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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
0:54
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:56
Let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the forging table.
0:59
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:02
forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:04
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:08
by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:11
us.
1:12
That's Winkler.
1:13
That's Horn.
1:14
That's Dagan.
1:15
Welcome back and Dagan.
1:16
You are coming off an impressive golf thing and I don't know how else to describe it, but
1:19
you did a thing on a golf course and it's the other guys not happy.
1:24
You're happy.
1:25
What did you do again?
1:26
I've already forgot.
1:27
Well, it's a two-day tournament.
1:28
I beat a guy in match play so he goes to the loser's bracket and I get to play someone
1:34
else who also won today tomorrow to see who ultimately gets to just say they're the winner.
1:40
All right.
1:41
Well, I'm going to two things.
1:42
I'm going to remind you to speak right into the end of the mountain because I know you're
1:45
distracted because of all the things you did perfectly today, so I just need a critique
1:48
you to bring you down just a notch.
1:49
I'm going to ask a question that I can't remember why it's important, but what's your handicap
1:54
and what is a handicap?
1:56
Your handicap, that's a good question.
1:58
Your handicap is basically how you level every golfer no matter what their ability is.
2:03
Okay.
2:04
And it's basically a way of saying like on a golf course, your handicap determines essentially
2:11
what your score would be on that golf course.
2:12
So, so I'm a six.
2:14
So if you, if I play with somebody that's a 14, it's just how we would level by how many
2:19
strokes that person would get to bring us back to where we could like play a match against
2:23
it.
2:24
So it's like if you're a favorite, if you're like a seven point favorite in a football
2:26
game, it's like you're giving seven.
2:27
That's exactly right.
2:28
Okay.
2:29
To all of you out there that like know anything about golf, this first like two minutes has
2:32
been absolutely painful for you, and I'm really, really sorry, but I don't watch golf, but
2:35
like you had, yeah, that was a big deal today, like someone went in a jujitsu tournament
2:39
and being like, Hey, I don't know what that means, but that's kind of cool that you got
2:41
a medal.
2:42
So, but before we get into acts nine, because I'm excited to get into acts nine, I want
2:46
to know your guys's favorite conversion stories that you know, where somebody converted to
2:52
Christianity, because you've heard some extreme stories and things like that out there.
2:57
So this could be somebody that you know, personally, this could be, you know, just a story that
3:01
you heard of.
3:02
Maybe you're watching.
3:03
I know Ryan, your big TV in guy you love watching TV in.
3:05
So maybe while you're watching that, you get one of those big conversion stories, you
3:08
know, heroin, needle in the arm, and then all of a sudden you ascended, you know, and
3:11
then you were halfway between here and there and then you came back.
3:14
So does anybody have one that comes right off of the top of your brain?
3:16
Because I got one, but do false conversions count?
3:20
Uh, no, that's super lame.
3:22
What do you mean?
3:23
Like how, how would it be?
3:24
What kind of false conversion?
3:25
I was just thinking of Kanye.
3:26
Uh, well, yeah, that was fun there for a second.
3:28
He released a decent album and then now he has his own porn company.
3:31
So yeah, maybe maybe he's backsliding delayed communication guys to late.
3:36
What level of backsliding is now I own a porn company?
3:40
Like that's, that's a little bit different.
3:42
So let's go with actual conversions as far as we can tell.
3:45
I've got one.
3:46
All right.
3:47
So, so any this, this is the one that comes into my head.
3:52
It's the only one that I was really impacted me was when I was in high school.
3:55
Uh, I, there's a kid older than me.
3:59
His name's Chris and you know, not, not the worst kid, but like he did drugs.
4:04
And I think like he wasn't, you know, he wasn't a real happy soul.
4:08
Uh, he went to, we had off campus lunch.
4:10
He went to off campus lunch by himself and on the way back, like he'll describe.
4:15
He knows, and I know the intersection in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, where this happened where he's
4:19
just, Jesus just spoke to him and he left lunch not believing and he returned to the
4:26
high school from lunch completely sold out like Jesus is real, you know, and then he felt
4:32
like Jesus was telling him, you need to join the soccer team because the soccer team is
4:36
your mission field and he hadn't played soccer in like three years and he goes out, tries
4:40
out for the soccer team, makes the soccer team.
4:43
They make him captain, they're having Bible studies by the end of season.
4:46
Like it's, it is like one of those things where you look at yourself in high school
4:49
and think, man, like no, God never came to me on my way back from lunch like, like, you
4:54
know, but just like impactful.
4:56
I think he's like, he's somewhere in the South Pacific, Cambodia or something like as a missionary,
5:02
like fully devoted, fully committed lifelong, but unbelievable story.
5:06
Just, Hey, if, if, and I feel like I went to, I went to school with him, so did a lot of
5:11
other believers. We missed the opportunity to share, to share Jesus with him, but Jesus
5:15
needed him and was like, all right, I'll do him myself.
5:18
Okay.
5:19
And he helped to make the soccer team. So guys, that's how it goes. You become a Christian
5:22
and then things just start working out for you. That's the guarantee, right? Sure. He
5:25
wasn't acting. That's the soccer player. It may. Well, the entire thing was a flop.
5:31
The entire thing. Oh, we totally got you. Okay. What about for the other side of the
5:35
table?
5:36
Mine's kind of historical. Okay, hit it. Martin Luther. Okay. Tell us it's for those of us
5:41
that aren't experts in Martin Luther's conversion story. Go ahead and we get out. Martin Luther
5:44
was a Catholic priest and he believed in the Catholic, whatever doctrine, catechism, catechism,
5:52
and so he thought that it was works that got him to heaven. And so he kept trying to figure
5:56
out works and kept getting upset with himself. And, and it was like realizing like, Hey, I'm
6:01
not a good person. You know, like, I don't understand how much works do I have to do
6:04
to make up for the bad things that I do. And then he actually went and read Galatians and
6:08
was like, Oh, man, that was the first book we went over for a forging table. It was. And
6:13
he read Galatians and realized that you are saved by grace, not by works. Okay. So that
6:18
would probably be one of my favorite conversion stories, Ben. We're pretty sure he wasn't flopping.
6:22
He wasn't faking it. We're he didn't play soccer. So I think we're good. I mean, he was
6:26
your opinion though. So it's, you know, he's kind of like soccer adjacent almost just by
6:31
being born on that continent. Okay. Winkler.
6:35
Personal side. When I was in high school, after I was saved, we had this program called
6:42
disciple now, and I invited. Oh, man, like seven or eight people to come. All of them
6:53
were saved that weekend. But the person I was probably most excited about was my little
6:57
sister, because she grew up Catholic, just like I did, you know, we went through confirmation.
7:05
You know, we did all the things, but we I don't know that either one of us really knew why
7:10
we were doing it. The friends that I invited, watching them get baptized, it was very, very
7:17
powerful. But whenever my sister was baptized, I broke down. I mean, that was pretty emotional.
7:24
So if you, my favorite conversion, and I don't even know if it was really a conversion, but
7:28
we're just like, yeah, now, now I know, was, was primary little sister, man, the baptism
7:34
thing is so cool. Cause I still remember sitting right in front of you, Ryan, a faith Bible,
7:39
whenever will was being baptized. And it was just such like a cool, like emotional moment
7:44
to be able to like experience that with somebody and like, you know, with, with the boys, you
7:48
know, Lord willing with James and Eli, like we're going to freaking have a blowout. There
7:51
ain't no way. I'm letting them get baptized by some random dude at faith Bible church
7:56
in Emma, Oklahoma, not hating, just saying, not hating, just saying, but we are going
8:00
to freaking get after it. It was Pastor J. Yeah, I was really happy it was Pastor J.
8:04
Great calves on that pastor J. Oh, my God, it's like a guy that he's never done, never
8:09
done a single calf raise and looks like someone stuffed cantaloupes in the backs of his legs.
8:14
Just incredible.
8:15
But the cool thing is like, sadly, my son was baptized on his birthday, but usually for
8:19
a baptism, we like to make it a birthday, make it a birthday party. Oh, yeah. Unfortunately,
8:23
he was baptized on his birthday because he wanted to do it as quickly as he could. But
8:28
like on your birthday on Christmas, kind of, yeah, with our daughter, we're going to do
8:30
kind of the same thing. It's just like have her baptized. And that's kind of like a birthday
8:34
of celebration. I mean, I just think that's excellent planning. How are you ever going
8:37
to forget the date? Yeah, that's true. No, I got married on my birthday. No, here's
8:41
the thing about that is like, um, I don't remember the date that I, whatever your preferred
8:47
languages, the date that I accepted Christ, I don't remember the date. I remember it was
8:50
a Sunday. I remember when I, when it was, I, when I was in 10th grade, but I didn't submit
8:55
it to memory because like, I knew my life was forever changed and different from that
9:00
moment. But I didn't think I was going to, because I was, you know, I was, I would have
9:03
been 15 years old. I was 15. So it's like, I don't know to remember these dates. Like
9:07
I barely remember my phone number at that point. And so it's just like that, that's
9:10
okay. That is a cool thing to be able to remember that.
9:12
I've often wondered, like, if, if I had been more consistent after high school, if I would
9:18
actually remember the date, yeah, because, you know, go to college. Do you remember the
9:22
date again? You know, I've got an old Bible that has the date I was baptized in written
9:26
in my parents, but I was eight, right? I was eight. So there is this like, you know, conversion,
9:33
really that I think a lot of Christians do. And it's the, it's the converting from head
9:36
knowledge to heart knowledge, right? Like where it actually is like, Oh, I get it. That's
9:42
a funny thing. I was baptized up when I was like 24. And I don't remember the date or
9:46
anything, but I can tell you exactly when I became, like when I understood the gospel
9:50
and I was like 34 years old and it was back in Texas, you know? And so that's the sad
9:54
part is I was baptized at 24. But I understand the gospel tells about 34, like 10 years later.
9:58
Yeah, I was baptized as a little kid. My mom would like forces to go to the soul church
10:03
Christ. Just, you know, my mom, my sister and me and we would go. And then one day she's
10:07
driving us home and she's just like, well, you know, y'all think y'all want to get baptized
10:10
next week? And at the time, the only experience I had with baptism was our grandmother. She
10:16
was like a week away from dying of cancer. And I remember them taking her to a church
10:20
and getting her baptized. And I was like, and I've said this a long show before, but
10:22
I was like, Oh, so you have, you have sin, like all over your body. And then if we know
10:27
around the time you're, you're going to croak, like we're going to dip you in the water,
10:31
cover, get all that sin off of there. And then you don't have enough time to accumulate
10:35
the layers of sin back. And then, you know, I was like, well, I feel like a car accident.
10:40
You're like a real [inaudible] before then. Like how does that work? And so like, you know,
10:44
I got dipped, but you know, it wasn't until I was baptized as a 15 year old that it took
10:48
probably my favorite conversion story that I know of personally. And I've said this on
10:52
the show before, but I know we get new listeners every week. So we're happy you guys are here.
10:57
Whenever I was in college at the University of Central Oklahoma, I was there from 2004
11:00
to 2008, I think in 2007, they got a male men's hockey team because of how title nine works.
11:07
Like some, some things are, you know, varsity sports and some have to be like club or something
11:13
like that. So men's soccer was club and men's hockey was club. And at the time, you know,
11:19
there's guys from all over the place, but it was mainly people from like Illinois, like
11:23
Chicago area. And there was like Minnesota. There were some guys from Canada, Michigan,
11:28
like that type of thing. Well, there was this one guy that was brought in to fight. His
11:32
name was Kevin [inaudible]. And his job was to be a defenseman, which was, you know, code
11:36
for if anyone needs to get wrecked, you're the one to do it. He was a goon. Yeah, he
11:41
was the he was a goon 100% the goon. And this guy, like he looked terrifying. He had two
11:46
different color eyes. He had like a scar over one of his eyes, like one of his teeth, front
11:52
teeth was chipped. The tooth tooth was chipped. He very, very large guy, probably six, three,
11:59
you know, 220 pounds, very solid worked out all time. And he had a temper and his temper
12:05
like had a tail to it. So like you kind of would feel the temper and it wouldn't go away
12:09
for a long time. Like there would just be stories of he would be at a party, having fun,
12:13
chilling, drinking, whatever. And then he would just pick a guy and be like, you me,
12:16
you're fighting like he was that just complete, like, you know, just a sawed off human being,
12:22
right? And so I graduate and Kelsey graduates and you know, we're still living in Edmond
12:27
at the time. This is maybe 2010 or something like that. And Kelsey and I are at the Walmart
12:31
here on I 35. And we're like in the produce section, getting like, you know, bananas or
12:36
something. And then right across the produce section, I see him and everyone just called
12:39
him folks. No one called him Kevin. Everyone just called him folks. I see him and he looks,
12:43
me right in the eye and then just immediately starts walking towards me. I'm just like,
12:47
Oh, no, I have no idea what I've done. But he's going to beat me up next to the tomatoes.
12:52
Like this is going to be scared of somebody. Well, I did not a fight at the time. And so
12:57
like again, I'm I'm 22 years old at this point, 2023. And so it's like I had no had no fight
13:02
training and like nothing like that. So I'm just like, crap, this is this is going to
13:05
be painful and public. And he comes up to me. And if I'm lying, I'm dying. Again, remember
13:09
he telling you like kind of crazy eyes and real intimidating? He looked different. And
13:14
I don't mean like me looking at him like how he looked at you was different. And he came
13:19
up to me. He's like, Kyle Kelsey, it's it's so great to see you guys. Hey, um, I accepted
13:25
Jesus not that long ago. Can I tell you guys about it? And I was like, literally, I just
13:29
got chills like frickin just doing that story right now. Cause I was just like, what are
13:34
you doing? Like, I am so glad that that was what you needed to tell me as opposed to what
13:40
I thought was coming. And for him, there was a chaplain for the UC O hockey team that would
13:45
just, you know, love on these guys. And some of these guys have never seen a Bible. Like
13:49
I remember, I remember one of the guys from Canada, he was whatever part of Canada that's
13:54
French. And he had never seen a Bible before. And he's in the dorm room with some of the
13:59
guys and me and my girlfriend at the time is now my wife Kelsey. And she had a Bible
14:03
out and he goes, Hey, do you mind if I, can I like pick that up? And she's like, yeah,
14:07
why he's like, I've never seen a, is that's a Bible? I've never seen one before. And so
14:10
like this chaplain is working with that level of type of stuff. And this guy, foods, I mean,
14:16
he was, he was a gang banger in Chicago. Like he was an enforcer. He helped run girls like
14:21
it was, he was a serious, serious dude. And Jesus just said, not play and then just snatch
14:27
this dude up. And the last I heard of him, I haven't heard from him. I tried to find
14:31
him a few years ago. He was helping plant churches, like around the country. And it's
14:36
just like, bro, like just an incredible, incredible thing. And so the reason why I kind of wanted
14:41
to do that is I always like to kind of hear those types of experiences because acts nine,
14:45
we get into probably the most famous of all conversions considering what came after this.
14:51
And so let's just dig right into acts nine. So Jake, if you wouldn't mind just read the
14:55
first couple of verses, we'll take a pause and then keep going.
14:59
But still, but Saul still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord
15:03
went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus so that
15:09
if he found any belonging to the way men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
15:15
So just real quick right here, breathing threats and murder. I think something that we lose
15:20
out on on this story, because you know, you hear about the Damascus road experience. The
15:23
Damascus road is kind of a cultural colloquialism. Like we just kind of say it. Like, Oh, this
15:27
is just, you know, you're you're having your Damascus road experience right now. And there's
15:31
somehow come to Jesus moment all wrapped in, at least we say that culturally. But Saul
15:36
was a terrorist. Like for any way that you want to describe it, he was Hamas, he was
15:42
Isis, he was Boca Haram, he was Al Qaeda, like that's that's who he was. And I wrote down
15:47
this this note real quick, and we don't have to camp out here too long because we've got
15:50
quite a bit to go in chapter nine. But I feel like the reason why he was on the Damascus
15:55
road is not talked about enough because it's such a cultural knowledge. Like we all kind
16:01
of vaguely know about this story. He was on his way to Damascus to hunt. Like that. That's
16:08
what he was doing. He was hunting for Christians not to bother, but to imprison, drag back and
16:12
to kill.
16:13
Yeah, it, the other thing is here, when they talk about breathing murder, breathing threats
16:18
and murder, the Greek word here is actually breathing it, you know, it's not breathing
16:23
out. It's breathing inhaling. Yeah, like a bull before it's charging. Like it's a sprawl
16:28
hybrid. Yes. Yeah. And he is a like, so Paul is, Paul is a hard charging bull. He is it's
16:35
relentless. He is pursuing Christians to the end of the earth. He is wiping them all out.
16:40
When he attack, he's doing it because he believes he's serving the God of Israel. So he's doing
16:45
it in what he thinks is righteousness, right? And then, and then he, you know, there's,
16:51
there's the, the, the Roman world. And then there's the local governments. And so he has
16:55
to go get his paperwork, which is what I think is, is, you know, I mean, there's, there is
17:00
strategy and like he's getting all of his boxes checked by going and getting these like
17:05
letters, basically of extradition from the Sanhedrin who are basically like saying, yeah,
17:11
go outside of the city and go bring him back. You have our permission to go into a high
17:14
priest. And this guy like puts himself into power. So like the high priest, like he wasn't
17:18
elected. And he was like, he found a way to keep himself in power the whole time. And
17:22
he was one making the decrees. Very political. Yeah, it's very, a very political move for
17:25
him to be able to go and do that, especially in Damascus. Well, that's what people didn't
17:28
really realize at that time, Ryan, which was a lot of these guys weren't religious leaders.
17:32
They were political leaders of a religious sect or something like that would be the
17:35
ocracy, wasn't it? Right. So yeah, it's, that's the difference between like theocracy and
17:39
theonomy. Theonomies where you kind of use theology to inform your decisions as a country
17:43
where it's theocracy is now it is shoved down your throat in an authoritarian style. But
17:48
I mean, this goes all the way back to the end of acts seven, where we see Saul introduced
17:53
for the first time. And you know, they laid down their garments at the feet of the young
17:56
man named Saul. That's verse 58. And that's just kind of like that's his movie villain
18:02
entrance, right? Where we first see him. But it's such a pathetic entrance. Like he's
18:06
holding the coats of these guys getting ready to kill Steven and he can't even do it himself.
18:12
He gives them the permission. And he's like, let me hold your cuts. Well, I almost feel
18:15
like so maybe that's it. Well, let's let's kind of open that up because my read of it,
18:19
Ryan is more so like the mafia guy doesn't get his suit dirty. Yep. And so it's like,
18:25
uh, y'all are going to do this for me, but don't worry. I'll hang on to your coats because
18:29
that's, that's where a lot of these mafia guys. It's like they would never perform the murder,
18:33
but they would still go down for it because they're the one that called for it, but they
18:36
got some henchmen to do a form. But I mean, it just depends on the mafia guy. Yes. I mean,
18:40
if you're like Tony Soprano, he like to do things with his own hands sometimes. So when
18:44
you're like, when you're, when you have a right to be vengeful and he believes he has
18:48
the right, just right to do it, you think he would go and do it himself, you know, like
18:52
usually those guys are having somebody else do it because they don't want to come back
18:54
to them because it's illegal, but this was an elite, this was in their eyes a legal kill
18:58
and he still couldn't even do it. Well, I, I kind of feel like it's potentially in response
19:03
to Steven's response to this, everything happening, right? Like here's, here's what we're about
19:08
to do to this guy. And his, his response to it is not what probably most people would
19:13
respond. There's no begging, there's no pleading, there's no groveling. And I think, I think
19:17
that's probably like, like there, there's reason to pause. There's like a mindset shift
19:22
of like, wait, what? Like this guy should be begging right now. And so I, I kind of feel
19:27
like maybe there's a little bit of haziness in Saul at the time. And it's like, uh, no,
19:32
we needn't go ahead and knock this out, but I gotta, I'm a little, I don't know what's
19:36
going on here. Well, I don't think so because the fact is that they look back at Saul for
19:40
permission. Like if I read that correctly, they look back at Saul for permission. Number
19:45
one, I mean, it doesn't say, it doesn't say he does throw anything, doesn't say he doesn't
19:50
throw anything. So he held the coats. He said he held the coats, but at the same time,
19:54
I would also go, all right, if he's, you look at that as like, okay, maybe he's hazy. I'm
20:00
over here going, this dude is stone cold. So let's actually, let's actually read. And
20:04
doesn't say he didn't, he didn't throw the coats. Right. So, so let's, let's go, let's
20:08
go right back to 58. Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him and the witnesses
20:13
laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning
20:18
Stephen, he called out Lord Jesus, received my spirit and falling to his knees. He cried
20:22
out and loud voice, Lord, do not hold this in against him. And he had said, and once
20:25
he had said this, he fell asleep. So it doesn't, I guess he wasn't necessarily holding the
20:30
garments, but they were, they were put down at his feet. And so again, it's kind of, I
20:33
don't want to read something into the text. It's not there, but it's almost like a respect
20:36
thing. I, as you were describing it as y'all two were going back before that was thinking
20:39
about Adolf Hitler. I don't know that Adolf Hitler ever had blood on his own personal
20:43
hands, but he killed six million Jews at the same time. And so that's, that's one of those
20:48
things where, you know, a brown shirt or, or a SS member or something like that, they probably,
20:54
if they were doing the execution in front of Hitler, they would have given him some sort
20:57
of like a acknowledgement of I'm doing this because of, because of your will and direction.
21:04
Well, think about the, think about just the show, show respect that you would lay down
21:08
your coat in front of somebody so that their feet would not be dirty. I mean, you could
21:12
almost look at it like that. Like I'm putting my coat down in front of the, this leader
21:17
in the Sanhedrin who so that he is not unclean by the murder in which we are committing.
21:23
I mean, I can see that, but then I think if you read that, it said a young man. So, you
21:28
know, like how many of these guys are older gentlemen, you know, usually within that, that,
21:33
that the Jewish religion, you, you had more respect for the elders, not for the young
21:37
people.
21:38
Yeah, it does seem like they are looking to him for leadership though. It doesn't seem
21:41
like Saul is a passive actor in this.
21:44
I'm reading Sproul's commentary and Sproul says when he looked at the martyr, if we, when
21:48
we look at the martyrdom of Stephen, Saul of Tarsus was briefly introduced as one who
21:53
gave consent to the murderous act and stood by and held the garments of those who murdered
21:58
Stephen.
21:59
Okay.
22:00
And so that's where I, you know, that's, that's what I'm seeing it as. And then when I read
22:03
that he's younger, you know, I was like, I don't know if he's really that mafia boss.
22:07
That's why I kind of looked at him as like more of a coward.
22:09
Yeah, I don't really see that at all. Even from that scroll commentary, I don't get the
22:13
power. Wow. He's not didn't say it's dirty. That's my thing. But, but again, like they
22:19
look at him for consent, but he's like, yeah, why would they even look to him for consent
22:23
if he was if he was just a young fool that they didn't care for in which would have been
22:27
light would have, which would have been law. So it would have been a sudden familial and
22:31
so he had some level of. And so there would be something like they got the legal go ahead
22:35
to do so.
22:36
So that's, I mean, basically I guess you could say he's a lawyer that said, yeah, this is
22:39
legal. Go ahead and do it.
22:40
When as a Pharisee, it wasn't Pharisees that were doing the stone throwing. And I guess
22:45
it was one of those things like the Pharisees wouldn't dare mess up their, their, their
22:48
garb in order to lower themselves to throw a stone at somebody one blood on you either
22:52
because you would be considered unclean. And that's right. A bunch of other things. So
22:55
that's right. I kind of agree with Winkler on his thing where they were they covered
22:58
his feet. So you wouldn't give blood. Okay. Very good. Well, hey, let's, let's keep this
23:01
wrong. Winkler. If you'll go ahead and read through verse nine. So three through nine.
23:05
Now, as he went on his way, he approached Damascus and suddenly a light from heaven shown around
23:11
him and falling to the ground. He heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you
23:16
persecuting me? And he said, who are you Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
23:24
But rise and enter the city and you will be told what you are to do. The men who were
23:29
traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice, but seeing no one. Saul rose from
23:34
the ground. And although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand
23:39
and brought him into Damascus. And for three days, he was without sight and neither ate
23:44
nor drink. So three days, I'm sure that's just coincidence. But you know, whenever, whenever
23:50
the voice he heard said, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? I mean, this is, this
23:55
is evidence of if you are persecuting Christians, you are persecuting Jesus. And so I don't know
24:02
that I've heard arguments from people that like, Oh, you know, I'm just persecuting
24:06
the Christians. I'm not really persecuting their God because there is no line of delineation.
24:10
And this is one of the things I would support that Christ made themselves synonymous with
24:13
us in the in that quote. I think what's really crazy is like, he says, Saul, Saul. And one
24:19
thing that I read was that there's only 15 times in the Bible that a name was repeated
24:23
twice. You got Abraham. I'm not going to go through all 15, but you got Abraham. Where
24:27
you don't have memorized? I don't have a long time. Yeah, you got in the scroll box.
24:31
It's in the scroll book. It's in the scroll. Or it's on my log us fair enough. We'll just
24:37
make the point. You don't have to say all the one. Okay. But no, it's like, so it's
24:41
really trying to get his attention. You know, it's not just like, Hey, Saul, why are you
24:45
persecuting me? It's like, Saul, Saul, why are you doing this? Like, it's not reading
24:50
it like, Hey, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It's like, he's trying to get his attention.
24:55
He wants him to understand. And then in that term, he makes himself synonymous with Christians.
25:00
He's like, why are you persecuting me? I mean, he's Christ already died and rose from the
25:05
dead. At this point, he's already gone through the persecution. But now his church is being
25:09
persecuted. So he's making himself synonymous with us.
25:13
And also, I see you see in verse five, because you could read verse five. Who are you Lord?
25:19
And say like, wait, wait, did he actually see Christ? But in one of the commentaries, I forgot
25:23
to write down which one, but in 1 Corinthians 9 1, 1 Corinthians 15, 8 Galatians 1 16 and
25:28
Acts 9 27, he basically confirms, no, I saw him. Like, I didn't just hear a voice and
25:33
all that. Like, I saw him. No one else that was with me. So I'm like, I saw him. Like,
25:38
you know, it's very explicitly clear other places, but not really right here in this
25:42
section. Yeah, he says, who are you Lord? And I can't remember which commentary pointed
25:47
it out. It may have been sprull, but he's using like the master tone of a Lord, not like,
25:53
Hey, who are you Lord? Like, yeah, guy with nice rings. You know, it's like, no, who are
25:58
you Lord? Like, I realize this is a supernatural event. You know, and then that's when Christ
26:02
says I'm Jesus. Yeah. He knew it. And I mean, the Greek word here, when they talk about
26:07
the light, the Greek word they're talking about here is not like just a bright light.
26:12
It's similar to lightning. The light was that bright, like lightning would over a light that
26:18
would overpower the sun. It was even brighter than the sun. So if this light is being shown
26:23
to you and there's a voice behind it, yeah, you'd be kind of foolish to be like, all right,
26:28
Lord, what do you want? What's going on here? Usually the people did when there's angels,
26:33
you know, exactly. It's like it's that bright light and they hit the floor. They can't,
26:37
they can't even look at the, the holiness that is, that is Christ in that point, you know,
26:41
and then God sends his messengers in a bright light as well.
26:43
Well, when God shows himself to Moses, it's like, all right, you're going to look between
26:46
these rocks and you're only going to see like my trail, my staying trail that comes behind me,
26:50
but taking whatever you're saying. Well, you know, it's, it's Paul has been, has been committed
26:56
to this terrorism. Yeah. You know, town to town. Hey, I got my, my paperwork's in order and we're
27:02
going to go and he's been doing it because he didn't believe Jesus was real. So like,
27:08
you don't talk about an impactful moment where it's like, I'm Jesus and it's like, oh, crap.
27:16
My bad. Wait, you've been watching the whole time. Jesus comes back, you know,
27:21
that has so many weird context, but no, that's exactly it to where it's just like, wait,
27:26
you've been watching this whole time? Yeah. You've been keeping notes, bro. And, and not only that,
27:30
but like Jesus comes in and he's like, why are you, why are you doing this? It's like, it's like,
27:35
it's evidence that he's taking it massively personally. Oh, yeah. He shows up and so. Hey,
27:39
I got a problem with what, by the way, I'm real and I have a big problem with what you're doing.
27:44
And I knocked you off your stupid donkey too. All right, let's keep Ryan the horn. Let's go 10 through
27:50
19. Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias.
27:58
And he said, here I am Lord. And the Lord said to him, rise and go to the street called straight
28:03
and at a house and at the house of Judas, look for a man of Tarsus named Saul for behold,
28:09
he is praying and he is seen in a vision, a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him
28:16
so that he might regain his sight. But Ananias answered,
28:19
Lord, I have heard from many about this man how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.
28:27
Just 13 or do you want me to go? Just go and read through 19.
28:31
Okay. And there he was. And there he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call your
28:38
name. But the Lord said to him, go for he is, he is a chosen instrument of mine and to carry
28:45
my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel, for I will show him how much
28:51
he must suffer for the sake of my name. So Ananias departed and entered the house and laying his
28:56
hands on him, he said, Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came
29:02
has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. And immediately
29:07
something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized,
29:12
taking food and he was strengthened. All right, very good. So let's talk about Ananias. So Ananias
29:17
was one of the leaders of the Damascus church. So he would have been one of the targets of Saul.
29:21
So as he was coming, coming there, he would have 100% been a target. And, you know, we hear about
29:29
Ananias and Sephira earlier in Acts, we don't talk about Ananias being a hero of the faith
29:36
nearly enough. I kind of feel like Joseph, you know, he gets a bad rap, right? Because he doesn't
29:39
really have a whole lot of lines, you know, in the Bible and all those types of things. And so
29:43
he's he's a minor character. But that guy, you know, staying with Mary and doing all those things and
29:49
listening to the promptings of God, but also in a different way, and perhaps not to the same degree
29:54
as Joseph, like Ananias is one of the unsung heroes of the ministry that began at this moment of Saul
30:01
who would become Paul. I think he's super important. I think he's awesome, but he also questions God.
30:05
So, you know, he's fine. Yeah. I mean, I know, but I'm just saying, like, he's like, here I am Lord,
30:12
which is like, I thought was funny because I was reading Samuel. I read Samuel and God calls out to
30:18
Samuel and he's like, he's hearing him talk, but he has no idea who this is. He's like, I keep hearing
30:23
these voices. He like, keep hearing these voices. He goes, when you hear it again, say, here I am,
30:27
Lord. And that's when he becomes a prophet. And so Ananias is receiving what the Lord is saying
30:33
by here. I am. But then he's like, Hey, you know, this guy tried to kill a bunch of people. You
30:37
sure you want me to go and do this? Like a Jonah moment, you know? And so it's just like, yeah,
30:41
you don't think Christ knows that? So yeah, I mean, I don't I don't blame him for at least.
30:45
Hey, man, you sure? Like, come on, man. Like, so I'm I'm totally fine with the fact that he paused
30:50
for a second, but I mean, I'm totally fine with the two just shows like we can sit there. I think when
30:54
we we've had a couple of podcasts before the one with Matt and everything and we talk about like,
30:59
Oh, man, those guys are stupid. How could they do that? And it's like, how many times have we
31:03
grown? We're stupid. Yeah. How many times have we questioned God? Like, when I see Ananias do that,
31:09
it just reminds me of like, man, I am just the same. But I got to think in Ananias's mindset,
31:14
it's not that he's questioning God, it's almost like he's like reminding God, like, Oh, you must
31:18
have forgotten. This is a bad dude. But even reminding God is like, is no different than like,
31:24
no, just making sure you just trust, but there God, I don't think you know. Maybe you know,
31:30
maybe you know you're omnipotent, but I mean, I don't know. It's because it's it's because it's
31:34
so out of left field, right? Like, because and then God's response is, no, he's my chosen instrument.
31:40
I didn't be like, wait, what saw? Yeah. Well, I mean, who's not the perfect chosen instrument?
31:46
I mean, Jew and Roman, right? He's going out to understand Greek culture who understands all
31:53
this culture. Like, and then he's also the guy that persecuted a bunch of Christians.
31:56
So I get this guy on my side. And with all that, he knows, like, yeah, he's my chosen vessel.
32:01
Yeah. And it's almost like you're flipping flipping the enemy that understands the enemy,
32:06
to a degree. So like when you have, yeah, Jack Barsky on the show, he was a KGB agent, you know,
32:11
spying on the United States. Well, the US, you know, intelligence service flipped him to where he
32:16
became an agent for the United States because he understood to a certain degree, the inner workings
32:20
of the KGB. It's like, all right, well, you've been on both sides of this. So you're gonna understand,
32:24
like, you've been hunting these people for a very long time. So you had to familiarize yourself
32:28
with them. And now it's like, yes, you're, you're a Pharisee of Pharisees. You are a Roman,
32:34
you speak Greek, you can write Greek, you understand Greek culture. Oh, by the way,
32:38
I need you to go spread my word to the Gentiles. Yeah. Yep.
32:41
And it is to me, I mean, I don't know, he's an idiot, even himself, he's a he's a tool for the
32:47
Lord here. And as I'm thinking about, when I was reading through the verses and reading through
32:54
some commentary, to me, it's, it's interesting that Ananias is the one that is chosen because,
32:59
to me, there's nothing that remarkable about Ananias. Like, why would the God not send Peter or
33:05
James or any of the apostles at that point, he sends Ananias something that, you know,
33:13
yes, maybe he's a leader in the church in Damascus, but at the same time, he's unremarkable.
33:18
I mean, there's nothing that stands out about him. And yet that's the tool that is used to convert
33:23
what I would say is maybe the second most influential person in Christianity behind Jesus.
33:30
But does he really convert him other than heal him?
33:33
I'm not, well, I guess I would say I'm not really looking for, I shouldn't say conversion,
33:38
but it is a, well, no, I would say it's a tool of the conversion. He's, I mean,
33:43
yeah, clearly, clearly, he's a tool for the conversion of, of Paul.
33:47
I mean, I, I would say, yeah, I hear you on that. I just, when I think of conversion, I think,
33:51
yeah, Christ did that. We know, we know, Ryan, you don't need to explain it. We freaking know
33:57
for the last two years, we know, we know we're not going there. We're not doing it early. We got
34:02
more time. So hey, Dagan, Dagan, let's hit 19 through 22, sir.
34:08
You mean 19? Yeah, 19 is kind of like, it's kind of weird. Yeah, kind of weird in between.
34:16
And after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples
34:22
in Damascus. At once he began to preach in all synagogues, in the synagogues that Jesus is the
34:28
Son of God, all those who heard him were astonished and asked, isn't he the man who raised havoc
34:33
in Jerusalem among those who call on his name? And hasn't he come here to take them as prisoners
34:39
to the chief priests? Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus
34:45
by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. So I know not, not all of you have really spent as much time
34:51
digging into Christian apologetics. Or if you're listening to this, maybe you haven't dug into a
34:54
lot of apologists and their arguments. But if you're an atheist, how do you explain Acts 9 20?
35:00
How do you explain it? Right. Because you go from a guy who is basically
35:05
at the upper echelons of society, doing something that he deems as righteous,
35:11
he completely flips to the other team, right? And immediately starts proselytizing for that team.
35:18
It's a beautiful moment. This is this is okay. I think the closest we could do in modern history
35:23
here, think about after like think about 9/11. Okay. And this would be like Osama bin Laden
35:30
flies in on a bald eagle with a American flag draped across his, across his back and he's
35:38
singing the national anthem and just talking about how much he loves America. That's the level of
35:43
you know, the opposite end here. Because if that happened, we would all be like, what in the heck
35:49
is going on? Which also puts Paul in a pretty unique position here, because he's got the Jews
35:54
who were like, well, I thought you were my guy, right? Yeah, I thought you were coming here
35:58
clean house and he's over here. No, you're, you're, you're siding with this other group.
36:02
And yet the other groups like, I am terrified of this guy. I want nothing to do with him.
36:07
Keep me away from him. But yet he's saying all the things that we believe.
36:11
Well, there are a lot of people out there that don't feel worthy, right? They are living lives
36:17
that they feel like that that they're too far gone that no one would forgive this. I'm not
36:22
lovable. I'm not, I'm not even likable. I don't even like myself. And this is just what a great
36:27
picture of what you can't be too far that Jesus won't come get you. And oh, by the way, not only
36:33
will he come get you, he will use you. Yeah. Like, so, so, you know, it's this conversion story is is
36:40
really, man, it's impactful because it's for everyone. It still blows my mind that he was going
36:45
there to kill Christians. Yeah, that's why we don't go with nearly enough. Yeah, he was going
36:51
there to actually kill Christians. And the next thing you know, when he's in Damascus in the square,
36:56
instead of rounding them up, he's preaching the gospel. Well, and also, so let's go back to the,
37:01
you know, Osama bin Laden with an American flag turban, all of a sudden, like, let's just, but like,
37:05
it's rough, man. Right. But I was like, I'm thinking Alfred Pujol some cubsters.
37:08
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you say Alfred Pujol's Alfred? I don't think I said Alfred. I think
37:21
I said Alfred. Yeah. Alfred Pujol's. So Alfred Pujol's. So Alfred, so Alfred Pujol. So he works,
37:27
he works for Bruce Banner, and then Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, I did it. You get it wrong too.
37:33
Bruce Banner. It's a Bruce Bruce Banner's a hole. The hole. That's more of a hole. That's
37:38
my favorite superhero. I thought your favorite superhero was Thor because you have a crush on him.
37:42
No, I mean, I'm not gay, but I would do unspeakable things to Chris Hemsworth. But my favorite superhero
37:47
is the incredible Hulk. Man, we're God, Ryan. We need to pray for each other. Can we stop and
37:52
lay hands on Ryan and I both? Because neither one of us can be trusted. But, so Osama bin Laden
37:56
flying in on the bald eagle. A bald eagle. He's got the, you know, American flag turban,
38:00
all that the, you know, the, you know, the Ric Flair Woo t-shirt, all that. How many of us
38:05
would take that seriously? Like, how many of us would be like, no, no, no, you're not, you're not
38:11
in how many of us, how many of us took Kanye's conversion? Seriously. Right. That's my question.
38:16
I'm ashamed to admit. Hey, hey, I wanted to believe we weren't friends yet. So I've got
38:22
discernment. Hey, I did record. I did record an episode because people are like, dude, I need you
38:26
to, you know, this Jesus is King album. We need your response to blah, blah. I think I remember
38:30
at the very end, I was like, I'm very hopeful, but also skeptical, like I'm with hope. But like,
38:34
let's, let's not automatically start crapping on the guys because all the Theo bro guys, like,
38:39
like when Kat Von D became a Christian, it's like, well, actually, she didn't describe baptism in
38:43
the right blah, blah, blah. So it's like, can we stop crapping on the girl? She became a Christian
38:47
17 seconds ago. Right. Can we let her get her, take some time to get her, get her language?
38:51
Yeah. It's like we've talked about before where it's like, oh, yeah, I chose Jesus. And it's like,
38:56
don't be the Theo bro. That's going to be like, no, Jesus chose you. Well, and the same thing as
39:00
well, like when I've talked with, uh, with Joby before, because, you know, he'll, I see this all
39:05
time. So church 1122 or Joby will post, um, they did beach baptism earlier this year. And it was
39:11
like, I forget what the number was, but like 1400, you know, something it's like 1400 and
39:15
24. So it's a very specific number. And you'll have people like, uh, how could you actually know
39:19
that? How do you know that it wasn't just people going to the water so that they get their picture
39:23
taken? Like how do you know that? It's like, well, we're going to count people that make a public
39:29
declaration of their faith. And we'll let God deal with the details. How about you? Shut your
39:33
freaking mouth. He doesn't add that part. I had, I had that part of the, we'll go over that in
39:37
chapter 11. I think that's a chapter 11 is going to be like a really good thing for us to go over,
39:41
like kind of the legalist aspect of, of conversion in Christianity. But like, I think the same thing
39:46
happened to Russell brand, you know, they're like, yeah, he's getting squirated right now. It's
39:50
like, why? What's wrong with you? I'm just like, Hey, man, just be excited. I'm excited for anybody.
39:55
Kanye got baptized. I was excited for him. Was I skeptical? Yeah, I was a little skeptical,
39:58
but I wasn't going to say anything. I just sit quietly and let the God do his work.
40:02
How quick we all become Pharisees ourselves as we have studied the word for years and years and
40:09
understand our theology better than, you know, probably 90% of America or, you know, the Christian
40:17
faith. I mean, it's like, we understand this very, very well, and you don't get it because you're
40:23
brand new. I mean, to me, it'd be like, it's no different than I graduated college and I'm judging
40:28
a kindergartener on how much they don't know. Well, you brought up, you brought up Russell
40:32
Bran Ryan a couple of months ago. He posted a picture of mere Christianity on his desk,
40:39
and he said, Hey, who would like to read mere Christianity with me? And the comments were just
40:43
like, did you know, see his thoughts? Did you actually believe this argument? Well,
40:48
what about that bubble? It's like, okay, Russell brand not that long ago came out as a Christian,
40:53
and he's digging into a somewhat difficult book. That is that is a, that can be a very dense book,
40:59
depending upon how you read it. This is more old English writing, you know, early 20th century
41:03
writing. It's not always the most easy to comprehend. He's a smart guy. But what did you say, Ryan,
41:08
like walk with him? Yeah, let's just walk, let him walk a little bit. And so it's like, yeah,
41:12
hey, I'll read that with you, man, like that's a very, very impactful book. And let's hope it,
41:15
you know, helps further your sanctification. We're always going to question. I did,
41:19
if you hear a Christian say that they don't question, they're lying, because we all question,
41:23
and we're all learning like if once we stop trying to learn and think that we know everything,
41:27
we've lost it. Yeah, for sure. Let's keep this ball rolling in acts nine. We're back to Winkler.
41:33
So let's go 23 through 31.
41:35
When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, but their plot became known to
41:41
Saul. They were watching the gates day and night in order to kill him, but his disciples took him
41:45
by night and let him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. And when he
41:51
had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples, and they were all afraid of him,
41:55
for they did not believe that he was a disciple. But Barnumus took him and brought him to the
42:01
apostles and declared to them how on the road, he had seen the Lord who spoke to him and how it
42:07
Damascus, he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus. So he went in and out among them at
42:13
Jerusalem preaching boldly in the name of the Lord. And he spoke and disputed against the Hellenist,
42:19
but they were seeking to kill him. And when the brothers learned this, they brought him down to
42:24
Caesarea and sent him off to Tarsus. So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had
42:30
peace and was being built up and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy
42:35
Spirit, it multiplied. So at the end of that section, I mean, we're likely talking about hundreds of
42:41
small ekklesias, hundreds of like small like gatherings of churches. But one thing that the
42:47
MacArthur commentary pointed out is like one through 31. So versus one through 31 of Acts nine.
42:53
This is several years. Now, when you're reading it, this again, why tell people like, I like things
42:59
like the chosen that can kind of help slow these stories down a little bit. Like this may take you
43:03
two minutes to read, but this was years and years and years of life change and behavioral change
43:11
and growth and sanctification, just to get to where we are at this point. When we did Galatians,
43:16
remember when he was trying to make his case on who he was, and he talked about being in the desert
43:20
learning from Christ for like three years, right? Like this is that time, because even I was like,
43:25
man, how do you jump from this to this? Like, where was that three or gap? Well, and so I'll bring this
43:29
up and I'm doing this, perhaps at the the peril of like sending us off way off into left field here.
43:34
But you know, I do try to to steal man the other side of, you know, people that are opposite me.
43:41
So, you know, one of the things that has made my abortion talk so strong is because I don't
43:47
is because I take the arguments of pro abortion people seriously. A lot of them are foolish,
43:51
and most of them are immoral and evil. But I take them seriously, because I don't want to knock down
43:57
the worst versions of their arguments. I want to take all of their best ones.
44:01
And so when I do that presentation, I take the top 18 draft picks and I destroy them
44:06
systematically one by one. If I were steel manning the other side, it's like, okay,
44:13
Paul, shrewd operator, you know, political guy, he understands multiple different cultures.
44:19
He could see the ground swell. He could see that this Christianity thing was starting to gain
44:24
some popularity. And, you know, he wanted to make sure he was on the right side. It's kind of like
44:29
guys that are supporting one candidate until the other candidate starts getting up in the polls.
44:32
And now he's appearing at a, you know, rallies with this guy. And so he goes, he goes dark for a while.
44:38
And the thing is, is if he goes dark and the Christianity thing falters, he's still a Pharisee,
44:42
still a Roman and still understands Greek. So he'll still be able to have his standing.
44:46
Or if this Christianity thing continues to grow in popularity, then he can come out team Christian.
44:52
So again, I'm, I'm trying to steal man what somebody might argue as a false conversion.
44:59
The problem is one third of the New Testament that Paul wrote. The, the problem is, is that
45:05
people don't die for something that they know not to be true. People die for stuff they think
45:11
is true all the time, but people don't choose to die willingly for something that they know is not
45:17
true. That's not really something that happens. They also, I mean, to be honest,
45:21
they fundamentally don't understand Paul at all. Yeah, the kind of person that he was.
45:26
I mean, this is a well educated member of the Sanhedrin. He had been placed there from Tarsus.
45:37
His family was prestigious in Tarsus. This was, he had a lot to lose by doing what he did.
45:46
Even if the, even if you actually go back to, well, Christianity flames out, he's not going
45:53
to be welcomed back because he's been preaching against every, and he wouldn't go back. He wouldn't
45:58
go back. I mean, he looked at Christians no different than when Moses looked at them,
46:04
worshiping the golden calf at the base of Mount Sinai. He's looking at him the exact same way.
46:10
That's how he, I mean, they fought. The Sanhedrin was fighting consistently against the secularization
46:17
and idol worship of the Jews. And they, they, they took that seriously.
46:22
I kind of reminds me of the chosen, when you watch Matthew's story and Matthew is like a tax
46:27
collector. Yeah, he's hated, but he's got all the money. He's got everything that he needs,
46:31
and he gives it all up to follow Christ. Right. And like Saul goes a step further, like you said,
46:36
like he was a part of a big block of like Jewish culture. And to give that up was giving up more
46:43
than what Matthew did. You know, he was giving up prestige. He was giving up money. He was giving
46:48
up headship. He was giving up a lot of things. And so to go in there and just try to be like,
46:52
you know what, I want to see, I want to sit here and straddle the fence and see what
46:56
what happens. He wouldn't have had the chance to do that. He's either in or he's out,
46:59
because if he goes out for a little bit, he's out. I mean, they'll stone him to begin with.
47:04
So all right, well, let's keep the ball rolling. Ryan, if you will do 32. Can I just point out
47:10
one thing, please real quick, I just think it's crazy to think like when he says, and when he had
47:15
come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples, and they were all afraid of him for he did,
47:20
they did not believe he was a disciple. And but Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles,
47:25
like, like his rep, his reputation precedes him. And like people are like, I don't know about this
47:30
guy, but Barnabas saw something like God opened Barnabas's eyes towards saw that he brought him
47:36
to the apostles. Like, I think that's something we overlook is that, you know, it's like when
47:41
we're talking about a Russell brand or we're talking about, you know, somebody else, like,
47:45
who could come to the conversion? We're like, well, they did this stuff in their past, like,
47:48
I can't trust them. But who knows what God's going to do? And Barnabas saw what Christ was doing,
47:53
and he brought him to the apostles. I thought that was just amazing thing to look at.
47:57
Yeah, I mean, Barnabas is an advocate. And so I don't know how many times in your life you
48:01
needed an advocate or you had one. I'm reminded of the story that's described in Fearless, where
48:09
you know, the the main focus of that Adam Brown, he was a drug addict, he had a he had a record,
48:16
he didn't have what it took to just pass the basic
48:23
entrance to get into the Navy, much less to eventually become a Navy Seal, much less to join
48:28
Seal Team six development group. And he had a guy that was an advocate for him. He had a higher
48:32
up in the Navy that basically said, I will move heaven and earth and I will sign whatever things
48:37
I need to sign to ensure that I am able to get you into the Navy, because this is going to save
48:43
your life. And I think you're going to be fantastic. So having that advocate is such an important
48:47
thing. So good on Barnabas for noticing whatever it is that he noticed to bring him into the fold.
48:52
Well, and Paul had advocates all along the way, right? So on the road to Damascus,
48:55
he hadn't been traveling with them. So without them, he's blind, he wouldn't get to Ananias.
49:00
And then he gets to Damascus and Ananias is his advocate. You know, God comes to him,
49:04
he puts his hands on his eyes and you look back in verse 17 and Ananias refers to him as brother
49:09
Saul. You might just be like, that's the first words he says to him and he calls him brother,
49:14
right? And then it's the believers that rescue him and get him out of the city because people
49:18
are coming to murder him and then Barnabas being that advocate to the disciples, right? To be
49:24
in like so all along the way, God provided the right people to be that advocate for him.
49:29
Absolutely. All right, Ryan, do 32 just through 35. Okay.
49:33
Now, as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who had lived in
49:40
light of there. He found a man named Ananias bedridden for eight years who was paralyzed.
49:46
And Peter said to him, Ananias, Jesus Christ heals you,
49:49
rides up and make your bed. And immediately he rose and all the residents in light of
49:55
and Sharon saw him and they turned to the Lord. So I guess Peter is Jordan Peterson,
50:00
like he's just screaming at people, telling them to make their beds. You know,
50:04
it's important here that Peter is, you know, saying, Hey, Jesus Christ heals you, Tommy,
50:08
like this, this isn't about me. But the other thing that I think with Ananias here is he was
50:14
very, very likely alive at the time of this writing. And so I like when we see examples
50:19
in the scripture of these stories. So when people are like, Oh, these are just tall tales,
50:23
like these are just things that were fables and written, you know, years and years and years after,
50:27
you know, none of these people were alive. It's like, no, when this was written down,
50:32
the eyewitnesses that saw the risen Christ, the 500 eyewitnesses, a lot of them would have
50:36
still been alive. Ananias would likely have still been alive as well. So it would have been like,
50:39
Oh yeah, I was totally sitting there on that dirty mat paralyzed. And then Peter's like,
50:43
not in the name of Jesus Christ. Get your butt up and clean your bed.
50:45
Well, that's, that's the funny part when he tells them to make his bed. I mean,
50:48
we joke about Jordan Peterson, but like that's guy lived on his bed. Yeah, he never went anywhere.
50:53
And so to be able to be told to get up and make your bed means that you're not living there anymore,
50:57
man, you're, you're in a new creation now. Yeah, awesome.
51:00
And I also look at this as ananias is basically a good little microcosm of what it means in our
51:10
conversion, because he's healed. He's on shackle. And then what's the first thing he, it's like,
51:16
and make your bed. Yeah. Okay. So I think we all get real comfortable. I'm to read Matthew 11 28
51:25
real quick, come to me all who labor and who are heavy laden and I will give you rest. We are all
51:31
very comfortable with that version. But then the very next command generally is now go.
51:39
Right. And or make your bed. You have work to do. That's the sanctification process.
51:45
So justification is step one. Step two is sanctification. It's time to get to work.
51:52
Yeah. This is an insight into Peter's OCD, right? He's like, bro, get up and make your bed.
51:57
He's your new creation, man. You, you know, it's, it's a perfect thing to show like what happens
52:04
when we are converted to Christianity. And when we, you know, God opens our eyes to the gospel and
52:09
we realize it and we see it like we are in new creation. We, we go out and we go, but it's like,
52:14
make your bed, man. Like you're, you're gonna, you got to go and do this. One another element to
52:18
this that just came to mind is, Hey, you can make your bed now. So now that is an expectation,
52:24
which some people say, Oh, come on, dad, I don't want to make my bed. It's like,
52:27
can you imagine if you couldn't, like that was not something that you would necessarily,
52:31
like you could not get up and make your bed. That was not a possible thing. And then all of a sudden
52:37
you're healed. And that's the first thing you're told to do. And it's like, I get to do this. Like,
52:42
this is amazing. I think I told this on the show before like a year ago, this time, I thought my
52:47
career as a speaker was over. Right. You know, I had two vocal court surgeries in between surgeries.
52:52
I couldn't talk above a whisper. It's like, what jobs can you do where you don't have to talk?
52:56
And then I remember being angry that I had to repeat myself to somebody one time and I was like,
53:01
I can't believe they didn't hear me. I'm like, wait a minute, they can hear me. Like,
53:05
I had to repeat myself. And I'm capable of it. Like this is a tremendous, tremendous blessing.
53:10
So now let's go ahead and wrap up acts nine with the most unfortunate of all names in the Bible.
53:16
Let's hear about Dorcas. So Dorcas means gazelle. I mean, that's pretty awesome. But the name's
53:21
still Dorcas. And so like, you know, they had a rough time in middle school here in the morning.
53:26
If it's Greek or if it's the Hebrew version, because that was to use Tabitha. So I wonder,
53:31
that makes me wonder. No matter what, maybe it's not a hard C, maybe it's Dorsass.
53:35
Dorsass. That sounds like something I want to put on my sandwich. But
53:38
I am okay. Two minutes, no talking. All right. All right. Let's go dig and let's read 36 through
53:47
the end of acts nine. In Japa, there was a disciple named Tabitha. In Greek, her name was Dorsass.
53:55
Well done. She was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time, she became sick and
54:01
died. And her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Litta was near Japa. So when the
54:07
disciples heard that Peter was in Litta, they sent two men to him and urged him, please come at once.
54:14
Peter went with them. And when he arrived, he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows
54:19
stood around him crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorsass had made while
54:25
she was still with them. Peter sent them all out of the room. Then he got down on his knees and prayed.
54:30
Turning toward the dead woman, he said, Tabitha, get up. She opened her eyes and seeing Peter,
54:37
she sat up. He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called for the believers,
54:43
especially the widows and presented her to them alive. This became known all over Japa.
54:48
And many people believed in the Lord. Peter stayed in Japa for some time with a Tanner named Simon.
54:54
All right. Well, Tanner named Simon. He's made his appearance on the scene here, but let's go
54:58
to verse 41. My version of the ESV says, and he gave her his hand and raised her up. The word
55:04
that's used here to describe the raising of her is the same exact word to use to describe Jesus'
55:10
resurrection. And again, when you talk about the Hebrew language or the Greek language or
55:15
the ancient Galilean Aramaic, that would have been used at this time. Their words were so much
55:21
more descriptive and words were not used by accident. And so it's like, I'm trying to remember the voice
55:28
that Jesus said when he was telling Lazarus to come out of the tomb, it was the same word used
55:32
to describe the storm that almost sunk the disciples' boat. And it's like, just think about that.
55:37
The same exact word to describe a storm where these people that spent their lives on the sea
55:42
thought, this is it. We're not going to make it is the same as the voice that Jesus. So he was like
55:46
Lazarus. If it's okay, if it's not going to be bothersome to you. And if you know, I don't want to,
55:50
you know, hurt your lived experience or anything like that. But if you would mind not being dead
55:54
anymore and getting out, that would be great. Like no, like it was the same word used like the
55:59
amount of force. And so the fact that the same word is used to describe what happened with
56:03
yeah, Dorsass and Jesus' resurrection, I think that that's that's really incredible.
56:08
Yeah, I sprull actually mentions in his commentary that when he talks about giving
56:13
when Peter gave her his hand, that it was actually more of almost like an act of chivalry. Yeah,
56:19
that like this was a woman of honor because she had been faithfully serving the Lord
56:23
and that he gives her his hand in order not to aid in getting her out and getting her up. I mean,
56:31
she's been, you know, she's been brought back to life by the Lord. So it's more of a here's my hand
56:38
as a place of to honor you as you take these first steps after, you know, being, I guess,
56:45
undead. I don't know. I think it's pretty amazing to look at who Dorkus is or Tabitha is.
56:51
All the widows stood beside him weeping and showing tunics and other garments that Dorkus
56:57
made while she was with them. Like she was taking care of widows. Like she was, she was being the
57:02
hands and feet of Jesus. And I think that's something that we lose sight of them or, you know,
57:07
she's being raised from the dead. That's a pretty amazing fact. But Dorkus is pretty amazing
57:12
on her own before she died, you know, like she was a hands and feet of Jesus. And these people
57:16
were weeping her death and they were showing Peter like, look what she's done for us. And who
57:20
knows how many of those widows weren't converts to Christianity. What if they were just Jewish
57:24
people she was helping, you know, and now they become Christians when they see this miraculous
57:29
thing happen. I think there's another thing here with Peter. Dude is all sorts of unclean
57:35
related to the Jewish faith right now. He's going to get even more.
57:38
Yeah. And it's going to get it's going to get worse before it gets better. But he's all sorts of
57:43
unclean. He's hanging out with a dead body and bringing it back to life. But then you also have
57:48
the fact that he's going to go stay with Simon, a Tanner who is a butcher of animals around
57:53
carcasses. Yeah, it's for all the time. So Peter's just basking an uncleanliness right now.
57:58
Yeah, he's diving in, but he's going to talk about eating kosher. No, not anymore. Not right now,
58:04
but guys, there's certainly more we could talk about with acts nine, but we are going to leave
58:07
it there. But everyone come back here next week where we are going to dig into acts 10. So make
58:11
sure you were read all the way up through acts 10. But before that you go, we are going to do a
58:15
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