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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 4 (Ep. 712)

February 2, 2025 1h 1m Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 4 (Ep. 712)
0:00 / 1h 1m
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive deep into Genesis 4, exploring the story of Cain and Abel. We discuss the significance of their sacrifices, the heart posture behind giving, and the consequences of sin as Cain's anger leads to the first murder.
Transcript
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0:50 This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
0:54 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:56 Let's get into it.
0:57 Welcome back to The Forging Table.
0:58 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:04 At The Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:07 by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along with that journey
1:10 with us.
1:11 That's Jake.
1:12 That's Ryan.
1:13 That's Eric guys.
1:14 We're digging in to chapter four of Genesis.
1:16 Now we have these last few weeks.
1:18 It has been quite, I just can't believe how much is in four chapters of the Bible, right?
1:26 And so, because you can go certain chapters of the Bible and it's just like, "Ah, it's
1:30 kind of hard to find some meeting."
1:31 Like Nehemiah 3 was one where we were all shocked by the end of Nehemiah 3 that we were
1:36 able to get through that with any type of discussion and we kind of had to cut the discussion
1:40 off because it was so robust, but there's so much here with all of these pieces of scripture.
1:45 But we're going to approach chapter four a little bit differently because I know we've
1:48 been switching off reading the whole chapter, then reading part of it.
1:50 We're going to go back to just reading part of it.
1:53 So we're going to kick off Cain and Abel and so Ryan, if you would read the first eight
1:57 verses of Genesis 4.
1:59 Well, I'm going to make sure I get this correctly.
2:02 Yeah, I wanted to, this is a test, okay?
2:04 So it's like right there in the middle so you can just transfer right to that next word.
2:08 Here you go.
2:09 Now Adam knew Eve his wife.
2:11 She conceived and bore Cain saying, "I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord and
2:16 again she bore his brother Abel."
2:18 Now Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain, a worker of the ground.
2:23 In the course of time, Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground
2:27 and Abel also brought of the first born of his flock and of their fat and portions.
2:35 And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard.
2:44 So Cain was very angry and his face fell.
2:47 The Lord said to Cain, "Why are you so angry and why has your face fallen?
2:52 If you do well, will you not be accepted and if you do not do well, sin is crouching
2:58 at the door.
2:59 It's desire, it's contrary to you, but you must rule over it."
3:03 Cain spoke to Abel as brother and when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his
3:08 brother Abel and killed him.
3:10 So that's the first murder and so there's so much here that we can get into as far as
3:16 a discussion, but I guess the first thing that we'll look at is there's a lot of comparison
3:21 between Cain and Abel and what their work was, kind of what they did for a living versus
3:26 how they were able to sacrifice, but there's no separation in terms of God, in terms of
3:32 the type of work that they were doing from which they made the sacrifice.
3:36 It was the posture of their heart as they were sacrificing.
3:39 So that's a very important key because again, there's a lot of new Christians or people
3:44 that are considering Christianity, maybe you're Christian curious at the moment and so you
3:48 read a story like this and you're like, "Oh, are there professions that are more godly
3:52 than other professions?"
3:53 But one thing you have to look at is Cain gave an offering and then Abel gave the first
4:00 born of his flock.
4:01 So he gave an ultimate offering and so the posture of his heart was what was basically
4:07 being discussed here.
4:08 So let's start the discussion there with just kind of the posture of your heart when you
4:11 are making sacrifices for God.
4:13 Well, Cain's sacrifice is rejected because it wasn't his best.
4:20 I think Abel gave his best and it was.
4:22 I mean, he's referencing the fat and calf that Abel gave.
4:31 He gave something more and I think sacrifice has to be costly for it to count.
4:36 I think when you start thinking, I actually had this discussion with my daughter yesterday,
4:40 but we've cheapened the word love so much in our society.
4:46 And so what does it mean to love?
4:50 Abel's displaying it real love here because he's giving his absolute best.
4:55 Love in a very real way is all about what you are willing to sacrifice for that person.
5:01 And Abel was willing to sacrifice much more than Cain was to God.
5:09 I think like it's not even his sacrifice that maybe that was half hearted, but it's his
5:15 response after, you know, like his brother had a, I mean, if I'm sacrificing some things,
5:21 if you're going to smell burnt fruit or you're going to smell burnt flesh, which one's going
5:26 to smell better?
5:29 The fat, the flesh, it's going to smell great.
5:31 It's like a barbecue.
5:32 You ever had a smoked pineapple?
5:33 That's what we talk about like with the sacrifice is like God loves the smell of that burnt
5:45 flesh and everything like that.
5:47 It's like it's appetizing.
5:48 And so, but the thing is is when God has regard for Abel's actual sacrifice and not Cain's,
5:55 Cain's heart is angry towards his brother and God for not liking what he had done rather
6:01 than saying, you know what?
6:02 This is what God likes.
6:03 I need to figure out what I need to do to make that better next time.
6:06 Maybe instead of burning fruit, I get my first harvest to my brother who gives me a spotless
6:13 calf.
6:14 Yeah, I was just thinking of the threat of the Bible and in synchre in these nine seven
6:18 and says God loves a cheerful giver, you know, not one that gives begrudgingly but gives
6:23 cheerfully.
6:26 So I'm just thinking here like the word that came to mind, words that came to mind was
6:30 duty and delight.
6:31 I don't think there's any problem with doing your duty, but there should be a delight in
6:36 what we do as well.
6:37 And I feel like almost I'm just imagining Cain like, well, this is what I have to do
6:41 because told me to do it.
6:43 So here you go and I'll do it, you know, whereas Abel, I think probably assuming came at it
6:49 with more of a delight.
6:50 I got enjoy doing this because this is what God has asked me to do.
6:53 When even perhaps Cain was making, Cain was withholding.
6:58 So perhaps he was like, I'll find I'll do it.
6:59 But also he may have been withholding, he's like, okay, I'll give some to you.
7:03 Now I did have a question to what Ryan was just talking about in verse three, an offering
7:07 of the fruit of the ground.
7:09 We're not talking about literal fruit though, right?
7:11 I think we're talking about he was like the fruits of his labor.
7:14 No, I think there's an actual difference between Cain being an actual farmer and his
7:19 brother enabled being a shepherd.
7:24 So I think I think Cain actually had like, I mean, it could have been fruit could have
7:28 been grain, it could have been something else, but it wasn't of animal flesh.
7:34 There's another interesting thing that I didn't, I hadn't heard before until I got into the
7:38 commentary for this.
7:40 They may have been twins.
7:42 So we, we always just assume that Cain was the older brother, Abel was the younger brother,
7:46 which might be true, but that they may have been twins because there is no description
7:49 of a separation of time between these two.
7:53 And so that was one thing that I thought was interesting because we have some interesting
7:56 twin, twin stories in the Bible to begin with.
7:59 But the connection between twins, like if you've ever known twins, like two of my best friends
8:03 in high school were twins and it was just, it was weird.
8:06 It was very weird how connected they were and even if they weren't near one another,
8:11 like the things that they would be doing roughly around the same time and the things that they
8:14 understood about one another, the nonverbal communication between the two.
8:17 And so I mean, you look at a guy, a secular guy like Jordan Peterson, a secular guy who's
8:22 very, very reverent of the scripture, dude, he did like a two hour long seminar on these
8:29 first eight verses.
8:30 Yeah.
8:31 Because he's like, they're so unbelievably much here.
8:35 And it's not just about what we talked about so far, just about, you know, the posture of
8:38 someone's heart.
8:39 I think another thing to look at though too is when we're, when we're looking at at, at
8:49 Cain and Abel, sorry, you started moving into kind of, um, try to remember where I was
8:57 going with that.
8:58 Um, sorry, that's fine.
9:02 One of the things that I was going to, I mean, I would point out here is again, thinking
9:07 of Cain's heart posture and where he was at.
9:09 Okay.
9:10 So Adam in the garden was persuaded to sin, you know, he has the serpent and Eve basically
9:18 offering him the fruit and he, he sins and, and you know, he gets called out on that.
9:25 He tells the truth.
9:26 He's a little petulant about it, but he is at least saying like, well I did eat the fruit.
9:32 Um, Cain here, literally God is trying to, I mean, it's like he knows what Cain's about
9:39 to do.
9:40 And he's trying to dissuade him from sin and he still won't listen.
9:46 And it's, I mean, and if you want to know anything more about, okay, what's Cain's
9:50 heart posture in the, in the sacrifice?
9:53 God's literally speaking to Cain and saying, I know what you're about to do.
9:58 Don't do it.
9:59 And he's like, yeah, I'm going to do it.
10:00 What do you know?
10:02 And again, I can't, I can't think of anything more convicting because I think how many,
10:09 I think of all the times that maybe I've been tempted to sin and confronted with it and
10:15 you just go, I think I could do it just this, I mean, this time's okay.
10:20 One thing that may talk yourself into it.
10:22 One thing that made, I finally figured out what I was going to talk about is that we,
10:26 we talked about last week in regard to Christ clothing, Adam and Eve, and there was a blood
10:32 sacrifice.
10:33 So animals were killed.
10:34 Um, do you think that that knowledge was foreknown that a blood sacrifice to a tone
10:39 needs to be done?
10:40 And that Cain decided not to do a blood sacrifice, but decided to do a sacrifice of his actual
10:45 fruit labor.
10:46 So there's, that's where it's interesting to know what we mean by fruit here, because
10:52 fruit could have been an animal, like it could have been a blood sacrifice, just not a choice
10:57 one, not a, not a, cause the, the dichotomy here is between the first born of a flock
11:02 and of their fat portions and the fruit of the ground.
11:05 And so I guess it's, if it's fruit of the ground, I mean, I actually think, I mean,
11:09 Ryan, I think you may be onto something.
11:11 I mean, the idea of the atonement of sin requiring blood and if he's offering the fruit of the
11:15 ground, but where did the animals come from?
11:18 They were brought up from the ground.
11:19 Well, there's that.
11:20 Would you mind?
11:21 Would one of y'all luck with your log us up?
11:23 I'm looking.
11:24 Maybe.
11:25 Okay.
11:26 You, you go ahead and do that.
11:27 Well, so while while you're doing that, I actually have, have a question that kind of
11:29 came up.
11:31 I want to know the last time you guys were really angry, not like, Oh, my team lost,
11:36 but like super duper angry.
11:38 So I'll start because this happened to me yesterday.
11:41 I went from zero to a million yesterday.
11:44 So to back up last hunting season, we had some, some deer and took it to, took it to
11:50 a processor and they like messed up my order.
11:53 And so they, they basically took all my stakes and tenderloins and some of my roasts and
11:57 grounded up.
11:58 And I told them, basically I didn't want any ground and then, you know, they had done
12:01 it.
12:02 And this was the first year that I wasn't processing the animal completely myself.
12:05 And then it's like someone messed it up.
12:07 And also I was able to go on an oryx hunt, which is, which is a rare thing.
12:11 And so you get this meat.
12:12 And a lot of people think like this is the best meat of all of the animal kingdom that
12:16 a human could eat.
12:17 And I took it to this processor here in Oklahoma city.
12:20 And basically they stole a lot of the meat.
12:22 When I got the meat back to my house, I was like, Oh, hey, I called him up.
12:25 Cause I was like, Oh, it looks like you lost a bag or maybe you didn't give me a bag from
12:28 the freezer or whatever.
12:29 And they're like, no, it's all there.
12:30 And just so you guys know, this is a large animal.
12:33 So two very, very big back straps.
12:35 I got just over two pounds of stakes off of this animal.
12:39 It should have been more like a minimum of 10, 12 pounds.
12:43 And they basically would never admit that one of their employees or somebody like stole
12:46 this meat.
12:47 It's like, look, you either ground it.
12:48 You lost it or you stole it.
12:49 It can't, it can't be something outside of that.
12:51 And so I was really mad, really, really frustrated last season.
12:55 So this year I get an elk.
12:56 I'm hunting with my buddy Heath was fortunate enough to get an elk.
13:00 And I'm taking the elk to a processor here in Oklahoma.
13:03 And it's close to my house, new processor, you know, I'm feeling good about it.
13:07 I get to the processor yesterday, well, a week ago, when I dropped this animal off, I also
13:11 dropped off some bison meat that hadn't been, you know, processed into ground yet.
13:16 And so I basically had two orders.
13:18 Here's an order of, you know, bison meat, you know, 80 some pounds of bison meat, but
13:21 here's an order of elk that I want to be in, you know, stakes and roasts and all that.
13:26 So they basically send me a message to where I think I'm coming to pick up my oak portion
13:30 and I'll pick up my bison later.
13:31 Well, they bring me my bag out to the truck and they're like, all right, all right, have
13:35 a good rest of your day.
13:36 And they go inside and I take my knife and open up the bag.
13:38 It's all ground.
13:39 And in that exact moment, I'm like, they ground up my entire elk, which ground elk
13:43 meat is amazing, but not anything about the fact that your stakes, your roasts and your
13:48 tenderloins are in that ground, right?
13:51 So I lose it.
13:52 I lose it.
13:53 My boys are right there on the bed of the truck and I just grab them, throw them in their
13:56 car seats and I go marching back inside and I take a few deep breaths before I get to
13:59 the lady at the front who had nothing to do with this and I say, Hey, ma'am, would you
14:04 just double check and make sure?
14:05 Was that my elk meat or was that my bison?
14:09 And she's like, well, let me go look.
14:10 And so I had to go back outside and like sit there and stew in this.
14:14 And luckily they had made a mistake with the first message, but that that was actually
14:18 my bison.
14:19 So I literally went from normal, excited, I got a bunch of meat to put in the freezer
14:23 to through the ceiling, completely angry, like ready to fight the entire planet to come
14:28 right back down, but it didn't give me an opportunity.
14:31 I go back to the truck and I go to my boys and I say, boys, y'all saw dad get really
14:35 mad, right?
14:36 Yeah.
14:37 Dad shouldn't have done that.
14:38 Dad should have been able to control himself.
14:39 I'm really sorry.
14:40 You had to see that.
14:41 James.
14:42 Do you forgive me?
14:43 Yeah.
14:44 I forgive you.
14:45 Eli, do you forgive me?
14:46 Yeah, I forgive you.
14:47 So it gave me a moment to kind of deal with it.
14:48 But for a guy that used to have a completely off the rails, anger problem, I hadn't had
14:51 an angry spell like that in a minute.
14:53 So that was one for me.
14:55 So while you're still doing your research, I've already got it.
14:57 Oh, well, hit us with it.
14:58 So here's what Moody says.
15:00 Let me get back to it.
15:04 In their desire to worship, therefore the brothers quite naturally present to the Lord
15:08 what is theirs to give, namely a fruit offering and a flock offering.
15:14 Cain's offering was not rejected because it was a non-animal offering.
15:17 This distinction is made only later on the law of Moses and when the fruit and grain offerings
15:23 were legitimate offerings in Leviticus 2, 1 through 16.
15:28 So laws of grain offerings which had to have oil and frankincense poured on them in regards
15:34 to giving but had everything to do with his heart because his heart and his attitude was
15:40 not consistent with the act of worship.
15:43 So I think it just comes back down to like, you know, we talk about tithing.
15:46 We talk about giving.
15:47 Like you brought up is giving with a grateful heart and having a grateful heart.
15:51 So God saw like God sees the heart of a man that's he saw it in David.
15:56 He saw the heart of Cain and saw that there was no worship in it.
15:58 I happened early in next to right where, oh gosh, who is the couple that withheld some
16:04 of their, their gifts that they're supposed to bring in a nice and safari.
16:08 Yeah.
16:09 Yeah.
16:10 And then they got swallowed up.
16:11 Yep.
16:12 Yeah.
16:13 It's rough.
16:14 Anybody else want to share an anger story?
16:15 So I'm not the only angry elf at the table.
16:16 This recent anger story is probably not worth sharing.
16:21 It's worth sharing.
16:22 Probably not appropriate to share.
16:24 Well, give us a PG version.
16:26 Well, can you give a PG version without violating?
16:29 I'm trying not to violate.
16:30 Okay.
16:31 Well, let's just pause.
16:32 Well, you can tell us afterwards after we turn the cameras off.
16:33 Sure.
16:34 Sure.
16:35 Yeah, I got one.
16:36 I mean, literally it happens every, I mean, I would say I pretty much have an anger fit
16:43 towards the end of every busy season I have.
16:45 And I just wrapped one up.
16:48 And I start looking at the hours that people are, you know, we, we require 50 hours a week
16:54 during busy season.
16:55 It's just the ebb and flow of this, you know, the cycle of how things work.
16:58 We don't get information until a certain time.
17:01 It all has to be done by another time.
17:03 So we require more hours during certain times of the year.
17:05 We give those back at other times a year.
17:08 We have unlimited PTO.
17:09 We have four day work weeks in the summer, like we really try and say, look, you have
17:14 the opportunity.
17:15 We're going to ask for more of these future dates.
17:17 So I'm going to give those back to you at other dates.
17:20 And they are all about taking the days that we give them, but when it comes time to give
17:25 them back, they short me.
17:29 And whenever I get toward, you know, we'll monitor it and we'll bring them in and then
17:32 I get to the end of busy season and then I go, you're short and I look at it and I get
17:40 so I get fit to be tied because number one, I feel ripped off, which I hate.
17:48 Number two, I look at the people who worked more.
17:53 And then I see people who worked less and I get very frustrated because I go, if you
17:58 would have just worked on average three hours more a week, this person could have gone home
18:04 an hour earlier every night because those hours don't go anywhere.
18:08 So I get, it just, it feels very, where I get worked up is anytime I feel like there's
18:15 an injustice, I get very, very worked up and I have to remind myself that sometimes what
18:22 I see as injustice is more just fairness and fairness is just envy disguised as justice.
18:29 So when a lot of times we don't actually want fair, no, we don't.
18:32 So fair would not be something that we would go towards.
18:35 First of all, just to go back to you, I've never seen you angry before.
18:38 So I'm very excited to hear this off air story because I've never actually seen it in real
18:42 life.
18:43 But I can imagine it.
18:44 Man, I mean, and you can imagine like when some, when you feel like your character's attacked,
18:48 like I know where my heart is, but when I when I'm attacked on where my heart is, you know,
18:55 outwardly that that that's infuriating.
18:57 So that's, that's one area that I struggle with is just being able to receive that and
19:02 be like, yeah, but at least I know where I am, you know, personally.
19:05 The other is just like, as I, as I'm teaching kids and I teach them something that's true
19:12 and then I see repeated mistakes in that area, I may have to remember I too make the same
19:18 mistakes over and over and over again, but sometimes it just, it's very frustrating.
19:21 I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, you know?
19:25 That's it.
19:26 Ryan.
19:27 Actually, every time I freaking drive, man, like, oh, I got, I don't know if it's like
19:35 road rage.
19:36 I just get sick and tired of people not paying attention.
19:39 So like a great, well, it's like, it's like here, here comes somebody down the road, 45
19:44 miles per hour.
19:45 They're about about 10 feet from you, doesn't mean it's time for you to pull out and have
19:52 them slow all the way down to 30 miles per hour.
19:55 Like you couldn't wait the extra 30 seconds for that other person to go by.
19:59 Like it just takes me off.
20:01 So I'm betting you, no one could ever indict you for any sort of traffic violations yourself.
20:11 Never.
20:12 I will say I'm sure I'm sure I can be me and I just get annoyed with it.
20:17 And that's what I, that's where I feel like the most of my anger, but like, I just bottle
20:21 it up.
20:22 Which is obviously a good thing.
20:25 I will, I will say this as well.
20:27 A lot of times while I'm driving, I will have this, this thought like, man, I wish
20:32 I had an old beater of a truck in that I could just run this person off the road.
20:37 Dude, I think you're about that multiple times.
20:39 Yank him out of the car and show him a thing or two.
20:41 Like that's where my mind goes because I just kind of like, I kind of trail off for a little
20:45 bit, going to murder land and then I come back down to have a just keep it in between
20:48 lines.
20:49 I've said it, I said it to my wife.
20:50 I was like, I hope somebody pulls that person out of their car and beats that all out.
20:55 You're wanting the beater truck.
20:56 I'm wanting a monster truck.
20:57 I just got to want to run them.
20:58 Oh, no.
20:59 I don't want to kill them.
21:00 Yeah.
21:01 No, no, no.
21:02 I want to kill them, but I want to do it with my hands.
21:03 I don't want to do it with my vehicle.
21:04 No, we're at church leaving any like, nobody like you're going down the road to drive.
21:10 And this person pays no attention, pulls out in front of me, which I'm like, all right,
21:13 it's church.
21:14 I'm like, I'm not going to be upset.
21:15 But then as you're going down the road, they can't do the stinking speed limit.
21:19 They're like weaving off in the other directions.
21:21 I'm like, I'm like, this is the idiot I have to go to church with, you know, like, I was
21:26 like, I was kind of like, I was like, I wanted to do something.
21:29 I wanted to honk.
21:30 I wanted to do like a lot of stuff to get like my fleshly desire, but I had just, I just
21:35 buckled it right now.
21:36 I'm sorry, Ryan.
21:37 I was trying to set my fantasy football line up.
21:39 No, right.
21:40 There is the warning to everyone that attends Faith Bible Church is Ryan is harshly judging
21:44 your driving abilities and decision making.
21:45 Hey, attention.
21:46 Keep that in mind.
21:47 If you agree, pay attention when you see somebody on their phone or eating or doing their makeup,
21:52 it does become problematic.
21:53 But the reason why I wanted to kind of bring up the different angers here is God doesn't
21:57 just deal with the lack of prudent sacrifice or the lack of heartfelt sacrifice.
22:03 He's going right at Cain's anger.
22:05 Like he's challenging Cain's anger here.
22:07 Verse six, the Lord said to Cain, why are you angry and why is your face fallen?
22:11 If you do well, will not, will you not be accepted?
22:14 And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door.
22:16 That's desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.
22:20 Because none of us would assume that God's going to be like, you know what?
22:24 You're just fine.
22:25 You're sin.
22:26 Just go ahead and stay there.
22:27 But some of us are stewers.
22:28 Like I used to stew in anger, like I would get angry and then stay angry and then I would
22:32 just be quiet angry, right?
22:34 So it was loud bombastic anger into quiet anger and I would just stew on it.
22:38 Whereas now, thankfully, whether it's maturity or just better decision making or just sanctification
22:43 or whatever, like it's a snap of anger and then it's like, you're fine, right?
22:49 Come back.
22:50 It's all good.
22:51 Like half some perspective, pull out to, you know, where you're looking at 10 years
22:54 of life as opposed to 10 minutes of life and say, is this a blip on the radar?
22:58 And sometimes it is.
22:59 Sometimes it's a serious significant thing that's happening and you're justified in your anger.
23:03 Most of the time, you're just being a little kid.
23:05 Yeah.
23:06 I mean, I don't know, I was thinking, as I was reading through this part, I was thinking
23:12 last night to the movie, the Matrix and when Simon is eating with Agent Smith and I know
23:22 that the state doesn't exist, I know when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling
23:26 my brain that it's juicy and delicious and after nine years, you know what I realize?
23:30 Ignorance is bliss and to me, that is such a good marker for just kind of living in your
23:39 sin nature, where you're just going, I kind of, you know, I've got this sin.
23:45 Maybe it's anger and I just feel it's like, nope, you know, I'm justified in my anger.
23:48 I mean, or maybe it's sexual sin.
23:52 Maybe it's, I don't know, there's a litany that you could go through obviously, but whatever
23:58 your sin is, it's this idea that somehow I can live with this and I'm okay knowing that
24:07 even though I'm living with this, knowing that it this pleases God or maybe I don't
24:11 think it this pleases God, but knowing I can live with that, it's like, I'm just attached
24:17 to my sin, I'm more attached to that sin than I am to God and I'm just willing to live this
24:21 selfish life.
24:22 That's when you're like choosing not to be sanctified.
24:25 Yeah.
24:26 It's like I'm in this sin and I know, because you know it's a sin, you called it a sin,
24:31 but you choose the one to live in your flesh and in that sin rather than being sanctified
24:34 by the spirit of God. And I mean, that's basically what God's telling Cain right now is like,
24:40 rather than sitting there moping because your sacrifice I didn't like because I know your
24:44 heart, it would do well for you to take my advice and have a heartic giving, you know,
24:52 if not, you'll still be in sin. And so the thing is, is he hardened his heart, you know,
24:58 he didn't listen to God, he hardened his heart and then look what happens.
25:01 Was he, do you think he was jealous of Abel being accepted? Probably. Is that where that
25:06 started? And then it just blinded him. I mean, that's why killed his brother out of jealousy.
25:10 Yeah. Well, generational sin, right? Yeah. Eve was envious of God. This is some truth
25:18 in that. Well, I think as well, it's, it's spite, like I think Cain's angry at God more
25:24 than he's angry at Abel, but he can't kill God. So he kills Abel. And so in this exact
25:31 scenario, again, let's assume that they are twins, right? In this moment, it's, it's Cain
25:37 that realizes God did not accept his, and we can't know that Cain knew that God wouldn't
25:42 accept it or that Cain knew why God accepted Abel's over canes, right? There's probably
25:46 still some confusion here. I think he's angry at God. And then think about it, extrapolate
25:51 that out to today. How many people do horrible things to other people because they're angry
25:55 at God. They're angry at their earthly father, something like that. I mean, when you think
26:01 about generational sin or curses or things like that, like kids that were abuse, a lot
26:05 of times grow up to be abusers, right? And it takes somebody basically stopping that
26:09 line of sin in a particular family line to keep that from continuing and, and manifesting
26:14 in the next generation. So I don't think he's more than jealous.
26:17 Yeah, you got to remember too that there's been a declaration that God's going to bring
26:22 a savior into the world. And I, I'm just imagine behind the scenes, like you have, which remember
26:27 that there's a supernatural world that's existing and, and are interacting at any time. So it's
26:34 not us versus other people per se. It's as much as it's Satan trying to utilize to pit
26:42 each other against one another to cause harm. But like he's like, I had to imagine Satan's
26:47 right here going, okay, I know God's going to bring a savior. So I need to cut this off
26:51 as soon as I can. So what can I do to get into this family and cause division, uh, that
26:57 outright murder? And it goes on and on and on and all the way up to Jesus. I mean, what
27:02 are we trying to do when Jesus is born? We're trying to, we're trying to kill all the, all
27:06 the male boys under a certain age, right? Cause he's like, Oh crap, Jesus has been born.
27:11 Savior's been born. Let's cut it off here. You know, so this is just one of those early
27:15 stories of, of Satan trying to get, uh, get in and cut off God's story.
27:20 I think another thing to look at is Cain's anger did not admittedly vent itself into murder.
27:25 So it says, instead it moved from a stage of inner entity to verbal, verbal dispute.
27:31 So this is implied in reference to the verse that Cain was speaking with Abel before he killed
27:35 him. I came from the moody commentary. So like they were like, who knows? Like he was already angry.
27:40 And they didn't want, he wasn't like so angry. He just walked over and killed his brother. Like
27:43 they actually got into a verbal dispute. So who knows what was said, but it's also the kind of the
27:49 idea of like, let, don't let the young, don't let the son go down in your anger. Yep. You give
27:53 a foothold turns into a stronghold. Yep. You know, that sort of thing. So wasn't dealt with quickly.
27:58 Nope. All right. Let's keep this. That's right. Let's keep this going. Uh, Winkler, let's do nine
28:03 through 16. Then the Lord said to Cain, where is Abel, your brother? He said, I do not know.
28:13 Am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said, what have you done? The voice of your brother's blood
28:19 is crying to me from the ground. Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to
28:25 receive your brother's blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to
28:31 you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth. Cain said to the Lord,
28:37 my punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground and
28:43 from your face, I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth and whoever
28:47 finds me will kill me. Then the Lord said to him, not so. If anyone kills Cain,
28:53 vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him
29:00 should attack him. Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of
29:05 not east of Eden. So he lies to God. You know, God knows what happens, but you know, where's Abel,
29:12 your brother? I don't know. Well, he knew. Am I my brother's keeper? Makes a joke about it.
29:18 Yeah, sarcasm makes a joke about it. Why is it a joke? Because what was Abel's job? He was a keeper
29:23 of sheep. He was a shepherd. Am I my brother's shepherd? Am I my brother's keeper? Again,
29:29 you don't want to read tonality into scripture that changes the meaning of it or the exegesis of it,
29:34 but go ahead. Was he rolling his eyes? So it's okay to woman?
29:39 Whoops. Generational curse. I don't think so, but sarcasm's still there.
29:45 Well, I think it's funny how he got the same like chastisement and what do you want to call it,
29:53 like curse as his father did. So now instead of like his toil into the ground providing for him,
29:59 how he's going to toil into the ground and there will be no provisions for him,
30:02 which then he in turns like basically admits to his sin and saying like, oh, that that that that
30:11 oh, man, I don't know. Like, what did God got that curse is more than I can bear? Yeah.
30:21 And like he's like, so he knows what he did. And now he's like, I can't even take the punishment.
30:25 Well, I mean, see, to me, it's almost I don't know that he's really acknowledging the sin.
30:30 He's just lamenting the punishment. Right. He's just going like, I mean,
30:35 he's worried about getting killed, isn't he? Yeah. He's like, he's worried exactly. He's trying to,
30:39 he's like, they're going to kill me. They're going to kill me. Oh, and I won't be able to,
30:43 I'm not going to be in. I can't see your face anymore. This is awful. And it's like, but he's
30:49 not once is he acknowledging like, he never repents of the sin. He only laments the punishment.
30:56 Yeah, he doesn't repent, but he really, he finally says what he did, you know, he like, he knows
31:01 he's sinned. He won't repent of it. He doesn't say where when he, um,
31:04 because he acknowledges the punishment, which is, hey, I will be a fugitive and a wanderer,
31:13 but he doesn't acknowledge, he acknowledges the punishment. So he acknowledges the fact that he
31:17 did sit. No, he's acknowledging the punishment. He's not acknowledging the sin.
31:21 He said, I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me.
31:26 So that goes back to God's words, which you shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth,
31:31 but at no point do we see a lament or a repentance or an acknowledgement of what he
31:35 had done. Well, I remember reading the moody commentary and being like, wait a minute,
31:38 I don't understand how this is him. Maybe I read it. I know exactly the passage you were reading
31:44 because we read the same, the same one. It's the difference. To me, it's the difference between
31:48 Cain and Adam and Eve. I mean, Adam and Eve, did they, did they admit to this? They did admit to
31:55 the sin. They just blamed it on someone else. Cain never even admits the sin. It says,
32:00 Cain was expressing deep remorse and confession when he said, my iniquity slash evil is too great
32:05 to forgive. But dizzy, I don't know. It is an expression of remorse over the recognition of sin,
32:14 so wicked that God's great mercy seems unacceptable. Makes perfect sense as an expression of despair
32:20 rightly caused by sin with the wish that he would just die. You know, I mean, at the same time,
32:26 you could be like, dude, I just, I just killed this guy, happened to me on a brother or what's
32:32 a big deal? Yeah, like you just gave me such a harsh punishment. I can almost imagine, you know,
32:37 it's like that it really, does it really justify this for the rest of my life?
32:41 Okay, if you go to any sense of confession, would seem to be quite far from Cain's statement
32:46 in verse 13, as typically translated, my punishment is too great to bear,
32:51 that's to the Nazbi, or my punishment is greater than I can bear, RSV. The Hebrew word typically
32:56 translated punishment of on normally means iniquity or evil. And when used as the object of the verb
33:03 bear, it usually has an idiomatic sense of bearing a way that is forgiving sin.
33:10 Casido. So they're saying, they're saying that Cain, by saying the word punishment, he's saying my
33:17 evil that he perpetrated. Yes. See, I actually look at that very differently because if he's saying
33:22 my evil, my evil is greater than I can bear and that if you look at the pun, I mean,
33:26 to me this, I don't know, when I read this, Cain's basically, he thinks this punishment is unjust.
33:33 I mean, this is just a commentary. Yeah, I know. You don't have to take those words forward.
33:38 I'm just trying to like, I'm trying to, when you, when you look at these things,
33:41 I'm trying to say, well, was he remorseful because he knows like he's taking the punishment and he's
33:46 saying like, that's more than I can bear. Yeah. You know, and so I don't know. Yeah, I don't, I mean,
33:51 obviously, I don't know you either. Yeah. Let's, let's look at something else that we may not know,
33:55 but verse 14, behold, you have driven me today away from the ground and from your face. I shall
33:59 be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and wander on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me.
34:04 So there's an implication here in the scripture that there's more people on earth than
34:07 have been described so far in the Genesis count. And so I remember getting stuck on verse 14 and
34:13 I sent that to Matt Chandler and I asked him about it and he goes, there's an implication here
34:17 that God is not only doing things through the line of Adam, that Adam and Eve are preeminent in
34:24 their creation in humanity, but there is other humanity that is taking place in this moment.
34:30 Do we know if there were other couple pairs that were created over here and created over there and
34:35 create over there to be the beginning of humanity? We can't know that for certain just by looking
34:39 at the text, but that the line comes from Adam and Eve. The issue here though is if Adam and Eve's
34:45 first progeny are able and cane, cane would not be fearful that anybody else because there would
34:51 not be in anybody else other than mom and dad. Does that make sense? Well, are they the first
34:55 two people that are born to Adam and Eve? Are they the first one, first two that are acknowledged?
35:05 As born to them? I mean, is it? Yeah, exactly. Are they the first sons?
35:10 Here's what I did. I was like, well, Adam lived for 980 years or whatever. Let's just assume they
35:16 have a kid every 10 years. That's a lot of kids. And then I was like, I calculate how long it takes
35:23 if each of their boys get married and do the same. They each have 10 kids. It does not take that very
35:31 long to go from Adam and Eve and Kane and Abel, whatever, to a million people. In fact, I think
35:37 it's less than 150 years. Yep. So I guess we don't know. And by this time, Kane and Abel literally
35:43 could have had children themselves. I mean, it's possible. But the thing that I look at though,
35:50 too, is I can agree with Chandler and the fact that we don't know how God created after the fall.
35:55 He could have created more people and created civilizations elsewhere. That very much could
36:01 happen. I do not believe that more people were created before the fall. I think during that,
36:08 I think during that Eden time that it was just Adam and Eve. Yeah, I think that's something that
36:13 you can point to biblically, but you're right. We've always assumed in the story that Kane and
36:18 Abel were the first two people born to Adam and Eve. We can't know that. They could have been
36:24 well down the line at that point, but we can see inherently that there are people in existence that
36:29 are not Adam, Eve, Kane, or Abel at this point. Yeah, you go to 17 and it says he built a city,
36:35 you know, so it's like, well, how big is this? A city for what and for who? Right? Probably for
36:38 people to inhabit. The other thing to look at, too, is like this passage isn't about, hey,
36:43 how did other people show up? This passage is about the heart of a man towards God. Correct.
36:47 You know, and a heart of a man towards what he has dominion over and also his brother.
36:52 And so when we start, like that's what God wants us to glean from the scripture rather than, hey,
36:58 how did other people pop up? You know, like he's like, that's a mystery you don't need to worry
37:03 about. Right. Let's talk about another mystery that is interesting to talk about, but we can't
37:07 really know why is God guaranteeing Kane that, you know, he will avenge sevenfold the vengeance.
37:14 If somebody takes vengeance on him, there are lots of different schools of thought as to why
37:18 God is protecting him. Yeah, I just think because that is, he's trying to get to Jesus to be the
37:23 Savior. He cannot have him killed. I just think he's protecting the line. How does that protect
37:29 the line now? The line was from Seth because there's a line from Seth. Yeah, that's
37:34 sorry. Yeah, but maybe it's just kind of creating that whole, you know, I don't know. Maybe when it
37:41 comes down to it, that's what God wanted to do. That was what God said. Like he came to him and said,
37:46 well, they're going to kill me. He's like, no, they're not. He's like, I will avenge sevenfold.
37:50 But think about it. Like this punishment is something like he fears, you know, and then he
37:58 also fears death, but God thinks it's like, it's like the whole, the whole death penalty punishment.
38:04 Like we can either put somebody to death, or we can, or we can let them sit in prison forever and
38:11 take care of them, you know, like, wouldn't it be easier to die than to sit in prison for 40 years
38:17 and live under that torture? You know what I'm saying? And so like the way he looks at it is just
38:21 like, hey, I want to have you live out your punishment. No one's going to harm you.
38:23 I still think about it, but like from a revenge standpoint, like you got two tribes and wherever
38:28 in one tribe kills one person of another tribe and then the other tribes, well, we're going to go
38:32 back. We're going to kill two people on their tribe. And it just goes back and forth, back and forth,
38:35 back and forth until they basically annihilate themselves. I feel like he's, God, maybe is trying
38:40 to cut that off right now. There's not going to be any of this revenge stuff.
38:43 Go ahead. I was going to say, I actually looked at this more like, why did he not kill Cain? Well,
38:50 because Cain actually had a purpose outside of, outside of just basically being the, you know,
38:57 first murder, first murder and, and, and being punished for that murder. I mean,
39:02 Cain, Cain went and wandered, but I'm sure had progeny and, and you know, those are the people who
39:09 basically expanded and, and, which we see that here. We see that at the end. You're correct on that.
39:14 Yeah. Let's actually let, let's let's put a pin in that. Sorry. Go ahead and read 17 through 26
39:18 and then we'll pick back up. So go ahead and read that and then pick back up where you were.
39:21 Great. I get the hard names. You're welcome. I could give them to Ryan.
39:24 All right. Ryan's out of the bullpen. Come on. Let's go 17 through 26.
39:30 Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bore Enoch and he built a city. He called
39:35 the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch. To Enoch was born a rod and a rod
39:41 fathered Mehul, Mehul, and Mehul fathered Methuza Shao, and Methuza Shao fathered Lemick. And Lemick
39:50 took two wives. The name of one was Atta and the name of the other was Zila. Atta Bourgeois,
39:56 he was father of those who dwell in tents in livestock. His brother Jubal
40:03 was the father of all those who play the leer and pipe. Zila bore Tuber Cain.
40:08 He was the forger of all instruments and bronze and iron. And the sisters of Tuber Cain was
40:14 Namah and Lemick said to his wives, "Adah and Zila, hear my voice. You wives of Lemick,
40:20 listen to what I say. I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me.
40:26 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold, then Lemick's is seventy sevenfold. And Adam knew his wife again,
40:32 and she bore a son and called his name Seth. For she, for she said, God has appointed for me
40:39 another offspring instead of Abel for Cain killed him. To Seth also a son was born and he was called
40:45 Enoch. At that time, people began to call upon the name of the Lord. So continue Jacob.
40:53 Well, I've kind of lost my choice. You were talking about how Cain, his progeny was supposed to.
40:59 Yeah. So I think when you start looking at just the wickedness that was kind of born out of Cain's
41:07 sin, and Lemick even coming in here, and I mean, basically he say, God's revenge for killing Cain
41:15 is sevenfold. Lemick's revenge for just simply striking him is seventy sevenfold. So essentially
41:25 elevating himself above God. And so I look at it and go, yeah, Cain actually, Cain's purpose was
41:32 essentially to, it's almost like he had a purpose of still populating the earth. But at the same time,
41:39 that population was just born out of wickedness and extended that wickedness throughout
41:46 lifetimes. Is there a connection here? I just saw this might not be, but Jesus and Peter are talking.
41:53 Peter thinks he's going above and beyond by saying, how often should I forgive my brother seven times?
41:58 Because again, in, in, you know, Judaism, there was really no concept for forgiveness from one
42:03 person to another, certainly not forgiving seven times. But then Matthew 18, 22, Jesus answered,
42:09 I tell you, not seven times, but 77 times. Absolutely, there's a connection to that.
42:13 Okay, well, let's talk about it. Well, I think, so these Peter says seven times, which would
42:19 essentially be, I mean, it's the inverse, I have to forgive him seven times. The inverse of Cain,
42:23 the wrath of God would be brought down sevenfold on anybody who killed Cain. Peter is saying,
42:32 I have to forgive him seven times. Inverse of that is Jesus is saying, no, that's not enough.
42:38 It's 70 times seven and Lamex over here. 77 fold. Yes, 77 fold. So 70 times seven. I mean,
42:44 I think there is a connection there in that Jesus is still calling back to, I mean, again,
42:52 Jesus to me is calling back to Genesis here. It's like, yeah, this is how, I mean,
42:56 I'm asking you, and again, you still have the numbers of perfection, but I'm asking you that
43:04 to continue to forgive over and over again, because that vengeance that Lamex is wanting
43:11 does not belong to him. It belongs to God. And he's still talking to a human.
43:17 So he's has to, a human has to forgive 70 time, you know, essentially 77 fold.
43:24 Well, there's something I could be off base.
43:26 No, no, no, like I'm going to butcher this, but I heard someone talk about it. So they were talking
43:30 about the Pentateuch. And so that's Genesis, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus numbers, Deuteronomy,
43:36 but that in crap, crap. Okay. In Genesis, every seven letters, if you take every seven letters,
43:44 it eventually will spell out Torah. Same thing in Deuteronomy, but with Exodus and numbers,
43:52 it's, it's every 77 or something like that. But then it's basically that everything is pointing
43:58 to Leviticus, right? It's basically funneling down into Leviticus where, where we get the law and in
44:05 certain things like that. Sorry. This is not the point that I wanted to make. So I completely
44:08 lost it. I can, I can find the video. I remember the pastor, you know, talking about it, but
44:11 there's so much significance to the number seven and how seven is used and the number for perfection.
44:16 Right. You know, everything that God creates, same counterfeits. And so why is the mark of the
44:21 beast three sixes? Because that is the number for incompletion, the number for completion is seven.
44:26 So three sevens would be perfectly complete. And then you get into Matthew 18, 22, is it
44:30 literally 77? Is it literally 70 times seven? Well, no, it's, you don't have 77 times for, you know,
44:37 tell someone that you forgive them or 490 times to tell someone that you forgive them. It just kind
44:41 of like, it's an expression. It's like saying 11 D billion, right? Like it's an expression like
44:45 that. Just onward and onward. Other thoughts? We're basically talking about see,
44:56 well, I will say this. So as we kind of read through Cane's offspring are credited with some
45:04 pretty significant cultural and technological advances here. You have city building, you have
45:10 Bedouin life, you have music and you have metal working metallurgy up. Yep. So why is it Cane?
45:18 Well, why are we seeing this? Why are they documenting this from Cane's line? And it's like,
45:23 literally everything, everything that we are doing. Yeah, everything we're doing for civilization
45:28 is born out of sin. And this desire to essentially overcome the quote unquote obstacles that God
45:37 has put in the path of us of the center and that we can actually control our outcomes in our lives
45:46 just through technological and cultural advancement. God uses people that aren't good people. Yep.
45:52 You know, like look how he Cane's not a good person, you know, but look how he used Cane.
45:56 That's why Cane didn't die. He still had plans. His plan wasn't for Cane to die because if his plan
46:01 was for Cane to die, he would have struck Cane down just like a nice and Sephira. You know,
46:05 but no, he didn't because he still had a plan. His plans still need to be done through Cane.
46:10 You also have first instance of Bigamy documented here. Oh, yeah.
46:16 First 17. Yep, taking two wives. Oh, yeah. So just just wondering,
46:21 wondering further and further away from what God had originally planned. And we're seeing death
46:29 introduced between humans now. And now we're seeing a man taking multiple wives instead of just
46:35 becoming one flesh becoming one flesh. Well, and also this is another time when people are like,
46:39 well, the Bible talks about slavery. The Bible has people that took multiple wives and concubize
46:44 and all that. There's a difference between description and prescription. Okay. So it is
46:49 described here that Lamec took two wives. It doesn't say Lamec took two wives dot, dot, dot,
46:55 and that was a good thing. And that was a very good thing. Or that was a righteous thing. It's
46:59 described not prescribed. So just because something so for Christians out there, if somebody's trying
47:03 to put you into a corner and saying, Oh, you believe this ancient book collected of fables
47:07 and all this other stuff. Well, this is described in there. It's like, okay, if a doctor is describing
47:13 something to you, but they're not prescribing it to you in order to make you well again,
47:17 you would obviously see the difference. The same is true here. Go back to see murder and
47:22 bigamy. And what happens now in the next chapter, like judgment, judgment is going to come down.
47:29 But go back to I mean, Cal to your point, I mean, for Christians who are battling this,
47:33 God, God goes back. I mean, go back to Genesis one. And you look at the six days, okay,
47:41 he describes the end of the first day is good. Second, good, third, good, fourth, good, fifth, good.
47:47 What's he say about the sixth day? Very good. Very good. It's very good. And why is it very good?
47:51 Because that's when man and woman became one flesh. Yep. That's it. So when you start talking
47:57 about whether things are good or bad, just understand that the only time that God ever described
48:01 anything as quote unquote good in the Bible was when he created it. Yep.
48:06 And the very first thing that evil did to humanity was to try to attack the sanctity of marriage.
48:15 And so when people ask me today, what is, you know, what's Satan's number one thing? Who's he
48:19 out there to get? Is he out there trying to get kids? You got it. He's confusing little kids,
48:22 making them think they're the opposite gender, confusing them into thinking that if they were to
48:26 take these synthetic substances that they'll somehow feel better and all these different
48:30 things. Yeah, like Satan's out there taking on a lot of different things, but he's trying to take
48:34 out the marriage first. And there's good reason for that because very from the very beginning,
48:38 we have some of God's very first or the very first orders were to man in terms of his relationship
48:45 to headship, right? He gave the dictates to a perfect, sinless man before woman was created about
48:50 how to act even after woman was created, right? And so Satan's immediately attacking that. Why
48:55 does he tempt Eve directly and not, not Adam directly, right? Because he was attacking the order,
49:03 right? I'm not going to attack the man who might be able to withstand this. I'm going to attack
49:06 the woman who is the weaker vessel, right? So in modernity, if you're doing things for God,
49:12 you better look for for grenades to be pulled and thrown into your marriage. Like that's just
49:16 something that's probably coming for you. Because the other thing is is how do we even begin to fathom
49:21 Christ's love for us? We do that because of how we are supposed to love our wives because Christ's
49:29 relationship to his church is described as that of a bridegroom and a bride. And so the same thing
49:35 is true here that if you have issues, just like if you have earth issues with your earthly father,
49:39 you may have some issues and some mental hurdles to get over as it pertains to a
49:42 heavenly father of any kind. The same thing is true here because if he can get you to doubt the
49:46 sanctity of a marriage, the oneness, the togetherness of a marriage, then he can at least bring up the
49:51 doubt that Christ's sacrifice actually applied for you. Right. And you get to remember that and we
49:57 probably said this before, but marriage is a covenant. It's not a contract. And so Satan will
50:02 try to get you to think about your marriage as a contract. And so if you have a breach of contract,
50:07 you should just get out of that. That's not how that's not how it goes. We live in covenant with
50:12 one another, just like God covenants with us. We do not give up. We don't walk away just because
50:17 someone's not doing their part. We stay in it and we do our part regardless of what the other
50:21 person is doing. I will say this too. There's probably a lot of people out there maybe listening
50:26 that do a whole lot outside their family fighting for different things doing probably in essence
50:33 good things for the kingdom. But if you're not fighting within your house first, you're not
50:38 going to bat for your marriage first, then you've got that in reverse order.
50:43 One thing I would actually also, I mean, you're seeing is the human population continues to multiply.
50:51 The sin tends to multiply and get worse and just we just fall further and further and further away.
50:58 You see these advances in civilization that may enhance the ability to procure food, stay warm,
51:03 stay alive outside of what God had and his perfect plan, but they don't do anything to
51:09 stem the tide of death and sin. And instead of the blessing resulting in subduing and ruling,
51:15 it is the curse that is spreading rather than conquering chaos and claiming it for sacred space,
51:20 sacred space is gone. Chaos is rapidly infiltrating ever deeper with tendrils that penetrate and
51:27 enfold everything they encounter. That's from a commentary, the NIV commentary. But
51:32 one of the things that was interesting whenever I was reading this, I started thinking about
51:35 how godless large cities can seem to appear. And you see all of this technological advancement,
51:45 you know, I remember going to DC a few years ago, a couple years ago and walking around and I just
51:52 looked at my wife and I said, I don't know why, but this makes me sad. And I was like, I don't
51:57 see a church anywhere. I see huge buildings covering up a beautiful sky that God created and I see
52:03 man's creation covering it up. I see concrete on a ground everywhere. I see no grass. I see no trees.
52:11 I see nothing that God created. I see only man's creation. And then you go, what about food? Well,
52:17 food is literally two steps out my door and it's made by a man and it's everything. And you know,
52:23 how do I get from here to there? Well, a man or I can just, I can get everywhere I need to go.
52:28 There's no dependence on God. None. And they don't need any. And it's like, so why are cities so
52:34 godless? But well, because we've advanced ourselves to a point where we feel like we don't need
52:40 him. And you know what? It's easy to start drawing the conclusion like, well, why did this great
52:45 judgment fall on people in the next chapter? Why did these great judgments fall in these cities
52:50 like Babylon? They didn't need it. They didn't they didn't think they needed him.
52:54 Yeah, I don't have a problem with with technological advances. It's just in the absence of
53:01 praising the one who gave you the opportunity to do that. I mean, I totally understand that.
53:06 Like, I mean, I think we're seeing what was naturally going to happen regardless of whether it was
53:10 a perfect world or a non perfect world, I would assume there was going to be a technological
53:16 advances. It was just we were seeing it played out and God wants us to see how it was going to
53:21 happen. It's just now it's happening through in a sin in a sin filled world. I think it's we give
53:27 ourselves a glory in those technological advances and we don't give him the glory. And when it comes
53:34 to that, it just shows how we're we're dying as a people in the fact of, you know, we don't worship
53:41 the creator who was like, yeah, we have these technological technological advances, but we wouldn't
53:46 have them if he didn't start where he started back in Genesis one one. One also, how many of us at
53:51 this table are familiar with the prayer? Give us a stare daily bread. Everyone. Okay. I will. Yeah,
53:56 we know it. Well, we know it. But when have we ever had to pray it for us? So I did not grow up
54:02 in a family that had a lot. I was never hungry. Right. I was never. I was cold and I was hot,
54:08 but I stayed in an air conditioned facility and an heated facility, right? If I was cold or hot,
54:14 it was because I was outside of the home that was provided by my mom and dad, right? And so I
54:20 think whenever you have evolved as a species or as a civilization so much that you are so far
54:26 removed from the prayer, give us a stare daily bread. When are you to call upon the Lord precisely,
54:31 right? Why is the faith of people that have nothing and the level of happiness of people that have
54:36 nothing relative to us? Why does that exist? Why do you get the exact same commentary from
54:43 people from the suburbs that go to, you know, poor parts of Mexico or sub-Saharan Africa or
54:47 all these different places on these admission trips? What do they always tell you about the
54:50 people there? They have nothing and they're satisfied. They are thrilled. They're they're happy. Now,
54:55 you're there because they are missing some things. Maybe they don't have clean drinking water. Maybe
54:58 they don't have, you know, homes with, you know, good plumbing or electrical or any of those types
55:02 of things. But they're satisfied. They're happy. And these are people that are having to or have had
55:09 to pray, give us a stare daily bread. And they had to watch God provide for them as He does for
55:14 the sparrow in the air and any other animal that, you know, isn't stressed out about where
55:18 its next meal is going to come from. That's pretty powerful. I don't remember who it was.
55:24 Somebody had a... I mean, go ahead, Eric. No, no, no. I just, I don't even remember the
55:29 entirety and the quote, but just, I don't remember who it was. It might have been Spurgeon, but it's
55:33 just, or Luther or somebody that just about his prayer was that God would not give him so much
55:38 that he wouldn't get that feeling that doesn't need him, that he would just, he'd have just enough
55:43 to survive just enough to, I don't even know if the Thrive is the word, but I mean, I think
55:50 about that. Like, I don't want so much that then I forget God, don't want too little that I can't
55:57 survive, but I know God provides. I know he promises he'll do that. I'll see if I can find that quote.
56:02 Well, I did have one last question as we wrap up here. At the very end, said, "At that time,
56:07 people began to call upon the name of the Lord." Did y'all look too much into that into verse 26,
56:13 because I couldn't find much, you know, Seth was, was a son that was born,
56:18 or two Seth was born a son. They called him Inash. And at that time, like, what was significant
56:23 about that time where people, it seems like this is the first time where it's like they're
56:26 calling upon the name of God? I would say, I mean, the way I read it is because everything
56:34 that's before this is just kind of talking about the depravity of humanity and how we keep falling
56:39 away from what God had planned, the murder, the infidelity. And you're starting to see all of these
56:46 horrible things that are popping up and horrible humans who are, you know, you know, not just,
56:52 you look at LeMec. It's not that he's sorrowful by any of this. He's taking pride in his sinful
56:58 nature. And you're starting to see that. And now people are like, okay, wait a minute,
57:02 I need to reconsider and I want to call on the name of the Lord. I want to go back to the garden
57:08 because in reality, the people who were in the garden are still here. They're calling on the
57:15 name of the Lord and they are still here. They know what it was like and they can see how the
57:20 wickedness has grown. Yeah, I don't know. I just kind of, I got the impression it's like,
57:25 they get so out of control, they just don't know what to do anymore. And they're like, well,
57:29 there's this God, God guy. Why don't we cry out to him for him to save us? In this moment,
57:34 I found that verse, by the way, it wasn't, it wasn't a quote by somebody. Proverbs 38 and
57:39 nine says, keep false falsehood and deceitful words far from me. Give me neither poverty nor
57:44 riches feed me with the bread that is my portion. Otherwise, I may have too much and deny you saying,
57:51 who is the Lord? Or, sorry, or I may become poor and steal profanning the name of my God.
57:57 All right. Any other thoughts on, yeah. Yeah. So on that last verse, I mean, that's where we're
58:03 introduced to Seth. And so if we look at the line of Cain, the line of Cain is full of depravity.
58:09 I mean, from Lamek to whoever was there, it's all going down a line of depravity. And I think this
58:15 kind of sets us up for Noah because Noah comes from the line of Seth. And so Noah is still a God
58:20 fearing man compared to the rest of civilization. And so I think from there, they're showing that
58:25 the line of Seth is God fearing. And so that his line calls out to God compared to Cain's line.
58:31 When I think to Jake's point, we're about to get into Noah. We're about to get into the
58:36 flood story. And why did the flood even have to happen from the beginning? That may give us a hint
58:41 as to why people were calling upon the name of the Lord, because there was probably some stuff
58:44 going on at that moment where you had no other thing that you could do to rely on for strength
58:48 or understanding than to call upon the name of the Lord. But guys, good discussion of Genesis 4.
58:52 It's been a pleasure doing the first four chapters of Genesis with you fellows. But guys,
58:55 come back here next week. We're going to do something a little bit different in Genesis.
58:59 There's some natural breakdowns in the book of Genesis. And so we're actually going to be doing
59:02 Genesis 5 and 6 next week. And so throughout our study of Genesis, we are going to be combining
59:08 some chapters here and there just because it makes sense for the overall discussion. So come back
59:12 here next week, having read through 5 and 6 of the book of Genesis. But before we let you go,
59:16 we are going to do a quick resilience boost and adopted life. Our mission is equipping men to
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1:01:24 You
Key quotes
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Kyle Thompson
The posture of your heart when you are making sacrifices for God is what truly matters.
Kyle Thompson
Cain's sacrifice is rejected because it wasn't his best.
Kyle Thompson
God loves a cheerful giver, not one that gives begrudgingly.
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