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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:54
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:56
Let's get into it.
0:57
Welcome back to the forging table.
0:58
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01
forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:04
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:07
by digging into God's Word and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:09
us.
1:10
That's OG Matt right there.
1:11
But then we got a couple of the best arms out of the bullpen.
1:13
We got Russ and we got Dagan guys right from the jump here.
1:16
I got a very important question.
1:17
So am I get serious?
1:18
Am I get funny?
1:19
We don't know.
1:20
We don't know.
1:21
We'll just kind of see how it goes.
1:22
But this does kind of dovetail into Acts 21.
1:25
I want to know about a time.
1:26
So this could be a personal anecdote or just a story that you know of.
1:30
Okay.
1:31
So don't make something up.
1:32
But just if you can think of one where everyone else said, don't do this or do this.
1:38
They basically said in this situation, this is what needs to happen.
1:42
And someone literally went completely against the grain and it worked out for him.
1:46
Okay.
1:47
So again, the scenario, everyone's like, don't do it.
1:50
Or everyone's like, do it in that person was the only one there or the person standing
1:54
up and looking in the opposite direction and it ended up working out for him because we
1:58
all got opportunities that have happened with us where it doesn't really work out.
2:01
I'll start while you think of it.
2:03
So this one is an anecdote can't exactly say who, but there was a couple.
2:07
They were going through a pretty rough situation marriage on the rocks type thing like we don't
2:12
know for, you know, if this is going to work out type thing, kids involved the whole nine
2:16
yards, everyone in the woman's life was telling her, you have to separate, like you have to
2:23
separate.
2:24
You have to get out of the house.
2:25
And this was not a violent situation.
2:26
This was not like a, you know, her health was in or her safety was, was at risk here.
2:31
Okay.
2:32
That everyone said separate, separate, separate, including people that knew the statistics
2:36
on separation because the odds of you getting divorced after an official separation are
2:41
incredibly high.
2:42
Okay.
2:43
So some people think, Oh, no, it's just a breathing period bubble.
2:44
I know you're actually practicing divorce.
2:46
That's actually what that's happening.
2:48
And the husband was literally getting anybody who could to say, Nope, I'm not, we're not
2:55
doing the separation.
2:56
We have to fight this out.
2:57
We have to fight fair.
2:58
We also have to fight on the same battlefield type thing.
3:01
We can't be in our separate houses, getting used to separate bills and, you know, separate
3:04
schedules and you pick up the kids and then I'll take them next time, all that.
3:09
And this marriage is still kind of rocky, but they're both still in it.
3:13
Okay.
3:14
One of those situations where the practical advice that you would have given this couple
3:19
is, yeah, it makes total sense from a pragmatic standpoint to go in separate and then we'll
3:23
just reevaluate as we go.
3:25
But the husband was like, absolutely not, I'll do anything I can to avoid that.
3:30
And it actually worked out.
3:31
So you went full Hail Mary and that type of thing.
3:33
And so that was a situation that that I've, you know, come to know about here recently.
3:38
And that was something that I'm so glad that I worked out that way.
3:41
And so, you know, it still may not have a happy ending, but at least it's happy for right
3:44
now.
3:45
Now that's kind of a serious example.
3:46
But like I said, it doesn't have to be serious and it doesn't have to be you.
3:49
It could be an anecdote, could be someone that, you know, it could even be just a story that
3:52
you heard of before.
3:53
So something where you, this person was the only one that was not doing what everyone
3:57
else said.
3:58
Matt, you're already smiling.
3:59
So I feel like you've got one ready to go.
4:01
Well, it's not as serious as that, but it's, it's from, it doesn't have to be that has
4:05
from my days playing basketball for school.
4:07
I was in eighth grade and we ran this play every time down the court and I was a small
4:13
Ford.
4:14
So I was a three and I, I had a really good elbow jump shot.
4:18
I could hit it like a lot.
4:20
I could hit a high percentage of the time.
4:23
And the play was we'd have two passes.
4:26
I'd hit the elbow.
4:27
The pass would come to me if I was open and I was supposed to get it to our center for
4:31
an easy layup.
4:32
Well, we're playing these teams and they're like, our center was pretty good.
4:35
He's pretty big and they're like double teaming him and I shoot a shot and I miss the elbow
4:42
shot and my coach just goes ballistic and he tells me, don't ever shoot that shot again.
4:47
You're supposed to pass down low to the center.
4:49
And so we go through a few games and we're, we're losing games or we're barely winning
4:53
games and I told my dad, I was like, I'm open.
4:56
I know I can hit that shot.
4:58
What should I do?
4:59
He's like, well, you just got to make a decision and live with it.
5:01
If you, if you shoot that shot and your coach benches you like at least you did what you
5:06
thought was right.
5:08
Well then the next game, like he's like drilling in in our head like this is the way the play
5:14
goes.
5:15
This is the way the play goes.
5:16
And I was like, okay, I'm doing it.
5:18
If I'm open.
5:19
I'm hitting that.
5:20
He's specifically looking at you.
5:21
That's right.
5:22
No.
5:23
Every time he's like, don't hit that shot.
5:24
And I was pretty good basketball.
5:25
I had a pretty good shot and first play down the court.
5:28
They like nobody's on me.
5:30
And I'm like, why it open, I could have gone to the bucket for a layup.
5:33
And I just stopped and I could hear him, no, no, shoot, don't shoot.
5:38
And I just drill it.
5:40
And I look at my dad and I'm like smiling and he's like, yeah, I look over at my coach.
5:44
And he's like, good shot.
5:46
And I'm like, okay.
5:47
And so I literally just, I think I hit like four or five in a row down the court and he
5:52
said nothing to me the entire game and was just like, go out there guys, just keep running
5:57
that play.
5:58
Just keep running that play.
5:59
And finally, I was like, but yeah, so we finally after the game, I was like, you're
6:04
not mad.
6:05
He goes, no, you should definitely shoot that shot.
6:08
I'm like eighth grade kid going, I'm so confused right now, but it worked out in one.
6:13
So I have a, I have a silly sports one because Dustin, the guy that we both went to college
6:17
with.
6:18
So a lot of slow pitch softball was being played and we're playing in this restaurant league
6:21
and there were these two restaurants like we were the only people that didn't actually
6:24
play or work at that restaurant.
6:26
So we shouldn't have even been able to play.
6:28
But we're literally, this is about as contentious as a slow pitch softball game has ever been
6:32
maybe in history because these, these restaurants, they literally hated each other.
6:36
And we should have blown this team completely out.
6:37
But for whatever reason, it's two to two really late in the game, which makes no sense in
6:42
slow pitch softball.
6:43
If you've ever played slow pitch softball, but it was just everyone was playing tight,
6:46
a lot of pop ups, a lot of ground outs, that type of thing.
6:48
So bases are loaded and I'm up to the plate.
6:50
Okay.
6:51
And this ball is coming in and it's really high, like ridiculously high would not have
6:55
been called a strike and I literally hear Dustin from the dugout go, no, like Kyle,
7:00
don't swing.
7:01
And I take the biggest daddy hack at this ball and I hit a freaking grand slam and we
7:07
ended up winning the game.
7:08
And I was just like, I could have just as easily duck farted that thing like into right field
7:12
and it would just been super embarrassing to blow that opportunity.
7:15
But it was like, yeah, you don't know me son, but it was literally, it was just so funny
7:18
because no one can hear anything, no.
7:21
And then I hit it.
7:22
So that was probably the coolest thing I've ever done on a softball field.
7:25
So those are the type of events that feel like they last like 30 cents and the balls
7:29
come in and you hear no.
7:30
And then you're like, did he say no, right?
7:33
I think I'm going to him, I think I was saying, no, don't not swing like you don't really
7:37
know exactly what happened.
7:38
But you had already made you know, yeah, it could have been.
7:41
He made us use.
7:42
You just got to go with your gun.
7:43
That's right.
7:44
You just got to do it.
7:45
Now, had I duck farted it, it would have been the worst thing possible ever.
7:48
But all right.
7:49
All right.
7:50
Guys, you dig and rush.
7:51
You want to go?
7:52
Yeah, I'll go.
7:53
Friends a little bit more like Kyle's.
7:56
There was a guy that I went to high school with and he ended up like he wasn't a good
8:01
guy, like made bad choices.
8:03
And he got busted our senior year with weed in his backpack.
8:07
So he gets kicked out of school.
8:08
He has to get his GED.
8:10
He goes to community college like he's he's still not making great choices.
8:14
He's got terrible friends and but he's like he's he's a genuinely nice guy.
8:19
He's just kind of stuck in a rut of he's just bad decisions.
8:22
And he's just kind of living in him and he starts dating a girl.
8:26
And of course they they continue to date.
8:29
He's he's nice.
8:30
He's good to her.
8:31
He's fun.
8:32
He's all those things.
8:33
He's he's just he kind of comes across as a loser, right?
8:36
So the entire family's like and I would be too.
8:39
I'd be like, if if my daughter was dating this dude, it'd be no.
8:44
Yes.
8:45
Yeah, it'd be next.
8:46
It'd be no every step of the way.
8:47
Don't go on a first date.
8:48
No, no, no, no, no.
8:51
So they end up like he asks, you know, marriage is coming, the the the engagement question
8:57
is coming and everyone's like, no, absolutely not, you know, to where she's like her dad's
9:03
pulling her aside saying, if you you're going you're throwing your life away if you marry
9:07
this dude and and, you know, some probably some other threats about, you know, the future
9:14
and what the family's going to be like if you if you move forward.
9:17
So she marries him, right?
9:19
And he spends the first like 12 months of their marriage trying to find work and all
9:25
this kind of stuff.
9:26
And then he just kind of gets inspired because he's wait, he's woken up every day for a year
9:31
with this lady next to him who he realized he doesn't deserve.
9:35
And he's just like, just gets a wild hair and is like, I, I think I want to go and get
9:42
a degree and I want to go to med school and I'll be a surgeon.
9:46
And long story.
9:47
Sure.
9:48
And he's a story.
9:49
He is a surgeon lives in Kansas City.
9:52
Like he he probably still parties like a rock star like he probably hasn't let that part
9:57
go.
9:58
He says more money for cocaine.
9:59
But if you asked him, he'd say better parties now.
10:01
That's right.
10:02
This, that his now wife, when they were dating, she was the first person to come along in
10:07
his life to believe in him.
10:09
Wow.
10:10
You know, and it was like, like I never had anybody believe in me and it just motivated
10:15
him.
10:16
And now it's like, you know, I'm sure it's probably.
10:18
Well, really awesome.
10:19
And then you go to, did they get married?
10:20
This kind of sounds like a 90s.
10:21
I thought, I mean, I thought he was leading up to where he was going to be like, and that
10:26
was me.
10:27
And that was me.
10:28
That was going to be like, and now we've been married for, now I really regret the cocaine
10:31
comment.
10:32
If that was you.
10:33
Yeah.
10:34
Yeah.
10:35
Okay.
10:36
And my, my first trip to the OR, I'm going to cut on Monday guys, I'm doing it.
10:39
And his first surgery was some one of the, he was his coach that didn't like him or something
10:42
like that.
10:43
And he's like, I'm going to mess up your spleen.
10:44
Yeah.
10:45
Now he can't walk.
10:46
That's right.
10:47
That's the problem.
10:48
All right.
10:49
That was his first surgery.
10:50
That would have been, they will be next time I tell that story.
10:53
Okay.
10:54
Yeah.
10:55
The details aren't really important.
10:56
And yeah, it just has to make the story good.
10:57
All right.
10:58
Russell.
10:59
Yeah.
11:00
Okay.
11:01
So I have two, I have two.
11:02
I've got one that you're going to know.
11:03
I'm actually telling this story.
11:04
And as I tell it, I'm going to look at the two baseball guys.
11:05
I don't know if they can or use big a baseball guy as these guys.
11:09
Not as big.
11:10
No.
11:11
So, so there's this really fun.
11:12
I wondered that you think I'm a baseball guy.
11:13
Well, I think, I mean, I just, is this soccer guy?
11:16
All right.
11:17
I do.
11:18
Okay.
11:19
Gosh.
11:20
So this is all the pressure.
11:21
Here we go.
11:22
This is what I do.
11:23
He's a white Sox fan.
11:24
They don't win ever so.
11:25
Whenever we, whenever we do Bible study and stuff with Terry fakes, I just know enough
11:26
that I can reference and then I'll turn to Terry and be like, you want to keep going?
11:30
What is that?
11:31
What am I talking about there?
11:32
And then he'll reference.
11:33
He'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were talking about this verse right here and this
11:36
verse right here.
11:37
Thank you, Terry.
11:38
Yes.
11:39
All right.
11:40
So this is how I'm going to do this story.
11:41
Okay.
11:42
And for those of you that haven't seen it, you really need to go watch this interview.
11:44
But I believe last year, there was a baseball player who was a pitcher and it was some really
11:51
big game.
11:52
They were interviewing afterwards and he had stepped up to the plate and he was supposed
11:55
to just take all the balls, walk, do something or bun.
11:59
I think, I think the coach told him to bun and anyways, right before that he backs out
12:05
or something and he talks to the coach and he's like, coach, I can do this.
12:08
I can do this.
12:09
And coach is like, no, don't do it or something.
12:12
But anyways, he takes a swing at it.
12:14
He hits a home run.
12:16
Everybody is super excited.
12:17
The coach goes and does the interview with him sitting there and the coach is like, man,
12:22
I couldn't believe it or something like that.
12:23
And the guy, he's like, but the kid had told me that he used, he's obviously a pitcher.
12:28
We didn't want him swinging like that, but he did tell me that he used to pitch hit in
12:33
high school or something like that.
12:35
And the kid leans in and he was like, no, no coach.
12:39
He was like, I pitched this all time, he's like, they never let me hit in high school.
12:44
And the smile on this guy's face is just the biggest like, I didn't want to lie to you,
12:51
but I knew you wouldn't let me do it.
12:52
If I told you the truth and I knew I had it, it's, it's one of the best interviews.
12:56
You know what I'm talking about?
12:57
So I feel it was this in college, just a call.
13:00
Yes.
13:01
Okay.
13:02
Yeah.
13:03
I can't remember the school, but I do remember that because, you know, the coach was getting
13:06
ready to have his, you know, seminal, you know, but he thought he was going to have
13:10
a viral moment for just saying, you know, we just, he told me and then we just, we just
13:14
believed in him.
13:15
Right.
13:16
We're the, I'm the first guy that ever believed in him.
13:17
And that guy's like, Nope, I'm actually going to pull this rug out from underneath you completely
13:21
lied coach.
13:22
Just worked out.
13:23
He's just in the background while the coach is talking and the coach saying it and he's
13:26
just in the background.
13:27
You see this green coming up going, there's, there's people watching this.
13:30
You're going to know this is not true.
13:32
And so he just comes out with, he is like, no, not really.
13:34
But it worked out.
13:35
Yeah.
13:36
So that's the funny one.
13:37
I will say, so you guys know that we do this Bible study at six 30 in the morning with
13:43
a lot of the guys that are in our Sunday school class.
13:46
And whenever we first started that, we kind of had a moment like that.
13:48
I wouldn't say everybody was telling us, but the only time that we could find to do this
13:53
was six 30 in the morning, Wednesday mornings.
13:57
And at that time, you know, I mean, this was 10 years ago.
14:02
So I mean, like we were, we were late twenties, early thirties, a lot of life going on, not
14:09
in a position that guys want to show up six 30 in the morning at a Bible study.
14:13
And so we were trying to get it going, trying to say, okay, this is going to happen.
14:18
And we, we had a lot of people be like, that's just not going to work for guys your age.
14:23
Like they're not going to show up.
14:24
They've got other stuff going on, life's too busy, not going to work.
14:29
And like I said, that was 10 years ago, uh, yeah, Wednesday was just at the same Bible
14:35
study and it's been going strong and not just, it's, it's gone through different tiers of
14:39
leadership that has just taken it up.
14:41
But it's been one of those things that looking back, we were, we were like, well, we may
14:45
have two guys show up.
14:46
We may do this, but we'll still do it.
14:48
This is the only time that works.
14:49
So let's just do it then.
14:50
And if it works, it works.
14:51
If it doesn't, we'll readjust and, and it has been a constant since then.
14:56
So really, really cool situation with that happen to be like, ah, I guess, I guess it
15:00
did work.
15:01
I actually like that story today.
15:02
I was talking to a guy that's, you know, he was having a lot of problems like trying
15:06
to get these guys motivated in my community and, you know, I want them to, you know, be
15:10
working out and to be studying the Bible and to be praying and to be leading their families
15:13
and blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff.
15:15
And basically what I told him, I was like, okay, remember field of dreams?
15:19
If you build it, he will come again.
15:20
If you haven't seen that movie, it's like 40 years old.
15:22
So spoiler alert that he was not shoe list.
15:24
Joe Jackson was actually his father.
15:26
God, you can't watch that movie without crying.
15:27
I can't even like get through describing it without tearing up.
15:31
And so I, what I told him is if you build it, they might come.
15:36
I was like, your job is to create the environment around whatever the thing is.
15:41
But I said, don't make it easier, remove barriers to entry, but don't make it easier.
15:48
So if it's six 30, it just is what it is.
15:50
In the context that I was telling him that in was Sunday nights at seven o'clock at the
15:54
forge in Edmond, Oklahoma, my group of guys, we get together.
15:58
We're all reading the same book.
15:59
We discuss the book.
16:00
We do a workout.
16:01
We train Jiu Jitsu.
16:02
So it just is at seven o'clock on Sundays.
16:05
So that's the time when you and your wife plan out your week.
16:08
Okay.
16:09
I guess you're not going to come.
16:10
Or if that's the time where you're like kind of getting all your stuff ready for work for
16:13
that week, because you got a lot of travel, I guess you're just not going to come.
16:16
But the barriers entry we can remove is like, okay, it's not gi jiu jitsu.
16:20
It's no gi, because most people don't know how to spell gi.
16:23
Most people don't have a jiu jitsu gi just laying around their house.
16:25
And we don't have every size of gi.
16:28
So you we just don't have one ready to go for everyone that might show up.
16:33
So that's a barrier that would keep someone from coming because they don't have a gi,
16:36
right?
16:37
And so when you come, like the first time you came, you're like, what do I need?
16:39
I was like, you know, workout clothes and sandals.
16:41
It wasn't like, Hey, go to origin and buy an $80, you know, rash guard, official full
16:46
on rash guard.
16:47
If you want to shout out, use promo code undaunted and you'll get, you know, get 10% off your
16:50
order.
16:51
But like, I'm just trying to remove the barriers to entry, but we're not going to make this
16:54
the thing easier to do because I think what most people, you and I would talk about this
16:59
in college, we know with, with old blue crew and the different stuff we were doing is when
17:03
you try to make things easier for people, they will, or if you lower the standard, if
17:07
they miss the lowered standard, or even if they go above the lowered standard, it's still
17:12
lower than if you had had them shoot a whole lot higher, right?
17:15
So if you haven't shoot for this and they end up here, that's still higher than if you
17:18
haven't shoot for this and end up there, right?
17:21
And so that's, is that a reference to the quote shoot for the moon and your land among
17:25
the stars or something like that?
17:26
Yeah, that's kind of the dopey version of it, but that's exactly true because that has
17:30
that tattooed on a low back.
17:33
Um, no, but that's ultimately the thing is when we expect less, especially of men, like,
17:38
oh, the guys aren't going to show up at six thirty.
17:41
Some guys have that inner kind of FU like, okay, watch me, like watch me do this.
17:46
I'm going to six thirty so hard now or it's something like that.
17:48
And so it just kind of a, and it is what it is situation.
17:51
And so that would be my encouragement to people out there is like, yes, this is hard.
17:56
Don't try to convince guys that it's not hard.
17:57
Yeah, it's going to be hard to get out of bed and come here.
17:59
It's going to be hard to kind of read throughout the week to make sure that you're ready to
18:02
go.
18:03
But it just is what it is.
18:04
Do you want to get the value out of it or not?
18:05
Okay.
18:06
Well, you might, you may have to sacrifice a little bit.
18:07
You may have to plan ahead.
18:08
Also, that's biblical.
18:10
God holds us to a high standard, but it's not because he thinks that we can get there because
18:14
we can't.
18:15
We can't buy ourselves, but he still holds us to that standard, I mean, all throughout
18:18
the Bible, it's be holy because I'm holy.
18:20
Here's how you can't do it, but I'm holding you that standard regardless, right?
18:24
Well, these from the Bible study are going to hear me say this and they're going to call
18:27
me out.
18:28
I'm going to say it that I'm a little late to that Bible study, but I've been going
18:34
for like 10 years.
18:35
So you don't have to like there's a little built in buffer.
18:37
You got to see you already buffer.
18:38
Yeah.
18:39
Well, and I know, you know, it starts out with a lot of, you know, we didn't get started
18:45
until at least 645.
18:48
So this is also a great time to be like, guys, show up on time.
18:51
Okay.
18:52
That's if you got to be conscientious.
18:53
You got to get there on time.
18:54
If there's a time for something you might as well show up on time, I'll be right.
18:57
That's on me.
18:58
It's like ruined your entire story by saying you show up whenever you like it.
19:00
And I'm just saying honest.
19:01
Yeah.
19:02
All right.
19:03
Well, I appreciate it.
19:04
Hey, before we move on, I did want to throw out a couple of shout outs.
19:07
So a couple of guys have like totally hooked me up here recently.
19:10
So this is a pin from Doug in Tennessee.
19:13
This was made with olive wood from the Holy Land certified olive wood.
19:17
I have the even has the certificate of authenticity right here, bam.
19:22
And so he spun that for me and gave that to me before a speech I didn't Tennessee.
19:25
So a shout out to him, then also Josh from Jacksonville made me this.
19:30
He apparently does amazing stuff with leather and I don't think these guys run a business.
19:33
So I'm literally just giving a shout out because I appreciate it.
19:35
So 11, 22 on one side.
19:37
So we've got the, the sheds right there and then he put the on the logo on the other side.
19:41
So I'm not exactly sure if I'm strong enough to get this thing off in order to wash the
19:45
cup.
19:46
So I think I'm just not going to wash it ever.
19:47
Right.
19:48
So cause it's stainless steel.
19:49
That means it's going to stay clean forever.
19:50
Right?
19:51
Yeah.
19:52
It just means it doesn't get dirty.
19:53
Yeah.
19:54
That's what that's what I'm going to go with anyway.
19:55
And if you want me to shout you out on the forging table, just send us really cool stuff.
19:58
And then we'll, you know, we'll have it on the table and then it'll kind of work out
20:00
to everyone's benefit.
20:01
Our PO box is on our website on.
20:03
So I'm just saying don't don't send any bombs, but send some cool stuff, send bomb stuff,
20:06
but not bombs.
20:07
Is that work?
20:08
Can't say better.
20:09
Right.
20:10
Bomb, bomb, bomb.
20:11
Okay.
20:12
We might this far and actually have to get to the scripture that we're digging into.
20:15
And so I actually really like, yeah, that's the way that's why we're here.
20:18
And I'm glad rush you showed up whenever, whenever you felt like it, so we can do this
20:21
Bible study.
20:22
So why don't you actually, since you are here.
20:24
Why don't you go ahead and read the first 21 verses of Acts 21.
20:30
And then we will discuss.
20:31
Ready, set, go.
20:32
Talking to me around.
20:33
Yes, sir.
20:34
Yes, sir.
20:35
All right.
20:36
When we had parted from them and set sail, we came to a straight course to cost and the
20:41
next day to roads and from there to patera.
20:46
And having found a ship crossing to Phoenicia, we went aboard and set sail.
20:50
And we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left, we sailed to Syria and landed
20:55
at Tyree.
20:56
For there, the ship was to unload its cargo and having sought out the disciples, we stayed
21:00
there for seven days and through the spirit, they were telling Paul not to go to Jerusalem.
21:05
When our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey and they all, and
21:10
they all with wives and children accompanied us until we were outside the city and kneeling
21:15
down on the bench, not the bench.
21:18
We prayed and said farewell to one another.
21:21
And we went aboard the ship and they returned home.
21:25
When we had finished the voyage from Tyree and arrived to Toulonius, and we greeted the
21:30
brothers and stayed there with them for one day.
21:33
The next day we departed and came to, hold on, I lost my spot.
21:42
Parded and went.
21:46
And we entered the house of Philippi, the evangelist, who was the one of the seven and
21:52
stayed with him, and he had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.
21:57
While we were staying there for many days, the prophet named Agabus came down from Judea
22:02
and coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bounded his own feet and hands and said, thus
22:06
says the Holy Spirit.
22:07
This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him
22:12
into the hands of the Gentiles.
22:14
When we had heard this, when the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem, then
22:19
Paul answered, what are you doing?
22:21
We've been breaking my heart, for I'm ready not only to be in prison, but even to die
22:25
in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
22:28
And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, let the will of the Lord be done.
22:35
After these days, we got ready and went up to Jerusalem, and some of the disciples came
22:40
from Caesarea, went with us, bringing us to the house of Nathan, of Cyprus, their early
22:46
disciple with whom we should lodge.
22:49
Thank you.
22:50
Big, long section, but you nailed it, except for that, you know, a little C.S., so you
22:53
took there in the middle, but it's okay.
22:55
So here's the thing with this first section.
22:57
So he parts from the beginning, I guess the word parted there at the beginning, let us
23:00
know that it was a painful farewell.
23:02
But as I'm reading this section, it struck me.
23:05
And then I read a lot of commentaries, but I just want to see how it struck you guys.
23:08
I was like, wait a minute, was Paul being disobedient to the Holy Spirit?
23:12
Because if you go back to verse four and having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for
23:16
seven days and through the spirit, they were telling Paul not to go to Jerusalem.
23:21
And so if you're not familiar with where this goes, you're like, Oh, well, you know, these
23:25
disciples, these fervent seekers of the Lord got a message from the Holy Spirit to give
23:30
the Paul.
23:31
And Paul was like, not playa.
23:32
I'm just going to go.
23:33
I'm going to do this thing.
23:34
And again, you get back to, I was a verse 13, 14 for I am ready, not only to be in prison,
23:40
but to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
23:43
And this is after, you know, filled the evangelist, the only guy in the Bible who's actually
23:47
referred to as the evangelist.
23:48
So good for him.
23:49
And then you have Agabus.
23:50
That's like, not dude, this is not going to go well.
23:52
And this is precisely how it's not going to go well.
23:55
So how did it strike you guys?
23:56
Because it did kind of send me down the rabbit hole a little bit.
23:59
Yeah, I think for me it's not that these prophecies were wrong, but I think they're factual.
24:07
But the perspective of each was different.
24:11
Obviously Paul is hearing the prophecies that they're getting and I don't think there's
24:14
any reason to believe that the Holy Spirit didn't give these words to the people who
24:19
are saying, don't go.
24:21
But I think Paul was so convicted, he's like, Oh, okay.
24:24
So what?
24:25
Like Jesus told me this is going to happen.
24:28
I'm going anyway.
24:29
So I think their interpretation was he's going to die and we're scared for him because we
24:34
love Paul as a brother.
24:36
And so we're going to warn him because we feel like we should be obedient to that and tell
24:40
him that.
24:41
But I don't think there's any reason believe that they're wrong.
24:42
I just think Paul was so convicted.
24:43
He's like, I don't care.
24:44
Yeah.
24:45
I'm going anyway.
24:46
Yeah.
24:47
I thought that same thing when I read that, I read it like three times because that's the
24:51
first thing I thought.
24:52
I was like, wait, wait, like did anything change?
24:54
So back in verse 11, thus says the Holy Spirit, right?
24:58
And the Holy Spirit says, this is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns
25:03
this belt and deliver them into the hands of the Gentiles, period, end of quote, right?
25:07
Then they transitioned to verse 12.
25:09
When we heard this, we and the people there urged him.
25:13
So it's like transition from what the Holy Spirit said to what what everybody else they
25:19
are interpreted, right?
25:21
And so basically it's like Paul, the Holy Spirit didn't tell Paul not to go.
25:27
The Holy Spirit just warned him of the dangers ahead and the dangers ahead, like to everybody
25:33
else was, well, then this is a, then this is a no go like, and it's like to everybody
25:39
except Paul, right?
25:40
Like Paul's like, no, I'm, I'm going to do it.
25:43
And the thing that struck me after I kind of reread that was, man, am I Paul or am I the
25:48
people that look at it like, oh, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to, there's
25:54
danger ahead.
25:55
Oh, well, then I'm not going to go, you know, like, I feel like I live, I feel like a lot
26:01
of us live.
26:02
We live this life.
26:03
We want to, especially in America, right?
26:05
We and lots of countries, but America for sure, it's my point of reference because I'm
26:09
an American, but we, we, we live this life when we're inconvenienced, it's like, it's
26:16
like so traumatic for us, right?
26:18
Like traffic or they got my order wrong or I got, I wanted three Chick-fil-A sauces and
26:25
they gave me two, I'm turning around for that third thing, right?
26:29
Like this is terrible, you know, and it's, if I'm mildly inconvenienced, it, it, it
26:36
like makes me mad.
26:38
And these people, it's like, Paul is about to get massively inconvenienced and he's
26:43
still doing it.
26:44
Right.
26:45
Is that an understatement?
26:46
That's an understatement.
26:47
Right.
26:48
But I mean, like it's not like, hey, this, this may not be a fun time in Jerusalem.
26:54
You probably shouldn't go.
26:55
It's like, no, I'm doing it.
26:56
When it sees like the moody commentary said, you know, Paul, they didn't, I just summarized,
27:00
but Paul didn't see it as a prohibition, but just a prediction.
27:04
And so the Holy Spirit gave these people a prediction of what was going to happen or
27:08
not a prediction.
27:09
They're like, this is what's going to happen.
27:10
But they took that and gave the wrong advice as to what he should do.
27:14
So the Holy Spirit wasn't telling them, this is what's going to happen.
27:17
So this is what you need to tell Paul.
27:19
It was like, this is what's going to happen.
27:21
And they were like, Oh, no, we can't lose Paul.
27:23
And so they kind of took it on their own judgment as to kind of what that would look
27:27
like.
27:28
It's kind of like an, in hindsight, we agree with Paul on, on this type of thing sometimes
27:33
where we look back and we say, I would never, I would never wish that anybody went through
27:38
that.
27:39
And I would never wish that I went through that.
27:41
But after being on the other side of it, I would never trade it for anything because
27:45
of where it brought me out of.
27:49
But Paul has a unique perspective that he's able to see what he's about to go into.
27:54
And people keep on telling him and he's like, yeah, that's, that's, you know, part of this,
27:58
I wonder if whenever, whenever they said he's going to be bound.
28:02
And I think it says that he's going to be delivered to the Gentiles, is that what it
28:06
says there?
28:07
That he's going to be delivered to the Gentiles.
28:09
But that's, I wonder if Paul thought like, okay, well, that's where I'm trying to go
28:14
anyways.
28:15
Like, so I'm going to go to Jerusalem, but I'm going to be delivered to the Gentiles.
28:18
That's the part that struck me the oddest was he's been having all this trouble with
28:22
the Jewish population.
28:24
And then they say this and they're saying, you're going to be bound and then delivered
28:27
to the Gentiles.
28:28
He's got to be saying, well, it's better than being delivered to the Jews because eventually
28:32
he does get delivered to the Gentiles.
28:33
He goes to Rome.
28:34
So it's not like they thought they were predicting about what they were going to see
28:39
in Jerusalem, what they really were predicting was a longer span of what they're going to
28:44
see start in Jerusalem, go to Caesarea by the sea, and then end up with, with Rome.
28:51
Right.
28:52
I think he had the butt and I think it's kind of like getting advice on parenting.
28:55
Like before you're a parent, there's lots of people that tell you all the bad things
28:59
that are going to happen as a parent.
29:01
Some of those people have been parents before and some of those people have it.
29:05
Yeah.
29:06
And you can tell who hasn't been a parent because like, man, the kids are, you know,
29:08
they're messy.
29:09
They're dirty.
29:10
They get hurt.
29:11
They're going to scare you.
29:12
They can be true about there.
29:13
They can be right about those things.
29:14
But then when you talk to people who have grown kids, they'll say the same thing, but
29:18
it always ends with a but it's the greatest thing you'll ever do.
29:22
You'll never regret being a parent.
29:24
Parenting is one of the most amazing journeys you'll ever go on.
29:28
And being a parent, I mean, we're all parents here.
29:31
It does suck.
29:32
And you're like, like you've said it before, there's no pain like kid pain and it is terrible
29:36
but it's amazing and being a parent is one of the greatest joys you'll ever have.
29:41
So those people just, I mean, they didn't know what they didn't know.
29:44
So they're just trying to give him the information that they had.
29:46
Right.
29:47
They had information, but no perspective.
29:48
And so, because I remember when James was really young or, you know, right when Eli
29:51
was born, so we have like a two year old and a newborn.
29:54
And I remember in Sunday school, we're doing like an open kind of round table discussion
29:58
thing and we're just kind of throwing questions out because Donnie Van Kuren is a licensed
30:02
family counselor and therapist and so we're throwing things out.
30:04
My question was when do they become a blessing?
30:06
I was like, cause right now it freaking sucks.
30:08
I was like, and you're not allowed to say it, especially in church, you know, kids are
30:11
only a blessing.
30:12
But I was like, when, when does that part start happening?
30:14
Cause right now it's poop and it's yelling and it's, you know, no sleep and everybody's
30:19
at each other's throats.
30:20
But when you get a little bit further past that and I mean, we would get told by people
30:24
like Kyle, it's going to get sweet and everyone had a different age, but it's like, hey,
30:28
when they're six and four, or man, when they're like nine and seven, it's going to be so much
30:32
much like, and you can kind of see and the thing is, is they're like, you're going to
30:36
look back on these moments and you're going to wish you down back.
30:38
I'm like, no, actually F that I don't want to go back here at any point ever, no matter
30:42
what, but you can look back on it with some perspective, which was like, Hey, I'm glad
30:46
I endured when it sucked so bad because we do get to this blessing now.
30:51
And when you think about it, like, think about if you're in your nineties and you're like
30:54
celebrating your, I don't know, 70 year wedding anniversary with your bride and you've got
30:59
your great grandkids there and you take that big picture, you're not thinking about how
31:02
hard it was to, to save for their college plan or, you know, those, those late nights
31:06
or the colicky baby or any of that type of stuff.
31:08
You're just looking at progeny.
31:09
You're looking at these people that have souls, these image bears of God that came from, you
31:14
know, two people that made a decision to actually, you know, be fruitful and multiply.
31:18
So one quick thing on this section, I did want to read from the Moody commentary, because
31:22
again, I was like, wait, is he being disobedient?
31:23
And literally I go to the Moody commentary and it says, was Paul acting in disobedience?
31:27
And I was like, okay, let me read this section.
31:29
So I felt like this was helpful.
31:30
I'm not going to have us read these references, but for those of you listening, I know a lot
31:34
of guys are using this as their Bible study.
31:36
So shout out to you guys, make sure you go back to these references was Paul acting in
31:40
disobedience.
31:41
And if you have the Moody commentary, we are on page 1725 on the far right column, okay?
31:45
Since Paul acting in disobedience to the will of God by going to Jerusalem, several points
31:50
suggest that he was not first Paul himself sincerely believed that he was in God's will
31:55
see acts 20, 22 through 24.
31:57
Second, he was under the impression for a long time that he should go to Jerusalem.
32:01
That's acts 1921 and acts 23.
32:04
So this was not a rash or sinful decision.
32:07
Third, Paul was told that he would suffer greatly as he bore witness.
32:11
That's acts nine, 15 and 16.
32:12
So that suffering in Jerusalem would not be contrary to God's will for him, fourth, God
32:17
never told Paul not to go there, but rather warned him about what to expect.
32:21
That's acts 2023.
32:23
Finally, 2311 implies that Paul had God's stamp of approval on what he did and said in Jerusalem,
32:29
it is hard to conceive of the mighty apostle consciously disobeying the leading of the spirit
32:33
if he did not want him in Jerusalem.
32:36
And so that for me, just kind of like slam the door shut like, okay, fair question, fair
32:40
question to ask, but it does have a pretty strong logical answer.
32:43
Right.
32:44
Backed up by scripture.
32:45
One more thing before we move on.
32:47
I think there like when I read this specific section of verse 14, it, you know, my immediately
32:55
went back to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemiti when Paul ends his statement with let the
33:01
will of the Lord be done.
33:03
And like to your point, he knew he was in the will of the Lord, but he also knew that
33:06
they're like, this could end my life on this side of eternity, but I have surrendered my
33:12
heart.
33:13
I've surrendered my life to Christ and I'm going to go no matter what.
33:18
And I think there's a really great similarity there between Christ knowing, okay, this is
33:24
going to suck, but let your will be done.
33:28
If there's any, I mean, obviously, if there's any, if there's any way, obviously says if
33:32
there's any way for this to, you know, go a different way, I would say I'm paraphrasing
33:35
that's not a translation.
33:37
Is that the message for this to go a different way?
33:42
Oh, man.
33:43
If you could maybe come up with a different plan, my G, maybe we do it that way.
33:47
Gen Z Bible, shout out, but he knew, okay, it's going to suck, but like, let, let your
33:51
will be done.
33:52
Paul has clearly surrendered here and he's saying that like, Hey, I, like, yes, but let
33:58
your will be done.
34:00
That's not the last thing.
34:01
I had one more comment.
34:02
Sorry.
34:03
Actually, Russell is going to get the last word after you get ready.
34:07
You know, it, it, we talk about, uh, verse three, you know, they landed in tire, um, sought
34:13
out the disciples there.
34:14
They left tire.
34:16
They arrived in Tallameas.
34:17
They were greeted by brothers.
34:18
So what hit me was like, there's so much more going on in the Christian movement at the
34:22
time that acts doesn't even cover.
34:24
Oh, yeah.
34:25
So it's like acts as an account, but it's in an incomplete account and a huge swaths
34:29
of time.
34:30
Yeah, seven days.
34:31
Right.
34:32
Like this, you know, they stay somewhere for seven days.
34:34
It's like, that was enough.
34:35
It's like, wait, what happened in the seven days?
34:37
What did you have to eat?
34:39
Right?
34:40
Like we, but that's just really cool to think that the church is, is growing and their
34:45
plan is working and they're going from town to town and staying with Christians and growing
34:50
them and pouring into them, but we don't ever hear about that.
34:54
Uh, so anyway, that, that, that was encouraging to me.
34:56
Do we have a third last word?
34:58
No, mine was right online with what Matt said.
35:00
That's how reminiscent this is of Jesus understanding what was about to happen to him, saying,
35:05
I'm going to be turned over to evil men and, and the disciples just couldn't fathom that
35:10
that wouldn't change the direction of what he was about to do.
35:14
Instead, he stayed on course and we see Paul here taking the same steps.
35:19
So just, it's a blessing that God let me know, but I'm going to stay on course.
35:24
Yeah.
35:25
When again, we read, I never, again, I always say this, but it's bears, bears repeating
35:29
because we have new listeners every week and we're so thankful for y'all.
35:32
If you go back and read the gospels and think, Oh God, the apostles are so stupid.
35:36
So are you.
35:37
You would have been just as a dumb because you read this and it's like, Jesus is telling
35:40
them what's going to happen.
35:41
And then when it happens, they're in shock.
35:43
So the guy that can like raise his buddies from the dead and, you know, heal people that
35:47
just touch the edge of his garment and all that.
35:50
But when he tells you something's going to happen and it happens, you're like, no, there's
35:53
got to be a different explanation than, than that.
35:56
And so I think it's important to look at that as well because the apostles were like, no,
35:59
Jesus, you can't go like, and then again, Peter cutting off the Roman centurines ear.
36:03
It's just like, all right, at some point, y'all are going to like get the thread, but
36:07
just remember, none of us would have gotten the thread either.
36:10
All right, let's go on and dig in.
36:12
If you can read 17 through 26, this is Paul going to visit James, the brother of Jesus.
36:18
When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly.
36:21
On the following day, Paul went in with us to James and all the elders were present after
36:27
greeting them.
36:28
He related one by one, the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
36:33
And when they heard it, they glorified God and they said to him, you see, brother, how
36:38
many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed.
36:43
They are all zealous for the law and they have been told about you that you teach all
36:48
the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their
36:53
children or walk according to our customs.
36:57
What then is to be done, they will certainly hear that you have come do therefore what
37:02
we tell you, you have four, we have four men who are under a vow, take these men and purify
37:08
yourself along with them and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads.
37:14
Thus all will know that there is nothing in the way in what they have been told about
37:19
you.
37:20
Wait, wait.
37:21
Sorry.
37:22
I did ESV and it's still like jumbling my words in this one.
37:25
Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that
37:31
you yourself also live in obedience of the law.
37:34
But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that
37:38
they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what has
37:43
been strangled and from sexual immorality.
37:46
Then Paul took the men and the next day he purified himself along with them and went
37:51
into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the
37:55
offering presented for each one of them.
37:58
So there's a few different places we can go here, but I kind of want to focus in here
38:02
towards the end and I'll use, I really enjoyed the Moody commentary on Onax 21.
38:07
So I want to read this quick section here in reference to verse 25, James making it clear
38:12
that Paul's participation in the end of a temporary Nazarite vow, which is what's described
38:17
earlier in this section, a temporary Nazarite vow that four men had taken did not void the
38:22
decision of the Jerusalem counsel on law versus grace and the request for Gentiles to abandon
38:28
their previous pagan practices.
38:30
So what all that leads into is in verse 26, so then Paul took them in and the next day
38:35
he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days
38:39
of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
38:45
Paul was willing to become all things to all men, as long as the gospel wasn't going to
38:50
be, or as long as the gospel wasn't at stake.
38:53
And so we see that whenever he he circumcised Barnabas, right, was that X 15 or 16, but
39:01
he kept doing things that you're like, wait a minute, this is contrary to what they fought
39:05
for in the Jerusalem counsel and all that, but like Paul's like, okay, you want me to
39:10
wear a dress and dance and stand on my head or something like that, maybe not wear a dress,
39:13
but like, you know, if you want me to do this thing, that's fine.
39:16
As long as we don't soften the gospel or as long as we don't, you know, do that, I'm
39:19
not going to punt on the gospel in any way, shape or form.
39:23
But yeah, if you want me to, you know, do the, the end of this Nazarite vow with these
39:27
four guys and cleanse myself and shave my head and all that, we, you know, sure, I'll
39:31
go ahead and do that.
39:32
But that was interesting because I feel like, you know, maybe some of the more fundamentalist
39:36
type guys or like Theo bro type guys, it's like, no, you're, you have to do it this exact
39:41
way.
39:42
Or it's all bad.
39:43
We have to throw everything out.
39:44
And it's like, I hate this word, but there are times where nuance is necessary to where
39:48
like, this is not a salvific thing.
39:49
Like, we're not saying that this Nazarite vow is giving these guys salvation, but it's
39:54
just an important thing that these guys are doing.
39:55
So yeah, sure.
39:56
I'll do it with them.
39:57
Like that's just what struck me about this section.
39:58
I think that's a good point. I think we can get into our own heads and get into our own
40:03
like camp of what is right and what is wrong.
40:06
And to your point, the salvation issues are ground that we should always stand firm on,
40:11
but know that, you know, some people have different opinions on infant baptism and, you
40:16
know, all sorts of things communion, like all sorts of things are, there are differences
40:20
on.
40:21
But as long as we are in agreement on the foundational issues, which are salvation, like
40:26
our salvation issues, like we're all on the same team.
40:29
All right.
40:30
It was, it was Timothy and, and, you know, with the circumcision there, just got to,
40:35
I mean, you got to make sure the shout out goes to Timothy for doing that.
40:38
You can't give it to anybody else.
40:39
I'm sorry.
40:40
You didn't get cut, but like it is the idea too that, I mean, whenever we went through
40:48
that, that piece in Bible study and stuff, it's like, man, nobody else had to do that.
40:53
And so to like get here to just shave his head to do this ritual ceremony, he understood
40:58
the important stuff.
40:59
That's what I think I get from this is Paul, when he says I'm going to be all things tall,
41:05
all men, he's talking about empathy, he's talking about, I get, and that's how he preaches
41:11
so many times he says, listen, I was, I was the, the most zealot among you to uphold the
41:17
law and to go get these Christians and to do what was right.
41:20
And he was like, he was like, I know I've been in your shoes.
41:24
I know what you're feeling.
41:25
I know, I know how important this is to you.
41:27
And I think in, in this context, he really is just giving us a great example, even as
41:34
a leader inside whatever, you know, if you, if you're a preacher, if you're a teacher,
41:38
if you do a podcast, if you say enough truth, you're going to have people twist something
41:44
that you said and you're going to have the moment that you can viciously attack or you're
41:49
going to have the moment that you can humbly show them that that is not what you actually
41:55
believe, that that is not where they're trying to take your words does not match your heart.
41:59
And here I feel like Paul really sets that out to say, you know what, I can see what
42:05
you're saying maybe has a little bit of a little bit of substance to it to where how
42:10
they may have taken what I said and twisted it.
42:14
So to really show that I'm willing to submit myself to these elders kind of reminds me
42:19
of a pastor who's willing to say, you know, the elders have come about something, I'm
42:23
going to submit to it, even though I don't really think that was maybe that was taken
42:27
out of context.
42:28
But I'm still, I'm going to empathize with their situation here and do what I think is
42:33
going to draw more people unto Christ.
42:35
Well, and so, you know, a friend of ours and a friend of the show, Matt Chandler, he's
42:38
talked about for if you've said it, you've always said it, right?
42:41
And so because he's like, I have 20 years worth of sermons floating around the internet.
42:46
And so it's like, I probably said something I didn't agree with, like every time I think
42:50
to remember it on show, it's like, guys, we're on episode like 600 something, I probably
42:54
said something in episode 17 that I don't agree with now.
42:57
I probably evolved on some issues.
42:59
I probably have learned some things, but you also talked about submission to elders.
43:03
So you know, obviously that situation came up a couple of years back with Matt Chandler,
43:06
we're like out of nowhere, it's like, okay, this weird thing happened.
43:09
And then the elders like, you know, anyway, I don't want to, you know, violate confidence,
43:14
confidentiality or something like that, but the, the imagination that people had about
43:19
what happened in the situation is significantly worse than what actually happened.
43:24
And a lot of people that are in the know, disagreed with the elders decision to have
43:28
him take a step back in a forced sabbatical, knowing that he would eventually be, you know,
43:34
reinstated back to the pulpit, including Matt Chandler.
43:37
He did not agree with their decision either.
43:39
And with all the details I know, I think it's a, it was a horrifically stupid decision of
43:44
the elders because they literally made a mountain out of a molehill and turned a non-story into
43:49
an international story, right?
43:51
And people calling for his head.
43:53
But in that moment, he goes, but I have to submit to the elders.
43:56
What a great example.
43:57
Right.
43:58
And it's just like he could have been like, I'm the guy and I'm the guy leading the conferences
44:02
and I've sold all the books and who are you guys and blah, blah, you know, we're getting
44:05
rid of the elder board or something like that.
44:07
And there are some big pastors that have had elders back in the day that bounce them out
44:13
of their ministries and now they've launched new churches and they also don't have elders
44:16
anymore.
44:17
They incidentally have elders.
44:18
Yeah, weird.
44:19
And they only have a board of advisors that can't coalesce together and vote the person
44:23
out of their position.
44:24
And so they've insulated themselves, but it does show extreme humility to say, even though
44:29
I vehemently disagree with what y'all are doing, I will submit to your authority because God
44:33
told me so.
44:34
And what are we talking about later after the fact for this deal at Matt's church?
44:40
Like ultimately, what are we talking about?
44:41
We're not talking about, you know, any injustice.
44:45
We're not talking.
44:46
We're talking about how much we respect the person for doing what he's called to do.
44:51
Right.
44:52
Like, like, ultimately it's like God makes a, you know, he, he turns our messes into messages.
44:57
And he's certainly done that with that.
44:59
That'll preach.
45:00
Say it again for the people in the back.
45:01
God can take your mess and turn it into your message.
45:05
That just became a t-shirt.
45:06
So I don't know who's going to take advantage of it first, but maybe on your TikTok shop,
45:09
you can go and put that on there.
45:10
But make sure you give day, give credit and a commission.
45:12
One quick thing before we move off of this section, because we're going to about to get
45:16
to Paul getting arrested, when we were having this discussion and we were talking about
45:20
John MacArthur, the affair and, you know, how important he is.
45:24
But when you listen to someone like John MacArthur, he thinks and he has made full sermons about
45:29
how, for instance, all Catholics are going to help Catholicism is an apostate religion.
45:35
And you know, if you are Catholic, you are not saved, like, full stop, not, yeah, there
45:40
are some Catholics that have, you know, their orthopraxia is wrong, but they do have faith
45:45
in Christ for the propitiation of their sin debt.
45:48
And yes, they will be going to heaven.
45:49
He's like, Nope, if you're Catholic, if you participate in the Catholic mass, you were
45:53
doing something satanic.
45:55
And so I think about it in light of this situation with Paul to where he's like, I don't want
45:58
to friggin, you know, cleanse myself and shave my head and do this for these, for these
46:02
guys.
46:03
But he's like, Hey, if help somebody like get to the gospel, sure.
46:05
And so I even thought of my head, would I attend a Catholic mass with somebody?
46:10
And even if I had that opinion, that man, you know, Catholics are basically a step one
46:13
step away from Mormons, like they're, they've got it all wrong.
46:17
And I'm trying to like pull something into someone into the Protestant land.
46:20
Would I go to mass with that person and just say, yeah, I'll go to mass with you and, you
46:23
know, take the way for and do a lot of type of thing.
46:25
I think it's an open discussion and I think it does come down to, you know, people's individual
46:30
convictions on that.
46:31
But that was just something that came to mind is like, what would you do?
46:34
Because I would stop short of what maybe Alster Begg said about going to a gay wedding, right?
46:39
You know, so I would stop short of that clearly, but going to a mass or go in someplace where
46:44
I could turn that into a witness opportunity in the future, you know, I think it's worth
46:48
discussing.
46:49
I think it's your conscious has to be clear, but are you also, can you, you should be in
46:53
the world enough to, to be able to discern those types of things and not let petty reasons
46:59
get in the way of glorifying God or being obedient to God.
47:04
And speaking of John MacArthur, like he, I would say, is a giant of the faith as well
47:10
as, of course, was RC sprawl.
47:12
RC sprawl is, I've learned more from RC sprawl than most, you know, theologians, but those
47:17
two were really good friends and they vehemently disagreed on several pretty big topics, one
47:23
of those being infant baptism and they debated till they were both blue in the face.
47:27
But they did conferences together every year and they went and spoke at places together
47:33
every year and they preached the gospel together, even with all of those differences.
47:40
And so they knew, okay, they had to discern enough to know, okay, well, we differ on these
47:44
things, but let's preach the gospel together to bring people to Christ.
47:50
And I mean, how, how will this, does Paul know the fickle heart of man that, you know,
47:54
okay, sure, these guys want me to do that?
47:57
Okay, I'll do it.
47:58
If it brings glory to God and helps him, you know, come to faith, great.
48:02
It's got to be extremely, like you look at Paul's ministry and this has happened.
48:08
We'll see it more, but he is constantly kind of just put out there to be run over by the
48:15
bus on stuff, he goes in from town to town and he does his thing and, you know, previous
48:21
chapters we read that, you know, he gets stoned and then the disciples come and grab, gather
48:28
him up outside the city and it's like, he's just constantly kind of getting put out there.
48:33
And by this time, he's already, he's already talked to them about the last place he left.
48:37
He said, you know, this, it's breaking my heart.
48:39
This will be the last time I see you.
48:40
I know, I know that and I've done everything I can like I've left it all on the table.
48:44
You're, you're on your own now.
48:46
And then he comes to this place and they're kind of doing the same thing about don't go
48:49
here.
48:50
And he says, he says, listen, you're breaking my heart like this, like, like before, before
48:54
he was put to death, it was like this whole period seems like the biggest trial he had
48:59
more than more than the beatings.
49:01
He comes back to Jerusalem and he realized that people within his own church have basically
49:07
taken his words and are, and are misusing them and, and like the brokenness of, of what
49:14
I feel like this actually was for him was just a complete like broken humility, broken
49:19
and contrite heart before God just be like, whatever, whatever they need me to do to show
49:25
them that I am, I'm really have the heart that I say that I do about these people.
49:30
Yeah, as long as you were not short-changing the gospel and as long as it's not a salvation
49:33
issue.
49:34
And you know, you're vehemently old earth and you're invited to go with your buddies
49:38
to a young earth conference like, no, you're not going to go to hell.
49:41
If you go to this conference and like hear people's perspective, even if you think they're
49:44
hilariously wrong, like in that, that works in so many different issues.
49:48
And so we've talked about a lot of those here on the forging table.
49:51
So we need to get to this last section here.
49:53
So Matt, if you would read, well, second to last section, 27 through 36, when the seven
50:01
days were almost completed, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up
50:05
the whole crowd and laid hands on him, crying out, men of Israel, help, this is the man
50:09
who is teaching everyone everywhere against the people and the law and this place.
50:14
Moreover, he even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place for
50:19
they had previously seen, Tromiphus, the Ephesian with him in the city.
50:27
And they suppose that Paul had brought him into the temple and all the city was stirred
50:31
up and the people ran together.
50:33
They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple and at once the gates were shut.
50:38
And as they were seeking to kill him, word came to the tribune of the cohort that all
50:43
Jerusalem was in confusion.
50:45
He at once took soldiers and centurions and ran down to them.
50:50
And when they saw the tribune and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul, then the tribune
50:54
came up and arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains.
50:58
He inquired who he was and what he had done.
51:01
Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, some another.
51:04
And as he could not learn the facts because of the uproar, he ordered him to be brought
51:08
into the barracks and when, sorry, and when he came to the steps, he was actually carried
51:14
by the soldiers because of the violence of the crowd for the mob of the people followed
51:18
crying out away with him.
51:21
So Agabus was right, this is exactly kind of how it went down.
51:24
And it was such a serious situation that we see here that, you know, the the tribune brought
51:30
like up to 200 soldiers with him.
51:32
So imagine what kind of kerfuffle has to be going on right now where you have to bring
51:36
200 armed men wearing armor, like to come down and like take care of this one guy.
51:43
That's basically being mobbed.
51:45
So feel free to discuss this section because then we're going to get into Paul referring
51:50
to and speaking to his people here in a sec.
51:53
Well, in 28, they accuse him, they say, you know, he's teaching, there's really, there's
52:01
really, there's four accusations total, but the first three are that he's teaching one
52:06
against the people to he's teaching against the law and the three that he's teaching against
52:11
this place, which would have been the temple.
52:14
And then like, completely false accusations and then moreover, he even brought Greeks into
52:22
the temple and has defiled this holy place.
52:25
And so I think that it was Terry Fakes where I learned this, that there were signs around
52:33
the temples and they were printed in multiple languages, including Greek, right, basically
52:38
saying that if foreigners trespass, you're, you're responsible for your own death.
52:45
Like it's your fault that we're going to put you to death, right?
52:48
So those signs would have been there.
52:51
So obviously like Paul would wouldn't willingly bring people that are his guests across that
52:59
barrier knowing that that was, you know, I think even Romans even are like the Rome allowed
53:06
for those types of killings to happen, right?
53:08
Like, like that was a pretty serious deal.
53:10
So it's, it's kind of four accusations, all false.
53:15
And then, you know, I had been reading similar accusations were thrown at Steven, who was
53:22
the first martyr and the person who let those, they were cast down by a crowd.
53:28
The crowd was led by Saul of Tarsus, like same dude.
53:32
I think it was the same place.
53:34
Oh, really?
53:35
Yeah.
53:36
I read something I believe that said that this was, this happened at pretty much the
53:39
same area.
53:40
Full circle moment.
53:41
Right?
53:42
Yeah.
53:43
Like there's several full circle moments here.
53:45
He's being accused of something that carries a death penalty similar to our, our Lord and
53:50
Savior, Jesus Christ being, being accused of blasphemy, which carried a death penalty.
53:57
And the, the thing that stuck out to me the most here was the, the, the final sentence
54:01
where they say away with him, which is almost, almost like, eerily similar to how they,
54:09
the crowd reacted to Jesus away with him is another way of saying crucify him, crucify
54:15
him, take him away, get him out of here.
54:17
He needs to die.
54:19
And the similarities between Paul and Christ are, they're just in the Bible's full of
54:23
those things.
54:24
It's just very eerie and very interesting to see all of those things in a full circle
54:30
moment.
54:31
For sure.
54:32
Do you guys, do you guys see this as, it may be too strong, said like a warning against
54:37
it, but we see here in other times, you know, whenever they're telling not to go to Jerusalem,
54:43
Paul bucked that idea and said, no, like, I know I'm supposed to do this is where I'm
54:48
going.
54:49
And in this scenario, the thing that they tried to do to appease all these people, it
54:54
didn't work.
54:55
Yeah.
54:56
They went through so much trouble to try to adjust the minds of the people to say that,
55:02
like, you don't understand him.
55:04
This is his heart.
55:05
So we're going to do this.
55:06
So, so we just talked about his humility in that and accepting that and maybe in some
55:11
cases of elderboards, whatever, you're doing the faithful thing by accepting what they're,
55:18
what they are saying.
55:19
But that doesn't mean that what they're in this case, what they said was going to be
55:23
blessed as like the thing that was going to save you or the thing that was actually, it
55:29
was going to be shown to be wise or discerning like it actually is the opposite of that.
55:34
It's shown that it wasted some time and maybe, maybe Paul, he probably was sitting there
55:40
thinking, well, I just wasted these days.
55:42
I could have been in here preaching the gospel and I was trying to humbly do it this way because
55:47
they asked me to.
55:49
And then it didn't actually work out like they planned like I wonder if some of those
55:52
people had regrets and said, you know, that just kind of setting up, you know, the other
55:58
people, the Jews from Asia were able to see him in there and we should have thought of
56:02
that.
56:03
Yeah.
56:04
Like he's like, man, I just paid for four dudes to get their head shaved like this.
56:07
That was like, what?
56:08
That was a waste of money.
56:09
Right.
56:10
And so we live in a cultural moment where everyone loves to talk about injustice.
56:14
You want to talk about real injustice, some real like this isn't fair type stuff.
56:17
And so sometimes when you hear Christians like, it's not fair.
56:19
I feel like I'm being persecuted.
56:21
It's like, man, life's tough.
56:22
Get a helmet.
56:23
Like what, like, what are we talking about here?
56:24
Are you really complaining?
56:25
And it's like, look, you're not worried about Boko Haram coming into your village, stealing
56:30
your children, your female children and chopping off the heads of all the men.
56:34
Are you worried about that?
56:35
Because that's a level of persecution.
56:36
They're only doing that because they want to subjugate you because you're identifying
56:40
as Christian, right?
56:41
This is not the same thing.
56:43
And so when you go into a section like this, it's like you see injustice after injustice,
56:48
after injustice.
56:49
At some point, you just kind of have to deal with it.
56:51
I'm going to go ahead, hit this.
56:53
One more thing, like again, to the despair of Paul right here is that back in around
57:01
20, I believe, it says, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have
57:07
believed.
57:08
So like we know that there are believing Christians like messianic Jews in this group, but they
57:15
have not made that one another connection with Paul and some of the commentaries, some
57:20
of the commentaries were really harsh on those people saying like, yeah, they were probably
57:25
there and some of them probably disagreed with some of the stuff or bought into some
57:30
of the lies and things like that.
57:31
But again, to Paul's despair, he is going through this alone and there's thousands of
57:38
Christ believing Jewish people around and for whatever reason, he doesn't have a posse of
57:44
people being like, hey, we believe the same thing.
57:47
Like if you stone him, you got to stone all of us.
57:50
It's just again, like what he was brought through, how much he went through in this
57:55
time.
57:56
It's kind of remarkable.
57:57
Can I make one historical, just note here, it's interesting how you see just glimpses
58:03
of things and Terry facts, he can he goes into in more detail on some of these things,
58:08
just how much the Romans didn't know how to handle the Jewish people.
58:13
Like the trib unit, he's over a thousand soldiers.
58:16
He has two centurions who are over a hundred soldiers.
58:19
He's who got 200 soldiers.
58:20
They could have ended this thing so quickly.
58:22
Like these people could have all been dead, but they're they arrest Paul because they care
58:26
about order instead of just ending this with force that they could have exerted like that.
58:33
And it's just so interesting that they just don't know what to do with these Jewish people
58:36
everywhere else in the Roman Empire.
58:38
That's that's done.
58:39
Like it doesn't happen or it's done so quickly that people never want to do it again.
58:42
But the Jewish people for something, they're just so devout and all their beliefs, they're
58:46
like, I don't know what to do with this.
58:47
Well, and we get a Roman ruler here in a few chapters that part of the reason why we may
58:53
be seeing this behavior from the Romans is because they had dealt in a very heavy handed
58:57
manner with the Jews before and it kind of led to their downfall.
59:00
So we're going to get to that here in a second.
59:01
Let me read this last section here as Paul was about to be brought into the barracks.
59:05
He said to the Tribune, may I ask may I say something to you?
59:08
And he said, do you know Greek?
59:09
Are you not the Egyptian then who recently stirred up a revolt and led the 4,000 men
59:14
of the assassins out into the wilderness?
59:16
Paul replied, I am a Jew from Tarsus in Salicia, a citizen of no obscure city.
59:22
I beg you, permit me to speak to the people.
59:25
And when he had given him permission, Paul standing on the steps, motion with his hands
59:29
to the people and when there was a great hush, he addressed them in the Hebrew language,
59:33
saying cliffhanger, we'll get to that next week.
59:36
Guys, come back here next week where we're going to be digging into acts 22, but before
59:40
that you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost, add an adult to life or mission is
59:44
equipping men to push back darkness and content that for just spiritual mental and physical
59:47
resilience.
59:48
I forgot to mention it, but we do have a forging table starter set and guys, I get so
59:52
many people are like, where do I get the starter set?
59:53
I say it every time in the show notes, so wherever you're listening to this, go to the
59:58
episode and click on the notes and it will link you directly to our website.
1:00:02
There's instructions there for how you can get all five of these books at a 50% discount.
1:00:06
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So if you want the strongest and best Bible software on planet earth, but you don't want
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1:00:16
Show notes go there in the show notes and you can check out that link.
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we need you to hop on board and be a donor.
1:00:29
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
1:00:31
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
1:00:33
star review.
1:00:34
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email
1:00:38
to info@undonton.life.
1:00:40
That's I N F O at undonton.life.
1:00:43
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:00:46
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:00:48
Just go to www.undonton.life.
1:00:50
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
1:00:54
our content.
1:00:55
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
1:00:59
on Face Down Records.
1:01:00
The links are in the description.
1:01:02
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:01:04
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:01:11
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:01:25
[music]