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1:00
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:24
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:27
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness
1:29
with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:32
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guides forging spiritual resilience
1:36
by digging into God's Word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:39
Now that's Ryan.
1:39
We got the OG here to the right side.
1:42
The horn is here.
1:43
Horn, you've been here since the very, very beginning.
1:44
I've been here since the start, yes.
1:46
But you and I are, we're in a little bit of a predicament here.
1:48
Because there is a risk that, I mean, we're on the same side of the table.
1:51
So obviously there could be some issues.
1:53
You smell great.
1:54
God, which by the way, what's the scent of the day?
1:56
You're vesting on it.
1:57
One more time?
1:57
You're Veds.
1:58
St. Laurent.
1:59
Okay.
1:59
That is the fanciest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
2:02
So, so everything's good on this side of the table.
2:04
The problem is, on the other side of the table, we have two gigantic question marks.
2:08
Because this is the first time, maybe since the very beginning, that we've had
2:11
not one but two people doing their maiden voyages on the show at the same time.
2:18
I've just noticed this isn't the first time.
2:21
It's not the first time.
2:21
It's not the first time, but every time it happens, I get stuck with them.
2:24
Oh, that's true.
2:26
Every time there's new people, except for Russell Eustace.
2:28
And that's actually not on purpose, because I would definitely want to have
2:32
someone else in here just in case things go poorly.
2:34
No, no, because here's the deal.
2:35
If things do go poorly, it's just me and you, man.
2:37
It's just me.
2:37
We could do it.
2:38
We could do it.
2:39
But guys, I got plenty of content.
2:40
For the very first time to new guys, we have Howard Wickersham and Donnie Van Curen.
2:45
Guys, welcome to the fourth table.
2:47
We're so happy to have you.
2:48
Okay.
2:49
So just to kind of give a little bit of a heads up.
2:52
This is like a faith Bible church, we don't call ABFs here.
2:57
Sunday School.
2:57
Yeah, they are Sunday schools.
2:58
ABF is the dumbest name anyone's ever said ever.
3:01
So, but we are all in the same Sunday school class.
3:03
And here's the interesting thing about our Sunday schools.
3:05
Well, so Donnie is one of the co-leaders of our Sunday school.
3:08
But the cool thing is we have a rotation of teachers and all four guys at this table
3:13
have taught our Sunday school on multiple occasions.
3:15
So we kind of have a little bit of an embarrassment of riches in our Sunday school,
3:18
which I'm totally fine, like hiding and not allowing to go to any other classes.
3:22
Like they can fend for themselves, but we do have maybe seven or eight different guys
3:26
that are kind of rotating through, which is awesome.
3:28
But guys, for your first thing, everybody's got to answer the same three questions.
3:32
If it's their first time on the forging table, so you're right across from me and
3:35
you're taller than Donnie.
3:36
So how are you our first, what?
3:38
We should be in rock, paper, scissors for it.
3:40
I mean, we could.
3:41
Okay, so how does everybody say it?
3:44
Because like some people say paper, rock, scissors, which is how I grew up.
3:47
How did you grow? What was it called? Rock, rock, paper, scissors, Donnie?
3:50
Same rock, paper, scissors, rock, paper, scissors.
3:52
What the heck is going down in a lot?
3:53
A lot, a pair of nothing, but it's a rock, scissors, bro.
3:57
That's this is what we call it.
3:58
You said roshambo.
4:00
Can you even spell it?
4:01
You know what roshambo is?
4:02
I don't want to play roshambo.
4:04
It's like rock, paper, scissors, but in the end, someone just kicks you in the nuts.
4:07
Like literally that's what happened to me.
4:09
Okay, I think we'll save that story.
4:13
Okay, but I guess what y'all can play.
4:15
What'd you call a rock, paper, scissors?
4:17
Rock, paper, scissors, all of you.
4:19
Okay, so where we got it?
4:20
We got established rules.
4:21
So it's got to be one, two, three, and then you throw down.
4:23
Okay, so one, two, three, then shoot.
4:26
Best two out of three.
4:27
Here we go.
4:27
We just do one.
4:28
I'm running the 40 years ago.
4:32
Okay, yeah.
4:32
All right, best out of three.
4:33
We could do a whole whole series if you want.
4:35
Yeah, we're going to go first.
4:37
All right, here we go.
4:38
Ready?
4:38
Here we go.
4:39
One, two, three, shoot.
4:40
Another secret coverage.
4:42
Okay, paper, coverage rock.
4:43
All right.
4:44
So a commanding lead of one to nothing.
4:46
Here we go.
4:46
Donnie, you got to say--
4:47
Donnie, you got to try.
4:48
Remember, it's paper, rock, scissors, shoot.
4:50
Yeah, you didn't even look like you were ready to sweat.
4:51
Here we go. Ready to go.
4:53
Ready, bet.
4:53
Okay, wait, Donnie.
4:56
Okay, we're Donnie.
4:56
It's one, two, three.
4:58
And then you throw it.
4:59
Okay, gotcha.
5:00
Okay, everybody ready?
5:01
All right, here we go.
5:02
Here we go.
5:02
We're one, two, three, shoot.
5:04
Donnie, it's too bad.
5:06
One, two, three, shoot.
5:09
There you go.
5:10
See that?
5:10
All right, is this still technically one nothing?
5:13
Yeah, it's one nothing.
5:13
People listening to this right now are like, what is wrong?
5:16
These idiots, here we go.
5:17
Okay, one another.
5:17
Okay, one, two, three, shoot.
5:19
Donnie, you got it?
5:20
Okay, one, two, three, shoot.
5:22
Paper, one, two, three, shoot.
5:25
How are we going to go first?
5:28
Congratulations.
5:29
Donnie banged a hole in the table, but that's okay.
5:31
So here are the questions that you have to answer.
5:34
You have two minutes total, to answer these three questions.
5:38
Right?
5:38
So how do you become a Christian?
5:39
How do you like to study the Bible?
5:42
And how does your mind work?
5:43
Ready to go.
5:44
So I became a Christian when I was very young at the age of seven.
5:48
So I grew up in a Christian church.
5:50
My dad was a pastor.
5:52
Pastored in a lot of churches across the Midwest.
5:55
So Indiana, Kentucky, some of those areas.
5:58
And so always knew about faith and attended church.
6:02
And so at the age of seven, I came to know the Lord.
6:06
I remember the day specifically was after church on a Sunday.
6:09
My dad and I were sitting at dinner or sitting at lunch.
6:13
And he kind of explained it more to an in-depth, personal experience.
6:19
And so I knew at that point, I was like, I want that.
6:22
I want that cleansing power.
6:24
I want to be washed wide as snow.
6:26
And so I remember that night, I wrote a letter to our pastor.
6:29
My dad wasn't the pastor at that time.
6:31
And so I wrote a letter to our pastor and said, I want to be baptized.
6:35
And so the next next Sunday, I was baptized.
6:39
But then grew up in the church.
6:41
So that's how I became a Christian.
6:42
So second one.
6:44
How do you like to study the Bible?
6:45
I love to study the Bible.
6:47
Mostly in forums like this, right?
6:50
I meet with a group of guys on a Friday.
6:52
We just open the word.
6:54
We talk about it.
6:55
Sometimes we'll study a book and sometimes we'll take an author and
6:59
take something he has.
7:00
But just love to talk about it with guys.
7:02
You grow so much in that way rather than just by yourself.
7:06
All right.
7:07
And how does your mind work?
7:08
I'm a big picture person.
7:12
I don't get into a lot of the details.
7:14
So I like to take things and summarize.
7:16
And that's kind of how I work.
7:17
Like, you know, I like to see the big picture.
7:19
And I guess that's why I would say I'm a big picture guy.
7:23
Okay.
7:23
Let me actually ask you a follow up question on that.
7:25
So as you're reading, so something like Acts, which is, I mean, this is not poetry.
7:30
Like this is not like allegory.
7:31
Like this is like straight historical record kind of a thing.
7:34
How does your brain naturally try to like use that content or categorize it?
7:41
I mean, I just think, you know, when you look at Paul, you think about the experiences you
7:45
went through in this.
7:46
And, you know, you can break those down to two or three different things in each of the chapters.
7:52
But, you know, you just see what he went through and you try to correlate that to your life,
7:57
you know, and see like, okay, what can I take from those principles and applications and
8:02
apply it to my life?
8:03
So I guess that's what I would say for me.
8:05
Okay.
8:06
Very, very good.
8:06
Well, Howard, welcome.
8:07
We are so excited to have you for this batch.
8:09
Donnie Van Kieran.
8:10
All right, you got two minutes answer all three of them.
8:12
How did you become a Christian?
8:14
How do you like study the Bible?
8:15
How does your mind work?
8:15
Yeah, I probably bought fire insurance is what I would call it when I was really young.
8:20
Second grade living in California.
8:22
They said, come up, you're going to hell.
8:23
I said, I probably ought to go up and.
8:25
Even said that in California.
8:26
Oh, pretty much.
8:27
Okay.
8:28
Now, of course, that was in the 70s.
8:29
Back in the day when Jesus was still there.
8:31
Got it.
8:32
And then as I grew up, I just followed a sinful life and a fleshly life.
8:36
And when I got married, I felt that just was in Tampa, Florida and felt that just urged.
8:41
I actually convicted, hey, were you really a Christian when you did this?
8:44
I mean, look at the fruit.
8:45
Look at the lack of fruit.
8:46
Look at your life.
8:47
And one day there, I was studying the evangelistic explosion back that time
8:52
in Tampa and asked someone to come down.
8:54
I didn't know if there was a time and a place that I could say that I accepted Christ.
8:57
And so I didn't know if I was a Christian and just feeling guilty.
9:01
The Satan was coming and using me or I needed Christ.
9:05
So I just walked down.
9:06
The pastor, I knew him very well, was teaching.
9:08
Sunny School was really involved.
9:09
And pastor said, what are you doing down here?
9:11
I said, we're going to take care of this.
9:12
I'm either Satan's on my back and I'm getting him off there or Christ is pushing me to get it done.
9:17
And so from that point on, never doubted it.
9:20
And that's where it really started.
9:22
Okay.
9:22
How do you like to study the Bible?
9:25
You know, I like commentaries.
9:26
I like to really read sometimes I'll read books, but I also like to get into subject matter.
9:30
So if I'm getting into faith and just studying faith or studying love or studying,
9:35
you know, just whatever, I like to get into word studies that'll take me through different
9:38
scriptures, but I also like to hear commentaries and hear of the other people's versions of how
9:43
they're looking at scripture.
9:44
And how's your mind work?
9:46
You know, I'm a big picture thing as well.
9:47
I see visions.
9:48
I see pictures when I'm reading stuff.
9:50
And then, but I'm a real bad application.
9:52
I want to read something and go, how do I walk out the door and use it?
9:55
How do I apply this to, you know, the year we're in, the dates were in, how do I apply it?
9:59
So when I walk out of here, I'm someone different in the way I do my job, the way I'm in my
10:04
relationship, my wife, the way I'm with my kids, I want applications.
10:07
So that's really what I'm centering on.
10:09
Okay, very good.
10:10
Howard and Donnie, you are here.
10:11
Ryan, it's been a very long time since you've answered those questions.
10:14
Well, because I was sitting here thinking like, how would I answer those questions?
10:17
So let's just do like a quixity.
10:19
So like, how do you become a Christian?
10:20
How do you like to study the Bible?
10:21
How did your mind work?
10:22
Man, my journey as a Christian, like started young and didn't really end until I was like 33.
10:29
I grew up in the church, my dad worked for the church.
10:34
All I could remember is going to church and doing church things, but I never really understood
10:39
the gospel.
10:41
Got older, went in and out of church.
10:43
As I moved out of my house, I actually just found the church closest to my house and just
10:47
went there.
10:48
So I was kind of like what you would call a cultural Christian, is that what a Dawkins
10:52
calls himself now?
10:53
Richard Dawkins?
10:54
Yeah.
10:55
Yeah.
10:56
So I was asked Christian, cultural Christian, didn't really understand anything.
11:00
And then when I was 33 years old, I just got hit with the gospel.
11:03
Just was in a bad church.
11:04
Church that was a good kind of gave you a wrong theology in life.
11:09
And I went and studied, you know, kind of looked at different theologies and then somebody
11:13
who just poured in my life actually asked me what is a gospel and I couldn't tell.
11:18
And finally, you know, started digging into the Bible, actually reading the Bible for
11:23
myself rather than listening to somebody else.
11:26
Basically, I would say what they call it, the Baptist term, rededicated your life.
11:30
So, you know, there are two lines at every church camp.
11:32
There's I want to get saved and I want to rededicate, I would say that's when I feel
11:36
like I've I became a Christian at like 33, 34 years old, totally blew my mind on what
11:44
Christ did for us on the cross.
11:47
And then from there, how I like to think, I don't know, like sometimes I'm really quick
11:50
on my feet.
11:51
I'll say, what's exactly on my mind, I kind of have a hard time listening.
11:57
So I got to listen a little bit more, but I'll like, I'll just say what I just saw in
12:02
my mind.
12:03
No one's ever thought that about you, so this is all surprising information.
12:06
That's my wife.
12:07
Yeah.
12:08
So, but but sometimes like to sit and stew, like if I'm around a new environment with new
12:12
people, like I know all you guys, I'll just shoot at the hip, but if I'm in a new environment,
12:16
it's kind of funny.
12:17
I'll sit back and I'll just watch and listen, because I just want to I kind of want to know
12:22
who I'm working with.
12:23
So that's kind of how I think and then and how I study the Bible.
12:27
I just read it.
12:28
I read it.
12:29
I like commentaries like Donnie too.
12:31
I like commentaries by Sproul, been really into RC Sproul lately.
12:35
Yeah, we're going to we're going to butt heads on.
12:36
Oh, we won't butt heads, we're probably.
12:38
Yeah.
12:39
Howard Buzzed up the Sproul commentary.
12:40
Yeah.
12:41
Well, I'm sure his wife filled it out for him.
12:43
Don't worry.
12:44
She's a good one.
12:45
But like I like commentaries, but actually I just like to get into the word.
12:51
I like to like the way that I do this is I'll read it, then I'll highlight it, then I'll
12:55
put down what I think it's saying, and then I'll pray about it, and then I'll go back,
13:00
read it again, and then go through commentaries.
13:02
You do actually bring up a very important point about Lady Wickersham, because of all
13:05
the women that I know, she probably does more for her husband than anybody else.
13:09
Like you the last time I was at your house for dinner, you literally made this comment.
13:12
I thought you were kidding.
13:13
You definitely were not because you have the disposition of a golden retriever.
13:17
You're always happy.
13:18
So I don't know if you're, I don't know if you're kidding.
13:20
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or any of those things.
13:22
You said, I've never went, I've never been to a grocery store.
13:25
Like I've never gone to the grocery store to like get groceries.
13:27
I was like, haha.
13:28
And you're like, no.
13:29
And so like, did Lady Wickersham like prepare your notes for you or anything like coming
13:33
in here?
13:34
Or was this all on you today?
13:35
This was all on me today.
13:36
It's all on me today.
13:37
It's on computer right now.
13:38
This is just risk.
13:39
I honestly wonder like you look over at his notes and they're written, but you'll see like
13:43
little hearts above the eyes.
13:44
I know this little lady.
13:46
She's got to have great handwriting.
13:47
I did grocery shop once though when she was pregnant.
13:50
I did the grocery show.
13:51
Oh, you didn't make her go.
13:53
I didn't make her go.
13:54
Yeah.
13:55
Do you keep bringing that up to her?
13:56
Be like, do you remember that time when you really like sold me out and you ever bring
13:59
that up?
14:00
No.
14:01
She's fantastic.
14:02
We got a bunch of fantastic wives here.
14:03
Yeah.
14:04
Right now.
14:05
So it's funny because Donnie and I, me and your wife, we have a really funny relationship
14:08
because she's so sweet that in her presence, I will try to say some of the dark.
14:13
Delicious, most heinous things I can think of, and it never lands negatively.
14:17
She just looks at me and smiles and goes, Kyle.
14:20
That's exactly right.
14:21
Come on.
14:22
I think the words precious.
14:23
Yeah.
14:24
Yeah.
14:25
Yeah.
14:26
How did you?
14:27
She called you precious.
14:28
She called you precious.
14:29
What was the context?
14:30
I forget because I remember she called me that.
14:31
I was like, I was like, man, Kyle, and she's like, he's so precious.
14:34
And then we're, are we talking about the same guy?
14:37
Oh, come on.
14:38
Of all the things that I've been called, like that is not my favorite lady, Van Kieran
14:42
story.
14:43
I started going to the A.B.F.
14:44
This was four years ago.
14:45
This is great.
14:46
This is great.
14:47
Am I okay?
14:48
This is your first class.
14:49
This is your first class, right?
14:50
This is my second class.
14:51
Okay.
14:52
Second class of the first class.
14:53
We come in.
14:54
This guy comes and talks to me.
14:55
He's like, hey, I'm Kyle.
14:56
And you know, when you meet Kyle sound like that, and he's selling it.
15:00
No.
15:01
He's doing [inaudible] jiu jitsu.
15:03
No.
15:04
Why are you being so breathy with that like that?
15:06
That's what I was wondering.
15:07
I was like, yeah.
15:08
No.
15:09
But Kyle comes and talks to me.
15:10
Kyle's really great.
15:11
He actually asked me a lot of questions about myself rather than just like somebody I talked
15:14
about himself.
15:15
And then he points me off to Adam Smith because I think Adam Smith just had surgery on his
15:18
arm.
15:19
Yeah.
15:20
Yeah.
15:21
And so, but we're in the class and I can't remember who was teaching that day.
15:26
Maybe it was Donnie, but the next class we come back and Donnie, Donnie and Heather sit next
15:31
to us and you're up there giving your testimony and like, I am not a touchy feeling.
15:39
I am now.
15:40
Over years ago, I was not a touchy feeling person like the only person I probably ever
15:44
hugged was my mom, you know, and my wife, you know, like, I don't really hug.
15:49
And so all of a sudden I'm just sitting there and I'm listening and I look and I feel this
15:54
just rubbing my back just like this.
15:57
And I look over.
15:58
I look over right here.
16:00
I'm like, wait, that's my wife right there.
16:02
That's my wife right there.
16:03
He's ready.
16:04
And then I look over here.
16:05
And I was like, this lady is rubbing my back.
16:07
Lady Vanke.
16:08
Lady Vanke.
16:09
I was like, I was like, and it was just like, I don't know, your lady vanke here is so,
16:15
how do you want to say nurturing and maternal, like she's like, she's like, she's like a
16:19
mom, like a really young mom, so she needs to, she's the worst mother.
16:23
You said young mom.
16:24
Yeah.
16:25
She's a really young mom.
16:26
She just needs to see the worst in people because like I try to say the worst and she
16:30
just, it just never lands when she baked you a cake.
16:33
Yeah, she did.
16:34
There's no one in the class that has a cake that's been baked for.
16:36
Baked me a cake and I got her a first shot of a drone.
16:40
Yeah.
16:41
That's true.
16:42
That's a story for another day.
16:43
But I do, I will say that that is, it is kind of funny too, because whenever I teach
16:47
Sunday school, because I teach maybe three or four times a year or something like that,
16:50
she gets like giddy beforehand because she just, well, I don't, the thing is I don't
16:55
understand why, because when I do teach Sunday school, I don't just fall in line with whatever
17:00
the, with the thing we're talking about or like, you know, I've talked about abortion
17:04
in there.
17:05
It's about Pride Month and kind of the history and all the things that go into that.
17:07
I talked like the weekend after the Hamas attacks on October the 7th, I came in and talked
17:13
about all the atrocities and all that.
17:14
It's like, it's all rough stuff.
17:15
So when we who travel, we'll drive to Colorado, we'll drive places and we'll listen to your
17:19
podcast.
17:20
And one of the things Heather said, after your last lesson, I don't remember what you're
17:24
teaching off-hand Kyle, your last thing she goes, Kyle does is research.
17:28
She goes, and she's heard you since Barzell.
17:31
I mean, Kyle, she's heard you teach--
17:32
That was the last Sunday school class.
17:33
And what she loves and she, you know, the topics are, but she's like, he does his research.
17:39
She has good, he has good information.
17:41
I always walk away feeling like I learned something.
17:43
And that's what Heather loves about it.
17:45
Well, and here's the cool thing about going into Sunday school because sometimes I never
17:48
want to mail it in on anything that I do.
17:51
So whether it's preparing for a podcast or a speech or Sunday school or something like
17:54
that, the cool thing about our Sunday school class is it's one of the few times that I
17:58
talk to mixed audiences.
17:59
I mean, I do present to mixed audiences, but it's one of the few times where I'm talking
18:03
to a mixed audience where everyone kind of knows what I'm about, like that they know
18:06
who I am.
18:07
They kind of am aware of like the level of crazy and intensity and all that.
18:11
And so if I'm trying to work through a subject matter or a thought, I kind of use our class
18:16
as a bit of a sounding board.
18:18
So I think the last one I did was on Godly companionship.
18:21
Yeah, that's right.
18:22
Yeah, and it was just kind of like, what does that look like?
18:25
How does that, you kind of work itself out in a normal setup?
18:27
You talked about it in your dog.
18:28
Yeah.
18:29
Yeah, that was right after I lost Roman.
18:30
That's right.
18:31
Okay, because Ryan showed up, tell me bury my dog, Russ, the other leader, Russ, the ring
18:38
leader from my foxhole showed up and neither one of them were told to, right?
18:41
They just did.
18:43
And there were a bunch of other guys that found out what happened.
18:45
They're like, crap, if I had known I would have come and I know that they mean it.
18:49
And so I was like, okay, what is that?
18:50
Like, what is this?
18:52
How do you get to mark to where you have guys that are willing to destroy someone's personal
18:55
property to get someone to the feet of Jesus, like, and it's just like, do you have, you
19:00
know, format toters as Joby Martin calls him or something like that.
19:03
One thing I want to kind of put a pin in this because we do need to dig into acts 25, but
19:08
maybe next week, Ryan, one thing that you talked about when you were sharing was you
19:12
couldn't answer the question.
19:13
What is the gospel?
19:14
Yeah.
19:15
So I put that on you to remember that for discussion for next week.
19:18
So maybe we can start there.
19:19
Let's go ahead and dig into acts 25 guys.
19:21
We were working towards the end of the book of acts.
19:24
We have Paul.
19:25
That's, you know, he's about to, you know, appeal to Caesar in this moment.
19:29
And so, Howard, let's go ahead and rip off the band aid.
19:32
You were going to read out loud in front of all the people in the audience.
19:35
Again, just talk directly into the mic.
19:36
You only have to read five verses, though, versus one through five.
19:39
Let's go.
19:40
Okay.
19:41
Three days after arriving in the Providence Festus went up to Caesarea to Jerusalem where
19:46
the chief priests and the Jewish leaders appeared before him and presented the charges against
19:50
Paul.
19:51
They requested Festus as a favor to them to have Paul transferred to Jerusalem where
19:57
they were preparing an ambush to kill him along the way.
20:00
Festus answered, Paul is being held at Caesarea and I, myself, am going there soon.
20:07
What some of your leaders come with me and if, uh, if the man has done anything wrong,
20:12
they can press charges against him there.
20:14
So Howard, which version of the Bible are you reading?
20:16
Uh, NIV.
20:17
Sorry.
20:18
NIV.
20:19
Donnie, what do you read from?
20:20
I got a new American standard.
20:21
Okay.
20:22
So we got NASME, ESV and NIV here at the table guys.
20:24
So no matter what, some of y'all are happy and satisfied.
20:27
Can you read it in Yiddish?
20:28
I actually can read it in, uh, is it Pigeon?
20:32
Oh, no.
20:33
Okay.
20:34
We should do one.
20:35
Can you get it up in Pigeon real quick?
20:36
Ryan, you have the message on there, don't you?
20:38
Yeah.
20:39
Ryan is a big message guy.
20:40
Yeah.
20:41
He's big on things that aren't actually scripture.
20:42
Yeah.
20:43
Yeah.
20:44
You, you look it up.
20:45
Well, we'll have you, we'll have you read here.
20:46
So just to back up a little bit.
20:47
So we saw back in acts, uh, 24.
20:50
So Felix was whole part of this entire process. And so according to Josephus, um, he was the
20:56
Jewish historian at this time, he was recalled to Rome.
20:59
Felix was recalled to Rome because he really savagely put down this, uh, dispute that was
21:04
going on between the Jews and the Syrians.
21:06
You know, the Romans were known as heavy handed, but even by Roman standards, he acted in a
21:10
heavy handed manner.
21:11
And so this, this did not really bode well.
21:14
But we see here, even in the beginning part of acts 25, the Romans had basically three
21:19
stages of law and justice. And so the first stage is that charges were formed and sustained
21:24
by a prosecutor. So that's stage one, stage two. And this is coming from the stock commentary.
21:29
By the way, I love the stock commentary for acts.
21:31
The second stage was proper formal accusation by the interested party. So you can't just
21:36
be accused by some rando. You have to be accused by the interested party. And then the third
21:41
was the case would be heard by the holder of the Imperium in person. So essentially the
21:45
accused would be able to see their accuser face to face. They'd be able to face their
21:49
accuser. And so if we look forward to, you know, 2000 years later, where we are now,
21:53
we see some similar things. There are some issues in the justice system for sure. But
21:57
we see that even here in this first part. So anything on the first five verses, let's
22:01
go ahead and jump in.
22:02
I think what's really cool is Festus is like a total, uh, it's totally different than Felix.
22:08
And that Felix was kind of a different reputation for sure. Yeah. He was like Felix was a procrastinator.
22:12
Didn't he like leave Paul in jail? So like, he was like waiting for him to like, yeah,
22:18
maybe he'll give me money and get out of here. Yeah. So like he was like kind of procrastinated.
22:23
And then here comes Festus. Festus is like, Oh, I'm going down. I need to see what's going
22:27
down over here. And I just think it's crazy. Like, Festus comes down there and that all
22:32
of a sudden they're like the, uh, Jewish chief leaders are already ready. Like, Hey, let's
22:36
try to get them. Let's try to get him to Jerusalem so we can kill him. You know, like they already
22:41
have it like planned out with this new guy. And this new guy is like, Hey, you know, like,
22:45
sorry, it doesn't work that way. You know, like maybe he needs to do a face as accuser.
22:48
So you guys can bring some people up there or down there with me. So I thought it was,
22:52
I thought it was pretty cool to look at the difference between Festus and Felix. That's
22:55
the thing to jump out at me is that sin, the more we feed it, the more it just sticks around.
23:00
And for two years he's in prison, they're just waiting for him to come back so they can
23:03
continue to exert that hatred that we have. And we see that so much in our society. It
23:08
doesn't go away because it gets docile because it's dormant. It comes back. And sin just continues
23:15
to stay in our lives. We feed it. It gets worse and they're just waiting to pounce. You
23:19
think after two years like, okay, let's get on with life. This didn't happen about time
23:23
heals all wounds, right, man? It's a great bumper sticker. It really, really is. Well,
23:28
that's okay. So I actually want to maybe park there for a little bit. So this time heals
23:32
all wounds thing because, you know, Donnie, you're a licensed family therapist and in different
23:36
things like that. And so you've literally dealt like you've, you've jumped neck deep
23:40
in the muck with people who have like legitimate wounds. Not somebody asked me where I was from
23:44
and that's a microaggression, but like real issues. For some people, time is actually
23:50
the worst thing because the further away they get from whenever the atomic bomb went boom,
23:56
the worst it actually gets in their brain because I don't think it was you that said
23:59
this, it was someone else that was kind of in our, in our world, like, because someone
24:02
was trying to describe what post traumatic stress is or what that seems like. It's like,
24:06
okay, you have a record playing only negative things and it's on skip. Right. So what you
24:13
want to get to is where you have the thought or the memory or the whatever, and you can
24:17
let the song play even if the song's terrible and it sucks. So anything by the Beatles or
24:21
anything like that. So even if it's terrible, you wait until it's over and then it's over,
24:25
right? The problem with something like that is it just spins and spins and spins so you
24:29
can get away from the issue, but it still sucks, maybe worse. When you see this a lot
24:32
in politics where we continue to feed that hatred, we feed, we see it on social media,
24:37
we read about it, we talk about it, and that's just a feeding. You know, I've read a lot
24:41
of commentary where we talk about, you know, how do we kill that plant when we stop feeding
24:45
it? You stop watering a plant, it dies, but when you keep watering, it grows. And that's
24:49
how I've seen hatred and anger, especially from man to man or man to woman, et cetera,
24:54
you just continue to feed it and it grows and it doesn't go away. We just keep feeding
24:58
it. Just like you said, it goes round and round.
25:00
I had an employee, you know, got here in the last six months that came to me and was expressing
25:06
some frustration about some things that he had had harboring for years. Like, I had
25:12
no idea. And he comes to me frustrated about that. I'm like, heck, if you would have just
25:17
came up and had a conversation with me, we would address that and squashed it. But for
25:21
two years, he harbor didn't never told me about it. And I'm like, did he give you any
25:25
like reason as to maybe why would these just conflict avoidance or something like he said,
25:29
it's just one of those things. A lot of these guys just they harbor things inside and they
25:33
think, well, I just internalize it and it'll eventually go away, try to suppress it down
25:37
deep. And then two or three more situations happen. And then they finally explode. And
25:43
when he came in and talked to me, it was almost explosive. Like, and after we talked
25:47
about it, he was like, okay, I feel better about that now.
25:49
Well, Ryan, this actually came up this week in a conversation that we were having. There's
25:55
seems to be a very fine line for guys. So think of your group text with like your best
26:00
guys, right? So not just your golf and buddies or your drink buddies or your, you know, let's
26:03
go watch the fights buddies. But like, you know, your dudes, right? So your three AM friends,
26:08
your foxhole guys or something like that, there seems to be a fine line between if I
26:12
send this to them, I'm just complaining. And I'm just like whining, whatever. Or, you know,
26:19
over to this other side is like, no, this is appropriate. I'm modeling what humility
26:23
is and that I need help and things like that. And in, I'll, I'll just kind of give the give
26:28
the scenario. So I was having, if you looked on paper, I was having a bunch of really good
26:33
things happening all at once, right? So like, you know, gosh, what a cool thing, what a cool
26:37
thing, what a cool thing, what an interesting thing, what a blessing. But my thoughts and
26:41
my mindset was not matching the resume, right? Or the back of the baseball card. And so obviously
26:46
there's a spiritual component to this, a spiritual warfare component to this. So what I did was
26:51
I sent a text out to, you know, then, you know, the core forging table guys. And I was just
26:56
like, I'm not fishing for compliments. Like I don't need anything. But I'm struggling
27:01
right now. I'm in a bit of a rut. Like I can't seem to, to break free and get out of it.
27:07
And that was it. But even sending the text, I was like, Oh, like, am I just being like
27:11
a whiny dude, like, you know, kind of whining and crying to my friends? And obviously if
27:15
I did that every day, it's like, okay, do check it up, like just, you know, figure it out,
27:18
like, you know, go, go away. But I feel like men, especially, and we have, you know, 95%
27:23
men in our audience right now, we kind of struggle with kind of where that line is.
27:26
Yeah, I mean, I think your text resonated with me. And the fact that I was kind of dealing
27:31
with some stuff too, some spiritual warfare. And yeah, and I was like, Hey, man, I wish
27:35
I had, I wish I had the cajonas to actually send out a text. I am but the other thing
27:39
that I look at too is like, I want to burden you guys with that. You know, even as much
27:43
as you guys are like, Hey, we need to, you know, we need to burden each other with our
27:47
burdens, you know, and it's just like, you know what, this is something I can, I can
27:50
deal with, I need to put my trust in God and, and, and just, you know, try to stay on top
27:54
of it. But no, it just kind of resonated that I'm like, Hey, man, there's nothing wrong
27:57
with doing that actually opened me up.
27:59
Yeah.
28:00
What we leave it loses intimacy. You know, we, when we're not transparent, we lose intimacy,
28:04
whether that's with your friends, whether that's with your wife, your husband, you're,
28:07
you know, whatever the case is, you lose intimacy because you don't have transparency. And yeah,
28:12
we convince ourselves that that's the right place to be the man. And once we drop across
28:16
that line, I mean, me and you have dealt with that before, once we cross that line, it's
28:20
a different relationship.
28:21
Yeah. Well, Donnie and I have been very intimate. So you just had to, I was like, we're all
28:27
going to be adults here and we're just going to be able to move past it. You just couldn't
28:29
just couldn't move past it. No, because you're going to, you're going to know I wasn't using
28:33
it against me. No, actually, I am going to use something against you because you said
28:38
that today in Sunday school, yes, I'm going there. So I just got a brand new pair of Western
28:44
boots. I got, yeah, it's going to get bad. Right. It's going to get bad. I got a brand
28:49
new pair of Western boots. Like they're great. There's the area boots. They're, you know,
28:53
ostrich boots and things like that. Yeah. Ryan is losing it right now if you're watching.
28:58
And so for whatever reason, I got put this like tag on the inside of the, the like pools
29:03
on the boots. And it was basically made out of sandpaper. And so I was just telling Ryan,
29:06
like, yeah, I'm just going to, you know, get this cut off and all that. So it'll just be
29:09
ostrous on the inside. And he's just like, Oh, I just wear a taller socks. I was like,
29:13
yeah, you know, all my socks are roughly this size. And that's where the conversation could
29:17
have stopped. But for whatever reason, Ryan decided to offer up one of the more hilarious
29:22
things that I've ever like heard or seen before, this dude proceeds to take off his boot and
29:27
he's got normal socks on. And then he's got other socks from the ankle up on. So not two
29:37
pairs of socks, not tall socks. He's got normal socks on. And then just the, what is
29:43
that? The shoot or the flute or just the top part? The tube of the two sock him by. Yes.
29:49
He cut him, cut him like an animal. He's just like, well, and I was like, Ryan, they sell
29:56
tall socks. He's like, yeah, but they're too thick. What if I wear them in the summer?
29:59
I'm like, they sell tall socks for the summer to Ryan. Our conversation was just so intimate.
30:05
I thought I could open up to you. No, that was not it. We were, we had just started talking
30:10
in Sunday school. So, so what is up with that? We hit another level. We had cigars.
30:13
Well, I mean, we did, we didn't share some things. We had some memories. Where did you
30:18
get this idea? Dude, it just came to me. You're like, interesting, like where to get socks
30:23
for your boots? I got, I got those boots and they're like, they're naturally taller than
30:26
all the other boots I have. And so I was like, so I went in my butt. He's like, these Wrangler
30:32
socks that go up to like your needs, basically. But they were like really thick and I hate
30:37
wearing them in the summer and went outside and so I was too cheap to look at Amazon and
30:45
some. And so I like to cut the most. So guys, we have a GoFundMe in the show now. We're
30:53
raising money. Ryan makes a good living, but apparently he can't afford 20 bucks for some
30:58
socks or something like that. Just like, hey, man, I'm just trying to recycle, man. No,
31:04
just trying to recycle my part. No, this is bad. I swear I wasn't ever showed you. I
31:10
swear I wasn't going to bring you today to of all the days. Right. You could have just
31:15
we could have just skated right passes. I do not figure that one out, right? Because I'm
31:19
an idiot. No, no, you're not an idiot. But that is one of the dumber things that I've
31:22
ever seen. But no, that's I didn't plan to bring that up. But it just, you couldn't leave
31:26
that that comment. I'm sorry. I didn't leave. Donnie and I were making eye contact when
31:30
he said intimacy. So we're going to split y'all up. We can split y'all up. This doesn't
31:34
have to get awkward. It's even getting awkward for the people watching on YouTube and rumba
31:38
land. Donnie is like one of my best friends. Yeah, we're my mentor, my spiritual mentor.
31:43
We're all bros here. This is this is good stuff. So Donnie, actually, let's keep this
31:46
going. Let's read acts 25. We're going to do six through 12, please. I find it here. After
31:53
they had spent not more than eight or 10 days among them, he went down to this area. And
31:59
on the next day, he took this hit, he took his seat on the tribunal and ordered Paul
32:04
to be brought after Paul arrived. The Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood around
32:09
him, bringing many and serious charges against him, which they could not prove. While Paul
32:14
said in his own defense, I have committed no offense either against the law of the Jews
32:20
or against the temple or against Caesar. But Festus wishing to do the Jews a favor answered
32:26
Paul and said, are you willing to go up to Jerusalem and stand trial before me on these
32:31
charges? But Paul said, I am standing before Caesar's tribunal or I ought to be tried.
32:36
I've done no wrong to the Jews as you also very well know. If then I am wrong, a wrong
32:43
doer, I have committed and have committed anything worthy of death. I do not refuse
32:47
to die. But if none of these is true of these things, the men accuse me, no one can hand
32:54
me over to them. I appealed to Caesar. Then when Festus had conferred with his counsel,
32:59
he answered, you have appealed to Caesar to Caesar, you shall go.
33:03
So here we go. The road to Rome is heating up right now, but this really does put Festus
33:07
in kind of a predicament here. And so, you know, one thing that as y'all were talking
33:12
about the difference between Felix and Festus, it seems like Felix was like operating as kind
33:16
of an insecure leader. And then Festus was operating as a secure leader because I think
33:20
we've all been under the leadership of an insecure leader. They're typically fairly
33:24
brash and very forward and mean and striking and someone that's, you know, more secure
33:28
in their account. It's not going to do that. But the predicament is if he executes, you
33:33
know, Paul without, you know, any grounds to, because even Paul says up in verses verse
33:39
seven, you know, they had serious charges against him that they could not improve. If
33:43
he executes him, that's going to [inaudible] off Rome because it's, it's a direct injustice.
33:48
But if he releases him, he's going to [inaudible] off the Jews. And so what a lot of these Roman
33:53
leaders and governors and things like that, they were just trying to keep the peace as
33:58
Rome was spreading war, which I know sounds ridiculous, but they were conquering. But then
34:02
once conquered, they wanted everything to kind of chill and be relaxed. And so this
34:06
is, this really is quite the predicament. And we see Paul here, he's not just like,
34:11
you can see he's not really afraid to die in verse 11. I do not seek to escape death.
34:16
But he's just basically saying there's no, there's no there there. So can we just like
34:20
get through this so that I can get back to doing my ministry, please?
34:23
I think one thing to look at is, you know, I think if Festus, if he ended up going down
34:29
to Jerusalem and judge by Festus, I think he would have been found not guilty as we read
34:36
on. But the other thing is too is, you know, we have to go back earlier in which the Jews
34:41
were plotting to kill him. And so he got to be aware of some sort of plot to kill him
34:46
on the way to Jerusalem. So the only way to stay alive is to appeal to Caesar.
34:50
Well, I think what's interesting if you look at both Festus and Felix, like the Jewish
34:55
leaders were trying to get them under their thumb, right? Like they knew and they wanted
34:59
to get Festus there just as quick as they could like they had Felix. And so, I mean,
35:04
if you look at that, he's like, I know I've got to do something. That's why he's trying
35:07
to show him favor by doing something, but he can't go against his Roman, you know, rights.
35:12
And that's true. You wanted to say something, wasn't this pretty much Paul's fourth defense
35:17
and he'd been in prison two years. So this is, I think all the parties knew where we were
35:22
going and where we've been. And it just shows that that we just kept going round and round
35:26
with the same thing. Paul's, you know, going to defend himself and basically put himself
35:31
in this position. Jews are going to continue to say, Hey, we're going to try to get you.
35:35
And then, you know, Festus or whoever was, you know, running the show right there was
35:39
trying to get out of it and make everybody happy. And that's true. But I think Festus
35:43
had a little bit more of what do you want to call it? Character, nobility, a little bit.
35:47
Yeah, then Felix and the fact that he wanted to govern in the right way. I mean, he was
35:53
very proactive in how he dealt with things. And but he also didn't really give into the
35:58
Jews either. They're like, Hey, bring him down to Jerusalem. And he's like, no, like
36:02
he needs to face his accusers before I ever do anything like that. And so you guys are
36:06
welcome to come with me. And and so I think like, you know, Festus, I think of Festus
36:12
as like Pontius Pilate and the fact that he's like, you know, like, Hey, I want to appeal
36:18
to the Jews, but I washed my hands of this rather than actually doing the right thing.
36:23
One, what we see for most of these people is the Romans. Remember, we have to go back
36:27
to why was Felix recalled to Rome? Because he was too heavy handed. It wasn't that they
36:34
that he was violent and putting down a rebellion or or this issue. It was that it was way too
36:39
much. And so the Roman, I guess philosophy did, I guess, have an ideology of fairness
36:46
and appropriate amounts of pressure. And here's the thing with Rome is Rome did not buy into
36:50
this whole, I forget what it's called. But like, you hit me this hard. I'll hit you just
36:55
as hard. It's like, if you hit me at all, I'm going to crush you into powder. Like that's
36:59
basically how how Rome responded. But once everything settled, it's like, we need to
37:03
keep things in this kind of settled down manner. And so it seems like Festus was certainly
37:08
one of the more effective guys that we see, even though he's kind of like a minor character
37:12
here in this whole ideology. Anything else on this first, these first 12 verses before
37:16
we move on. All right, now Paul is going to be going for a gripper in Bernice. So Ryan,
37:22
if you will hit 13 through 22, are you going to read it in pig mailing or whatever it was
37:28
called pig me? All right, give us a couple of verses and was it pig me? Yeah, it's a Hawaiian
37:33
pigeon. All right. All right. Here we go. Acts 20, 25 and it's actually called Jesus
37:39
guys. 25. Yeah. All right. Well, let's see how far this goes. Governor Festus comes to
37:45
Caesarea side to take charge and three day later, you go, oh, wait, that's a wrong one.
37:52
I don't think anyone noticed that. Oh, yeah. Starting verse 13. Yeah. Bumbai King Agrippa
37:56
and Queen Bernice come Caesarea, forgive a deal Aloha to Festus because they're going
38:02
to stay over there a long time. Festus tell King Agrippa, both Paul, you tell, get one
38:07
guy over here. That Felix leave inside the prison. I can't even read it. When I win go
38:14
Jerusalem, the main priest. Right. How did you find this? Like why, why is this up on
38:22
your personal laptop? I mean, I actually like was looking at different, but you know how
38:29
I told you guys like it, I collect different Bible translations. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was
38:33
just looking at like unique Bible translations and I found this one and I'm just like, it's
38:39
amazing. Like just like, cause like this is an actual dialect in Hawaiian pigeon and we
38:46
laugh about that Gen X Bible. Was it the Gen Z Bible Gen Z Bible? But like, like this is
38:52
actually like a Bible made so the people could actually understand it. And I just love how
38:57
it just gives off like a Jamaican like, Hey, mom, feel what I read it. Well, that's going
39:02
to make all the people in Hawaii listening to this very mad because they're not Jamaican
39:05
and how they're well, I know I know, but it's got an island flair like it's got an island
39:10
pool, a proper flair to it. Well, dude, it's amazing how they came up with these words.
39:15
Can you play some background music? I don't think we can. Yeah. Yeah. This is going to
39:18
be my relative. Yeah. I actually really, I actually really do enjoy it. Like I sometimes
39:24
like like retranslations. It just makes reading the Bible. Well, guys shout out to all the
39:29
random versions out there that make people feel happy on the inside. But let's go back
39:32
to the normal people Bible if you don't mind. So maybe the ESV. Yeah. Let's do acts 25,
39:37
13 through 22, 13 through 22. Yeah. Now when some days have passed, a grip of the king
39:41
and Bernice arrived to Caesarea and greeted Festus and they stayed there many days. Festus
39:46
laid Paul's case before the king saying there's a man left in prison by Felix. And when I was
39:51
at Jerusalem, the chief priests and the elders of the Jews laid out their case against him,
39:55
asking for a sentence of condemnation against him. I answered them and it was not the custom
40:06
of the Romans to give up anyone before the accused myth the accusers face to face and
40:10
had the opportunity to make his defense concerning the charge leave it laid against him. So when
40:15
they came together here, I made no delay. But on the next day, took my seat on the tribunal
40:19
and ordered the man to be brought. When the accuser stood up, they brought no charge in
40:23
his case of such evils as I supposed. Rather, they had certain points of dispute with him
40:29
about their own religion and about certain, a certain Jesus who was dead, but whom Paul
40:33
asserted to be alive. Being a loss, being a being at a loss, how to investigate these
40:40
questions, I asked whether he wanted to go to Jerusalem and be tried there regarding
40:45
them. But when Paul had appealed to be kept, yeah, to be kept in custody for the decision
40:53
of the emperor, I ordered him to be held until I could send him to Caesar. Then a gripper
40:58
said to Festus, I would like to hear the man myself. Tomorrow said he, you will hear him.
41:05
So in this section, there's kind of some bookends from the stock commentary that I found to
41:09
be helpful, but also interesting. So we see a gripper. So this is Herod a grip of the second
41:13
that is the son of Herod a gripper. The first that's, you know, we see in Acts 12, and he
41:18
is the great grandson of Herod the Great. Okay, so that's, that's who we're talking about.
41:22
But then you get all the way to the end. Excuse me, Paul. This is straight from the stock
41:27
commentary. I thought this was great. Paul had created curiosity with a gripper here,
41:31
because we can see there, you know, I would like to hear from him myself, much like Jesus
41:35
did with Herod Antipas. So there, there was a curiosity here to be like, Hey, bring this,
41:40
you know, bring this Nazarene before me. I want to talk to this guy. But kind of the
41:43
same thing here that in this moment, he doesn't have to, a gripper doesn't have to talk to
41:48
Paul to take care of this. He can just kind of, you know, wave his hand over the situation
41:51
and kind of deal with it. But there was a curiosity that was created here. So you can
41:54
kind of see how all these historical characters are connecting to put us right on top of the
41:58
narrative that we're in right now.
41:59
I think it's crazy that you look at Bernice and it calls her the queen. It was his sister.
42:04
Yeah. So issues also ends up being like queen consort to Titus Caesar from Vespians line.
42:12
And so it's just kind of strange to see like, I think we're going to see the just, you
42:16
know, it was juxtaposition, juxtaposition of light. Yeah, of a gripper and like Herod
42:23
the Great and the ones before him who were really evil, but a gripper the second wasn't.
42:28
But he wasn't without virtue in the fact that he was having an incestuous relationship with
42:32
his sister. And so I think like the point they put this here in the, in the Bible for
42:37
us to realize that a gripper the second was not a virtuous man. But we're going to see
42:41
later on in the next chapter one, Paul basically gives us testimony again, you know, the things
42:47
that a gripper misses out on. You know, Paul being in prison two years and takes every
42:53
opportunity to take the gospel to whoever's in front of them with the right attitude,
43:00
with the right heart, with the right, just focus. And so here he is at every opportunity.
43:05
He says, this is what I'm here for. I'm not here for, you know, comfort. I'm here for
43:09
notoriety. I'm here to meet up with people and tell them about the gospel. And this is
43:14
playing out to be such an interesting here, Paul is unassuming, you know, Ben and jail
43:19
for a bunch of his life, unassuming, you know, persona, what short, you know, stocky, bald
43:26
guy. I think that's what they say. I'm looking at you realizing I'm saying this. Yeah. And
43:30
he's getting ready to stand in front of this entourage of people that are so different
43:35
and they have so much history. But he that's where he wants to be. Yeah. Well, it's kind
43:39
of funny, like looking at just this setup in this, in this scripture, like Paul before
43:44
a gripper and Bernice or before that, like showing themselves on the way there, giving
43:48
us the history behind everything because like, Hey, we know Bernice, you know, and we know
43:54
of her because of Titus. And then we also know of a gripper. But then it made me think
43:58
back when he appeals to Caesar, you know, at the time, Nero is Caesar at this time. And
44:05
at this time, Nero's under the tutelage of Seneca, I believe. And so he's actually a
44:10
just ruler. So at this time, when Paul appeals, Nero's still a just ruler and he hasn't gone
44:16
off the deep end just yet. And so, you know, at this point, you would see it as the safest
44:22
place and also Seneca stoic philosopher within stoicism, there was a strong conscientiousness
44:29
been towards towards justice and, you know, things that were right now. I don't mean that
44:33
like right wrong and a biblically moral sense, but just kind of doing the thing that was
44:37
that was more altruistic. This might be like a hard left turn. But the thing that's interesting
44:42
about when books like the book of Acts elucidates specific people from history who have history
44:48
written, written about them in secular sources, whether those be Jewish historians, Roman
44:53
historians, secular historians, stoic philosophers, whatever those types of things is where you
44:58
see people that clearly have, you know, sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies being used in still
45:08
in the narrative of scripture. I was listening to Jordan Peterson the other day, I forget who
45:11
he was talking to, but he was trying to nicely say that if you're a psychopath, like, I mean,
45:18
you mean that not from like, oh, dude, it's crazy. No, like a legitimate psychopath or someone
45:23
that's, you know, sociopathic that doesn't really feel empathy. They don't feel empathetic
45:29
pain, even if they're the ones causing the pain, those types of things, that those people
45:33
are not able to be remedied. They're not able to be rehabilitated that when you put those
45:38
people in prison, they have to stay there. And so part of my struggle is is like science
45:44
even the science of the brain, even though we have a limited understanding. I want to
45:49
tend to believe those things. But then we also have to believe that the gospel can can fix
45:52
just about everything. But then whenever you see individuals, like these people that are
45:56
being interviewed in prison, these serial killers and all that, and you finally say to
46:00
this person, like, did you ever have any feelings when you were doing this? And these people
46:03
just smile. And the only feeling they had was pleasure when they were doing some of these
46:06
most like heinous and awful things. But what brought that to mind is a lot of these Roman
46:11
rulers had a lot of that. So it wasn't just they were drunk on power. It was psychopathy
46:16
and, you know, they're sociopathy. And it was just kind of one of those, one of those
46:21
things that's kind of hard to deal with. Well, like Nero went off the deep end. Like, if
46:24
you read some of the stuff that happened, like he killed his own mother, after that happened,
46:28
he went off the deep end. Sources say he killed his own mother. Other sources will say differently.
46:34
But then had a wife who he was, who was pregnant with his child, got angry at her, kicked her
46:40
to death. She died. And then he met, he had a boy castrated and married the boy because
46:46
the boy looked like his wife that he just killed. Like, wow, crazy. How can you go from
46:52
like this kind of stoic, like a ruler of Nero and then just completely fall the way that
46:59
you fall? You know what it is? You didn't have Christ. Didn't have God, you know, like,
47:04
do you think if like, if there was a chance that Paul was able to preach or give his testimony
47:09
to Nero, I don't know if he got the chance or not. But who knows what change that could
47:14
have met? Well, look at a gripper's relatives. We, we see Christ days. Okay, all the way
47:19
up to a gripper, right? Not much had changed. When you really look at Paul Christ, you look
47:25
at a gripper and his relatives has really that much changed. I mean, I know it's not
47:31
as as it doesn't look like this in terms of how they put people today. But is that much
47:36
changed about giving the gospel and being attacked and the psychopaths that we see that
47:41
are running the country? I mean, times have not really changed. I mean, maybe they're
47:45
more civilized in the world we live in today, but you're seeing a repetitiveness. It's
47:49
definitely more civilized. I mean, you're going to lose your job rather than get thrown
47:52
to lions, but you know, well, I think the thing that I was reading in the commentary was talking
47:58
about, you know, you've got all these leaders. And like you said, some of them are crazy,
48:02
but it's God's ordained timing, right? He is in control. Like the sovereignty is still
48:07
Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, you have elections on certain things. And you know, it's
48:13
like, I remember as like a six year old, I think it was like the Clinton Bush election.
48:18
I think it was back in 92. And I remember Clinton winning and I thought like the world
48:22
was going to end, you know, like as a six year old and I was just like, Oh my gosh, man,
48:27
that's when like politics actually become your six 92. I was six and 92. Yeah. Yeah.
48:33
I was a five. Yeah. Yeah. I was six. Okay, then I was I wasn't six and I was like seven
48:40
or eight. Yeah, I was getting ready to get married. Yeah. Yeah. So I just remember that
48:45
and like, I think I voted for Ross Perot and that was pro boss, but like, but the way
48:50
I look at it is like whatever, whatever happens, like who's ever president or whatever elected
48:55
leader gets in there, it's got judgment. That's that is what I look at because through depending
49:00
on your political persuasion, you're either super excited right now or you're super disappointed
49:04
right now, or if you're looking forward to the next midterm or the next general, it's
49:07
like, oh, if that's consuming your brain, not only does it take you out of your own community,
49:11
you don't know the name of your mayor, but you know, you're really worried about, you
49:14
know, who's going to win the Senate? Not that it's not important. But the thing that's that's
49:18
important for us as we discuss is whenever I do read through sections like this, because
49:23
again, in acts, you'll have one paragraph that'll cover like years. And I'm like, there were
49:27
multiple rulers that made an unbelievable amount of decisions that people either agreed with
49:32
or didn't agree with that affected their everyday lives. And yet we're still here talking. And
49:37
so like, I hate just in general, when everyone talks about how this election might be our
49:42
last election, it's like, perhaps, or we're just living in a moment in time that is fairly
49:49
wrought or fraught with a lot of anxiety. And we have both sides trying to increase the
49:54
level of anxiety to push voter turnout and all those types of things. And look, I get
49:58
it as a political strategy, but it's like, guys, how much do you need to see from history,
50:02
not just from the Bible, but from any historical record to where it's like, well, and this
50:05
was the moment that everything, you know, went bad for the world. It's never that way. It
50:09
might lead to the fall of Rome, it might lead to the fall of the Byzantine Empire, it might
50:14
lead to the fall of America. But what we're talking about in terms of God's timing, we
50:18
are talking about a literal blip on the radar.
50:20
Yeah, I mean, God is the ultimate curator of everything that's going on. And that's what
50:24
we have to remember. I mean, like, look at all, if you read throughout the Bible, there's
50:28
tough times throughout the Bible, all the time. You know, this isn't just some, you
50:32
know, lovey-dovey story where everything is just great, like bad things happen. But God
50:37
shows you His plan from Genesis all to Revelation. You see God's heart and you see God's plan,
50:45
no matter what circumstances people are in, whether they are good or bad.
50:48
All right. Well, guys, let's see it to the end of Acts 25. So Howard, if you can wrap
50:52
us up, you did the beginning. Let's go ahead and do the end. Let's do verses 23 through
50:57
27.
50:58
23 through 27. The next day, Agrippa and Anne Bernice came with great pomp and entered the
51:05
audience room with high ranking military officers and prominent men of the city at the command
51:11
of Festus Paul was brought in. Festus said, King Agrippa, and all who are present with
51:17
us. You see this man? The whole Jewish community has petitioned me about him in Jerusalem and
51:23
here in Caesarea, shouting that he ought not live any longer. I found he had done nothing
51:29
deserving of death, but because he made his appeal to Emperor, I decided to send him to
51:33
Rome, but I have nothing to nothing definite to write to his majesty about him. Therefore,
51:39
I have brought him before all of you, and especially before you, King Agrippa, so that
51:44
as a result of the investigation, I may have something to write, or I think it is unreasonable
51:49
to send a prisoner to Rome without specifying the charges against him.
51:52
I thought it was interesting to even use the word unreasonable in the subscription of what
51:57
was happening, but I mean, we do see here in verse 26, you know, but I have nothing definite
52:02
to write to my Lord about him. This was not true. Festus had the charges. The charges
52:07
didn't have any evidence connected to it. And so this just pushes the narrative forward
52:12
as we go into Acts 26. I kind of disagree a little bit on that.
52:17
That he didn't have all the answers. That's why he's appealing to Agrippa because he doesn't
52:22
know Jewish traditions or Jewish law as well. Like I'm not saying he was actively lying.
52:29
I'm just saying when he says I have nothing definite to write, my Lord, like he had charges
52:33
in his hand. But he has charges based upon the chief priests saying that the conjecture
52:38
of the British saying, hey, this guy's blaspheming our God because he's saying that this guy,
52:44
the Christ is the Messiah, which isn't true. And so he's like, I don't know what you're
52:48
talking about. And we go into the next chapter, we'll talk about it next week. Like he tells
52:52
Paul, he's insane. You know, and so that's where we have to look at. Like he didn't have
52:57
the actual cultural background or theological background that Agrippa would have because
53:02
Agrippa grew up. Yeah, I think like you said, that's the whole reason he even brought him
53:06
in. Like he could have, he could have written something, I didn't send it to the governor,
53:10
but you know, King Agrippa is coming to give him, you know, congratulate him on his new
53:15
position. And while he's there, he's like, Hey, I need a favor. I don't really understand
53:20
what's going on here. I need your help to write something because from what I was reading
53:23
in the commentary, it's like, if a governor writes to Nero and it doesn't make sense what
53:28
he's writing. That's almost a death sentence for him. Yeah, right. It's like, why did you
53:34
bring this to me? Like I had other things that I could do. Anything else on acts 25?
53:38
No. Hey, Ryan, should they be able to stick around for the next few? Oh, yeah, I think
53:43
that they should. Okay. Okay, guys, you got my socks. Will you do it live on air? Will
53:50
you make yourself like two separate socks? I'll let you borrow my socks. Yeah, Donnie,
53:55
I think we're going to make that happen. But guys, we're going to leave that there, but
53:58
come back here next week where we are going to dig into acts 26, acts 26. So make sure
54:02
you're read up through that. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience
54:05
boost add on to live remission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
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for just spiritual mental and physical resilience. Just want to remind you guys that we do have
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a forging table starter set through crossway. And we do have cheaper access to the Logos
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Bible software, the best Bible software on planet earth. And here's the thing, guys,
54:20
I still get DMS and emails from guys are like, I can't find the Bible software link. I can't
54:24
find all that every time I do an ad, I say it's in the show notes. Ryan, where's it at?
54:28
It's in the show notes, guys. So if you go to the show notes, if you're listening to
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this on Apple, click on the episode, go into the notes and it's like magic. You'll see
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links to the episode, it'll take you to the website. So guys, if you want to start your
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own forging table, there's this five book set through crossway that you guys should
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definitely check out. And then obviously the Logos Bible software, we've talked about
54:45
a lot. It is an incredibly, incredibly powerful tool that'll help you dig in as far as you
54:49
would like to dig in to the Bible. So you can check that out, but you can check that out
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at a discount and also guys, we are a donation based ministry. So if you're wondering, how
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56:01
Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual mental and
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