
41:22
Yeah.
41:23
I mean, if you, we must place the gospel above like personal comfort, I think is, you know,
41:28
so in the right in the right situation, whatever that situation is, if it is to be, then it
41:34
is to be me, you know, we have to have that kind of attitude going into those situations
41:41
where we can stand in the gap for people with the hope of them seeing the gospel through
41:49
through our faithfulness even and to put it into even more perspective.
41:54
We shared this the other day, but the average person lives 28,000 days.
41:58
So that's 80 years.
42:00
So each day, just think about that.
42:03
The end of the age may not come for a long time, but the end of your age in a very permanent
42:09
home after that is going to come soon and it's going to be the same for those around
42:13
you.
42:14
And then eventually you're talking about, man, we really want people to get what they deserve.
42:18
I think when we get to heaven, I don't know, but we're told that every tear is going to
42:22
be wiped and there's going to be joy.
42:24
I don't know if we're even going to comprehend what happened to those people.
42:27
I have no idea.
42:29
I kind of think that we're not going to be thinking much about that.
42:33
I think you're right there.
42:34
I think we're standing in the presence of God seeing his holiness.
42:38
We can get a glimpse of what that might be like.
42:40
I mean, Moses caught a glimpse of God's backside when it talks about he sees God's glory, like
42:47
the verbiage is there as he sees his backside.
42:49
And then the people couldn't even look at him.
42:51
So the reflection of God's backside was so blinding that the people that he went down
42:56
to see from the mountain couldn't even look upon his face without shuddering in fear.
43:02
So to your point, I think we're not going to be thinking about a lot of things outside
43:08
of being in the presence of God.
43:10
But to your point about Americans, we're kind of lulled into sleep of like not being persecuted.
43:18
I always think back to this, this quote, Martin Nemolar, Luther and Pastor during the 1930s.
43:27
And I think we would be wise to not just say, "Ah, it's easy, it's good.
43:30
I'm not persecuted.
43:31
It's cool."
43:32
We should still speak to the things that the gospel speaks to and speak towards and
43:38
justices.
43:39
And this quote, this quote can be haunting and very convicting all at the same time.
43:43
First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.
43:47
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade
43:51
unionist.
43:52
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
43:56
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.
44:01
And he, man, it's a brutal quote because when you look at Bonhoeffer's life, he obviously
44:07
thought, "I'm gonna speak truth and even if it causes me death," and obviously it ultimately
44:16
did.
44:17
Well, it's because we get to choose the hill we die on and that's one thing I've said
44:21
for forever is Christians and conservatives have followed the 11th commandment, "Thou
44:25
shall be nice and we never find a hill that is worth dying on."
44:28
And you can twist yourself up into theological pretzels trying to avoid entering the culture
44:35
war, and people are like, "Oh, Christians should take the benedic option and not just
44:39
defile themselves by being in the culture war."
44:41
And I'm like, "By culture war, do you mean the fact that little girls are having their
44:44
breasts cut off and little boys are having their penises cut off or they're taking these
44:50
hormones that can't be reversed?"
44:52
They're being murdered in the womb.
44:54
Right.
44:55
Help me see the middle ground on this.
44:58
When people are like, "Oh, we're gonna advocate from the less loud middle."
45:02
Really?
45:03
Where exactly is that?
45:04
Can you help me find the middle ground of whether or not we slaughterness and babies
45:08
in the womb?
45:09
Can you help me find the middle ground?
45:10
And so again, it makes us feel good, but actually it's cowardly because it's like, "I
45:15
don't want to enter into these discussions, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put those
45:18
discussions into a category where we just can't touch that.
45:22
It's too hot."
45:23
But it's like, "Sorry, we don't get that option."
45:25
Right?
45:26
Now, that's not licensed to be a jerk.
45:28
That's not licensed to go into every situation looking to [inaudible] people off.
45:32
But look, we're already guaranteed that people are going to hate us.
45:36
And so if we say something like, "It's actually not your body, so it's not your choice.
45:40
It's inside of your body," people are gonna hate you for saying that you say it all the
45:44
more.
45:45
Right?
45:46
That's the standard.
45:47
Two things come to mind there.
45:48
I heard a guy once express culture as if you're a fish swimming through the water.
45:54
You don't know exactly what you're swimming through, but that's literally the culture.
45:59
So you're in it regardless of if you're trying to stay out of it.
46:02
The other thing is you can never not communicate, even with your silencer.
46:07
Even with your silence.
46:08
So you are participating in the culture, regardless.
46:11
You might as well do it with some intentionality.
46:14
Go back to...
46:15
I know, Matt, you borrowed the letter to the American church from American Metaxas, and
46:19
you're reading through it right now.
46:20
Have you gotten to the section about the churches in Germany?
46:22
Yeah?
46:23
The 12,000?
46:24
Yeah, so I forget the exact numbers, but...
46:27
I'm almost there.
46:28
Yeah, so, Eric Metaxas, I think the number was around 1200, I can't remember the exact
46:32
number, but there was a certain number of Christian pastors in Germany that if they could
46:37
go back in time and if those people had stood up against the rise of the Nazi party and
46:43
Hitler and the brown shirts and all that, if they just stood up and said no, as opposed
46:49
to just acquiescing or to silently taking it or whatever, these people weren't putting
46:54
up swastikas inside their churches necessarily, they were just allowing, "Yeah, go ahead and
46:58
play through."
46:59
It was kind of their attitude.
47:00
Yeah, Romans 13, like, "Yeah, y'all, we will bow to you as our magistrates."
47:05
If a small number had actually flipped and been against them, there's no rise of the
47:10
Third Reich, there is no Holocaust, there is no World War II.
47:14
We're talking about tens of millions of people would not have died.
47:19
Now, you could say, "Well, if that didn't happen, then it would have happened here with
47:22
this group in that group, maybe, but we would need a parallel universe by which to differentiate
47:26
and find that."
47:28
That's the big issue that people don't understand.
47:31
Is there like, "I'm just going to let people push on me.
47:33
It's no big deal.
47:34
We'll let somebody else fight that fight."
47:36
You have no idea because you made the point earlier, Zach, our AD years is just a blip
47:41
on the radar.
47:42
The 20th century, though, until history ends, that is a time period that we will be able
47:49
to look back on and say, "At no point in history, did more people die because of atheistic
47:54
regimes than in the 20th century in the world."
47:58
That's not just a blip, and it was because a bunch of individuals decided, "This isn't
48:02
worth it.
48:03
This isn't the hill to die on.
48:04
I don't want to seem unwindsome.
48:06
I don't want to seem any of those types of things.
48:08
I'm just going to go along to get along.
48:10
I want to be known for what I'm for, not what I'm against," and then look what happened.
48:14
It comes out to a murderous end.
48:17
Yeah, that's a difficult place because I think all things happen to God's glory and history
48:23
bends to God's will and what was meant for evil to quote Joseph from Genesis.
48:30
God meant for good, but I think there's a lot of truth to that.
48:36
I think we live in a time where we can act that out and act that faith out.
48:42
I mean, Esther, again, I think Esther is a great example.
48:47
I think she saved thousands of Jewish people from death because she was obedient to calling.
48:53
Who knows?
48:54
Maybe if she said no, a bunch of them would have died.
48:55
It would have been to God's glory for sure, but she acted in her time that God had called
49:00
and ordained for her to do.
49:03
Are we being obedient to that now, just as the pastors in Germany were being disobedient?
49:10
We're called to have faith and have some inner peace and trust and that sort of thing.
49:19
That's absolutely the case.
49:20
The other thing I think about is, I heard a quote the other day, and it's by Trudeau,
49:24
which is not my favorite source, Pierre or Justin, but it's true.
49:30
He made it, and it's not exactly right, but he said, "Things have never moved as fast as
49:37
they are today, and they'll never be this slow again."
49:41
If you think about the 20th century, you talked about how horrific many things were, and they're
49:46
good things too, but they happened at a little slower pace.
49:48
Today, it's even more imperative that we have to be plugged in and paying attention and
49:53
intentional.
49:54
Trusting, but engaged because things are happening at a very rapid clip.
49:58
What I remind people of all the time is five years ago, so we'll say this, 10 years ago,
50:05
the gay marriage across the entire United States seemed crazy.
50:08
I think what Bergfeld was, 2015, less than 10 years ago.
50:13
Five years ago, the idea that we would be, there would be people advocating for children
50:18
to be put on purity blockers and to have their genitalia's altered or cut off or whatever.
50:25
What that's crazy.
50:26
I remember saying several years ago, I started talking to people, I was like, "Guys, pedophilia
50:31
is next.
50:32
It will normalize pedophilia because, again, if you are 10 years old and you can choose
50:36
your gender, why can you not choose your sexual partner?
50:39
If I can identify as something that I am biologically not, why can I not identify by a different
50:44
biological clock?
50:45
As a 37-year-old man, why can't I identify as a 13-year-old so that I can enter into
50:49
a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old?
50:51
Again, you have to extrapolate out the worldview to its logical end."
50:55
And people are like, "Oh, that's great, Kyle."
50:57
Now, I know you say some crazy stuff on your show, but, dude, come on.
51:00
It's like, "What else do you need to see?
51:03
You think this train stops?"
51:04
Isn't that being wise of servants?
51:07
You would think so.
51:08
You don't like that.
51:09
That's a call to understand how the world works and understand how Satan does things
51:13
and logically take out that argument to its conclusion.
51:18
Like you're saying there, if kids can consent to changing their gender, let's flush that
51:26
out fully.
51:28
Let's think about this critically and put some categories on things.
51:34
And don't be dumb.
51:35
R.C. Sproul says, "You don't have to lose your intellect to be a Christian, but you
51:38
do have to lose your pride."
51:40
So we can be smart, and we can be intellectual, and we can understand what these things logical
51:46
conclusions end at.
51:48
And I think, to your point, we have to understand where that goes.
51:51
Be wise of servants.
51:52
And part of it is that Christians would much rather cover their eyes and plug their ears
51:57
and not have to deal with this.
51:59
And this is proven by the fact that I give these abortion talks, and it makes people
52:03
really uncomfortable.
52:04
And it's like, why?
52:06
I'm equipping you with the tools that you need in this battle, with the weapons that
52:10
you need for this fight.
52:11
I'm not equipping you with, here's the one stat you can throw in that pro-abortion person's
52:15
face to dunk on the libs.
52:17
That's not what I'm doing.
52:18
I want you to, in a loving way, push back against their hateful, murderous ideology,
52:23
right?
52:24
So, you're not having to peel yourself off of them after you've bludgeoned them into
52:28
the ground.
52:29
I'm giving you a different option where you can use your words to potentially win them
52:32
over to the moral position.
52:34
But Christians are not prepared for the fight.
52:37
They don't have an apologia or apology for their faith, much less being able to push
52:41
back against specific ideologies.
52:43
So if you're a Christian and you're not comfortable engaging in a discussion about abortion, or
52:49
how are you going to have a discussion about transgenderism?
52:51
And if you're not comfortable with that, how are you going to have a discussion about
52:55
pedophilia or polyamory or any of those types of things like, you're just not ready.
53:01
You're not equipped.
53:02
Yeah.
53:03
And you're saying, you know, things are moving faster and they'll never move slower.
53:07
Well, they're also coming earlier, you know, so when we think about our family and when
53:11
we think about our kids, like, I don't know how old you were whenever you got the birds
53:15
in the beast talk, if you even got it, you know, mine happened to come through my junior
53:19
high class, you know, science teacher was introducing me to that.
53:24
So I was at least 12, I guess, maybe 13, but now like your first exposure to pornography
53:31
for most boys is around the age of eight, right?
53:34
And if a kid doesn't know, I mean, my seven year old knows more, at least as many terms
53:41
as I know about all the cultural things that we've got going on.
53:44
And so she may have questions about them and not fully understand, but they're out there,
53:49
you know, and I can't even open up Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it without immediately
53:54
seeing things that, you know, push, push my button basically because they're just right
53:58
in my face.
53:59
That's hard.
54:00
I had to, for me specifically, it was fifth grade, I remember the conversations in the
54:05
school yard, but because of all of our friend groups that have children that are our age
54:09
or maybe kids that have just come from children that are our age, they warned us.
54:14
So then you have to think, well, I guess I need to have this discussion now in first
54:18
grade or second grade, but it doesn't it and it doesn't in there.
54:23
That's just a beginning.
54:24
That's just a start, right?
54:25
So then just any opportunity, I mean, these are all teachable moments.
54:29
So anytime a commercial come on comes on or there's a new Disney movie that has a gay
54:33
and lesbian, whatever, you know, now you have opportunities.
54:37
So it becomes this ongoing thing.
54:38
So just for anybody that's listening, it's not a one time thing, not a one time conversation,
54:43
but it's a, it's many small conversations you have just an ongoing open dialogue about
54:47
this sort of thing with your kids, because they're going to get exposed to it and they're
54:50
going to get exposed to it repeatedly.
54:53
And we don't need them being subject, well, they're going to be subject to it won't need
54:58
them to.
54:59
Oh, I don't know what the word is, but you know, when someone says it enough times, you
55:04
know, and with authority that it somehow is kind of perceived as being right, you know,
55:08
we don't need them to get dumbed down and start believing this crap.
55:12
And if you don't do it, the culture is fine to do it.
55:14
Absolutely.
55:15
The culture is not going to nudge you in a certain direction, it's going to force you
55:18
down a certain direction.
55:19
Our kids will be categorized, you get to choose by whom Steve Lawson says we are to be a ship
55:24
in the ocean, which is the world, but not let any water in.
55:28
And we're called to pull people out, call them out, dry them off.
55:32
Now you're in the boat, but the world, the world is coming for us.
55:36
You know, one of them is already interrupting, but one of the things that I would say to any
55:43
parent is either the privilege of being discipled and mentored by a person that has a desire
55:50
to do that.
55:51
And that had been discipled and whatnot.
55:54
But your discipleship starts at home, you know, it should be father and mother, discipling
55:58
their kids.
56:00
And there's nothing wrong with me getting that extra mentorship later on, but we can't
56:05
push off that sort of thing to our churches, to our youth pastors, to someone that may
56:11
or may not exist in the future that will pour into your child's life.
56:14
You need to be doing it.
56:15
And it is a difficult job, and you know, it talks about the workers are a few.
56:18
We don't need to be families that aren't working hard at categorizing our kids.
56:24
80% of the life questions from our house come like five minutes before you're supposed
56:29
to be asleep.
56:30
Yeah.
56:31
Make sure you're engaged the whole day, all the way to the former Sunday school teacher
56:36
tell me that bedtime, bedtime is the greatest thing.
56:41
And you can have as a parent because it really is an invitation to the window of your child's
56:46
soul.
56:47
Because that's like you said, that's when that stuff comes up because, you know, you're
56:50
a captive audience.
56:51
You're sitting there the days over and so like, yes, we should be, we should be prepared
56:54
and ready to speak to that.
56:56
Yeah.
56:57
And the other even just car rides in the, you know, with your son, you don't have to be
57:01
face to face looking each other eye to eye to have a conversation.
57:04
Just go, go to Lowe's together in the car, your side by side, or he's in the back seat
57:09
or whatever, and you're just, you can have a conversation just like that.
57:12
That's one thing that I've had to remind myself because as I've said before, my schedule
57:16
is so jam-packed and we don't have a lot of extra options locally here for childcare.
57:21
And so my wife and I don't get very much time to do the things that we need to do.
57:25
And so I try to squeeze every last second out of my day, wake up early, get my lift in
57:31
or my jujitsu in or my run in or whatever.
57:34
And then I just, I'm just squeezing things into every inch of every day.
57:37
So it's like, you know, I'm not just doing the dishes.
57:40
I'm doing the dishes while listening to a podcast.
57:42
I'm not just doing these.
57:43
I'm trying to like stack things up.
57:44
And so there have been a lot of times where I've rushed bedtime with, with James and it's
57:48
like, all right, quick book.
57:49
Let's read it.
57:50
All right.
57:51
Quick prayer.
57:52
All right.
57:53
See you later, man.
57:54
Don't get out of your bed.
57:55
Like, and then, you know, cause I got to go get work done, right?
57:56
Cause it's only another hour or two before I need to go to sleep.
57:57
And then they'd all starts over again.
57:59
Same thing in the car.
58:00
As you mentioned, Eric, there have been times where it's like, okay, kids in the car, but
58:03
podcast is going to gotta listen to these podcasts, got to get all this information, gotta keep
58:08
going.
58:09
And then it's just like, wait a minute, pause, turn it down.
58:10
James, you know, he's three.
58:11
So he's basically an ape at this point.
58:12
And so, but I at least try to have a conversation with him around just like, man, you know, what
58:15
was your favorite part of your day?
58:16
I don't know.
58:17
Hey, you know, you know, how did, what's your teacher's name?
58:20
I'll just kind of quiz him.
58:21
Dad, I'm a dinosaur.
58:22
And so these aren't like the most enthralling conversations for an adult that wants to have,
58:27
you know, serious, meaningful concepts, but it's like you're open.
58:30
You're keeping a door of communication open with your kid.
58:33
And so for you dad, Zach, I know you're really good about this, like taking that time before
58:37
bed to have those conversations, it's a daily deposit into the, you know, the bank account
58:42
of the kid to say, Hey, look, like I'm, I'm here for you.
58:45
These lines are communication are open.
58:47
And so when it's not just normal every day, Hey, what was your favorite part of your day?
58:50
But it's, Hey, dad, I'm really struggling.
58:52
They know that they can come to you.
58:53
So we got to get to the end here, but we have a couple of more verses.
58:57
So Eric, if you wouldn't mind closing us out with versus 40, 41 and 42.
59:01
Whoever receives you receives me and whoever receives me receives him, sent me the one who
59:08
receives a profit because he is a profit will receive the profits reward and the one who
59:13
receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous
59:17
person's reward.
59:19
And whoever gives one of these little ones, even a cup of cold water, because he is a
59:24
disciple, truly, I say to you, he will be by no means lose his reward.
59:30
So this gets into the discussion of rewards, I think, going to what you were talking a
59:33
little bit about earlier, Zach, and not necessarily like the rewards that will be stored up for
59:38
us in heaven.
59:39
But it's just basically talking about, you know, right treatment of particular people
59:43
in a particular group.
59:44
So y'all have any thoughts on those, those last few verses of Matthew 10?
59:47
Well, I think talking about Christ, kingship.
59:53
And we are sealed by the spirit, and there's this, there's this great picture of messengers
1:00:01
of the king who carry the king's messages sealed by his, or that carry his seal.
1:00:07
They are representative of him, they are, they are in, in lack of a better term, they
1:00:12
are him.
1:00:13
They, they proclaim his message, they carry his authority.
1:00:18
And so, I mean, I think he's talking about, if you receive these people, you are receiving
1:00:25
me, if you reject them, you're, you are rejecting me, because I am, I am giving them the authority
1:00:31
of the king, you should treat them as such.
1:00:33
That's what I got out of it anyway.
1:00:37
Did matches slam at home here at the end?
1:00:40
No one has any other thoughts?
1:00:41
That's pretty good.
1:00:42
Eric, Zach, I just, you know, I think the only thing I just think about opportunities
1:00:48
for hospitality and bringing people in to your home is, I think it's very important.
1:00:57
And so just being able to, to do that for folks is great, you know, and as far as rewards
1:01:06
go, I mean, we, kids and I have had discussions about rewards and interesting, you know, it's
1:01:12
like, it's, I guess the Bible says that we, we receive rewards in heaven.
1:01:17
I don't, I don't, you guys may have different thoughts on that, but I feel like the rewards
1:01:22
we receive are like crowns that then we lay down at the feet of Jesus, if I remember.
1:01:27
And so it's almost like we give up what we have, you know, but, but, and so I never want
1:01:33
to get in the mode of somehow like, I'm working for reward.
1:01:36
I'm just working to glorify God and it's kingdom, and that's the most important thing.
1:01:41
So, Zach, anything else before we leave it?
1:01:45
No, this just says, you know, we can be a blessing to others and not everyone will reject
1:01:50
our witness.
1:01:51
Some will welcome us and receive a blessing.
1:01:53
After all, we are the ambassadors of the king.
1:01:55
Our king will make sure we are rewarded for what we do.
1:01:58
When people receive us, they welcome the king, or we are his representatives.
1:02:03
Read 2 Samuel 10, for an example of what happens when people mistreat the own boys of the king.
1:02:09
So I think it's just a little bit of a, it's important to think, you know, be engaged,
1:02:14
see how you can help.
1:02:16
And it also says that we should be the envoy going out, you know, and just because your
1:02:23
extension of grace or hospitality has been rejected doesn't mean you shouldn't have offered
1:02:27
it from, from the get go.
1:02:28
So that's something to keep in mind as well.
1:02:30
But guys, there's more to be said, but we're going to leave it there in terms of our discussion
1:02:33
of Matthew 10.
1:02:34
Come back here next week where we are going to dig into Matthew 11.
1:02:37
So make sure you're read through Matthew 11 so that you can be prepared for that discussion.
1:02:41
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
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1:02:49
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1:02:57
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