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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 25 (Ep. 748)

April 27, 2025 1h 0m Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 25 (Ep. 748)
0:00 / 1h 0m
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive into Genesis 25, exploring the lives of Abraham, Isaac, and the birth of Jacob and Esau. We discuss the implications of Esau selling his birthright for a bowl of stew and how this reflects our own struggles with valuing spiritual over earthly things.
Transcript
1112 segments
0:00 "This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:24 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:26 Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:28 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
0:31 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
0:34 At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
0:37 by digging into God's Word.
0:38 We're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
0:40 That's Winkler.
0:41 That's Matt.
0:42 That's Eric.
0:43 Eric, what is that?
0:44 Oh, that's Go Lightly.
0:45 It's time.
0:46 Is that like an anecdote or because that is, you know, for those of you that are just out
0:49 there listening to this in podcast listener land, there is an enormous one gallon fancy
0:54 looking thing that looks, this looks like something you should pour in your car.
0:57 This is not a new sponsor.
0:58 Yeah.
0:59 Not a new sponsor.
1:00 No, not a new sponsor show.
1:01 You too.
1:02 When you're 45 years old, you could have some Go Lightly in your van.
1:06 Okay.
1:07 So what does Go Lightly do?
1:08 Well, it's kind of like colon blow.
1:10 Are you familiar with colon?
1:11 Colon cocaine?
1:12 No, no.
1:13 Maybe.
1:14 That's not just, we're cleaning the pipes.
1:19 Clean the pipes.
1:20 I've got a colonoscopy tomorrow.
1:21 And they told me to start it actually about an hour and a half ago, so I'm delaying it
1:25 just a bit.
1:26 And that is, that's going to, that's going to get you ready to go for tomorrow.
1:30 Yeah.
1:31 We're not even like sure that we're, I'm not sure I'm going to make it through this whole
1:33 thing for I had it right.
1:34 You have to get up.
1:35 Yeah.
1:36 Well, you know, I mean, we'll say I want to bet on it because I don't, I don't think
1:41 you will.
1:42 You don't think I'll make it?
1:43 You will not make it.
1:44 For this entire taping?
1:45 No, there's no way.
1:46 No way.
1:47 Okay.
1:48 That would make you technically the third person to get up in the middle of this because
1:50 Zach Todd was the first person he got up and went peepee in the middle of a recording.
1:54 And then I made so much fun of them.
1:56 And you know who was second me because I got him like I was really sick and I had gotten
2:01 these IVs and like 10, 15 minutes into a podcast recording.
2:05 I'm like, there's a zero percent chance that I'm not that I like, I got to get up and pee
2:09 right now.
2:10 I'm going to pee right here in the middle of it, but you're, you're, you're basically
2:12 taking the action that there's no way he makes it zero chance, zero chance, zero, take my
2:16 first sip right now.
2:18 Okay.
2:19 Problem is he sitting next to me.
2:20 So if he tries to really hold it, like this is going to be, it's not going to be a problem
2:23 for you.
2:24 That does not taste good.
2:26 No, it's horrible.
2:27 It tastes horrible.
2:28 Can I smell it?
2:29 I mean, I don't know.
2:30 There's a smell.
2:31 Is there a smell?
2:32 No.
2:33 Is that all that's just might make you put your pants?
2:34 That, yeah.
2:35 That thing is my smelling.
2:36 That thing's main goal.
2:37 That's great.
2:38 That thing's main goal is to get out of your body as quick as possible.
2:41 No, it smells good.
2:42 It smells fruity.
2:43 That's it.
2:44 Yeah.
2:45 Okay.
2:46 I'll take it.
2:47 Oh, well, maybe it's leftover from that.
2:48 The salt.
2:49 Oh, it just gave me the real thing.
2:50 Give me the source here.
2:51 You know what, I did put a lemon packet.
2:56 It's just next time we can just all chug the lightly and see how long it will be next.
3:01 It's like, hey, we did milk chugging contest when I was in high school, a little bit of
3:07 milk chugging.
3:08 I did put a little lemon packet in there that they gave me.
3:10 Okay, yeah.
3:11 I can't get the smell of it.
3:12 Keep putting crap in the light packet in that or in that.
3:15 It sounds like a list.
3:16 It sounds like a list.
3:17 I did put a lemon thing in there.
3:18 It's yesterday.
3:19 Yeah.
3:20 Yeah.
3:21 Well, it smells like lemony water.
3:22 So I don't know what the actual thing smells like, so apparently I've got to go 10 ounces
3:27 every 10 minutes or something like that.
3:29 Zero.
3:30 Oh, wow.
3:31 How far is your drive from here to get home?
3:32 Mmm.
3:33 Five minutes.
3:34 Yeah, that's awesome.
3:35 Yeah, we are.
3:36 Yeah.
3:37 Zero percent chance you make it through.
3:38 Jake says.
3:39 Zero.
3:40 Just like there's a zero percent chance of you spending a turn of your health.
3:42 If you are in Christ, boom, and that is the grass mired transition.
3:47 That is trade market guys.
3:48 And so guys, we're getting into Genesis 25 today.
3:51 It is quite the chapter.
3:52 We're going to be spending the hour here.
3:55 So hopefully you are red up and ready to go.
3:57 So since this is the longest part, just in case you have an attack of bowels, I want
4:02 you to read this because like if you have to like run in the middle of the first, because
4:06 you're doing the first 28 versus of this.
4:09 Okay.
4:10 So I'm trying to like extend it out just a little bit here.
4:13 Okay.
4:14 Versus.
4:15 You're going to make it.
4:16 We're going to make it.
4:17 We're going to make it.
4:18 Genesis 25.
4:19 We're going to make it to the 28.
4:22 You okay with that?
4:23 All right.
4:24 It's fine.
4:25 I mean, like.
4:26 Because it's going to take you about five minutes just to get through the names in the
4:27 first, like 18 versus a lot of names.
4:29 I got this.
4:30 Okay.
4:31 You got it.
4:32 I'm going to hear the grumbling around here.
4:33 Abraham took another wife whose name was Katura.
4:41 She bore him.
4:42 Jokshan met Midan, Midian, Ishbach, and Shua, Jokshan, Father Chiba, and Dedan.
4:51 The sons of Dedan were Ashiram, Latusham, and Lumen.
4:57 The sons of Midian were Efath, Ephir, Hanak, Abida, and Elda.
5:03 All these were children of Katura.
5:05 Abraham gave all he had to Isaac, but to the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts.
5:12 And while he was still living, he sent them away from his son Isaac eastward to the East
5:17 country.
5:19 These are the days of the years of Abraham's life, 175 years.
5:24 Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and
5:30 was gathered to his people, Isaac and Ishmael, his sons, buried him in the cave of Meccapala.
5:35 In the field Ephron, the son of Zohar, the Hittite, east of Mamrie.
5:41 The field that Abraham purchased from the Hittites.
5:45 Their Abraham was buried with Sarah, his wife.
5:49 After the death of Abraham, God blessed Isaac, his son, and Isaac settled at Beer-Lahai-Roy.
5:56 These are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, who, Hagar, the Egyptian, Sarah's servant
6:02 bore to Abraham.
6:03 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, named in the order of their birth, Nabyoth,
6:09 The Firstborn of Ishmael, and Kedar, Abdiil, Mibsam, Mishma, Duma, Masah, Heidad, Timah,
6:18 Jitur, Naftish, and Katama.
6:22 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names by their villages and their encampments,
6:28 12 princes according to their tribes.
6:31 These are the years of the life of Ishmael, 137 years.
6:35 He breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people.
6:38 They settled from Havelah to Shor, which is opposite Egypt in the direction of Assyria.
6:44 He settled over against all his kinsmen.
6:46 Pause.
6:47 If you had to take a dog name from the first 18 verses of Genesis 25, all right, you got
6:54 to pick the best one and the audience will vote, okay?
6:56 And once it's taken, it's off the board.
6:59 So I'm taking, I'm taking Hey Dad, because that's like, you know, your dog's like, Hey
7:04 Dad, right?
7:05 H-A-D-A-D.
7:06 Hey Dad.
7:07 I love it.
7:08 Um, um, Abdiil?
7:09 Abdiil?
7:10 Abdiil?
7:11 Abdiil?
7:12 Abdiil.
7:13 One more time.
7:14 Abdiil.
7:15 Abdiil.
7:16 Spell it.
7:17 Ad, B-E-E-L.
7:18 All right.
7:19 Have fun yelling that across the dog park.
7:23 Sheba.
7:24 Sheba.
7:25 Oh.
7:26 That's a good one.
7:27 That's probably been a dog name.
7:28 I have to think.
7:30 Um, I'm going with Kedama.
7:32 Kedama.
7:33 You see?
7:34 That's not bad.
7:35 I think that's what my stomach just did.
7:37 I don't know.
7:38 Yeah.
7:39 See, the thing is, is I, I can hear what's happening on this side of the table.
7:42 I swear I don't see it.
7:44 L-A-Hiroi.
7:45 Yeah.
7:46 You just ran right through that one, just like that stuff was about to run right through
7:49 your body.
7:50 Do you have to drink all of it?
7:52 Half of it, and then half in the morning.
7:54 Okay.
7:55 All right.
7:56 Well, all right.
7:57 I'm sorry.
7:58 I busted that up.
7:59 Go ahead and start 19.
8:00 These are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son.
8:02 Abraham fathered Isaac, and Isaac was 40 years old when he took Rebecca, the daughter
8:06 of Bethuel, the Aramean of Padam Aram, the sister of Laban, and the Aramean to be his wife.
8:14 And Isaac prayed to the Lord for his wife because she was barren.
8:17 And the Lord granted his prayer, and Rebecca, his wife, conceived.
8:22 The children struggled together within her, and she said, "If it is thus, why is this
8:27 happening to me?"
8:28 So she went to inquire of the Lord, and the Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your
8:34 womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided.
8:38 The one shall be stronger than the other.
8:40 The other shall serve the younger."
8:42 When her days to give birth were completed, behold, there were twins in her womb.
8:47 The first came out red, all his body, like a hairy cloak, so they called his name Esau.
8:54 Afterwards, his brother came out with his hand holding Esau's heel, so his name was
8:59 called Jacob.
9:00 Isaac was 60 years old when she bore them.
9:04 When the boys grew up, Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field, while Jacob was
9:08 a quiet man, dwelling in tents.
9:11 Isaac loved Esau because he ate of his game, but Rebecca loved Jacob.
9:17 So this is the first ginger mentioned in all of scripture, so shout out to Esau.
9:21 Am I here in your stomach?
9:22 Because I literally had to pull part of my headphones off.
9:24 Is that what's happening?
9:25 Are you sure?
9:26 I don't know.
9:27 Are you sure?
9:28 I don't think so.
9:29 Not yet.
9:30 That's the bubble got going on over there.
9:32 So guys, go with the first 28 verses of Genesis 25.
9:36 How are you like?
9:37 Ready, set go.
9:38 Ready, set go.
9:39 Well, it was interesting that Hagar and Gatura are both called concubarians because I didn't
9:48 wouldn't think that Abraham would get remarried and then that Gatura we call a concubine.
9:54 I get it with Hagar, but maybe it's just a show of lesser status and that Sarah was
9:59 his primary wife, original wife, and don't he make pickup on that?
10:05 Yeah, that is interesting because he's not married in, yeah, I don't know.
10:11 I don't get any indication that he actually had concubines outside of just being with
10:17 Hagar originally and then Sarah and then Gatura.
10:20 Yeah.
10:21 This appears to be, I mean, in the Bible, it sure is.
10:27 It has to guess this is the first time that Isaac and Ishmael are back together for the
10:33 burial of Abraham.
10:34 Yeah, because there was quite the dispute, you know, because obviously Ishmael was 16
10:39 or 17 when Isaac was born, then you have a problem with descendants and, you know, first
10:43 born heirs and that kind of stuff.
10:46 Yeah, I wonder the vibe in that room, how that went, you know.
10:53 It's interesting that it's in there, intentionally in there.
10:57 I think it's interesting, Ishmael's mother Hagar was told he will live in hostility towards
11:01 all his brothers back in chapter 16, verse 12.
11:07 And Abraham was assured he would father 12 rulers.
11:13 So both predictions came true that Ishmael did live in hostility towards his brothers
11:22 and Abraham that he would father 12 rulers, both of those.
11:26 And so both of those were pretty relatively, I mean, those are minor promises that God
11:31 made to Abraham.
11:32 So when, you know, how much more sure would he be that he would fill the much greater
11:37 promises made to Isaac, who was the actual chosen son?
11:43 So I do think that was, I think that's a bit interesting.
11:46 Again, I think the dynamic, you know, of the centuries of hostility between when you trace
11:52 back the Islamic faith to Ishmael and the Christian and Jewish faith back to Isaac.
12:00 I find it very, it's a fascinating dichotomy because you do kind of see where all of this
12:06 is rooted.
12:07 I just, it's a very, it's, it's an interesting historical study.
12:12 Great.
12:14 I think the other thing, the, you know, kind of moving to the second part that Eric read
12:23 there, the, the birth of Esau, Esau and Jacob, the two nations are in your room.
12:27 The older will serve the younger.
12:32 Jacob comes out grabbing Esau's heel, literally from birth Esau's serving his younger brother,
12:39 helping him get out of the womb.
12:40 Yeah.
12:41 And his name means con man, does it not?
12:44 Yeah.
12:45 Deceiver.
12:46 Yeah.
12:47 I've always loved this part of the Bible.
12:48 My namesake in the Bible, Jacob.
12:51 Thanks, mom and dad.
12:55 But I think it's Esau, I also like the Esau, it points out that he was red and hairy.
13:03 So red in Hebrew, Admonai and hairy was seer actually points to his anticipated future
13:11 homeland.
13:12 Notice Edom and seer.
13:14 Hmm.
13:15 Yeah.
13:16 Interesting.
13:17 Yeah.
13:18 It's always just stuff like there.
13:20 Yeah.
13:21 There is some interesting things to pick up on there.
13:23 Two nations in your room, kind of the, you know, this is kind of just a theme.
13:28 Two nations, you look at, you know, Isaac and Ishmael, the nation that God had chosen
13:34 as his chosen people and then Egypt, Hagar being from Egypt and then going back to Egypt
13:40 to get a wife for Ishmael, two kind of two nations going at war there.
13:46 It's just an interesting theme that just runs throughout the Bible of brothers against
13:52 brothers, nations against nations.
13:55 Two nations being at war in your room or in your room together that will be divided as
13:59 an interesting theme there.
14:01 I looked at, you know, the mention of him dying at 175 Abraham dying at 175 years old.
14:08 I just had written down here that he was, he was considered a friend of God.
14:12 I like that from James two, Abraham believed God and it was going to count it to him as
14:17 righteousness.
14:18 And he was called a friend of God and then just kind of looking at, I don't, I didn't
14:24 write the verse down there, you remember it, but it says we're no longer called servants,
14:27 but friends of God.
14:28 So as believers, we are also considered friends of God.
14:32 Let me trust and put our faith in him.
14:36 So you're saying you don't think that there was any concubines beyond Hagar and Katura?
14:41 You mean, with Abraham?
14:42 Yeah.
14:43 I don't, I don't get that indication.
14:44 Do you?
14:45 I don't see that.
14:46 I don't know.
14:47 To the sun, cause you would have to think like with Hagar, she's gone.
14:50 She's gone.
14:51 And so is Ishmael.
14:52 They're far away from here by now.
14:54 So he's got Katura, but they said, but to the sons of his concubines, plural.
14:59 And I don't think he was giving Ishmael any gifts because he was sent away.
15:05 So I kind of think that maybe he probably did.
15:08 Oh, let's see.
15:11 I'm looking at verse, I'm looking at verse six.
15:14 So, and I'm just kind of tracing it back to, you know, the fact that Hagar and Ishmael
15:20 are gone, Ishmael did not receive any of the inheritance.
15:24 Isaac got everything, but then in terms of gifts, he gave gifts to the concubines, the
15:29 children of his concubines.
15:31 Right.
15:32 It just doesn't mention anything else.
15:33 No.
15:34 It's not that specific.
15:35 I'm just, it's conjecture.
15:36 Sure.
15:37 Like, I mean, all of those, all of those sons are named and they're all from Katura.
15:41 Yeah.
15:42 That's, that's kind of what I'm going on.
15:44 Yeah.
15:45 If he had other sons, I think they would have been named.
15:48 So I'm going to look at that concubine, the plural of concubine.
15:51 Yeah.
15:52 Now I get it.
15:53 In the ESV study Bible, there's a little footnote here that says concubines may, may
15:57 refer to Hagar and Katura as like just not a formal marriage between the two of them.
16:04 Not necessarily.
16:05 They were just like concubines in the way we would think concubine, but it was just
16:11 not a formal marriage relationship.
16:15 And to be clear, this is a descriptive, not prescriptive verse.
16:19 I mean, I think this is another thing where people kind of get things a little bit mixed
16:23 up that, you know, the Bible is being written just as you would tell any other story.
16:29 Yeah.
16:30 You, you say, here are the details.
16:32 It doesn't necessarily mean that just because it's in the Bible, it's permissible.
16:37 So yeah, him having concubines and, you know, in the polygamous relationships that we see
16:43 throughout the Bible, that does not necessarily a prescriptive verse.
16:49 Right.
16:50 And I also think there's a distinction should be made between what God allows and what God
16:54 condones.
16:55 You know, he obviously allowed Abraham to have, you know, Hagar, but that clearly doesn't
17:03 mean that he condoned that.
17:05 And I think, I think a lot of times people get caught up on, well, you know, God was,
17:08 you know, God was all about polygamy in the Old Testament is like, well, no, that's not
17:12 true.
17:13 Not at all.
17:14 Not at all.
17:15 And I think it's easy.
17:17 You can actually read a lot through, especially throughout the Old Testament, you can read
17:21 a lot of stories about where God is permitting people to succeed in sin.
17:30 Um, I mean, you know, Jacob's story is actually a, you know, pretty good.
17:35 You know, I won't flash, you know, fast forward here, but his is a pretty good example.
17:40 You know, you're, you're doing things, you're conniving, you're deceiving all along the path.
17:46 And God is allowing that to succeed.
17:47 And it seems like you're getting blessings on the other side of it.
17:51 And you see that even today, like you'll see people are like, how, how is this person,
17:56 like just they're constantly succeeding.
18:00 And it just, you know, or the, you know, the failing upwards, you know, you see this all
18:03 the time.
18:05 And you just start asking yourself, like, I feel like I'm doing everything that I'm supposed
18:09 to be doing, and I'm not seeing the same level of success.
18:13 But I think sometimes we have to understand that God's timing is strategic.
18:17 That while we may not experience an immediate response from God every time that we sin,
18:24 there is a proper time where maybe that those chickens will come home to roost, that those
18:28 consequences will eventually hit and bring you low.
18:32 And I think that, you know, that the sins when we bring, when God brings those sins to
18:42 our attention, that's when the full fruit of the consequences will actually come into
18:46 our lives.
18:47 Yeah.
18:48 And also think about, you know, these people that pray, you know, the Bible talks about
18:51 these people that pray and they have all these movements and things they want to be seen
18:54 by man, right?
18:56 You have your reward because you've been seen by man.
18:59 So there is that, that as well as like, do you, would you rather have your reward now?
19:03 Or would you rather be laying up treasures in heaven?
19:06 And maybe you don't see any of that until literally you walk in through the gates and
19:09 you're like, wow, thank you, Lord.
19:11 Well, I think defining success is crucial.
19:14 What is success?
19:15 You know, and I think when we're, when we're looking at other people and obviously there's
19:19 the tendency to have some jealousy or to, you know, to think that, oh, how did they get
19:22 that?
19:23 Why, you know, where's my success?
19:24 I think what success is, is paramount to under, you know, to knowing where you fit in.
19:31 Whose success is it is another one?
19:35 And then to with, with the people who are, you know, receive blessings or look like they're,
19:39 you know, they're blessed or God is blessing them.
19:43 Do we not see that in the church as well with that, that church is obviously of God, not
19:48 a specific church, just, just a church in general, that is that church of God or look
19:51 how, look how God has blessed that church because it's massive or they have so many
19:56 people or their numbers are just like astronomics.
20:00 So that must be a move of the Holy Spirit.
20:03 And there's nothing inherently about that statement that, that says it is or it isn't.
20:10 But I think sometimes we get caught up on the huge church must be blessed by God.
20:14 That's not necessarily the case.
20:16 Yeah.
20:17 And so just, just like here, like, and Abraham's a good example too, not just Jacob.
20:20 Abraham did lots of, I mean, he lied, he lied to, to a guy saying, you know, hey, this
20:25 is my sister and the, and the dude, and the dude, the dude paid him like money and animals.
20:30 Like, so he's being blessed by this guy who, I mean, ultimately is, is God is blessing
20:36 him in spite of his sinful nature.
20:39 And I don't remember which song it is, but I mean, it rains on the rich and the poor,
20:44 like it rains on the righteous and the unrighteous.
20:46 I don't, I probably just butchered that. Sorry, Joby, but it's all the same, like, because
20:53 like that, the material wealth isn't the end game.
20:56 That's not the success that God is measuring.
20:59 Well, there's a big time danger of finding your satisfaction on that.
21:02 So as y'all were saying, I was trying to find it.
21:04 I found it Luke 624.
21:06 These are the words of Jesus, but woe unto you that are rich for you have received your
21:10 consolation, right?
21:11 So it's like, Hey, you've already gotten your reward, right?
21:15 And then you're not going to be getting any on, like, on the back end in heaven.
21:18 And so I think about the people on this planet that maybe live a full life of destitution
21:24 and don't really have anything and they've had many times where they've had to pray the
21:28 prayer, give us this day, our daily bread, because they didn't know where their, their
21:31 meal was going to be coming from for that day.
21:33 And so I think that's an important consideration as well.
21:35 And back to the point that you were making a while ago, Jake, I remember very early 20s,
21:42 I'm like leading a, you know, home group type thing.
21:45 And I remember one of the guys, he was, he was kind of a, your, your nade pin puller type
21:49 of guy.
21:50 Like he would pull the pin on someone and throw it into a conversation and then just
21:52 kind of like walk away.
21:53 Like that was just kind of his thing.
21:55 And I normally could get the upper hand on him, but that was one thing that he talked
21:57 about.
21:58 I was like, Hey, what about Abraham, models, cocky bites?
22:00 What about blah, blah, blah?
22:01 What about all that?
22:02 Like what does your God have to say about that?
22:03 It's like, first of all, it's like you're in this Christian, like home group thing and
22:07 you're talking in this very disputatious way, like that's not exactly what I think you're
22:11 supposed to be doing.
22:12 But I didn't have the words at the time to be like, obviously there's a difference between
22:15 description and prescription.
22:17 And then again, again, there's a big danger about popping into the Bible, like kind of
22:22 like parachuting down into a store, you're into a verse or into a part of a verse, people
22:27 that make t-shirts and bumper stickers and then, you know, parachute, you know, taking
22:30 a rocket ship and getting right back out of there because it's like, there's an entire
22:33 context about what is happening and God is allowing things to happen because like he
22:38 only has, like Satan only has the power that God allows him to have.
22:42 And so when Satan is doing things and, you know, attacking people and all that again,
22:47 at the end of it, there's going to be glory to God somehow and how someone is delivered
22:51 through pain or delivered through trial or something like that.
22:54 So there's a whole lot more to it than I think a lot of people guess.
22:57 Yeah.
22:58 I think the, what is the first three rules of understanding Bible verse or context, context
23:02 and context?
23:03 Yeah.
23:04 So you got it.
23:05 You got to understand that you can't drop in.
23:06 But any time that I hear like a sermon and, you know, it's more of a topical sermon and
23:11 then they will, you know, they'll pluck out a verse from wherever.
23:15 I would just encourage anybody who's doing that.
23:17 It's like, okay, look, you know, you're obviously, if it's more topical than it is expository,
23:23 you know, I would encourage anybody who just sees that single verse, like just go and read
23:29 that chapter, like while they're preaching, because if that verse is being used in that
23:35 context within the word, okay, then yeah, maybe you're on to something.
23:40 But if that verse has been taken, you know, if it's been clipped and they do it in books
23:44 too.
23:45 I mean, I think you have actually talked about so often the books will actually refer a verse
23:50 and then you didn't always go and actually read the Bible verse.
23:54 So you have no idea of what they're actually saying is supported by scripture or not because
23:57 you haven't gone and looked at it.
23:58 But even then they'll refer to a verse and you're going, okay, well, that's great.
24:03 You go and read the verse and it's like, well, yeah, but that's not how this is supposed
24:08 to be applied.
24:09 Well, I remember framing is so important too because I remember after Wes Huff kind of
24:13 first rose to prominence, Alex O'Connor, who's a very he, he's, he seems to be an intellectually
24:20 honest atheist and I'm, I'm trying to remember what he would actually call himself.
24:24 I don't know if he calls himself atheist or agnostic, but he's the one that was interviewing
24:27 being interviewed by Jordan Peterson or other way around.
24:29 I think he was being interviewed by Jordan Peterson and he got Jordan Peterson to admit
24:32 that he believes that the resurrection actually happened.
24:35 Like that's Alex O'Connor, right?
24:36 So cause Alex O'Connor said, Hey, if we put a, you know, camera pointed out the face of
24:40 Joseph a mayor from the is tomb and you and I are back here watching a monitor.
24:43 What would we see three days after he was put in there and Jordan Peterson said, I presume
24:47 we would see Jesus get up and walk out, right?
24:49 And said this was an eight atheist I got Jordan Peterson to admit that publicly.
24:52 But what I was getting at is someone like him will after Wes Huff came out, he basically
25:00 because Wes Huff made a statement about the number of contradictions in the Bible or different
25:05 transcripts or problems.
25:06 And Alex O'Connor said, well, actually there's 2000 or 3000 of these, these errors and blah,
25:11 blah, blah, basically trying to make it a dunk moment.
25:14 But what he was talking about, these were scribal errors.
25:17 These were not errors in the, in what the message of the gospel was, this was somebody
25:20 like zig does opposed to zagged on a particular word or a comma problem or a misspelling.
25:27 And again, how Wes Huff explained it, is there a certain where they have the most amount
25:30 of errors were in the places where the gospel was spreading so fast, you could tell that
25:35 the scribes were just literally greeking as fast as they could to get these, these letters
25:40 from Paul and, you know, these different writings out to more places around wherever they were
25:44 doing ministry, the, the first speed to lead game, man.
25:48 That's what that was.
25:49 It's like, we got to get this in the hands of, of all the people as quick as possible to
25:53 lead.
25:54 What is that speed to lead that like that is the in sales speed to lead is the quickest
25:59 to the lead gets the lead is kind of the idea there.
26:02 So they're, you know, they're trying to get that out to as being people as quickly as
26:06 possible.
26:07 So I think what I look at the other side of that though, the board game or something,
26:10 I was like, what is that?
26:11 We'll be playing that next week.
26:13 I want a place.
26:14 Be an elite Genesis.
26:15 The sheer number of cross references and the connections between the old and the new Testament
26:21 is just mind boggling to me, even just in the last several weeks as we, as we've gone
26:26 through these chapters, just looking at the continuity, the imagery, the mirroring of
26:32 Christ seeing, you know, seeing through the Old Testament stories, you know, and the pointing
26:37 towards the Redeemer coming out just like, how does this happen?
26:41 Like it cannot just happen.
26:43 So all that other stuff, you know, with the missing whatever comma or whatever to me is
26:48 just kind of like it pales in comparison to the just absolute continuity of the story
26:53 from beginning to end.
26:54 And the thing is, is one of these people can produce a transcript with a name and an author
26:59 or a scribe or something like that, that claimed that Jesus never claimed to be God or that
27:05 Jesus wasn't crucified or that Jesus didn't die or that Jesus actually wasn't resurrected
27:10 from the grave.
27:11 Like none of them are those types of things, but that's not where these people will hang
27:13 their hat.
27:14 They want to hang their hat on a number of, you know, differences between transcripts,
27:17 but it's just like, is that really the point?
27:20 Like think, think about whatever your favorite movie is.
27:22 So pick your favorite movie.
27:23 Imagine a throwaway line that you could pick from that movie to where if that, that line
27:28 or even if that entire scene were deleted from the movie and you would lose nothing because
27:32 even perfect movies could lose a scene and you still get the point, right?
27:36 There's plenty of deleted scenes in all these like world famous movies, but it's like, did
27:39 you lose the point?
27:40 I remember when I accidentally watched the extended version of gladiator, I've watched
27:45 gladiator more than just about any other movie except for movies when I watched as a kid
27:48 when you, you know, watch them every day or something like that.
27:50 And for whatever reason, I was watching the extended version and there is a scene where
27:54 comedists has a couple of guys that had these were the Praetorian guards that came back
27:59 and said that they had killed Maximus, but they hadn't.
28:02 And so it's a scene of him confronting them.
28:04 And in this deleted scene, you have comedists in between these two men as they're being
28:08 executed, but he's all the archers have their bows drawn and he is, you know, or raiding
28:13 and extending this out and extending the drama the entire team because basically they're
28:17 just waiting for the verbal thumbs up or thumbs down as to whether or not they're going to
28:20 kill their, you know, the Praetorian teammates or whatever or like.
28:25 And in the entire scene, I'm like, wow, that was incredibly dramatic.
28:28 That was crazy because they eventually do shoot these guys and comedists literally gets
28:31 blood all over them and everything.
28:32 But they cut that out of the theatrical release of the movie.
28:36 And it didn't have to be in there in order for people to get the point.
28:39 And so that's what people are not doing with these transcripts or saying like, Oh, here's
28:43 a gaping hole that once filled in, it changes the story of who Jesus is.
28:47 It's like they're not, they don't have the smoking gun, they're hanging their hat on
28:50 something else.
28:51 They're trying to distract you.
28:52 No.
28:53 And you can go into so many different aspects here in terms of like, give me one piece of
28:58 archaeological discovery that has disproven the, the circumstance, facts and circumstances
29:03 that have been outlined in the Bible, you can't produce it because there's been nothing that
29:07 has disproven it.
29:08 It's exact opposite.
29:09 And I, and again, I'll go back, I've mentioned this book before on the podcast, but scribes
29:12 and scriptures, a very interesting book and the weight of what scribes had to do in terms
29:18 of, you know, copying down, you know, chapter, you know, these, the books in the Bible, like
29:26 just having to be faithful in those.
29:28 But I think one of the most interesting thing is there's so many different historical figures
29:35 that we rely on, like, Plutarch and Josephus and these different historical writers that
29:43 we just go back and say, Oh, well, this must be true about Alexander the Great because,
29:48 you know, Plutarch wrote about this and it's like, you have hundreds of years after.
29:51 Well, hundreds of years after and like 12 surviving manuscripts, like, yeah, it's not
29:56 very many.
29:58 We put so much stock in like this small discovery of things and just take everything that we
30:04 know about Alexander and Julius Caesar and even Egyptian pharaohs, we just take those
30:09 based upon the faith of these small batch of writings.
30:15 And yet there's literally, I think, 24,000 manuscripts of the Bible written in like 10
30:23 different languages that don't contradict one another.
30:29 They all say the same thing.
30:31 They've been copied and recopied and copied and recopied.
30:35 And yet we sit here and just go, Well, it can't happen like that.
30:38 It didn't really, that didn't really happen.
30:40 It's like, of course it did.
30:41 Of course it did.
30:42 It had to.
30:43 Well, the old adage of there's more evidence to the existence of Jesus Christ than there
30:49 is Napoleon and no one disputes the existence and life of Napoleon.
30:53 But Jesus confronts us where we don't want to be confronted.
30:58 And we are in a spiritual warfare and Satan, the ruler and the power of this world wants
31:05 nothing more than to discredit all of those things.
31:08 And so the discredit comes and it's that age old lie.
31:13 Did God really say that's what those arguments really can be boiled down to.
31:17 Did God really say those, those errors or whatever, like you're calling into question
31:24 the word of God, which happened in Genesis chapter three, it goes all the way back.
31:30 Notice the first time that was ever uttered was by a serpent in the garden.
31:34 A dragon.
31:35 A dragon.
31:36 For sure.
31:37 Like this isn't, this isn't anything new, but as Christians, I think we have to rest
31:45 in the fact that we know where our faith lies, but then also be willing to confront that
31:51 lie.
31:52 We really say, with the truth of, well, yes, yes, actually he did.
31:57 And so I don't know, that's, that's what I, that's kind of what I, what I take from
32:00 those is that's, it's just an age old lie.
32:02 It's just, it's just going back to the garden.
32:04 How's your stomach doing, Eric?
32:05 I, you know, you know, that feeling where things kind of drop, yeah, that has happened.
32:11 I'm telling you.
32:12 I just looked, I was like, well, 29 minutes.
32:14 I'm still good.
32:16 I'm just going to say we're not going to go as long on this one as we're doing some
32:19 other weeks.
32:20 So we're going to be giving guys a little bit of their time back.
32:21 But I just want to get a little check and go.
32:23 I almost just, I'm not having to do, I'm not doing lemons breathing or anything like
32:26 that.
32:27 I'm good.
32:28 Well, I'm, I'm, the smell I'm getting on this side of the table is telling me otherwise.
32:33 So just, you know, it is what it is, but hey, since you, since you read Genesis 25, how
32:39 about you go ahead and close us out?
32:40 You're going to read all of Genesis, the rest of Genesis 25.
32:43 You may read 95%.
32:44 I just want to try to keep him engaged at the tables.
32:49 How long we can draw this down.
32:51 So let's get into Esau selling his birth right.
32:53 So 29 through the end.
32:54 So movements.
32:55 Yes.
32:56 Once when Jacob was cooking stew, Esau came in from the field and he was exhausted and
33:04 Esau said to Jacob, let me eat some of that red stew for I'm exhausted.
33:09 Therefore, his name was called Edom.
33:12 Jacob said, sell me your birth right now.
33:16 Esau said, I'm about to die of what use is a birth right to me.
33:21 Jacob said swear to me now.
33:23 So he swore to him and sold his birth right to Jacob.
33:27 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew and he ate and drank and rose and went his
33:34 way.
33:35 Thus Esau despised his birth right.
33:41 So I've been hungry before, but I've never quite been this hungry where I was willing.
33:48 Now I get it.
33:49 It's like, if you're about to die, like I've heard the adage before.
33:51 It's like, what is gold to a man dying of thirst?
33:54 It's like, you know, you can't, you can't sustain yourself with gold bars or whatever.
33:59 But yeah, let's go ahead and get into the story of Esau and Jacob.
34:03 One of the first things you want to understand here is just kind of what's at stake.
34:06 So there's two sons here and understand the uniqueness here is okay.
34:12 So in the Jewish culture, you know, primogeniture ruled.
34:18 So first born gets the double share.
34:24 How unfair that must seem to a twin because you're, you know, born seconds after your
34:31 brother and Jacob gets the half share of what Esau is going to get.
34:37 But when you look at it, so the way they would do it is if you had two sons, then your inheritance
34:45 would be divided up into three.
34:47 And then they would give, you'd give two thirds to one son and a third to the other.
34:51 So it'd be the double portion.
34:53 That's right.
34:54 Yeah.
34:55 If you had 12 kids and you divided up into 13, one would get two thirteenths and the rest
35:00 of them would get one thirteenth.
35:02 So you always ended up getting double as the oldest.
35:05 But I think, you know, that discrepancy would be probably painful enough for a second child.
35:13 Probably even more so to a twin.
35:15 So I don't think that Jacob's probably sitting here and going, Oh, that's just fine.
35:19 This is good to go.
35:20 So I can kind of see where he would go.
35:22 Well, I have a plan.
35:23 I, you know, like if there was an opportunity to do this, this would seem more, you know,
35:27 this would seem like justice in his, in his mind in a way.
35:32 But I think the other thing that's interesting here is he saw us kind of revealing why he
35:37 would not be the chosen person here because he's got a very utilitarian understanding
35:42 of what his needs are deeply impetuous.
35:46 That's right.
35:47 So he's, he's ends, it just to 25 ends with a striking sequence of five straight verbs,
35:52 eight, drank, got up, left, despised.
35:55 Perhaps the author is suggesting that it was just as routine for him to despise his birth
36:00 right as it was to do the others, which is eat, drink, get up and leave.
36:05 It is not that he saw trades the covenant blessing away, but rather he shows his attitude
36:10 towards heritage.
36:11 If he so lightly esteem his material birthright, what reason is there to believe that he will
36:15 value a covenant birthright?
36:18 So literally in his action of despising this birthright and giving it away, he just shows
36:24 how little he values it.
36:26 He values it less than food.
36:29 So he's, so he is another, he's another picture of Adam who also threw away his birthright
36:36 for some food.
36:38 Should miss that.
36:39 We shouldn't miss that.
36:40 Yeah.
36:41 Yeah.
36:42 Yeah.
36:43 So very true.
36:44 He is so flippant towards the promise that God made to fulfill through the line of Isaac
36:51 that he lets his emotions run his life to the point that he throws away his birthright.
36:58 And you could, you could harp on Jacob all day long because there's probably a little
37:01 bit of conniving.
37:02 There's probably a little bit of strategic planning here.
37:03 I'm going to take this birthright.
37:04 I'm waiting for the moment.
37:05 And yes, that probably is, that probably is true, but he saw, he saw his attitude and
37:10 flippancy towards the promise that God made to his grandfather Abraham to fulfill to make
37:17 all things right through this line, like there is, there's such a stark similarity between
37:25 him and Adam that we shouldn't miss that.
37:29 And we're all sons of Adam until we're not, until we, until we put our faith in Christ.
37:36 And so there's, there's also some similarity between us outside of Christ, between us and
37:41 Esau and Adam as well.
37:43 So that's, that's, that's an interesting thing that I, that I was thinking about as I was
37:47 reading that.
37:48 Yeah.
37:49 The instant gratification.
37:50 If it feels good, do it.
37:51 I mean, he wanted something and he wanted it right then, and he was willing to give up
37:54 whatever's necessary to get it.
37:56 I'm going to butcher about it.
37:57 Burke Parsons talks about this a lot.
37:59 Emotions can be liars.
38:00 We should always be willing to speak truth to our emotions.
38:03 And not that emotions aren't necessary and can't help us and aren't good, but emotions
38:13 can just be to our detriment and clearly, clearly here that he saw his detriment there.
38:20 Sure.
38:21 Well, when in your life, have you done something based on emotion alone and it turned out well,
38:26 turned out preferable?
38:28 Yeah.
38:29 I mean, I'm sure we can think of times like that, but typically when you operate only
38:32 in your emotional part of your brain and your countenance, you're not going to really like
38:35 what the outcome is like.
38:37 And we even see in Hebrews, you see in the New Testament that he saw as used as an example
38:42 of like, okay, this is a dude that's like ignoring God's blessing for carnal pleasures.
38:47 And so I can't figure out a changes to off the King James version.
38:50 So I'll be reading Hebrews 12, 16 and 17 in the King James, unless there be any fornicator
38:54 or profane person as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright for you know that,
39:01 you know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected
39:05 for he found no place of repentance, though he saw it carefully with tears.
39:09 And so this is something in desperation, but the thing was, is he wasn't dying.
39:14 Like he was desperate, he was hungry, but he wasn't dying.
39:17 Like he wasn't one, you know, if he didn't get a meal right then that he was going to
39:21 cease to exist.
39:22 And so, and we can see that there are issues, there were issues for Esau later, where he
39:26 just almost cursed himself for giving away what God had blessed him with.
39:31 And it's like, I don't want to stretch it, stretch it too far, but it's almost like
39:37 when God gives a blessing to somebody that they just [inaudible] away.
39:41 So a talent or a skill and that could be any skill.
39:44 There's all the varsity skills of like, okay, if you can jump high and run fast and you
39:47 know, obviously that your road to professional sports is a lot smoother than for somebody
39:52 who isn't blessed with those things.
39:54 Not like there are people that are incredibly intellectually gifted, that, you know, get
39:58 off into video games and drugs and whatever thing is.
40:01 And so they're not using the skill that God gave them to glorify God.
40:05 I also think about, and we've, we've talked about this a little bit, but people that seem
40:10 to, you brought up, I don't know if it was this week or last week, Jake, where it's
40:13 like people that just seem to succeed.
40:14 No matter what, they succeed and it just works out and you're so confused.
40:17 Well, some of these people are getting blessings from the devil, right?
40:21 And so they're being put in places and maintained in places.
40:24 It's not because they sold their soul.
40:25 Like, you know, the devil came down, came to him and was like, Hey, shake my hand and
40:28 I'll, you'll sell a bunch of records.
40:30 I mean, you'll die in the end and go to hell, but like you're gonna sell, you know, five
40:33 billion records in the meantime, but you have these people that are using their skill sets
40:37 that God gave them, but they are not using them for the glorification of God.
40:40 They're using it for the glorification of self of their ego of their bank account and
40:44 things like that.
40:45 And so it, there's a fundamental disordering of what God has given them.
40:48 Yeah, I kind of brings so there's another joke here.
40:54 Sorry.
40:55 I'm going to go through it because I hope it is.
40:57 So one Sunday morning, a deacon decided to skip church and take in some golf.
41:03 He slipped over the fence onto the third fairway and began to play as in the case of Job, Satan
41:07 was standing before God and asked what God intended to do to punish the deacons dishonesty.
41:13 Just wait and see what happens on the fifth hole.
41:16 God smiled.
41:17 The fifth hole was the most difficult on the course and often was responsible for scuttling
41:21 the hopes for a good game on this particular Sunday morning, however, the deacon whose handicap
41:26 was barely a mediocre 33 drove the ball straight and true.
41:30 Not only did it find the green, but also it took the curve of the terrain and went right
41:34 in the cup, a hole in one, Satan was a gas with incredulity.
41:39 Why have you rewarded this unconscionable conduct with such remarkable success?
41:46 God says, it looks like success now, but who is he going to tell?
41:51 Oh, God, that's skull jokes.
41:58 That's really bad.
42:01 No, I, I say the joke because it is, I mean, again, what looks like success in the moment,
42:07 you know, in this version, okay, he slipped on the golf course, so he didn't pay.
42:14 He's, he's skipping church.
42:16 He's a deacon and he's skipping church.
42:18 And yet he gets a hole in one on this hole that is impossible and the, there is no reward
42:27 for him in that.
42:29 And other than he can try and tell people and they're going to be like, I don't believe
42:32 you.
42:33 Sure.
42:34 You're just going to look like a liar now.
42:35 So I, I mean, I think to your point, you know, success does look different for different
42:41 people. And I do think that a lot of times people put things into a bucket of, I am successful
42:48 because I have done or I have obtained, you know, I got this promotion.
42:54 Um, I was actually talking to somebody last night and, you know, he was talking about
42:59 he always wanted to be the president of the bank and he got to become president of the
43:03 bank.
43:04 I was like, what do you think?
43:05 He goes, man.
43:06 He's like, I don't know.
43:07 But in the, and I'm a partner, I, I work for 10 years to become a partner at a, at a public
43:12 accounting firm and I've got it.
43:14 And I always remind myself of the old quote from Oscar Wilde, or two great tragedies in
43:19 this life.
43:20 One is not getting what you want and the other is getting it.
43:23 And so sometimes there are days that you're just like, I do not want to deal with this
43:27 today.
43:28 It's difficult.
43:29 And there's other times that it's absolutely a joy, but, uh, I think that when you start
43:36 trying to pinpoint, you know, why people are successful and everything, I think it's so
43:43 hard to tell.
43:44 I think sometimes whether this is a blessing from God or a test from God.
43:50 And I think a lot of times you just kind of have to walk in faith and hope that, hope
43:54 that those blessings that he's given you through whatever the decisions you've made and choices
43:59 that you've made, that those are truly from him and that you're just walking in faith along
44:05 the way.
44:06 I don't know.
44:07 I'm kind of trailing off here.
44:08 No, it sounds like it can be both.
44:09 I mean, all Isaac was the ultimate blessing and was also used to test Abraham.
44:15 So I think, I think they can be one and the same.
44:19 Yeah, it was interesting.
44:21 Um, I wonder if these boys knew about that, about the discussion God had had with Rekka.
44:28 You know, cause she felt the struggle and asked and inquired and then God said, well, this
44:33 is how it's going to, how it's going to go down.
44:36 Do you think they knew that?
44:38 At this point in their life, is that what you're asking?
44:41 Yeah.
44:42 Yeah.
44:43 I don't know.
44:44 That's a good, that's a good question.
44:45 I have to think like you probably don't tell your kids that because you don't want them
44:47 to fight.
44:48 You know what I mean?
44:49 Like I don't, I don't think that you're as a parent looking to intentionally have strife
44:55 between your kids.
44:56 Sure.
44:57 I mean, there's enough of that.
44:58 Yeah.
44:59 Without you doing anything.
45:00 I mean, clearly it looked like, you know, she put Jacob as her favorite, you know, maybe
45:08 just cause she knew that that was where the covenant was headed.
45:11 Yeah.
45:12 Maybe, maybe not.
45:13 I don't know.
45:14 I mean, that's possible.
45:15 Jacob favored, or Isaac favored Esau.
45:18 That may have just been her response, like a natural thing at the scales in the other
45:22 direction.
45:23 I think he's also home body, like he was, he was where she would have been.
45:27 Yeah, that's true.
45:28 So there's a lot of that as well.
45:29 I mean, surely that maybe factored in, like I said surely maybe, yes, no, wish you wash
45:37 you over here.
45:38 I think that could have been a factor because you know, like God sells her the older shell
45:42 serve the younger and she's like, Oh, okay, well, I'm going to put all my time and attention
45:46 into Jacob, right?
45:48 The trickster.
45:49 I did right down.
45:50 I put Jacob is trying to gain something.
45:51 He's already been promised by God, and he's also trying to sell something that wasn't his
45:54 to give.
45:55 Yeah.
45:56 That, I don't know that Jacob would like, maybe he did know because like, I mean, in
46:02 our sinful flesh, like again, back to Abraham, he was promised like his offspring would be
46:07 more than the number of more than the stars or number more than the stars, and he still
46:11 tried to do it himself.
46:13 So I mean, maybe, maybe Jacob's doing the same, like, all right, well, I'm going to try
46:17 to get the older serving the younger, though.
46:19 I mean, I don't know that that necessarily has to involve the blessing or the birthright.
46:23 The birthright.
46:24 I don't know that it has to.
46:25 I mean, you can literally look at Joseph just in a, you know, later on in Genesis.
46:29 I mean, it was his younger or his older brothers ended up kind of serving under him.
46:37 They were relying upon him at one point, and it was Joseph who, you know, what was intended
46:44 for evil ended up God using for good.
46:47 So I think it's entirely, I mean, I don't know that necessarily the birthright had to
46:50 be involved with the serving, you know, the older serving the younger.
46:54 I don't know that that necessarily had to be involved, but because I think we have enough
46:59 examples of maybe some other characters within the Bible that well, I mean, Judah, Judah is
47:05 like he, he is literally the line that Jesus comes from, and he's not the firstborn.
47:11 I mean, God, God flipped this flips the script on the, you know, the cultural paradox all
47:16 the time.
47:17 I mean, so this is just another example of that happening.
47:19 Yeah, it's true.
47:20 Well, and there was the material, you know, you get double the portion, but you also get
47:24 to be the spiritual leader of the family, too.
47:26 So there's that other.
47:27 Which again, Esau's revealing right now why that probably is not his role.
47:32 Uh, I mean, and, you know, I actually put this in the ask a pastor question with Joby about
47:37 being a spiritual leader in your home, and you know, like what's, you know, as a, as
47:41 a father, you know, I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader in your home.
47:43 And he evens, I mean, I told you, I was like, he took a gigantic weight off of my shoulders
47:48 because while I spend time in the word, I don't know that I would necessarily consider
47:53 myself to be the person in our home who is the most familiar with the words.
47:59 My wife is a daily Bible reader has been reading the Bible with our daughters every day faithfully
48:07 since they were babies.
48:09 I mean, just every day does the Bible, uh, the Bible recap, uh, watches those every morning
48:17 with our daughters.
48:19 And so I am like, you know, there's been so much insecurity on my part because I'm like,
48:24 why I'm supposed to be spiritual leader?
48:25 Why am I not doing this stuff?
48:26 And it's like, well, maybe I'm just not the one to be doing it.
48:29 And I think that's kind of where I think that's, I can kind of see myself a little bit.
48:34 I mean, with Esau here is that, you know, I'm probably just not the person who's best suited
48:39 to do that for my daughters and maybe my wife is better suited for it.
48:42 Maybe that's why I don't feel this urging to be like, I need to read the Bible to my
48:47 daughters. It's like, well, but my wife's doing that and she's probably better suited
48:51 for it.
48:52 There's other things you can do as a father to be the spiritual leader of your home.
48:57 Yeah, I mean, I think that's how it is, uh, with a lot of things though, like my wife
49:01 does all the cooking.
49:02 So do I come home motivated to cook every night?
49:05 No, because she literally is set a pace for that too.
49:09 Like I, she expects me to take out the trash.
49:11 She never takes out the trash, you know, and that's okay.
49:13 And so we have those roles, right? And we're just, I mean, that's, we're neither necessarily
49:18 good or bad at it.
49:19 I mean, my wife's great cook.
49:20 I don't know how I can be good about taking the trash out and whatever you do a great
49:24 job.
49:25 I've seen you do it before.
49:26 It's great.
49:27 Well, the other thing as well is like, what are you going to be held to account for is
49:31 the question that you need to ask because it's like, you know, so there are people that are
49:36 so a guy that's maybe a little bit more bait in his personality, maybe has a few more feminine
49:40 traits than maybe he should be leaning into.
49:43 And so he defaults to his wife's spiritual leadership and guidance in the home.
49:48 That is not the, no, no, wait, that is not the same thing as your wife reading the Bible
49:53 to your girls.
49:54 That's not the same thing because you have guys that are more than happy to abdicate
49:58 their responsibility as the spiritual thermostat of the household and they're totally okay with
50:03 taking the role as thermometer.
50:05 And they're going to have to give an account someday for how they've provided for the family,
50:09 just financially, but also spiritually, and part of what the father's leadership directive
50:16 is and what he will be held account for is what did he do to remove obstacles inside of
50:21 his family's life?
50:22 Okay.
50:23 Because if you're out working, so your wife homeschools the girls, so you're out working
50:28 and you're providing for the family, you don't have the same opportunity to do the same things
50:33 and the same is true in the opposite for Stacy.
50:36 Now she's not going to have to give an account for how she has led the home spiritually,
50:41 but it is her job to be your help mate at your side.
50:44 And if you're at work, you know, neck deep and spread sheets and HR complaints or whatever
50:48 the thing is, she is doing her job as your help mate, even if she's not right at your
50:53 side at that moment.
50:54 Yeah.
50:55 Well, that again goes back to Genesis three.
50:58 Thank you.
50:59 Eve is the one that talks to the serpent, she takes the food, the fruit and gives it
51:06 to her husband, but he's abdicated his responsibility.
51:11 Eve isn't really mentioned in the rest of the Bible, but when we're talking about the
51:15 curse of man and the fall of man, who was mentioned, it's Adam, always Adam because he
51:19 was given, he was given dominion, he was given a directed directive, which he abdicated.
51:24 And so then we're not called, we are either in Eve or we're in Christ.
51:30 We are in Adam or we are in Christ and that responsibility is on us.
51:34 So it's figuring, I think it's different for every family too.
51:37 I think it's, you've got to figure out what is, what works for you and how, how that works,
51:42 but that you are the lead, like you're, you're the leader.
51:46 That doesn't change, but the day to day logistics, that can be different depending on the family
51:53 for sure.
51:54 I think the other thing that's a little bit, you know, and I'll just, you know, I don't
51:58 know if any of you are dealing with this or have dealt with it, but there is a little
52:02 bit of the idea, I mean, as you, as you get older and, you know, your parents pass away,
52:08 you know, becoming that patriarch of your family and kind of leading in that way.
52:13 And I mean, I'll tell you, like, I was wholly unprepared for that, you know, because I was
52:21 at 42 when my father passed away, I was not prepared for that kind of role, you know,
52:28 where you're just kind of trying to shepherd, you know, a trust and you're trying to shepherd
52:33 spiritually, like, you know, family members who were just kind of struggling with this.
52:39 And you know, some, some believers, some not believers, and you're just, you know, why
52:43 this happened, you know, it just seemed so soon is like, it was soon.
52:46 And yeah, this sucks.
52:48 And here's, here's what I'm trying to do.
52:50 But I think that it's, you know, again, leaning, leaning on God and leaning into your faith
52:57 in those moments when you can kind of understand, even though you're not prepared, God has
53:04 probably given you the tools and has prepared you for this moment, even though you're looking
53:10 at it and saying, I'm wholly unprepared for this moment.
53:13 He's probably given you everything you need to get through it.
53:17 And you just kind of, you know, pray, yes, go.
53:19 When you can't see, again, it's the flashlight on a trail thing, so like you can't see the
53:24 end of it.
53:25 And he has equipped you for the entirety of your responsibility that he has given you.
53:30 And so leading your family, leading your children from the moment there conceived until the
53:35 moment they are no longer in your charge inside of your household, he has prepared you and
53:39 through the process of sanctification and maturity, he's going to bring you along along the way.
53:44 Because if you are parenting this, you know, an 18 year old in the same way you're parenting
53:49 an 18 day old, there's going to be some issues, right, with you and how you're doing that.
53:54 But again, people like to look at fruit because I've heard guys say like, Oh man, I'm not
53:57 much of a reader.
53:58 My wife, she's real smart and she's real this and that and the other thing.
54:01 And it's like, okay, that might be true.
54:03 It does not absolve you of your responsibility to your household.
54:08 And so yes, there are women who are rather astute.
54:11 They see combinations and things in the Bible and they're given that, but they're given
54:15 that for the purpose of being a helpmate.
54:18 Not for the purpose of usurping the role of Adam, right?
54:21 And so that's going to be the woman's struggle if she is in that moment to not just override
54:26 her husband, be like, no, no, no, that's not actually what it means, right?
54:29 That's going to be her struggle and the man's struggle is going to be not feeling like he's
54:33 enough, not feeling like he has what it takes, but taking the mantle of responsibility seriously
54:39 in those moments.
54:40 Yeah.
54:41 Stacy's always been really great about, you know, I would say I am, I'm probably still
54:46 a novice and compared to her in terms of her, just knowledge of the Bible and scripture.
54:51 And she's always been pretty great about like, okay, I'll go and talk about things.
54:57 And then she's like, you know, and I can tell when she's real quiet that she's got a very
55:01 different stance.
55:03 And so she'll kind of talk to me later on about like, well, so why do you think that?
55:09 It's like, you know, she starts peppering me with some questions and then allows me to
55:12 kind of go either either allows me to state my case more clearly.
55:16 And then she goes, okay, I think you want to maybe clarify that with the girls tomorrow.
55:20 It's like, Oh, okay.
55:21 Cause she's like, I didn't get that.
55:24 But so she's really good about just trying to correct me kind of over here to the side
55:28 and then allowing me to go back to the girls and saying, Oh, and by the way, this is also
55:32 what I meant.
55:35 And then if I'm actually on the right track, she'll agree and she'll kind of reinforce.
55:39 So yeah, I definitely have a, I have a great helper in terms of that.
55:44 So very good.
55:45 Very good.
55:46 Anything else as we wrap up just man, I'd love to read this quote by Donald Gray Marnhouse.
55:53 Esau despised his birthright example of someone who places value on spiritual things.
55:59 So history shows that men prefer illusions to realities, choose time rather than eternity
56:05 and the pleasures of sin for a season rather than the joys of God forever.
56:09 Men will read trash rather than the word of God and here to a system of priorities that
56:13 leaves God out of their lives, multitudes of men spend more time shaving than on their
56:18 souls and multitudes of women give more minutes to their makeup than to the life of the eternal
56:24 spirit.
56:25 Men still sell their birthright for a massive potage.
56:29 Oof.
56:30 I don't think we need to say anything else after that.
56:32 Can you send that to me?
56:33 Yeah.
56:34 That's all.
56:35 That's good.
56:36 That's good.
56:37 What was the cool by again?
56:38 Donald Gray Marnhouse.
56:39 That's all.
56:40 Do you have to say it like that?
56:41 Yeah.
56:42 I think that's just my stomach talking.
56:44 You should read that in English accent.
56:45 So it sounds smarter.
56:46 Well, rather than selling our birthright for food, we should, you know, come to the bread
56:52 of life, which is Jesus, and I think that's the ultimate here is understanding what is
57:01 real sustenance, what is real food.
57:05 And man, that's a great quote.
57:07 I love that.
57:08 Yep.
57:09 Well, and before your stomach has a chance to change accents again, we'll go ahead and
57:11 wrap up our discussion of Genesis 25.
57:13 But guys, come back here next week, we're going to be talking about Genesis 26.
57:17 So read Genesis 26 and be ready for next week.
57:20 But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
57:22 That undaunted life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
57:25 forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience, a few things right here.
57:28 We have a crossway starter set or sorry, a forging table starter set from crossway.
57:32 So there are five books on that.
57:33 So if you want to get that and get that at a discount, check out the show notes.
57:36 Also the Logos Bible software, the best Bible software on planet earth, check it out.
57:40 But use it at a discount.
57:42 Use the discount code that is it or the link that is in our show notes here.
57:45 And then also we are donation based ministry.
57:47 So if you know, if you want to know how we get content like this out to guys all over
57:50 the globe, it's because we have men just like you that are helping us equipment to push
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57:58 Thank you for listening to this podcast.
57:59 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
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58:09 That's I N F O at undonton.life.
58:11 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
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58:17 Just go to www.undonton.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
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58:24 The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album
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58:29 The links are in the description.
58:31 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
58:33 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
58:40 I'm seeking the Lion of Judah.
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