0:00
You focus on your physical and mental health, but when's the last time you checked in on
0:04
your financial health?
0:06
Many Americans feel financially anxious, yet many are doing better than they think.
0:10
At Fairwind's Credit Union, we give you a clear snapshot of your finances and a plan
0:15
to move forward with confidence.
0:17
With high-yield savings and free checking, we help your money work harder.
0:21
Visit fairwinds.org for more information, federally insured by NCUA.
0:26
I wrote a little song to remind you, choice hotels get you more of the experiences you
0:33
value.
0:34
The Cambria Hotel's got it all, a rooftop bar, a have a ball, cocktails up here feel just
0:42
right.
0:43
It's Cambria who mazes in all right.
0:49
Bring a date, your team or even your mom, book direct at choicehotels.com.
0:55
Y'all are loose.
1:18
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:25
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:29
forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:32
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:35
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey
1:38
with us.
1:39
That's Howard.
1:40
That's Donnie.
1:41
That's Ryan.
1:42
Guys, here's the thing.
1:43
We're going to get into Acts 27, but I think it would be remiss if we didn't take this
1:46
opportunity specifically for Howard, Ryan, and myself, because we've got some cool things
1:52
on this show.
1:53
We've got to ask a pastor with Jobe Martin.
1:54
That's one of our most talked about and our favorite things that we have.
1:58
Once a month, Pastor Jobe Martin from Church 1122 comes on here, and the donors get to
2:02
ask questions of him that maybe it's a question they would want to ask their pastor that
2:05
haven't been able to ask.
2:07
That's a fun one.
2:08
Then we basically have Ask a US Senator once a month, because Senator Mark Wayne Mullen comes
2:12
on.
2:13
We do a thing called From the Senate, so we get to talk about some politics and things
2:16
that are going on, but I think we should take advantage of this time, because right now,
2:20
we could do Ask a licensed marriage and family therapist, because that's what Donnie does
2:26
for a living.
2:27
I don't know if we've talked about that over the last couple of weeks.
2:30
You did.
2:31
Here's the best thing about it, Donnie, is you can't charge us for our time.
2:35
These are our questions.
2:37
Ryan and Howard and I have had these burning questions, relationship questions.
2:42
Some might or might not be about us, and they might or might not be about other people or
2:46
things like that, but basically what we're going to do, if it's okay with you, because
2:51
you're not trapped in the corner where Howard is, so you could technically run out of here.
2:55
It's okay with you.
2:56
I think there are some questions that we have that the men in our audience would do well
3:00
to hear and for the lady listeners as well.
3:03
What do you say, Donnie?
3:04
I'd love to.
3:05
I'd love to do it.
3:06
Okay.
3:07
Let's start out with something really, really, really low-key, as just kind of a nice introduction,
3:10
a soft place to land, so let's talk about sexless marriages.
3:14
So I know there are some guys that I've talked to, because again, I get DMs and emails from
3:20
guys from all over the place that have any number of things like, "Hey, I'm looking for
3:23
a good devotional all the way up through, I've experienced this horrific level of abuse,
3:28
what's your advice for me?"
3:29
But I do know that there are guys, a lot of guys are frustrated with their sexual relationship,
3:34
whatever that means, but then there are guys that in terms of their relationship, their
3:38
wife will only allow sex to happen, and they can count on one hand, the number of times
3:43
a year that sex is allowed to happen, right?
3:47
And there are men out there that are trying their best to honor their wives and to love
3:53
them through it, and I got a secondary question that I'll ask after that they get a couple
3:58
of questions in, but for a man that's wanting to abide by Ephesians 5 and to love their
4:04
wife is Christ, love the church, and I guess what's that book, a love and respect, right?
4:09
And so they're not getting any respect as a man, but they're wanting to love because
4:12
the level of respect they get does not determine how much they're allowed to love.
4:17
But knowing that there's obviously a myriad of issues there and backgrounds and things
4:21
like that, just generically, what would the advice be?
4:24
You know, I think the biggest thing that's missing, and Kyle, there's a lot of conversations
4:29
that happen in that this whole subject matter in my office, and what I'm really finding
4:34
is that the big O that we're trying to achieve is not orgasm, it's oneness.
4:40
And I don't think most women that I talk to believe that they're part of the sexual
4:45
part of their relationship, they feel like it's for the husband, they feel like they're
4:49
giving something for the husband, and I don't think there's a lot of emphasis on the women
4:53
understanding what that means to them, and that's work for them to do, but also men helping
4:58
them figure out that part and letting the wife know that they want to find oneness and
5:04
it's not just about them getting what they need, and that's a heavy process.
5:08
I mean, that's not an easy deal.
5:10
I'd spend a lot of time in counseling working with people to help them find oneness in a
5:15
relationship and trying to figure out that intimacy is spiritual, emotional, physical
5:20
intimacy, and most of us have only figured out the physical, we've only been trained
5:25
growing up that physical is what it's all about.
5:28
The church isn't talking about sex, we both know that, and at the same time, the world's
5:33
talking about sex, and no one really focuses on on oneness, so what I would say is if a
5:36
husband and wife or husband can help figure out what oneness looks like, can help figure
5:41
out how to accomplish oneness, the way the wife is getting something out of it, the wife
5:45
is pursuing something, the wife is putting effort into it instead of just appeasing to
5:51
what the husband needs or wants.
5:52
I think they can really find what the Bible talks about is sex or intimacy.
5:57
Well, guys, there's your soft place to land, so we already ripped off the band-aid there,
6:02
but yeah, guys, hit them up with questions that either you've been wondering or you think
6:06
someone else would like to hear.
6:07
This is kind of a question I have for a friend.
6:11
What do you say about men who are overly passionate about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
6:16
Do you think that there's a repressed, homoerotic feeling with that passion?
6:21
Yeah, do tell, Donnie.
6:24
Perhaps the reason this question came up is because if you guys listened last week, Ryan
6:29
shook on the fact that we were going to start training Jiu Jitsu, but I just have to wear
6:33
a cologne, but I tricked him before the recording of this podcast into letting me triangle choke
6:38
him and then he pretended to be passed out or whatever.
6:40
But yeah, that one doesn't even count because I wasn't wearing cologne.
6:43
Yeah.
6:44
I still have division, but now I'm out of the deal because he was not wearing cologne.
6:49
That is not it.
6:50
I still have yoga.
6:51
I still have yoga.
6:52
I still have yoga.
6:53
You too wrestling here on the floor, so.
6:54
It wasn't really wrestling.
6:55
It was me just getting hairy leg wrapped around my neck.
6:58
It was you accepting?
6:59
Right.
7:00
I think it's called submission.
7:01
It's just submission.
7:03
How should wives submit to their husbands?
7:07
That's that one word.
7:08
You know, I think husbands first have to understand that submission is given.
7:12
It's not taken.
7:13
When a wife submits is because she wants to honor a commitment as a wife and to God to
7:18
submit and they give that submission isn't for us to ask for his husbands.
7:22
And I think if husbands are submitting to God's authority and loving their wives as Christ
7:27
loved the church, sacrificially, that submission is easy for them to give because we're showing
7:31
submission by how we're submitting to God's authority.
7:34
Does that kind of show how we proclaim the gospel and the fact that God doesn't ask us
7:38
to submit to him, we lovingly submit to him once we believe in Christ and who he is.
7:44
Yeah.
7:45
It's a good parallel.
7:46
Absolutely.
7:47
Awesome.
7:48
So do you find a lot of married couples that come in?
7:50
One is not willing to submit or they're not willing to submit long enough to see a change.
7:54
Is that where you really see?
7:55
Yeah.
7:56
You know, we talked a little bit this morning about the crazy cycle.
7:58
We didn't get much into it, but yeah, that's kind of what happens is one says, well, I'm
8:01
not going to give unless you give and I'm not going to give unless you give.
8:04
And so it's a tug of war and no one's willing to submit to what God's called them to do
8:09
as a husband or wife.
8:10
And so it's that power struggle of control.
8:13
It's not submitting to the authority of God.
8:15
I'm going to love my wife regardless of how she's treating me or responding to me.
8:20
And she's called to the same thing, but it's not my job.
8:22
It's not for me to hold her accountable.
8:24
Yeah.
8:25
And the problem is, you know, got Paul says when you marry, you'll face trouble.
8:29
And so the challenge is, you know, all marriages are struggling.
8:32
If you're struggling, you're listening to this is because you're married and so all
8:36
marriage struggle.
8:37
But there is hope.
8:38
If we can just follow what the gospel says about husbands and about wives and trusting
8:42
in.
8:43
All right, I've got a question.
8:45
So and we're going to, we're going to keep this going for a little bit.
8:49
I've heard of situations with couples where there is sometimes just a man, sometimes
8:53
just a woman, one party desperately wants counseling.
8:58
And the other side is completely unwilling, not disinterested.
9:01
They're unwilling.
9:02
So it's one thing to have a husband and a wife in your office and one of them is clearly
9:05
not interested in the process, but they're there.
9:07
But then there are other people that are some form of, no, nothing's wrong.
9:11
Why would we go to counseling?
9:12
Why would we spend that money to people just being like, this is stupid.
9:14
This isn't going to work.
9:15
Like my parents did counseling and it didn't work, that kind of thing.
9:18
So if you're the person that wants it and your spouse just is not listening to you,
9:24
not listening to advice of their friends, not listening to the pastor, whoever, like,
9:27
what is a person to do there?
9:29
You know, that's, that's very common, Kyle, and that's, that's a good call is, you know,
9:33
the first thing I'm doing if my spouse doesn't want it is I'm continuing to work on me being
9:37
the best version of me, um, humbly serving God, uh, doing the heavy lifting that I need
9:43
to do and hold myself accountable to being that person.
9:45
So number one, I'm modeling that.
9:47
Number two, I'm probably finding ways to introduce, uh, whether those are, are church conferences,
9:53
okay, or something that would introduce concepts that would allow my spouse to listen and hear
9:59
something that would enable truth.
10:01
I might even be going to counseling by myself to help me become better, but you can't force
10:05
that.
10:06
I think you got to pray for them.
10:07
And if you're not praying for them, you're, you're losing that opportunity.
10:10
But secondly, I think you have to model it and just hope that God opens up some softer
10:14
hearts and, you know, part of my job, a lot of times people walk in my office, Colin,
10:19
one wants to be there and one doesn't and a good therapist will, will be really good
10:22
at getting the other person to realize, Hey, this isn't what we thought.
10:25
I also want to mention that this is, there's a geography to that, Kyle.
10:29
Um, a lot of therapists on the east coast and the west coast, it's very welcomed.
10:35
It's very recognized.
10:36
Matter of fact, people feel it's a almost a, a hierarchy of your status in the society
10:42
because you have a better therapist than an other guy, but in the Bible belt in the
10:46
middle, it's seen as something's wrong with me.
10:48
If I go to a therapist, and so there is a little bit of geography that's affected by
10:52
that.
10:53
Do you take your therapist half hat off real quick?
10:58
You got it.
10:59
All right.
11:00
How often should couples have sexual relations?
11:03
You know, there was a study done that I have the book and it's interesting because I think
11:09
that there is no correlation.
11:12
This is what's cool.
11:13
I can't think their himself fell off.
11:14
I know.
11:15
There's no correlation between the number of times people have sex and, and the quality
11:20
that they decide the, the, uh, not quality, but the, um, the, the marriage being something
11:28
that they both enjoy.
11:29
Okay.
11:30
So the quality of the marriage and the number of sex is there's no correlation.
11:33
Now the agreed upon number of sex and the quality of marriage is a correlation.
11:37
Okay.
11:38
My husband and wife agree on how often they have sex and they're both in the same page.
11:43
Their marriage is better according to all the surveys.
11:46
When they don't agree, their marriage is bad, no matter how often they have sex.
11:51
So one thing that I look at in regards to sex is that within, within the confines of
11:58
marriage is that sometimes quality is better than quantity.
12:02
And so that's like I've had the discussion.
12:05
And my wife and I have had the discussion, not to get too in depth, but that sometimes
12:11
yeah, quantity sounds great, but what if the quality is like the other person's not into
12:15
it or the other, you know, either person's not into it, like, is it really worth that
12:19
connection that intimacy if you both aren't connected and go back to my earlier thing.
12:24
It's not about orgasm about oneness.
12:25
Yeah.
12:26
And if you, if you can achieve oneness once a week, as opposed to just orgasm twice, three
12:32
times a week, oneness is better, oneness is defined by scripture, oneness is what God
12:37
intended it to be.
12:38
And yes, that's better than several times where it's one dimensional.
12:42
And that's the problem with a lot of marriages.
12:43
I think like that's a question.
12:44
I think that's a conversation that most marriages don't have, you know, and it's, it was eye
12:49
opening when we went through, you know, that conversation and everything.
12:52
It's like, man, I never thought of it that way, but I never thought about the oneness,
12:56
you know, and like the intimacy is, is the bigger aspect than just the orgasm.
13:00
And I'll tell you, Kyle, and probably we can do this at another time, but the Bible says
13:04
sex is four things.
13:08
Intimacy is four things.
13:09
One, it's good.
13:10
The Bible says intimacy sex is good and we don't teach that.
13:14
Okay.
13:15
Our young people don't understand that second, it says it's holy and we don't teach that
13:20
either.
13:21
We don't touch it.
13:22
Third, it's owed.
13:23
And that's in the scripture and that's something we have a hard time.
13:26
We dance around that because we've misused it and forth, it's fun.
13:30
It's meant to be enjoyable, song is home.
13:33
And I wish more churches would teach those four things and we're ready intimacy because
13:36
even if we taught that, I think we'd have less issues.
13:38
Well, that was going to be my question.
13:40
Like most men that you see come in or women, what's the model they see?
13:44
What are they?
13:45
Yeah, the model they see is what they grew up with.
13:48
Some guys grew up with porn and that's the model.
13:50
Some women grew up saying it's bad until I get married and then I'm supposed to make
13:53
it good that it's dirty, that the models are what the world gives us.
13:58
You just look on social media, watch a couple movies or TV shows or whatever, that's the
14:03
model.
14:04
So they haven't disconnected it, it's still.
14:08
And most of the people I'm talking to are Christian couples.
14:10
It takes time to disconnect from that.
14:12
You know, somebody who's grew up in like Christianese and as a Christ, you know, not really a Christ
14:17
father just knew about Christ like, yeah, porn has an effect on how you and how you interact
14:23
in your marriage from beginning to end.
14:25
And I feel like, you know, we read a book, you know, not a while, a while back ago, but
14:31
I feel like we've grown up to objectify, objectify women, not to objectify women and
14:38
that there are means to an end.
14:40
And like, I remember saying like the stupidest things as like a high schooler, like I was
14:44
like, oh, yeah, I'll get married.
14:45
And then when she's when I'm 40, I'll divorce her and I'll go get a hotter, younger one
14:49
and this is like, like you just you have no idea what marriage is and what God has intended
14:55
and what love actually is until you're married until you're in the thick of it with that
14:59
person.
15:00
So this year I've gone through about 70 hours of training to be a sex therapist.
15:04
I don't know how much mean you've talked about this.
15:07
And I've been amazed how much it's automatically applied to my sessions.
15:11
And so if couples walk in my office and I say, Hey, how's your sex life?
15:15
If they see that I really want to dive into it, 75% of them want to dive into it.
15:20
Now quickly, let's get to it.
15:22
And it's just they're hungry, but no one's confident enough to talk about it.
15:26
No, no one will sit down and break away the pieces and say, Hey, let's deal with this.
15:31
Everybody's uncomfortable with it.
15:32
Even some therapists, churches uncomfortable with it.
15:34
And when you're comfortable with it and you can do a deep dive into it and both are willing
15:38
to do it.
15:39
And that's that's sometimes a different deal.
15:41
It's so effective and necessary.
15:43
Just don't pack that a little bit because you say sex therapists and then I'm sure we
15:48
got a bunch of different people thinking a bunch of different things.
15:50
So please, you know, specify exactly what that means and how is it applicable in a counseling
15:55
setting.
15:56
Yeah.
15:57
So there's a lot of counselors that'll talk about sex, but I'm going through probably
16:00
a two year process to really get into dysfunction and sexuality, improving sexual wholeness.
16:07
Because this is through a group that does it from a biblical point of view, but everything
16:10
from disorders to enhancing sexual intimacy and marriage.
16:14
And so that's kind of what I'm going to be licensed through this group.
16:18
And so it's been just amazing just some of the people that are leading me and teaching
16:23
me have written a ton of books and have done this for 30 years from a biblical side.
16:27
And it's been amazing just to sit next to them and listen to them and have them on my
16:31
phone where I can just text them and say, Hey, I got a question about it.
16:34
And we're talking about pain with intercourse.
16:36
We're talking about female problems.
16:37
We're talking about ages 60 to pornography and everything that's done to young people.
16:42
Every gamut of what gets in the way of healthy sexuality.
16:45
This is, this is kind of where therapists can talk about it, but I don't know that they've
16:49
been trained in it.
16:51
And so that's, that's the journey I'm on right now.
16:53
So when you say healthy sexuality, like I've read some things this year for people that
16:59
have a little bit, maybe more of a romanticist or charismatic kind of point of view as to
17:05
what sex is.
17:06
It's kind of borders on a little bit of creating an icon or not, not icon, but I idle out
17:14
of, out of sex and the sex act and what it's supposed to mean for us holistically outside
17:20
of the physical.
17:22
And so when you talk about a healthy sexuality, what is that?
17:26
You know, I stay with the spiritually, emotionally, physically connected.
17:30
I'll give you just a quick example at a cloud couple come in my office and he's having erectile
17:35
dysfunction issues, older, they haven't really had intercourse in a while.
17:40
And I ask her, I said, do you like to be close to your husband?
17:42
Do you like to connect with him?
17:43
Do you like to touch him?
17:44
Do you like to be close to him?
17:46
Do you like to be naked connecting?
17:47
She was absolutely.
17:48
And I go, well, do you like to be close to her?
17:50
Do you like to be physically close?
17:52
Do you like to be emotionally close?
17:54
Do you like to hold her and touch her?
17:55
Yeah.
17:56
I said, then what's the pro?
17:57
Well, I can't have erection and we can't, you know, have intercourse.
18:01
I said, so what's the pro?
18:03
See, we're, we're too caught up on one thing.
18:05
We're not caught up on just being together.
18:08
And a lot of the problems here for a lot of men, if I'll just be with her, that, that
18:13
changes the whole dynamic.
18:14
I've been amazed at how it changed the dynamic.
18:16
If I can get someone for 15 minutes and just be focused on each other and there's some
18:20
techniques to that.
18:22
But the reality is intimacy is that emotional, spiritual, physical connection and that's
18:26
how God made our bodies and, but we're, we're so one dimensional looking for one thing.
18:31
Let's get to the finish line, let's score and we're losing the whole side of how God
18:34
made our bodies.
18:36
So when we, when we talk about healthy sexuality, even in line of that, because I think you
18:41
and I were talking about a Gary Thomas book where in the same book, there was a man that
18:48
was very voracious in his sexual appetite and his wife had none.
18:52
That's the story that everybody's familiar with or at least heard of from a, from a colloquial
18:55
standpoint, we kind of understand that meme, but then there was also the, the man that
19:00
was disinterested in sex and the woman who wanted it all the time, right?
19:04
And so when there's an inequity, which, which by the way, I feel like men don't do a really
19:08
good job of talking about this, right?
19:10
Because I've talked to my wife before and she's like, yeah, me and my girlfriends, we,
19:13
we talk about sex and different things like that.
19:15
But I just look around and I'm like, me and my guy friends, like we have deep conversations,
19:19
but none of us are like, well, this is how many times a week I do it and this is how many
19:22
times a week I do it.
19:23
And this is what it looks like.
19:24
And this is what it, you know, we don't really get into those discussions.
19:27
And so when a guy's on the side of the ledger of being unhappy with the frequency or, or
19:32
the quality or the woman, there, there seems to be an inequity there.
19:35
How to, how to deal with that, like how to approach a situation like that, because I don't,
19:39
I can't think of a couple that I've talked to where the man is like, yeah, every time
19:42
I want it, my wife wants it to, like, or vice versa.
19:45
You know what I mean?
19:46
No, I had a couple like that in my office and ever since I've been kind of going down
19:50
this path, and I, and I, I asked them to do something for me and I said, listen, for
19:54
the next couple of weeks, sex off the table.
19:57
And I said, what I want you to do is twice this week, I want you to be basically naked
20:01
in bed.
20:03
And I want you to massage her.
20:05
There's no genitalia touch.
20:06
There's no tetstutch.
20:08
All you're doing is massaging her body, but there's off limit stuff.
20:12
And you're going to do that for 15 minutes and I want it to find out what you're thinking.
20:15
I want you both to come back and tell me what your, what was going on here.
20:19
And then I actually the two days later, it was going to be reversed.
20:23
And we did that a couple of weeks because I said, I want to make sure you're into each
20:26
other without focusing on what's next.
20:29
Can you be all in on touching your wife and your wife being touched and her feeling good
20:33
and you feeling good about that process and vice versa without it being the next step?
20:38
By the second week, the guy texted me and he said, Donnie, first of all, we've never
20:42
been this close.
20:43
Secondly, we broke the rules.
20:46
But they both broke the rules.
20:48
They both talked about breaking the rules and they both wanted to break the rules.
20:51
Notice that's different.
20:53
She was so excited to have a moment of connection without that being the concept.
20:58
And it very, because when I first said this to him, I'll be honest, guys, when I said
21:01
this to him, he looked at me like, okay, Donnie, what's the point?
21:03
What are we doing here?
21:04
We're paying you for this.
21:05
That's torture.
21:06
Right.
21:07
But, but see, sometimes we got to go backwards to go forwards.
21:11
Sometimes we got to break it up and just focus on simply just the building blocks because
21:15
great intimacy, you got to start here and it builds to here.
21:18
There's no buildup if we're just trying to get here.
21:21
And so that was some of the things that I would try to get when they're so polar opposite
21:25
is how do we bring them together and then move them together up.
21:29
Okay.
21:30
Good.
21:31
Other question.
21:32
Let's go.
21:33
We got him here.
21:34
He's not going to invoice us.
21:35
Wow.
21:36
I didn't have this one.
21:37
Because I got more, but hey, y'all go.
21:39
Mine are much less detailed, but so we've got four kids.
21:43
How do you model a good physical relationship for your young kids with you and your wife,
21:50
right?
21:51
I love that question because I think when they see intimacy, when they see you still
21:56
kiss each other, when they see you hold hands, when they see that you go on date nights and
22:00
you leave them and you're still enjoying each other.
22:03
When they see there's a time for a family and a time for them, but a time where get out
22:06
of the way, she's more important to me.
22:08
He's more important to me.
22:09
That helps build a foundation.
22:11
They got to know that it didn't stop with just them and then they're still intimacy and
22:15
they're still desire.
22:16
I mean, I loved to tell my wife, she look gorgeous and man, you look good and my kids
22:21
get embarrassed.
22:22
I love that because it is affecting my adult kids now.
22:25
It's affecting the marriage and their relationship and so that's what I would say.
22:30
That was, he totally asked the question.
22:34
Okay.
22:35
Well, why you think of your next one?
22:36
I got one.
22:37
So this is serious.
22:38
So all, you know, kidding aside, you know, talking about abuse in relationships and that
22:42
can take many forms.
22:43
Obviously, there's physical, psychological, emotional abuse.
22:49
Some of it is done intentionally, some of it's perhaps not done intentionally, but abuse
22:53
happens nonetheless, you know, a lot has been made of a marriage being ending because of
22:58
infidelity or death, but not necessarily abandonment.
23:01
And so there are certain parts in scripture like I might actually want to read this here.
23:04
So this is 1 Corinthians 7, 12th or 16.
23:07
To the rest I say, I, not the Lord that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever
23:12
and she can sense to live with him, he should not divorce her.
23:15
If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever and he can sense to live with her, she should
23:18
not divorce him.
23:20
For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife and the unbelieving wife
23:23
is made holy because of her husband.
23:25
Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
23:29
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so.
23:32
In such cases, the brother or sister is not enslaved.
23:35
God has called you to peace for how do you know wife, whether you will save your husband
23:39
or how do you know husband, whether you will save your wife.
23:42
And so I guess the line there is, what does abandonment mean?
23:45
Because a lot has been made, there have been churches where here's an easy example that
23:51
people have probably heard of.
23:52
Man is physically abusive to the woman, beats her up, right?
23:56
Woman can't leave because he's not dead and he hasn't performed infidelity, right?
24:02
And so a lot of churches have been like, sorry, you can't leave and then they basically send
24:06
this woman back into the man's home to be beaten more.
24:09
And then we see other examples of churches saying, hey, look, you all have such a bad
24:13
marriage and such a bad relationship.
24:15
You just got to get out and they will violate the biblical dictates for what a marriage
24:19
can be.
24:20
So I guess that abandonment line, when there is abuse, I know physical is the one we most
24:24
think of, but when there's abuse of any kind, serious abuse, like when does it become like
24:28
abandonment, like this marriage has to end for the safety of the parties involved.
24:31
You know, it's not a black and white.
24:33
It's not a line that I can define the first thing I'd say, Kyle, is divorce is not the
24:37
impartable sin.
24:39
My dad was, has been married five times.
24:41
I grew up in divorce and you guys are well aware of my testimony.
24:45
You know, I'm a, I'm a 31 year marriage and focus in a marriage therapist because my parents
24:52
got divorced.
24:54
So let's not forget who we serve.
24:56
The God we serve can make something bad into something good.
24:58
I think it's a personal thing.
25:00
I'm never asking a wife or husband to stay in something abusive.
25:04
Now you can get out of something abusive and work on it without getting a divorce.
25:07
You can still hang on to that.
25:09
And for the people that do man more power to him, I'm, I'm in, I'm amazed by people
25:14
that will stay so long.
25:16
I don't know that I would.
25:17
I'd be honest with him and they stay and they really fight and I appreciate that.
25:21
But there are some that I know that have said, well, they're husbands and alcoholic.
25:24
I have a client that I know of that where the wife is abusive and they've decided to
25:29
leave and they hung on for years.
25:31
I mean, these aren't, these aren't quick decisions.
25:33
And they left and there were many people that said, Hey, we love you.
25:36
And they, they went on and you know, you could probably throw a couple of verses at them,
25:40
but they went on feeling that was the best thing for them and their family and they went
25:43
on to move on.
25:44
And I don't believe God holds them anymore accountable to sin than he does me and you.
25:48
And so it's a personal decision, but man, that, that abuse and that trauma has got to
25:53
be dealt with.
25:54
You can't just check that box.
25:56
It hangs on and you've got to deal with that so that you can have a successful marriage.
26:00
Some people stay in and have a deal with the trauma.
26:02
It damages the future.
26:03
And so you got to deal with it.
26:04
But I, I wish there was a line that there's not, I'm very appreciative of the people that
26:09
stay in for that.
26:10
And the ones that leave, I totally get it and I understand it and I don't believe God turns
26:14
his back on.
26:15
Okay.
26:16
Howard, Ryan.
26:17
All right.
26:18
Let's go.
26:19
So your marriage and family counselor, why are we already laughing because the look on
26:23
your right, I think we've established that one, yeah, I'm just saying, but like you base
26:29
a lot of your practice on biblical practices, ideology and stuff like that.
26:34
How do you deal with a counterculture world?
26:36
Yeah.
26:37
Like right now, like you're going to deal with families that have kids who are in different
26:40
lifestyles, maybe even couples who are in different lifestyles.
26:43
How do you navigate that?
26:45
Yeah, that's a good question for my practice and I have a practice.
26:48
You guys are aware of a therapist that's a Christian practice and I have Muslims that
26:52
see me.
26:54
I have homosexuals that have come in my office for anxiety for some things other than marriage.
26:59
I have a lot of that that happens and what they know is I'm going to love them with the
27:03
love of Christ.
27:05
A lot of people think if you come into a Christian practice, they're going to throw the Bible
27:07
at you.
27:08
And that's not true because I was on Channel 9 a while back and I told them, listen to
27:12
Christian practice should first of all, to the Christian be such an awesome place because
27:17
you're going to speak the word, you're going to teach them, you're going to pray for them,
27:21
you're going to use the Bible.
27:22
But it should be the most awesome person in place for non-Christians because you'll have
27:26
the love of Christ and someone's going to be safe and consider what you're dealing with
27:30
and not judge you.
27:31
And so that's kind of how I look at it.
27:33
The people that come and see me that aren't Christians, I don't believe, matter of fact,
27:36
I just had a lady and that I've seen eight, nine years, I've seen both her daughters,
27:40
I've seen her sister, I've seen her sister's kids, I've seen her husband and she's a strong,
27:45
strong Muslim woman and she loves coming to my practice, she knows she's accepted.
27:50
So I think we show the love of Christ, they know I pray for them, they know what I believe,
27:55
I don't hide that, but they also feel very accepted and taken care of and I'm very careful
27:59
in making sure that they're the number one priority.
28:02
Awesome.
28:03
All right, this will be the last question before we get into the Master and Commander chapter
28:06
of Acts and we'll start or we'll end as low key as we start.
28:11
So let's talk about swinging.
28:13
So we live in a town, so I don't know what it is in the water in Edmond, Oklahoma.
28:20
And so let's just describe Edmond real quick, Edmond, Oklahoma, if there is a family magazine
28:26
or periodical or publication out there at some point, Edmond, Oklahoma has been named
28:31
the best place in America to raise a family.
28:34
It's because of the high cost of living, the high per capita income, low crime rates,
28:39
you know, highest percentage of people with college degrees, because of, you know, the
28:44
property taxes and the way that it's distributed because of the school system, because of all
28:48
these different things, Edmond really is kind of an incredible place to live.
28:51
Like I feel very, very lucky that I got a scholarship and my wife got a scholarship to
28:55
University of Central Oklahoma, which is located right here in the center of Edmond.
28:59
All that's great.
29:00
It's very pristine, which means there's a lot of high income people that have, they look
29:05
great.
29:06
Like my God, they look incredible.
29:07
Their clothes look awesome.
29:09
They're always tan somehow, even in the winter, like beautiful cars that are always detailed,
29:14
perfectly manicured lawns, these gorgeous, you know, palatious homes and all these different
29:19
things.
29:20
Their kids are in, they've got private coaching at the earliest ages and all gosh, they're
29:23
all going to be national merit and they're going to get 34s on their ACT and all the
29:27
different things.
29:28
But the level of depravity that we see here in this city, especially when you talk to
29:32
pastors or counselors that know a thing or two is significant and it's in two really
29:38
nefarious areas, one is abortion because a 15 year old daughter gets pregnant.
29:44
Dad makes a lot of money, but also has a good reputation.
29:47
He needs to keep that reputation.
29:49
He's going to pay $500 for that problem to go away.
29:52
So he doesn't have to have awkward conversations down at the golf club, but then also there
29:56
is a wild swinging culture here in this town, which is just astonishing.
30:01
But on the swinging thing, it doesn't even make sense to me.
30:04
Of course, it makes sense to me that people want to have sex with as many different partners.
30:07
You know, that they want to slate that lust as it were, but like when you have someone
30:12
that comes into your office, whether they're admitting that or you have two couples that
30:15
maybe don't see the problem with it, like I know you've dealt with it.
30:18
How in the world do you even address something like that?
30:21
You know, it's tough because people aren't there to get answers.
30:24
Yeah.
30:25
They're there for someone to tell them it's okay, you know, they're there to show them
30:28
acceptance.
30:29
They're there to make it about that person, that person we don't want to scratch a service
30:33
under there.
30:34
What I just try to do, and you know, I see a lot of adolescents and a lot of adolescents
30:37
are doing stupid things.
30:39
And I was like, guys, listen, where do you want to be in five, ten years?
30:42
I said, because what you're building is not going to make you happy.
30:46
I forget who it was that basically said, you know, you climb the ladder of life and you
30:51
get to the top and it's against the wrong wall.
30:54
The people that are playing in that world are going to be the lonely of 67 year old you've
30:58
ever met in your life.
31:00
And it's not going to yield peace.
31:01
It's not going to yield, you know, people getting all the plastic surgery got to look
31:04
good.
31:05
Got to it.
31:06
Guess what?
31:07
At some point that's going to come do and the swing is going to come do.
31:09
And the boss and the living that life's going to come do this side of heaven or that the
31:14
other side of heaven.
31:15
So I just helped them understand, listen, I'm not going to judge where you're at.
31:18
That's not my job.
31:20
But are you going to be happy down the road and would you like me to explain where I've
31:23
seen others go that are living your life and I'll just give you a couple of scenarios
31:28
and you can decide if that route you want to take because you get to decide.
31:32
And so that's kind of the approach I take is listen, I can tell you some things I've
31:36
seen.
31:37
That's probably the biggest benefit I have is I've seen a lot.
31:39
And I said, Hey, this is the route you're going from what I'm seeing.
31:42
Is this where you want to go?
31:44
That explains all the upside down pineapples in the admin.
31:46
Yeah.
31:47
Why is that thing?
31:48
The funniest thing about that is flamingos to flamingos to yeah, you got there's some
31:52
about flamingos and upside down pineapples.
31:55
So that's really funny, no, it's like all about swinging.
31:58
Yeah, it's not like it's all about swinging, but there is a healthy swinging population
32:01
as far as I understand it.
32:02
But the funny thing about that is Russ, who we talked about a lot, he came into Sunday
32:06
school one day with a pineapple shirt on and pineapples were all different directions.
32:10
A lot of them were upside down before we end off.
32:14
If any of your any people reach out to you on books for healthy sexuality, marriage stuff,
32:20
you know, I'll get you whatever you need to make sure you've got it on a list of once
32:24
a direct.
32:25
You even mentioned some here that you just go ahead and give some shout outs to the ones
32:28
here because a lot of guys will just pause this and go to right to Amazon.
32:30
So any off the top of your head, go for it.
32:31
Yeah, off the top of my head, there's just there's just a few, you know, there's there's
32:37
a sheet music is probably pretty popular and you know, some of the nuances of people that
32:43
are doing it.
32:44
The ones that I've started seeing that way are designed more by, oh, there's a I'll have
32:51
to get it to you.
32:52
Yeah, I've got three or four in my office, but I don't want to butcher the names of the
32:55
offer authors, but I'll get you a few and that'll probably be the best way to get it
32:59
over there.
33:00
We can put them in the show notes.
33:01
Oh, yeah.
33:02
Cause here's the thing.
33:03
Everyone keeps asking me, where do I find the things that you said are in the show notes?
33:07
They're in the show notes guys.
33:08
So just wherever you're listening to this, just go into the show notes and I'll probably
33:11
whenever this episode comes out, like, you know, I'll get the books and then I'll maybe
33:14
post the screenshots or all that, say, Hey, in reference to what we were talking about
33:17
there, but we do need to go ahead and get into acts 27.
33:20
I didn't want to just take a little bit of time with that because I thought that would
33:22
be an interesting thing for our audience because a lot of people just kind of look
33:25
at acts 27, like it's kind of a pass through.
33:27
It's a very interesting account of something that's incredibly detailed that maybe seems
33:32
like it sticks out in the narrative and perhaps after we're done going through it, you will
33:36
come to the same conclusion, but we're going to go over it nonetheless because this is
33:39
part of God's inspired word and somehow this points to the truth of the gospel.
33:42
So we're going to start in versus one through 12.
33:46
So Ryan, if you will hit versus one through 12, please.
33:50
And when it was decided that we should sail for Italy, they delivered Paul and some of
33:55
the prisoners to the centurion of a guston cohort named Julius and embarking on the ship
34:01
of, oh, man, Adorama Anthony at them.
34:03
Let's go with it.
34:04
Yeah.
34:05
That's rough.
34:06
That's rough.
34:07
It was about to sail to the ports along the coast of Asia.
34:11
We put to us, we put to see a company, uh, man, dude, yeah, there's targets.
34:18
A massedonian from thessal, thessalonica, thessalonica, thessalonica, I mean, you know what, I actually
34:25
listened to this.
34:26
I didn't even like give you this on purpose.
34:28
This is a rough one.
34:29
This is rough.
34:30
I actually listened to this so I could get the names right.
34:32
And I totally forgot them.
34:34
I mean, how would everyone say, what was that, a dream, Tim?
34:37
Addermithium.
34:38
Addermithium.
34:39
God.
34:40
I did the same thing.
34:41
You know what?
34:42
Actually, Ryan, you're fired.
34:43
How are you?
34:44
You're going to read this section.
34:45
Read it.
34:46
No, because it would have screwed us both up.
34:47
Guess what?
34:48
Let's just start back over from verse one.
34:49
Read it, smart guy.
34:50
Oh, from verse one?
34:51
Yeah.
34:52
Verse one, one through 12.
34:53
Okay.
34:54
When it was decided that we would sail for Italy, Paul and some other prisoners were handed
34:57
over to a centurion named Julius who belonged to the imperial regiment.
35:02
We boarded a ship, Raddermithium, about to sail for the port along the coast of the Providence
35:07
of Asia.
35:08
And we put out to see Archimaeus and Macedonia from thessalonica was with us.
35:16
The next day we landed at Sidon and Julius in kindness to Paul allowed him to go to his
35:23
friends so that they might provide for his needs.
35:26
From there, we put out to see again and pass to the land of Cyprus because the winds were
35:32
against us.
35:34
When he had sailed across the open sea off the coast of Sicily and Pamphilia, we landed
35:40
at Miria and Lyceum.
35:42
After the centurion found an Alexandrian ship sailing for Italy and we put us on board.
35:49
We made slow headway for many days and had difficulty arriving off Titus.
35:56
Sorry.
35:57
When the wind did not allow us to hold our course, we sailed for the lee of Crete, opposite
36:04
Salomonium.
36:05
Salomon, sorry.
36:07
We moved along the coast with difficulty and came to a place called Fair Havens near the
36:12
sea of Lyceia.
36:16
Much time had been lost and sailing had already become dangerous because it was now after the
36:20
day of atonement.
36:22
So Paul warned them, "Man, I can see that our voyage is going to be disastrous and bring
36:26
great loss to the ship and cargo and our lives also."
36:30
But the centurion, instead of listening to what Paul said, followed the advice of the
36:34
pilot and the owner of the ship.
36:37
Since the harbor was unsuitable to winter in, the majority decided that they should sail
36:41
on, hoping to reach Phoenix and winter there.
36:45
This was the harbor in Crete, facing about, facing both southwest and northwest.
36:50
And so you go this entire narrative, you're 26 chapters and you go into chapter 27, and
36:56
it is a historical documentary.
36:59
Right?
37:00
That's gone.
37:01
This feels like some of the, because I've seen some great World War II documentaries
37:04
and I've seen some horrible ones that were incredibly boring.
37:07
These are the ones they likely showed in high school.
37:10
But like, this is such a detailed thing.
37:13
And so I don't know what it was like for you guys, because I was reading through commentaries.
37:16
I feel like most of the commentary is just kind of waved their hand over this entire
37:19
chapter.
37:20
And we're just kind of like, yes, they're showing you a lot of detail.
37:23
The detail is important.
37:24
We don't know exactly why the detail is important, but the detail is there because this is a historical
37:29
record.
37:30
And so this may not be interesting.
37:31
This may not be inspirational.
37:32
It may not end up on a coffee mug, any of these scriptures.
37:35
But it's still very important.
37:36
I think what I read in the commentaries is that at this time, it's almost wintertime.
37:42
And during that time, they did like all the ships really didn't sail because the waters
37:46
were treacherous and everything.
37:48
And so Paul's basically saying, hey guys, let's not sail.
37:52
The waters are going to be bad.
37:53
Like let's let's dock here.
37:56
And the merchant ship captain was like, no, I've got all this merchandise.
38:00
I want to get it back up to Italy because he wants to make money, you know, but he doesn't
38:04
want to sit and wait three months and win her out.
38:07
And so they're Paul basically had a prophetic, you know, thought in that fact that he's like,
38:14
we're not going to make it.
38:15
And like as we see as we go along in this chapter, they go through a lot of turmoil.
38:19
Yeah.
38:20
Yeah.
38:21
Two things jumped out.
38:22
First of all, you notice he starts with we, I think Luke joined him here and Luke hadn't
38:27
been part since about Acts 21.
38:29
So Luke is joining him and his party.
38:32
And then look at how much freedom and respect he gets.
38:37
Here he is a prisoner.
38:38
Here's what?
38:39
270 on the boat and they're listening to him.
38:42
They're giving him a voice.
38:44
He's bringing people on the ship with him like like Luke.
38:48
And so there's says a lot about his demeanor, his leadership capabilities, his personality,
38:55
just by kind of reading between the lines is at least what I was getting out of it.
38:58
But you see in second Timothy where he had wrote, he had wrote about, oh gosh, where's
39:05
that?
39:06
It's bringing me my cloak.
39:07
Bringing me his cloak.
39:08
Yeah.
39:09
So we see that historical context of it coming back into play here.
39:12
Another thing is that merchant ship had over a hundred people on board.
39:15
It wasn't like, you know, like the boat that you see like with the Jesus in the fisherman.
39:18
Like, yeah, this was a huge ship with like a bunch of people on board along with.
39:23
276.
39:24
Oh, it's 276.
39:25
Okay.
39:26
I'm bored.
39:27
That's, we see that the end of 27 and how many came off, I believe.
39:31
Okay.
39:32
Is that what it was?
39:33
Yeah.
39:34
I think it was over 200, 200, 276 is whatever.
39:35
Wherever that is.
39:36
There is two 76.
39:37
Yep.
39:38
276.
39:39
Yeah.
39:40
Yeah.
39:41
So yeah, there's a lot of people.
39:42
Yeah.
39:43
Exactly.
39:44
Like you're playing with lives now too.
39:45
Yep.
39:46
And it's about to get bumpy.
39:47
So Ryan, if you will read versus 13 through 20.
39:48
Now when the South wind blew gently supposing that they had obtained their purpose, they
39:52
weighed the anchor and sailed along Crete close to the shore.
39:56
But soon a temptuous wind called the Northeastern struck down from the land.
40:01
And when the ship was caught and could not face the wind, we gave way to it and we're
40:07
and we're driven along running under the Lee of a smallest island of Kata.
40:12
We managed that with difficulty to secure the ship's boat.
40:15
After hoisting it up, they use supports to undergird the ship, then fearing that they
40:20
would run aground on this surface, they lowered the gear and thus were driven along.
40:30
Since we were violently stormed storm troughs, they began the next day to jettison the cargo.
40:37
And on the third day, they threw the ship's tackle overboard with their own hands.
40:42
When neither the sun nor stars appeared for many days and no small tempest lay on us,
40:48
all hope of our being saved was at last about abandoned.
40:53
So at this point, I mean, this is this is bad.
40:56
Anytime you listen to any historical record of ships in turmoil, obviously there has to
41:02
be a survivor for us to kind of get an idea of what was being done.
41:05
I mean, they are doing absolute last ditch, you know, type type of things.
41:10
And we see here that it didn't look good.
41:12
All hope of our being saved was at last abandoned.
41:15
And so there's not like a sunny disposition here as to kind of where they're going to
41:18
end up.
41:19
Donnie, keep this going with twenty one through thirty eight and then we'll talk about that
41:23
whole section.
41:24
Thirty eight.
41:25
Okay.
41:26
When they had gone a long time without food, then Paul stood up in the midst and said,
41:30
men, you ought to have followed my advice and not to have set sail from creed and incurred
41:35
the damage and loss.
41:36
Yet now I urge you to keep up your courage for there will be no loss of life among you,
41:41
but only of the ship.
41:43
For this very night, an angel of God to whom I belong and whom I've served stood before
41:48
me saying, do not be afraid, Paul, you must stand before Caesar and behold, God has granted
41:54
you all those who are sailing with you.
41:57
Therefore, keep up your courage, men, for I believe God that it will turn out exactly
42:02
as I have been told, but we must run our ground on a certain island.
42:08
But when the 14th night came, as we were being driven about in the Adriotic Sea, about midnight,
42:14
the sailor began to surmise that they were approaching some land.
42:18
They took soundings and found it to be twenty fathoms and a little farther on, they took
42:26
another sounding and found it to be fifteen fathoms, fearing that they might run aground
42:32
somewhere on rock.
42:33
They cast four anchors from the stern and wish for daybreak.
42:37
But as the sailors were trying so to escape from the ship and had let down ships boats
42:42
into the sea on the pretense of intending to lay out anchors from the bow, Paul said to
42:48
the centering into the soldiers, unless these men remain on the ship, your yourself cannot
42:54
be saved.
42:55
Then the soldiers cut away the ropes of the ship's boat and let it fall away.
43:00
Until the day was about to dawn, Paul was encouraged them all to take some food saying,
43:04
"Today is the 14th day that you have been constantly watching and going without eating,
43:09
having taken nothing.
43:10
Therefore I encourage you to take some food, for this is for the preservation, for not
43:15
a hair from your head, of any view will perish."
43:18
Having said this, he took bread and gave thanks to God in the presence of all, and he broke
43:22
it and began to eat.
43:24
All of them were encouraged and they themselves also took food.
43:28
37?
43:29
Yeah, 38.
43:30
All of us in the ship were 276 persons.
43:36
When they had eaten enough, they began to lighten the ship by throwing out the wheat
43:40
into the sea.
43:42
So mid-saul is turmoil.
43:43
We go from verse 20, "All hope of our being saved was at last abandoned."
43:48
Then verse 36, "Then they all were encouraged and ate some food for themselves."
43:55
This is a very important story because we see, yes, this was a large ship.
44:00
It was a merchant ship.
44:01
They shouldn't have been out there.
44:02
Paul didn't ignore the part.
44:04
It's back in verse 21.
44:05
He's like, "Yeah, you should have listened to me.
44:07
You shouldn't have set sail from Crete and incurred this inquiry and loss, and yet here
44:12
you still did it.
44:13
But then we all kind of end with him breaking bread and giving thanks to God, and so this
44:16
is kind of, they were not comparing it to the Lord's Supper or anything like that.
44:20
But this is still important that in the midst of all of this, it's like, "No, we are going
44:24
to eat and we're going to give thanks," and it changed their circumstances.
44:28
I think they gave thanks, nobody perished.
44:30
The merchant captain wanted to save his cargo.
44:34
That got tossed overboard, but nobody lost their life, which was awesome.
44:38
That is more precious than the merchant dies on board.
44:43
So Paul had been in three shipwrecks, and here he is, just trusting God.
44:49
Here he is, the cool calm leader here, telling them, "No more perish," and then taking the
44:55
time, I don't know about you guys who want to get in a hurry, I grab some food and move
44:58
on.
44:59
I don't know that I break bread, and everybody thinks we're going to sink, and it's 14 days,
45:04
"Hey, let's thank God for this food," and so the wherewithal of his mindset and his trust
45:09
in God said, "Hey, in the midst of the storm," I mean, think of the storms you guys have
45:12
been in the last year, or several years, the storms, do we sit there and have that faith
45:18
and trust?
45:19
Hey, God's going to see us through.
45:20
Now we're wondering how far down we're going to sink when this ship hits the rocks, and
45:25
so that's such a testament.
45:27
One of the things I read that I thought was very interesting in verse 23 where he says,
45:31
"For this very night, an angel of God, to whom I belong, whom I serve, stood before
45:36
me," and he points out that piece of, "To whom I belong," and I just thought that was
45:41
very interesting, you know, when you look at, you know, he belongs to God, right, and that
45:48
encouragement and that hope, and I wrote down here, this was out of, I think, MacArthur's,
45:53
he said, "The church comes from the Greek word koriki," which means those who are possession
46:00
of or curious, or those who belong to the Lord.
46:03
This is what the true church is, it's the possession, the possessions of God and the possessions
46:08
of Lord Jesus Christ, so he's telling them, "This is who I belong to," and that unity
46:13
of that, and that's where he gets that hope and that faith and encouragement and that
46:18
piece.
46:19
This is from the angel, like, "Hey, Paul, you have to stand for Caesar," right?
46:23
Yeah, I mean, you're not going to do that out here in the middle of the ship, so you're
46:27
good, bro.
46:28
But even if you get that message at some point, you're going to be like, "Are you sure?
46:32
This has been a pretty crappy last several days.
46:34
How exactly are you going to get us out?"
46:35
It's been a pretty crappy couple of years for Paul, but I think another thing that you
46:40
take heart in is that, like, man, think of how stressful the situation was.
46:44
Nobody was eating.
46:45
They didn't eat what?
46:46
15 days?
46:47
14, 15 days.
46:48
They didn't eat anything.
46:49
So, they have no nourishment, they have no, like, strength or anything.
46:53
Paul has to encourage them, not only does he encourage them with a prophetic thing from
46:57
God telling them, "Hey, we're all going to make it, but you guys need to eat something.
47:01
You need to get some strength.
47:02
You need to be strengthened."
47:03
Because...
47:04
I was thinking...
47:05
Go ahead.
47:06
You ever been out and see where you can't see land, you can't see light?
47:09
I've been out in the middle of the sea.
47:10
Well, I mean, when you look and see how black it is, and when you can't see stars, and when
47:15
you...
47:16
You're this saying you're going...
47:17
I mean, it's just...
47:18
It's an ominous feeling of just, there's nothing there, that hopelessness, it just makes a
47:24
lot of sense.
47:25
And I think all of us probably gone through our lives where we felt that wave, and not
47:30
on a boat.
47:31
Oh, yeah.
47:32
Oh, and then you also get a little bit of perspective, because like, if you've ever been
47:35
on a cruise ship or something like that, and it's your cruise day, so that you literally,
47:38
no matter how far you look in any direction, it's just water, and you just think to yourself,
47:42
like, I'm kind of weird.
47:43
I'm like, "What if I literally tripped and fell over my balcony?"
47:46
Which would be a hell of a fall.
47:47
I mean, how do you trip over a balcony on a cruise ship?
47:50
But then you go down, and then you're just like...
47:52
And then you do that same thought experiment at night.
47:55
And okay, one of the...
47:56
We call those Kyle thoughts.
47:57
Oh, yeah.
47:58
So I...
47:59
I was like, "Hey babe, I had a Kyle thought."
48:00
It's bad.
48:01
I was like, "What if I tripped and..."
48:02
I've been guilty.
48:03
Yeah.
48:04
So, all right.
48:05
So, Donnie has these thoughts.
48:06
But there was this...
48:07
There was this movie back in the day.
48:08
It came out like when I was in high schools.
48:10
It was called...
48:11
I think it was called Open Water.
48:12
It was this husband and wife.
48:13
Sure.
48:14
Yeah.
48:15
So, it's like their honeymoon.
48:16
They go out with this snorkeling group or scuba diving group or whatever.
48:20
Well, the guy on the boat miscounts.
48:22
And so they're down exploring whatever, doing all that.
48:26
And then whenever this husband and wife come up, the boat is gone.
48:28
All the people are gone there there by themselves.
48:30
And so this movie is like 20 years old people, so like spoiler alert here.
48:34
But the scariest scene of the whole movie.
48:36
So the ending was what the ending was, so maybe I'll leave a little bit on the bone
48:39
for you guys.
48:40
I want to go watch it.
48:41
But the scariest moment was it's pitch black.
48:44
And so this is a part of the movie where you can't really see anything.
48:46
Because there's no moon, there's no stars, but there's a thunderstorm.
48:50
And so this entire scene is just audio until there's lightning that strikes.
48:56
And then they're out there literally just treading water, floating, like trying to figure
49:00
out what exactly we're going to do.
49:01
Lightning strikes.
49:02
And you see a shark fin.
49:03
And it's just like, "Hi, yo, what?"
49:07
Like of all the things, it's like we're on land.
49:10
We don't have to deal with that.
49:11
Because people were like, "Well, you scared of sharks."
49:12
I was like, "I'm not scared of sharks.
49:13
I'm scared of getting eaten by a shark."
49:15
And I can't happen when I'm sitting in my bedroom in Oklahoma.
49:18
But it's one of those things like, when you're staring into the abyss of darkness, like and
49:23
you don't know exactly what's out there and then something brushes up against your foot,
49:26
which also happened in that scene, yeah, exactly, both of y'all cringe because we all get that
49:30
same thing.
49:31
But I think we've all gotten to that point to where we think we're powerful.
49:35
We think we have control because we have a weather app on our phone.
49:38
And we think, yeah, we might know that the storm's coming, but we can't do a damn thing
49:41
to stop it.
49:42
And that's the rough part.
49:43
And I think that says a lot about how tough it was to just be calm in this situation.
49:49
I mean, a lot of our deals were still can go home and that had to feel, especially in
49:55
notice these season fishermen or these season sailors.
49:59
I mean, the guys on this boat had lived there.
50:01
I mean, these weren't newcomers.
50:04
So it says a lot about Paul.
50:06
For sure.
50:07
All right, let's go ahead and wrap up, Donnie.
50:08
Let's go ahead and hit 34.
50:09
Wait, you just read, didn't you?
50:11
He read, but he read for me because I couldn't read good.
50:14
So Ryan, this is your time to redeem yourself so you can read good out loud.
50:17
All right.
50:18
So here we go.
50:19
39 through 44.
50:20
Don't mess up.
50:21
Now I'm going to mess up.
50:23
Yeah, I know.
50:25
Now when it was day, they did not recognize a land, but they noticed a bay with a beach
50:29
on which they planned, if possible, to run the ship ashore.
50:33
So they cast off the anchors and left them in the sea at the same time, loosening the
50:37
ropes that tied the rudders, then hoistening the four sails to the wind.
50:41
They made it for the beach, but striking a reef, they ran the vessel ground.
50:46
The bow struck and remained unmovable and the stern was being broken up by the surf.
50:51
The soldier's plan was to kill the prisoners lest any should swim away and escape.
50:56
But the centurion wishing to save Paul kept them from carrying out their plan.
51:01
He ordered that those who could swim to jump overboard first and make for land and the
51:05
rest on the planks and the rest on the planks or on pieces of the ship.
51:10
And so it was that and so it was that all were brought safely to land.
51:15
I almost had it.
51:16
That was pretty good.
51:17
Like I don't know.
51:18
Dude, that's like an AF or AA minus.
51:20
That's good.
51:21
acceptable.
51:22
Okay.
51:23
We'll take a minus.
51:24
He shipwrecked.
51:25
Right.
51:26
This guy has experienced so many things.
51:27
Like obviously, you know, he took bread, things.
51:28
It is kind of a little funny where it's like, Hey guys, pause, pause.
51:31
Let's just, you know, let's just give thanks here.
51:34
Very next paragraph.
51:35
And they shipwrecked.
51:36
And so it's like, but again, like you got to think like if you're going to shipwreck,
51:40
you'd rather shipwreck in the very beginning of the storm, I guess, and not like go through
51:43
a couple of weeks of this because one of the reasons why we see that they haven't eaten
51:47
food, either they were so busy trying to keep everything like, you know, keep the ship from
51:51
going down that they didn't eat or they were so seasick that they couldn't possibly like
51:55
stomach is stomach any food.
51:57
I saw that it could have been both here.
51:59
And so they go through all that and they still end up shipwrecked.
52:01
And it actually gets worse at the beginning of acts 20 day, you'll have to come back next
52:04
week for that.
52:05
But let's talk about that right here.
52:06
I think a good thing to look at is that, at least if I'm going to shipwreck, at least
52:10
I can see a beach and sand.
52:12
Yeah.
52:13
And if you can swim, you know, you're probably going to make it rather than being like that
52:16
one couple out in the middle of the war, you know, where nobody, there's nothing around.
52:20
So like, there's hope, you know, there's hope when you can see a beach.
52:24
I took out of this more than anything is that God honored his promise.
52:28
Yeah.
52:29
And sometimes when God honors his promise, that doesn't mean it's the way we want it.
52:34
Like, Hey, you all survived, but you're shipwrecked and you're at an island and you're wet and
52:39
you're hungry.
52:40
But by the way, I honored by my promise.
52:42
And so sometimes that doesn't look the way we want it to.
52:44
But God did honors promising.
52:46
He took care of everybody.
52:47
I'll set 276 for save.
52:49
He honors his promise.
52:51
And that's one of the things for us that if we feel like God has given us a promise, like
52:54
to us specifically, right?
52:56
Not necessarily one that's here in scripture because if it's here in scripture, like you
52:58
can take the bank, but a lot of these promises were made to a particular person or to a particular
53:03
group at a particular time.
53:04
So it's for us to learn from, but it's not for us in terms of our promise.
53:08
But then there is always the promise of the gospel and that the fact that Jesus was sent
53:12
here to provide payment for our sin debt so that we could be in the presence of a holy
53:15
and just father someday.
53:16
All we have to do is accept that.
53:17
And we don't know exactly how that works with free will and sovereignty and all that.
53:20
We can debate it all day long.
53:21
We're not going to and we're not going to now, but it's just one of those things that
53:25
it is what it is.
53:26
And so if you do receive salvation, that is a tremendous thing.
53:28
But guys, we are wrapped up with acts 27.
53:31
And if you want to come back here next week, guess what, guys, we're going to wrap up the
53:33
entire book of acts with acts 28 to make sure you're read up through all the way through
53:38
the book of acts.
53:39
And we will be announcing the next book, the Bible that we're going into, which I'm personally
53:42
very, very excited about, but we're going to leave it there for now.
53:45
Come back here, ready to talk about acts 28 next week.
53:47
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost add on to life or
53:50
mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual mental
53:53
and physical resilience.
53:54
Just a reminder, we are affiliated with Crossway, a great publisher.
53:57
They've got a forging table starter set.
53:59
It is five incredible books that if you get all five, you get them at a 50% discount that
54:03
is half off guys.
54:04
You can check that out in the show notes, you can go in there and get all the instructions
54:07
there.
54:08
Where is it, Ryan?
54:09
Show notes.
54:10
Show notes is in the show notes.
54:11
And then also the log us Bible software, the most powerful of all Bible softwares on
54:14
the planet earth guys.
54:15
I used it for the entire way for my study for the book of acts.
54:19
It's been a tremendous asset to me personally, but you guys should use a log us Bible software,
54:23
but don't use it a full price.
54:24
Use it as discount.
54:25
There is a discount code that is where Ryan in the show notes.
54:27
Show notes.
54:28
Man, after last week, you know, you kind of struggled there at the end with them wondering
54:31
where all the notes were after all these years, but you're back.
54:34
I thought I thought I thought on Crossway you had to put in your code name.
54:37
No, no, it's in the show notes.
54:39
Your code name.
54:40
Your code.
54:41
What's my code name?
54:42
Code name.
54:43
I'm red dragon.
54:44
All right.
54:45
Here we go.
54:46
I don't know about red dragon.
54:47
No, no, no, it is what it is.
54:48
But here we go.
54:49
Let's kill.
54:50
Also, we are.
54:51
What do we got here?
54:52
Oh, in the show notes.
54:53
Thank you.
54:54
In the show notes, we got signs and everything.
54:55
In the show notes, we're going to have Donnie's books in there too.
54:56
So when Donnie gives you that list of books, it'll be in the show notes.
54:58
It'll be on social media.
54:59
Also before we let you go, we are a donation based ministry guys.
55:01
If you want to see more content like this, getting out to more guys around the globe
55:05
that want to be able to be equipped to be able to push back darkness, you guys have
55:08
got to hop on board become a monthly donor.
55:10
We would appreciate you considering it.
55:12
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
55:13
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
55:16
star review.
55:17
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an
55:20
email to info@undonton.life.
55:23
That's i-n-f-o @undonton.life.
55:25
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else
55:28
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
55:31
Just go to www.undonton.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
55:36
us to use their music for our content.
55:38
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
55:42
on Face Down Records.
55:43
The links are in the description.
55:45
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
55:47
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
55:54
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
56:24
[BLANK_AUDIO]