SHANE & SHANE | The GOATs of Christian Worship Music (Ep. 452)

0:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]

0:18 This is Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.

0:21 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

0:23 Let's get into it.

0:25 All right, guys, I've got a special interview for you today.

0:26 It's actually with two people, so that is Shane Bernard

0:29 and Shane Everett, but they are better known as Shane and Shane.

0:32 They are the Texas-based contemporary worship music duo,

0:35 and they've been huge in the contemporary Christian music

0:38 scene for about 20 years now-- well over 20 years now,

0:40 actually, it was early 2000s when they got started.

0:43 And you guys have heard me talk about these guys

0:45 on this podcast quite a bit, because as I've told you before

0:48 and as I talked about in detail in episode 176 of this podcast,

0:51 I am not big on Christian worship music.

0:53 Contemporary Christian music as a genre just

0:55 doesn't hit my ear holes in a way that is pleasant to me.

0:58 Like I don't enjoy it, but there are pockets of that.

1:01 And I've talked about the altar music out of Tennessee,

1:03 but I mainly talk about Shane and Shane.

1:06 And I talk about why their music is that way for me,

1:10 because yes, they sing some of the songs that are maybe more

1:12 so on the effeminate side, or they've

1:14 done a lot of covers of really popular Christian music

1:16 and all that.

1:16 It's like, I, Kyle, I didn't think you like that stuff.

1:18 But the thing about them is they are very, very serious

1:21 about something, and I read this during the interview,

1:22 but I want to read it from their website.

1:24 This is why they create the music that they create, OK?

1:27 So here we go. Here's from their website.

1:28 Their desire has always been to glorify the Lord

1:31 instead of themselves, and they do so by writing music

1:34 that is biblically based, lyrically rich,

1:37 and sonically engaging.

1:39 And so, I mean, just being able to do those things,

1:42 most of the stuff you listen to on K-Love or Air One

1:45 or any of those playlists that you get on Spotify or whatever,

1:47 are they biblically based, lyrically rich,

1:49 and sonically engaging?

1:51 I mean, I defy you to make an entire playlist of 10 songs

1:55 that's, you know, in the top 40 on Christian radio right now

1:58 that do all three of those things.

2:00 Well, for my money, I think Shane and Shane

2:02 does that to an tremendous degree.

2:04 So just right from the jump here, guys,

2:06 go ahead and make fun of me, because I was geeking out.

2:08 I was having a good time.

2:09 I was geeking out off air, because I've actually tried

2:11 to get this booked for a few years,

2:13 and, you know, shout out to one of our listeners,

2:15 because he actually knew someone that kind of

2:17 knew their booking person and all that type of thing.

2:19 And so it took way too long to get a conversation like this

2:22 going, but I'm glad we were able to get that going here.

2:24 But we do talk about how they met,

2:26 how they got into music, kind of, you know,

2:28 what they try to create their process,

2:30 because they've released a lot of, you know, original music,

2:33 but then they've also released a ton of covers

2:36 of worship songs and how that ties into something they do

2:38 called the worship initiative,

2:40 which is basically trying to equip worship leaders

2:43 and worship bands all over the planet to be able to learn

2:46 how to play songs that glorify the Lord

2:48 and to learn them in a way that is actually conducive

2:50 to them being able to do that and have that be a goal

2:53 and to achieve that goal.

2:55 But we go through all that information.

2:57 We talk about some of my favorite songs of theirs.

2:59 I asked them, you know, like, hey,

3:00 if you had to delete all your albums except one,

3:02 which one would it be?

3:03 And they each had different ones.

3:04 And if you can only leave one song for humanity,

3:06 which would you do?

3:07 And then I told them what my favorite was.

3:08 And if you guys have been listening to the show

3:09 for any length of time, you know,

3:10 exactly what that's going to be.

3:12 But about halfway through, we start talking about something

3:14 that I talked about on episode 176 of this podcast.

3:16 Again, that episode is called contemporary worship music

3:19 is for women and effeminate men.

3:21 Some people kind of chuckle at that,

3:23 but most of the guys in my audience,

3:24 they just kind of shake their head and go, oh, yeah.

3:26 Yeah, right?

3:27 Doesn't everybody know that?

3:28 So we talk about that a little bit

3:29 because these guys are in that scene.

3:31 They're playing in front of some of those crowds.

3:33 But, you know, we talk about kind of my history with music

3:35 and how I'm more drawn to Christian metal.

3:37 We talk about, you know, different styles

3:39 and, you know, basically doing what it takes

3:41 to have that music point you towards the father.

3:43 We talk about the emotional manipulation

3:45 of a lot of music that is playing a lot of bands

3:48 that play in this genre.

3:49 And I really like their answers about that

3:51 because these guys aren't big on that.

3:53 And you would say, well, they play songs

3:54 that are kind of doing that,

3:56 but they are really trying to talk about

3:58 the capital P presence of the Lord.

4:00 There are people that are doing that with ill intent

4:02 'cause they're trying to bring glory to themselves

4:04 or their ministry, but that's not what Shane and Shane does.

4:06 But then we also talked about a lot of Christian bands,

4:09 if you will, they are filled up with people

4:12 that aren't actually Christians.

4:13 That these people don't have their faith in Christ

4:15 for the payment, for their sins, right?

4:17 They don't have that.

4:19 They're just session musicians.

4:20 They're just really good at playing bass or guitar,

4:22 drums or keys or something like that.

4:24 So we get into all that information.

4:25 We get into how long are they gonna keep doing

4:27 what they're doing now?

4:28 And at the very, very end.

4:30 So if you stayed towards the end

4:31 of this very, very long intro, they dropped some news on us.

4:35 And I gotta tell you, I follow them on social media

4:37 and all that, they had not mentioned this before,

4:40 but they dropped something right after the very end

4:43 where I say, basically, thank you for coming on

4:45 on Don't the Life of Man's podcast.

4:47 And then they, boom, dropped a bomb on us.

4:49 So if you don't wanna stick around to the end,

4:51 that's gonna be your problem is you're not gonna know

4:54 that information that they broke here on this show.

4:57 So I think I've set it up long enough.

5:00 So guys, without further ado, let's get into it.

5:03 Shane Bernard and Shane Everett,

5:04 welcome to Don't the Life of Man's podcast.

5:06 - Hey. - Come on, here we are.

5:08 It's been a while.

5:10 We've been trying to find you for years.

5:12 - You've been trying to find you guys so funny.

5:14 - We're like, can we get on this podcast with Kyle?

5:18 - Here's the deal.

5:20 That's like a Disney movie, right?

5:21 Because you've been looking for me.

5:22 I've been looking for you.

5:23 And then we meet in some magical forest

5:25 and all of a sudden we all fall in love.

5:27 That's great.

5:28 Now, did I introduce y'all in the proper order?

5:30 'Cause I just went basically based on, you know,

5:32 alphabetical last name, but I mean,

5:34 does anyone ever call you by your last names anymore?

5:36 Or do they just call you as this combo first name thing?

5:39 - Yeah, we're just, we just respond plurally.

5:44 - Yeah.

5:45 - You know, when everybody says,

5:47 cinema says Shane, we're just right there for him, you know?

5:50 And we can kind of, we do like one word answers.

5:53 We'll all say a word and he'll say a word.

5:55 - Yeah, our pronouns are we us.

5:57 - We us, hey, that works, hey.

5:59 - That's ridiculous.

6:00 - I'm good to get there from the very beginning.

6:02 Hey, on my high school baseball team,

6:04 there were four Kyle's, okay?

6:06 So when Kyle messed up, when Kyle did something good,

6:09 like it was either really, really bad for the Kyle's

6:11 or really, really awesome for the Kyle's.

6:12 But we're gonna get into a lot of stuff today

6:14 because, you know, I've talked about you guys on our show a lot.

6:16 I've called you guys the goats of worship music.

6:19 I may even call this episode that, yeah.

6:21 Isn't that exciting?

6:22 Isn't that fancy?

6:23 Don't y'all feel special?

6:24 I don't have a plaque or a trophy, but I can work on it.

6:26 But I guess we should probably start generically

6:28 for those in my audience who are not familiar with you guys.

6:31 So, super generic question to start off the day.

6:34 How did you guys meet?

6:35 And how did you decide to start making music?

6:38 - Well, we haven't decided yet.

6:41 - Yeah, we're still thinking about it.

6:43 Shane and I met at Texas A&M University.

6:47 We were both business majors, no business doing anything

6:50 in ministry or music.

6:52 Neither one of us had much of a musical background

6:56 or any background in the Lord.

6:57 When I met Shane, he wasn't a believer.

6:59 I did, however, no four chords, GCD and E minor

7:05 and 20 worship songs.

7:07 And that's all I did.

7:09 You know, I was a sports kid and Shane was a sports kid.

7:13 And, you know, when I became a believer out of the blue,

7:16 I didn't grow up in a Christian home in high school.

7:19 Somebody's mind got together and sang songs to Jesus

7:24 and every Sunday night.

7:27 And it kind of continued through college.

7:29 And my roommates asked me to play a concert

7:32 that they were putting on in a field at A&M.

7:35 And they put me at the two o'clock position

7:39 in this festival.

7:42 But I didn't have a guitar that plugged in.

7:43 I'd never sang it to a microphone, never wrote a song.

7:46 I think they probably just needed to fill the spot.

7:49 So I went down the street, borrowed a guitar

7:53 from the guy named Shane, had a guitar that plugged in.

7:56 And that's how we met, played this concert.

7:59 It was horrible, but it was the launching point

8:03 of this crazy left turn.

8:07 I mean that nobody, especially me, you know,

8:12 music has never been a passion.

8:14 It just was the Lord saying, here's what's gonna happen.

8:20 And waking up and trying to give him a yes.

8:24 So, you know, I dropped out of school a couple months later,

8:26 had this really horrible CD that sold out

8:29 of the back of the car and Shane got saved in a bar.

8:34 Cool story if you wanna hear it.

8:36 A couple of weeks after I borrowed the guitar

8:37 and then he started jumping in my car

8:40 and we would go play these coffee shops and youth groups

8:44 and college groups and all that, you know.

8:47 And we were off to the races

8:48 and that's what we still do.

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9:49 - Well, so the interesting thing about that

9:51 is you knew four chords and I've heard that

9:52 in order to sell number one records in country music,

9:55 it's just three chords in the truth.

9:56 So you were already out doing country music, right?

9:59 - Oh, sure, sure.

9:59 - In the additional core and all of that.

10:02 I mean, George Strait has written the same song

10:04 about a thousand times and he's considered the goat

10:07 by many in that era, but so eventually y'all came up

10:10 with the world's most creative title for a band ever

10:12 and that Shane and Shane just combining the first name,

10:15 but you got the ampersand in the middle.

10:16 So it's a little bit interesting.

10:18 You can do some things with that.

10:19 - Mixing it up.

10:20 - Yeah, absolutely.

10:21 There was something interesting from your website though

10:23 because even just hearing you describe

10:26 what you just described, it's weird to see this

10:28 from your website, but from the website,

10:30 their desire has always been to glorify the Lord

10:32 instead of themselves and they do so by writing music

10:34 that is biblically based, lyrically rich

10:37 and sonically engaging.

10:39 Take me, I mean, for me, guys, just take me through

10:41 your writing process.

10:43 When it comes to writing original music,

10:45 we'll get to the whole panoply of contemporary Christian music

10:49 and how all that goes, but that's one thing

10:51 that does come through in your music.

10:53 It is very rich.

10:54 There's a lot there.

10:55 It's not as vapid is what you would hear

10:57 maybe in a lot of Christian radio,

10:58 but to start not even wanting to be in music,

11:02 just wanting to kind of do the business thing

11:04 to making that your goal biblically based,

11:06 lyrically rich, and sonically engaging music,

11:08 take me through that process

11:10 and how you can make original music today.

11:12 - Yeah, man, it's definitely been a process for sure.

11:16 I mean, back when we first started,

11:18 we didn't have a grid for anything, anything musically.

11:24 And so it was like, man, I think they used to sing the Bible.

11:29 - The Psalms, and we did our first record together

11:34 was Shine and Shine Psalms.

11:39 - Yep.

11:40 - And we were just like bumping into life,

11:43 singing the Psalms,

11:45 and that started to really inform a lot of our life.

11:50 Just singing the Bible over and over again.

11:54 And that just became just a sovereign trend

11:59 of like, man, over the years,

12:01 we don't have a ton or anything

12:04 to bring to the table other than Jesus

12:07 and the finished work of the cross

12:09 and how that is all unpacked

12:12 and his worth is unpacked in this book.

12:15 And so we've just been,

12:19 some of it's still mysterious, man.

12:20 It's like, there's a stairwell here at the studio

12:25 that I go into this stairwell.

12:29 It's probably the most uninspiring looking place

12:31 in the building.

12:32 It's just a fire escape with pipes and roaches.

12:36 But it sounds awesome.

12:37 And so I go in there and take these biblical snippets

12:41 that over the week,

12:45 I've just been recording on my phone

12:47 and start singing it.

12:50 And just some of that's,

12:52 there's patterns to that,

12:54 but a lot of it's just, man, waiting on the Lord.

12:56 And however that works,

12:59 where melody hits,

13:01 you kind of try to wrap melody around glory.

13:04 And that sounds pretty impossible.

13:07 And you just, you know,

13:11 wait on something 'til you,

13:13 it's like, I kind of like that.

13:15 I mean, at least I like it.

13:16 So whatever, you know?

13:18 - Well, I was gonna ask you,

13:19 'cause you mentioned Psalms,

13:20 that was your first record

13:21 that you put out there together.

13:23 And that was kind of where I discovered you guys in college.

13:25 And we'll get more into kind of my history

13:26 with contemporary Christian music and all that.

13:29 But I always knew,

13:30 not always new 'cause I didn't grow up in church either,

13:32 but the Psalms were meant to be saying.

13:35 And then they were, whether they were of lament or glory

13:37 or any of those types of things.

13:38 But it was interesting to my ear holes to be like,

13:41 "Oh, they're singing scripture."

13:43 And like, I will hear people or read scripture

13:45 and I'm hearing you guys singing it in my head.

13:48 And it's not distracting me, it's helping me.

13:50 And so I wonder how that's different

13:52 for either of you.

13:53 So that's when you're writing original music, right?

13:55 So what is the scripture telling me?

13:56 And how can we add music to it?

13:58 I don't know anything about music.

13:59 So I don't really know how that would all work.

14:01 But how's that differ between that

14:04 and then covering an existing Christian song

14:06 because there are literally thousands of those.

14:08 And I think y'all have recorded each of them twice.

14:10 And so it's like, this way, like how do you write

14:12 something that's already been written,

14:14 but just do it in the Shane and Shane way?

14:16 - Hmm.

14:17 Well, our purpose behind that, you're right on all of that.

14:22 But God had kind of put on our heart

14:26 and sort of aligned some stars in our life

14:29 to create a resource online called the Worship Initiative.

14:33 And all of those songs really were existed as a carrot

14:38 to get people to a place called theworshipinnishdiv.com

14:43 where we wrap all of those songs with resources

14:45 like from scripture, devotionals,

14:49 and everything it takes to play the songs,

14:52 musically, tutorial videos and vocal tutorial.

14:57 I mean, all the things that you would need

14:58 just as a worship leader to do that.

15:00 So all these songs that you just hear

15:03 wherever you stream music and they're just songs

15:06 that are out there in the church being sung,

15:09 we've done so that we could get people into a place

15:12 and walk with them in the Lord as worship pastors.

15:17 - Yeah, but people don't know that even, like generally,

15:20 like they think we just are the rose prolific cover band

15:25 in Christian music.

15:27 You know, it's just like, God, these guys just,

15:29 they don't think anybody can do it as well as them.

15:31 So they just record every song that exists,

15:34 which kind of feels that way.

15:36 But like Shane said, you know, I mean,

15:38 even when we go out on the road,

15:40 people will be like, man, we love the Worship Initiative.

15:41 And I'm like, awesome.

15:43 So yeah, you're on the website and they're like,

15:46 what website?

15:47 - Yeah.

15:47 - You know, so we haven't did a good job.

15:50 We're like the worst self promoters on the planet.

15:52 So we're just like, you know, we long to see the mantle

15:57 of leading, the mantle of standing in front of men and women

16:03 on behalf of God and communicating the word through song

16:06 and communicating the heart of God to his kids through song.

16:10 And we want those people, you know,

16:13 whoever they are to be equipped, you know,

16:16 equipped for the good work that the Lord has called in to do.

16:19 And so we just wanted to help.

16:20 And so it was kind of an online discipleship tool

16:23 where we were just like, man, what you're doing is important.

16:26 And it's important because you're speaking to God's kids

16:30 and God loves his kids.

16:31 And so man, you want to do that

16:33 and you want to care for them well.

16:35 And so that's what the Worship Initiative exists for

16:38 to help leaders and musicians and songwriters

16:43 to not just accurately hold the word of God up in a way

16:51 that's, I would say honoring

16:56 and also the invitation that's available to people

17:03 to know him and to love him

17:04 and to be a part of the family.

17:08 So that's what we do with the Worship Initiative

17:11 and hopefully it's helpful.

17:13 - Yeah, when I've got a link in the show notes to that

17:15 because I would do want to make one quick observation,

17:18 use the word honoring.

17:20 So we have a mutual friend in Joby Martin

17:22 of Church of 1122 down there in Jacksonville, Florida.

17:25 And he knows how big a fan I am of you guys.

17:28 But he didn't even hook this up.

17:29 What's wrong with that guy?

17:30 But the thing that I've heard him say before

17:32 is the band that plays at his church,

17:35 the house church, the worship band,

17:37 he's not going to let them sing words that are not biblical.

17:40 So you have a lot of these modern songs

17:41 that are very emotional, very almost romantic,

17:43 but they don't even resemble anything

17:46 that's vaguely like the Godhead that we know from scripture.

17:49 And so that's the thing about how you honor God through that.

17:51 And the funny thing about the Worship Initiative

17:53 is when you all started releasing those,

17:55 that was way back in the day, guys,

17:57 when you could pay $9.99 and then you would get that album.

18:02 You didn't pay $9.99 and then you could stream

18:04 every album ever made.

18:05 And so I was with you guys for the first 10,

18:08 'cause I thought there was only gonna be 10 of these albums.

18:10 I had no idea.

18:11 And then he released number 11.

18:12 I was like, what is wrong with you guys?

18:15 You're just stealing from me now.

18:16 I don't have money.

18:17 Like, come on, man, this is early in my marriage.

18:19 But then when I found out, wait a minute,

18:21 y'all are helping break down how to play these songs

18:23 because it's very, very easy for the person sitting

18:25 in the pews to point at the worship band

18:27 and be like, yeah, that bass is a very good,

18:29 or that drummer's not really my style.

18:30 It's like, look, these are just kind of weak in warriors.

18:32 A lot of these people aren't session musicians.

18:34 They're not being paid to do this.

18:35 They're trying to glorify God in the best way possible.

18:38 And y'all are trying to help them sharpen the sword

18:40 a little bit.

18:41 And so I absolutely love that.

18:43 And so I can kind of give you a little bit of a pass

18:45 on the fact that you guys have recorded

18:47 about 2,485 albums by now.

18:50 But there's a lot out there

18:51 if you guys wanna just hit shuffle on their playlist.

18:53 But I've been real nice up to this point, guys.

18:56 And I've kind of tutted you guys.

18:58 And I told you guys how big a fan I am.

19:00 But I'm actually really mad at you guys.

19:02 Do you wanna know why?

19:03 - I do.

19:04 - Okay, so way back in 2006,

19:08 when I was in college just mining my own business,

19:10 you guys decided to release a little EP

19:13 called the Bluegrass Sampler, okay?

19:15 Now I proceeded to wear that EP completely out.

19:20 I loved it.

19:21 I still love it.

19:22 Your Bluegrass versions of power in the blood

19:23 and blessed assurance were stunningly awesome.

19:26 That's like still in my probably top 10

19:28 of y'all's entire catalog, okay?

19:29 But that led me to believe, yeah.

19:32 Hang with me here.

19:33 That led me to believe that you guys would eventually

19:36 release a full album of Bluegrass songs.

19:40 And I am furious to report to my audience

19:42 that here I am 17 years later.

19:45 And I've yet to hear an entire Shane and Shane

19:47 Bluegrass album.

19:48 And I am not pleased with you.

19:50 So I guess my question is why are you guys doing this to me?

19:54 Can you hook me up?

19:55 - I think the answer is that you and another person

20:00 named Larry are the only two people listening to that.

20:04 And so you're going to have to recruit some more folks

20:07 before we...

20:09 - You know what's funny about that?

20:10 My family, like my family,

20:13 I mean, we are just absolutely rednecks.

20:17 And like my grandfather's brother

20:22 and all of the down line of like all the efforts,

20:26 they are like, man, you guys, you did it one time.

20:31 One time you did it right.

20:33 Every other time was a mistake.

20:36 But it's the Bluegrass sampler.

20:38 That's their favorite record.

20:40 That's funny.

20:41 - I mean, 'cause I think in one of the worship initiatives,

20:43 there's kind of a blue grassy country song.

20:46 And I can't remember which one it is off the top of my head.

20:48 And I was like, they're toying with me again.

20:51 They're getting me to think that that's actually

20:52 gonna happen.

20:53 But if you guys can hook me up with Larry,

20:55 that would be awesome.

20:56 I would love to have him and jam out.

20:58 - That's my dad.

20:59 You know?

21:00 - Yeah.

21:01 - I'll hang out with Larry Everett.

21:02 - Yeah.

21:04 - I'm good with that.

21:05 Well, so I can continue to hang on hope

21:08 maybe by the 20 year anniversary of that,

21:11 y'all can release maybe just another three songs,

21:13 maybe not it, maybe just a sampler EP,

21:15 follow up, I mean, you guys record enough stuff.

21:17 You could probably just sneak that in to the queue

21:20 if you don't mind.

21:21 But I do have some questions.

21:23 So that, you know, I'm mad at you,

21:24 but I'm back now.

21:25 I feel good towards you guys.

21:26 - Okay.

21:27 - But I am gonna kind of put y'all on.

21:28 Yeah, absolutely.

21:29 I had to.

21:30 It's just been weighing on me all these years.

21:31 But now I do want to kind of put y'all

21:33 in a little bit of an uncomfortable position

21:35 to maybe pick your favorite children.

21:36 So I like to do this with artists, you know,

21:38 more writers or different things like that.

21:40 And so I'm gonna make each one of you choose

21:44 that if you had to leave one album, one LP

21:48 in your entire discography,

21:49 worship initiative, you know, original stuff, whatever.

21:53 And you can only leave one album each

21:55 for all of humanity.

21:56 And we had to delete all the other ones,

21:59 Men in Black style.

22:00 And no one remembers any of that.

22:02 And the only way that humanity will know

22:03 that Shane and Shane existed is that album,

22:06 which album are each of you gonna choose?

22:08 - Mine.

22:13 This is, yeah, this is the Shane B over here.

22:16 Mine's gonna be the Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs live.

22:21 - Which just released.

22:22 How about that?

22:22 - Which is released.

22:23 - And you know, it's just special to me.

22:27 I don't know.

22:28 I think I'd gladly delete everything else.

22:32 - Wow, that's actually surprising to hear.

22:35 Well, that's really awesome.

22:36 And this actually works to your marketing benefit

22:39 because it's like, hey, it's out now.

22:40 Let's go get these first and second week streams.

22:42 - Right now, it's the brand new, right?

22:44 Right, so what about you, Everett?

22:45 - I think it's probably similar

22:47 because it's kind of, you know, Shane Bernard is,

22:50 you know, you've kind of joked around like internally.

22:52 It's his favorite song is the last one he's ever written,

22:55 you know?

22:56 So it's, I think it's always like that for us.

23:00 It's just like those, that's, that's kind of,

23:03 I think what the Lord's like doing seasonally.

23:06 And so I think there's, when you just finish something,

23:09 you've poured your heart and your soul into it, you know,

23:12 it's kind of like, man, this is kind of like,

23:14 what's happening now, you know?

23:16 And there's all, I think, you know,

23:18 hopefully we're growing as, as musicians

23:22 and songwriters and, you know, production-wise

23:26 and all the things.

23:27 But for me, I think probably Psalms 2 was probably the one

23:34 for that I thought was unique in a, in a sense,

23:38 some specific songs on it that were like really powerful

23:42 for me and my family.

23:44 But it's, you know, most of the songs that come out

23:48 of our camp are pretty devotional for us, you know?

23:51 And so, I think they're all like, they're not,

23:56 I don't think Shane specifically is necessarily

24:00 writing songs for people that even really, like,

24:05 for them, it's mostly, you know, his own walk with the Lord.

24:11 And so they're all super, super personal

24:14 and devotional in nature.

24:18 And the fact that that's helpful for other people

24:21 is a testament to the Word of God

24:23 and what the Word of God does.

24:24 And because that's, you know, really where I would say,

24:28 you know, most of the, not if all the inspiration comes

24:32 from the Spirit of God is Word, you know?

24:34 So, you know, it feels a little different than, you know,

24:38 writing a song about your puppy, you know?

24:40 It's just different, so.

24:42 - Well, the funny thing about that is some people would hear

24:45 that and be like, well, that's pretty selfish.

24:46 You're just making music for yourself.

24:48 It's like, well, no, the same thing with my podcast

24:51 whenever I prepare a solo episode or an interview,

24:53 it's like, I'm asking the questions

24:55 that I know my audience will want to know

24:57 because they're like me and I want to know the answers to that.

25:00 And so you guys are trying to fill a gap that I think

25:03 and we'll get way more into this

25:04 in the latter half of the interview.

25:06 I think y'all are filling a gap in the Christian music space

25:08 to where it's like, whenever I've spent time

25:10 with Phil Robertson, I've been down there a couple of times

25:13 to hang out with him and his family

25:14 and to be on their show and podcast.

25:15 And I think you guys have been on there as well.

25:17 That man is marinated in the scripture.

25:20 I don't know that that man has ever sat down,

25:22 opened up the Bible and said,

25:23 today I am going to memorize Matthew four versus, you know,

25:28 one through seven.

25:29 I don't think that's ever happened.

25:30 He just says, hey, look here, man.

25:31 And he'll flip over to this page and he'll be like,

25:33 then he'll talk about this and he'll be like,

25:34 hey, hey, look at this.

25:35 And then he'll go over to another page

25:37 is because he's marinated in the truth of scripture.

25:40 He doesn't just think of them whenever it's convenient

25:43 or whenever it pops into his head.

25:44 But hey, we'll get more into the philosophical here

25:46 in just a second.

25:47 So I've made you uncomfortable

25:48 to each of you picking one album.

25:50 Now we get one song.

25:52 So you're deleting every single song

25:55 that you've ever recorded in your entire lives,

25:58 even on the individual one, Shane Everett.

26:00 I've got your solo album.

26:01 It's awesome.

26:02 But all of the rock from rocks cry out to today, okay.

26:06 You get one, you get one song each.

26:09 And that's the only way we will know

26:10 that Shane and Shane existed.

26:11 Give it to me.

26:12 - Oh gosh.

26:14 You go first. I mean, I would say Psalm 23.

26:18 That's what I would say.

26:20 I feel like it's got everything in it.

26:23 Like that Psalm has got all the goods, man.

26:27 Like it's just like, it's like the full meal deal, you know?

26:32 I don't know.

26:34 If you were going to leave one song, one scripture,

26:37 it's so helpful.

26:38 - Okay, Psalm 23 from Everett.

26:41 What about you, Bernard?

26:42 - That's good.

26:45 - I mean, it's hard for me to say anything else

26:49 but the song called You've Already Won.

26:51 - Told you, last song he's ever written.

26:54 That's his favorite, always.

26:55 - I could gladly erase everything else.

26:57 - So Bernard, is it that you feel like all of your life

27:04 and all of your collective talents

27:06 and skill sets and experiences is coalescing

27:09 in whatever the last creative thing that you've created is.

27:12 Is it feel that way?

27:13 - No, no, no, not at all.

27:17 I think it's just, you know,

27:20 I have like this morbid side to me that way, you know,

27:23 where it's not necessarily morbid,

27:26 just maybe sober side.

27:28 Like I read that Psalm 90 a lot.

27:30 I visit graveyards, you know, on occasion,

27:34 just to get a real look at the brevity of life.

27:40 And I'm like, you know, none of us,

27:43 none of your listeners, me, we're just not promised tomorrow.

27:47 And if I'm gonna leave a song,

27:50 I think that song needs to be the song right now.

27:53 And if you ask me in two months,

27:55 it's probably gonna be a different song.

27:57 But we all may be dead.

27:59 - Hey, that's not macabre at all.

28:02 But hey, if you wanna come on,

28:04 if you wanna come on every two months

28:06 and then you can just update us on what the latest one is,

28:09 I'm gonna be honest with you.

28:10 That makes sense to my brain.

28:12 I'm drawn like, I know we've been kidding around a lot.

28:14 I'm drawn to a lot of the darker stuff.

28:16 I'm drawn to a lot of the laments.

28:18 And not just in scripture, just in general.

28:20 And I think that's part of what we do here at Undaunted Life.

28:22 It's equipping men to push back darkness.

28:24 You can't push back darkness

28:25 if you're walking around like this all the time

28:27 and plug in your ears and not trying to look around

28:29 and see it.

28:29 And it's like, darkness is scary.

28:32 It's really, really scary,

28:33 but we have to understand that we've won.

28:35 And so that's the, we know the end of the story.

28:37 So why are you scared now? It's kind of where I would go.

28:40 Now, here's for my money.

28:42 If I had to delete your entire discography,

28:44 this is where I would agree with Shane Everett.

28:46 It's Psalms 2 for me.

28:47 So I've gone on record as saying this

28:49 and I will fight physically and emotionally,

28:52 anybody that differs with me on this.

28:54 Psalms 2 is the greatest single Christian worship album

28:57 front to back ever created, full stop.

29:00 Now, now, part of the reason is,

29:03 is because of my number one

29:05 chain and chain song of all time

29:06 that is above all the, all the others

29:08 and even shoulders, head and shoulders above.

29:10 And that's Psalm 46.

29:11 Psalm 46, more of those.

29:14 And here's why.

29:16 Cause I remember that is the greatest Christian worship song,

29:19 original Christian worship song ever written, full stop.

29:22 But y'all came to some church in Oklahoma

29:25 and I'd seen y'all several times in concert,

29:27 but this was right.

29:28 It was a Christmas album,

29:29 or it was a Christmas show that you're playing

29:32 with Phil Wickham and it was right after Psalms 2 came out.

29:35 And I had heard Psalm 46.

29:37 I was like, that song's fricking awesome.

29:38 That song makes me wish I was born 3000 years ago

29:41 with a spear in my hand.

29:42 But then I heard y'all play it live.

29:44 And it's the closest I feel like I've been to,

29:46 not listening to metal,

29:48 where I was like, where's the nearest brick wall?

29:51 Cause I'm running through it

29:52 and seeing what's on the other side of that thing.

29:54 Like that's what that song did to me.

29:57 So I just kind of have to ask you guys,

29:59 give me the background on that song

30:01 or on that entire album.

30:02 Because again, you start your career together

30:04 with Psalms and that kind of got a lot of people

30:07 into your style.

30:08 And then I feel like Psalms too

30:10 was just the culmination of everything y'all had done

30:13 and experienced and seen in the Christian music scene,

30:16 if you will.

30:17 And then Psalm 46, I think that is the closest thing

30:20 to a modern day Psalm.

30:22 That's not a metal song.

30:24 And we'll talk more about that here in just a second.

30:26 So give me the background on the album and Lord of Host.

30:28 - You know, funny thing is,

30:30 that was a really busy time when we were doing,

30:34 when we had that record on the books,

30:39 we had started the worship initiative,

30:41 we'd committed to our Kickstarter tribe

30:45 that if we hit a certain marker,

30:48 we were gonna do a Psalms too record and we hit it.

30:52 And so because we were creating the worship initiative,

30:56 it came to this, we were going to record Psalms too.

31:01 It was a month out and we had zero songs.

31:08 - Oh boy.

31:09 - So for that month, because we had to,

31:14 like it came to a point we were late

31:17 and it's like we gotta do it.

31:18 We booked the band, everybody, everything is in the books.

31:22 And so we just gotta do it.

31:23 So it was a really cool process of like,

31:27 just seeing the Lord come through and flex.

31:30 And I was listening all day long of just,

31:35 I mean, that song in particular happened,

31:40 there's multiple sections of that song

31:44 that I had written years before,

31:48 word for word, note for note.

31:50 And then I heard, you know, somebody else sent me another

31:53 song, a friend of mine.

31:56 And then I loved this section and then combined

32:02 with this section and I'm reading through, you know,

32:07 Charles Spurgeon's commentary and a couple others.

32:10 And it's just like, you know, it's just,

32:12 it all just came together.

32:15 And so I love, I was telling Shane yesterday that,

32:19 like I don't know if I can write a song

32:23 through the Psalms without reading the treasury

32:27 of David Spurgeon's commentary on it.

32:29 'Cause it is so enlightening, it is so helpful.

32:32 He's pointing to Jesus around every corner, you know,

32:37 and it is great.

32:38 So that had a big part to do, just unpacking,

32:42 like what's behind, you know, be still a note that I'm God.

32:45 That's great, we all have that on the coffee cup

32:47 and the bumper sticker, but, you know,

32:49 what's the backdrop of that?

32:51 And so then trying to paint a picture musically

32:53 of sort of like what the lyrics are saying,

32:58 what the backdrop is saying

33:00 and then trying to represent that musically too.

33:02 So yeah.

33:03 - Well, I think the interesting thing about that is,

33:05 so I've got the Spurgeon Psalms commentary

33:07 sitting about 10 feet away from me right now.

33:10 And I mean, those are the words of a preacher.

33:12 Like when you're talking to that guy,

33:13 he's not just a theologian and I don't mean to demean

33:15 the theologians in any way, shape, or form,

33:17 but this was a preacher like that.

33:18 That was what he did.

33:19 He was spreading the gospel of Christ verbally

33:22 and explicitly, right?

33:23 And what's interesting about that is my favorite band

33:26 of all time is a band you may not have heard of named Zao.

33:28 And the funny thing about them is their most rushed album

33:32 is an album called Parade of Chaos.

33:34 And it's their worst album.

33:35 Like, and it was just they were like writing it

33:37 on the dashboard of the, you know, the car

33:41 as they're writing to the studio and those types of things.

33:43 And it's just like, it's just not my favorite thing

33:45 that they've ever done.

33:46 It's easily skippable for me.

33:47 So it's very interesting that y'all were kind of

33:49 backs to the wall.

33:50 Hey, we gotta put something out there that's not terrible.

33:52 And so, and then you came up with that.

33:54 So maybe just do that from now on.

33:56 And maybe just every time you record an album,

33:58 which is apparently every 14 days, just do it in 28 days

34:01 and then do it and then write it in 27 days

34:03 and then you just kind of keep working your way down.

34:05 But kind of the main reason that I wanted to talk to you guys

34:09 'cause everyone's gonna make fun of me for later

34:10 'cause I'm totally geeking out.

34:12 I'm really enjoying this.

34:13 But part of the main reason I wanted to talk to you guys

34:17 is I wanted to get kind of an inside baseball look

34:19 at something that is very, very concerning

34:21 to my audience, okay?

34:22 So I've talked about this off air to you guys

34:25 and told you about kind of who my audience is,

34:27 typically rougher guys.

34:28 Well, we're closing in on 500 episodes of this podcast.

34:32 But to this day, episode 176 of my podcast

34:35 is still one of the most listened to

34:36 and most shared episodes.

34:38 The name of that episode is contemporary worship music

34:41 is for women and effeminate men.

34:44 And on episode like two or three,

34:46 I mentioned how much I hated contemporary Christian music,

34:49 it just sucks.

34:49 I don't wanna listen to it, it's awful.

34:51 And then I would also say, but change change cool

34:54 and then I would move on with my life.

34:56 And then the reason why is because guys,

34:58 I didn't grow up in church.

34:59 I didn't grow up reading the Bible.

35:01 I don't know any Bible stories.

35:02 I started going on my own in middle school

35:04 'cause that's where all the hot girls went on Wednesday night

35:06 was the first Baptist West in law in Oklahoma,

35:09 which was really close to my house,

35:10 which was mega convenient.

35:11 And then the Lord had other plans for me in 10th grade,

35:14 Hellfire and Brimstone guest preacher

35:16 came in on a Sunday night and snatched me out.

35:18 And Calvinist would say that he picked me.

35:20 I would say that I turned to him,

35:21 but we don't have to talk about that right now.

35:23 And here I am, I'm saved.

35:24 And now I gotta do all the Christian stuff, okay?

35:26 So I went to the Christian bookstore.

35:28 I bought a book, Bible that looked like it was meant

35:30 for a teenager and I started devouring the word,

35:33 started a Matthew and then rounded back

35:35 towards the Old Testament.

35:36 But then I started listening to Christian music.

35:40 And I was like, maybe I'm broken because I don't like it.

35:44 It's not good.

35:45 I don't want to make those sounds come out of my mouth.

35:48 Like this musically doesn't appeal to me.

35:50 And around the same time, guys,

35:52 a friend of mine introduced me to Zayo,

35:54 who have already mentioned in their album, Blood and Fire

35:57 and another brand named Living Sacrifice

35:59 that had a metal album released at that time called Reborn.

36:02 Christian metal bands.

36:04 And as soon as I hit play on these albums made sense.

36:07 And I'm worshiping the Lord to this

36:10 as opposed to, you know, the hand raising eyes closed,

36:12 you know, big kind of thing.

36:14 And it was like, man, maybe something is broken in me.

36:17 And then I get into my twenties and I feel like,

36:19 man, there's some rough dudes that walk into church

36:22 and see some of the guys walking around

36:23 and listening to the music and the lyrics are kind of

36:25 almost homo, erotic in nature.

36:27 If you took out Jesus name and put in Frank,

36:29 it's like, okay, we're singing songs

36:30 to our boyfriend named Frank.

36:32 And like, this is kind of weird,

36:33 but they don't have the emotional wherewithal

36:35 to like know why they're even thinking that.

36:38 And they become very uncomfortable with the whole worship side

36:40 and then they just delete it.

36:41 They say, I'm not going to do that.

36:43 I know that's a really long set up to a question,

36:45 but I guess I want you guys to speak to my audience

36:48 because I've tried to introduce them to you.

36:49 And I talk about Psalms too quite a bit

36:51 and Lord of hosts and those types of things to be like,

36:53 if you're rougher and you like that kind of really edgy music,

36:56 here's some stuff that's like that.

36:58 But what would you say to guys that are like,

37:00 man, you know, 'cause I had a worship leader in my area

37:02 tell me I may not be saved

37:04 'cause I don't like contemporary Christian music.

37:05 And he meant it.

37:06 And I was like, there are guys that feel like,

37:08 maybe I'm not saved because I don't like listening to K1

37:12 or Air One or K-Love or whatever it's called.

37:14 So just help me from just going off on another diatribe.

37:18 Talk to my audience a little bit.

37:20 - Yeah, I can totally see that.

37:25 We might be bad people to ask the question

37:30 because Shane Everett's about to respond with,

37:32 all I listen to is podcasts like yours

37:35 and talk radio.

37:37 And the last time you listened to a song,

37:41 it was, could have been like three years ago.

37:43 And then I'm gonna be a bad person to answer that

37:47 because funny enough, what I over the last 10 years

37:52 have been listening to if I listen to music is the,

37:55 especially for your audience,

37:57 the pride and prejudice soundtrack.

37:59 I'm sorry.

38:01 So I think I'm the wrong guy to answer.

38:05 So your question, so, so there you go.

38:10 But I know Jesus is real and I know that you could know him

38:14 and I know that he can satisfy your heart

38:16 in a way that music can't in a way that alcohol can't.

38:21 And in a way that all the money in the world can't.

38:25 And he's the only one who can do that.

38:28 And so, you know, sometimes music is really helpful

38:31 when you wrap music around the truth of God.

38:34 It's helpful and you know, we're all gonna have like,

38:37 we're all just gonna have our own preference, you know,

38:41 and we talk to worship bands all the time.

38:43 And I'm like, you know, and worked with worship bands

38:46 over the years and kind of got to rebuke them

38:50 and admonish them of like, man,

38:54 have you seen who's coming to your church?

38:58 Why in the world?

39:00 What is going on, you know?

39:03 And just like, man, your job is to serve your body.

39:07 And if, you know, the top 80% of your church is 65 and,

39:12 and you know, what are you doing playing oceans,

39:17 you know, over and over?

39:18 I mean, you know, what's going on here?

39:20 Is this about you?

39:20 Is it what's, you know, our job is to just simply serve

39:25 the body and lead songs that help us see and love

39:31 and enjoy King Jesus.

39:34 And so anyway, we could get on a tangent there

39:38 and I don't know if that's where you wanna go,

39:39 but just everybody's gonna have a different style.

39:42 And, you know, the cool thing about what we get to do

39:46 is like, I like to think about how can I create something

39:50 that brings in a rough guy who hasn't, you know,

39:55 been to church much, but has something in him

40:00 that's drawing him to the Lord and then his 14-year-old.

40:05 And then a widow, I mean, how do you put all these people

40:11 in the same room or the same car and enjoy Jesus together?

40:16 And I like the thought of that.

40:17 And, you know, you might listen to Psalm 46 on that record

40:20 and, you know, be pumping iron and then you get to, you know,

40:24 Psalm 23 and you're like, oh no, man, this guy probably

40:28 listens to Pride and Prejudice too much, you know?

40:29 (both laughing)

40:32 So it's, you know, it's just gonna,

40:34 it's just gonna ebb and flow.

40:36 And I love that about the Psalms 'cause they do that.

40:38 They just, they just ebb and flow.

40:41 I mean, 30% of them are at least 30% of them are laments.

40:45 And they're sad and it's like, you know, you imagine the flute

40:49 and the lyre and the heart and in a minor tune, you know,

40:53 there's not gonna be any weights going, you know,

40:55 weight room music, it's just not happening.

40:59 But other, you know, it's like, man,

41:01 this is a friggin' work cry.

41:03 And give me the brick wall, you know, and let's go.

41:06 And so it's always a treat to try to wrap music

41:11 around these kinds of thoughts, you know?

41:14 - Yeah, and I think too, like just to add to that,

41:16 I think, you know, Shane and I have had the opportunity

41:19 to do some really cool things with an organization

41:24 called Men of Nehemiah, which is, I mean, just basically

41:28 a room full of convicts, you know?

41:30 And then also an organization called Teen Challenge.

41:34 And I think there's something to guys that have been

41:40 deemed in our society as like, outcasts would be too,

41:46 it'd be too gentle of a word, but like throwaways, you know?

41:52 Just like, there's no hope for somebody like you, you know?

41:55 If you're, you know, you got face tats and neck tats,

41:59 it's just like, but man, dude, there's something,

42:01 there's something about when you sing scripture

42:05 with a group of people who've basically been thrown away

42:09 to hear, if they can hear by the Holy Spirit of God

42:12 that Jesus loves them and he has a purpose for their life.

42:17 Man, it's some of the sweetest times of worship

42:20 we've ever been a part of.

42:21 I mean, we were with some guys just a few days ago,

42:24 a few weeks ago where the whole room look like, you know,

42:29 a prison yard and we start singing the word of God

42:33 and the spirit of God was like in an authentic way,

42:38 communicating that truth.

42:41 And man, we just, we just kept going.

42:43 And we were singing songs that were some of the most

42:45 feminine songs probably you've ever heard, you know?

42:48 And like, it was like powerful.

42:51 And it's something about, you know, what was that quote?

42:56 It's just like, it's hard to dance.

42:58 It's hard to dance at your arraignment when you've been,

43:02 it's hard to dance at your arraignment

43:04 when you've been on death row.

43:06 It's just like people who understand what it means

43:09 to be forgiven much, rejoice much.

43:12 And that's something that we've gotten to see.

43:16 And a lot of times it's not about,

43:18 just like Shane saying, it's not about style,

43:20 it's about the truth.

43:21 And when the truth lands on the fertile heart of a soil,

43:24 the fertile soil of a heart,

43:25 man, there's, there is great celebration.

43:28 I think in heaven and on earth, it's crazy.

43:31 - I think the best way to explain it to you,

43:33 the easiest way to explain that,

43:35 whether that's in a car,

43:37 driving down the road or a kitchen or a cubicle

43:39 or a congregation, whatever, wherever you're receiving

43:42 that moment, you know, you're listening to that song.

43:45 Colossians 3 16 says,

43:47 "May the word of Christ dwell richly in you

43:50 "as you sing Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs

43:53 "with gratefulness gotten your heart."

43:55 And I think that's kind of maybe that,

43:57 what Shane's talking about is the word of Christ

44:01 begins to dwell richly in you.

44:02 You're like, "Man, I know Jesus loves me, blah, blah, blah."

44:05 And then you have this moment where you're like,

44:07 "Oh, Jesus loves me."

44:10 You know, and it's different.

44:11 It's a different moment.

44:13 And that's the thing that we've seen over the years,

44:18 like Shane said, the roughest,

44:23 I mean, hundreds of people who are just the roughest folks

44:29 out there, melt, you know, to, you know,

44:33 ♪ As the deer panted for ♪

44:37 They're just on the floor, they can't handle it

44:41 because they're going, my soul just wants him.

44:46 And I, how could he love someone like me?

44:49 Makes no sense.

44:50 And I get the benefit of the best deal of the universe.

44:54 It makes no sense.

44:55 And they're just, and so it's been,

44:58 that's a very interesting thing that you just said,

45:03 that I've never really thought about that much,

45:06 about the roughest crowds

45:07 that we've been in have been the softest crowds, for sure.

45:09 - That's true.

45:10 Well, I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore the fact

45:13 that you gave two shout outs to the Pride and Prejudice,

45:16 sounds like on my podcast.

45:18 - Can you delete that?

45:19 - We're just gonna sit right on, but I won't delete it.

45:22 - You need it on the record.

45:23 - You should like blur his mouth and put that...

45:27 (imitates blaring)

45:29 I'm gonna blur it, I'm gonna blur it in a way

45:31 where it sounds like you said something dirty.

45:33 That's how I'm gonna do it.

45:34 I'm gonna be like, make it sound like you said a cuss word.

45:36 But in all honesty, so just recently

45:40 I had the absolute privilege of talking to men in prison

45:44 in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania.

45:45 And a lot of the guys that I talked to,

45:47 murderers, rapists, pedophiles, kidnappers,

45:50 a lot of guys that would never see the outside of that cell.

45:52 And I have a different approach to things.

45:54 Like, everyone loves to talk about Lamb of God

45:56 'cause he's easy to understand.

45:57 I talk about Lion of Judah

45:59 because that tends to, the guys are a little bit rougher.

46:02 They need to understand the lion

46:03 so that the lamb makes sense as well.

46:05 And I just got this text last night,

46:06 it's probably providential,

46:07 but from the chaplain of that penitentiary

46:11 he said, just left the penitentiary.

46:12 Frank, the leader of the congregation inside

46:14 asked me to express his gratitude

46:16 for your message of tough and tender Jesus.

46:19 He's been able to minister to men

46:21 who are otherwise resistant to the good news

46:23 because they can't identify with a wimpy Christ.

46:26 You're still making an impact on these men

46:29 even after a month 'cause I was there about a month ago.

46:32 And this shouldn't get into,

46:34 guys, find whatever music helps you bring you closer

46:37 to the Father as you listen.

46:39 And so if it's not Shane and Shane,

46:42 if it's not, I can't name any other bands

46:44 'cause I literally don't pay attention to that thing,

46:46 but for me, it's O sleeper and living sacrifice

46:49 and convictions and impending doom and holy name

46:51 and for today and these bands to where it's like,

46:54 they start the song out with,

46:55 let my name be feared at the gates of hell

46:57 as I exalt the Savior.

46:59 And it's like, (grunts)

47:00 like everyone just kind of freaks out

47:02 and like you find God in that moment

47:04 that we're not on the floor in a puddle

47:06 and we're not in tears and we're not holding hands,

47:08 but find whatever that means for you.

47:11 It doesn't matter where I will say a lot of guys

47:14 get maybe skeptical is they understand cognitively

47:19 that there's a little bit of emotional manipulation

47:22 happening when they're listening to certain worship sets.

47:26 Because again, I don't know anything about music

47:27 but where it's like, you know, chorus, chorus, chorus,

47:29 bridge, bridge again, chorus.

47:31 And then we're gonna do the bridge

47:32 and then we're gonna do the chorus

47:33 and then we're gonna do the chorus

47:33 but with a key change.

47:34 And then we're gonna do the bridge

47:35 chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus.

47:37 And it's like, you know, 47 minutes later,

47:39 we're still singing oceans.

47:40 And it's like, okay, I guess now I'll raise my hands

47:43 'cause maybe he'll stop this song

47:44 and go to the next one.

47:46 And so it's like, but again, I know you guys

47:48 sing those songs and when I've been at your shows,

47:50 it's like, I get kind of wrapped up

47:52 but it's the emotionalism that I think drives people nuts

47:55 especially if you're more conservative,

47:57 maybe you're more basic, you just wanna sing hymns

48:01 and then you hear these songs that have these,

48:03 you know, they're trying to get you to elicit some emotion

48:06 and to make some uncomfortable.

48:07 Talk to me a little bit about that

48:08 because that's where I think a lot of guys

48:10 in my audience, again, to be fair,

48:12 maybe they're not as in tune with their emotions

48:13 as they certainly should be.

48:15 But they feel like, you know what?

48:16 They're trying to emotionally manipulate me right now.

48:17 I think I'm just gonna stick my hands in my pocket

48:19 and stare at them.

48:21 - Yeah, I think making, but in Jesus at the center,

48:24 it's like you said a minute ago, you know,

48:27 we still have a moment in every concert we play

48:29 where I unpack Psalm 46 to your line and lamb point.

48:33 And I just tell the story of King Hezekiah,

48:38 the nation of Judah and the Assyria was coming to get him

48:41 and they go to God in prayer.

48:43 This is the most terrifying army that mankind has ever known

48:45 about hundreds of thousands of horrible men, strong men

48:50 and an angel shows up.

48:53 The angel of the Lord shows up,

48:56 wipes out 185,000 of them, probably on the spot.

49:01 - Yeah.

49:02 - The incarnate Christ.

49:06 - Right, which is easy to miss, the easy to miss

49:09 if you're reading through there.

49:11 - And He took them out and they go out there

49:14 and they sing Psalm the song of trouble

49:16 for the first time, hey, come behold the wonderful works

49:18 of God, He makes desolations of nations.

49:22 He makes war cease to the ends of the earth.

49:25 He breaks the bow, bends the spear, burns the cherries

49:28 with fire, hey, be still and know that I'm God.

49:31 And then He shows up in a manger.

49:33 That's the next time He shows up.

49:36 - Yeah, as a man.

49:38 - And that's how we actually do the exact same thing

49:41 that you said you do every time we play.

49:44 We go, hey, this is where He showed up

49:48 and He's coming back again like that.

49:50 But the very next time He shows up, He shows up

49:53 with flesh on as a baby to actually sacrifice Himself

49:58 for your crap.

50:00 That's why He came to win the war on sin and death.

50:05 And He did, He beat it on the cross, rose out of the grave.

50:10 And so I love the thought about that.

50:15 I mean, that's how we lead out of the gate

50:19 when we come out, when we come out on the show,

50:21 we come out that way versus the opposite way

50:25 of like, let's sing about the Lamb of God.

50:30 'Cause I think you're right.

50:31 I think there's something about Jesus

50:35 that we just need to know that He's the most incredible,

50:40 most powerful, most virtuous, righteous butt kicker

50:48 that's ever lived and that we'll ever live.

50:52 And once we see Him like that, we're like,

50:54 that same guy showed up in a manger?

50:58 - Yeah. - Yes, yes.

50:59 What was your question?

51:03 I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question.

51:04 That's usually it's shamed.

51:06 - That was actually very helpful

51:08 'cause I was basically asking about

51:09 emotional manipulation and worship.

51:12 And you basically, you talked about it there

51:14 because a lot of bands, if they get their four song set

51:17 before the preacher comes out and does their TED Talk

51:19 where they sprinkle a couple of Bible verses on top

51:21 so they can keep their tax exempt status,

51:23 they will do the upbeat song where there's 47 people

51:26 on stage and only five of their mics are turned on

51:28 and oh, it's jumpy, jumpy, jumpy.

51:30 And then usually the second or third song is the,

51:32 all right, we're gonna slow it down

51:33 and we're gonna bring the mood down

51:34 and we're gonna bring the fog up.

51:36 And then it's just like, okay, I get what you're trying to do.

51:39 It's like, you don't have to do anything extra

51:41 for the spirit of the Lord to show up.

51:42 Do you realize that?

51:43 Like, you don't have to go above and beyond.

51:46 Do it as unto the Lord, play your base,

51:48 play your keys as unto the Lord

51:50 and just let the spirit move.

51:52 It's kind of where I sit there.

51:53 But I guess something that kind of plays into all this

51:56 is talking about Jesus rightly in the songs,

52:00 talking about God rightly

52:01 because when you sing a song

52:03 that seems like it can be named from an album

52:05 called Boyfriend Jesus.

52:07 It's like Jesus is not your home boy, okay?

52:10 He's not this cute little guy.

52:12 This somehow white, blue-eyed, blonde-haired,

52:17 Danish-looking dude

52:18 that you can just roll up into your pocket

52:20 and stick into your shirt pocket

52:21 and pull them out whenever you need a kiss

52:22 on the tip of your nose.

52:23 It's like, this is the line of Judah.

52:25 You can't fully understand the land

52:27 without understanding the line.

52:28 You can't fully understand Bernard to your point earlier.

52:31 These depraved men that have done these depraved things,

52:33 they understand grace more than anybody

52:36 because it wasn't like they cussed when they were a kid

52:38 and that was it.

52:39 It's like they've shed the innocent blood of image bearers

52:42 of God, they understand it more.

52:45 And I guess that's where we get into this whole discussion

52:48 about Christian music, guys,

52:49 is because I think it's shocking for a lot of people

52:52 watching a lot of these Christian worship leaders

52:54 deconstruct all of a sudden

52:55 or maybe they were the guitarist in the Hillsong

52:57 and they fake having cancer

52:59 and then it's like all these people are like,

53:00 how could they possibly do that?

53:01 And I think people don't realize that all the music

53:04 that's happening on any type of music,

53:07 but in the Christian music sphere,

53:09 people just assume that everybody in that band's a Christian,

53:12 you know, the big worship band that comes up

53:13 and does, you know, a set for their church,

53:15 they assume everyone on stage is a Christian

53:17 and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

53:19 It's like some of those people are session musicians,

53:21 they're just getting paid to play music

53:22 and the lead guy probably is a Christian,

53:24 but I think that kind of leads again

53:26 to this skepticism of Christian music to where it's like,

53:30 do these people even believe this stuff

53:32 that they're singing about or are they just getting a paycheck?

53:36 - Yeah, I think there is all kinds of that on one hand

53:41 when you're talking to a certain kind of church,

53:43 which that's actually the kind of church

53:45 that we go around and play concerts in.

53:47 I think it's that kind of size of venue in church.

53:52 I think we're learning that most of the church consists

53:56 of what we referred to earlier.

53:59 Like, man, I'm a fireman

54:03 and I kind of played the bass in a garage band

54:05 when I was in high school.

54:07 And I'm gonna go and serve on the worship band

54:11 'cause they just need, you know,

54:13 there's 173 people showing up on Sunday morning.

54:17 I think that's probably the most of the church.

54:20 And so like we have bands come up to us

54:25 when we play concerts and they came up

54:27 and they're like, we didn't have music when we gathered

54:31 and then we, because of the worship initiative,

54:34 we have music.

54:35 There's the guitar player.

54:37 Here's the bass player.

54:38 Here's the keys player.

54:39 And we have experienced God in a way

54:42 that has blew our mind.

54:45 And so I think there is a kind of church

54:47 you're talking about, sort of like your mega church

54:50 or medium church that, yeah, they go to conferences

54:54 and they're trying to replicate, you know,

54:55 they're the ones going to big conference

54:57 and they're trying to replicate or the Grammys or whatever.

54:59 They're just trying to replicate whatever they see

55:03 and do.

55:06 They're replicating the songs that are popular

55:09 and that, you know, that people are listening to you

55:11 out there, they want to do them like that.

55:12 And I think there's conversations there that, okay,

55:18 what can we learn from that?

55:20 That is unhelpful and distracting

55:23 and what can we learn?

55:24 Is there something to be learned that we can grow in Jesus?

55:27 So they're doing things well.

55:29 And I think there could be a podcast about each of those.

55:32 Yeah. Sure.

55:34 And I think there's always going to be,

55:36 and I think there probably, historically,

55:38 there's always been that.

55:40 And we're living in an iteration of that.

55:42 You know, it could have been my grandfather's church

55:45 who they sang hymns, you know, with a lot of vibrata

55:50 and, you know, like, we're at home

55:54 and they were, you know, beating their wives.

55:56 You know what I'm saying?

55:57 It's like, I think we're all living, you know,

56:02 in a world that's wearing out by like a garment

56:07 and we're all people who have the ability

56:12 to be the worst or the best versions at any given time

56:17 without depending upon the power that the spirit of God,

56:24 the indwelling power of God that dwells

56:28 in the hearts of believers without depending upon that,

56:33 without understanding, like we can do nothing

56:37 without the strength that comes from that power.

56:42 I think we're all susceptible to one believing

56:46 that what we have to say is more important

56:50 than the word of God.

56:52 I think we're all susceptible to the applause of men.

56:57 I think we warn everybody who speaks on a microphone

57:00 or on a stage that's three or four feet higher

57:02 than somebody else in a crowd.

57:05 I mean, that's a big responsibility

57:06 and it's just like you see that with leaders

57:09 and you see leaders fall.

57:11 You see things that are contrary to what people say

57:16 and it's just like, man, we'll all raise our hands

57:18 and be like, dude, I'm a hypocrite

57:20 just like everybody else.

57:21 But by the spirit of God's, you know,

57:24 staying work in my life, lest I be one of those guys,

57:29 you know, it's just like, man, I wanna make it.

57:32 I wanna make it to the end

57:33 and I wanna depend upon him to get me there, you know?

57:36 And it's just like, I pray that as a church

57:40 and as bodies of believers, you know,

57:44 whether you're a construction worker or a worship pastor,

57:49 it's just like, man, we need to depend on each other.

57:51 We need to build each other up.

57:52 We need to hold each other like to the standard

57:55 that the Lord has held us to for our joy's sake

58:00 and for the health of the body, you know?

58:02 And so like, it's like, man, you know,

58:05 we wanna be careful to judge unless we be judged.

58:09 You know what I mean?

58:09 But in that, I think we can use the, you know,

58:13 the smell test, I mean, Piper talks about that.

58:15 It's just like something smells wrong.

58:17 I don't know if it's wrong, you know?

58:19 And it's easy for us to get like, even in our world,

58:23 it can be easy for us to get not just judgey,

58:25 but it's just like, I knew that was coming.

58:27 Yeah, I smelt that on that guy

58:29 or I smelt that on that team, you know?

58:31 But it's just like, I pray that as believers,

58:34 as leaders, that would break our heart more than offend us,

58:38 you know?

58:39 And so I think we have to be careful as people who are leaders,

58:46 you know, whether that's you're a leader at a church

58:49 of 50 people or you're at a leader at Hillsong Church,

58:54 it's just like, man, man, you gotta walk with,

58:58 it is kinda like fear and trembling, you know?

59:00 It's just like, man, 'cause, man, you gotta,

59:03 you gotta, don't hold that word wrong, you know?

59:06 I mean, there's some, there's some to that, you know?

59:09 I mean, where's that scripture?

59:11 Where it's just like, man, as leaders,

59:13 man, we're called to a higher account, you know?

59:16 And it's just like, man, God cares about His kids.

59:19 A lot more than you do, you know?

59:21 And it's just like, man, so if I'm teaching a kid

59:23 or telling a kid or one of God's kids something,

59:27 man, we pray that it's true.

59:30 We don't wanna distract them,

59:32 we don't wanna cause them to stumble, you know?

59:35 'Cause He takes that pretty seriously, you know?

59:37 - Yep.

59:38 - And there's grace, but man, that's why we wanna,

59:40 like, appropriately carry the word of God.

59:42 - I have, I think my observation of the,

59:47 kind of what you're talking about in rooms

59:50 with subwoofers and smoke machines

59:53 and repetitive songs and, I mean,

59:58 we go to Watermark Community Church,

1:00:00 we probably have one of the best venues in the country.

1:00:03 So we have all of those things to be able to use.

1:00:09 I think they're kind of morally neutral, all things God created

1:00:14 as long as we can use them to, like, make Him look good

1:00:17 and not like somebody's belt buckle, like on a screen.

1:00:21 But I think the word that, over the years,

1:00:28 that I get more passionate about when you talk

1:00:31 about manipulation or what we're trying to accomplish

1:00:38 in a room, and the word is all surrounding the word presence.

1:00:43 And I'm about to walk into a room here in a minute

1:00:48 when we're done, and we have a record label,

1:00:50 we have artists on the record label,

1:00:52 and they're all writing records,

1:00:56 and this is what I'm gonna talk about as God's presence.

1:00:59 And I feel like there has been a little bit of, like,

1:01:04 cutting the knees out of the reality of the indwelling

1:01:09 Holy Spirit who never leaves us,

1:01:11 who will never leaves us,

1:01:12 who actually goes and do our cul-de-sacs with us.

1:01:15 And because I have four daughters and a wife

1:01:19 who actually know God that we have this,

1:01:23 there's, I mean, we're having, we set up a camp there

1:01:27 and we have neighbors, none of our neighbors know the Lord.

1:01:29 At this point, we're actually one of them

1:01:31 just as of a couple of weeks ago does.

1:01:34 And, but we have these rooms kind of calling down the presence.

1:01:39 Yet you come here to experience God's presence.

1:01:42 And I'm completely down with the omnipresence of God,

1:01:49 for sure, but not at the expense of the sacredness

1:01:59 of the indwelling Holy Spirit,

1:02:02 that when people walk into a room,

1:02:04 hey, 100% chance he's here, 100% chance.

1:02:08 I can tell you what's here.

1:02:10 And our songs are doing that.

1:02:13 And it's kind of like this, oh, it's very, very old testimony.

1:02:16 You get, you come here, you get filled, you go back out.

1:02:20 And then you come back here and there's something there

1:02:24 that actually was harmful for me

1:02:26 because it created a double life for me as an early believer.

1:02:31 'Cause this is where I come to do spiritual things

1:02:33 and then I go away, it's kind of like what Shane said

1:02:35 about the guys who leave the old hymns

1:02:38 and go beat their wives.

1:02:39 It's like, hey, it's okay.

1:02:40 This is what you do there.

1:02:42 This is what I do here.

1:02:42 This is what I do there.

1:02:43 This is what I do here.

1:02:44 That's just not Christianity.

1:02:48 It's a different thing.

1:02:50 And so that's a little bit more of my concern.

1:02:55 I think there's times I read through the,

1:02:58 the later Psalms, the 140 through 150 Psalms

1:03:03 and there's a ton of repetitiveness there.

1:03:06 And I think there could be a place for that.

1:03:11 I don't know if, obviously there's beings

1:03:16 that have always been saying, holy, holy, holy is the Lord

1:03:20 God Almighty who wasn't is and is to come,

1:03:22 holy, holy, holy is the Lord God.

1:03:23 There's something, there's something about, man,

1:03:27 there's one thing to say that I can't not say

1:03:30 at a million times and there might be room for that,

1:03:34 but not in the context of manipulation

1:03:39 and not in the context of like,

1:03:41 I'm trying to elicit a physical response from you.

1:03:46 I need the room to lift the hands before,

1:03:48 and that's the measure of success for me.

1:03:50 Like that's all trash.

1:03:53 I mean, this is all real, he's real, his spirit's real,

1:03:56 like he's coming and songs are helpful

1:04:00 and they're biblical and this, what we've always sang.

1:04:05 That's what we do, we sing to him.

1:04:08 We lift our voice to him because his love is better than life,

1:04:12 my lips will praise you and in the congregation

1:04:15 I will lift my hands to you because my soul will be satisfied

1:04:20 as with the richest of foods, like the best meal ever.

1:04:24 It's what we do, that's Psalm 63 and so,

1:04:29 but I do, I do really get bothered

1:04:33 when I'm in rooms like you're talking about

1:04:35 and I feel similar things that you're saying

1:04:40 and I think that we have a platform to walk with these folks.

1:04:45 That's, I mean, it's a big reason why we created

1:04:47 the worship initiative.

1:04:48 We did a songwriting class for college students

1:04:51 who are going, who were in ministry school,

1:04:53 worship leading ministry school and some of them got saved.

1:04:57 We're just going, we're singing through the bio,

1:04:58 I mean, they don't know, you're right.

1:05:00 I mean, even the leaders, like, yeah.

1:05:03 Man, they're just doing what, they're just doing,

1:05:06 they're, yeah, and I think it's cool.

1:05:08 Why wouldn't you, when they were going?

1:05:10 - Right, they were going through the emotions

1:05:12 and they're talented, they probably look good

1:05:13 and they're skinny jeans and all that

1:05:15 and then they realize along the way,

1:05:16 well, that's, I'm kind of being, you know, under,

1:05:19 like, undercutting these people.

1:05:20 There are people that will play the organ at the church

1:05:23 for decades and then all of a sudden realizes, you know,

1:05:25 oh, oh my gosh, like, I've never responded to the gospel.

1:05:27 Maybe I've never heard it.

1:05:29 And so that's why I encourage people.

1:05:30 It's like, don't just assume everyone around you

1:05:32 has been evangelized.

1:05:33 And don't assume that everyone around you

1:05:35 that has done a really good job of, you know,

1:05:38 not cussing in public and not dancing

1:05:40 and not beating their wives,

1:05:41 that somehow that they've heard the gospel

1:05:43 and that they put their faith in it.

1:05:44 And it's kind of like, as worship leaders,

1:05:46 you should be the springboard

1:05:48 to where people are gonna be discipled

1:05:51 and held accountable to where,

1:05:52 if you are in the crowd, holding your hands up

1:05:55 to praise the Lord and then turning around

1:05:57 and using those hands to hurt image bearers of Christ,

1:06:00 may you be held accountable for that,

1:06:01 but also may you be discipled

1:06:03 so that never even enters your mind ever again.

1:06:05 And I think that's very, very important.

1:06:07 We're a little bit over time.

1:06:08 So we'll make this last question of the day, guys.

1:06:10 I appreciate all the time you spent with us today.

1:06:12 But you guys have been doing this since the early 2000s.

1:06:14 Okay, so here we are in 2023.

1:06:16 You're still putting out records.

1:06:17 You're still doing stuff.

1:06:18 You're expanding with the worship initiative

1:06:20 and there's the whole business side behind that.

1:06:22 But how much longer can you guys reasonably do this?

1:06:26 And I guess this is recording new music,

1:06:28 going around and singing it to people.

1:06:30 You know, singing as high as you sing, you know,

1:06:32 like especially ever, like I just, it hurts.

1:06:34 Like I got ear damage over here and it's like,

1:06:36 God, it's so high, I can't get up there.

1:06:38 And you know, playing the guitar as fast as you can go.

1:06:40 Like how much longer can you do this?

1:06:43 Are you all going to be doing this in your 70s and 80s?

1:06:45 Who knows?

1:06:47 I don't know.

1:06:48 We can't believe we're still doing it, honestly.

1:06:50 (laughing)

1:06:51 Yeah.

1:06:52 Again, it's not, for us, it's never been a passion.

1:06:58 It's not something we like, you know, naturally,

1:07:03 oh, I have some free time.

1:07:04 Let me go sing high and strum fast.

1:07:07 I mean, it's just not, you know, it's like,

1:07:09 I set up, I got four daughters.

1:07:11 I set up a basketball goal and I can't get anybody

1:07:13 to play basketball with me and I'm bummed, you know?

1:07:16 They want us, they want us to play the piano

1:07:18 and sing and play the violin, you know?

1:07:21 And we're lawless and the pride and prejudice together.

1:07:23 And here we go, you know?

1:07:25 And so as long as God is giving us a doorway to make him famous

1:07:30 and make his name look great.

1:07:39 And, I mean, we want to see Jesus come back.

1:07:42 That's right.

1:07:42 Like we, Jesus is going to come back

1:07:45 when every tribe in tongue not just hears about him,

1:07:49 but worships him.

1:07:50 I mean, Piper, John Piper says, you know,

1:07:55 missions exist because worship doesn't.

1:07:57 And there's coming a day when every,

1:08:02 it's not just hearing about him.

1:08:03 There's going to be worshipers.

1:08:06 And, you know, that's not just music,

1:08:08 obviously worship is just everything we do as unto the Lord.

1:08:13 But man, if God can use us, especially the way technology

1:08:17 is moving to make Jesus look as he looks.

1:08:22 And people would see him as he is

1:08:26 and receive the free gift of God's love

1:08:29 through Jesus Christ, his son and the sacrifice he made

1:08:33 for them on the cross.

1:08:35 And man, by all means, if I'm 89 years old

1:08:38 and singing my face off and strumming,

1:08:41 maybe it'll, maybe I'll move over to the banjo

1:08:43 or the mandolin for your sake at that moment.

1:08:46 But like, man, praise God, if that's what he has,

1:08:50 then we'll show up.

1:08:53 - Yep.

1:08:54 I agree.

1:08:55 - Well, just to edify you guys a little bit again,

1:08:58 I don't guess I believe in coincidences anymore.

1:09:00 But the guy who literally introduced me to y'all's music

1:09:05 when I was in college, I won't name him here

1:09:06 and it'll make sense here in a second, why not?

1:09:08 The guy who introduced me to your music,

1:09:10 the guy who introduced me to typical CCM

1:09:13 contemporary Christian music this morning,

1:09:16 he's doing one of the most difficult things

1:09:18 that he's ever had to do as a man and as a father

1:09:21 because a predator took advantage of one of his children

1:09:26 and he and his wife are gonna be deposed in a court of law

1:09:29 to be a part of that proceeding, okay?

1:09:34 And I literally got this text as y'all were going through,

1:09:38 you know, one of your answers about 10 minutes ago

1:09:40 from this guy, he says, let me see what he says,

1:09:45 listen to Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs of volume one

1:09:48 to prepare for this.

1:09:49 And by this, he means what he's gonna be going through

1:09:52 this morning.

1:09:53 And so you guys have heard a million stories like that.

1:09:55 But I know it doesn't mean you don't wanna hear a million

1:09:58 in one, what you guys do is important for the kingdom

1:10:02 and that's big capital K kingdom.

1:10:05 But it's those individual people that are just trying

1:10:07 to follow the Lord on a day to day basis.

1:10:09 Your songs help them.

1:10:10 I sent y'all a message on Twitter like 10 or 15 years ago

1:10:14 or maybe not quite that long ago, but it was like,

1:10:16 when I listened to Psalms too,

1:10:18 it makes me want to get into the word more.

1:10:20 And I think y'all are going back to what we talked about

1:10:23 at the beginning about how you're wanting to make music

1:10:26 that is biblically based, lyrically rich

1:10:28 and sonically engaging, you're doing that

1:10:30 and you're pointing people towards the father,

1:10:32 which is what I try to do when I speak live,

1:10:34 which is what I try to do when I speak here on this podcast,

1:10:37 is if you're looking at me, hopefully I'm reflecting you

1:10:40 back and for reflecting your attention onto the father.

1:10:42 So I really, really appreciate everything that you guys

1:10:45 have done, but I did want to end with that edification.

1:10:47 And Joby Martin texts me out of the blue and he said,

1:10:49 hey, you know, Shane, 'cause he knew I was talking to you guys

1:10:51 this morning, he's like, hey, those guys are the real deal.

1:10:53 So if you wanted him to talk trash behind your back,

1:10:55 I'm sorry, you're just not gonna get that.

1:10:57 But that is all for me.

1:10:58 Is there anything else you guys want to get off your chest?

1:11:01 - Oh, man, no, we love what you do, Kyle.

1:11:04 We love that you have a lion right there

1:11:08 backing you up, back behind your on your wall.

1:11:11 And I love that there are a lot of,

1:11:16 it's you have such a unique role in the body of Christ

1:11:19 that you are ministering to people

1:11:23 with really, my dad was kind of like a John Wayne

1:11:27 kind of feller and he got married in his mid 30s

1:11:31 and he was literally a goldmine and army cowboy kind of.

1:11:35 So I grew up with a rough dad with a very hard heart

1:11:40 and I had a very hard heart and you are ministering

1:11:44 to my family 'cause it was my dad, my brother,

1:11:48 and I, and I, and the thought that there is

1:11:53 a bunch of Dave Bernard's listening to this right now

1:11:56 and on a weekly basis, it just makes my,

1:11:59 it just makes my day.

1:12:00 So I just love what you do.

1:12:02 And I know it takes a lot of work and thank you

1:12:06 and thanks for having us on.

1:12:08 - Absolutely, Shane.

1:12:10 Shane, Shane, thank you for coming on

1:12:11 on Don't the Life of Man's podcast.

1:12:13 - Come on.

1:12:14 - And hey, one more thing.

1:12:15 - Hit it.

1:12:16 - We're headed to Israel next week.

1:12:18 Psalms three in Israel 2024.

1:12:21 FYI, spoiler alert.

1:12:24 - What you're not playing with me, are you?

1:12:26 I didn't know anything about that.

1:12:27 You're springing it on me

1:12:28 at the very end of my interview here.

1:12:29 - Nobody does.

1:12:30 Nobody does.

1:12:31 Nobody knows about that.

1:12:32 - It's so far away.

1:12:32 Nobody knows about that.

1:12:33 - But I'm still recording.

1:12:34 So a lot of people are about to know about it.

1:12:36 Like, what are you talking about?

1:12:37 Like, did y'all just let the cat out of the bag

1:12:39 go on my show?

1:12:40 - I think he did.

1:12:41 - I think I did.

1:12:42 Yeah, that just happened.

1:12:43 That just happened.

1:12:44 Psalms three.

1:12:45 - I made you, I made you drop this a little earlier.

1:12:47 Psalms three, say it again.

1:12:48 I wanna hear it again.

1:12:49 Psalms three, when's it happening?

1:12:51 - To 2024, at some point, we don't know the exact date,

1:12:54 but it's happening.

1:12:55 - Psalms three, we're good chance we're gonna record it

1:12:59 and we're gonna take folks over to the Holy Land

1:13:03 and record it there where they were sung

1:13:05 for the first time.

1:13:09 - Well, I accept your invitation

1:13:11 that you obviously gave to me to go over there with you guys.

1:13:15 Thank you guys very, very much.

1:13:16 But man, it's been an absolute pleasure.

1:13:18 - Thank you. - Thank you.

1:13:19 - See you, Kyle.

1:13:20 There you go, guys.

1:13:21 I hope you enjoyed my time with Shane and Shane,

1:13:23 but before I let you go,

1:13:24 we are gonna do a quick resilience boost.

1:13:25 Adam Daunton Life, our mission is equipping

1:13:27 men to push back darkness with content

1:13:28 that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.

1:13:31 So the two links I've got for you today,

1:13:32 I've got a link to their website,

1:13:33 which will get you to do their socials

1:13:35 and all their other different music things.

1:13:36 And I've also got a link to the worship initiative,

1:13:38 which we talked about towards the beginning

1:13:40 of the interview.

1:13:41 And guys, anywhere you get your music,

1:13:43 Apple Music, Spotify, if you actually still buy vinyl

1:13:46 or actual physical CDs, go out there

1:13:48 and buy some Shane and Shane, support those guys again.

1:13:51 Buy their latest stuff, buy their old stuff,

1:13:53 do what you can to support 'em.

1:13:54 Show out, guys.

1:13:55 Thank you guys for listening to this episode.

1:13:57 Wherever you're listening to this,

1:13:58 please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star

1:14:00 of you.

1:14:01 If you want to come speak live at your event

1:14:02 or on your podcast, you shoot me an email

1:14:04 to info@andaunton.life.

1:14:06 That's I-N-F-O @andaunton.life.

1:14:09 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook

1:14:10 and check out our website for everything else,

1:14:12 including how to donate to keep more content

1:14:13 like this coming your way.

1:14:14 Just go to www.andaunton.life.

1:14:17 And as always, we want to thank the band,

1:14:18 August Burns Red, for allowing us to use their music

1:14:21 for our content.

1:14:21 The music on this podcast is our song,

1:14:23 "Cutting the Tides," which is off their 10th anniversary

1:14:25 re-recording of their album Leveler.

1:14:27 The links are in the description.

1:14:29 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.

1:14:31 Remember, keep pushing back darkness,

1:14:34 keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience,

1:14:37 keep seeking the lion of Judah.

1:14:43 ♪ I love thy land, and I have died ♪

1:14:47 ♪ Where all you want is a sign ♪

1:14:50 ♪ You may stand as a virtue ♪

1:14:55 ♪ You will be reduced ♪