The Demonic Origins of the Enneagram (Ep. 552)

0:00 [MUSIC]

0:20 This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.

0:23 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.

0:25 Be sober minded, be watchful.

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0:54 We need you as donors, and guys, I've been getting a lot of messages and emails about

0:58 this new program that I keep teasing.

1:00 I tease it on the 17 ways to avoid being a crappy man episode back at the beginning

1:05 of this year.

1:06 And we're working on some stuff right now, and we hope to release it this quarter, okay?

1:09 So February is probably not going to happen, but we're shooting for March to be releasing

1:13 something.

1:14 So be on the lookout for that.

1:15 Make sure you are paying attention to your inboxes.

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1:24 The Instagram algorithm doesn't love us, but if I can reach you directly through your inbox,

1:27 that's what we want to do.

1:28 So in the quick hitters today for today's program, well, you know what, actually, I'm

1:33 just going to do the first quick hitter here because like, I've been wanting to talk about

1:36 this for a while.

1:37 So let me give you the list of the quick hitters, but then this, I'm actually going to do the

1:40 first one first before we get into what we're talking about today.

1:43 But Muslim fundamentalist slaughtering nearly 200 Christians in Nigeria around Christmas

1:48 time.

1:49 And so I'm just going to go ahead and go down to my notes.

1:50 So just stick with me as I go through because we got a lot of stuff we're covering today.

1:54 Okay, so most of you don't even know that the story happened.

1:58 Again, Muslim fundamentalist slaughtering nearly 200 Christians in Nigeria and this happened

2:03 at the end of last year around Christmas time.

2:04 So this is according to Christian or Christian today, not Christianity today, but Christian

2:08 today, Christians in Nigeria's plateau state are living in fear of more attacks after devastating

2:13 bloodshed over the Christmas period.

2:15 The death toll from the massacre of Christians in the days leading up to Christmas has reached

2:19 nearly 200 and more bodies are being discovered according to release international.

2:24 Some 80 communities were targeted between December the 23rd and the 28th as Christians around

2:29 the world were celebrating the birth of Christ.

2:31 The attacks have been attributed to radicalized Fulani herdsmen.

2:34 In addition to killing villagers, the attackers set fire to churches, corn stores and clinics,

2:40 buildings belonging to Muslims were left untouched.

2:42 So I'm going to go right to the big takeaway on this one.

2:44 And again, I've been very angry about this one and I just haven't had a chance because

2:47 we had other things that we were releasing on the show.

2:50 So I wanted to talk about it because basically no one did, basically no one talked about it.

2:54 And here's my big takeaway.

2:55 It's actually a big question.

2:57 Where is the international condemnation and outrage on this?

3:02 Because I'm getting told a lot that because I support Israel and their work in Samas that

3:06 I am supporting the murder of innocent civilians, even though every single drop of blood spilled

3:12 in this conflict is on the hands of Hamas, but I'm being told that we can't be talking

3:16 about that.

3:17 These people that seem to be overwhelmed with empathy and great feelings towards people

3:23 of color, towards oppressed people.

3:26 Why aren't they talking about these Christians that were slaughtered in Nigeria?

3:31 I have some ideas.

3:33 Could it be because no one in the leftist media cares when Christians are slaughtered?

3:38 Perhaps.

3:40 Could it be because it was poor and oppressed Muslims?

3:43 I use scare quotes with poor and oppressed Muslims that did the attack.

3:49 Perhaps could it be because this is just an international example, a black on black crime?

3:55 Perhaps that as well.

3:57 Could it be because it doesn't fit their preferred narrative that helps substantiate their preconceived

4:02 notions about power dynamics?

4:05 Definitely, definitely.

4:08 It's certainly all those other other things could be those other things, but it's definitely

4:12 that because they have a preconceived notion like these ridiculous things that, oh, you

4:17 know, these, these poor Muslims, they were just doing what they felt they had to do.

4:21 They didn't have enough jobs.

4:22 They didn't have enough opportunities.

4:23 They couldn't play the sports that they wanted growing up.

4:25 They don't have enough books.

4:26 They don't have iPads.

4:27 They need internet.

4:28 They need all these different things.

4:29 And somehow those things would stop fundamentalist Islam.

4:36 When are people going to wake up to the fact that these people hate Christians because they

4:39 hate Christians?

4:41 These people want Christians to die because according to their religion, they're apostates

4:46 that they need to be eradicated, right?

4:49 Because that's why they did this.

4:52 They didn't do this for fun.

4:53 They did this because they thought that's what Allah wanted them to do.

4:55 And I've talked a lot about fundamentalist Islam on the show and I did a lot of it whenever

4:59 Hamas attacked Israeli's in October of last year.

5:04 But again, this is one of those stories that Christians around the world should have been

5:07 up in arms about this, but seemingly we don't care.

5:12 I mean, the major news outlets out there, so if you're a conservative Fox News or a daily

5:17 wire or the blaze, I don't think any of them covered it.

5:21 You certainly didn't see it on MSNBC or the Washington Post or it certainly was on the

5:25 front page in the New York Times.

5:27 But if one black person in America is killed by a police officer, even if that person was

5:32 in the process of trying to kill that police officer, we're going to burn our cities to

5:36 the ground.

5:37 And that interesting and we have people rioting and looting and burning cities right now all

5:42 over the world because Israel is defending itself against Hamas and defending future

5:47 Israelis from the predations of Hamas by killing them now.

5:51 What are we supposed to do with that?

5:53 So one to make sure I brought that story to you here from the very, very beginning because

5:57 it's just, it's absolutely astonishing.

5:59 So let me go back up to the top of my notes here.

6:01 So here are the other things we're going to cover in the quick hitters.

6:03 We're going to cover Ohio governor Mike DeWine vetoing a bill that would have banned the

6:07 bodily mutilation and chemical castration of trans identified children in his state.

6:12 Harvard president Claudine Gay resigning after failing to condemn anti-Semitism on campus

6:16 and after revelations of intentional plagiarism and roughly half of her scholarly work Donald

6:22 Trump being removed from the Republican primary ballot in Colorado and Maine and the release

6:26 of the names of some of just Jeffrey Epstein's pedophilic clients.

6:31 Sewing ad bunched on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them, that's bullspend and

6:37 marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

6:40 I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow.

6:45 Yeah, it wasn't.

6:48 Cut the bullspend.

6:49 LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more.

6:52 Advertise on LinkedIn.

6:54 Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit at linkton.com/campaign terms and

6:59 the conditions apply.

7:01 But what we're going to be talking about today is we're going to be talking about the Enneagram.

7:05 And so right from the jump here, we're going to be doing a lot of technical work here.

7:09 I'm going to try to, you know, weave a narrative for you, but just follow me.

7:13 Because if you love the Enneagram, Haiti Enneagram, or have never heard of it, I'm talking to

7:18 all of you today.

7:19 Okay.

7:20 So if the Enneagram is like your sacred cow that you don't want me to talk about, I'm

7:22 telling you, just keep logged in.

7:24 Okay.

7:25 So let's talk about personality tests in general.

7:27 So I've taken a lot of personality tests over the years, tons of them.

7:31 And you know, there's the ones that tell you what color your personality is or what animal

7:35 your personality is.

7:36 And mine was always the most intense color, the most intense animal.

7:39 So I was like the rhino, right?

7:41 So I always like ran people over like that.

7:42 That was kind of my personality.

7:44 But then you get into some of more of the technical ones, like the Myers-Briggs and some

7:48 other ones that we'll talk about a little bit later.

7:50 And I've just done tons of these over the years and they're fun, right?

7:53 Because all of us seemingly want some sort of, you know, revealed insight or secret knowledge

7:59 into how we are the way that we are and why we do the things that we do.

8:02 So personality tests can be fun.

8:04 But for some people, personality tests turn into a way that they're going to now operate

8:08 in the world.

8:09 And so that's where it becomes a little bit sketchy.

8:11 So when we talk about the Enneagram, I literally remember the first time I heard about the Enneagram,

8:16 first time I heard the word Enneagram is because the guy that was leading our Sunday school

8:20 at the time, and so this is the same Sunday school that I'm in right now, or derivative

8:24 of the same Sunday school.

8:26 And the guy named Donnie, he is a licensed family therapist and counselor.

8:31 And so we're at a marriage retreat with my Sunday school and this was, you know, five

8:35 years ago, we had just been a part of the Sunday school for a little bit.

8:38 And so we took this test and I think we took it before we showed up and then when we got

8:42 there, we all kind of knew what our Enneagram was and we kind of knew our wives and then

8:47 we got to talk about how that all related to one another and it was actually very informative

8:52 and I thought very, very helpful.

8:54 And so what I did with it is I was like, oh my gosh, the Enneagram is the greatest personality

8:58 tests I've ever taken.

8:59 And because of my leadership bend of my higher education, like this is a big deal, like,

9:04 you know, to have the best of the best, right?

9:06 And so I was suggesting that all kinds of people do this, right?

9:09 So I would just, you know, recommend it to random people.

9:12 But I was also doing a lot of business consulting, you know, several years ago.

9:17 And when I would consult with businesses, I would have everyone in their C-suite.

9:21 So all their executives take this exam to see what Enneagram they were.

9:25 And then I would determine, okay, this person is a this and this person is a that and here's

9:29 how they can coalesce and communicate with one another.

9:32 And so I use the Enneagram to make money and I use it to increase the value that was going

9:37 to be added within these, you know, high leverage teams in these business contexts.

9:42 And then we saw the Enneagram seemingly exploding in counseling circles all over the place, therapy

9:47 circles all over the place, and then specifically in Christian circles.

9:51 There are just so many pastors.

9:54 I would hear mention the Enneagram from the pulpit as just even like an aside.

9:57 I even remember Matt Chandler mentioning it just randomly in some sort of a sermon.

10:02 Pastors were having their staffs do it.

10:04 So their entire staff, whether they have a five person staff or a 500 person staff, they

10:08 were having everybody take the Enneagram.

10:10 Some of them would actually put their Enneagram number outside their office.

10:14 And then we saw a bunch of Christian publishers, a bunch of them releasing books on the Enneagram.

10:18 And literally, if you go to Amazon right now, there are hundreds of books if you type in

10:22 Christian Enneagram.

10:24 And so some of the more notable ones is Thomas Nelson has a nine book series called the Enneagram

10:29 collection, which has one book by different authors about each of the nine Enneagram types

10:33 or any of types.

10:34 Then Thomas Nelson also put out another book called more than your number, a Christ centered

10:38 Enneagram approach to becoming aware of your internal world by Jeff and Beth McCord.

10:43 And then Zondervin published in 2022, an offering called the Enneagram of belonging, a compassionate

10:48 journey of self acceptance by Christopher Hertz.

10:51 And then enter varsity press they released a book in 2021 called the Enneagram goes to

10:54 church wisdom for leadership, worship and congregational life by Todd Wilson.

10:59 And then there's tons and tons more.

11:01 But a couple of years ago, I was listening to an episode of the unbelievable podcast with

11:05 Justin Briarley.

11:06 So that's a debate show over in the UK where they typically have, you know, an atheist on

11:10 one side and a Christian on the other.

11:11 But this was a facilitated debate between two Christians.

11:14 And the debate was between a pro Enneagram pastor named Todd Wilson, the guy that I just

11:19 mentioned who wrote the Enneagram goes to church.

11:21 And an ex new ager named Marcia or Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, there you go.

11:28 Marcia Montenegro, I nailed the last name and I can't get Marcia right.

11:31 So it was between Todd Wilson and Marcia Montenegro and Marcia Montenegro is the author

11:35 of Richard Roor and the Enneagram secret.

11:38 Now, I remember at the time being a little confused before listening to this debate because

11:43 I didn't think the validity of the Enneagram was something that needed to be debated.

11:47 Like, I was very confused.

11:48 I just thought that the Enneagram was this morally neutral thing that was just good if

11:53 you used it.

11:54 I thought it was just great overall because it seemed to work and it seemed to help people

11:59 in relationships and in business.

12:01 And ultimately, that was the only point that pastor Todd Wilson could muster up during

12:06 this debate.

12:07 It was basically how bad can this be like it works.

12:10 And that was that was his only debate point.

12:12 It was actually a really terrible debate or maybe just not in general, but specifically

12:16 on this point.

12:18 But after listening to that entire debate on the unbelievable podcast, I knew I had to

12:21 take a much deeper dive into this topic.

12:25 So I did.

12:26 It took took me a while to get around to add some other things I've been talking about

12:28 over the last couple of years.

12:30 But this podcast today is a culmination of what I found out.

12:33 Now, as I go through this, it's going to seem like a lot of information and it is, but please

12:40 stick with me.

12:41 Again, I'm going to try to go slow and make sure that we're we're constantly knowing where

12:44 we're at, but really try to tune in here and stick with us through the end.

12:47 So the first thing that we need to do is talk about what is the Enneagram.

12:50 So some of you guys are like, I have no idea what this word even means.

12:52 I wish you would tell me.

12:53 So this is according to a bunch of different contributors on Wikipedia and I know some

12:57 people don't like Wikipedia, but I looked at the sources and it's going back to people

13:00 that are proponents of the Enneagram.

13:01 Okay.

13:02 So these are not people that want to make it look bad.

13:04 So here's according to Wikipedia, the Enneagram of personality or simply the Enneagram is

13:09 a model of the human psyche, which is principally understood and taught as the typology of nine

13:15 interconnected personality types.

13:17 As a typology, the Enneagram defines nine personality types, sometimes called Enneotypes,

13:22 which are represented by the points of a geometric figure called Enneagram, which indicates

13:27 some of the principal connections between the types.

13:30 And so here are the nine types.

13:31 And again, these are referred to as Enneotypes, reformer, oh, these actually course correlate

13:36 with the numbers.

13:37 I'll give their number number.

13:38 Number one is reformer.

13:39 Number two is helper.

13:40 Number three is achiever.

13:41 Number four is individualist.

13:43 Number five is investigator.

13:44 Number six is loyalist.

13:46 Number seven is enthusiast.

13:48 Number eight is challenger and number nine is peacemaker.

13:51 And with that, there are what they call triads of three types that have kind of multiple

13:55 corresponding personality issues.

13:57 So the first is the intellectual center, which combines number five, the investigator,

14:01 number six, the loyalist, and number seven, the enthusiast, then you have the emotional

14:05 center, which combines number two helper, number three, achiever, and number four individualist.

14:10 And then you have the instinctual center, which combines number one reformer, number

14:13 eight challenger, and number nine peacemaker.

14:17 In addition to that, there are wings.

14:19 Okay.

14:20 These are the types that are on either side of you on the Enneagram diagram, okay.

14:25 These wings create, I guess, your spectrum, which describes your personality.

14:29 And so if you look at a picture of the Enneagram, if you're an Enneagram one, your wings would

14:33 be number two and number nine.

14:35 If you're an Enneagram six, your wings are number five and number seven.

14:38 And then also you have your connecting lines.

14:41 This is that interconnectedness that I mentioned earlier, which describes where your personality

14:45 goes when under stress or need for security.

14:49 So for example, according to the Enneagram, according to this diagram, number eight, if

14:54 you're a number eight, which is a challenger, when you're under stress, you will either

14:58 go to number two, which is helper or number five, which is investigator.

15:02 Okay.

15:03 There's a whole lot more to it than that, but that's essentially the gist.

15:06 But right from the jump here, I'm going to give you two major problems with the Enneagram

15:10 and the second of which is of vast importance.

15:13 So here's the first one.

15:15 It is completely untested and has no scientific nor psychological data to confirm its usefulness.

15:23 It is essentially overall a pseudoscience.

15:25 Okay.

15:26 So Dr. Bruce Thier wrote a book called science and pseudoscience and social work practice.

15:31 He described the Enneagram as quote, an assessment method of no demonstrated reliability or validity.

15:37 Unquote.

15:38 There's a natural philosopher named Robert Todd Carroll who wrote the book, the skeptics dictionary.

15:44 And he said that the Enneagram is on the list of other pseudoscientific theories that quote

15:49 can't be tested because they are so vague and malleable that anything relevant can be

15:54 shoehorned to fit the theory, unquote.

15:57 And then here's the thing as I was kind of looking through this, it's kind of a telling

16:01 sign that comes from the response to this criticism by Enneagram proponents.

16:05 It's that their response that it works site only anecdotal, only anecdotal evidence.

16:11 Okay.

16:12 And it's all anoch data, right?

16:14 Because there's no hard evidence that the Enneagram is true or helpful.

16:17 But we only hear these stories of, well, if it doesn't work, then why did my relationship

16:21 with my boss improve, huh?

16:22 Why did my relationship with my spouse improve, huh?

16:25 But the reality is that the burden of proof that the Enneagram is legitimate is on the

16:30 proponents of the Enneagram, not me, not anyone who would maybe doubt it.

16:35 But the proponents of the Enneagram can't seem to be bothered to do the hard data driven

16:39 work approving it.

16:40 So that's the first problem with the Enneagram.

16:42 But the second one again is of monumental importance to this discussion.

16:47 It has demonic and anti-Christian origins that cannot simply be ignored because the modern

16:54 uses of the Enneagram are essentially the exact same as when they were formalized.

17:00 So in brief, basically, the Enneagram is scientifically, psychologically, and spiritually, at least

17:06 in a Christian sense, worthless, it's worthless.

17:10 But we need to dig a lot deeper.

17:12 And again, if you're an Enneagram person and you're tempted to turn this off because

17:16 I'm, you know, taking out your sacred cow, stick with me, okay?

17:19 But we're going to, we need to back up all the way to the beginning, okay?

17:22 And then just a quick note from the jump, the Enneagram rabbit hole goes deep.

17:27 I mean, mega deep, like I went way down the rabbit hole last week.

17:31 So I'm literally just about to give you guys a high point overview of what we're dealing

17:37 with here.

17:38 And I could have spent a lot more time on this.

17:39 I could have done a five hour episode on this today, but I'm just going to give you

17:42 again some of those high points for whatever that's worth.

17:44 So where did the Enneagram come from?

17:47 We need to define that.

17:49 Some people claim that it's too disputed to attribute to one source.

17:53 There are others that say that the Enneagram is a derivative of a four century Christian

17:57 mystic that lived in Alexandria, Egypt named Evagrius Ponticus.

18:01 Great name.

18:02 However, when you look at the specifics of the Enneagram and the specific works of Ponticus,

18:07 you can only see vague similarities at best.

18:09 So I don't think that's, that's a very good way of looking at it.

18:12 But in order to get to the bottom of how we got the Enneagram and modernity, it comes

18:17 down to the work of three men.

18:19 Okay.

18:20 Those three men are George Gertchiff, Oscar, Chazo and Claudio Naranjo.

18:25 Okay.

18:26 So we need to dig into each one.

18:27 Let's dig into the first one.

18:28 George Gertchiff.

18:29 So he died in 1949.

18:30 He was born in Alex, Alex and draw Paul in the Russian Empire, which is now Armenia.

18:35 He's a mystic philosopher and spiritual teacher.

18:38 Okay.

18:39 And he was seen by his followers as a spiritual master, and he was also seen as an esotericism.

18:44 So esotericism is, you know, it's being the loose connection of all Western philosophies,

18:50 essentially, except for Judeo-Christian religions and enlightenment rationalism.

18:54 So that's kind of what esotericism is.

18:56 And he was also seen as an occultist.

18:59 So occultism is just the practice of witchcraft, mysticism, magic, and I mentioned mysticism

19:04 a few times.

19:05 So mysticism is kind of this, I'm going to become one with God.

19:09 That's kind of what mysticism is.

19:11 But also George Gertchiff is credited as being the first person to use the word Enneagram.

19:17 He's also credited as the sole source of the geometric figure that displays those nine interconnected

19:23 traits that I described earlier.

19:25 He also taught people, hey, or sorry, he taught that people were not conscious beings.

19:30 So we are just like any other animal.

19:31 We have no consciousness.

19:33 He also described humans as living in a hypnotic state of waking sleep, as he called it.

19:39 However, he did have his own message of hope.

19:43 And that was that humans could awaken themselves to kind of a higher state of consciousness,

19:49 which would allow them the ability to serve our purpose as human beings.

19:52 Well purpose was that exactly?

19:54 Well he didn't seem to specify that.

19:56 He just said that if we tried really, really hard that we could get into this supposed

20:01 at a higher state of consciousness.

20:03 He also taught that humans were able to do this by a process that he called the work,

20:07 okay, which is essentially an extreme focus on one's self.

20:11 It's a self mastery.

20:13 He practice or his practice was dubbed the fourth way by one of his students with the

20:18 other three ways being one, the way of the factor, which is the Islamic term traditionally

20:24 used for Sufi Muslim ascetics, who renounced their worldly possessions and dedicated their

20:28 lives to the worship of Allah.

20:30 The second is the way of the monk, which is a person who practices religious asceticism

20:33 by living in monastic lifestyle.

20:36 And the third is the way of the Yogi.

20:37 So that is a practitioner of the religious form of the combination of body movements,

20:43 breath work and meditation in concert with Indian religions, most specifically Hinduism,

20:48 which is what we see normally by practitioners of yoga, okay.

20:51 So again, stick with me.

20:53 So what is the fourth way that Gertch have created?

20:56 He developed it from 1890 to 1912 while he was traveling in the far east.

21:01 And while there he was influenced by different sects of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and some

21:05 other belief systems that we'll talk about a little bit later, he also claimed that esoteric

21:10 Christianity, which is what he called it was part of the scaffolding of his overall philosophy.

21:15 So esoteric essentially means that it can only be understood by a select small number

21:20 of people with specialized knowledge, okay.

21:24 So esoteric Christianity is essentially Gnosticism.

21:27 So a lot of you heard of Gnosticism, but that's a first century, heretical movement, which

21:31 emphasized personal spiritual knowledge by a select group of people, right?

21:36 Not doctor and not the word of God, but just, you know, personal revelation.

21:39 So simply, esoteric Christianity is heresy.

21:43 It's not Christian in the least bit, but that's where he says he got some of the foundational

21:46 work.

21:47 And the fourth way focuses on the harmonization of the body, the emotions and the mind, and

21:52 his approach to teaching this was taught by ritualistic dancing, okay.

21:57 And he also demanded that people focus almost exclusively on themselves.

22:01 And Gertch have had a pupil named Peti Ospinski, who carried Gertchif's work on and he wrote

22:06 a book in 1977 called in search of the miraculous.

22:10 And it was, you know, the following about the fourth way.

22:12 So the fourth way teaches that the soul, this is from his book, that the soul is a human

22:18 of an individual is born with, sorry, let me start that over.

22:21 The fourth way teaches that the soul a human individual is born with gets trapped and encapsulated

22:26 by personality and stays dormant, leaving one not really conscious, despite believing

22:31 one is a person must be free to must free the soul by following a teaching, which can lead

22:37 to this aim or go nowhere upon death of his body.

22:41 But a person be able to receive the teaching and find a school upon the death of a physical

22:45 body, they will go elsewhere.

22:48 Humans are born asleep, live in sleep, and die in sleep, only imagining that they are

22:53 awake with few exceptions, okay.

22:55 So just generically in general, that's go George Gertchif.

23:00 Now we need to go to the next guy, and that's Oscar Achazzo.

23:03 So he died in 2020.

23:04 He is a Bolivian philosopher was a Bolivian philosopher.

23:07 Most of his important work was done in the 1950s, and much of his work seems to be a

23:11 derivative of Gertchif's work, even though Achazzo claim that it wasn't, okay.

23:16 He is seen as the principal source of the modern Enneagram, okay, which he originally

23:21 called the Enneagram of personality.

23:24 So in 1968, Achazzo founded something called the Erika school that's A R I C A, the Erika

23:29 school, which was part of the human potential movement or HPM, okay.

23:33 So here's a description from a magazine article from the 1970s of the Erika school, quote,

23:38 a body of techniques for cosmic consciousness raising and an ideology to relate to the world

23:43 in an awakened way, okay.

23:46 So most of Achazzo's work was done outside of the United States until he came here in

23:49 the 1970s.

23:50 And when he came here in the 1970s, that's where he met this third guy.

23:54 We're going to talk about Claudio Naranjo, okay.

23:56 So he died in 2019, but Claudio Naranjo is a Chilean psychiatrist and psycho spiritual

24:02 teacher.

24:03 Most of his work was done in the 1970s.

24:05 He essentially learned everything that he knew about the Enneagram of personality from

24:09 Achazzo in the 1970s.

24:12 So he took what he learned from Achazzo and further developed it and taught it in the

24:16 United States.

24:17 He specifically did this at the Essalyn Institute and to his students at, wait for it, Berkeley,

24:23 California.

24:24 So the repository of all things stupid in America, but let's go back to the Essalyn Institute.

24:28 So what in the world is that?

24:29 That is a nonprofit retreat center and community in Big Sur, California, okay?

24:34 So what do they focus on there?

24:35 They focus on a humanistic alternative education.

24:39 So if you're not aware, humanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the individual and maintains

24:44 that the starting point for all morality and all values is each individual, okay?

24:50 Each individual.

24:51 Now, if all that wasn't enough, I've got an absolute doozy for you, okay?

24:56 So back in 2010, Claudio Naranho was doing an interview with some fellows about his new

25:01 book that he released called Healing Civilization.

25:04 During that interview, Naranho got onto the topic of the origin of the Enneagram, right?

25:09 Because, you know, some people thought, oh, it's kind of settled where it came from,

25:12 but he's like, no, we're going to talk about this.

25:14 So this is what he said during the interview.

25:16 He was talking about presenting at a conference in Brazil for the IEA, which is the International

25:20 Enneagram Association.

25:22 So Naranho said that a Chazo, the guy that taught him the Enneagram, used to claim that

25:27 he got the Enneagram from very ancient sources like the Babylonians.

25:31 But then Naranho said that a Chazo later changed his tune to claim that he got the Enneagram

25:36 from a higher source, right?

25:38 So from Revelation, then Naranho said that a Chazo stopped distinguishing between what

25:44 knowledge he got from ancient sources and what knowledge he got from supposed at higher

25:48 sources, and then Naranho in this video openly joked about how he then adopted this way of

25:54 operating.

25:55 He even used a Oscar Wilde quote, which was something to the effect of, if you want an

25:59 idea to become famous, attribute it to a famous person.

26:02 So go back to the IEA conference that he did in Brazil.

26:05 Naranho told this audience, right, this audience of Enneagram proponents, that he made up the

26:12 fact that the Enneagram had ancient historic origins from millennia ago.

26:17 So the main guy who got the Enneagram to us in modernity said he made up the fact that

26:22 it has ancient historic origins.

26:25 A lot of you have been sold that, oh, this is just, this is knowledge from the universe

26:28 that we've had for a long time.

26:30 He basically says, nah, I just made it up.

26:33 And then he makes a startling claim, okay?

26:37 Naranho claims that his teacher, his mentor, a Chazo, never once taught about any of the

26:44 nine Enneotypes associated with the modern Enneagram.

26:48 So the guy that taught Naranho, those supposedly, those Enneotypes, the pupil, the student

26:55 said, no, he never taught us that.

26:57 Naranho then says in the interview that he literally made up the Enneotypes.

27:03 He made them up and he did that based on his own observation, okay?

27:08 So all that is enough to really kind of give us pause on the Enneagram, but this is where

27:13 the face melting begins because I need to show you this clip real quick and I'll read

27:18 it because the audio is not amazing, but I'm going to show you this short clip.

27:21 This is from this interview and the entire interview I will put in the show notes.

27:24 And this is about three minutes and 49 seconds in, but listen to this short, short clip again,

27:30 he just got through saying that he made up the nine Enneotypes that a Chazo didn't give

27:34 them to him or teach them that he just made up these nine Enneotypes and he confirmed

27:38 them with his own personal observation.

27:40 So listen to this clip here.

28:04 So if you couldn't really hear that, if that was a little bit hard to hear, let me just

28:07 go ahead and give you the transcription here, Naranho.

28:10 So that came from my own observations, but mostly from automatic writing, interviewer,

28:16 automatic writing, Naranho.

28:18 Yeah, it came to me from automatic writing, interviewer, what did Naranho, the specific

28:25 information about Enneotypes, which I then verified through observation because I was

28:30 surrounded by people I was teaching and exploring with.

28:33 I'm going to chuck my headphones because something's going on and I got a little bit of an echo.

28:38 But if you're wondering what automatic writing is, the technical term is psychography, okay?

28:44 This is tapping into the spiritual realm using the tactics of a psychic, okay?

28:51 How this works is that a person participating in this type of activity typically will hold

28:56 a writing utensil of some kind and get some sort of thing to write on and they will summon

29:01 spirits to manipulate their hand, the practitioner's hand, in order to convey a message from the

29:08 outer world, okay?

29:11 Perhaps you've heard of one of these types in one of these devices.

29:14 It's called a Ouija board, right?

29:16 Remember back in the day when you'd go over to your friend's house, watch a scary movie

29:20 and then everybody would put their hand on the little thing that moved around and would

29:23 try to spell out a message to you.

29:25 So here's the thing.

29:27 When you do automatic writing, when you summon one of these, you know, other worldly spirits,

29:33 this might actually be the guys, this might actually be the key to the whole thing today.

29:38 But people do literally receive messages in this way.

29:43 Did you know that?

29:44 Did you know that the psych psychics and sorcerers and necromancers and these types of people,

29:49 these people do literally receive messages.

29:54 They will literally receive notions, ideas, philosophies that come off as coherent, that

30:00 come off as useful and come off as helpful.

30:03 That absolutely happens.

30:06 But this begs the question guys, where do you think these notions and ideas and philosophies

30:10 are coming from during automatic writing?

30:14 It's obviously coming from demons.

30:16 It's coming from demonic sources.

30:18 They're having people that are trying to connect to spirits that are outside of this world

30:24 and they do so and they get stuff that is actually helpful and coherent, but it's not

30:29 coming from a godly source, it's coming from demons.

30:32 So as I was going through the research, there's this woman named Doreen virtue.

30:36 So she used to be one of the top selling new age authors in the world.

30:41 So she used to be a practicing psychotherapist that would administer personality tests to

30:45 her patients, like the Indian gram, like the Myers Briggs, Myers Briggs is another personality

30:49 test with very sketchy origins.

30:51 I don't have time to get into that today, but that was until Jesus saved her, okay?

30:54 So she's now a Christian evangelist with a master's in biblical and theological studies

30:58 from Western seminary and one of her primary focuses is waking naive Christians up as to

31:03 the dangers of new age philosophies and how that's kind of creeping in to a lot of different

31:08 denominations and sects of Christianity, okay?

31:11 I've heard her speak several times and I've heard her speak on how she participated in

31:16 automatic writing throughout her career.

31:19 She did this while she was writing her new age bestseller.

31:21 So she would literally summon spirits from the from outer worlds and it would give her

31:26 written down things, right?

31:29 Only now that she is a repentant Christian, does she realize that the fruits that came

31:33 from her automatic writing sessions came from demonic sources because only through the lens

31:38 of the gospel and the new life she's been given via the blood of Christ can she even

31:42 understand what was going on during those sessions.

31:46 So Naranho made up the anyotypes after a session of essentially being temporarily possessed

31:54 by a demon that he himself summoned.

31:58 And the craziest thing about all this is almost no one has ever heard any of this stuff.

32:03 Again, this is why I went so far down the rabbit hole.

32:06 So let me give you a little bit of a summary right here before we move on with talking

32:09 about the Enochram.

32:10 So the tripartite godfathers of the Enochram that's Gertrifficciaso and Naranho, they created

32:17 this personality philosophy using the direct influences of esotericism, occultism, witchcraft,

32:26 mysticism, magic, Islam, Sufism, Hinduism, Buddhism, humanism, paganism and demonism.

32:35 Does anybody see any red flags from the list I just went through?

32:45 Again, esotericism, occultism, witchcraft, mysticism, magic, Islam, Sufism, Hinduism,

32:51 Buddhism, humanism, paganism, demonism.

32:54 That's where the Enochram comes from.

32:56 So you might ask yourself, so how do the demonic works of Gertrifficciaso and Naranho somehow

33:02 infiltrate the modern Christian church?

33:05 Well, two of Naranho's students were actually Jesuit priests as well.

33:10 So Naranho taught them both how to use and apply the Enochram, and those two students

33:15 went on to adapt the Enochram to using Christian spirituality programs at Loyola University.

33:22 That's where it started.

33:24 And then we got some more gasoline thrown on the fire in the early 2000s and 2001.

33:29 The best-selling Franciscan friar and author named Reverend Richard Rohr wrote the Enochram

33:34 a Christian perspective.

33:35 So that book was the one that started really the tidal wave of popularity of the Enochram

33:40 specifically in modern Christian.

33:42 Okay?

33:43 There again are literally hundreds of books available now that attempt to combine Christianity

33:48 and the Enochram.

33:50 And likely millions of Christians today, like me, have taken the Enochram test and have

33:55 at least in some way applied it to how they can pour themselves in the world.

33:59 And so that's where we are now.

34:01 We didn't get here all at once, but we just got here kind of one little step at a time.

34:06 Now I can already hear some of the objections already.

34:09 So if this is you, save the email because I'm going to answer your objection right now.

34:13 Well, then Kyle, I bet you don't let your kids dress up and trick or treat for Halloween

34:17 because of the demonic origins of the holiday.

34:20 Or hey, Kyle, what about yoga?

34:22 I've heard you say before that you've done that.

34:24 Yoga has roots in New Age and occultism and Eastern mysticism and a bunch of other stuff.

34:28 I bet you, well, are you going to say we shouldn't do yoga anymore?

34:32 So you might think that you have me there, but you definitely don't because I think that

34:36 those of you that think that the Enochram and Halloween and yoga, you think that they're

34:42 fundamentally the same and superficially different, but the arguments here are exactly the opposite.

34:47 The exact opposite is true.

34:49 Those things are fundamentally different and only superficially the same.

34:52 So let's talk about Halloween.

34:53 I could do a whole episode on this, but I'm just going to go quickly because we need to

34:56 also get to a lot of other stuff in this episode, but the modern observance of Halloween is,

35:03 with very few exceptions, completely devoid and separated from the influence of pagan

35:09 Celtic harvest festivals or a cultic death worship.

35:14 Like our church does, I don't even know what they call it, but it's basically a trunk or

35:17 treat.

35:18 Yeah, it's in our parking lot.

35:19 And so all the kids and some of the parents dress up, they dress up as Woody from Toy Story

35:23 and they dress up as dinosaurs and whatever else, and then we have these games that we've

35:27 set up in the parking lot that they get to play and if they win, they get candy and we

35:31 do a chili hook off and there's pie eating and there's, there's all these different

35:34 things.

35:35 It's basically a fall festival that is completely separated from the Celtic harvest festivals

35:41 and a cultic death worship completely.

35:43 And that is how most people celebrate Halloween.

35:45 Do certain people help celebrate the demonic origins of that?

35:49 Yes, but almost everybody has separated it off to create it, something that's just fun

35:53 for the family.

35:54 Then you got yoga.

35:56 Does yoga have roots and traditions in things like Hinduism and Buddhism and Jainism and

36:00 New Age and all that stuff?

36:02 Yes, it does.

36:04 Do you have to practice Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism or New Age in order to do yoga, a

36:10 yoga routine?

36:11 No, of course not.

36:14 Why?

36:15 Because the physical act of performing the stretches and holds that are part of a typical

36:20 yoga routine can and are often separated completely from the religious aspects of the yoga practice.

36:28 Because guess what?

36:29 If you're a guy out there and there's a lot of you that you have some low back pain,

36:32 it's probably because you have really, really tight hips and hamstrings.

36:34 You know, it's great for tight hips and hamstrings, different yoga routines that will open up

36:39 your hips and hamstrings.

36:40 Now, if you hook your ponytail to a tree and you do some ohms and you face the east and

36:45 you turn into a spiritual practice, then yeah, you're playing with the occult like you're

36:50 playing with religions that are not of the religion you purport to have, which is Christianity.

36:56 So in a nutshell, the origins and traditions of Halloween can and are for many separated

37:01 from the modern observance of Halloween and the origins and traditions of yoga practice

37:05 can and are for many separated from the modern physical performance of yoga routines for

37:09 bodily health.

37:11 But the origins and traditions of the Enneagram cannot be separated from how people choose

37:16 to use the Enneagram and modern society.

37:19 And that's because sprinkling Bible verses over the top of the Enneagram simply does

37:24 not take away the clearly demonic origins it has.

37:28 Like it doesn't matter how much powdered sugar you put on top of a pile of dog poop,

37:32 you're still eating poop, right?

37:34 Now, something else that I'm sure some of you are thinking is Kyle, you've been talking

37:39 about this for over a half hour, is this really the hill to die on the Enneagram, really?

37:45 To which I would answer no, this isn't the hill to die on.

37:50 As I've said before, I will die on the hill of protecting the unborn from slaughter.

37:54 I'll die on that hill, certainly.

37:56 I'll die on the hill of protecting kids from profit driven children's hospitals and LGBTQ

38:02 culture warriors that are all too eager to bodily mutilate and chemically castrate gender

38:06 confused minors.

38:07 Yeah, I'll die on that hill.

38:10 But I would turn that question around on you and ask you this, why are you so comfortable

38:16 with Christians being so damn gullible?

38:20 Why do you think this is something that should just be ignored?

38:25 What makes you think this is a nothing burger?

38:28 Because we will literally follow our stupid hearts and our dumb brains and believe just

38:33 about anything that anyone teaches us without running it through the filter of a biblically

38:37 informed Christian ethic.

38:39 We do this with so many things.

38:41 The Enneagram is just one of those things.

38:45 So what I want to transition into now is talking about why Christians should not utilize the

38:51 Enneagram at all in their lives.

38:53 Okay, I'm going to give you five reasons.

38:55 We'll go through these pretty quick and you might find that any one of the following is

39:00 enough to disqualify its use in your life personally or your business or whatever.

39:04 But certainly the combination of these reasons is reason enough to disqualify the use of

39:08 the Enneagram.

39:09 So here's number one.

39:10 The number one reason these are in any order, but number one, why Christians should not

39:13 utilize the Enneagram in their lives is it has clear demonic origins that cannot be separated

39:18 from its modern application.

39:19 Okay.

39:20 The Enneagram is not something that you can simply eat the fish and spit out the bones.

39:24 You can't do that.

39:25 Number two, it has no backing in scientific or psychological data.

39:31 So there's nothing at all that proves that this works in any way, shape, or form other

39:35 than anecdotes.

39:36 Number three, it demands that we focus internally to attain a personal understanding of capital

39:44 K knowledge and capital T truth.

39:46 Again, as I said earlier, it's Gnosticism because we should not be trying to go internally to

39:52 find truth within ourselves.

39:54 This whole my truth concept because that is completely anathema to a Christian understanding

39:59 of the world.

40:00 Okay.

40:01 Number four.

40:02 And this is a big one.

40:03 Okay.

40:04 It provides us an excuse to find our identity in our anya type and not in Christ, which gives

40:12 us license to keep on sinning.

40:14 I mean, I've literally heard people say this, well, I'm just an Enneagram eight.

40:19 So I can't help it.

40:20 Whoopsies.

40:22 Just the way I am, just the way God made me.

40:25 I was born this way, someone and so forth.

40:28 Now we would not give any credence to those arguments in any other area of life.

40:32 So if someone's like, Oh, I was born this way, I'm gay, you'd be like, no.

40:37 You are currently being attacked from Satan and dark forces.

40:41 And you're being attacked with same sex attraction.

40:42 You're not actually homosexual.

40:44 Again, we wouldn't accept that, but someone's like, Oh, I'm an Enneagram too.

40:48 And we're like, gosh, that makes sense.

40:50 You got me there.

40:51 Some card and the fifth reason here is the Enneagram is antithetical to a Bible based

40:59 way of doing life.

41:01 And it's simply not redeemable.

41:05 It's not redeemable.

41:06 Again, I talk about accept, reject, redeem.

41:09 There are things that we should just outright accept.

41:10 There's some things that we should outright reject and there's some things that we should

41:13 redeem that is, you know, eating the fish and spitting out the bones.

41:16 But this is not something that can be redeemed.

41:18 And I think I've proved it to you up to this point, right?

41:21 I mean, some of us have become experts in our enneotype, but we know nothing about the

41:27 word of God.

41:28 And when I was doing this, you know, business consultation stuff, I was an expert on my Enneagram

41:33 type and the Enneagram types of other people, but I wasn't spending almost any time in the

41:36 word whatsoever, like at all.

41:41 So if you're a Christian and you decide to use the Enneagram, are you sinning?

41:47 Yes.

41:48 I remember when I was preparing this episode, I wasn't going to say yes.

41:52 I was going to say, Oh, I guess it depends.

41:54 But the more I research, it's like, well, yeah, clearly, I don't see a great argument

41:58 for how it's not.

42:00 If you're a Christian and you know the information that I've given you and you still decide to

42:03 use it, you are sinning because God is clear in his word that we are to avoid such things.

42:10 So if I go to Leviticus 20 verse six, if a person turns to mediums and necromancers pouring

42:16 after them, I will set my face against that person and we'll cut him off from among his

42:21 people.

42:22 And for all you people that dismiss everything in the Old Testament, because you think Andy

42:25 Stanley smart, because you think, you know, that's part of the old covenant, I don't need

42:28 to pay attention to it.

42:29 Let's see what Paul has to say in Galatians five versus 19 through 21.

42:33 Now the works of the flesh are evident, sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry,

42:39 sorcery, imnity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy

42:44 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these, I warn you as I warned you before that those

42:49 who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

42:53 It is sinful to use something with such demonic origins now that you know it's origins.

43:01 All of you listening to this right now cannot claim ignorance.

43:04 I have disabuse you of your ignorance on the subject, okay?

43:08 And you now have to reckon with the truth that I have brought before you today and make

43:12 a conscious decision on how to act moving forward.

43:16 So some of you may need to repent for using the Enneagram and for the amount of emphasis

43:22 that you put it in it for your life personally.

43:26 This is what I've had to do.

43:28 Excuse me, because whenever I was looking back on the amount of emphasis I put on the

43:32 Enneagram, I looked back on it after I learned all this in just complete shame.

43:37 But we're not supposed to stay in our shame and wallow in our shame because I just gave

43:41 that to God and I repented, I asked for forgiveness specifically for the sin of using the Enneagram

43:47 in my life and taking that to other people.

43:51 Some people that was also trying to share the gospel with, how confusing, right?

43:55 So some of you need to repent for using the Enneagram like I have.

43:58 Some of you may need to just mark and avoid the Enneagram moving forward.

44:02 So if someone's like, hey, do you want to take this test?

44:04 You just say no.

44:05 Does that work?

44:06 If it's in a social setting, just say no and give them the reasons.

44:09 Some of you don't need to change anything because you've never heard of the Enneagram

44:12 before today.

44:13 You don't even take personality tests and you've had no idea what I've been talking

44:16 about for like the last 40 minutes or so.

44:18 So those are some of you.

44:20 But there's another point as we wrap up our discussion of the Enneagram and move on.

44:24 There are so many other quality personality profile is profiles and tests out there that

44:29 you can use to help you in relationships and business that don't have all the demonic baggage

44:34 that the Enneagram does.

44:35 Like when I talk to people that are like, oh, yeah, but the Enneagram is just so good.

44:39 Is it the only one that's good?

44:41 Is it the only one that's helpful?

44:43 Is that the only one you can use in your church or in your business or in your relationship?

44:47 Like, there's a lot that can replace it.

44:50 So I'm going to give you a few just off the top of my head as I was doing research.

44:53 These are ones that I found to be very, very useful.

44:55 Now all the ones I'm about to suggest are their generic personality tests.

44:59 Some have more of an emphasis on or focus on psychology, some on business, some on relationships,

45:04 but they can be used in a myriad of applications.

45:06 The first one is the big five.

45:08 So the big five looks at openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism.

45:13 And so just so I can kind of give you an idea of where I'm at on all these, if you're curious.

45:17 So my number one is extroversion, extroversion, I scored 100% on extroversion.

45:22 Number two at 87 and a half percent was conscientiousness.

45:25 Number three at 79% was openness.

45:27 Number four at 62 and a half percent was neuroticism and way down a 21% was agreeableness, which

45:34 is a shock to nobody.

45:35 The next one that I think is important is the cliff and strengths that used to be called

45:38 strengths finder.

45:39 So that focuses on strengths themes that are sorted into four different domains.

45:44 That strategic thinking, relationship building, influencing, and executing or executing, sorry,

45:50 executing.

45:51 So the last time I did this was over a decade ago, but my number one was achiever, my number

45:55 two was command, my number three was focus, my number four was competition, my number five

45:59 was significance.

46:00 I think there's like 40 or 45 different things that you could get, but I'm sure mine's pretty

46:04 much the same.

46:05 But then there's also the disk profile, that's capital D, lowercase I, capital S, capital

46:10 C, don't know why it is that way, but it is that way.

46:12 That looks at how you fit your into kind of four different personality types.

46:16 So there's dominance, influence, steadiness, and conscientiousness and you're either like

46:20 high or low in those areas, and I'm high dominance, high D.

46:24 And then the last one is the five love languages, five love languages.

46:27 So a lot of you guys have done that, especially if you got your Christian counseling before

46:31 you got married, but that looks at a preference for words of affirmation, acts of service,

46:36 receiving gifts, quality time, and physical touch, okay?

46:40 So mine are the order that I just read them in.

46:42 So my number one is words of affirmation right behind his acts of service, receiving gifts

46:46 is right up there.

46:47 And then there's kind of a big gap.

46:48 And then there's quality time and then physical touch.

46:50 So fricking don't touch me, right?

46:51 That's probably has to do with jujitsu because it's like typically when people are touching

46:54 me, they're trying to throw me on my head and then choke me unconscious.

46:57 But and again, the five level love languages doesn't have this big like data set, but it

47:01 is helpful for a lot of families and specifically in a marriage context.

47:06 So as we enter a discussion of the Enneagram, I promise we're ending it here.

47:09 I want to bring you a couple of scriptures.

47:11 The first is first Peter five eight.

47:13 This is when I gave you from the beginning be so reminded, be watchful.

47:16 Your adversary, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.

47:24 The thing is, is Satan's not dumb.

47:28 He's defeated, but he's not dumb.

47:31 And when he's prowling around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour, he's not

47:36 just going to do that by just going around acting crazy.

47:39 He's hunting, right?

47:40 And if you're not so reminded and if you're not watchful, he might get you.

47:45 And then we have a fission six, 12, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but

47:49 against the rulers against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present

47:53 darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

47:57 A lot of you go to churches that doesn't talk about spiritual warfare at all, because

48:01 most Christian churches don't talk about spiritual warfare at all.

48:05 So you're completely ill-equipped to be so reminded and be watchful, because you think

48:10 we're wrestling against flesh and blood.

48:13 You think, well, I trust this guy or gal that administered this test to me.

48:17 I trust these authors and I seem to be getting value out of this.

48:21 But Satan and his demons are very, very cunning.

48:25 They're very shrewd and they're smooth, they're smooth operators.

48:29 And so they've been able to put this demonic thing in such a beautiful little package.

48:37 Just sneak it into a bunch of Christian's lives and again, Christians are looking at

48:41 this and they're basing how they operate in the world, how they treat their spouses,

48:45 how they raise their family, how they study the Bible, they're looking at it through the

48:49 lens of themselves and they're any type.

48:53 So think about this, I'd say all the time, the Bible's not about us.

48:56 The Bible's for us, but it's not about us.

48:59 But if you're taking, I'm an Enneagram five to your Bible study because you're like, well,

49:05 this is kind of where I'm at.

49:06 You're practicing standpoint epistemology, which means because of who you are and you're

49:11 upbringing and you're immutable characteristics, you're going to understand the world differently

49:16 than everybody else.

49:17 Not that you've had different experiences because obviously that's true of everyone,

49:20 but that you have some sort of specialized knowledge, again, that standpoint of epistemology,

49:24 which is essentially Gnosticism.

49:27 So guys, I can't really yell at you enough about this.

49:31 You've got to take this seriously.

49:33 You cannot use the Enneagram whatsoever.

49:37 If you do, you're sinning, you need to stop, need to repent.

49:41 There you go.

49:42 Hey guys, real quick here recently, I went on a hunting trip with a group of guys and one

49:46 of the guys had lost 50 pounds on the carnivore diet.

49:50 And some of you guys don't need to lose a bunch of weight, but you're trying to maximize your

49:53 overall health.

49:54 And a lot of you are experimenting like me with the carnivore diet.

49:57 But the problem is, is you don't have a cattle operation that you can trust to get you high

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50:02 And that's why I want to introduce you to my friends, the official beef delivery partner

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50:09 Primal Beef is a cattle operation owned and operated by Sean Glass.

50:12 There's a retired Navy Seal that has partnered with Jocko Willing to launch Primal Beef.

50:16 So what makes Primal Beef different from other fly by night beef delivery companies?

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51:19 So let's go ahead and transition now into the quick hitters.

51:21 I know we spend a lot of time on that, but let's hit these last four things here.

51:24 Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, vetoing a bill that would have banned the bodily mutilation

51:28 and chemical castration of trans-identified children in his state, in his state.

51:32 So this is according to the Daily Wire.

51:34 Governor Mike DeWine, Republican of Ohio, signed a limited executive order on Friday.

51:39 This is last Friday, banning transgender surgeries on children just one week after he vetoed

51:44 a bill that would have prohibited all transgender procedures on minors.

51:48 DeWine's executive order comes as Republicans in the state pushed to override his veto of

51:52 the saving adolescents from Experimentation Act HB 68, a bill that would have protected

51:57 children from transgender surgeries as well as puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones,

52:01 which have life-altering impacts and can harm fertility, bone development and heart health.

52:07 There's a broad, broad consensus against surgeries for minors.

52:10 So let's put that into law so that we can move on and talk about other things DeWine

52:13 said on Friday after facing sharp criticism over his veto from Republicans like Senator

52:18 J.D. Vance, and former President Donald Trump.

52:21 The statehouse representative is expected to vote next week, that's this week, to override

52:26 DeWine's veto of the bill, which also would have kept men out of women's sports.

52:31 So guys, I think I can say this by the time this comes out, they may have already done

52:34 so.

52:35 So again, I'm recording this on Tuesday.

52:36 It's coming out a couple of days from now.

52:38 Rest assured that the Ohio legislature will override this evil pansies veto, and this

52:43 law.

52:44 Thank God will go into effect.

52:45 So the young people of Ohio will be safe from boys in their locker rooms and, you know,

52:51 gender confused teenagers having their junk cut off.

52:53 Okay.

52:54 But my big takeaway on this story is he's obviously a gutless coward, but now he's a gutless

52:59 coward in both directions, right?

53:02 So he takes some heat from the transgender lobby and profit-driven hospitals that bribed

53:08 him to make him veto the bill.

53:10 The guy has gotten like tens of thousands of dollars specifically from children's hospitals

53:14 in Ohio that do these procedures.

53:16 And then he takes some heat from conservatives, and then he tries to split the baby by doing

53:20 this worthless executive order because when you veto a law, you have to basically hit the

53:25 reset button and come up with as a legislature come up with something completely different.

53:29 So when you do an executive order, you know what it takes to get rid of an executive order?

53:33 The next person that comes into office going, "That's gone now," takes me back to the Trump

53:38 presidency.

53:39 When he had all these executive orders, you all were so excited about, you know, when

53:41 those executive orders expired, the first day of Joe Biden's presidency, these executive

53:46 orders are great, but they're only great temporarily.

53:49 And there's another big takeaway on this one before we move off.

53:52 How much longer can we expect for Americans to just keep electing these spineless, non-conservative

53:59 immoral, cowardly Republicans that have no convictions?

54:06 How much longer are we going to allow people that we elected to represent us to operate

54:11 in this way?

54:13 Because this is all I hear.

54:14 You know, I hear people locally complaining about national elections, and it's like,

54:18 okay, well, you know, how about you worry about what's happening in your own city?

54:21 I talked about that in the episode earlier this year, but we will elect someone mayor.

54:25 They will do things that we don't like, and then we will elect them again as mayor.

54:31 We will vote for somebody to represent us as a United States senator, and then they go

54:35 to Washington and they literally vote in a way that you think is abhorrent and immoral

54:39 and immoral.

54:40 And you still vote for these people.

54:42 Like, when are we going to hold these people accountable?

54:45 Because true accountability in a political sense is done at the ballot box.

54:49 It's not done by riding.

54:50 It's not done by breaking into the Capitol.

54:52 It's not done by throwing bricks, it's not done by posting things on Twitter.

54:56 It's out the ballot box.

54:58 Stop voting for these people.

55:00 If they trick you into thinking like, no, I'm, I'm not a spineless and moral coward.

55:07 If they trick you, whenever they prove you wrong, whenever they prove that they are indeed

55:12 a spineless coward, that's not going to do things.

55:14 The most simple thing, which is to protect children in your state, we have to get rid

55:18 of them.

55:19 And we do that by getting them out of office.

55:22 So this is his second term.

55:24 As far as I understand, so he doesn't have another term that he's going for.

55:27 But if you live in Ohio, you should call your state representative, right?

55:31 And if you want to call your senator and house rep as well, you us house rep, go for it.

55:37 He needs to be removed from office.

55:40 He should not be able to sit in the governor's mansion one second longer than he needs to

55:46 get him out of office.

55:48 If this had happened in Oklahoma, if Stitt had done this, if Kevin Stitt, our governor

55:53 had done this, I would be moving heaven and earth to get him removed from office.

55:58 Because he's in his second term.

55:59 He's not going to get a third, right?

56:01 Because we don't, we don't allow for that in Oklahoma.

56:03 That's what I would be moving for.

56:04 That's what all Ohioans should be doing.

56:07 Our next quick hitter here, Harvard president Claudine Gay resigning after failing to condemn

56:11 anti-Semitism on campus at Harvard and after revelations of intentional plagiarism in roughly

56:17 half of her scholarly works, such a dumb story.

56:19 This is also according to the daily wire, Claudine Gay resigned as president of Harvard

56:23 University on Tuesday.

56:24 This was January the second in a letter to the university community as first reported

56:28 by the Harvard Crimson, gays reported resignation comes in the wake of numerous plagiarism allegations

56:33 as well as her controversial congressional testimony on what Harvard is doing to combat

56:37 anti-Semitism on campus after Hamas's attacks on Israel.

56:41 And then the article just kind of details some of the things that she said in her statement,

56:44 which were essentially useless, worthless platitudes, but we'll get back into the article

56:48 here, then gay tried to diminish the allegations against her by claiming racial animus had

56:53 fueled some of the criticism against her surprise surprise, quote, amidst all of this, it has

56:57 been distressing to have doubts cast on my commitments to confronting hate and upholding

57:02 scholarly rigor to bedrock values that are fundamental to who I am and frightening to

57:06 be subjugated to personal attacks and threats fueled by racial animus, unquote, gay has

57:12 been hit with nearly 50 allegations of plagiarism affecting eight of her 17 published works.

57:19 So one quick note on that, she has 17 published works and she was made president of the most

57:25 famous university on the planet.

57:28 You never see that.

57:31 When you see these presidents of these Ivy League institutions, these people have well

57:37 over a hundred published works.

57:39 They are experts in a particular field in her field, her 17 published works were all on

57:45 the plight of black people in America.

57:47 It was all, you know, racial grievance stuff.

57:49 It wasn't even actual scholarship.

57:51 So the reaction has been how what you would expect.

57:53 So there are a bunch of morons are like, Oh, this is clearly racism.

57:56 They're trying.

57:57 This is a modern day lynching.

57:58 This is terrible.

57:59 This is awful.

58:00 They wouldn't have done this if she wasn't a black woman, those types of things.

58:02 And then there were a lot of people on the right that said, like, this is, this is great.

58:06 Like, this is fine, you know, obviously, like we should be doing this with more university

58:11 presidents, regardless of their immutable characteristics.

58:14 And then the AP, the all associated press, they said that the right.

58:18 So people on the right are using this new conservative weapon called plagiarism.

58:21 It's like, what, what?

58:24 Because this is what I know.

58:26 If I is a freshman at the University of Central Oklahoma and my English comp two class or

58:30 something like that, if I had done exactly what Claudine Gay would have done and my professor

58:35 found out, you know what would have happened?

58:38 I would have at minimum got an F for the course.

58:41 I also could have got what's called an X F or an X, which basically means you failed a class

58:46 because you were caught cheating.

58:48 I would have lost my full ride scholarship.

58:50 And I could have even been kicked out of the university.

58:53 That's how serious plagiarism is taken every, everywhere in academia, except apparently

58:59 at the most famous educational institutional planet earth.

59:03 Now earlier, I said that she intentionally plagiarized.

59:05 So I am imputing motive to a person.

59:08 The reason why I say that she intentionally plagiarized is because there's really only

59:11 three potential options here.

59:13 There's only three.

59:14 Number one, Claudine Gay is literally so stupid and so bad at being an academic that she has

59:19 no idea how to properly cite things.

59:22 That's option one.

59:24 Option two, she is simultaneously bad as sighty things about half of the time while blatantly

59:30 plagiarizing the other half of the time or the third option, which is obviously the most

59:34 reasonable, which is that she's just an outright blatant plagiarist that she didn't just forget

59:39 to use, you know, quotes, she didn't just forget to attribute it in her bibliography.

59:44 She knew what she was doing.

59:45 She was taking whole sections of other people's work, changing out a few verb tenses and things

59:49 here or there, prepositions and just jamming it into her nonsense, scholarly work.

59:54 So if you're a Claudine gay fan, though, you don't need to worry because she is being allowed

1:00:00 to go back to being a professor at Harvard, another job that she never should have gotten

1:00:04 in the first place.

1:00:06 And she's going to keep her presidential salary of $900,000.

1:00:13 So think about what you make in a year and then think about somebody who's not even a

1:00:17 real academic getting paid $900,000 a year to teach mainly white kids and Asians that

1:00:22 they're awful, terrible, and that they're a plus are pressing people of color.

1:00:29 That's essentially her job.

1:00:30 So my big takeaway on this one, kind of a little bit of a shift here, vicious animals

1:00:37 fight their fiercest right before they are killed.

1:00:41 DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion is on the ropes right now.

1:00:48 People are already ordering the flowers for its funeral.

1:00:51 But let me warn you to watch out because I feel like we ain't seen nothing yet because

1:00:56 I would love to see DEI out of everything.

1:00:59 I'm super proud of my governor Kevin Stitt, second mention on the show for basically getting

1:01:03 rid of all DEI apartments and higher education institutions in my state.

1:01:06 I think every red governor should do that.

1:01:08 It's the lowest hanging of low hanging fruit.

1:01:10 These things are nonsense.

1:01:11 Now these universities are just going to get rid of these departments entirely.

1:01:14 They're just going to change the names of it, kind of like they don't call it wokeism

1:01:17 or Black Lives Matterism, they call it social emotional learning, right?

1:01:21 So they just kind of change it up so that they kind of play shell games with it.

1:01:25 But I feel like we're going to see the woke folk, the people that are far on the left

1:01:30 wing, that love DEI and think that everything can be explained by your standpoint based

1:01:35 on your immutable characteristic of the level of melanin in your skin.

1:01:38 I feel like these people are going to go nuts.

1:01:39 I feel like they're going to do.

1:01:41 It's kind of like Michael Scott when he was dating the secretary's mom there for a little

1:01:46 bit, Pam's mom and he's like, you know what, I'm going to date her even harder, right?

1:01:50 Because she hated the fact that it was, you know, that he was dating her mom.

1:01:53 I feel like that's what's going to happen.

1:01:55 They're going to be like, oh, all you people on the right, you finally noticed and caught

1:01:58 on to what we were doing.

1:02:00 Well now guess what?

1:02:01 Suck it.

1:02:02 We're going to make you just like take this no matter what, we're going to keep shoving

1:02:04 it down your throats.

1:02:06 If they do that, you know what you should do, mom and dad, stop paying for your kids

1:02:10 tuition to go to one of those schools that's trying to marinate them in these demonic,

1:02:14 horrific ideas.

1:02:16 Stop doing it.

1:02:17 If you have kids like mine, three year old and a one year old, don't plan to just send

1:02:21 them to college to just go and discover themselves and go to some football games.

1:02:25 Don't just mindlessly do that.

1:02:27 They want to be an engineer.

1:02:28 They want to be a doctor.

1:02:29 They want to be a lawyer.

1:02:30 If they want to do something like that, actually study something maybe in the STEM fields.

1:02:34 Yeah, they need to go to college to get that, but if they're just going to go and get a communication

1:02:39 degree or an English degree or something like that, there are other roads to get to the job

1:02:42 that you want.

1:02:43 And most people just want to make a lot of money.

1:02:46 And so tell your kid to skip school, go to trade school, become a plumber or a electrician

1:02:50 or a welder or something like that.

1:02:52 Within a few years out of school, they're going to be making six figures and probably

1:02:54 employing other people and, you know, providing for other families, not just their own.

1:02:59 So just be prepared.

1:03:01 I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

1:03:03 All right.

1:03:04 Next quick hitter here, Donald Trump being removed from the Republican primary ballot

1:03:07 in Colorado and Maine.

1:03:09 So this is according to Fox News, Maine's Democratic Secretary of State on Thursday.

1:03:13 This was a couple of Thursdays ago, disqualified former president Trump from the state's presidential

1:03:17 primary ballot and her ruling secretary of state Shina Bellows, Shina Bellows, whatever,

1:03:23 cited section three of the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, which bans from office,

1:03:28 those who engaged in insurrection.

1:03:30 So the reaction is, as you would expect, Trump is obviously appealing.

1:03:34 People on the left love it.

1:03:35 They think this is great.

1:03:36 People on the right, especially Magga Trumpers, they think it's the worst thing that's ever

1:03:39 happened whatsoever.

1:03:40 This is very likely going to the Supreme Court. I think they've already indicated that it's

1:03:44 going to go there.

1:03:45 They've indicated that they they have to kind of figure this out and make a ruling as quickly

1:03:48 as possible because a lot of these primaries are forthcoming.

1:03:52 They're right on the heels of a lot of these things, and so they're going to have to make

1:03:55 a ruling on this.

1:03:56 I'm interested in the ruling because the ruling should come back nine to zero that this is

1:03:59 completely unconstitutional and ridiculous.

1:04:03 If it's six, three, you know, conservatives versus non conservatives who the heck knows

1:04:07 what Justice Roberts is going to do, but this should be an eight one nine one because, you

1:04:11 know, Kentucky Brown Jackson, she's basically an activist.

1:04:13 So she's definitely not going to vote for this because no one will let her live it down,

1:04:16 but we'll see how this goes.

1:04:18 Now, I honestly think that Trump will be on all of the Republican primary bouts because

1:04:22 I think the scotus is going to throw this ruling out.

1:04:25 And regardless, even if a few blue whack jobs in blue states prevent Trumpers from voting

1:04:30 for him in the primaries, it's not going to change the outcome of the Republican primary.

1:04:34 It will win the nomination, unfortunately, I think he's just going to run away with it.

1:04:38 And we're going to see that, you know, really starting to come to fruition within the next

1:04:40 couple of months.

1:04:41 But to all of you, big time Trump supporters out there, I do have a question for you need

1:04:46 our mind you.

1:04:47 I did vote for Donald Trump in 2020, so I'm not a Trump hater outright.

1:04:50 I just call balls and strikes on the guy, but I do have a question for you.

1:04:54 Do you actually think that Democrats will stop trying to nail Trump if he's elected president?

1:05:01 Do you think they're going to stop all this?

1:05:04 Because I'm not sure that most of you have thought through this completely.

1:05:07 I'm not calling you stupid, but I don't think you've really thought this through because

1:05:12 you would have to be a fool to believe that electing him president again solves all these

1:05:16 problems because even if he's elected president, all you have done is extend his problems to

1:05:23 more focus his problems because need our mind you that he was impeached twice in four years

1:05:30 and the Democrats never even alleged high crimes nor misdemeanors, which is the standard.

1:05:36 So they ignored the standard.

1:05:37 They brought charges.

1:05:38 They knew he wasn't going to be removed from office, but they just did it anyway because

1:05:43 for funsies or something.

1:05:45 Don't you think that his entire four years would just be stymied by impeachment probe

1:05:52 after impeachment probe after impeachment charge after impeachment process because obviously

1:05:57 the Democrats would have to take the house back over, which is certainly possible.

1:06:00 And if they do so, they're probably going to still have the Senate so they could literally

1:06:04 remove him from office.

1:06:07 So if you care about America, more than you care about a single American in Donald Trump,

1:06:12 which I hope you do care about the country more than you care about just Trump, perhaps

1:06:16 you should back a candidate that doesn't have the baggage that Trump does because a candidate

1:06:21 like Rhonda Santas will do all of the positive policy things that the Trump administration

1:06:29 would have done plus more.

1:06:33 That's essentially a guarantee.

1:06:35 As we've seen with Florida, he turned a purple state into a deep red state and basically

1:06:39 everything he's tried to do from a policy perspective he's been able to do and not just

1:06:44 do it, get it completed, but did it astonishingly well?

1:06:48 Rhonda Santas isn't going to blow you away with this personality, but the dude's a winner.

1:06:52 The dude is absolutely a winner when it comes to policy and a guy like Rhonda Santas can

1:06:58 be in office for eight years instead of Trump's max of four.

1:07:02 So again, if you care about the country more than a person, you have to think about this

1:07:05 more strategically.

1:07:07 So if you want to support Donald Trump's defense fund and if you want to help him defend himself

1:07:12 from these species prosecutions, which are for the most part, all ridiculous except for

1:07:16 the one down in Florida, don't go for it, support him.

1:07:20 But when it comes to the business of getting America back on track, you need to start being

1:07:23 reasonable.

1:07:24 Now, again, I say this as a guy that if he wins the nomination, which I think he will,

1:07:28 I will vote for him.

1:07:29 I will gladly vote for him over, you know, don or Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or Michelle

1:07:35 Obama.

1:07:36 I will gladly do that, but you have to be real.

1:07:39 Trump cannot fix this country because he will be too busy trying to keep himself out

1:07:42 of prison or to get himself out of prison because he's very likely going to be convicted.

1:07:46 You know, electing Trump doesn't own the libs like you think it will.

1:07:50 But my big takeaway on this is a little bit of a shift.

1:07:53 I just don't like where any of this is going.

1:07:56 When I look at the end of 2024 and when I look at the whole run up to it, I don't like

1:08:00 what I'm hearing.

1:08:01 I don't like what I'm feeling.

1:08:03 So I mean that in a lot of ways.

1:08:05 I don't like how Democrat operatives like this state attorney general up in Maine.

1:08:09 I don't like how they are just doing communism openly now because used to it was kind of

1:08:14 like cagey communism, like, you know, it's communism hiding behind a bush, not anymore.

1:08:19 They're just outright with it now.

1:08:21 They're just, it's, they're just putting it right in your face now.

1:08:23 So I don't like that.

1:08:25 But I also don't like what I'm hearing from freedom loving, hardworking, patriotic Americans

1:08:30 about how we should or how they will respond if this keeps happening because people are

1:08:35 pointing out that the last time somebody was, you know, tried to be removed from a ballot

1:08:39 so that they couldn't win reelection was Abraham Lincoln.

1:08:41 You know what happened?

1:08:42 In the Civil War, we had all these different things that were happening like there's a

1:08:46 lot of things happening right now where people on the right are talking about things in terms

1:08:50 of a civil war.

1:08:51 They're talking about this as if this is a meltdown thing.

1:08:55 And as I mentioned before, every side right now are both sides.

1:08:59 The left and the right conservatives and liberal liberals, Democrats and Republicans, they're

1:09:03 going to feel justified in extreme actions, regardless of the outcome of the election.

1:09:10 As if Joe Biden wins, Republicans, Trumpers will think that the election was stolen and

1:09:14 that it was rigged again, even though they couldn't prove that in court last time around.

1:09:20 And then if Trump wins, every Democrat's going to be like, well, which country did he

1:09:24 collude with now?

1:09:26 Remember Russia collusion?

1:09:27 That was like a three year long thing.

1:09:29 And then they're going to feel justified in destroying the country.

1:09:32 Again, I mentioned this recently when I was in Austin during the election night in 2020,

1:09:38 all of the places downtown were boarded up.

1:09:40 Why?

1:09:41 Because the people of Austin were terrified of what Biden supporters would do if Biden

1:09:47 didn't get elected.

1:09:49 They didn't do that because of Trump.

1:09:50 Now, maybe they they should have because there was a segment of Trump supporters that did

1:09:55 actually think because they're morons, they did actually think that if they stormed the

1:09:59 Capitol that they could overturn the results of this election.

1:10:02 Whereas most of the people on January 6 were just like, well, this is kind of crazy.

1:10:05 And, you know, no one's been able to prove if it was an inside deal or not.

1:10:08 But that's the reality.

1:10:09 I don't really like what 2024 shaping up to look like, but we're going to be here for

1:10:13 every step of the way to walk you guys through it, I guess.

1:10:16 All right.

1:10:17 Last quick hitter here.

1:10:18 The release of the names of some of Jeffrey Epstein's pedophilic clients.

1:10:21 This is according to Newsweek.

1:10:22 After weeks of speculation and anticipation, many of the names of former associates, employees,

1:10:27 friends and victims of deceased sex offender Jeremy Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein rather, have

1:10:32 been released.

1:10:33 The names were unsealed from a lawsuit filed by Virginia, Gurif, sorry, and alleged trafficking

1:10:38 victim against British socialite galain Maxwell Epstein's former girlfriend.

1:10:42 Maxwell 61 is serving a 20 year prison sentence after she was convicted in December of 2021

1:10:47 of helping Epstein recruit and sexually abused underage girls.

1:10:51 Many of those whose names appeared in documents released Wednesday aren't accused of wrongdoing

1:10:55 or have been mentioned previously in legal proceedings or new accounts.

1:10:58 The documents released Wednesday again, this is last Wednesday, are not an Epstein client

1:11:03 list.

1:11:04 So here's the reality.

1:11:06 We are never, never going to get his client list.

1:11:11 Y'all need to get real.

1:11:13 Some of you are like obsessed with the client list.

1:11:14 We're never going to get it.

1:11:15 We're never going to get it.

1:11:17 It seems like he was potentially an intelligence asset.

1:11:22 They killed him to keep his mouth shut.

1:11:23 I can't believe how galain Maxwell is still alive, but she's not going to serve out her

1:11:27 sentence and then just live, we live out her life quietly somewhere.

1:11:30 She will likely be killed at some point before she opens her mouth.

1:11:34 We're never going to know.

1:11:35 I mean, people have talked about Bill Clinton being on this list and Prince Andrew, Andrew

1:11:39 Andrews, whichever, you know, David Copperfield was mentioned, Leonardo Caprio was mentioned.

1:11:43 But again, some of these people were just mentioned, but not mentioned in any potential

1:11:48 wrongdoing, right, Alan Dershowitz and some others.

1:11:51 So we're just never going to know Bill Clinton is not going to go to prison for very likely

1:11:55 being a pedophilic weirdo, right?

1:11:59 Because we can't be proven for all intents and purposes, most of the blackmail content

1:12:05 that Jeffrey Epstein had was destroyed.

1:12:09 There were places that, you know, they kind of raided his place in New York and then they

1:12:13 didn't get a warrant and then it took like two or three days for the court order to get

1:12:16 the warrant, which the warrant should have been able to been, you know, administered immediately.

1:12:20 And then by the time they got back, all these files and all these hard drives and all that

1:12:24 we're taking away, it's just guys, I'm kind of over the story, which doesn't mean I don't

1:12:29 care about the victims of this because obviously I care about that very, very much, but we're

1:12:33 just not going to be able to find these people.

1:12:35 Okay.

1:12:36 So my big takeaway on this one though, is it's easy to focus on someone else's depravity

1:12:41 when it's this dark, but we have to remember our own depravity as well.

1:12:46 So I'm not saying that the people that actually went to Epstein's F Island and, you know,

1:12:51 raped these children and all these different things.

1:12:54 I'm not saying that wasn't depraved, clearly it was depraved.

1:12:58 But when we see depravity like that, or when we see like depravity, like a serial killer

1:13:03 or someone that, you know, just ran over somebody on the street for fun or something

1:13:06 like that, it's easy to look at that and be like, Oh gosh, now that's evil and it kind

1:13:11 of gets you a little puffed up because you're like, well, I'm not like that.

1:13:14 I'm not bad.

1:13:15 Like that guy.

1:13:16 I mean, that guy, you know, killed people and like cut their skin off and wore it on

1:13:19 his face.

1:13:20 Which it is, but he's just as much of a center as you are because again, sin is binary.

1:13:27 In terms of the cross in terms of the atonement that we get from the cross, it's binary.

1:13:34 You either have put your faith in Christ for the propitiation of your sin debt or you haven't.

1:13:40 I'm not going to get into a discussion about like whether or not you're elected to be in

1:13:43 that group or not, but you either are or you aren't.

1:13:47 You've either either made that decision to follow Christ where you're deciding not to.

1:13:52 You're worshiping at the altar of Jesus or you're worshiping at the altar of self, which

1:13:58 is basically includes everything.

1:14:00 So as you read these stories, as you go through these headlines and all that, just remember

1:14:06 those people need a savior just like you do.

1:14:08 I'm reminded of whenever I was in Lewisburg prison about a year ago and I'm sitting there

1:14:12 in the room again.

1:14:13 I've talked about a lot with multiple murderers, people that had multiple bodies.

1:14:17 One guy I took hands with, I came to find out, had killed four people that we know of,

1:14:22 right?

1:14:23 Murderers, rapists, burglars, armed robbers, pedophiles.

1:14:27 I was interacting with all of them, shaking their hands, talking to them.

1:14:30 And the thing I said from the very beginning, I got up there because you know the drill,

1:14:33 it's like these people, they didn't have to be there.

1:14:36 They got to choose to be there.

1:14:37 There was a bunch of guys there and I said, you know, the main difference between you guys

1:14:41 and me, I get to leave when I'm done with my speech.

1:14:45 Now, you guys have crossed the lines of man.

1:14:50 That's why you're here.

1:14:51 That's why you don't get to leave with me.

1:14:53 But we've all crossed the lines of God.

1:14:55 So in that way, we are brothers and I did that to set the tone for what I was going

1:14:59 to talk about because I wasn't hovering above them while I was talking.

1:15:03 I wasn't special.

1:15:04 I'm a sinner, just like them.

1:15:06 I have a different address than they do.

1:15:09 They get a lot less privileges than I do, but we're sinners is the same.

1:15:13 There's a need of a savior, and luckily we got one.

1:15:15 All right, guys, before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.

1:15:18 Add on Dawn to life.

1:15:19 Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual

1:15:22 mental and physical resilience.

1:15:24 So I've got some links today.

1:15:25 I've got a link to our donation page.

1:15:26 A lot of the references I made in this episode I put here in the end.

1:15:31 So I've got the debate I talked about between Todd Wilson and Marsha Montenegro.

1:15:36 I've got that clip of Claudio Naranjo basically saying he did the Enne Graham because of automatic

1:15:40 writing.

1:15:41 And I have a couple of interviews, one with Doreen virtue and one with Marsha Montenegro

1:15:45 that you guys can check out.

1:15:46 One of them is on Lisa Childers's podcast.

1:15:48 I've got all the links to everything I talked to in the quick hitters today.

1:15:51 And there's probably some other stuff in there that I just don't really feel like saying

1:15:54 at this point.

1:15:55 But that's all right there in the show notes.

1:15:56 You can check it out for yourself.

1:15:57 Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.

1:15:59 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five

1:16:02 star review.

1:16:03 If you want to come speak alive at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email

1:16:07 to info@undontin.life, that's i-n-f-o@undontin.life, follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook

1:16:13 and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content

1:16:17 like this coming your way.

1:16:18 Just go to www.undontin.life and also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us

1:16:23 to use their music for our content.

1:16:25 The musical in this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album

1:16:30 on Face Down Records.

1:16:31 The links are in the description.

1:16:33 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

1:16:34 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

1:16:41 Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.