THE FORGING TABLE | Acts 7 feat. MATT CHANDLER (Ep. 630)

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0:30 [Music]

0:50 This is Undaunted Life A Man's Podcast.

0:53 I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.

0:56 Welcome back to The Forging Table.

0:58 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges,

1:02 spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.

1:04 At The Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience

1:07 by digging into God's Word.

1:08 We're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.

1:10 A couple of OGs in the room today.

1:12 We've got Eric Browning and Matt.

1:14 I don't know how I'm going to refer to you today because if I refer to Matt,

1:16 it's going to be a little bit of an issue because you're right next to Matt Chandler.

1:18 So what would you suggest that I do?

1:20 Want me to call you by your middle name or something like that?

1:22 I mean, you could just call me your ass bar.

1:24 Okay, grass bar.

1:25 G-man.

1:25 Grass.

1:26 G-man works.

1:27 G-man.

1:27 G-man, I'm not going to do that.

1:29 I would not be confused by that.

1:32 Okay, because I've been calling you, Chandler, and you, Matt,

1:34 but then I've just been referring to you both as Matt since you got here.

1:37 So we'll just going to work our way through it as we work our way through Act 7.

1:41 And guys, I've been very excited to dig into Act 7.

1:43 I mean, last week, we kind of teed it up as this is Stephen's speech.

1:48 And these are the last recorded words that we have from him before spoiler alert.

1:52 He gets killed at the end of this chapter.

1:54 So we'll certainly get there.

1:55 Yeah, sorry to anybody who was not paying attention to me telling you

1:58 to read through Act 7, just ruin the end of the movie.

2:01 But if you look for something, I'll put in the same context I did last week.

2:06 For a guy that did not grow up in church,

2:08 there are some Old Testament things that aren't just like old hat for me.

2:12 They're not just quick reference, didn't go to VBS, didn't go to a Wanna,

2:16 didn't have a kid's Bible.

2:17 And so I'm learning a lot of those things as an adult.

2:20 I'm trying to ingrain the narrative of the Old Testament into my brain.

2:24 And this is kind of like a highlight reel or like a mixtape of like all those great things.

2:28 And so I don't want to belabor it any further.

2:30 So what we're going to do is we're just going to start working our way

2:32 through Stephen's speech.

2:33 So Matt Grassmeyer, sorry.

2:35 Messed that right from the beginning.

2:36 We're not going to fail.

2:37 I'm sorry, Joby.

2:38 Don't tell Terry.

2:39 Here we go.

2:39 Let's go Act 7 versus one through eight.

2:42 And the High Priest said, are these things so?

2:46 And Stephen said, brothers and fathers hear me.

2:48 The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia.

2:53 Before he lived in Huron and said to him, go out from your land and from your kindred

2:58 and go into the land that I will show you.

3:00 Then he went out from the land of the Chaldeans and lived in Huron.

3:03 And after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living.

3:09 Yet he gave him no inheritance in it, not even a foot's length.

3:13 But promise to give it to him as a possession and his offspring after him,

3:18 though he had no child.

3:19 And God spoke to this effect that his offspring would be surgeonors in a land belonging to others

3:27 who would enslave them and afflict them 400 years.

3:31 But I will judge the nation that they serve said God.

3:34 And after that, they shall come out and worship me in this place.

3:38 And he gave him the covenant of the circumcision.

3:41 And so Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day.

3:46 And Isaac became the father of Jacob.

3:49 And Jacob of the 12 patriarchs.

3:51 So we'll probably be appropriate with all this and we don't normally like default,

3:54 but obviously you've spent a lot of time in these texts, Matt, and you've kind of gone through

3:59 and preached a lot of these things.

4:00 And so we're going to read some sections today and we'll kind of figure out how this goes for

4:04 those of you listening or watching along.

4:05 And then we're just going to kind of default to you here to kind of bring some nuggets out as we

4:10 also go through our notes.

4:11 So in that first section there, just go ahead, hit it.

4:13 Well, what he's doing is I think a thing that anyone listening right now who's evangelical in 2024

4:20 needs to realize and understand when they read their Bible, which is the Bible is one story,

4:28 not 66 different stories.

4:29 And so there's a the amount of unity in the scripture is what is what one of the things

4:37 that we looked at to go, yeah, this book is divine.

4:39 It is not it's written over a period of 1500 years by 40 different men plus with three different

4:48 languages and they're all telling the same story.

4:51 Now, this is important because you'll get into some of these Old Testament passages

4:55 and they will not make sense if you don't put them in the story.

4:59 And so Stephen's doing an exceptional job by starting off reminding them that God has been

5:05 with them since the beginning, he's highlighting God's presence in his people's lives.

5:10 And he's starting with where it started with Abraham, where Abraham was.

5:14 He's reminding them that they were not a people until God made them a people.

5:20 So it's hard for us.

5:20 Maybe it's not if you live someplace like New York or some major city that has a large kind of

5:25 Hasidic Jewish population.

5:27 But this was a people with an immense amount of pride in both keeping the law and how the law

5:33 made them different than everybody around them.

5:35 Even this group of people that's listening to these sermons, they're like the alphas

5:40 of this belief system.

5:41 They are different than the nations.

5:44 They are better than the nations in the God, the only God, the true God in a very polytheistic

5:52 environment, the one true God has chosen them.

5:56 And so he starts this brilliant preaching because he starts with what they already believe

6:01 and know, and he takes them right back to the beginning.

6:04 That the God of glory, he's setting God in contrast to all the other little g-gods.

6:10 Like these guys are amening this sermon at this point as he reminds them where they're from.

6:16 We're different than the nations.

6:17 God came to us.

6:19 God made us his people.

6:21 And God gave us this land.

6:24 And that's his argumentation in this first block.

6:27 He's, I mean, just kind of like detailed stuff that he's pointing out.

6:32 He's quoting Genesis's number here, not Exodus's number here.

6:37 So Exodus, what we read in Exodus, the people of God were in, they were enslaved for 430 years.

6:44 That's what we read in Exodus when they're coming out, they're 430 years in.

6:47 But God tells Abraham that it'll be 400 years.

6:52 So this whole sermon's going to follow the Septuagint, the Hebrew scripture's written in Greek.

7:00 And he's coming big numbers.

7:02 He's staying up high throughout this whole sermon, or he's going to do that.

7:05 And he's trying to lay the foundation at the beginning that he knows they agree with.

7:10 He has not taken any shots at this point.

7:14 And so is he using that as a rhetorical device because of the time period where these types of

7:20 sermons would be more well accepted if you did that?

7:23 I think even sermons now are well received if you start to where everybody is and then

7:29 work your way to the point of confrontation.

7:32 And so Paul does this in, I mean, you'll, you'll cover this, I don't know, in several more weeks,

7:38 when you're up in, you know, Paul's in Athens.

7:40 And where does he begin?

7:42 Hey, I noticed that you were a very religious people.

7:45 I spent time walking around your city and I saw an altar to the unknown God.

7:50 Would you, would you perceive an ignorance?

7:53 I know.

7:53 So he's like, Hey, I saw this guy.

7:55 Let me tell you about him.

7:57 So he's not now he's going to, he's going to [inaudible] everybody off there too.

8:00 But, but this is just good preaching.

8:04 Good preaching just begins with let's agree upon some things up front here.

8:09 And then let me show you how God fulfills in fullness what you've built on.

8:14 And that, that's the whole first section of the, not a single person in this room

8:17 is frustrated at this moment.

8:19 They're actually like, Oh, wait, maybe this guy is legit.

8:22 Right.

8:23 So you don't, you don't think they really came into this speech with,

8:25 with the level of animosity that they knew where this was going, that they, that they,

8:30 I mean, I get the sense that they probably had in mind that this doesn't go our way.

8:35 Like it's going to go crazy.

8:36 But I feel like it got just out of hand at the, at the end as we get to the end of this chapter.

8:41 And there was just like a lot of people operating on kind of like mob justice logic.

8:45 There's no quick, well, define mom justice.

8:48 That's a new one for me.

8:49 Mob justice mob.

8:50 I thought you said mom justice.

8:51 Mom, mom, mom.

8:52 Some of you got good words.

8:53 Dad dismissed the justice.

8:55 I think mom justice might be worse than mob justice.

8:58 But yeah, talking about more like mob justice to where it's like,

9:00 Hey, this wasn't the plan.

9:02 Cause if that was a plan, they probably don't even let him open his mouth.

9:04 It might even be, it might even be that he was, he so effectively set them up that when it

9:13 finally dropped, they were filled with rage because I'm, I'm just saying at this point,

9:19 there's nothing but amens coming from the crowd.

9:21 Like they're, they're, they might even be a little disoriented.

9:24 I don't know.

9:24 Maybe this guy isn't as guilty as we thought.

9:26 Maybe that's kind of, that's kind of what I got out of that to you.

9:29 Right.

9:29 It wasn't, you know, it's this, like it always is, it's a small group of people according to

9:34 the text that are creating these lies that are kind of whipping people into a frenzy.

9:40 And now he's got an audience of elite.

9:42 And he's starting with stuff that they would just heartily agree to.

9:47 You see this strategy is not because he could ease.

9:50 I was just reading the end of six.

9:52 You could easily be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you know, and start defending himself.

9:55 Yeah, you got it all wrong.

9:56 Right.

9:56 It's not, it's not.

9:57 I didn't say that or else, you know, it wasn't anything like that.

10:00 It was immediately, he had a different, a wholly different strategy.

10:03 It was to defend the truth and to appeal to their mind and their history and their heritage

10:09 and the move forward.

10:09 And he could have, he could have just right out of the gate and like,

10:13 you killed him just like our fathers did trust the prophets.

10:16 Just like he could have started there, but he didn't start there.

10:18 He, he's legitimately trying to win them.

10:23 Yeah.

10:23 So then he can then say there is no excuse, you know, you know, there's no excuse.

10:28 No, it's like, I have disabuse you of this previous notion.

10:30 That's right.

10:31 Let's move forward.

10:32 So Eric, I'm going to draw out me teeing you up so that you can get a sip of that delicious

10:37 jocko hydrate because now I need you to move on to verses nine through 16.

10:43 This is probably one of my favorite portions of, of his speech here.

10:46 And I'll say why here in a second, but go and hit it.

10:49 And the patriarchs, jealous of Joseph, sold him into Egypt, but God was with him

10:54 and rescued him out of all his afflictions and gave him favor and wisdom before Pharaoh.

10:59 King of Egypt, who made him ruler over Egypt and over the house, over his household.

11:05 Now there came a famine throughout all Egypt and Canaan in great affliction,

11:09 and our fathers could not find food.

11:11 But when Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent out our fathers on their first visit.

11:19 And on the second visit, Joseph made known himself, made himself known to his brothers,

11:24 and Joseph's family became known to Pharaoh.

11:26 And Joseph sent and summoned Jacob, his father, and all his kindred, 75 persons in all.

11:33 And Jacob went down into Egypt and he died.

11:36 He and our fathers, and they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had

11:41 bought for a sum of silver for the sons of Hamor and Shechem.

11:46 So for this entire chapter, I feel like.

11:49 Is that our first phone call or the history of the forging table, Eric?

11:55 I totally try to turn it on.

11:57 Goodness gracious.

11:58 That's an interesting ringtone.

12:00 That one is that's personalized.

12:04 And I know that's my wife when it comes on, and it's extremely obnoxious and loud.

12:09 Has nothing to do with her personality.

12:10 I'm just going to say, okay, can you let your daddy's working?

12:13 Like because I know that's how y'all talk.

12:17 Daddy's working, baby.

12:18 That's better than me.

12:19 That's like 10 star jimies.

12:20 Yeah, that's like a sorry, Joby branding on that.

12:25 Probably should take some slashes.

12:27 It's all good.

12:28 So yeah, we won't give you your 39 lashes.

12:30 I wish you finished reading.

12:31 Yeah, that's true.

12:32 Yeah, you had fast reading.

12:33 So good time, Mrs. Browning.

12:34 But I loved the way the moody commentary helped me understand the narrative of chapter seven.

12:41 One quick thing from the moody commentary, and then I'll tee you up, Matt,

12:45 is so Stephen with this story, we can't know this, but that he might be hitting the fact that

12:52 Joseph wasn't recognized by his brothers until he came for a second time.

12:56 That's right.

12:57 And then much like how Jesus won't be recognized as the ruler of Israel until he comes back a

13:02 second time.

13:02 Yeah.

13:02 And I never considered that.

13:04 How many times have I heard the story of Joseph and never attached it right from the beginning

13:09 to the story of Jesus and to the overall narrative of the Bible?

13:11 Yeah, so much foreshadowing.

13:12 Yeah.

13:12 Yeah, and he's now we're getting into his first little dig of this sermon because the

13:19 patriarchs, right?

13:20 Joseph's brother.

13:21 These are the patriarchs of Israel.

13:25 We're jealous of Joseph.

13:30 That's the story.

13:30 That's the story they knew.

13:31 So now he's got his first little dig.

13:34 You know, now he's being the one accused.

13:37 And what were the Sadducees from last week?

13:40 What was their motivation?

13:42 Jealousy at the crowds that had gathered at that.

13:46 So he's now putting himself in, in a way, for the first time, making a little dig that,

13:55 hey, this is we've been here before.

13:57 We've been here before, like Joseph and like this had to come back a second time.

14:04 He's beginning to now use, it's Judo, man, he's using their story now to begin to put pressure

14:16 on what they're doing in this exact moment.

14:18 Yeah, I mean, it's an important thing that, again, missing out on the Old Testament stories,

14:24 I'm so trying to get into the details because the details aren't old hat that I missed narrative

14:30 because sometimes it's kind of hard to pull yourself away from the details of a tour to see

14:33 the arc.

14:34 And so I'm really bad about watching movies.

14:36 And then I'll go to IMDB later and then you have the section that says plot holes

14:40 or problems with plot.

14:42 And I'm like, I didn't see any of these because I was so ingrained in what was happening

14:46 like in that exact moment and like how rough that would be.

14:49 Any other commentary from you guys on 9 through 16 or we can keep plugging along.

14:53 All right, let's hit it.

14:54 Mr. Grassmeyer, if you will hit 17 through 29.

15:01 As the time of the promise drew near which God had granted to Abraham,

15:05 the people increased and multiplied in Egypt until they're arose over Egypt,

15:09 another king who did not know Joseph.

15:11 He dealt shrewdly with our race and forced our fathers to expose their infants so that

15:17 they would not be kept alive.

15:19 At this time, Moses was born and he was beautiful in God's sight.

15:23 And he was brought up for three months in his father's house.

15:26 And when he was exposed, Pharaoh's daughter adopted him and brought him up as her own son.

15:31 And Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians.

15:34 And he was mighty in his words and deeds.

15:37 When he was 40 years old, it came into his heart to visit his brothers, the children of Israel.

15:43 And seeing one of them being wrong, he defended the oppressed man and

15:46 avenged him by striking down the Egyptian.

15:48 He supposed that his brother would understand that God was giving

15:53 them salvation by his hand, but they did not understand.

15:56 And on the following day, he appeared to them as they were

15:59 quarreling and tried to reconcile them, saying, "Men, you are brothers.

16:03 Why do you wrong each other?"

16:04 But the man who was wronging his neighbor thrust him aside, saying,

16:08 "Who made you a ruler and a judge over us?

16:11 Do you want to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?"

16:14 At this retort, Moses fled and became an exile in the land of Midian,

16:18 where he became the father of two sons.

16:20 So an important section here, we're getting into Moses.

16:23 Perhaps the most famous, the Old Testament characters,

16:26 and certainly would be very familiar to this audience.

16:28 So he goes right into Moses here, man.

16:30 He's going into Moses, but there's some more shots being taken here,

16:35 like especially in verse 25, where you get this idea that

16:40 he supposed, like when Moses kills the first Egyptian,

16:43 he thinks that his brothers will get this.

16:46 They will understand.

16:46 So again, he's subversively beginning to sow these things in,

16:50 where clearly, the Jews did not understand Jesus as the suffering servant.

16:59 And even that great passage that so many people go to,

17:02 "Who do you say that I am?"

17:03 And Peter nails it, he nails it.

17:08 But then there are these six words that follow his pronouncement

17:12 that this is the Messiah, where Jesus says that the Son of Man,

17:15 which can mean just the Son of a Man,

17:18 or it could be Daniel's reference of the Messiah, must suffer.

17:23 And so everybody's super hard on Peter,

17:26 but they had no framework for this.

17:29 We have framework, because we're on the other side of the cross,

17:31 in the resurrection.

17:34 But they like to them that the Son of Man must suffer.

17:36 No, no, no.

17:37 He's the king.

17:38 The Messiah means king.

17:40 He's Christ.

17:41 He's not suffering.

17:42 He's come to make the nation suffer, not to suffer.

17:45 And so Joseph's doing this real brilliant, kind of subversive thing here,

17:51 when he does, when he says he supposed that his brothers would understand.

17:54 And of course they didn't, and here we are again.

17:57 You would think that our brothers would understand this, and they don't.

18:01 And another little jab is in Luke 24.

18:04 Jesus is described exactly in the same way that he just described Moses.

18:09 Mighty in word and deed.

18:11 It's in Luke 24, I think, 2426 somewhere in there.

18:15 So this is one of those, like I said, it's just such a brilliant sermon.

18:19 He's saying things subversively to get to his crescendo.

18:25 And these are two of the examples here.

18:27 Jesus is, he's the greater Moses.

18:29 He's mighty in word and deed.

18:30 And Moses thought his brothers would get it.

18:32 Like he thought, like you should get, I'm trying to deliver you.

18:36 Don't you see I'm for you?

18:37 I just killed this guy who was oppressing you.

18:40 So does this get into, and I don't want to get too far off,

18:42 because there's so much to cover here in Acts 7.

18:44 But when people talk about how wisdom is not gained via effort,

18:49 it is a gift, like wisdom is a gift, because there's a lot of people that are smart,

18:51 intellectually, they have a high IQ naturally, which is even, you know,

18:55 if you say that out loud, it's kind of hard for people to swallow.

18:59 But, you know, if faith is a gift given by God, not just attained by us through our mighty,

19:05 like mental, like effort or something like that,

19:08 is that kind of what we're seeing here to where it's like,

19:10 guys, you should have saw this, but you just weren't given sight.

19:14 Like you couldn't have seen it.

19:15 But he's putting on the weight on them. Right, that's what I'm seeing.

19:19 And Jesus does this a lot.

19:21 Do you know the law and not get this?

19:23 I mean, Jesus says something similar to this repeatedly to these guys.

19:27 See the apostles all the time.

19:28 How do you, not even the apostles, specifically the Pharisees and Sadducees,

19:31 with their questions?

19:33 He's like, wait, you're a teacher of the law, and you don't know this.

19:37 You know Moses, and you don't know this.

19:39 And so, again, Stephen's even taking some preaching cues from Jesus here.

19:44 Because Jesus, not uncommonly outright says this.

19:49 Stephen's still being subversive.

19:50 Jesus is just outright like, wait, you're a teacher of the law,

19:53 and you have to ask me this question.

19:55 You're a teacher of the law, and still you don't get this.

19:56 And this is subversive.

20:00 He knows they know Moses, he knows they know the story of Moses.

20:04 And so what he does is like, hey, when Moses did that,

20:06 he thought his brothers would get it, and they didn't get it.

20:09 They didn't see it, they didn't know.

20:11 And so, again, I think he's working towards his crescendo,

20:15 and he's starting to just pick at the ground a little bit

20:18 before he drops the hammer.

20:20 Yeah, this should give us pause, too, because we obviously

20:24 have the advantage of being able to look back and see all of it.

20:27 We see all of redemptive history that's laid out in the Bible.

20:30 And we can say, oh, yeah, that easily, I don't know how they couldn't see that,

20:34 but they're so seeped in this culture.

20:35 And like you're saying, Matt, they don't know, or they refuse to get it,

20:42 but I mean, earlier in Acts, even his disciples were like, okay,

20:46 you're gonna restore the kingdom of Israel, right?

20:50 He's like, you guys have literally been hanging with me for 40 days,

20:55 and that's your question.

20:57 So when I say it should give us pause and it should convict us,

20:59 we should be able to see these things and have that cut our heart, too.

21:05 And we should see ourselves, or we could see ourselves,

21:10 as people who are kind of stubborn to this thing, too.

21:14 And when somebody brings some truth to us, we should reflect and maybe sometimes think,

21:21 okay, what does this guy try to say?

21:22 What does God try to tell me here?

21:23 I think about Eric, if you're doing physical therapy for somebody,

21:30 and they come in with something they looked up on Google,

21:33 on the way there when they should have been paying attention to driving,

21:36 and they're trying to tell you what they should be doing.

21:39 I'm just curious, 'cause I've talked to coaches before,

21:41 like, good buddy of mine is a very high level wrestling coach,

21:44 shout out to Hardell Moore.

21:46 And he'll have these dads that have never wrestled,

21:48 scream at their kids in the middle of a match, what to do.

21:51 And Hardell isn't the type of guy that's gonna get into a scream match with a dad.

21:54 He stands up from his chair, and he just stands behind it and just crosses his arms.

21:59 And then the dad gets mad, like, why aren't you coaching?

22:01 It's like, sounds like you're coaching, here's the chair.

22:03 And he's not like, hey, I was a multi-time All-American at Oakland State,

22:08 the, you know, Grace Wrestling program in the world, blah, blah.

22:10 He has to do all that. Just goes, here you go, dad.

22:12 Have a seat. So it's like, it almost feels a little bit like that.

22:14 Like, you're coming into my office and telling me how to do my job?

22:16 Sure. Yeah, I've learned a lot of grace in my office.

22:20 I think you have to get that all the time, man.

22:22 I think I'd lose some patience.

22:24 If I did what that guy does.

22:26 Patience and patience, both.

22:27 Well, yeah. I had a scenario happen like that.

22:30 When I was a, I was coaching high school soccer up at OCS,

22:33 and I had a dad who'd never played soccer before,

22:35 and we lost a penalty kick shootout. And he just came and chastised me.

22:40 Like, you, you guys are terrible at penalty kicks.

22:42 And my son is the best penalty kick ticker.

22:44 Why didn't he take the, and I was like, you know what?

22:46 Why don't you, you know, you work with your son and get in here.

22:49 I told him he's not going to work on penalties with us at all.

22:51 Yeah.

22:52 So he's going to go, when we do penalty kicks,

22:54 he's just going to sit out because you're working with him.

22:56 All right.

22:56 And I promise he will be in the next penalty kick shootout.

22:59 Guess who missed in the next penalty kick shootout?

23:01 Shank Apotamis.

23:02 I'm just asking this.

23:04 And I just, it was, it was one of those.

23:05 Yeah.

23:06 Yeah.

23:06 That's right.

23:07 Yeah, that's exactly how that goes.

23:08 I wouldn't miss, I think this is what you were saying, Matt,

23:11 is super important.

23:12 If I think about, I've been a Christian for 33 years,

23:17 and the number of times in those 33 years,

23:22 I have been completely confident of what I thought the Bible said,

23:27 and how I thought God worked, and where the mystery was,

23:31 and where the mystery wasn't,

23:32 only to either in further study or through an experience

23:38 that I've had been forced to see the scriptures anew.

23:43 I mean, this is where I think some guys I know,

23:49 as they've gotten older, they've gotten harder and crustier and meaner,

23:53 rather than having some sense of flexibility that,

23:59 you know what?

24:00 Maybe I didn't have it all down in my 30s.

24:02 Maybe I didn't have it all down in my 40s.

24:04 You know, maybe there were some things and some complexities

24:06 that I couldn't see as a younger man that I can see now.

24:10 And I think they're really throughout our following of King Jesus.

24:15 There has to be a continual fight for humility and curiosity.

24:21 Right.

24:22 And this is why, man, I'll run in circles

24:23 that I know make certain people nervous for me.

24:25 But, man, I'm just curious.

24:27 Help me understand it.

24:28 Tell me what you're seeing from the text. What do you do with this?

24:32 Help me navigate this.

24:33 I feel like I'm a better preacher and minister,

24:37 not because I've stayed with my tribe,

24:38 and we've just all shouted at each other what's right and true,

24:42 but that I've been willing to go,

24:44 okay, it's clear to me that this person seems to love Jesus very, very much.

24:50 Sometimes in ways that I kind of go, man,

24:52 I wish I loved him a little bit more like that.

24:54 And what I want to be is curious with my mind fully intact.

24:59 And so I have met guys that have helped me grow in some areas

25:05 and nuance some areas of my doctrine over my 33 years of following Jesus Christ.

25:12 And guys who take the Bible just as seriously as I take it,

25:16 and nobody's coming pure to the book.

25:20 Everybody's bringing their background to bear.

25:22 They're bringing what they first heard to bear.

25:24 Nobody's coming clean to the book.

25:26 Well, in the crustier you get over time,

25:28 the least intellectually honest you become.

25:30 Oh, there's an end.

25:31 Yeah.

25:31 Because you become beholden to the ideology and not to capital T truth,

25:35 because you should constantly be on the quest for truth,

25:37 and you don't technically ever arrive in every category.

25:40 Well, and then you get scared of your tribe.

25:42 Sure.

25:43 I mean, then you get scared of your tribe.

25:44 And so when the Holy Spirit starts to go,

25:47 you're just about a degree off here.

25:51 But now you can't say that because you built your whole world around this tribe

25:55 that's either angry or never angry.

25:57 And you can't move now because you're beholden to the tribe

26:02 that you've given your allegiance to.

26:04 And I don't want to be, I don't want to be put in a tribe.

26:06 I want to be a little bit confusing.

26:07 I want the fringes a little worried and agitated at me.

26:13 I think I feel safest there because that should mean

26:18 I'm walking in some humility and some curiosity.

26:20 Not just blank, open-minded.

26:23 Ooh, I had this experience.

26:24 So that must mean everything I believed about the nature and character of God changes.

26:28 That's never happened to me.

26:29 But there have been nuances of my doctrine that the Lord's like,

26:35 and you're about two clicks too far on this.

26:37 Well, I think you're, if we look at the comments on anything you post on Instagram,

26:40 I think you are making quite a few people mad, no matter what, just by existing.

26:44 Just the dispeas right now, bro.

26:45 The dispeas are after me right now.

26:46 I think that's a good distinguish,

26:48 distinguishment that you made too though, Matt, is like there are some

26:51 doctrinal issues that you should never change.

26:55 Right.

26:55 That's right.

26:55 God is a true cornerstone.

26:56 That's right.

26:57 There are some cornerstone things of our faith.

26:58 Yeah, we're certainly not talking.

26:59 Like, yeah, I'm glad you said it because like there are some things you just can't,

27:02 you can't move on.

27:03 And if you do, like, okay.

27:04 Yeah, we've left Orthodox Christian teaching.

27:07 But yeah, there are some things that if we don't have a posture of curiosity or humility,

27:14 we're going to be humbled at some point and we risk, like, pushing people away or hardening

27:21 our own heart and then allowing God to harden our heart too.

27:25 Yeah, for sure.

27:25 Yeah, it's completely yoke.

27:27 I think the word argument or arguing has gotten a bad rap.

27:31 It's okay to argue.

27:33 And I think we should all know how to go about that because arguing brings forth truth and then

27:38 being able to receive, you know, push back or whatnot, being able to receive that thing

27:45 is also important too.

27:46 So if you're always what you said, you're kind of like, I'm open.

27:50 Yeah, we can talk.

27:51 Yeah, right.

27:51 Then you're remaining just enough humble that you can continue to grow.

27:55 Yeah, at the village, we call it robust dialogue.

27:58 And it's never, and I think if somebody's, if a man's listening, where men struggle with this

28:04 is that they will, they will take a push on an idea as a push on them.

28:10 Right, it's like a personal attack.

28:12 Yeah, we're not, we're not, we're talking about the tax.

28:14 Well, so stuff we talked about with identity.

28:16 So it's like, no, I'm, I'm any, I'm any part of the LGBTQ plus, you know,

28:20 array of chosen identities.

28:22 And it's like, no, no, you're not attacking what I choose to do with my genitalia.

28:25 You're attacking who I am as a person whom you say I'm wired by God to be.

28:29 Yeah, it's like, well, no, I didn't say that.

28:31 But like, I think the other thing that is important about robust dialogue

28:34 and kind of bringing together y'all's two ideas as we move forward.

28:37 I remember, I can't remember when did we have our big dust up when it was Adam Smith and Ryan

28:42 Horn and I think Zach, I was just in the corner, you know, laughing at everybody.

28:46 But like there was a decent sized dust up.

28:49 And right after Joby listened to the episode, he goes,

28:51 It was January of this year.

28:53 Okay. I can't remember.

28:53 Were we still Matthew, we had to have been still Matthew 26, I think.

28:57 I think you're right.

28:58 And so we're going through this and then we have this pretty good sized dust up.

29:03 And Joby text me afterwards.

29:05 He goes, that's it.

29:06 Yeah.

29:06 What y'all just did.

29:07 Because y'all had as brothers, you had some very robust dialogue about this.

29:13 And no one left having changed their mind.

29:15 But everyone left feeling as if they had probably gotten their points out.

29:18 And then we just, you know, kept the thing going and finished and it was fine.

29:22 And, you know, Ryan got a little hot under the collar,

29:24 but he just needed to basically go take a few laps and then he came back and he was fine.

29:27 But that's not modeled anywhere because as you're scrolling TikTok and Instagram

29:32 and Twitter and all these other different things,

29:34 you're only getting the level 10 reactions to people disagreeing about everything.

29:39 You're not really getting those people that are having a robust dialogue

29:42 about something that they have completely divergent opinions on.

29:44 So we're kind of losing that in modernity.

29:47 Let's keep Act seven going.

29:48 Eric, if you will hit versus 30 through 38, please.

29:54 Now, when 40 years had passed, an angel appeared to him, the wilderness of Mount Sinai,

29:58 in a flame of fire in a bush, when Moses saw it, he was amazed at the sight.

30:03 And as he drew near to look, there came a voice of the Lord.

30:07 "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob.

30:13 And Moses trembled and did not dare look.

30:17 Then the Lord said to him, take off the sandals from your feet,

30:21 the place where you are standing is holy ground.

30:23 I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt,

30:28 and have heard their groaning, and I have come down to my people who are in Egypt.

30:32 Oop, I have come down to deliver them, and now come, and I will send you to Egypt."

30:37 This Moses, whom they rejected saying, "Who made you a ruler and a judge?

30:42 This man, God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush."

30:49 This man led them out performing wonders in signs in Egypt, and at the Red Sea,

30:54 and in the wilderness for 40 years.

30:55 This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, "God will raise up for you a prophet like me

31:02 from your brothers. This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness

31:06 with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai, and with our fathers.

31:11 He received living oracles to give to us."

31:14 So, masterful.

31:15 Real quick, certainly masterful.

31:18 When you look at something like this, I'm always looking for the turn.

31:21 There are subtle turns, and then there are hammer turns, where people just absolutely pull the rug

31:27 off from underneath you, as opposed to just sliding it out from under your chair.

31:30 Is this the subtle turn in the sermon? Because that's why I'm saying it.

31:34 Yeah, we're getting there.

31:34 They're not amending anymore. They're furrowed brow.

31:41 Is he taking this? Because now he's saying he hadn't said it outright yet, but he's saying, "Hey,

31:48 Moses said there was someone greater coming, a prophet like him," and then he talked about,

31:53 "So now, this is your first illusion that Jesus is all, that he's prophet, priest, king.

31:57 He's the whole package, because it's a prophet like Moses, but what did he say about Moses,

32:02 that Moses was those other two things. He was priest and a kind of king, a ruler,

32:07 and now you've got a prophet like him that he said was coming, and then you've got these views

32:15 of theophany, as we would see it, an angel that's handing the law. We know he got the law from God,

32:21 but we see in Galatians, and we see even in Exodus, and some in Deuteronomy, but I think it's mainly

32:27 in Exodus, that this theophany of the angel of the Lord, not an angel of the Lord, that's involved

32:35 in this, and so there's a prophet like him, so all that he is, we've got prophet, priest, and king

32:41 coming, and there was one that was with the congregation in, he was with the people in

32:48 the congregation, Echlesia, the gathering of God's people in the wilderness, so he's starting to set

32:56 them up that Jesus is the one, this one you killed, you killed the one that was with us in the

33:03 wilderness, you killed the one that handed the law to Moses, you not only reject the law and you

33:08 reject Moses, which is what he's about to say, you not only rejected both of those, you're doing

33:12 that same crap again. So do the Jews, Matt, have, do they have a sense of Christophany where there's

33:18 like, when they're looking at their, their Old Testament texts, or the prophets, or things like

33:22 that, do they even have a category for them? They would have, they would call it a theophany at

33:27 that time, so God being among us, but they're not Trinitarian at all. And so they know

33:34 the son of man, but they think the son of man is David, somebody like David, human who's going to

33:41 rule the world and the nations are going to come in, become Jews basically. Speaking of David,

33:47 are we David? Is anybody? I think I'm on record. I think I'm on record.

33:56 Okay, yeah, yeah, I think we've heard before that. Anyway, you can continue. I was just curious.

34:01 No, I didn't have anything else to say. No, they would not have had Christophany's. They would have

34:05 Theophanes, Melchizedek, and they're not seeing any of that as the person of Jesus. They don't have,

34:12 they don't have like a category for the hypostatic union, fully God, fully man. None of that's there

34:20 yet. All that's going to be worked out by those who follow Jesus. They're going to work those

34:26 things through. And so the confusion, even that was within the disciples when they were like,

34:31 well, are you the coming king? Are you the one that we've heard about? It's like for us and believers,

34:35 all that stopped with Jesus. But what you're saying, just as a clarification is that,

34:41 even to this day, they are still waiting on that concrete king to come who has not come.

34:46 Yeah. They were just taking some red heifers over there, right? This year. From Texas? Yeah,

34:52 earlier this year. No smoke, but those red heifers were from Texas. Yeah, that's fine.

34:56 That's where the best come from, right? Yeah, that's what I mean. I would make that argument.

34:58 It's the rumor. I think it's interesting that he, you know, what he does with Moses kind of foreshadowing

35:04 to what and how God, you know, kind of works this in. I mean, we're going to see it in some

35:07 verses where Moses goes and sees the angel in the bush. And then obviously Moses's face reflects

35:15 God's glory. I think it's just really cool how God kind of plays these things into the story.

35:19 Yeah. And we're going to get into that. But it's just like that's setting us that's setting up

35:23 something right here that I think is really cool to see. Yeah. Well, let's go ahead and keep going

35:26 with it. So Matt, Grasmire, if you will hit 39 through 43, our fathers refuse to obey him,

35:33 but thrust him aside and in their hearts, they turn to Egypt saying to Aaron, make for us gods

35:39 who will go before us. As for this Moses who let us out from the land of Egypt, we do not know what

35:46 has become of him. And they made a calf in those days and offered a sacrifice to the idol and were

35:51 rejoicing in the works of their hands. But God turned away and gave them over to worship the

35:58 host of heaven. As it is written in the book of the prophets, did you bring to me slain beasts

36:04 and sacrifices during the 40 years in the wilderness, O house of Israel, you took up the tent of Moloch

36:11 and the star of your God, Revan, the images that you made to worship. And I will send you

36:16 into exile beyond Babylon. And in the reference there to Moloch, that's, I mean, that's the God

36:22 of child sacrifice. We see that that we still have that even today. So thank you Planned Parenthood

36:26 for continuing to sacrifice babies to the altar of forgiveness, not forgiveness whoops to convenience.

36:33 And so we're going to keep going with this a little bit. I did want to read this section from

36:37 Moody. Again, I thought the Moody commentary did a great job of breaking this up. But in 39 through

36:41 43, it says this contrary to their opinion of themselves as the true guardians of the Torah,

36:46 they actually had a history of rebellion against God. They made a golden calf and sacrifice to

36:50 God's like Moloch and to Revan or Revan, whatever. As did their forefathers who rejected Moses,

36:56 the Jewish leaders in Stephen's day rejected the Messiah of Israel. And so again, he's going to

37:02 talk about the stiffness of their necks before too long. But it's like, man, there's nothing

37:07 worse, I think, than someone who's incredibly cock sure and wrong. Because it's like they're

37:12 so sure of themselves, but then they just don't have a category for that they could possibly ever

37:15 be wrong about anything. It's very, very annoying. Yeah. Well, and again, he's, we broke it up in

37:22 two different readings. But you know, this little section again, this Moses, whom you rejected,

37:27 saying who made you ruler over us. So remember, this whole trial is about the fact that he is

37:33 telling them that the traditions, he's trying to replace the traditions of Moses. And he's like,

37:39 you didn't, you're all hot and bothered about Moses, but you ain't following Moses. You never

37:44 followed Moses either. Not only did you reject him saying who made you ruler over us,

37:48 but then you turn right around and went back to Egypt. So God sent you a deliverer,

37:52 you rejected that deliverer, and then you went back to your bondage. This is like the dark

37:58 part of history that nobody likes to talk about. And Stevens, we're like, there's, there's not even

38:03 for a brow anymore. There's, oh, hell no, like this. He is already trampling all over their pride,

38:11 their supposed expertise, because everyone listening knows he's right.

38:17 Right. Well, let's let the trampling of their pride continue, Eric. Let's go 44 through 50.

38:22 Our fathers had the tent of witness in the wilderness just as he who spoke to Moses directed

38:27 him to make it, according to the pattern that he had seen. Our fathers in turn brought it in

38:33 with Joshua when they dispossessed the nations that God drove out before our fathers. So it was

38:38 until the days of David who found favor in the sight of God and asked to find a dwelling place

38:43 for the God of Jacob, but it was Solomon who built a house for him. Yet the most high does not dwell

38:49 in houses made by hands. As the prophet says, heaven is my throne and earth is my foot still.

38:55 What kind of house will you build for me says the Lord or what is the place of my rest?

39:01 Did not my hand make all these things? The hammer is about to drop here in just a second,

39:07 but he's, he's quoting directly from Isaiah 66, which everyone in the audience would have known,

39:12 very likely known by heart. So let's talk a little bit about why this section is important as well.

39:16 One of the big, one of the big little throwaway phrases here, again, if you don't know kind of

39:20 the arc story here, is this idea of the tent of witness, which is in the middle of the tabernacle,

39:28 it holds the ark of the covenant. It's the full unfettered presence of God. And we're going to see

39:34 the same tent of witnesses in the book of Revelation when God begins to judge the world. Some of the

39:41 bowls of God's wrath come out of this tent. And this is that he's alluding to here. The fact that

39:50 they have repeatedly rejected the presence of God, that their history is not one. And this is just

39:57 true in the Old Testament. All the prophets are doing this. The word of the Lord comes to fill

40:03 in the blank, anybody but Jonah. And those words are always a reminder of the covenant Israel entered

40:10 into how they've repeatedly broken that covenant. The promise that God will keep his word concerning

40:16 them to keep them, but also to give them over to what they want if they keep going that way.

40:23 And all of that is repeatedly a rejection of the presence of God and preferring lesser gods,

40:31 little g-gods. And so him bringing up the tent of meeting here is a hit below the belt.

40:39 Because he's like, God continually offers you his presence through the prophets, through the

40:44 men he sends you, through the law, and you have done nothing but rejected. Our whole history is

40:50 rejection. Now, where are they hearing this? They're occupied by Rome. And Rome was brutal

40:58 to this little section of the world. They just were weary of them. They didn't understand them.

41:02 They despised the juice. And so Stephen here, he's in now. There's no conclusion that's going

41:10 to end. Well, I think right here is where it's now a mob where he brings up the tent of meeting.

41:15 You don't want the presence of God. This whole thing's a sham. This is full of crap.

41:20 You ain't trying to try me. You're trying to say something's true about you that's not true about

41:25 you. I mean, let's just go ahead and throw the hammer down and we'll talk about it in its entirety.

41:31 So Matt, if you'll grasp, if you will hit 51 through 53.

41:34 You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears. You always resist the Holy Spirit as

41:42 your fathers did. So do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed

41:48 those who announced beforehand the coming of the righteous one whom you have now betrayed and

41:53 murdered. You who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it. Now, I have been

42:00 reliably informed that if you use inflammatory language in any way, shape or form, if you use

42:06 judgmental language, and certainly if you point at people and call them out for things that you're

42:10 center that you have violated every rule of decorum, you have certainly violated the 11th

42:14 amendment of thou shalt be nice no matter what the circumstances would allow you to be able to do.

42:19 This is about as inflammatory and as bold a language as you will see, including the language

42:26 of Jesus that we see in the gospels that precede the acts of the apostles. And so, I mean,

42:31 obviously, Matt, you have kind of a fire brand preaching style and things like that. And sometimes

42:38 when you bring up inflammatory topics, you got a lot of people that are cheering and love what

42:41 you're saying. And then other times when you hit on other topics that maybe aren't everyone's pet

42:46 topic. It's not you don't get as good of a reception. That's true. But I just want to talk about in

42:50 general about the fact that we live in a time and place where if you come at darkness,

42:56 or sin or demonic activity in the world with any type of vim and verve, you're automatically

43:03 castigated as just this horribly terrible person. That's just a meanie mean pants.

43:08 Yeah, a lot of times it's not what you said. It's how you said it. It's like a bingo card you

43:13 can get that you know, yeah, I know that's true, but yeah, I wish you would have said it differently.

43:19 But here's what's crazy. Stephen said it differently four different ways before he got to this point.

43:23 Right. I mean, he's tried to repeatedly go, hey, remember Abraham? You guys remember that? Yeah,

43:28 you screwed that up, didn't you? Yeah. Oh, okay. What about Moses? Oh, remember that time?

43:35 You were there. Remember that time you guys rejected him said, who are you? And then you like

43:40 worshiped and served Egyptian gods who God had just beat down right before your eyes and let

43:45 you run back to them. And then, oh, yeah, remember David and Solomon? Oh, yeah, remember that guys?

43:51 When, I mean, he just, and I don't, I don't, again, I'm not going to read myself into the text,

43:57 but there's a point where you just get so like, I mean, oh my gosh, they're not hearing me. Yeah.

44:04 So then you're not subversive anymore. You're not trying to be sweet anymore. And you just

44:09 go in and that's what you just saw. So if you take the whole sermon, he starts trying to

44:15 subversively hope. And this might be a lesson for some preachers listening. There's a time that you

44:21 just have to say it. And that especially in our culture, sometimes nuance or being subversive,

44:28 it's not picked up. It's not because people aren't deep thinkers anymore. They're not thinking

44:33 about subtleties at all. No, no. And so there's a time you just have to say it. And, and Stephen

44:39 gets to the point where he's like, I'm, and I'm getting this is conjecture. It's not, you don't

44:43 see it in the text, but you watch his argument build. And then he finally seems like he's tired

44:47 of trying to make the argument. So he just brings it to a crescendo and it's like, you did this,

44:52 just like your father's did, just like your father's fathers did, just like you always do,

44:56 talking about them as a people. This is what you do. And obviously, like,

45:00 this is not a commercial for being default abrasive. No, that's not the sermon either.

45:06 Right. And that's certainly not what you see. But you know, as I'm reading through and as I'm

45:09 seeing at a table, like Matt and Eric, you both got you guys, Grassmeyer and Eric, you both have

45:14 similar personalities in terms where I feel like both of you are direct, but very rarely harsher

45:19 abrasive. And so we certainly haven't been so with me or with people that I've seen you interact

45:22 with, who knows what you're like behind closed doors. But like that, that's the thing that's

45:26 interesting for me is because for me, I'm looking at this passage as somebody who's default abrasive,

45:31 and I get to this part and I start cheering, I start drawing exclamation points and I'm like,

45:34 wait a minute. Yeah, you need to concentrate on the first part of this. Right. This is not my

45:39 license to in same thing. Like when I read about Jesus overturning the tables in the temple,

45:43 which again, we see happened twice technically in scripture and not just once. That does not

45:48 mean that every room you go into that you have a problem with a user star rearranging furniture

45:52 and driving people out of the space. But I'm just curious for you guys as you kind of read through

45:56 all this with y'all's temperaments, when you get to a section like this, like, you know,

46:00 what do you think about that in terms of how Steven ends this whole shindig?

46:04 Well, I think it's kind of like being a parent and got the store. Well, yeah, no, no, I know where

46:09 you're going. The story of Israel is essentially the humanity growing up. And there are different

46:14 phases that God uses to grow his people up. And then the prophets are a great example of, okay,

46:18 you guys, you guys are like, should know, like we've been doing this for a long time. I'm having

46:23 people come just tell you directly. Hey, you're opposed to my will, you're outside of the box

46:28 that I've given you. And I'm going to tell you that harshly. You don't say that to a four-year-old,

46:33 but a 17-year-old. And I'm not there yet. I've got a nine-in-a-four-year-old.

46:36 I've got the 18-year-old. You do say that straight down.

46:39 Yeah. As a child, as a son of a father and mother who kind of did that in a good way,

46:47 like I'm kind of looking forward to, I'm not looking forward, like, oh, I can't wait. But like,

46:51 I'm looking down the road of like, okay, this is kind of, I mean, this is redemptive history. So

46:56 he's kind of going through the ebbs and flows that God uses. And he literally uses the language

47:00 of God, like, you stiff-neck people. I mean, God says that several times in the Old Testament.

47:05 And then I can just imagine those guys, when he says, "Uncircumcised," I wonder if they just,

47:10 they didn't even hear him say harden ears on "Uncircumcised." We are circumcised. Like,

47:15 right. I mean, and purposely so. And so I think there is a little bit of parenting

47:20 that is seen here in Stephen, kind of showing how you should interact with people.

47:25 Yeah. And you know, I just write down keywords here. I don't look at that and go,

47:30 "Oh, man, he's been a little bit harsh. I'm with you." And if you were in my home long enough,

47:35 you would see that when I deal with, I mean, all my kids are different. Like, my little girl,

47:40 I can literally just look at her and be like, "I'm disappointed." And she's the sweetest little thing

47:43 in the world. But my oldest is not that way, and I have to be more direct. But what I wrote down

47:50 and you were talking is like, Stephen knows his identity. Yeah, he does. And because of that,

47:56 he is confident. And because of his confidence and through the work of the Holy Spirit, he has

48:02 conviction. And through that conviction, then he can put forth courage. I mean, and he had that

48:08 courage to go stand in front of those guys and be very, very direct. And that's how I feel like,

48:13 in my parenting, is that when I know something, I've experienced it. I've had maybe I've fallen

48:19 in that experience, but then I've been redeemed through it. I can come out the other sign and

48:24 come at it with it. I don't want you to make the same mistake. And so I'm going to be very direct

48:29 in how I explain this to you. Now, when they're young, you don't want them to hurt themselves.

48:34 When they're old, I don't want them to hurt themselves, but it's a totally different kind of

48:37 conversation, right? Yeah. And one of the things I want to, especially if you're listening to this

48:42 now, I want to remind you, Stephen is not an apostle. He's a deacon. His primary gift is not

48:51 teaching. And so I'm highlighting that because when the apostles and the crowd in Jerusalem see

48:58 Stephen, they think, man, this guy'd make a great deacon. This guy should be able to handle this

49:03 disagreement between the Hellenist Jews and the Hebrew Jews. And yet, this is a man who has

49:11 obviously dedicated himself to knowing the Word of God. And so he's not the blue-check charismatic

49:17 on tour preaching the Bible, God. He's a guy that serves in his church, and he knows the

49:24 Word of God, and he's been equipped by it. And he's so confident in it that this is what comes out

49:30 when he's drug in front of a mob. He's ready. I want to slam this home just a little bit because

49:35 you probably get this way more than I do, but I certainly get it. I get people that'll send me

49:39 a message like, hey, I'm having an argument with my 16-year-old daughter about pro-life stuff.

49:45 Will you have that argument for me? Or hey, you see something wrong in somebody else, and so as

49:51 opposed to talking to them, you buy them a book. And so you want the author of the book to speak

49:55 to them about that particular topic. And so it's like, look, you have to give an apology or apology

50:02 of the faith that is within you, for what you carry. That's not my job. Now, I'm in these

50:09 arguments all day, every day I may be able to help you. Like if you're a theologian or a pastor,

50:13 or something like that, perhaps you can give biblical scaffolding to the argument that is

50:18 occurring or something like that. But again, this is just one of the things where when the moment

50:22 arose, and he had to rise to the occasion, he did so. And because he had prepared, I constantly

50:29 talk about making deposits. I always talk about physically, because that makes sense. You can't go

50:34 from couch to Murph. You can go from couch to 5k. You can even go from couch to marathon.

50:39 You just don't stop until 26.2 miles get behind you right now. But you can't couch to Murph.

50:45 You can't go from having never done a pull up to doing 100 with weight on your back,

50:48 in addition to everything else. And this is the same thing. How many spiritual deposits and faith

50:54 deposits had Stephen made to where he got up in front of these people, and he just said this stuff

50:59 right out of his soul. And Kudos, you're listening to this right now. So I know you're on the journey.

51:03 I wanted to just pause and go, keep going, brother. Just keep, get you a good study Bible,

51:08 get you a journal, write yourself clear, wrestle with the text. You might be hearing something

51:15 one of us is saying, and you're like, "Golly, how'd they know that?" And we know that because

51:20 we're doing this stuff. This isn't the forging table great. I've been reading my Bible for 33

51:27 years. And actually, I started reading it before I became a Christian. So it builds on itself

51:32 over time. You're not late. Just keep going. Don't lose heart. Just keep listening to things

51:38 like this. But make sure on top of this, you've got a regular time set aside every day. I'm not

51:43 talking about frigging quiet time. That sounds like you're being punished. I'm saying, go to your

51:47 quieter. Pick a book of the Bible. Start working your way through it. If you need commentaries,

51:53 get a commentary. But I just recommend a really good study Bible. The ESV study Bible is one of

51:58 my favorites, just exceptional. I'm not getting paid to say that unless CrossFit, you guys want

52:02 to throw me some chatter about it. Yeah, throws no, but like at this table, ESV study Bible right

52:06 there. John MacArthur study Bible right there. Reformation study Bible right there. Like boom.

52:10 Grab a good study Bible. Slowly work your way through it. Yeah, this isn't how to study the Bible,

52:16 but I just wanted to encourage you, brothers, you can do this and you should do this.

52:20 Amen. I think this is also a call to us as members of the body of Christ. It's like, as a deacon,

52:27 I think a lot of times people think a deacon, okay, they set chairs up like they're kind of there.

52:32 They're kind of just doing some stuff. They're good at maybe some organizational stuff, but like

52:35 clearly, Stephen is gifted in preaching. And I really love one of the biggest things I've learned

52:41 from R.C. Sproul, who's just a he's a hero of the mind is knowing the difference between

52:48 distinction and separation is crucial because like you can distinguish Deacon from an apostle,

52:54 but you can't separate him from the call of God. Because he's a deacon, he has the same call that

53:00 we all do. The whole church should preach the whole gospel to the whole world and you can't

53:05 separate that. So this should convict us to go and I'm saying this to me just as much as I would

53:10 be to anybody else. Like we can't shudder from the reality that as we're in the world, we will be

53:17 called to preach truth and sometimes in ways that make us uncomfortable. So get ready to be uncomfortable.

53:25 Right. And I don't know that we know who Stephen's father is, but I wonder if Stephen's father

53:30 had read Deuteronomy 6 and 4 says, "Hero Israel, the Lord our God, Lord is one. You shall love the

53:37 Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. And these words I can

53:40 man you should be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and talk to them

53:44 when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way and when you lie down when you rise.

53:48 Now, if I go down to the almost the last verse, it says, "And when your sons ask you, where is that?"

53:55 Yes. Verse 20, "When your son asks you in time to come, what is the meaning of these testimonies

54:01 and these statutes and the rules of the Lord God has commanded, then you say to your son

54:06 and then you go exactly with what Stephen just said." Right? Yeah. And so not because I said so.

54:14 Exactly. And I wrote down the phrase, "Family folklore." We should have stories that we tell

54:21 just about our family and our upbringing. Not tall tales, but not big fish, but just stories.

54:27 That's how this was passed on. We should have the same thing in our household. One of the things

54:34 that I never heard from my father was his testimony. And I just think that's an

54:38 absolute essential thing that we should all of our kids and our family members should know where

54:43 we stand with Christ and how we got to that point. And catechism is not a 15th century idea.

54:48 No, that's right. No, catechism is happening right there. Just to follow up on that idea.

54:53 You should be able to walk your children through the time you were in the valley of the shadow of

54:59 death and how the Lord sustained you through that. Because when I was going through the valley of

55:04 shadow of death earlier this year, how many times have I read Psalm 23? If I had played high school

55:09 football, I would have quoted the Lord's prayer a billion times. I would have done all these different

55:13 things, but you never see the valley of the shadow of death for yourself until you're in it, right?

55:19 You can see someone else that's in the valley, but only when you're there and you see that God's not

55:24 God, God's not gone rather. God is not gone from you. His presence has not left you,

55:30 but that he is guiding you through because there's a storm, but he has you by the hand and he is

55:35 leading you through the storm. But much like Peter walking out to Jesus on the water, if you lose

55:40 sight of the hand that's trying to save you, and you get too focused on the storm, you might just

55:45 miss out entirely. That's exactly right. And so let's go ahead and get into this last section.

55:50 I've got one more thought on that. And just from a very practical standpoint,

55:55 I find that with my oldest kids that the best conversations often start with my experience

56:03 with the Lord and not with let's talk about such and such. You're just talking about your

56:08 girlfriend, and this thing. It's more like when I was your age, and then we give them that, it

56:13 opens and softens because they go, "Oh, you're human. You're not just my dad that's trying to make

56:18 me do the right thing." Especially if you're leading with weakness and vulnerability, not

56:21 strength, and stupid like you. Well, the same thing is true. When you're a kid,

56:28 you just assume adults are really, really smart, and then you become one and you're like, "Oh, we're

56:31 not." I'm included in the category of morons, and that's just the things. Your kids will notice that

56:37 as they continue to get older as well. So getting into this last section of Act 7,

56:41 I'm actually going to read verse 54. So gentlemen, let's relax over here.

56:46 You're holding out. You're stealing my rib. That's okay. Guys, just relax. Keep your own ribbons.

56:52 All right, I'm going to read verse 54. Now, when they heard these things, they were enraged,

56:56 and they ground their teeth at him. So let me explain this first to people who are well-adjusted.

57:04 Some of you just, you've never been that flustered. When you're in traffic and

57:09 someone cuts you off, you go, "Oh, man, I bet they needed to get where they needed to go a lot

57:12 faster than me. No big deal grace for them." You're just that person. I've never had that

57:18 countenance. I've never had that level of patience. It is a miracle when those things happen.

57:22 This is complete, all-consuming, out-of-control rage. When we see Jesus when he arrived at the

57:31 tomb where Lazarus had been buried, it says that he snorted with anger, right? If you've

57:39 never been there because it's not in your countenance, it's not in your personality,

57:43 this is where you can't even bring words to mind to say only noises, and the noises are

57:49 like you're just short-circuiting. It's like the little guy from Home Alone,

57:55 where he's like, "It's that level. This is apoplexy." For a lot of you guys, again,

58:04 if you read the text with no personality, and you're like, "Now then they heard these things,

58:10 they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at them," and you're thinking, "Ugh,

58:13 I don't like what you're saying. No, that's not what's happening here. This is murderous rage

58:19 that most of us luckily have never and will never experience at all. But, Eric, if you will go

58:24 ahead and take it from there, go 55 through the end of the chapter, please." But he, full of the

58:29 Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,

58:35 and he said, "Behold, I see that heaven's opened and the Son of man standing at the right hand of

58:40 God," but they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him.

58:46 Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him, and the witnesses laid down their garments

58:53 at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out,

58:59 "Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit." And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice,

59:04 "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

59:09 So, so many things. Even just hearing you read that out loud, I'm getting a little bit upset,

59:15 just like thinking about the scene. So I just want to point out a few things, and then we will

59:18 certainly dig in. The way that Saul is introduced here by Luke, this is like movie villain stuff,

59:25 where you see like just the back half of Shredder walking through the sewer before you actually see

59:32 the whole thing, right? Like that's, he's just dropping Saul into the story here, and he plays

59:37 obviously an incredibly prominent part as we move our way entirely through. Before we get into

59:42 process of stoning and what this means is him for the first martyr, I have a question that I might

59:47 be reading into a little bit too much. But when it says in verse 56, "Behold, I see the heavens opened

59:52 up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God," not sitting, standing. That's one of the

59:58 things that I'm listening to. Is there significance there, or am I just like reading in the text? Yeah,

1:00:01 I'm not sure if there is or isn't. There certainly is in the sentence because this is Jewish eschatology.

1:00:08 This is the end of all things. The Son of Man with God, raining and ruling over all things.

1:00:16 And so a parting shot, if we want to look at it this way, is he's looking up and saying,

1:00:22 "I see the thing that you're so desperate for," and they plug their ears and rush him.

1:00:28 And so he's just, you kill him, he's resurrected. He just dropped the hammer. I mean, the mob explodes.

1:00:36 They rush at him, and he lifts up his head and says, "I see the Son of Man standing next to

1:00:42 the Father," and that's a shot. It's the thing that you say you're so desperate for,

1:00:48 that you're coming to kill me for over. I see it. You don't see it, but I see it. So now go back

1:00:53 into a sermon on three occasions in the sermons. He's like, "We thought our brothers would see it,

1:00:58 and they couldn't see it. We thought our people could see it, and they couldn't see it. We thought

1:01:01 our people would get it, and they don't get it." He's been here the whole time.

1:01:03 And he's got this one last, "I see it. You don't see it for him on this Son of Man standing next to

1:01:10 the Father." I haven't thought through the sitting standing because it's usually sitting because it's

1:01:14 right now. This is something that I dug into a little bit, like most of the time when Jesus is

1:01:18 referenced in this way, it is as him seated next to the right hand of power, next to the right

1:01:23 hand of the Most High, and right hand of the Father, here in a standing. And obviously,

1:01:29 some of this is speculation, but some of the commentaries that I read were he's standing in

1:01:35 solidarity with Stephen. He's standing as his Sproul puts it as he's standing as his advocate.

1:01:43 He's our advocate to the Father. And that's a very interesting thing that he's not seated.

1:01:49 He's actually standing. And I think that's pretty cool. It looks like he's welcoming you.

1:01:53 Yeah. Good job. So, again, we can't, I guess, know for sure. This is kind of where I went with

1:02:00 standing. There's a different level of attention when you're standing watching something than when

1:02:05 you're seated, a different level of comfort when you're standing. But you're also more prepared

1:02:11 to react and respond when you are standing. And again, I don't want to read something into the

1:02:15 text that's not there. So, I'll pull a channel and say, "Here's the Bible. I'm going to walk over

1:02:19 here and make a few comments." So, that's kind of where my head went, where he is standing at

1:02:23 attention watching what's happening. This could be an argument against the match or the watchmaker

1:02:30 theory. God is a God who created the world and he just stepped back. To stand is to actively

1:02:36 participate. Christ is actively participating in our everyday lives. And I don't think we should

1:02:44 miss that. He's continually praying for us as well. Yeah. It says that as well.

1:02:48 Well, and I think the thing that we see here as well is again, that's why that's why things

1:02:54 again. I know people hate the chosen. Where are you at on the chosen? I like the chosen. Okay,

1:02:58 like chosen. So, I've said this a lot. So, if you've heard me say this a lot, but I know there's

1:03:02 there's new people. Yeah, shut your mouth. There's new people coming to the show on a weekly basis.

1:03:06 And we're so thankful for you guys coming to the show. So, some of you will have endured this story

1:03:09 a lot. But how many times had I heard about or just buzz through the story of the woman of the

1:03:14 problem of blood? Yeah. And then like again, even right now, just thinking about the story,

1:03:18 it's like making me upset because that was a three episode arc of the chosen during season three.

1:03:24 And it never landed with me. Oh, the woman with the problem of blood. I bet that was uncomfortable.

1:03:30 No, this one was on her period for over a decade. She was richly unclean for over a decade. She had

1:03:35 lost her standing in society, her entire family. And she knew if I could just get to the corner of

1:03:40 his garment that I will be saved. And it's like, that's more faith than I have ever shown in just

1:03:46 about any scenario whatsoever. And it was because the chosen slowed that down for me that I was able

1:03:52 to land. The same thing is true in a macabre way with the stoning of Stephen. Guys, I've seen videos

1:03:59 of people being stoned to death. Okay. Like just I've exposed myself some dark content, some stuff I

1:04:04 wish I hadn't have seen. But this is not a slow process when someone is stoned to death.

1:04:09 Because I think when I was a kid, I thought of a stone as like, okay, they got a really big stone

1:04:14 and they like lifted it up on a pulley system and then put the person under it and dropped it on

1:04:18 their head. And then, you know, you just, you know, like a pimple, you just head pops and you're gone.

1:04:21 It's like, no, everyone grabs a rock. And they just start chucking it at you.

1:04:26 Some of them hold on to the rocks and they're beating you with the rock to death. Because again,

1:04:32 I just think like how long would the death take if someone people are just throwing, you know,

1:04:37 hand-sized rocks at you? But no, some of these people are literally trying to bash your brains.

1:04:41 And this was not we are trying to maximize the time of your suffering. But just inherent in the

1:04:46 act is the suffering will be prolonged and incredibly big. Yeah, the act in principle is not a quick

1:04:51 thing. One thing that I got out of here was, okay, so they're angry enough to disobey their own laws.

1:04:58 I mean, they're like proving the point of his sermon. We are literally not going to waste any more

1:05:04 time. We're going to stone this guy. And I really like what Spurgeon says about this. He's talking

1:05:09 about Stephen Sermon. He says, he takes the sharp knife of the word and rips up the sins of the

1:05:14 people laying open the inward parts of their hearts and the secrets of their soul to the point

1:05:20 that they are gnashing their teeth. They're so angry that they're disobeying their own laws so

1:05:24 they can just let's just get this over with. This guy needs to go. Right. We got to get him out of

1:05:28 the gene pool. Yeah. And then go ahead. I've got, yeah, just I was thinking about the whole Jesus

1:05:33 standing. This is maybe a silly example, but I remember this video. It's pretty old now. I think

1:05:38 it was originally on YouTube. It was this commentary about leadership and they were showing like the

1:05:43 side of this hill and people watching a concert and then just randomly this guy gets up and just

1:05:49 starts dancing. Yeah. And they're, you know, and they're like, you know, this is how leadership

1:05:53 starts. He starts with the first guy. Nobody was going to do anything until there was a first guy.

1:05:58 And you see this guy just dancing awkwardly does not care. He's just doing his thing. Like, how

1:06:03 was he experiencing? Can you give us an idea like how? I'm not going to do that. Okay. Fair enough.

1:06:07 It was not twerking. I can run for that. But that's not what I was asking for either.

1:06:11 Really goofy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, two or three people after about 10 or 15 seconds, join them.

1:06:18 And then, you know, 20 seconds later, a few more people join them. And then it just becomes like

1:06:22 this flash mob and then just everybody's in. And I almost just think about Jesus standing up and

1:06:27 being like, bro, you're the first to do this, but you're setting the tone for everyone after that.

1:06:35 And I'm proud of that. I don't think you could be a youth pastor in the early,

1:06:39 or maybe the late 90s and early 2000s, unless you showed that video, showed that video.

1:06:44 So the thing that's also very important here is all the core layers. And again,

1:06:49 this was was moody. Moody was great for me with this one. The core layers between what Stephen

1:06:53 said and did during this period and what Jesus said and did. So Stephen, you know, Lord Jesus,

1:06:57 received my spirit. And then in Luke 23, it's father into your hands, I commit my spirit.

1:07:02 Stephen, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. Luke 23, 34, father, forgive them for they know,

1:07:07 not what they do. Having said this, he fell asleep. Jesus, Luke 23, 46, having said this,

1:07:13 he breathed his last. And so it's like, we've all, if we've maybe seen, seen it live, or we've heard

1:07:21 of stories of people that go courageously and happily to their deaths. Now, in our modern context,

1:07:27 that is typically in a hospital room, surrounded by friends and family, or at home, surrounded by

1:07:33 friends and family. And then, you know, they all have kind of the same story. It's like, well,

1:07:37 you know, we all said our goodbye to grandpa, and then, you know, grandpa, he was just gone. You know,

1:07:41 we have those stories. But I think about the first, second and third century martyrs and these people

1:07:47 that pagan scholars, Jewish historians, Roman, you know, philosophers, they're, they're marking

1:07:54 and remarking about these, these followers of the way, these, these Christians, these weirdos,

1:08:01 they know they're being taken to the Colosseum to be torn apart by animals. They know they're

1:08:06 about to be little on fire so that, you know, the emperor can have a party at night. And they're

1:08:11 like singing these songs, these songs of praise and hope and love and sacrifice. And they would

1:08:19 probably like to have it another way. I don't think anybody wants to be torn apart by a wild animal,

1:08:23 but they're just like, hey, man, to live as Christ today's game. Like, what are you going to do to me?

1:08:28 I read a quote just along these lines. It's actually in the book, but he, it's a book by one of my

1:08:34 favorite theologians. Well, it's probably overstated. But he said nothing reveals how we can pedantic

1:08:41 the work of the enemy is like the joyful singing of God's people in his face.

1:08:46 And that a great call is so gracious.

1:08:49 Was that neat? Oh, yeah. That's right. I mean, so guys, there's so much here to act seven,

1:08:54 but I just want to echo something as we, as we leave this section, Matt Chandler, what you said

1:08:59 earlier about, um, for guys, we don't want you guys to look at the forging tables if we're not

1:09:06 just like you. Now, Matt, you're not like on any of us. So you're like special. You have like

1:09:09 your own category of special. So, you know, good for you. But for the rest of the simpletons down here,

1:09:14 right? We are just regular dudes, but I say that tongue in cheek because guess what,

1:09:20 you've got a king's table of regular dudes that could give a crap about how many books you sold

1:09:24 last week. And so guys, you need a group of guys around you that could give a crap less about how

1:09:29 many books you sold last week, how many downloads your podcast got, what, you know, accolades you got

1:09:33 at work, the fact that you had the best quarter, last quarter at work, or those same things in the

1:09:38 opposite and in the reverse. Yeah. This is about getting dudes around a table. And as opposed to

1:09:43 just doing dude stuff, watching the fights, you know, talking about this fancy football draft,

1:09:48 any of that type of stuff, which is fine. I'm not anti any of those things. But you're all in the

1:09:52 word on your own. And however way you do that, whatever translation of the Bible that even though

1:09:57 the message, you know, don't do that. That's not a translation. That's garbage. But like you got

1:10:00 your own translation of the Bible. Some of you are big commentary people. Some of you are meditators,

1:10:05 some of you are just like, I'm going to listen to this text at nauseam for the next week until we

1:10:10 get together. But then get together at a table. I don't care what you call it and start bouncing

1:10:15 ideas off. And also we didn't do this initially with the forging table and I wish we would have.

1:10:19 So what's wrong with you, OGs? Why didn't you correct me from the beginning? We used to not

1:10:22 actually just read the text, like we would read sections here and there and then we would kind of

1:10:26 flow and talk about it. But just reading the text out loud, because what's the quote to where it's

1:10:32 like, if you want to hear God speak, read his word, if you want to hear him speak audibly, read it out

1:10:35 loud. It's like there's something different. Eric, I've read the Stephen story a lot over the

1:10:40 last couple of weeks. Hearing you read it out loud just hit me different. The Holy Spirit is

1:10:44 delivering that to my psyche and to my subconscious in a different way, just hearing you read it out

1:10:49 loud. So that is my commercial to all of you. Find a forging table. We've got resources for you. So

1:10:55 here in the show notes, Crossway, they put together a five book set for you guys to start your own

1:11:00 forging table. There is a study Bible in there that's an ESV men's study Bible. It's absolutely

1:11:05 fantastic. There's a few other books that will help you as you dig in and go through. We also have

1:11:09 the Logos Bible software that we are affiliated with guys. It's the most powerful Bible software

1:11:13 you could possibly imagine. So if you get into a situation like this, this is not a tool that is

1:11:19 only there to help you impress your friends. But by golly, if you get it, you're going to learn

1:11:22 some stuff where if you say you're going to impress your friends and all that will be in there. But

1:11:25 guys, I really enjoyed our discussion of Act seven, but we are going to have to leave it there. But

1:11:29 everybody listen to this. Make sure you are read through Acts eight, Matt, you will be with us next week

1:11:34 as we go through with Max eight. So we're so glad you've been here with us for the last several weeks.

1:11:38 But that is all for now. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.

1:11:42 Add on to the life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges

1:11:45 spiritual mental and physical resilience. I've already talked about the crossway forging table

1:11:49 starter set. We talked about the Logos Bible software. But if you haven't heard me talk about

1:11:53 before, we are a donation based ministry. Almost everything that we get the majority of how we're

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1:12:14 to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info at undaunted.life. That's

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1:12:28 Just go to www dot undaunted.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing

1:12:33 us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,

1:12:37 which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.

1:12:42 I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,

1:12:46 keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

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