THE FORGING TABLE | Acts 17 (Ep. 665)

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1:19 This is Undaunted Life A Man's Podcast.

1:22 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.

1:26 Welcome back to the forging table.

1:27 The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that

1:30 forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

1:32 At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by

1:35 digging into God's Word.

1:36 And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.

1:39 We've got a couple of Vojis in the house today.

1:40 We've got Ryan Horn and Eric Browning, but guys, if you're wondering out there why we're

1:43 going to be behaving over these next several episodes, because we have a real life lead

1:47 pastor and elder of our actual church, Jay Reisner.

1:51 Welcome to Undaunted Life A Man's Podcast.

1:53 Great to be here.

1:54 Thank you for the invite.

1:55 Why did you accept the invitation?

1:56 I just got to be honest.

1:57 Since you accepted it, I was like, I don't know why.

1:58 Does he know some of the things that I've said publicly?

2:01 Like I don't know why you're here.

2:02 Is this part of my punishment?

2:03 Sheer curiosity and accountability.

2:07 Let's focus on the curiosity part more than the accountability part.

2:10 But no, no, in all honesty, I wanted to have you on here because we've talked a lot on

2:15 the forging table about faith Bible church.

2:17 I've talked about faith Bible church a lot on my show, and we've talked about in a lot

2:21 of different reasons and different ways, and we talked about the growth and all that.

2:25 But for you personally, probably the best place to land is you are the only person at

2:29 the table that is a professional Christian, and that's pretty fancy.

2:32 So I know you have cards, you give out to people at coffee shops, it just says that.

2:35 I am a professional Christian, so why did you decide to go that route with your career

2:39 and not do something else?

2:41 Oh, man, great question.

2:43 I don't have any other discernible skills for one.

2:47 No, I was in college, you know, I went to the same university, it was a business major,

2:52 but was involved in ministry all along the way, that's where my heart was, that's what

2:56 I really had a passion for, and just my senior year, pray to God, God will do anything you

3:02 want me to do.

3:03 If you want to sell insurance, great, I'll do that to God's glory.

3:06 If you want me to go overseas, I'll do that to your glory.

3:10 And just gave my heart surrendered totally to him, and he led me toward vocational ministry,

3:16 and that's where the opportunities came, and the doors opened, and stepped through those

3:19 doors, and just have been in it for 26, 27 years now.

3:23 And now the interesting thing about you, you were at Faith Bible, but you actually left,

3:27 and then came back.

3:28 So I forgot the details, but why did you leave, why did you come back, what were the reasons

3:34 for that?

3:35 Yeah, great question.

3:36 So came to Faith Bible originally in 2003, was a student pastor, navigated a bunch of

3:42 good stuff there, growth in the church, my own maturation as a pastor, and husband, and

3:50 then father, and then left youth ministry, but stayed at Faith Bible.

3:55 So I got out of youth ministry, served in that capacity for about 11 years, started

3:59 working more with ministry development, adult ministries, ABFs, we called them Sunday School

4:03 at the time.

4:04 Don't worry, we'll get there.

4:06 Yeah, and got about nine or 10 years into my time at Faith Bible, and really felt this

4:11 is okay, I need to, I think I want to lead, I think I want a senior pastor, I want to

4:15 do more preaching, serving that kind of capacity, and an opportunity came along that was in

4:22 my wife's hometown in Enid, Oklahoma.

4:25 So smaller church there, not a small church by church standards, but a smaller church

4:30 than Faith Bible, but perfect in terms of what God had set me up for, in terms to go

4:36 there and lead and establish that church and some good things, and then also spend about

4:41 four years there.

4:43 And also part of my statement is they kind of set me up to come back to Faith Bible.

4:49 So in 2015, 2016, I've been there three or four years, the elders of faith said, hey,

4:54 we want you to return to the church.

4:57 We've designed a staff position with you in mind, and originally I said no, it was super

5:04 flattering, very affirming, but I was just in the middle of some things I couldn't walk

5:07 away from.

5:08 And so originally said, no, put it on the back burner.

5:11 They came back to me about nine months later or so, and I said, yeah, I think the timing

5:16 might be right.

5:17 So came back and did back a little over eight years.

5:19 Okay, a little over eight years, you said, okay, I want to actually talk about that, but

5:22 funny thing you bring up Enid because this morning, my wife was trying to distract my

5:27 son because, you know, we're potty training one of the kids and the older kid was kind

5:30 of being a jerk.

5:31 So my wife goes out in the garage to find a new toy and she finds like a globe that she

5:35 used to have in her room.

5:36 And so what's like, hey, where are we on the globe?

5:39 And we go to Oklahoma on this, this globe, right?

5:42 One of the ones that you spend that was in your elementary school, there are three cities

5:45 that are named that you can see on this globe, Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Enid for Oklahoma.

5:50 And I was like, Enid really?

5:52 And here we are, like, I apparently, like my goodness, okay, got a funny thing to talk

5:57 about though.

5:58 So when we became members at Faith Bible, we had to have an elder come and talk to us

6:03 and meet with us.

6:04 So Jen was the elder that came to talk to us.

6:06 And so he told us that he was an Enid and like my wife, her family grew up an Enid.

6:11 Like her parents had Enid.

6:13 Her grandparents still live there and he's like, who's your, who's your parents?

6:16 And he goes, my wife said, you know, well, they don't live there anymore, but my grandfather

6:21 and grandmother still do Paul and Sally.

6:23 And he goes, I coached football with Paul at OBA.

6:27 And I was like, crazy.

6:28 And so then we tell them about the rise nurse and then we talk about your wife.

6:33 Well, her father, so his father-in-law is the one that led my father-in-law to Christ

6:38 and got him into ministry.

6:40 True story.

6:41 How about that?

6:42 Yeah.

6:43 Browning, do you have any cool stories?

6:44 Because we're both on the crappy side of the table at the moment.

6:46 Did Enid used to have a minor league baseball team back in the day?

6:51 I'm sure that they did.

6:52 They were really...

6:53 Every little town in Oklahoma had like a semi-pro team.

6:54 So I'm sure Enid did.

6:55 I remember playing baseball in Enid at what I thought was a minor league baseball field.

7:01 And I just remember the backstop being like, I felt like 300 feet.

7:04 Do not let the ball get past you.

7:06 Exactly.

7:07 You're going to take like at least two bases.

7:09 But...

7:10 Were you the catcher?

7:11 Well, interesting.

7:12 Yeah.

7:13 So I played catcher all my life.

7:15 And when we moved from North Carolina in the middle of my high school career to Stillwater,

7:20 we'd go up and first day at baseball, everybody's like, "Hey, you know, who are you?

7:25 And where'd you come from?"

7:26 And eventually they're like, "What position do you play?"

7:29 And very confidently I said, "I play catcher.

7:31 I played it all my life.

7:32 I'm looking forward to it."

7:33 And they just stood there and looked at me and then started shaking their head.

7:35 They're like, "You don't play catcher anymore."

7:36 And I was like, "Oh, really?"

7:38 They're like, "No.

7:39 Josh Holiday plays catcher."

7:40 And I was like, "Well, we'll see about this."

7:42 Well, that took...

7:43 That took all of about one practice.

7:45 And I was like, "Oh, okay, Josh Holiday is pretty darn good.

7:49 Interestingly enough, the next year, my senior year, I tried out the right field because

7:53 that's where I'm playing now.

7:55 And it's American Legion and a freshman trots out the right field with me.

8:00 And it's Matt Holiday.

8:01 It took one throw for me to realize, "I'm going to go play first day as for DH.

8:05 It's over."

8:06 Right.

8:07 I think I'm going to get really smart.

8:08 I think I'm going to learn to be in all these AP classes.

8:11 Okay, I don't have any cool stories on that, but I do want to get into this because I've

8:14 talked about this on the show quite a bit.

8:16 The growth of Faith Bible.

8:18 It seemed like it was because we've been there probably six years.

8:22 My wife and I have probably been there six years, maybe seven, but it seemed like it

8:25 was slow, slow, slow over decades, slow, slow, slow, and then hockey stick.

8:31 And so from my perspective, not doing this professionally, not being in the leadership

8:36 of the church, it was like, "Okay, had the building project, right?

8:40 So we expanded the building.

8:42 That expansion ended right around that COVID time period.

8:46 There were a couple of enormous churches in our area that were really diving more into

8:52 some of the cultural social issues and not really doing it in a way that was maybe biblical.

8:57 A lot of people were being woken up to like, "Oh, I don't really know if this is the best

9:01 place for us and our family.

9:03 Maybe we need something that's a little bit more Bible-based and less life lessons type

9:07 of thing."

9:08 And then all of a sudden, every last bit of building that was built was filled up immediately.

9:15 Like I remember at one point, I think I heard Connie, who runs the kids program, that we

9:18 were adding five or six new families a weekend.

9:21 So that's mom, dad, children, right?

9:24 And we got breeders in this community, apparently.

9:26 So it's like, if you don't have three or four kids, you're just not in the club, right?

9:29 And so that was happening.

9:30 And then almost immediately it was like, "Okay, we got to expand the parking lot."

9:33 Okay.

9:34 And then this morning, I read an email from you guys about the parking situation being

9:38 like complete, like an absolute travesty, like all the staffs having to park off site.

9:43 Like it's kind of like this whole big thing, there is no more space that can be put on

9:47 this plot of land unless we go up.

9:49 So talk to me a little bit about the expansion of the church.

9:53 Was this the idea?

9:54 We're going to build it and they will come and it's just going to fill up and everything's

9:57 going to be great?

9:58 Like, you know, what was the idea around all that?

10:00 Man, great question.

10:02 I'll try to be brief.

10:03 So back in, you're right, the growth of faith Bible has always been very incremental.

10:09 When I first came in 2003, we maybe had 600 or so people there.

10:12 And just kind of grew steadily over time.

10:16 And then coming back, the idea was, "Okay, we need more space."

10:20 When I say coming back, I'm talking about 2016, 2017, what are we going to do?

10:24 What are we going to build?

10:26 Our footprint needs to expand.

10:28 So in discussing that, Mark and I were having these conversations and we're kind of like,

10:32 "Okay."

10:33 That's Mark Hitchcock for all of you guys out there.

10:35 The great Mark Hitchcock?

10:36 Yeah, our senior pastor, Mark Hitchcock's been at the church 33 years.

10:39 Our determination was, "Okay.

10:41 We're going to church less not more."

10:43 The culture is moving, and granted, this is pre-COVID, this is 2017-ish.

10:48 The culture is moving in a direction where maybe hostility toward Christianity is increasing.

10:53 And so anybody sort of in the squishy middle is just going to kind of drop church entirely.

10:59 So as we were thinking along those lines, we thought, "Okay, well, let's build certainly,

11:03 but let's not get too crazy.

11:06 Let's increase our capacity by about 50%.

11:08 So we did some creative things and accomplished that goal.

11:12 And then as you said, COVID happens.

11:15 There's a huge shuffle in churches, and that's not just in Edmund, that's all over the country.

11:21 And there's so many different factors we could get into, but I would say chiefly what people

11:27 realize during 2020 is, "Okay, I'm not squishy in my theology or in my doctrine or my commitment

11:34 to Christianity, but it kind of looks like my church might be."

11:39 And so those people started looking for places that were solid and that their theological

11:47 anchors went really deep, and that the truth of God was taught and the Bible was unapologetically

11:52 preached.

11:53 And so that led to a huge influx of people to faith Bible post-COVID.

11:57 Now, that influx didn't really happen until the first part of '22.

12:02 A lot of people, you look at the graph and you're like, "Okay, yeah, we were kind of

12:08 coming back."

12:09 And there were a lot of new people at the end of '20 and at the start of '21.

12:13 But then there was, if you remember, what were the different variants?

12:17 Delta, Oberon, all these little things caused the attendance to go down again.

12:23 But then in '22, as you just said, it's everything just spiked.

12:28 And so we created the space in that building project to accommodate more people.

12:34 And our thinking when we created it was, you know, 2,000 or so people, that's a lot of

12:38 people to say grace over.

12:40 That's a lot more than never been here before.

12:42 So let's just aim at that and we got there really, really fast.

12:46 And so it's funny, growth can be intoxicating for church leader.

12:53 You want to kind of get away from the thinking this is growth at all costs.

12:56 You don't want to run in that direction.

12:58 You want to keep things healthy, you want to keep things on point.

13:03 Stay committed to your core values, all those different things.

13:05 But you know, we've always been a little bit understaffed.

13:09 We've always kind of had a lean approach to ministry and staffing and so on and so forth.

13:14 But in the last year or so, I mean, we just keep on boarding staff, which keep getting

13:18 creative with our ministry approach and with our programming so that we can get as many

13:22 people in the building as possible.

13:24 The problem is your building capacity has to match your parking capacity and all those

13:29 things have to align.

13:31 And we're now at a point where we're getting a little bit out of whack.

13:35 So I have an idea to fix that.

13:37 Okay.

13:38 The parking problem.

13:39 Oh boy.

13:40 Just have Kyle teach one Sunday.

13:41 Oh.

13:42 Aww.

13:43 Aww.

13:44 The ABF gets too big.

13:45 We're like, Hey Kyle, it's your turn to teach.

13:47 That's actually true.

13:48 That's why three or four times a year we got to then the herd.

13:51 And then they'll have me talk about Calvinism to make sure nobody else comes back.

13:54 I mean, there, there are no sidewalks that lead to faith Bible church and Edmund, there's

13:58 no sidewalks sidewalks that really lead anywhere.

14:00 Yeah.

14:01 So very much a call, our car culture, families that bring two, three, even four cars to church.

14:06 And then when you go to Target or anywhere else for that matter, there's ample parking.

14:11 So people think there's no parking when there's no parking near the door.

14:15 Right.

14:16 Yeah.

14:17 So, you know, we're up against that cultural difference as well.

14:18 One of the things that I appreciated, you can tell me if I'm wrong, one of the first big

14:23 building projects seemed to be for the kids.

14:27 And I think I remember just that one of the focuses was we need to build kind of this

14:32 with a multi-generational viewpoint, so we built something bigger for the kids.

14:35 I mean, at one point you're looking at our church and it looked like the kids section

14:39 was like 60, 70% of our church.

14:41 I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I appreciated that, that you're investing not only in the

14:46 people that are already coming, but also their kids.

14:48 And we've seen that, I think when you look at like VBS and our, you know, our summer,

14:54 what am I trying to do?

14:55 Not VBS.

14:56 No, that is VBS.

14:57 And then I wanna, yeah.

14:58 And like how many people are participating in that, you know, and just the growth.

15:01 About one in four human beings on the campus on a Sunday morning is between the age of

15:06 zero and eleven.

15:08 I didn't realize that.

15:10 But that makes perfect sense.

15:11 Well, and that was one of the things that whenever I was describing the church to people,

15:15 because I've described this a lot before, you know, we were at Life Church for over ten

15:18 years.

15:19 And then we kind of did the shopping thing like, ah, we don't have kids yet.

15:21 Like, what are we really doing?

15:23 And we did this whole big matrix and like figured out and we went all these churches and then

15:26 it came down to a tie between Faith Bible and Life Church.

15:29 My wife just goes, look, I don't really care.

15:30 Like I trust you, like, let's just figure it out.

15:33 And it's kind of what you said earlier, the theological roots of faith are very, very

15:37 deep.

15:38 Now, there are things that are going to be missing if you're used to a light show.

15:41 And you know, this, you know, this otherworldly kind of TED talky presentation.

15:45 And it's like, but I always came back to the exact same thing.

15:48 I said, Faith Bible is healthy, like it may not be my favorite, favorite worship, it may

15:52 not be my favorite songs, it may not be my favorite preaching style, because it's somewhat

15:56 formulaic, but it's like, we are going, it took us like six months to get through Colossians.

16:01 Colossians takes about seven minutes to read, right?

16:03 And so it's like, where else are you going to be getting that?

16:06 And so I think a lot of people are asking themselves kind of what you were said when

16:10 people that are like, well, I'm not squishy.

16:12 These were people that I think woke up and were like, wait a minute, I'm supplementing

16:15 my own home church with other ministries to try to feel like I'm being discipled.

16:20 And like at our church, I just don't feel like like we go that route.

16:23 Now, when I talked, uh, Joby Mar was in town and so him and, uh, you got to meet him just

16:29 for a little bit, but Mark and, uh, Joby and I kind of sat down as office for a little

16:33 bit.

16:34 And I don't think I'm like, uh, violating, uh, you know, confidence, confidence or anything

16:38 like that.

16:39 But, uh, Mark kind of mentioned a little bit about what the plan would be lightly kind of

16:45 like you can see through the glass dimly what the plan would be moving forward for the expansion

16:49 of, I guess you could call it the faith Bible brand, which I don't think he would use that

16:52 phraseology at all.

16:54 But there's obviously a need for churches like faith Bible that are expository preaching

16:59 that put a heavy focus on getting people in groups, a heavy focus on actually giving

17:04 kids not just entertainment, but, but biblical truths.

17:07 So how does the expansion of faith Bible look into the future?

17:12 Because I don't think we're going to be seeing Mark Hitchcock preaching from a satellite

17:15 dish anytime soon on a screen.

17:17 So what does that look like for our community, but for faith Bible overall?

17:21 Great question.

17:22 Um, and this is, this is what the elders have been working through now for years.

17:26 And there's no, there's no easy answer to the question because what we've done in the

17:31 past isn't really the thing that's going to work for the future.

17:35 We've just in the past just made more space, just made a little more space, made a little

17:38 more space and that's accommodated the growth well, we're now at a place where that's it.

17:43 There's no more 15 acre landlocked campus.

17:46 We empty out onto the same street parking, all that's kind of stuff.

17:49 Yeah, we could build a garage at $27,000 a spot, but we're not really interested in doing that.

17:53 So anyway, probably the two year, five year, 10 year approach is going to be in two years.

18:01 We'll do a little bit more expansion.

18:04 We've got a plan to do that, to accommodate a little bit more growth on our campus and

18:10 really, really almost even catch up with the growth that we've experienced and give us

18:14 a little bit more wiggle room.

18:16 And then in five years, probably plant something in the North Oklahoma city, Ed Madaria, not

18:22 won't be a campus where there's, it'll be an autonomous church, ultimately.

18:29 I'm not sure exactly how it'll start if it's some combination of a satellite feed or alive

18:37 teaching pastor, not exactly sure on what that's going to look like, but ultimately the end

18:42 goal will be, it'll be an autonomous church plant.

18:44 So two years expand, five years plant, 10 years multiply, so we want to see multiple

18:48 churches planted in the North Oklahoma city, Ed Madaria and even beyond.

18:52 So we probably won't have a brand approach necessarily.

18:57 Those churches, those plants might have a different name than faith Bible church, but

19:00 will definitely be networked.

19:01 Go ahead.

19:02 One thing to talk about is like, so my sister was going to one of those squishy churches

19:06 and her eyes were kind of open to that and she was like, man, I'm just getting a TED talk

19:09 and good music.

19:11 And so she was, I was starting to send her some, to Mark's messages, send her some of

19:17 those.

19:18 And so she started listening, she's like, I like this and they live in Bethany.

19:20 And so she was like, I want to have to drive all the way to Bethany from Bethany to go to

19:23 faith.

19:24 So check out Metropolitan, which I think is kind of like a subset of our church to a

19:28 point.

19:29 Yeah, our church grew out of Metropolitan and the current senior pastor with our former

19:34 student pastor, the guy that followed me in student ministries now, the pastor.

19:37 Okay.

19:38 Yeah.

19:39 So she's going there.

19:40 Loves it.

19:41 She's like, great church.

19:42 It goes, my kids come back and they're like, I've learned something.

19:43 I think it's pretty awesome.

19:45 It's important Ryan to model that because here's, here are the DMs and the emails I get, Kyle,

19:50 I live in, who's, what's, it'sville, Minnesota, and I want to go to a man-friendly church.

19:54 I want to go to an expository preaching church.

19:56 I want to do all those things.

19:57 Do you know of any churches in my area?

19:58 And I'm like, bro, I don't know if the church is in my area, like within 15 minutes of my

20:03 house that I would say, yes, I think you should go there, but I do like there will be hints.

20:08 Do you see people walking in with Bibles?

20:11 Do you see men with their wives?

20:13 Do you see men with their wives and there's a lot of children around?

20:17 Do you see the men or hear the men's voices when you're singing inside?

20:20 Are people opening up their Bibles during the sermon or do they have their phones out

20:26 and they're in between their Bible app and their fancy football lineup?

20:29 Like there are some hints that will kind of give you an idea as to whether or not this

20:33 is healthy, moving forward, but, but, but, oh, no, go ahead, please.

20:36 I was just saying I had it a little bit easier because we moved back here four years ago

20:40 and I was looking for churches and some metropolitan ones on there, like we weren't looking at

20:44 how far or anything before we decided on faith.

20:46 But like, I was able to go and look into those churches and that's what we have to do for

20:50 a friend sometimes.

20:51 We have to do that for our family.

20:52 Like what I love my sister to come to faith, of course, I'd love to see her family there,

20:54 but sometimes it's not feasible and we're growing.

20:57 So think about, you know, hey, let's find a place where you can go that's in your community

21:01 where you can build community with other people and still get expository preaching.

21:05 And again, right?

21:06 Like if we need to send the hurt out, man, you just let me know, like you pull me out

21:09 of the bullpen and I'll throw, I'll throw the heat up and in, but hey, I got to be honest

21:13 from the beginning.

21:14 I didn't act 17 here in a little bit, we're just going to go along on this first episode,

21:17 but I did all of this to basically trick you into coming here because I've got a bone to

21:23 pick with you.

21:24 Okay.

21:25 It's, it's an issue, but you've already talked about it, okay?

21:28 And these guys know, know my frustration.

21:31 Nobody knows what ABF stands for.

21:33 Nobody knows what an adult Bible fellowship is and every time I have to mention it and

21:38 say the words out of my face hole on my solo show, I'm angry.

21:42 I get legitimately angry that ginger energy starts coming out of the middle of my soul.

21:47 Nobody knows what it is, but we all know what it is when we call it what it actually is,

21:52 which is a Sunday school.

21:53 Okay.

21:54 I've tried to do it in my Sunday school.

21:55 We got about 50 people in my guys.

21:57 We can take over.

21:58 Okay.

21:59 We just have to decide as a group that we are taking over and we are starting in this room

22:03 and we are expanding out.

22:04 We're no longer calling it a B F is this like when the SBC try to go by the great mission

22:08 stop.

22:09 Stop it.

22:10 No, we're, we're not going there yet.

22:11 But, but, but we, we got to change this.

22:14 Okay.

22:15 Like it, this makes no sense.

22:16 If we're really going to grow, if we're actually going to be people that are about

22:18 the gospel, we can't confuse people.

22:20 Okay.

22:21 If you confuse, you lose.

22:22 All right.

22:23 So do you dedicate to this moment to no longer allowing anyone in our church to say that

22:27 stupid word or acronym, please do it.

22:30 I didn't paint you a traditionalist, Sunday school, I am about some things, but like,

22:35 we didn't have to get this created.

22:36 Sunday school and Christian metal.

22:37 Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's a t-shirt right there, Sunday school and Christian metal.

22:42 I would say there, there, you have freedom to call it whatever you want to call it.

22:47 If you want to go there, that's great.

22:49 I don't know the little trickle down from the top.

22:51 I don't like that answer at all.

22:52 But if you want to refer to it as Sunday school, man, I, I think you have that freedom.

22:56 Go for it.

22:57 I think Kyle's going to put together a petition.

22:58 That's your next step.

22:59 Like, no, I'm going to interrupt service at some point and just say like, we've got to

23:03 discuss this.

23:04 I, we're not really like a voting congregation or something like that, but I'm down for

23:07 doing a takeover, a violent one, if need be.

23:10 We do, we do new member orientation, oh, four or five times a year and are you even a member?

23:15 Shut your mouth.

23:16 Probably.

23:17 Like, let Jay talk.

23:18 Probably half the time in those workshops, I refer to it as Sunday school mistakenly and

23:23 have to correct myself.

23:24 So there's.

23:25 Yes.

23:26 What, what is it?

23:27 There's synonyms.

23:28 There's synonyms.

23:29 So you don't have the freedom.

23:30 Um, well, I just have to be loyal to whoever it was who changed the name.

23:33 It wasn't me actually.

23:34 It happened during that four year span.

23:36 So you were gone.

23:37 I need to see what happens when you leave.

23:39 Yeah.

23:40 So who name names I need to know.

23:43 Are they still at the church?

23:44 I don't believe so.

23:45 I don't believe so.

23:46 This isn't even, this is the greatest news possible.

23:49 That person is gone.

23:50 They won't even be offended.

23:51 We don't care about their feelings anyway.

23:53 Come on.

23:54 It's Sunday school from, from this point forward.

23:56 Go for it.

23:57 Let's do it.

23:58 Come on.

23:59 Yeah.

24:00 Yeah.

24:01 Okay.

24:02 We've got like three and a half more hours for me to commit you, but at some point here

24:04 we are about 20 minutes in, 25 minutes in, we do got to get into the Bible guys, we're

24:07 getting into act 17.

24:08 And here's the really, really cool thing about act 17.

24:11 Um, you and I had discussed you coming on the forging table months ago, cause we have

24:17 to kind of plan this out, you know, months in advance to make sure guys can, can do it

24:21 because it's a, it's a large commitment because we record four of these at a time.

24:24 It's a big chunk of time for a lot of guys.

24:26 And then after you agreed to do this date, you actually, so you will guess preach, have

24:32 a dozen times in a year for Mark Hitchcock or something like that.

24:34 Is that fair to say?

24:35 Eight to 10.

24:36 Okay.

24:37 Eight to 10 times or something like that.

24:38 And you proceeded to melt my face by doing a sermon about act 17.

24:44 And I came up to you right after service.

24:45 I was like, Hey man, you crushed it and you tried to give me the, Oh yeah.

24:48 Thanks a lot.

24:49 I was like, no pause.

24:50 You freaking crushed it.

24:51 It was too.

24:52 Yeah.

24:53 Well, but like the first, it was the first one that I saw where you were going over this

24:55 first part of act 17.

24:57 That's right.

24:58 And it was just absolutely outstanding because I, I, I can't, well, I think I'd make

25:02 it to you.

25:03 I told you this, but I've heard the story of the prodigal son so many times throughout

25:06 my life and the entire time I'm like, man, that little guy should have died there with

25:10 the pigs.

25:11 I hate that little kid.

25:12 Like I was always on the side of the older brother.

25:13 And then you did a sermon year and a half, maybe two years ago where you're like, no,

25:16 there are two lost people in this story.

25:17 And I was like, I'm so dumb.

25:20 The older brothers dumb too.

25:21 And it was just like, I, you know, it just, I needed the way that you said it to where

25:25 it kind of landed with me.

25:27 Same thing happened for act 17.

25:28 So we're going to, we're going to read parts of this and get into it, but we'll kind of

25:32 follow a little bit of your outline.

25:34 If you can kind of remember where that was, especially as we get into this first part

25:37 of act 17.

25:38 So Ryan, man, I knew it.

25:40 I know you were over there like, please don't make me read, please don't make me read.

25:43 I'm going to read these names.

25:44 Well, that's the thing I picked the hardest section is like that's the one that Ryan has

25:47 to read.

25:48 Okay.

25:49 Good.

25:50 All right.

25:51 Hopefully.

25:52 Here we are.

25:53 Act 17.

25:54 You're just going to read the first nine versus nine first nine.

25:55 Yeah, you'll be okay.

25:56 Now when they had passed through amphipolis, amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica

26:03 where there was a synagogue of Jews.

26:05 And Paul went in was as was his custom and the three and on three Sabbath days, he reasoned

26:11 with them from the scriptures explaining and providing that it was necessary for Christ

26:17 to suffer and to rise from the dead and and saying, this Jesus whom I proclaim to you

26:23 is the Christ.

26:24 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul in Silas as did a great many of devout

26:29 Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

26:33 But the Jews were jealous and taking some wicked men of rabble.

26:38 They formed a mob sent in the city in an uproar, set the city in an uproar and attacked

26:42 the houses of the house of Jason seeking to bring them out to the crowd.

26:46 And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brothers before the

26:51 city authorities shouting, these men who have turned the world upside down have come here

26:56 also.

26:57 And Jason has received them and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying

27:02 that there is another king, Jesus and the people in the city authorities were disturbed

27:07 when they heard these things.

27:09 And when they had taken money as security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.

27:14 Thank you, Ryan.

27:15 So as we can dig into this first section, I still have my notes from whenever I was hearing

27:19 you do this sermon, you can talk about this first chunk however you want.

27:23 But it was the reason part that I think really gets a lot of Christians kind of like, we

27:30 don't really want to talk about reason, if people are like, hey, if we get anything

27:33 outside of the Bible or outside of faith or we're getting into the world of reason, you

27:37 know, it's these Christians that are maybe they're not encouraged by Christian apologetics.

27:41 They're more so like, Hey, William Lane Craig is a using the Bible for every single argument.

27:45 So he's using a lot of reason.

27:46 He's appealing to reason.

27:48 And that's just not good.

27:49 I'm not going to do that.

27:50 So I don't like Greg Coca-Lizer.

27:51 I don't like Robbie Zechariah's either because they appeal to reason.

27:53 But that was one of the first main points you made about this section is Paul's approach

27:57 contained a lot of different things, but reason was certainly one of them.

28:01 Yeah, reasoning really, and I think as it applies here, because we have several different

28:05 categories, reasoning explaining given giving evidence might be the more apologetic sort

28:11 of category in what he was doing in the synagogue there on the Sabbath days.

28:16 But reasoning is just dialogue.

28:18 So it's just asking questions, asking good questions, hearing answers.

28:23 When you reason with somebody, you're actually kind of gauging where they're at.

28:27 What do you know, where are your, where are your loyalties?

28:32 And so he's reasoning with them in a way to figure out, okay, how's, how do I need to

28:36 approach these other things?

28:38 How do I need to approach explaining and giving evidence?

28:41 Like, where are the gospel sensitivities in their, in their understanding, in their reason,

28:46 in their knowledge, just making cogent arguments, not coercing, not entertaining, just, just

28:52 reasoning, just asking good questions and hearing their answers.

28:55 Well, and Brown, you actually do a really good job of that.

28:56 I remember years ago, what was the name of that program used to take people through from

29:00 mentorship and discipleship?

29:02 This was like a long time ago, you know, like through the knabs, is that what you meant?

29:05 I think so navigators.

29:06 Was that it?

29:07 Yeah.

29:08 Yeah.

29:09 So that's seemingly one of the parts of that is where you're, you're kind of reasoning

29:11 because you don't know what, what to discuss with somebody.

29:14 If you don't know their starting point, if you don't know, kind of maybe their intellectual

29:17 ability or their experience with certain pieces of content, but I feel like you do a really

29:21 good job of kind of reasoning through that and questioning with people.

29:24 Well, and that's what I like about like Greg Cocle and tactics is, you know, it's not,

29:28 the believer is not necessarily on the defensive, like right off the gate.

29:32 I mean, it doesn't have to be that way just because they make a statement and you have

29:35 them qualify what, what they actually mean by that.

29:37 And that's the question he asks, ask back is what do you mean by that or work?

29:41 How did you come to believe that, you know, and get more information?

29:44 Because sometimes somebody says, I believe in God, but they don't believe in the God

29:47 that you believe in.

29:48 And so you can't necessarily start with, okay, we believe in God.

29:50 Great.

29:51 Well, here, let me lay out the gospel for you because that doesn't necessarily, it's not

29:54 going to necessarily land.

29:55 That makes sense.

29:56 But yeah, asking questions is important in, in yes, in discipleship, there are.

29:59 It's like, you know, from a, just a, almost a, I'm sitting maybe across from another believer.

30:05 So a little bit different because I'm not necessarily having to be apologetic, but it's

30:08 like, I want to understand kind of what your input of the word is and like where you're

30:12 at, because then that gives me a good starting point.

30:14 So how are you hearing, reading, studying, memorizing, meditating and applying the word?

30:19 And then we can kind of, I build something kind of around that to help you in a mentorship

30:24 type of way.

30:25 Well, even somebody who says, I don't believe in God.

30:27 Well, tell me about this God you don't believe in because I probably don't believe in him

30:30 either.

30:31 Yeah.

30:32 You know, and, and just, yeah, reasoning with, okay, that's not the God of the Bible.

30:34 So let's talk about the God of the Bible.

30:35 You might actually, you might actually believe in the God of the Bible.

30:38 But that's the thing that I look at is he always started in the synagogues.

30:41 So he always started with, with Jews.

30:44 And so he already had like a standpoint where he can kind of discuss, you know, the prophets.

30:49 And so, I mean, at this time, are they like discussing like what we would consider Isaiah

30:53 53 to reason with them on what they're, on, on why they don't believe that Jesus is the

30:59 Christ and, and, and what he's fulfilled.

31:02 And so I think it's kind of interesting to look at like, he's sitting here reasoning

31:06 with the Jews in the synagogue and there's Greeks that are listening to this and they're

31:10 like, Oh, yeah, I get this.

31:12 When I think as well, it's important for us to understand that words have meaning.

31:16 And you're right.

31:17 If you, if you launch into your 10 point presentation or, or if you launch into, you know, what

31:22 you assume the other person believes you're probably going to be missing out on a lot

31:25 of detail, I'd say this all the time, like back from my sales background, you don't get

31:28 paid on the information you give out, you get paid on the information you bring in.

31:31 You got to ask questions.

31:32 You got to ask a whole bunch of questions because people will tell you exactly what it'll

31:35 take to sell them, whether you're selling insurance or cars or, you know, data protection

31:39 or any of that type of stuff, like they will tell you what it's going to take to sell them.

31:43 But you know, the other day I was asked on an interview, like, you know, what if somebody

31:46 were to challenge you about toxic masculinity and how there's toxic masculinity in the culture?

31:50 And I'm like, well, the first thing I would do is ask them two questions that are connected.

31:53 What do you mean by toxic?

31:54 And what do you mean by masculinity, which is followed up by a third question, which

31:57 is when you jam those two words together, what does that mean?

32:00 Because if I get a sense of where you're coming from, I'm going to get a lot of hints

32:03 about your worldview, about your voting record, about your upbringing, about, you know, your

32:08 theological persuasion, I'm going to get a lot of hints.

32:11 But I'm not going to just immediately start attacking the question as stupid or misplaced

32:15 or vapid.

32:16 I have to understand where the question is coming from.

32:18 And I feel like that that that's what we see Paul doing here.

32:21 But also from your sermon, I thought it was important about like, okay, what makes preaching

32:26 powerful?

32:27 Okay.

32:28 And so what some people probably think and we've already kind of talked about TED talky

32:32 churches is, you know, some people think what makes preaching powerful is a punchy topic,

32:37 a title or a punchy title, or, you know, I'm a fan and I teach people primacy and recency.

32:43 People remember the first thing they hear and the last thing they hear in the middle is

32:46 still important, but you got to be, you got to make sure you punch them in the mouth at

32:49 the beginning and at the end, because that's what they're going to hang on to.

32:52 But the thing is, is whenever you're preaching the gospel, you don't have to get too terribly

32:57 creative.

32:58 That doesn't mean don't be creative.

32:59 That doesn't mean, Hey, Christian, here's your excuse to be completely lame and boring.

33:03 But it's like the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that's what makes the preaching

33:08 powerful.

33:09 And you made that point here, whenever you were talking about it in your sermon.

33:12 Yeah.

33:13 Romans one, 16, for it's the gospel, it's the power of God unto salvation for all who believe.

33:18 So any church that wants to be connected to God's power is going to be explicitly preaching

33:23 the gospel.

33:25 My ideas, my clever Ted talks or creative sermon concepts, they're not going to have

33:33 much power behind them.

33:35 The gospel.

33:36 Okay.

33:37 Now you're tapped into God's power.

33:38 Now you're tapped into something that's going to get at people's hearts and change

33:40 their lives.

33:41 One quote that you said, and I wrote it down even after the fact, and this is a second

33:45 Bible.

33:46 I was taking my notes on the gospel causes conversion, but also division.

33:50 And that's one thing like, like we don't think about sometimes, like people are taking

33:54 in the gospel and they're converting to Christianity, but some people are hearing and be like,

33:58 I don't like that.

33:59 I don't like the way that sounds.

34:01 And so, and then it causes division, like, so my brother right now, he's a, he's an atheist.

34:04 He'll say he's an atheist and he's been going to church with us.

34:07 And he has a lot of questions.

34:08 So I've been trying to reason with him and talk with him.

34:10 He's very much kind of likes to see the evidence.

34:13 So I gave him the book case for Christ by Lee Shroble.

34:16 I was like, Hey, just read this.

34:17 You know, I think it's going to be more on your level.

34:20 And then come back and just bring me the questions and let's reason.

34:23 Because the thing is, is like, I want to see that conversion in him.

34:26 I don't want to see the vision in him, you know, I don't want him to be against us because

34:29 of what we believe and, and, and how we believe, but also want him to be able to have his eyes

34:34 open.

34:35 And I know it's not going to be me.

34:36 It's going to be the Holy Spirit.

34:37 But you got to start somewhere.

34:39 Well, part of it is there has to be some level of preparation.

34:42 And so people ask me, like, Hey, before you go give a speech to a group or, or do something

34:46 like that, like, do you just kind of let go and let God, I'm like, why in the world would

34:50 I do that?

34:51 In the world would I disrespect the, the people that have invited me and the people that are

34:55 giving me their attention by just going in there and winging it.

34:57 Now I have a really good idea of where I'm going to be going, but I don't know what it's

35:01 going to be like until I get in there.

35:02 And I always go back to when I preached at Lewisburg prison, um, and you're in this room

35:06 with people that are never going to be able to leave that place, right?

35:10 People that will die right there.

35:12 And what is my message?

35:13 In that time, it's like, I have an idea of where I'm going to go, the Holy Spirit.

35:16 Let's get after it.

35:17 Right.

35:18 I'm going to ask the guys in one day that give their lives over to Christ.

35:21 And it's not because it wasn't because of my preparation, right?

35:25 It wasn't because of that, because I could have prepared the best, you know, sermon possible,

35:30 made sure that nobody had any loose ends or nope.

35:33 There was no confusing point that I made, but it's the power of the Holy Spirit moving

35:36 in that room that makes the difference.

35:38 And so part of it is like, I have to do my part and then get out of the way whenever

35:42 it's appropriate for me to get out of the way.

35:43 But Jay, the point you were making there, like from what I remember from the sermon is

35:47 like so many people leave out the proclamation because they're afraid of the conflict that

35:52 it could cause.

35:53 And I'm like, okay, that's great.

35:55 You need to go drive for UPS.

35:56 You need to go ask people, would you like fries with that?

35:58 You don't need to be a pastor because that's your job, if that's what you're going to do.

36:02 Yeah.

36:03 The opposition will come.

36:04 And I think one of the really interesting critiques about gospel preaching ministries

36:09 or gospel centered ministries or ministries that are committed to exposition and just

36:13 really delivering God's word to people.

36:16 One of the critiques is it seems so arrogant to stand up there and say, thus say, the Lord.

36:23 Are you speaking for the Lord, like that kind of thing?

36:25 Well, if I'm preaching the Bible, yeah, absolutely, I am.

36:29 Yeah.

36:30 Doesn't it seem a lot more arrogant to stand up and give you my five tips and strategies

36:34 on life as if that's authoritative?

36:38 No, that that's rooted in your bright ideas.

36:41 Yeah.

36:42 I don't have any bright ideas.

36:43 All I've got is God's word and I'm going to do my best to present to you what's in the

36:48 text because that's what's going to change your life.

36:50 Yeah.

36:51 And I see that this whole idea of division, like when you're reading that quote from earlier,

36:56 that's literally over and over and over through these chapters that we're going to be going

36:59 through is when you present the gospel, there are some people that say, yes, and then there's

37:03 a lot of people that say, no, and then, you know, what I kept coming back to is then how

37:09 do you measure success of a ministry if it's like that?

37:14 And, you know, my personal answer is like, well, just faithfulness to doing what you're

37:17 called to do is success, if that makes sense.

37:21 And then God will do the rest.

37:23 And then the comments that Paul has made and I think in chapters down the road about like

37:29 he's just trying to play it.

37:30 Yeah.

37:31 And sometimes people do the watering and then but God is always going to do the harvest.

37:34 That's the coco thing.

37:35 Right.

37:36 I'm just trying to put a rock in your shoes.

37:37 Just sowing.

37:38 You might, you might plant the seed and someone's going to water it later.

37:40 I use this example all the time.

37:42 Like I felt called, you know, 10 plus years ago, I was getting some tattoo work done and

37:45 the tattoo world can be very, very dark and like very, very satanic, anti-Christian, like,

37:50 you know, it can be kind of rough.

37:52 And I felt like I needed to get my tattoo artist a Bible with his name on it, right?

37:56 And that was the only message I got.

37:57 And I was like, nah, that's not what you're wanting me to do.

38:00 But I was like, okay, fine.

38:01 I'll do it.

38:02 And when I gave it to him, there wasn't like this dramatic conversion moment.

38:05 He was like, eh, and he like takes it, he goes, thanks, and then kind of tosses it to

38:08 the side.

38:10 I planted the seed.

38:11 Now to my knowledge, that guy's not a Christian or anything like that.

38:13 But I would like to say that at some point down the road, someone is going to take that

38:18 seed that I planted and perhaps many other seeds that others have planted and water that

38:22 and like care and nurture that moment.

38:25 But I just needed to be obedient to what I felt like I was called, what I felt like

38:30 God was telling me to do in that moment for this guy.

38:33 Now go ahead. I'm sorry, I think it also shows us that we need to be bold in how we portray

38:38 the gospel or teach the gospel.

38:40 Like we can't, we can't have this half-gospels, you know, we can't give you a little bit of

38:44 the gospel and then not give you the rest.

38:46 And so I think when we look at this and we look at what he went through, he was bold

38:50 with the gospel, he spoke it, he taught it, and these men were up in arms about it.

38:55 And so that's one thing.

38:56 It's like, don't be afraid to be bold.

38:58 Like, yeah, you're going to get Aerostro in your way, but just stay faithful.

39:02 Yeah, like an example that would be like, hey, you know, you stand up in front of the entire

39:05 church.

39:06 And as opposed to saying, "ABF, you just start saying Sunday school."

39:08 Like just be bold, just embrace it, just be a part of it.

39:11 Well, we do need to keep back 17 going, but I do want to mention before we go any further,

39:15 that guys, we are partnered with Crossway, we love that publishing house.

39:18 They make literally the greatest journals in the world, so you can get the entire Bible

39:22 right.

39:23 And I have these journals, so they sit flat because they're spiral bound.

39:26 You can do your notes on the right and then you've got all the Scripture there on the left.

39:29 It's absolutely incredible.

39:30 But also, if you want to start your own forging table, they've got a five book forging table

39:34 starter set for you guys.

39:35 So this includes an amazing study Bible.

39:38 One of these journals, it's bounded a little bit differently and a few other books that

39:41 will be tremendously to your benefit.

39:43 And if you go and use the instructions in our show notes, you can get that entire set

39:46 of five books for 50% off.

39:48 And then also, we are some big supporters here of the Logos Bible software.

39:52 So guys, if you want to take your Bible study to the next level, whether you are leading

39:55 a Bible study or just doing it for yourself, there's literally nothing better that I know

39:59 of an existence than the Logos Bible software.

40:02 There are commentaries on there.

40:03 You can do deep word studies.

40:05 You can do all kinds of different things on there, but don't pay full price for that.

40:09 Get that out of discount.

40:10 Make sure you take care of that.

40:12 But Jay, the moment has come, the first time you're going to be reading out loud here on

40:15 Undaunted Life of Man's podcast at the forging table.

40:18 So you are going to be handling 10 through 15 now, Ryan didn't have the greatest first

40:22 performance there.

40:23 So it's not going to take a whole lot for you to be at the top of the podium.

40:26 I'm not going to read off my eye.

40:27 Dude, what did you say as opposed to Thessalonica?

40:29 You said, I think that's a Nokia or something like that.

40:32 I sounded like a phone that I had when I was in junior high trying to read from my iPad

40:36 and do that.

40:37 Don't blame modern technology.

40:38 Okay.

40:39 Jay, you have 10 through 15.

40:40 Trust me.

40:41 I'm like Matt Chandler.

40:42 Let's go.

40:43 All right.

40:44 Let's roll.

40:45 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea.

40:47 And when they had arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.

40:51 Now these were more noble minded than those in Thessalonica, where they received the

40:55 word with great eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see whether these things

41:00 were so.

41:01 Therefore many of them believed along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

41:06 But when the Jews of Thessalonica found out that the Word of God had been proclaimed

41:10 by Paul in Berea also, they came there as well, agitating and stirring up the crowds.

41:16 Then immediately the brethren sent Paul out to go as far as the sea and Silas and Timothy

41:22 remained there.

41:23 Now those who escorted Paul brought him as far as Athens and receiving a command for

41:27 Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible.

41:31 They left.

41:32 You're reading from the NASB.

41:33 NASB.

41:34 Okay.

41:35 This is the ESV table.

41:36 Okay.

41:37 So you need to get with the program a little bit.

41:38 I will, I will say the only two that I suggest people, ESV and NASB.

41:41 So the funniest thing about this section is that they took their, they took their ride

41:45 on the road.

41:46 And so it's like normally rides kind of like burn out in the city that they are, but these

41:50 guys are like, no, we're going on tour.

41:52 But Jay, whenever you were talking about this, this section here, and so I'm not trying

41:56 to steal your thunder here.

41:57 I'm just trying to tee you up.

41:58 The thing that was really helpful for me as I was studying through this is you were talking

42:02 about the Bereans, which colloquially, like this is how stop puts it, that people who

42:07 study the scripture with impartiality and care.

42:10 Okay.

42:11 So they're just basically looking at the Bible.

42:12 What does it say?

42:13 Like let's just see what it says.

42:15 And then let's, let's take some care in our understanding and our application as well.

42:19 So you said that this, the Bereans that they were, they were eager, they examined to find

42:23 the truth, and they were consistent self feeders.

42:26 And so those three things, I think are really important.

42:27 They were eager.

42:29 That's something I feel like all of us should have.

42:30 They examined to find truth, not to find something that, you know, fits their, their priors.

42:34 And then also they were consistent self feeders.

42:37 And I feel like that last point is something that a lot of us really miss because we're

42:40 like, I'm not really getting anything out of church.

42:42 It's like, we're it.

42:43 Well, perhaps that's not the point of the Echlecia model.

42:46 That's the point is what can you give to that community?

42:49 But talk about eagerness, examining to find truth and being a consistent self feeder.

42:53 Yeah.

42:54 So I think a steady diet of God's word is what's going to grow you over time.

42:58 I think maybe a quote I even shared in that sermon, I know I share it in other places is

43:03 that you don't remember 99% of the meals you've eaten, but they've kept you alive.

43:08 And you don't remember 99% of the sermons you hear, but they keep you going.

43:12 They serve as food, their nourishment, and I think a steady diet of studying the word

43:18 in the church context is really, really helpful in giving you the tools to study it by yourself.

43:25 But it's not a full replacement for studying it by yourself.

43:28 And that's what we see in these burians.

43:29 They go daily to the scriptures.

43:32 They're not just relying on Paul's delivery each and every Sunday.

43:35 They're going daily to the scriptures and studying it themselves.

43:39 And so that idea of being a self feeder, I think I even mentioned a large mega church

43:45 15 or 20 years ago who did a deep dive into the discipleship of their church body and

43:51 realized that their goal to make disciples, they were failing at it.

43:56 Their mission was to make disciples and they weren't doing it.

43:59 The people were coming.

44:00 They were hearing the really polished preacher get up every week and deliver a great sermon,

44:04 but they weren't reading the Bible themselves.

44:06 And so they identified themselves as failing at their mission because the people that they

44:11 were serving weren't reading the Bible themselves.

44:14 And that's what we see here, an eagerness to receive it and examine it daily.

44:18 When I think for me, like that was the punch in the gut that I think we talked about off

44:22 air, which was in 2022, I read 54 books, I believe for, for, you know, interviews and

44:28 stuff like that here for the podcast.

44:30 And I didn't read that many chapters of the Bible and I was like, hold up.

44:33 Wait a minute.

44:34 Like this is like a big problem.

44:35 And one of my life called me out on that because no one knew what I was reading, right?

44:38 And so I just came came before you guys and I was like, this is bad.

44:41 This was before the forging table was even an idea.

44:43 And then we all started kind of working together to figure out like, how, you know, how could

44:46 a movie maybe turn this and all that?

44:48 And it was because I wasn't self feeding at all.

44:51 Now, I thought I was checking the boxes because I was a consistent attender of church.

44:55 I consistently paid attention in church.

44:58 I was listening to other sermons and supplementing throughout the week and things like that,

45:01 but it was like Sunday school.

45:03 Yeah.

45:04 And Sunday school, which is exactly what we're going to be calling it from now on, no matter

45:08 what.

45:09 But it was like, those are the things like, but I was allowing other people basically

45:12 to throw scripture at me.

45:14 And every now and then some of it would, if it was sticky enough, it would stick on me

45:17 for a day or two or a week or two, but I was never ever self feeding.

45:21 I was like, whoa, like this is a problem, especially running the platform that I do.

45:25 Yeah.

45:26 When I read this, I think about, and I just told my kids this last night as like, look,

45:30 it's because someone says it doesn't mean it's true, even if it's just the peel of authority.

45:34 Like I don't care if your pastor says it or somebody that's some scientist says something,

45:38 you know, it doesn't necessarily mean it may be true, but it's your job to go back and fact

45:45 check that basically.

45:46 And so it's all idea of like studying the Bible, you know, one of the questions I think we

45:49 should, should ask and maybe answer is like, because studying sounds very academic.

45:55 Like I did that when I was in high school and college and I'm done with that, right?

45:59 Um, but there, I do think there's a difference between just reading the Bible, you know,

46:04 for pleasure and then, and then, uh, and then studying.

46:07 For sure.

46:08 Understanding.

46:09 Yeah.

46:10 Right.

46:11 And one real simple and not saying this is the way to do it, but one, one guy that I really

46:13 appreciate and maybe I've said this on here before was my friend Matt and I remember talking

46:17 to him about, I was like, how did you kind of get to where you are now, um, in your walk?

46:22 And he said, well, when, when I started reading the Bible, I realized there were a lot of

46:26 things that didn't understand.

46:27 So I had a journal here, it kind of like what you guys got here, but it's blank on both

46:30 sides.

46:31 And then on the left side, he would write down questions that he had and he would just keep

46:34 going.

46:36 But then he would go back and, and, and study those, he would go, I need to find the answer

46:40 to that.

46:41 And I need the Holy Spirit to guide me in finding the answer to that.

46:44 He said, Eric, I've started doing that about six, seven years ago.

46:47 He says, I've got like three or four full big, thick journals of questions that I have

46:52 and every single answer, um, to those questions, it's like, it's full of, of questions with

46:58 answers.

46:59 He said, God has been very faithful.

47:00 He's like, I've just done my part to continue to search him out.

47:04 So, so I think to me, like some part that's part of studying is asking questions and then

47:09 not just letting them hang there, but seek honestly seeking the answers, laying the Holy

47:13 Spirit guide.

47:14 So I think it's a good thing of growth.

47:16 I mean, that's how I got into the Bible.

47:18 I was at a church and it was just, I kind of Ted talky and some of the things that were

47:21 coming across.

47:22 I'm like, I don't know if that means exactly what he thinks it means or I don't understand

47:26 what he's saying.

47:27 Like, that's not how I would have thought of that verse.

47:30 And so I just started reading.

47:32 And that one thing I learned was like, I'd go and read the verse, but then I'd go and

47:34 read the whole chapter.

47:36 And then you read the whole chapter and you're like, okay, I, I kind of see where this is

47:39 going for, but now I want to know what the context is.

47:42 And then you're able to go and look into the context and what's going on there.

47:44 And then you're able just to be able to have better discernment on what you're listening

47:48 to and what's coming around.

47:49 And that's one thing that was kind of a growth for us, my wife and I is that we developed

47:54 discernment.

47:55 We're like, okay, you know, this is a Ted talk sprinkled with verses, but these verses,

47:58 two of these verses don't even come into the context of what this whole conversation's

48:02 about.

48:03 And so that kind of helped us grow in our spiritual growth or grow in our spiritual journey and

48:08 then move to, you know, move to more of an expository church and something that we can

48:13 actually grow out of.

48:15 And so it's all starts with the Bible and all starts with like, you just pick it up,

48:19 read it.

48:20 If you don't understand it, read it.

48:21 And if you have questions, ask your pastor, go talk to them.

48:24 Yeah.

48:25 And we're in our Sunday school class, we're doing, we're doing, we're doing, right?

48:28 Another mention of Sunday school, we're doing a legacy, how to leave your legacy.

48:32 And one of the things I really am trying to encourage my, my group to do is think about

48:36 the stories, think about your family heritage, what, what stories do you have that there's

48:39 a great of all things ket, Ted talk, a, just real short of a lady wearing pink.

48:45 Um, high heels and she's, as she stood up there, she said, I'm wearing these pink eye

48:49 heels today.

48:50 They don't even go with my outfit.

48:51 You don't know what these mean, but they mean a lot to me.

48:54 And then she told the story of how it was the last gift she was given to her that was given

48:58 to her by her mother before she died of cancer.

49:01 And so she told the whole story.

49:02 Then she behind her had a picture of her dad and a, and a random person wearing extravagant

49:08 clothes in front of a really cool, like car blah, blah, blah.

49:11 She goes, this is a great picture.

49:13 I don't know the story.

49:14 I don't know anything about this other than it's a picture.

49:17 He said, and I said, you know, it's important for us to share our family heritage on all

49:23 aspects all the way down to like, this is how it became a believer.

49:26 But if we kind of expand that out, we are all also then as believers, a part of the family

49:30 of God and there's a history there and God wants to reveal that and has revealed that

49:35 through the word.

49:36 And so why would we not want to know where we came from, you know, and ultimately where

49:41 we're going, right?

49:42 So I think that's part of the issue because how do you approach things that you know are

49:47 important?

49:48 Okay.

49:49 So you got a new baby and you are installing the car seat, okay?

49:53 That is very important.

49:54 You are going to become an expert on everything that's in that little manual that tells you

49:58 how to put that in there safely because you don't want to get in an accident and then

50:01 think to yourself, oh, I rushed the car seat part, but part of it is because I don't think

50:06 we actually believe that this is the word of God.

50:08 I don't think we actually believe it because if we thought that God gave us this, right?

50:14 And if we looked at this, how people may be in Iran are looking at this right now, people

50:18 that are coming to faith through their dreams and things like that, that can't get their

50:21 hands on a Bible, much less a waterproof one.

50:24 That's pretty dope.

50:25 But like, like, I don't think we actually believe this is a word of God because if we

50:28 thought that these were the actual words and commands of God, I think we might take it

50:31 a little bit more seriously.

50:32 We might actually study, we might not read 50 plus books in a year that have Bible verses

50:37 in some of them and not actually spend time in this.

50:40 And so I think part of it's just a little bit of a gut check for us.

50:43 The reason it isn't is because people read and there's things they don't like in it.

50:46 Yeah.

50:47 That certainly happens.

50:48 And that's the problem.

50:49 The problem is, well, there's certain things in there I don't understand and I don't like

50:52 and it doesn't fit my, my, my mode of personality.

50:55 They seem not a step with culture.

50:56 Yeah.

50:57 And add a step with culture.

50:58 And it's just like, you know, they don't, they won't, don't look at it as the word of

51:01 God because if they actually have to look at it as the word of God, they have to truly

51:05 believe it.

51:06 But do they like the fact that they were bought at a price and that it took Jesus' blood

51:11 and sacrifice resurrection?

51:12 Yeah.

51:13 I'll take some of that.

51:14 You can keep all that other stuff.

51:15 You can keep the other stuff though.

51:16 You know, it's like, I don't know.

51:17 It's like when you're talking about churches and like, I went to a church that believed

51:22 in the Nicene Creed and believed in all these things.

51:25 They believe that Jesus rose from the dead and, and the resurrection and the birth, the

51:29 virgin birth.

51:30 And, but that's like the litmus test now for churches.

51:33 Like you can take as long as everybody believes that, but all this other stuff is up in the

51:38 air.

51:39 It doesn't matter what, what God said about it in the Bible, I, I read that differently.

51:42 And so that's, that's an up in the air point, but that's where we have to like understand,

51:46 like we've got to understand that this is a word of God.

51:48 We got it.

51:49 We got to look at it and we got to read it in the way that it's supposed to be read.

51:52 And we can't just go and just start putting our personalities into it.

51:55 And I think that's what we're coming into.

51:57 I know this is Kyle's job, but are you talking about Andy Stanley?

52:00 Oh.

52:01 Oh, let's go.

52:04 And Rick Warren.

52:05 Let's go.

52:06 Okay.

52:07 Yeah.

52:08 Yeah.

52:09 Preach.

52:10 Let's go.

52:11 Yeah.

52:12 No, no, no.

52:13 I think, I think you're identified.

52:14 There's this, no one would minimize one Iota at this table or anywhere else, the importance

52:16 of the resurrection.

52:17 Yeah.

52:18 But what you're talking about is a church leader, a place, a church, a denomination who, who

52:25 reduces everything that all we need to believe is the resurrection.

52:28 Yeah.

52:29 And everything else is up in the air.

52:30 Yeah.

52:31 I wouldn't even minimize that.

52:32 I mean, our faith rises and falls with the resurrection of Jesus, but where do we have

52:38 record of that?

52:39 Right.

52:40 That's true.

52:41 Why are we even looking to the resurrection for its power if we unhitch it from anything

52:45 that tells us why we should be looking for it?

52:47 And that's the funny thing about it is it just like whenever like a pastor is called

52:51 out, they're always like, how dare you call out that pastor?

52:54 Like who are you?

52:55 You know, and it's like, oh, you're not being charitable to your brother and stuff.

52:58 And it's like, they use this as an excuse.

53:00 Well, I believe in the resurrection.

53:02 So what I believe outside of that, you know, I'm still your brother.

53:04 And it's just like, but you only take one part of the Bible and you don't want to take

53:09 the rest with it because you just don't like what it says.

53:11 I think in relation to just kind of circle back to the self-feeding idea and some really

53:16 good things that Eric said about study and the friend you had that those know who looks,

53:21 gosh, what a treasure trove that would be just to be able to look back on your spiritual

53:24 walk over years.

53:26 But like we often search for or are curious about like, where's the Holy Spirit at work

53:33 in my life?

53:34 Well, if you're in the Word daily, the Holy Spirit can show up there every day in your

53:41 life by illuminating the scriptures, giving you understanding, giving you places of application.

53:47 Like, that's the spirit's work in your life.

53:50 The reason you love God's word and get things out of it and can even understand it and find

53:57 ways to apply it because the spirits at work in that activity.

54:00 I think you're absolutely right.

54:01 And unfortunately, we got to kind of keep this moving because we haven't even gotten through

54:04 halfway through Acts 17.

54:06 But just to put a fine point on what you were just talking about, Jay, it's when people

54:09 talk about an acquired taste, right?

54:11 So when you first get into the Bible, it can seem absolutely just like you're literally

54:16 trying to drink from a fire hose, but it's like, as you get better at it, it becomes

54:20 more and more palatable to you.

54:22 And it's because you're used to it, it's because you're not wondering, oh crap, where's, you

54:26 know, first Thessalonians, like, ah, I got it's like, oh, I'll go through and try to

54:29 find it.

54:30 Like you get better at doing it the more that you do it.

54:32 So this next section here, we're not going to spend a lot of time here because we do need

54:35 to get to Mars Hill.

54:36 So Browning, if you will read 16 through 21, please.

54:39 Yeah.

54:40 Now, while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw

54:46 the city was full of idols.

54:48 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons and in the marketplace

54:53 every day with those who happened to be there.

54:56 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him.

55:00 And some said, what does this babbler wish to say?

55:04 Others said he seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities because he was preaching

55:08 Jesus and the resurrection.

55:11 And they took him and brought him to the areaopagus saying, may we know what this new teaching

55:16 is that you are presenting for you bring some strange things to our ears.

55:21 We wish to know therefore what these things mean.

55:23 Now, all of the Athenians and foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing

55:28 except telling or hearing something new.

55:31 So we do need to get to the areaopagus here in a second, but I just want to point a couple

55:35 of things out that I got from the stock commentary.

55:37 Again, the stock commentary for acts is absolutely incredible.

55:40 But Paul was deeply moved whenever he saw all the idols.

55:46 He was kind of filled with a certain righteous indignation here because it was almost the

55:52 words that that stock use was a divine jealousy.

55:54 There was a divine jealousy that he's walking through this area that sees all these idols,

55:58 but I did want to point something out real quick on Epicureanism and Stoicism.

56:02 So again, from the stock commentary, so Epicureans, they were called like the philosophers of

56:05 the garden.

56:06 And so humans should pursue pleasure.

56:09 There is no judgment, there is no afterlife.

56:11 The gods, little G gods, they don't meddle in the affairs of human beings.

56:15 And so it's an entire worldview that's kind of around escapism in terms of like let's

56:19 escape from life, hedonism would certainly be under Epicureanism and then Stoics, which

56:25 has gotten a lot of popularity here in modernity because of the work of Robert Green and Ryan

56:29 Holiday and some of those guys, you know, going back and I mean, we have meditations by Marcus

56:34 Aurelius on our book list at every modern Christian Manchin read list.

56:36 So it's not like you can't get value from it.

56:38 But this was very pantheistic.

56:40 These were called like the philosophers of the porch.

56:42 Everything was fate.

56:44 So they put heavy emphasis on duty, you know, living in harmony with nature and reason,

56:49 having some sort of endurance, but really the entire idea of Stoicism is kind of, if you

56:54 boil it all down, it's fatalism or it's like, this is just how things are going to go,

56:59 going to go, just do your duty, shut up, no feelings.

57:03 And so there are obviously massive gaps with Epicureanism and Stoicism and I know everyone

57:07 has something to say about this section, but I know you have even more to say about the

57:10 next section.

57:11 So I got to cut it off there.

57:12 We're going to get into, yes, shut up, Ryan.

57:14 That's how it goes.

57:15 That's how it goes with the same.

57:16 I know you got a lot to say, but guess what?

57:18 We got a timer.

57:19 Yeah.

57:20 Good for you.

57:21 Hey, that's actually pretty good handwriting.

57:22 I'm actually very impressed.

57:23 But Ryan, what you do get to do is you do get to read the rest of Acts 17.

57:26 And I just checked the words don't get hard till maybe the very, very end.

57:30 And so I have full faith and confidence that you're going to absolutely crush the next

57:34 12 verses of our lives.

57:35 So ready, set.

57:36 Go.

57:37 So Paul standing in the midst of the aeropagus.

57:41 Aeropagus.

57:42 Aeropagus.

57:43 Aeropagus said men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious, whereas

57:48 I passed along and observed the objects of your worship.

57:52 I found also an altar with the inscription to the unknown God.

57:57 What therefore you worship as unknown.

57:59 This I proclaim to you, the God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord

58:03 of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands

58:08 as though he needed anything since he himself gives to all mankind and breath and everything.

58:19 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having

58:24 determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place that they should seek

58:29 God and perhaps fill their way toward him and find him, yet he is actually not far from

58:35 each one of us, for in him we live and move and have our being.

58:40 And even some of your own poets have said, for we are indeed his offspring.

58:46 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold

58:50 or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

58:55 The times of ignorance, the times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people

59:02 everywhere to repent because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world and

59:08 righteousness by man whom he has appointed and of this he has given assurance to all

59:15 raising him from the dead.

59:17 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, but others said, we

59:22 will hear you again about this. So Paul went out from their midst, but some men joined

59:27 them, joined him and believed among whom also were Dionysius, the arrow, pay guy, a robogite,

59:36 a robogite. Thank you, pastor and a Roman named Demarius and others with them.

59:42 I think for the rest of our time here, if you get to a word you don't know, just turn

59:45 to Jay and Jay will kind of like fill that in because again, he is a pro at the show.

59:49 Let's say sorry, Joby. That's okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, we do have a thing here. If you mess

59:52 up, you have to say sorry, Joby, because Joby Martin does listen to all of these. And so

59:56 he is like the ghost fifth member here. And so if you ever mess up for any reason whatsoever,

1:00:00 like if you say a B F as opposed Sunday school, which would be a massive mess up, Joby has

1:00:04 a lot, lots of grace because I am his favorite and I mess up all the time. And it's not like

1:00:08 you bring it up all the time either. So just to make you mad. No, I don't get mad anymore.

1:00:14 That's part of my past. So we have the areaopagus. So this is the hill of Ares. Ares is the God

1:00:18 of war. So the Greek equivalent of Mars, Mars Hill, that's how we get to the idea of Mars

1:00:23 Hill. But in this city, there are tens of thousands of shrines. But then that's not enough.

1:00:29 They've got they've got shrines for the gods just in case, like they they missed one or

1:00:34 something like that. And so really, there's an interesting thing here and there's there's

1:00:38 really a lot of ways that we can go. But I've seen some critique, if you can call that

1:00:43 of Paul, that this segment and what he's describing here at the areaopagus or Mars Hill, that

1:00:49 it's not as clear a presentation of the gospel as some people would want. Now I've read different

1:00:54 arguments, both ways. Like, look, this isn't a transcript of everything he said at the

1:00:59 areaopagus. So perhaps there were things that were left out. Perhaps there are things that

1:01:03 were implied. Perhaps there were some things that were, you know, summarize or something

1:01:07 like that. But I do believe it is a fair question. Why no explicit gospel presentation

1:01:13 of Mars Hill, especially considering how important it was that he was doing this in Athens in

1:01:18 front of the Supreme Council of Athens. And so Jay, how about you kick us off? Because

1:01:22 there's a lot there's a lot here to discuss in this section. But you know, there are people

1:01:26 that are critical of Paul here, which, you know, hey, if you're going to be critical,

1:01:29 you better bring receipts. But go ahead. I mean, we don't have his transcript. The

1:01:33 sermon's not transcripted. It's summarized. And I think it also is summarized knowing

1:01:39 who the audience was. So he tells us who the audience was, the Epicureans, the Stoics,

1:01:43 the philosophers on on Mars Hill. It's this very academic place. We're men are just exchanging

1:01:51 ideas. I think of it as like, if modern universities functioned like universities, that would essentially

1:01:55 be what this is. It's an open air environment where you can come and reason and try to find

1:01:59 truth. Right. So but what does Paul do? He declares God as creator, self sufficient giver,

1:02:08 sovereign controller, revealer. And in the process of telling them that he's revealed

1:02:14 himself, he quotes their poets, epiminities, I think I don't know anything by epiminities

1:02:18 other than this phrase stated here. And then in doing that, he concludes. He's also your

1:02:26 judge, right? He's going to judge you. Oh, and he has the right to do that because he

1:02:33 was raised from the dead. Here's our resurrection point again. And then in this point of resurrection

1:02:39 is the point where they sneer. And this is an outflow of what's gone on in Thessalonica

1:02:46 and Emburia, because the reason the Thessalonica's got so upset with Paul primarily was because

1:02:52 of what he stated about the resurrection. These Greeks in Thessalonica, there was there's

1:02:59 basically a billboard in this in the city, basically an inscription that kind of helped

1:03:04 define the worldview of the place that said, after death, no reviving again, after the

1:03:09 grave, no meeting again. So this was this was one of their foundational commitments and

1:03:15 it goes back to their Greek dualism and the things that you described about the Epicureans

1:03:18 and such. So to say that there's a resurrection from the dead, like this is foundational to

1:03:24 how they think this is getting at the root flaw in their worldview. And so they sneer.

1:03:34 And so maybe maybe he did maybe he didn't get into the hypostatic union and Jesus being

1:03:43 fully God and fully man and the nature of the atonement and what exactly happened at

1:03:48 the cross and justification by faith alone and all these other great Reformation doctrines

1:03:52 that Ryan loves. But but he did speak to who God is that his son conquered the grave and

1:04:04 that they were going to be judged at the end of all things. That's a pretty good gospel

1:04:08 presentation.

1:04:09 Yeah. And I think it is too because like one of the things I looked at is like look back

1:04:13 at Romans when Paul's making his case for God for people who don't know who God is and

1:04:19 he uses the unknown God in this portion saying like you worship a God that you don't know.

1:04:24 Well here here here's who he is and he kind of points out like you're not you're not you're

1:04:30 not innocent because you know that this God exists. But then he also comes back and he

1:04:34 talks about kind of what God does but he also tells people to repent. You know. And so like

1:04:39 I think that's the biggest thing that you know we talk about you know half gospels or

1:04:43 not throwing throwing the the gospel out the way it should be and how we don't like it.

1:04:48 You're not hitting all five points of Calvinism. However you guys want to say I want to I want

1:04:51 to do however we would say it. You're going to put that on us. Yeah you guys you all throw

1:04:55 me under the bus all out of here. All I'm saying is talk about a God and talk about repentance

1:05:00 and talk about change. And I feel like that's what we're missing nowadays in some of the

1:05:04 churches and some of these things that are going on. You know we're talking about love

1:05:09 love love but we're not talking about or acceptance acceptance but we're not talking about change

1:05:14 we're not talking about repentance anymore. It's like all that wrath talked about in the

1:05:18 40s 50s and 60s has now come into this love love love. And so we're just getting partial

1:05:22 gospels nowadays for a pragmatic approach to bring people here. And I don't think that

1:05:27 Paul took a pragmatic approach in what he was doing here. Well it's so interesting. I feel

1:05:31 like there's two sides of that we get partial gospel and then we get gospel plus. So 999

1:05:37 a month you get gospel plus so it's parts of the gospel but then add a bunch of stuff

1:05:40 that's not gospel. So you could say you know what the Judaizers were doing and the influence

1:05:45 that they had on Peter. And then we saw Paul had to kind of straighten him out and he did

1:05:49 get straightened out by the time of the Jerusalem counsel. But it's like I think you're right

1:05:53 you can't just present. I say this all the time you can't just present Lamb of God but

1:05:57 you also can't just present Lion of Judah and you also can't present 6535. You can't really

1:06:01 do that. It's a hundred a hundred. Same thing with grace and truth. You don't come partially

1:06:05 grace and truth. You come fully grace and truth. And so when your message is only of grace and

1:06:09 you miss the truth part the truth part is going to get people angry. It's going to make them

1:06:13 offended and it's going to take away from the message of the gospel which you did not present

1:06:17 fully to begin with. But like Jai just said he pointed out the resurrection and he knew

1:06:22 that that was going to cause division and bring them up in arms. So he hit the point that he

1:06:29 needed to hit. And that's the thing I think we're missing nowadays is we're not hitting

1:06:33 the point that we need to hit based upon our cultural narrative. Yeah. And it looks like

1:06:37 he said some of them and joined him and believed that kind of just magic in that order is like

1:06:41 he hit that last thing about the resurrection of the dead. They sneered and he said I'll

1:06:45 be down front here if you want to come talk to me a little bit more about this. Some people

1:06:49 joined him down there and gave him even more in-depth presentation of the gospel and then

1:06:53 they believed and started following. So I agree. But again I think Jai you made this

1:06:58 point where it's like okay what people want to talk about what's not there but again going

1:07:02 over what is there. God is a creator to the universe. That's verse 24. God is a stainer

1:07:07 of life. That's 25. God is the ruler of all the nations. That's 26 or 28. God is the father

1:07:11 of human beings. That's 28 and 29. And he's also the judge of the judge of the world.

1:07:15 That's 30 and 31. And I do like that he quotes. I saw that he quoted a couple of guys. It

1:07:21 was Erastis and who'd you say? Epimedities. And so like he's quoting these people. And

1:07:25 so this is another example of when people are say no don't go outside of scripture. It's

1:07:30 just the gospel. No you you want to bring people in. This is a fantastic example of meeting

1:07:34 people where they are and using something that's in their Bailey wick to help them understand

1:07:39 the point that you're making. He's not quoting these people as if they are authoritative.

1:07:44 These these stoic philosophers are in these types of people. He's quoting it because he

1:07:47 gets these people and gets their language. And he's doing it in a way that is authentic

1:07:51 because because we've all done this there's something called the curse of knowledge which

1:07:53 means you know basically if somebody is talking to you and you're not understanding you're

1:07:57 going to be burning so many calories trying to catch up and eventually you're just going

1:08:00 to stop listening. But the same thing would be true is like let's say you're at a baseball

1:08:04 convention. This is you know teaching high school baseball coaches how to be better high

1:08:07 school baseball coaches. If someone gets up there and starts talking about hey this is

1:08:11 how you can make sure you score points at every point of the game. Just the fact that

1:08:15 they use the word points and not runs gives you a hint that this person doesn't know what

1:08:19 they're talking about. But they can talk at a high level about baseball about launch angles

1:08:24 and shifting and making sure you know your your OPS is high and all that type of stuff.

1:08:28 But if someone gets up there and doesn't know any of that like we know that it's it's going

1:08:33 to be a major issue but also the audience matters. So if you get up there and start talking

1:08:36 about launch angle and OPS and all that stuff and you're talking to a group of seven graders

1:08:40 that have never played baseball it's the wrong audience. He is looking at his audience and

1:08:45 doing what any good speaker would do and he's saying I need to say something that they know

1:08:49 that they attach to the same point you were making earlier right about where does he go

1:08:52 when he goes into these new cities. He goes into the synagogues. What do you think he talks

1:08:55 about there? I'm sure he talked about the law and the profits because these people wouldn't

1:08:58 understand that. But when you're in the greater Greek society in that culture that appeals

1:09:03 to reason and goes back to these stoic philosophies and philosophers and Epicureanism and different

1:09:07 things like that you have to meet them where they're at. This is a perfect example of that.

1:09:11 Yeah, I was reminded of what the first Corinthians 9 so it became to the week it became week

1:09:16 it goes on and said it became all things all men that I might save some just that same

1:09:21 idea of like just reading the room understanding where people are at and then meeting them where

1:09:25 they're at to draw them back to God. Exactly. Well, guys, I know there's more to say on

1:09:30 Acts 17, but we covered a lot of ground here today. We are going to have to leave it there.

1:09:34 But guys, come back here next week where we are going to be digging into Acts 18. But

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1:10:51 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,

1:10:57 mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.

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