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This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56
Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping
0:59
men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:03
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by
1:06
digging into God's Word. We're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. That's
1:09
Ryan. That's Russ and Zach. For those of you keeping score at home, this is again another
1:15
week where he cannot get the thing to work. But that's not really the timer that is. So Ryan,
1:20
thank you for making sure we got the timer going. Zach, that's not even what I'm really worried
1:24
about here because I think everyone's heard the expression at some point or another. You think
1:28
you know a guy, right? So you think you know a guy and then they do something, right? Or you
1:32
find out something about this person. You're like, I didn't know them at all. Well, here recently,
1:37
Ryan and I had our minds blown because we were on some group text or whatever. And it came up
1:42
that the way that everyone in your life has spelled your first name this whole time that we've known
1:47
you has been wrong. So we've been spelling your name, Zach, Z-A-C-H. Why do we spell it that way?
1:53
Because Zachary is his full name. Z-A-C-H-A-R-Y. Yeah. And that would make no sense. I have Z-A-C-K.
2:00
But then all of a sudden, there's something that comes up and you type your name. Yeah,
2:05
your email address. And it was Zach with a K and I was like, huh, with a K. And you're like,
2:09
well, no, that's how it's spelled. And so I don't know what kind of game you're pulling here. I don't
2:13
know what exactly you're doing. Even Russ is mad. And he's secondhand to this story. I just wrote
2:17
Zach down in my Bible when we started. And how'd you spell it? How'd you spell it?
2:22
C-H. Yeah. Okay. There you go. So you think you know a guy, Zach, what other things are you not
2:27
telling us at this point, right? Because you can just change the spelling of your name years into
2:31
a relationship. What's that about? If that's your real name? You know, on January 28th, 1986,
2:37
the Challenger spaceship exploded. And in Midland, Texas, I popped out. And my mom set this situation
2:44
up. So I'm Zachary with a C-H-A-R-Y. And I'm Z-A-C-K ever since then. You just got to deal with it.
2:50
I got to tell you, I don't know what it is with white people that are setting themselves up
2:54
that we're doing this because we live in one of those towns where apparently you take normal names
2:59
like Jackson, wonderful, strong name, J-A-C-K-S-O-N. No, apparently not. It's J-A-X-X-X-X-X-X-O-N.
3:07
And that's how we're going to spell it. Why? Because we're unique. Because some
3:11
dork on the internet, you know, spelled their kid's name wrong. And so it's like,
3:14
okay, we got to make sure that on the first day of class, no one's ever going to be able to pronounce
3:18
your kid's name right. They're never going to spell it right when they write it on a coffee cup.
3:21
I just don't understand why people are going to be honest. The weird thing is you added an extra
3:24
syllable in the word spell, the spelled. See, I'm part of the problem. I am part of this problem.
3:32
And I'm also going to be part of the solution. I'll tell you that right now. But any other secrets
3:36
that you got that you would like to reveal for the first time, no one's listening? Nothing?
3:39
Nothing? Nothing juicy? No. I got a confession. Oh God. Okay, here we go.
3:45
My middle name's Ryan. My first name's William. I think we all knew that. Did you? Yeah.
3:51
That was like a big wait that you were taking off your shoulders that we're all like, yeah,
3:57
we know everybody knows nobody cares. Cool. Okay. Ryan Dean, unless you want to start calling
4:02
you Billy. When did you first go with Ryan? No, when did I first know it was William?
4:09
No, when did you first start going with Ryan versus I've always grown up with Ryan? What
4:13
happened to me in third grade, we moved to Altoona, Iowa, and the teacher is doing roll call,
4:19
and she was calling everybody's name, and she goes, William Horn, and I look around.
4:24
Like, there's somebody here with my same last name as me. Oh, you didn't know. I didn't know.
4:30
My first name was William. Oh. And so I'm like, and so they're like, she's like,
4:35
marked absent, and then like 20 minutes in the class. She's like, who are you? I was like,
4:39
I Ryan, and she's like, what's your last name? I was like, Horn. What did you think your middle
4:44
name was? I didn't know. I didn't even know. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, oh, snap. So I went home.
4:51
I was like, I was like, mom, dad, it's my first name, William. They're like, yeah. Like, you know,
4:56
what's this is the sad part is, is like, I had this thing in my drawer that said William,
5:01
and I had like what the name meant and everything. And I always thought it was my dad's because my
5:05
dad's name is Bill. Uh huh. And so no, somebody got that from me when I was a baby because my
5:09
first name is William. And I was like, oh, I couldn't put two to two together because I'm an idiot,
5:13
you know, you're a third grader, but I wasn't the smartest third grader. Yeah. So my kids will
5:19
tell you that. Well, that's, that's actually another problem with white people is they will
5:22
name a kid and then call them by their middle name from the beginning. It's like,
5:25
just call them that. So like when we named our first son James, which again, super unique name,
5:31
right? It's only the number one most popular place in the last 100s. Kyle is a James unique.
5:37
Okay. That's freaking good. People do that with family names. But that's the thing is like his
5:43
first name is James. And then like, uh, it was kind of rude, but like Kelsey's grandma, my wife's
5:48
grandma was like, Oh, Jimmy, I'm like, no. If we wanted to name him, if we wanted to call him Jimmy,
5:54
you know what we would, uh, we would just named him Jimmy. But so like, so Kyle, that was the fifth
6:00
name down the list, uh, of what my family wanted to name me. Number one, my mom went to name me
6:04
Bartholomew. Yes, sir. And then she's like, nobody would call him that he would just be Bart,
6:09
Bart. Okay. That's problematic. And then it was, and then it was Dezavi Lucas. Dezavi, Dezavi,
6:16
Dezavi, those seem like they're so far off the spectrum. Kyle and it's Bartholomew,
6:22
Dezavi, Dezavi Lucas. It's a hyphenated first name. Did she want you to be a rapper? There's
6:29
that not, that's not a rapper's name. Like, okay. So there was what Bartholomew, Dezavi Lucas.
6:34
The third one was, what was the third one? Um, George, no, it was Seamus.
6:39
That was awesome. No, it would have been awesome if I were a bus driver in Northern Ireland,
6:45
not for a kid growing up in Oklahoma with chocolate heritage. You've got a red beard and your name
6:50
is Seamus. That would have been freaking amazing on St. Patrick's Day. The rest of the days of the
6:54
year would have not been so amazing because I already have to walk around not being able to be
6:58
out in the sun for more than 47 seconds at a time. And then my name's Seamus. When I first met you,
7:03
I was like, oh, this guy's name's Kyle, whatever. Maybe we'll be friends. But if you were like,
7:07
hey, man, I'm Seamus. I'm like, we're going to be friends. That would have been the thing.
7:10
Seamus. Why, why are you that against like being so uncertain if you want to be friends with the
7:15
Kyle? Do you have too many calls in your life? Yeah. Well, I have a brother-in-law named Kyle.
7:19
Everybody wasn't. Yeah. And then if I ever was going to like, if I had to like go in and like,
7:24
you ever seen that movie? Was it Stealing Harvard? Yeah. And Tom Green and Jason,
7:29
man, I can't Jason Lee or whatever, they could go in there and go out ready to rob this place.
7:34
And they're like, hey, we can't use our real names. And the guy's like, call me Steve. And then
7:39
like Tom Green's like, call me Kyle. And I was like, dude, if I ever were going to rob a place,
7:42
my name's Kyle. So, but yeah, no, I don't have anything against Kyle. But I mean, Seamus is a
7:47
pretty freaking BA. Well, luckily that got axed by my dad as well. Fourth one down the line was Dylan,
7:52
which okay, cool name, but it was my initials would have been DDT. Because in my family,
7:56
the firstborn son takes the father's first name as his middle name. My dad is David. So I would have
8:00
been, you know, Dylan David Thompson, but DDT was not like a cool wrestling move at the time. It was
8:05
like, you know, this pesticide or whatever that killed a bunch of people. And so fifth down the
8:10
line was Kyle. I don't know who brought it up or whatever. So not a super common name. I hear it's
8:14
possibly making a comeback, maybe. But you know, in our modern day and age, models will start
8:19
spelling it like k-y-e-i-u-e-l or something like that, like that. Yeah, you send something in the
8:25
texture about that. Yeah, that's what people are going to start, you know, spelling it.
8:28
They're just, you know, normal name just spelled stupid because that's apparently the age that
8:31
we live in. So I got a brother-in-law whose name's Kyle. Okay. And his last name, or his not his
8:35
last name is Mivel name's Todd. But his parents like Todd so much that they named his brother Todd.
8:41
But he kept, but he kept his little name is Todd. And then he has a brother named Todd.
8:47
Well, now like I just call you Todd now because I'm like, I don't really know how to trust your
8:50
first name at this point. Yeah, emails are just Todd. Like, hey, Todd. Why would say it like that?
8:56
Why is it going to be like, who Todd? Hey, Todd. I was rusty. And then whenever I turned about eight,
9:02
I decided that I'd grown up and that people need to recognize that I'm just Russell. Yeah. My
9:07
grandfather was Russ. So I couldn't go the Russ route. Now my wife, she calls me, she calls me Russ
9:13
enough that now other people just call me Russ. But I never introduced myself as Russell. But
9:19
most people call me Russ because most people here heard talking about me more than. So you
9:24
wait, you prefer Russell. Now I'm okay with both. Your last name is useless. And so like, I just
9:30
like whenever I hear it, whenever somebody says use this, I go back to my cousin Vinny and the two
9:35
youths. So I'm just going to start calling you have so many obscure movie references. Like I'm in the
9:42
audience. I'm the human IMDB. See, I go from Russ. And like anytime I'm signing, like, if I was
9:47
going to rob something, I'd be Nick Papa, Georgia. Nick Papa, Russ, Russ went to Nick Papa, Georgia.
9:52
Sounds like you should be on the Wolf of Wall Street. Is it was that like three different movie
9:56
references all in like, I will be referenced this whole thing. The biggest vacation was Russ,
10:02
now Papa Georgia. Papa Georgia. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Biggest vacation. You know,
10:06
you asked a question. So I guess I'll go back to 1986. Oh, okay. Did you know that when the
10:14
challenger exploded, there was chaos in the Midland hospital. So I switched at birth with a Black
10:19
family's child. You're lying. 100%. So what was your name for? It took him like a few hours to
10:27
sort it out. It was your name. Longinus. I have no idea for a little bit. I was given to their
10:33
family, their child was given to my family and my dad looked at mom and said, "Is there something
10:37
you want to tell me?" Dude, you're lying. This is not true. You got to be messing. My mom hates
10:43
when I tell the story, but it's 100% true. It took him a couple hours to figure it out.
10:46
Like I have had chocolate milk early in life. Oh, and it's fine because I look exactly like my
10:55
mom. So they, they sorted it. So wait, enough to where you were like that, you weren't just in a,
11:01
in the, what do they call that where the babies are just in that room? No, I was not in the plastic thing.
11:08
I was like in the hands, so I'm told, no, you literally nursed at the breast. I don't know for sure,
11:14
but I was definitely switched and they definitely took me to that family and they took that child
11:17
to my family and the comment definitely occurred. I'll tell you, I understand, because babies in
11:22
general, like newborn babies just look alien. They don't look like they should belong anywhere,
11:29
they just look weird. I'm with you. Dude, I just want to see your dad. Like,
11:35
was there any connection or any possibility to ever keep up or to find out who that other
11:43
family was? If we could get the other kid here and get chalked together, finally, to be right.
11:52
Exactly. Last week, you were like, okay, this year, I got to make it happen. I have to golf.
11:56
No, we're, we're nixing that. We've got to find that kid, your brother. What hospital, right?
12:01
Midland. So some Midland. If you were from Midland and what you were born in 1986,
12:07
January 28, the day the Challenger spaceship exploded, if this story is familiar to you,
12:14
but on the reverse, please write in info and adults about life immediately.
12:21
We need to get this life first class with the woman who took care of him for three hours.
12:27
I, we need the baby and mom. We need they're both alive and well, which we certainly pray they
12:33
are. We need them here guys. So guys on the internet, please make this happen.
12:37
Is your mom nearby to where we could bring her in? She's in Midland.
12:41
Okay. I mean, maybe the father's. That kid may still come around. Maybe. Could still be there.
12:47
Yeah. Don't know. Well, there are, there are ways that you think an episode is going to go.
12:53
And then there's what we just sat there and experience. How do you not bring that up to us?
12:56
Yeah, yeah. We almost didn't get that. Yeah. I almost went right into the text because I was
13:01
at a tire to the IMDA references and things like that. Goodness. They have those, they have those
13:07
games where it's like, what is it? Three truths and a lie or whatever? Yeah. I've got it. It's like,
13:12
I was switched at birth. My eyes are four colors and I have two dislocating knees.
13:16
Yeah. And the second two are 100% true. And the lie is the eyes are three colors.
13:22
Yeah. Oh, yeah. The first and second. Yeah. Yeah. So typically it's pretty effective.
13:28
Jeez. Okay. Well, what would yours be? What would mine what be?
13:33
If you have, I mean, how do you set that up for yourself? Like three truths and a lie.
13:36
Yeah. What do you do? Gosh. Now that I'm put on a spot. Two truths and two truths and a lie.
13:40
Two truths and a lie. Yeah. Two truths. Right. Don't break your brain.
13:43
Man, I'm broken. Like you, you put me completely on these things. I was in.
13:47
Yeah, I should have these things ready. Okay. Let me hit you all with one.
13:58
I've studied abroad in Spain. I went on a trip where my bus driver's name in Ireland was Seamus.
14:07
And I am equal parts Irish and Choctaw Indian.
14:15
I'm going to say the lie is the bus ride. I will say the broad and Spain.
14:25
City of Bronze, Spain. I'm saying the third one is the lie. I should have known if you
14:30
studied Irish and Choctaw. I don't remember you doing that. Yeah. I changed mine.
14:34
I've never studied abroad in Spain. But when I was in Ireland, my bus driver's name was Seamus.
14:40
And I'm equal parts Irish and Choctaw Indian Choctaw, Choctaw Indian.
14:44
Are you on the registered and all that stuff? Never really went and did all made it all that
14:50
serious and all that. But it is kind of a claim to fame because, you know, when everyone was
14:54
canceling everything, so we couldn't have Aunt Jemima on the thing. You couldn't have red skins.
14:59
You couldn't have all that kind of stuff. Like, I'm like, I cannot wait until someone figures out
15:03
the ethnology of the word Oklahoma. Because Oklahoma is the combination of two Choctaw words,
15:08
which means red people. And so we're going to have to cancel the state of Oklahoma's name,
15:13
y'all. So we need to start coming up with new names. You've got a red beard. You're red, man.
15:17
I mean, there's red beard. And if I go out in the sun, because I'm playing the Indian part,
15:24
I would be red all over. Yeah. I didn't really know, like, my wife's family are Indians. And
15:28
they just sort of gave up. I guess there are so many opportunities to put your name on the rolls
15:32
that eventually so many times in a row, nothing came of it. So families just stop going. And then
15:37
the real one happens. And then you've kind of passed your deadline. So you're not, you're not
15:41
involved. Well, and the records can be a little bit of a mess because the way the story goes is back
15:44
on my mom's side. There, it would have been like my great, great, great grandma and grandpa or whatever.
15:50
So the woman was Choctaw full blood and the man was full blood Irish. So we came over here maybe
15:57
because the potato famine or something like that, I forget the story, but they fell in love. And
16:01
obviously, at the time, you know, the Choctaw Indians are like, absolutely not like you're not
16:06
intermarrying into this tribe. Same thing happened on the Irish side. And so they split off and they
16:11
had something like 25 kids. And so the family joke was that they made their own tribe since they were
16:16
kicked out of both of theirs. And so like, that's, you know, kind of how that goes back on that side.
16:20
And since you put me on the spot, Russ, two truths in a lot. That's going right. You know,
16:24
it's coming. So you got to get ready. So Russ hit it. And we got two chapters of Genesis
16:28
to hit as well. But don't worry, we'll get there. Okay, I can whistle the star spingle banner
16:33
through my nose. I have been ran over while naked in a tanning bed. And I also
16:50
have a brother that lives in Florida.
16:57
I was watching eye movements here in the hole. I was like, channeling rounders, right? And I was
17:08
trying to get a tell. I feel like you tried to make the third one too casual. Like you were just
17:13
making it up. The second one, the way you said naked, instead of naked, I feel like that was a tell.
17:19
That's just Oklahoma. That was a little bit of a tell. I'm gonna say the first one's a lie.
17:22
The first one is a lie. Well, you didn't even let them guess.
17:26
How are you guys? I win. Bam. Have you tried and failed or have you tried? I mean, run over
17:33
naked in a bad, like I was in high school. I was in high school. I was getting ready to go on a
17:40
men's fishing trip with my church and the owner of my, the place where I got my haircut, Belinda,
17:45
Studio 62 shout out and meeker. Let's go. Don't think Belinda is there anymore. But if you are,
17:50
check it out. She, we became friends and I said some about tanning. She was like, you know what,
17:56
you can tan here for free before your trip, all that. So I went in there. I would go after
18:01
football practice, go tan. And one day there was a girl from my school that I had just gotten all
18:07
greased up laying in the bed, put the goggles on. All of a sudden I hear an explosion and I go
18:12
flying through the room. I end up like a, like a wet noodle up against a wall and sticky wet.
18:19
Yeah. Yeah. And so then I look and I see the light shining through and I'm freaked out because I,
18:26
there's a daycare across the street and this after school. And so they're all outside and I can hear
18:30
kids and people yelling. And so I crawl underneath the tanning bed, which is now like completely bent
18:34
and probably saved my life. And I grab my jeans and I just come from the gym. And so I put these
18:40
jeans on. They're the kind that you usually wear shorts on underneath. I put them on their
18:44
hauler and they're banging that they're coming in. I'm coughing because of the drywall. She comes
18:48
in, they get me out of there. I decide after sitting for a while, decided I want to see what
18:54
happened. A girl from my school was putting on her shoe and hit the gas and drove right through
19:00
the building and hit me. And then as I'm walking out to check things out, Belinda comes running
19:05
after me holding my underwear in her hand. And she's running out, she's beat red. And she's running
19:11
out and she's like, Russell, Russell, you forgot your underwear. And I'm like, I just got ran over.
19:16
That's the last thing I'm worried about is my underwear. And so I even say that I'm like,
19:21
it's okay. It's okay. I'm coming back in. She goes, she was like, no, you need your underwear.
19:28
Yeah, man. Then you're Tony.
19:29
And I was like, what? And she goes, you need them on. And I reach back and I forgot there were
19:35
these pair of jeans that my parents wouldn't let me wear because they basically had no back to them.
19:41
Holes everywhere. And I reach back and all I feel is skin. And I walk back in and I grab my
19:47
underwear and I walk back in and all these ladies, because this is after school, right? So there's
19:50
a bunch of ladies around me. They are all there. They are all laughing hilariously. Beat red. And
19:58
they are just giggling at the top of their logs. I walk back, put my underwear on. And so then
20:04
Belinda, her, her deal was, she said that if we did a parade, she was going to have me on the float
20:09
and have a slogan 10, your buns at Studio 62. And then actually the next day I had a speech deal.
20:16
And, and I went to it and I came back the next week at school and everybody knew the story. So
20:22
I used to give the announcements in high school. I was friends with the principal and
20:26
so I used to give the announcements. Well, the day I was gone at the speech deal,
20:30
the principal had found out about it. And he told the whole school, the whole story. So whenever I
20:34
got back, everybody knew about it. Dude, good man. Principal. Good. Okay, Ryan, you've got a lot
20:41
to live up to at this point. We got naked, me guys wearing buttless chaps football players in high
20:48
school. We got guys getting switched at birth. Like, I mean, I ain't got nothing to choose
20:52
an ally. All right, here we go. All right. I threw a football with Troy Aiken. No, not Troy Aiken,
20:59
John Elway. All right. I think that was true. So
21:04
man. So through ball with Troy Aiken, John Elway, wait, who?
21:12
Just started out. All right. Through ball with John Elway, was state champion in debate club
21:21
in Iowa and was started in a Argentina rock stars music video.
21:27
Argentina rock stars? Is that a group or is that a guy from Argentina? Just some guy in Argentina
21:35
as a rock star in a music video. So you recovered from the William Horn incident in Iowa to become
21:45
a master debater, a master debater, master debater. I think that's your lie. The debate?
21:53
The debate. I think that's a lie too. Debate. I'll go with the third one as a lie.
21:59
The Argentina music video? Yeah. The debate is a lie. Okay.
22:04
Was it was it not the right state? No, let me hang it on. I never did debate. I was like,
22:10
man, I got to come up with a lie. So that's what I came up with. But no, I went to the Pro Bowl in
22:16
1999 and was at the Ihilani Hotel and was out in the pool and I got to throw a football with John
22:21
Elway. Ended up slipping and scraping my knees. And then when I was six years old, my parents had me
22:28
do some acting. I was in a poison control commercial. And then from there, I went and did a music video
22:33
for a guy named Miguel Mateus. He's a like a rock star down in Argentina. And the song's called See
22:40
Two Veramos Alas. And you can actually get it on YouTube. But Miguel Mateus, go ahead and say the
22:48
next part. CSI Two Veramos Alas is the song. What part are you in? I'm the boy who like kind of plays
22:56
him. Miguel. Okay, here we go. Who kind of plays him as a kid flying a plane. Oh my gosh, this is like,
23:01
it's such two million views on YouTube. Yeah, it's like, well, two million views can keep showing
23:06
everybody it. Let's see what it comes up to after this. I can't click on it because then this will
23:11
be brought down because somebody has the rights to this music and that's person is not me. But on
23:16
our break, I'm leaving this up because maybe for lunch, we got a and you're in this. I'm in it.
23:20
I'm like, I'm six years old. Do you remember the moves? Can you reenact? I didn't have it. Like,
23:24
I'm like, you see my faces, I'm going by like flying this airplane. What I remember about it the most
23:30
was the director hated me because I could not take direction very well. And he was like, hey,
23:35
if you can just take direction, if you can just do this, I'll let you throw this plane off the roof,
23:40
you know, after we're done with everything. Yeah, let's just say he hated me so much that
23:44
plane did not get thrown off the roof. He wanted to throw me. But like, here's the thing too. I was
23:48
like, I have my parents. I was like, how much do you don't get paid for that? Because all I remember
23:51
was getting an outburger and a chocolate shake. Yeah. So child exploitation is what happened.
23:56
But yeah. So I was in, I was in the music video. I mean, I didn't have to get naked anywhere. I wasn't,
24:01
you know, switched to birth. Yeah, my goodness gracious. That should come up in Sunday school at
24:06
some point, Zach, isn't it a Michael Jackson music field? Let's just say that. That's the best way in
24:11
the world to transition to the Bible. So guys, we're going to go ahead and get into Genesis 33.
24:17
We're going to be covering in Genesis 33 and 34. Yes, somehow in a miraculous way,
24:21
we are going to do both Ryan kickoff. Let's do the first four verses. We're going to have this
24:26
final, the finally, this meeting between Jacob and Esau. And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked
24:31
and behold, Esau was coming and 400 men with him. So he divided the children among Leia and Rachel
24:36
and the two female servants and he put the servants with their children in front, then Leia with her
24:40
children and then Rachel and Joseph last of all, he himself went on before them, bowing himself to
24:46
the ground seven times until he came here to his brother. But Esau ran to meet him and embraced him,
24:52
fell on his neck and kissed him and they wept. I mean, this is high drama. I mean, this is those
24:59
first three verses. This is you hear the soldiers, you hear, you know, whatever they're wearing for
25:05
armor, you can hear their, their swords clinking or whatever their weaponry was, you can see them
25:09
coming and see the dust approaching. And you're thinking, this is it. And the scene is so reminiscent
25:16
of the prodigal son, like that we see in Luke 15 be in partially because the father ran to the
25:23
son and you read that in a modern context. You're like, Oh, yeah, you know, he was happy to see a
25:27
son and you ran there. I've seen that enough in movies. No, no, no, men didn't run at this time.
25:31
Like you didn't do that. It was an undignified thing to do was to run. And you know, the prodigal
25:37
son was was obviously, you know, it was a made up story. But this is, you know, thousands of years
25:41
before Jesus, you know, tells the story of the prodigal son. And this is Esau running to his brother.
25:47
And again, we see from earlier parts of Genesis that Esau was furious and had reason to be furious
25:53
with the schemer with the heel grabber, right? And it just, it just didn't happen. I mean, in this
25:58
moment, I mean, it's just, there's so much emotion there wrapped up in just these four verses.
26:01
I think it kind of reminds me of like, when we talk about Exodus and we talk about Pharaoh and
26:06
how God hardened Pharaoh's heart, just how God worked on Esau's heart, you know, because Esau has
26:12
been manipulated and everything through Jacob, like Jacob has every right to fear, you know,
26:19
like Esau is going to want to have some retribution. But the fact that like God has worked on Esau's
26:23
heart, that when he saw his brother and fell, fell on his neck and kissed him and they wept,
26:29
you know, like man, like, it's just such a good picture of brotherly love and the reconciliation that
26:36
we can have through God through Christ. Ryan, you have a brother, Zach, you have a brother?
26:40
I have two. Russ, you have a brother? Yes. Okay, I'm the only one with this table that does not
26:43
have a brother. I very much like my sister and I basically did not relationship like, you know,
26:48
we're less than two years separated, but from the age of about five on like just, you know,
26:53
she didn't want anything to do with me. I guess I didn't really want anything to do with her.
26:56
And so like, I never really had that, you know, close knit familial love with like a sibling,
27:01
and I certainly never had a brother. But when I see like James and Eli, like I get so
27:05
like excited for them and scared for them because it's like I get to see that sibling rivalry,
27:10
but also that love. And I've seen, you know, I think I told you all about this and like it made me
27:16
kind of, you know, tear up at the time, but you know, here we are getting some shots for both of our
27:20
boys. And James, I think is three and Eli's one. And James gets his first because he wanted to show,
27:25
you know, how brave you could be. And of course, he's in pain and he's crying. He's in my lap.
27:29
And then he sees the nurse giving a shot to Eli when he's one years old and Eli starts screaming
27:34
crying. James flips out. He's trying to get out of my arms to get at the nurse. And he is screaming,
27:42
stop hurting my brother, like this blood curdling scream. And I just get overwhelmed with emotion
27:50
because I didn't, I don't understand that because I never had a brother. And so to read something
27:54
like this as a guy that always wanted a brother, but then like the gosh, the drama here, I know,
28:00
I keep using that same word, but it's just like Jacob is scared literally to the point of death.
28:05
And Esau, something has changed. And we'll get to verse 10 in a second where we see that Jacob's
28:09
like, look, your face is different. Even Esau, like everything's so different here. But I mean,
28:13
I'm wondering for you guys, like try to explain it to me as a guy without a brother like, what is
28:18
that connection like? Because you know, then I know guys that are twins and you know, these dudes are
28:21
like literally feeling the same injuries. Like I know these buddies that are twins, one lives in
28:25
Canada, one lives in Kansas. And like one of them like heard his hamstring and the other brother
28:29
without even knowing like his legs tightened up or whatever. It said this weird connection
28:33
that brothers have that I've just never experienced. What's it like for you guys?
28:37
Well, my brother is 11 years younger than me. So it's a little different. You know,
28:43
I was almost in like a carrying capacity with him. And so I spent a lot of time taking care of my
28:48
brother and my sister is 14 years younger than I am. But now as they're older, what I can say
28:53
about it is it's a really cool relationship just because, you know, you three or at least me and
28:59
my brother and I would include my sister obviously, understand the dynamics of your family and your
29:03
parents and you can kind of appreciate all that. And you know that, you know, in the future when
29:07
things change that these three will understand what it was like to grow up in that house with
29:12
those with those stories and all the other things that are familiar. So certainly, you know, the
29:17
same culture, the same raising, all that kind of stuff. So I think it creates a really special
29:21
unique bond. But for me, it's probably a little different because they're so much younger.
29:25
Yeah, kind of have the tumultuous relationship with my brothers. I mean, I'm sure they probably
29:31
don't mind me sharing this. One of them was an addict, put our family through some really hard
29:37
times, you know, but he's dealing with hard times himself. And we had to create boundaries, you know,
29:42
how to work through things. But like just a couple weeks ago, we celebrated him being one year clean.
29:49
Amen, let's go. And it was like, and I was talking to him about it. And you know, there's some things
29:55
that he's trying to make amends for with a lot of things. And I just told him, I was like, man,
30:00
like, if you can do that, that's great. But like, all I'm happy about is having my brother back.
30:06
You know, I was like, you know, there's a couple of times he should have died. And I flat out told
30:11
him, I gave him a Bible and I told him this, I was like, God's not finished with you. You should
30:14
be dead with the with the drugs you were using. And you're not because God has a plan. And like,
30:20
God has worked faithfully through him. And you know, he's still, he still struggles with certain
30:27
things and aspects in life. But when it comes to wanting that drug, he doesn't, he doesn't, he
30:32
doesn't really want it. So which is, which is great. And then another brother, he deals with alcoholism.
30:38
And he's been about six months over. And he was, he was, it was tough. These guys are younger than
30:44
me. They're like six to eight years age difference. And so, you know, being the oldest, kind of like
30:49
what you did, I was one, I had to take care of them all the time. So to me, they were always a burden.
30:54
They were never really my brothers. They were just burdens. And now it's like, they're my brothers,
30:58
like my brother, I play golf with one and the other one, we just kind of hang out and have good
31:03
conversation. But you talking about your sons kind of brought up my sons, my sons are seven years
31:11
difference. And I always remember, like, if Hank gets hurt, will, will, will will break down? Yeah,
31:17
you know, like, we'll rank down and get worried about them and stuff like that. And, and it's just
31:22
the heart that you have for your brothers. And so like, that was a hard thing for me, because I kind
31:26
of felt like I was in your shoes, my brothers were always burdens to me. So I feel like when they
31:29
were in the thick of it, like, I had to be strong, but also learned how to be graceful and have like
31:35
unconditional love that that God would have and took me a while to learn that. But when it came to
31:40
it, it's just like our, I was telling somebody earlier, you know, like, I wouldn't give up anything
31:45
right now, you know, with what I have, I would give up what I had before going through that
31:49
hard times life may have been good, but I wouldn't give up what they have right now. Like, I love
31:53
with the path my brothers are going down and, and I just want to be there for them and be the
31:57
brother that I can be. What about you, Russ? My brother was a big piece of trash. I'm just kidding,
32:04
James. No, he's a good dude. He's not here to defend himself at, at what is it? Rock Crusher,
32:13
Church of God there. And was it Crystal River, Florida? And he, no, he was, he was an awesome big
32:22
brother. He, we were two and a half years apart. My, my real dad had, had left whenever I was
32:29
young. My brother took a lot of those roles for a while, as well as my grandfather. And then my,
32:35
my stepdad picked that up and then praised the Lord. My, my real father also just became an incredible
32:40
man of God. And so to be able to be raised by all these men, the Eldridge book, father by God,
32:48
is one of those books that I actually sent to my, to my brother and, and said, man, you may be the
32:53
only person that gets this book like I get this book. And, and so, so that aspect was really good.
32:59
But me and my brother also being so close and being in school and competitive and things like that,
33:04
we fought fist fought almost. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say every day of our life. I mean,
33:10
we, while we were living in the same house, especially in those older years, we fought daily. And
33:18
sometimes they were playful. A lot of times they started out playful. A lot of times they didn't
33:21
end playful. My dad, he kind of, he kind of had a, a rule about, you know, hey, if somebody ends up
33:28
bloody, I get in trouble from your mom. So keep, keep the, the face shots to a limit. And beyond that,
33:36
you know, like you can go at each other. So we did that all the way through high school until,
33:43
and then he moved off. And I realized that not only did I miss my punching bag, but like my best
33:49
friend and, and, and so that was a weird relationship to see that kind of change and see that grow to
33:54
where we would fight with each other more than anybody else. But he's also the person that probably
33:58
pushed me for my first kiss. He probably pushed me to get in my first fight. I actually remember
34:04
that the first fight I got into was because of the first kiss that he made, made me have. And so,
34:12
why'd you kiss that guy? It was actually my girlfriend. Guy Layton Combs, I think he kissed my girlfriend,
34:19
my brother found out and, and made me go behind the buses and have a fight with him. So, yeah,
34:25
thanks James. But no, it was very much like he was really instrumental and we did fight all the time.
34:31
But it was kind of, kind of like this understood deal that we would fight with each other,
34:35
but we also knew I got into a lot of fights with him, you know, and things like that. Like it was,
34:41
that kind of closeness that we were at each other's throats, but you better not mess with, you know,
34:46
him or me or, or we both cared for each other that much that if it was really on the line,
34:51
we'd be there for each other. So that's what it sounds like with older brothers is it's like,
34:54
hey, if someone starts picking on them, it's like, hey, no, no, you don't get to pick on them. That's
34:58
my brother. I get to pick on them and you're gonna have to, you know, kind of deal with me. And like,
35:03
I see a little bit of that because, you know, James is getting excited that Eli is going to be at a
35:06
school next year, but I'm like trying to, you know, bring out the, you know, the warrior and James
35:11
and the sheepdog and James like, hey, you know, dad doesn't go to your school, right? No, dad doesn't
35:15
work at your school, right? No, who's going to protect your brother, you know, during the day
35:19
or something like that? And he's like, me, me, I get to protect my brother. And it's like,
35:24
you're right. While your brother is there, you can protect your brother. And then again,
35:28
when they, they fight and bicker and all that, sometimes when I pull James, James decides like,
35:32
hey, how are you going to protect your brother if you're doing this to him? And it's like, oh, yeah,
35:36
and I'm trying to call him up into an identity as opposed to just marking a behavior like he's a
35:41
dog. And like, Mark, Mark, I don't like that. That's bad. Like, so, you know, anyway, I appreciate
35:45
that. That was like helpful for me, like getting to kind of see brothers and stuff like that.
35:49
One of the things before we move on, yeah, like I wanted to talk about Jacob,
35:52
because we just talked about Esau and God making a change in his heart. I just kind of noticed the
35:57
change that God made in Jacob's heart, because you just pointed out the fact that he went before
36:01
his family. So he showed bravery. Yeah. And going before his family. But then also said,
36:05
he kneeled and bowed seven times. Number of perfection. Yeah. Number of perfection. But also,
36:10
what does that show? It shows humility. It's like Jacob humbled himself before his brother.
36:15
And like, how many times can we show that humility, you know, towards somebody else?
36:20
And we don't, you know, and so that just really made me think like God worked on both of these
36:24
guys's hearts. That's right. So let's keep this narrative going. What we're going to do to finish
36:28
up 33 is we're just going to switch off each paragraph, because I think we're all reading
36:32
ESV or whatever. We'll go counterclockwise. So I'll pick up in verse five, and then
36:36
Russ, you'll start in verse 12. And then, you know, we'll just, you guys get it. And when Esau lifted
36:40
up his eyes and saw the women and children, he said, who are these with you? Jacob said,
36:44
the children whom God has graciously given your servant, then the servants drew near
36:49
they and their children and bowed down. Leah likewise and her children drew near and bowed down.
36:54
And last Joseph and Rachel drew near and they bowed down. Esau said, what do you mean by all
36:59
this company that I met? Jacob answered, to find favor in the sight of my Lord. But Esau said,
37:04
I have enough, my brother, keep what you have for yourself. Jacob said, no, please, if I have found
37:10
favor in your sight, then accept my present from my hand, for I have seen your face, which is like
37:15
seeing the face of God, and you have accepted me. Please accept my blessing that is brought to you,
37:20
because God has dealt graciously with me. And because I have enough, thus he urged him, and he took it.
37:25
All right. Where do you want me to read through? Because I'm not seeing your chapter.
37:29
12, 3, 14, we, then Esau said, let us be on our way. I'll accompany you. But Jacob said to him,
37:34
my Lord knows that the children are tender and that I must care for the ewes and the cows that
37:39
are nursing their young. If they are driven hard just one day, all the animals will die. So let my
37:44
Lord go on ahead of his servant while I move along slowly at the pace of the flocks and the herds
37:48
before me and at the pace of the children until I come to my Lord and seer. And then yeah, exactly.
37:55
So Esau said, let me leave with you some of the people who are with me. But he said, what need is
38:01
there? Let me find favor on the side of the Lord. So Esau returned that day on his way to go to
38:07
seer. But Jacob journeyed to succoth and built himself a house and made booths for his livestock.
38:14
Therefore, the name of the place is called succoth. And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem,
38:20
which is in the land of Canaan and on his way to Patanuram and he camped for the city.
38:26
And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem's father, he bought 400 pieces of money,
38:31
a piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El Elohia
38:38
Israel. Pretty good. The one thing I wanted to kind of, you know, double click, I want to if you
38:44
will, was back on verse 10 where Jacob's talking to Esau and he's like, for I've seen your face.
38:48
And this goes back to your point, Ryan, of God changed Esau's heart. Okay, we don't see any
38:55
indication from the text that Esau, you know, read how to win friends and influence people.
38:59
And then all of a sudden he's like, well, I shouldn't hold this grudge. And you know, it'd be a lot
39:02
better for all these people if we just kind of let this go. It's like, no, God changes heart.
39:06
I will say for me, I don't want to go too far into this because we need to hit Genesis 34 as well.
39:11
There, there are some people in everyone's life, certainly in my life where all you want
39:17
is for them to be different. You, you want them to be completely changed. You want them to approach
39:22
life differently. You want them to approach you differently. The people around the two of you
39:26
that they love, no matter what the circumstance is, we want people to be different. And it's so
39:32
hard for people like me, very, very type a very driven and I have high expectations for the people
39:37
around me. We were talking about this joke. We had a bunch of guys on the back porch when Matt
39:40
Chandler was in town. He started his sabbatical by coming up here and staying with me in my house
39:44
and, you know, training in some chugitsu and you know, we're on the back porch. I'm making some
39:47
orcs burgers. And I make some comment to some guy and Russell just kind of pokes his head in the
39:52
conversation. And he goes, Hey, you know, you don't have to do what Kyle tells you to do, right?
39:55
And everyone kind of laughed because the point was, is I was like, I will tell people like,
39:59
look, you have to do this. If you're going to be in my presence, you have to be able to do 10
40:02
pullups or like, I'll just say something like that. And I'm kidding, but not kidding at the same
40:07
time. It's because I want people to be better. But I kind of came to this realization years ago,
40:12
like I kept caring too much. I kept caring more than the other person cared, right? So, you know,
40:18
they wanted to be in shape, but I really wanted them to be in shape. And then whenever they wouldn't
40:21
do the things necessary to be in shape, it would, it would like crush me, right? Same thing, like,
40:26
I would want someone's marriage to work out. And I'd be the only one in their life advocating,
40:29
don't get divorced. Like just you can fight it out. Like let me fight with you. Let me shoulder
40:33
some of this burden. And I just cared more than they did. And so the same thing is true with,
40:38
you know, brotherly love all the way up into salvation to where it's like, look, you can
40:42
want this for somebody. Because I've talked about people in my life that are not believers that
40:46
I'm just like, absolutely crushed by whenever, you know, Joby's church, they talk about that one
40:50
more. Why do they keep building these new buildings? Why do they keep expanding their churches? Because
40:54
they don't want that one more to ever not have a place to sit and a place to belong, a place to
40:58
be, whatever. There's big wall at the San Pablo campus at the church 1122 down there. So you're
41:02
one more wall. And you write your name of that one more that person that just you're super burden
41:06
for. And the level of your burden doesn't equal, you know, their, their actual transition. It's like
41:12
God at some point has to transition their heart from bitter to believer or from, you know, skeptic
41:18
to, you know, believer from completely irredeemable to redeemed or however you want to couch it.
41:24
And so that's the one thing when I read that, it just for me, it really stuck out because it's like,
41:28
okay, all right. Esau didn't change his mind. God changed his heart. How's that change for you
41:34
over time? I mean, do you still feel like you're more invested in those around you or have you
41:39
kind of pulled back a little bit? So what I guess what I would say is I invest more in the people
41:43
that mean it, right? And so, so I've used this example before, but we have new viewers every
41:48
week and I'm just so unbelievably thankful for y'all. And so, you know, if I'm repeating some
41:52
stories, it's for, for benefit. There was a guy that came up to me at Fight Club. It was after the
41:57
workout workout was especially brutal, or not, especially brutal. It was just a workout,
42:01
which is brutal. It's hard. It's hard to do. And he kind of me ambered his way up to me after
42:06
practice. And I could see it all over his face. And he goes, Hey, Kyle, can you? And I go, no.
42:12
He's like, what? I'm like, no. He's like, I didn't even say anything. I was like,
42:16
you were about to ask me to help you get in shape, weren't you? Oh, yeah. You were going to ask me
42:21
to help you try and help you train. You were going to ask me if you could come work out at my gym.
42:24
You were going to ask me if I could write out some workouts where you're going to ask me to do
42:27
that for you, right? No, not interested. I said, go shoe for six months. Use that super computer in
42:34
your pocket and, you know, join, you know, a fitness app, go get mountain tough, or go get
42:38
some YouTube videos and work out, go figure out some nutrition, read some books, come back to
42:42
me in six months. I will help you sharpen the sword. I will not help you find it. And so that's
42:47
kind of what I do now to where it's like, I give people, I do not give people the time of day,
42:52
if they're not going to give themselves the time of day, like I will not care instead of you,
42:57
right? I will not care for you in the place of you. And so whereas before it was like, no,
43:01
I'm just going to care. And if they show, you know, even 1%, you know, I'll try to
43:06
somehow become the other 99%. It's like, absolutely not go figure it out and go be an adult.
43:11
I mean, we kind of had that conversation that one time when I was making pizza for you.
43:16
Oh gosh, it was good. Oh boy, it was good. But no, he was just like, we're just sitting there,
43:20
and I think I was just like sitting in front of the oven, just doing these pizzas up. And he's like,
43:23
bro, you know, like you're not looking very good. I think it was like what 260 pounds?
43:29
You were at your biggest. I was at my biggest. Like all my clothes were fitting
43:33
way tight and everything. And he'd always like, he needle me a little bit. He's like,
43:37
I'm not buying anymore two Excel shirts anymore. I was like, I could lose 40 pounds. I still wear
43:41
two Excel shirts. Right. You know, it's just the way my body shaped, you know. But no, finally,
43:46
I had to get into it on my own. And like, you made fun of me for eating salads, but I ate salads
43:51
with me because I just knew I had to do what I had to do to lose the weight. And so like, yeah,
43:57
I've been on the trajectory since November of last year, where I was probably sitting around
44:01
260, 262. Now I'm down to 222, 224. I fluctuate between there. But like, I have a goal weight of
44:07
like 200. And I'm like really close to it. Like my work clothes don't fit on me very well. These
44:13
clothes fit better. And it's just like you were there along the way. But I didn't need you to make
44:18
a workout plan for me. But if I did say, Hey, man, look, look what I just did calorie wise,
44:22
I'll send it over to you every once in a while. And you'd be like, yeah, man, keep it up.
44:26
Like you were always there to kind of push me. But like you even said, man, I see you.
44:29
You know, I remember that one time when I was like, I was probably about 25 pounds down,
44:33
you're like, dude, I see you, you know, and I was like, that's what I was like, man.
44:35
Yeah. And part that's like, okay, great. Now make it a lifestyle. So it's like,
44:40
anyone can do can go to workout class for a week. Oh, you went to orange theory, you check the box
44:45
10 times. Okay, now do that for the remainder of your life. Yeah, figure out a way to be active
44:50
for the remainder of your life. And so again, I would use physical because, you know, everyone
44:53
kind of understands the internal angst of trying to roll yourself out of bed to go work out when
44:57
you don't want to. But the same thing on the spiritual disciplines or the relational disciplines,
45:01
imagine waking up and telling your spouse, I am not motivated to love you as Christ,
45:06
love the church today. I'm just not motivated. But that's what we do with exercise.
45:10
I'm not motivated to exercise today. Oh, I don't, you know, David Goggins's video this morning
45:14
wasn't as good as yesterday's video. And so I don't think I'm going to work out today,
45:18
right? Because you're looking for some external locus of control to control your brain so that
45:22
you can do the thing that you know you need to do that you just lack the current level of
45:25
discipline in order to accomplish. And so yeah, I mean, Zach, getting back to your point, it's just
45:30
imagine somebody that is not spiritually adept, but they keep saying they want to be.
45:35
And part of it is I've believe it or not gotten even bolder with people when they're like, man,
45:39
I'm really struggling with with porn. I'm really struggling. I was like, are you?
45:42
You're you're struggling with getting rid of porn? Because you know what it takes to stop
45:46
looking at porn struggling. If you were struggling, you'd be further along in this process now,
45:50
wouldn't you? Yeah, like I don't play with people anymore. Oh, I'm struggling with my way.
45:54
I'm struggling with being a good example for my kids. And all it's like, no, brother,
45:57
you're not enough with the struggle language. Say something else. Like say something that's
46:01
even mildly convincing because struggle is the last thing that you're doing. But if you're not
46:04
struggling, like you need to struggle. Like that's the point. Yeah, it's like, all right,
46:10
now I know that this is a problem. I've got to take care of it. I've got to rely on God and
46:13
I've got to rely on what he's put in front of me to go and do what I need to do. So whether that's
46:18
pornography or weight or your spiritual life or your marriage, like we know as believers what is
46:25
right. And we struggle with the thoughts that we have in our heads on our whether it's our
46:30
anxieties or whether we just want to put in the work or not, we got to put in the work.
46:35
That's absolutely it. And so guys, let's go and get into Genesis 34. We're going to keep this
46:40
narrative of this family going. And we'll just kind of switch off. We'll go counterclockwise again,
46:44
I'll kick us off. And we're just going to read all the way through this entire narrative of
46:48
Genesis 34. So here we go in the ESV and you're still reading the NIV. Okay. So you'll be five through
46:54
seven. All right. Now, Dina, the daughter of Leah, whom she had born to Jacob, went out to see the
46:59
women of the land. And when Shechem, the son of Hamor, the Hivite, the prince of the land saw her,
47:04
he seized her and lay with her and humiliated her. And his soul was drawn to Dina, the daughter of
47:09
Jacob. He loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father, Hamor,
47:14
saying, get me this girl for my wife. When Jacob heard that his daughter, Dina had been defiled,
47:20
his sons were in the fields with his livestock. So he did nothing about it until they came home.
47:25
Then Shechem's father, Hamor went to talk to Jacob. Meanwhile, Jacob's son had come from sons,
47:32
had come from the fields as soon as they heard what had happened. They were shocked and furious
47:36
because Shechem had done an outrageous thing in Israel by sleeping with Jacob's daughter,
47:41
a thing that should not be done. But Hamor spoke with them, saying, the soul of my son Shechem longs
47:47
for your daughter, please give her to him to be his wife. Make marriage, make, make marriages
47:55
with us. Give your daughters to us and take our daughters for yourselves. You shall dwell with us
48:00
and the land shall be open to you, dwell and trade in it and get property in it. Shechem also
48:06
said to her father and to her brothers, let me find favor in your eyes. And whatever you say,
48:11
to me, I will give. Ask me for is great, a bride price and gift as you will. And I will give whatever
48:19
you say to me. Only give me the young woman to be my wife. The sons of Jacob answered Shechem
48:27
and his father, Hamor deceitfully, because they had to file their sister, Dina. They said to them,
48:32
we cannot do these things to give our sister to the one who is uncircumcised for that would be a
48:38
disgrace to us. Only on this condition will we agree with you that you will become as we are by
48:44
every male among you being circumcised. Then we will give our daughters to you and we will take
48:49
your daughters to ourselves and we will dwell with you and become one people. But if you will
48:54
not listen to us and be circumcised, then we will take our daughter and we will be gone.
48:59
Their words, please, Hamor and Hamor sons Shechem and the young man did not delay to do the thing
49:04
because he delighted in Jacob's daughter. Now he was the most honored of all his father's house.
49:08
So Hamor and his sons Shechem came to this gate of their city and spoke to the men of their city
49:12
saying these men are at peace with us. Let them dwell on the land and trade it in or trade in it
49:18
for behold, the land is large enough for them. Let us take our daughters, their daughters as wives
49:23
and let us give them our daughters. Only on this condition will the men agree to dwell with us to
49:27
become one people when every male among us is circumcised as they are circumcised. We will not
49:32
their livestock, their property and all of their beasts be ours. Only let us agree with them and
49:36
they will dwell with us and all who went out of the gate of his city listened to Hamor and his sons
49:41
Shechem and every male was circumcised, all who went out of the gate of his city. Three days later
49:46
while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Deanna's brothers took
49:53
their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male. They put Hamor and his sons
49:58
in Hecom to the sword and took Deanna in Hecom's house and left. The sons of Jacob came upon the
50:04
dead bodies and looted the city where their sister had been defiled. They seized their flocks and
50:08
herds and dockies and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. They carried
50:12
off all their wealth and all their women and children taking as plunder everything in the houses.
50:17
Thirty? Yes, go and finish it out. Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi,
50:22
"You have brought trouble on me by making me stink to the inhabitants of the land. The
50:27
Canaanites and the parasites, my numbers are few, and if they gather themselves against me and
50:32
attack me, I shall be destroyed. Both I and my household." But they said, "Should he treat our
50:38
sister like a prostitute?" So it's obviously a very interesting story. This kind of changes the
50:45
family of Jacob. It's going to change their reputation moving forward because they were just kind of
50:49
like this, you know, kind of this easygoing people and then this, I mean, this changes absolutely
50:56
everything. Obviously, Jacob is kind of mortified by this at the end. But in our time that we have,
51:02
we have left here as we wrap up the discussion of Genesis 33 and 34, I thought there was an
51:07
actually a very interesting philosophical thing that came up with these last two verses. So Zach,
51:12
could you actually reread 30 and 31? Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi,
51:18
"You have brought trouble on me by making me stink to the inhabitants of the land. The
51:22
Canaanites and the parasites, my numbers are few, and if they gather themselves against me
51:26
and attack me, I shall be destroyed. Both I and my household." So that's verse 30. That's Jacob.
51:31
He's like, "Look, I'm thinking about prosperity here. I'm thinking about safety. I'm thinking about
51:36
the future of our progeny." Now verse 31. But they said, "Should he treat our sister like a prostitute?"
51:43
This is prosperity versus justice. This is not me coming because obviously, if you
51:48
listen to my show, you obviously understand that my justice spin is not this faux social justice
51:52
nonsense, but it's like actual justice. Like, "Hey, a baby in the womb cannot defend itself."
51:56
So we outside the womb need to defend that baby that doesn't have a vote in the matter, right?
52:01
And so I thought this brought up something very philosophical to where it's like,
52:04
Jacob is thinking like, "Hey, this is wrong. This isn't I for an I. This isn't..." It's
52:10
what you did was so far beyond the pale, what would be justified. And again, we don't have
52:16
the law at this point. Like, we don't have any of those things. I would have talked about just law,
52:20
like punishment for like a fence, those types of things. But then the brothers do kind of the
52:26
masterful thing that I try to teach people to do, which is like, "Hey, ask questions." The person
52:30
asking the questions is actually the one in power, not the one answering them. And so,
52:34
Jacob's, he's got to be exasperated. He's got to be like, "What did y'all do? This is crazy." And
52:38
then they just go, "Should he treat our sister like a prostitute? Your daughter?" And so that was
52:44
one of those things where I was like, "Oh, because it doesn't really..." Like, that's where this story
52:48
ends. Like, we don't get into, you know, 35, chapter 35 of Genesis, and we get, you know,
52:52
"Oh," and then they regretted it later. And then, "Oh, Jacob kind of came to their side." Like,
52:56
that's just it. The narrative. The narrative's over. I think that they misused justice in this,
53:01
because he, though the act went down, he wanted to marry her. And so, if you look back at those
53:08
times, if like sex were to happen outside of the marriage, it was considered rape. And I'm pretty
53:14
sure like she was drunk at a party or something like that. And this dude raped her. But he also
53:18
wanted to make her his wife. And at this time, you know, they could have given, Jacob could have
53:23
given his daughter over for, for third of something or some land or something like that and made them
53:29
a part of this. But why they couldn't is because they were not circumcised. So, it was considered
53:34
unclean to do that. So, basically, justice was happening in the fact that now she was going to be
53:41
a wife to Shechem and now everybody was being, was going to be circumcised. So, they're going to be
53:46
a part of the covenant. Well, basically, what Simeon and Levy did was they basically used God's
53:53
covenant as revenge against the city of Shechem. That's how I looked at it.
53:57
So, I would say because, again, I think people might pile on you there for a second, because it
54:02
seemed like you were very dismissive of rape because for all instances, which is, I knew, I knew
54:08
that's not that was certainly not the point that you were making. I think some people might think
54:11
how you were that is that what you're saying is clearly not what you're saying. But at this point,
54:15
you have brothers, we just talked about brotherly love earlier. Think about how much different it
54:18
is for older brothers for a younger sibling that's a female. And then you have a man that
54:23
forcibly penetrates and sexually violates your little sister. And then again, I'm not saying that,
54:29
oh, and then we killed every man in the area. We're not saying that that is a justified thing.
54:33
I've gone on a record saying that rapist should be castrated and killed, especially child rape,
54:36
just like, you know, all those types of things. This is certainly an overboard reaction. But it's
54:41
almost like their hearts were in the right place, but their calibration knob was completely busted.
54:46
Their hearts were in the wrong place, because what they did is they are the ones that came up with,
54:52
well, if you want my sister to be your wife, they were scheming, they were scheming,
54:56
rather than they shouldn't have just taken out their knives and killed them. That would have been
55:00
better than to say, Hey, we're going to go ahead and honor this deal. We're going to have you make
55:03
my sister an honest woman now. She's going to be. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's where they're
55:09
wrong. That's, that's where they didn't show true justice. And now they're trying to answer that
55:13
question. Should they treat our daughter or our sister as a prostitute? Well, you just treated
55:18
God's covenant as a revenge tool. And so you can't have, you can't have one eye for an eye. It's just
55:24
like what happened with, with Dina was despicable and disgusting, but they were trying to make it
55:29
right. And Jacob made it right. And they were trying to do the right thing. And then these guys
55:33
through their anger did something else that was totally wrong. Yeah. And I'm just reading through
55:38
some of these things, but some things that pop out, they're saying that the brothers basically saw
55:43
this as them proposing marriage and employed as slowly take over Israel and their possessions
55:48
and their wealth over time. So there's definitely some ulterior motives from this commentary.
55:53
And the second thing is that it was a gross injustice in the way that it was handled. And
55:59
unfortunately, from a political environment, a leadership standpoint, it really put Jacob back
56:04
significantly. So, you know, while I think there was certainly some things that needed to happen,
56:09
that wasn't his intention. And it had ramifications down the line. When he framed the question,
56:15
like you talked about, I didn't read that so much as him staying in control of a narrative,
56:19
I appreciate what you're saying. But Mora is just a response as an excuse when it's probably being,
56:24
when Jacob's saying, you've just ruined the perception of our entire community in front of
56:30
everybody. Well, they also overruled their father because their father gave consent to the marriage.
56:34
And so, I mean, like, if we look back at this time, like a woman didn't marry for love,
56:40
the father gave consent and was given a dowry for the daughter. So, he gave his consent for her to
56:48
be married. And the brothers went back on that consent, whether it's they distrusted Shechem,
56:53
which kind of goes to back, you know, like, maybe they saw it from their father because their father
56:59
didn't trust God through many things. And so, maybe they didn't trust God through this. But God,
57:03
in the end, works this out for their good because Shechem is a part of the promised land. And so,
57:08
it was a land they were going to inherit anyways. And there's, there doesn't seem to be a redeemable
57:13
man in this story. When you look through, it's like, okay, Jacob should have protected his daughters,
57:18
his daughter. You have this, you have this guy that raped her. You have the two brothers that,
57:23
you know, take that as an excuse to scheme and then murder a bunch of people in cold blood,
57:28
not, you know, the person that actually did the deed that did the raping, but to murder all these
57:33
other people. And it's just like, goodness gracious. Like, I mean, that, but that's the
57:36
Old Testament. Go ahead, Russ. This is what, this is what happens whenever you don't,
57:40
you don't take care of things. Like I've said, I think whenever you read the story of Jacob,
57:45
you seem with someone who is passive in many things. I know whenever we go through and we,
57:49
and we read about David, there are many times you read the story of David and you think,
57:54
man, how could such a godly man be so passive about these things, reject his leadership role,
58:00
not come into the decisions that he should be making faster. And here we see Jacob kind of doing
58:06
that. And let's not forget it. Let's go back a few verses and let's realize these kids weren't
58:11
stupid. And whenever they went into this land, what did they just experience,
58:16
Jacob listed his possessions out in a very real visual way when he went to go see Esau. And you
58:23
know what he did? He basically took, he took the children of the different maid servants and he
58:28
put them out in front. And then he took the children of Leah and he put them in front.
58:33
And then he took Rachel and, and, and, and her children and put them back with him. And so like,
58:40
they have already very visually been told where they stand with their father. And you're talking
58:45
about, so these two brothers were her, were her actual real brothers. So you think of a family
58:51
that's already divided, they have this, she's the only sister. They have this animosity that's
58:57
already built up towards their dad about, man, he doesn't care for us as much, you know, as Joseph.
59:04
And, and they have this animosity. And then they, they see that their sister gets raped. He does
59:10
nothing. He's trying to make a deal with them. And they carry this animosity that he has not dealt
59:15
with. You know, he never came back to them as like, Hey, sorry about leading you guys out
59:20
and putting y'all out in front as a shield in case he started killing. And maybe he would get
59:24
tired of killing by the time he got to me. But that's where you ranked. And they see their
59:29
sister being ranked here as not very important. And they take it on themselves.
59:33
But I disagree with that, because we have to look at the context of this time and era.
59:38
They might see it that way. But what it happens is she's now been defiled. So she can never marry.
59:46
Like nobody's going to want her. Like what happened? Like even when we go back to Jesus's
59:50
time, if there is a woman who was raped or was married beforehand, like she wasn't a woman that was
59:56
really people wanted to be with. And so the best thing for her at this time is to, you know,
1:00:03
this might sound sick in our society now was to be with the guy who defiled her because now she is
1:00:09
redeemed, because she's married to the person who had sex with her the first time. You know,
1:00:14
and so that's where he would that's where Jacob basically was like, all right, I can redeem my
1:00:20
daughter. She can marry this guy, you know, after she's been the flowered, you know what I'm saying?
1:00:25
And so he can bring some sort of just like that's considered justice to her. Like in a weird
1:00:31
sixth sense, it's considered justice. And so that's where it's like, that's where the brothers,
1:00:37
brothers were angry about it and I get it, you know, and I would be just as angry. And I just but
1:00:44
he did the best thing for his daughter that he could have. Well, I'm not saying he I'm not saying
1:00:48
he didn't because a lot of times you'd have that situation where the fathers would demand that
1:00:51
the person marry, marry them. And that would be the conflict. What I'm saying is the brothers
1:00:57
overreaction, I believe stems from this long tradition of being told that they are second rate.
1:01:03
Well, any could be because we're going to see that go on throughout the rest of this,
1:01:09
this time of Jacob and his sons, you know, and God's going to favor, you know, one son over
1:01:14
another, Jacob's going to favor one son over another. But when it just comes down to it, like,
1:01:19
as sad as the story is, you had like you said, like fathers are saying, no, you need to marry
1:01:25
my daughter because you did this. Most of the guys like now, but Shechem wanted to marry her and
1:01:30
Shechem wanted to make her a part of the house and they had a covenant and everything and these
1:01:34
brothers use that covenant to get the revenge. And that's I mean, like it's like Kyle said,
1:01:39
like there's no good person out of this whole thing.
1:01:42
And later on, we said, Genesis 49, whenever Jacob is giving his different descriptions of the 12
1:01:51
tribes and what they will be, he brings this up specifically towards Levi, who he basically says
1:01:58
you'll be scattered among the people I think he talks about is anger not being able to be
1:02:03
controlled. And that he disgraced on many scatters among the people. Obviously, Levi, the Levites
1:02:09
ended up being the priestly that didn't have a necessarily place in the land, but he does carry
1:02:15
this out. So like to your point, like this, we do see this again, be a big part of their description
1:02:20
later on and ruin the same thing happens with something that happens with him where he brings
1:02:24
it up later. Very good. I appreciate that back and forth. But guys, that's where we're going to
1:02:27
leave our description and discussion of Genesis 33 and 34. But come back here next week with 35
1:02:33
and 36 read and ready to go. So 35 and 36 of the book of Genesis. But before that you go,
1:02:38
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