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The Forging Table

THE FORGING TABLE | 1 Timothy 4 (Ep. 436)

March 5, 2023 1h 3m Full transcript available
THE FORGING TABLE | 1 Timothy 4 (Ep. 436)
0:00 / 1h 3m
In this episode of The Forging Table, we dive deep into 1 Timothy 4, exploring the urgent call for men to forge spiritual resilience against the deceitful spirits of our time. We discuss the importance of godliness, the dangers of cultural ideologies, and the necessity of physical and spiritual training to push back darkness.
Transcript
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0:48 This is undaunted life a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:54 All right, guys. Welcome back to the forging table. The mission of undaunted life is
0:58 equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:02 So at the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
1:06 by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us.
1:10 So that's Matt, that's Zach. That's Derek guys. We're going to be getting into first Timothy
1:14 four. And I just got to tell you from the very from the very beginning from the jump, the first
1:18 like three verses of first Timothy four. There's so much there like I feel like and there's so much
1:26 throughout the rest of it. But like we could probably spend the entire time talking about the first
1:29 couple of verses. So I just want to read verses one through two. And that is like in the middle
1:34 of the sentence. So like verse three kind of keeps going. So I just want to read verses one through
1:38 two because there's a lot there. Now the spirit expressly says that in later or latter times,
1:44 some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teaching of
1:49 demons through the sincerity or insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared. Okay.
1:55 So a few things I want to point out until you guys up to talk about in latter times. Okay.
2:00 Everyone likes to say we're in the end times. But my goodness, like the things that are talked
2:05 about in this chapter, I can't think of a time that was this decaying in terms of society, right?
2:12 Because people like to talk about, oh, this is the craziest time in the history of whatever.
2:15 Okay, go back to World War II. Like that's that's pretty crazy stuff. But there wasn't a degradation
2:20 of culture. There was just slaughter happening. So latter times, the word depart there, the Greek
2:25 word used there is the same one for apostasize, where we're seeing people deconstructing,
2:30 we're seeing people moving away from the faith, like seeing people presenting their own version
2:35 of Christianity. And then specifically, I wanted to speak on deceitful spirits and teachings of
2:41 demons. I always describe that. I look at postmodernism. I look at Marxism. I look at the LGBTQ
2:49 revolution. I look at communism. I look at secular humanism. Those are the deceitful spirits and
2:53 teachings of demons, because in a lot of those worldviews, they sprinkle in a little bit of a
2:58 Judeo-Christian ethic. So it tastes enough like ice cream that you don't notice the diarrhea inside
3:04 of it kind of a thing. But I mean, guys, y'all can go wherever you want to there. Because,
3:08 again, just in those first two verses, there is a bunch to talk about before we get into the
3:13 rest of the chapter. Well, I'll say where I'm going to go. I'm going to go a different place to buy
3:17 ice cream than you go to buy ice cream. You know, you got enough enough in there to where they
3:23 don't notice. I was going to speak to the colorful language that comes out as well. What I was going
3:28 to say about the Bible. It all comes back to that tried and true narrative that was started in
3:36 Genesis 3, right? Did God really say? Does God say this? And so all of those things can be wrapped
3:43 up into the enemy, the devil, the demons, and his cohorts are going to come in and try to
3:51 get us to think like, did God really say that? Or does God's word really say, and like, if you
3:59 go back to last week and we're talking, does God really say it's got to be a man? Like,
4:04 is that really what's there? And so like, that's nothing is new under the sun. Like,
4:09 that's, that's, that's been something that Satan has been doing since the dawn of creation.
4:14 Absolutely, Matt. Okay. So Kyle, I'm glad you started there and paused us there because there's
4:20 so much in that first, in those first two verses one. Now the spirit expressly says, I found that
4:28 really interesting, right? Because he's saying spirit, capitalist, he's talking about the Holy
4:33 Spirit, like, hey, the Holy Spirit has revealed these things to us, which the Spirit still lives
4:37 and moves. And, and we have to be sensitive to the spirit and, and that we will depart by
4:44 devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teaching. Well, first, that's a bad idea. I mean,
4:48 that seems like a bad idea. But secondly, through the insincerity of liars, I tell my kids, so I,
4:54 I've got a 14 year old daughter and a 13 year old son, and I teach my kids, we watch movies and,
4:59 and always the good guy makes a deal with a bad guy. And I ask them, hey, is that a good idea?
5:05 No, because bad guys lie. They're not held to the same standards. And here, it, Matt, I'm so
5:10 glad you brought up Genesis because we know God's word says that the, the native language of the
5:18 devil is lies. That's what he speaks. And so he's very familiar with that. And it was either John
5:24 Eldridge or Mark Griskell that I was listening to a book and they talked about. That is the enemy's
5:28 native language. And we don't speak that. So when we're trying to communicate with him, we're behind.
5:33 Like he's lying. We don't hear it as lying. We assume everything's truth. And, and therefore,
5:38 we're not on guard. We're not prepared. And so Kyle, I think you're absolutely right is this
5:43 is the deconstruction of the way that we think. And it is lie with enough truth to be believable.
5:49 And so we don't always perceive it and we drink it down. Yeah. And I think the more exposure you
5:54 get to that, they talk about being your, your conscious is seared, which is like being cauterized.
5:59 It takes some time, but, you know, as you're exposed to it more and more, it becomes a dead
6:04 part of you. It's difficult to detach from and understand. And I think come back from. So you've
6:09 got to protect yourself in terms of who you're with and how you're interacting at all times.
6:14 Okay. So good point. So Zach, how do we do that? How do we, how do we stay sensitive and not get
6:19 cauterized or seared? It's a great, it's a big question. I think, yeah, go ahead.
6:26 I was just going to say, I think it's, I think it's getting into the word constantly. And I think
6:29 it's preaching to the gospel to ourselves. Alistair Begg talks a lot about like the gospel is not
6:35 something that we hear. And then we go, cool, got it. I'm a Christian. That should be something that
6:39 is so central to our belief that we are preaching that unto ourselves before we're preaching it to
6:47 anybody else on a daily basis because we are in constant need of the gospel and we do nothing.
6:52 We do nothing to gain any of our own salvation. And so we should always be preaching that to
7:00 ourselves. I think that's, those are two of the things that I would say. Well, no, on the preach,
7:04 real quick, Zach, on the preaching the gospel to ourselves part, we have to make sure we're
7:08 preaching the, the whole of the gospel because we've gotten in modernity. True. And I think this
7:12 potentially comes from the seeful spirits and the teachings of demons and people's whose
7:16 consciousness is consciousness is our seared is you're getting the gospel of God loves you.
7:22 That's it. But that's not that's not the gospel though. You don't understand
7:27 what a sacrifice Jesus made is if you don't understand your own depravity. Now, the opposite
7:33 side of the pendulum is you only talk about how depraved you are and how horrible you are and
7:37 how you're just a wretched sinner and all that. And that that's all you talk about. It's like,
7:40 no, God loves you in such an extreme way that he did something very extreme so that you could
7:44 be in his presence. But he had to do that because you suck so bad. Like you, you, and you didn't
7:50 suck so bad because you're a mistakeer, right? People talk about, Oh, I had some unhealth in my
7:54 life or I made some mistakes. It's like, no, no, I think the word you're looking for is sin.
7:57 I get some sin in your life and you were born into that you didn't have, you basically didn't
8:00 have an option. Right from the get go. But we get this kind of bastardized version of the
8:05 of the gospel. So if you're going to do what Alice Rebecca says, you should do, which I think in
8:08 general is pretty good advice. Like you, you've got to make sure that you are preaching the whole
8:13 gospel to yourself. I think the bastardized gospel would fall right into what Paul is talking about
8:18 here, about from liars. And like that, like, if we can say that the gospel is only God loves you,
8:26 like, that's a really inviting message to hear. And but that I think that falls right into that.
8:34 What he's what he's telling us to avoid there. I think what's the verse where it talks about,
8:41 you know, you look at yourself in the mirror, and then you walk away and you forget your image. I
8:45 mean, that to me is convicting. So how can you read this? How can you absorb it? And how can you
8:49 take it with you at all times in a way that you internalize it so that you're not putting yourself
8:55 in a situation where you're becoming cauterized? I mean, that's a question I'd throw back to you.
8:59 I mean, how how can you do that? I agree. I think you guys are spot on with the same way that I'm
9:04 thinking too, right? Like openly, foundationally read the gospel, understand it, apply it to your
9:09 lives. Oftentimes, right, if something really good happens in life, we like to look in the mirror,
9:16 but if something bad happens, we look out the window, right? And that that's the natural tendency
9:21 of self, which I think it should be the opposite, right, of saying something bad happens. Let's first
9:26 start in the mirror and say, all right, where is this on my shoulders? Did I fall short on this?
9:30 And I think that that's that's my desire that God's word does for people who are listening. And that's
9:37 my desire that God's word does for all of us, myself included. I think the other part to that Zach is,
9:45 I think you talked about this last week being in community and the desire of the church or the
9:49 design of the church is to be in community some way because nobody can read your nobody can read
9:55 their own label because they're inside the bottle. But you have people around you that can read your
10:00 label and say, Hey, look, I know that this might be a blind spot for you, but I see this behavior,
10:06 I see this activity, I see this perspective, I see this pride and I'm bringing it to you and I'm
10:10 pushing right what that requires is we have to push our relationship equity chips to the middle of
10:15 the table, say, Hey, I'm I'm pushing in and I'm betting, but I'm telling you this is what's
10:21 going to happen. And it takes a level of humility to receive that on the other side,
10:24 which again, happens as a result of God's word. Yes, 100%. It's it's effort. You've got to put
10:30 yourself out there, you've got to be in the word and you've got to be around people that are
10:33 challenging. Yep. When I would do want to spend a little bit more time talking about
10:38 Zach, kind of what you're talking about in terms of the consciousnesses, I can't say that word
10:41 out loud. Can somebody say that word, right? Conscience. Now it's it's the plural of conscience.
10:45 Conscience is is, conscience is God bless America. This is what I do for a living and I can't talk
10:50 but like the through the insincerity, the insincerity of liars, whose consciences are seared.
10:56 It's almost implied there. And again, I want to be careful when you use the word implied and then
11:02 you start talking about scripture guy because then you're getting into ice of Jesus territory.
11:05 But what you're implying there is that they they almost don't know how insincere their lies are
11:12 because they have a seared conscience. And so it's easy to talk about the conscience being seared
11:19 when you're looking in culture and how how a woman can walk into an abortion clinic to get her
11:24 fifth abortion and walk out and make a giggly TikTok video. You only get there if you have a seared
11:29 conscience. But specifically in these verses, they're talking about people that are devoting
11:34 themselves to the spirits and teachings of demons. And I just I think of so many cultural examples
11:42 of the teachings of demons, like how do you get drag queen story hour? Like, how does that happen?
11:47 Because nobody cared to talk about drag queens until you started bringing our kids into it.
11:51 And then it's like, wait, no, no, no, no, no, like you could do your depraved little crap over there
11:56 by yourself. But now you want to indoctrinate our children into it. You can look at it with
12:01 critical theory, you're bringing in critical race theory, you're telling the children of color in
12:05 the classroom that because of the level of melanin, or in their skin that they are lesser than and
12:09 they're oppressed. And you're telling all the white people in the class that regardless of how
12:13 you acted or what you do, or even your family history, that you are the oppressor. And it's like
12:18 these things are being taken in hook line and sinker and culture. And I believe in the last
12:22 episode, we talked about, you know, sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia and all these other
12:25 places that don't buy into critical theory at all. Like, they don't buy into the trans ideology
12:30 and trans agenda that they're not having problems here, because they can lean on what the scripture
12:35 is saying, because they're not pretending as if these seared conscious ideologies of everybody
12:41 else like that actually makes sense. It's like, no, no, we're not going to go in that morality.
12:45 We're going to go on something else. Yeah, think about your conversation recently with
12:50 Sean McDowell and compelled speech at the end. Oh, yeah, at the end of last year. Yeah.
12:55 Yeah. So to me, it's, you know, you've got a group of individuals that have put themselves
13:00 in a position where they buy into a pronoun situation as an example. And you can sit there and hold
13:05 that at bay and it's out there. But as soon as they come to you and require that you have to say
13:10 something that's contradictory to what you believe, it's in your front doorstep. Yeah. And I think
13:15 now that's what we're dealing with. Because it used to be here are the words you can't say.
13:18 Now it's here are the words you must say, right? Like it's compelled speech versus here's the
13:22 speech that we would like to control. Yes. Right. Right. Okay. So one more thing on this and then
13:27 we'll cruise on maybe here to three and four is what I see about this is now the spirit
13:33 expressly says that in later times, some will depart from the faith by devoting himself. Okay.
13:37 Paul was talking, he's writing a letter to Timothy talking about something specific,
13:41 referring to something specific that was happening in the church in Ephesus at the time, right?
13:47 Yet here we are 2000 years later, referring to stuff that's happening in our church and society.
13:54 And so there's this underlying theme. And I think we can't be oblivious to the fact that
13:58 there is a constant battle, a real battle going on between good and evil, light and dark and a
14:05 constant overthrow or appeal usurp of trying to usurp authority from a real enemy against a real
14:13 God, a hundred percent agree with that. And some of it looks like vertical theory, some of it looks
14:18 like word of faith, God wants you to be rich. Like, so some of it, you can go, Oh man, yeah,
14:24 I would never believe that. But if I give enough money to my church, God's going to bless me with
14:28 millions of dollars. And so that like, there are so many avenues that Satan can take to try to divide
14:35 the body of Christ. And I think that's why always going by what standard, by what standard are we
14:41 going on? Always goes back to the Bible. Yeah, if you don't believe it's real, go back to Lewis's
14:45 challenge, right? Can you can you spend five minutes and not send according to the standard?
14:50 And almost nobody can, almost literally nobody can. So if you don't think it's real, try it.
14:55 It's real to real battle. Yeah, light and dark. Okay, cruising on. All right, let's let's go
14:59 here. Verse three, I think is interesting for there are liars who forbid marriage and require
15:05 abstinence from foods that God created to be received with Thanksgiving by those who believe
15:09 and know the truth. From what I read, I, I believe Paul was referring to a specific group of people
15:16 inside the church of Ephesus who were forbidding, you know, calling people to abstinence and
15:21 forbidding marriage and calling certain foods, unclean, even though they had been called clean.
15:28 Is that what you guys saw as well? I do. And I think you can, you can,
15:31 carry that out a few thousand years later to the Catholic church. Like he's, he's literally
15:37 preaching against some of the practices of the Catholic church before, before what we know is
15:41 a modern day Catholic church existed with priests being called to celibacy and not marrying. And
15:48 like, I thought that was interesting. I've never, I've never really thought about it that way. But
15:52 then, you know, what I'm looking at is like, Oh man, don't like, don't be married. Interesting.
15:58 That's an interesting thing to say. So I, there's some interesting correlations to me.
16:03 I agree. I do find it interesting, you know, he's saying, Hey, it's not wrong to, it's wrong to
16:07 forbid marriage yet in one letter, Paul appeals saying, Hey, it's better if you aren't married,
16:12 right? Be like me. So that way, we're all married men. You understand the challenge, right? If
16:17 sometimes choosing your wife or choosing a passion or the church or serving or something like there,
16:21 it's constant. There's attention to be managed there. Okay, cruising on for verse four, for
16:28 everything is created by God is good. Everything created by God is good. And nothing is to be
16:33 rejected if it is received with Thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
16:39 There's a lot there. Yeah, that's a big, that's a big statement sentence in the Bible. What do you
16:45 think? Well, and even even in the first part, for everything created by God is good, most people
16:49 think that's referring to what was talked about in verse three, which is referring to marriage
16:53 and referring to food and all those different things. But that can be extrapolated out even
16:56 further to just talk about like, if God created something, he created it for good. I got a message
17:01 the other day about the intro out from music of this podcast. And people were talking about,
17:06 well, there are demon notes. And I was like, what is that? And then it was like, Oh, no,
17:11 there are certain notes in music and there are certain tones and certain things that are demonic
17:16 by their very nature. And I said, what I didn't really get into along back and forth with this
17:20 person, because it's like, Hey, if you don't like the intro out your music, like you can easily
17:23 skip it like I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. It's what I like, you know, it's my show,
17:26 like if you want to create your own show and have, you know, different music, go for it.
17:30 But this idea that there are tones that God can't use for his glory, because there are
17:37 gospel centered brutal bands that when you're listening to them with an untrained ear, you're
17:43 like, Oh my gosh, this is clearly satanic. And it's like, these are all Bible believing Christians
17:47 that are playing chords on their guitar and they're singing things. And like, they're singing the
17:51 verse, but in your ears, it's like, but wait a minute, it's like God created everything for good.
17:56 And you're thinking he can't redeem it. You think that he can't, like there are categories of things
18:00 that he can't work in. And you can get it as minute as particular notes and songs.
18:04 Yeah, I think that Paul has something to say about that in Romans, the sovereignty of God,
18:09 who are we as the as the clay to tell the potter? Like, why did you make me this way? Like can God,
18:15 I mean, God, he literally says, God said to Moses, I'll have mercy on whom I've had mercy on. I will,
18:23 I don't remember the rest of the verse. I'm not in there, but like basically he's talking about his
18:27 sovereignty. Like there are things that he created for for evil that will be that will go to destruction.
18:34 And there are things that he has has made for good. And we don't get to question that.
18:39 I think he talks about Job two in there, like God is sovereign.
18:43 That's a really, I don't know, deep hold. I mean, there's so many things in that,
18:48 but bring it back to this for just a second. When you think about that, in that same sense,
18:52 he also, I believe references Pharaoh and he references that he hardened his heart eventually
18:56 after so many. And at that point, it kind of goes to the same thing where Pharaoh was essentially
19:01 cauterizing himself against unbelievable evidence. And then eventually he just, he hardened his heart
19:07 and that was the situation. So I think that's another warning for why we want to be extremely
19:12 careful about what environments we put ourselves in. I agree. I mean, for me, it's like, okay,
19:18 for everything created by God is good. How far does that go? Yeah, because Kyle,
19:23 I have never heard of demon notes ever. That was news to me. That's a brand new concept.
19:28 And I go back to really surface level things like think about diet fads. You know, one day
19:33 you're just supposed to be eating meat and the next day you're supposed to be avoiding carbs and
19:36 all this stuff. Well, Jesus ate bread and all that sort of thing. Everything's good. And the
19:40 Bible says that, you know, essentially, you should have everything in moderation to an extent. You
19:43 should enjoy it, not puts one thing on a pedestal. So one to the to the moderation piece as well,
19:49 like everything that's outside of moderation or outside of God's like intent for that thing
19:55 becomes sinful. And so it's like food in and of itself is not a sinful thing. That's how we
20:00 nurse ourselves is how we move on. God gave us taste buds, which is a mind blowing thing,
20:05 because he could have just given us the ability to digest food. But no, he gave us the ability to
20:09 enjoy it. Like, that's a good thing. But also sex is a very, very good thing. There are parts of
20:13 our bodies that their only purpose is to make us feel good. They serve no other physiological
20:18 purpose, right? And kids, if you're listening to this, ask your parents. But like, that's the
20:22 thing that's very interesting about about that is like, but then if that becomes your idol. And
20:26 if you have that outside of the covenant of one woman for life, under under the covenant of of
20:32 marriage before God, then it becomes sinful. So the same thing with all of this is it's like,
20:36 okay, are there bands out there that will use the same notes or the same whatever? I don't know
20:42 anything about music, but they'll play the same guitar riffs. And yet, as opposed to having a gospel
20:48 centered lyrics and music and trying to praise God through that, they're trying to bring people
20:53 towards darkness. Well, yeah, it's like, there's nothing wrong with the note. Like, it's how it's
20:58 being used in who it's serving. Well, I think that's to the point, right? Like, and nothing is to be
21:04 rejected. So I looked up rejected and it means despised or abominated. It means twisted to become
21:09 sinful and outside of God's intended purpose. I think so my mind, so I did. I think I think God's
21:19 word has layers, right? I mean, there is the surface layer and then God can also have two or
21:24 three different meanings with the same statement. And so when I read that, I almost think everything
21:29 created by God created in the image of God is good. What about people, right? People who have been
21:37 abominated, despised, who have been twisted or become sinful. They're not, they're not outside
21:44 of God's redemptive power. But when something gets twisted, despised or abominated, yeah, that's,
21:51 it becomes not good at that point. It becomes not good. But they're not outside of redemption.
21:55 They're not too far for God to reach and to pull back. What almost feels like as well, when you go
21:59 back where it's talking about forbidding a marriage and abstinence of foods, it goes back to when
22:04 we were talking in Galatians about, okay, yeah, yeah, you know, grace your faith and all that, but
22:08 gospel plus, right? You know, grace your faith and like that kind of thing. And so it's like, okay,
22:15 people had to almost like, I think all of us have worked in an office at some point,
22:20 where somebody who was not good at their job was doing a really good job of pretending
22:24 by just being really busy. And so they're just moving stuff like they would move their cup
22:28 of pins from this part of their desk or that part of their desk because they read, you know,
22:32 half an article about six Sigma and, you know, making things, you know, even more efficient and
22:36 that kind of thing. It's like, but they're not doing anything. They're not producing anything.
22:40 But it makes them feel like they're doing something. It's like they're whether they're shuffling
22:44 the deck chairs on Titanic. It's like, it seems like work, but it's actually useless. I feel like
22:49 there's a little bit of that as well to where it's just like, it's this creation of confusion. Like
22:54 you're almost giving this ideology like I'm doing something here by adding standards that God would
22:59 not say as a standard. Yep. Think about how practical the Bible is. I mean, going back to your point
23:04 on sex, it basically says, make sure that you and your wife are taking care of each other and
23:09 not neglecting each other because I've essentially created you to where this is necessary. It's not
23:14 putting it on a pedestal and glorifying it like culture does, but it's very practically saying,
23:18 make sure that you're taking care of each other. And to me, that's just one other reason why I
23:23 think the Bible is so true. He's talking about sex, ladies and gentlemen, in case you were wondering,
23:26 you know, we were you didn't want to say the word because he's a nice guy, but you know,
23:30 it just kind of is what it is. But like, guys, that's another thing that I'm struck by whenever
23:34 you're reading the Bible is if you read through it and you're busy and you're distracted mentally,
23:39 how easily could you buzz through these first four or five verses and not even think about it?
23:43 Yep. And it's like, there's so much here. I mean, we spent a little over 20 minutes just
23:47 talking about those first few verses and we got to move on. But that's that's the reality of
23:50 scripture guys is allow the Holy Spirit to help you understand. And what you need to do, what you
23:57 need to bring to the table is concentration and quiet. And so there are times, and I'm the worst
24:02 about this. Like, I can't stand silence. I need this podcast is over. Need to go to the next one,
24:06 where it's going to be a two time speed, because we got to get things done. We got to listen to
24:09 the thing. And then oh, now it's time to read the book. Okay, blah, blah, blah. And then now I'm
24:12 trying to go to sleep. Well, I got to take, you know, melatonin, because otherwise my brain's
24:15 been moving too fast. It's like, no, no, bring yourself quietly to the scripture.
24:18 If you need to turn on brown noise or white noise maker or something like that, that's great.
24:22 But bring your attention to what? What do you shake? What is brown? What is brown? Okay,
24:26 all you you racist go to YouTube right now and type in brown noise. It's different than white
24:31 noise. Okay. I don't know what the difference is. But when I searched for white noise at one point,
24:36 I got brown noise that popped up. Y'all can look at me like I'm crazy. I don't give a crap.
24:40 I don't know how many thousands of people just just paused what they were doing. Pause this to
24:47 just go to YouTube to see if brown noise was a thing. Probably as many that pause to go look
24:51 up demon notes a little while ago, probably I was making a good point. And you jack waggers
24:56 decide to get we derailed it. But I do want to get I do want to get to verse eight here because I
25:01 know people are going to be like, okay, God, you know, you know, please make sure that these guys
25:05 cover that because I do spend a lot of time on the show talking about making sure you're physically
25:09 resilient, making sure that you work out. I get asked about workouts all the time. Maybe that's
25:13 something that we'll do in the future. So guys can can get squared away. But verse eight here,
25:17 for a while bodily training is of some value. Godliness is a value in every way as it holds
25:23 promise for the present life and also for the life to come. So here's the thing about verse eight.
25:30 I feel like a lot of people want to focus on one part of that verse and not the entire verse.
25:35 Okay, people need to focus on both part because because they just they typically fat people.
25:40 They want to dismiss the first part shut up there. But they it's like for a while bodily training is
25:45 of some value. So what they say is like, Oh, I don't need to exercise at all because that's
25:50 just of some value. Now I'm going to pretend I'm going to spend all that time I would have spent
25:55 taking care of my body. And I'm going to put that into godliness and how that's of major value.
26:01 That's part of the reason why we talk about spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
26:05 If you only focus on physical resilience, it will be to the detriment of the other two areas.
26:10 If you only focus on spiritual resilience of all the categories, that's the best one. But you still
26:16 have the mandate to focus on mental and physical resilience. And so that's the thing for me there.
26:21 I think people, especially pastors, they've used this scripture and scriptures like this to say,
26:27 Hey, I'm so busy with the word. I'm so busy with prayer and I'm so busy with ministering.
26:33 I just don't have time to take care of myself. And I've heard literally heard people tell me,
26:36 yeah, hey, you know, Kyle, I, you know, I would work out and I would buy a diet and all that. But
26:40 man, I'm just too busy with my kids. And it's like, okay, well, you're deleting about 10 years of
26:44 experience with your grandkids because you're going to die early, assuming all things are created
26:48 equal. And so I want y'all to kind of talk about that because I know I'm like the extreme got to
26:52 work out guy. But you know, it's just, well, I think, I mean, I think certainly that God has gifted us
26:56 a body, an earthly body that we should steward appropriately. And we should train our body. And
27:03 like you're saying, like we shouldn't, we shouldn't just not work out and then miss out on, you know,
27:08 gifts of spending time with our grandkids. But I think that can become people's idols too.
27:14 Because like, what's more important? Like, it is, it is good to a certain extent. But at the end of
27:21 the day, it is still only our earthly body. But I think there's balance. There's got to be a balance
27:29 like you can't just say, add a heck with it. I'm not going to work out ever. But you also can't just
27:33 that. This is my worship because then it's then it's an idol. So well, to me, it's another practical
27:38 element. I mean, I'm not an expert in historical writing. But the fact that this was written several
27:42 thousand years ago by Paul and he acknowledges very plainly that, you know, bodily training is of
27:48 value was was a big thing for me to say, yeah, that that aligns with what all of the science is
27:52 saying today. And he you know, he says that we should be doing it. So don't put it on a pedestal.
27:56 Yeah, really good point. Well, even at that time, like I've always wondered like, what if we were
28:00 able to be plopped down 2000 years ago into these areas? Like, I think like, what if I had been
28:05 born in like 1902? And then like, would I have been a major league baseball player? Because
28:10 were these people like, because you look at these old videos, it's like, these aren't athletes.
28:14 Like, I remember Matt, like, because you when I first started getting into soccer in college,
28:18 like you were like the best soccer player that I knew. And you did think so so easily. And then
28:22 you look at these old videos of these soccer matches, and it's like, all these people are slow,
28:27 all of them are terrible. And so if you think about 2000 years ago, there's no keto diet,
28:32 there's no like, tabata, things that people are working out and doing like, did they even know
28:37 what pushups were? Like, they weren't bench pressing and squatting and deadlifting and those
28:41 types of things. They were just living their life. But even in that culture, there's acknowledgement
28:46 that you do need to take care of your body. Now, what I see has happened as we see just about
28:52 everything, everything bends towards idolatry. And we live in a culture now, and it's really
28:57 especially weird with with women now. And maybe, maybe this isn't the time to talk about it. But
29:01 yeah, people that are just absolutely obsessed with their bodies, and their own Instagram,
29:05 and they're, you know, on YouTube and all that. And you have these bodybuilders that are pretending to
29:09 not be on, you know, trainable and all these other like steroids and all that. And you're comparing
29:15 yourself to these people. And you know, they've got the perfect triceps and the perfect ab and,
29:19 you know, they make the make the V and then you've got these women, you know, they're attracted to
29:23 guys with dadbods, but then they have boulder shoulders. And it's just like, I feel like we've
29:28 bent towards the idolatry of the body as if the temple is what saves us, right? The temple of the
29:34 body. We're made to worship. We're made to worship. We either worship God or we worship
29:39 something else. And that like, that's it. Like if you break it down, it's pretty, it's pretty
29:44 simple. So we're either worshiping God or we're worshiping, whatever. And for some people, yeah,
29:48 that's working out. Well, and I think Kyle to your point there and that to your point as well is,
29:52 go back and look at verse seven, have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths, rather train
30:00 yourself for godliness. That's the over. I mean, first, godliness is the overarching goal, right?
30:05 You look up godliness and it talks about reverence and respect and piety towards God. Like having
30:10 this rep, we talked about it in verse Timothy three about godliness and how that is the goal.
30:17 But I do, I do think it's funny, have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. I looked up
30:22 silly there. I was reading it and it, did you look it up? It's fit only for old women is the actual
30:28 translation there. Why they hate no, no, I don't get it. Like, I don't, I don't know anything that's
30:32 he set himself up for some later chapters here in this letter, which I think is hilarious. Like
30:39 just Paul's kind of passive aggressive nigs there are pretty funny, but the goal here is godliness.
30:45 The goal is godliness in words of faith and good doctrine in reverence, respect,
30:49 piety towards God. And we will, we will worship. I do think Kyle to your point. And that's why I love
30:55 undaunted dot life of man's podcast is because we you push not just one area of resilience. Like,
31:04 hey, we're not just going to push back darkness in one area of life. We're going to push it back
31:08 in three areas of life because discipline in one area of life lends itself towards discipline
31:14 in other areas of life. But in part of it, Derek, to that is preparedness. So I had something that
31:20 happened literally yesterday. So yesterday I had was first time in my life where I thought I was
31:27 going to have to actually pull my pistol. It was a very intense moment. I'll try to be brief for
31:32 the story just so we can, you know, say the point and make the point. But I always typically position
31:37 myself to where I can see the door just kind of out of habit so I can kind of scan and see what's
31:41 going on in a very, very small restaurant in Oakland City. So everyone's kind of on top of each other.
31:45 And I see a man walking the sidewalk outside the, you know, the front windows and he's just kind of
31:52 pacing back and forth. And he's just something off about him because he had like really nice
31:56 sunglasses on, but he was wearing like coveralls like he was working, but then he had a nice jacket
32:00 over his cover. Also, it was just something was off about him. He's carrying a backpack.
32:03 And then he walks to the window slowly. He's peaking in the window, looking at everybody,
32:08 getting really, really close to the window. And so my buddy's talking, but I'm not really paying
32:11 attention to it. I'm paying attention to this guy. And then he, he pulls out, he doesn't pull out
32:15 anything, but he turns his hand into like what, whenever you make like a finger gun, and then he
32:20 starts shooting through the window with his fake, you know, finger gun at the people that are inside.
32:25 And at this point, I'm like, Oh, okay. This is it. It's going down. Then he walks in. So at this point,
32:32 I've got my hand on my pistol. It's on the safety. It's like, I have no idea what's about to happen,
32:35 but it's about to happen quickly. He's about 15 feet away from me, like really, really close to me.
32:39 And this is one of those places where they don't really have like a lobby area. You're just kind
32:42 of standing around until someone notices you and then tries to seat you. And so he picks up a menu,
32:46 and he's pretending to look at the menu, but he's looking through his glasses at everybody else in
32:50 there. And it was, it was just one of those moments where it's like, I could feel, you know, from
32:55 Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman's book, you know, I could feel my body preparing for violence,
33:01 preparing for something. Because at this point, I'm so tuned up. I'm like, if he reaches in his,
33:07 his coveralls, something has to happen. If he reaches into his backpack, something has to happen.
33:12 And I'm going because I'm the only one paying attention. Like everyone else that's in the
33:16 restaurant is oblivious to this guy. And then he starts like kind of talking and like saying
33:21 things to people at different tables, and they don't even notice that he's saying things. And then,
33:24 you know, luckily, he walks out. Okay. And, you know, he walks down the sidewalk. One of the
33:30 servers went out like a moron and was like trying to, you know, engage the guy in a conversation,
33:34 then he started coming back. And, you know, then around that time, that's when people started to
33:38 tune in and be like, Oh, what's going on? And like, you know, what was wrong with that guy?
33:42 But in that moment, there's no time for training. There's no time for a lot of internal dialogue.
33:48 If he had pulled a pistol or a knife or something like that, I was the first line of defense for
33:55 everybody, every image bearer of Christ in that room. Luckily, nothing happened. Nothing had to
34:02 happen. But there was a level of preparedness that I had made well before that happened. So,
34:09 physically, I was prepared, because like, if you can stop something from happening without
34:15 killing someone or maiming them, then that's what you do. So years and years of wrestling,
34:19 years and years of jujitsu, but also mindset, because there are wrestlers and jujitsu fighters
34:24 that would never get into a fight in public, because there's no mats. You're not wearing a
34:27 ghee and there's no timer or something like that. But that's why I always get down to people to
34:32 where it's like, you know, they're spiritual warriors, right, that they've got that nailed.
34:36 But physically, if God required them to do something that required their physicality, would they be
34:40 ready? Because imagine a prayer warrior in that room. What are you going to have a Bible study?
34:46 The guy pulls out a gun and starts shooting people, image bearers of Christ. How are you
34:50 going to push back that level of darkness in that exact moment? If you, you know, we saw this where
34:56 there's several examples and culture of people seeing like there was a story, you know, Loudon
35:02 County that happened, you know, a few years ago, where, you know, this transgender student is
35:08 raping a girl in the stall, ain't only raping a girl in the stall in the school. And months and
35:13 months and months after this story broke, it was found out that there was a school teacher that
35:19 walked into the bathroom and saw two sets of feet underneath the stalls. And if you're being
35:24 annually raped, I'm assuming you're not exclaiming joy in that moment. And they didn't do anything.
35:29 They walked out, reminded me of the Sandusky at Penn State. He's raping a boy in the bathroom.
35:36 And one of the graduate assistants, who's a big guy, like, yeah, he was a big guy. Yeah, big guy
35:41 sees Jerry Sandusky raping a child and leaves and my calls his dad and asks him what he should do.
35:46 And so I guess that's part of, I know this is kind of a long soliloquy here, but that's
35:50 one of those things where like people when I'm, I'm talking about the practicality of pushing
35:55 back darkness in the moment. And so when men only want to read books and they only want to go to
36:00 church and they only want to do those things, those things, obviously, we see here from verse 8,
36:04 are of the utmost importance to prepare yourself spiritually and to lean towards godliness.
36:11 But if you were incapable of protecting the sheep of image bearers of Christ,
36:16 like, is that good? And I'm not saying everyone has to be an MMA fighter. I'm not saying that
36:21 everybody needs a concealed carry. But like, in that moment, like in that restaurant or in that
36:26 bathroom or something like that, that's not the time for exegetically explaining to somebody why
36:31 what they're doing is wrong. You have to stop it. I agree. You look at a guy like Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
36:35 like he's no slouch when it comes to intellect, right? He was physically fit. He played sports and
36:40 did things with his students because he was physically fit. So he was very short and stature,
36:47 and one of the greatest minds of the early 20th century, but was also physically fit. But no
36:56 one would say Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a gargantuan wrestler type guy who could knock somebody out
37:02 with one punch, but he was physically fit because that was important. And he wasn't afraid to take
37:06 action. Exactly. And I think that's a great point, Kyle. Not being afraid to take action to protect
37:11 the image of God is, in my opinion, a form of a that is an aspiration of godliness because I want
37:19 to protect others. And I want to use my God given strength, physical strength, mental strength,
37:23 emotional spiritual, all of those strengths to protect or pursue God's other creation.
37:29 Yeah, I'd add one thing to that because I think everything you just said is exactly right. And
37:33 I'll make this really short, but I've got an experience that I had a couple months ago, took
37:36 my family on a cruise won't say the cruise line, etc. I found myself sitting by the pool and I have
37:41 two kids, one's a small girl, and she was out playing. And I noticed that she gets out of the pool,
37:46 and there's about a 20 year old man talking with her in a way that seems really inappropriate.
37:52 I asked her to come and see me and she comes and she's upset because she wants to continue to talk
37:57 to this guy. And I say, Hey, what are you doing? And what was he saying and all that? Well, he was
38:01 telling me that he doesn't live with his parents. He lives by himself and he works at Disney World
38:06 and he wants to end things just got strange. So my wife came back, I explained to her what was
38:11 happening. I watched what was happening a little bit more. And then through a series of events,
38:16 we figured out that this kid was or this boy, whatever, was essentially following these children
38:21 around and he would go to the hot tub with only the small kids, not the adults. And it was very
38:26 strange. I made eye contact with him. I felt some things I never felt before. But what I did
38:33 is I had my family stay there and as opposed to us just leaving, you know, see something, say
38:38 something, something you hear a lot, went down to security, went and found the people, all that
38:42 stuff. They took me to the little bitty room and they, you know, let me know that I was on camera
38:46 and they asked me all these questions. And I said, look, it's probably nothing. But we need to be
38:51 having a conversation about this. They followed me up and they instructed me what they were going
38:55 to do. The whole security force came by. And from a distance, they watched him. We were able to
38:59 identify him and he went, he got rack up and he went into the hot tub with the kids and all that
39:03 sort of thing. Have no idea how it evolved. But what I do know is that if he didn't do anything bad,
39:08 nothing, nothing would have happened to him. But I think many people probably would not have taken
39:12 the time right to make sure they did something. So even if you're not physically able to do something
39:18 right in that moment for people that are listening, you can do something. And I think it's important
39:24 for everybody that the overwhelming ethic is the protection of those that are in the flock.
39:30 Now there are some people that are like, well, this is just my earthly body. If I lose this earthly
39:34 body, like I shouldn't be afraid of death and all those different things. Like that is not
39:40 a cue to you to make yourself more appealing to a potential predator, regardless of what the
39:46 predator's intent is. Because if you want to say that, that's not just a fight against just war
39:52 theory. That's an argument against police. That's an argument against anybody that would protect
39:58 anybody for any reason at any point, right? And you know, people even say, Hey, you know, that's,
40:03 that's like you're trying to, you know, play God to a degree by like trying to
40:07 intercede in these exact situations. But I think it's a lot of people that are more cowardly in
40:12 their countenance and in their personalities. They don't want to get in a fight. They don't want
40:16 to be physical. They're not trained to do so. And so they build this philosophy around, you know,
40:21 not doing those things. And then they backfill it with some scripture. And they pretend that,
40:26 you know, when Jesus told Peter in the garden, like to, you know, put a sword away, that that was
40:31 somehow Jesus saying, Hey, we shouldn't be violent for any reason whatsoever. Like no matter what.
40:36 But I would love for those people to make the argument to me about when you're violent to protect
40:41 image bearers of Christ, when you're violent for good, that that is a bad thing that we should
40:47 keep ourselves from doing. It doesn't make sense to me. We could probably talk about that forever.
40:52 I think so too. I think so too. Okay, let's dial back in. Okay, we are, we were on verse eight,
40:58 verse 10, for to this end, we toil and strive this being godliness, right? Reverance, respect,
41:04 piety towards God, because we have our hopes set on the living God who is the savior for all people.
41:09 I found this really interesting, especially of those who believe. I found the especially
41:17 because it wasn't only for those who believe, but it was especially for those who believe.
41:23 This is a really packed couple sentences, because like if you go back to verse nine,
41:28 Paul again says, the saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. That's about,
41:35 I think that's a third or fourth time he's done that just in first Timothy, where he's saying,
41:40 okay, this is a point that I really want to hammer home. Timothy, like if you haven't been
41:44 paying attention, like read and pay attention here, because I want you to get this, right?
41:49 If you've stopped paying attention, listen now, if you hear only one thing I say, here this,
41:54 right? Yeah, exactly. When some people would read verse 10, Derek and think universalism.
41:59 Exactly. Right. So he's a savior of all people, but he's like super duper savior for those who
42:05 believe, right? It's like, but again, this is this is where we get into if you're a mature
42:10 studier of the Bible. And again, Matt, you've said this a bunch and some people would say that
42:14 this is circular reasoning, but you let the Bible explain the Bible. You let the Bible read the Bible,
42:18 those types of things. So if you build your entire theology based on first Timothy for 10,
42:23 you're going to say, everyone goes to hell. I'm sorry. Everyone goes to heaven. Sorry, guys.
42:29 Everyone gets to go to heaven, but you know that maybe there's a special part of heaven
42:34 for the especially, right? You know, the believers in those types of things.
42:39 But I mean, really what you're seeing there is Jesus and again, this kind of gets into Calvinist
42:44 theology, which, you know, we don't have our resident Calvinists here to argue with, but it's like,
42:48 you know, he's the savior to all people to the ones that would believe in him. So it's like,
42:54 his grace is available to everyone, but it's, it's going to save the believers, right? Because
43:01 it's the same thing as like, if you are drowning and someone throws out a life vest or, you know,
43:06 a floaty of some kind, like that is available to everyone in that situation that's drowning,
43:12 but only the people that hop on board or grab it are going to be able to float and save themselves.
43:16 Well, I think how we talked about that when we went through first Timothy two, right? Because
43:23 first Timothy two four says, I'll get part of three here. God, our savior who desires all people
43:31 to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, the truth is Jesus died on the cross
43:37 for our sins and only those that claim him as their savior are saved and come into relationship
43:43 with him. But it, you're right. If you build your entire theology on that right there,
43:50 it's, it's broken. It's absolutely broken. So yes, does he have a desire for all to come to him?
43:54 Yes, will all come to him? No, not everybody that Jesus talked to believed in him and his,
44:00 the, you know what I mean? And his mission. So there are some going into that your deep Calvinist
44:07 dive of Romans that we could go into here. Well, yeah, I didn't mean to derail there. But like,
44:16 I think for me, it's like, there's, there's a thing called common grace to where the goodness of God
44:22 can show up for people who aren't in the faith. Like they're like, like a common grace or common
44:27 goodness of God would be taste buds. Like everybody has taste buds, even if you're not a believer.
44:32 So God, so the goodness of God shows, shows there, like that, oh my gosh, this food tastes so good.
44:39 Is it ice cream?
44:40 Now we're coming.
44:43 It's ice cream for sure. But I think, I think it's, I think it, to me, it kind of speaks to like,
44:50 like we strive for these things because the goodness of God shows up to all people,
44:56 especially those who, but like the all people is not, it's yeah, he's definitely not
45:01 preaching universalism. Like I think we'd be foolish. Like Kyle said, to just take that one
45:08 verse and say, that's it. That's what we do. Well, of course we do, but I mean, this, this verse,
45:14 this verse kind of goes to Romans. It also goes to Titus of like, this is not,
45:18 this is not universalism, but there are goodnesses of God that, that everyone experiences. That's
45:24 kind of some of the things I took on it. Well, here's what I throw at you. I don't know what
45:28 your opinion is on this, but this is Warren Wierzby commentary. And he says, the words translated
45:34 suffer reproach are an athletic term from which we get our English word agonize. It is the picture
45:40 of an athlete straining and giving his best to win. A Christian who wants to excel must really work
45:46 at it by the grace of God and to the glory of God, which goes back to what we talked about in the
45:51 very beginning that you've got to put yourself in there. You've got to be reading. You've got to be
45:55 participating in this experience. It's not a free ride. I kind of feel like a lot of Christians
46:00 think that they'll become more sanctified via osmosis. Right. Yeah, exactly. Almost like they can just
46:06 hang out at church and passively do go ahead. Eric, I know you want to happen on that. No, no, no,
46:10 you're I think you're absolutely right. And the reason I believe that is one, we're Westerners.
46:16 So we just believe we deserve it. We're entitled to goodness. And if, hey, good people, if good
46:21 people go to heaven, which I don't believe is true, but any if good people go to heaven, well,
46:26 obviously we're good people. We're Westerners. Yeah. And we go to church and we're educated.
46:31 And we know words. Yeah. So therefore, yeah, I fit in that bucket when it's not true. And it is
46:36 exactly what you're talking about, Zach, it is striving and pushing and training and developing.
46:41 And that comes from understanding God's word, living out God's word and growing closer to Christ
46:46 through the pursuit of toil and strive towards godliness and knowing you have a problem in the
46:51 first place. Right. Yeah. There's an apologetic that goes back to verse eight, where you're
46:55 talking about physically developing the body, whether you're an athlete or not, whether you've
46:59 been a bodybuilder or not, whether you've seen, you know, extreme performance and bodily changes
47:05 based on your, you know, background prowess of exercising. Everybody knows that if you want
47:12 to have a better body to get stronger to do all those things, it requires hard work in the gym.
47:17 Okay. That doesn't mean everybody does it. But intellectually, everybody knows that that if
47:21 I were to run, I would likely be less people. Right. I would have less things on my body.
47:27 And I would be better at running. Like, if I want a strong chest, I need to binge press.
47:31 If I want strong legs, I need to squat. Like everybody knows that. But then we don't act that
47:36 way when it comes to spiritual strength and spiritual resilience. Because I guess in school,
47:42 it's like you don't read Lord of the flies, you know, five times to understand the context.
47:47 You read it once you take a test and then you move on to kill mockingbird or I guess that's
47:51 been canceled. You move on to something else, another book. And so we don't really reckon
47:56 with the scripture and we don't really struggle with the scripture. We don't struggle via prayer.
48:00 We don't do sets, you know, of prayers or something like that. It's like, I'm going to do three sets
48:04 of 10 of Romans two, you know, like we don't, we don't do that. And so it's almost like a lot of
48:09 us just say like, okay, well, I'll just, I'll go into church is fine. Listening to Caleb is fine.
48:15 Listening to Donna life man's podcast or listening to John MacArthur sermons, like that's enough
48:20 for me to grow. And it's like, imagine if once a week for an hour, you exercised. And then you
48:27 expected to be in elite level shape. I got that's not how it works. I guess not how it works
48:31 by any stretch of the imagination. But the thing about it is though, is your gas tank for godliness
48:37 in spiritual development is vastly bigger than your gas tank for exercise. Because even if you're a
48:44 Ironman triathlete that has to work out three or four hours a day to get ready for, you know,
48:49 the bike and the swim in the run, like at the end of the day, that's that's a few hours a day,
48:55 whereas most people are working out between 45 minutes to 60 minutes, a few times a week.
48:59 But how much more gas tank do you have for reading the scripture for praying? Because that's
49:05 not going to take it out of you in the same way that extreme physical exertion would, you know,
49:10 I agree. I think where our treasure is, that's where our heart lies. And Jesus is talking about
49:18 that. He's talking about like what's like, I think one of the things is what is important to us.
49:22 And if godliness and striving to be sanctified is important to us, we're going to get into the
49:28 word. Like everybody, everybody says, I don't have time to read the Bible as they're scrolling
49:33 Facebook out of any time. Or they just they just binge watched, you know, 12 episodes of their favorite
49:41 show. But I don't have time to read the Bible. And I say that coming from a place where I've
49:45 felt that I've been there. And I got to have time to read the wait. Wait, oh, I do. You have time.
49:52 To make time for what is important to you. And I struggle with that for sure. But I think that's
49:58 that's a point that we should all take home.
50:00 Yeah, trying to tie this together. I've been through some situations physically where I've been put
50:07 in put in places where I can't physically deal with the scenario I'm in. And I recognize that I
50:12 needed to have the training. Right. When we tie this back to the spirit and having control and
50:17 all that sort of thing, think about when you're dealing with an interpersonal situation, whether
50:21 it's family or somewhere else, and this concept of emotional intelligence, can you control yourself
50:27 inside modern science is saying that emotional intelligence is critical. And the way that that
50:31 comes out is with self control and gentleness and all of these things. So if you're thinking
50:36 about a way that you can have the discipline that you bring to the exercise world, and something
50:42 that's very practical, it's can you are you really able to exhibit these things? And as you're starting
50:48 to have interactions with people, I think you have opportunities to work on that and to pray
50:53 about it. And it's something that is is very practical in your life that you can start to see
50:59 change with it's different from I'm gonna read this thing. And hopefully osmosis is gonna allow
51:02 me to just behave like this. You have to make a decision to become that person. And once you do
51:07 your relationships get better. Well, I think a lot of people don't understand like when you see
51:11 these guys are in their 40s and 50s and even in their 60s, and they can do a bunch of pullups,
51:15 they can do a plank for everything, do all these things. They didn't start training in their 40s,
51:18 50s and 60s. These guys have been doing this since they were teenagers, and their body is
51:22 grisled for that their body understands that like one of the things is when you get because you know,
51:28 doing Jiu Jitsu starting Jiu Jitsu in my 30s, there's a difference between getting grabbed by a guy
51:34 who's strong physically that has started training in his 30s and getting grabbed by somebody who has
51:40 been squeezing things since they were a child, like squeezing necks and grabbing legs and lifting
51:47 people off the ground. Like there's it's something different when a kid starts wrestling or doing
51:51 Jiu Jitsu at four or five and now they're an adult, their body is built around being able to do that
51:57 thing. Think about how much gristle you create spiritually. If you are constantly putting in the
52:03 in the work Dale Partridge who came on the show last year, he's like it's not how many years you've
52:07 been a Christian so many hours. Like and you think like it's not how many years you've been working
52:11 out. It's how many hours you've been working out. And like that that's a really, really big thing,
52:14 which I do think kind of lends itself to a discussion about about gifting because some people
52:19 are physically gifted, they're athletically gifted. Like they're really, really smooth. Like I remember,
52:24 you know, Matt, I think I've mentioned your soccer stuff already, but you're a very you were a very
52:28 smooth soccer player that had power. Then I played with guys that only had power and I had guys that
52:33 only were smooth, like they weren't capable of both. That was a gift that you cultivated. That
52:38 was a sharp knife you were given by God that you cultivated over time. And that became your soccer
52:42 style. You know, whether you do Jiu Jitsu or whether you're a runner, like everyone kind of has a style
52:48 of things that they do in terms of exertion. And then you get into verse 14 where Paul is basically
52:53 telling Timothy again, his people do not neglect the gift you have. Okay. There's there's no,
53:00 there's nothing he's imploring him here to say like, Hey, developed this gift, this gift and this
53:04 gift because you're, you know, you're you're kind of struggling in these areas. Hey, you have some
53:08 weaknesses in these areas. So let's kind of bring those up from bad to decent. And then, you know,
53:13 we'll kind of go from there. It's like, do not neglect the gift you have. And he's specifically
53:16 talking about his gift of speaking and prophesying and in those types of things. And I feel like for
53:21 a lot of us, we think our gifts inside the body of Christ are somehow different than the gifts that
53:26 we have inside of our families are inside of our businesses or any of those types of things. And so
53:29 like, you know, I remember, you know, Kelsey and I were going to a church boy back in the day and
53:33 Kelsey's a great organizer. She's a great like, Hey, let's take all these things together. And
53:37 whether it's thoughts or like, you know, desks, like she can organize everything. And she lent
53:43 that skill set to the church and said, ring me out for your purposes, because I was given
53:48 organization as a gift. It just makes sense to me. For me, I can read a 500 page book and to still
53:54 that down into two or three minutes and explain to you what you need to use to where that can
53:58 practically work. That's a skill set that I can make better over time with. That was a skill set
54:02 that I was given. But man, guys, I feel like most of us neglect our gifts, specifically as it
54:09 pertains to the work of the gospel. Am I wrong? You agree with that? Well, you're absolutely right.
54:14 Yeah, I agree with that. Sure. Yeah, I'll dive in first. I think how you talked about it in First
54:17 Timothy three of a typically maybe an alpha male outside of the church is a killer in the business
54:24 world because he's a great leader in order. And then he goes inside the church doors and he shuts
54:27 it off. Like this is, no, this is my place to receive. This is my place to just get and do nothing
54:33 and be talked at for an hour so that I can turn around and go be a killer outside. I think I believe
54:39 no, God has given us gifts. And we should be able to use that gift towards the glory and
54:46 magnification of God through his local church. I mean, I that let's reach more people for Christ.
54:53 Through the serving of his body. I don't think you're saying you shouldn't go fill up because
54:57 like that is about what I know. Like you should definitely go to church to receive. Like that's
55:03 why we go because we want to be we want to continue to be tethered to God. We want to we want to be
55:08 filling up our spiritual cup as it were. But yeah, I think we have been gifted things
55:16 that can be used to serve the body of Christ. Right. Is there a difference between talents
55:22 and gifts? Yes. I think question. I'm just asking big question guys. Exactly. We've got like
55:32 two minutes. Everybody pause and we don't know. Nobody wants to say it wrong. Right. So the
55:38 okay. No, the only reason I bring it up is because I know in the Bible that it's it's very specific
55:41 about what biblical gifts might be spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts. Yeah. Right. And that's
55:45 where I think to me, the delineation goes between talent is a talent. Hey, it could be a personality.
55:50 It could be us. It could be I don't think that there's a spiritual gift of jujitsu. There could be.
55:55 Right. But it could be a talent that you grow and develop over years when you start squeezing
55:58 things at five years old. But here, do not neglect the gift you have, which was given to you by
56:05 prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. So that's a spiritual gift that's
56:09 imparted by the Holy Spirit once you received it and people pray for you. I think Eric Eric Lydell
56:15 is a is a great example of the difference between talents and spiritual gifts. Like he was really
56:21 fast. And that was a God given talent. And he put off missionary to do what what God had crafted
56:32 him to do in a sense. He he said, when I run, I feel God's pleasure. Right. And he had some
56:37 arguments with his sister like, Hey, why are you not going into mission? This is important to our
56:41 family. This is what we there's what we've been called by the Bible to do. And he said, I will do
56:45 that. But I had literally been made to run fast. I am not going to take God's glory away by not
56:54 doing that. But then after I'm done with that, I'm going to use a spiritual gift of evangelism
56:58 and take that to the world, which builds a platform, right? Exactly. Well, as soon as you said,
57:02 Lydell, first, first of all, I thought you're talking about the my pillow guy. And so I was like,
57:06 because I couldn't remember the my pillow guy's first name. So so that's a cherry to fire. Yeah.
57:11 So that's how my brain works. But you're exactly right. Because you know, Derek, you mentioned like,
57:15 you know, jujitsu in and of itself is not a spiritual gift. Yes. Athletic ability, explosiveness,
57:20 ability, body control, those are all things that go into being a good jujitsu fighter.
57:26 And there are guys that can do that incredibly well. And jujitsu is just something that speaks
57:32 to them. They enjoy it. It's something in their personality that is more appealing to them than
57:36 maybe golf or volleyball or football or some other sport. But now you have opportunities to
57:42 share the gospel with people because of your competence in a sport. So I mean, growing up again,
57:50 I'm just going back to the soccer example. Like you were typically the best guy on your team,
57:54 no matter what team you're on. And you don't have to say anything because it's the truth.
57:58 You're the most talented, you're the most skilled, you scored the most,
58:01 you played midfield, but you scored like a like a striker. And so just by virtue of how you're
58:08 able to perform on the field, you're going to be able to get people to listen to you. So everyone
58:13 talks about this like when you're around somebody that's really, really competent. So like, if you're
58:16 hanging out with someone that's famous, you'll laugh at their jokes even when they're not funny.
58:20 Like you'll listen to them as if they have something special to say when they're just kind of a regular
58:23 person. And but the reality is, is God gave you these gifts so that he could use them that they're
58:30 not for you only, right? He granted them to you temporarily because here you are on this earth for,
58:36 you know, the extent of a blink of an eye. And again, we keep bringing this back to something
58:40 athletic, but maybe you're a great reader. Like you read quickly, you absorb content,
58:46 you remember it, maybe you have an idetic memory. Like when you read something, it's in your brain
58:50 for the rest of your life. Imagine what type of value that can provide for you as you're trying
58:55 to catacize your children. Or as you're trying to, you know, do something volunteer based at your
58:59 local library or something like that, you have these skill sets that God has given you for his glory.
59:04 But we neglect to remember that we are not the point. Right. And so we think I'm a great athlete.
59:11 I'm really smart. I'm really good at recall. I'm a good test taker. That's for me. No,
59:16 that's not for you. He gave that to you so you could use it for somebody else. It goes back to
59:20 for everything created by God is good in verse four. And then we leave that there with verse 14. So
59:25 guys, again, this is just kind of my call to all of you. Just think about the stuff in chapter four.
59:30 Like again, the first four chapters of first Timothy have been absolutely incredible.
59:33 But how many times did all of us recognize in the fourth chapter? Like crap, we could spend the
59:39 entire time talking about these couple of dozen words here because there's so much here. And so
59:44 guys, again, we keep being implored by everybody here to let the Bible read the Bible. Understand
59:51 that you can't just pull out a singular verse and make that your life's verse and only look at that
59:57 as it pertains to the rest of the Bible. But man, there's so much more we can get into, but we're
1:00:01 going to have to leave it there. Come back next Sunday, guys, where we will dig into first Timothy
1:00:05 five, we're coming towards the end of first Timothy. Make sure you read that during the week so that
1:00:09 you are prepared. All right, guys, we're going to do a quick resilience boost before we let you go
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1:01:02 The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back
1:01:07 darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:01:37 [Music]
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Kyle Thompson
The mission of undaunted life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
Kyle Thompson
If you want a strong chest, you need to bench press. If you want strong legs, you need to squat. Everybody knows that.
Kyle Thompson
Do not neglect the gift you have.
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