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0:50
This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
0:54
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:57
I would do my normal intro here, but these two doofs.
1:02
Guys, I'll do my intro.
1:04
I will do my actual intro, so land and leave this in.
1:07
This has become a point of like debate and consternation and negativity because between
1:12
the two of you, you both touched it and neither one of you turned it on.
1:16
I turned it on.
1:17
It's going.
1:18
Well, you did own your second attempt, but like we got video to prove it, but Zach was
1:21
we were fired.
1:22
It was from the last time.
1:23
I was waiting for you to start, then I was going to turn it on and then he's like, I got
1:26
it.
1:27
Well, yeah.
1:28
You kind of hopped in there ahead of the thing.
1:29
And now here's the thing.
1:30
The batteries are so low.
1:31
We can't even see it.
1:32
So that is so dumb.
1:33
But here we go.
1:34
We stopped in at 30 seconds, by the way.
1:35
Oh my gosh.
1:36
Howard, do you have anything to add with our stupid timer?
1:39
Okay.
1:40
Well, hey guys, this is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
1:42
Oh shoot, that's not even the right, the right notes.
1:44
This is the best intro of all time.
1:45
Guys, hey guys, guess what?
1:47
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:48
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:51
forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:54
Get it.
1:55
Get it.
1:56
All right.
1:57
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular doofy guys like us forging spiritual
2:00
resilience by digging into God's Word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that
2:03
journey with us.
2:04
That's Howard.
2:05
That's Zach.
2:06
That's Ryan.
2:07
But we need to kind of address something because, okay, you know, the timer's going.
2:09
It's fine.
2:10
Like I think we're recording.
2:11
Yep.
2:12
I hit the right buttons.
2:13
But Ryan, you brought something to everyone's attention before we started recording last week's
2:17
episode because you said there was like an AI thing where they took like a song that most
2:23
people would know if they heard it, but then they turned it into a Nirvana song or whatever.
2:26
Yeah.
2:27
So this guy, Mack Glocky, I think is his name and I was just like going through reels and
2:31
sometimes like they'll do mashups.
2:34
So like he's like, there's a song called Kids by MGMT and it's a, it's a pretty cool song.
2:40
I've known it for a while, but he like then goes ahead and does it as like Nirvana wrote
2:45
it.
2:46
And so I'm like, this guy has to do AI in regards to the voice because I'm listening
2:50
to it and the dude sounds exactly like Kurt Cobain.
2:53
I'm like, dude, there's no way, I mean, I can do voices.
2:55
I mean, I can sound like Scott Stapp if I wanted to, you know, or, or Eric Cartman, but
3:01
maybe pick one.
3:02
How about this?
3:03
How about this?
3:04
I need you to sing higher by creed as Eric Cartman.
3:07
Can you take me?
3:09
Yeah.
3:10
Did you practice this?
3:11
No.
3:12
Did you know?
3:13
I was going to ask you this.
3:14
Two days.
3:15
Where was me?
3:16
She.
3:17
Wow.
3:18
That's actually not bad.
3:19
So yeah.
3:20
So what is going on in this guy's way more talented than I am smack like a guy.
3:25
But dude, if you can get a chance, check them out.
3:27
Like this isn't an endorsement from forging Taylor anything like that cause like he does
3:31
like corn mash up and you might like some of this stuff.
3:33
Okay.
3:34
But I, what, what it brought up for me is anytime someone brings up Nirvana, they always bring
3:38
them up in a positive light.
3:39
And I got to tell you, if Kurt Cobain didn't blow his face off, I don't know that anybody
3:43
would have remembered that band because like they are one of, they're literally in that
3:48
they're on probably the Mount Rushmore of overrated bands.
3:52
You know, my son, my two year old Hank, so we're sitting there at breakfast or maybe
3:57
it's dinner.
3:58
I can't remember.
3:59
We're sitting at the table.
4:00
And he goes, I'm a motto.
4:01
I'm a matter.
4:02
He like starts like saying like, you can ask Rachel.
4:06
This is total truth.
4:07
So do you listen to this?
4:08
You drive down the road.
4:09
No, I don't.
4:10
Like I've like played, smells like teen spirit.
4:11
Like maybe a handful of times around him.
4:13
And that's your evidence that Nirvana is not overrated is that your two year old kind
4:16
of mama says the words this is how I know my kids know music because I asked my daughter
4:21
when she was like three or four, I said frozen or skillet and she said skillet and I have
4:26
it on the video.
4:27
Yeah.
4:28
I've seen that video.
4:29
That is very, very solid.
4:30
Yeah.
4:31
She's like skillet and then Hank knowing Nirvana smell like teen spirit just randomly sings it
4:37
is awesome.
4:38
It is kind of weird whenever a kid will like attach themselves to a random song like I
4:41
was playing this year or two ago, I was playing Master of Puppets, the actual song from the
4:45
Master of Puppets album from Metallica.
4:48
And then James is like, I want to hear it again.
4:49
I want to hear it again.
4:50
And like to this day when we get in the truck, that's what both boys want to hear.
4:54
They're like, play master song, play master song, but we need to get back to because in
5:00
my opinion, you like Nirvana, I think they're super mega overrated.
5:04
They're up there with the Beatles with you two with just these bands that are so popular
5:08
and so ridiculously overrated and terrible.
5:12
But I'm just curious for you guys, is there like a band or an artist where you're like,
5:17
because here's the thing, I know that I'm the weirdo.
5:19
Like we've talked about Lord of the Rings, like how I'm, you know, I'm the only guy that
5:22
doesn't like Lord of the Rings and I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but it's like,
5:25
when I listen to those bands, I'm like, gosh, this is so bad.
5:27
How do they have so much?
5:29
Like I can listen to we've joked about Taylor Swift, I can listen to Taylor Swift and get
5:33
why people like it.
5:34
I'm not a huge fan of a lot of her music, but I can at least get it.
5:37
But like even Led Zeppelin, that's a band that I listened to.
5:40
Maybe I needed to be a teenager in the 70s and I would have got it like, well, I'm dropping
5:43
acid.
5:44
I'm like, oh man, this is the greatest band ever.
5:45
But I just don't get it like art.
5:46
Do you all have bands that just like drive you nuts because you're like, how does this
5:49
band even have a following?
5:51
I just don't listen to them.
5:53
Fish.
5:54
That's another one.
5:55
Don't understand.
5:56
Bruce Springsteen, really?
5:57
I'm Bruce Springsteen.
5:58
Get out of here.
5:59
Some good stuff.
6:00
Pink Floyd.
6:01
I got a crazy Pink Floyd story.
6:02
So my uncle does like cranial angel passes like he's a nurse that does that.
6:06
What is that?
6:07
If you have a stroke, they basically take a like a camera or some sort of like weevil
6:14
thing and they go through your leg and open through your leg and go up through your main
6:20
vein all the way up to your head.
6:22
It's called a credit and they'll release medicine or they'll see what happened during
6:25
the stroke.
6:26
And so this lady's like lying on the table.
6:28
Oh, no, he gets a call.
6:29
He gets a call.
6:30
We're hanging out.
6:31
He gets a call.
6:32
He's like, hey, you want to come to work with me?
6:33
Sure.
6:34
So we get to work.
6:35
I'm like, sounds great.
6:36
That's like 12.
6:37
Scrubbed hair.
6:38
That hair.
6:39
So I definitely was like 12 or 13.
6:41
Perfect.
6:42
Yeah.
6:43
So I, we get in there and he's like, he's like, all right, man, this is what we're going
6:46
to do.
6:47
What I basically told you, this lady is like laying on the table.
6:50
She looks like she's dead.
6:51
This lady is dead laying on the table.
6:53
I was like, she dead.
6:54
And he's like, no, she's alive.
6:55
She's passed out.
6:56
And he's like, we're waiting on the doctor.
6:58
And so doctor comes in, they start doing some tests and he's like, oh, man, we got to
7:03
wait a little bit longer.
7:04
She's on blood thinners.
7:05
You know, and I'm like, so what's that mean?
7:07
He's like, dude, if we cut her open, she'll bleed out.
7:09
And I'm like, oh, okay.
7:11
And so he's like, hey, let's listen to some music while we wait.
7:13
Dude puts on pink Floyd.
7:14
Like I'm like tripping, you know, like in this kind of like dense room, this lady's
7:19
laying on the table like this.
7:21
And I'm just like, I'm like, dude, what if she wakes up and she wakes up to this?
7:25
She's going to think she died, you know, and he's like, I don't know, man.
7:29
He's like, she's probably going to die anyways.
7:30
And I was like, I was like, no, man, Uncle Mike, she can't die.
7:34
He's like, so I wouldn't pray for this lady, you know, as like a 12 year old.
7:39
And my uncle Mike's like, man, I hope that prayer takes, you know, my uncle Mike's pretty.
7:44
He's like, he's, he's a Christian, like he's, he's like me.
7:46
So we have the same line of thought and theology.
7:50
And he calls me like three weeks later, and he's like, I was like, Hey, what happened
7:54
to the lady?
7:55
He's like, Oh, yeah, man, she lived.
7:56
I was like, praise God.
7:57
I was like, hopefully you did that.
7:59
I did not do it.
8:01
I did not do it.
8:02
I did not do it.
8:03
I took took and claim for he claimed it.
8:05
He didn't claim it.
8:06
I've never, I've never listened to Pink Floyd again.
8:08
It freaks me out.
8:09
Wait, if I, if I didn't want to get this like taking down off YouTube, I would just play
8:12
it right now.
8:13
So, okay.
8:14
So you don't really get the Pink Floyd thing.
8:15
Zach Howard, is there like an artist or a band where you're like, I just don't get
8:18
it?
8:19
I don't understand.
8:20
Like mainstream country, Luke Bryant, all that stuff.
8:23
I just can't go to Georgia line.
8:24
I'm so far out of it.
8:25
I couldn't even tell you the artist at this point.
8:28
Yeah.
8:29
I can't say in that jelly roll, like bro country and Hardy, I don't get it.
8:33
Well, jelly roll is not exactly bro country because like, but I think he's super mainstream,
8:38
but he's like real, he, when you listen to his songs, it's not like tractors and back
8:43
roads.
8:44
That's not really.
8:45
That's not really.
8:46
He's like the nickel back of country.
8:47
Like it's probably fair, where it's like super popular, but maybe not a whole, not a whole
8:52
lot there.
8:53
So I'm like that.
8:54
But Howard, you're being awfully quiet.
8:55
I would just say my wife cracks up at me because I was raised again by a pastor.
9:00
And so I grew up listening to Michael W. Smith and Sandy Patty and all these.
9:03
Sandy Patty.
9:04
We talked about her and so every once in a while, I'll put on a throwback and she's
9:10
like, Oh my gosh, what are we listening to?
9:12
Cause she didn't, she grew up he, that she listened to the radio, her mom listened to
9:15
rap music and everything else.
9:17
There's still this is a wrap.
9:19
Her dad.
9:20
Listen to like Zeppelin, like Metallica, like, the funniest thing is if any of y'all would
9:23
ever have the privilege of meeting Lady Wicker Sham, like she's typically an address like
9:27
she basically is pioneer woman.
9:29
Like that's what I think of when I think of Lady Wicker Sham.
9:32
She's the real star playing in tall.
9:33
But to know that she probably knows like every single verse or line of gangster's paradise,
9:38
she probably does.
9:39
Ryan and I had a text message where were we at the other day and we were playing golf.
9:44
Yeah, we were playing golf and I sent her, I sent her, we sent her a Wu-Tang Clan and
9:51
I was like the RZA in the jizza.
9:53
RZA in the jizza.
9:55
Oh my gosh.
9:56
And so we started to text us about she knew the words and the words.
9:58
She knew the words.
9:59
I'm going to walk up to her tomorrow in church.
10:00
I'm just going to say, protect your neck.
10:02
Just to see what she says, she'll probably be like, she'll be like, yeah, that's right.
10:07
That's right.
10:08
All right, guys.
10:09
Well, we do need to get into the Bible discussion today.
10:10
We're covering Genesis 15 and 16.
10:12
So a lot of really, I mean, this is, these are a couple of pretty big chapters.
10:16
There's a lot here to discuss.
10:17
So Ryan, let's go ahead and start out here with you.
10:20
Let's do the first 20 verses of Genesis 15.
10:27
After these things, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision.
10:29
Fear not, Abram, I am your shield.
10:32
Your reward shall be very great.
10:33
But Abram said, oh Lord, what will you give me for I continue childless in the air of
10:38
my house is Elia, Elia, Elia, Elia, Elia, I don't think I can say it, but Elia, Elia
10:44
is our of Damascus and Abram said, behold, you have given me no offspring.
10:50
And a member of my house, and a member of my household will be my heir and behold, the
10:56
word of the Lord came to him.
10:57
This man shall not be your heir.
10:59
Your very own son shall be your heir.
11:01
And he brought him outside and said, and said, look toward the heaven, the number of stars.
11:07
If you are able to number them, then he said to him, you shall, so shall your offspring
11:12
be.
11:13
And he believed the Lord and he continued, excuse me, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
11:20
And he said to him, I am the Lord who brought you from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this
11:25
land you to possess.
11:27
But he said, oh Lord, how am I to know what that I shall possess it?
11:33
He said to him, bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram
11:37
three years old, a turtle dove and a young pigeon.
11:40
And he brought him all these, cut them in half and laid each half over against the other.
11:47
But he said, not to cut the birds in half.
11:50
And when the birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
11:54
As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell in Abram and behold a dreadful and great darkness
11:59
fell upon him.
12:00
Then the Lord said to Abram, no for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in
12:04
a land that is not theirs and will be servants there and it will be afflicted for 400 years.
12:10
But I will bring judgment on the nation they serve and afterwards they shall come out with
12:14
great possessions.
12:16
As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace.
12:19
You shall be buried in a good old age.
12:23
And they shall come back here in the fourth generation for the iniquity of the Amorites
12:28
is not yet complete.
12:30
When the sun had gone down and it was dark behold a smoking fire pot and flaming torch
12:37
passed between these pieces.
12:39
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram saying to your offspring I give this
12:43
land from this river of Egypt to the great river of the river Euphrates and the land
12:47
of the Canaanites and the Kenzeonites and the Catamanites and the Hittites and the Persiites
12:54
and the Referems and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Gerkshites and the Jebsuites.
12:58
I didn't see that last part.
13:00
I wasn't trying to trick you but nicely done, nicely done.
13:03
There's some interesting stuff here that I did want to point out.
13:06
So leasar of Damascus.
13:08
So if we go all the way back up to verse two, this is his chief servant.
13:11
And so in this day your chief servant would basically be heir to your possessions and different
13:16
things like that.
13:17
And so we still see this lament from Abram.
13:19
Like he's basically saying, God, you haven't done it yet.
13:23
Like, God, what's exactly going on here?
13:26
And we get a little hint here of Abram's, you know, where he's at mentally because in
13:31
the very first verse, we see that the word of the Lord came to him and said fear not.
13:36
So probably not saying fear not unless there was a sense of fear in this moment.
13:41
He was likely at this point, fearful of, so there was the, you know, because after these
13:46
things, that's the conquest of the invading kings that we just, you know, we're talking
13:49
about last week, right?
13:50
That we just kind of blew right through.
13:53
But he's likely fearful of some revenge, some blowback right now.
13:57
And so the very first word he gets from God is, Hey, hey, fear not.
14:01
I was reading in the sprawl commentary.
14:03
You know, he talks about how many times in our lives do we stand up for something like
14:07
Moses or like Abram did and then fear retaliation, you know, for us as men, there's a lot of
14:13
times we need to speak out against something or do we not speak out against it because
14:17
we're fearful of what may happen.
14:19
I mean, and to me, he's here, he's saying, you need to trust in me.
14:24
Don't fear.
14:25
Don't fear that retaliation.
14:26
It's going to come.
14:27
I'm going to be your shield.
14:28
I think that it really points out is like a roller coaster of faith, you know, he can
14:32
be riding high in faith in regards to lot in the land saying you go left.
14:36
I'll go right.
14:37
I'll go left and knowing that God's going to take care of him.
14:40
But then when it comes down to this, he's in fear again.
14:43
And I think some of the more I read, I think it was Moody commentary where he says, basically
14:47
he was an old man of little faith, ready, waiting to die, you know.
14:51
And so like that's where we kind of see here and when we see how God responds and God responds
14:55
again with patience, like that's one thing like after like reading multiple of these chapters
15:00
as we go through these chapters is that God's patience is always on point.
15:07
It's crazy.
15:08
So it just makes me want to have more patience towards other people that I have in my life.
15:14
So I think it's a really good thing to look at is that, you know, hey, we're going to
15:17
have those roller coasters of up and down in our faith, but God has always always had
15:21
patience towards us to even to the point that God assures Abram of an heir and also possession
15:28
to the land.
15:29
But he also counted him as righteous.
15:30
And like you read that again where he counts him as righteous, not because of his deeds
15:34
or what he always counts him as righteous to when he has little faith, you know, and
15:39
like we'll see that with a lot, the whole count a lot with righteousness, even though
15:42
his faith is little.
15:44
And that's where it just goes again though.
15:45
It's not earned, you know.
15:46
And this is where he sets the tone.
15:47
I didn't realize this, but this is the first time in the Bible that it records the word
15:53
of the Lord came and it's also the first time where he says, do not be afraid, which then
15:58
comes to Isaac and Jacob and obviously several after.
16:02
So he's citing the tone that you should not be afraid and that you should be in the word
16:06
and trust the Lord.
16:07
Yeah.
16:08
I got to go back just a touch because everybody here at the forging table knows that Ryan
16:13
loves Spurgeon.
16:14
Yeah.
16:15
So we try to find a good surgeon.
16:16
My dog's dog name.
16:17
Right.
16:18
That's right.
16:19
Spurgeon had a great quote on the on the on the first verse and he says, he talks about
16:24
your very great reward.
16:26
And Spurgeon's quote says, if God be our reward, let us take care that we do really enjoy him.
16:31
Let us exalt in him.
16:33
Let us not be pining after any other joy.
16:37
You know, do we just dwell in the joy of him and his presence in our life?
16:42
That is a true reward.
16:43
And I think it's pretty cool when we look at that quote and we look at this sacrifice
16:46
that's done here, you know, Abram falls into a deep sleep and God actually comes.
16:50
He sets the sacrifice on fire, you know, he's the one that burns the meat.
16:54
So he's actually in there in the presence with him as he's going through this doubtful
16:58
time.
16:59
And when I would hear some, but you know, a quote like that, especially before I gave
17:03
my life to Christ, I would, I would, I have no idea what that means, which quotes as well
17:08
in the joy of the Lord.
17:09
Yeah.
17:10
Like what the heck does that mean?
17:12
Right.
17:13
And now as I look back, it's still difficult for me to articulate, but I can say that I
17:17
know it's real.
17:19
I know when you're reading the word and you've seen it like flesh its way out in your life
17:22
and become real and true and grounded.
17:25
It's a real thing.
17:26
But I mean, how do you guys think about that?
17:28
Let's actually dig in there.
17:29
So what was it like for you guys?
17:31
So again, just trying to remember, so you grew up in church, but you became a Christian
17:35
around what age?
17:36
Oh, man, I would say again, you kind of, as an adult, I would say like in my 30s, I
17:41
really became more theologically.
17:43
You were single digits, right?
17:44
Yeah.
17:45
I was seven or eight years old.
17:46
Okay.
17:47
So I was 15, grew up not going to church, but country music, theology, then, you know,
17:50
hell, fire and brimstone sermon at, you know, on a Sunday night, that type of thing.
17:54
So I don't know that Zach, I ever had to reckon with that idea because some people will be
17:59
like, I think this came up in our discussion with Zach Foster because he, Zach Foster was
18:03
always a really nice guy that that was my foxhole, but our foxhole buddy that passed
18:07
away last year, unfortunately.
18:10
But he was always a nice guy, but then when he became a Christian, he wasn't just nice.
18:15
He wasn't just happy, but it was joy, like capital J.O.Y, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, it was
18:20
annoying.
18:21
It was really, really annoying.
18:22
How joyful he was.
18:23
So, but like, I never really had that moment where it was like, okay, when I was, you know,
18:28
on this day, like, you know, I didn't understand what dwelling in the house of the Lord was
18:32
or in that joy or whatever.
18:34
And then I became a Christian.
18:35
I understood it, but it was like, I don't know, like I struggle with that as well.
18:40
Like I don't know that I ever really got there.
18:41
So maybe elucidate that a little further.
18:44
I brought this up at his funeral when I was videoed for it.
18:47
Zach Foster specifically, who is one of my oldest friends, I can remember when I was going
18:52
down the path of faith that I was going to church and I invited him to go to a men's
18:56
event at one point and we were shooting pumpkins with guns and I just invited him to go and
19:01
he was not a Christian at this point.
19:03
So we're sitting in the parking lot waiting to caravan out to the land to do the shooting
19:06
and he's getting introduced to a bunch of guys.
19:09
And we get back in the truck and we're leaving and he just turns to me and he says, these
19:13
Christians, they're always so happy and smiling and we just laughed about it.
19:19
And just a few short years later, he would give his life to Christ and he would outsmile,
19:26
out happy and outjoy all of them genuinely.
19:28
And that's why over 800 people showed up to his funeral, people from our church and from
19:34
outside of the faith, it was just an incredible testimony.
19:37
So I'm so glad you brought that up because that is the example of what joy looks like,
19:44
ultimately, and how real it is because everybody that knew him knew that something was different.
19:49
Well, and to reiterate something that I believe I said it, I don't know if it was a forging
19:52
table or just on the episode where I talked about him passing away, because I was gone.
19:57
I had some pre-planned travel, so I couldn't be at the funeral, which was very disappointing.
20:00
But I was checking in with everybody that morning, like, hey, it's the place full, how
20:05
did the service go?
20:06
And I watched it on YouTube, but then I had to be taken down because some music was in
20:09
the background.
20:10
Apparently YouTube didn't like that.
20:11
Anyway, I got it.
20:12
Yeah.
20:13
Is it back up?
20:14
Okay.
20:15
I text several different people that at most had tangential connections to one another.
20:21
So maybe a couple of these guys trying to get to together or they come to Fight Club or
20:25
they're in our Sunday school or whatever, but to a man, they all said something along
20:30
the lines of the service was brutal, but it was beautiful at the same time.
20:35
The gospel was proclaimed, but it was so challenging to me personally.
20:42
They all said that.
20:43
Then I obviously followed up like, what do you mean by that?
20:46
But they're just like, it was story after story, after story of the same stuff that
20:50
I had experienced with Zach, where it's like, oh, he pauses entire life to do you a favor,
20:57
not because it was going to serve him and not because there were cameras following him
20:59
around, but because it was just who we was, the overwhelming joy that he showed.
21:05
And it was not just joy in the sake of being joyful or joy in the world.
21:09
It was joy in the Lord that was just overflowing.
21:12
And so that becomes a challenge to ever, well, I'll speak for me, that became a challenge
21:16
for me.
21:17
Like if somebody were to look at me, what would be one of the words they would use to describe
21:21
my faith?
21:22
They would probably intense, you know, like direct, like aggressive joy would, would they
21:29
say that?
21:30
And I've been in counseling.
21:31
Howard, I think last week you talked about doing some counseling again where we're super
21:33
pro counseling here guys, if you're out there and you need some help fricking get you some
21:36
help from people that actually have their Bible open whenever they're talking to you.
21:40
But like I had a guy.
21:41
It's like, Hey, what brings you joy?
21:42
And I looked at him like he was an insect.
21:43
I was like, what are you talking about joy?
21:45
You mean super duper happy?
21:47
And he'd never been challenged before.
21:48
So it was kind of a funny interaction for me, maybe not so much for him.
21:51
But I was like, I didn't understand the question because joy is just not one of those things
21:55
that kind of runs through my life.
21:57
And so when you see someone like Zach or when you read something in scripture where it's
22:01
talking about having joined the Lord, it's like, okay, there's still a quest here.
22:05
There's still some, you know, I'm being still being reconciled to the Lord here because this
22:08
is still a process for me.
22:10
And it's it's different things for different people, but I'll share one thing around the
22:14
time that that had occurred, I was speaking with his wife and they were trying to talk
22:19
about what did Zach enjoy doing?
22:22
And she said, well, he goes to work.
22:24
He comes home and spends all of his time with this community.
22:27
It's Bible study or it's, it's reading his Bible at home or it's going to a Bible study
22:31
or it's working at the church.
22:33
In his office, he had all of this stuff around.
22:35
So for you or for me, it may not be exactly the same thing.
22:38
But I know my Bible says that there's evidence that the spirit is working through you.
22:42
If you have a hunger for the word, which I can say was definitely a big factor for me.
22:47
And somehow all that feeds back into joy.
22:48
Well, and I think so many times we don't separate happiness from joy.
22:53
And so we're searching for that happy feeling or whatever.
22:56
And so they don't necessarily associate that with joy, you know, and, and when you come
23:00
to, to have more joy when our hearts are in line with what God's heart is.
23:06
And I think that's the piece.
23:07
I don't know, you know, when you're in the valley, you may not be, you know, thinking
23:12
about that joy.
23:13
But it's when you, when you've reached that mountain top that you're like, okay, I can,
23:16
I can have joy in what I went through.
23:19
And I think, you know, I, I'm challenged for this in my own life, but do we reflect enough?
23:24
You know, you put a challenge out to everybody on the podcast of, you know, what's your 20
23:28
or one year?
23:29
What do you, one thing you're thankful for for every year of your life?
23:32
Gratitude list.
23:33
And we were coming back from Florida over Christmas break and I'm like, oh, this will
23:39
be a good 15 minute exercise for the kids to do to burn up time.
23:42
Well, for 45 minutes to an hour, the kids, I said, okay, you guys all need to come up
23:47
with one thing for every year of your life for an hour in the car.
23:50
We're just talking about what are we thankful for?
23:52
What are we joyful for?
23:53
And, you know, those things, it brings us back to him.
23:56
And I don't think we spend enough time thinking about those things and reflecting on him on
23:59
a regular basis.
24:00
I want these to be a part of our cadence.
24:02
I think you're absolutely right.
24:04
Because again, Joby is the one that I got the idea from where he's like, yeah, I just
24:08
have a note on my phone for every year that I've been live.
24:09
I have at least one thing that I'm thankful for.
24:12
And so it's a revelatory exercise for people because some people can just burn that list
24:17
through and get there and then they go way beyond it because you don't have to stop
24:20
it.
24:21
Whatever year you are, you can just keep going.
24:22
But some people, they realize, oh, shoot, I'm having to think really, really hard because
24:27
one thing when I tell people is like, not everything on the list is equally weighted.
24:31
So on the list, I have my salvation and I also have my truck, okay?
24:36
Both things are awesome, right?
24:38
One is eternally awesome and one is like temporally awesome, right?
24:42
But I don't think that we, especially men, because men are naturally, I will say this
24:46
for a lot of men, we're naturally conquerors, like we want the next thing.
24:52
And so I feel like we have this thing where we have men that are just navel gazing like,
24:55
oh, I'm a victim and all that kind of stupid bull crap.
24:57
And then we have the other side, which is like, no, I'm just going, I got to take the
25:00
next hill.
25:01
And you know, I've talked about it on the show, like I'll do an interview, like what
25:04
first time I had Vodie Bock, I'm on the show, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like four years
25:07
of work trying to find the right time and the right people to make this connection and
25:10
it happened.
25:11
And as soon as I stopped the recording, the feeling of excitement was gone because I needed
25:15
to edit it.
25:16
I needed to get it posted.
25:17
I needed to get ready for the next interview.
25:18
I needed to get ready for the next this and that and the other thing.
25:20
And so I didn't take the time to stop and think to myself, I am thankful for this, but
25:24
it does put us in the right mindset when we're thinking to ourselves, okay, yeah, thankful
25:28
for my salvation and my spouse and my kid and all these different things.
25:31
But then when you have those little things, like I put things that are probably little,
25:35
like I like cigar nights on the back porch, which all of you guys have attended recently.
25:40
That is so much fun.
25:41
And I mega look forward to that because of the conversations, because of the great taste
25:45
of the cigars, because of the things that happened all the laughter.
25:49
But most guys, we just don't have that spirit of gratitude, which does come downstream from
25:52
joy.
25:53
Yeah, one thing I've been grappling a lot with recently is I remember Mark Hitchcock,
25:58
our pastor, it was a couple of months ago, he said something to the effect of, sometimes
26:02
I feel sorry for probably not the words he used, but something similar.
26:06
Younger people in their walk because they don't have the benefit of a long period of
26:11
time to reflect on when God has showed up in their lives and how, which creates a sense
26:16
of joy and faith.
26:17
And so thinking through that and circumstances, I've been going through recently, it's like,
26:21
how can I apply his perspective 20 years in advance today?
26:27
So how can I start to think through what God's done for me so that in my current circumstances,
26:31
I can truly rest in his provision?
26:34
Because there's a point where it's like, I've literally read my Bible and said, God,
26:38
if this is true, it'd be amazing if I wasn't worried or anxious right now and I could truly
26:42
just have peace and rest in you and know that it's okay.
26:45
Hey, would you give me the faith to do that right now and not have this turned out where
26:50
I'm going to be a fool, like I know I need to be diligent, I can't just sit here, I'm
26:54
not smart enough to figure this out, help me.
26:56
And interestingly, that seems to be effective and just the sense in having peace with certain
27:03
circumstances.
27:04
So as I come back to this whole kind of initial joy comment, all I can say is if you're in
27:09
the word and surrounded by people, I think you will reorient yourself to what God thinks
27:14
is important.
27:15
And all of a sudden, you do have that joy where you didn't have it before.
27:18
Orientation is probably the best word.
27:20
As you were saying that, I was thinking about Ryan, again, you're around people that are
27:25
in the word themselves.
27:27
And why do I encourage guys every year to make sure they get into masculine male community
27:31
where they're actually doing Bible study is because there have been times where I can't
27:35
remember the context, I'm going to be using a generic example, but Ryan, you and I will
27:38
be talking about something and you'll challenge me without sticking your finger in my chest
27:44
and you'll just be like, hey, man, have you prayed about that at all?
27:47
Or, you know, hey, if you, you know, we're studying this part of the Bible right now
27:50
for forging table, are you, are you thinking about that whenever you're kind of dealing
27:53
with this?
27:54
And I don't think you're playing like four D chess with me or anything like that.
27:57
But it's just like, I'm not that smart.
27:59
We're not manipulating each other, but it's just kind of like, hey, we know the score
28:03
here, right?
28:04
And it's just like you're, you're struggling right now.
28:06
It's like, are you holding on to the right things right now?
28:09
Are you holding on?
28:10
And this is a real problem for me.
28:11
Are you holding on to your own grit?
28:13
Are you holding on to your own built up resilience reserves?
28:16
Is that, is that what you're leaning on right now?
28:18
Or are you leaning on God?
28:19
Well, that's where I have to practice what I preach, you know, going through a season
28:21
of my life where like, I, and, you know, 20 or 30 years I've been alive, never dealt
28:28
with ever, you know what I'm saying?
28:29
Like, my biggest fear finally came to life, you know, and it's just like, we always heard
28:33
like, you know, past remark and, you know, any truth you go to, you always talks about
28:37
strife and hard times and like, sometimes those are going to hit and I'm like, man,
28:41
20 years, you know, 12 years I've been married, 20 years I've been alive, haven't had that,
28:45
you know, and finally it hits and it's just like, how do I, do I do it with my own grit?
28:50
Or do I, do I trust and rest and what God's plan is?
28:54
And I think it's, it's 99% of trusting and resting and 1% of your own grit.
29:01
Like I have to get off my butt and I've got to go do certain things.
29:04
But I also got to trust and rest that God's plan is better than the plan that I have in
29:07
my head or the worry that I have in my head.
29:10
And like, like last episode I talked about like the anxiety of that and it's like, you're
29:13
going to run into that anxiety, but don't let it harden or bring down your faith, you
29:18
know, if anything, let it, let it make your faith bigger and find contentment.
29:23
I think like we're finding joy, let's find joy and contentment, let's be content with
29:27
what God has given us.
29:28
And I think that's one of the things I look back on my life where I'm just like, man,
29:31
I wanted the next best thing.
29:32
I wanted to conquer.
29:33
Why wasn't I just content in that season, you know, and lived in that contentment?
29:38
And like one specific thing on that area that I've kind of struggled with and where
29:42
I'm at today is, you know, I'm sure there's lots of people who think I need to be content,
29:46
but that does not mean do nothing.
29:48
Paul was making tents.
29:49
You got to be diligent.
29:50
Oh, of course.
29:51
And God has given you this day.
29:52
So if you're trying to figure out what to do, at least focus on what you have in front
29:56
of you for the day and move forward.
29:59
Be appreciative of what you have in front of you.
30:01
Yeah.
30:02
And that's one thing that I had to look at when I talked about contentment.
30:03
It's like, I wanted the next best thing.
30:06
I wanted to keep going to the next best thing and I didn't look at what God had provided
30:09
in front of me and what's content with that.
30:11
I want to get it found.
30:12
Join it.
30:13
Yeah.
30:14
Joey says, pray.
30:15
Go.
30:16
Some people forget the go part where it's like, okay, pray.
30:18
Yes.
30:19
I'm, I'm, I guess this is what God's telling me to do and then they forget like, okay,
30:21
I can actually execute and do this.
30:23
Do this thing.
30:24
All right.
30:25
Let's go ahead and move on to Genesis 16.
30:26
So Howard, if you would read the first six verses of Genesis 16, this is where we're
30:31
going to get into a Sarah and Hagar, Genesis 16.
30:36
Okay, sorry, move it slow here.
30:42
And what version are you reading from again?
30:45
Um, NIV.
30:46
Okay.
30:47
Now Sarah, I, Abram's wife had bore him no children, but she had an Egyptian slave named
30:52
Hagar.
30:53
So she named, so she said to Abram, the Lord has kept me from having children.
30:57
Go sleep with my slave.
31:00
Perhaps I can build a family through her.
31:03
Abram agreed to what Sarah said.
31:05
So after Abram had been living in Canaan 10 years, Sarah, his wife took her Egyptian slave,
31:10
Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
31:14
He slept with Hagar and she conceived.
31:17
When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress.
31:21
Then Sarah said to Abram, you are responsible for the wrong I'm suffering.
31:24
I put my slave in your arms and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me.
31:30
May the Lord judge between you and me.
31:33
Her slave is in your hands, Abram said.
31:35
Do with her or whatever you think is best.
31:37
Then Sarah mistreated Hagar.
31:39
So she fled from her.
31:41
The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a stream.
31:44
Just first six verses.
31:45
We'll get into the next piece there, Mr. oversell.
31:47
So but there, so there's a whole lot in these first six verses.
31:51
But let's just be real from the beginning there.
31:53
Abram probably at least initially was like, all right, this is awesome.
31:56
Right.
31:57
You had to think like he's probably like, all right, this, this is good.
31:59
This is good for me.
32:00
But at the time, like I say, that's somewhat tongue in cheek.
32:02
But like at this time, polygamy was very, very common, right?
32:06
But apparently it was customary that if a man were to take on a second wife, he, that
32:11
had to be the permission had to be granted by the first wife, right?
32:14
Like kind of like she was in control of that.
32:17
She had to be, you know, the primary person to give to give that.
32:20
But in the last week, I've gotten, I don't read my reviews, right?
32:25
I don't read my comments any of that type of thing.
32:26
But I do get an email every day that kind of lets me know where is on Donalife Man's
32:29
podcast and where's the daily blade on the charts and things like that.
32:32
But it also gives me a summary of all the reviews that we've gotten.
32:34
I've gotten two one star reviews on on Donalife Man's podcast this week and the headlines
32:40
were basically the same.
32:42
This guy is so disrespectful of women.
32:44
This guy is such a misogynist.
32:46
This guy is such all these bad things, which I wonder if they've seen the name of the show
32:49
on Donalife.
32:50
A man's podcast.
32:51
I just wonder if it's ever occurred to them that I'm not thinking about them because it's
32:55
probably a feminine men or women that are leaving these one star reviews.
32:58
Now we're going to go ahead and just lean into that misogyny right now because isn't
33:02
it so typical of a woman that it was her freaking idea to do this and then she's the
33:07
one that gets mad on the back end whenever the outcome's not what she wanted.
33:11
Let's go ahead and lean in one star reviewers.
33:13
This is the Garden of Eden all over again.
33:16
This is what it is.
33:17
Woman comes up with a bad idea.
33:19
The guy advocates his responsibility, goes along with the bad idea and this time it's
33:24
through the sexual immorality and this is a consequence of sexual immorality.
33:28
I think it was a ask a pastor with Joby one time where somebody asked like, "Hey, if marriage
33:33
is between one man and one woman, why is there polygamy in the Bible?"
33:37
And Joby pointed out, "Well, yeah, it happened.
33:39
David was still God's chosen one, but look at the consequences to his sexual immorality.
33:45
He had consequences."
33:46
Yeah, description is not a prescription.
33:47
Yeah, and so it's just like here's the consequences.
33:50
He abdicated his responsibility twice and the way that he said, "Yeah, I'm going to go
33:55
ahead and do this.
33:56
Why?"
33:57
And there, we could go into what makes those other people mad and maybe he just want to
34:02
have sex with another woman.
34:03
Certainly possible.
34:04
Who knows?
34:06
But he abdicated his responsibility and saying, "Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and do it."
34:09
And then when there was strife between the two women, he abdicated his responsibility
34:14
again and told his wife to take care of it.
34:16
Yeah.
34:17
And look what happened there.
34:18
You got two cats fighting over one guy, you know?
34:20
Maybe he wanted that.
34:21
Yeah.
34:22
We all want to feel wanted.
34:23
No, no.
34:24
I just think he just want to deal with it.
34:26
He's like, "I got more things on my plate."
34:28
So it seems like you framed it from her sort of being quote unquote "at fault," but then
34:33
you brought it all the way back to...
34:35
Just like he's accountable as the spiritual leader.
34:37
Just like Adam and Eve, you know?
34:39
So with Eve's at fault because she's like she listened to the snake, ate the apple, and
34:44
then she came over and gave it to her husband who partook in it rather than saying, "Hey,
34:48
don't eat that."
34:49
Or, you know, like he could be earshot listening to the snake too and be like, "Hey, don't
34:54
listen to that guy."
34:55
Yeah.
34:56
Everyone would know what it tastes like, you know?
34:57
Like, "I want to know what this feels like."
34:59
And so, you know, and that's where probably Abraham was like, "Yeah, I want to know what
35:02
it's going to be like to be with Hagar."
35:03
You know?
35:04
And then she could also give me what I want and what I want is an heir.
35:07
You know?
35:08
And this is like this...
35:09
God has already promised him a son, but he wants in his own timing.
35:14
You know?
35:15
And he doesn't want to wait and be patient.
35:16
God has been patient with him through all of this, but he loses patience since against
35:22
what God would call marriage and has an heir out of sexual morality.
35:27
And look at...
35:28
We'll talk about this with...
35:30
In this chapter, we'll talk about it in later chapters about how sexual immorality just
35:34
leads to more strife against Israel.
35:37
Like they can set themselves up by not listening and trusting in God.
35:41
I think that it's also here.
35:43
Why...
35:44
This is a genuine question.
35:46
Why do we...
35:47
I'll say we, I don't know how wide I want the we to be.
35:51
Let's just say men.
35:52
Why do we feel like we need to help God?
35:56
Because in this exact scenario, they're like, "All right.
36:00
God gave us His promise.
36:01
He's reminded us of this promise.
36:02
He's constantly brought us along here and all that's good to go."
36:05
But then in their own finite wisdom, they think to themselves, "All right, God, we're
36:10
going to do you a solid here, right?
36:12
We're going to help you..."
36:13
You need help, God.
36:14
Yeah.
36:15
You create everything and all that cosmos, all that.
36:17
Yeah.
36:18
We set up altars and sacrifice animals to you and all that.
36:20
That's all great.
36:21
But you clearly are not really getting with the program here.
36:24
And so my timeline and my wisdom says this needs to be done now-ish.
36:28
And so what's my idea?
36:29
Oh, I got an Egyptian slave girl that we can just have my husband have sex with him, then
36:33
we get the air, and then we solve all these problems where the air is going to be an actual
36:38
person and it's actually going to be from our bloodline, but not exactly my bloodline.
36:42
Why do we constantly default to that?
36:44
And it can't just be, "Oh, it's sin nature," which is the answer, but it's got to be deeper
36:51
than that for all of us.
36:52
Like, why do we feel the need to help God out?
36:54
I think it comes back to, like, we have more confidence in ourselves than we do in him and
37:00
in his promises.
37:01
You know, one of the things I wrote down here, the commentary was "ishmail equals flesh"
37:05
and "isake equals promises."
37:07
You know, and Sarah was being so influenced by the culture of her time, right, and her
37:14
eye was on that, not on God's promise.
37:16
And so I think so many times that we take our eyes off of that again.
37:20
And then we need, "Oh, we need control.
37:22
It's not happening as quick as I want it to, and it's not the way I picture God's promise
37:28
coming to me."
37:29
So I need to manufacture or make it what I think it's going to be.
37:34
We don't submit that over to him, and I think that's what we see with her.
37:37
Well, and there's another distinction here is, I mean, I have never once in my life audibly
37:44
heard God tell me exactly what's going to happen, and that happened here, right?
37:48
So that's kind of what you talked about before.
37:50
I mean, if that, you would want to think if that's what happened that you're like, "Okay,
37:53
we're just going to hang back."
37:54
But the reality is in our life, we don't have that extremely clear direction.
37:59
So I think it creates a lot of potential for you to say, "Look, I've just got to take
38:02
this into my own hands and figure things out."
38:04
Well, I think that's where it comes back to Abraham's responsibility and the fact that
38:09
God was telling him there was going to be air.
38:11
He never told Sarai that there was ever going to be an air, just him.
38:16
And so when it comes down to it, when she makes this offer, he should have been like,
38:20
"No.
38:21
God's made a promise.
38:22
I'm going to hold to that faith because he's shown his faith in the past, but he chooses
38:25
not to because he wants that air.
38:28
And what he wants is on his heart more than what God's got to do.
38:31
So what would you say, if it's against God's will, just think about your actual life right
38:36
now, it's probably coming with some sense of, "This is not quite right," or, "The circumstances
38:41
aren't quite there," or, "Everybody in my life that's godly doesn't seem to agree
38:45
with it."
38:46
You know what I'm saying?
38:47
Like, how do you start to discern that in your life?
38:50
Like God's will?
38:51
Or...
38:52
Well, like in this circumstance, if this was modern day.
38:54
So if it's modern day, I'm Abraham.
38:56
God has told me multiple times that I'm going to have an air.
38:59
But assume for a second that you're not getting direct feedback from God.
39:03
Oh, okay.
39:04
So I'm not, yeah.
39:05
I mean, yeah.
39:06
Something seems a little off.
39:07
But yeah.
39:08
That's where prayer life comes in.
39:09
Yeah.
39:10
That's where reading the word, learning from like the thing that when we read this Bible,
39:13
we don't read the Bible as subjectively, we read it objectively.
39:16
So I'm not going to put myself in Abraham's place.
39:20
What I'm going to do is I'm going to read what Abraham did and see how that turned out.
39:25
You know?
39:26
And then try to do my best to make the right decisions based upon what the word of God
39:32
says.
39:33
That's all I got.
39:34
Howard.
39:35
Again, I think it's just, if you look at Sarah, her eye was not focused on the promise.
39:47
And how many times are we not focused on his promises?
39:51
Yeah.
39:52
I think to myself sometimes too, like I'm trying to find a good book right now that
39:56
just talks about the promises of God.
39:59
You know, what am I continuing to take in and whether it's a decision you're trying
40:04
to make?
40:05
I think it's if we continue to take it to him, if we God puts those men around us.
40:09
I'm sure Kyle has a group of guys that he goes to when he's thinking about making a
40:13
decision with the forging table or these things, you know, the same thing for me at my work.
40:18
I'm surrounded by a good group of men and I bring those decisions to them.
40:22
And I think it's important we bring it to our wife as well on a lot of these things.
40:26
And I wonder here, you know, did Abraham and Sarah, I have conversations about this or was
40:32
it like in Abraham's mind, oh, we're good, or did he bring her back to, nope, this is
40:37
the promise.
40:38
I think you said that, but are we continuing to be that vocal voice in front of our wives
40:43
or children?
40:44
So you're talking about communication in marriage, communication.
40:48
So maybe it's an expert.
40:50
Maybe a principle is if it feels like you're acting in desperation or you're rushing things
40:54
along, you may want to take a second because that's what's happening and what's going
40:58
on in your heart.
40:59
It's not just what God said he would provide, which is an air and, you know, lots of people,
41:06
right?
41:07
Like he would be a father to many people.
41:09
It's what is God needing to show him and teach him along the way, right?
41:13
Because it's not just the end act of getting the air, right?
41:18
It's the things that you're being forced to be patient and learn along the way.
41:22
That's part of this as well.
41:24
Go ahead, right.
41:25
I just think the other thing that we need to look at is how God's design for marriage
41:27
is perfect.
41:29
And when we go outside of that design, this is what happens.
41:33
Because when we read Matthew 19, it says, "Leave your mother and father and become one flesh."
41:39
You know, he and Sariah are one flesh, but then they brought in another piece of flesh
41:44
and that flesh isn't one flesh of them.
41:46
Now it's like it's, I would almost say like a virus or whatever you want to call it, you
41:51
know, and it's just causing division.
41:53
And so that's why God's design is perfect.
41:55
And that's why we, that's why when it comes to marriage, that's why we stick to what God's
41:58
design is.
41:59
One, typically when sins like this happen, there are so many downstream consequences.
42:06
And we see that here as the narrative continues.
42:09
So Zach, if you would go ahead and read starting in, so we're Genesis 16 starting in verse
42:14
7, and just go ahead and finish out the chapter.
42:18
The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on
42:23
the way to sure, and he said, "Hagar, servant of Sariah, where have you come from and where
42:29
are you going?"
42:30
She said, "I am fleeing from my mistress, Sariah."
42:33
The angel of the Lord said to her, "Return to your mistress and submit to her."
42:38
The angel of the Lord also said to her, "I will surely multiply your offspring so that
42:43
they cannot be numbered for multitude."
42:46
And the angel of the Lord said to her, "Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son.
42:50
You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has listened to your affliction.
42:55
He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against
43:01
him.
43:02
And he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."
43:06
So she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, "You are a God of seeing."
43:10
For she said, "Truly, here I have seen him who looks after me.
43:14
Therefore, the well was called Beer-Lahai-Roy, it lies between Kadesh and Beredd, and Hagar
43:21
bore Abram a son, and Abram called the name of his son whom Hagar bore Ishmael.
43:27
Abram was 86 years old when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram."
43:31
So we see here a description of not in the angel of the Lord, but the angel of the Lord.
43:35
So this is what a lot of people think.
43:37
This is Jesus talking to Hagar.
43:40
This is a Christophany.
43:41
This is an appearance of the pre-incarnate Christ.
43:44
And there's the realistic thing here that apparently this wilderness area was incredibly
43:49
rough.
43:50
Hagar was not going to likely survive.
43:52
She likely did not have the skill to survive.
43:54
There's so many things that we can talk about here, but the thing that I find most interesting
43:58
is that technically in this scripture, we see several hundred years before Muhammad,
44:03
the beginning of Islam, because Muslims believe that it was Ishmael, not Isaac, and we haven't
44:10
gone there yet.
44:11
That was the test of faith, right?
44:13
And that was a sacrifice.
44:14
So this is Surah.
44:15
So the Quran's broken up into 114, I believe Surah's.
44:19
Those are their chapters.
44:20
So it's Surah 37 verses 102 through 107, and they believe that Ishmael was willing to
44:25
be sacrificed, that Ishmael was a willing participant, and it literally goes back to
44:30
this point because we know that it was Isaac that was taken up, that was going to be sacrificed,
44:37
but they believed it was Ishmael.
44:38
And so if we go back to those downstream consequences, right?
44:42
So this wasn't just, I happen to have a slave girl that you can sleep with, and hopefully
44:47
you can impregnate her.
44:50
Look at where we're at now in modernity, right?
44:52
We have that we, and you could look at the Crusades again, Raymond Ibrahim's book about
44:57
the defenders of the West and different things like that.
44:59
This is something that has been going on in this militants and bloodshed between these
45:04
two worldviews.
45:06
That's where the world's going, right?
45:07
This is not like, okay, we're just going to get rid of Isis and Al Qaeda and all that,
45:10
and like, this will just take care of itself.
45:12
No, this is a enduring legacy of these words, and it goes all the way back to Abram.
45:20
Pre Abraham just being like, bro, just hold on, man.
45:24
I got you.
45:25
I got you.
45:26
Don't do anything different.
45:27
So it wasn't just sex.
45:29
It wasn't just getting so impregnate.
45:30
That was not your primary spouse, man, if we have downstream consequences that are still
45:35
working themselves out today.
45:38
Sexual immorality, downstream consequences, and you bring up a good point because it says,
45:45
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.
45:49
So I mean, if you look at the, if you look at the believers of Islam and the believers
45:54
of Christianity and Judaism, I mean, Jews and Muslims are kinsmen.
46:01
I mean, they both come from Abraham, you know, once from Mishma's side and once from
46:04
Isaac's side.
46:06
And so, and that's where you just kind of look at God kept his promise to Abraham because
46:11
he told him.
46:12
He goes, he goes, your, your descendants will be more than the stars, you know, or you can't
46:17
count the stars.
46:18
You won't be able to count your descendants.
46:19
And so the angel coming over to Hagar and telling her that, hey, you're, you're going
46:24
to the divine responses.
46:26
You shall call Mishma or be where was it?
46:30
So I surely, I will surely multiply your offspring so that they cannot be numbered for multitude.
46:35
Like he's keeping to God's covenant with Abraham and then Abraham kind of screwed that up in
46:40
the fact that he did it with somebody who was not Sarah, you know, and that's, that's
46:45
what God wanted.
46:46
And so now it adds more indemnity on his line.
46:50
I just think about, can you imagine, you know, Sarah is seeing the consequences of her choice
46:57
for the next, for the rest of her life, right, with Hagar being a part of their, you know,
47:03
their tribe and living, she's like, Oh, I got rid of you.
47:06
Like, I made a bad decision and that's gone.
47:08
And I think at the front side, so many of us as Christians and, and, you know, our society,
47:14
we don't think about the down screen, downstream consequences of our decision.
47:18
And it's like, how many people in the Bible, can you look at the story of, of the consequences?
47:23
And do we just were so shortsighted when sometimes when we make decisions and we don't think
47:28
about that, but to think, you know, what Sarah went through and what Abraham went through,
47:32
like, gosh, I mean, living, living with, uh, living with your choices every day to see
47:38
that.
47:39
Having a newborn in your 90s.
47:40
Yeah.
47:41
Yeah.
47:42
Yeah, sign me up.
47:43
No, thank you.
47:44
But I mean, again, the sexual, the consequences of sexual sin are severe.
47:50
And so this is another one of those things whenever you get these church camp answers
47:53
from people, like, wait, aren't all sins are the exact same?
47:56
They're the exact same.
47:57
It's like in the sense that it's your sin that separates you from God.
48:00
Yes.
48:01
You can use that macro category.
48:02
But then when we start breaking down the individual sins, telling your wife that she
48:05
looks good in the dress, when you actually don't believe that, that is not the same thing
48:08
as what we see Abram doing here with, with Hagar.
48:12
And also there's the sin, there's a sin of commission and the sin of omission here.
48:16
And as we've kind of pointed out, he abdicated his responsibility here.
48:20
So that is a sin of omission.
48:22
He did not do the thing that he was supposed to do.
48:25
And so because again, we're very worried about the co-mission sins, right?
48:28
Or whatever we think are co-mission sins.
48:29
And so it's like, you know, getting drunk or, you know, having sex out of wedlock and
48:33
all those different things.
48:34
And that's not to be dismissive of those, but there is plenty of sin to go on whenever
48:38
you knowingly are doing something that is against the will of God.
48:41
This all, I mean, there's a lot of things here.
48:44
One would be, I just think it's kind of funny in a modern reading that basically the Lord
48:47
tells her that you're going to have a wild donkey of a man and his hand is against everyone.
48:50
The literal translation is wild ass man.
48:53
Yeah.
48:54
Like that is the literal translation.
48:55
It's like, that came from one of these super conservative commentaries.
48:58
And I was like, I just started busting out laughing.
49:00
And then like right after that, she's like, thank you so much.
49:02
You know, I appreciate that.
49:04
I'm sure she just happened to be alive and all that, but, but I think Christ literally
49:09
is saying, and I am going to multiply this man's seat.
49:13
So, so he is very much involved in whatever the downstream consequences are.
49:17
And you can wrap your head around that.
49:19
And the last thing I would just say is, it's funny when you start reading a lot of the
49:23
Gospels, you know, what you recognize and like what Joby talks about is Christ typically
49:28
comes at you with a question.
49:30
And a lot of the times it seems like when an angel shows up, there's a statement, fear
49:34
not.
49:35
I'm from the Lord.
49:36
I'm going to tell you something that's going on.
49:37
We'll look right here.
49:38
We'll talk about a Christophany.
49:40
I mean, what is, what does he say?
49:42
He gets there and he says, Agar, Servant of Sarai, where have you come from and where
49:47
are you going?
49:48
Yep.
49:49
He reminds me of the Gospels.
49:50
That's what makes me feel like this is Christ.
49:52
That's it.
49:53
You know, I mean, that's something that's always kind of been said, you know, is that
49:56
in the Old Testament, the angel, the angel coming is usually Christ, you know, that's
50:00
all the fourth and the fire, you know, a shadow, me shacking of men to go.
50:03
So definitely, I would agree with you on that 100%.
50:07
All right, guys, anything else on Genesis 15 to 16, before we wrap?
50:11
Boom.
50:12
Boom.
50:13
I'm good.
50:14
Boom.
50:15
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50:17
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50:19
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