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This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
0:54
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:58
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:03
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:06
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:10
us.
1:11
That's Winkler, that's Matt.
1:12
That's Brown, and guys, we're digging into Genesis 22 today, and for any of you like
1:16
super specific, visual people, blah, blah, blah, yes, if you're wondering, my solo setup
1:22
is about three feet that way, so we're at the Forging Table.
1:26
Solo setup's over there, guys, like, "Oh, we got that new solo setup, we got the big
1:29
line on the wall," all that type of thing.
1:31
I accidentally turned that on for the last recording, so that's not normally supposed
1:35
to have a big line head right there with a bunch of conflicting lights and all that,
1:38
so sorry to our editor, Landon, who knows how struggle bust I am when it comes to technology,
1:43
but on this one all I had to do was turn lights off, and I couldn't even manage to do that."
1:46
So it happens, but we're going to be getting into a very important part of Genesis here
1:52
and a part that a lot of us have been looking forward to, and that is Genesis 22, and so
1:56
we're going to just read it in its entirety right here, and then we're going to go back
2:00
and start really digging in, and so I will take a volunteer for who would like to read
2:04
the entirety of Genesis 22, and you have to have a son, so Winkler, you're out, so anybody
2:10
else?
2:11
No, I'm happy to do it, whatever.
2:18
Let's go.
2:19
There's only--
2:20
There's only--
2:21
Well, I mean, what?
2:22
Okay.
2:23
We're going to volunteer first, let them go.
2:24
How about we make it somewhere?
2:25
I'm going to give you a word.
2:26
Tell you what, tell you what, tell you what.
2:27
We're going to do--
2:28
We're going to do--
2:29
That's a good way to, like, lose some listeners.
2:30
No.
2:31
No, no, no, no.
2:32
This is how we're going to do it.
2:33
We're going to take a bite, because Winkler's here, we're going to do trivia to see who
2:36
does this.
2:37
I wasn't even playing it.
2:38
Okay.
2:39
So we're not going around the horn like we did last time, so I'm going to ask a question,
2:43
and it's just the first person to give me the answer.
2:46
Okay, so let me just pull this over here.
2:47
Get to read?
2:48
Yeah, you get to read.
2:49
Okay, okay.
2:50
You get the right to read.
2:51
Okay, because if you don't want to read, just don't answer the question.
2:54
I'm torn.
2:55
To be clear, you both want to read, Genesis 22.
2:58
I'm happy to read.
2:59
No, no, no, just say yes.
3:00
Yes.
3:01
Okay, very much.
3:02
Okay, let me go.
3:03
Yes.
3:04
I'm torn between my desire not to read, to save my voice, and my competitiveness over trivia.
3:09
What?
3:10
You're not even playing, right?
3:11
So they're not even in this, right?
3:12
Because okay, here we go.
3:13
Do I need to hit a buzzer or something?
3:15
No, no, no.
3:16
You just you first want to blur it out the correct answer wins.
3:19
Oh shoot.
3:20
Dang, I zacked it.
3:24
I zacked it.
3:26
I'd say is that going to be the euphemism for forgetting to start the timer now?
3:31
It's got to be.
3:32
All right.
3:33
Sorry, Zach.
3:34
I love you.
3:35
Jesus.
3:36
That's a good guess.
3:39
A good guess.
3:41
I'll be incorrect.
3:44
Who was the second emperor of Rome?
3:48
Oh my gosh.
3:50
First person, give me the correct answer wins.
3:54
Was it Mark Anthony?
3:55
Negative.
3:56
Oh.
3:57
Mark Anthony the second.
3:58
He was never the emperor of Rome.
4:00
I don't think.
4:01
Oh, I don't know.
4:03
No, you can't look it up.
4:04
Oh man.
4:05
What are you doing?
4:06
Literally just restarting my computer.
4:08
Did I really?
4:09
No, I don't.
4:10
It's Octavian or Augustus.
4:12
Wrong and wrong.
4:13
What?
4:14
I don't.
4:15
I'm not smart.
4:16
Okay.
4:17
I'm going to have to do another one.
4:19
Okay.
4:20
No, no, no, no, no.
4:21
I'm not going to I'm not going to tell you.
4:23
It's Tiberius.
4:24
It's Tiberius.
4:25
Okay.
4:26
All right.
4:27
So who won the MVP for the World Series in 2011?
4:34
Albert Pujols.
4:36
Incorrect.
4:37
I just figured it might be a Saint Louis one.
4:40
Yeah.
4:41
I also don't know the answer to this.
4:43
David Fries.
4:44
David Fries is correct.
4:45
Remember we don't get to answer.
4:47
So I'm trying to think of anything else that I might, like movie trivia or something.
4:55
Who was these?
4:57
Who was the 14th president of the United States?
4:59
Oh my gosh.
5:01
I mean, Abraham Lincoln.
5:03
No, no, no, no, no, no.
5:05
Lincoln was 16th.
5:06
Yeah.
5:07
So Calvin College.
5:08
No.
5:09
Coolage was way after.
5:10
I'm just Paul.
5:11
Lincoln.
5:12
Paul?
5:13
James K. Polk.
5:14
No way.
5:15
Franklin Pierce.
5:16
Oh, I would have never guessed that.
5:18
Oh, God.
5:19
I actually know them.
5:21
I was trying to I was trying to do my little.
5:24
Yeah, I can recite all the presidents in order.
5:26
All right.
5:27
That's interesting.
5:28
That's interesting.
5:29
This one I know.
5:30
I think I think you both know.
5:31
Okay.
5:32
Jesus.
5:33
Hang on.
5:34
Yes.
5:35
Congratulations.
5:36
Congratulations.
5:37
What country is actually the answer, but now we have to go to dinner.
5:43
It was going to be what country is Celine Dion from?
5:49
I celebrate her entire count.
5:52
We can't do that now.
5:55
I can't believe I got that.
5:57
I don't know why.
5:58
I was late.
5:59
No, this is a terrible idea.
6:02
Okay.
6:03
All right.
6:04
I don't even like this person or the band that he's a part of, but I'm just for.
6:08
Just for trivia's sake.
6:11
What country is Bono from?
6:14
He's from the UK.
6:17
Oh, he's from Ireland.
6:19
Ireland.
6:20
We finally got there.
6:22
Technically, I was right because he like is part of the United Kingdom.
6:25
Technically.
6:26
That's not a country.
6:27
It's the Republic of Ireland.
6:29
The Republic of Ireland.
6:30
Right.
6:31
So they're not.
6:32
Northern Ireland would be part of both of them.
6:34
Right.
6:35
Northern.
6:36
Great.
6:37
Well, that was terrible.
6:38
I don't know why I came up with that idea.
6:39
And yet it all hinge on Bono.
6:41
I went full action on you on there.
6:43
Actually.
6:44
Actually, Matt, is this another thing?
6:46
I'm an accountant.
6:48
Okay.
6:49
Nerds.
6:50
Well, buckle up.
6:51
We're going to be reading about the sacrifice of Isaac.
6:54
So get your thinking caps in your serious Bible caps on Browning.
6:58
Don't make me regret this.
6:59
Congrats.
7:00
It's child sacrifice.
7:01
Yeah.
7:02
Go.
7:03
After these things, God tested Abraham and said to him, Abraham.
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And he said, here I am.
7:10
He said, take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love and go to the land of Mariah
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and offer him there as a burnt offering on the one of the mountains of which I will tell
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you.
7:22
So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men
7:27
with him and his son, Isaac.
7:29
And he cut the wood for the burnt offering in rose and went to the place of which God
7:33
had told him.
7:34
On the third day, Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar.
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Then Abraham said to his young men, stay here with the donkey.
7:42
I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you.
7:46
And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac, his son.
7:51
And he took in his hand the fire and the knife.
7:56
So they both went, excuse me, so they went both of them together.
8:01
And Isaac said to his father, Abraham, my father.
8:04
And he said, here I am, my son.
8:06
He said, behold the fire and the wood.
8:09
But where's the lamb for the burnt offering?
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Abraham said, God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.
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So they went both of them together.
8:20
When they came to the place of which God had told him, Abraham built the altar there
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and laid the wood in order and bound Isaac, his son, and laid him on the altar on top of the wood.
8:30
Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son.
8:33
But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham.
8:38
And he said, here I am.
8:40
He said, do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him.
8:43
For now I know that you fear God.
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Seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me.
8:50
And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked.
8:52
And behold, behind him was a ram caught in the thicket by his horns.
8:57
And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son.
9:01
So Abraham called the name of the place the Lord will provide.
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As it is said to this day, on the mount of the Lord, it shall be provided.
9:11
And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven and said,
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By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son.
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I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of the heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore.
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And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies.
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And in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed my voice.
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So Abraham returned to his young men and they arose and went together to Bathsheba.
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And Abraham lived at Bathsheba.
9:50
Now, after these things it was told to Abraham to hold.
9:53
Milka also has born children to your brother, Nahor, who's his first born, Buzz, his brother, Camul, the father of Erem, Chezad, Hezo, Pildash, Jill Lap, and Bathewell.
10:08
Matthew, old father, Rebecca, these eight, Milka bore to Nahor Abraham's brother.
10:14
Moreover, moreover, his concubine, his name was Rem Yuma, Borteba, Gaham, Tahosh, and Makah.
10:23
I see done with that last part. No one knows if you actually pronounced them correctly, but we're going to at least pretend.
10:28
So there's so much here.
10:31
We didn't discuss this off air. We probably would have been a good idea to kind of know where we're going.
10:35
Just to kind of start, you know, maybe hovering 10,000 feet above this story or so.
10:40
It's very different for me at being a father of sons now, reading this story.
10:46
Just like it is whenever I will watch a movie that the last time I saw it was before I had a son.
10:54
It could be a song, it could be anything.
10:56
Like I remember rewatching Gladiator before going to see Gladiator 2.
11:00
And I think it was a second time, but the scene where Maximus's wife and son are killed hit me completely different.
11:10
Like just, you know, I'm in tears.
11:12
I rewatched Apocolipto here recently, which by the way, if you've not seen that movie, it is absolutely tremendous, but it is brutal.
11:18
That is not a date night movie. It is an absolutely brutal movie. It's a movie that Mel Gibson made.
11:22
But there are certain scenes in there that you only really understand if you're a father.
11:28
And even more specifically, you only understand if you're a father of a son because there's something about passing on your name.
11:34
There's something about passing on your genetics or something about seeing in a little boy, the man he could become, and being like, holy crap, I don't mess this up.
11:44
Like, I hope I don't mess this up type of a thing.
11:46
So I don't know how it is for you guys, but I've heard different things about your testosterone levels drop after you become a father because you've passed on your genetics.
11:55
And so, especially whenever you're done having kids, your natural testosterone will come down because you don't need it as much as you needed it beforehand.
12:02
Like all that kind of stuff. So I know there's some biology to this as well.
12:05
But for me, reading something like this, it's just, it's so hard to not just get emotional just thinking about everything that went in to the entire scene.
12:13
Every single word of it.
12:15
Thoughts?
12:16
Yeah, I think there's some things that we can comprehend or have an idea of.
12:22
But like you're saying, until you become a father, not just of sons, but just being a father of children really does put a different perspective on things.
12:34
You're never the same.
12:36
You're never the same.
12:38
But specifically talking about boys, yeah, that's something that if you don't have a son, I've read this passage dozens of times before I had a son.
12:51
And it just, it just, it does hit you different.
12:54
But one thing that is so amazing about this passage is men who have children, they will one day become a father.
13:06
God's always been a father.
13:07
He's always known what it is to love the son.
13:11
And so like he's saying, I have always, I've always operated in this way. I am still going to sacrifice my only begotten son for you.
13:26
And so we become a father, but God has always been a father.
13:30
So he knows what we're going through in that sense.
13:33
And so I think that is a really powerful thing to think about too.
13:35
It's like, God, God knows. He's not asking Abraham to do something that he's not going to do himself.
13:43
That's a really cool picture to think about.
13:46
Yeah, I agree with you, Kyle.
13:48
I mean, there's just things you just don't know until you know them, right?
13:51
And I have two boys, one's teenager, one's approaching teenage years.
13:58
And there is a sense of, you know, commission on my life to pass myself on to those boys.
14:06
My daughter is well, but in a different way.
14:09
And so it does hit hard, you know, and you're right.
14:12
There's an aspect of me that does not want to get it wrong.
14:15
I know that God provides the grace to bridge the gaps between my failures and his purposes for my kids.
14:22
And I know that in reading some of these stories, even that his timing is not my timing.
14:29
There's a lot of kind of expectations I have for my boys that are, I think, unreasonable because they are me playing God.
14:35
It's like, I just taught you this thing. You should do this thing now.
14:38
Yeah, you should mature and step into that, you know, that thing that I, you know, and fulfill the expectations I have for you now.
14:45
Where I know that God is doing his work in his timing. And I know Joby has said it before that our job as fathers is to take kindling wood and to bunch it up and get massive amounts of it and just put it there and make it readily available to the Holy Spirit
15:03
when it ignites that fire that it will burn bright.
15:06
So, but yes, what I don't want to do is I don't want to live with any regrets.
15:11
It doesn't mean I don't live without failure because I do, but I don't want to live with any regrets and that I have not done my job to categorize and train and to love my boys and my whole family as much as I possibly can as a human being.
15:29
Well, there's no you would think, okay, well, because you have two boys. I have two boys. It's like, all right, well, the first one doesn't do it. You know, you still got another one. There's no feeling of that.
15:39
It's like you, you want every single one of them to launch.
15:43
And I forget who told me this. I would love to be able to give them credit. So.
15:48
[inaudible]. Try to remember who said it. Anyway, someone was asking me, do you pray? Do you pray over your kids? And I go, Oh, yeah. So every night, you know, we pray and I kind of describe it goes, I didn't say pray with your kids.
16:01
I said, pray over your kids. And I was like, Oh, I think I missed something there. I like, you know, every night we get together and we, you know, little Eli will praise praying now and he'll kind of just say all the words he knows and he says what he's thankful for.
16:13
And James will pray and then dad will pray and then kind of that city's like, no, no, you pray over your children.
16:20
So do you, and he's like, do you ever think about the things that you want them to do, the type of man that you want them to be, blah, blah, blah.
16:26
And I'm like, Oh, yeah, all the time. He's like, pray that out loud over your boys. Let them hear you say that.
16:32
So it's like, Hey, I'm not just praying about how thankful I am about, you know, being able to eat food and live indoors. And, you know, even though we do pray for that, it's like.
16:40
Lord, please lead James and Eli to continue to get smarter and stronger, but also that they would be humble. They would be courageous and that they would grow to serve you and love you and bubble on that kind of stuff.
16:53
And that's that kindling, Eric, that you're putting around a kid, even if they don't quite understand, you know, these words or these concepts.
17:01
Like, what does that even mean being humble when you're four? Like, well, like, what exactly does that look like or go ahead, Matt?
17:05
That's a good point. I think that reminds me of Spurgeon talking about the violent will take it by force.
17:11
And he's talking about catacizing children specifically and he's speaking to Sunday school teachers and parents and, you know, parents saying, well, this kid hasn't, you know, hasn't come to the Lord or this kid isn't getting it.
17:22
And he's saying, have you violently pursued that in prayer? Have you been on your knees to the point that you are violently praying on behalf of that person?
17:32
And man, that's really convicting. Hey, on the Daily Blade, a couple months back, I did Spurgeon's sermon, compelled them to come in.
17:39
Where he basically says, you need to threaten people, right? Like, that they need to come to the Lord. Like, when you read Spurgeon, you don't get this idea that he was just going up and be like, hey, have you heard about Jesus and all that?
17:48
Like, it wasn't very soft. It was like, it was like, say Christ is Lord. Like, he was the mean before there was a mean kind of a thing.
17:55
But yeah, I mean, it's just, he's like, there's compulsion language in there that we don't have. Yeah, I think we often miss that because I think as fathers, we want to, we want to, like, fall to do as I say, not as I do, or do as I do.
18:08
And as I say, but then there is that aspect of like, man, do I pray over you? Our kids, just in general, not just our sons, but our kids in general.
18:20
And I think we can miss that. So I think that's a really, really good word on that.
18:25
Yeah. And just a couple of points to that, too, is we shouldn't just be praying over kids on the back end of conflict. Like, please, Lord, don't let my son be stupid anymore and that he should grow up to be a, you know, it shouldn't be like that, right?
18:36
We should be praying those almost as blessings over them.
18:40
And yeah, it's a wonderful thing. I've done that with my kids. And I hope they are blessed by that. And I hope they feel that I am genuine in that.
18:54
And the other thing I was going to say is when we do that, then we also provide space and opportunity for our boys to step into roles within our family as they get old enough to be able to do that.
19:04
It's like, you know, we have family meeting on Sundays. And I've told my oldest, I said, you know, one of the things I'd like for you to do, because someday you're going to be a leader and hopefully a spiritual leader of your family as well.
19:14
When we're sitting around that table, you know how I share a verse and a little bit about what it means to me and whatever I'd like for you, just in your daily reading, just pick one simple thing out, maybe from the, from the week.
19:26
And then I'm going to call on you at some point and have you just share from that, you know, let them step into those roles because not only are they hearing the blessing that you have on their life and praying for them, but you're also giving them opportunity to live that out.
19:40
I think the one of the things that's overwhelming about all this, and this is what this is what's helpful whenever you read when you just do start at the beginning of a book and just kind of go chapter by chapter as opposed to just popping into the sacrifice of Isaac and then popping right back out.
19:55
There was the promise that was given, and it took decades to come to fruition. And one of the first narratives we get in terms of the relationship between Abraham and Isaac is this one, because we don't know exactly how old Isaac was here.
20:10
Like, I've seen estimates all the way from teenage years to 30, but I remember the first time I read the story, I was thinking like kid like kiddo, like five, six years old, like young and it's like, no, like this is a kid that could carry his weight, right, at this time.
20:24
And, you know, there's been a lot made about whether or not Isaac, you know, willingly knew that he was going to be sacrificing all that but just for me, just I'm overwhelmed by the thought of like, you get this promise, you get this promise, it's delivered.
20:36
And then God's like, I want your son.
20:39
One thing I want to point out here, I mean, Abraham's not too, he's not, it wasn't that long ago that he was a pagan.
20:46
Yeah.
20:47
Okay, I mean, it wasn't that long ago.
20:50
So, despite, so again, this is just something I was kind of looking at last night, goes about saying that Abraham is utterly distraught at the prospect of losing his son Isaac.
21:02
Despite that emotional response, however, the command to sacrifice his son would not have been as shocking to Abraham as it is to us.
21:09
In the Canaanite worldview, the God who provided fertility was also entitled to demand a portion of what had been produced.
21:16
This was expressed in sacrifice of animals in grain and in the sacrifice of children.
21:22
Text from Phoenician and Punic colonies such as Carthage in North Africa described the ritual of child sacrifice as a means of ensuring continued fertility.
21:30
The biblical prophets and the laws in Deuteronomy and Leviticus expressly argue against this practice, but they wouldn't have had the law yet.
21:38
So, I think, in a very real way, this is God rooting out the last vestiges of paganism in Abraham.
21:47
That essentially that you may think that this practice would ensure a great nation is going to come from you, but that nation is only coming from me.
22:04
So, I'm testing your faith by putting this pagan practice on trial in a very real sense.
22:11
I also want to point out it took three days to get there.
22:17
What would be going through your mind over three days?
22:23
Honestly, those three days is a tremendous grace from God because if he would just say, "Go sacrifice Isaac right now," you couldn't go do something impulsively.
22:36
You think about the process that you would go through.
22:41
I don't have sons, so that's why I was very silent on the last section there.
22:45
I'm a girl dad through and through.
22:47
But the confusion, the grief, the horror, the rationalization, the plotting, but ultimately when they arrived, Abraham had already made his decision.
22:58
Dare I say he pre-decided?
23:07
He pre-decided before he left, because again, we don't see any indication from the text that he hesitated to get ready for this.
23:09
So, Angel Studios actually did a movie or it was released with Angel Studios called His Only Son, which talks about this.
23:17
That may have been the first time where I thought about the three days.
23:22
If you know what you've already pre-decided to do and you're walking with your son and you're the only one that knows what's going to happen and he has no idea, what in the world is that like?
23:34
There's really no corollary to anything I can think of because it's not like, "Okay, you're on death row with somebody and their execution date's coming up in three days."
23:41
No one's surprised getting executed.
23:44
This is a known thing and it's only known to one person and it's dad.
23:49
Like, yikes! I mean, that's such a heavy thing, especially because we don't see that he has any hesitation here.
23:56
None.
23:57
Well, and I think it's also interesting three times within this chapter, God says to Abraham, "Your son, your only son."
24:08
Yeah.
24:09
In the literal sense, this is not His only son.
24:13
Right.
24:14
Who's God talking to?
24:16
Well, I mean, you're talking about Jesus.
24:19
Yeah.
24:20
And I think that's my biggest takeaway is within redemptive history.
24:24
This is a promise fulfilled to Abraham and it's been a long time coming for Abraham, but we're not even halfway through the story of the plan that God is working out through His people.
24:37
And the child of promise who is Isaac obviously is a foreshadowing of the ultimate child of promise in Jesus.
24:46
Yeah.
24:47
And like, yeah, so that's a good point.
24:50
Like, your son, your only son, that's a very specific intentional language to call out like, "Hey, this is happening."
24:59
Well, and you hear also Abraham multiple times in that same chapter echo what we see in Isaiah 6, 8 when God is saying, "Who will go for us and who shall we send?"
25:12
And Isaiah says, "Here I am. Send me."
25:15
I don't know that I read this anywhere else, but several times in that chapter there, God's saying something to Abraham.
25:23
He says, "Here I am."
25:24
It's, I guess, a posture of, "I'm available and I'm willing to go."
25:29
Yeah.
25:30
The other thing that's interesting here, I don't know about you all, but I feel like this is the story that has brought us, brought up most frequently when people want to impune the character of God.
25:40
They like, they love to point out like he made Abraham sacrifice Isaac.
25:45
And it's like, "Well, no, he didn't." But he made him think that. It's like, "Okay, let's just be honest here."
25:55
We ask God to do this every day, and our sinful nature is what required God to give up his only son, a God who abhors human sacrifice.
26:08
You know, has laws against it allowed his only son to be sacrificed for our sin.
26:14
We demand that same sacrifice from God.
26:18
God being merciful to Abraham saves Isaac.
26:22
But if anything, this reveals how much better God is than us.
26:26
We speak of the story negatively on Isaac and ignore the fact that due to our own sin, we put God in the place of Abraham and Jesus in the place of Isaac and simply say carry on.
26:36
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. One of the things I wrote this down as a note in my phone, I think we elevate the innocence of Isaac.
26:44
He's human, so therefore he is under the curse.
26:47
And so God, the sovereign creator of the universe, is well within his rights to just say, "He's mine. He's gone.
26:55
Like, I want justice because he is a sinner."
26:58
And to what you're saying, in his mercy, he is saying, "No, I am not going to kill him because I have a bigger plan, but according to God's law, he is under that curse."
27:13
So again, he would be well within his rights to say, "He's gone. He's dead. I require justice in this moment."
27:22
And the only person who was ever on this earth who lived a sinless life who wouldn't have been under that curse, he says, "Yeah, that's who's going to go. That's where all the sins go."
27:35
That's going on. That's Jesus for those of you listening.
27:39
Another interesting, so Mount Moriah, and I've learned a lot of this stuff from Terry Fakes, talking about Mount Moriah, what a significant place that is now, and then throughout the journey of the Israelites and then Jesus.
27:58
And Mount Moriah is where he takes Isaac. If you fast forward to chronicles, Solomon builds his temple there. But then this is an interesting picture that God paints for us too, if you look at it.
28:14
So God from heaven says he staves the blade. He staves the sword of justice that's coming down on Isaac's head. Then you fast forward to chronicles. David's, I'm going to butcher this because I forgot my notebook, but David is at, he's basically in the same place.
28:33
And the angel of the Lord, he sees the angel of the Lord, ready to smite. He has the sword of justice in his hand.
28:42
Where is he hovering over? Mount Moriah. And he staves his hand of justice again. And then finally, Jesus, the sword of justice comes down on the innocent head to pay for the sins of us all.
29:00
The poetry that God has put within this story is just unbelievably amazing. Well, and it goes back. I mean, I've been kind of obsessed with this whole thing that's going to be part of my sleeve on my left arm and things like that.
29:13
So, I mean, if we go back to 1 Samuel 17, this is David and Goliath. Okay. So David is a boy, killing Goliath, hits him in the face with a stone. He first of all, he threatens him. He says, I'm going to kill you with your own sword, right?
29:26
Goes over there after he hits him in the head and then takes out a sword and cuts his head off and holds his head up.
29:31
Now, there's a kind of a throwaway line, seemingly a few verses later in 1 Samuel 17, where David takes Goliath's head to Jerusalem. Okay. So we need to talk about this a little bit.
29:42
So Jerusalem at this time was not the city of David. Obviously, this is a Jebusite fortress at this point. So he can't take the head of a conquerant enemy into Jerusalem. Okay.
29:54
And so, as far, and this is where the Bible ends in terms of what it says happened. It says he took the head to Jerusalem. But at that point in time, if you were the conqueror of another people group or something like that, you would typically take the head of the conquered king or a nobleman or something like that,
30:12
or you would place it on a spike or something like that, or put it in a high place to put it on display, which is basically like, hey, run up, get done up, you know, Fafo, like this is what's going to happen if we have anything go on here.
30:25
But Christian and Jewish tradition has that King David, not King David at this time, just boy David, wanted to do something important with the head, and so he wanted to bury it in a high place, but he couldn't go into the city.
30:38
But across from the temple, the nearest mountainside is Mount Mariah, and it is said that he buried the skull there. And so that became colloquially known as the place of a skull.
30:51
It also kind of resembled a rock formation. It looked like a skull, right? It was it was called. Yeah, the place of a skull. And then when we fast forward, and we get to the person of Jesus, obviously he wasn't crucified inside a city limits.
31:04
He went across and he was crucified at Golgoth, and we see that described in the Gospels. And so when you read verse 14, so Abraham called the name of that place, the Lord will provide.
31:14
As it is said to this day on the Mount of the Lord, it shall be provided. I mean, it's just like, what, because again, it's future tense.
31:23
Right. That's a little bit of conjecture, because again, the Bible does not tell us that David buried it up there, but it does follow that the narrative that we see there that, you know, we see this with Abraham and Isaac.
31:33
Mount Mariah, then we see David and Goliath. Where does he take the head of Goliath? Mount Mariah and him defeating him having Goliath delivered into his hands is a foreshadowing of him providing a sacrificial lamb for the sins of humanity.
31:49
And it's just like, yeah, it's possible that somebody could have weaved all these different disparate stories together to kind of create this narrative, or it's just true.
31:57
Or that's also the future language that Abraham uses as a prophet to say, this is the place the Lord will provide to where ultimately Jesus will provide for our, like the covering of our sins by his death and burial and resurrection.
32:14
That's, man, there's just the Bible is incredible. It is incredible. And I had written down that did he, did Abraham trust the promise or the promise or already had to trust the promise or on that.
32:27
And I had this quote, it's kind of long. I didn't realize how long it was by Charles Spurgeon. I'd love to read it.
32:32
He says, brethren, there are times with us when we are called to a course of action, which looks as though it would jeopardize our highest hopes.
32:39
A Christian man is sometimes bound by a duty to perform an action which, to all appearance, would destroy his future usefulness.
32:46
I've often heard men urge as a plea for remaining in corrupt church that they may have obtained an influence in its midst.
32:54
And by reason of their position, they might lose if they followed their conscience and were true to God.
33:00
They are bound to lose all their supposed influence and renounce their apparent vantage ground sooner than commit the least trespass of their conscience.
33:07
As much bound to do so as Abraham was bound to offer up Isaac, in whom all the promises of God were centered.
33:14
It is neither your business nor mine to fulfill God's promise nor to do the least wrong to produce the greatest good.
33:21
To do evil that good may come is false morality, a wicked policy. For us is duty. For God is the fulfillment of his own promise and the preservation of our usefulness.
33:33
Is that the first Spurgeon quote?
33:36
Yeah, has Spurgeon ever been mentioned? I don't think he's ever been mentioned.
33:40
Who is this Spurgeon of which you speak?
33:43
Some dude.
33:45
I will also point out, again, this is some commentary that I got into last night, but perhaps it's better to think of the obstacles throughout this cycle of Abraham, the story of Abraham.
33:59
Throughout the cycle as the prospect connected to various situations.
34:04
The view suggests that it was not barrenness that was the obstacle. It was the prospect of childlessness.
34:12
It was not a lot that was the obstacle. It was the prospect that in the future his descendants might lay claim to the land.
34:19
It was not Ishmael per se that was the obstacle.
34:22
It was the prospect that he or his descendants might overshadow Isaac's role as Abraham's heir in the future.
34:28
It is not a bimilex taking of Sarah that was the true obstacle, but the prospect of an uncertain paternity for the heir in Isaac.
34:36
Following this line of thought, it is not now the impending death of Isaac that is the obstacle.
34:42
Rather, it is the prospect that Abraham and his descendants may be more attached to the promised blessings and benefits of the covenant than to God.
34:51
This obstacle, as many as any others, brings jeopardy to the integrity of the covenant.
34:58
Essentially, breaking that down, this act is ensuring that Abraham and Isaac would not be more attached to the promised blessings of the covenant and that they are more attached to God.
35:17
Because, in a very real sense, God is showing I can take all of this away just like that.
35:24
Yeah.
35:28
I'll keep going. Sorry.
35:31
A little distracted over here will make sense. I'll tell you all here in a second.
35:34
No, I think that's a good point that God wills and does what he pleases.
35:39
Another thing that is interesting, the ram. The ram is stuck in a thicket. I mean, obviously, we weren't there and we don't have photocopies of pictures that were taken by anybody there.
35:52
The ram in the thicket, I can't help but think that there are probably some thorns in there, and the ram perhaps looked like he had a crown of thorns.
36:02
Obviously, I know that's straight up speculation and conjecture, but again, just a poetic picture of what is to come.
36:11
Then the angel of the Lord, I've not done a ton of research on this, but there are some instances where the angel of the Lord, where it's not an angel of the Lord, it's the angel of the Lord, is Jesus.
36:30
There is this theological concept. I think that's the right way to put that.
36:36
That the angel of the Lord, the Theophany is Christ. There are many examples of that.
36:42
My favorite example is in Second Kings when Hezekiah prays and the angel of the Lord comes and just smites 185,000 Assyrians.
36:52
What a badass move that is. Again, this is just conjecture, but the angel of the Lord, and if you believe that that's Jesus, it's literally Jesus going, "No, no, no, no, no, don't do it. It's not time. Don't kill your son."
37:08
I think that's just an interesting thing to think about as well.
37:12
Sorry, Joby, if I just preempted, sorry, Joby, if that's wrong. If we pull in that there a little bit more, I think we just kind of forgot. We're all morons, and we just kind of forgot to apologize for it.
37:24
We haven't done tell Terry. We haven't had a sorry, Joby, in a while.
37:30
Maybe we're just better at this. I don't know.
37:32
That's not it.
37:34
That is not it at all.
37:36
Okay, but let me pull in that thread just a little bit more. Sorry, Joby.
37:42
Verse 15, "And the angel of the Lord called Abraham a second time from heaven said, 'By myself I have sworn to clear as the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son. I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand that is on the seashore, and of your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.'"
38:04
Okay, but we go back up to, sorry, I thought I had my finger on it.
38:10
But the angel of the Lord, verse 11, "Call to him from heaven and said, 'Abraham, Abraham,' and he said, 'Here am I, do not let your hand on your boy and do anything to him. For now I know that you fear God seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me. Again, your only son.'"
38:23
This is Jesus saying, "No, wait, that's my job." And it's just kind of like, again, this is why when you get into more parts of your Bible, again, if you unhitch from the Old Testament or if you just stay in the Gospels, that's not a super negative thing, but again, the three words here in the ESV at the end of verse 12, "Your only son, you have not withheld your only son from me."
38:47
And if this is a theophany, if this is Jesus, it's just like, no, you've proven yourself a righteous here, but he doesn't say here, "I will be the sacrifice," or anything like that, but it's just like, this is not the eventual sacrifice that is promised.
39:02
What he does later say, "By myself I have sworn," and he's, "God is swearing by himself," similar to how he swears by himself, and I think it was Browning that brought this up a whole long, long time ago when we were talking about covenants.
39:16
And he passes through, God passes through, and Abraham does not, which was counter to what was supposed to happen with covenants.
39:27
And God said, "If I fail, let me be torn into, if you fail, let me also be torn into," which obviously is a picture of Jesus being sacrificed.
39:40
So I swear by myself, or by myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, is a very interesting way to put that.
39:51
Man, this chapter is just so, go ahead, go ahead.
39:58
And I was going to say, there's a lot that gets accomplished just by this test of Abraham's faith. I mean, there's several things that you can kind of circle in terms of why this is such a seminal event in Scripture.
40:13
Because number one, it does strengthen Abraham's faith.
40:16
There's no other way to read that on a faux show that that happened to give, but it also gives Isaac a firsthand experience of the God his father has come to know over the years of association, because Isaac gets to actually see God's mercy himself.
40:31
To enable the world to see how justified God was in selecting Abraham as the recipient of the covenant promises, Abraham was obedient in all of this, so it does make sense that God would pick him for the covenant.
40:43
And then to offer a picture of the father's pain in sacrificing his own son, as God eventually did in offering up Jesus.
40:51
And again, this also still does demonstrate how God abhors human sacrifice. He didn't let it happen except for one time.
40:59
Winkler, I was super distracted a second ago, so I heard you mention this, but I didn't hear exactly what your point was.
41:04
When you were talking about how usually atheists are people that are like anti Bible, anti God, they will bring this up and be like, hey, this is like a horrible, terrible thing.
41:13
Like they're missing the thread that God was like, no, actually, I'm going to give my son. I'm not going to take your son.
41:19
They missed that part of the story. Did you make that point earlier?
41:21
I did. I mean, it's essentially, it's not just the fact that you're leaving out the second part of the story, which is God says, yeah, never mind, I got this.
41:30
You're leaving out that story. But I also, I mean, I just, I'll bring it up again.
41:35
Those same people, you know, those same people are the same people who are looking at Jesus and saying, yeah, take that.
41:44
And I mean, if you put your play, if you put yourself in the place of God and put God in the place of Abraham and Jesus in the place of Isaac, we are not saving Jesus.
41:54
We're not. And so that's why I start, that's whenever people try and use this to impue in the character of God.
42:02
How are you not able to look at yourself and say, you did not save Jesus, nor could you, but if you could, if you had that power, would you?
42:15
Well, would you? And it's more revelatory of what we're seeing in this situation that if we were in this spot, yeah, but I guess here's the thing.
42:24
No one alive has been in this spot. You were promised a son from God, but you had to wait several decades.
42:32
And then that same God requires of you, the thing that you waited on very imperfectly, as we've seen in our past studies of Genesis, you waited on it very imperfectly.
42:41
You got it. And then that's the number one thing that he requires of you in this moment and how many of us wouldn't, wouldn't do that.
42:49
There's kind of a macabre photo negative of this. I saw a video. I don't know if you all saw this recently, but there were women.
42:55
They were interviewing a bunch of mothers, one of those videos with a bunch of, you know, music and, you know, a bunch of cuts and all that kind of stuff.
43:00
But it's all these different mothers and it was asking them, do you love your kids?
43:03
And they're like, Oh, I just love my kid. And they're giving all these reasons and all nice.
43:06
And then the video takes a massive turn and they go, would you kill for your child?
43:11
And one right after the other, these women said, no, I couldn't possibly like kill someone.
43:19
Yes. What if you had to kill someone to save your child? And they said, no. And I'm like, what?
43:26
The mama bears that I'm surrounded by and the women that I know of in my life is just like, these women would claw out your kill you or I will die.
43:37
Right. In one of those situations, because it's one thing for like a man to say that, because, you know, at the end of Tim Kennedy's like,
43:42
Lee's apparently Joe Rogan experience, he was talking about someone trying to hurt his kids and he was like, look, dude, I will wear your skin.
43:47
And like, fathers understand that. Like, you come, you come at my kids and it's like, there's nothing that I won't do to mutilate your body.
43:55
Right? Just to make sure no one else tries me. But in this type of situation, you have these people that are like, they can't even fathom shedding blood of someone else to save their child.
44:05
And now in this story, we have verse 10, then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to what to slaughter his son.
44:13
He had the knife in his hand. Like this wasn't like, Oh, he got stopped on the way as he was setting up the altar. It's the most dramatic of dramatic circumstances.
44:21
So there's a context clue there too. When the angel of the Lord says Abraham, Abraham, the repetitiveness of this speaks to the urgency of the situation.
44:30
It's not a, like you're saying, he's going up the mountain. Like he's literally about to kill this kid and the angel, Abraham, Abraham, that's urgency.
44:38
Like he's, no, like you're literally about to go through with the act. And so, yeah, he's right in the middle of it.
44:45
But is, is there something I just thought of just a few minutes ago, like we're called to sacrifice the things that we would call most dear to us.
44:57
There's, there's a similar story in Jesus telling the rich young ruler who claims to be perfect and he's, you know, upheld the law and all this stuff.
45:08
Well, yeah, what else must I do? Basically, Jesus basically tells him give up your, your money and follow me.
45:17
And there is kind of a similarity here going, okay, this is the son that I promise you, like there, there was like, it was hyped up.
45:26
Like I told you, this was what I was calling you out for. I'm giving you this, this kid. And now I'm asking you to give it up.
45:35
And Abraham was willing to do so. And I think that is kind of a microcosm of what we're asked to, we're not asked to sacrifice our kids, but we can put our kids on the altar of idolatry.
45:51
Absolutely.
45:52
And that's a no, no. So sacrificing the things that we think are the most important is definitely something we should take from this.
46:02
This goes back to what you were saying a little bit earlier, Eric, are we idolizing the fact that they are our progeny or are we idolizing who we want them to end up being, right, because there's a difference.
46:15
And I go back and say this again, this is a St. Louis Cardinals example, but around the same time period, shut your stupid.
46:24
You're going to be a fun story and you're going to feel like a jerk here in about five seconds. But around the same time, the greatest cardinal of all time.
46:34
And one of the greatest players of all time, Stan mutual died. He was in his 90s, I believe when he died, but also a 20, 21 year old super stud youngster named Oscar Tavares, who was the future of the franchise.
46:47
He was going to take up the mantle of Albert Pujols because this was after he left to take a huge contract with the angels. Oscar Tavares was the future.
46:55
He died in a car accident in the Dominican Republic drunk driving driving a ridiculous rate of speed and died in a car accident.
47:02
And I remember the difference at the time was we were mourning, you know, again, we don't know these people, but you're a fan.
47:09
And so there's kind of this disjointed love thing, but we were mourning what we had with Stan mutual, but with Oscar, we were mourning what could have been because he could have been a bust.
47:18
He could have been a guy. He got a big contract and then he doesn't live up to it like there's any or he could have gone on to be the greatest player of all time.
47:23
Who the heck knows somewhere in between. But that's what I wonder, like, is it the I'm idolizing the fact that this is my progeny and I'm just no matter what they do.
47:31
I'm proud of him that friggin new age nonsense or is it just like I'm I'm I'm worshiping at the altar of who they're going to be because it's good.
47:41
It's a reflection of me. You know, it's like whenever that dad pushes his kid to take extra penalty shots and take extra free throws and take more batting practice because it's like they need their kid to be something special so that they're something special.
47:53
Am I making sense?
47:54
Yeah, I think it's probably a little bit of both.
47:56
Yeah, I was gonna say there's there's probably I mean, there's two types of parents. I mean, I can I can tell you that I can tell you that my father was a lot more of the second type.
48:05
You know, which is, you know, take your 100 swings a day with your baseball bat and and, you know, fine tune your swing and.
48:14
Okay, I know you went three for four but let's talk about the one at bat that you failed. You know, it's I had that but then I also had the mom on the other side that was I would say a little bit more on the first side.
48:25
She just loved her kids.
48:27
Now, I don't know that we were idols to either one of them, but I think it's real easy to turn your kids into idols.
48:34
I'll quote Luke 1426 if anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters. Yes, and even his own life. He cannot be my disciple.
48:46
Yeah, that's good. What I noticed here is, sorry, I'm shifting gears just a little bit where it says, do not lay your hand on your on your boy or do anything to him.
48:56
For now, I know that you fear God. Interesting statement. Why does that need to be said? Was there a I didn't know you feared me until you did this?
49:07
If we're talking about the omniscience of God. Does this get into a discussion of workspace righteousness?
49:16
Yeah, I guess it could or fruit, which I don't tell John MacArthur because none of us get to go according to him.
49:24
But like, OK, this is this is a work that Adam Adam Abraham had to perform to to prove that he had fear of the Lord, but it wasn't the work that made him righteous, but he had to show it.
49:40
The work, though, he didn't do all he did was the Lord. He did the lead. Yes, Lord. Yeah, he had the faith.
49:48
It's just a test of his faith. I don't know if it was necessarily a work. I don't know if that would necessarily qualify because I mean, I would think for it to be a work you would have to carry through with the act.
49:59
I guess it was obedience. Everything along the way was was the work. So go to the land, go to Moriah, like, you know, take stuff with you, take them up there, get the knife. So it was obedience along the way.
50:10
Yeah, I think like I'm trying to think like if I was at a parade and sitting on the curb watching the parade, I would only see a certain aspect of that parade. There'd be a lot in front of me, a lot behind me.
50:22
And so there's that perspective and that's a man. Maybe we'll just say it's a man's perspective and like a humans perspective, whereas God would because he's outside time and space and be up above that parade.
50:33
And you'd basically see the whole thing happening at the same time. I guess in another way, maybe like a movie that you were mentioning, like, apocalyptic or earlier, you might want to spot. You might want to tell somebody that there's a spot, you know, 47 minutes and 23 seconds in and it's epic.
50:49
You know, you got to watch it. So you can basically, because you've seen it from start to finish, you can take them to that spot. So it makes me wonder if like this is not God saying, I didn't know this thing.
51:01
No, I know this thing about you. It's just him knowing the whole story, looking down from the top. He's like, that's it. 47 23. Boom. You just hit it.
51:11
Oh, I see. I was already going to happen. Yeah. I think this is kind of this is kind of a picture of the sanctification of Abraham.
51:19
It was like earlier, he's, you know, God counts his faith as righteousness. And it's the faith that God will deliver on his promise that God says, okay, because you believe me.
51:30
I'm counting it to you as righteousness. But now we're seeing and just in like in our own lives where we are, we are justified. We are being justified and we will be justified.
51:40
And through our sanctification, our works at a certain point should align with our faith and they should commingle with our faith into to quote our boy, John MacArthur.
51:50
Like the fruit should be sweet because the faith has produced those things. And so the faith as, as you're, you know, talking about and I'll track my previous statement because like he didn't do the final work.
52:02
But as you were saying, like he was doing the work in preparation is work. So he was in faith.
52:09
Acting and working alongside God in his obedience. So there, this, this is kind of commingling of the two. And that's why like those things are, those things are intertwined.
52:21
And you can't separate him. So I think he's both. Yeah. So it makes me wonder if like part of what God is saying that almost as a, you know, there's, there's God's providence and there's man's kind of responsibility within that.
52:34
It's almost, maybe it's like a, it's like he, he's affirming or congratulating Abraham for something.
52:40
Can't see a firm. You know, we did so good. We made it like almost an hour. Go ahead. Finish your point.
52:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like, I wonder if that sometimes just God's like, it's like us congratulating our kid for something we know they could do and that they were going to do.
52:59
So maybe that's part of it that God knew is going to happen. It's just the way he says it.
53:04
One thing I wanted to bring up, I think I alluded to it a little bit earlier. Have you all read much on people? Because every, no one focuses on Isaac here.
53:12
Because Isaac is just, you know, the kid that just didn't end up getting killed. Right. And so everyone's focused on every other part of the story where there are people that are like, no, Isaac was part of this.
53:22
Like there are people that imply in their commentary that, you know, Isaac was aware of the sacrifices his dad needed to make. And he willingly went up there and like put himself down there on the altar and all that.
53:33
I don't see where they get that from the text. I don't see how you can surmise that. We can't say that that's not what happened, but you kind of get on saying it doesn't say either way.
53:43
Yeah, it really doesn't. Eugene Constantino in her book, The Crucifixion of the King of Glory, which he shout out to Eugenia Constantino, the crucifixion of the King of Glory, my goodness.
53:52
It's an incredible work. If you haven't read it, it's, it is. You should, you should read it.
53:56
Four weeks before Easter, read it. It's great. Yeah, for sure. There's a part in it. I can't remember if she dedicates a whole chapter to it or if it's just within the discussion of it.
54:08
But she talks about the ancient Israelites or the Jewish people, pre, pre Jesus, like Old Testament Jews, but like they had, they had this reverence for the binding of Isaac.
54:19
And it was this, he was considered this messianic figure. He rides on a donkey king. He carries the wood up and he willingly gets on the pile.
54:32
He's ready. Like he willingly offers himself up. So there was this tradition of the binding of Isaac as him being an exalted figure for the lack of a better term of like, I, I'm willingly going to be sacrificed.
54:48
I will, I will say the fact that he's bound does make it seem to me that he wasn't necessarily a willing participant. Where, where does he bathe? What, what, what?
55:03
He's binding. Yeah, it says late bound Isaac in verse nine. Yeah. Yeah. It just doesn't say that after he struggled with his son for 30 minutes, he was like, no, dad, stop. You know, I don't know.
55:21
That's a, that's interesting. Maybe that's ritualistic. I don't know. But the fact that they're think so. Maybe. Well, but I mean, they bound animals because it's like, well, you can't let them get up there and then let them get away.
55:33
I think so. Our nature, our nature, you know, fight or flight. You know, it's hard to overcome those things. So you think about like, okay, my kids getting, you know, a shot or whatever.
55:49
They can, they can understand, okay, I need the shot. I'm going to go. I'm willing. I'm going to go. Then when the needle comes out, you know, you've got, you've got to restrain that kid because fight or flight takes, takes over. And you know, it's, they're jumping off or they're fighting.
56:03
And so maybe, I don't know, I'd have to, I'd have to think about that a little bit, but that, that may be part of it too. Like, hey, I know you're saying, yes, like, man, when I come down, one, if you struggle, this ain't going to be clean, this is going to take, this is going to take a minute.
56:18
Like, if you're bound, I know that I can do this and you're not going to suffer, but also like, I don't need you backing out last minute because this is a test of our fate. I don't know.
56:29
I think that's, that's speculation and conjecture, but like, sure.
56:32
Well, let's stay in the land of speculation and conjecture because one thing that I thought about, or go ahead, go ahead.
56:37
You know, you're going to make a point on the previous thing.
56:39
Say something on your smart face.
56:40
Do it.
56:41
Never land because that's what I thought you were going to say.
56:43
Yeah, is it? Was that this week or last week where we were talking about? Like Michael Jackson never never land or like, okay, we don't have to go there.
56:50
So he had to. So can we assume that he was going to follow through with it?
56:58
I think because I'm going to answer the conjecture question because like, why would the, why would the angel of the Lord say, you know, for now I know that you fear God if the Lord is omniscient and knew whether or not he was going to at the last second go.
57:12
No, drop the knife and say, I can't do this.
57:14
But there are other people as well that they're like, well, we never saw.
57:18
I've seen, I've seen a bunch of different things.
57:20
There were people that are like, what God should have done, which is a great way to start a sentence, everybody.
57:24
What God should have done is he should have waited until the knife had gone through or no, all the way through, not just had come, come down because you can stop yourself at the last second.
57:35
Right, you know, that's the Czech swing, but he comes all the way down and, you know, goes through the heart or goes, you know, through the neck or whatever, whatever he was going to do.
57:44
And then at that moment, God goes, all right, you've proved yourself worthy and then he just, you know, goes back in time and then just like zips apps his body back together and everything's good to go.
57:54
And again, I don't want to be in the land of, well, I think God should have done this to really know, but I have, I have thought about it before as a thought experiment, like, do we know for sure that he was going to follow through with it because it doesn't explicitly say
58:08
Hey, we don't know, but we can assume that God, God, God said that's why I landed on it, but it's just another thought experiment.
58:14
I think there's also some context clues there, the urgency of the angel of the Lord's plea, his intervention. I think also, I think Abraham, I think, I mean, you're, you're talking about the God who created the universe who, like, bound up wounds, who is giving you a son at 100.
58:33
Like, I think there's a Abraham probably thought, well, I mean, if I kill him, like, he can, he can raise him up.
58:38
But let's, let's go a very bait. Let's, let's think about it this way in terms of, like, how do we know that he would have done it? Okay, let's, let's think about this.
58:46
He gathers wood, right? He gathers wood before he goes and travels three days with a whole host of slaves, servants, you know, whatever, along with his son to the place where this sacrifice was supposed to be made.
59:05
I think the intention, going back to your point on the obedience and the sanctification, at this point, is there any doubt knowing what he's had to go through just to get there in terms of the obedience that he had just to get there?
59:21
Is there any doubt that he had every intention of following through with this? It did not seem like there were any stall tactics. He didn't be like, until I fully understand this whole thing, I'm not going to obey. It wasn't like that. It says he just got up early in the morning and started doing his thing, right?
59:35
Yeah.
59:36
No, I think he was going to do it. I was, I'm just imagining him getting here and then trying to come down and then angel the Lord literally grabs again.
59:44
So what was my other thing is like, what if he had hearing problems and like the Lord is trying to talk to him and he's just like, you know, again, I have all these dumb thoughts about this text, but I mean, of course God knows what he's doing.
59:53
So here's another interesting part of it. So he's, they get there and he tells the, the, uh, see his young man, he says, stay here with the donkey, I and the boy, Isaac, will go over there and worship and come again to you.
1:00:07
He doesn't say, I will come again to you. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm obviously going to get a bit off track of what we're saying, but I clearly, clearly there's this idea that Abraham understood like he believes that God is either going, like, that's where I think that's where I got when I first read this.
1:00:26
I think that's where I got the, well, he, I mean, probably thinks he's, you know, going to raise him up. Like, I, I have faith that you can, you can raise him up.
1:00:34
If I kill him, you can raise him up because you told, you literally told me that, that my offspring, Isaac.
1:00:42
Yeah.
1:00:43
Like if you like last couple chapters ago, like Isaac will hit, like my offspring will be, will be numbered greater than the stars through Isaac.
1:00:51
Right. Exactly.
1:00:52
So if I kill him, like that's over. If he's dead, he's, that's over. So if I, if I'm, if you're asking me to kill my son, like I have to, I kind of raises this question, like, did Abraham believe that God could raise Isaac from the dead?
1:01:07
I think the answer is probably yes.
1:01:08
I've got the answer for you right here.
1:01:10
Oh, great.
1:01:11
Here's 11 by faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac and he, who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his son, of whom it was said through Isaac, your shall your offspring be named.
1:01:24
He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which figuratively speaking he did receive him back.
1:01:33
Yeah.
1:01:34
Right.
1:01:35
There it is.
1:01:36
Thanks.
1:01:37
Yeah, Hebrews. Of course, if you're detached from the Old Testament, that doesn't mean anything.
1:01:42
Yeah.
1:01:43
We're going to hitch it all.
1:01:45
Do we need to get into a conjecture land about who in the heck wrote the book of Hebrews? Anybody?
1:01:49
Do we need to go there?
1:01:51
It's Paul. So it's fine.
1:01:53
You want to ask Chad GPT?
1:01:55
Ooh.
1:01:56
You asked Chad GPT.
1:01:58
Okay, I couldn't figure out it. Anyway, we'll talk about that off here, but I'm, I'm going to ask Chad GPT real quick.
1:02:03
What about Grock?
1:02:07
So that's a, that's a lot of muscle, right?
1:02:09
The new one, the new upgrade.
1:02:11
I'm missing.
1:02:12
For a reason I couldn't like get a sign.
1:02:13
They're missing out on a beautiful marketing.
1:02:15
Can you smell what the Grock is thinking?
1:02:17
Come on.
1:02:19
I think what, yeah.
1:02:21
I went to Grock, but I went to Gronkowski.
1:02:24
That'd be a good one too.
1:02:28
All right. So according to Chad, are you getting on Grock to ask?
1:02:31
I'm going to do it right here.
1:02:32
Okay.
1:02:33
We just had a spider man down with, okay.
1:02:36
Uh, the authorship of Hebrews, I would read it in a real bad voice, but that would get annoying.
1:02:40
The authorship of Hebrews remains uncertain, although some early Christian traditions attributed to Paul.
1:02:46
Most modern scholars agreed that its style and theology differs significantly from Paul's undisputed writings.
1:02:52
Other names such as Barnabas, Apollos, Luke, or even Clement of Rome have been proposed over the centuries,
1:02:57
but no consensus has been reached.
1:02:59
In essence, the author of Hebrews is anonymous.
1:03:02
And the questions of its true authorship continues to be debated among scholars.
1:03:05
Yeah.
1:03:06
What you got, Brian?
1:03:07
I got Barnabas, Apollos, Luke, or even Priscilla.
1:03:10
That's definitely not true.
1:03:13
Yeah.
1:03:14
But Paul, Paul is kind of the consensus even though not confirmed.
1:03:17
I listened to R.C. Sproul shout out.
1:03:20
Um, talk about this when he was, you know, he was doing some sermons on the book of Hebrews.
1:03:25
Um, and he believed that it was Paul and, um, not that I'm going to rest everything that, uh, my faith on everything that R.C. Sproul says,
1:03:33
but he made some really good arguments.
1:03:35
I don't remember what they are, but I remember walking away thinking, yeah, that makes sense.
1:03:38
That makes sense.
1:03:39
Yeah.
1:03:40
I mean, it's entirely possible that Hebrews is essentially Paul's teachings that has been transcribed by someone else.
1:03:47
It's entirely possible.
1:03:48
We saw that.
1:03:49
I mean, we see that throughout the Gospels, right?
1:03:52
You have the writings of other people based on the teachings of Jesus.
1:03:56
So I don't see, I mean, I don't, I don't guess I've ever really gotten too hung up on who wrote Hebrews.
1:04:01
Don't get a whole lot of heartburn out of it, to be honest.
1:04:04
Is, is what's in there true?
1:04:06
And I'm done.
1:04:08
Yeah.
1:04:09
People, yeah, people screaming at their, uh, I, I was an iPod.
1:04:13
We got people listening to us on the right pods right now click click click click like like plap that are getting mad
1:04:18
They're like gods the author guys. That's what we need to say. They're all red letters
1:04:24
Yes, all the more red letters shout out to voting bockin, but guys true. We've had quite the discussion of Genesis 22
1:04:31
But final thoughts before we wrap none man, what a
1:04:40
I just want to fall back on the just beautiful picture that God paints
1:04:44
You know so many years, and I don't know how many years this is off the top of my head, but you know
1:04:52
centuries before Christ comes he paints this beautiful picture of what he's going to do for us and
1:04:59
Man, I just it gives me goosebumps. Just reading this so
1:05:05
You know brush your teeth with that for sure. That's just a powerful thing to think about
1:05:10
Yeah, I'm just gonna go back to what you said earlier
1:05:14
If you're a parent and you see yourself and you don't read this story and get some sort of heartburn over the fact that
1:05:22
Like putting your plate putting yourself in the place of Abraham and this happening to your own child
1:05:27
Just understand that that's what God did for you
1:05:31
Amen to that and I guess the other thing I would think is again
1:05:35
We haven't talked a whole lot about Isaac or his perspective or all that
1:05:38
but he saw the faithfulness of his father and one thing that I've tried to remind myself because
1:05:43
You talk to certain people it's like every time you get an accolade or every time your business gets bigger
1:05:49
Or you get a promotion or something good happens for you?
1:05:51
You know your podcast grows in the rankings or whatever
1:05:53
That's a great opportunity to go even lower than you were before like to come low and to just be humble and submit yourself
1:06:00
And the most humbling thing that I continue to remind myself of is that I may not be the point and the two examples
1:06:07
I like to use is I bet you fill up the first thought. He was the point who was filled the first son
1:06:12
You would think Alexander the Great. Oh, that's right
1:06:18
I bet you filled the first thought he was the point but no one talks about Philip the first we talk about
1:06:22
Yeah, and so we we sort of think about that
1:06:26
I bet you Billy Graham's dad thought that he was the point
1:06:28
You know what I mean? And so I constantly think about undaunted life through the perspective of maybe I'm not the one
1:06:34
Maybe I'm clearing the way for James or Eli, right?
1:06:37
Like that's or something like that and which is to not put extra pressure on them or less pressure on me
1:06:42
but it's like
1:06:44
but think about what Isaac learned in that moment about the faith of his father the goodness of God like
1:06:50
So many things just by being present and watching his dad say yes, Lord
1:06:55
And that's modeled all the time for us like, you know
1:06:58
We talk all time about guys when you sin against your family against your kids and you get down on your knees and you ask for
1:07:04
Yes for you apologize to your kids and you ask for forgiveness
1:07:09
What a huge moment that is and so for me having grown up having a dad that never apologized for anything
1:07:15
much less
1:07:16
You know as needs to ask for forgiveness and to say that hey
1:07:19
I'm repenting of this this behavior that I had you're doing things and you're displaying things to your children
1:07:25
You're showing them that there's even when it doesn't make sense on a moral level according to culture that we're gonna
1:07:30
Abide by God's dictates and words and we're just gonna do what he says, right?
1:07:33
And we're just gonna show our obedience so guys appreciate y'all appreciate the discussion of Genesis 22
1:07:39
But we're gonna leave it there but come back here next week where we're gonna dig into Genesis 23 and 24
1:07:44
So make sure you read Genesis 23 and 24 this week and before we let you go
1:07:48
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Just go to www.undaunted.life and as always we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content
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The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember keep pushing back darkness
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