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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:56
Let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:58
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:02
forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:04
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:08
by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:10
us.
1:11
We're going out of order.
1:12
That's Eric.
1:13
That's Ryan.
1:14
That's Jake.
1:15
Guys, we're getting into the fall.
1:16
So similar to what we did with Genesis 1, I got to say of all this, of all the chapters
1:22
of this batch that I felt like the most weight of the content and of the amount of stuff
1:28
and just the breath of stuff to discuss, it's Genesis 3.
1:31
I mean, every phrase is pregnant with meaning and so I want us to get into it as much as
1:39
possible.
1:40
But I want to do similar to what we did with Genesis 1.
1:42
I just want to read through the entirety of Genesis 3 and then we'll go back and start
1:47
kind of like piecing in and dropping in on the different things.
1:50
So Mr. Browning.
1:51
If you would do the distinct honor of reading Genesis 3 and let us know what version you'll
1:56
be reading it in.
1:57
This will be the ESV.
1:58
All right.
1:59
English standard version for those of you listening at home or watching at home, we're
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getting into Genesis 3, the fall.
2:06
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
2:12
He said to the woman, "Did God actually say you shall not eat of any tree in the garden?"
2:20
And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden,
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but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden,
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neither shall you touch it lest you die.'"
2:33
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die, for God knows that when you
2:40
eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
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So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the
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eyes and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and
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ate and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate.
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Then the eyes of both were opened and they knew that they were naked and they sowed fig
3:09
leaves together and made themselves loincloths and they heard the sound of the Lord God walking
3:16
in the garden in the cool of the day and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence
3:21
of the Lord God among the trees of the garden, but the Lord God called to the man and said
3:26
to him, "Where are you?"
3:28
And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden and I was afraid because I was
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naked and I hid myself."
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He said, "Who told you you were naked?
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Have you eaten of the tree which I commanded you not to eat?"
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The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me the fruit of the
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tree and I ate."
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Then the Lord God said to the woman, "What is that, this that you have done?"
3:57
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me and I ate."
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The Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all
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livestock and above all the beasts of the field.
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On your belly you shall go and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
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I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring.
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He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel."
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So the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain and shall bearing in pain.
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You shall bring forth children.
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Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you."
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And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of
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the tree of which I commanded you, you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground because
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of you.
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In pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and dissals it shall bring
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for you and you shall eat the plants of the field.
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By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground.
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For out of it you were taken for your dust and to dust you shall return."
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The man called his wife's name Eve because she was the mother of all living.
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And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skin and clothed them.
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Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us."
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In knowing good and evil.
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Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live forever,
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therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to work the ground from which
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he was taken.
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He drove out the man and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and
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a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.
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Nicely done, let's dig in.
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So right from the beginning we see the serpent.
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This is the incarnation of Lucifer, of the devil, of Satan.
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We see that also in Revelation 12, 9 in Revelation 20 verse 2.
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And so I think it's important and I don't know that I really reckon with this until
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I was reading through the Reformation Study Bible.
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So evil pre-existed Adam and Eve because the serpent in this particular instance was
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existent in the garden, because he would have been created with the other animals.
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And so the incarnate evil was already in the world, but sin was not yet.
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And it's so interesting that we see here that Satan bypasses, tempting the man.
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And so in doing that Satan is subverting the marriage arrangement of Adam as the head.
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He's not attacking the head, he's attacking the weaker vessel.
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So just in the very beginning part of Genesis 3, there's just a ton there to discuss.
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So curious what you guys think.
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I think it's funny, it's not funny, but it's great that you bring up the fact that evil
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already existed.
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And the fact that it did, sorry, get a little bit closer.
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There you go.
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And the fact that it did, I mean, we had in the beginning there was light and there was
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darkness.
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So and there was already evil because Satan was there because we have the tree of good
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and evil.
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We just weren't aware of it.
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That's one thing that we got to bury our heads in the garden and we were just weren't
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aware of what evil was.
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All we knew what was good, that what God created was good and we did not know any of
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the evil that was outside of God, that who was Satan.
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And so yeah, Satan comes from a side attack at the wife and then I think it's really
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interesting.
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Did God actually say, how many times do we still hear that now?
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Did God actually say?
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Now we're hearing it a lot from Christians.
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And now we're hearing it from Christians.
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Yeah, left-wing Christians.
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And then when we think about how we hear that from Christians, it's usually a gospel
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plus type of thing.
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Notice that it says, "You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst
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of the garden.
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Neither shall you touch it."
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God never said, don't touch it when he was talking to Adam if we go back to last
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week.
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He says, just don't eat of the tree of good and evil.
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So gospel plus has been added now.
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I don't know if she heard that from Adam, Adam was just like, hey, kind of like a legalism
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type of thing.
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Just don't touch it.
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I want to keep you away from it.
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But she says to Satan, either shall you touch it, lest you die.
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So I just think that there's a lot of contrast of where we are then and where we are now
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in regards to just hearing Satan move throughout our world.
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I was going to say, I think when I read this, I started chuckling.
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When Eve is responding to the serpent, you know, again, if we just read the Bible in
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a monotone voice and everything and how this is, you know, how did this really play out
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and it's like I could almost see her rolling her eyes.
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But God said, you know, that we can't eat of that tree and we can't do this and you
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shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden.
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Neither show you touch unless you die.
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Like you can almost see her rolling her eyes and I'm going to quote Stacy Winkler, my wife.
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This is one.
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She said this to me one morning and I just thought it's very funny comment.
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She goes, women just can't be satisfied.
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She roll her eyes when she said women just can't be satisfied.
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She goes, even when Eve was in the garden, it wasn't enough.
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Yep, yeah, the rest of us stayed silent on that one.
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I ain't saying nothing.
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Amen.
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Amen.
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That's all right.
9:48
There are three amans coming from the gallery.
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Yeah.
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But even in verse one, what is Satan doing when he's saying did God actually say he's challenging
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the word of God?
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Yeah.
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Because in that moment, there was no written word.
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There was just the word in the incarnate God that was walking with Adam in the garden
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every day.
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And then I mean, what do we see Satan do to Jesus in the desert?
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He was using the word of God incorrectly, partially or twisting meanings or inserting
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things that weren't there and taking things out that were there.
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That's exactly, that's been the game plan for evil from the beginning.
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So whenever you're, whenever Satan's doing that with non-Christians or even with Christians,
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did God actually say that?
10:27
Well, hey, for 2000 years, we knew Pornea to mean this, which would include any type
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of gay sex, but now in our modern understanding, all of a sudden, it doesn't mean what it's
10:37
always meant.
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And it also agrees with our political priors that we think it's okay for people to sin
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sexually with somebody that is same sex to them.
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Isn't it so interesting?
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And I think it's funny if you look at it, like, if we look at nowadays, we're focused
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on the flesh and Satan focuses on the flesh with Eve and the fact that he says you will
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not surely die.
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She's not going to die if she eats it, what she's going to die is a spiritual death.
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So she's unaware of the spiritual death and Satan is or Satan's using a way to kind of
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go out or flesh and be like, you know, fleshly, like, you know, we always end up dying to
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our flesh and we die to our spiritual portion.
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And so I just think it's funny how he goes after her flesh and the fact that he says,
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you're not going to die.
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You know, you're still going to be alive here.
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Just like he goes after the flesh of Christ and the factory is like, I'll give you all
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of this right here, you know, the fleshly desires.
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And so, you know, if you can keep your fleshly desires, you're going to, you're going to
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try to make every excuse you can to do what you want to do.
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Well, and he's praying on this whole idea of immediate gratification to, I mean, surely
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she's going to die eventually.
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Well, without the trail of life.
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So, you know, it's like, and I imagine, you know, we can kind of skip it down a little
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bit, but like, said then he gave, she gave to her husband, who was with her, I was like,
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I wasn't wondering just out of his standing there kind of like, all right, she ate of
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it.
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I want, okay, well, she hasn't died yet, so maybe, maybe God is holding out on us.
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Okay.
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That's fine here.
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Give it to me.
12:11
And I'll eat.
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You know, I, you're right, like Satan wants to cast doubts in what God has said is enough.
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And he wants us to think that there's something better.
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And what do we do?
12:23
All our lives as we take, you know, take God's word and discard it.
12:28
We try to recreate something that is satisfying, that just doesn't satisfy it does in the
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immediate sense, whether you get drunk, whether you do drugs, whether, you know, have sex
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with another woman outside of marriage, whatever it is, you know, there's this immediate gratification,
12:41
but there's, there's no long-term satisfaction.
12:43
Right.
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And I would say as well, in this, there's been some consternation about, wait, was Adam
12:50
really there though?
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Was he like there there?
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Was he like next to her there?
12:53
And I think that that can be put to bed because all of the use that are used in verses one
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through four, they're all plural, right?
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So all the, the use being used, that's him.
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That's him.
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Not implying that stating that Adam was there, like Adam was there when this was taking place
13:08
and we see no indication from the text that he was interceding on her behalf.
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And so yeah, perhaps he had started his watch.
13:16
Oh, I guess it's good to go.
13:17
But he had abdicated his responsibility because who was given the mandate right from the beginning,
13:23
he was given the mandate to protect and he allowed his side.
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He allowed the weaker vessel to basically dictate terms.
13:30
Well, the other thing to look at too is the fact that their eyes weren't opened until
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after he ate it.
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Right.
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It wasn't like she took a bite and her eyes were opened and she saw the horrors of good
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and evil.
13:41
Once he took the bite, their eyes were opened.
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So like he had the mandate.
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His job was different.
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Both of their eyes were opened at the same time.
13:46
That's first seven.
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Yeah.
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And so he had the mandate to protect his side and he didn't.
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He abdicated that job.
13:54
I think the other thing that's interesting here is, you know, what the serpent is promising
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them is wisdom, you know, that you, you will be like God.
14:04
You will know.
14:05
Right.
14:06
All the secrets.
14:07
Yeah.
14:08
And in just praying on the human need for power and control, you know, it's not enough
14:15
that we were given dominion over this earth.
14:21
We need to be able to control the outcomes that it produces and we just don't have that
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power.
14:29
It's this is, and to me, it's what makes this so sad because the fall is literally a desire
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to control outcomes where we literally, we could control an outcome and we have no idea
14:45
how that would manifest over history and God does.
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And I think that's important as well, okay, what exactly was Eve drawn to?
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We are told in verse six, it's explicitly, and I like a lot of different places will
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phrase it differently.
15:00
I like the phraseology used in the Reformation study Bible, but he was drawn to practical
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values.
15:06
Right.
15:07
That's good for food, aesthetic appreciation.
15:09
That's delight to the eyes and intellectual gratification makes one one wise.
15:14
And so if we go to first John two, 16, less of the flesh, less of the eyes, pride of life,
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boom, right there from the beginning.
15:21
And it's like, if we think of our temptations, is there another category that is more descriptive
15:27
than those three, less of the flesh, less of the eyes and pride of life?
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We can fit all of our temptations right into that box and right into that paradigm.
15:35
And then in verse seven, it wasn't just that they were naked as in their bits were out
15:39
for everybody to see.
15:40
It was that they were fully exposed to God's punishment and judgment for the first time.
15:47
So they didn't bodily die, but they spiritually died in that moment.
15:51
And their eyes were because you probably thought, did they even have a concept of life and
15:55
death?
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No, God said that for you will surely die.
15:58
They didn't even have a plausibility structure for what does die mean.
16:02
But in that moment, it became readily apparent that death came in the form of not the body,
16:07
but it was the soul that was dying and God didn't even fully get to that this point in
16:11
the text.
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He hasn't even fully elucidated what that death's going to look like.
16:14
But they knew that it sucked right from the beginning.
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Yeah.
16:17
And it's interesting.
16:18
You think, you know, okay, well, well, they didn't know what it meant to die.
16:22
They didn't know.
16:23
Okay.
16:24
Well, great.
16:25
Put your faith in God.
16:26
He's saying that die.
16:27
He knows a negative thing.
16:28
Right.
16:29
You will surely die.
16:30
Take him at his word.
16:31
Take him at his word.
16:32
That's exactly right.
16:33
Yeah.
16:34
There's just saying things that we are not supposed to know right now or maybe never.
16:36
I mean, I don't know, but like it's like God wants to sustain in our lane.
16:40
He has given us that lane and he wants us to abide and trust him that this is all built
16:45
around a distrust of who God is and what he has for each of them.
16:50
What's something to think about is like God walked with Adam and Eve.
16:53
Like if they just wanted to ask the questions, he probably would have answered them.
16:57
Yeah.
16:58
What do you know?
16:59
But they didn't even care to know.
17:00
Really.
17:01
Like what it was was it's just like, man, what you're saying sounds really nice.
17:04
Why didn't I think of that?
17:06
You know, this is what I deserve.
17:07
Why isn't God giving me what I think I deserve?
17:10
It's just a new perspective.
17:11
They didn't have.
17:12
They had no other perspective other than God and all of a sudden there was this other
17:16
perspective.
17:17
Yeah.
17:18
They're like, Oh, okay.
17:19
I've never thought about it that way.
17:20
One God could have been well within his rights to withhold an answer to a question.
17:24
Yeah.
17:25
Because if any of y'all have prayed and asked for something to be revealed to you and it
17:27
wasn't, that's a very frustrating thing.
17:29
But then there's also timing.
17:31
Haven't you prayed and asked for something only to get an answer a whole lot later when
17:34
you would experience something else or mature it in a way or God had revealed something
17:38
else to you.
17:39
So that's where I find comfort and it's not, it's not cold comfort, but I find comfort
17:42
in is the earth old or is it young?
17:45
God knows.
17:46
Yeah.
17:47
Is it, you know, full sovereignty or is it full free will?
17:50
God knows.
17:51
Yeah.
17:52
And so like we're going to find out probably in heaven at what percentage, you know, it
17:55
was this over that or was it both or how does that even exist outside of the time space
18:00
continuum and how do we do all this stuff?
18:02
We're going to figure it out there in the end and we're going to, it's going to be revealed
18:04
to us.
18:05
We can't judge salvation based off those two things.
18:07
Right.
18:08
Like you can't do that because you don't know why I'm from the John MacArthur school of judging
18:12
salvation in that no one has salvation unless you are John MacArthur.
18:16
He's the only one who's sweet enough fruit.
18:19
Can we talk about real quick how Adam blamed God and his wife rather than.
18:22
Bro.
18:23
Yeah.
18:24
Like let's go there.
18:25
So I mean, what are talking about nakedness?
18:26
Yeah.
18:27
Okay.
18:28
I'm going to talk about nakedness first.
18:29
All right.
18:30
Do you want to take us off?
18:31
I did.
18:32
No, no, no.
18:33
No.
18:34
So, you know, then, you know, they were naked before eating the fruit fruit, not ashamed.
18:39
After eating the fruit, they, they, they're now ashamed and there was, I mean, it's because
18:44
they were cloaked in righteousness.
18:47
What they shed was righteousness itself.
18:51
And it was interesting.
18:52
So they sewed together fig leaves.
18:55
So something interesting about fig leaves that when they are exposed to sunlight or
18:59
heat, they shrink to a quarter of their size.
19:02
Okay.
19:03
So they hide themselves with these fig leaves, but when God comes around, when God comes
19:10
around, they would shrink from the light that he would admit those fig leaves would shrink
19:15
and expose their sin.
19:18
And now you start thinking about, all right, well, what fig leaves am I using?
19:22
Well, I donate to this.
19:25
I do this charity.
19:27
I do, you know, I'm a good husband.
19:29
Yes.
19:30
So here's all of these fig leaves I'm sewing together to see, like, look how, look how
19:36
righteous I am.
19:38
And then when that gets exposed to the light of God on our day of judgment, they all wither
19:43
away.
19:44
I like that.
19:45
Yeah.
19:46
Shows our total gravity.
19:47
This is the shaft.
19:48
I know you.
19:49
Right.
19:50
There's a, yeah.
19:51
Anything that leads to total gravity is like Ryan Horn's favorite thing.
19:53
Because we have to realize we're to pray.
19:55
I agree, Ryan.
19:56
I don't get so mad.
19:57
Sorry.
19:58
I'm not mad.
19:59
I don't agree with it at this date.
20:00
No, I know.
20:01
I'm just like, I didn't even know the beauty of the gospel until I understood my own depravity
20:06
because I sat in a church that just told me everything I did when I went out and helped
20:10
homeless people or did this stuff.
20:11
I was a good person.
20:13
And I hung, I hung to that more than I hung to the cross, you know, and that's like, that's
20:19
where I just had to understand.
20:20
Sorry.
20:21
I get very fired up about the private.
20:22
No, you're saying the thing that is exactly right because I always will chastise pastors
20:27
who refuse to point out the depravity of the people that are in their church.
20:30
Specifically, as I've talked about a lot, a lot of pastors are terrified of the women
20:34
in their church, which is why they're terrified to talk about the subject of abortion because
20:37
they don't want a woman that's had an abortion in the room, which statistically speaking would
20:41
be a large, you know, portion of those women, they don't want those, those women to feel
20:45
bad.
20:46
And so what ends up happening is a lot of women leave churches feeling like they're not even
20:48
sinners.
20:49
Yeah.
20:50
Much less that they're depraved.
20:51
And again, I talk about Mother's Day versus Father's Day, Father's Day, we get ripped to
20:54
shreds, even though the church has done nothing for the previous three hundred and, you know,
20:58
64 days to prepare us to disciple our kids or, you know, do any of those types of things
21:02
or, you know, leave our wives or be the heads of our households.
21:06
But then the women, they leave just floating as they're on their way to Applebee's or just
21:09
like, man, I am just absolutely incredible.
21:11
My poop apparently does not stink at all.
21:13
And so I think, yeah, yeah, it's poopery at that moment for them, the literal kind, not
21:17
the stuff you spray in the toilet beforehand, but before we move on from what we were talking
21:21
about, I did want to get verse 12 and 13.
21:24
You want to talk about, this is probably, if Jocko Willing actually read the Bible, I
21:27
think these would be his two favorite verses because this is like the opposite of extreme
21:30
ownership.
21:31
Yeah.
21:32
So you've got Eve that is blaming.
21:36
So what Eve's doing in verse, I'll just read him 12 and 13, the man said, the woman
21:39
whom you gave me to be with me, she gave me the fruit of the tree and I ate it.
21:43
Just in case you forgot about, you know, the process, God, then verse 13, then the Lord
21:47
said to Lord God said to the woman, what is this that you have done?
21:51
The woman said the serpent deceived me and I hate.
21:54
And so that's like the perfect woman response because it's never that they're just at fault.
21:59
It's always, well, I'm sorry, I responded to what you did.
22:02
That's like, you know, the perfect thing.
22:03
It's not actually an apology.
22:04
It's like you're attaching to something that someone else did, but in this moment, the man
22:08
is not taking full responsibility because he's like, well, hey, you gave me this chick.
22:11
And the, you know, the chick is just basically like, Hey man, where, where did the serpent
22:15
come from?
22:16
Right.
22:17
He created the serpent.
22:18
Right.
22:19
It's not extreme ownership.
22:20
It's not.
22:21
He created it anyway.
22:22
No, I just thought it was crazy.
22:23
Like he just straight up blamed God first.
22:25
He's like, it was the woman you gave me, you know, when you put me to sleep and I woke
22:30
up and I had this thing next to me and then God's like, Oh, I also gave you dominion,
22:34
bro.
22:35
Right.
22:36
So like, it's like, you know, I just think it's funny.
22:38
Like even we all still do that now, you know, we'll all blame God for a certain situation
22:43
rather than blame ourselves.
22:44
And then we'll go and blame the next thing, which is our wife or somebody else.
22:48
And then that person's going to blame somebody else like the wife and I just got to fight,
22:52
you know, recently.
22:53
Ooh, do tell.
22:54
Oh, do tell.
22:55
Yeah.
22:56
It was, it's like something.
22:57
It was just stupid.
22:58
Like, uh, she was tired.
23:00
I was tired.
23:01
I think we had a rough day that day.
23:02
One of the kids wasn't feeling good.
23:04
The dog diarrhea in my office, like, and we were all worried about him doing it again.
23:11
And she comes like probably around like eight, eight 30.
23:14
And she's like, she wants to put this thing together about how to discipline our kids.
23:18
Like give them something to work on that we can do.
23:20
And like mentally, I'm just not in it.
23:23
And then you know how women are like women, like, careful, careful, you know, how they
23:28
just don't get right to the point, like they just like, yes, kind of like, you know, like
23:34
I want to go around it and around it.
23:37
And it was just like, I was like, I was just, I just got annoyed.
23:41
I think a little bit like, I was trying to figure it out and like, Hey, let's get this
23:44
knocked out.
23:45
So I don't think about it.
23:46
I got to think about something else.
23:47
And like she wanted me to sit there and listen to her.
23:50
And so I wish it would have came and talked to me about like a statement like, Hey, I
23:54
have some of these ideas.
23:55
Do you want to hear them?
23:56
I'm like, sure.
23:57
So I can listen and then we can go about what we need to do.
23:59
She's like, no, we need to sit down and think about these things.
24:02
Did you, did you not finish that chapter of love and respect that you were supposed to
24:05
in Sunday school?
24:06
Probably not.
24:07
Sunday school, by the way, Sunday school, Sunday school, you've beaten gone a couple
24:13
of days.
24:14
Yeah.
24:15
I got reasons.
24:16
We'll talk late.
24:17
No, it's not.
24:18
That's not chastised.
24:19
No one's really interested in that.
24:20
Like getting on me for not reading that chapter.
24:21
No, but, but like, so, so, you know, I go automatically blaming her about not giving
24:29
me the right information rather than owning it and just saying, Hey, I should have seen
24:32
that she's in a vulnerable state, whatever it is and try to talk to her about it.
24:36
And then she went in blaming me on certain things that I do that she doesn't like.
24:41
And then like we both went to bed angry that night and got up that next morning, she actually
24:45
wrote me a note saying, you know, I'm sorry that, you know, I was sometimes I'm scattered
24:50
brained and she gives me a hard time because I use words a lot.
24:53
Like I'm a talker.
24:54
I will talk.
24:55
And she's like, I got to remember that sometimes you're talking is an actual good thing with
25:00
my scattered brainness because it kind of brings things together rather than such a hitch
25:04
that I make it during a conversation.
25:06
And I'm like, I need to be more of a man to listen to your emotional needs and see where
25:10
you're at, you know, mentally and telling you, Hey, maybe this isn't the best time to talk
25:15
about it.
25:16
And maybe we should talk, you know, talk about it later.
25:18
So there's like so many things that, you know, we try to find in that moment the blame,
25:24
another person rather than just like look into ourselves and see how we can be better.
25:29
Yeah.
25:30
The only way in apology is actually legitimate.
25:32
Well, I guess two things, one, you have to actually mean it and two, it has to only deal
25:35
with you.
25:36
Yeah.
25:37
Right.
25:38
In terms of the delivery of the apology, the other person may have provided some sort of
25:41
stimulus that could lead to your response.
25:44
You can't apologize for somebody else.
25:45
You're only responsible for yourself.
25:47
I do want to get into verse 14 and 15 really 14 through 18.
25:52
There is so, so unbelievably much here.
25:55
But the first thing I want to get into is something that is just very interesting to me.
26:00
Because you know, I'm obsessed with, with verse 15, you know, we've sold, you know, Genesis
26:03
three, 15 shirts before where we have, you know, a lion fighting a serpent, you know,
26:08
verse 15.
26:09
This is referred to.
26:10
I've seen it a couple of different ways spelled.
26:11
So the, the Proto Van Gellium and the Proto even Gellion.
26:15
So this is the first gospel that we're getting right here.
26:18
The first gospel that's ever presented is in verse 15.
26:21
And we see this here, like all Satan can do to Jesus is cause him to suffer, which sounds
26:26
terrible.
26:27
But that's all he can do.
26:28
That's the maximum.
26:29
But Satan can be destroyed by Jesus.
26:32
And so we, we have that eternal struggle happening there.
26:35
But if we go back to verse 14, this is God talking to the certain because you have done
26:40
this cursed, are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field on your belly,
26:45
you shall go and dust, you shall eat all the days of your life.
26:48
So it's the ultimate indignity that's being delivered here, saying that you will go around
26:52
in the muck of the muck, you will be going around in the dirt.
26:55
But I think that this is very interesting.
26:57
So the word serpent in verse one of Genesis three can mean a lot of different things,
27:03
right?
27:04
So we just assume snake, but basically it means a lizardy reptilian figure of some kind now.
27:12
This is where it gets interesting.
27:13
Shut up, Ryan.
27:14
Let me describe this because we talked about a little bit.
27:16
We talked about a little bit off air and you got all huffy.
27:19
So here's the thing.
27:20
All right.
27:21
So here's the interesting thing.
27:23
If you look at any ancient drawings or cave paintings or things like that, there's always
27:28
a flying reptile of some kind.
27:31
We refer to it colloquially as a dragon.
27:34
So in this moment, we don't know this, but there are some schools of thought that say
27:39
the serpent was actually a dragon.
27:42
And in this moment, when God saying and above and above all the beasts of the field on your
27:47
belly, you shall go that perhaps the serpent previously had arms and legs previously had
27:55
wings and was much more powerful and grand.
27:58
And then in this moment, it was basically all that was taken away to where it could not
28:03
escape from its belly.
28:05
It could not run away from its belly.
28:07
It could not fly away from its belly, but it had to be on its belly and for the rest
28:11
of time slither on the earth.
28:12
So I found that to be very interesting because there's all this, you know, people that are
28:17
considering what about these ancient pagan cultures?
28:20
How do we have cultures that had no way of connecting to each other?
28:23
And you have, you know, a tribe in the Americas versus a tribe in Asia and they all have this
28:28
winged reptile that's like basically torturing and killing human beings.
28:33
How can all that be?
28:34
Well, there's pre incarnate or there was, you know, pre humanity evil in the world.
28:40
And somehow, because Adam and Eve is not the only thing that God's doing right in this
28:44
moment there.
28:45
God is doing things all over the earth.
28:47
Somehow they're, they couldn't have come up with the same story.
28:51
They had to have seen something that they then rendered into these paintings or drawings.
28:55
So again, that may seem a little tin foil, Hattie, but it's possible thoughts.
29:00
It's not possible.
29:01
Shut your mouth.
29:02
All right.
29:03
All right.
29:04
Jake, you get to go now because we got wet blanket over here.
29:06
Take them down, Jake.
29:07
I mean, okay, so I actually look at it.
29:10
I mean, I'm one of those that, I mean, again, young Arthur.
29:13
So I think dinosaurs were hanging out with humanity and we're here.
29:17
So I think a lot of those dragon depictions that you're seeing on walls are the result
29:21
of actually seeing dinosaurs around them.
29:25
And I mean, the reason they were extinct is I'm sure for humanity, it was pretty hostile
29:30
towards humans for dinosaurs, plus you have a flood, you know, preview to next some future
29:37
chapters here.
29:38
But the dinosaurs themselves, I mean, it was, it's interesting, you know, you're right.
29:44
There are dinosaurs.
29:45
There are these like dragon depictions for various civilizations that would not be interacting
29:51
with each other whatsoever.
29:53
And the first fossil I think ever discovered was like in the 1600s.
29:59
So you can't say, well, oh, they found these bones and this is how they ended up drawn
30:03
and because they just draw some conclusions from that didn't happen.
30:06
So why are they, why are we seeing these dragon depictions in various cultures throughout
30:12
time?
30:13
Well, it's because I personally, I think the dinosaurs are around and we saw them and we
30:19
just got rid of them really, really fast because we don't want to get eaten by them.
30:24
Revelation 12, seven.
30:27
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon and the dragon
30:32
as angels fought back, but he was defeated and there was no longer any place for them
30:35
in heaven.
30:36
And the great dragon was thrown down.
30:39
The ancient serpent who is called the devil in Satan, the receiver of the whole world
30:44
was thrown down to the earth and his angels were thrown down with him.
30:48
It's a dragon.
30:49
It's a dragon.
30:50
All right.
30:51
It's not a dragon.
30:52
You're wrong.
30:53
It's a dragon.
30:54
No, it's a dragon.
30:55
Hold on.
30:56
Why can't it be a dragon?
30:57
Yeah.
30:58
Why can't it be a dragon?
30:59
Because dragons existed out after the fall.
31:01
So if Satan, if Satan was a dragon, then when this went down, he would have lost his legs
31:09
and his wings.
31:10
And so outside of that, there's only one dragon.
31:12
There would be no more dragons.
31:13
You're assuming there's only one.
31:15
So I come back to the Moody commentary and the Moody commentary says this, the judgment
31:20
of crawling on his belly is not to be taken as meaning the serpent at one time had legs
31:25
and I would lose them just as there were rainbows before the flood and circumcision existed before
31:31
the Abrahamic covenant.
31:33
So crawling on the belly and eating dust are conditions previously descriptive of the
31:37
serpent but now given symbolic significance.
31:42
These actions will now represent complete defeat.
31:45
Dust you will eat.
31:46
Micah 717, they shall lick the dust like a serpent, like crawling things of the earth.
31:52
They shall come trembling out of their strongholds and they will turn in dread to the Lord God
31:58
and they shall be in fear of you.
32:00
And that is one person's opinion that there couldn't have been a dragon but you were assuming
32:04
that there was a dragon there and so it couldn't possibly have been known until after that.
32:11
So there's multiple dragons made and one deceived people and that's the so the snake
32:16
came from one dragon.
32:19
It's certainly possible.
32:20
You know what I'm looking at the text here, you can you can believe that and I'm totally
32:25
fine with it.
32:26
You want to judge your salvation, please judge it, judge it, let's get judged in a very
32:32
real way.
32:33
I mean God is stripping away the power from the serpent here and I would I mean it would
32:37
make a lot of sense.
32:38
It's like, well, I've stripped away, you know, what we might think dragons do, which is why
32:44
snakes don't really do much other than slither around and scare the crap out of people.
32:48
Snakes are more cursed.
32:49
Snakes are more cursed.
32:50
Nobody likes snakes.
32:51
The only people that like snakes for Egyptians and they were pagans.
32:56
Well, I mean, you're talking about generalizations within society.
32:59
Yeah, I mean, in generalization, nobody likes a snake and people do have pet snakes.
33:03
Yeah, those people are weird.
33:04
That was me.
33:05
College.
33:06
What?
33:07
You're weird dude.
33:08
I had a snake.
33:09
It wasn't mine.
33:10
It was my roommates.
33:11
His name was Miles.
33:12
It was a ball python.
33:13
Yeah.
33:14
Well, and what about the people that are using snakes during worship?
33:15
I always laugh when one of them gets bit.
33:17
I just got to be real honest.
33:18
It always makes me feel funny on the inside, but you have to acknowledge that it could
33:22
have been a dragon.
33:23
You may not think it was a dragon, but it could have been a dragon.
33:26
Is there a chance in one of those weird multi-universaries that you come up with?
33:29
No, no, no.
33:30
No, in this one.
33:31
No, in this one.
33:32
That it could be a dragon.
33:33
Not in Thanos' universe in this one.
33:34
I'm talking about.
33:35
That thing is probably a dragon.
33:36
Let me clarify your point of view.
33:37
So you're saying that dragons existed after the fall, and that's why we see dragons on
33:42
caves.
33:43
Yes.
33:44
I believe dragons existed out.
33:45
I believe like you, the dinosaurs.
33:47
Yes.
33:48
That's where dragons come from.
33:49
Okay.
33:50
But I believe that.
33:51
I'm just saying after the fall because there's dragons after the fall.
33:54
Now if a dragon, now you can say there was multiple species of dragons, and one of them
33:59
became a snake.
34:00
Like sure.
34:01
Okay.
34:02
Like one of them was forced to become a snake and lost all its cool powers, like walking
34:05
around and flying.
34:06
I'll feed into that, but the fact is that there's still dragons and there, there were
34:11
still dragons after the fall and there were still snakes, you know, there's still dinosaurs.
34:15
So it's kind of hard for me to say, yeah, this was a dragon.
34:17
It was just a species of dragon now that became a snake, but God already created snakes.
34:22
You know what I'm saying?
34:23
It's already created.
34:24
And so what he's pointing out is he's using a descriptive term of what a snake does and
34:28
like it's going to be eating more dust.
34:30
How do you know that snakes weren't created in that moment?
34:32
How do you know that snakes preceded this entire thing happening and described in Genesis
34:36
3?
34:37
Because snakes were created in that God created everything.
34:40
So why wouldn't he create a snake?
34:42
We're saying hold on.
34:43
Hold on.
34:44
Hold on.
34:45
Hold on.
34:46
Hold on.
34:47
You're talking about it.
34:48
I mean, he talks about kinds of animals.
34:49
Okay.
34:50
So I mean, Adam named a snake in a dragon.
34:52
Let's just say it was.
34:53
Hold on.
34:54
Did he?
34:55
Did he?
34:56
Did he?
34:57
Because you could say serpent kind because you could literally say a serpent could be
34:59
both with, you know, it could be very large.
35:02
It could be very small.
35:03
It's kind of like bear kind.
35:04
Okay.
35:05
If I got a bear kind of animal, that would be that would encompass any bear.
35:09
Yeah, it wouldn't say polar bear, grizzly bear, Kodiak, you know, all of these different types
35:14
of created the kinds.
35:15
What's this?
35:16
Correct.
35:17
What's a serpent kind?
35:18
Well, I don't know.
35:19
Serpent kinds of snake is a service.
35:20
It's not a lizard.
35:21
A lizard isn't called a serpent.
35:22
How do you know that?
35:24
Because if you go to the etymology of the word that is used, it is a reptile.
35:27
It's reptile.
35:28
A reptile.
35:29
A dragon.
35:30
I love it.
35:31
I love it.
35:32
I love it.
35:33
It seems to be enjoyed.
35:34
On a tree.
35:35
I mean, but I actually would agree with Kyle on that because it's reptile kind.
35:40
You could literally go and give me a kind reptile kind.
35:43
I would agree with you.
35:44
Yeah.
35:45
You said reptile kind.
35:46
Right.
35:47
Not serpent.
35:48
You've got logos open.
35:49
You've got logos open.
35:49
Do a word study of serpent.
35:52
There are a lot of different things to suggest.
35:53
And again, dragon is described in the Bible.
35:56
Why in the world would this potentially be no possibility that it had that beforehand?
36:01
Just because Moody said so, you keep doing your study, we will move forward because we're
36:06
going to lose time here.
36:07
Okay.
36:08
Let's talk about verse 16.
36:09
The woman to the woman, he said, this is God talking to the woman, I will surely multiply
36:13
your pain and childbearing and in pain.
36:15
You shall bring forth children.
36:17
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband.
36:20
No, to quote the Moody commentary, which probably wrong.
36:23
Yeah.
36:24
You're quoting the Moody.
36:26
Now you're quoting the Moody.
36:27
I love the Moody.
36:28
I'm actually looking up certain on logos.
36:30
Hey, do it quietly because we need to move this train along.
36:33
Go for it.
36:34
Yeah.
36:35
Yeah.
36:36
It could be.
36:37
It looks like a dragon.
36:38
I see a dragon.
36:39
So desire here, when they're talking about desire, that is, you know, your psychological
36:42
desire to dominate and control her husband.
36:46
That is what is given to her in this moment.
36:49
This is literally the birth of feminism.
36:51
Okay.
36:52
Okay.
36:53
So here's the thing.
36:55
So in our, in our modern age in the last, you know, couple of centuries, there are four
36:59
waves of feminism.
37:00
So first, second, third, now we're in fourth.
37:02
First wave feminism, that's suffrage, right?
37:04
So, you know, equal rights to vote, that type of thing.
37:07
Second wave of feminism is a sexual revolution.
37:11
So sex with as many partners as possible, birth, birth control, those types of things.
37:16
Third wave is women are actually not equal to men.
37:19
They're better than men, and there's really no use for men.
37:23
And now we're getting into fourth wave, which is basically this confusion between what is
37:27
a woman and where do the rights of people that think they're a woman in to begin, right?
37:32
That's where fourth wave feminism is right now.
37:34
It's still got some of the suffrageous movement.
37:37
It's still got some of the sexual revolution.
37:38
It's still got some of the women are actually better than men.
37:41
We don't really need men.
37:42
And then it's got all this other stuff kind of added into it.
37:45
We're on a fourth wave is going to kill third wave.
37:47
Well, right, because you can't have transgenderism and superiority of the feminine or the eternal
37:53
feminine at the same time.
37:55
So that's the interesting thing about this is, yes, pain and childbearing, all that type
37:59
of stuff.
38:00
But I wasn't being funny or tongue in cheek like this is the birth of feminism.
38:04
This is where the person who is made or the being that was made to be a health mate at
38:09
the side of the man is now going to have a natural innate desire and drive to ultimately
38:16
destroy.
38:17
It is.
38:18
It is funny to me right now because, you know, after the post election, you saw this four
38:22
B movement that came out and I was, you know, Stacy and I were watching some, you know,
38:29
just some of the meltdown videos on YouTube.
38:32
And I don't know if that's very Christian of me, but honestly, it's great entertainment.
38:36
But we were watching some of the meltdown videos in the four B movement, you know, taking place
38:41
and I'm just going like, okay, so basically I'm hearing you're wiping out.
38:48
Fourth wave, third wave, now second wave feminism to the point that you're going all the way
38:53
back to like, I'm not sleeping with a man.
38:55
I'm not doing this.
38:56
I'm literally going like, this sounds great.
38:59
I'm being voted in literally like start, like stopped abortions, you know, like those ladies
39:07
aren't going to be able to abort their kids.
39:08
Right?
39:09
You know, like they're basically talking about abstinence.
39:10
Yeah.
39:11
It's like abstain, please.
39:12
Wait till you're married.
39:13
We love that.
39:14
I read that.
39:15
I read this thing right here.
39:16
And you know who I automatically thought of.
39:18
Where's that?
39:19
You know, who you remember her?
39:21
Remember the one who would not debate you?
39:24
Oh my gosh.
39:25
Coby's.
39:26
Demes, Demes, and just thought about like, man, like she just wants to take the patriarchy
39:32
down.
39:33
And she doesn't want to stand up to someone who is apparently patriarchy incarnate.
39:38
So she still owes me a debate.
39:40
She's like, she's like the epitome of what this verse is though, like her whole goal
39:45
is to be above a man's leadership, like there's no biblical basis behind what her argument
39:52
is other than to take down God's actual design.
39:55
Yeah.
39:56
I mean, we see it right here from the beginning because a woman cannot answer why she has this
40:02
innate desire or pull or bend to tug away from the man and not be beside the man and
40:09
to be the helpmate.
40:11
A lot of women have to develop that muscle.
40:14
Even the ones that have a natural, you know, the natural kind of pioneer woman, kind of
40:18
like, oh, you know, they're just going to serve the husband.
40:21
They're still in a nateness to the fact that they don't want to do that.
40:25
And then there's the whisper of culture, which is actually this is causing you harm.
40:30
This is actually not something that you should be doing.
40:32
You should be standing up for yourself.
40:33
Yeah.
40:34
I've got it.
40:35
I've got a thought on this.
40:36
Just come on a practical standpoint.
40:37
So, you know, as a man, life is very busy and you guys, I don't know how old your kids
40:44
are, but as your kids are getting older, their lives get a bit more busy.
40:48
There's a lot more complexities.
40:50
So one of the things that we're doing in our home, and this is a good way for the man
40:53
to kind of take charge, in my opinion, is to create a space where you guys can talk.
40:58
You and your wife can talk and figure out what one, what you guys have going on throughout
41:03
the week.
41:05
And then two, whether there needs to be adjustments to whatever the house rules are or what the
41:10
kids need or don't need or whatever, so you can support them.
41:14
Because what we found at times is that if we don't have those conversations, if we're
41:19
not on the same page, then I'm at work or it's easy for my wife to get into a mode of just
41:25
making decisions.
41:26
I have no problem with her making decisions.
41:28
But there are times where it's like, "Hey, maybe we should go talk about this before."
41:33
And so there have been, we've gotten in a conflict where there is, because I'm a thinker, she's
41:38
a reactor, and so literally a kid could be asking a question to go do something and it's
41:44
already predetermined in her mind what the answer is going to be and it's coming out
41:48
of her mouth where I'm thinking it through like what is this actually, maybe there's
41:53
something to discuss here.
41:54
So what happens is there is this reactive no or yes or whatever it is.
42:00
And I have no say in that moment.
42:03
And it's very frustrating because it's like, "Well, I actually had a thought on this."
42:08
But in this moment, you have just made this decision and then if I say anything different
42:13
or I'm like a contractor to that, then all of a sudden I'm the guy trying to be the good
42:18
guy in that moment and save the day, rest of the kids, put down my wife, whatever.
42:23
Anyways, that's a cycle you could easily get into, however, if you have these conversations
42:27
or say, "Hey, let's hit the pause button before you react and say whatever you're going to
42:31
say."
42:32
So just go talk about it and then we'll come back and deliver a unified answer, whatever
42:37
that is, which means behind closed doors.
42:40
I don't know, I'm looking at this as somebody in a company, you can't have 50/50 ownership
42:47
because you have a stalemate, right?
42:48
So somebody's got to have the upper hand on this a little bit and we might have to look
42:52
at this as this has nothing to do with a man trying to dominate a woman.
42:56
This is like literally, we're like, "Well, just say 50.1 versus 49.9," whatever, it doesn't
43:02
matter.
43:03
But somebody's got to be able to help make the final decision.
43:06
Hopefully, the way that you guys are unified is that you're coming to covermines that are
43:12
already in this, I mean, they're just nuanced, as opposed to hard, yes, hard, no, and then
43:18
where the heck do we go from there?
43:19
But anyways, all that to be said, I just think there can be a process where a man can lead
43:26
and what we do too is then when we will have that discussion and it's like, "Okay, let's
43:30
bring the kids in Sunday night.
43:31
All right, here's what we got going on this week.
43:33
What do you guys have going on?
43:35
Who has tests this week?
43:36
Anybody have anything that's due?
43:37
Let's get that all out there and let's create a plan."
43:40
And then, "Oh, by the way, man, I take the opportunity to share a verse, something I've
43:45
learned so I can lead in that respect as well."
43:49
Anyways, it's just a good way for a man to overall take a leadership role in the decision
43:55
making and to be unified on the same page with this wife, who may be a little bit different.
43:59
And we have to see where did the curses for each of the man and the woman come from?
44:04
So in verses 16 to 17, the man's curse became, because he didn't listen to God and because
44:09
he abandoned his role as a leader and listened to his wife.
44:11
He fabricated his responsibility.
44:13
Right.
44:14
That's where his curse came from.
44:15
The curse came because she acted independently of her husband, right?
44:18
So she made the decision technically for the both of them because they were standing there.
44:24
And so again, people would be like, "Well, that seems unequal."
44:26
No, it seems unequal to your modern years, your modern years that have been basically
44:29
marinating in this feminist culture, but ultimately you have to look at the right ordering of
44:35
things.
44:36
They were created at different times separately, but equal.
44:40
And so as we elucidate that out into how we respond in a familial aspect, the man and
44:46
the woman are equal, but they're not given the same responsibilities.
44:49
They're not given the same directives or the same dictates.
44:52
But again, I think it bears repeating.
44:53
The man's curse was that he didn't listen to a God explicitly told him to do and not
44:57
to do and then he abandoned his role as leader by listening to his wife and the wife acting
45:03
contrary to her husband basically made the decision independently of his leadership.
45:08
And now he has a responsibility there to interject himself into that process, you know, before
45:13
sin get into the world.
45:15
So he abdicated it there as well.
45:17
But that's an important thing as we discuss this this past scripture.
45:19
How many times are we as men continually do that because of our culture?
45:23
Like, I had to come to that conclusion in like 2018 that I was abdicating my role as
45:29
a husband and as a father to my wife spiritually, you know, the spiritual role in our family.
45:35
You know, like, Hey, I can go out there and make the money, make sure you all live in
45:38
a nice house and do all the things that you want to do.
45:42
But what am I doing to fulfill them spiritually?
45:44
Which is what Adam should have been doing with his wife and he didn't.
45:47
And with this feminist movement that we're seeing through Kobe's Dume or whoever may be
45:53
out there is that they're, they're seeking men to abdicate that and give it up to them.
45:59
And if you don't give it up to them, then you're not seeing the 50 50 of this thing.
46:04
And, and that's where it's just like men, that's where you got to stand up.
46:06
Like if your church is very feminine, you know what I'm saying?
46:10
It's not really built towards you.
46:11
That doesn't give you an excuse not to be the spiritual leader of your house.
46:15
Adam, it tells you you need to work a little bit harder on what needs to be done and then
46:19
see what you can do within the church to volunteer.
46:21
I do.
46:22
I do think it's interesting here the, this is kind of the first instance of God giving
46:29
them what they wanted good and hard.
46:30
Yeah.
46:31
I mean, Eve makes a decision on behalf of the husband and what is her punishment?
46:38
Her desire is now going to be contrary to her husband.
46:42
The husband eats of a fruit, eats the fruit of a tree in which he was forbidden to eat
46:46
and yet everything else that he was given to eat grew freely without his work.
46:52
And now because you had to eat of this tree, everything else that you ate now comes by
46:58
the sweater, your braille and from your toil.
47:01
It's like you couldn't appreciate what I was giving you to eat.
47:05
So now you're going to have to appreciate it because of the own work and labor that
47:09
you're going to put into it.
47:11
I think it's, you know, again, sometimes whenever we do act contrary to God's will,
47:18
it's going to give us what we want.
47:20
Yeah.
47:21
Yeah.
47:22
I mean, look at the hardening of Pharaoh's heart.
47:24
It's like you, you act contrary to God's will for you and his promptings eventually
47:28
God's going to be like, all right, we'll do it your way and we're going to do a good
47:30
heart.
47:31
So have fun with that.
47:32
You're going to get a face full of it.
47:34
As we get to the end of Genesis three, when we get into, okay, we go from one cloth to,
47:40
where we go from the fig leaves to the loin cloth.
47:43
So we have dead animals, right?
47:46
So I've seen both schools of thought.
47:48
I've seen that human beings were created to be vegetarians, right?
47:51
So no need to, to have the animals slaughtered for their betterment.
47:56
But in this moment, God sacrifices animals because it says that God and the Lord God
48:02
made for Adam and his wife garments of skin and clothed them.
48:06
So there had to be a sacrifice in order to kind of reestablish or restore what was lost
48:10
in the fall.
48:11
So we see that.
48:12
And I did like how the Moody commentary talked about what is true atonement.
48:17
It's blood sacrifice.
48:18
The animals had to be killed, which was a shedding of blood to God provides the sacrifice.
48:23
He's he's the one that that puts it there to begin with in three atonement is permanent,
48:27
right?
48:28
So there's a permanent atonement, right?
48:30
And so I thought that it was just an interesting thing there that you go from even what you
48:33
said, Jake earlier about fig leaves and about what they attempted to do.
48:37
They attempted to cover themselves and you think about that in a in a gospel context.
48:42
What do we do to try to make ourselves seem worthy, right?
48:45
We're going to live a good life.
48:46
We're going to be a good person, whatever that means, which is different culturally,
48:50
by the way.
48:51
And so there's no like agreed upon.
48:52
This is good.
48:53
This is not good, but that God ultimately is the only one that can provide you the covering
48:57
that is permanent, right?
48:59
And that is, you know, the shed blood of Christ on the cross, which becomes a propitiation
49:03
for our sin debt and all those things.
49:04
So I thought that was a, an interesting thing to talk about as well.
49:07
Yeah, I mean, send requires blood.
49:10
Yeah.
49:11
I mean, it just, it's, it's that simple and again, this is in a very real way.
49:19
This is just a, a glimpse into the gospel.
49:24
What did Christ blood do for us?
49:26
I mean, it atone for all of those sins.
49:29
So we were washed clean in his blood.
49:32
So I think it's great to look at is that God made the clothes for them.
49:37
So he covered them first act of mercy.
49:39
Yeah.
49:40
And so he covered them because they're, like their fig leaves weren't doing the job.
49:44
So he said, and he made the blood sacrifice.
49:47
He created the clothes, put them on him.
49:48
So he covered them.
49:50
And so, you know, we go back and we look at it and Christ covers our sin, you know, through
49:54
his blood and not just, you know, he covers our sin, but like we're going to die about
50:02
that spiritual consciousness that we have that, that links us to God will forever be saved
50:06
through him.
50:07
And at this point, when they're walking out, that's gone, you know, that the covering that
50:12
they have now is not covering their, their, their spiritual, their spiritualness.
50:17
It's just covering their, their mortal flesh.
50:20
Well, and you also see in an order there too, like they did something that was against what
50:24
God had commanded them.
50:26
There is punishment, but then there was also this act of mercy, right?
50:30
So it's, he still, I still love you.
50:31
I love you.
50:32
And I'm doing these things for you, but you're going to have to live with the consequences
50:37
of your actions as opposed to just covering it over and being like, I, I know you messed
50:42
up.
50:43
I mean, there's, there's punishment for their actions.
50:45
And I think that's, that's important to note, right?
50:48
And also we see we've talked a lot in this episode about the application of responsibility.
50:54
Verse 24, he drove out the man and at the east of the garden of Eden, he placed a cherubim
50:58
and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way of the tree of life.
51:03
So an angel, right, an internal being, I guess, has to take over the duty that was originally
51:10
assigned to man, right?
51:13
And so as we see it, I can't remember the exact reference, but other places, the angels
51:16
actually wish that they were us.
51:18
So that's why I always find it just very disheartening when people are like, when someone dies and
51:22
it's like, well, they're an angel now.
51:23
It's like, nope, nope.
51:24
And they wouldn't even, the angels would be like, no, you don't want to be us.
51:27
Like, we wish we could be all because you have a different, you know, a different way
51:31
to the father that we serve.
51:33
And so again, when you abdicate responsibility and your role to the 95% of our audience that
51:39
is men, like this is a major issue, right?
51:42
And it leads to some serious and real world downstream consequences as well.
51:48
Other thoughts on this part right here or parting thoughts on Genesis three, whatever
51:53
you want to hit.
51:54
And this, because I hear this argument a lot that, you know, with the, with the tree of
52:00
knowledge that we were forbidden to eat, there's, there's a lot of people that like to try
52:05
and act like God was trying to keep us ignorant.
52:08
Like that was some sort of power play that our knowledge of good and evil is some, you
52:13
know, us knowing what evil would be is somehow bad or some somehow like it would be good
52:21
for us to know what is evil whenever we were living in a life, you know, we were living
52:25
a life of nothing but it was just life and good.
52:29
And then the knowledge that we gained was knowledge of evil and death.
52:33
And I started to think about how we parent in kind of the same way.
52:37
You think about the things that you don't expose to your children, okay?
52:41
You know, like maybe I really like certain types of movies that have some violence in
52:47
it, but I don't want my kids to watch that.
52:50
You know, I don't maybe say bad words around my kids.
52:54
I don't listen to certain type of music around my kids and it's in time they're going to
53:00
get exposed to a lot of this in time.
53:04
They're going to gain that knowledge.
53:05
But as a parent, I'm trying to guard my children against what I would consider evil things
53:13
in the world, bad things.
53:16
And that might range for different people, but even people who aren't Christians are
53:19
trying to shield their kids from the certain things that they don't think are okay.
53:24
And in a very real way, that's what God's doing with Adam and Eve.
53:27
I'm shielding you from this knowledge of these bad things.
53:32
And I don't want you to know about them because I am trying to love you and give you nothing
53:38
but good.
53:39
Amen to that.
53:41
Other thoughts, Genesis 3?
53:43
I mean, I think when it comes down to it, it's just, you know, the fall is the fall.
53:49
You know, man decided to do things on his own without God and decided not to take responsibility.
53:58
And now we're in the place that we are now and that sin is in this world.
54:03
But I find love and grace through the fall and the fact that God sent his son to die
54:10
on the cross for us so that we are covered with his blood so we can be with him eternally.
54:15
You know, Adam and Eve are pushed out of the garden.
54:17
They're no longer allowed towards the tree of life.
54:19
And so, you know, they're going to die someday and they were going to die spiritual death
54:24
and they had no idea what that spiritual death was going to look like.
54:28
And we have hope in that now through Christ at that spiritual death and believing in him,
54:32
we are going to be at one with the Father again.
54:34
Yeah, and I think about, I think it's Cain in chapter 4 saying when he receives a curse,
54:42
he said, "This is more than I can bear."
54:45
It makes me wonder if even Adam were thinking that same thing, like what you just said,
54:50
"God is more than I can bear."
54:52
And then his act of mercy gave them hope.
54:55
And of course, we have hope through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
54:59
So we are, like you said, we live in a fallen world, we have this expectation based on what
55:05
God said here.
55:06
It is a struggle, but the fight is worth it.
55:11
We should not just look at this as defeat, but we should look at what God has done and
55:16
completed and allow that to be our motivation to day in and day out, engage in that fight
55:24
and continue resiliently throughout life to accomplish his mission.
55:29
Well, we've had a great discussion about Genesis 3, but I think the one thing that we can all
55:33
come away agreeing on is that Satan was definitely a dragon and then became a serpent, so I think
55:38
we're all on the same page there.
55:40
But guys, come back next week, ready to discuss chapter 4 of Genesis.
55:44
So come through, ready, read all the way through that so we can be ready to discuss that.
55:49
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