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[Music]
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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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Welcome back to the forging tale, sorry I got to mess up my own intro
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here cause Zach, I think this is your 8th attempt in a row, but the timer is going.
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You're the man, you're the man, land and leave it in baby, this is a monumental occurrence.
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But let's get back into it, welcome back to the forging table.
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The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
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forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
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by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you to come along with that journey
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with us.
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That's OG Ryan, then we also got OG Zach in the house and we got Russell in the house
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guys, we're digging into Genesis 37 today, so we have covered a lot of ground over the
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last several weeks, but now we're going to get into Joseph's dream, so we're going to
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be spending a lot of time, focus on Joseph here.
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So Ryan, you did such a good job last week reading all the most obscure names in the
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history of the Old Testament.
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And I wore my sorry Joby shirt just because I had a feeling you were going to make me
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read that.
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No, I would never set someone up to fail, no, like not at all.
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So I didn't have to apologize to Joe.
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And now it's just one big sorry, yeah, we haven't busted that shirt on a while.
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We should have that.
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Hey, walk through his church, wearing that shirt and people think it is absolutely hilarious.
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They don't get the joke a lot.
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Well, some of them get the joke, but some are just like, what's the sorry Joby thing?
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They're like, where'd you get that shirt?
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And I was like, there's like six of those in existence, and I think we sent one to his
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wife as well.
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All right.
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Just do the first four versus just the first four first four.
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Let's go.
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All right.
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Jacob lived in the land of his father's or journeys in the land of Canaan.
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These are the generations of Jacob Joseph being 17 years old was pasturing the flock with
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his brothers.
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He was a boy with this.
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He was a boy with the sons of Bila and Zilpha, his father's wives and Joseph brought a bad
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report of them to their father.
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Now Israel loved Joseph more than any other of any other of his sons because he was the
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son of his old age and he made him a robe of many colors.
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But when his brother saw that their father loved him more than all of all of his brothers,
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they hated him and they could not speak peacefully to him.
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Russell, do you want to act out robe of many colors?
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Do you remember what you did?
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No, you did.
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All right.
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It was nice.
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I remember that every single time.
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Well, yeah.
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Let's go ahead and kick it off right here.
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You know, some people are, you know, they make a lot of the robe of many colors.
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Obviously, there's been a lot to discuss their, you know, why Joseph was kind of the preferred
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son, Joseph kind of, you know, some people read it like, Hey, he was giving a bad report
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to the father because he knew he was the favorite.
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He kind of was like a tattle tale.
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And so it's like kind of setting him up for failure.
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Because other people are like, no, he was just incredibly righteous man.
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And if people are not upholding righteousness, you know, you let your father know, like in
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that day, it's like, it would have been incumbent upon him to share.
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So whatever y'all want to hit on those first four verses.
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If we go back, two weeks ago, Russell, you talked about how Jacob kind of set up his
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line towards Esau and how he showed favoritism.
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I think that favoritism is coming out more and more now that you talked about.
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And then the brothers are actually seeing it and they're becoming really vengeful of
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it.
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And, and, and taking it out on Joseph, but I don't know if Joseph is, you, I think you,
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you're the one that brought it up or Russell brought it up that there's like no bad thing
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said about Joseph and like the 14 chapters that he's in.
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But something makes me wonder if Joseph had any humility or he was just like just a matter
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of fact, you know what I'm saying?
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And so like that's, that's the thing you don't know if these brothers just automatically
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hate him, which God uses that hate for his good, you know, because he has to set up something
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in regards to what's going to happen in time.
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But like you start to see that favoritism come out and you start seeing these brothers
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getting more upset.
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But then you will get into the dreams, but yeah, that's just kind of like what I took
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from that first part.
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Yeah.
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Have y'all so I just want to bring this up here at the beginning of this so that we can
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watch it as it as we go through it.
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But there's so many, so much commentary on the idea that Joseph being a comparable of
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a Christ figure in, I don't know how you phrase it, but there's so many contrast and
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in so many things that are similar, I even saw that one person said that even the code
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of many colors, there was some discrepancy on translators and that that same translation
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could be a coat of no seams that basically like a no seam robe.
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And that was actually the same description or a description that was given to Christ when
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they robed him was a robe with no seams.
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And so just these little things I just kind of want to look for as we go through the Joseph
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story to relate those back.
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And some of them will just jump out at us.
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Well, Ryan, I think you've talked about before how you were really excited to get towards
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the latter in a Genesis because you really like Joseph so much.
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But I mean, my gosh, like sometimes I'll be embarrassed of myself by how much I lament
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or complain or you know, circumstances don't go well, yeah, I remember, you know, Lucy K,
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kind of a, you know, rough comedian, but back in the day, he had this joke to where people
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would get mad on flights when their Wi-Fi wouldn't work.
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He's like, it's sending a signal to space and sending it back down to your phone.
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Can you give it a second?
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And it's just kind of like how many people they've, they don't even realize it's like
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you're, he's like, you're flying 500 miles per hour in the air, like you're, you're doing
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it a few hours, what would take, you know, your forefathers, months of travel and half
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the people died of dysentery to do something.
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And you just read through Joseph's story, it's like, oh my gosh, things are so easy for us
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and this dude just stayed the course, stayed the course and he kept experiencing injustice
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after injustice.
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My favorite part of the Joseph story is like, I think what Joseph says to his brothers
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at the end and I know I'm probably giving away some stuff, but you guys should already
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read this.
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But, uh, spoiler alert.
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What God meant for what you meant for evil, God meant for good.
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Yeah.
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You know, and like that, he might be the ultimate example of that other than Jesus.
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Yeah.
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And so like, well, what we meant for evil, which is our sin, God meant for good by sending
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his son.
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And then, you know, with, when it comes to Joseph, Joseph is set up to keep the Israelites
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going because, you know, this nasty famine is going to come and hit.
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And so God, God had him go through all of this just to set him up and, and he, you know,
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I'm sure there's times that he lamented, you know, what he was going through, but he always
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trusted God and what God had for him.
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And so I just, Joseph's probably like one of my favorite characters in the Bible.
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Um, it's just like he went through such a horrible time, but man just came out at the
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end just praising God.
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Yeah.
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Incredible stuff.
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Let's keep, uh, the story rolling, Zach, if you'll hit five through 11 now, Joseph had
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a dream.
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And when he told it to his brothers, they hated him even more.
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He said to them, hear this dream that I have dreamed, behold, we were binding sheaves in
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the field and behold, and behold, my chief arose and stood upright and behold, your sheaves
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gathered around it and bowed down to my chief.
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His brother said to him, are you indeed to reign over us or are you indeed to rule over
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us so that they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words?
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Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, behold, I have dreamed
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another dream, behold the sun, the moon and 11 stars were bowing down to me.
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But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father's rebuke, his father
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rebuked him and said to him, what is this dream that you have dreamed?
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Well, I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground
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before you and his brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind.
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Yeah.
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So there's a lot of different ways people can take this.
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First of all, bold move cotton.
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They were so mad at your first dream.
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You're like, Hey, I got another one for you and it's even better for me.
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But it's just kind of like, okay, it depends on what tonality you read into the text is
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going to be how you're going to take the meaning of this section.
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And so if you take it as him being like kind of smarmy, like I had a dream you want to hear
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it.
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Yeah, y'all were all bowing down to me.
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I was above all you.
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So if you read that in the text, that'll be how it comes off or this guy just like literally
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can't not say his dreams or this was part of the mission.
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So it doesn't really matter if there was smart or not coming off of him as he was saying
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it.
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And I couldn't really get a consensus on commentators as to okay, he was in an unprovoked manner sharing
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his dreams.
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And it doesn't sound like he was saying it to be like, Hey, can y'all help me understand
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this dream?
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It was like, Hey, bros, bros gather around gather around.
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Yeah.
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Hey, you know how I'm on the favorite?
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Hey, you like my coat?
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By the way, y'all are all going to bow down.
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And then it's like, Hey, double down.
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You know, mom and dad also y'all are going to be bound down as well.
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So again, it's kind of all over the place in the commentaries.
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I don't know that it's a normal dream.
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You know, like the ones that we have that I can never remember when I wake up.
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I have a feeling this was like a trip and acid cannot forget about it feels very real
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type dream.
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So it's almost like he feels compelled to say something, which would explain some of
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the behavior about, you know, hitting them with the second one.
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It's even more how many times could you have had the dream?
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You know, like maybe he's had it multiple times.
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And we just don't know that because like, if you see like a lot with, with Pharaoh in
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the end, like he's having this dream multiple times.
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And so I like to think, I mean, this is just me thinking about it, but like, I mean, where
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do they do in the evenings?
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Don't they all get around and like talk to each other and, you know, like share, share
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things and like maybe he was genuinely like saying, I'm having these dreams and these
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are, this is, this is what it's showing me.
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Like what does this mean?
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And the brothers probably are like already jealous of him, but like his father who loves
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him is like, come on, man, your dreams are kind of crazy.
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Yeah.
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Like your mom and I are going to bow down to you.
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Like that's nuts.
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And like his brothers are like, who does this guy think he is?
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He thinks our own father is going to bow down to him, but honestly think he's just naive.
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Yeah.
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I want, I want to see like later on, we even see in his other interactions with people,
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I believe with Potiphar's wife, like this is very like, he's not trying to be as confrontational
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as he comes off at times, but he is just so black and white on what is good, what is
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bad.
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No, I'm not going to do this.
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I know no one's around, but my God is around.
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I can't sin in front of my God.
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Like he has this idea that God is with him, God is watching over and that whatever needs
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to happen, he just bluntly puts it out there.
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It's almost like he's on the spectrum or something, you know, like he, he's one of those guys.
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I don't know if y'all have ever met them, but one of those guys that they don't filter
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what, what normal people filter out to try to make you feel good about the stuff.
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They're just very matter of fact.
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And this is the, this is what it is.
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I need to tell you this.
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And we also know that he's gifted in dreams, you know, later on, we see this being a continual
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thing that he's gifted in dreams.
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He's gifted in understanding dreams or knowing that they should at least be interpreted.
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And so here we see the start of that.
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And I think he's just a very unique character that the Bible is first introducing to us
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here as this guy is different.
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And he knows he's different.
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His family knows he's different.
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Even the people that don't like it, they still have to admit he's different.
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When you said he was kind of spectrum, yeah, I literally had the thought that they're
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all hanging around the campfire.
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They're talking about how the day when they're cracking jokes and all that.
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And then he just real serious goes, I had another dream and he just starts like describing
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the dream and I was just kind of like, Joseph again, we were having fun.
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Read the room and I'm like, bro, like that's not the time for this.
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That actually is like way better.
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I think I'm going to go with that.
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Like maybe that was the interpretation, but that literally could be like the dreams that
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you hear about today, like, like, because I listen or think through all the stories in
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the Bible, when they point out dreams, they're always pretty impactful, memorable, or memorable.
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What about the ones that are happening in the Middle East right now?
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Yeah.
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Right.
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I mean, they feel more real than real to those.
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It's not a normal dream, right?
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So it just seems like this is something that's very impactful.
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That's not going to go away that, but made such an impression that he feels convicted
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that he needs to share it.
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Oh, and gosh, I mean, Ryan, you want to talk about one of the best arguments for something
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like Calvinism, the ultimate sovereignty of God of all that.
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It's like, okay, people in countries where a missionary cannot get into without all kinds
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of hoops that have to be jumped through, where Bibles cannot be sold or distributed, where
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street preaching would end with the cutting off of your head and second type of situation.
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And yet the gospel is exploding in these areas because Jesus, as with the Bill Khureshi,
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is coming to these people and calling to them in their dreams and you're right, you know,
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regardless of if you take any sleep aids or anything like that, sometimes, you know,
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people make the comment like magnesium dreams or something like that.
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Cause if you take magnesium right for bed, like sometimes the dreams can be so visceral
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and real, but within 30 minutes of waking up, you, you have nothing, you have no recollection
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of it whatsoever.
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However, I think all of us have had dreams before that it is completely stuck in your
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brain and it was more real than real while you were experiencing it a couple of months
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ago on, we'll be now with the ask a pastor, I asked Joby a question at the end, I saved
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the last question to kind of be kind of a weird deal.
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But I said, Hey, you're 51 years old.
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Let's say you wake up tomorrow in the last 30 years of your life was a dream.
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So you're 21 years old, you wake up, you're back in your dorm room or whatever you're
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doing when you're 21.
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So you've not graduated college yet.
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You've not gone to seminary.
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You've not met your wife Gretchen.
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So that's no eldest son, JP, no youngest daughter, Reagan, Capri, no, uh, beach church, no church
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of 11 22, like no, nothing.
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So you're back and you wake up and it's that what's the first thing you're going to do?
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Like in their dreams where it'd be like, no, you're there the entire time you were experiencing
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it the entire time and all of a sudden just poof, it's gone.
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So yeah, this does feel like categorically different.
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Like this is not like, Oh, I had a weird dream or had a bad dream or because a lot of times
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in your dream it's not actual people, it's just amalgamations of men and women or children
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or whatever that are just in your dream that are part of whatever the narrative of your
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dream is.
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And again, I don't really like getting into too much like dream, like, you know, these
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books of people that are like, okay, if you have a dragon in your dream, it means this.
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And if the color yellow shows up, then it means that like, but yeah, I mean, we see throughout
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this and this is used throughout the Old Testament that these dreams are and dreams and visions
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are absolutely pertinent to the overall narrative of scripture.
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Does Joby experienced a peanut butter and jelly sandwich yet?
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You know what?
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He is not.
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And I told, yeah, that's a good reminder because he's never eaten because I asked the question
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I was like, okay, once one of these has got to go forever.
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So you can only have one or the other forever.
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I said PB and J or grilled cheese.
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And Joby goes, well, I've never had a peanut butter and jelly.
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And so he said, I'll just give her that and I literally was like, pause, hold up, wait
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a minute.
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What do you mean?
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You've never had a peanut butter and jelly.
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What do you mean?
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What does that even mean?
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How does that even happen?
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I don't know, man.
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Never really had me a peanut butter and jelly.
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That's kind of how it sounds in my head.
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At least when he talks.
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That's not how he sounds like.
15:13
Hey, man.
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I never had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
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Man, I never had me no peanut butter and jelly.
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I don't really know.
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Peanut butter and jelly for a little baby, man.
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He's kind of like Ricky Bobby and Roy D Mercer in my head, they just like a combination
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of those two guys.
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Come on, man.
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How big a boy are you?
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It's already had no peanut butter and jelly.
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Yeah.
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I should probably figure that out.
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You know what I should do?
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Before the...
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Oh, I don't really know what I should do.
15:35
Okay.
15:36
I got an idea.
15:37
Yeah.
15:38
I don't know about it.
15:39
I think I got an idea.
15:40
So remind me after we're done here.
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Anything else in this first section before we move on?
15:43
All right.
15:44
Joseph being sold to his brothers now, spoiler alert.
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Whoops.
15:47
All right.
15:48
We're going to do...
15:49
He sold to his brothers or brothers.
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By his brothers, by his brothers.
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Sorry.
15:52
Words are important.
15:53
So Russell, let's go ahead and hit verses 12-24.
15:54
All right.
15:55
Now, his brothers had gone to graze their father's flocks near Shekelm and Israel said
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to Joseph, "As you know, your brothers are grazing the flocks near Shekelm, come, I'm
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going to send you to them, very well," he replied.
16:08
So he said to him, "Go and see if all is well with your brothers and with the flocks
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and bring word back to me."
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Then he sent him off of the Valley of Hebron.
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When Joseph arrived at Shekelm, a man found him wandering around in the fields and asked
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him, "What are you looking for?"
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He replied, "I'm looking for my brothers.
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Can you tell me where they are grazing their flocks?
16:28
They have moved on from here," the man answered.
16:30
I heard them say, "Let's go to Dothan."
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So Joseph went after his brothers and found them at Dothan.
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But they saw him in the distance, and before he reached them, they plotted to kill him.
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You say, "Through 24."
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Here comes that dreamer, they said to each other, "Come now, let's kill him and throw
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him into one of these cisterns and say that a fierce animal devoured him.
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Then we'll see what comes of his dreams."
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When Reuben heard this, he tried to rescue him from their hands.
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"Let's not take his life," he said.
17:01
"Don't shut any blood, throw him into the cistern, here in the wilderness, but don't
17:05
lay a hand on him."
17:06
Reuben said this, "Just rescue him from them and take him back to his father."
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So when Joseph came to his brothers, they stripped him of his robe, the ornate robe
17:15
that he was wearing, and they took him and threw him into the cistern.
17:19
The cistern was empty and there was no water in it through 24.
17:26
Yes, just through 24.
17:27
Yeah, there you go.
17:28
That's it.
17:29
Let's get into this here because obviously we see some scheming that's coming through.
17:33
It's one thing, whenever you have incredibly strong negative feelings towards a person,
17:37
and then now we start seeing this conspiracy.
17:40
Again, when they're talking about, "Here comes this dreamer that is obviously dripping
17:44
with sarcasm."
17:45
So again, we have to look at context and see exactly what's going on here in the text.
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Reuben said, "Hey, let's not take his life, let's actually see what we can do to profit
17:56
from this."
17:57
But yeah, they stripped him, they threw him in a pit, and again, you have to think, we
18:02
know the ending of this story, but if you're Joseph, he had to have known that his brothers
18:06
were not huge fans of his.
18:07
He had to have known, usually people are not completely aloof or unaware that people don't
18:11
know him unless he maybe was a little speck for me, perhaps he was aloof to it.
18:15
But I mean, you want to talk about the ultimate betrayal, I mean, these are your brothers.
18:18
We spent some time on a week or two ago talking about brothers and the relationship between
18:22
brothers and that bond that's there.
18:24
And even if you fight, and even if you get after it, ultimately you are for your brother.
18:28
But I mean, this goes back to Cain and Abel, and we obviously see this same type of thing
18:34
working out with jealousy turning into a murderous, violent rage by Joseph's brothers.
18:41
So keep going on that.
18:43
No, I mean, when it comes down to it, I mean, they're just mad, they're angry.
18:49
And then, you know, what we see with Ruben is Ruben actually shows them compassion towards
18:54
them.
18:55
From what I read in Moody, they don't know if it was really just compassion towards them
18:57
or just respect out of his father, respect for his father, because, you know, we talked
19:02
about within the last chapter, you know, of the, the ancestral relationship he had with
19:06
his mother-in-law, which probably led to his father being really upset with them.
19:12
But I mean, you think about it, man, like I've never won like, I've, I've been angry
19:16
at my brothers and I've never wanted to kill them, you know?
19:19
And so like the fact that these guys are like, are so jealous of who Joseph is that they
19:24
want to take his life is, it's kind of sad, you know, it's kind of sad that these, these
19:29
are the guys, but it just kind of shows how broken we all are, you know, it doesn't matter.
19:33
You know, Ruben, Ruben from here is, is, you know, showing some compassion and says, hey,
19:39
just throw him in the well, it's not spill his blood.
19:42
But then, you know, they're still trying to figure out after he's in the well, whether
19:45
they want to kill him or not and what they're going to go with and do with him next.
19:49
So it's just, I don't know.
19:51
It's just, it's a, it's a tough thing to look at.
19:55
I think Ruben doesn't really show or he does show that this family still doesn't have the
20:00
leadership that you would think it would, that Jacob really hasn't set up the structure
20:07
because even when Ruben doesn't want to do this, being the oldest son, so he's the oldest
20:11
son, he should have a great amount of authority over his other brothers.
20:14
But because of all the family dynamics, there is chaos.
20:17
Even when he doesn't want to do this, he has to basically talk them into this other idea,
20:23
throw him in the sister and he can't just go up to them and say, this is wrong, you're
20:26
not going to do it.
20:27
I'm the eldest, you fall in line.
20:30
Even though we're tired of this little punk, we're not going to do this.
20:33
He has to work this thing out to where he tries to scheme.
20:37
Again, he's his father's son and it doesn't work out.
20:40
Well, I think also too is that you have to look at the fact that Jacob didn't respect
20:45
him as the firstborn and he lost the blessing because of what he did.
20:49
So the brothers more than likely don't respect him, but then he decides to go and do it on
20:52
his own.
20:53
Like he doesn't do what you said he should have done, which is step up and say, no,
20:56
he's like throw him in the sister and he's going to go grab a rope and act like he saved
20:58
him.
20:59
This is kind of where you see Judah actually take a step as a leader in this group and we'll
21:04
see that in the coming chapter about, he basically says, hey, let's do this.
21:10
And we don't know if he's saying do this out of his own greed or if he's trying to help
21:14
Joseph out or not rather than spill a brother's blood.
21:17
But yeah, it's, you kind of see who starts taking lead and then you, we see that the
21:22
story shifts towards Judah's narrative for a little bit for a while.
21:26
Yeah.
21:27
I mean, there's questions about why would the father send the son and these conditions,
21:32
you know, knowing that the other ones don't like him and all that.
21:34
But I guess part of it just be providence, you know, in order for this story to unfold
21:38
with what's about to occur, you know, a lot of these things maybe are just God's providence
21:43
to try to answer some of the questions.
21:44
When you have to see, you know, coming up here with the end, sometimes you'll have parents
21:51
or things that happen and people will be like, how did no one know?
21:54
Like if there's a violent outburst by somebody or someone goes into a rage or something happens,
21:58
it's like, how did no one see the signs?
22:00
Like how did, how could a parent possibly have let this person go with this group of
22:03
kids knowing what blah blah blah and it's like, it's one of those hindsight is 2020 situations.
22:07
It's also one of those things where it's like, okay, you were not in the mind of that person.
22:12
That person was distracted.
22:13
Perhaps they thought, Hey, boys will be boys.
22:15
Yeah, of course they hate their brother.
22:16
Oh my gosh, I would kill him if I had the chance.
22:18
Like things that are said that I'm assuming are, you know, something that gone is a time
22:23
in memorial.
22:24
Like people constantly talk that way about people like, I just want to kill that guy and
22:27
they don't actually mean it.
22:28
They're just using hyperbolic language.
22:30
But again, we're going to get to the text here like he's going to lose a son for a long
22:34
period of time.
22:35
You know, there's been stories I heard about once we recently, I don't want to give too
22:39
much detail because I don't want to mess it up.
22:42
But there was a kid that was kidnapped from a particular house or whatever.
22:49
And I guess the everyone still stayed living on the street or whatever.
22:52
And like 22 years later at like 3 30 in the morning, the person came back to their, their
22:57
families door and like rang the doorbell, like 20 something years later, they had been
23:01
abducted.
23:02
They had gotten back and they basically just walked home, right?
23:04
Because they were abducted, it's up such an early age, they didn't know like, Oh, I got
23:07
to call the police.
23:08
I got to do this.
23:09
I got to fix this and that type of thing.
23:10
And it's just like, okay, like what do you even do in, in a situation like that?
23:15
It's just like, uh, it's a different level, like for these parents, because they thought,
23:19
they thought their kid was completely gone and now their kids at their door, but they
23:22
don't recognize them because they haven't seen them for a considerable period of time.
23:26
And so it's not going to be without its, you know, tremendous, uh, wide ranging consequences.
23:30
So let's actually, since we're, we're kind of falling into that, that discussion here.
23:34
Uh, Ryan, if you would like to go and finish this out, so let's just do 25 and read through
23:38
the indigence.
23:39
Can I just bring up one thing?
23:40
Yeah, please, please go.
23:41
Uh, is that back to the Jesus archetype is that they mocked him for his robe and tore
23:46
it off.
23:47
I mean, just to keep, keep an eye on those kind of little things because obviously the same
23:51
thing happened with Jesus.
23:52
Go ahead.
23:53
And there's also one interesting thing real quick on in verse 23, they stripped him of
23:56
his robe, the robe of many colors that he wore.
23:59
Like, they didn't just say they stripped him of his robe.
24:01
They kind of like, you know, like, no, no, no double stamp.
24:04
Remember when we said it was a robe of many colors, like it's like, they're reminding
24:08
the reader or they're lining the person like, Hey, this wasn't just a robe.
24:11
Remember like just not that long ago, we were talking about what the robe was.
24:14
Well, the strip room was a robe, but then they also threw him in the pit and like, you
24:18
know, after Jesus dies, where does he go?
24:20
What do they call hell?
24:21
The pit?
24:22
Yeah.
24:23
You know, and the pit's empty.
24:24
You know, the tomb is going to be empty.
24:25
So I mean, there's a lot of good, you know, Jesus archaea type in here is, I think the
24:29
word he is.
24:30
So there's a lot of good contrast.
24:31
You want to go ahead and get started?
24:32
Yeah.
24:33
Twenty five through the end.
24:34
Then they sat down to eat and looking up, they saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from
24:38
Gilead with their camels bearing gum, balm and murr on their way to carry it down to Egypt.
24:45
Then Judah said to his brothers, what profit is it if we kill our brother and conceal his
24:50
blood, come let us sell him to the Ishmaelites and let not our hand be upon him, for he is
24:55
our brother, our own flesh and his brothers listen to him.
24:59
The Midianite traders passed by and they drew Joseph up and lifted him out of the pit and
25:04
sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver.
25:07
They took Joseph to Egypt.
25:09
When Reuben returned to the pit, he saw Joseph was not in the pit and he tore his clothes
25:13
and returned to his brothers and said, the boy is gone and I, where shall I go?
25:18
Then they took Joseph's robe and slaughtered a goat and dipped it the robe in blood.
25:22
And then they sent the robe of many colors and brought it to their father and said, this
25:26
is this we have found, please identify whether it is your son's robe or not.
25:31
And they identified it and said, it is my son's robe, excuse me, he identified it and identified
25:38
it and said, this is my son's robe.
25:40
If your animal has devoured him, Joseph is without a doubt torn to pieces.
25:45
When Jacob tore his garments and put sat cloth on his loins and mourned for his son
25:49
many days, all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to
25:53
be comforted and said, no, I shall go down to shill to my son morning.
25:58
Thus his father wet for him.
26:00
Meanwhile, the Midianites sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, the captain
26:06
of the guard.
26:07
So obviously Potiphar is going to very much so, you know, feature in the life of Joseph
26:13
here shortly, but we have Judah saying, hey, like, come let us sell him.
26:19
And gosh, I'm in a road right there in the mouth.
26:21
It's very Judas-like that the same kind of idea.
26:25
And so I forget it was a couple of weeks back now, Zach, I may have been, you know, three
26:30
weeks ago, but we were talking about at what point, because I was making the point about
26:34
Preggesco and it's at what point do you lean on your own instincts, whether that be leadership
26:39
or management or business or entrepreneurial, like instincts to like do a thing?
26:44
Because if you're looking at the story of the gospels from a very, you know, pragmatic
26:49
point of view or a business point of view, like Judas was right, like, Hey, let's make
26:53
some money doing this.
26:54
Like, Oh my gosh, she just broke broke this and like that was a year's wages in that jar.
26:58
Like we could have sold that and fed the poor.
26:59
We could have done all these different things, obviously missing the point of what was even
27:03
being done in the moment.
27:04
But I don't know if this is just, you know, is that or Ryan, you already brought this
27:08
up to where it's just like, okay, we, we, we can only surmise what Judas motivation is
27:13
here.
27:14
Is he just thinking practically?
27:15
Is he thinking pragmatically?
27:16
Is he already thinking about guilt?
27:18
It's like, well, if we're going to lose our brother, we might as well get some coin out
27:20
of this entire thing, like, so it's just hard to kind of know what the motivation was there
27:25
for Judah.
27:26
The heart is desperately wicked, you know, who knows, I mean, that's what comes to mind
27:30
for me.
27:31
Yeah.
27:32
Right.
27:33
Because they sold them, you know, 20 shekels, that's roughly the cost of a slave at this
27:36
time in history.
27:37
And so, I mean, again, I don't really like, as long as we tell everyone, this is what
27:41
we're doing.
27:42
I'm okay with like, hey, what do you think this means?
27:45
Because it does, that, that doesn't really level in.
27:47
You should not ask yourself that much.
27:48
Hey, what does this scripture mean to me?
27:50
You know, that's, that's not really something because you can, you're basically starting
27:53
in the land of Isa Jesus.
27:54
That becomes a bit problematic, but here, um, I feel like Judah is just thinking pragmatically.
28:00
He's like, you know, what are we profiting here?
28:02
Yeah, we're getting rid of this nuisance, but we might as well get something extra.
28:05
Like the bonus is the money, because we're already going to be getting rid of them.
28:08
So who cares?
28:09
And, and I, and I agree with that.
28:10
I think it was, I think it was money motivated, but I also think like, if we think back, like,
28:15
how much do they know about their history?
28:17
How much do they know about can you enable?
28:19
Do you really want to spill your own brother's blood who's considered innocent, you know?
28:24
And so I think when it came, it gave him a way out.
28:27
It gave him a way to take leadership and like, you know, they're like, hey, we can split up
28:31
that money and we don't have to live with the guilt of our, of our brother of killing
28:37
our brother.
28:38
But I mean, their father, they're going to have to live with their father who's going
28:40
to mourn for many years until he sees his son and he doesn't even know he's ever going
28:45
to see his son again.
28:46
They don't know they're ever going to see their brother again, you know, and they have to
28:49
live with that.
28:50
And so, um, I just think that's just something, you know, they didn't even think about at
28:56
that point.
28:57
They're just thinking about how do we, you know, I think they're thinking, man, we pull
28:59
them out of this piece and go home until our father and we're going to get, you know, in
29:02
trouble again.
29:03
So.
29:04
Well, in psychologically speaking, I think we're wired to justify the decisions that we make
29:08
to rationalize them.
29:09
I mean, that's a legitimate thing.
29:12
So I'm sure, you know, they say that the path to hell is paid with good intentions.
29:15
And so they had just done something and now they're working to, to making themselves feel
29:19
better about it.
29:20
Have you ever found yourself to where like, to me, this is one of those stories where they
29:27
kind of thought something, what, what is it?
29:29
Uh, Mel Gibson, that actually said it the other day, it's, uh, your second thought and
29:34
your first action and the idea that like you have your first thought and then most of
29:39
the time we're pretty good about controlling that thought and submitting it to the spirit
29:43
or, you know, and controlling that, but then like that second thought, you're, you're accountable
29:48
for that one.
29:49
Like if you continue on that path, that second thought is yours and you're accountable to
29:53
it.
29:54
And that, that, uh, action that you take, you need to watch those because that, that's
29:59
where, and I feel like with them, somebody had that first thought, here's our brother.
30:03
Let's kill him and let's see what happens about those dreams.
30:05
And it's kind of like, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha, no, no, let's, let's really do it.
30:09
So that second thought got ahold of them to where somebody said something they shouldn't
30:12
have said.
30:13
They thought it first.
30:14
They shouldn't have said it.
30:15
They took action on it and then they find themselves continuing to take action towards
30:19
a wrong thing because they don't know how to get themselves out at the point that they
30:23
threw him in the cistern.
30:25
They were kind of in a, in a pickle because what do they do then?
30:29
They try to pull him out and then tell their dad, they were just joking.
30:32
I mean, the cisterns were not like something that you joked about being at the bottom
30:36
of, um, because he could have died just from, just from whatever that was, if it had water
30:42
and whatever.
30:43
And so like the idea that they just keep on making that next bad decision, thinking that
30:47
that's going to somehow dig themselves out and, and it never does.
30:51
It's like what Kyle said earlier where it's like, you know, sometimes people say what
30:55
they don't mean.
30:56
Like, oh man, I could kill that guy, you know, it doesn't mean you want to go and kill that
30:59
guy.
31:00
So one of the brothers let off some steam like, oh man, we should just kill Joseph.
31:03
And rather than like Ruben being like, come on man, that's crazy.
31:06
He's our brother.
31:07
Like you were saying someone's like, he goes, no, let's throw him in the, let's throw him
31:10
in the pit.
31:11
You know, it was just like, so one like stupid thought led to another stupid idea.
31:16
And they actually did it and now they're trying to figure out how to get out of this.
31:18
No, none of them thought back to be like, Hey, do you remember that story that our dad
31:21
told us about Abraham when you made a covenant God and then God said this weird thing about
31:25
your people will be strangers in a land, not their own and slaves for 40 like, yeah,
31:31
you think maybe this is how like we're going to sell our brother off to these people and
31:34
we know he's going to be out in this other land or whatever, but yeah, I remember watching
31:38
a documentary.
31:39
I mean, if you watch any modern true crime stuff, there's the diabolical people that plan
31:43
out every single aspect of the horrible abduction rape murder that they're going to
31:48
be doing.
31:49
We hear the like the serial killer things like I'm kind of weirdo.
31:51
I'm kind of like into the stories just like, because again, if I'm equipping men to push
31:54
back darkness, I kind of, you know, weighed in some of those dark pools of water to where
31:58
it's like, all right, that's, that's pretty darn dark.
32:00
But I remember this one story because it was, it was actually a redemptive story because
32:04
the guy I was on death row, he ended up becoming a Christian.
32:07
Like he was like teaching theology classes and Bible classes inside the prison and all
32:11
that.
32:12
And I think he was eventually executed.
32:13
But he abducted a woman from like a gas station and he raped her.
32:20
And I guess the plan was to rape her.
32:21
The plan never was to kill her.
32:24
But apparently things, you know, escalated during the situation and he's progressively
32:27
making these ideas.
32:28
Well, it's like, well, now what does she talk?
32:30
Okay.
32:31
Well, I got to, I got to shut her up.
32:32
Okay.
32:33
Well, I went a little bit too far with the violence.
32:34
Okay.
32:35
And then he ends up killing this woman.
32:36
And then he calls his buddy and, you know, picks him up in the car and she's got a, he's
32:40
got a dead person in the back of the car.
32:42
So now he's brought his buddy into it.
32:44
And his buddy's a little bit more of a low IQ guy, kind of a go along to get a long guy,
32:48
would basically, you know, do anything to help a guy.
32:50
And now all of a sudden they're trying to find a place to, to get rid of this body.
32:55
And it's just the continual escalation of the sin to where it started with, I want to
33:00
slay this, this lust, this sexual lust I have.
33:02
And then he sees someone that he could potentially do that with, but he doesn't want to mess
33:06
with the whole courtship process, right, thinking in, in the way a rapist would think.
33:11
And then it just completely unravels layer by layer by layer whenever you allow the sin
33:16
to kind of take over.
33:17
And there's so many stories about that that you see where the intention was never, this
33:20
was not part of the plan.
33:21
Like the brothers did not get together and think this entire thing through.
33:25
And you can kind of see from some of the messiness of it.
33:27
I mean, that's what a lot of detectives will look at when they're doing crime scene reports
33:30
and all that's like, this is frantic.
33:32
Like this is panic.
33:33
This is, you know, oh, they, they fought somebody and then they actually hit him too hard, beat
33:37
him to death.
33:38
They frantically dug a, you know, a shallow grave with their hands.
33:41
And then, you know, just tried to run and pretend like nothing had ever happened.
33:45
And it just doesn't really work out that way.
33:47
One thing that the Moody commentary pointed out here that thought was interesting is there's
33:51
a lot of results of this event by Joseph's brothers.
33:54
But the three main results that are kind of the redounding results that, you know, have
33:58
echoes throughout the rest of Genesis is number one, Joseph will live in slavery, right?
34:02
So that has a lot of, because when you get into Potiphar and Potiphar's wife and different
34:05
things, like they're, they're so much that has to do with the fact that he was enslaved
34:09
at the time.
34:10
Again, everyone thinks about, you know, African slave trade, chattel slavery, it wasn't exactly
34:13
like that in that time.
34:15
But, you know, this is a bad situation for Joseph Shirley.
34:18
So that's number one.
34:19
Number two, Jacob is going to grieve the loss of his son for over two decades.
34:24
Like again, where you could read this in an hour, but I mean, we're talking about like
34:28
22 years is him, my son is gone, like my favorite son is gone, right?
34:34
And then the third thing is Joseph's brothers will continue to live in guilt.
34:38
Because in the moment, you're just trying to think, okay, how could I just get to the
34:41
next thing?
34:42
Okay, we just got to do the next.
34:43
Okay, we got to cover this up now.
34:44
Okay.
34:45
Now let's just kill this goat, let's dip his thing in this goat.
34:47
So like, and then we'll be fine.
34:48
And you see that when these people do quote unquote get away with the crime, they're not
34:52
existing in a prison in terms of, you know, the literal physical location, but they're
34:57
kind of in a prison of their own mind because they're constantly looking over their shoulder.
35:00
I mean, you talk to these cold case detectives and, you know, we've talked to different people
35:05
on the show, you know, that have looked at some of these things.
35:08
Some of these times when these guys get caught, they are relieved because they've been walking
35:12
around for decades wondering is today of the day, right guys to get out of the mob or guys
35:16
get out of gangs.
35:17
They're like, it's today, the day that I get clapped is today, the day that, you know,
35:20
I'm going to have to pay for these decisions that I've made and then they get caught and
35:23
they get cuffed.
35:24
And it's just like, Oh, thank God, it's over.
35:27
I mean, the proverbs say they run when nobody's chasing them, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's
35:31
Jay Warner Wallace has told a lot of stories like that.
35:33
Yeah.
35:34
I thought it was crazy how like it just came back around to Jacob again and that he deceived
35:39
his father based upon Esau's cloak.
35:42
And then he was deceived by his own sons with a cloak, you know, and so it's just like,
35:47
man, it's just crazy how there's so much synergy around the sin in, you know, we look at Abraham
35:54
and Isaac and that they lied about their wives and then Jacob lying to his father and
36:00
dressing up as his brother using clothes.
36:02
And now his sons are using Joseph's clothes to deceive him.
36:07
And so it's just like man, Laban does it with his wife.
36:10
Yeah.
36:11
I mean, it's just like, yeah, it's just like, you think you went to the wrong page?
36:14
You're like, Oh, I've already read this.
36:16
Oh, this is happening.
36:17
It's still happening.
36:18
Yeah.
36:19
So I don't know.
36:20
I just thought it was crazy.
36:21
But like, no, I mean, when we look at it, like these guys are going to live in guilt for
36:24
the rest of their lives, there's a, I think I talked about there is a movie, uh, Abraham
36:29
that was done by TNT, like Richard Harris played Abraham and we were going over Abraham.
36:33
They actually did one with Joseph where like Ben Kingsley plays pot of fur.
36:37
And there's a scene where they, uh, the brothers take the cloak to the father and, um, they're,
36:43
they're sitting there lying and they see their father break down and like the brother,
36:47
like who's like the most mastermind, uh, uh, one of like the whole thing, Simeon, um, which
36:53
I don't know biblically that's correct, but like Simeon plays the role of the mastermind
36:57
of the angriest one at, uh, at Joseph and he runs out after that, after that scene just
37:04
sobbing because of the guilt that he had, you know, and, um, not to give away the rest
37:10
of the story, but like in the, in the end of that movie, uh, when Joseph sets and sets
37:15
them up, like he sits there and he goes, why do you have so much forgiveness for me?
37:18
You know, and it's just another thing to show how, you know, we've, we've been so
37:23
deceitful in our depravity towards God, but like he still shows that love for us.
37:29
And so like I had given away a lot of the story because there's so much of the story
37:32
left, but, but I mean like, yeah, just seeing these guys break down and live in the guilt
37:37
that they have and we lived in the guilt of our sin.
37:40
And because of Christ, we don't have to live in that guilt anymore.
37:42
We're forgiven.
37:43
Hey, men to that, well guys, or go ahead, Zach, well, uh, any, we covered ground pretty
37:50
quickly on this one, but we've gone long on a couple of last weeks.
37:53
But anything else as we wrap up Genesis 37, again, just getting into the narrative of
37:57
Joseph, anyone, anyone, anyone, anyone, all right guys, we'll just wrap it up there.
38:04
We appreciate you guys tuning in and listening in and make sure you are read through Genesis
38:08
39 for next week.
38:10
So read Genesis 38 and 39 to get ready for next week.
38:13
But before I let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost and adopted life
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Check the link in the show notes.
39:03
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
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Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
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star review.
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If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an
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email to info at undonta dot life.
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That's I N F O at undonta dot life.
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Also on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
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Just go to www dot undonta dot life.
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And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
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our content.
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The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album
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on face down records.
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The links are in the description.
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I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
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Remember keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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You're seeking the lion of Judah.