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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 13 & 14 (Ep. 727)

March 9, 2025 57m 09s Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | Genesis 13 & 14 (Ep. 727)
0:00 / 57m 09s
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive deep into Genesis 13 and 14, exploring the themes of faith, resilience, and the importance of being prepared for battle. Abram's actions in rescuing Lot highlight the necessity of being ready to protect those we care about, even when relationships are strained.
Transcript
1218 segments
0:00 "This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:24 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it."
0:26 Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:28 "The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
0:31 forges, spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
0:34 At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
0:37 by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
0:39 with us.
0:40 That's Zach, that's Ryan, that's Howard, but guys, does anyone know what the word "manch"
0:44 means?
0:45 I mean, I think that's kind of like a Yiddish thing or like a Jewish thing.
0:48 It's like a Minch?
0:49 Minch?
0:50 Well, if you go to the Googles, a Minch is a person of integrity and honor, and that's
0:55 spelled M-E-N-S-C-H, by the way, and the third definition is a decent responsible person
1:01 with admirable characteristics, and I just got to say right now, there is a Minch at this
1:05 table right now, and it's the guy right across from me, and that is Howard Wickersham, and
1:08 that is because we've had some weird stuff go down with Forging Tables, a lot of stuff
1:12 that we don't really talk about on camera, but the guy that was supposed to be sitting
1:16 in that seat, this is my story to tell, but father-in-law, major, major medical issues,
1:21 he had to hop on an airplane, and of course he's a dutiful guy, and so he told me, "Hey,
1:25 48 hours ago, hey man, we're hopping on a plane, father-in-law, he flat-lined a couple
1:30 of times overnight, we got to go."
1:31 So it's like, of all the things for him to be worrying about, I didn't give two craps
1:36 about what was happening at the Forging Table, but in that moment, it's like, okay, we're
1:39 either going to rock with the three of us, which would have been fine, or we're going
1:42 to have to find a fourth, and my first phone call was Howard, and you were like, okay,
1:47 I got it, and let me talk to the wife, and then here you are less than 48 hours later,
1:51 it's more like 31 1/2 hours or something like that, and here you are sitting here so Howard,
1:55 we appreciate you very much, man, thanks for hopping in, and, and, and, he didn't just
1:59 hop in, and he's just going to like kind of flow with us, you studied, like you, you
2:03 studied, and you woke up, what, you said you woke up earlier this morning, and knocked
2:07 out the last few chapters, so yeah, so very, very thankful for you, but we do need to address
2:12 the elephant in the room, and we need to talk about the fact that Ryan, that might be the
2:16 greatest shirt in the history of the Forging Table, is it, well is that a shirt or is that
2:21 a shacket?
2:22 It's a shacket.
2:23 Okay, for those of you that aren't aware, like that is a shirt jacket.
2:25 Well yeah, yeah, see the inside, show the camera, show the people at home, look at that.
2:29 Now, you might get a little sweaty, because you get a little worked up, especially if
2:32 we start talking about things that are controversial.
2:35 We didn't have to do it all awkward like that, but like, where does the movie reference
2:38 from?
2:39 So, here's the thing about a shirt like that though, that is either something that you
2:42 got at like a super bougie Western store or a gas station, and I'm not sure which, but
2:48 either way, I think it's awesome.
2:49 Do we know where the shirt came from?
2:51 We founded on Facebook with a company called Cerammo, like S-E-R-R-M-O.
2:56 Wait, spell out one more time?
2:57 S-E-R-R-M-O.
2:58 All right, this is not an advertisement, so if they're like a weird company that like
3:03 helps kids, you know, chop off their healthy breast tissue, like we are not giving them,
3:07 "Oh, I've seen these ads."
3:08 Yeah.
3:09 Yeah.
3:10 It's flannel season, according to their website.
3:11 Yeah.
3:12 I don't know, this is happening later, so for some of you, this is going to be in the spring.
3:15 Yeah.
3:16 These are nice.
3:17 I bought this jacket, jacket, three years ago, and what I'm finally still enough to wear.
3:22 Oh, as well as I'll say, I haven't seen them wear it.
3:24 Yeah, you've lost all that weight, so you can fit it up.
3:25 Yeah.
3:26 So you finally started listening to me, huh?
3:27 Sorry.
3:28 Well, I've gone on paleo.
3:29 Okay.
3:30 How's that going?
3:31 It's going really well.
3:32 I'm down from 260 to 235 to a good boom.
3:35 Oh, for you, man.
3:36 So for you.
3:37 So for 34, maybe.
3:38 But that's like going in for boxer weight, so like just towel on.
3:41 So what you're saying is, well, we don't need to confirm that.
3:44 We definitely don't need to confirm that.
3:45 But what you're saying is, is that whole everyone in my presence has to be able to do at least
3:49 10 pull-ups, saying that that you might actually be able to pull that off in 2025.
3:53 I don't know about that.
3:55 I mean, I'm trying to drop the weights so I can pull myself up.
3:58 Yeah.
3:59 But yeah, I mean, I'm going to work towards it.
4:02 Okay.
4:03 Tim, I mean, because we're putting this in January, yeah, the year.
4:05 This is January, but really, my goal is to open that bottle of Pappy.
4:09 You're standing.
4:10 All right.
4:11 But now you got to tell everybody, nobody knows what you're talking about.
4:12 Okay.
4:13 So you have a bottle of Pappy, 15-year-olds sitting on your shelf.
4:15 Wait.
4:16 Have you haven't switched?
4:17 Okay.
4:18 Don't worry about that part.
4:19 Yeah.
4:20 Do your.
4:21 Yeah.
4:22 So I've got a bottle of Pappy, 15.
4:23 My wife got me a couple of years ago for Christmas.
4:24 And so I'm like, I need to find a special occasion to open it.
4:27 Well, my goal is not my goal, my standard is how do you like that?
4:33 How do you like somebody who listens to the show?
4:36 My standard is to basically eat healthier.
4:41 So my wife and I have been on kind of a paleo kick for the last couple of months since like
4:45 November.
4:46 You know, we'll still dabble in certain things here and there just because we don't want
4:50 to lose, you know, life in general.
4:53 But like last night, I made a keto friendly or not a keto friendly, a paleo friendly like
4:58 teriyaki sauce with some chicken thighs with cauliflower rice and broccoli.
5:02 Like that was in the meal, you know?
5:04 And so we've been eating that way.
5:06 And so my goal is to get down to 200 pounds.
5:08 If I can get down to 200 pounds, that's 60 pounds from where I was at before, I'm going
5:13 to open that bottle of Pappy.
5:15 For those of you that don't know, Ryan Horne is a cook and he's always talking about foods
5:20 that I can't pronounce.
5:21 They've never heard of, but they're awesome.
5:23 Yeah.
5:24 You always put a glaze on stuff too.
5:25 I feel like every time I talk to you, it's like, it's not just me.
5:28 It's like, well, I've got this super duper balsamic glaze or what.
5:31 I don't know what you like.
5:32 What was the first thing where the glaze you put on that deer that you could help?
5:35 I did.
5:36 I did a blackberry like sauce on top of it.
5:39 So crushed blackberries with a stomach vinegar, a little bit of honey, some salt and just like
5:44 got it into a thick sauce and then stuck it on the back strap or the roast.
5:49 See, I'm like the exact opposite.
5:51 Since I eat this basically every day for lunch, like literally I will cut up the back strap
5:55 into strips.
5:56 I saw Joby actually do this when we were out at the retreat center out in Georgia.
5:59 And like, so what I will do is I will put like a bang load of tallow or butter in the
6:02 cast iron skillet.
6:03 And I, you know, kind of a hack if your wife gets on to you about the cast iron skillet
6:06 constantly making the kitchen dirty or whatever, I put my cast iron skillet inside of my smoker
6:11 inside.
6:12 Oh, I saw it dude in my grill.
6:13 Okay.
6:14 All that splatter and everything going on doesn't matter because it's, I mean, some
6:17 people are real anal about cleaning the inside of their smoker.
6:18 I don't really understand that at all, but I just put a bang load of tallow or butter
6:22 in there.
6:23 And then whenever you cut it up in slices, I'll throw in because I eat about a pound at
6:26 a time of that.
6:27 So I throw it in there and I just basically take tongs and I move it the entire time.
6:31 And so I may basically move in it for maybe about a minute.
6:34 And so I've got a nice like, you know, buttery char on the outside, but then the inside is
6:37 basically rare, medium rare.
6:38 And so it's some of the pieces come out a little bit Pittsburgh style.
6:41 So it's like charred on the outside and then, you know, it's kind of, it's rare on the
6:44 inside.
6:45 So yeah, God, I'm like starving all sudden this sucks.
6:48 Today's our cheat day.
6:49 So like I'm making like, uh, so we're doing stakes New York strip, I'll put them in the
6:53 SUV.
6:54 I'm going to hit them with that G seasoning.
6:56 You, uh, yeah, which by the way, I don't know if I talked about this on the show or not.
7:01 And again, this comes out a few months ago, but so again, I'm, I'm down, I'm hanging out
7:04 with, uh, anyway, I can't tell that part of the story, but anyway, I find out about
7:07 G seasoning and this is like a small family owned and operated, uh, thing where this is
7:14 like grandma's recipe kind of a situation and someone prepared me a steak with G seasoning.
7:19 That's G as in like, what is the letter?
7:22 Yeah.
7:23 Well, yeah.
7:24 G is in the letter.
7:25 I know what letters are.
7:26 I was trying to think of the military alphabet.
7:27 What is G?
7:28 Uh, all the people in the military are like, that's what it's going to be changed to.
7:34 So, uh, so anyway, uh, I take one bite of this steak.
7:37 If this guy prepared for me, I take one single bite and I was like, whoa, what, what did
7:42 you season this with?
7:43 Cause I season all my steak with the same three things.
7:45 It's coarse salt, black pepper, garlic powder and like, dude, that's, that's classic.
7:49 That's really all you need.
7:50 I don't really go, uh, go any different than that.
7:53 And it was so good.
7:54 And he's like, yeah, man, this is like my, my buddy's company and he's like, you know,
7:57 I already have a relationship with like a seasoning company.
7:59 So I can't really talk about it on my socials or things like that.
8:02 And so I just decide I'm going to mention it on the show, right?
8:04 And this was before Christmas, 2024.
8:07 So I just decide, okay, um, this is not an ad.
8:10 I tell everyone on the show, this is not an ad.
8:11 I did not get paid to do this, but I like to share things with you.
8:13 Cause I always get on, get on to guys for they find something awesome and then they don't
8:16 share it around.
8:17 Right.
8:18 So they, they just find like a new band or a new Jiu Jitsu move or like a new snack and
8:21 they're just, they just keep it to themselves.
8:23 And so I share it.
8:24 And then I just make this casual comment where I just say, wouldn't it be awesome if a hundred
8:30 guys in my audience bought, you know, bought one of these and like, that'd be kind of cool
8:34 for this family to get a nice little bump before the end of the year.
8:37 And I was like, yeah, you know, I bought a box of six of them and I gave them out some
8:39 people for Christmas.
8:40 And then I don't think anything about it.
8:42 And I get a random DM on Instagram, a day or two after the episode came out.
8:48 And it's this woman that builds websites and she goes, Hey, are you the podcast host that
8:52 mentioned G seasoning on your show?
8:54 And I was like, Oh, it's just some sort of fishing thing or whatever, but it looked like
8:57 a legit account.
8:58 So I'm like, yes.
8:59 And she's like, look, I built their website a long time ago.
9:02 It's not one of my better websites because this small family owned an operating thing.
9:05 They didn't, they couldn't spend a whole bunch of money on all this, you know, crazy marketing
9:08 stuff.
9:09 And so I just built it.
9:10 But she's like, I can still see their back end.
9:12 They have been flooded with orders over the last two days, absolutely and completely flooded.
9:18 Like, and I, and we're pretty sure it's because of your show.
9:20 And I was like, and in my head, I'm like, well, yeah, it's obviously because of that, but
9:24 I was like, apparently dudes took me seriously.
9:26 And then the, the owners of the company, they, they found my number and they reached out and
9:30 they were just super thankful because for them, and like that made me feel like amazing
9:34 because you know what it, you know how much effort it took for me to mention them on the
9:37 show?
9:38 Exactly.
9:39 None.
9:40 Right.
9:41 I just, I got it.
9:42 And I'm like, this is really good.
9:43 And I just wanted to be kind of like a little, you know, non paid ambassador for this thing
9:45 that I thought was awesome.
9:46 And to this day, there are people like tagging me, cause they had like a hundred followers
9:49 on Instagram, right?
9:50 And then like, then all of a sudden they just sell all the stuff and like anyway, it was,
9:55 it was a really, really cool.
9:56 So I'm looking forward to using it.
9:57 I'm putting it on the silver sous vide and the stakes, then I'm going to put on there,
10:01 reverse serum and the cast iron skillet, and I'm making scalloped potatoes with cheddar
10:05 grated.
10:06 Oh my gosh.
10:07 And then what time is this all happening?
10:09 And honey carrots.
10:10 Oh gosh.
10:11 Yeah.
10:12 So I should come by like a little bit beforehand.
10:14 If you need to come by beforehand, we need to take stakes over my wife during lunch because
10:20 I got a sous vide him.
10:21 He didn't do his job.
10:22 Dang.
10:23 Gosh.
10:24 Okay guys here, you know, it doesn't even matter now.
10:26 Okay.
10:27 We're rolling out.
10:28 We have to cover two chapters of Genesis today.
10:30 But how would he set up now?
10:31 Zach, Zach, you had one job.
10:33 So for those of you that don't know, this is, you know, this is a little bit of peak behind
10:36 the curtain thing.
10:37 This guy did actually apparently go to school.
10:39 This is a timer.
10:40 You see, and all you have to do to get this timer to start so we can kind of know where
10:43 we're at in this whole thing is just hit the top button.
10:46 I was like, Zach, you got this.
10:48 You're good to go.
10:49 And then here I am.
10:50 I'm looking down.
10:51 And what, what do we talk for?
10:52 We've talked for 10 and a half minutes and this thing hadn't been going.
10:54 I've got a timer, but it's for you guys, right?
10:57 Yeah, exactly.
10:58 But hey, we probably should get to work and I don't even, I did the batteries just go
11:01 out.
11:02 Zach, so team on is 10.
11:03 We're good.
11:04 Yeah, it's fine.
11:05 At this point, like here, let's see if it'll actually start going boom, boom, timer is
11:08 going.
11:09 But guys, we do actually need to get in today.
11:10 We're going to be covering Genesis 13 and Genesis 14.
11:13 And one of the good things about having Howard here is if there are any difficult names that
11:18 come up, just so this is for this is for Zach and for Ryan, if there's a difficult name
11:23 that comes up, just stop talking and then Howard will hop in.
11:27 Okay, so if you don't know how to say it, don't just me and meander your way through
11:30 it.
11:31 Just stop talking and Howard hops in.
11:32 Does that work?
11:33 How would we just make Howard read the whole time?
11:35 Well, no, I mean, that's rude.
11:36 I'm going to add some prep time, maybe, you know, no, no, you don't even need the prep
11:39 time.
11:40 You just got that big old brain over there.
11:41 But hey, let's start out.
11:42 We're going to keep the, the narrative of Abram going.
11:45 So we're in acts or sorry, acts.
11:47 We are in Genesis.
11:48 This is we're off the rail.
11:49 So they're all ready.
11:50 It's because we haven't had.
11:51 Look what you did.
11:52 Exactly.
11:53 The timer had been going.
11:54 I would not have made that mistake.
11:56 So Howard, how about we go ahead and start here?
11:58 I don't think there's any bad names on this part, but let's go Genesis 13.
12:01 Let's read the first 13 verses.
12:03 Okay.
12:04 So Abraham went up to Egypt from the give with his wife and everything and everything
12:08 he had and a lot went with him.
12:10 Abraham had become very wealthy and livestock and in silver and gold.
12:15 From the give, he went to the place from place to place until he came to Bethel to the place
12:20 between Bethel and A.I. where his tent had been earlier and where he had built his first
12:27 or built the altar, then they are Abraham called on the name of the Lord.
12:32 Now a lot who was moving about with Abram also had flocks, herds and tents, but the land
12:39 could not support them while they stayed together for their possessions were so great
12:44 that they were not able to stay together.
12:47 And corolling arose between Abraham's herdsmen and lots.
12:50 The Canaanites and the Persites were also living in the land at the time.
12:54 So Abraham said to a lot, "Let's not have any corolling between you and me or between
12:59 your herdsmen and mine, for we are close relatives.
13:03 Is not the whole land before you?
13:05 Let's part company.
13:07 If you go to the left, I'll go to the right.
13:09 If you go to the right, I'll go to the left."
13:12 Lot looked around and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan toward Zor was well watered
13:17 like the Garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt before this was before the Lord destroyed
13:24 Sodom and Gomorrah.
13:26 So Lot chose for himself the whole plain of the Jordan and set out towards the east.
13:30 The two-parted company, Abram lived in the land of Canaan while Lot lived among the cities
13:37 of the plain and pitched his tent near Sodom.
13:40 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.
13:44 Done, done, done, yeah, this dramatic, dramatic foreshadowing here.
13:48 But there's a few interesting notes before we get into this first part.
13:52 So in the first verse when it says, "So Abram went up from Egypt."
13:56 I didn't know this, but apparently from where he was going to where he needed to end up,
14:00 it was just going to be an uphill walk the entire time because apparently he was heading
14:05 into Palestine for a highland country.
14:08 And this all would have been very, very slow going.
14:09 Again, this is coming on the heels of him, you know, hiding.
14:13 Sarah's identity and, you know, kind of tricking the Pharaoh and all this type of stuff.
14:18 But the fact that he is so rich is an incredible thing for us to understand because a lot of
14:25 things come off the fact that he's so rich and he basically goes against a lot of different
14:29 customs.
14:30 You know, during this time period, he's going against certain customs that you would see
14:34 from other people that were rich.
14:36 But in terms of this section here, the first thing I really want to talk about is this
14:40 separation that needed to happen because Lot was not as well off as Abram.
14:45 He didn't need to basically humble himself and say, "Hey, hey, hey, let's not argue
14:49 about this.
14:50 You know, I'll kind of let you have first pick."
14:52 But then Lot, you know, basically is like, "All right, I'm going to take the choices
14:54 of land."
14:55 He doesn't meet the selflessness with selflessness, he just kind of thinks himself, "I'm going
15:00 to go ahead and take an advantage."
15:01 I think for a lot of us, like we have a little bit of that in us, whether or not we pull
15:05 that out.
15:06 It's like, "Hey, this is kind of going to be a good opportunity for me."
15:08 Yeah, a few things for us to start out talking there, so ready, set, go.
15:11 I think when we look at it, as we look at Lot, I think he's looking at being closer
15:16 to the cities as more of a business kind of transaction.
15:18 So they had a lot of shepherding, a lot of animals and stuff like that, so sales would
15:23 be a lot easier than people coming from the cities all the way over to the land of Canaan.
15:28 So I think that was a big issue, but I think what I wanted to talk about before we got
15:33 into that, just to reiterate, is when Abraham left during the famine and went to Egypt,
15:41 he didn't have his faith in God.
15:43 And then what I really enjoyed seeing is that God still made him rich, like God still held
15:47 to his promises even though Abraham lost faith.
15:51 And so when he comes back to where he was before, he's even more richly based.
15:57 But then he's also more, how do you want to say it, he's more selfless too, because the
16:01 fact that he was just, that's his nephew, who's, like you said, Kyle, is not like, and he's
16:06 not anybody really, but his nephew.
16:08 And he's like, hey, if you want to go right, I'll go left.
16:11 If you want to go left, I'll go right, whatever you want, I will do.
16:14 So it just shows kind of like the man that that Abraham was.
16:17 I think it's important to discuss here as well, because again, what you're not advocating
16:22 for is this type of, you know, oh, I literally just like slip my mind.
16:28 What is like Joel Steen's claim to fame?
16:29 He's a prosperity gospel, good grief.
16:32 But there's, there's the other side of this within, especially modern Christiandom, which
16:35 is poverty gospel, which is like if you're going to be a Christian, you just can't be
16:39 financially successful.
16:41 And obviously we've heard a lot of different arguments and we've talked about this a lot
16:44 on the show.
16:45 It's like, you know, ministry is expensive.
16:46 Like whenever these, these families go over and they live in India or Bangladesh or something
16:50 like that and they're sharing the gospel around like, that's expensive work to fly them back
16:54 and forth to, to pay for their, for their living in different things like that.
16:57 Most of these people are not, you know, itinerant workers are not tent makers while they're
17:01 over there.
17:02 They're, they're, they're trying to create relationships and do things for other people.
17:06 But that's another thing here is just because Abram was rich doesn't mean that that's guaranteed
17:11 for all of us.
17:13 But it also doesn't, it also means that that's not a negative thing, right?
17:16 That God can bestow riches on whoever the heck he wants to bestow riches on.
17:20 Well, I think the piece about that too, it's like just because he was wealthy doesn't mean
17:24 he's not going to have challenges.
17:25 Exactly.
17:26 And I think that's the thing about this.
17:27 It's like, yeah, there's so many times we think, oh, if I just get to this, if I make
17:31 this much money, then I won't have any more problems.
17:35 And that's a lie that the devil tries to tell us that say, hey, if we get here, we're good.
17:39 But it's like, you know, he was humble enough here to be like, the Lord is going to provide
17:43 him, whether I give all of this land or most of this good land to him, he's going to take
17:47 care of me of, of what I'm going to be.
17:49 So one thing we don't see here, I'm going to, we're going to go ahead, I was just going
17:53 to say here at the beginning that from what I've read with Wiersby here, it talks a lot
17:58 about how Abram had gone through his circumstances in Egypt and learned what it was like to not
18:03 be following God and go through those consequences.
18:05 And so his heart began to change and come back to God, but lots didn't necessarily do
18:10 the same thing.
18:11 And Wiersby talks about this later on, but I think it's important right now to talk about
18:15 it, which is, a lot starts his march towards Sodom, camping out outside, going into the
18:22 city, and then eventually having a position and his whole family becomes part of it while
18:26 Abraham chooses to follow God and it has these consequences.
18:29 So there's so many takeaways from that in your personal life and your community and
18:33 how you identify with God, how you learn from the challenges that he's put you through.
18:38 And this kind of sets the scene for the rest of what we're going to talk about.
18:41 And I think it also sets the scene of grace is not earned, it's given, because we see,
18:47 we'll see throughout these chapters that we go over Abraham, falling away from the faith
18:52 of what God has told him, he's what's going to happen.
18:55 And we're going to see, like you said, a lot moving towards, more towards Sodom, but still
19:00 having that inkling of faith and God still honors that and still holds to his covenant.
19:05 And so their righteousness was never earned.
19:07 It was always just given, it was a gift given by God each.
19:10 I think what we're going to see in these chapters is the patience God has, not only for these
19:15 guys, but for like us as well.
19:17 I don't really like speculating that much.
19:19 Do we think Abraham was a little disappointed after a lot picked the land that he picked?
19:23 Because we have no indication from the text.
19:25 This is complete speculation, guys, it's fun, because guess what?
19:28 This is my Bible study that I let y'all listen in on, okay?
19:31 But there is a part of me that just wonders if he was just like, you know what, I'm going
19:35 to off, you know, when someone offers something, but they're, yeah, we'll see what he takes,
19:39 but they're not expecting him to take the best one.
19:41 And then they take the best one, you're like, kind of wish I wouldn't have offered it from
19:45 the beginning.
19:46 Again, speculating, making it weird.
19:47 I don't think so.
19:48 I think at this point, you know, Abraham's faith in God, just showing like, hey, I'll
19:54 go left if you go right, and I'll go right if you go left.
19:56 Like he had faith no matter what was going to happen.
19:58 And I also don't feel like this land was that close to the city of Sodom, as we think
20:03 it was, you know, it's probably a little bit of a journey.
20:06 And so I don't think he was that upset.
20:10 I think they were going to be a little, I think what he could have been more upset about
20:13 if I was going to be upset is that they were sharing a lot, they land with the Canaanites
20:17 and the Preziites or parasites, parasites, parasites, sorry, Joby, sorry.
20:24 Don't tell Terry.
20:25 Sorry, Joby.
20:26 Yeah.
20:27 So, um, but his numbers drastically go down.
20:30 So you know, you're trying to, you're, they had more numbers in that land.
20:34 So they kind of owned it based on numbers.
20:36 And so him moving off to something else brings his numbers down.
20:38 Yeah.
20:39 So I just made a note of this.
20:40 It's a direct answer to your question from Wiersby, which I think is good, says Abraham
20:44 lived by faith, not by sight.
20:46 No matter what Lot did, Abraham was not worried about his future for he knew that everything
20:50 was in the hands of the Lord.
20:52 Abraham had never read Psalm 47, 4, or Matthew 6, 33, but he was putting both into practice
20:58 by faith.
20:59 He had met God at the altar and knew that everything was under control.
21:03 When God is first in your life, it makes no difference who is second or last.
21:06 And you bring that up the altar, like he created that altar and he came back to it.
21:11 And so like, what's really crazy as I was doing the study here?
21:14 And I was listening to music and outcome to the altar game.
21:17 Which version?
21:18 Change change.
21:19 I'm, uh, no, it wasn't Shane and Shane.
21:21 I'm sure it was a Fertich church elevation.
21:23 Shane, Shane, you mentioned him in a positive light on the show.
21:27 Well, you are a bank for speaking for two minutes.
21:30 Technically Fertich's worship music is, uh, is more theologically correct than a sermon.
21:35 So which is also true.
21:36 That's, that's another thing that just has a quick side note, because I know we've had
21:39 some discussions at this table about, uh, elevation and about Bethel and about different
21:43 places to where it's like, okay, you have to call balls and strikes on individual pieces
21:47 of content.
21:48 Right.
21:49 And so like it's like when someone listens to a five minute rant on my show and then
21:52 they dismiss all 700 plus episodes, it's like, probably not the best thing that you should
21:56 have ever done.
21:57 But if there's a line that's a little theologically squishy in a Bethel song and you're like,
22:01 ah, can't listen to any of it.
22:03 It's like, all right, that's going to be a little bit problematic.
22:05 But to the point that, that we're kind of on, you know, verse four, to the place where
22:09 he had made an altar at the first and their Abram called upon the name of the Lord.
22:13 There's some discussion of like, okay, what is the, you know, what is the impetus behind
22:18 this move?
22:20 Was it a sense of shame?
22:21 Uh, is that why he came to the altar?
22:24 Was it a sense of shame for what he did in Egypt and the lies that he, that he told?
22:28 Or was this just straight up a sense of thankfulness for being delivered from his peril and it
22:33 doesn't have to be either or it could be a mixture of both.
22:35 But we don't see explicitly from the text why Abram called upon the name of the Lord
22:40 and made an altar.
22:41 Uh, was this just duty?
22:43 Was this just an over an abundance and an overflow of the duty that he felt?
22:46 But that is something because for, for some of us, we don't come to the altar unless things
22:51 are really, really jacked up, right?
22:54 That is when we come with our prayers of supplication, right?
22:57 And then some people just go to the altar when they have a need of any kind.
23:00 Some people go to the altar when they're thankful.
23:02 Like when people ask me about my prayer life, I'm like, where I don't struggle at all is
23:05 prayer is a thankfulness.
23:06 I will be walking through the parking lot to my vehicle and I'll think to myself, I have
23:10 a vehicle.
23:11 That is awesome.
23:12 I can get to wherever I need to go.
23:13 And I have a vehicle that is for the most part reliable.
23:16 That is really awesome.
23:17 But when it comes to, oh, I need help making this decision.
23:20 That's where I'm like, yeah, you know, God, you gave me a spirit of wisdom.
23:23 Like, you know, we're good.
23:24 I don't need your help here, which is so stupid.
23:25 But that, that's the one thing that I thought about when we were getting into the verse
23:28 four.
23:29 Yeah.
23:30 And personally, this really stuck out because, um, I think I've come to realize that you
23:36 can't really manufacture your faith, like true genuine trust and faith.
23:43 So you almost have to pray for it.
23:44 It's a gift of grace.
23:45 Like Ryan saying, I mean, have you guys, have you guys encountered that, especially when
23:49 you're having to be patient through a circumstance?
23:51 It's one thing to be thankful, but when you're actually having to have genuine faith to get
23:55 you through something where you can be trusting and be confident and not anxious and not
24:00 worrisome, that's a, that's a big deal.
24:03 That's those moments when you're really going to God and it defines your faith as being real
24:07 and genuine in your life.
24:08 I think I hear you on that because like, you know, I've been going through some struggles
24:12 myself and, and like reading this passage and seeing God's faithfulness even through his
24:17 doubt through Abraham's doubt and everything.
24:19 It's just like, man, this guy actually heard the voice of God and, and it has his doubts
24:25 and it's like, Hey, I'm going through this tough time.
24:26 I'm going to put my faith in God, but sometimes those doubts will kind of hit you up in like
24:29 middle of the night, the be witching hours.
24:31 I think we had a forging instead on that.
24:33 I think it's just the witching hours, but it doesn't matter or whatever.
24:36 So be wished.
24:37 Are you, was that like a reference to the old school television show that you got to watch
24:40 when you were sick?
24:41 Stayed up.
24:42 Nick at night.
24:43 Nick at night.
24:44 No, I wasn't struck out on that one.
24:45 All right.
24:46 Keep going with what you're thinking.
24:47 But what I'm saying is like, sometimes those doubts will, will hit you and so they creep
24:50 up and then, man, I just go into prayer and it's just like, it's just like, man, but when
24:54 those doubts hit me, sometimes I feel bad.
24:56 I'm like, why am I doubting God?
24:57 Right.
24:58 I'm actually curious because like, I think when on your maiden voyage on the forging
25:02 table, I said you have the disposition of a golden retriever, which is 100% true, like
25:06 you're just happy all the time.
25:08 I literally thought about the other day because there's a few people in my life that I ever
25:11 saw them get angry.
25:12 I would think the rapture was going to follow because it would just be like, Oh my gosh,
25:15 this person's angry.
25:16 You're one of those people.
25:17 But like whenever, whenever you get in these types of things, because we've all had the
25:20 dark night of the soul, we've all been in the valley of shadow of death, where's your
25:24 default Howard?
25:25 Because like, you know, again, most people in this audience know I'm pessimistic and
25:29 I go straight to the negative and things like that, but you just seem to have this overwhelmingly
25:32 positive disposition.
25:33 Well, I think it's the, what does it, Mark preached about a couple of weeks ago, Mark
25:37 Hitchcock, Faith Bible Church, Evan, pastor, but you know, all things work together for
25:42 the good of those who love him and are called according to his plans, right?
25:45 Like, and so I think that's, I saw that modeled with my father and my mother, your dad was
25:51 a pastor, right?
25:52 My dad was a pastor.
25:53 And so he had a lot of turmoil in his life.
25:55 I mean, being a pastor is not always the easiest thing and there's conflict in the church.
25:59 And so even at times, you know, you're in major conflicts with people you love.
26:05 And so he takes it with, he took it with a grain of salt, right?
26:09 And you keep your eyes on the bigger picture.
26:11 And so it's just keeping those things in focus of what are we here for?
26:16 You know, the thing I think about now that I have kids too, it's like more is caught
26:19 than taught.
26:20 Okay, and so how I respond and how I react, how my attitude is and how I deal with my
26:28 wife and I when we're in conflicts or how I deal with people.
26:30 And so that's caught, not just by my kids, but employees and those things.
26:35 And so I think it's just, that's kind of been hardwired for me.
26:38 Now, more on a personal thing, like, sometimes we can be just too flat on everything, right?
26:45 Like, we don't get wound up about things.
26:47 And so that's a balance in life too.
26:49 And so I have to find like, where's the righteous anger and those things.
26:52 And so that was a point in my life.
26:55 You know, I did some family counseling and that's the thing, right?
26:57 There's time to, and you're called to have anger and called to be for justice.
27:01 And so it's a good balance of both of those things.
27:04 Well, I think I don't think we have a lot of problems in modernity.
27:07 I don't think a lot of our problems culturally come from men caring too much, right?
27:11 It's from men completely advocating their responsibility and caring like not at all, right?
27:16 Why do we have fatherlessness because the men are very okay with siring, you know, children,
27:23 but not with fathering them, right?
27:25 And that becomes something that's, that's really harmful.
27:27 Zach, if you would go ahead, we need to keep this ball rolling.
27:30 Genesis 13, read 14 through the end of the chapter, which is verse 18.
27:34 The Lord said to Abram, after a lot had separated from him, lift up your eyes and look from
27:39 the place where you are northward and southward and eastward and westward for all the land
27:43 that you see I will give to you to your office and to your offspring forever.
27:47 I will make your offspring as the dust of the earth so that if one can count the dust
27:51 of the earth, your offspring also can be counted arise.
27:55 Walk through the length and the breadth of the land for I will give it to you.
27:59 So Abram moved his tent and came and settled by the oaks of Howard.
28:06 Mamre.
28:07 Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre, Mamre.
28:13 Which are at Hebron and there he built an altar to the Lord.
28:16 This next section is going to get awful, but, all right.
28:18 We need to give it to you.
28:20 That's okay.
28:21 Me and when to you.
28:22 Why do you think that happened?
28:23 Why do you think that happened?
28:24 Hey, I do look ahead, guys.
28:25 But look, when you get into verse 18, regardless of if this is Mamre or Mamre or whatever, ooh,
28:30 that's a gland.
28:31 Okay, we don't need to talk about that.
28:32 Don't worry about it.
28:33 It's a mention.
28:34 Yeah, we got a little biological there for a second.
28:36 But basically there was a renewed promise from God to Abram, and so that required a fresh
28:41 tribute of gratitude.
28:43 And so I think that's a good message for men, and I don't feel like I'm stretching the text
28:46 much here.
28:47 Some men will be like, well, I already said it, right?
28:50 So if they said it once before, whether that's, I love you or you did a good job or I'm proud
28:55 of you, they'll be like, hey, I said that like three or four months ago, right?
28:59 Why do you need to hear it again?
29:00 It's like, bro, we need to hear it often because what?
29:03 God could have very easily been like, Abram, I told you this once.
29:07 Do you not remember?
29:09 But God and his patience and his foreknowledge and all the things is like, hey, man, just
29:13 let you know.
29:14 Yeah.
29:15 Like, I know things seem weird.
29:16 You're old.
29:17 She's old.
29:18 None of this stuff has happened in all this.
29:19 We're years away from me fulfilling what I'm saying I'm going to do, but just a reminder,
29:23 this is what's going to happen.
29:25 And so in that moment, Abram actually, like he could read the room a little bit.
29:28 It's like, all right, it's time for some fresh tribute here.
29:30 Yep.
29:31 All right.
29:32 It's about that in the text where he says he's like, um, walk around in it.
29:37 In other words, I just wrote in there and check it out.
29:40 And I think, I mean, I think all of us are kind of outdoors guys like to be in nature.
29:44 Yeah.
29:45 Ryan, you're a big outdoors guy, right?
29:46 With a shirt.
29:47 Anyway, go ahead.
29:48 This shirt.
29:49 I like to be outdoors.
29:50 It's like a hip.
29:51 Al Borland.
29:52 Yeah.
29:53 That's what I was going for.
29:54 Let's not get too far behind.
29:55 That was my fault.
29:56 That was, that was my fault.
29:57 It was just in to the reaching manager.
30:00 To the point, it's like, when people buy land, they love to go be on their land.
30:04 And God's telling like, this is a gift I'm giving you.
30:06 Go, go and be in it.
30:08 Walk around in it and take it in.
30:10 And to me, when I'm in nature, you praise him more.
30:14 And so I think that's the piece that just stood out to me.
30:16 God's saying, go enjoy this gift I'm giving you.
30:19 The reason I took a shot at Ryan there is because I think a few months ago, I don't even
30:22 remember what we were talking about, but I was trying to get everybody to come up with
30:25 their like, in nature, experiencing God, where's that place where you most experienced and
30:30 people are like, yeah, I was in this, you know, I was in the mountains or was all that.
30:33 You were like, I was at a coffee shop in Italy, right?
30:35 So you were like in town.
30:37 I was like, but I see that just because you were outdoors, that doesn't count, right?
30:42 It's got to be outdoors away from civilization.
30:44 And we just couldn't bring you to a place where you're like, oh, you know, I saw the
30:48 architecture of like old Italy around God's creation, which is people in a, in a city
30:56 that was.
30:57 Which wasn't the setup, Ryan, like I was the one that gave the set up.
31:00 It's like whenever I come up with these great scenarios, these alternate universe scenarios,
31:03 everybody wants to change the scenario.
31:05 It's like jerks.
31:06 I'm the one creating the scenario.
31:07 You just have to operate inside of it.
31:08 Quick creating scenarios.
31:09 They're trying to make a point.
31:10 Like, what if this happened?
31:11 All right.
31:12 Here.
31:13 Check this out.
31:14 What if this happened?
31:15 What if you were in this piazza, right?
31:16 And you're sitting there and you're having coffee and then all of a sudden someone just
31:19 black bagged you, right?
31:20 Throw black bag over at you and they kind of, they take you out in the middle of nowhere.
31:24 Do you think you could like find yourself, find your way back to civilization or live
31:27 off the land?
31:28 Here's what's going to happen.
31:29 I'll be on the phone with you.
31:30 You'll hear it.
31:31 They'll pick up the phone.
31:32 You'll be like, I got a certain.
31:33 I got a certain.
31:34 Excuse me.
31:35 Mechanical.
31:36 My entire life will have led to that moment and I'm just like, you have no idea how much
31:39 I've been training for this.
31:40 Yes.
31:41 Like that dude buried my dog.
31:42 I'm coming after you.
31:43 Hey, hey, which by the way, this will get the audience a hint as to whether or not y'all
31:48 are well-adjusted people.
31:49 Do y'all and just be honest here, like don't, don't perform.
31:52 I literally sit in my house and I'm like, come on, today's got to be the day.
31:57 Someone's got to break in.
31:58 Like someone's got to break in while I'm here to where it's like, this is completely justified
32:03 righteous violence where I like, because you don't want to slip on your hardwood floors
32:06 and that's how you get taken out by the burglar.
32:08 I'm like, I will slowly peel my socks off and then like he doesn't know where I'm going
32:12 and then I'm just going to turn the lights off and then I'm just going to meander my
32:14 way around.
32:15 And then it's just like, oh my gosh, this is the best.
32:17 This is the best.
32:18 This is a violent Kevin McCouser.
32:19 Right.
32:20 Dude.
32:21 Yeah.
32:22 Okay.
32:23 Yeah.
32:24 The whole Malone scenario where he's like torturing people.
32:25 That don't kid hurt those guys.
32:26 No, you kill them.
32:27 They're in your house.
32:28 Kevin.
32:29 So am I the only one at the table that actually sits there hoping for this to happen?
32:31 Yeah.
32:32 It'll hope.
32:33 But I think about like, okay, what am I going to do?
32:34 You think about what you would do, but you don't hope for.
32:35 All I say is like, and I've talked to my kids about this because we have guns in the
32:38 house and they're like, well, if somebody breaks in the house, you're going to shoot
32:41 them.
32:42 I'm like, they're walking towards your room.
32:43 Yes.
32:44 I'm going to shoot them.
32:45 No, I'm going to shoot them.
32:46 If they're walking towards the pantry here, if they hear my gun and they run out the door
32:48 with my DVD player, my DVD player isn't worth somebody's life.
32:52 People still have DVD players.
32:53 Well, Blu Ray player or whatever, but go back at which is just trying to make a player.
32:57 I'm just saying, man, like just like, I don't want them to hear the fire.
33:01 I don't want to.
33:02 I don't want to know.
33:03 I'm there.
33:04 I don't even know.
33:05 I mean, I think there's strategies.
33:06 I think it was a comedian that said if somebody breaks into my house, they're going to
33:08 find me standing at the top of the stairs naked.
33:10 Look at that.
33:11 Dude, I'm going to Buffalo.
33:12 Oh, man.
33:13 It's psychological.
33:14 I'm going to screw with these guys.
33:15 Oh, my God.
33:16 You tucked it under there is a funny part of the fearless book.
33:22 So again, fearless, the story about him around my favorite book ever.
33:24 So he's, he's, I think, soaking in a tub or something like that.
33:28 And then somebody like is breaking into the house and he like gets out of the tub naked
33:32 and is like chasing this guy out of the house naked.
33:35 I'm like, that is the most manly thing.
33:38 No loin cloth, like no pants, just like, I will kill you and I'm naked.
33:42 And imagine you, you're killing the guys like breathing his last breath and he looks up
33:45 and he sees your junk and he's just like, Oh, man, I got killed by a naked guy.
33:48 Probably had an aunt by its on it.
33:51 He probably had what?
33:52 Oh, yeah.
33:53 That's another good story.
33:54 Guys, you got to read that book.
33:55 It's a fantastic book, but now I feel like this entire thing is going to be culminating
34:00 in this moment, which is Ryan, uh, you were going to read the first 16 verses of Genesis
34:07 14.
34:08 But we need to go right back to this.
34:10 Again, Ryan, just look at me.
34:11 Look at me.
34:12 Connect with me right here.
34:13 If you don't know how to pronounce it, look to you don't even have to look out.
34:16 You just stopped talking and Howard knows Howard knows the assignment.
34:19 How are you have to confidently confidently say whatever we're seeing here?
34:23 Okay.
34:24 Cause that's the thing.
34:25 All these pastors with their fancy degrees and their Bible colleges and stuff like that,
34:28 they don't know how any of this crap is pronounced either.
34:30 Right?
34:31 They're just saying it confidently.
34:32 Right?
34:33 Okay.
34:34 So Ryan, if you run into any problems in these first 16 verses, Howard's here for you.
34:37 Ready?
34:38 Set.
34:39 Go.
34:40 In the days of anthral, King of Shinar, Ariak, King of Elsar and Chudalar.
34:45 All right.
34:46 And the coward.
34:47 Chalorium.
34:48 Chalorium.
34:49 Yeah.
34:50 All right.
34:51 Chalorium, King of Alhamd.
34:52 And Tidal, King of Goem.
34:53 These kings made.
34:54 Why do you guys start?
34:55 You're mind pronouncing them wrong?
34:57 It doesn't.
34:58 Dude.
34:59 No one knows.
35:00 That's the point.
35:01 But again, you don't even have to tee Howard up.
35:02 You just stopped talking, but keep going.
35:03 You're good.
35:04 You're doing great.
35:05 You're doing great.
35:06 Vere, King of Sodom, Biersha, King of Gomorrah, Chinab, King of Admah, and Shembar, King of
35:12 Zaboyam.
35:13 I think it's good.
35:14 That's good.
35:15 Those are good.
35:16 That's good.
35:17 And the King of Belia, that is Zor, Zor, and all these joint forces in the Valley of
35:23 Sidon.
35:24 That is the Salty.
35:25 12 years, they had served Chudorium.
35:28 I'm going to go with you.
35:31 Yeah, dude, I feel like that's like Jay Shandsharker for Mike.
35:36 Just start saying that.
35:38 I want to call him Cheeto.
35:41 But in the 13th year, they were Beld in the 14th year, Cheddar, and the King Sewers with
35:51 him came and defeated Rapham in a Howard, Ashton, Astrath, Carniam, Azuzium, and Ham.
36:01 And M.M., Tinshanevah, Kierka-rathom, and the Hill Country of Sarah.
36:08 As far as El Peran and the border of the wilderness, then they turned back and came to end Mishpot,
36:15 that is Kadesh, and defeated all the country of Amakolites and also the Amorites who were
36:20 dwelling in Hazan Tamar.
36:22 Then the King of Sodom, the King of Gomorrah, and the King of Admah, and the King of Zaboyam,
36:26 and the King of Bea.
36:28 That is Zor, went out and they joined battle in the valley of Sidom with the Cheddar King
36:33 of Elam.
36:34 Title King of Gom, I'm from all King of Shannar.
36:37 Ariat King of El Sar, I am so sorry, Joby.
36:40 No, this is gone.
36:41 This is good.
36:42 Four Kings against five.
36:43 Now the valley of Sidom and full of bitumen pits and the Kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled.
36:49 Some fell into them and the rest fled into the Hill Country.
36:53 So the enemy took all the possessions in Sodom and Gomorrah and their provisions and went
36:57 away.
36:58 They also took a lot in the son of Abram's brother, the son of Abram's brother who was
37:04 dwelling in Sodom in his possessions and went their way.
37:07 Then one who escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew who was living by the oaks of Mamre,
37:13 the Amorite, brother of Eskel and of Anir.
37:17 These were allies of Abram.
37:18 When Abram heard that his kinsmen had been taken captive, he led forth his trainmen born
37:23 in his house, 318 of them and went in pursuit as far as Dan and he divided the forces against
37:31 them by night.
37:32 He and his servants and defeated them pursued them to Hoba, north of Damascus.
37:40 Then he brought back all the possessions and also brought back his kinsmen a lot with his
37:46 possessions and the women and the people.
37:49 We don't normally do this, but I think that deserves a round of applause.
37:52 That was, man, that could have been one of the roughest experiences of your life.
37:55 You just leaned right into it.
37:57 But I feel like some of that maybe gets lost in all this is that, okay, this is war going
38:01 on between petty princes.
38:04 We see this even till today.
38:06 I was looking through some notes and it's like, we see skirmishes to this day in Arab
38:10 countries between rival chiefs and it's kind of like this.
38:13 It's not even technically warfare, but it's kind of the skirmish warfare, which is a different
38:17 kind of thing.
38:19 But the whole time I'm reading that section, I'm doing my best.
38:22 I can't even pronounce these right in my head, much less if I had to say them out of my
38:25 face hole.
38:26 But what gets lost here is that a lot, I bet he's wishing that he had separated from Abram
38:30 at this point, right?
38:32 Like Uncle Abram would have been a great person to have at his side right now, but it just
38:36 didn't work out that way.
38:37 Yeah.
38:38 Well, I think this also shows it affirms like this is what Moody said.
38:40 It affirms Abram's might and his prosperity.
38:43 So not only like, that's what I talked about when, when Lot was leaving, you know, like,
38:48 hey, my, his numbers just went down.
38:50 Well, we got to look at it in lots, you know, way he just got kidnapped because he didn't
38:54 have the numbers, but Abram still had the numbers along with his other buddies that came and
38:59 helped out to go after these kings and save them.
39:01 So it's, it's, it's, it just shows that, you know, you know, Abram's, Abraham's got it
39:07 all, you know.
39:08 Well, the thing is, is when you have money, because again, the, the trope is, you know,
39:12 money can't buy you happiness, but it can provide a buffer between you and anxiety.
39:16 Yeah.
39:17 So it's like, because we've all been there at different points of our lives, because
39:19 I don't think any of us come from like, you know, mountains of wealth or anything like
39:23 that.
39:24 But when someone goes wrong on the car and you don't have a lot of money in the bank,
39:27 it's like, that is, that's a real situation.
39:29 But yeah, I mean, if you, if you've done well and if God has blessed you well financially
39:33 and the transmission goes out, that sucks.
39:35 You wish it wouldn't have happened, but it's not going to like cripple your family.
39:38 And so, you know, in this type of situation, it's like, Abram's money isn't going to protect
39:42 him completely, but it does provide a buffer between him and, you know, it's like, kind
39:47 of like, if you're going to come at the king, you best not miss.
39:49 This is like, he's kind of the king in this scenario.
39:51 Well, I think the thing I took out of that is that, you know, as soon as Abram heard that
39:56 blot was in trouble, he came to the rescue.
40:00 And there was no like, Hey, I mean, I think you talked about it a couple, I mean, this
40:04 week or last week on the blade, you talked about, are we ready when we're called?
40:09 When Abram had prepared his men to be able to come to the rescue when they needed, right?
40:14 They were, most of them were herdsmen, but they knew how to go into battle.
40:19 And so Abram knew that he needed to protect his flock and he needed to protect his home.
40:24 And when he was called, he was ready.
40:27 And I think that's the thing for us as men, are we ready when we're called, whether that's
40:32 to go bury your dog at 3 a.m., whether it's to go help your, you know, help your friend
40:37 that has a car broke down, is it, you know, to go help when your daughter's heard or somebody's
40:42 threatening?
40:43 I mean, all of those scenarios that come up.
40:45 And then I think I was reading one of the commentaries that talks about second Timothy,
40:49 are we ready to preach the word when it's in front of us?
40:52 And so I think that was the piece that I took from this.
40:55 Are we ready night or day to do what we're called to do and trained to do what we need
40:59 to do as men?
41:00 That's awesome.
41:01 I think what really got me here was, like, just reading this, like, what did that battle
41:09 look like?
41:10 You know, like, how did it go in?
41:11 Like, there's not a lot of details.
41:12 It's almost like watching Gladiator 2 again, like you're missing a lot of details.
41:16 Why, you know, why are you hitting so bad on Gladiator 2?
41:19 Why are we going to do it to, like, there's like so many details in this that I'd really
41:23 want to know.
41:24 It's like, oh, man, you know, your problem, Ryan Horn, you walked into that theater expecting
41:28 Gladiator 1.
41:29 And it wasn't Gladiator 1, you can't redo the best movie of all time.
41:33 It was a sequel, and guess what?
41:35 There's multiple sequels coming.
41:36 So they didn't tie up all the loose ends because they have to leave loose ends or you don't
41:39 need another movie.
41:40 I feel like it was the ancient Rome sequel of Training Day or prequel.
41:45 I haven't seen it.
41:47 No, no, no, no, no, here's how I was waiting for them to be like King Kong ain't got nothing
41:51 on me.
41:52 Okay, no, you weren't actually waiting on that because here's the thing, Zach, when you
41:55 go and you watch, because by the time this comes out, you will have watched Gladiator 2.
41:59 Don't expect Gladiator 1, because if you go in thinking, oh, it's going to, it's going
42:03 to be a big task, but I wonder if they're going to outdo the first one.
42:06 You go in knowing there's no way they can outdo the first one, not every plot point is going
42:11 to be taken care of.
42:12 Now, there are issues with Gladiator 2.
42:14 There are certain scenes that were long, like longer than needed to be.
42:17 There are certain narratives that didn't really matter that much, but it's one of the most
42:20 visually impressive movies that I've ever seen in my entire life.
42:23 And there's more to come.
42:25 So stop being a hater, Ryan.
42:26 You agree with what he just said?
42:27 I don't, visually, it's great.
42:29 I don't think it's visually the greatest movie.
42:30 Because at this point, it's like off my list, I'm not going to watch it at all from what
42:33 I'm hearing.
42:34 Oh, no, you should watch.
42:35 You should watch it.
42:36 Because of this doof?
42:37 Like you're going to not watch it?
42:38 I'm not going to say don't watch it.
42:40 Okay.
42:41 I'm just saying like, when you create, when you create Gladiator and I get it, not all
42:45 sequels are going to be like Godfather Part 2.
42:48 You know?
42:49 Also a terrible movie.
42:50 Talking about Gladiator 2.
42:51 It took the guys six hours to make a point that Christopher Nolan made in one line in
42:56 The Dark Knight, which is basically, if you live long enough, you become like the greatest
43:00 probably sequel of all time.
43:02 But it took them six hours to realize like, Hey, at some point, you're the one that becomes
43:06 the bad guy.
43:07 It took them six hours to basically say that.
43:09 You really want to know why I'm really like sad about Gladiator 2.
43:13 You know who was written by the writer of the town?
43:16 I thought really Scott wrote it.
43:18 I know he directed it.
43:19 Is the writer, the guy who wrote the town, which this guy's a prolific writer, like he's
43:24 a great writer.
43:25 I was a little let down because I just felt like there was so many extra narratives in
43:29 there that they could have expounded upon rather than that they were underdeveloped.
43:33 Yeah, they're underdeveloped.
43:34 You had too many characters that weren't developed.
43:37 You didn't have a, you know, and have very many developed characters.
43:39 And so that's where I was just like, like, I like the story.
43:43 Dude, the story of the first Gladiator was awesome.
43:46 And that's where I'm looking at this.
43:47 Like this is like an interesting story like Abraham's cousin or nephew just got kidnapped.
43:54 He takes a bunch of guys like a, like, I don't know, like a gangster, you know, and just
43:59 like goes and gets him back.
44:00 Like what did that battle look like?
44:01 I mean, he had archers, he had people like how many people died, you know, like what
44:06 went down, you know, like I watched a movie.
44:09 There's a, there's like the story of the Bible.
44:11 It's like on TNT was back in the 90s.
44:13 I think like Richard Harris plays Abraham and they show this scene and like Abraham like
44:17 shows up with all these archers and like, but there's like no battle.
44:20 It's like Abraham's like, why should we fight?
44:22 Oh my gosh.
44:23 Like let's like, you know, it's just like there is like, I was just like, oh man, dude,
44:28 you know a battle went down right there, you know, and so, but that's what made me like
44:33 when I'm reading this, you know, I'm like, man, I wonder what really happened 318 guys.
44:37 Moral of the story.
44:38 Watch Gladiator to come up with the cool thing about in the reason why, yeah, we had some
44:43 fun with you reading that Ryan, things like that.
44:46 This is real history.
44:47 No, it is.
44:48 Like these are real people that actually existed in history, but there is one word that I want
44:52 to key on because Howard, you kind of brought this up in verse 14, when Abram heard that
44:56 his kinsman had been taken captive, he let he led forth his trained men born in his house.
45:03 So this is my commercial that I say all the time to people that if you are not equipped
45:09 to fight, if you are not trained for the fight and the fight comes to you, you will not be
45:14 prepared.
45:15 And some people think to themselves, Oh, I live where there's police.
45:18 I don't need to.
45:19 I don't need to know how to fight.
45:20 I don't need to know how to shoot because I can just call the police.
45:22 So guess what?
45:23 When seconds count and help his minutes away, that's a terrible idea, but let's use this
45:26 in a biblical context.
45:28 That's why I love the first four chapters in EMI so much.
45:31 If God is calling you to do our particular work and that work requires protection and
45:36 physical preparedness and you are neither prepared physically or don't have the mindset
45:41 of a protector, you're at a deficit.
45:44 And so that's the thing that I don't understand is people will just read right this.
45:46 Oh, yeah, these are trained men.
45:47 And that's just kind of what it was like in those days.
45:49 Well, yes, like there, there were no slovenly, like, you know, people sitting around watching
45:55 Netflix in those days, everybody was working, right?
45:57 They weren't eating, you know, microplastics and all those types of things.
46:00 And so like these are, these were people that are pretty virile, but these men were trained.
46:04 There was no.
46:05 All right.
46:06 We see that lots been taken.
46:08 Okay.
46:09 Let's get some guys together.
46:10 Let's do P90X.
46:11 Let's take the next three months to really get in shape.
46:13 Let's start working with our spears and working with our bows and things like that.
46:16 They were ready to go and there are so many men that are just not physically ready and
46:22 they're also not mentally ready to pull the trigger.
46:24 I know a lot of people that can still carry that when the time comes to shoot, they're
46:27 probably going to leave their pistol in their pants because they've not made the decision
46:30 that I'm going to take life.
46:31 I'm going to act.
46:32 I'm going to put myself in harm's way to protect someone else.
46:34 So there's my commercial again.
46:36 No one has to like necessarily dunk on that.
46:38 But Ryan.
46:39 I'm not trying to dunk on it.
46:40 Like just kind of foreshadows next in the chapter, but Abraham's son, Ishmael, like if you go
46:47 back and look at the histrion, he's known as a expert archer.
46:51 That's what he's known for.
46:52 So you know that in this camp, there was training to militarize these guys to any type of battle
46:58 if it needed to go down.
47:00 That's right.
47:01 And again, there are going to be varying degrees of preparedness and things like that.
47:06 And we don't need to worship at the altar of preparedness, right?
47:09 There are certain guys that are worshiping at the altar of being a prepper and having
47:12 their, you know, their cans of beans in the basement and like shooting all the time and
47:15 all those types of things.
47:16 I think there's a way where you can go over the top, but being a man and not knowing how
47:20 to fight and not knowing how to protect the people around you, there's simply no excuse
47:24 for it.
47:25 There's another element of this too, I think, just reading through some of the notes, which
47:28 is when I first read it, I'm thinking, well, he's going to rescue his kin, right?
47:34 It's like a natural response.
47:36 But some of these notes say, you know, in reality, they had strife.
47:40 They separated.
47:41 Their relationship may not have been great.
47:44 But despite that, Abraham took action, or Abram at this point took action and went in
47:50 and basically practiced what Jesus said, which is sacrificial service, showing the love of
47:55 Christ.
47:57 So Abram was practicing brotherly love and overcame evil with good, and he had to risk
48:02 his own life to do that.
48:03 So if you're in a situation, I know I've been in situations like this where you're called
48:08 to do something for someone that maybe you don't have a great relationship with, it's
48:13 something to think about.
48:14 That may be exactly what God's calling you to do at that moment.
48:17 When I think in that moment, I feel like in modernity, we don't really have as much of
48:22 that natural protective mechanism of kin.
48:25 As it were, perhaps I'm speaking out of turn, but I do think that there's not as much of
48:29 that because in modernity, we're seeing a lot of people that are super isolated.
48:33 So this has been talked about a lot, but people aren't going to movie theaters anymore.
48:37 They're just staying home restaurants, right?
48:40 You walk in, there's nobody eating there, but there's like a bunch of brown bags on
48:43 the bar because people are ordering out and they're going and picking it up and the only
48:47 interaction they're having is with nobody because they've already paid for it.
48:50 They don't need to ask the person, "Yes, this is my name.
48:52 Can you grab my food?"
48:54 But I feel like we've lost a little bit of that natural instinct to want to protect people
48:58 that are our kin, but then also it's kind of the point I made in the episode about burying
49:03 your dog is when you find out certain guys are closer than blood.
49:07 When you, Ryan and Russ showed up, it's like, "I don't have a brother," but in that moment
49:13 I did in those types of things, but I didn't have a blood brother that I needed to go in
49:17 a venge, but I feel that same way about all you guys at this table and my extended foxhole.
49:22 I just feel like we've lost a little bit of that.
49:24 I can't exactly put my finger on one thing that would explain it.
49:28 It certainly feels that way.
49:29 Well, the Bible has a blueprint for that too, Ryan.
49:31 It says in many cases, "Don't go to your brother who's in a faraway place, but go to
49:36 your neighbor or go to your Christian brotherhood."
49:38 I mean, it's explicit, and so I think that's why it works.
49:41 That's one of our walk together, and that's why if somebody sticks a black bag over my
49:44 head and if he outside, I'm not going to worry.
49:47 You call me your brother right there.
49:48 You hear me?
49:49 You hear me?
49:50 You hear me?
49:51 You hear me?
49:52 Call Kyle Thompson.
49:53 He's been trained for this.
49:54 All right, guys, let's go and wrap up Genesis 14.
49:55 We will take a volunteer because it has been an absolute mass reading and I've been skipping
49:57 around, so we'll volunteer to read 17 through 24.
49:59 I'll do it through 17 through.
50:03 Just read the end of the chapter.
50:06 After his return from the defeat of Chedor Leomer and the kings who were with him, Don
50:13 Phonics, let's go.
50:14 The king of Sodom went out to meet him at the valley of Shaba, that is the king's valley.
50:19 And Malachizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine.
50:22 He was priest of God most high and he blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram by God most
50:28 high, possessor of heaven and earth, and blessed be God most high, who has delivered your enemies
50:33 into your hand."
50:34 And Abram gave him a tenth of everything and the king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me
50:39 the persons, but take the goods for yourself."
50:42 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have lifted my hand to the Lord, God most high,
50:47 possessor of heaven and earth, that I would not take a thread or a sandal strap or anything
50:52 that is yours.
50:53 Lest you should say, I have made Abram rich.
50:57 I will take nothing but what the young men have eaten and the share of the men who went
51:01 with me.
51:03 Let Aynor and Eschol and Mamre take their share."
51:09 So some very interesting things about this part here.
51:12 So we see this king that's described here.
51:14 This is one of the only kings that we see listed that seems to be a servant of God as
51:18 well.
51:19 And so that's very interesting.
51:20 But David Brown has a commentary, he had an interesting thing about verse 20.
51:25 So this is evidence of Abram's piety and valor for it was a priest that he offered the
51:30 tenth of the spoil, which is a token of his gratitude and an honor of a divine ordinance.
51:36 Because he didn't need to do this because it was customary for Arab tribes to take the
51:41 recovered goods, to take the spoils of war and of conquest.
51:45 And so Abram's actions here seem completely counter to what is customary.
51:50 And so again, if you're just reading through this without any understanding of history,
51:53 that's why some people are like, don't read commentaries, only read the words.
51:55 It's like, well, you would just completely flat out miss this because we're living in
51:59 our current context where we're downstream of all these cultural revolutions.
52:03 But at that time and still to this day, it's like, no, you keep your spoils.
52:07 Like there is no need to give away any of it, much less a tenth.
52:10 Well, I wonder if he like to test the king of Sodom so much because it's such a wicked
52:14 city that he doesn't want any part of the spoils.
52:17 And he just takes the men that came with him, the sodomites who came with him to help get
52:22 lot back and then gave them freedom.
52:23 Yeah.
52:24 I thought the same thing in this, I'm like, man, I wouldn't, that's what I want to separate
52:26 myself as much as I can from that guy.
52:28 But Mezzlet.
52:29 Melchizedek.
52:30 Melchizedek.
52:31 Like he's like, and that's the other thing about Melchizedek is that he's also a believer
52:36 in Yahweh and like, how does that, like, how would that make, you know, Abram feel, you
52:41 know, it's like he's finally like, this is a God who he's been talking to.
52:45 Who knows of other people, you know, hear God.
52:48 And so he's trying to get other people to believe, but he knows that Melchizedek.
52:52 Here's God.
52:53 And so there's almost like a priestly duty there and that's where he kind of gives the
52:56 tenth not out of like having to, but as a out of worship, you know, towards God.
53:02 So that's, that's where I got from the moody when I was looking at the moody commentary.
53:06 And a lot of, you know, as I read this and him dealing with Sodom, the king of Sodom,
53:10 it's a lot of proverbs coming out, being wise, not dealing with, you know, an evil king
53:16 or an evil person and not letting them become part of your life, not letting them have anything
53:20 over you.
53:21 And he says this much.
53:22 Yep.
53:23 Any last thoughts on Genesis 13 or 14?
53:26 Boys, we did good work today.
53:29 That was very, very good.
53:30 Well, guys, we're going to leave it there, but make sure you come back here next week
53:33 where we are going to dig into Genesis 15 and 16.
53:36 So Genesis 15 and 16, but before that you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost
53:40 added onto life permission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges,
53:43 spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
53:45 Don't forget that we have a cross way.
53:46 The forging table starter set, you can check that out in the show notes.
53:49 You can get all the information about how you can get those five books.
53:51 And then also the best Bible software on planet earth is the Logos Bible software.
53:55 If you are digging deep into the scripture, there's no better way to do that with, with
53:59 anything on planet earth other than that software, but don't use it at full price.
54:02 Use it as a discount.
54:03 And also just a reminder, we are a donation based ministry.
54:05 So if you're wondering how do we pull off the forging table, how can we pay for the electricity
54:09 that has the lights that are shining down on this wonderful forging table?
54:11 This is because we have guys like you that are hopped on that have hopped on board that
54:15 know that this is important work and that you want this to get into the ears and attention
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54:20 So if you want to be one of those guys hop on board and be a donor.
54:23 Thank you for listening to this podcast.
54:24 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
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54:28 If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email
54:31 to info@undonton.life.
54:34 That's I N F O at undonton.life.
54:36 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
54:39 including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
54:42 Just go to www.undonton.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
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54:49 The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
54:53 on Face Down Records.
54:54 The links are in the description.
54:56 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
54:58 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
55:05 You're seeking the Lion of Judah.
55:35 [BLANK_AUDIO]
Key quotes
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Kyle Thompson
If you are not equipped to fight, if you are not trained for the fight and the fight comes to you, you will not be prepared.
Kyle Thompson
Are we ready when we're called, whether that's to go bury your dog at 3 a.m., or to go help your friend that has a car broke down?
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