0:00
You focus on your physical and mental health, but when's the last time you checked in on
0:04
your financial health?
0:06
Many Americans feel financially anxious, yet many are doing better than they think.
0:10
At Fairwind's Credit Union, we give you a clear snapshot of your finances and a plan
0:15
to move forward with confidence.
0:17
With high-yield savings and free checking, we help your money work harder.
0:21
Visit fairwinds.org for more information, federally insured by NCUA.
0:28
The new LinkedIn Hiring Pro can't undo your last hire, the empty seat.
0:33
Who is actually just that, an empty chair in your office, because you couldn't find
0:36
someone to fill it.
0:37
So it just sat there, costing you money with all its fancy ergonomic features.
0:43
But LinkedIn Hiring Pro can make it easy to fill that seat with the right candidate,
0:47
with nearly 60% of businesses finding someone to interview in the first week alone.
0:51
Hire right the first time with LinkedIn Hiring Pro.
0:54
That's a free job today at linkedin.com/quality.
1:18
This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
1:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it.
1:24
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:29
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:32
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:35
by digging into God's Word, and we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with
1:39
us.
1:40
That's Ryan.
1:41
That's Matt.
1:42
And if you didn't listen to last week's episode, you need to go back and do that.
1:45
I think we set the record for the longest forging table episode, but there was just so
1:48
much there.
1:49
We got into a lot of discussion, and so we didn't really fully finish our discussion
1:53
of 2 Timothy 2.
1:54
So we're going to start in verse 14 of 2 Timothy 2, but then we're just going to roll right
1:58
into 2 Timothy 3 today.
2:01
Because again, as we've pointed out, laughing at ourselves a little bit, this is a letter.
2:05
It's just one letter.
2:06
It's not like you shouldn't really think of it in chapters, like chapters and verses
2:10
were put in later to make it easier for us to reference this particular document, but
2:15
did want to go there.
2:16
So if somebody will, we're going to see who's feeling froggy.
2:20
We will read 2 Timothy 2, 14 through 19.
2:23
I'll do it.
2:24
Matt's God.
2:25
Let's go.
2:26
"Remind them of these things and charge them before God, not to quarrel about words,
2:32
which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
2:35
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to
2:40
be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2:44
But avoid irreverent babble, or it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and
2:50
their talk will spread like gangrene.
2:53
Among them are Himeneas and Phileus, who have swered from the truth, saying that the resurrection
3:01
has already happened.
3:03
They are upsetting the faith of some."
3:04
Did you say 19?
3:07
Yeah.
3:08
Sorry.
3:09
But God's firm foundation stands bearing this seal.
3:11
The Lord knows those who are His, and let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart
3:18
from inequity.
3:19
So the big discussion here in this hit me because shocked anyone that's listened to
3:24
the show for a long time, I can be a little quarrelsome and I can point things out, whether
3:30
it be on social media or even in an interview, that's like, "Oh, this seems a bit discretatious.
3:35
There's potential quarreling here, but I've always, I don't say always.
3:40
I've had quarrels before that were worthless, and then I've had quarrels that I thought,
3:43
like, no, this is, this is a really big deal.
3:45
Like we have to get to, get to, you know, pater here.
3:49
But Paul warns three times in 2 Timothy 2 against arguing with false teachers.
3:57
So we see it as Matt just read in verse 14 and verse 16.
4:00
But then when you go to verse 23, verse 23 says, "Having nothing to do with foolish
4:04
ignorant controversies, you know that they breed quarrels."
4:09
And I got to, I finished reading 2 Timothy 3, or 2 Timothy 2, and I was like, "Whoops!"
4:14
Dang it.
4:15
But wait, like, I was thinking to myself, like, this, this is a problem.
4:18
Like I will get into these quarrels and like, I always try to make sure I'm on the right
4:22
side of it just, you know, logically so I can win the argument.
4:25
But at the same time, I'm just always worried now where it's like, "Wait a minute.
4:30
Is this the right type of quarrel?"
4:31
And I guess where I landed is Paul is all, we see it all throughout Paul's letters.
4:38
Paul's willing to argue Paul traveled to rebuke Peter to his face, right?
4:45
Because Peter was, you know, doing things with the Judaizers and kind of, you know,
4:50
doing gospel plus type stuff.
4:52
But Paul didn't get into arguments about, like, small things.
4:56
He got into arguments about salvific things, about gospel-related things.
5:00
And if people were preaching a false gospel or a watered-down gospel or a non-gospel,
5:05
like Paul was, was throwing down, but man, I just got to say, I didn't know exactly where
5:10
to draw the line on this is something worth quarreling about.
5:14
You know, William Farrell is one of the church, you know, fathers that I like most aligned
5:18
with because he was the guy that would, was, would just get after people and then he sees
5:22
St. Nicholas, like the actual real life, St. Nicholas, like he, like in the middle of, like,
5:26
basically a church meeting, like fotted dude.
5:28
And yeah, and it's like, I, I align with that, like that, that, you know, really speaks to
5:33
my disposition as a man.
5:35
But it's like, at what point is, hey, this is a quarrel worth having and even throwing
5:39
down versus, yeah, this is stupid and sinful.
5:42
I think it's a quarrel worth having is when you know it's a brother and you know, it's
5:45
like somebody that you trust and respect and what they're saying is, is antithetical of
5:51
the gospel or antithetical, what the truth is of the Bible.
5:54
I actually thought about this a lot in regards to, you know, indaunted and some of the interviews
5:59
that you've had in the past.
6:02
That being with, uh, uh, Crispin Mayfield, like, it's like, where do we draw the line?
6:07
Like you, you've, with Christian, Crispin and both, I think Ryan George, you were like,
6:11
man, I didn't even like these books, but I'm, I'm going to give them the time I'm going
6:15
to interview them.
6:16
When do you, where do you draw the line and not give them a platform?
6:19
Um, and so it's like, I feel like if we want to get into quarrel, some stuff, let's quarrel
6:24
with somebody we actually respect and want to talk to.
6:26
But if it's like something like that, maybe it's best not to give them a platform for their
6:30
false gospels.
6:33
I can't just disagree with what you said outright, but part of me is like, you know, just like
6:38
in the last episode, that was technically a quarrel, but we were all, we were all coming
6:43
at it from an intellectually honest standpoint, fervently wanting to know the truth.
6:47
And we weren't just trying to win an argument.
6:49
And so like that, I guess would be an example of a, of a positive quarrel, but it's like,
6:54
I don't think about quarreling necessarily with people that already agree with me or
6:58
that we're on the same team, it's the people that I think are doing something that is antithetical
7:02
to scripture or heretical or something like that.
7:06
That's why I was willing to go out on limo as it will and to do an entire episode about
7:10
Andy Stanley and then Brandon as a heretic, not going to make you a bunch of friends.
7:15
And whenever you try to take down one of the largest pastors of one of the largest churches
7:19
on planet earth, but it's just like what he's doing is, is horrific.
7:24
And so it's like at what point is it worth raising your hand saying, no, this, let's
7:28
fight about it.
7:29
And that's what with Andy Stanley, Andy Stanley's different.
7:31
And the fact that Andy Stanley has a following and these, he's leading these people down
7:35
a wrong path.
7:36
Some of the guys that just mentioned, they don't have that big of a following.
7:38
So I give them more.
7:39
I think that's what, I think that's what he's getting at is like, Hey, there's going to
7:42
be quarrel some stuff.
7:43
I'm going to quarrel with Peter because of what Peter's doing with the, uh, Judaizers.
7:47
But am I going to quarrel with, you know, this other guy down the street?
7:50
No, I'm not going to quarrel with him.
7:52
Why?
7:53
I'm a platform.
7:54
I don't want him to be able to say what he wants to say and answer the questions, you
7:59
know, that I don't want him to answer.
8:00
I want him to answer, you know, so I think it's just like, who do we want to get the
8:03
platform to and who already has the platform in regards to quarrelsome?
8:07
What do you think about the difference between coral with and reason with?
8:14
I think it's easier to reason with a brother and somebody that you know, then the reason
8:19
with a stranger who's already set in their mind.
8:21
I mean, if I'm looking at it from Kyle's standpoint, I'm, I'm probably you've done your homework
8:27
on the people you're going to interview.
8:29
And so I think that's when it comes down to is like, all right, this is, I know it's
8:33
going to be a quarrelsome interview, but is this somebody I really want to give?
8:36
What's the, what's the movie about the cigarettes in tobacco and, uh, thank you for smoking.
8:41
And what does he say about the argument when he's hanging out with the sun?
8:43
I never saw the movie.
8:45
So he's sitting there talking with his son.
8:46
They're having ice cream and all that stuff.
8:47
And he's like, dad, why do you do this?
8:48
You argue and all that stuff.
8:49
But I'm not trying to win this argument.
8:52
It's not between me and him.
8:53
It's, it's, I'm trying to win them, right?
8:55
Like everybody else that's paying attention.
8:56
So in a podcast scenario, to me, it's, can you get somebody to the table to reason with
9:02
them and you're able to hopefully control yourself so that you can have a good discussion.
9:07
You can't be responsible for their actions, of course.
9:10
And then everybody else gets the benefit of the discussion.
9:12
I'm a little bit concerned when we talk about like de-platforming and whatever that word
9:16
meets today, there's some validity to that, but also it's being used in a lot of really
9:20
negative ways where people don't have a voice.
9:22
But almost lean towards try to get somebody on and have a good, reasonable discussion and
9:27
then let people draw their conclusions.
9:29
Last thing I'd say, hold on, John Lennox, a bunch of these guys, think about the ones
9:33
that you really respect and you just, you've watched their arguments with people.
9:38
When you watch the people that they're against lose themselves.
9:41
I mean, I've watched, you know, like William Lane Craig and James White, you know, like
9:49
those are two guys I respect and like to listen to go back and like to listen to them go back
9:54
and forth.
9:55
Like that stuff makes sense.
9:56
I'm talking about like who are we giving our platform to, you know, like if Kyle's going
10:01
on somebody else's platform where he can speak in the way that he speaks and then pulling
10:06
some listeners that way to come his way, that makes sense, but the other person coming on.
10:13
Why do we want to introduce that?
10:14
So the other person's followers that have a chance to come on and follow him to Kyle's
10:19
podcast because it pops up may get an opportunity to get a different perspective.
10:22
I hear you.
10:23
And that makes sense.
10:24
I can see you on that.
10:25
I just, it's just something that when I would looked at this, I was like, man, are we giving,
10:30
you know, sometimes are we giving a platform to people?
10:32
We don't want to give a platform.
10:33
You know those conversations we've had on the back end where I feel like now I'm like,
10:36
dude, don't even interview the guy.
10:38
Don't give them the platform.
10:40
I will say this.
10:41
At this point in my career doing podcasts, I've never canceled a podcast.
10:46
So this is kind of how it happens, publisher XYZ or publicist XYZ pitches me on having
10:52
someone on the show.
10:53
Hey, they've got this book coming out.
10:54
Hey, they got this documentary coming out or hey, whatever.
10:58
And so most of the time, almost all every time I will accept the interview, put it on
11:03
the calendar before I prep the episode.
11:06
There's enough.
11:07
It's like watching a trailer for a movie that you haven't seen yet.
11:10
It's like, I'm going to watch that movie.
11:12
Why?
11:13
Because the trailer was interesting enough.
11:14
And then you get to evaluate the movie after you've seen it.
11:17
And so for me, only a handful of times I can count on one hand.
11:20
I said, yes, the interview.
11:21
I was excited about it.
11:22
Read the book.
11:23
And I was like, Oh, no, like you mentioned two of them, I'll leave the other ones nameless.
11:28
But the conundrum you're left with is the exact conundrum you're bringing up, Ryan,
11:34
which is don't want to platform this person's ideas because what you don't want to do is
11:39
to pretend like somebody is walking into a friendly environment and then try to smash
11:46
them.
11:47
Oh, of course.
11:48
Okay.
11:49
And so I as a podcaster and someone that just wants to be an upstanding moral individual,
11:53
I don't ever want someone to feel like they've been attacked.
11:56
Now we might in our conversation get to a place where it's like, we vehemently disagree
11:59
with this, but it's like, how do you handle that?
12:01
Even disagreement?
12:02
You cry and scream and point fingers and call names.
12:05
Do you smile to their face only to flame them later on your personal blog or on your
12:09
Twitter page or something like that?
12:10
Yeah.
12:11
Again, I control me.
12:12
They control themselves.
12:14
But I guess where I've landed on it, Ryan is I try to see if we're on the same team.
12:22
And if I can determine that we're not really on the same team and by that, I mean team
12:25
Jesus or team pro life or team, you know, whatever, if I surmise that we're really not
12:32
playing on the same team, I'm going to turn the heat up a little bit more, but it's almost
12:36
like what Matt Walsh did with the, what is a woman?
12:40
He just asked questions and let them answer and it's like, he's letting these people have
12:47
their decisions.
12:48
Sure.
12:49
That's the funniest thing about the left hating that documentary is it's like, he asked you
12:52
what your opinions were on these subjects and he let you answer and he didn't edit your
12:57
answer to make you look like a fool.
12:59
You just are a fool saying foolish things.
13:02
And so for me, it's like, I've had some interviews where it's like, I could have gone down some
13:06
rabbit trails to try and really destroy this person.
13:09
I have the mental ability and the moxie to embarrass people and to catch them in a lie or
13:15
to do something like that.
13:17
But the only times where I've really kind of taken the gloves off while smiling would
13:21
be when I've done debates, like on the unbelievable podcast with Jess and Briarly.
13:25
But those people, it's like, I kind of look at that, like, I'm going to slowly drag you
13:29
into deep water and drown you, like, but I'm not going to do it by screaming my point.
13:34
Yeah.
13:35
Like, I shouldn't have to scream my point to make you look foolish if I'm in the right.
13:38
You should also have grace, you know, and Paul talks about that a lot and not only with
13:44
just believers and brothers, but with, you know, culture within itself or the world within
13:48
itself.
13:49
You know, these hard, hard-headed people that don't want to listen and don't understand,
13:54
it's just, I don't know, I just feel like when I read this, it's like, well, how am
13:58
I platforming?
13:59
You know, what are we platforming?
14:01
Like, who do I want to give?
14:03
And if you, if you're really committed to your position, and I think, you know, it's
14:07
kind of like they say the Bible can defend itself.
14:10
Of course.
14:11
Right.
14:12
You can present truth to maybe people that aren't aligned with it in the right way and
14:15
defend itself.
14:16
Yeah.
14:17
I would say that science has shown from a negotiation standpoint that if you're in an
14:21
argument, nobody's wanting, that's a cliche, but it's true.
14:25
You have to keep it at that point where you can have a discussion.
14:27
Yeah.
14:28
If there's no discussion to be had, then you just have to continue to lay down the truth.
14:30
The reason I bring those guys up to is just, you know, if we get into the next bit in chapter
14:35
three, it's just like, we see what our culture has turned into nowadays in regards to what
14:41
are we idolizing?
14:42
We're idolizing self, we're idolizing, you know, you know, this goddess for you type
14:46
of fame, which is sounds great in itself, but we're not idolizing God.
14:50
We're idolizing ourselves.
14:52
And those guys just really pushed self idolization even in their interviews.
14:55
And it's just like, man, you know, it's like, what kind of platform are we, you know, in
15:01
today's age?
15:02
You know, this isn't a discussion between, you know, William Lane Craig and, and, and
15:05
James White.
15:06
So go ahead, Matt.
15:07
Well, I was going to say it seems like, I mean, this is a pastoral epistle, right?
15:11
So he's writing to Timothy who he's written to before.
15:15
And this language kind of seems like it goes back and cross references some of the language
15:21
from his first letter to Timothy with how overseers are supposed to conduct themselves.
15:28
And you're supposed to conduct yourself in a way that even outsiders would respect you.
15:33
And so one of the ways that I read this is quarreling.
15:36
Obviously, as you pointed out, Zach was, it's not the same as reasoning.
15:40
It's a, it's a more, you know, uptick in the temperature of a conversation.
15:44
It's more combative.
15:46
And when he talks about which does no good, but only ruins the hearers, it's, I think
15:52
it's important to define the hearers are the hearers, your, your flock.
15:57
And if your flock is hearing you quarrel and be someone who wouldn't be respected outside
16:03
the church, the Greek word use theirs is where we get for ruin is where we get catastrophe.
16:09
And so it is catastrophic for those hearers to see that pastor who is supposed to be
16:16
even keel, stable, steady, I'm going to reason if they see that quarrelsome attitude, that
16:24
is to their detriment and to their catastrophic ruin.
16:29
And so I think this is also a call to say, Hey, you've got to conduct yourself in a way.
16:33
Again, like I said in my previous letter that even outsiders would pour respect upon you.
16:39
So it's also the direction of your heart.
16:41
So I've, I've had this, this debate with people before, because there are people prominent
16:45
pastors that say, if you do yoga, you are performing a satanic ritual, and there's no
16:50
two ways about it.
16:52
And that always struck me as, as strange because it's like there are certain poses in yoga
16:58
that are really good for stretching certain parts of your body.
17:02
And it's one thing to do a yoga routine and to try and tap into some sort of Eastern mystic
17:09
tradition or nature or something like that.
17:12
But someone could do the exact, someone like me could do the exact same yoga routine because
17:15
man, my hip flexors are pretty tight.
17:17
I'm going to do this routine real quick.
17:18
And so I think the direction of your heart is important specifically when you go into
17:22
a debate as well.
17:23
So let's say you have a debate, whether on a podcast or otherwise, just in your personal
17:27
life, and it devolves, like it devolves and becomes kind of bitter and Matt, the temperature
17:33
goes even higher and higher and higher, you control you.
17:36
So if they come up and then you try to go over the top of them and then they try to go over
17:40
the top of you and then not enough, now we're calling names, now we're taking personal
17:43
pot shots because y'all disagree on what's the greatest movie franchise of all time.
17:47
Like those are the things where it's like the, the direction of your heart should dictate
17:52
where the conversation goes.
17:53
But if it flies off the handle, like it can only be on you if you ate it in that.
17:59
So if I as someone that's pro abortion, like, Hey, why do you think it's okay to kill a living
18:05
human being that's in someone's womb?
18:06
If they fly off the handle and go crazy, someone will be like, well, yeah, you shouldn't have
18:09
asked them that question.
18:10
It's like, no, no, I'm responsible for how I asked the question.
18:13
They're responsible for how they responded to it.
18:14
Like I can't take responsibility for both sides of that coin or both sides of that equation.
18:19
And that's another thing.
18:20
If you look at second Timothy as one letter, all of these things correlate with one another,
18:25
because right when you get in, we'll just go and transfer into chapter three now, we see
18:30
some of these ways of how we're to comport ourselves in the first six verses of chapter
18:35
three.
18:36
So Zach, how about you read a second Timothy three and go ahead and read the first six
18:40
verses, but understand this that in the last days there will come times of difficulty for
18:47
people will be lovers of self lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their
18:52
parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasible, slanderous without self control, brutal, not
19:00
loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure, rather than
19:05
lovers of good, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power, avoid such people,
19:12
or among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burden with sins and
19:18
led astray by various passions, go ahead and read some always learning and never able to
19:24
arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
19:27
So there's a lot there. So he's talking about in verse one, the last days, you know, depending
19:31
upon your theology, with that even came up with our pastor this morning. In reference
19:36
to the last days, a lot of people believe, okay, Jesus came once and he's going to be
19:40
coming back again. And so the in between time is the last days. Okay, so that's basically
19:45
what they're talking about, but going into verse five, having the appearance, having
19:49
the appearance of godliness. Now we're going to get into this when we talk in verse four,
19:55
at the beginning, or sorry, chapter four, when we talk about, you know, and they want their
19:59
ears tickled and those types of things. So we'll give a little primer for that type
20:03
of conversation right now. There are a lot of people that have the appearance of godliness.
20:09
They're pastors, they're social media influencers, they're athletes, they're these types of
20:14
people that they have attached or we have attached the word Christian to them into their lives.
20:21
And whether they have the fruit or not or whatever, but they have the appearance of godliness.
20:26
But actually they are lovers of self lovers of money, proud air get abusive dot, dot,
20:31
dot everything that was described starting in verse two. And we're in such a dangerous
20:36
time because I read through the first five verses and I literally wrote down what time
20:39
is not like this, where people are not acting this way. Like, is there a special version
20:44
of that in 2023 that we're not, you know, we weren't privy to as a human being a thousand
20:49
years ago or so. But that was a good thing for me to kind of look at to where it's like,
20:54
man, it's just another good reminder to be like, watch out for people that appear to
20:59
be good for ministries that appear to be good. And I tell people all the time, treat undaunted
21:04
life as in that category as well. Because if we, if you started listening to us in year
21:10
two of our podcast and then we get led astray and year six, that doesn't mean our entire
21:13
backlog is not worth worth your time or can't teach you anything. But it's like, you should
21:18
always test ministries, pastors, elders, individuals to the scriptures and be like, are you aligning
21:24
with this? Because yes, I think 80 Stanley is now saying and teaching heretical things.
21:29
That doesn't mean I didn't learn anything from his book vision, visioneering that he
21:32
released like 12 years ago, where the guardrails is one of the most meaningful and impactful
21:38
teaching series. Great series. Like that's, that's a great series. I think, and I probably
21:43
sound like a broken record on this, but this to me just reeks of dive into the word. Yeah,
21:51
be in the scripture, know the scripture. Because if you don't, you, you can't tell if someone
21:58
is ungodly, full of full of conceit, you don't know if you're not like you said, you
22:03
got to test against the scriptures, you've got it, you've got to know the word of God to
22:07
be able to see that. I mean, I agree. I mean, we, we've been through personally, like a
22:16
church that we were, we were involved with for like six years and it started to change.
22:22
We weren't, we weren't built into the word and the Bible. And we noticed that the pastor
22:29
is bringing people in to speak. And then we start looking at these people and reading
22:33
what they've written. And all of a sudden you're like, well, this is, this seems antithetical
22:38
of the gospel. This is antithetical of what the Bible reaches. And it was, it was a hard
22:42
time that my wife and I had to go through. But was there good times in that time? Did
22:45
we learn a lot from that pastor? Yeah, we learned some things. It's just like Russell
22:49
Moore, somebody I, I still, you know, deeply have affection for, you know, though I felt
22:55
he's moved away. But I mean, I did a teaching on complimentarianism and the three fourths
23:00
of it was Russell Moore in 2006, not the Russell Moore from this table, not the Russell Moore
23:05
Russell Russell Moore. So I mean, it's just like Mark Driscoll. You can't throw Mark Driscoll
23:11
out with the bathwater. You know, like, yeah, you know, we kind of understand that these
23:15
pastors are human. They're not going to be perfect. But we do expect our pastors or our
23:21
people who are who are out there to have some sort of being a lover of God.
23:25
God, God expects that. Yeah. And she has a pretty hard line and a pretty high measuring
23:31
statement. And he does. And he knows like, you know, it's like they said, those who are
23:35
preaching will be judged more harshly. And he knows what hey, he knows like, we're, we're
23:40
guys that are sitting here in this group and we're, we're not trying to lead people astray,
23:43
we're, we're trying to get through this. You know, he knows that if we may say the wrong
23:47
thing, he's not judging us the way that he knows a pastor who knows the right thing,
23:52
the moving it, moving it into a direction that it shouldn't go in. You know, and that's
23:56
what I think, you know, we're seeing here in, in Timothy's time is because of the persecution
24:01
happening, Christians, people are moving the gospel to a different point.
24:06
When people are susceptible to shiny things, to things that seem positive. And we see that
24:12
in verse six, because that's kind of like, wait, do you just drop a bomb on women? Like
24:16
that seems super rude. For among them are those who creep into households and capture
24:19
weak women, burden with sins and led astray by various passions. I think it was in first
24:25
Timothy, I was trying to find it. But we've talked about this before about how women perhaps
24:31
could be more susceptible to bad teaching. And before you get mad at me for saying that,
24:36
at least the children's who happens to be a gangster and is a female as far as I know,
24:41
she still identifies as that she has talked about that publicly. And she said it on my
24:45
show. Do you have it, Matt?
24:46
It's first Timothy chapter two, verse 13 and 14. Would you mind reading that? It's for
24:50
Adam was formed first, then Eve and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and
24:56
became a transgressor. And then 15, yet she will be safe through childbearing. And if
25:01
they continue in faith, 11 holiness with self control. But that's an important thing here
25:08
that we're all gullible to a degree, but we have two admonitions and two separate letters
25:12
from Paul that, look, women might be especially susceptible to some of these things. And then
25:18
when you back up, you take what you just read, Matt, we take what we just read, and we're
25:22
looking at here in second Timothy three, and you think about some of these enormous ministries
25:28
that have grown. When you think about Christian bookstores, when you think about the consumers
25:33
of Christian media, it is a well known fact by people within Christendom, the overwhelming
25:39
majority of the sales at Christian bookstores are women, the overwhelming majority of books
25:43
that are bought by Christian authors through Christian publishing houses are women. Why
25:49
aren't there more men's books in the Christian sphere? Because even Christian publishers won't
25:54
put them out. Why? Because men don't read the women read the people that buy a while at
25:58
heart. It's the women buying it for their husband type of a situation. And so the same
26:03
thing is like that across the board. And then you see these effeminate pastors get these
26:08
huge followings, and they're getting followings by a lot of emotive women and more effeminate
26:14
emotive men. And all the while, the strong, virile, more traditionally masculine men are
26:21
being pushed to the outside, push the outside, push the outside. And then you see these enormous
26:26
pastors with these huge followings. And they've got a bunch of weak minded women that they
26:32
have almost romanced into their version of the gospel or their version of theology. I
26:38
know some of the sounds a little bit rough, but would you all agree with that assessment?
26:42
No, there's there's truth in that. I mean, look at Christian music contemporary Christian
26:46
music. If you ever listened to one of those stations, it's 90% of the people listening
26:51
are our housewives, all the people that call in our housewives. And that's a thing like
26:57
my wife would probably agree with you because I just talked about that time that we had
27:02
that hard time within the church. We had some deep discussions on where she was like, you
27:06
know, he's our pastor, we have to submit to him. And we have to listen. And I'm like,
27:10
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not submitting to this guy one, he's not even biblical. You
27:14
know, but I think that there's a there's a thing there where women hear what they want
27:19
to hear. And it's not just women men can do it too. But men are not paying attention.
27:26
It's just like, look at the garden. Let's look back at the garden. And Eve was tempted
27:30
by this was lied to by the serpent and followed through. And then Adam just went ahead and
27:34
did it too, you know, because he was just following his wife's lead. He wasn't taking
27:38
care of his household. And so when you're not taking care of your household, this is
27:41
what he's talking about here, you know, women are at home at this time. And these these
27:46
heretics that are coming up spreading a false gospel are coming to these women while they're
27:50
at home and their husbands are gone. So they can easily bring them in with whatever they're
27:56
wanting to teach. And I feel like that's the problem that we have nowadays, like you
27:59
brought up, you know, women bookstores. It's like women and books and all this self help
28:06
stuff. And it's all about love of self. And we're living in a day and age where we're
28:10
just like built on self esteem. And and how to build up a self esteem and have self esteem
28:17
where it's it's coming. It's just it's coming out of the everywhere. And it's like sometimes
28:23
maybe we need to look at where do we find our self esteem, but we find our self esteem
28:26
and what we're doing, or do we find our self esteem and what God's doing through us.
28:31
I don't know. It's hard for me. I'll read this note. It says the false religious leaders
28:35
take advantage of the problems people have and promise them quick and easy solutions.
28:40
They creep into and soon control people's lives. It's not long before these leaders grab
28:44
their followers loyalty, money and service. And their converts are worse off than than
28:49
they were before. They still have their problems, but they have been dumped on thinking that
28:53
all as well. So I definitely think that everybody is capable of behaving like this, whether
28:59
you're a man, a woman. And I also probably think there's some context back then with
29:04
women's positions, especially if they were single or whatever, starting to rely on these
29:09
people. But it's sticky, I guess in some way. And I think that's an example of just, you
29:15
know, the Bible says some pretty cutting things. And it says what it says, it's not up to us
29:19
to make them sound easier or more acceptable and pleasing to our audience as well. Matt,
29:27
if you would mind hitting versus 10 through 13, second Timothy three, you got it. You,
29:35
however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my
29:41
love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happen to me at Antioch, at
29:48
Iconium, and at Listra, which is how I was trying to read through those and say I'm right,
29:57
which persecutions I endured yet from them all, the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who
30:02
desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted while evil people and imposters
30:08
will go on from bad to worse deceiving and being deceived.
30:11
So a few things here, Listra, Listra, how are you saying it? That's where Paul was left
30:16
for dead. I believe he was stoned and left for dead. Okay. So we just read down there
30:21
like, oh, yeah, Antioch, Iconium and Listra. Things happened at all those places. He encapsulated
30:28
it in a phrase, but some pretty serious things happened there. So in verse 12, when he says,
30:35
all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. I don't know that
30:41
we believe that. I don't know in our modernity. I think this came up last week of the week
30:46
before where persecution, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, with persecution in
30:52
a modern day in America is, well, this person left a angry comment on my Facebook post where
30:57
I posted a scripture. I'm under persecution. And it's like, yeah, you're losing your life
31:03
in North Korea. They find you with a Bible. It's a little different. Chinese Communist
31:08
Party is treating people with not a whole lot of grace. If they catch you with the running
31:12
an underground church, that type of thing. And so a lot of people will read verse 12 and
31:18
say that we will be persecuted. And they will think to themselves, not me or someone else
31:23
is going to fight that fight for me. Whereas I read something like that and think, okay,
31:27
so let's go to our loins. Like, let's get ready for this fight. Because if it hasn't
31:32
happened yet, it is coming. Yeah. And if you're not feeling persecution, maybe it's because
31:38
no one thinks you're a Christian. They think you're too much like them. And so when these
31:41
churches, especially these mega churches that are ran by CEO pastors, these are churches
31:46
that are desperately trying to be like the culture that hates them. And so when a non-believer
31:51
walks in to this seeker sensitive church and it feels oddly like the last several concerts
31:56
they went to and the last few TED talks that they've watched, what is the differentiator
32:01
that brings them to Christ? And again, you know, God's going to do what he's going to
32:05
do. And you know, they're going to find him everywhere, right? In the right church, quote
32:10
unquote the wrong church, quote unquote. But it's it's an odd tactic, I will say, to where
32:15
they're doing their their level best to make sure that their churches as much like the
32:20
world as possible when it's the world that we're trying to differentiate from. It doesn't
32:25
make sense to me. Yeah, I think a modern day persecution outside of just, you know, China
32:33
and North Korea. Who's the guy that wrote, seeking Allah, finding Jesus? Beal correction.
32:41
Beal correction. He he has another book. I don't think it's that book. I think it's
32:43
a I think it's another one of his books. No God, but one. Maybe he tells a story of I
32:48
think it's an Iranian girl whose brother was like he worked for she was she was a Muslim
32:54
and her brother worked for the police. And his her brother was so devout that for him
33:02
to find out that she had become a Christian, he would carry out the execution himself.
33:07
That's how devout he was. That's persecution. I guess honor killing. Yeah. Or you hear
33:13
about these our church supports a tribal group. What? Go ahead. Don't ask. What? I
33:21
thought the Donu, the one that's in Mexico or the one? No, the Donu. That was a Donu
33:25
people. I said that over. These people are getting kicked out of their village for becoming
33:30
Christians. Yeah. And think about that. So I've I've lived under some pretty tyrannical
33:35
H O A's. You know, these people that like, Oh, your grass is half an inch above the acceptable
33:41
levels. We went ahead and cut it for you and sent you a bill. Like, you know, we've been
33:45
there, but to become a Christian and then lose your home. Like we don't even have a category
33:51
for that in America now. I'm with you on that. I agree. You don't sound like you. Well,
33:57
it's kind of like Jocco would say, like, you know, what you're having a great day compared
34:01
to whoever in World War two that had this problem on the beach. Normally I get it. Totally
34:04
understand that. But I'm still having to confront the reality I live in. And just like I wouldn't
34:09
go to the Donu people and try to expect them to live up to all the expectations that I'm
34:13
expected to live up to professionally and from a family standpoint, we have different pressure
34:18
points. So like, there's this great video. I sent it to some of you guys, but Alistair
34:23
Begg has a video about second Timothy, the summary in the last like 15 minutes are really
34:27
good. And he gets into a point where he says, you know, it's like walk around a corporate
34:30
environment, think about going up to, you know, a high level meeting with leaders of
34:35
a, of this organization. And they represent a global group of people with all sorts of
34:41
different beliefs. You know, how do you feel about afterlife or whatever? Are you spiritual?
34:45
Yeah, I'm spiritual. Well, that's great. You know, are you religious? Yeah, I'm religious.
34:49
You know, yeah, I think God saves us. If you walk in there and say, I believe that you,
34:54
the only way to get saved is through Jesus Christ period. And that's the only way you
35:00
are guaranteed to be in hot water in some way or another. And that's going to be very real
35:06
to you and your circumstances and could have really serious impacts. And I think in the
35:12
United States of America, which he also references, this was like 10 years ago when he said it,
35:15
he referenced the UK and where they were at. And he said, the US is going to be here in
35:18
10 years. It's basically where we're at now. Yeah. So I don't think we should be little
35:23
at the circumstances. And I think they're getting more and more serious as time goes.
35:26
And it's going to really separate the week from the chaff in many ways. I think I think
35:31
2020 and COVID kind of kind of did some of that. You can't go to church. Well, the faithful
35:37
went to church and those who weren't faithful, a lot of them still aren't going to church.
35:42
Canada Canada is a great example. I mean, Kyle's interviewed a few people that have gone through
35:47
some stuff there. Historically, the church has always been persecuted first monetarily
35:52
where you can't, you know, you can't be if you're in a guild, if you're in a, well, let's
35:56
say a carpenter guild and you're a Christian. Well, if you don't sacrifice to the gods that
36:03
we believe in in our guild, and we're going to make sure that you don't have work, that's
36:06
like the first round of persecution for Christians historically is it's always monetary, right?
36:11
So I think there's some of that because like even in a corporate setting, like if you go
36:14
in and you proclaim truth and you speak the gospel, like it may not be overt, but you're
36:21
probably going to have some consequences. Whether you, whether the reasons for the consequences,
36:26
are you trying to share the gospel or like seen or not? The anonymous HR hotline. Yeah,
36:33
I think I think just stepping out to your point, Zach, just stepping out in faith and proclaiming
36:38
the gospel and proclaiming the truth can set us on a path in the world for some persecution
36:47
and some, some of folly, I guess. Well, and also verse 13, while evil people and imposters
36:52
will go on from bad to worst, deceiving and being deceived. The MacArthur commentary talked
36:58
about how there are dangerous movements of false teachers and how those will become increasingly
37:03
more successful until Christ returns. And so I know that we sit around and we almost like
37:10
hope that any Stanley falls and that Stephen Furtick falls and that, you know, name your
37:16
favorite, heretical pastor that's teaching nonsense, but basically have biblical guarantee
37:22
that that's the exact opposite that's going to happen. Their churches are going to get
37:26
bigger. Their podcast downloads are going to explode. They're going to sell more books
37:30
and just think about it. Their entire publishing house is that we will not name here that the
37:35
level of not just writing, like just straight up authorship, but the level of biblical depth
37:43
of some of these Christian publishing houses in the books they're putting out, it's like,
37:46
this is nonsense. Like this, this isn't, this is a self help book with it. This is a Christian
37:52
coffee cup in 200 page book form, right?
37:55
It's not even a Christian coffee cup. It's like, it's sprinkled with Christian verses
38:00
and a worldly coffee cup. I mean, I feel like what we're seeing now, nowadays in the Christian
38:07
church is they look at God's moral law. They look at God's design as draconian. And what
38:12
they want to do and I've seen it said many times is if we remain like this will be irrelevant
38:18
to the youngest generation, it is not about truth. Now it's about, well, how do we reach
38:24
these young people? So we need to compromise. If we don't compromise, then we're going to
38:29
lose people. And it's like, you, you really think God's gospel needs your help, you know,
38:34
like, just go out there and teach it. That's what that's what Paul's saying here. Paul
38:38
is saying to Timothy, go out and teach the truth. He's steadfast in the truth. Earlier
38:42
in his letter, Paul talks about in a great house, and he talks about honorable vessels
38:48
and dishonorable vessels. Honorable vessels are the gold in the silver. You, you leave those
38:54
with the gold in the silver, right? The dishonorable vessels, I think a lot of scholars say that
38:59
those are like the trash, you take the trash out with those vessels or wood, they're junk,
39:03
they're, they're dirty. You don't leave, you don't put those in the same. Like, you don't,
39:09
you don't store those with the, with the valuable ones. And I think talking about these false
39:16
teachings, those are obviously the dishonorable vessels. But if you put gold in silver and
39:24
it starts hanging out with the dirty garbage bins, that gold in silver gets tarnished and
39:32
it starts to look like garbage. And I think that's why it's so important. That's why you'd
39:36
like is harping on it is because he wants, he is, he is encouraging and calling Timothy
39:42
to be an honorable vessel in the house of God. Don't be a dishonorable trash bin, because
39:48
if you hang out with those people, you're going to become one. And I think that's a great,
39:54
that's a great picture of what that can do to a church. It can, it can completely like
40:00
catastrophic ruin back to chapter two. It can be the ruin of a church.
40:06
Well, I'd say one more thing, just draw this back for a second. Like from a church perspective
40:10
and then what I mentioned with corporate, I'm definitely not saying don't be bold. Don't
40:15
share your faith and all that. What I think what I see is a little bit of I want to feel
40:20
comfortable to do that. And I think everybody has a right to, but I think it's easy to see
40:24
circumstances where that would be difficult. And I just think we have to figure out the
40:29
best way to navigate that without compromising yourself. And I recognize it's hard.
40:33
I was going to say one more thing about being like deceiving and being deceived. I think
40:38
our duty as faithful Christians is to pray for false teachers. The same way we would
40:45
pray for our own kids salvation because they are deceiving. They are also being deceived.
40:53
And while there's some culpability there, they are believing a deception as well. And
40:58
so praying for their salvation and praying that their eyes would be opened is something
41:03
that we can miss very easily. And we can have contempt for those people. And I'm guilty
41:08
of this for sure. And some of you have heard me talk about some of these guys and I'm like
41:13
I have contempt for so because it makes you angry. Like if someone, if someone is speaking
41:19
untruths about your heavenly Father who created the universe, like you want to speak out against
41:24
that. But I think we are also, we are called to pray for those people too.
41:28
It helps you too. I'm not going to be specific, but there's some people that we've had some
41:32
challenges with and it's a very diplomatic way. At night, like with my son, we go through
41:39
prayer list and I'll specifically include some, some people, whether it's people that
41:43
he's dealing with at school maybe or that, you know, he's aware of that I'm dealing with
41:46
just as an example of, Hey, let's pray for this. And what I've noticed is I do that also
41:51
is that I think it, it adjusts my perspective of the problem and of that person to an extent.
41:57
And also it's pray for them not about them. Yes. And I would love to be the one that came
42:04
up with that. But drum roll, please, Joby Martin taught me that in a personal conversation.
42:09
We were talking about a specific person that I was having some issues with. And they're
42:12
like, have you prayed for them or about them? He said in his South Carolina redneck draw
42:17
and I was just like, Dad, God, shut up. Are you gossiping to God? Yeah, are you praying
42:22
for some? Yeah, I really think you should God, I just want to pray for this person and their
42:26
horrible ability at being good and how they're not like me. Like, yes, it's like, what is
42:30
again, what's the posture of your prayer? Are you doing yoga with your ponytail hooked
42:34
up to the tree, trying to get power from the avatar matrix universe? Or are you just doing
42:38
it to snap a little bit? That's why you said yoga was good. No, no, no, I'm saying it's the
42:43
positioning of your heart. Like, again, ponytail hooked up to the tree bad, you know, doing
42:48
it because you want to be, you know, better at sports, not getting injured, you know,
42:51
good. But the whole thing is, is we shouldn't take even that commentary from a car through
42:56
that, Hey, these, these false teachers are going to become more successful over time.
42:59
We shouldn't take that pessimistically. I'm saying that to a pessimist myself to be
43:03
like, well, we're just going to throw our hands up and, you know, wait for the rapture
43:06
or wait until we're survived. It's like, no, no, no, it means we're going to have to sharpen
43:10
our swords more. We're going to have to be ready. We're not going to have to, we need
43:13
to make sure we don't get caught flat footed, especially when the culture seems to be degrading,
43:17
because there's current currently things happening in culture that were unthinkable years ago.
43:23
And I remember good buddies of mine. A few years ago, me talking about, Hey, buddy, the
43:26
next domino to fall is pedophilia. There's going to be a normalization of pedophilia,
43:30
because if you can choose your own gender as a child as a minor, why can you not choose
43:34
your own sexual partner? Also, if you can identify as something that doesn't align with
43:38
truth or reality, why can't you identify as a different age, be that older or younger?
43:43
45 year old man wants to have a sexual relationship with 12 year old girl, 45 year old just identifies
43:48
as a 12 year old boy, you know, Bob's your uncle, boom, there you go. You've got a sexual
43:53
relationship. And according to the logic of the left or the logic of our depraved culture,
43:57
that's an okay and acceptable thing. That doesn't mean that we just keep throwing our
44:01
hands up and continuing backing up. It's like, there are fights worth fighting and the battles
44:06
are just going to be a little bit more difficult. I think the picture of girding your loins
44:11
and being prepared, I think it's helpful to understand like what that means. Because
44:14
you were a robe. And if your robe is down, if a lion jumps out and she starts chasing,
44:21
you can't run, right? You're going to trip. And so girding your loins is a process of
44:27
hiking up your robe and tying it in a way that kind of looks like shorts. So you're
44:32
ready for whatever. And to your point, Kyle, like beat like being in a stance or a posture
44:39
that's ready to combat is what the call is. And if you're robes down, man, you're going
44:46
to trip and you're going to get eaten alive. And part of its preparedness, I tell people
44:49
all the time, if you're concealed carrier and you've never had the conversation with
44:53
yourself about whether or not you could end a life, then you probably don't need to be
44:58
carrying that firearm. Because if you're in that life or death situation, and now you're
45:02
trying to decide whether or not you're going to point that particular weapon at somebody
45:06
and pull the trigger and potentially in their life, it's too late. It is way, way, way too
45:10
late. That's a conversation you'd have with yourself beforehand. But as we wrap up our
45:14
discussion of second Timothy three, Ryan, can you read 16 and 17 last two verses?
45:19
All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching for reproof for correction and
45:24
for training and righteousness that the man of God may be completely equipped for every
45:30
good word. So, excuse me, if you've ever heard that scripture is God breathed, this is this
45:36
is where we get that. So all scripture is breathed out by God. Now, go ahead, if you
45:40
go to a church, or you're looking at finding a church and you go to doctrines, you don't
45:45
see that in there, run. So let's talk a little bit about that. So for giving all the puns,
45:52
I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. Because we all know about circular reasoning.
45:57
So I think we mentioned what is a woman either earlier on this one or last week, where, you
46:03
know, people are like, you know, Matt, I'll say, what is a woman? A woman is someone who
46:06
identifies as a woman. And then he's like, well, what is that there? It's just a woman.
46:09
And it's like, you're using the definition in the word that you're trying to define,
46:14
you're using the word that you're trying to find in the definition for that word. Like
46:17
that's not how this works. When you hear people say things like, let the Bible read
46:22
the Bible. Or the Bible is true because the Bible says that it's true. The Bible is in
46:29
errant, not to be confused with inherent, but the Bible is in errant. Why? Because the
46:35
Bible says so. That is a stumbling block for a lot of people. Okay. Now you were the oldest
46:44
Zach before you became a Christian of all this. So you're even steeped in logic and reasoning
46:48
and Western thought and all these different things. But I even remember not growing up
46:53
in church, but kind of being part of this whole thing, since I was in high school, that
46:57
just not striking me as a good enough argument. As we talked about last week, doesn't matter
47:03
if the arguments better or if logic says that this is true and that's not true, it matters
47:07
what is true. But when people talk about that and you're trying to convince or argument
47:13
or provide or apologetic to a non Christian as to why we should believe the Bible in your
47:17
argument is because the Bible says so they could very easily say, well, I believe the
47:21
Quran because the Quran says so, or I believe this random writing by Elrond Hubbard about
47:29
Scientology because he says he says it's true. It's like, I think people really struggle
47:35
with that. And if we're being honest, I know most Christians would never admit this out
47:39
loud. They struggle with this too. It's in errant. Well, wait, wait a minute. Like it
47:43
doesn't even make sense that somebody could be swallowed by a whale and live inside them.
47:47
Like the whole world that God set up would make that not a possibility. So it's a violation
47:52
of all the rules of nature. And you know, if there's one historical fact that was written
47:58
down improperly in the Bible, then we can just throw out the entire Bible out of, you
48:03
know, this person said there was two angels at the tomb. And this person said there was
48:06
one angel at the tomb, like, how can we know and trust? Again, I'm playing devil's advocate
48:11
here. But again, guys, this is a problem for a lot of people. Let the Bible read the Bible.
48:16
It's hard. Let me go in real quick. I don't want to go to, but now you go ahead, man.
48:19
So first, first thing for me would just be, we've talked about this before, but when
48:23
it comes to anything that seems like a crazy miracle in the Bible that's difficult to get
48:28
your head around Jonah, fish, you know, whatever, I think we all have to go back to the fact
48:33
that we're all here. We all exist and we all exist from nothing. And that's been kind of
48:38
objectively shown scientifically that everything came from nothing. So by definition, everybody
48:44
believes in a miracle, at least one. And if one miracle is possible, then any other miracle
48:48
is possible. Thank you, Frank Turk for that. That was, that was big for me. But I think
48:53
it comes back to what I've heard you say, which is if Jesus actually rose from the grave and
48:59
he validated this, that's what it comes back to for me. So I would always point somebody
49:04
back to the argument for Christ rising from the grave and the evidence surrounding that.
49:09
And then he validated the rest of the Bible. I've talked to people recently who said, yeah,
49:11
I think that's true, but I don't believe anything Paul said. I know you guys have probably dealt
49:16
with that before, but this is the first time I'd been confronted with that. And I had to
49:19
think about it for a second, I go, well, you know, Christ, you know, basically validated
49:24
all of his apostles. And he says that he appeared to Paul, but then the apostles that were with
49:28
Christ in person also validated Paul. So by definition, if you believe that Christ rose
49:32
from the dead, then it's validated.
49:34
And I'd also ask him, does he like Luke, the book of Luke? Because it's basically Paul's
49:40
version of the gospel. So I agree with you 100%. I mean, I've had that, you know, I've
49:47
sat there and thought, do I really believe that a 33 year old Jewish carpenter died
49:53
on a cross after being scourged and rose three days later? Like, if I can believe that and
49:59
have my faith in that, everything else in the Bible is true to me. It's like, I can,
50:07
I can't even explain that, you know, but I can explain it. We saw a man what three years
50:13
ago that got swallowed by a whale or a fish and lived in there for like two days. So we
50:17
know that Jonah could definitely have happened. Wait, what? Yeah, there's a guy. Oh, look
50:22
up. Yeah, I remember seeing a video of kayakers being had a whale, like basically grab them
50:30
and then spit them out like a second later. Yeah, the very unironic title of the article
50:35
was modern day Jonah swallowed by a whale. Okay, I'm pretty sure that's been swallowed
50:40
by whale by Cape Cod, modern diver 2021. I'm kind of well. Yeah. So what kind of whale?
50:48
Is it a cool whale, at least? Why do we even get in the wait? Wait, you're saying that
50:54
it's wild a minute. He was in there for you said two days. I think it was two days. Quite
50:58
not quite three. This is this is important because if it was like two minutes, then that's
51:02
a little different. Maybe maybe it was too, man. So I'm pretty sure it was it was it was
51:07
it was that doesn't that doesn't ruin your point, but it just was shocking that somebody
51:12
lived in a whale. I think I was completely inside. It was completely black. That's what
51:16
he said. I think obviously the resurrection story and people having eyewitness accounts
51:24
of Jesus is very powerful. But I think there's other there's other ways to know that the
51:30
Bible is breathed out by God. Just looking at prophecies or telling of Christ and you
51:39
know, like even going back, Genesis three, like prophesying a savior and Christ being
51:48
present in the entire Old Testament, hundreds, thousands of years before his earthly birth.
51:57
So there's there's plenty of examples to that push back on that though. I mean, I'm sure
52:02
they would have to go outside the Bible to prove that they had copies of the Bible that
52:06
predated Christ. So you can say that it wasn't rewritten afterwards. And you the thing is
52:10
you'll find that to be true. Yeah. Yeah, which is incredible for sure. Yeah. I mean, yes,
52:18
you would have to do that. But yes, like you said, that's like Isaiah, you know, the fact
52:21
that they found that the Dead Sea Scrolls, I forget how many like a thousand years before
52:25
Christ, which which has Isaiah 53 and everything else contained in it was incredible. There
52:31
was I was in Sunday school a couple weeks ago and there was I want to say as an Old Testament
52:36
book that the earliest copy that we had until the Dead Sea Scrolls was written after the
52:44
Quran. And so Muslims had that Trump card for years. Our religion is older than yours.
52:52
You guys just made it up after we set it. And then the Dead Sea Scrolls, God's like, wait
52:57
a second. Here it is. Dead Sea Scrolls pop up. It's like, OK, boom. Now this is this predates
53:04
you, your guys's stuff by even longer. And so I heard a little clip the other day and
53:10
it just said, they were talking to a Muslim or whatever and they said, if the Quran were
53:14
true, why would Jesus be so popular? They just left it at that. They were asking a Muslim?
53:22
No. Just silence. I think the thing that again, a lot of people struggle with because like
53:28
I can I skeptical by nature. So I can kind of see where people come to these realizations
53:33
because again, there are a lot of arguments that Christian make Christians make that are
53:37
just intellectually not satisfying. But then I also feel like Christians maybe go a little
53:41
bit out over their skis when they make their arguments. And so we're definitely not opening
53:45
up young earth, first old earth right now. That's definitely not what's happening. That's
53:49
so awesome. Everybody. Everybody just relax. I don't even know where y'all land on that,
53:53
but I'm just assuming it's gonna land somewhere. But when someone says, which again, doesn't
53:58
matter six little days versus six like old days, like we're not going to know where we
54:05
are going is when Christians will say, well, dinosaurs like T. Rex's and Raptors and Triceratops
54:13
and all the dinosaurs I've learned about because my three year olds into them right now, those
54:17
weren't described in the Bible. So it's not possible that they ever roam the earth. They
54:21
were placed into the earth to test our faith. I just go, yeah, this is getting icky. That's
54:28
so that's crazy for sure. And so and again, you don't have to fit into the world's conception
54:35
of what a good argument is because the world's like, if it's not scientific, then I don't
54:39
want to hear it. It's like, well, scientifically prove that you love your son. Oh, you can't
54:43
put that in a Bunsen burner like, okay, or beaker or something like that. So I go, okay, well,
54:47
then that's not that's not true. You don't actually love your son. Like you can, we can
54:50
go around all day. But I do feel like I've heard Christians say like if it's not in the
54:55
Bible, it's not true. Like, well, George Washington was the first president of the United States.
55:00
That is true. And I didn't learn that from the Bible. And so again, I think we have to
55:05
be careful when people like the source of all truth and knowledge is in the Bible. It's
55:08
like, no, it's not the source of the most important truths are in the Bible. But you
55:15
can't figure out who the 25th president of the United States is by going to the Bible.
55:18
You can't figure out how to get to grandma's by looking at the Bible. And I think we have
55:22
to understand that if you're looking for why truth even matters, the Bible is super duper
55:26
relevant, but we have to be very careful with how we describe the Bible. You know, people
55:30
talk about as a roadmap for a perfect life and all that like it's not really that either.
55:35
Like the Bible is to give us an understanding of the true nature of God. And it's also
55:39
explained to us how we are to have salvation through the truth of the gospel. Like that's
55:45
how we can share that now. Whereas in the first century, they shared it because they
55:48
saw it because they experienced it. Like it's just a little bit different. So I feel like
55:52
I'm typically near heresy here, but I hopefully you guys understand what I'm saying.
55:56
I think you just go back to if you're dealing with that kind of a question, just go back
56:00
to those basic questions about Christ before you confront anything else. And then if you
56:05
get to Christ, I think this is true. Challenge somebody to look back using the Bible and
56:11
properly understood, see if it's ever been disproven. It may not be comprehensive in
56:16
all of its facts, but has what it's chosen to make, you know, plain, been disproven historically
56:23
at all. Yeah, absolutely. And again, there, there are a lot of apologists out there like
56:28
I highly what we've mentioned. William Lane Craig, John Lennox, Turk, James White, like
56:35
there's there's always really good ones. And again, I think especially like William Lane
56:40
Craig, he sometimes goes even too far to not try to not use the Bible to make his arguments.
56:47
But he's doing something that is somewhat unique in the Christian apologetic space where
56:51
he's like he's appealing to a unbelievably high minded person that thinks anything that's
56:55
even tangentially related to the to the word of God is nonsense. And so he's going through
57:01
a much longer, more circuitous route to the person's heart. And so again, people have
57:06
some things that they can quibble with in terms of how he's approached certain debates
57:10
and certain things that he's written about. But I think that his heart would certainly
57:13
be in the right place. But guys, there is certainly more that we could talk about here
57:17
in terms of second Timothy three, but we're gonna leave that there. But come back here
57:20
next week because we're gonna wrap up second Timothy by discussing second Timothy four.
57:25
So guys make sure that you read that and come back here next week for that discussion. But
57:28
before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost add on dog to life.
57:32
Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual
57:35
mental and physical resilience. The only link we've got is to the donation page on our website.
57:40
Guys, the way we're able to pull off the forging table, the way we're really able to
57:43
keep the lights on around here is because we have donors, we have guys that have hopped
57:46
in some of them on a one time basis, but many on a monthly basis, like five bucks a month,
57:51
50 bucks a month, 500 bucks a month, whatever, to say, look, we believe in what you guys
57:54
are doing. And we want to equip you to be able to equipment around the globe, to be
57:58
able to push back darkness. And so we need you guys partner with us. So go to undaunted.life/donate
58:03
or go to the donation link that is in the show notes.
58:06
Thank you guys for listening to this episode. Wherever you listening to this, please subscribe,
58:09
rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak live at your event
58:13
or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@undontin.life. That's I in F O and
58:18
on to not life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website
58:21
for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your
58:24
way. Just go to www.undontin.life. Also, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
58:30
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
58:35
which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the
58:39
description.
58:40
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
58:46
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
59:08
Struggling with weight loss? Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet is a clinically
59:12
developed nutrition program designed to promote fat loss while protecting lean body mass. Developed
59:17
at USC's Longevity Institute, it assists the body in entering a fasting like state that
59:22
helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat. In just five days, Prolon offers a science
59:27
backed approach to weight loss without extreme restriction or guesswork. Get 15% off plus
59:32
a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now.