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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Welcome back to the Forging Table.
0:59
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:02
forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:05
At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys normally.
1:08
Forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of you
1:11
to come along on that journey with us.
1:12
We have the largest Forging Table, Jake Winkler, and we have the OG Mac Grasmire butt butt butt.
1:17
I'm going to draw this out for the people that aren't watching on YouTube land.
1:20
So we do a lot of shout outs on this, this here Forging Table, right?
1:23
We usually shout out pastors that we really like or appreciate.
1:26
So Joe B. Martin has his own category of shout out because he has his own tagline for the
1:31
Forging Table.
1:32
And he's been on the Forging Table.
1:33
Sorry, Joe B, if we make a mistake.
1:35
But man, we give shout outs to Matt Chandler and we give shout outs to Vodie Bockham and
1:39
Charles Spurgeon and John McCarthen.
1:41
Who else?
1:42
Who else?
1:43
Who else?
1:44
Passers that get a lot of shout outs.
1:45
RC Sproul gets a lot of shout outs.
1:46
Got another one.
1:47
Yeah.
1:48
Oster bag.
1:49
We got a lot of people that we give shout outs.
1:50
If there were a Mount Rushmore of shout outs on the Forging Table, since we started this
1:54
thing over a year ago, it is the one and only Terry Fakes who is at the table today.
2:00
He is here with us.
2:01
Welcome Terry Fakes to the Forging Table.
2:02
I privileged to be here with you guys.
2:04
Okay.
2:05
We are so excited for this now for anyone out there that and these are just automatically
2:08
people that we don't like, but for people that have never heard of you before, people
2:11
that don't know who Terry Fakes is.
2:13
Can you give us just a little bit of an idea of, okay, what do you do now that you're like
2:16
a professional Christian kind of what's what's your game?
2:20
How do you, how do you make the professional Christian thing work for you?
2:22
Yeah.
2:23
Great question.
2:24
And I'm not surprised there are a lot of people that don't know who I am.
2:27
I was business guy for a lot of years and about 18 years ago, I moved to Crossings Community
2:34
Church to be a pastor there and I did two things there.
2:38
One was teaching, the other was managing, leading.
2:42
And so over the 18 years, God's blessed that church.
2:44
It's grown a great deal, got a group of good leaders have grown up in the church.
2:49
And so recently, this year, I've continued with the church with teaching, managing the
2:55
school clinics, et cetera, but also taken on some new adventures with Steve Green and
3:01
Museum of the Bible and some other things.
3:03
So it's been an interesting journey that God's had me on.
3:09
And so if you look back like true for all of our lives, when you look back, it starts
3:14
to make sense where God has been taking you and leading you and what he's been preparing
3:18
you for.
3:19
So I am very blessed to get to do some adventures in Museum of the Bible and other projects,
3:25
but also get to continue to pastor with and work with these guys.
3:30
Okay.
3:31
That's probably the worst part of your job.
3:32
I get it.
3:33
I understand.
3:34
But we're going to turn this into a little mini interview here because I got a couple
3:36
of questions.
3:37
So I've been in DC, but I did not have a chance to get over to the Museum of the Bible.
3:40
I was supposed to go over there.
3:41
Chad Robocho did his last book release for Saving Aziz over there.
3:45
So how did you even get connected with the Green family?
3:48
Why did they specifically want you to help with stuff at the Museum of the Bible?
3:52
What specifically are you doing there?
3:53
What's that?
3:54
What's that whole deal?
3:55
Yeah, great question.
3:56
I believe my wife and I have known Stephen Jackie for quite some time.
4:01
Our kids went to school together at OCS and we've just been off and on through the years,
4:08
been friends with them.
4:10
So near the end of last year, Steve asked me if I'd come work for him to do a variety
4:15
of projects of which a few are at Museum of the Bible.
4:18
And right now, that's kind of top of mind for me, but actually, you know, kudos to Steve
4:23
Green for being into a lot of ministry efforts and just my role is just come alongside him
4:29
and work on some of those ministry efforts.
4:32
But as far as the Museum of the Bible, that just fits my area of passion, my background.
4:37
And so there are a number of projects there from scholar initiatives, to exhibits, to
4:44
tours, you know, just things to make that institution more impactful.
4:49
The Museum of the Bible opened in 2017, of course, COVID hit shortly after that.
4:55
And so it's a little bit of a startup and I say that it's a world-class museum, but
5:00
it's a young museum.
5:02
And so there are just any number of ways to make it even better.
5:05
So from our history with the Greens and then just the way God's prepared me with management,
5:11
background, interest in languages and archaeology, et cetera, it sort of came together.
5:15
And I'm assuming the main reason why they were able to solidify your help with the Museum
5:20
of the Bible is that there has to be maps inside that building center or is that right?
5:24
So the reason why I got giggles out of these two is because you're the maps guy, okay?
5:28
So if we go to your Wednesday night stuff over crossings or if we listen to the podcast,
5:32
it's kind of like an inside joke now, like you're the maps guy.
5:35
So you need to give me a little bit of a background.
5:37
It's okay.
5:38
Wire maps, so cool.
5:39
And why do you like them so much?
5:40
Yeah.
5:41
It's gotten to the point where I painted myself in a corner.
5:43
If there are no maps, it's like, well, that's wrong.
5:46
And there are no maps.
5:47
I'm in deep, deep trouble.
5:48
Yeah.
5:49
It's a disappointment.
5:50
I'm actually a context guy and my interests during all the time I was in business world,
5:59
you know, I was interested in politics, interested in history, interested in archaeology.
6:02
My miners are in Greek and Hebrew, so I'm interested in languages, et cetera.
6:07
So you noticed all those interests and then God brought those interests together as a
6:13
Bible teacher.
6:14
Wasn't my plan, but, you know, he takes those disparate elements and brings them together.
6:18
And so for me, my calling, if you will, is to make the Bible come alive.
6:25
And one of the ways to do that is with context, it's like I like to say, the Bible is a real
6:31
story about real people in real history.
6:34
And I think it's more impactful once we realize, wait, those are people operating in real political
6:40
economic times, just like we are.
6:43
And so it quickly came around that context came to mean maps.
6:48
Well, I will say even before you got here, we were talking about you behind your back,
6:53
but that's one thing that these guys were talking about in terms of, I don't know if
6:56
you all actually said the phrase, like make the Bible come alive, but that's one thing
7:00
whenever I listen to, because your Wednesday night, they're a little bit more seminar and
7:06
less like sermon.
7:07
I guess if I would say that, and I mean that like in a good way to where it's like, you
7:11
feel like you're sitting through like getting more of that context.
7:13
I mean, would you guys say that's kind of where it goes for you?
7:16
Yeah, absolutely.
7:17
I mean, I think it's, I mean, I actually would credit Terry with, you know, a great deal of
7:22
the faith that I have actually grown over the past 10 years, you know, the, I've never
7:32
been able to connect with things emotionally when you start talking about, you know, you
7:38
go to a sermon on a Sunday morning, and sometimes he's impassioned speeches.
7:44
I don't always connect with those, but starting to go to Terry's class and listening to the
7:51
podcast that he does for crossings and then also so we speak whenever I hear those and
7:55
then I get engaged mentally with the Bible and you start realizing the historicity with
8:00
it, it is, it was a game changer for me.
8:05
So thank you, Terry.
8:06
Yeah.
8:07
That wasn't the plan to sit here and give you your flowers, but that's pretty nice.
8:10
Well, I would agree with that.
8:11
I think, Terry, to me, you are a walking representation of the RC Sproul quote, you don't have to
8:18
lose your intelligence to be a Christian, but you do have to lose your pride.
8:21
Right.
8:22
And I see that come out in you and I would echo Jake.
8:24
Like I've learned so much from you, but it's not just the context and the intellectual.
8:28
And there is that part of what you teach, but there is the, how did these real people
8:32
in real time put this stuff into practice and then how do we take this and put it into
8:38
practice and that, that practical application has been very life-changing for me and my
8:43
family.
8:44
So how awkward is it for you to receive compliments while you're sitting right in front of people?
8:48
Does it make you feel weird?
8:49
Well, a little except, you know, we all know that's by God's grace.
8:53
My story is your story.
8:55
And that is the experiences you've had and the interests that you have, God brings us
8:59
together, ties them up and then uses that in some way.
9:03
So I would say it's easy to be humble simply by knowing that this is all God's doing.
9:12
Well, I don't believe in life versus per se, but what's your life first?
9:18
But my life first is, but I've been meditating for the past couple of years and particularly
9:23
this year because of the things that have happened on David's statement in 1 Chronicles
9:27
1716.
9:28
He said, he comes and sits before the Lord and he says, "Who am I, O Lord God?
9:34
And what is my family that you have brought me this far?"
9:38
And so I have that sense of appreciation for God.
9:41
And that just is enough to rule out pride and that's true for all of us.
9:45
I think that's a helpful sentiment because recently I was doing a speech and everybody
9:49
kind of cleared the green room before it was time for me to go out there, set about 10
9:52
minutes to kind of get myself pumped and do all that kind of thing.
9:55
And I just kept saying, it's not about you, it's not about you, it's not about you.
9:58
Like this isn't about you.
9:59
Like, and we'll get there with some of our discussion of the things happening in Acts
10:02
when you feel like somebody or something is speaking through you.
10:05
But since they gave you your flowers, I'm going to give you your flowers as well.
10:08
So one thing that I've heard about just being in the city and running into random people
10:12
is I will hear about Terry Fakes' Sunday school class.
10:15
And so my wife and I, we lived in a different part of town and so we went to your Sunday
10:19
school class like twice and then we moved and then it was like, okay, we found a church,
10:23
faith Bible church here on this side of town.
10:25
And so there are a lot of, I don't know the best way to say it, but there's a lot of positives
10:31
that come off of your teaching that happened in a Sunday school context.
10:35
And it's a good reminder that when you're working guys, you're always working for an
10:39
audience of one and I always use this podcast as an example because it's, it's a fairly
10:43
large podcast now, but I put the same level of effort into every episode, every interview
10:49
as I did on episode six and 24 and 102.
10:54
It's the same level of effort because it's like, look, if I'm called home today, this
10:59
is what I'm leaving to humanity, right?
11:01
To a certain degree, I, you know, we're leaving 600 plus episodes to my boys, to anyone that,
11:06
you know, would maybe bring up their boys under the, you know, I guess philosophy that
11:09
we espouse.
11:10
And so you could say like, Hey, we're not recording your Sunday school lessons, but there's, I
11:14
don't know.
11:15
I mean, how many people are in y'all Sunday school?
11:16
How many hundred?
11:17
It's over a hundred.
11:18
Okay.
11:19
So over a hundred people, the amount of value that you add to those people and it, it comes
11:25
down as they're discipling and catechizing their families as they're performing headship
11:30
for the men that are in that Sunday school.
11:32
And so you've got a web of influence that goes far beyond the podcast.
11:36
And for those of you out there that are like, I can't find the podcast because I can't
11:38
spell his last name.
11:39
It's F E I X, Terry fakes, not Terry faking you out, but it's F E I X.
11:45
So go ahead and check that out.
11:47
Anything else do we need to slobber on him anymore before we get in to this new book
11:50
of the Bible?
11:51
Now I got a slobber on Matt a little bit.
11:53
So Matt pitched me on the idea of even getting you on the show, okay?
11:58
Because you know, when Joe became on the show, we were like, this, this is crazy.
12:01
He would never just like flight, Oklahoma to be on the forging table.
12:04
And wouldn't you know it?
12:05
That's exactly what he did.
12:06
Because he's such a huge fan of the show.
12:08
And we've got some other people that will be coming in being guests on the podcast.
12:12
But it was your idea.
12:13
And it's like, okay, yeah, I think that that that would be awesome.
12:15
But that was around the time, Terry, when we were trying to figure out, okay, what's
12:18
the next book or two that we're going to be looking at?
12:21
Because we're, we're already planning stuff out a year from now, like what we're going
12:25
to be studying and what that looks like.
12:27
And when you get into certain books, it's like, okay, that's going to be an investment.
12:30
Like when we decided we were going to do Matthew, it's like, well, that's an investment.
12:34
Like that's, that's a huge chunk of our year.
12:36
And then we take a little break for, you know, Psalms and Proverbs.
12:39
But then we wanted to get into the book of Acts and the interesting thing about the book
12:43
of Acts, this was kind of selfish for me as we were having the discussion because I would
12:47
hear things from the book of Acts and I would be like, wait a minute, I don't, I don't remember
12:50
that.
12:51
And it's partially because I didn't grow up in church.
12:53
I missed a lot of that Old Testament study that's just old hat for you guys.
12:57
And then I focused on different parts of the Bible, mainly Gospels and Pauline letters.
13:01
And so I missed out on things like Acts.
13:03
And so Matt was like, well, I think Terry would be good to kind of help us set the context.
13:07
And so that's really the whole, the whole point for you guys listening out there in YouTube
13:11
land and on Apple podcasts and Spotify is we wanted to have you help us kind of give
13:15
some context.
13:16
So go ahead.
13:17
Kyle, you know, it's funny hearing this from your perspective, because I just have to be
13:20
honest with you.
13:21
When Matt came to me, he said, we have a great opportunity for you to come on this podcast,
13:27
but it's going to cost you.
13:28
I've been voting him $200 to be Matt.
13:32
We have a commission split agreement.
13:34
Come on.
13:35
Oh, man.
13:37
What do you have to say for yourself?
13:38
Well, I don't have been most so whatever wife is that man.
13:44
I feel like that was, that's probably too low.
13:47
Was that 200 by the half hour or was that just for like the whole, yeah, he said that
13:53
was a down payment.
13:54
What it would cost me to get on this.
13:56
Well, well, we do what we can here.
13:58
We try to, you know, put this out for everybody.
14:01
And if we make a little money along the way, that's okay too.
14:03
But we need to go ahead and get into the book of Acts.
14:05
I've been very excited to get into this guys.
14:07
I've been excited about this for months and in the lead up to this, just studying these
14:10
first chunk of chapters has been really, really important.
14:14
But the cool thing about the book of Acts is this is basically a continuation of the
14:17
book of Luke.
14:19
And you know, it's written by Luke.
14:20
I mean, there's been a little bit of kerfuffle here recently about him being the author.
14:24
But I mean, there's not really any serious scholarship to prove otherwise.
14:28
But really, this is the beginning of a new age.
14:29
This is the age of the spirit.
14:31
And so for all of us coming off of the study of Matthew, now getting into acts, this is
14:35
really, really important.
14:36
I'm going to give out a couple of little details and get anything else from you guys.
14:40
But most people would assume that this happened before the temple that the before the temple
14:44
was destroyed in 70 AD.
14:46
Just again, some scholarship that says it would be after, but it wouldn't make a lot
14:49
of sense to not mention that here.
14:51
Peter and Paul, I guess, if you could pull out main characters, those would be some of
14:54
the main characters.
14:55
And so we'll be focusing on a lot of the things with them.
14:58
And a big theme is just God saving the Gentiles.
15:00
And so when you look at what's happening at this time, of course, we see some different
15:03
things in the Pauline letters, but that was really a huge focus of what we're, what we're
15:08
seeing here.
15:09
But for any of you guys, give us any context or anything that you'd like to put before we
15:12
start actually digging into acts one.
15:15
I think two things.
15:18
Number one, acts is still a book about Jesus.
15:22
We are talking through the acts of the apostles, of course, and yes, Peter and Paul and Steven
15:29
speech later on, but it's still a book about Jesus because it's a book about the Holy Spirit.
15:37
Number two, I think there's a pretty significant purpose here in Luke ensuring that we are
15:44
establishing Paul as an apostolic authority.
15:47
So he's not one of the initial 12 people know, he's not one of the initial 12.
15:52
Matter of fact, they know that he was a persecutor of Christians, but there's then you go into
15:58
subsequent texts of the Bible and you start seeing some of the letters that Paul is writing
16:03
and it's like, yes, this is an, this is an establishment of his authority as one of the
16:08
emissaries of Christ.
16:09
Yeah, and I'd add to that too, that big picture, step back, you can think if you want of the
16:16
Old Testament is the acts of God the Father and the Gospels as the acts of God the Son.
16:24
And many people have called this book the acts of the Holy Spirit.
16:27
And so it's, it's interesting, just perspective wise to see this is going to take the spirit
16:32
that God that Jesus promised is going to work through Christians.
16:36
And that's the ongoing story.
16:38
We are in the era of the, quote, acts of the Holy Spirit.
16:41
I think it's really important to, that's an important book to go over because I think
16:45
sometimes, and then for me specifically, the Holy Spirit is kind of, it's a weird thing
16:49
to grapple with and a weird thing to try to understand because, you know, the Father and
16:56
obviously Jesus the Son, the Spirit just seems like one of those things that has a lot of
17:00
mystery surrounding it and acts, acts is a really good book to get into to kind of understand
17:09
what the Holy Spirit is doing and how it performs the work of God.
17:15
Well, guys, let's go ahead and I agree with all those sentiments.
17:18
I appreciate that.
17:19
Let's go ahead and dig in and we're going to pull off the band aid right from the beginning.
17:22
Okay, Terry.
17:23
So you're going to read out loud the first two verses.
17:26
Now here's the deal.
17:27
We are ruthless if mistakes are made while reading.
17:29
So if you want to read in like Greek or Hebrew, we won't be able to know if you made a mistake.
17:33
So there we go.
17:34
Choose the language that you would like to read the first two verses in.
17:36
Oh, oh, we got to back up, Matt.
17:38
This is your fault.
17:39
You should know better before we get there every time it's somebody's first appearance
17:43
on the forging table.
17:44
They got to answer three questions.
17:45
Okay.
17:46
There are two minutes that you have to answer all three of these questions.
17:49
Number one, how did you become a Christian?
17:51
Number two, how do you like to study the Bible?
17:53
Number three, how does your brain work?
17:55
Okay.
17:56
So you got two minutes.
17:57
I became a Christian first.
18:00
I didn't grow up in a Christian home, kind of like you got.
18:03
And so I became a Christian first by pursuing every other avenue to add meaning to life
18:09
intellectually.
18:11
And when I reached the end of that and became an agnostic, my heart told me no one actually
18:16
lives like this.
18:18
And I realized no one actually lives like an agnostic.
18:20
You believe something.
18:21
So why don't I choose it?
18:23
I really read the Bible and it appealed to my head and my heart.
18:28
Second question was, which I already forgot.
18:32
I remember the third.
18:33
How do you like to study the Bible?
18:34
How do I study the Bible?
18:35
It always happens.
18:36
It's okay.
18:37
I don't mean this to sound arrogant by any means, but being interested in Greek and Hebrew
18:42
in college, particularly the New Testament, I try to keep my Greek up by studying the Bible
18:47
in Greek, but I really, I go to Bible and what I'll be reading from in a second is English
18:52
is a standard version.
18:53
I'm not a English standard version is better than anything else, but it's one of the new
18:57
words.
18:58
Yes.
18:59
That's exactly what he said.
19:00
Yeah.
19:01
I actually am.
19:02
I just try to be appealing.
19:03
Yeah.
19:04
That's right.
19:05
No, we don't care about that.
19:06
We retour that off a long time ago.
19:07
You guys are long past.
19:08
Yeah.
19:09
Yeah.
19:10
And so the way my brain works, I'm in terms of left brain, right brain.
19:13
I'm pretty much left brain analytical kind of guy, but I try to read widely so that you
19:19
can get that right brain gestalt, you know, read a lot of poetry, try to read some things
19:24
that bring beauty and so forth.
19:26
But the way my brain works, I've trained as a mathematician.
19:29
And so I tend to look at things in systems and analytical kinds of ways.
19:33
Well, I'm so glad you nerds are on that side of the table.
19:35
We've got the CPA and the mathematician.
19:37
Okay, Matt, we're just going to be over here apparently playing with rocks and shock or
19:39
something like that.
19:40
All right.
19:41
All right.
19:42
Terry, let's go ahead and get back in guys.
19:43
We were breaking into acts, acts one versus one and two.
19:47
In the first book, Otheophilus, I've dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach
19:52
until the day when he was taken up after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit
19:56
to the apostles whom he had chosen.
19:59
Okay.
20:00
So I need to know right from the beginning whether or not we're going to do the election
20:05
fight now or if we're going to do that later because I don't know that that's the best,
20:10
but every time I see the word chosen or something like that, Matt, you're looking a little skeptical.
20:14
Do we need to have the fight later?
20:15
I'm just saying we don't have to have it now.
20:17
There's a better verse later.
20:18
Okay.
20:19
We can do that.
20:20
We can do it later.
20:21
I'm totally fine with pausing.
20:22
Okay.
20:23
So is there anything that you'd like to add?
20:24
So as far as I could tell from my study, Theophilus is probably a patron of Luke's.
20:28
Is that essentially why we think that he has mentioned here at the very, very beginning?
20:33
It would be typical in literature of the time to address your work to the patron and it
20:38
would not have been inexpensive to write this down.
20:42
You know, parchment costs, a lot of money, it's garibes, et cetera, copying.
20:46
So one of the reasons people think that he is a real individual is because it was common
20:52
to address it to a patron.
20:54
The other point of view comes from the nature of his name.
20:57
As you guys know, Theophilus means lover of God.
21:00
So it could be symbolically addressed to all of you lovers of God.
21:06
So those are the two major points of view, but many think it is indeed written to a patron.
21:13
Well, and I think we will very likely spend a lot of time talking about this.
21:17
One of the things that I found very important as I was going through the ESV commentary,
21:21
which was fantastic.
21:22
The expository commentary is one of the reasons why it's so hard to preach through the book
21:27
of Acts is because it's like, where do we have description versus prescription?
21:31
And so it's like, okay, is this a verse or is this a, you know, admonition to a particular
21:36
group at a particular time in history or is this a message to us?
21:40
But we will certainly talk more about that.
21:41
Matt, if you will hit versus three through five.
21:46
He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs appearing to them
21:50
during 40 days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
21:53
And while staying with them, he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for
21:58
the promise of the father, which he said, you heard from me for John, baptized with water,
22:03
but you will be baptized with the Holy spirit, not many days from now.
22:07
So I remember reading, I can't remember which part I was reading, but I was reading about
22:12
the private conversation that Jesus had with Pontius Pilate and it occurred to me and I
22:17
text you guys immediately and I was like, wait a minute, how do we know, like, how did
22:21
Matthew know that this was said?
22:24
And so I text Joby and this wasn't like a, you know, attack of faith type thing, but I'm
22:28
like, wait a minute.
22:29
Like I've never thought about this.
22:30
How would we know?
22:31
And then he's like, well, Jesus spent, you know, 40 days hanging out with him, like after
22:34
he came back to life.
22:35
And so I'm assuming they talked about it and everybody was sitting there taking notes.
22:39
But for me, and I don't know how this is with you guys, we don't typically go super
22:42
ethereal here.
22:43
I'm mega curious what they talked about for 40 days, like, and I don't, I don't love speculating
22:48
when their scripture sitting right in front of us.
22:50
But to a certain degree, it's like, it couldn't have all been just equipping.
22:54
It couldn't have all just been teaching the entire time, like for the moment they woke
22:57
up to the moment they went to bed, it's like, okay, here's what we're going to be doing.
23:00
They were probably just hanging out chilling, but like, aside from, Hey, here's the stuff
23:04
that y'all didn't know about it.
23:05
Hey, let me tell you about my 40 days and 40 nights in the desert.
23:08
Like anyway, I don't know if you guys thought about that, but I spent a lot of time over
23:11
the last few weeks thinking like, what in the world did they talk about for 40 days?
23:13
Well, it's interesting because they did spend 40 days together, but in the next few
23:18
verses he, you know, they asking this clearly, they weren't talking about like the kingdom
23:24
of Israel and it's because they still come back to that.
23:27
So it's, it's fun to speculate on what they were talking about, but if they were talking
23:31
about that, they clearly didn't get it.
23:34
No, they didn't know.
23:35
No, I mean, I kind of imagine.
23:40
I think they may have just been so overjoyed that he was back.
23:44
I mean, if you think about, you know, the people who maybe were on the brink or people
23:51
you expected never to see again, and then they come back and it's just the joy you feel
23:57
in that moment when you do get to see them again.
24:00
And then also, what do you spend your time doing?
24:03
Well, it's not, let's talk about what we're going to do.
24:06
You're so thankful for their return that I'm sure they were just probably playing a highlight
24:13
reel of their relationship together.
24:14
Just like most of us do whenever we see someone who we expected to lose forever.
24:19
Right.
24:20
One, Terry, I actually had a question for this.
24:21
And since you mentioned your mathematician, anytime I see a number in Scripture, I'm just
24:24
going to immediately ask you.
24:25
But like, is there a significance to the 40 days here because, you know, 40 days comes
24:30
up with the 40 days of temptation that we see in Luke four, Moses, 40 days on Sinai receiving
24:35
the law and in Exodus 34 Elijah visited horrib for 40 day, a 40 day journey in first Kings.
24:42
Is there something specific that we should read into about the 40 days prior to Ascension
24:46
or is that just, that's just 40 days because it was 40 days?
24:49
Yeah.
24:50
And I think you're wise that anytime you see a number like that, you got to look for some
24:54
significance.
24:55
I think there are two significant elements to that number.
24:57
One is generic.
24:58
One is specific.
24:59
The generically 40 days seems to represent the idea of a completed mission, a complete
25:08
amount of time.
25:10
So 40 days of fasting, 40 days in the desert, 40 days, it represents the idea of the appointed
25:19
set amount of time to complete a purpose.
25:22
So it took 40 years in the desert for the Israelites to come out of Egypt and have
25:27
enough faith to approach the promised land, you know, they built faith in those 40 days.
25:32
So 40 in general is the appointed period of time to accomplish something.
25:38
Very specifically, if you think about the Messiah and the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18,
25:43
that God would raise up in other Moses, and then you think about the Messiah being doing
25:49
better Moses as Keller would say, the true and better Moses, you think about the ministry
25:53
of Jesus and how much it parallels the Exodus on a cosmic scale.
25:59
So I'm going to read a little bit of Exodus into this 40 days.
26:02
So what happened to Israel during the 40 years in the desert?
26:05
They came out and they were idolatrous.
26:08
They came out without faith in God and through 40 years, what really happened in the desert
26:12
was God took, like I like to say, he took the Israelites out of Egypt but took him 40
26:17
years to get Egypt out of the Israelites.
26:20
And so during that 40 years of manna, et cetera, they built faith.
26:24
They learned to trust God.
26:27
Think about the disciples.
26:28
So they come out of the crucifixion completely shattered, I mean, their hopes, their dreams,
26:34
their expectations are completely shattered.
26:37
And we're going to see in chapter two, at the day of Pentecost, 50 days later, all of
26:43
a sudden they have faith, you know, they've kind of got it together.
26:46
So I want to understand this 40 days is another 40 years in the desert, if you will, the building
26:51
of faith, taking the, the apostles from crushed individuals to vibrant, bold, faithful individuals.
26:58
So I'll read a little bit of 40 years in the desert into that.
27:02
And in addition to this, whenever I read, it's very easy to read the gospels and be like,
27:07
gosh, the apostles were morons, like they just didn't get it, like they were constantly
27:11
being told, Hey, I'm going to die, but don't worry, I'm going to come back.
27:14
And then when he died, they were just apoplectic.
27:16
And then he came back and they were shocked.
27:17
It's like, this is what he told you is going to do.
27:20
But I never try to assume that I wouldn't be that dumb.
27:22
I assume that I would be dumber.
27:24
And so when I read verse five, it says, for John baptized with water, but you will be
27:28
baptized with the Holy Spirit, not many days from now.
27:32
We just read them.
27:33
We just move on to verse six.
27:34
They had to have been completely stuck.
27:37
What in the world does that mean?
27:38
This is prepentacost, like so, so we don't really know.
27:41
And so I know what it was like for you guys, but I mean, I've read that verse a lot before,
27:44
but then immediately when I read that, I was able to kind of like, put myself in their
27:48
shoes and be like, crap, he confused us for three years with parables.
27:52
And now he's just confusing us again, like he's back.
27:55
This is awesome.
27:56
But what in the world does that mean?
27:57
Like we baptized people with water, we know that we've watched him do it.
28:00
We watched him get baptized, this is all good, but man, that had to have been just a shocking
28:03
thing for them to hear.
28:05
Well, and I mean, they were stiff-necked and Jesus knew they were stiff-necked.
28:09
There were several times in his ministry that he foretold of him sending the Spirit or God
28:16
spending, sending the Spirit in his name.
28:18
And this was something that he continually promised.
28:20
I think in three straight chapters in John, he promises the Holy Spirit.
28:25
So God knows that we're stiff-necked and we're not, it's going to take us a while to get
28:29
it.
28:30
So, yeah, and I think this is just another point.
28:32
Okay, this is coming.
28:33
This is something I've said.
28:34
And I'm just going to keep repeating myself because I know that's what's needed for you
28:38
guys to understand and know what's going to happen.
28:41
Yeah, it's a good segue to the actual next verses, just how stiff-neck they are.
28:47
Well, we can tell that you have got ants in your pants.
28:49
So how about we go ahead and get to these next verses, Jake, you have volunteered as tribute.
28:53
You will be reading verses six through 11, ready, set, go.
28:57
So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore
29:02
the kingdom of Israel?"
29:04
He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed
29:08
by his own authority.
29:10
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses
29:14
in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth."
29:19
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud
29:24
took him out of their sight.
29:26
And while they were gazing into heaven, as he went, behold, two men stood by them in
29:30
white robes and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven?
29:36
This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven will come in the same way as you saw
29:41
him go into heaven."
29:43
So one thing that is helpful, I look for things that are in culture or things that even we
29:48
see on social media that will help me make the Scripture come more alive.
29:53
I know a lot of people we've talked about on the show, there's a lot of people that don't
29:56
like the chosen because, wait a minute, that particular conversation, that narrative was
30:01
not in Scripture, that's not biblical.
30:03
But I will say things like the chosen, as I've said a lot before, like the woman with
30:07
the problem of blood, that story never landed with me until it was a three-episode arc in
30:12
season what, three of the chosen or something like that.
30:15
And it literally gets me choked up even just thinking about that story now.
30:20
So something like the AI Bible, which is like a TikTok or Instagram channel or something
30:24
like that, they basically do their videos like, here's how people think this thing looked.
30:30
And then it's like, here's how the Bible describes it.
30:32
And so I think about the ascension because again, this isn't that many verses.
30:36
And you read through and it's just like, oh yeah, he just iron manned up into the sky
30:39
and he was gone.
30:40
And then everyone just went on about their business.
30:42
But like for me, I like sat in these verses for a little bit and had to be like, okay,
30:48
came back from the dead.
30:49
That's pretty crazy, but we're used to that now.
30:51
We've been hanging out with him for a few dozen days.
30:53
And then he just zip and he's gone.
30:55
Like for me, it was kind of overwhelming to think about this week.
30:58
I think this is, I mean, I get goosebumps every time I read this because this is about
31:03
Jesus ascending to his rightful place at the right hand of the Father.
31:09
This kind of puts the capstone on what Jesus came to do and what he's about, the kingdom
31:14
of God is at hand and Jesus reigns now in heaven and on earth.
31:19
And this is kind of a crowning thing for me.
31:21
It just, I don't know, that just makes me feel really excited that that was kind of
31:25
the culmination.
31:26
And his coronation, I guess, would be a good way to put it of he is now seated at the right
31:31
hand of power and reigning and ruling in heaven and on earth.
31:37
And then he's going to send the spirit to help us, you know, proclaim that.
31:41
Well, and things have come full circle here.
31:44
If you think about it, he's going back to where he started.
31:47
I think Philippians, chapter two, you know, Jesus who was equivalent with God didn't consider
31:51
that something to be grasped or held on to, but humbled himself, emptied himself.
31:55
So he comes from the father down to earth.
32:00
He goes into Hades, so to speak.
32:03
I mean, you think about the crease, you know, he's dies.
32:05
He goes into the quote, underworld, he's dead.
32:08
He comes back and is raised, you know, to life.
32:12
He comes back with them and now he's raised back and he's come full circle from the right
32:18
hand of the father.
32:19
He comes down to save us.
32:21
He goes into death.
32:22
He comes up from death and he goes up from the earth.
32:25
And there's a lot of that circling going on in the scriptures, you know, you've got the
32:29
Garden of Eden in the beginning, now fall of man, redemption of man, Garden of Eden at
32:34
the end of revelation.
32:36
God seems to like tell stories like this with descents and ascents.
32:41
I don't know, I read when I was reading this studying and I started laughing on verse six
32:47
when they asked, you know, Lord, will it, will you at this time restore the kingdom of Israel?
32:53
And I'm just, I started laughing because I'm just thinking, okay, we've seen Jesus do all
32:58
of these miracles.
33:00
He's now died.
33:01
He's risen from the grave.
33:03
And they're like, all right, now, will you please do what I want?
33:07
And just this insistence over and over again of, well, when are you restoring the kingdom
33:13
of Israel?
33:15
And I think he did, I mean, he restored it on the cross, he restored them to a connection
33:24
with God that no longer required what it previously required.
33:29
I think it was, I just kind of was looking at it and just going how foolish we can be
33:34
thinking that there's something else that needs to be done here, you know, the restoration
33:41
of the kingdom of Israel.
33:42
It's like, no, it's been restored.
33:44
It's back.
33:45
It's almost as if God knows how we operate and you see that today.
33:49
And I think we can even fall into that just with our prayer life, you know, as we go to
33:53
God for things, asking for things.
33:56
And I want this and I want this, even though we know it through scripture that that's not
34:02
what it's all about, there is an aspect of that, but I think a lot of times people get
34:07
hung up on the, well, my prayer life is really, I really don't have a good prayer life because
34:10
I'm not seeing, you know, I'm asking God for all these things and I'm just not seeing
34:15
those things.
34:16
Yeah.
34:17
It's like, that's not what it's about.
34:18
When I think that's part of the problem with, you know, church in our backyard life church
34:21
when it's like, okay, hey, we're going to do a 90 day giving challenge.
34:24
So give for 90 days.
34:25
And if God hasn't blessed you in this time period that we just made up, you know, we'll
34:30
give you your money back. And so it's like, this is in a furniture store where it's like,
34:33
try it out for like, you know, 90 days. And if you don't like the couch, you can bring
34:36
it back or something like that. It's a little bit different, but I do want to go to something
34:39
in this chunk of verses because Terry, you sent a text to the group before we got here
34:43
about verse eight and I wrote in my notes for you, even God here that verse eight is the
34:46
key verse, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you
34:49
will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.
34:54
And the note that you sent to us was the idea of witnesses and martyrs and that being kind
34:59
of a template for this book of acts as the, you know, the whole end of the Christian mission.
35:05
The thing that I wanted to get into is, I think it is safe to say that the testimony
35:10
of the eyewitnesses is the core of a lot of people's faith, especially people that come
35:14
through the apologetics wing, right? So they, they, you know, your lease troubles and your
35:18
Robbie Zachariah says, he who shall not be named, right? Like when you go through these
35:21
people, they go back to the eyewitnesses, right? And there's a book over there on the shelf
35:25
and on our book list. Oh, gosh, I just forgot the name of it. Jesus and the eyewitnesses.
35:30
So this, it's like right there in, in exactly what I've been saying. But I guess the concern
35:35
I have, and we've talked about this at this table as well as people, I feel like take
35:39
that a little bit too far. And someone in particular, I would say is like Andy Stanley.
35:43
So this was his, his unhitch stuff that he was going through years ago. Like, Hey, let's
35:47
unhitch the New Testament from the Old Testament. We don't need the Old Testament. The core
35:51
of our faith is the resurrection. And it's like, I get why you would say that from a pragmatic
35:57
standpoint, because the eyewitness testimony is what seals the deal for a lot of people
36:02
when they're thinking about this intellectually. But it becomes problematic to where it's like,
36:07
if you get rid of the Old Testament, you have no idea what you're looking for. You have
36:10
no idea why the resurrection would even happen. And you can't even place why that was occurring
36:16
for you. And so I want to kind of get your, your thoughts on that whole situation really
36:21
over all your thoughts on verse eight. Yeah, well, just jumping off what you just said,
36:25
I think you, that's very wise, the problem with preaching only the resurrection. I mean,
36:31
clearly, you'll see as we move through this. And I understand why you can read the book
36:35
of Acts and say, well, the whole key was they were testifying their witnesses to the resurrection.
36:41
No doubt about that. But the problem with unhooking it is now you have what I like to
36:46
say. The gospel now becomes a solution looking for a problem. In other words, here's the solution.
36:53
After death, there's hope. Well, great. But why do I need that? You know, it's the Old Testament,
37:01
and it is the whole arc of the major story of humanity, of the fall of humanity, God's loving
37:07
plan and pursuit of redemption of humanity. Now, all of a sudden the resurrection makes sense.
37:13
So you can be saved. You can come to place your trust in Christ by hearing about the resurrection,
37:20
but to say then that you don't need to understand God's greater story. That's like, you know,
37:26
not sending love letters to your wife. You know, that's like one of those shows where,
37:30
what do they do? They meet each other on the show and get married the next day. It's one of those
37:33
kinds of things. You're still married, but you don't have the love story. Yeah, right. As I write,
37:39
send love letter to wife. That is a good reminder. That's probably the first time I've ever heard
37:46
the Old Testament and New Testament compared to the bachelor. I mean, that's...
37:49
Well, I mean, you know that's your favorite show. I mean, it's very dramatic. The roses and all that
37:54
stuff. But what's interesting about that now is Andy Stanley, amongst other things, is a master
37:59
communicator, right? Now, in that, if you're a master communicator, you can also be a master
38:03
manipulator, but he's not using the word on hitch anymore. He's using the word tether. So he's like,
38:08
tether your faith. He'll say, don't tether your faith to the, to the accuracy of the gospel accounts,
38:14
or he, that's not how he says it. He says, don't tether it to the infallibility or, you know,
38:19
inerrancy of the Bible and different things like that. Thank you. He's like, tether it to
38:24
the resurrection, tether it to the testimony of the eyewitnesses. And it's like, okay, if he had
38:29
started with tether, he probably didn't get into all that mess that he did years and years ago,
38:34
but it was actually helpful for me to go back and think, wait, if this guy actually thinks that,
38:38
it kind of tinges a lot of his lessons that I had taken in in the years prior to that. And I just,
38:43
you know, I don't see a good argument for why he should be able to do that moving forward or using
38:47
that as an overall philosophy. Well, a question should be asked, like, how do we know
38:53
that about the eyewitness testimony? There's kind of a circular argument that you take what we know
38:59
about it because of the Bible. And if it's not an errand, that's a problem. Yeah, if the Bible
39:05
isn't what it says it is, then yeah, we've got some real problems to deal with, don't we? So,
39:09
I don't know, that that is always a question that comes from my mind when people say stuff like that,
39:13
it's like, well, but how do we know that the eyewitness testimony is true? And how do we know
39:18
that it's there? Where do we get it from? Well, it's from the Bible. I don't know, that's always a
39:22
curious thing for me to hear. Well, in the historicity of what we see there is obviously very important
39:26
because there's a book called "Tried by Fire" by William Bennett. It's the details of the first
39:32
thousand years of church history. The first 300 years were pretty daggone bloody. And we, you know,
39:38
he details how certain martyrs were killed. So some of them were buried alive, some of them were
39:42
putting cages and dropped in water. Some of them would have one horse hooks to one leg and one to
39:47
the other leg, and they would be ran in opposite directions so that the person would be split right
39:50
up the middle. They were impaled, they were set ablaze, they were fed to animals like these horrible,
39:55
horrible things. But we hear all these accounts from history and we hear them from Jewish scholars,
40:00
Roman scholars, you know, pagan scholars, but we don't have any accounts of these people
40:05
recanting and saying, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding. We made all this up. We got together
40:11
and we pretended like this guy came back because we wanted money and influence and women and all
40:15
this other stuff, just kidding. We don't see any of that. Instead, we see, you know, these pagan
40:21
authors being like, for whatever reason, these people knew they were about to get ripped to shred
40:26
by, by, by bears and lines and things like that, and they would be singing these psalms of praise
40:31
on the way. I don't really understand it, but that would be the commentary that they would leave
40:34
behind. Yeah, even to the opposite effect. They didn't recant, but I can't remember who the,
40:40
who the reformer was, but there was someone, I think it was during the Reformation or maybe it
40:44
was during, you know, kind of the Puritan era where somebody he, he was made to, I think this was in
40:50
England. He was made to, he recanted his faith and then he just felt so convicted because that's
40:55
what saved his life. He was like, no, I can't do it. And he, so he willingly went back and was like,
40:59
all right, you got to kill me because I'm not, I'm recanting my recantation. And now, and so he
41:04
willfully went to death because he was so convicted by the Holy Spirit. So yeah, the opposite of that
41:09
is true. Yeah, the book you tried by fire, I'm actually in the middle of it right now, but I mean,
41:14
some of the stories are brutal. And it was interesting because there would be some people
41:20
whenever they were put to task by the Romans would, would say, okay, they back off. There were some
41:26
that recanted and backed off and like one of the original controversies, one of the original splits
41:32
in the church was these people would actually try and come back and say, can I rejoin the faith?
41:40
And some people are like, absolutely not. And that was one of the original, like, well,
41:46
no, we should welcome them back. I think it does go back to how many times, matter of fact,
41:51
I think we talked about this at Bible study Wednesday, you know, I got saved whenever I was
41:57
17 years old. But have I lived a, you know, righteous life since 17, like in accordance with
42:04
God's will, I think we can safely say no, absolutely not. No, we've been paying attention. But like,
42:10
that's, that's the process I talked about. Thank you, Terry. I love that we got zingers. We got
42:16
zingers right from the beginning. But that's something that I actually talked about when I was on John
42:19
Cooper show last where it's like delayed sanctification because I asked him about this concept to where
42:23
it's like, okay, I get saved as a, you know, 15 year old. And then I felt like I just kind of like
42:28
spun my wheels because I read the entire New Testament, you know, super fired up. And then I got bogged
42:32
down somewhere around Leviticus. And I was like, I don't understand what's happening, didn't have
42:35
anyone helping me, didn't have, you know, anyone discipling me. And so then I felt like I had a
42:40
multi decade decade thing where I was just kind of like trying to be moral and try not to like screw
42:44
up too bad. And so I asked him about the process of like delayed sanctification, because there's
42:49
some people that just are on the sanctification process from the beginning and they're leaning in,
42:54
and that becomes our entire life. But for others, there's almost like this arrested development in
42:58
your sanctification process. Well, go ahead, Terry. No, we're defaulting to Terry at this table now,
43:04
but you let him talk that. No, I think the thing that comes to my mind when you say that is the
43:12
parable of the sewer, you know, that idea of sanctification. And how does that tie into the
43:16
idea of having roots? I know that's something that you've, you've probably thought about.
43:20
Well, yeah, like what, like how it's not just, it's not just, it's an active thing. Like, I have
43:25
to actively prepare like, am I the good soil? I can, I have, I have some acts that I can do,
43:32
or I have, I have some work that I can do to tell my soil to make sure that that what I'm receiving
43:38
is going into fertile ground and that I'm not hardening my own heart to the word. But what I
43:44
think about is, this is a very helpful thing for me that's helped me kind of understand we are,
43:50
when we are justified and we put our faith in Christ, we are delivered from the dominion of sin,
43:55
but not yet from its presence. And so Luther, I think put it, and I'll probably butcher this,
44:00
sorry, Joby. We are at the same time, clothed in Christ's righteousness, but also still depraved
44:07
sinners in need of that Savior. So our righteousness isn't our own, but there is still this daily battle
44:13
that we must fight. And to think that I just put my faith in Christ. And so now I'm good,
44:19
as Bonhoeffer would call that cheap grace, that's not the point of the story.
44:23
So there's this continual, like dichotomy of, yes, I am justified and I am clothed in righteousness,
44:28
but I have this battle that I got to wage every day and I got to pick up my cross
44:32
constantly. And if I don't, I'm in air and I am going to backslide and I'm going to do things
44:39
that are not to the glory of God. So I got to take a quick exit to do a couple of things.
44:45
The first thing is I need to, I don't know that I explained to you what sorry Joby means. And so
44:49
a long time ago, we realized that Joby Martin, apparently spends his time listening to us
44:55
simpleton sit here and try to talk through our face holes and not sound completely ridiculous.
44:59
And then which is somebody made a mistake. I don't remember what it was, but then I think
45:03
you were the first one that did it. You just said, ah, sorry, Joby. And so because we know he's
45:07
listening. And so that just became a thing. Sorry, Joby, but in a text message thread this
45:12
week, I think it was Matt, you and I again, we came up with your tagline. Now, I don't know if we
45:16
should do that in front of you or not, but it's going to be DTT, which is don't tell Terry. So
45:22
okay, if we make a mistake on a future episode, I don't think we can say that while you're here,
45:26
it's going to be don't tell Terry. Are you okay with that? Yeah, if we mess up the Hebrew or the
45:31
Greek, we just we won't really go there. But also I didn't remind you guys that we were partnered
45:35
with Crossway and the Logos Bible software. So a lot of guys have asked like, Hey, I want to do
45:38
this forging table thing with my group of guys, you know, what kind of resources should I have.
45:42
So in the show notes, there are five books that Crossways put together. There's a study Bible
45:46
there, a journal, there's some other books that are fantastic. And you can get that entire set of
45:51
books for 50% off if you use the promo code, all the instructions are there in the show notes.
45:54
And I don't know if you guys have used the Logos Bible software, those listening right now. But
45:58
if you want to literally send your Bible study to the next level, well, Terry, you basically just
46:03
gave me the nod. Talk to us about Logos. Logos software. Great. I think, you know, there are some
46:09
competitors out there and but just my recommendation to people would be get a starter pack. Logos,
46:15
it's a great way. It's very understandable. It's very, it can be very high level. Yes. But it's a
46:23
great way to start. If nothing else, then Bible translation and a commentary or two, the ESV
46:30
study Bible, put them up on four windows for years. That's how I did 99% of my studying for lessons.
46:39
So I'm a big believer in Logos and you can start small and build over time.
46:43
Right. It's very, very powerful. I will tell you guys, sometimes I feel like my intellect,
46:47
if it were energy, would not be able to keep a small light bulb going for most of the afternoon.
46:52
And so I was able to even use the Logos Bible software to my redounding benefit, even just a
46:56
little bit. But I would absolutely echo that you can get a starter pack and then you can add to it
47:00
from there. But there is a link in the show notes, guys, that you can get the Logos Bible software
47:04
at a discount. And guys, I'm just telling you, like, study Bibles are great. We got, you know,
47:09
the MacArthur study Bible right here, we've got a bunch of study Bibles over there on the shelf.
47:12
Those are all fantastic. There's something different about the Logos Bible software being
47:16
able to just like click on a particular word, see it in the Greek in the Hebrew, see everywhere
47:20
else in Scripture that it is used. We've literally got it up right now. You got the Logos up right
47:24
now. This is like the greatest commercial ever that I didn't even intend for this to happen.
47:28
Look at that right there on that little bitty iPad. Okay, very, very good. Now, Terry,
47:32
you did such a good job reading two verses. So you read the shortest amount. Now you have to read
47:37
the longest amount because you're going to finish up Acts one. So go from verses 12 through the
47:41
end, which is verse 26, please. When they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount called Olivet,
47:47
which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. And when they had entered,
47:51
they went to the upper room where they were staying. Peter and John and James and Andrew,
47:57
Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James, the son of Alphaeus and Simon the zealot
48:03
and Judas, the son of James. All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer
48:09
together with the women and married the mother of Jesus and his brothers. In those days, Peter
48:14
stood up among the brothers. The company of persons was in all about 120 and said brothers,
48:19
the scriptures had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David
48:25
concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us
48:31
and was allotted his share in this ministry. Now this man acquired a field with the reward of
48:36
his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
48:41
And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their
48:45
own language, Aclodama, which is field of blood. For it is written in the book of Psalms,
48:51
may his camp become desolate and let there be no one to dwell in it. And again, let another
48:57
take his office. So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord
49:02
Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken
49:07
up from us. One of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection. And they put forward
49:14
too, Joseph called Barsobus, who was also called Justice and Matthias. And they prayed and said,
49:21
"You Lord, who knows the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take
49:26
the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
49:32
And when they cast lots for them, the lot fell on Matthias and he was numbered with the 11 apostles.
49:38
So the thing that was struck by in this section as we kind of wrap up Acts 1,
49:42
and I don't know the answer to this and I couldn't really find any commentaries that even focus on
49:47
this. So apparently I'm a weirdo for focusing on the wrong things. But why did they have to
49:51
replace Judas? And so I don't really see an answer from Scripture. And I don't know, again,
49:56
is there an importance? You know, guys on the other side of the table to the number 12,
50:00
is there something about the completion, about the original 12 that were chosen,
50:04
one has been lost, so we need to add one back. We don't really see this game of them, you know,
50:09
as the apostles were dying for their faith, where they're like, all right, we got to get the 12
50:12
back and we got to keep this number of 12, like, you know, NBA roster, you got to keep 12
50:17
guys ready to go on the floor. Do we have an answer for why Judas had to be replaced?
50:22
I have one, but it's probably wrong.
50:24
Okay, then let Terry talk first. Terry's going to get it right and you're going to mess it up.
50:28
Okay, Terry, we have the same reason. I don't have a definitive answer for you,
50:32
but I do think that as you pointed out, call numbers are suggestive. And so 12 being the number
50:38
of the 12 tribes and the idea of having lost one through disobedience, the idea of bringing
50:45
together the fullness of Israel, if you will, in a symbolic sense. So I suspect that's exactly
50:51
what Jake was about. No, I was good. No, mine was mine was going to be a joke, but Judas was
51:00
the treasurer, right? I mean, he was the one that kept track of the money. I just figured the
51:04
other guys didn't know how to do it. So the lesson here is you always need an accountant.
51:09
You always need an accountant. These two guys are both accounts. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
51:15
A little known fact from history is Matthias was a CPA. That's right. That's right.
51:20
How do you think the other guy felt like, Joseph, he's just like, dad, come in. They cast lots.
51:24
It's like, you know, I went to school and got this thing. I sat, I got the hours to sit for
51:28
this exam, but I come on wasn't this something they did in the Old Testament too? Like if they,
51:32
if they, I mean, both of these guys were qualified and would have been great representations of Christ
51:37
as an, as an apostle. And so they were saying, okay, we're going to cast these lots because it,
51:43
like really, both of you are great. And didn't, didn't they do that in the Old Testament as well?
51:47
They would cast, not for this specifically, but they would cast lots for things when they
51:50
couldn't come up with a decision. And to let God speak to it, basically, is like, they thought
51:55
that was a mechanism for God to speak. So what decision? I've wondered this. What is casting lots?
52:01
Like, what is, what is that? Terry smile. Terry knows the answer. Ready, set, go, Terry.
52:06
Well, modern terms, they flipped a coin. Yeah, but like a little game, right? It's like a little,
52:11
I don't know. I'm here in casting. And I'm like, are they at the, at the craps table? No, they were
52:17
fishing. They were fishing for lots. No, like that, that's essentially the, it was a coin flip.
52:23
They weren't going to do best two out of three. It's like, okay, we're going to kind of let God
52:27
speak through this, which again, I think it's into the discussion about descriptive versus prescriptive
52:31
guys. If you have a very, very important decision out there, we're not telling you that God will
52:35
communicate to you through a quarter or a half dollar. Like that's not necessarily a prescriptive
52:39
thing. But is there anything else on acts one before we wrap up?
52:43
Yeah, I think it's interesting that Luke puts in here in, oh gosh, what verse verse 14,
52:49
that Mary, the mother of Jesus, it's a very, very powerful statement that Mary was a part of the
52:55
first church. And she was obedient, obedient to Christ. Her sons call to be a part of the body
53:04
of believers. And I think that's intentional that he put that in there because there are
53:10
some denominations that put Mary up on a pedestal and pray to her, call it whatever you want.
53:19
And to me, that kind of is a great example of she was praying to her son as her savior and not
53:27
receiving prayer and veneration. I don't know. That's kind of what I took from that.
53:32
No, it's also very important because it talks about Mary, the mother of Jesus and his brothers,
53:37
this idea that she was a perpetual virgin. This is something that was added. And so we kind of
53:42
make a joke about it, but we also mean it when we talk about gospel plus, right? Like, oh, you
53:45
haven't signed up for gospel plus yet. And so you're not going to be able to get this extra
53:48
little bit. But it's like, yeah, no commercials for gospel plus. But it's like, this is what happens
53:53
when you lean on church history and tradition and not on the words of scripture. And that's
53:58
something that it's been helpful that Joby has taught me to where it's like, okay, Catholics,
54:02
Eastern Orthodox, things like that, they're leaning on tradition and Bible. The problem is,
54:06
is what is the ultimate authority? Because eventually what happens when a guy in a pointy
54:13
hat in Rome says something that doesn't jive with the Bible, who wins out? You have to have
54:17
an answer from that from the resident Catholic or former Catholic, former, that's very important
54:22
qualifier. But for the former Catholic, that's the thing is where it's like, these things are just
54:27
so they're, I mean, they're just a biblical, they're just not even there. But it's, hey,
54:30
well, this has been tradition for 1500, 1800 years. So we're just going to go with it.
54:34
Yeah, it's one, it's actually, I mean, with the pope, I mean, this apostolic authority that he's
54:40
supposedly derives, there, there can't be any more apostles. I mean, R. C. Sproul in the commentary
54:49
that Matt and I have been digging into, he was talking about the three requirements to do that,
54:54
because I mean, if you thought again, apostolic authority, you're talking about somebody who literally,
54:59
I mean, think of it as like an im, a diplomat, an emissary, like of the king, somebody who's going
55:05
out and speaking for the king, that is a, like, that's a large burden to bear. And there was,
55:13
there's three required, Sproul says there's three requirements. Number one, they had to be a member
55:17
of Jesus's band of disciples. Two, they had to be an eyewitness to the resurrection.
55:23
And three, there's a direct and immediate commissioning by Christ himself.
55:28
So when we hear people, and that's, you know, that's the problem with the idea of the pope as
55:35
some sort of apostle who basically says things, and this is what you're supposed to do.
55:40
He doesn't meet any of those requirements. It doesn't meet any of those requirements.
55:46
So, well, to our understanding, I think there's some, there's some things that people would say,
55:51
like, I've been commissioned by God because, or by Christ, because Christ told me.
55:55
I, I like Walter Martin talks about this specific thing as a messenger of the king.
56:05
You were, and I know a lot of other people talk about this too, but his words are very,
56:11
very powerful in my head. Like, you were, in fact, the king as his representation,
56:17
and he not being there, in those days, you were the representation of the king. And to disobey
56:23
the word of the messenger of the king was to die. And that carries a lot of weight and a lot of
56:28
authority. But when we have people saying, and saying that they have the authority, and they've
56:33
heard from, from Jesus, you are blaspheming. You are taking the Lord's name in vain. And that
56:38
carries a very powerful weight too. And that's a, that's a heavy burden to carry around. And there
56:44
will be, I think, some more harsh judgment for people who blaspheme or take the Lord's name in vain
56:50
and say, say things like, like, like unfulfilled prophecies or prophecies that don't come true.
56:56
And there's a lot of that that goes around in, in the church, or around the world,
57:01
people saying that they are speaking for God. For sure. Terry, anything as we wrap up Acts 1?
57:05
One last thing, just to plan a, put a pin in this on chapter 1, verse 8, you get that passage
57:12
about the Holy Spirit will come upon you and you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem. Judea,
57:18
Samaria, ends of the earth. So we're expanding out from Jerusalem to Judea to Samaria to the ends of
57:25
the earth. A lot of people think, and I would agree, this is a good way to look at the entire
57:29
book of Acts, is this is a template. It's going to move spiritually, but it's also going to move
57:34
geographically. This will also explain why Peter's going to be the prime character, if you will,
57:41
the prime leader at first, because we're going to be in Jerusalem and Judea and onto Samaria,
57:47
and then Paul, who was appointed apostle to the Gentiles, becomes the lead character as you move
57:54
into the Gentile world. And so it's a nice little roadmap for the rest of the book.
57:58
Very good. Well, there's more that can be said about Acts 1, but we're going to leave it there.
58:02
But guys, come back here next Sunday where we're going to be digging into Acts 2. There's a ton
58:06
to talk about in Acts 2. So I'm very, very excited about that. But before I let you go,
58:09
we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Add on to life, our mission is equipping
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men to push back darkness with content that forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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Again, we've got the crossway starter set. All those instructions are here. We've got the Logos
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Bible software. You can check that out here as well. And guys, we are a donation based ministry.
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Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
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I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
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keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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[Music]