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0:37
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:51
Let's get into it. Hi guys, today we've got a return guess on the podcast. His name is Sean
0:55
Carney. Sean is the CEO and president of 40 Days for Life, and he co-founded this organization back
1:00
in 2004. 40 Days for Life is an international anti-abortion organization that campaigns against
1:05
baby murder in more than 60 countries. I wrote this down. This actually came up during the interview.
1:08
They've convinced 240 abortion employees, abortion facility employees to leave their jobs. Today,
1:14
they have saved over 21,000 babies lives, and they have gotten 116 abortion facilities around the
1:22
globe to close. They are right in the thick of it. I absolutely love this organization. Sean has
1:27
also written four best-selling books on the subject, and his last one is the one that we had him on
1:31
the podcast to talk about previously, episode 262. It's called What to Say When, the Complete New
1:36
Guide to Discussing Abortion, How to Change Minds and Convert Hearts in a Brave New World. In this
1:41
interview, we didn't get to spend a whole lot of time talking about pro-abortion arguments and
1:45
how to defeat those things. That book is in the show notes. You need to get that book. You need
1:49
to read it if you have not done that before. Again, I mentioned he was here on episode 262
1:53
with his partner, Steve Carlin. He is also depicted in the pro-life movie Unplanned. I talked about
1:58
that on episode 70 of this podcast. In this podcast, we talk about how he got into the whole subject
2:04
of life and when that started for him, his reaction to the Dobbs' decision, his reaction to the leak,
2:10
which came out about a month before that, what pro-lifers should be focusing on now. We went down
2:15
a few different rabbit trails about the full criminalization of abortion and how people are
2:19
using the word unthinkable to describe abortion right now, how Democrats are going to try to react.
2:24
He's a guy that would describe himself as a pessimist, which I would describe myself as a
2:29
pessimist as well, but he was very optimistic on what we are going to see in terms of abortion
2:34
in this country as we move forward, in terms of the laws, in terms of the actual things happening,
2:39
and women actually choosing not to kill their children, but to keep their children.
2:43
It was a really, really fun conversation. As I tell you all the time, if I don't get to most
2:47
of my questions in the interview, the interview typically works out better and we did not get to
2:50
even half of the stuff that I wanted to ask him, but it was a great 60 minutes. I hope you guys
2:54
enjoy it. So without further ado, let's get into it. Sean Carney, welcome back to Undaunted Life
3:00
of Man's podcast. It's good to be back. Thank you. Appreciate it. The first time we had you on,
3:05
we had your buddy Steve with you. Okay. So I don't know if you're comfortable with, you know,
3:08
just hanging out with me alone. Last time you guys had me outnumbered. Is this going to be okay?
3:12
We're good. Steve is out in the woods with no access to the world. So we should probably be a
3:17
little jealous of him, but I'm happy to be on. What is he doing out there? What's he doing out there?
3:22
You know, he wouldn't. He's not hunting. He lives in Wisconsin. So I don't, he just said he'll be
3:28
out in the woods. He's on vacation. And I don't know if it's like a family reunion in the middle
3:34
of nowhere, Wisconsin. I don't know if he's he's walking around with like a spear hunting something,
3:40
but he could be making it up. I suppose he just doesn't want to be bothered. And that's cool too,
3:45
but he told me he's out in the woods. Is it possible that that's where they make all their
3:50
cheese in that state? They make it in the woods? Is that like maybe he'll send me some? Is this
3:54
is this possible? Yeah, every time I go up there, he's got cheese curds for me. And I mean,
3:59
God bless Wisconsin, because when they're not eating the raw cheese curds, which apparently,
4:04
they have to be squeaky of learn this. And that makes the real cheese curd. When you're chewing
4:09
them, they squeak, but they'll fry them. And those are that's golden. And I remember years ago, I did
4:17
a talk for a Christian school. They were starting a Catholic school up there. And I went up there for
4:23
free. And I wanted to help them get started. And so as a thank you, this guy sent me his Dallas
4:29
Cowboy Green Bay Packer tickets at limbo on the 50 yard line 12 rows up. It was awesome. It was
4:36
awesome. And of course, I wear my cowboy jersey. And it was very hostile. But it was awesome.
4:42
Lambo is really, really cool. Definitely. Typical typical Cowboys fan. You still think you're
4:47
relevant, even after all these years, that's so cute. But hey, this, this is devolving right
4:52
from the beginning. But I do want to give a shout out to one of our earliest supporters of this
4:55
is a guy named Dwayne Shanky out of Colorado. He is the first person that actually gave me
5:00
cheese curds. You see, I brought that all the way back around. Very good. Yeah, I went and spoke
5:04
at their church last year. And he's like, Oh man, we went to the store. He's like, I got to get these
5:08
cheese curds because I think him and his family are from Wisconsin. And I was like, man, I'm gonna
5:11
be honest with you. I don't know what a cheese curd is, but I like cheese. Is it is it kind of like
5:15
cheese? So anyway, we've wasted the first two minutes of this and I take full blame for all of
5:20
it. But hey, we don't know that everybody knows who you are at this point. Like, we don't want to
5:25
take that for granted. So just in a generic way to start it, the guys didn't listen to your first
5:29
appearance on the show. Number one, what's wrong with you? And number two, we need to do a little bit
5:32
of introductory work. So how about you give us an idea how you personally got into the fight for life?
5:37
Really like eighth grade in high school, I heard former two former abortion workers,
5:43
one a former abortion doctor speak, and that just convicted me. I was from a pro life area in East
5:49
Texas. I'm from Tyler. And and so we got involved in college. I wanted to be a lawyer. And then that
5:56
never happened because we launched 40 days for life, which is a now in 65 countries in 1000 cities,
6:02
where we hold peaceful vigils outside of abortion facilities for 40 days. And we do it twice a year.
6:08
And we have some locations now that do 365 and are out there every day. So 40 days for life is
6:14
exploded. It was very much my wife who first took me out to pray in an abortion facility when I was
6:21
18. So I've just been always very convicted. And I think we do need more men stepping up on this
6:28
issue for sure. Well, we'll definitely dig more into that and we'll get into Dobbs and we'll get
6:32
into row and in case you and all those different things. But specifically to to tee you up a little
6:36
bit more for 40 days for life, talk a little bit more about specifically what you do because
6:41
when you say peaceful visuals and things like that, I think just the fact that you mentioned that
6:45
you're outside of these, you know, murder factories, some people call them abortion facilities.
6:49
They assume that it's going to be the negative stuff that they've seen on the news or on the left
6:54
wing websites where it's, you know, people holding up pictures of aborted fetuses, which I personally
6:58
am okay with. But that's not exactly y'all's style or not your style at all to be frank. So
7:03
tell us a little bit more about what what y'all do outside of those facilities specifically.
7:08
Yeah, well, we're trying to get women to number one, not having abortion. So our first priority is
7:13
obviously the baby who's in his life is hanging in the balance. And then the woman and then the
7:18
workers. And we've got a great response from all three. And we do use graphic images in certain
7:25
context, but not out in front of the abortion facilities. And, you know, we've now had 239,
7:32
240 actually, as of yesterday, 240 abortion workers have a change of heart and leave their jobs just
7:39
not get mad that there's a bunch of religious crazy people outside their doors, which is how
7:43
they view us. But they actually had a change of heart and they converted. So we've had 240 of those
7:49
we've had over 21,000 babies saved that we know of. And then we've helped close 116 abortion facilities,
7:59
one of which is now our headquarters, the closed Planned Parenthood and college station, Texas,
8:03
where 40 days for life first began. I mean, looking at the back of a baseball card can
8:10
sometimes give you the wrong idea about a player or organization. But I mean, those numbers,
8:16
240 workers, 21,000 plus babies, and 116 facilities closed. I mean, it's convicting to a guy like me
8:23
that spends so much of my time on this podcast talking about that. But I mean, aside from, you
8:28
know, throwing y'all a bone here and talking about y'all here and there. I mean, that's some serious
8:33
numbers. But let's go back to something you mentioned from the beginning, Sean, which is,
8:36
you will need to get more men into this. Okay, so a lot of people that don't spend a whole lot of
8:41
time talking about this subject or thinking about this subject even, they assume that this is just
8:45
a women's issue. So on the left, it's, you know, it's a woman's right to choose, no feed or no
8:49
uterus, no opinion type of thing. And then on the other side on the right, it's like, well, you know,
8:53
the women will take care of that the women will kind of push this the women have always pushed
8:57
this entire idea, which kind of plays into the leftist narrative of no uterus, no opinion.
9:01
So talk to me a little bit more about how you need more men to get into this fight.
9:05
Yeah, well, it's a man's world and any, any abortion facility that's operating
9:12
shows that it's indeed a man's world. We wish it was just a women's issue, but it's not.
9:17
We didn't ask for abortion. We didn't vote on abortion. Women didn't vote on abortion.
9:21
It was given to us by an all male Supreme Court based on dated science, even in 1973, much less 2022.
9:30
Most abortion facilities are owned by men. Most abortion doctors are men and no one benefits more.
9:37
I mean, women don't grow up and want an abortion. No one benefits more from abortion than bad men,
9:45
either the men making money off of it, off of vulnerable women, the owners of the facilities,
9:51
the doctors themselves, or the promiscuous men, the men who don't want to take responsibility.
9:57
Some do, many do, and we work with them. But the majority of them hide behind the lane.
10:03
Whatever you decide, I'll support you. And most of the time, there's not a man to be found
10:10
on the other side of the parking lot of an abortion facility. When they're in the parking lot,
10:15
it's the woman. She's alone. She's almost, if she didn't drive herself with another woman.
10:21
It's a men's issue in the worst way. So I mean, we can go and just go to the sidelines and say,
10:27
"Hey, you do what you want to do." That has been the tradition in the United States that men remove
10:33
themselves from all responsibility, that they remove themselves from any kind of leadership role
10:44
in the relationship, and they pay for the abortion and consider themselves a good guy.
10:49
So no one benefits from abortion more than bad men.
10:53
One, it kind of goes back to the passivity of Adam, the passivity with original sin and those
10:57
types of things. And we see that. And I don't think I'm going out a limb here, Sean, by saying,
11:03
this fully grown boy concept that we see now, like it's boys that can shave,
11:10
it's getting worse because we have boys pushing off maturity and pushing off manhood even farther
11:15
into the future. And or we have these these fully grown up boys that can shave that are self-initiating
11:22
into manhood. And so that we don't have these rights of passage as a culture that explain,
11:26
"Hey, you're a man now. Here's what's expected of you." And I've heard of some great
11:30
people that are kind of men that work inside some of these pro-life facilities that basically take
11:35
these men, that maybe it's a pregnancy resource center or something like that, and they will take
11:39
these men aside and basically call them into a higher purpose in a higher life and say,
11:44
"Hey, you got her pregnant, whether it's your girlfriend or just some random chick or something
11:49
like that, and this is your time to step up, and this is what's expected of you, and this is how
11:53
we make that happen." But we live in a culture where if you say that, "Oh my gosh, it sounds so
11:57
judgy and so finger pointy." And oh my gosh, like, you know, it's ruining this guy's life, like,
12:02
let him just kind of have a mea copa, let him just kind of take this, take this and just get this,
12:07
let this abortion happen and it'll be in his past and then it'll just kind of go away.
12:11
So flow a little bit more on that if you don't mind. Yeah, and I wish it went away for the men,
12:15
but it doesn't. And they certainly, on the day of the abortion, think that it's going to go away,
12:19
but it doesn't. Abortion doesn't work like that. You remember the day that you drove your girlfriend
12:25
to have the abortion. They remember what they said and didn't say. I speak with more men to their
12:33
credit now who are 20 years past getting their girlfriend or even wife an abortion, and they realize,
12:41
you know, I didn't want it deep down, but I didn't say anything. You know, I was a total
12:45
coward. I didn't say, "No, we're not doing this." And I've seen men do that in the parking lot.
12:52
It's pretty awesome. When you get a boyfriend out smoking a cigarette or whatever,
12:56
while the girlfriend's waiting on her abortion and you say, "Hey, come over here," and I've seen
13:02
men run in and drag their wives, drag their girlfriends out and say, "We're doing this. This
13:08
was a mistake." And that's kind of the last sort of heroic thing they could do at that moment.
13:13
But many of them regret it. Many of them wonder if their girlfriend had an abortion and they don't
13:20
know about it. That's kind of a phenomenon with older gentlemen who thought, you know,
13:26
I got around in my 20s. And I didn't think about abortion. I didn't think about pregnancy. I was
13:31
running around. And I never actually heard back from so and so. And they'd start to do the math.
13:38
If I was with this many women, one of them had to get pregnant. But I never knew about it. So,
13:44
that's just an anxiety issue. The older you get, and there's something young men need to know,
13:49
like you maybe post a board of them, not even know it. And so, we worked with all sorts of men
13:56
on this issue. But it is needed that men stand up. The worst thing is to buy the lie of like,
14:06
no uterus, no opinion, which is just so stupid. Men and women need each other's opinion. The
14:14
first thing your wife says when you're going out, how does this look? You don't sit there and go,
14:18
"I don't have a uterus. I can't tell you that your hair looks garbage. You look beautiful.
14:22
I have no opinion." We just isolate this stupid phrase for abortion only. I mean,
14:30
what if your wife was going to have or your girlfriend said, "Hey, the doctor said I can
14:35
have new surgery now or I can put it off 10 years." Well, no uterus, no opinion. Where do you want to
14:40
eat tonight? No uterus, no opinion. It is just this made up phrase. And we don't... Also, it's very
14:47
transphobic, by the way. But we've gotten ourselves in this world where we're divorcing the couple.
14:57
We're saying you can't speak on anything because you don't have the same biology as me.
15:05
What if they don't have the same blood type? I mean, can the man have an opinion then? Can the
15:08
woman have an opinion about the man? What if the man wants to go and have an affair? And he says,
15:16
"Hey, you have a uterus? You don't got what I got, so no opinion." It's all BS. And I think that's why
15:23
you're seeing that response in a post-row world that they simply don't know what to say and they
15:29
haven't known what to say for 50 years. Well, it's because it fits really nicely on a t-shirt.
15:33
No uterus, no opinion. My body, my choice. It's kind of a pithy statement. But I think what it all
15:38
kind of boils down to and then we'll get into Dobbs is it's a boldness issue for men. And it's a
15:43
boldness issue for men calling out other men and calling them into a level of maturity.
15:48
There was a random guy. This was years ago. I talked about abortion on my podcast and I talked
15:52
about it in a very direct and fervent way that I normally do. He somehow finds my phone number,
15:57
calls me. And he's like, "Yeah, you need to be really careful how you talk about these things."
16:00
And I understand your passion and blah, blah, blah. And then he said, "Hey, man, a guy like me,
16:06
my girlfriend had an abortion. And whenever you talk the way you do, it basically makes me feel bad."
16:11
And the way I responded to him, I was like, "Why did you let your girlfriend murder your child?"
16:15
And I know that's kind of forceful and very forward to say. But that's how men talk.
16:20
Men don't go, "Oh, let me fly to wherever you are so I can hold your hand and talk you through."
16:27
It's like, "No, why did you let that happen?" And another thing I really thought of is kind of,
16:31
you kind of mentioned this about guys that kind of had this player lifestyle where they had a lot
16:36
of sexual partners. And I mentioned another thing. Like, you want to talk about people getting mad
16:40
at me on my show? I say so many crazy things. I did an episode after Tiger Woods came back in one,
16:46
a master, one of the masters. I forget what he went. He won one of the major tournaments
16:51
after he had won in a long time and all that. And everyone's using the word redemption to describe
16:55
what happened, which is a theological term, redemption and those types of things. And I was like,
17:00
"Do we really want to celebrate this guy?" I remember that. I'm glad you brought that up.
17:06
Nike did the commercial. And it had Tiger swinging and it says, "winning solves everything."
17:11
And I'm not sure you could say that to Tiger Woods's children or his ex-wife. But, yeah,
17:16
there's this just total... And that is the sexism, right? But they claim they wouldn't get rid of.
17:22
Like, Tiger just gets away with it. Well, and Sean, here's the thing is, and I said this on
17:27
the show when people were so furious with me, but it's the same thing. It's like Tiger Woods is
17:31
wrong with you. How many hundreds of women had Tiger Woods slept with? And I'm assuming that he
17:37
didn't always wear a condom, that they didn't always have safe sex whenever he was doing these
17:41
rendezvous with these women. The odds of him getting one of those women pregnant is significantly
17:46
high and the odds of them then getting rid of the problem. So he didn't have a love child he had to
17:50
pay for for the next 18 years or whatever. Like, it's significantly high. And yet, we put these
17:58
people, these players, these womanizers, we put them on this pedestal, which perpetuates the cycle
18:04
of making abortion seem like it's a viable option. Like, it's completely okay, even in the post-
18:10
row world that we live in now. So let's go ahead and get into that before we go off on too many
18:14
other tangents. So, Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization decision came down
18:20
on June 24th, 2022, one of the greatest days in the history of this country. So Dobbs was upheld
18:25
by a six-three decision. And most importantly, Roe v. Wade in Planned Parenthood versus Casey was
18:30
overruled in a five-four decision. Justice Roberts, you suck you smarmy, stupid dweeb. But I guess
18:35
two questions I have for you, Sean. The first is, what was your reaction to the political leak
18:41
of Alito's draft decision that came out, you know, about a month before the official decision?
18:46
And then obviously, what was your reaction when we got the official announcement in June
18:51
on the 24th as to Roe and Casey being overturned? Well, first off, we expected Roe to be overturned.
18:57
And we started preparing for a post-row world in 2018 with the nomination of Kavanaugh. It was
19:03
kind of well understood that Trump was saving Amy Coney Barrett as a shoe in, in case he got
19:11
a third nomination. And of course, that happened. So Kavanaugh was kind of put through the grinders,
19:16
we all remember. And then Amy Coney Barrett, you know, here we are September of 2020. And she gets
19:23
in. So we started preparing for a post-row world. Dobbs was written to overturn Roe. That was the
19:28
point of it. And they did it. They did what they ought to do. It wasn't a surprise. When I saw the
19:36
leak, I guess I was upset about the fact that what kind of country says like we can leak a document
19:45
in the Supreme Court. So as an institution, that's a problem. But I was happy. I mean, I pulled it
19:52
up on my phone and the first sentence was just gold. I mean, Alito, the Supreme Court did not
19:58
overturn Roe. They beat it up with a baseball bat. And it deserved it. It deserved it. And that's
20:05
why, you know, Ginsburg said, who was very pro-abortion, it's bad law. It was wrongly decided but had a
20:14
good outcome. That's her quote, because she wants abortion. And, and, and we're a Sandra Day O'Connor
20:19
said the same thing. And she was pro-choice. And she said, I will no longer tinker with the mechanisms
20:24
of death. Roe is on a collision course with itself because of science. So, you know, it was bad law
20:31
then they canceled Ginsburg after it was overturned. So I was happy with the leak to see it. I obviously
20:37
wanted it to, to, to stick. And it was kind of like a leak guaranteed that it would stick all these
20:44
stupid protests outside of the Supreme Court justices' houses. That was all a guarantee that
20:49
they were going to continue and overturn it. And then they did on, on as you accurately put a very
20:53
historic day on the 24th of June. And it was awesome. I mean, it was what we, we worked with a lot of
21:01
great lawyers. I know the guys that argued the Dobbs case. This was very well positioned to overturn
21:08
Roe. And so it wasn't a surprise that it, that it happened. But there needs to be a little bit of
21:14
reflection obviously in that it is a historical day. When you think about what in God's holy name
21:20
have we actually done for the second time in our history, we have dehumanized a segment of our
21:26
population. And the Supreme Court did it. We didn't vote for Dred Scott, dehumanizing blacks,
21:32
and we didn't vote for Roe v. Wade dehumanizing the unborn. And, and the Supreme Court's largest
21:39
victories are often merely correcting their greatest error. So it, it should have been overturned and
21:47
it was overturned. And so, you know, now we're in this, this post Roe world, but it is so, we are so
21:55
well positioned the pro life movement in the grassroots where this battle is finally going,
22:00
because we have things like 40 days for life, because we have sidewalk outreach, and because we have,
22:04
you know, five times as many pregnancy resource centers as abortion facilities who can offer
22:11
free medical help to women. So we're in great shape and it's, it's going to the grassroots,
22:16
which is where we've been winning. Well, we'll get more into specifics as to kind of what we can do
22:20
now. I do want to get your read because because you just mentioned the, you know, pregnancy resource
22:24
centers versus abortion clinics will just this week, I'm, this will be coming out here in a couple
22:28
of weeks. But Elizabeth Warren, Senator from Massachusetts basically came out and she said,
22:33
there are three times as many pregnancy resource centers as there are abortion facilities in this
22:38
state. And she was talking about it as if that should have been a gasp line, like,
22:42
really? No, there they help women. Oh my gosh, like what's happening? Like, how could they
22:47
possibly do that? So I'm very, very curious about what Democrats are going to try to do now,
22:53
because I know there's some angling going on. I know there's some planning going on. Again,
22:59
they have a three quarters dead person running the White House. They're the Democrats are in
23:04
trouble in the midterms. They're in trouble in 2024, unless Trump runs again, which, you know,
23:08
we could debate that all day long. Like I'm, I'm wondering what they're going to try and do because
23:13
this is the golden goose. This is, this is their sacrament, their, their perfect sacrament because
23:19
this is a, when you look at the DNC's platform on this issue is it is about as
23:25
satanic as you can possibly get. It's abortion through all nine months of pregnancy until the
23:30
date of birth and taxpayer funded. And if your state won't do it, we'll fly into our state so you
23:34
can have vacation and kill your kid and then go back home. And all these companies ran by people
23:39
that think like us would much rather pay a few thousand bucks to have you go out of state and
23:42
kill your baby and come back as opposed to giving you maternity leave and encouraging you to keep
23:47
your baby. But what can and what will Democrats do in your opinion to get this back? Because
23:54
they're not just going to be like, aw, shucks. I guess we can't kill children anymore. What are
23:58
they going to do? There's a lot of posturing going on right now. They're going to try to
24:02
politicize it and raise money for the November midterms. That will fail. Abortion is a loser
24:09
political issue. You can ask Governor Yumkin to help him get in his opponent who was a nut
24:16
ran on abortion. And it's just a, it always has been for Democrats. You got to do it.
24:20
You got to say we want abortion and because the lobby of Planned Parenthood is so powerful.
24:25
But that's going to happen. And when that fails, allow me to sprinkle you with a little optimism.
24:33
The Democrats, most of them, we hear Elizabeth Warren. She's a ding dong. We hear all these people.
24:39
Think of the Democrats you don't hear from right now. I think we will see. Remember,
24:44
Roe v. Wade created a culture. It's legal. Whatever. Do it. And at war, Republicans out,
24:53
at war, Democrats out, Bill Clinton was a pro-life Democratic governor in the 80s. Okay. Years after
25:00
Roe, he had to become pro-choice to run for president. And he's the one that created safe,
25:04
legal, and rare, which is now gone, obviously. I think Democrats are tired of abortion.
25:09
I think that they're ashamed of Planned Parenthood, but they have to take their money
25:13
because it's just scandal after scandal. It's a loser politically. And I think you will have,
25:18
and a lot of these districts, you know, it's not DC, but a lot of these states where you have a
25:24
pro-abortion Democrat senator. I think you'll see them lighten their abortion position. I really do.
25:31
And you'll certainly see that from the House of Representatives because some of these people
25:35
are sick of that platform. They can now rely on, I mean, if you're a Democrat from Nebraska,
25:42
you can sit there and say it's the law, the land, Roe v. Wade, and you move on when you're
25:47
campaigning. Now it's different. Do you think Nebraska should have abortion because Nebraska
25:53
has that choice? You can take any state, a Kansas, Kentucky. That's going to be an issue. And they
26:00
don't want to talk about it. They're not good at talking about it. It's a negative. I mean,
26:05
the pro-life message is so positive. That's one thing I saw a lot of pro-choice people say.
26:10
Like, we just lost this debate. We knew we were losing it. They were younger. They had science
26:15
on their side. And they became the compassionate side. And we became the angry side. You know,
26:19
I saw a lot of pro-abortion feminists saying that the day that it came out, because you get that
26:25
slice of honesty in the initial reaction. And that goes into the political realm. So I actually
26:31
think we're going to see Democrats, not the whole party. We're going to see a lot of them in these
26:35
pro-life states just say, you know, maybe I was, they may not say admit they were on the wrong side
26:41
of history, but, you know, the states have a right to regulate abortion. And I support that.
26:47
And just move on from there because nobody's going to be talking about Roe because of Alito's
26:53
sword, you know. And so he just, you can't defend Roe. And he laid it out in 78 great pages. So
27:00
I actually think I'm optimistic that you're going to start seeing pro-life or at least states
27:09
governing themselves popular. And the example I'll use is COVID. Everybody wanted a mask.
27:17
Everybody wanted lockdowns. Everybody wanted that. And then one state says, nah. And then another
27:21
state and another state and another state. And now if you love COVID and you want 25 vaccines
27:26
and you want a mask, you can go to California. And if you don't, you can go to Texas or Florida
27:31
or Oklahoma. And people are just fine with that. And you saw a lot of the governor of Colorado
27:37
on COVID. There's a huge lockdown. And he said, we've been wrong. We go outside, you know, and you
27:44
got to wear a coat. If you go outside in Colorado, because it's cold, but we don't make you wear a
27:47
coat, you take that risk. And so we're done with the mask. I think you're going to see a similar
27:52
thing on abortion. I really do. So that is a very optimistic take. And as I sit here and hear you
27:59
describe it, I don't know that I share that optimism. Now I do have a default mechanism in my Irish
28:04
brain, which is pessimism. I'm very pessimistic about all things. I thought we were.
28:09
The greatest Irish phrase is cheer up. Everything's about to get much worse.
28:16
Hey, I completely see that. And if I look back at my life, I can see that applied to so many
28:21
situations. But I can say like, I thought the the rioting and all the craziness was going to be
28:26
worse than George Floyd summer. But we have that right. And so I was wrong on that.
28:32
Just different. I'm telling you, they don't want to go near abortion. It's not. And I
28:38
predicted that. But do you really think so? Because look, Colorado, you know, said, Hey, abortion up.
28:44
That's the thing I'm actually concerned about is when we get the abortion numbers for 2023,
28:48
that abortion numbers total in the United States may actually go up because of the things like so
28:53
all these states had trigger laws, states like over all that. But then you have all these other
28:57
states like Illinois and New Jersey and in Rhode Island and California, New York, they're ramping
29:03
up and they want their women. Hey, come and hang out on the beach. We'll schedule your appointment
29:07
for the afternoon and then we'll put you back on the beach with a with a martini afterwards.
29:11
Like that's the thing that I'm concerned about is these women in the surrounding states like
29:15
they can't get one in Arizona. They're just going to go across the border and kill their baby. Like
29:19
having, you know, people talk about putting abortion facilities on federal lands in states that won't
29:23
allow for abortion. I am concerned that we're not going to see this content, this huge drop off. So
29:29
help me understand more because you're in this more than I am. Yeah, what's okay. So what you're
29:33
what you're forgetting and if I were in your position to be like, yeah, that makes total sense
29:37
and part of me believes you, but it's just not true. The way things play out with abortion
29:42
because it really is heart and mind. Women don't want to have an abortion. That's just the reality.
29:49
Really? They don't get out and stop their abortion. That's a Bezos as an idiot. I mean,
29:54
like he's some heroic, I'll pay for your abortion. He's like the lame boyfriend. And she's like,
29:59
I haven't even decided, you know, and I'll pay for your abortion so you can get back to work.
30:03
The average woman tells one person before she has an abortion. It's not her parents. Sometimes
30:09
not her boyfriend. It's often another female friend who has to take her. You think she's going
30:16
to walk into our HR director's office or her boss? They're not proud of it. Some are going to do it,
30:24
but it's all virtue signaling these stupid CEOs, all the corporate women don't. They're not going
30:30
to take their check for the reimbursement and storm out and everybody stand up and applaud and say,
30:36
you go girl, it is not going to be that. There's one judgmental side of this issue and it's the
30:41
abortion side. And 53% of abortions are repeats. So you think she's going to go back? Because that
30:47
HR director and we've talked to a lot of Planned Parenthood former workers and they all say,
30:52
you know, they'd come in again and we'd be like, didn't you learn your lesson? You know,
30:56
and we're out there still trying to help them, but they're, you know, I know Abby asked one woman,
31:01
what's wrong with you? You know, Abby Johnson. And that, that's going to play out in the,
31:06
you're going to tell your, your boss, this is a dark secret. They're not, they're so disconnected
31:13
from women that they don't understand how this will play out in the grassroots. Now, another thing,
31:18
distance is a deterrent. And we're not going to see that immediately. Like you see the Oklahoma
31:23
abortion numbers go up when Texas had their ban, you know, before a row and all that. You'll see
31:28
that spike. But somebody in Houston, are they going to, are they going to drive to Colorado?
31:35
I mean, we're degrading women by saying that they're just clamoring and dying to have an abortion.
31:42
We've seen in Texas, distance from an abortion facility is a deterrent. Why? Because they think
31:47
about it. And they Google it. And they learn about free help. They learn about adoption.
31:53
I think all this rhetoric creates this sort of evil nature in women. And it's the opposite.
32:00
They're built to love their children and protect them. And any kind of distraction away from abortion,
32:06
whether it be distance, whether it be having to tell your boss, so you can get reimbursed,
32:10
which most of them would just go and have the abortion. They'll find the money. That's the one
32:14
thing we work with. Poor women, homeless women, they find the money for the abortion. That's not
32:18
the issue, even though corporate America thinks it is. They're just it. You are going to see the
32:25
numbers go down. Texas did 50,000 abortions a year. And it's now abortion free, Missouri.
32:31
And what they're going to do, and we're prepared for it, they will build abortion facilities on
32:35
these border states. And you'll have crazy places like, you know, Colorado and California. And of
32:41
course, those congressmen and senators will be like, I love abortion more than anybody.
32:46
But I'm telling you, in these swing states and certainly in red states, there's a lot of
32:52
Democrats in Congress from red states. I think you're going to see them softly change their
32:59
position on abortion as they softly over time change their position to support abortion.
33:05
Okay, I'll say that you're swaying me a little bit on it. Like, if I have to fake it till I make
33:10
it this whole optimism thing, I still don't even quite understand what it means optimism.
33:14
But like, I will fake it till I make because I so hope that you're right. I so hope that you are
33:20
right that this isn't going to be positive on stuff like this. But I'm just over the years with
33:27
all the conversations and all the interactions. We've closed abortion facilities in Los Angeles,
33:33
San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle. No one wants to be there. The worker, it's hard running an
33:38
abortion facility. It's going to be even harder now. And I'm telling you, this is market driven.
33:44
And there are a lot of things that, you know, not to mention with the corporate issue,
33:51
the lawsuits. So you're going to pay for Sally to go to Colorado for her abortion.
33:56
But Jennifer, her daughter who's eight needs to go to Houston for leukemia treatment. Are you
34:04
paying for her flight? No, are you going to pay for John needs to get
34:08
a knee replacement? And the best doctor is one state over. Are you going to pay for that? No.
34:12
I literally a 90% of this is virtue signaling. And I've talked to so many lawyers and they break
34:17
down like how what a legal nightmare this is for already, you know, HR departments that are people
34:26
are dying to sue. You know, I mean, employment wall is the sketchiest thing when you get to
34:31
corporations, you know, they're trying not to offend everybody. And now you're paying for
34:36
someone's abortion or travel to an abortion and you're not paying for somebody, somebody's kid who
34:42
has to go to Philadelphia to get a heart transplant. Well, and Sean, I do wonder as well, like, so
34:48
Dick's Sporting Goods was probably the one that made the biggest wave because the actual, you know,
34:52
verbiage that they sent out to their employees came out. Now I stopped shopping at Dick's years
34:57
ago whenever they stopped selling gun parts and ammo and stuff like that to virtue signal.
35:01
And I wonder if it's going to be a snapback. So like the NBA went full Black Lives Matter
35:07
during, after, you know, St. George Floyd was, you know, he died in police custody. And then they
35:12
lost so much of their audience that they're like, oh, I guess our mostly white audience doesn't like
35:18
being preached to about how racist they are as they tune in to watch these African American players,
35:24
you know, play a sport and make tens of millions of dollars a year to do so. And then they went away.
35:30
And so they got rid of all the Black Lives Matter stuff. And the audience slowly started to come back.
35:34
I haven't come back because I'm just, I'm not interested in being preached to. And I know it's
35:37
coming the next time something like this happens. So I wonder if that's going to happen with some
35:42
of these organizations where it's like they came out there and said, Hey, we're going to do this.
35:46
And you know, people are like, okay, I'm just not going to buy, you know, your tube socks anymore.
35:50
But also I hope that there's companies, I think it's a buffer insurance out of Texas. They announced
35:54
they said, okay, you know, in reference to this whole thing being overturned, we are going to pay
35:59
for our employees, not only to keep their kids, but we're going to have, you know, significant
36:03
maternity and paternity leave. We're going to pay for people that they want to adopt children. We're
36:08
going to help them pay with that process. And I was like, I hope there are more companies like
36:11
that because within 24 hours buffer insurance probably doubled their profit for the quarter,
36:17
because people are like, what do you all sell? It doesn't even matter. I'm buying it. I'll
36:20
change from state farm and buy whatever you're buying. So hopefully we see more of that. So
36:25
that might dovetail into this next question. And I appreciate you letting me kind of like
36:28
weave my way through through your reasoning on that last thing. But this is kind of the big
36:32
crux of this. Okay. Row is now dead. Casey is now dead. Now what? So what does the focus of the
36:40
pro life cause need to be now? Because that Friday night, I told everybody I popped a new bottle of
36:45
whiskey, I pulled out cigar and I enjoyed myself. But by Saturday morning, it's like,
36:49
okay, batting down the hatch. It's because it's time to go to work.
36:52
Yeah. Yeah, because it goes to the grassroots, where the pro life movement is the strongest.
36:58
Planned Parenthood has a huge disconnect. And the former directors who have converted have
37:03
talked about this. There is a big difference between the corporate side of Planned Parenthood,
37:08
which traditionally they've hired very smart, very talented people, unfortunately,
37:14
their New York PR firm, their messaging, their lawyers and lobby in DC, very powerful.
37:21
Then there's a drop. So it is, it is, you know, the lady running your local abortion facility,
37:27
wherever you live, there's a huge disconnect between corporate Planned Parenthood and those
37:31
people. And they're left out to dry, you know, a lot of companies struggle with that. But the
37:35
boots on the ground are out to dry. You got 40 days for life running around. You've got your,
37:39
maybe you're in a pro life state or pro life leaning state. You can't tell people where you work.
37:46
And you have to fly in and out of town abortionists because there's an abortion doctor shortage,
37:51
another big issue they're going to have in a postural world. And you just have all this drama,
37:56
and there's this disconnect. Well, I'll tell you, for the first time in a long time,
38:00
Planned Parenthood is incompetent at the CEO position. Alexis McGill Johnson is not competent.
38:07
I'm saying that respectfully. She doesn't know what she's doing. She was ill prepared for this
38:13
moment big time. You go to their Twitter feed leading up to the overturning of Roe,
38:18
they've relied on Roe their entire history. And, you know, it's gay rights, it's trans,
38:23
it's gun violence, it's, you would have no idea Roe is on the brink of being overturned.
38:28
You have no idea the leak happened, just from their Twitter account. So I'll spare your
38:32
audience from going to their Twitter account. But I did a blog, I did a blog on it, and I just go
38:37
through live, you know, through their Twitter. It's unbelievable. So they had Cecil Richards as a CEO.
38:44
She was very effective, unfortunately, for the pro life movement. She was there 12 or 14 years,
38:50
and then it's just been a revolving door and they're on their fourth CEO in five years. And Alexis
38:55
McGill Johnson is not up for this. And you just see them putting out other people for interviews.
39:03
So at a time, which I think is divine, providence, when they're so weak at the top,
39:08
it's going to DC, it's leaving DC and going to the grassroots, where we're the strongest. So,
39:14
you know, we can, you can close an abortion facility anywhere. We've closed 104 in America,
39:20
okay, 104 abortion facilities, one of which is our headquarters.
39:24
Out of that 104, 45% were in, are in blue pro abortion states where abortion will remain legal.
39:33
This becomes a market issue. And that is to our advantage.
39:38
So with all that in mind, one thing that I'm seeing now in terms of the reaction,
39:44
because I know you wanted to spend some time really talking about the reaction. And we could
39:47
ignore some of the stupid signs and some of the slogans and bumper sick or stuff that people
39:51
are using to raise money. But I keep seeing this, this one particular word from pro-choice people
39:59
and also supposedly pro-life people, they say, we need to make abortion unthinkable. Now,
40:05
what the unthinkable word is and how they're using it is a Trojan horse for every one of their
40:11
leftist policy prescriptions. They want universal healthcare. They want paid maternity leave. They
40:16
want universal pre-K. They want stuff about, you know, global warming and they want all these
40:21
things kind of wrapped in because their argument is the reason why women are getting these abortions
40:27
are because they don't have good enough jobs or they don't have childcare. They don't have all
40:31
the different things that I just listed and there's many, many others. And unfortunately, Sean,
40:36
I feel like a lot of kind of wokie Christians and kind of like Christians that have kind of a
40:42
lefty bend more liberal in their mindset. They've bought into that thing because I think it should
40:47
be unthinkable because it's an image bearer of Christ that's innocent, the most innocent possible
40:53
human being image bearer of Christ. So we shouldn't murder them, but they're like, we need to make
40:57
it unthinkable. So we need to do all these other things. There's the and campaign talking about
41:01
the whole life thing. And so they're, they're, they're okay with abortion because they know it's
41:05
really, really hard on the women. Talk a little bit about the unthinkable thing because I know you've
41:09
dealt with that pushback before, like, well, yeah, you're anti abortion, but you only care about the
41:14
baby. What about the mom and what about all these? And what about societal problems? What about
41:17
cultural problems? And what about systemic racism? And what about, you know, things that happen to
41:21
my great, great grandfather that never happened to me. And it kind of all goes back into that one word,
41:26
unthinkable, go. Yeah, unthinkable, it just needs to be not available. I mean, what makes something
41:32
unthinkable is when you don't know you have access to it, I used to ask my, my Irish granny,
41:37
how did you survive in Beaumont, Texas without air conditioning? And she said, Sean, you don't
41:41
know what you don't have. You don't have, you don't, you know, you don't care about what you don't know.
41:45
And that's okay. You know, I mean, it's like, we're going to make it unthinkable. And we do for that
41:52
reason. You know, but it's, it is something we talk about what the Nazis did was unthinkable.
41:58
The fact that we had robust slave trade and, and southern Christians had no issue in their
42:05
conscience. That's unthinkable. But we still talk about those things. We, we talk about genocide
42:11
and Holocaust around the world. And so abortion is, it's, it's, we want to make it unthinkable that
42:17
it's okay. All the other efforts, I think, to sort of build this huge, well, now we're going to
42:24
provide everything for everyone. Number one, a lot of that's available. I mean, the women choose
42:30
life because there are free alternatives or they can do it. You know, they, they, you know, not
42:35
everybody is, is, is poor, you know. And so the whole idea that somehow if you roll out the red carpet
42:45
and you give people a bunch of stuff, and I am for holding the men accountable for child support
42:53
until the kids 18, I think it's shameful that a lot of Democrats don't support that. I mean,
42:57
what are they doing? You know, and it's because of their ridiculous abortion stance. Another reason
43:02
I think that they'll, they'll switch and they'll support that. But, you know, the, the, the whole idea
43:09
of free medical care for a woman seeking an abortion is good. And that's provided by the church,
43:15
not the state. Those are individual donors to their credit that are giving money to local
43:20
pregnancy resource centers, doctors donating their time, nurses, you know, working for less
43:27
than what they would make in a hospital. And so a lot of that is, is already there. I think some
43:32
of that reaction, the knee jerk reaction is because people are basically being introduced to this
43:37
issue for the first time. They didn't know any of this stuff exists. They haven't thought about abortion.
43:42
They don't know what to say. And they're like, well, now we need to provide, you know, A, B, and C,
43:46
and it's there. That's kind of how we got to this, to this moment. But somebody who wants to create a
43:52
bill on the environment or whatever, all that's going to go away. I think the biggest response,
43:57
which does tie into the environment, is that we're starting to see everyone's inner eugenicists
44:02
come out. Because the first thing, and I said, this would happen right when you, you know, they
44:08
overturn wrote, this will hurt poor women, minority women, black women, and people who are pregnant
44:18
with a child with disabilities. And it's like they're, they're kind of like, hey, we're going to have
44:25
a bunch of minorities running around and poor people running around and disabled kids running
44:30
around. We can't have, you know, or you're nuts, you can't overturn wrote. And they have no idea
44:34
how they sound. You're like sitting there going. So we, we want to abort the black babies. And I've
44:42
been in interviews. And one of them was the Alabama abortion ban. And they interviewed one of the
44:49
few clinic directors in Alabama, this abortion facility. And I mean, literally, she should have
44:55
just had like the Marlboro hanging out of her mouth. I mean, she's like, yeah, black women,
44:59
I'm going to have anywhere to go to get their abortion. You know, and you're just like, I don't
45:03
think you can say that. You know, and so you start to see what what abortion comes from. And it is
45:09
eugenics. You're going to be poor. You don't want your baby. You're on crack. Your dad's a rapist.
45:16
You're a minority. Whatever. You need abortion. Your baby has down syndrome. I mean, talk about the
45:24
great sound of our culture is having downs. And so you get aborted. And by the way, we decide that.
45:30
And we can because we have the power and you don't. So it's where abortion comes from. It's eugenics,
45:36
you know, and, and that's, that's what Margaret Sanger, the founder of plein beer. And it made
45:40
very clear when she said we want to weed out the Negro population. I mean, all of that is very
45:47
clear. And you start to see it. And I think we do need to call people out on that. That I'm,
45:52
I don't fear black people. I don't fear Latinos. I don't fear a poor people. I grew up poor. Like,
46:01
all of this whole notion that somehow you're, you don't deserve to live because of your color.
46:10
I don't know how the abortion industry gets away with it, but it's really starting to come out
46:14
right now. And we need to call them out on it. I think overall, Sean, it's a lack of thinking.
46:20
And this, the leak, and then the Dobbs decision has caused the public to think about
46:24
this issue for longer than 12 seconds. Because, I mean, you've seen this on the street. You see
46:29
people like, Oh, are you pro life or pro choice? I guess I'm pro life. Well, what about in the case
46:32
of rape and incest? It's like, Oh, I guess we can kill those babies. Or are you pro life or
46:36
choice? Or I guess I'm pro choice. Well, have you, do you know what an abortion looks like? Do you
46:40
know what it, you know what the process is? And then you show them a cartoon rendering
46:44
of what an abortion is, or like, what, what? That's an abort. That's what it looks like in the womb.
46:50
That's a baby. That's a baby. And you're like, yeah, that's a baby. Hearts beating, you know,
46:55
livers, creating blood cells, you know, kidneys are taking care of fluids. Like, that's all happening
46:59
right there. And that baby's being torn apart with a suction to, right? And that's why I think
47:04
it's really important. It's causing people to really, really think through this. And that's why I
47:07
like speaking on the other end of that, on the other end of that, that we put our nephew and our
47:12
kids and our family members ultrasound on the fridge. And we have 30 years. And that's starting
47:18
to play out like, I don't know, I'm a little uncomfortable with this. Like, we have little
47:22
Billy's ultrasound up there, but then we can go and have an abortion, you know, the day before
47:27
the child was born, or 12 weeks or whenever. Right. And it also forces people to start being
47:32
intellectually honest, because you say, Hey, are you pro-liver pro choice? They're like,
47:35
Oh, I'm pro choice. You're like, okay, so like, you know, the day that the woman and the husband
47:40
are driving to the hospital to give birth, they could both decide, you know what, let's hang a
47:44
Richard and let's go over here to this place and let's actually just kill the baby. They're like,
47:48
no, no, that's crazy. I'm like, well, that that's an abortion. Well, no, like it's not that's just,
47:52
that's a baby right there. It's like, okay, when during the process of gestation, is it not a
47:57
living human being? So let's just start there. And they can't answer it. Because then you start
48:01
getting into the viability argument. And then it's like, well, in some places in this country,
48:05
a 21 week old gestation fetus has a pretty good chance of survival. Other places in the country,
48:10
it doesn't. Maybe it's a 23 or 24 week, depending upon what doctors and what facilities are in the
48:14
area. And so then you're like, okay, so someone in rural Kentucky is not worth life at 21 weeks
48:20
of gestation, but somebody like, you know, outside of the, you know, the best hospital facility in
48:24
the country, they're worthy of life, because they, they were, you know, born or near that area
48:29
geographically. The whole thing just kind of falls apart, which I, you guys have talked a lot
48:34
about this. You've equipped a lot of people. Maybe if we have time here at the end, we'll get into
48:37
some, some more of those abortion arguments. But I did want to talk about something legislatively
48:41
that people kind of thrown out there, but it hasn't really gotten a lot of playing. So I don't really
48:44
know exactly why that is. So I've heard people talk about, okay, we need to push for legislation,
48:50
you know, maybe an amendment to the constitution that, you know, basically eradicates abortion
48:55
federally, right? So just like it was legal ish with Roe v. Wade, it would be completely banned,
49:00
regardless of your state's laws, regardless of any of those things. So that's one thing I've
49:04
heard, but haven't heard a lot about, and then I've also heard about adding the unborn to the 14th
49:08
amendment, right? So making that change to where they're, they're added there. And I know you need
49:12
two thirds and it's kind of a, kind of a crazy situation. But do you see those things happening?
49:17
Because that would be one way to dampen what some of these blue states are doing. And is that the
49:22
next legislative push for the pro-lifers is to actually get an amendment or an adjustment to the
49:27
14th amendment? I don't think so. I've seen a lot of the talking points about that. I don't think
49:33
it's a very serious notion, because Roe was overturned. And I think legislation will
49:40
will probably fail either way. I think there's a lot, I'll get, I'll get to that in a minute.
49:46
There's a lot of legislation that needs to happen at the state level, and that's where the battle is,
49:49
the mail in abortions, the, you know, the distance, all of those things. And we're in the pro-life
49:55
women's in great position at the state level. I overall, I may be naive, but it's dead at the
50:01
federal level. You know, Biden wants to codify Roe. So what would happen? They're going to vote.
50:06
He said this the day that we recorded this. He's going to codify Roe. He's going to have Congress,
50:11
you know, make Roe law. So here's what would happen. There would be an appeal. That appeal
50:17
would go to who? The Supreme Court. The Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court would say, oh yeah,
50:24
maybe you know, it's busy summer. We overturned Roe. So it doesn't work like that. Like they
50:31
overturned Roe. They sent abortion back to the states. The only way to get it back is to wait
50:38
for everybody to die or whatever and get your own or expand the court like they're talking about
50:43
and get new justices and send some abortion case and those new justices say abortions for
50:48
everybody all the time. But that's not going to happen. It's certainly not going to happen
50:52
anytime soon. So but for the pro-life movement, I mean, I'm not a lawyer. I'd have to talk to some
50:59
of our attorneys. But I don't want that added in the 14th Amendment because the Constitution assumes
51:05
right now that we it says, you know, that we have a right to life. It assumes life in the womb.
51:12
And so to sort of highlight them, we don't highlight anybody else. We don't say and teenagers also,
51:18
you know, we don't say and born people also in the Constitution. So I don't think that that would
51:24
do anything. I think it sort of raises our hand for for making a mistake. So I think federally,
51:30
not much is going to be done for either side because of Roe being overturned and it will go back
51:37
to the states. Biden may be able to get a budget amendment to pay for women to travel and all of
51:42
that. But but to me, that's more signaling and desperation and how many women are going to take
51:48
them up on it. Some will, but the majority of them, as I mentioned earlier, you know, they're not
51:53
leaping up in the air to go have an abortion. So I think that the freak out that you mentioned
52:01
is valid and you're exactly right. Nobody's thought about it for longer than 12 seconds.
52:07
And we can't live in a fantasy world anymore. We can't we don't let pregnant women on a roller
52:11
coaster, you know, we do surgeries on unborn children. We put Scott Peterson in prison for
52:17
for double murder. You know, second degree murder of his unborn child who the court named Connor,
52:24
okay, recognized his name, which was Connor. So we can't do all these things and then say,
52:30
oh, yeah, and we can have an abortion. And that's your whole point about we're not mutual funds.
52:35
We don't gain value. We don't gain dignity over time. We simply are.
52:39
Right. And so and that kind of goes in and I know there's a lot and I don't really spend any
52:43
time on this, but there are some people in the pro life side of things that, you know, they want
52:48
to talk about sphere sovereignty with with God and have, you know, the full criminalization and
52:52
all those things. And they never want to use a scientific argument because they feel like that
52:56
decreases the biblical argument. I don't necessarily want to go there where I do want to go is where
52:59
you're talking about the state laws, because here's something that I have not seen. So if I'm
53:03
incorrect on this, please correct me. But I have not seen any states, even the states with trigger
53:07
laws that went into effect, even states that are looking to create, you know, these bans on
53:12
abortions and all these things where they criminalize all of the people involved in the abortion.
53:18
I've only seen where they were criminalizing the doctor performing it, not the woman seeking it out,
53:23
not the woman's family, not the guy that dropped her off or picked her up, not any of those people.
53:28
And I've had this argument with people on the pro life side and I haven't really gotten a whole
53:32
lot of ground. But again, I always use the this example because it's an example from my house,
53:36
but let's just say I hate my wife, I need her to die, but I don't want to do it myself. So I find
53:40
some random shady dude, pay him a few grand and like, hey, you kill my wife. Well, if he kills her,
53:45
and then and he also had a buddy that drove him there so that he didn't have to worry about driving
53:49
when he was going to kill this random chick, right? If they get caught and then they point
53:53
at me and say, I'm the one that did it, we all go down for murder. So the guy that shot her,
53:58
the guy that drove her there and me, we all go down for murder. But somehow this is, I think,
54:03
a blind spot for the pro lifers. It's where like, we totally get that on a born person that's living
54:08
outside the womb. But then we want to create a different category of, you know, some sort of
54:14
empowerment or some sort of empathy for the woman in this case, because, Oh, well, maybe she was,
54:18
you know, encouraged to do it or any of those types of things. It's those excuses that wouldn't work
54:23
if a gang banger went to court and said, Oh, no, you know, the my brother who's also in the gang,
54:27
he encouraged me to shoot this person for like a week or two. And then I finally did it. It's like,
54:31
great. Okay, we might deal with your brother later, but you're the one that pulled the trigger,
54:34
right? Yeah. Okay. Well, you're going down for murder. So where do you guys stand on this?
54:38
Because for me, it makes no sense why we wouldn't criminalize everybody.
54:42
Number one, I don't think it's the issue you think it is.
54:46
So number two, over 80% of women said that they wouldn't have had an abortion if it were illegal.
54:54
So that's another statistic that shows they're not like clamoring to have an abortion. We are
55:00
going to see a decrease. I just don't think we're there as far as, I mean, everything you're saying,
55:05
of course, like the analogies are, are, are totally, you know, reasonable. Hey, I come,
55:11
I paid some guy to kill my wife and I don't, I don't go to prison. Number one, we're so new
55:16
into this that that's a loser legislatively. And so you, you, everybody's going to run from it,
55:22
criminalizing a woman for, for having an abortion. Nobody's going to go for that now because the,
55:29
because it's so, it's so fresh and it's a loser. It will lose in, in, in state legislation across
55:37
the country. So that's, that's kind of the, the big picture part of it. The other side of it is that
55:44
almost all of them I've, I've seen do criminalize the doctor and that's the ultimate deterrent.
55:52
We're talking about making abortion unthinkable. It can't be available. When a doctor can be
55:57
sued, like in Texas, where I live by me or you for doing an abortion, that's when he says I'm out.
56:04
And most abortionists, they don't plan on doing it. They don't go to medical school saying I'm
56:08
going to be the best abortionist ever, like a cardiovascular surgeon or an oncologist. It doesn't
56:12
work that way. They're almost always sued. They had medical malpractice. There's some issue and they
56:17
need the cash. There's a lot of money. So they do it. Once they can be prosecuted for something,
56:24
these are cowards. These are very few abortionists are loud and proud and the ones that are
56:29
great to read their interviews because they just lay it out. But most of them aren't. And, and those
56:36
type of laws are what's going to completely end abortion. I think prosecuting the women and talking
56:44
about that and are actually doing it now is simply a distraction. I just don't think we're there
56:50
in our, in our, our journey to make America abortion free. And it can be a rabbit trail.
56:57
Okay. So you say that we're not there, but so I would agree with that reality. I do think that is
57:04
led just intellectually, I think it is legislatively a loser to go for that. I guess my question is,
57:10
should we? Because for the last several years, you could have said legislatively trying to overturn
57:14
Roe was a stinker based on who was in the Supreme Court and what the breakdown was and who was
57:18
likely to win the next presidential election, so on and so forth. So I guess it's like, should we,
57:23
though, because I think there is a truth element here that even if we know it's not possible,
57:29
that's still something that we should work towards regardless of if it's going to be popular.
57:33
Does that make sense? Because I mean, I know this is like a big issue, you know,
57:36
no, and that's a good, that's a good point. I'm just going to ignore this. But I think what will
57:40
happen is what happens with all laws are particularly when you, when a major law gets overturned
57:46
and sit back to the states, we're going to have to have precedent sent. So number one,
57:51
we're going to have to see if women have illegal abortions in states where it's illegal.
57:55
I mean, let's assume that's going to happen. Then the circumstances of that,
58:03
as in any kind of, I think it's going to be very similar to drugs. I've never used drugs,
58:12
but I have friends who were covered from drugs, and I hear testimonies of drug users, and I
58:18
know prosecutors who they'll say, "Oh yeah, this guy was doing crack, and I gave him six months,"
58:23
and I'm like, "He's a druggie," and it's like, "No, no, no, you want the dealer." I think it's
58:27
going to be very similar to the levels of, is a woman going and having eight late-term abortions
58:37
in her kitchen with a doctor, or is she drugged up and she travels? We're going to have to have
58:44
the cases to determine the law. So just as we did with abortion, over all this time, we keep
58:51
prosecuting women for the death of their two-year-old who they left in the car, but they can go in and
58:58
have an abortion, or we prosecute, like this got Peterson example, where he's like, "Second degree
59:06
murder, are you crazy?" This is an unborn fetus. We're going to need the cases, and then it will
59:13
play out state by state, and I think, just predicting it, it will be very similar to drug charges in
59:19
certain areas. You're finished, man. You smoke a joint, and you're going 10 years in the penitentiary
59:25
in other places, which Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, ironically, but all of those types of things
59:33
are going to have to play out at the state level, and then we'll know what kind of law, like,
59:37
if you at all seek the abortion, or in sound mind, you're going to prison, we just don't have
59:44
the cases yet, because we don't know how women will respond. We don't know how men will respond.
59:52
I like your analogy about the wife, because I think we'll also see an increase of men forcing
59:59
their girlfriends to have an abortion or threatening them. And that goes back to the men issue. Again,
1:00:05
with any of these issues where they're talking about abortion, or gun violence, or drugs,
1:00:08
or any of those types of things, the spreading of the gospel is the first step to change these
1:00:12
things, because it changes the heart's desire to do darkness, to do bad things, to do negative
1:00:16
things. And so, again, that's kind of always the undercurrent of this, but I, and here we are,
1:00:21
like, I'm just going to be so interested to see what five years from now, 10 years from now,
1:00:24
looking back on this summer, because we're still in the milieu of all this. We're still in the drama
1:00:29
of all this. Like, you know, the justices have barely gotten into their vacations at this point,
1:00:33
so we're still just right here in the thick of it. So we'll be interesting to look back and kind
1:00:37
of see where we go. But man, I was going to hit a bunch of other things, but I know we're out of
1:00:40
time. We've covered a lot of ground here today. Really appreciate you letting me go down all these
1:00:43
rabbit trails. But as for now, that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your
1:00:46
chest? We are going to immediately see a lot of abortion facilities close. Six have already shut
1:00:51
down in Texas, just in the last week. So they're going to start selling some land. They don't have
1:00:55
the cash. So we will see an immediate impact of facilities closing and either relocating to another
1:01:03
state or just going out of business altogether. Amen. Amen. And amen. Sean Carney, thank you for
1:01:08
coming back on Daunton life and man's podcast. Thank you. I appreciate it.
1:01:11
There you go, guys. Hope you enjoyed Sean Carney's return appearance on the show. But before we let
1:01:16
you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping
1:01:19
men to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual mental and physical resilience. So
1:01:23
here are the links I got for you today. I've got a link to the book that I talked about from the
1:01:26
beginning. You have to go get this book. It's called what to say when the complete new guide to
1:01:30
discussing abortion is going to give you a lot of answers. Like I've talked about before and how
1:01:33
you can answer back these pro-abortion arguments. I've got a link to the 40 days for life website.
1:01:37
And then I've got a linked episode 262 of this podcast, which was Sean's first appearance. And then
1:01:41
episode 70 of the podcast where I talked about the pro life movie unplanned. I guys, thanks so much
1:01:45
for listening to the show. We do appreciate it. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
1:01:49
rate and leave us a positive five star view. If you want to come and speak live at your event
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or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. That's i-n-f-o@undaunted.life.
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Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:02:01
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undaunted.life.
1:02:06
And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red for allowing us to use their music for
1:02:09
our content. The music on this podcast is our song, Cutting the Ties, which is off their 10th
1:02:13
anniversary re-recording of their album, Leveler. The links are in the description. I'm your host,
1:02:18
Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental
1:02:24
and physical resilience, keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
1:02:48
[Music]