0:00
Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline?
0:04
That's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.
0:09
My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive-sounding metric I had.
0:15
Impression.
0:16
Cut the bullspend.
0:18
See revenue, not just reach.
0:19
Linkedin delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks.
0:23
Advertise on Linkedin.
0:24
Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit.
0:27
Go to linkedin.com/campaign. Turn sick edition supply.
0:30
Slow loading screens and pixelated scenes.
0:33
With quantum fiber speed you're finally free.
0:36
Yay to you, the queen of stream.
0:39
More binging and gaming.
0:42
You're living beyond my dream.
0:44
Downloads, uploads, all the things you can love.
0:47
Every series, all the shows.
0:50
With every kick, your legend grows.
0:53
One to five, which love is true, hey to you.
0:56
Learn more at quantumfiber.com.
0:58
Limited availability, service, and select locations only.
1:00
This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
1:24
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:26
Let's get into it.
1:27
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:28
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:31
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:34
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:37
by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you to come along in that journey with
1:40
us.
1:41
We got OG Matt in the house and we got Russell Eussis in the house.
1:43
Not sure why I said your last name, but just in case anybody wants to find you online.
1:46
But then guys, we've had a lot of firsts on the forging table.
1:49
Okay.
1:50
So we've had, you know, the best Sunday school teacher in America, shout out Terry Fakes.
1:55
He came on here and did some.
1:57
We had the pastor from our church come on here and so shout out Jay Reisner.
2:01
And then we had on any given Sunday, one of these two guys might be the best preacher
2:06
in America.
2:07
We had Joe B. Martin of church of 11, 22 shout out and also Matt Chandler, the village church.
2:11
They came on the forging table.
2:14
But none of those guys have ever represented and by represented, I mean, represented the
2:19
United States in the Olympics.
2:21
It's never happened for.
2:22
We have never had a bona fide certified Olympian at the forging table, but that is until this
2:28
very, very moment, because we would like to welcome on your maiden voyage, Sam Hayes-Winkle.
2:35
Welcome to the forging table, my friend.
2:37
It's awesome.
2:38
Happy to be here.
2:39
I tell you, I am, I can wrestle in front of 10,000 people.
2:42
No nerves.
2:43
Little nervous right now.
2:44
I'll tell you what, sit at this table and just remember, just remember, this is just
2:47
a Bible study.
2:48
Yeah.
2:49
I'm recording it like the best two pastors in America and a jock.
2:54
Hey, but here's the good luck, but dude, they didn't sit in that chair.
2:57
And so like Matt has all the pressure right now because he may not even be in the top three
3:01
of people that have sat in that chair, and so, but I will say it's probably true.
3:05
Terry Fakes did sit right there where you're sitting.
3:07
And so you might get a little bit of the rub, but yeah, we're happy to have you on the show.
3:11
And so part of the reason I got to tell you this, that so for people that have been following
3:15
the show for a long time, you actually were the first in person interview.
3:19
I ever did on the show.
3:20
I think it was, you were a great door art.
3:21
So you and I went to some random studio in, uh, in Edmond downtown, Edmond and his everything
3:27
went wrong.
3:28
Yeah.
3:29
Everything that could have possibly went wrong with the recording did go wrong, but we did
3:31
a long, we did like a two hour long interview and all that.
3:33
So guys, if you want to find that it's undaunted dot live backslash podcast, backslash, Sam
3:38
Hayes, Winkle, you'll be able to check that one out.
3:40
But the reason that I thought about you, because this is kind of how I do a fortune table,
3:44
we have kind of like a core five guys that that's what you're in Matt.
3:47
And then we've got a core, like, you know, these are the first arms I went out of the
3:51
bullpen and rush you're in that group.
3:53
And then I've got some breaking case of fire, break glass in case of fire guys, right?
3:57
And then I've got guys that I was just scouting.
3:59
You know, it's like, Hey, if we need somebody to kind of come in and kind of do this whole
4:02
thing, we'll make it happen.
4:03
Well, this week peek behind the curtain.
4:05
This was a very, very strange week.
4:07
So like Tuesday that we're recording on Friday, like Tuesday, the guy that was supposed to
4:11
be sitting in your seat, I made a mistake.
4:14
And so Dagan was supposed to be doing the next, you know, three weeks.
4:16
So he did last week, but he's supposed to be doing these next three weeks.
4:19
I never told him that it was his time to do it.
4:21
He's like, yeah, I've got plans.
4:23
I'm like, yeah, your plan should be to be here and record this, but I'm the idiot and didn't
4:27
tell him.
4:28
So Sam, I was like, Oh, I got to reach out to you do this and Russ had less than 24 hours
4:31
notice because we were supposed to have one of the other guys come out of the bullpen.
4:35
But we had to get you in on 24 hours.
4:36
So shout out to that.
4:37
But I say all that to come back to this.
4:39
The reason why I was even putting you on the scout team that you didn't even know that
4:42
you were on is because I remember when I first started going to faith Bible.
4:46
And first started going to our Sunday school class, because I refuse to call it an ABF.
4:50
It's the dumbest thing in the world.
4:51
Our Sunday school class is the correct way to say you were one of the few people that
4:58
had their Bible with them at a Bible church and it looked like you had been reading it.
5:03
So you had that ESV study Bible, probably the best.
5:06
If you can only buy one Bible, I would say probably buy that one from cross way.
5:09
It's a great Bible.
5:10
And so it was the hardback version.
5:11
So Matt's got the fancy pants version right there, Buffalo hide or whatever.
5:15
But yours was like falling completely apart.
5:17
I'm a Christian.
5:18
Okay.
5:19
That's right.
5:20
Look.
5:21
So we got it all right there.
5:22
Boom.
5:23
There it is.
5:24
Hey, and it's got tape on it.
5:25
And I was just like, okay, either Sam's faking it.
5:27
He really has no respect for his personal property or the guy actually reads the Bible.
5:31
And so I felt pretty confident that you were if you were available tonight, that you would
5:35
kind of like work yourself in no problem.
5:37
So that's why you're here, not just because you're Olympian.
5:40
That's a cool, you know, feathering your cap and all that.
5:42
But that's, that's the reason why you're here.
5:44
I appreciate it and I, and you got bought me a new Bible.
5:47
I bring it to church.
5:48
So I don't look like the guy with the tape on the Bible.
5:50
Yeah, I did get you.
5:51
Which one was it the same, same as V.
5:54
Okay.
5:55
Was it the men's version or I can't remember which one?
5:58
It was crossway.
5:59
I remember that.
6:00
Shout out to crossway.
6:01
We love our crossway people.
6:02
But Matt, I heard you have other.
6:03
Yeah.
6:04
Sam Hayeswinkle story.
6:05
Yeah.
6:06
I've known Sam's wife Rachel since 2002, sweet gal.
6:14
Rachel is one of the best people I've ever met.
6:17
True.
6:18
Yeah.
6:19
Sam's not just saying that because he has to.
6:21
So I met her through a ministry that I was invited to, my freshman year in college at
6:26
Henderson Hills, when it used to be in a different place than it is now.
6:30
Is that the green carpet check?
6:32
Yes.
6:33
Yes.
6:34
That's the one.
6:35
And I met her as one, she's one of the students in there, but she was like a leader in the
6:39
group too.
6:40
And I remember getting to know her.
6:41
She was always talking about this guy, Sam.
6:44
And you know, when girls are in high school, there's that giddiness and there's like,
6:47
oh, he's just so great.
6:50
It was, you could like even, even as like a young kid, I could tell that it was more
6:54
than that.
6:55
And there was the giddiness part of it.
6:56
But the way she talked about you just being this like upstanding guy, this amazing dude
7:01
who she knew, she was going to spend the rest of her life with fast forward 22 years later.
7:09
You guys are married.
7:10
I just always, when Kyle told me you were going to be on there, I was like, man, I think
7:13
I want to find a way to work this story in because I like, I've had just a massive amount
7:18
of respect for you for 22 years based on that one, the way that she always talked about you.
7:25
And so I just think that's just a speaks to your character.
7:28
And I'm just so glad you're here.
7:29
And I just thought you, you might want to hear that story.
7:31
Are you don't be in slobbered on like everyone's just giving you all these compliments?
7:34
Russ, you've only known him for like 14 minutes.
7:36
Would you want to just tell him how awesome you think he is?
7:38
I'm betting Matt fight.
7:39
Oh, that's right.
7:40
That's right.
7:41
That's right.
7:42
That's more the story.
7:43
I got it.
7:44
I'm just trying to follow.
7:45
I'm just trying to follow Joey's advice.
7:46
Joey says we need to, you know, we need to stop being dudes that just make fun of each
7:49
other.
7:50
Yeah.
7:51
And I want to, you know, lift people up.
7:52
And so yeah, you're welcome, Joby.
7:53
Yeah.
7:54
Is that a first?
7:55
Is that a first?
7:56
Yeah.
7:57
Okay.
7:58
We need to get some your welcome Joby shirts.
7:59
All right.
8:00
The number of people I walked through church of 11, 22 where to sorry, Joby shirt, like
8:04
they should sell those.
8:06
So like a lot of people didn't get the joke.
8:08
They're just like your shirts.
8:09
Awesome.
8:10
And then I had to like go ahead and explain it.
8:11
Now I will go and say we need to get to your three questions because every time there's
8:14
someone's maiden voyage here on the forging table, you have three questions that you have
8:19
to answer in two minutes total.
8:21
So three questions in two minutes and it's how do you become a Christian?
8:25
How do you like to study the Bible and how does your brain work?
8:28
Two minutes, ready to go became Christian.
8:31
I was six.
8:32
My dad led me to the Lord, like Romans road.
8:34
Like I'm in bed, like man, I don't want to go to hell and I know he'll sounds terrible.
8:38
I want God to be my savior.
8:40
I was like, Dad, how do I do it?
8:41
What do we do?
8:42
You walk me to the Romans road, got saved and like the next week told everybody, I was
8:47
like, I'm a new baby.
8:48
You're like, you're, your kid is crazy.
8:50
Yeah.
8:51
And.
8:52
Those that know, no, new, I'm a new baby.
9:01
That's right.
9:02
Yeah.
9:03
So it's great.
9:04
Next question.
9:05
How do you like to study the Bible?
9:06
Oh, man.
9:08
I read it like through a wrestling filter, everything like when I'm reading this, like
9:13
man, Paul's wrestling against these, all the persecutors, you know, and so that's always
9:19
everything goes to that filter and hopefully I do the opposite of that also.
9:26
So when I'm wrestling, I try to think of like, what does the Bible say?
9:29
How do I make that work with my wrestling and in my life?
9:33
But that's, I don't know the fancy words for how I study.
9:39
We only use theological terms of this table.
9:42
Ecclesiastical.
9:43
There's the first one.
9:44
You need to use a lot more.
9:45
Ecclesiastical.
9:46
Okay.
9:47
Very good.
9:48
Context.
9:49
Great one.
9:50
That's a great one.
9:51
Okay.
9:52
Last one.
9:53
How's your mind worked?
9:54
So are you like a slow processor?
9:55
Or are you like, you know, most definitely?
9:56
No, I'm, I'm the guy that like, uh, two a.m., like, oh, that's what I should have said.
10:00
It would have worked great.
10:02
It's going to be, it's going to be terrible because you're going to record the, for the
10:05
next few weeks and you're just going to be like, especially if you go back on your
10:08
show, it's like, oh my goodness, there's so much better ways to you go back and listen
10:11
to it.
10:12
And you're like, I know the point I was trying to make, but you're like hoping that you say
10:15
it.
10:16
And then you don't.
10:17
And you're like, wow.
10:18
I did two weeks ago.
10:19
I don't feel like I've gotten any better.
10:20
Kyle actually told people to go back and listen to that episode.
10:23
Trying out a great, I don't remember it being terrible.
10:26
It's a good episode.
10:27
I listened to that episode.
10:28
It's great.
10:29
I appreciate it.
10:30
Yeah.
10:31
That wasn't bad.
10:32
There was a little bit.
10:33
So you asked me one question, like, six times.
10:35
This has been honest.
10:36
Yeah.
10:37
Happen.
10:38
Let's go.
10:39
This is your time.
10:40
This is your time.
10:41
Yeah.
10:42
You kept asking.
10:43
What was the question?
10:44
How do you make the Olympic team?
10:45
And in my head, I'm like, it can't be that simple.
10:46
There's got to be more.
10:47
I'm forgetting something.
10:48
You've got to kind of avoid it.
10:50
And like, you got US Open.
10:52
Yeah.
10:53
If you're top seven of that, you go to the Olympic trials, it's like, man, there's got
10:56
to be more.
10:57
You've got to be like another qualifier.
10:58
Nope.
10:59
Nope.
11:00
Nope.
11:01
Well, there is more.
11:02
There's like 20 years worth of wrestling before that point.
11:03
Yes.
11:04
And so you kind of had to develop some things along the way.
11:05
Yes.
11:06
The math is simple, but the journey's done.
11:07
Yes.
11:08
There you go.
11:09
I think that's what you're asking though.
11:10
Is that Lord of the Rings or something like it?
11:12
No, it just came up.
11:13
The seven shall be one.
11:14
It's not a teacher.
11:15
We have a strict no Lord of the Rings references policy at this table.
11:19
That whole trilogy is garbage.
11:20
Sorry.
11:21
Am I still?
11:22
Yeah.
11:23
Do we need to go there?
11:24
I've broken that.
11:25
I've broken that so many times.
11:26
Yeah.
11:27
There's a lot of walking.
11:28
No, we're going to talk about this.
11:29
There's a lot of walking.
11:30
We're going to talk about this.
11:31
The book.
11:32
I did not know you felt that way.
11:33
Did you read the books?
11:34
No, he's never read the books.
11:35
Very similar.
11:36
No.
11:37
Okay.
11:38
So here's the thing.
11:39
I'm not big into sword and sorcery and all that kind of stuff and like fantasy land stuff.
11:40
But like in high school, when I think the, it's Middle Earth, sir, geez, okay.
11:45
All right, nerds.
11:46
All right.
11:47
So this is what happened in high school.
11:48
I think the third one came out.
11:49
When I was in high school, I'm not sure what's the third one.
11:51
The return of the king.
11:52
Okay.
11:53
Yeah.
11:54
Where the nerd takes the other nerd up to the top and you know, let's them throw the ring
11:56
in and all that.
11:57
So I was like, good.
11:58
I'm not going to watch this.
11:59
I don't like sword and sorcery.
12:00
I don't, I don't like fantasy stuff.
12:01
And my buddy swore Brent Smith, he told me he's like, no, no, it's not, it's not sword
12:05
and sorcery.
12:06
Like, I think you'll actually like it.
12:07
It's just like an epic.
12:08
You know, a fantasy epic.
12:09
And I was like, okay, cool.
12:10
All right, we're at the first one probably from Hastings on VHS may be DVD.
12:15
I'm not trying to say anything crazy, but my parents literally made thousands of dollars
12:18
per year.
12:19
So we may have had a DVD player.
12:20
And so in the first five minutes, there's a wizard and a sword fight.
12:25
And I was like, you said there wasn't sword and sorcery, a wizard and a sword fight.
12:31
Okay.
12:32
So that was already, we are already off to a bad start.
12:34
So three freaking hours later, the first movie is done.
12:37
And I'm like, huh, okay.
12:39
Well, wasn't really feeling it, didn't really understand all the pointy-eared people and
12:43
all the weird, you know, names and different things like that.
12:45
Okay.
12:46
But it's just.
12:47
I thought you love 300.
12:48
Yeah, it's great.
12:49
But that.
12:50
Sword fight.
12:51
What?
12:52
No, that's sword and sorcery.
12:53
No, they're just because there was a, just because there was a, well, what do they call
12:56
the people oracles?
12:57
Did I just catch it?
12:58
No, there's sorcery in there.
12:59
No, because I'm in the middle of my story.
13:01
You can catch me later.
13:02
Or you can catch me outside.
13:03
Yeah, catch me outside.
13:04
How about that?
13:05
All right.
13:06
But here's the thing.
13:07
So I'm like, all right, it's a trilogy.
13:08
You watch the first one and it's just setting the stage, right?
13:11
Because very, very, I wouldn't say if you're doing something that was meant to be a trilogy
13:15
from the beginning, the first film is typically not the best, right?
13:20
You know, if it's a trilogy that they just started adding on to later, it's probably not
13:22
going to be great.
13:23
Okay.
13:24
So then I get to the second one.
13:25
What?
13:26
Two towers.
13:27
Twin towers.
13:28
Twin towers.
13:29
Okay.
13:30
Maybe it is.
13:31
No, it is a two towers.
13:32
It is a two towers.
13:33
Two towers.
13:34
Okay.
13:35
So yeah, whoops.
13:36
Watch on the first movie.
13:38
I straight up do fall asleep watching the second movie.
13:40
I was so unbelievably bored, but I did wake up in time to hear the only funny line apparently
13:46
from the entire trilogy, which was something about taters.
13:48
I don't know.
13:49
Like one of the little elf dudes was talking about taters, potatoes, I think I remember
13:53
that thing.
13:54
And then I just don't watch there are finished the second movie.
13:57
And I was like, I've wasted six hours of my life.
14:00
I'm not doing another three hours, so I just completely skipped the third one.
14:03
I couldn't believe how bad and how boring it was.
14:06
And I know, I know I'm like the biggest minority on that entire thing because I'm like the
14:10
only human being I know of that thinks it's lame, but the people like, oh, no, you got
14:14
to read the books.
14:15
It's like, okay.
14:16
So I've wasted six hours.
14:17
Now, I need to waste like 6D more hours to read the books just to go back and rewatch
14:20
the movies.
14:21
I didn't like the first time.
14:22
Listen to to combat what Kyle is saying.
14:24
One of the men who is so instrumental in the faith walk of one of the greatest minds that
14:31
have ever lived.
14:32
Here we go.
14:33
We are our Tolkien, true was so good at retelling in a way that was captivating and exciting.
14:43
The true myth of Christ puts these three books together and tells a story of basically our
14:51
walk as Christians and how we fit into God's world and all the all the things that God
14:57
has created and what the ultimate goal is and what the ultimate outcome is, is the Lord
15:04
of the Rings.
15:05
And I will say when I first saw the first movie, I went on senior skip day, I had no
15:10
idea what it was.
15:11
One of my friends said, hey, this movie is going to be really cool.
15:14
I went.
15:15
I had no idea it was a trilogy sat through the whole movie and it ended on a cliffhanger.
15:20
And I was like, what?
15:21
This was terrible.
15:22
Yeah.
15:23
What do you like?
15:24
There's no closure at all.
15:25
He's like, yeah, there's going to be two more movies.
15:26
Oh, my gosh.
15:27
I had no idea.
15:28
I had no idea what these were, but then you read the books and you read the stories and
15:32
it's kind of our modern day.
15:35
What's a Pilgrim's Progress?
15:37
I would say it's kind of like Pilgrim's Progress.
15:39
It is a book that you should read to help you understand some biblical truths.
15:45
There's a lot of Catholicism in there, but it does really help you understand some really
15:51
good biblical truths about our world.
15:53
The things that you don't like the sorcery and swords, yeah, I love it.
16:00
It's like, I don't, I don't even understand how you can say you don't like it.
16:03
It's like, and, and a kid likes, uh, but I don't know.
16:09
It has like one of the greatest three AM stories, three AM friendship stories ever.
16:15
Yeah.
16:16
Yeah.
16:17
That's right.
16:18
I know.
16:19
I've told that story on this podcast.
16:20
Well, for those that didn't hear the first time, I'll go ahead and tell it.
16:23
You're silly little elf story.
16:24
I'll tell it.
16:25
Sure.
16:26
It's not, it's too hobbit.
16:27
So, so in the, in the story, there is, there is a, a person named Frodo and he's chosen
16:33
because he's small and he's like, he's kind of that, the guy who's just, you wouldn't
16:37
expect him to be the hero of the story, which is what God does throughout the Bible.
16:42
He paints straight lines with crooked sticks and, or crooked pencils.
16:46
So he's tasked with carrying this ring, which is, can be viewed as sin.
16:51
It is our sin.
16:52
It needs to be destroyed.
16:53
The final judgment of, of sin is that sin will be destroyed.
16:56
So he carries it to Mordor, which is where it will be destroyed ultimately.
17:00
The whole, the, the main story is him and his gardener who's his best friend named Samwise
17:06
traveling.
17:07
Samwise.
17:08
No.
17:09
Okay.
17:10
Two Mordor to, to take this ring.
17:11
Well, the sin when you, when you are with sin and you carry sin and you hold sin and you
17:16
are in sin, it has a very, like, very bad effects on you.
17:24
I can't think of what else to say.
17:25
So he goes, he's carrying this ring and it starts to like control him.
17:30
It starts to change him.
17:31
He starts to become this dark person.
17:33
He's, he, he embodies sin and he gets to a point where he can't physically go on anymore
17:40
and they're at the foot of the mountain, Mount Doom, they're almost to the end, but he physically
17:45
can't walk anymore.
17:46
And Samwise who knows he cannot carry the ring.
17:49
It is Frodo's ring to carry.
17:51
He can't carry that burden for him.
17:53
He says, I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you.
17:57
He picks up Frodo, slings him over his shoulder, carries him up the mountain and helps Frodo
18:03
complete his task, which is ultimately ending sin and destroying sin and ring.
18:09
The ultimate three M friendship test.
18:12
You're welcome.
18:13
Yeah.
18:14
So yes, you're welcome.
18:15
So everyone at this table is a big Lord of the Rings fan.
18:18
I mean, it may be a strong word, but fan, fan, yeah, like you would watch it again.
18:22
You watch it with your kids.
18:23
Yeah.
18:24
I'm watching the new series right now.
18:25
That's one of my favorite.
18:26
I haven't seen that.
18:27
But that's one of my favorite stories ever.
18:28
Like that is just a great picture of what it is to walk with a brother or sister in Christ.
18:34
Did you know that Tolkien, so a big part of his life was actually his gardener?
18:39
Like he, he had a loan.
18:40
I did not know that.
18:41
Yeah.
18:42
There's so much of the story that goes back to his own life and like whenever he was being
18:47
asked to go live somewhere else and he was like, wouldn't, wouldn't do it or something
18:52
like that.
18:53
And then big part was like, he wanted that home, that homesick feeling of what you see
18:57
in the shows that the hobbits go through is, I don't know, has something to do with it.
19:03
It's worth a read.
19:04
Probably stuff on it.
19:05
I can't pee.
19:06
I get them and see us Lewis and all that one just like, you're all great.
19:10
You're all great.
19:11
Keep it coming.
19:12
They need to make a movie of Screwtape letters.
19:14
Ooh.
19:15
It's best book nowadays.
19:16
All that.
19:17
It could be done so well.
19:18
We know.
19:19
It could be pretty good.
19:20
I would love it.
19:21
Interesting thing about that book.
19:22
And the great divorce.
19:23
I wouldn't mind seeing that.
19:24
Yeah.
19:25
Screwtape letters is the only book because, because I'm a finisher, like, so I did not like
19:29
the second "Lord of the Rings" movie, but I had to finish it.
19:32
There was a book I read, it was some, it was one of the summers in college and I bought
19:35
it because a buddy was reading, it was called like the historian or something like that.
19:38
It was like, we read that at the same time.
19:40
I remember that.
19:41
Yeah.
19:42
So I'm going to spoil it for everybody.
19:43
It is a 600 page book on page like 597.
19:48
The entire book is about this guy trying to find Vlad Dracula, like the actual Dracula.
19:53
Like, he finds the guy and in half a page he shoots him and kills him and then the book
19:57
ends.
19:58
Like, I literally like almost went blind reading that book.
20:00
Like I literally had to go to the eye doctor because I was like, I think something's wrong
20:03
with my eyes because I was reading in a room with weird light and all that.
20:06
Worst book I've ever read my entire life, but Screwtape letters.
20:08
I would agree with that.
20:09
That happened to me last time I read at the forging table.
20:12
Yeah.
20:13
You kind of stroked out there for a little bit, but that's okay.
20:15
I think you've got a little bit of energy boost.
20:17
Thanks to that Jocko go.
20:18
But I will say Screwtape letters is the only book that I've stopped reading in the middle
20:23
of it twice and it had nothing to do with the fact that I was not interested in the material.
20:29
But for whatever reason, two times once in college and once just a few years after I
20:33
had graduated, I started the book and just didn't finish it.
20:36
So I don't know why that was, I don't know if maybe like, maybe God was like, hey, we
20:41
know we're now now is not the time to get through that book because it's a heavy book.
20:46
See as Lewis talked about how he felt like he was, again, you can't be possessed if you
20:50
are in Christ, but that he felt oppressed, like directly, demonically oppressed when
20:56
writing that book because he's having to get into the brain of a mentor demon and a mentee
21:02
demon.
21:03
Right.
21:04
It's almost like the Joker effect, you know, talking about playing that role and how demented
21:08
they kind of have to get themselves to be.
21:11
Yeah.
21:12
Oh, for sure.
21:13
Yeah.
21:14
I think I remember they were talking about how Heath Ledger like God of that's not why
21:16
he, what is because he, the movie before that was broke back now.
21:20
Okay.
21:21
Maybe that's something to do with him, you know, similar, but joke was on him.
21:25
The thing with the Joker is with, to get ready for that role, because this was the first
21:31
time Joker was going to be like psychotic and not just sadistic, right?
21:36
In the Christopher Nolan's, like the rumor was, is that he like got a crappy apartment,
21:41
like a Roach motel apartment and a horrible part of the Los Angeles and just like locked
21:46
himself in a room and just tried to get into this psychotic state.
21:50
And that when he was on set, it was like almost impossible to talk to him because he basically,
21:55
because there's method acting like what's, what's the guy Daniel Day, Lewis, he's the
21:59
ultimate example of method acting.
22:01
So when he did that Abraham Lincoln, you know, movie, another terrible movie, but he basically
22:04
was Abraham Lincoln the entire time.
22:07
So on set at lunch in his trailer, he was Abraham Lincoln.
22:10
And that's apparently, which part, I don't leave character to left or the, all the interviews.
22:17
Yeah, he, he used Daniel Day, Lewis as inspiration.
22:20
Yeah.
22:21
I do.
22:22
I remember that.
22:23
I think that's the first Tropic Thunder reference on the 14 table.
22:25
Sam, you're already doing a great job to stop banging on the table.
22:27
Thank you for that.
22:28
Everything on the table, I get it, you're aggressive, but every time you do it, it shakes the
22:32
entire plan.
22:33
So we've got to stop doing that.
22:34
But can we all just kind of come to the agreement that Lord of the Rings should never be watched
22:37
ever again?
22:38
And it should just kind of disappear from, from American entertainment, we're not, we didn't
22:43
come to that agreement.
22:44
Cliff no version would be great.
22:45
I guess I will say, because that's not a terrible, you know, argument that, Hey, you like 300,
22:50
that's got sort of sorcery.
22:51
But the, there is sorcery in it, but it's like a two minute scene with an Oracle.
22:56
It's not sorcery throughout the entire thing, and it's just a graphic novel version of something
23:01
that actually happened as I kind of grow up and as I, you know, have fewer opportunities
23:06
to watch movies because I don't, because I've got kids and, you know, you don't really have
23:09
time to sit down and watch a cinematic adventure for two hours and they're all garbage now.
23:12
Yeah, that certainly doesn't help.
23:15
Right now, I'm either going to be watching a documentary or something that seems plausible
23:18
in real that it could have happened.
23:20
So that's why I like modern Westerns, you know, old Henry and no country for old men and stuff
23:24
like that, because it's like these things didn't happen, but they could.
23:28
And so anything that's completely outside of the realm of possibility, fantasy, sci-fi,
23:32
I just like, ah, it's just hard for me to kind of get into it.
23:35
So that might be another reason why Lord of the Rings never landed with me in the amount
23:38
of hate mail I'm going to get for that.
23:40
It might be right up there with my stances on pit bulls and, you know, anything else.
23:43
It's just like, all your unpopular things.
23:46
Oh, the most unpopular I'm going to be, how much time do we have?
23:50
Well, you can all give me what you think is my most unpopular.
23:53
I would say my top three Lord of the Rings is probably going to jump right in there.
23:56
My episode on IVF [inaudible] off a lot of people.
23:59
But nothing is [inaudible] off people more than my stance on pit bulls that they're essentially
24:03
wild animals that we shouldn't be able to own.
24:05
And so what are some of the other ones that people, that, oh, well, people don't like
24:08
episode four of the podcast because of the name of episode four.
24:12
I've literally lost money because, you know, I was booked to go and speak someplace in
24:16
the elders, like started looking through my episodes were like, well, we didn't.
24:19
We certainly did not appreciate this vulgar language.
24:20
Bob will say, did you listen to the episode is because it's like, I think I'm talking
24:23
about you in there.
24:24
But any other stances on the show that stand out as being deeply unpopular, how to go with
24:29
the worship one.
24:30
Oh, dude, I could see that go all the way.
24:32
You know, I had episode where I was like, contemporary worship music is for women and
24:36
effeminate men.
24:38
That is the one episode where guys are like, dude, I didn't know how to say it.
24:43
But I've had these thoughts my entire life.
24:46
I thought something was broken in me that I'm listening to these songs and watching these
24:50
songs be sung by all these other people and a key that I can't hit and it finally made
24:53
sense.
24:54
So that was not controversial, literally at all because my audience is 95% male, typically
24:59
Christian, typically conservative, typically rough around the edges.
25:02
A lot of cauliflower in my audience.
25:03
And so these guys were not offended by that at all.
25:06
I'd say the pit bull one is probably the big, but I remember listening to that going, yeah,
25:10
I agreed with most of that.
25:11
And we mean, you have some disagreements for sure, but I, yeah, that, that was, I was like,
25:15
yeah, that's, that's spot on.
25:17
Yeah, cause that's the thing is I'm not like, same thing with the IVF episode.
25:20
Like I've had people like get really, really angry and send me horrible messages, like
25:25
people that I know personally, some, some good friends of mine.
25:29
And I can tell in their commentary that they didn't listen to the episode.
25:32
And so it's like, did you just read the name of the episode and not actually consume it?
25:37
Because I gave a 45 minute explanation as to the moral issues with that process and the
25:41
procedure.
25:42
Those people weren't listening to their first grade teacher who told them to never judge
25:45
a book by its cover.
25:46
Right.
25:47
And that's essentially what they did.
25:48
And they're like, well, I don't have to.
25:49
I was like, so you can surmise from a handful of words on the episode artwork.
25:55
What I spent 45 minutes elucidating, you have that capability.
25:59
That is incredible.
26:01
Because again, I'm not going to claim that it's going to be a mainstream opinion.
26:04
Even people that are incredibly pro life do not hold the same opinions that I do.
26:08
But you know, I was talking to Joey about this because someone came up to him at church
26:10
and was very, very angry that I, I did this episode and was basically like, Jobier, are
26:16
you going to, are you going to, you know, no longer support him?
26:18
And Joey's like, no, of course I'm not going to no longer support him.
26:22
Why?
26:23
Because we disagree.
26:24
No, because I'm not five.
26:25
Right.
26:26
Well, the point that he gave to this person was like, look, you don't have to agree with
26:29
everything that someone says to listen to them and get value from them.
26:33
So I may come to a different opinion about IVF than Kyle does, but he's going to at least
26:38
make me think about a subject matter that I didn't think long enough about that I didn't
26:43
know was morally problematic.
26:44
He's at least going to make me chew on it.
26:46
This kind of, this kind of reminds me of what Paul is doing in acts 21.
26:50
Good segue.
26:51
Right.
26:52
Yep.
26:53
And where he's, you know, getting past maybe the disagreements and sticking to the foundational
26:57
things.
26:58
And if you can, you know, agree on the foundational things, you can do a lot of things the other.
27:02
So let's go ahead and pick up where we left off with that cliffhanger last week and Sam,
27:06
there's no better time than now we're going to go ahead.
27:08
And if you're not watching this on YouTube, it can always be a little awkward your first
27:11
time reading.
27:12
Where does the microphone go?
27:13
If speaking to the microphone, we will chastise you and smash your knuckles.
27:16
If you don't do it right, but you're going to have to read verses one through 21.
27:20
So this is a big section here.
27:21
Oh, man.
27:22
A lot of pressure.
27:23
Every time you make a mistake, it's a massive deal.
27:25
Right.
27:26
And we're all listening and watching and paying attention, but don't be nervous at the same
27:29
time.
27:30
Yeah.
27:31
Here we go.
27:32
So 22 versus one through 21 brothers and fathers hear the defense that I now make before you.
27:39
And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew language, they became even
27:44
more quiet.
27:45
And he said, I am a Jew born in Tarsus in Sicily.
27:50
Sis.
27:51
Oh boy.
27:52
Silesia.
27:53
Thank you.
27:54
There it is.
27:55
But brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel, according to the strict
27:58
manner of the law of our fathers being zealous for God, as all of you are this day.
28:04
I persecuted this way to the death binding and delivering to prison both men and women
28:11
as the high priest and the whole council of the elders can bear witness from when I receive
28:17
letters to the brothers and I journey toward Damascus to take those also who were there
28:22
and bring them in the bonds to Jerusalem to be punished.
28:26
As I was on my way and drew near to Damascus about noon, a great light from heaven suddenly
28:32
shone around me and I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, Saul, Saul, why
28:37
are you persecuting me?
28:38
And I answered, who are you, Lord?
28:40
And he said to me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.
28:46
Now those who are with me saw the light, but did not understand the voice of the one who
28:51
was speaking to me.
28:52
And I said, what shadow I do, Lord?
28:55
And the Lord said to me, rise and go into Damascus and there you will be told all that
29:00
is appointed for you to do.
29:02
And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the
29:07
hand by those who were with me and came into Damascus.
29:10
And one ananias, a devout man according to law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived
29:16
there, came to me and standing by me, said to me, Brother Saul, receive your sight, and
29:21
at that very hour I received my sight and saw him.
29:24
And he said, the God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the righteous
29:29
one, and to hear a voice from his mouth, for you will be a witness for him to everyone
29:35
of what you have seen and heard.
29:38
And now, why do we, why do you wait, rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling
29:46
on his name?
29:47
When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance
29:52
and saw him saying to me, make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will
29:57
not accept your testimony about me.
29:59
And I said, Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another, I am imprisoned
30:06
and beat those who believed in you.
30:08
And when the blood of Stephen, your witness was being shed, I myself was standing by
30:12
and approving and watching over the garments of those who killed him.
30:16
And he said to me, go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.
30:20
Sam, not only are you talented at throwing people on the ground and keeping them there,
30:24
apparently you're good at reading out loud, so Bravo was excellent.
30:28
That was that was really well done, man.
30:30
Appreciate it.
30:31
Congratulations.
30:32
Well, yeah, so we got the cliffhanger from last week.
30:35
This is Paul's first of six defenses that he's going to give for himself.
30:40
And there's a lot of things that we can dig into here.
30:42
He starts out basically by saying, you know, hey, I am a Jew, guys, like you were basically
30:47
claiming that I wasn't a Jew or I wasn't doing like, you know, Jew stuff.
30:50
But no, I am.
30:51
Like I'm like, I'm almost a super Jew because I worked at a Jew stuff and he's like a super
30:56
Jew because he was at the feet.
30:57
He was educated by familial and like he had, he had all the bona fides to basically say,
31:03
this is where we're going.
31:04
And then he details his conversion.
31:06
And we by the end of this section in verse 21, we get to the bridge that was too far for
31:12
the Jews that were basically putting them on trial is because he wanted to be sent or
31:17
he was sent to basically, you know, preach to the Gentiles.
31:20
That's where we kind of see some racial pride bubbling up right in there.
31:23
Because again, we don't really understand.
31:25
We think bloods, cribs, we think, you know, things like that.
31:28
We think we understand we don't really, we're not able to fathom the hatred between Jews
31:33
and Gentiles in the, in the way that they were treating each other at this time.
31:36
So there's a lot to discuss here.
31:38
I don't want to drive.
31:39
You guys figured it out.
31:40
What do we want to talk about first?
31:42
I think he's so like, Paul is just so flexible and just can, he's just a superstar.
31:49
You speak in Greek, he stops the, the Roman tribute, deadness tracks, like you speak Greek
31:54
and then he does the same thing to the Jewish people by switch to Hebrew.
31:58
That's, that's switch to Hebrew.
31:59
You don't think I'm a Jew.
32:00
Here you go.
32:01
I'm going to speak because I like, I know this language and it just shuts him up.
32:04
So then he can then talk about what he's going to talk about.
32:08
He's a rock star.
32:10
When I think it talks about, I think it helps us understand how important Paul was a J Warner
32:17
Wallace wrote a book.
32:18
I can't remember.
32:19
I'll shoot.
32:20
I'll, I'll find it here in a second when one of y'all's, one of y'all's making some
32:22
commentary, but he was talking about, you know, how all the evidence around when Jesus
32:27
came on the scene, it was post Roman road, right?
32:31
So how hard would it have been to spread the gospel if there wasn't the Roman road system?
32:36
No, it wasn't God's crimes.
32:37
He made the same person of interest.
32:38
That's right.
32:39
Person of interest.
32:40
And so, you know, it was after that time period.
32:44
The Greek language was ubiquitous around this area and then Latin was ubiquitous.
32:48
And so in there also the translations from Hebrew into Greek, ancient Galilean Aramaic
32:53
into Greek and all these types of things, it was for a perfect time and place such as
32:59
that.
33:00
And Paul was the guy because he wasn't just Jewish.
33:04
He was a Roman citizen and we can see several times that he didn't buy his Roman citizenship.
33:10
He didn't get it in a corrupt way.
33:11
He was Roman citizenship, a Roman citizen by birth, but also Jewish, but also could obviously
33:16
being Jewish, could speak Hebrew, but also spoke Greek.
33:19
And so it's like there wasn't basically a crowd he could go into Jew or Gentile where
33:24
he couldn't, you know, basically say, Hey, here's the common ground between us right
33:29
now.
33:30
Let's start talking about Jesus.
33:31
Yeah.
33:32
He is a Roman of Romans and a Jew of Jews like man, like the perfect person to go do what
33:37
he did.
33:38
I just want to point out, you know, we talked about this before, but the idea that he starts
33:43
this with brothers and fathers, like his relation to them and it kind of the brothers part relates
33:50
this back.
33:51
And again, you know, in previous chapters, we've, we've heard that there were thousands
33:56
of Christ believing Jewish people there that were, that were in a, in what, in on what he
34:02
was saying.
34:03
And so like it is kind of strange that he's recognizing that there are some believers out
34:07
there in the crowd.
34:08
I think I think whenever he's doing that, he's making a relation to the Jewish population
34:12
there.
34:13
But he's also saying he's calling some of these people brothers, which makes you think
34:17
that he's, he's trying to embolden them to be like, you say you believe in Jesus.
34:22
So let me tell you the story of what has really happened, which he's had to repeat several
34:26
times.
34:27
I mean, every, where he goes, that's what he does is he tells them the story.
34:31
And then he says, and this is what happened to the Gentiles, like I need to tell you how
34:35
I got here and then what God did and where he sent me and kind of, kind of almost like,
34:42
give them the story of what they've bought into, not just the Jewish people that don't
34:46
believe, but the people that do believe be like, this is what you're claiming to believe.
34:50
And it's for them to, I just wonder how many of those people kind of backed away at that
34:54
point.
34:55
We're like, this isn't what we signed up for.
34:56
Like we didn't know, we didn't know this that they sure didn't come to his defense.
35:00
Like we've said before, like he's just out there on his own.
35:02
It's also interesting, I wrote this, I read this in a commentary that he starts the same
35:07
way that Stephen did in his defense, which obviously he was there in a not so great way,
35:14
but he starts at the exact same way that Stephen did.
35:16
That's interesting.
35:17
And they do the same thing.
35:20
You see that as long as they're going along, like they were actually, they were actually
35:23
listening to the idea of Jesus, like they were listening to the idea of man, maybe God
35:28
did talk to him.
35:30
It was strange that they thought that maybe God did talk to him until he told them that
35:36
God talked to them about accepting people that they didn't want to accept.
35:41
And then they were like, no, that couldn't be true.
35:43
I can believe everything else.
35:44
Like you, you may have seen Jesus who we killed, may have come back and given you a mission
35:48
to go spread his word and I'm good with all that.
35:50
I will keep going, keep going, keep going.
35:53
And then all of a sudden he said to the Gentiles and they're like, yeah, that's so weird.
35:58
That's like, okay.
35:59
This guy is God.
36:01
He dies.
36:02
He raises, he raises himself from the dead and they're like, yeah, yeah, that all tracks.
36:06
And then you've got to be friends with people.
36:07
You don't like, no, that, that just can't be true.
36:11
Right.
36:12
But that's what, I mean, like, we've been, I've been in churches or, I mean, we've all
36:19
been there.
36:20
We've all been there ourselves where like, as long as you're not calling me to do that
36:24
or, or, or to, you know, well, and that was like how I was done.
36:29
And somebody comes in and it's like, hey, Jesus saved me, I'm away here.
36:34
He talked to me, we're, you know, and he said that bestiality is okay.
36:39
Love you.
36:40
It'd be like, no, I don't believe you.
36:42
I don't believe you either.
36:43
He's thrown out something crazy to them.
36:46
I like your point.
36:47
Yeah.
36:48
You know, like it seems so far off and what they've stopped.
36:50
What they're used to.
36:51
Right.
36:52
I think if, and it had to happen, you know, it had to happen and, and we can see easily.
36:57
But I think there was some shock there, which why I think you're right when you said, like
37:02
he's talking to him, like, hey, there's some Christians out there.
37:04
You're zealous just like me.
37:05
I was so zealous about God that I was murdering people for him.
37:09
And I'm here to tell you that's not, that's not right.
37:12
And on top of that, like we're supposed to love all the Gentiles.
37:14
I just want to point out that Sam is not saying that bestiality is okay.
37:18
Yes.
37:19
I think it's an important question.
37:20
Yes.
37:21
Let's go ahead and say that.
37:22
I just want the listeners to know that's not what Sam's saying.
37:23
But I think that it's also important to look at so Jim Bergen, he did during saturated
37:30
in Jacksonville.
37:31
You can go back to the church of 1122 podcast feed and go to saturated Jim Bergen from flat
37:36
iron's church out in Colorado.
37:38
He did a sermon and made some points.
37:40
And I mean, the level of energy that was in that room that night was astonishing.
37:45
And he just, he really lit it up.
37:47
But he was like, Hey, you know, if you, if you build a church, you know, don't be shocked
37:51
when lost people show up because the point he was trying to make is what level of lossness
37:56
are you guys okay with?
37:58
Because he was talking about one point being on like a, you know, a deck or something like
38:01
that with like a dozen guys that were heroin addicts, he's like, are you all okay with
38:05
that level of lossness?
38:06
Or are you all okay with those types of people coming to the church?
38:09
There was a guy that talked to him in his bathroom.
38:11
So he's at the urinal guy comes out of the urinal and he looks a certain kind of way
38:15
and he basically admits to the pastor right there, like I've been delivered from gay porn
38:19
and like, you know, these, these gay hookups and meetups and blah, blah and he just starts
38:22
hugging Jim, like in the bathroom, like I, assuming he had done his business at that
38:27
point.
38:28
But he's like, what about this guy's level of lossness?
38:31
Are we, are we okay with this guy's level of lossness?
38:34
And so that's, that's one thing here as well to where it's like, yeah, yeah, okay.
38:37
I'm with you.
38:38
I'm with you.
38:39
Whoo.
38:40
No, I'm not that with you.
38:41
Like I have levels to this.
38:42
And you know, I have decorum and I've got things and I've got expectations and you think
38:45
about it.
38:46
I think this was like an iminem lyric, so not the greatest source of this particular piece
38:49
of information.
38:50
But it's like when you're younger and you're coming up, you're taking risks.
38:54
You're swinging for the fences because you're trying to get stuff.
38:58
But then when you're, you got mansions and you got, you know, platinum records and all
39:02
that, now you're trying to maintain stuff.
39:05
Same thing with fighters.
39:06
You're about to, I forget it.
39:07
You know, which one of the, which guy said, if it was Sugar Ray Leonard or Marvin Hackler
39:10
or whichever, but they're like, it's really hard to get up and run in the morning when
39:15
you wake up and silk sheets.
39:16
And it's like you spend your entire life on the come up and then you arrive.
39:21
But in order to stay there, you've got to do a lot of the same stuff you did on the come
39:25
up.
39:26
And so that's where there's a, there's a, I guess, ministry aspect to all this as well,
39:31
based on what you were talking about, Russ.
39:33
Other thoughts before we move on to the next section?
39:35
Yeah.
39:36
Yeah.
39:37
I got a couple more.
39:38
Yeah.
39:39
I love how calm he is.
39:40
Like doesn't seem to have any emotion.
39:41
Like they want to tear and limb from limb.
39:43
And maybe it's cause he's done it a few times already.
39:46
You know, practice makes perfect or more likely he knows Old Testament.
39:51
He knows the Bible.
39:52
Like God, God tells you fear not, I'll be with you.
39:54
You can face 10,000 people and I got your back and, and you see it.
39:59
He's so calm in it and a little bit, you know, he knows what they're doing.
40:03
He was a persecutor for forever long.
40:05
Yeah.
40:06
He's kind of in the zone here and it's fun watching him work and it feels like he's got
40:12
him.
40:13
He's got the crowd.
40:14
He's got it under control a couple of times.
40:16
We'll see it in the next few chapters.
40:18
And then he'll come back to like, this is why God put me here and then they hate him
40:22
again.
40:23
And I love that it in my mind, it's a fight for him.
40:26
Like here, I got it won.
40:27
I can get out of jail and I can go keep, keep preaching God's word.
40:30
But that's not what he's about.
40:31
Like I've got brought me here to say that, Hey, we're going after the Gentiles like
40:36
that.
40:37
That's what we're doing.
40:38
He also lays down the, the case for it doesn't, like you're never too far gone for
40:43
Christ to save you.
40:44
It's like he's not, you know, I, I think we should all pray that our kids testimonies
40:48
are not very long.
40:49
Like that should be our prayer.
40:51
We should not, I mean, I don't want my kids to hit rock bottom before they find Christ.
40:56
But regardless of where you are, like I, I was the worst of the worst, Paul is saying.
41:03
And even, even though I did all these things, Christ said, go for, I will send you far away
41:09
to the Gentiles to go preach my, my message.
41:12
Yeah.
41:13
So he's laying, it doesn't matter.
41:14
It doesn't matter what you've done.
41:15
Christ is here.
41:16
You can lay it all at the feet at the feet of Jesus, you can lay it at the cross and it's
41:20
all forgiven.
41:21
Amen.
41:22
There's no excuse.
41:23
Before we move on to, did want to remind everybody about a couple of folks, these are
41:26
not paid ads.
41:27
This is just great resources for you guys.
41:29
So we've talked about crossway, a lot of great.
41:31
I think everything at the table right now is a crossway Bible, including the best Bible
41:34
journals on the planet.
41:35
They've got the spiral bound ones now.
41:37
So they will sit flat.
41:38
And so if you have problems like me writing in Bibles, you can just, you know, bleeding
41:42
all over this.
41:43
And, you know, if you lose it, you can replace it, but crossway and we developed a forging
41:48
table starter set.
41:49
So it's five books.
41:50
There's a great Bible in there.
41:51
There's commentary, some other great resources.
41:53
You can get that entire bundle for 50% off.
41:55
If you want to know how to do that, go to the show notes.
41:56
Where is it?
41:57
It's in the show notes.
41:58
So don't send me an email.
41:59
It's in the show notes.
42:00
Go to the show notes and you can check out how you can get all that at a discount.
42:03
And then also the Logos Bible software.
42:05
So I don't know how many of you in the audience have ever dealt with the Logos Bible software,
42:08
but it is the most powerful Bible study tool on planet earth that I know of.
42:12
So if you want to just go service level or you want to go as deep as deep gets, you know,
42:16
super theology land, you can do that with a Logos Bible software, but make sure you use
42:20
it at a discount.
42:21
So go into the show notes where the show notes, check out that link and you can get all that
42:24
at a discount.
42:25
Guys, let's go ahead and hit this last section here.
42:27
So Russ, or yeah, I got one more on that.
42:31
So reading it, I'm wondering if they're mad, the Gentiles or mad that he talks about like
42:39
argued with God.
42:41
God told him to do something.
42:42
He turns around.
42:43
He's like, Hey, Lord, how about I still go to Jerusalem and God's like, no, no, you don't
42:50
get to.
42:51
And so he's just going out there like, Hey, I argued with God.
42:55
It's true story.
42:56
And then they're mad at him.
42:58
And I love it because it brings up the wrestling story in the Bible, but as we all know, Jacob
43:05
Russell, the angel only got his name changed Israel, Israel means wrestling with God.
43:10
And all the best, like all the big characters in the Bible, all argue with God.
43:14
David does, you know, Paul does here and I love that and he's not ashamed to say it.
43:20
Like, Hey, I argued with God, I lost, but I argued with him and I think that's such a
43:24
big part of the Christian life is, is doing that is arguing like trying to understand,
43:30
Ah, there I am pounding on the table again.
43:33
That's okay.
43:34
But trying to understand like the, uh, what, where God's heart is, like, I don't get it.
43:38
Why, why am I not going to Jerusalem?
43:40
I love Jerusalem.
43:41
I want to see people save.
43:42
Why, why God?
43:43
And, and I think that's a big part of it that, that it's real quick in there, but it's in
43:47
there.
43:48
And I think that's a really good point because that is a big part of our walk.
43:50
And as Christians, as we're talking to people who aren't Christians or maybe new Christians,
43:54
like we shouldn't shy away from some of those hard questions because there's lots of hard
43:59
questions that you bring up and there's lots of hard questions I have now.
44:03
And I think one of the things I love most about our study school class for us is that
44:07
Terry's always talking to us about the hard things that we grapple with and God wants us
44:12
to ask questions.
44:13
He wants us to wrestle.
44:14
There's nothing wrong.
44:15
And I think that's a great point because that is just part of the walk of being a Christian
44:18
is wrestling with some of those really hard things and, you know, wrestling with God.
44:23
So sometimes I leave that and I'm like, Oh, I hadn't even been a problem in my mind until
44:29
the day, like thanks for bringing that up in my head.
44:33
Okay.
44:34
We think about that for three weeks now.
44:35
But it is.
44:36
It's almost like a coach that's putting you through it in a controlled environment because
44:40
he's anticipating that at some point you're going to need to know the answer of what you
44:45
believe on this.
44:46
It's almost like he's wise.
44:47
Yeah, he's a little, he's been called that time or two.
44:50
I don't know.
44:51
I don't know.
44:52
Well, hey, Russ, let's go ahead and keep this going.
44:53
Let's read 22 and let's go ahead and finish up the chapter.
44:55
So 22 through 30 there's a little weird numbering convention there, but you know where to end
44:59
it.
45:00
Okay.
45:01
Up to this word, they listened to him.
45:03
Then they raised their voices and said away with such a fellow from the earth for he should
45:08
not be allowed to live.
45:10
And as they were shouting and throwing their cloaks in flinging dust in the air, the Tribune
45:14
ordered him to be brought into the barracks saying that he should be examined by flogging
45:19
to find out why they were shouting against him like this.
45:22
But when they had stretched him out to be whipped, Paul said to the Centurion who was
45:27
standing by, is it lawful for you to flog a man who is a Roman citizen, unkondimmed?
45:33
When the Centurion heard this, he went to the Tribune and said, what are you about to do
45:37
for this man as a Roman citizen?
45:38
So the Tribune came and said to him, tell me, are you a Roman citizen?
45:43
He said, yes, the Tribune answered, I bought this citizenship for a large son, Paul said,
45:48
but I am a citizen by birth.
45:51
So those who were about to examine him withdrew from him immediately.
45:54
And the Tribune was also afraid for he realized that Paul was a Roman citizen and that he
45:59
had bound him.
46:00
But on the next day, desiring to know the real reason why he was being accused by the
46:04
Jews, he unbound him and commanded that the chief priests and all the counsel to meet and
46:10
he brought Paul down and set him before him.
46:13
So not as much of a cliffhanger as last week, but guys, I've been mad a lot in my life.
46:17
I've never been so mad that I flung dust into the air.
46:20
But the fact that they mentioned it makes it seem like when you fling dust in the air
46:23
that you are really mad, like murderously mad.
46:26
But you know, the examined by flogging here, just so I mean, guys, this was a Roman interrogation
46:30
technique is very brutal.
46:32
Like the cat of nine tails would have likely been used and they would stretch you out to
46:37
increase the level of pain that you would that would be delivered to you.
46:40
But again, we see the power of him being a Roman citizen because one thing that I didn't
46:44
know until I was digging in this week is if you claimed Roman citizenship, but weren't
46:49
a Roman citizen, that was a capital offense.
46:51
So if you were in the middle, yeah, if you were in the middle of like some sort of issue,
46:57
and then you're like, I'm a Roman.
46:58
I'm a Roman.
46:59
And it was found out that you weren't a Roman.
47:01
You would be executed, right?
47:02
And so this was a serious thing to where it's like the power of being Roman at this time
47:07
was so substantial and Paul's ministry again, God was in control, but Paul's ministry could
47:13
have been cut short at any point along the way had he not been Roman, like he couldn't
47:17
have gone through the same track.
47:18
He couldn't have had the different journeys and it wasn't always, you know, nice.
47:22
We can see there's going to be some bumps certainly coming through and the next little
47:25
thing here, but this saved him from an unnecessarily unnecessary flogging just because he was a
47:30
Roman.
47:31
And he saved it.
47:32
He didn't start with that.
47:33
Which is interesting.
47:34
Right.
47:35
That's where I think he was enjoying it.
47:38
He enjoyed the battle.
47:39
He's clever.
47:40
And he wants to give the word.
47:42
Yeah.
47:43
Right.
47:44
I think another interesting thing that sticks out to me is that Luke wants to make clear
47:48
that they were so enraged by him talking about Gentiles that they raise their voices
47:52
and literally called for his death up to this word.
47:55
Right.
47:56
He listened to him and then he said, like what you're saying, he said Gentiles and now,
48:00
okay, that's it.
48:01
That was the trap.
48:02
No more.
48:03
But whenever Stephen was preaching and it said that they plugged their ears and ground
48:08
their teeth, like it was just unacceptable for them to be saying the things that they
48:13
were saying and not just about the, so like, obviously between the Sadducees and the Pharisees,
48:20
you had the debate about the resurrection or souls in general and angels, things like
48:26
that.
48:27
So there were things that were already being kind of, kind of in turmoil.
48:31
But this idea of this is one thing they all agreed on, like we can, we can, we can have
48:36
this different belief, but not about the Gentiles.
48:38
And as soon as you say that word, boom, we're lit, we're ready to go, we're throwing our
48:42
stuff off.
48:43
We wish we had a, a Paul or Saul now Paul sitting over here watching our cloaks, we're
48:47
about to go.
48:48
There's not, there's not a ton of times where people tear their clothes off, but every time
48:54
it is such a violent emotion, even when Isaiah, isn't it Isaiah, I'm undone.
49:04
He throws, he tears off his cloak when he, when he has the vision of being in the Lord's
49:08
temple.
49:09
Like it is such a violent emotion, it's just like, what beautiful, like expressive language
49:15
that we know that they were just so, so angry and so violent.
49:19
Yeah, that's Isaiah, Isaiah six.
49:20
Yeah.
49:21
I think David did it as well.
49:22
I thought out his son was going to be born or died.
49:25
Yeah, it's not just mad, it's like violently mad.
49:28
Well, and it reminded me, cause I'll see these videos of kind of these man on the street
49:31
things.
49:32
And so you'll have these conservative firebrand type people, they'll go up to people and they'll
49:36
have some sort of debate about, you know, whether it's reparations or abortion or some
49:40
sort of inflammatory topic.
49:42
And there are certain people that are so intellectually fragile that the moment that someone starts
49:49
presenting an opinion that is different from their own, the only way they know how to respond
49:54
is not to listen, not to try to surmise truth, but it's to like yell or scream or you'll
50:00
see those people that will just blow whistles.
50:02
You have someone trying to, Hey, can we talk about this?
50:05
Like let's maybe reason together and they're just yelling some sort of slogan, my body,
50:09
my choice, my body, my choice are blown a whistle.
50:12
It's because now slightly different thing here because, you know, if faith is, is a gift
50:16
that we don't actually seek, but it's, you know, gift that God gives you slightly different
50:19
circumstances, but you do have those same people that are so intellectually dishonest
50:22
and they're just fragile to, to a core level that they can't possibly see his position.
50:28
It's because you said the trigger word, the trigger word was Gentiles.
50:31
So that's it.
50:32
I'm ripping my clothes and I'm throwing a dust in the air.
50:34
And anger is also, is also a sign of defeat and things.
50:38
So like, you know, we were talking about wrestling earlier and we have a friend that wrestles
50:42
and we would always talk about like, he would get, he would get into a wrestling match
50:45
and then all of a sudden the guy he was wrestling would throw a punch.
50:49
And I remember watching him one time, he threw a punch, hit him.
50:52
And then this guy, Kade, he turns back and he's smiling at us and we're like, what is
50:56
up with that?
50:57
And his mom like, oh, he knows right now he's in his head.
51:00
Like he's living, he's living rent free in his head.
51:03
And, and that kid was broken at that point because he could not get past anything.
51:07
All you'd think about is how mad he was that he didn't really know how to defend what
51:12
he was arguing against in that fight.
51:14
Yeah.
51:15
Yeah.
51:16
He who throws dirt loses ground.
51:17
Well, and I mean, and you've seen that Sam, because you've been on the competitor side
51:21
and you've been on the coaching side and you know, like going into a match, there are,
51:27
there are certain matches that there's such a gap in skill set between two people that
51:31
it's almost worthless, getting mad, but you can also tell when people are close, but one
51:36
guy's supposed to win and starts to lose.
51:38
He can't quite get the timing.
51:39
He can't quite get the finishes.
51:41
Maybe the ref gave a, you know, an advantageous decision to the other guy and they just can't
51:46
maintain their composure.
51:47
They just can't do it.
51:49
And there as a coach, you can see it immediately in certain wrestlers and it's like, it's almost
51:54
like I got to throw a Hail Mary just to get this guy's head back in the game.
51:57
Yes.
51:58
Yes.
51:59
Got to find a way to argue with the ref to let them cool down.
52:02
It, uh, I'm on them all the time like, Hey, emergency situation, like a first thing they
52:07
do is like calm down and tell me what happened.
52:11
When you're stressed out, you make mistakes.
52:12
Anybody stressed out makes mistakes.
52:14
So we want to get them stressed.
52:16
We don't want to be stressed, which Paul was not stressed.
52:19
It was impressive.
52:20
It, it also is a good call cause like when, when you're learning sports, like, you know,
52:25
I remember when Nick Saban came into Alabama in the second year they were there, they did
52:29
a big story on, you know, after every, at the end of every practice, they'd be tired.
52:34
They'd be like worn out and he'd do like a two minute offense and that they like physically
52:40
couldn't go, but they, they did a fourth quarter, two minute offense.
52:43
You're tired, but we want to practice these situations cause when we're in the situation,
52:46
you don't want to find out what you can do.
52:48
You want to already know that you can do it.
52:51
The Christian walk is that way too.
52:53
And Paul lives out like I am, I've been here.
52:57
I know this.
52:58
I have, I, I'm, I'm secure in my faith and I've walked this faith.
53:03
So I know that in confidence, I can live out this situation without be like succumbing
53:10
to the stress that is there cause like in any, any sports situation, the first time you
53:14
ever see a situation that you, that's new, if you've never practiced it, most people
53:19
are going to cave.
53:20
I think you're right.
53:21
Every time.
53:22
The way that I describe it and I've described it a couple of times this week to some guys
53:24
that I'm helping, I'm like, you need to be able to get to a point where you're, where
53:29
you see a heart situation and in your head, you say, I've seen me do this before.
53:34
Because the thing is, is your brain remembers, right?
53:37
And so I've seen me, I'm talking about me right now.
53:40
I've seen me get up mornings that I was sore, tired and beat up.
53:44
And I've seen me go to my garage and lift weights.
53:47
I've seen me do it.
53:48
I've seen me not want to get on the air dying bike or not get on the pavement and run sprints
53:52
or not do that last round at jujitsu or something.
53:55
I've seen me do it anyway, right?
53:59
And last sprint, because I work out alone.
54:01
So I could, I could dog it and nobody would know except me, but I've seen me do it so
54:07
many times.
54:08
But if you're the guy that constantly quits, you're going to work out for an hour, but
54:11
that's 30 minutes and that's probably good enough and you just leave.
54:14
You've seen you do that.
54:16
If you woke up and you're like, ah, you know, I just, I feel like maybe I'm a little off
54:21
today.
54:22
I think I need to have a mental health day or something like that.
54:23
I'm not super against mental health, but you've seen you pre quit, right?
54:28
And so that's the thing that I think is important for people is when, you know, I've Jobe's talked
54:33
about before where when you're in crisis, what do you do?
54:36
Do you run to God or do you run from God?
54:38
Because if your MO is to run away from God, you've seen you do that before.
54:42
So the next bad situation that comes up, you've seen you run away.
54:45
So you're just maybe going to continue that modeling and that behavior.
54:48
But if you've constantly lean in or you feel like the Holy Spirit's telling you to go talk
54:53
to somebody and you do it, it's just like, Oh, I've seen me do this before.
54:57
It just becomes old hat.
54:59
So when you are presented with a situation that is different than a situation that you've
55:04
dealt with before, you've seen you do something similar.
55:07
So let me take that same VIM and VIRV and drive into that situation as I did on this,
55:12
you know, one that's maybe tangentially related.
55:14
So I think that's important.
55:15
You have to get to that point where it's like, I've seen me do this.
55:17
Right.
55:18
You have to continually practice.
55:19
Yeah, for sure.
55:20
Very good.
55:21
Well, Hey guys, let's go ahead and put a bow on acts 22.
55:23
But before we do that, or yeah, acts 22 next week, come back ready to dig into acts 23.
55:28
But just real quick, Sam, maiden voyage, nicely done.
55:31
You did it.
55:32
Very, very well done.
55:33
You know, the table is probably a little worse for where a few cracks in the table,
55:36
but it's okay.
55:37
We can get beyond that.
55:38
But guys, for let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost add on to the life
55:41
our mission is equipping them to pushback darkness with content that forges spiritual
55:44
mental and physical resilience.
55:45
Do not forget about the forging table starter set through crossway and the log us Bible
55:49
software, you can access how to get those deals in the show notes.
55:53
And also a reminder, we have a donation link there.
55:55
We are a donation based ministry.
55:56
If you want to see us continue to get this content to the ears of men all over the globe,
56:00
hop on board and be a monthly donor.
56:02
Thank you for listening to this podcast wherever you're listening to this.
56:04
Please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.
56:07
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email
56:10
to info at undonton.life.
56:13
That's I N F O at undonton.life.
56:14
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
56:18
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
56:21
Just go to www dot undonton.life.
56:23
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
56:27
our content.
56:28
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album
56:32
on Face Down Records.
56:33
The links are in the description.
56:35
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
56:37
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
56:44
We're seeking the lion of Judah.
57:14
[BLANK_AUDIO]