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1:18
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:29
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:32
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:35
by digging into God's word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:38
us.
1:39
That's Adam, that's Zach.
1:40
Zach, you are officially fired from time or duty because we literally just talked about
1:43
it, and you didn't hit the button, "fire for life," you're out of here.
1:45
And guys, we're not going to have too many fun games here at the beginning because we
1:48
are going to be covering, for the first time in Forging Table history, three chapters.
1:51
So last week, we had this first time ever, we've done two chapters when we covered five
1:55
and six, but now we're going to be hitting Genesis 7, 8, 9, so we kind of set up the
2:00
flood last week.
2:01
Now, we're getting full on into the flood.
2:02
So Adam, how about you start us off, Genesis 7, just read the first five verses, please.
2:06
Genesis 7, "The Lord then said to Noah, 'Go into the ark, you and your whole family,' because
2:11
I have found you righteous in this generation.
2:15
Speak with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male in its mate, and one
2:21
pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male in its mate, and also seven pairs of every
2:27
kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
2:34
Seven days from now, I will send rain on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights, and I will
2:39
wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.
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Noah did all that the Lord commanded him."
2:46
So, we've got the birds here, so clean animals and birds would be used for sacrifice and for
2:50
food, but I thought it was interesting here in verse 4 that even with all the forewarning,
2:56
we got God giving him another seven days warning, like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, build this
3:00
boat."
3:01
Also, we're going to do another seven days, in seven days I'm going to do a thing, all
3:05
right?
3:06
And so, you can read that a lot of different ways, but it shows that there's still patience
3:09
in grace in God's countenance for humanity of like, "Hey, given him an additional seven
3:15
days of preparation before literally the earth is destroyed."
3:18
Did anybody else remember that it was seven pairs of clean animals and then only two of
3:24
unclean?
3:25
Anybody catch that?
3:26
Seven pairs.
3:27
It says, "Seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male in its mate."
3:33
And a pair of animals that are not clean.
3:35
Right, I have a theory that I have not read this before and why that is, but what about
3:40
provisions for all of them?
3:42
What about food and substance?
3:44
You know, they're on the ark for almost a year.
3:48
Did they eat any of these animals, you think?
3:50
Also, going back to Genesis 6, verse 21, "Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten
3:54
and store it up and it shall serve as food for you and for them," so we don't get any
3:58
indication here that because if they ate anything that wasn't birds on the ark, then
4:05
that wipes out a species or a phylum or whatever we were saying.
4:08
It doesn't, if there's seven pairs of them.
4:10
Right, so I'm saying anything other than birds.
4:12
So you're saying do you think they may have eaten some of the birds?
4:14
No, I think that they were vegetarians for a year is pretty much what I would gather.
4:20
Well, doesn't it?
4:22
All the animals are the humans.
4:23
Oh, I'm saying humans, humans were.
4:26
Yeah, I don't know.
4:27
And animals.
4:28
So you're talking about the carnivores.
4:29
Because it says they took seven pairs of clean animals, of which clean animals are what
4:33
they would typically eat, you would not eat the unclean animals.
4:36
So why would you take six extra pairs of the clean?
4:39
But they're making provisions, I mean, they were making provisions, I think, for the animals
4:43
that also would be meat-eating animals.
4:45
So I think that they would be making provisions for those prior to, you know, so yeah, I'm
4:51
not giving them a live animal maybe, but I am giving them, like, here's this preserved
4:55
meat.
4:56
Aren't we going to read about this later?
4:58
Because maybe I'm way off here, but I thought we were all vegetarians until they land and
5:03
God says, now you can eat animals, but you can't eat their blood and animals are going
5:07
to fear you.
5:08
I mean, at one point, I'm sitting there thinking, are all these barbarians that are evil continually
5:12
just vegetarians, which is kind of funny to think about?
5:16
But are we saying that we think at this point that they're eating flesh?
5:20
Because my understanding was that hasn't occurred yet.
5:24
I had not considered that.
5:25
Now, what you're referring to is in nine, verse three, every moving thing that lives
5:32
shall be food for you.
5:34
And as I give you the green plants, I give you everything, but you shall not eat flesh
5:40
with its life.
5:41
That is its blood.
5:42
And so that gets into the Levitical, the dietary restrictions and things like that.
5:48
But I don't know that that necessarily says that there was no eating of animals before
5:53
then.
5:54
Yeah, I don't know.
5:56
I read a couple of different versions and it seemed to indicate.
5:59
Maybe.
6:00
Vegetarian.
6:01
Maybe not.
6:02
Maybe not among Noah and his family.
6:05
I mean, maybe under everyone else, maybe they were eating meat.
6:08
Bloody raw meat.
6:09
Mm hmm.
6:10
Good.
6:11
No reason not to at any point, does it say that Noah was to make sacrifices while they
6:16
were on the arc?
6:17
Because that could be made one as soon as they got off.
6:19
Yes.
6:20
And they got off.
6:21
Yeah.
6:22
So that could have been preparatory for the the eventual sacrifice after what 378 days
6:25
or whatever, however long they were hanging out on the boat.
6:28
Okay, well, hey, let's keep this going, let's actually get into the actual flood.
6:31
So Zach, your best big boy voice, if you can do verses six through 24, so finish up Genesis
6:38
seven.
6:39
You know, they were clothing themselves, meaning they were, so they were killing things.
6:47
Well, so initially they didn't, Adam and Eve didn't kill.
6:50
God provided.
6:51
Agreed.
6:52
But then there was all this lineage between that point and this point, right?
6:55
And they're not walking around naked with fig leaves.
6:57
So I assume they're killing things to clothe themselves and likely that leads to consumption.
7:02
I don't know.
7:03
But I haven't found it, but I think, I think they had to have been used for some purpose.
7:07
I don't know if it was for consumption or like I didn't consider clothing or for some
7:11
of the other animals, but they, they took seven pairs of clean for some reason.
7:17
Yeah.
7:18
Why would you need those extra six pairs?
7:19
Because one also, if for the, if for the unclean animals, two was enough.
7:23
Why for the clean do you need 14?
7:26
It's not to propagate the species after they land.
7:28
Well, and also on the food thing, like why would the human body be able to break down
7:33
the nutrition of meat if it were not, if we were not meant to have me?
7:37
Because I've had people say, Hey, look, if you go back to the garden, we were never
7:40
meant to consume animals.
7:41
It's like, well, they're okay, we can't eat wood and sustain off of like wood, but there
7:46
are animals that can eat wood or like what, what do the panda bears eat, like a bamboo
7:50
or whatever?
7:51
Like we can't, you know, subsist on bamboo.
7:53
So why would we now like, was that another miracle?
7:56
Like we didn't have the bellies that could process meat and then all of a sudden, you
7:59
know, God snaps his fingers and humanoids or, you know, homo sapiens are able to process
8:04
meat.
8:05
And we're all sun carnivorous.
8:07
I always, I always pictured Cain as a meat eater.
8:09
Maybe, maybe he wasn't.
8:10
I don't know why, but in my head, I'd always assume like he was kind of a barbarian.
8:13
He's jerky as he's murdering people.
8:14
Exactly.
8:15
Yeah.
8:16
Yeah.
8:17
I don't know.
8:18
I mean, maybe there's provision for that because afterwards they do have to repopulate.
8:20
And it also clearly states that after this point, that's when animals fear human beings
8:24
and prior to that, it was different.
8:26
So there are a lot of things that were different.
8:27
My main, my main point is that for clean, there's seven for unclean, there's two.
8:32
So if there's, if there's a, if there's two pigs on the boat and those two pigs are the
8:37
unclean pigs and that is able to continue the pig line after this is over, you don't
8:42
need seven, you don't need seven cleanables, those, those additional are for some other
8:47
purpose.
8:48
I won't sacrifice right out there.
8:49
Is this the first mention of a clean animal in scripture?
8:55
Because I can't think of the first few chapters.
8:58
I don't know that there was a delineation.
8:59
There was a talk about that.
9:01
There's talk about the naming of the animals, right?
9:03
There wasn't a delineation of clean versus unclean.
9:06
And so the other thing I was starting to think about is like, okay, well, what sort of cadence
9:11
of, you know, we have seen animal sacrifice in the Bible prior to this with, because didn't
9:20
Cain offer a sacrifice to God, but it was, I'm not, I'm not pleasing and not as best.
9:26
So, and I think that was an animal because he was a, he was a shepherd and okay.
9:30
So anyways, I started thinking like, okay, well, maybe this seven are there because there's
9:37
some sort of regular cadence for sacrifice related to those clean animals that Noah was
9:43
to keep while he was on the ark.
9:44
Well, Genesis four, we, we see Abel brought the first born of his flock.
9:49
This is verse four, uh, another fat portion of the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering.
9:53
But for Cain and his offering, he had no regard.
9:56
And so there's no description because, uh, Cain wasn't working with animals.
10:00
Abel was right.
10:01
Okay.
10:02
Sorry.
10:03
And so yeah, cause Cain, Cain was a worker of the ground.
10:04
So he would have brought some sort of grain or vegetable or something like that.
10:08
And so, um, yeah, so even from the beginning, we see that God is, you know, preferential
10:13
towards people that eat meat.
10:14
So guys, if you're vegans or vegetarians out there, you want to be like, Hey, like, let's
10:18
just, let's just start there, but I do think the other thing that's kind of interesting
10:22
there as far as the seven number, uh, you know, being the perfect number, but also just
10:27
this concept of that shedding of blood requires, you know, that essentially the cleansing of
10:33
sin requires the shedding of blood.
10:35
And God just met it out the wrath of on everyone, met it out as wrath with the flood on everyone.
10:41
And he's got these seven animals that are clean on board.
10:44
Uh, it's not, it does not say that no one in his family were seamless.
10:48
Oh no, it says they were blameless though, blameless, but not seamless.
10:53
Well, that's when we get back to a discussion about what was it, uh, uh, Elijah and he,
11:00
knock Enoch Enoch in, um, Enoch was described as walking, so he's walking with God, but
11:07
then you have Noah was described as blameless, but we neither one of them could be described
11:12
as sinless, but why categorically did Enoch and Elijah not Elijah not have to experience
11:18
earthly death?
11:19
Why were they just taken up?
11:21
Well, guys, 10 minutes in and we are five verses into three chapters, but yeah, keep this
11:27
going.
11:28
Let me move forward, but have we considered that maybe Noah was a trophy hunter and he
11:31
needed these animals so that he could put them on the wall and admire them while they're
11:37
on the boat?
11:38
Is that why your office is the way that it is?
11:39
Is that why maybe maybe he's just like me and he's like, that one's not big enough.
11:43
I need another one with a bigger rack right next, I can't get from the doorway to your
11:47
office to your desk chair without bumping into a black bear and like, yeah, it's a bit
11:53
of an issue.
11:54
All right.
11:55
Let's keep this going.
11:56
You want to read verses six through 24?
11:59
Okay, good.
12:00
Six through 24.
12:01
Yeah.
12:02
Read through the end of the verse or into chapter seven, please.
12:04
Noah was 600 years old when the flood of waters came upon the earth and Noah and his sons
12:08
and his wife and his sons wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the
12:12
flood of clean animals and of animals that are not clean and of birds and of everything
12:17
that creeps on the ground to and to male and female into the ark with Noah as God had commanded
12:24
Noah.
12:25
And after seven days, the waters of the flood came upon the earth in the sixth hundredth
12:31
year of Noah's life in the second month on the 17th day of the month.
12:37
On that day, all of the fountains of the great deep burst forth and the windows of the heavens
12:41
were opened and the rain fell upon the earth 40 days and 40 nights.
12:45
On the very same day, Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Jeffeth and Noah's wife and the three
12:51
wives of his sons with him entered the ark, they and every beast according to its kind
12:57
in all livestock according to their kind and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth
13:01
according to its kind and every bird according to its kind and every wing creature.
13:05
They went into the ark with Noah two and two of all flesh in which there was the breath
13:10
of life and those that entered male and female of all flesh went in as God had commanded him
13:16
and the Lord shut him in.
13:19
The flood continued 40 days on earth and the waters increased and bore up the ark and it
13:25
rose high above the earth.
13:27
The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth and the ark floated on the face
13:31
of the waters and the waters prevailed so mildly on the earth that all the high mountains under
13:36
the whole heaven were covered.
13:38
The waters prevailed above the mountains covering them 15 qubits deep and all flesh died that
13:44
moved on the earth, birds livestock beast, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth
13:50
and all mankind.
13:52
Everything on the dry land and whose nostrils was the breath of life died.
13:58
He blotted out everything that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping
14:03
things and birds of the heavens.
14:05
They were blotted out from the earth.
14:07
Only Noah was left and those who were with him in the ark and the waters prevailed on
14:12
earth on the earth for 150 days.
14:15
Considering our discussion that we had before we started recording this, I may have made
14:19
a mistake saying we're going to do chapters 7, 8 and 9 but we're going to do what we can
14:23
here because obviously this is the flood.
14:26
There's a lot that could be discussed here and categorically there's a lot of different
14:30
ways to go.
14:32
Is the description of the flood literal or non-literal?
14:35
That's one.
14:37
How does this relate to the other epic stories of cataclysmic worldwide floods that we see
14:43
across multiple cultures, across multiple times, epic of Gilgamesh, those types of things and
14:49
then how does that affect timelines of how we discover things because people will talk
14:52
about the epic of Gilgamesh being hundreds of years predating the first description of
14:59
Genesis but also inherent in that we're going on estimated timelines of when these things
15:04
were written down and on what particular tablets because I think the epic of Gilgamesh was
15:08
discovered and written down on tablets right stone tablets and so there's a lot of interesting
15:14
things about the flood maybe just preemptively to a preempt our discussion of the flood.
15:21
Are we all in agreement and if we're not then let's start there.
15:24
Are we all in agreement that how we view the flood does not affect the salvific nature
15:30
of the understanding of the gospel meaning that in order for us to have salvation we need
15:34
to put our faith in the propitiation of our sin debt and sacrifice of Jesus on the cross
15:37
and you know repent and be baptized like are we all on the same page there or is our understanding
15:43
of the flood tied directly to whether or not we can be saved.
15:46
No I don't think it's a salvation issue.
15:48
Non-selfific.
15:49
Agree.
15:50
Non-selfific.
15:51
Non-selfific.
15:52
Why the hesitation?
15:53
Well because I'm a non-selfific as well but I'm like without hesitation so you hesitate
15:59
a little bit.
16:00
I would say one thing when I got to the point studying the flood where I just kind of came
16:04
to a conclusion I believe I have to embrace that there's some element of miracle for this
16:08
to have occurred that I can't scientifically understand.
16:11
Maybe somebody can I can't but what it does show is the seriousness of sin and how God
16:19
responds to that which has a salvific component to it sort of so sin warning consequence and
16:26
then grace is kind of what's followed in that and this was you know basically the largest
16:31
scale event that we've read in the Bible until the next one that's coming because it
16:35
was the entire earth of God literally wiping everything out because sin is so serious and
16:42
so embracing that reality is really fascinating and what that kind of led me down a very short
16:48
version is just how critical moral agency is and sort of the fundamental reality that
16:57
we live in like God is so clear that the way that you behave morally is extremely important
17:05
to the point that it has these consequences in real life and real world and you could you
17:10
could extrapolate that from your leadership in the household and the ripples through your
17:14
community and society but one little thing I did that I thought was kind of interesting
17:19
is I had to pull some information through time and if you take this example of sin warning
17:26
consequence and grace you have the fall right which is like as an example disobedience by
17:31
eating the fruit God commands Adam and Eve not to eat expulsion from Eden and the introduction
17:36
of death and then grace through the promise of redemption well that same thing goes all
17:41
the way through the flood it goes through Sodom and Gomorrah it goes through Pharaoh it goes
17:46
through Israel and the wilderness the kingdom of Israel and Judah Peter's denial and then
17:50
eventually to the cross of Christ and in every one of those examples as you guys know it goes
17:57
through the consequence which the person that had the bad behavior got the consequence until
18:03
you get to Christ and obviously it's you know the humanities sin John the Baptist and Jesus
18:09
warned about this Jesus takes humanity's punishment on himself and then there's universal grace
18:15
and salvation for all the believe as a result so the one thing I would just say from the
18:19
flood story like I talked to you about the last episode is just for me deepening that
18:25
understanding of how serious sin is because I do believe this happened in reality in the
18:30
past in some way and God was so serious about it that he killed literally everything except
18:34
for this family which comes back to how important it is for you to lead your family at home.
18:41
So with all that in mind I would say that we would for the most part agree agree with
18:44
that summary and that narrative that you went into then we get into the literal I didn't
18:52
mean say that but like the discussion of whether this was literal or mythological whether that's
18:57
even important which we've already kind of discussed but then I mean you guys are discussing
19:00
a little bit and Adam I you know you kind of dug into the epic of Gilgamesh and like how
19:05
that relates to all this and guys YouTube and Google and chat GBT and like you started
19:10
digging into flood myths and I use the term myth not meaning like oh it definitely didn't
19:14
happen like that's just a category of how things are written down and described but you
19:19
know obviously Christians you know see the Bible as you know the actual inerrant word
19:25
of God and so you have to take the biblical account of the flood seriously but then they
19:29
just automatically say well the epic of Gilgamesh has to just be mythology at that point but
19:34
Adam go ahead and kind of give us a sense of what what you went down so so when I looked
19:37
into the epic of Gilgamesh some of the interesting things about the similarities with Noah's
19:41
ark is there's a divine warning of a coming flood there's instructions to build an ark
19:46
there's preservation of life family and animals sending out of birds both the dove and the
19:52
raven to check for dry land and the ark resting on a mountain after the flood there's also
19:57
another myth called the Acadian under Acadian mythology which is a Babylonian tale same
20:03
thing it also has a divine warning of the flood instructions for building a boat preservation
20:07
of life and a sacrifice after the flood there's multiple other stories we were talking about
20:13
even native native american stories yeah and so when you get j gones just give that list
20:18
real quick that you gave and then Adam keep your thoughts so it's it spans the world here
20:22
so we'll start in North America you have the Pawnee tribe the Incas and these are groups
20:26
of people that have some sort of a correct a flood myth that hits a lot of these different
20:29
things that Adam was just saying Pawnee tribe Incas Mayans Greeks the Norse the Sumerians
20:36
the Maasai which is in southern Africa the Altaik which is near China in Russia meazzo
20:42
near Korea and Japan Wunambai which is in the Australia on the Australian continent Hawaiian
20:47
and Fiji all of them have a flood story and most of them have a story of a favored family
20:54
who built a huge boat and brought with them animals so on on that note you know there's
20:59
so much consistency about this flood story something happened something happened you
21:04
would not have this level of consistency across so many cultures without coming to the conclusion
21:10
that's something catastrophic happened that multiple cultures decided to write about so
21:15
the question is how did it how did all the stories get so aligned how are they so consistent
21:21
why are there so many things in scripture that are replicated in the epic of Gilgamesh or in
21:26
the Acadian mythology so it starts taking you down the road of which one was written first
21:31
which one came first because it would be difficult for all of them to be so similar in if they
21:39
didn't somehow share knowledge with each other so something to be aware of as we look at this
21:43
is what we start looking at the chronology based on today's knowledge and today's thought
21:48
right now most people attribute the biblical account somewhere around 1500 to 1600 BC from
21:54
what I can tell the epic of Gilgamesh appears to be earlier than that at 2100 BC but let's talk
22:01
about that for a second even and that's based on all the information that I read and that's based
22:07
on what we have now we don't know if there's other tablets out there that we don't have yet
22:12
that we don't know if there were tablets before this this has just happened to be what we found
22:16
there was one large tablet that had the epic of Gilgamesh in dated approximately 2100 BC
22:22
one other important thing that I'll mention is we didn't have anything in writing into the
22:28
Sumerians figured it out themselves in around 2100 BC and then that slowly started making
22:33
its way across the continent and then eventually we started writing Genesis and some other things
22:38
before that the Jews had a significant oral tradition oral tradition was a big thing there
22:45
so they didn't need the right the written word because oral was just as good as written word then
22:50
so an argument could be made that if if Genesis was really the first the the first account of the
22:57
flood and the true account of the flood for many many many years before the epic of Gilgamesh was
23:03
written it could have been an oral tradition tradition from the Jews that moved its way east
23:09
towards Samaria the Sumerians listened to it the Sumerians heard it the Sumerians happened to
23:14
be the first one to write it down but they weren't the first ones that came up with the idea there's
23:18
no way to know definitively that I'm aware of but it logically points to how that could be explained
23:23
because it's something we need to be aware of if you go out and you start researching this most
23:28
of the information you're going to find seems to point that based on what we have now that the
23:32
epic of Gilgamesh was potentially written before Genesis was written down and so one thing that I
23:38
think is very interesting that I've even just while we were talking in between and just some
23:43
thoughts that like you you kind of help me coalesce us a little bit is even when we see the gospel
23:49
accounts there are corrupted gospel accounts right so I mean there's the gospel of Thomas gospel
23:54
of Philip gospel Mary gospel of Judas there's some that have been attributed to Matthias and
23:58
Bartholomew and different people like that and these are non canonical gospels for some reason or
24:04
another and it would make sense that they are corrupted accounts and so it would also make sense
24:08
that there could be other accounts of the flood story that significantly predate the writing down
24:15
of the Genesis accounts to a certain group of people that was an oral culture for a long time
24:20
and then it becomes written down at some point but that the other things are just corrupted versions
24:25
of the same story you could also fast forward past the gospels to the invention of Islam
24:30
and you have you know what was it to where it's the sacrifice which son was taken up to be sacrificed
24:37
that that that breaks down to whether or not you believe in a Judeo-Christian ethic or an
24:42
Islamic ethic right and so I think that there's a difference to where it's like okay people have
24:47
their story but both stories can't be true right because this is saying it was this son
24:52
and this one saying it's the other son it can't be both right has to be one or the other there is
24:57
that aspect of it but I also would say like you know you start looking at some of the gospels and
25:01
you know you you see one story in certain facts and circumstances are presented in in like the book
25:06
of Matthew and then you look at the book of John and it's not all the same information and maybe
25:11
there's a some people might say it's an inconsistency but I think when you start talking about if
25:19
everything read word for word it would seem rehearsed it would be like okay we've all got together we're
25:27
gonna come to get the same story we're gonna all write it down we're gonna all make sure it matches
25:31
up word for word and there's a reason that whenever you give testimony in court if there's two people
25:38
who are saying the exact same thing it's less trusted by juries than it would be that if the
25:44
major facts and circumstances that are being said on the stand that they are those are the same
25:51
but there's details that are different right the minor details right and so when you look at certain
25:56
you look at fact patterns it's it's important that the fact that the large facts stay the same
26:04
but everybody be just through their own experiences or whatever they think they saw whatever what
26:09
they heard all of that's gonna have tiny tweaks and they're gonna be tiny details are gonna be
26:13
different so I say that basically to kind of highlight that there's these different cultures
26:18
that all have a flood story that's a major fact there's different cultures that all have a family
26:23
with animals who got on the boat that's a major fact but they have maybe the names are a little
26:27
different maybe you know there's a whole bunch of variations that could have occurred just based
26:32
upon that people's history and experience do you believe the bible's version of it is is true
26:36
yeah okay true meaning literal well just think about it think about it for a second you got to be
26:43
specific yeah because according to the bible the progression of events is that there was a flood
26:50
and then this family hit ground mm-hmm and then repopulated the earth mm-hmm we're gonna get to
26:55
the tower of babble here in a little bit mm-hmm right and they were basically defying God by
26:59
staying together in one cohesive group and God said nope I'm gonna have different languages and
27:03
I'm gonna I'm gonna disperse you mm-hmm and literally all the nations of the earth that exist today
27:08
came from this group so it's not like Indians were hanging out potentially in Oklahoma no
27:15
and the flood hit they just came from this original group so for me and that relates to pangea as well
27:20
which is a different thing I'm almost relieved that the bible supports this narrative oh yeah
27:26
regardless of when it happened and when it was written down because if if it if it said something
27:31
different that that would be illogical and not supportive you know what I mean I think earlier
27:36
you were you were talking about literal versus figurative and I might I'm trying not to put words
27:41
in your mouth but trying to get to the point of figuring out how could this much water
27:45
possibly be on it because we just read that it was 15 cubits higher than the highest mountain what
27:50
what is mountain average 23 000 feet so 15 cubits is 20 feet so we're talking 23 24 000 feet that's
27:59
four five miles depth where in the world do you come up with that much water so so what I wanted
28:04
to say earlier when I got to this point when we're trying to figure out was it literal or figurative
28:08
I would point to the fact that there are so many stories about this across so many different
28:14
cultures absolutely something happened so it's 29 000 feet by the way yes I think 9,000
28:20
to the point of Everest though that assumes Everest was there at the time of the flood so
28:24
but all of those people would have just been hearing the story from from Noah and their generations
28:32
behind them right because by definition the flood occurred before that so the whole point
28:38
is that the population that came after the flood is referencing stories inside of their
28:44
family tree all the way up to the the origin but who is writing the story though it's not Noah
28:49
Moses right so I mean according to right and so and so they literally could have been passing
28:56
this story down but it still would have been post Noah the story would have been but the
29:00
writing down of it would have been different so is that the primary concern like a skeptic
29:05
looks at this and just says whoever wrote Gilgamesh gave him this gave him the idea
29:10
and then that's what the skeptic would say that Genesis took took from the epic of Gilgamesh
29:16
to create to have some sort of a description of the flood story well there's two different
29:20
skeptics right there's one skeptic there's one skeptic that is did the flood happen yes or no
29:25
that's on the left hand on the right hand is which flood story is true yeah which one do we take I
29:30
feel reasonably confident that on the first one but clearly something happened there's too many
29:34
cultures too many too many writings clue you know something happened and to your point if
29:38
something happened it had to be miraculous because I don't think we could feasibly imagine how you
29:43
can have that much water over the face of the earth god moved god did something we have this
29:47
description as well and like we had this discussion when we got into dragons when we were talking
29:53
earlier in Genesis about all these different disparate cultures having depictions like carvings
29:58
into stone and drawings on caves of flying freaking lizards that breeds fire like the most terrifying
30:05
thing possible right it's like this enormous anaconda that breeds fire and has wings and so it's like
30:10
but then you will have people that will use the argument there it's like Kyle just because all
30:14
these people have depictions of it it doesn't mean that the animal actually existed it's like okay
30:18
well how do people that own different parts of the planet come up with the same idea of a mythical
30:22
animal when they didn't even have an understanding of what myth was all they saw was what was literally
30:27
happening and so they wanted they want to talk about that with dragons because we have no evidence
30:31
of dragons but then they don't want to say the same thing about all of the different combinations
30:35
and understandings of the the flood story and so and again then this breaks into because we were
30:41
not going to be able to get in Pangea we got too much ground to cover but I remember growing up in
30:44
southwest Oklahoma there's the Wichita Mountains which is cute if you've ever seen them because
30:48
they're like glorified hills and so if you can't traverse those you probably shouldn't even be
30:52
existing but I remember going down through the Wichita Mountains with the guide and saying well
30:57
actually however many millions of years ago this mountain range was higher than the Himalayas
31:01
and so okay well now we're like well crap okay we have this description of the water being above
31:07
the highest peak and we bolt us oh yeah you mean Everest well maybe not because it was the highest
31:13
that could have been done at that time but also when the water came up from the depths what did
31:18
that do to the Earth's crust and what did that do to the peaks of mountains right because if you're
31:23
having the waters being dispersed and tectonic plates moving to allow for the water to not only
31:28
come from above but also to come from below what would that have done to the peaks that would have
31:33
been above these tectonic plates and my brain literally just short circuited I don't know what
31:37
we're going to do from here right but like that's like that's part of part of this discussion as
31:41
well which gets into the it's fun to talk about and it's fun to think about but we can't really
31:46
know it and so if we're getting super hung up on this I think again I think this is this is
31:51
interesting but man this this becomes salvific for some people depending upon where they end up
31:55
landing like on what team you know what I mean yeah and I guess I would say and you know I know
32:00
we won't go down the path and that's fine but I do want to say there is a salvation message
32:04
within the story of Noah and the ark I think it's interesting that he builds this gigantic ship
32:12
500 500 feet and there's one door one door and it's not huge it's but there's a door there's one
32:22
door and then you start looking throughout scripture of other doors where the righteous were kept
32:30
inside that door and the wicked was kept outside and so you know you have the holy of holies in the
32:37
temple you know you have you know there was a curtain but it was still the only a very righteous
32:43
person could go inside the holy of holies Daniel inside the lions den you know going in locked in
32:49
but then you start looking at all the different times that Jesus refers to himself almost as a door
32:57
or makes reference to it I am the door John 10 9 I am the door if anyone anyone enters through me
33:05
he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture Matthew 7 7 ask and it will be given to
33:12
you seek and you will find knock and the door will be open to you revelation 320 here I am I stand
33:18
at the door and knock if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will come in and eat with
33:23
that person and they with me I just to me this it's so the to me the the door of the ark is literally
33:33
it points to Jesus and that it but Jesus turned it upside down essentially he's not keeping people
33:42
out he's letting people in yeah and and his parables you know he has some of the examples where
33:50
like the the door to the party is shut once it's shut you can't come in and then he literally
33:56
references Noah's time and people were eating and drinking until all the sudden they weren't I
34:01
mean there's I mean it's definitely a picture of of the gospel no question I guess the last the
34:06
last point just to go back to that for a second I mean I do agree I think ultimately from a flood
34:10
perspective there's got to be miraculous events the distinction between the windows of heaven being
34:16
open and rain is also interesting because I'm not sure they're the same thing it almost implies
34:22
like there may be a supernatural event of water coming from above and below it says that the earth
34:27
earth's crest opens up and literally there's I mean that's what I'm talking about with the
34:31
plate shifting and all that like what would that from below from below there's all can't like a
34:36
Russian ocean but I'm saying specifically from above it's talking about the windows of heaven
34:41
being open and then distinct from that it's also mentioning rain so it seems like there's this
34:46
enormous divine deluge that's happening and there's also likely a divine regression of all of this
34:54
water very quickly and wherever it came from and it doesn't seem to align with what we can measure
34:59
and understand today because it had to be fast and catastrophic because there were probably other
35:04
boats around that people couldn't go climb and get in those boats and be okay so the arc would have
35:08
been the only one that could have survived such a cataclysm so yeah to be prepped uh Jake if you
35:13
wouldn't mind because we can keep this exact thread going uh while also covering uh chapter eight so
35:18
if you'll just go ahead and read all of chapter eight and then we'll continue our discussion boy
35:22
but God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the
35:26
arc and God made a wind blow over the earth and the waters subsided the fountains of the deep and
35:32
the windows of the heavens were closed the rain from the heavens was restrained and the waters
35:36
receded from the earth continually at the end of 150 days the waters had abated in the seventh month
35:42
on the seventh day of the month the arc came to rest on the mountains of Ararat and the waters
35:47
continued to abate until the tenth of the month in the tenth month on the first day of the month
35:51
the tops of the mountains were seen at the end of 40 days Noah opened the window of the ark that
35:57
he had made and sent forth a raven it went to and fro until the waters were dried up from the earth
36:03
then he sent forth a dove from him to see if the waters have subsided from the face of the ground
36:08
but the found dove found no place to set her foot and she returned to him to the ark for the waters
36:14
were still on the face of the whole earth so he put out his hand and took her and brought her into
36:20
the ark with him he waited another seven days and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark and
36:24
the dove came back to him in the evening and behold and her mouth was a freshly plucked olive leaf
36:29
so Noah knew that the waters had subsided from the earth then he waited another seven days and
36:34
sent forth the dove and she did not return to him anymore in the 600 in first year in the first
36:41
month the first day of the month the waters were dried from off the earth and Noah removed the
36:47
covering of the ark and looked and behold the face of the ground was dry in the second month on the
36:53
27th day of the month the earth had dried out then god said to Noah go out from the ark you and your
36:59
wife and your sons and your son's wives with you bring out with you every living thing that is with
37:04
you of all flesh birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth that they may swarm
37:10
on the earth and be fruitful and multiply on the earth so Noah went out and his sons and his wife
37:16
and his sons wives with him every beast every creeping thing and every bird everything that moves
37:20
on the earth went out by families from the ark then Noah built an altar to the lord and took
37:27
some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar
37:32
and when the lord smelled the pleasing aroma the lord said in his heart I will never again curse the
37:37
ground because of man for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth neither will I ever
37:45
again strike down every living creature as I have done while the earth remains seed time and harvest
37:51
cold and heat summer and winter day and night shall not cease so we can just keep our discussion
37:56
going here because obviously you know we've talked about I mean these are literal time periods
38:00
being described here like okay on this day of this this far from this group and whatever
38:05
um and then if you look at it and you just kind of add up the days Noah and all what did you say
38:10
earlier because I the one I saw was 378 days is that three seventy one okay three seventy one so
38:16
we're looking at over a year in terms of modern years which again if you go back to our discussion
38:20
from Genesis one and you're talking about depends on what which way you're viewing time depends on
38:25
how how you view all this but let let's just keep the discussion going about Noah because you know
38:30
you know exactly what you were kind of talking about is or and all of us have talked about this
38:34
point is there is a through point to the narrative of humanity because there are certain times when
38:38
you're reading the Old Testament you're like what in the world does this have to do with Jesus because
38:41
how many people have told us every single thing in the Bible points back to the cross every single
38:46
thing well I guess you could say the empty tomb points back to the empty tomb and so like you can
38:51
read through the flood story and be like what in the world is this telling us but go back to what
38:55
I said at the end of last week's episode to where it's like the narrative of the no the no the Noah
39:00
flood story is that this is our nature our nature is to be violence our nature is to be Hamas like
39:06
those types of things but it's it's not nurture because you will have people who are atheistic now
39:11
that will say it's a nurture problem not a nature problem but we know different so
39:15
this is almost like a macro description of our sin nature and why that even leads to us needing
39:21
a Savior so let's just keep the discussion going on this before we get into that is there a risk in
39:27
talking about the mistakes between nature and nurture does it almost seem to absolve you of
39:31
responsibility in some way I think so I got I don't well the thing is is there there's nature and
39:36
nurture as a delineation but then there's here we go there's choice there's choice versus you know
39:44
dancing to our DNA nurture right well no nurture doesn't necessarily affect it can affect choice
39:50
but we ultimately have a search we have the ability to choose whether or not we do a thing because we
39:55
may be our nature or sorry our nurture may have pointed us in a particular direction towards a
40:00
particular particular deleterious behavior but we saw the choice whether or not to engage in that
40:04
behavior yeah I mean I get what you're saying the idea that I mean your nature or your nurture
40:11
may put you in situations so you know if you grow up in a certain area the choices you have to make
40:21
are going to be different than somebody who grows up in a different area still means that there's a
40:27
choice still means that you have to choose between right and wrong so moral agency some there we go
40:32
and so and again that does that get into the wider discussion of again we've had this discussion
40:39
at this table a lot of times about whether it's like okay are we are we wired in a way to where
40:45
we can't say no to the gospel right and this gets into the Calvinism no that that's what I'm bringing
40:50
up like that's that's the cow like because you know if you're strict five point Calvinist it's like
40:55
no you were predestined before time to accept the except the gospel like which again brings up the
41:02
okay then we are just automatons and some people were chosen automatons and some people were non
41:06
chosen automatons which actually plays in to the dancing to our DNA discussion what's comes from
41:10
the the four horsemen of new atheism right and so it just gets muddled pretty quick I mean it seems
41:16
to me we've been through that multiple times but they're both true simultaneously in the Bible
41:21
explicitly says that there's going to be mystery and we're not going to understand all of it I mean
41:25
like just glancing at what Wiersby says here for just a second he's talking about the faith of Noah
41:30
which you see in action because he's obediently building and you know doing all these things
41:35
but that doesn't automatically imply that his family is going to be saved they also made the
41:41
decision to watch what was happening and then get onto the boat with him implying that they had
41:48
their own faith which was saving in its nature as well and so you know God didn't necessarily force
41:53
that but he pre understood it so yeah next that's okay we already got plenty of holes
42:00
yeah I for whatever reason I feel like we need to have some sort of a because you know there are
42:04
guys listening to this right now and I mean I've talked to guys recently that do exactly what we say
42:08
which is make sure you read this chapter before you listen to our discussion next week because I
42:13
don't want to color anyone's understanding of scripture based on our discussion because again
42:16
as I told all of you guys from the beginning exactly you you're you're the only og at the table but
42:21
from the beginning of the idea of the forging table is like this is not a performance right
42:25
this is not hey we are four theologians that have this all figured out now we're just going to kind
42:30
of like compare who has a better description of the thing we're figuring this out we're asking
42:35
questions we don't know we're all hooked up to the internet so we can like search and kind
42:38
of figure things out from here but if you had to in this moment right with no gradations I think
42:43
gradations are stupid it's black and white is Noah's version of the flood literally true as in it
42:50
happened like where where would you where would you stake your claim right now just to kind of give
42:54
everyone an idea of of where we're at Jay literally true literally true literally happened Adam
42:58
literally true literally true literally happens Zach same okay I'm the same as well
43:02
so I didn't know that was going to happen we didn't print I didn't know where you guys were
43:06
going to land but I do think that that is an encouraging note for guys listening or watching
43:10
this right now is all of us brought up different things that would be challenges to the point of
43:17
view that we actually hold which what that points to is intellectual honesty yeah because if you
43:22
hold to a position and when anyone starts challenging that position you just start screaming or going
43:27
la la la la la la la or like hitting a bullhorn or something like that you were expressing that
43:31
you are intellectually dishonest because you will you will not engage with content that is contrary
43:37
or that challenges your point of view and we've been just marinating in that for the last couple
43:42
of weeks and in between you know tapings of this you know we're we're sitting here being like well
43:47
I want to make sure but like this is where my faith would lead me so that's encouraging for
43:51
me at least yeah it's yeah I guess I would say it's one of those say I can't remember
43:55
who was debating Christopher Hitchens but they brought up the idea like do you ever doubt your
44:00
position as an atheist and he said no and the person who asked the question was literally like
44:08
see and I have wrestled with doubt over my over my spirituality my entire life which is why I have had
44:16
to ask myself questions about what I believe and then research and dig and read the scripture and
44:25
then read it again and then research and dig and the fact that you would not doubt anything it doesn't
44:33
mean that you've come this come to this conclusion intellectually it means that you've been propagandized
44:39
that essentially you've been told what to think told what to believe and you just believe it
44:45
that does not lead towards any sort of spiritual growth because all growth comes with that I don't
44:54
know how Hitchens went out I know that he recorded himself at the very end saying I am not going to
45:01
have a deathbed conversion if you've heard that it's wrong and so forth have no clue yeah but in my
45:06
experience um the worse and more challenging things get and you can just imagine yourself
45:14
degrading and questioning the less places you have to run and so where you end up is in some faith
45:21
position that you can't quite explain anyway because you'll find yourself praying to God and going back
45:26
to this example specifically one thing that came to mind is I don't believe that that Noah was in
45:33
discourse with God continuously or regularly I think that God was choosing when and how to engage
45:38
with him and then providing the resources and direction and he was having to walk by faith through the
45:44
circumstances and it was an extended period of time I mean think through how much he would have
45:51
been going through mentally and having to just walk through that faith position and and then how
45:56
long it took to to finally recede and waiting for the birds and all that sort of thing so I guess one
46:02
one conclusion I would draw just for myself is it's just another example of God may put you
46:08
through circumstances that are protracted and you you may find that you're in such a dark place that
46:14
you don't know where to go but when you're in that foxhole you'll find that you probably are
46:18
praying anyway yeah so it's really an interesting concept to think about but God's going to put
46:22
you through those circumstances you got to walk with him and then ultimately you know that worked
46:26
out for for sure let's keep that we got to keep this moving along so you can keep talking if you'd
46:30
like but you have to the words have to come out of your face are Genesis 9 verses 1 through 6 so
46:34
I just read oh I know I know but I wanted to I didn't want to interrupt you and then you know
46:38
pass along to somebody else and God bless Noah and his sons and said to them be fruitful and
46:42
multiply and fill the earth the fear of the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every
46:48
beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens upon everything that creeps on the ground
46:52
and all the fish of the sea into your hand they are delivered every morning every morning
47:01
everyone I'm sorry I'm just every moving thing that lives shall be food for you and as I gave you
47:07
the green plants I give you everything but you shall not eat flesh with its life that is that
47:13
its blood and for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning from every beast I will require it
47:19
and from man from his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man whoever sheds the
47:25
blood of man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man in his own image now I feel
47:31
bad for interrupting you do you remember what you were going to say before majoring well I was
47:34
going to say the flood story and you know the receding it makes me think of Job
47:39
Job got a flood of horrible things that happened to him lost his livelihood lost his livestock lost
47:49
his children ironically kept his wife I don't know if you guys have heard that whole thing
47:56
yeah did wife did not die wife stayed alive which just makes you wonder how awful she might have been
48:03
so but I think I think all of us could probably point to a life point to a point in our lives
48:11
where we just felt like we were just deluged with nothing but bad news and also to a point where we
48:20
had no other choice but to turn to God as you know and just cling to him and wait for the waters to
48:27
recede I think Job is a good example of that where it's just like he never abandoned God he always
48:34
was looking to him and praising him and going I'd you know he may not know why they're happening to him
48:39
but in the end he was rewarded even more than he ever thought he could be so it was God who restored
48:48
Job and isn't God who's going to restore you to right getting into this first part of Genesis 9
48:53
a lot of Christians I won't say a lot I have been made aware of Christians that are anti-death
49:00
penalty and when they say they're their anti-capital punishment and they have to explain their position
49:06
the only things that they can seem to come up with are arguments that are made by people that
49:10
were already anti to begin with and so they will make arguments like well it's not really a deterrent
49:14
anyway there's no evidence to say that it's a deterrent the death penalty is unjustly used
49:19
against people of color more than it's used against white people and they'll make all these arguments
49:24
that break down to you know somewhere between sociological and political but for Christians
49:29
we come back to to verse 6 of Genesis 9 whoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be
49:34
shed and for God made man in his own image and the thing is is when you ask somebody that is anti-capital
49:40
punishment and you say hey well why you know if somebody because again in this country we only
49:45
kill people that kill people with usually some extenuating circumstances like okay there was a
49:49
kidnapping and then a rape and then a murder or it's a murder of multiple people or something
49:53
like that but even then we don't really kill a whole lot of people in this country using capital
49:58
punishment and so it becomes unjust when those people are on death row for 20 30 40 years in some
50:04
cases being paid being kept alive by the by the taxpayer but the whole reason why this is a thing
50:10
is because we are image bearers of God because if I shoot you know a you know a noot or something
50:17
like that some random animal like again we have to give an account for how we've taken dominion
50:22
over creation and obviously like torturing animals it would not be a good thing that would be a
50:27
sinful thing but like you know a lion that takes out a zebra like that lion's not going to be put
50:32
on trial he's not going to be arrested for for taking them out but for humans there's a different
50:37
standard because of sentience and because of whose image we carry and so I don't know how
50:41
much y'all have ran into that because like I just grew up in a family where yeah the death penalty
50:45
is the thing like if you kill people we're going to kill you back but then all of a sudden you get
50:48
these like you know bleeding heart uh you know arguments from people as to why we shouldn't do
50:54
that and it just seems to run a run run a ground pretty easy I just avoid those people oh you just
51:00
keep those people out of your life entirely right that makes things easier i mean that's catholic
51:04
faith i'm keeping people out of your life no no no the anti-death penalty i mean the catholic faith
51:13
is anti-death penalty just for the whole sanctity of life argument i did not know that yes yeah the
51:21
difference being out of their history seems like that'd be kind of intuitive i know it would be
51:25
countering to whatever do you mean something in that uh yeah something around that 1500 time well you know catholics
51:34
the swords out of the water yeah catholics don't seem to take the bible seriously anyway so of course
51:38
they would kind of go through this part and not not really care but i guess um i mean i'm actually
51:44
one that's not in favor of the death penalty myself but that primarily relates just to the idea that
51:50
i don't know that i trust the government to met this out and actually do the right thing in all
51:55
cases i mean there's been i think kamala harris actually had something with that when she was ag
52:01
in california where she was holding out ex yeah totally gabber said it in the debate like there
52:06
was somebody on death row uh and harris literally withheld evidence that would have uh exonerated
52:16
thank you i was looking for the word exonerated them and i'm just go to me i'm just going okay
52:22
justice is the main point not conviction but also when you're dealing with humanity in this role
52:27
uh i don't know that uh just for the idea that somehow a conviction is going to be
52:35
favorable to you for your career and get you more power and more influence and more money
52:41
i think some people who are put in that position are not well intended uh so that's generally why i
52:49
am it's not that i'm over here going like well the bible is against the death penalty it's like
52:53
no it's pretty clear it's for it i just don't know that we're really good at it and so to be clear
52:58
you are pro capital punishment you just think we suck at it yeah i spank my kids right so
53:04
well that's horrible that's horrible not capital fine all right yeah you're not killing your kids
53:08
for the record guys that you have that lived right how many kids you down to now there's some
53:14
vipers and diapers man yeah but yeah that's the thing because then this also gets into because
53:19
so catholics will be like on the pro life debate and things like that and obviously catholics have
53:22
been incredible on the abortion debate and the most consistent of of any group probably arguably
53:27
there's ever been on on the pro abortion debate but to people that are uh that will say to a pro
53:32
lifer wait so your pro capital punishment though so you can't be pro life i was like are you saying
53:37
that in innocent baby inside the womb is the same as a capital murderer yeah because that that's
53:42
essentially what you're saying because that person that's inside the womb is not yet making
53:46
choices in the world right there because they are currently contained geographically inside
53:51
of the womb of their mother whereas somebody that is outside that is condemned to death that is
53:55
someone that is chosen to kill people because in this country and we don't kill people for
53:59
anything other than capital murder right like there's not capital rape there's not capital
54:03
grand theft auto or anything like that i think they just said how far have you gone down the rabbit
54:07
hole of our understanding of what life actually is no i haven't are you really going to pull that
54:14
out like at the very end of the day he better have three minutes okay exactly it really pulls
54:18
out what is life well hopefully you can tell us the next few minutes i'm gonna throw out some
54:23
resources so if you haven't seen it dr james tour is really fascinating guy from rice university
54:28
he's so and he's been in some of the taxes his books but i've listened to a lot of what he has to
54:33
say he so accomplishes a scientist that he's no longer worried about getting funding
54:37
so he's kind of above reproach and he is this extreme prolific scientist in the world of
54:44
nanotechnology think i have that right anyway he's going to bat with all the major scientist right
54:48
now about we don't understand what life is period literally we can't define it like nasa has some
54:54
definitions but when you see or think about seeing a person who has just passed away what left what's
55:02
no longer there and when you reverse that back to creation when you take two organic things
55:08
what caused that thing to be alive you know there was some some experiments where they thought
55:14
they replicated it but they haven't so the point being you could go down that it's pretty fascinating
55:18
john lennox is spending a lot of time in his new book 2084 the revised version which you all
55:22
ignore me about when i when i brought it up you should read it's amazing but they're talking
55:26
about the difference between what we're trying to create and ai versus what life actually is
55:31
and so it brings it all the way back to the point where it's it's literally something we don't
55:35
understand that comes from god the breath of life and it's and it's sacred well that actually that
55:41
actually does relate to what we even in genesis eight in verse one is talking about uh gosh let me
55:48
find it and god made wind blow over the earth and that's the ruach right that's the spirit and so
55:53
what was breathed into adam the the ruach like the the spirit like what was hovering over the deep
55:58
like it does get into that discussion as well um we are running short on time here so we are
56:03
gonna have to kind of keep going with all this but adam if you would read genesis nine seven through
56:08
seventeen yeah seven through seventeen genesis nine verses seven as for you be fruitful and
56:14
increase in number multiply on earth and increase upon it then god said to Noah and to his sons with
56:20
him i now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you and with every living
56:25
creature that was with you the birds the livestock all the wild animals all those that came out of
56:30
the ark with you every living creature on earth i establish my covenant with you never again will
56:36
all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood never again will there be a flood to destroy the
56:41
earth and god said this is the sign of the covenant i am making between you and every living creature
56:47
with you a covenant for all generations to come i have set my rainbow in the clouds and it will be
56:53
the sign of the covenant between me and the earth whenever i bring clouds over the earth and the
56:58
rainbow appears in the clouds i will remember my covenant between me and you and all living
57:03
creatures of every kind never again will waters become a flood to destroy all life whenever the
57:09
rainbow appears in the clouds i will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between god and
57:14
all living creatures of every kind on earth so god said to Noah this is the sign of the covenant
57:20
i have established between me and all life on the earth so that's the no way covenant uh that we see
57:25
that's the first covenant that god made with man and then we have the next ones that come up over
57:29
the Abrahamic covenant that we see in genesis 17 the priestly covenant in numbers 25 the devitic
57:35
covenant in second samuel 23 and then the new covenant in jeremy 32 one thing i wanted to point
57:39
out uh quickly on this uh before we wrap up our discussion of seven eight and nine with the ending
57:43
of nine is what was sent the rainbow okay the rainbow how many stripes does it have rueji biv
57:48
red orange yellow blue indigo wait green blue indigo violet um and then i've made this point
57:54
before but it's it's worth making again uh whatever god creates state and counterfeits and so when we
57:59
have the pride flag most people just say oh that's the rainbow flag no the pride flag has six stripes
58:04
on it okay not seven if you go back to the reason for it is because there was a lack of a certain
58:09
color dye when that particular flag was designed at the beginning i think it even had like eight
58:14
stripes at the beginning and never had seven and so that's an interesting thing that we see
58:18
and i think it's in Ezekiel somewhere i'd have to get the reference right but um we see descriptions
58:23
and depictions of god and in the heavenly places being surrounded by rainbows and so if you think
58:27
about it you know satan and you know a third of his legion were cast out of heaven and you know
58:33
in some way or form rule over earth and so what is satan surrounding himself with here other but
58:39
a counterfeit rainbow right so you have people that are waving the rainbow not the rainbow flag
58:43
but the pride flag or the pride progress flag or things like that and it's a it's a foul it's a false
58:48
uh hood it's a counterfeit um let's go ahead and finish up with the reading of genesis nine and
58:53
then we'll wrap up all of our commentary on these three chapters so zak if you will hit Noah's
58:59
descendants so go ahead and do 18 through the end of chapter nine which is verse 28
59:03
the sons of Noah who went forth from the ark were shem ham and jeffith ham was the father of Canaan
59:12
these three were the sons of Noah and from these people and from these the people of the whole
59:17
earth were dispersed Noah began to be a man of the soil and he planted a vineyard he drank of the
59:23
wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent and ham the father of Canaan saw the nakedness
59:29
of his father and told his two brothers outside then shem then shem and jeffith took a garment
59:36
laid it on both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father
59:42
their faces were turned backward and they did not see their father's nakedness when Noah awoke from
59:47
his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him he said cursed be Canaan a servant of servants
59:54
shall be his shall he be to his brothers he also said blessed be the lord the god of shem and let
1:00:01
Canaan be his servant may god enlarge jeffith and let him dwell on the tents of shem and let
1:00:06
Canaan be his servant after the flood Noah lived 350 years all the days of Noah were 950 years
1:00:13
and he died okay let's let's spike the football once and for all in this ham verse turkey debate
1:00:17
okay not only is ham unclean but it's also freakin gay because it's all it's all ham comes in
1:00:28
sees Noah goes hey guys hey guys come look at dad him he doesn't hey wait wait wait wait wait as a
1:00:35
card-carrying member of team ham i'm gonna make it worse i'm gonna take your argument and i'm
1:00:40
gonna make it worse their schools of thought that think that ham sodomized Noah that he didn't just
1:00:46
say hey come take a look but that he took advantage of his father's nakedness because when you get
1:00:51
in it was a verse 24 and when he saw what his youngest son had done to him that is an active
1:00:57
verb tense that is used so you don't do something to somebody by pointing at them and saying hey
1:01:02
everybody come and look but that something went a little bit further so when i was digging into
1:01:06
different commentaries there there are certain schools of thought to say it wasn't like hey everybody
1:01:10
come here because this is going to be really embarrassing when he sobers up but that he actually
1:01:13
sodomized him when he was drunk so that would be literally gay literal gayness in the anus
1:01:18
all the things uh sorry probably shouldn't have said that but here we're all at the end people
1:01:22
probably tuned us out at that point but yeah it gets worse but um you know what i'm still in team
1:01:26
ham not just not this version not capital hamp this is capital hamp right that's so it's just
1:01:32
different right you know right it's different it's different Zach yeah just the next time you take
1:01:37
a big juicy don't bite don't ruin it on me don't come on you know what you're gonna think about
1:01:43
i well now yeah so but good thing we don't have ham waiting for us downstairs d but any parting
1:01:49
thoughts on genesis seven eight nine it wasn't a bad uh you know going through three chapters of the
1:01:54
bible we probably could have i could have paced it a little bit better but closing thoughts don't
1:01:59
talk about pangia don't open up don't open up like big philosophical things i do want to say what's
1:02:03
our place in the universe yeah i do want to say like something interesting on the rainbow uh there
1:02:08
is a translation uh for that that actually translates to a war bow uh and it's interesting that the
1:02:17
lord's bow is now aimed at the heavens as an indicator of the covenant that essentially he's
1:02:22
literally set it down i saw that i saw that as well so it's no longer aimed at us it's aimed at the
1:02:28
heavens because he set it down but if you've ever accidentally shot and arrow into the air
1:02:32
i'm not going to say i've done it it does come down eventually it doesn't just keep going so
1:02:37
you're hoping it doesn't come down where it's uh not supposed to but any closing thoughts at him
1:02:40
no sir no Zach our guys will we're just kind of to leave it there but come back here next week
1:02:44
where we are going to dig into genesis 10 and 11 so we're going to kind of take it down just
1:02:48
a notch there only doing 10 and 11 so make sure you read both those and come prepared but before
1:02:52
we let you guys go we are going to do a quick resilience boost add on to life permission is
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equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience
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do not forget that we have a forging table starter set that we have through the crossway website
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show notes you can check all that out as well and then also the log us bible software several of us
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have have worked with that software before and it is the best bible software in existence but
1:03:18
don't use it at full price use that as a discount we do have a code that is in our show notes that
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you