Let's be honest, most men drift. We wake up, we scroll, we work, and then we just rinse and repeat. And we know we're softer than we should be. That's why I built the 31-day resilience reset. This is not a devotional. It is a field manual for men ready to stop drifting and start fighting back. So, for 31 days, you'll train your spirit, mind, and body with scripture, prayer, and daily challenges that forge real resilience. Go to www.undaunted.life/31. life/31days to download this resource for free. That's undaunted.life/31day. Start your reset today. Hey guys, real quick. I just wanted to remind you that we have an official Undaunted Life store. You can go to shop.undaunted.life or check it out in the show notes. Guys, we're always going to have hats and shirts and a bunch of other awesome stuff. Go there, support us, wear the mission. Again, it's shop.undaunted.life. Check out the link in the show notes. Shop.undaed.life. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. >> Hey, welcome back. This is night two saturated. This is our co- episode, Deepen and Undaunted Life. I'm Jonathan Vick. That's Kyle Thompson. Thank you so much, Jenny, for tonight. >> The Jenny Allen. >> The Jenny Allen is with us. Uh, kick us off K. >> I feel like you might be holding back on me with no cigars because I'm a girl. >> I know. >> Here. I may have had one with last night's guest right before I walked into here. >> I knew it. >> I changed my shirt out cuz I didn't want anyone to notice. And then you mentioned it right from the jump. >> I mean, there is a huge astray right here. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, I asked for the filtration system to be installed, but apparently we don't have anyone in the back that can like have any fun for anybody. But um one of my favorite things about speakers is I like if you can drop one sentence that will just wreck the person's next week of their life because they just can't get the thought out of their brain. >> Okay. >> People try to manufacture that. >> And I mean you're around college kids and kids all the time like you can just smell it on somebody when they're trying too hard, right? It's just like it's it's just >> But you dropped a bomb on people tonight and the line was we want revival without the cost. >> Mhm. I don't know if that's an offshoot of the amount of time you've spent with this younger generation that they they want to be an influencer, but they don't want to create content. They want to be in shape, but they don't want to go to the gym. They want this, but they won't do anything to do it. And just this week going from church leader summit tonight, one of saturated to twice you presenting what you presented tonight. Why that one thing? Like why why is is that because for me that was the hinge point of your talk. >> Why that quote? You know, I go in a lot of rooms and some of them break open with the spirit and some of them don't. And the difference is desperation. And if you're willing to say you don't have it and you need God, and most people won't do that, and especially older people won't do that. College students do it real easily. When I go in prisons, inmates do it real easily. This is the craziest night I've seen all generations do it the way they just did in this church tonight. Yelling out their sin like that. That was that was wild. Just people care about their reputations. It It's easier to be cynical. It's easier to um to water it down, to say something safe. It's just it's just and and we're all pretending because the things that were said tonight were so heavy. They were so hard. Had you in tears, Joby. And I mean it was overwhelming to hear it all >> and that's going on in the room and people aren't saying it. And so the cost is will you will you say what's really going on. We say the truth because that's what confession is. It's to say what's true. So whether it's sin or weight, people don't say it. >> You dropped another bomb and it was shame is worse than sin. Correct me if I'm wrong. Shame is the devil's game. >> Your sin's forgiven. >> Yeah. But shame is what keeps >> for the Christian. Yeah. Their sins forgiven, but shame is the the lullaby played over their lives that doesn't seem to end. >> That's what people are afraid of. >> Well, so I'm wondering for you, >> you know, I've heard different variations of this. Joby said it. >> It's like what a lot of people lack is lack, right? So, we live in this this era where you just pull, you know, you pull your phone out and dinner shows up at your door. >> You know, the algorithm is built for you. So, you don't have to search for a show, it finds you, right? You don't have to search for a podcast. to find you. And so I'm just I'm curious for you where what you see manifesting because of that desperation because correct me if I'm wrong, Toby, but I would assume one of the reasons why you were so caught up with what happened tonight is because this is your flock. >> Yeah. >> And these words are being streamed out for you. >> Yeah. By your flock. And it's like you're shephering these people. You have an entire, you know, infrastructure to care for these people. And then when you hear the sin, you know it's there. You know the the suicidality is there, the the adultery is there, the substance abuse is there, the physical and sexual abuse is there. But then when you hear it yelled out, it just it's got to be something else. >> And then you didn't even invite people down front. They just started pointing me down front. >> Yeah. All I can think about, I said it in my clothes, but all I can think about is Jesus looking over Jerusalem and his heart's breaking. >> I know. >> But the difference is he was like, if you would just come, they came, man. >> They came. >> And all I can think is like, Lord, what I mean, I know I know the answer theologically is like, what in the world can we do? >> There was lament. >> No doubt. I mean, wailing, >> wailing, >> wailing. I was ugly crying, dude. It was it was I mean again it's unlike anything I've seen and I've seen some things. >> Thank you. Thank you for being faithful. >> Thanks for letting me. Thanks for trusting me. I >> mean again you're you're you're the Jenny Allen. You could if you wanted to, man, you could just cash it in right now. >> Yeah. >> You could just you I know. I know you could. Like I'm just telling you the average >> Yeah. >> Like you made it. You're here. You did it. You did the thing. You're the number one requested >> preacher anywhere you want to go. >> You could do some, you know, three steps to a better you things and Yeah. >> And always get invited back cuz that's the danger, too, man. >> Well, yeah. >> You did that at some churches. >> Oh, for sure. >> Well, >> well, I've got to honor where I am. Somebody said out loud. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, it's brave. Yeah. you you you blessed me by saying I want you to bring what you do and and I I want to honor any event I'm in, but you you allowed me to lead your people in that way. And um yeah, thank you. And and I I'm I mean, it's not a joke like I'm ruined. I'm I'm burning. I think God has allowed me a lot of success to where I realize, oh, that doesn't feel like I thought it would. And so it's like after you know, you know, whatever the goal is, you get it and you're like, "Oh, well that that wasn't it." All that's over. And now it's like I really believe and he's put in me the urgency that we've got to spend everything we've got so that every person that can be saved can be saved. And I'm just not confused. >> Not crazy. You know what you don't know is that in October we begin a 2-year disciplehip journey in our church called Neighbors to Nations. >> I love that >> that we take the gospel from every neighborhood to every nation in this world. >> I love that. >> I mean, you just that was like the the locker room talk for our team. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's your neighbor and it's the ends of the earth. It's both. >> It is. It's really I mean the great commission the Greek is like as you're on the go or wherever wherever you go make disciples of all nations. >> Another thing that was super clear I mean Luke 15 you know what church person doesn't know Luke 15 >> and then the way that you tied it to Romans 8 though >> you said there's not 100 ways to live >> there's two >> there's two ways to live >> you can walk by the >> 37 week series on Romans. I didn't say that. I mean, I was all like digging into the nuance of it. Dude, that was so brilliant. >> Well, it's simple. Yeah. >> I'll never forget it. I'll never see that verse the same again. >> Yeah. >> And that shame thing that you mentioned. Listen, this is something uh what's his first name? Winnings. The guy that runs Promise Keepers Now was on another podcast that I do uh called Bill for more. And he shared somebody had just shared with him, man, at the end of Romans 8. Here's all the things that can't separate you, right? And it says, >> "Nor things present nor things to come." so comforting. >> But it doesn't say the past >> cuz if you get bogged down in your past, you can allow your past to separate you. It doesn't actually from this day forward >> or like my man. >> So many people are living like that, >> right? Dude, that's shame. You know, it's so interesting because I'm thinking of all the people listening, especially all the men listening, and I've I've gotten to minister to a lot of men in the last few years, and it's wild because I I mean, in my experience, they're more tender than the women. I'm not kidding. Like, I have more men come up to me crying than women. And >> and I think there's and you see that in the numbers of people going back to church and Gen Z and young men. But when I when I think about men and they're and I think there's a desperation in them, they know they're stuck in addiction. They know that they're stuck with addiction to porn or whatever it is, sex, addiction, and and they're they're so they are desperate in that and they know it has enslaved them like it moved to at some point to enslavement. And what I see in them is I want to be free. And so they shame themselves and beat themselves up to try to be free >> when it's actually like the call of God is to lift our head and to set us on purpose and on mission. And those are the guys that are wildly free because their eyes are going back and forth to the mission and the purpose of God and they're not. And I that's why I love Hebrews 12 so much because it's run the race that's set before you and I believe it's all simultaneous and you're throwing off the sin and the weight at the same time, right? It's like you're running and because you're on mission because you have a purpose bigger than yourself, you don't want to be on your phone, you don't want to be addicted to anything and you're throwing it off. And so I think we think shame is our punisher and it'll help us be holy, but it isn't. It's actually dehabilitating and >> and put you in more bondage and you never get free. >> Hey guys, real quick. So pretty much everywhere you look right now, all anyone in the fitness and wellness world wants to talk about is peptides. And in the last few years, the demand and the market for peptides has gone through the roof. And here's the thing, most people don't really know anything about peptides. They just know that a lot of people they know are on them and are having great results. And here are a few reality checks as it pertains to peptides. One, you need to know what they are and how they can help you. Two, not all peptides and peptide companies are reliable and safe. And third, you need a reputable company that will educate you and help you find the peptides that are right for you. And that's why I want to introduce you to a new partnership that we have with Victrix Wellness. 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Want to see how certain peptides can help you with sleep, cognitive performance, immune support, sexual health, longevity, and other things? Victrix can help with that, too. And guys, right now, all Undaunted Lifers listening to this can go to www.victtrixwwellness.com/kyle to get a free consultation with one of Victrix's wellness coaches. That's vi iixwwellness.com/kyle. The link will be in the show notes. Guys, stop listening to random people on social media that don't know what they're talking about. Let my friends at victrixwellness guide you. Again, go to victrixwwellness.com/kyle. That's victwwellness.com/kyle. >> All sometimes what shame is is because you don't believe the gospel. It is >> because you look at Jesus on the cross and you and I don't mean like >> theologically speaking essentially what you do is you look at Christ on the cross say it is finished and you're like almost >> but you didn't quite get enough of it so I got to punish me too. >> Well it's like that woman that came up to you tonight and she what she she the line was so powerful. >> She's balling dude. She says what if you're too far gone? >> It's like it applies to everybody but her. >> Now here's what I know. I've been doing this a long dang time. I'm I I started I've been on staff at church. I started when I was 19. I'm 53. >> I've had a million conversations and 100% of the time when somebody says, "I this can't be forgiven." It's always sexual sin, it always is, man. >> And sin against your own body. >> This Exactly. I mean, Paul says it 1 Corinthians 6, right? And so, >> and so I encourage her a little bit. I say, she's just like, "I'm just not feeling it." I said, "You're feeling something. You're crying your face off. I am. So, you feeling something? Hold on. But listen, man. Feels follow the truth. Okay. So, right now, you're believing a lie. And so, over time, maybe not overnight, >> I'm just trying to calm her down a little bit. And I also know there's a there's a level of honesty she needs to have with an older >> female. There's a lot there >> cuz she's got to say it. >> She needs to say it. And I'm not necessarily if I was the only option, no problem. But I grab Ally, who is also the best. Well, she's special. >> She's Yeah. >> Yeah. >> She She grew up at my youth group. >> You have a lot of those running around. >> Bro, we got more than a dozen of my students on our staff. >> Shut up. >> And so I'm like, "Come here, Ally. This is your new best friend." >> Yeah. >> So afterwards, I check. I go, "It was sexual, right?" She goes, "Oh, yeah. There was abuse, >> unwanted child. There's I mean, and then now it's playing out in all the all the ways you would imagine." And so they have children the same age. this 20-year-old girl in Ally and Ally's like happily married and all the things. She goes, "Great. Our kids are the same age. Just start coming over and we'll do playdates together." >> That's what followup on a night like tonight looks like. >> Yes. And you have the people to do it. >> Yeah, we do. We've had an army. >> Well, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight because of all these connections that are happening because of this. But, and the reason why this was so poignant for me is because Yeah. Every Christian Christian knows Luke 15. We know the parable of the prodical son. But you said they, you know, these young men are beating themselves up to be free. That's the older brother. >> Yeah. >> Now, one of our pastors at my church did a sermon on Luke 15. I was like, "All right, brain off. I know what this is all about." >> And for the first, this is like two years ago. >> For the first time ever, I saw that the older brother was lost cuz the ever cuz I didn't grow up in church. I didn't get all the, you know, cute stories and all the type of things. >> And I just was like, I was like, "Yeah, he should die with those pigs." And, you know, I was like, >> that's what we would decide. >> Yeah. I was rooting for the older brother because my way of dealing with shame is self flagagillation, right? Like you don't want to hear my internal dialogue. You flat out don't want to do it. It'll haunt the rest of your life. >> And so and just earlier you said lament. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And then we turn it around. The moment you were announced as speaker, I was like, I know what my first question is. It's going to end up being my second question. But we've never had sociologically speaking, we've never had a cohort of people studied in this country where the females were more progressive, more liberal, >> and the males were more conservative, more religious. And beyond that, there was some study done where they looked at the top 13 things that are important to the next generation. Getting married and having a family were number one and number two for Gen Z males. >> They were the bottom two. Bottom two for Gen Z females. >> Not surprised. >> It was do me. It was being financially independent. It was getting that job, starting that business, doing that thing. Basically, what the four waves of feminism have have taught them to do. >> Wow. >> And it's it's like bizarro upside down world. And imagine trying to talk to a 18-year-old, a 20-year-old, a 28-year-old that just wants to be married to a godly woman and to love her like Christ loved the church and raise up their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord and then they look around and it's like that girl doesn't exist anymore. >> Okay, that's not true. I know a lot of them. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna push back on some things and say this >> here, please. >> That while that is there is definitely that movement in women. I'm gonna I'm gonna actually call out the church on something that we have not treated each other like co- lababorers and brothers and sisters and I am conservative on my theology of male elders and that kind I'm not I'm not getting into all that. I'm not going to get into like what women can and can't do in the church. What I will say is we have not been brothers and sisters to each other. And because of that there has been a I have to fight for my rights. I have to there's been a backlash. And so what I think the church can do better and I think what I see in my life, Joby, as my friend um who asks me to come speak here and and collabor with me for the gospel is that I've experienced the best of the church. I've experienced so many brothers that treat me >> with respect and honor and and co-abor beside me and we are truly brothers and sisters without some awkward exchange. like we just are in the same game together and playing as our guts out all of us. >> And I think because of pornography, because of the sexualization of women, because of feeling used and manipulated and pushed down, I do think there has been a lot of reaction to that. I see things as core issues like what's the thing behind the thing, right? Because honestly, women I know, so many of the women I know, let me think about my daughters, they are wildly strong. My husband and I both are alphas that made alphas. Like we just our kids are wildly strong. Our girls are are strong, strong, strong. And yet I watched one of them just get married and she is loves being taken care of. She with all her strength, but she has a man who esteems her, who wants her to use her gifts, who believes in her, who who doesn't um try to control her, who doesn't um use her, you know? And so, I'm just saying like there's a way that it's supposed to be and it takes both of us, right? It's it's I don't think it's like this is broken and this isn't. I'm like, we all have caused this brokenness and so much of it has been done to us because of the sexualization that we all grew up in that we don't even know the difference. Like, we breathe. It's just the air we breathe. And so people have become objects, especially women to men. And and so I want to I'm not even blaming men because I I there's we don't war against flesh and blood. I'm saying there is an enemy that has a game that he is playing and is effective and it is yes, there are there's a lot of hurting women. And the way that has expressed itself oftentimes has been I don't need you. I can do this by myself. I can do anything. And it's a reaction to something. So, I you know, I'm just the person that's like, "Let's look at what we're reacting to and let's all work on it together because we need each other and the gospel needs men and women to be friends and to collabor." But I do I I know what you're saying and I'm not I'm not arguing you. I know the numbers. I've seen the stats and it's real. Men are coming to Jesus right now in droves and women are leaving the church. It's >> I will tell you this. 11:22 is flooded with godly young single women. Yes, I've met them. They're amazing. >> Your boy John Eldridge, I know he's been a huge influ like you know him personally. Yeah, I've read his stuff and love it. >> But oh gosh, but he like he like hangs out with him. Um dude, he described it best in Wild at Heart, which is like the the the manliest man book ever, right? Yep. >> Maybe number two behind one other one, but >> can't think of any others. >> I can't either. So, uh, but he talks about every man's got a battle to fight, a woman to love, >> and an adventure to live. But when he talks about the adventure to live, and the woman to love, he says like she's not the prize that you bring her into the adventure as a co- labor. I mean, >> co- labor. >> This is this is >> Adam and Eve. This is God's intention. And you're right. Even the boss babe, strongwilled whatever >> women, >> me, >> here's the thing, right? I've got a man when but when a man well first of all when a woman is submitted to Christ >> Yeah. >> and then she meets her guy who is submitted to Christ and then he leads and loves well then the femininity that God gave her as an image of who he is begins to flourish in the kind of environment >> where she's provided for and protected and then they go to war together. It's so beautiful. That's how it's supposed to go. And you put I mean, I'm just tell from my life story. You put me in front of 2,000 pastors, I'll boss them to death. Like, I'll tell them like, "This is what you're sinning. This is what you need to know. This is how you need." I'll I'll do that. >> And I get with my husband and I'm like, "Take care of me." >> Like, it's easy for me to do that because he does take care of me. And and his he is the man who tonight was cry. I come down and see him, he's balling. And and there's this there's a tenderness in him to say, I want you to use your gifts even if you get more glory than me on earth because I'm accountable to God. Yeah. >> And so I've got such a safe man that it is easy to submit to him. I have been blessed with godly elders and a godly husband that submission has gone well for me. That is not true for all the women. >> Oh yeah. >> And make sure if if you're going to believe in submission, make sure that word goes well for the women in your life. I have done more than I would have ever done on my own because he has pushed me out the door and said, "You got to do that. That is obedience and you're going to do that thing." He has not held me back and said, "Sorry, you got to do the dishes tonight." He has been like, "You go obey God and do that and I'll obey God and take the kids wherever I need to take them." And by the way, he is a very successful entrepreneur and has his own stuff. I'm not acting like he's a stay-at-home dad because he's not. But we have managed to co- labor in all the areas of our life, serving each other, serving our kids, and it is fun. Here's part of fun adventure. >> Here's part of your success, too. >> I've never heard you fight for a title. >> Yeah. >> Well, that would be a silly game. >> There's a lot of girls out there. It's like, I got to have a title. But what begins to happen then? Then you get off the mission. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you you see what I'm saying? Cuz what you're doing is is you like you're fighting for the applause of man instead of being obedient to what Christ has called you to do. Yeah. >> Listen, Jenny. This is why the hand of God is on you. >> I had to decide early. I go to a church that I've never preached at, not on a Sunday morning. >> Um, I had to decide early like how am I gonna walk this thing? You know, I I'm a leader. A lot of women look to me >> a lot. >> And I just was like, I just don't see in scripture that you have rights that you fight for. >> Amen. >> I I feel like my way was going to be put my head down >> and be obedient. And and I have been in rooms I mean tonight like I serving your people. I've been in rooms I could never have imagined or fought my way to get into >> and and God has opened those doors. And so I just I've had enough to be obedient >> wherever I am. And I don't there's a there's a peace in that of just assignment. You know, I and I'm more blessed in this generation of women. We have more opportunity than any generation has had before us. >> And so I've just tried to focus on that. I'm very much a glasses half full girl. And I'm also I'm submitting to God in my generation, right? So I and I'm submitting to the big C church. I that's gone well for me. And I know there are so many people listening right now that are like, Jenny, it has not gone well for me. And we need to honor that and acknowledge that the word submission has been used to abuse, to control, to manipulate women in so many churches, in so many marriages, in so many situations, and there's a lot of hurt. And so as men, it's like ask your wife or ask the women in your church, does it go well for you to be here under my leadership? Like is it is it safe? Is it an easy place for you to serve? Do you do you feel like you can use your gifts here? Do you feel like you have opportunities? Ask some of those questions and be unafraid to hear the answer because it's hard as a woman to um yeah to not to not know. I've had to wrestle with insecurity and fear of offending or or overstepping or you I mean I've lived a lot of my life very cautious. I'm living more fully into it because I've learned how to do that. But >> yeah, it's hard. It's hard. >> Did it feel hard here? >> No. >> Yeah. >> I loved it here. >> Part of it is because in in John Eldrich's Parlament, it's a beauty to rescue. >> And so it's not because she's pathetic because she can't do anything for herself. Because a marriage where the woman is pathetic and the man is dominant is not beautiful. No, there's no beauty to rescue. There's nothing to salvage right? >> Um, basically what you're doing is you're you're just trying to rearrange the ashes. It's like that's that's not helpful. >> Yeah. >> But you talk about collaboring. >> One of the things that's important with the church that takes disciplehip seriously, which is kind of a a hinge point of your relationship and my relationship because of the first phone conversation we had, but um generational >> co- lababoring. I'm in the men's space, right? So, it's like, "Hey guys, who are you discipling?" Right? Who's discipling you? Okay, someone's pouring into you. You're pouring into someone else. It can't just be your sons and daughters. It's got to be other people. You know, that that kid in the neighborhood whose dad isn't there for whatever reason. Like, you know, who are you doing that for? But especially with women as well. It's like, who is that that older in the faith gal? The the gal that's been a Christian more hours than you. She may not even be older than you, but she's been a Christian more hours than you have been. that is willing to sweetly grab your face and be like, "No." >> Oh, I mean, what what was said tonight about the disciplehip crisis? That's language I use all the time. It is a crisis. I was discipled. Weren't y'all? Like, I had Michelle Bose at the University of Arkansas sit me down on her shag carpet and pull out Master Plan of Evangelism. And everything I do on planet earth is because of that little book in her living room teaching me the way of Jesus and teaching me to pray for all the lost people in my life and teaching me the heart of Jesus for the lost. I would not be doing anything I'm doing if it weren't for her. So yeah, I it it terrifies me. Praise God. My kids have had it, but I go to those campuses and I'm like Lord and the churches are there. The churches are present and the churches >> but I'm like we need you. And how many times do we meet men and women that are older that feel irrelevant, that feel like they don't have any purpose? And I'm like calling you up right now. Like you have there are such beautiful hungry young believers in the next generation that need a mama, that need a daddy. They didn't have one. They don't know how to follow Jesus. >> So we have a ministry here called 18 1825. >> Okay. >> And it's for 18 to 25 year olds. >> And we tell them this is not youth group 2.0. Yeah, >> this is to find your place in the great commission. This is the only reason this ministry exists. >> Love this church. >> And one of my favorite things we do and we have a senior adult ministry that I love so much. We kind have kind of have two lanes. There's like the varsity lane. >> So we have how many outposts do we have in nursing homes and I think it's 13 >> 13 campuses in nursing homes. Okay. We're baptizing hundredy old people. >> Oh, I love it. >> Right. Okay. So then but then we have like a JV senior adult. This is like you're if you play for the senior TE's, you're a senior adult, bro. >> And the number one thing that our 1825 said that they needed in their life was grandparents. >> So, we do this sum every summer. We do this thing. It's one of the favorite my favorite things we do. >> Can't remember what night of the week, but they meet here. They all meet around tables. >> Love it. >> And it's like six or eight 18 to 25ers. >> Yeah. >> And a a senior adult, either couple or individual, and they do a book study together. The first year we did Don't Waste Your Life. Last year we did purpose- driven life. >> So good. >> And they need each other. >> The old people need the energy, the purpose, the be reminded, you know, and the young people need the experience. My favorite thing, >> I love it when they read the Bible. Of course, I love that. But what I really love is you hear one of these old guys go, "Buddy, you need a budget, >> right?" >> Or, "Let me show you how to change your tire." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because they didn't have parents or they didn't have parents. And then the young people can show the old people how to not reply all to a text >> and it just goes good. They just serve each other. It's awesome. And then you see them in the lobby generational thing as God 60y olds and these 20-year-olds all hugging necks and stuff. >> Yeah. >> But you felt it tonight. Like I looked down, Zach and I were just like in awe of the front row. You've got you've got a man singing his guts out, probably in his 70s, holding the hand of his wife in a wheelchair with a blanket over her leg. Next to them, you have a little girl in a pink tutu that came straight from dance with her arms. She's probably eight years old with her arms in the air. And I was like, "Oh my goodness, if that were just the only picture I saw of this church." >> Um, all the generations just lined up on the front row. That's what I could see. But yeah, it's it's how it's supposed to be. And we're supposed to find a family at church. And it's Yeah, it's how it's supposed to go. >> John Horn, you mentioned one thing that I wanted to ask you about. You said confession is not the same thing as repentance. I did know that. Do you think that in your experience people stop short of repent? Like they'll say I get it off my chest and that's >> feels good to get it off their chest. >> Right. So explain the difference in how they go the full >> Yeah. I mean that is the work of the spirit and I do trust that. I found a lot of comfort in what I do. Um because I would be going like a night like tonight and then I would leave and there was a feeling of wow that was that was an incredible experience. I mean, it felt as sincere as something can feel. >> But then I'd wonder, you know, like, was that just emotionalism? Like, did everyone go back to how they were? Did everybody pick up the porn the next day? Did, you know, I I would wonder that and it would be hard for me because I couldn't follow up and we were going to the next city and that's how it's been. >> And I I read Aresh the story of the soils and that comforted me so much because the farmer can't control the soil. you know, you just are scattering the seed and that's your job. And the soil is not the responsibility of the farmer. But I I would always want to throw the seed in case it catches. And I can just say now having been doing this for years and and I say this meaning more the revival evangelism space that I've been in for the last, you know, four years, I've gotten the drug dealer that comes and finds me and it says I'm going on the mission field. I've gotten the student who is now, you know, heading into ministry in a church and was completely wasted, you know, the night they came to a college event. I've I I've seen them follow up and I've seen the girl that comes up and with her two mentors on either side of her and and I had baptized her that night and she was in so much bondage and there was that feeling of like I don't know if you're going to change. I it feels pretty dark. And I'm never forget she has red hair and and she comes and finds me with her two mentors years later at an event I'm speaking at. And she said, "I've changed." And the mentors look at me and go, "She's changed years later." And and so I I just think we we have to trust that we work with God. >> We were at an event this week and Pastor Matt Chandler was here and he said, >> "I decided a long time ago that results are up to God." >> That's right. >> You know, spread the seed. Like I'm I just am so tired of the cynical voice in the air. >> Oh, >> that is saying like this isn't God. >> You did that. >> Like guys, okay. Like it's probably on my I I got on live right right when I walked off stage cuz I was like you got to know because I've been waiting to see this in the church. I've been waiting to see this much desperation in the church, Joby. And and so my night, my week, my year is made right now. And and so I'm telling everybody like it's it's titting the church. Like I want them to know. I want them to believe for their churches it could shift that people could be desperate the way that college students are, the way that inmates are. And and so and I saw it tonight and so I reported it because that's part of my job in life too. And so I'm telling everybody and I know I mean immediately I'm live. I'm like that's religious, you know, and I'm like I get it. And so many people are lost and they don't believe it. But there are a lot of strong believers that just genuinely think, >> well, listen, I got saved at a Baptist church camp on the last night of camp. Yeah. >> After they reenacted the crucifixion of Christ. >> Sure. Me too. >> And and saying, you know, just as I am about 15 times. >> Me too. This is my story. >> And coach Lee gets up and shares the gospel. And then I didn't go down at first because I was so embarrassed. >> Yeah. And then your friends and he goes, "I think there's one more." >> Oh, you were the one more. >> And I got up. >> That's why you say one more. >> Uhhuh. And nobody followed up with me and nobody discipled me. >> Okay, man. >> And here I am. >> So I believe >> Yes. >> I believe Philippians 1:6. I am I am personally because the Bible says it and I have lived it. I am confident of this that he who began a good work will bring it to completion. >> Yes. >> So >> do you know how many seats there are in there that you spoke to tonight? 3,000 >> and one >> the day of Pentecost and one more. >> So what what I feel like you do >> probably naturally is like because you're describing these churches where they're not seeing movement individual believers or individual people that want to believe they have that desperation. >> It's like the the the piggy bank where they can store their spiritual equity is covered, right? There's a film over it and nothing can go inside. M >> and so your job is not to fill up the spiritual equity piggy bank. Your job is to take the film off. >> And so you took the film off tonight, right? >> And so because I tell people all the time, whether it's spiritual, mental, or physical resilience, >> you got to make deposits in those piggy banks. And guess what? The bill comes due every morning, right? You don't get to study the Bible today for tomorrow. You don't get to work out today for next year. The bill just comes due every morning. >> Yeah. >> But so many people have just gotten used to the film. So, it's almost like a safety blanket. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I like that. I I do think um I do think it it's funny. You're in rooms and you're like, "Lord, why why do scales fall off sometimes and they don't other times?" And >> and I don't have answers, you know? >> Me either. >> I wish I did. I wish there was some formula. >> Sometimes it's in the same room. There's one guy gives his life to Christ and that guy is like just >> apathetic. >> Like he's on his app booking his lunch plans. >> I don't know. It's the spirit of God. Salvation is is Lord's. Look, the biblically, I mean, listen, I am obviously pro disciplehip. We're not in the crowd business. We're in the disciplem business. You all >> Amen. Amen. Amen. Master plan of evangelism. >> So, who discipled the Ethiopian unic? Philip Stinking just like got tra teleported out of there. Good luck. >> Yeah. >> Turns out >> it's both. Yeah. >> Apparently that guy took the gospel to Ethiopia and planted the church. And >> I mean, >> Yeah. And and I think it's both, right? It's it's like praise God for the churches that do surround these moments where, you know, I I think I've gotten comfortable realizing like I can help create catalytic moments for people to experience God. The church has to be right there healthy and ready to to help. >> This is one of the reasons Kyle and I work together so much. And uh we we actually met through kind of a disciplehip conversation and but what it led to cuz he says some outlandish stuff on his show. I mean, he just says I want to hear it >> allegedly. You It is on >> record. >> You can listen, >> but we were talking about it one time or a bunch of times. And I was like, "Listen, man. There's a difference between a prophet and a shepherd." >> Your job is to come in, drop truth bombs, say, "Deal with that. I'm I'm off to the next place." That is your job. >> Prophet's job. >> That's the prophet's job, man. Now, I I I think I have a prophetic edge when I preach, but that's not my job is to shepherd a flock. That means you got to start where they are. >> Yeah. That's why you're balling when your people are naming the things they just named >> and then lead them to. But I need him. >> Yeah. >> I need them. I need him to go on the show and say the provocative things that you say, to deal with some things that they don't have categories for, to poke the religious bear. I need you to do that. But >> and I got I come along and >> but you believe in all those gifts. I think I think a lot of the gifts are impotent in the church right now >> because they're not familiar or like prophetic is not that makes some people went and it's like oh there's all these people have a gift of evangelism, gift of prophecy, gift of these things and they aren't using those things because there's there's no training, there's no awareness, there's no space for it. And so I do feel like for me as someone who grew up on the side of the church where the highest thing was teaching, teaching, teaching, teaching. And I'm a prophet evangelist. Like that's where I live. That's the space I live in. >> Yeah. >> I wasn't trained, especially as a female to be a prophet evangelist. I knew Beth Moore taught her Bible executed to do. I was DTS. I went to Dallas Theological Seminary. I had that training. But it wasn't until I started functioning in my gifts of prophet prophetic and evangelism that things started to explode around me. And so we've just got to be aware like we got to wake up all the gifts in the church because we're in a moment where I do believe the harvest is plentiful and the laborers are few and we really need lay people to like own their parts. >> Well, here's the thing. Let me say this. The internet will crucify the sins of the apostle and the prophet. M >> because it's aggressive. >> Yeah. >> And they'll coddle the sins of the shepherd and the teacher. >> Wow. >> Because it's apathy. >> When when I get asked, >> you'll get a raise for that, >> right? One when I get asked to to speak somewhere, you know, the the good places, the great hosts, like a church of 11:22, they'll say, "Hey, what do you need?" And what they expect me to say is water and corn nuts or something like I like, "What do you need in the green room?" I say, "I need y'all to be ready." >> That's good. >> And they're like And they're like, "What do you mean?" And I'm like, cuz my style is burn it down and walk away. >> I like you. >> Well, and people are like, what do you mean by that? I'm like, I don't live here, >> right? >> We get to go cause trouble. >> Yeah. I don't live in who's it, what's Tennessee like you do. And so I'm like, my job is to come in here and I'm not the yell at the guy. I'm not the barker, anything like that. I just like I don't know how to speak other than clearly and directly. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm like, I'm going to burn off some stuff just by doing my thing. >> Yeah. please stand ready to do something with with with what happens. So it's like whether it's a salvation, >> whether it's somebody confessing sin, whether it's someone who has my story who became a Christian as a 15year-old and didn't have a disciple >> until I was like 37 years old and asked Joby, can you please disciple me like I'm like I'm just like swimming as fast as possible in whatever direction. And so like but but that's honestly the thing that you you need from people is the churches aren't standing ready and it's been a through point of CLS right into saturated because a pastor goes up there they open their Bible and they expect nothing to happen with the words they deliver. They're not expecting >> I know I think that might be like the what I feel now is just I go in rooms and I expect things to happen and I think that there's a lack of faith. I think that that is real. Like, do people It's one reason I get on the live in your office because I'm like, >> "This is actually happening in the church. >> This can happen in your church. Beg God for it." You know, like I just I if people could just pray for it and want it bad enough, um God wants to go where he's wanted. >> Yeah. >> And so, we have to believe that he could move around us and save our towns and save our friends and our neighbors. >> Yeah. Amen. Another another one of my favorite lines was I love the Bible. The it's not a story about people who have gotten their act together. >> Yeah, it's not >> it's a story of people coming home to God. And >> and I thought of the quote from Martin Luther. You know, the Christian life is daily repentance. And so, let's end with a few like h you're you're a Christian. You're walking with God. How do you go back home? Like what's it look like to I've wandered. Let me come back home. Like if that's my life, that's my whole life >> is to come back home constantly. >> What is it? What does it look like? >> Well, I love the verse in the prodical son where he says he came to his senses. I just think it's the beginning of >> of knowing we need God. >> I love what you said. Some of you don't realize it and I'm so scared for you. >> Yeah. >> I'm scared for the religious cuz they're not desperate. And that's who Jesus was talking to. Like you don't know you need God. I came for the sick. >> Dude, this is how Jesus begins his teaching ministry. >> Yeah. >> Matthew 4 says he began from that day on to begin to repre preach. Repent >> and believe. >> For the kingdom of heaven is at hand. >> Yeah. >> Like the thing that you're looking for is within your grasp. The only way to do it is repent. >> Yeah. >> This is a Kyle line that I've sold it 100 million times. The difference between confession and repentance. We've had this frustration, especially in men's groups are the worst, dude. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Guy's like, "Man, I'm struggling in porn." >> No, you're not. You're just looking at it. >> And then you tell us you're struggling with it. Fight. >> You're not fighting like a a struggle would be, >> I've invited you into my life. I've put the filters on. I'm doing I'm praying like crazy >> and then I screwed up. Okay, that's a fight. You're in the fight, >> right? >> But you're just looking at it every day and calling a struggle. You're not struggling. So then when Jesus really starts preaching, I mean his first big sermon, sermon on the mount, right? >> The opening line, >> blessed are the poor in spirit, >> it's the beginning. >> Yep. I know. If you're not spiritually bankrupt, dude, one of my favorite, we've we've we've screwed this up so bad >> because of the sweet Christian bookstores whom I love and the cheesy8s worship music >> as the deer pants for streams of running water. >> So my soul, >> there's a big elk right there that I shot in Colorado 10 years ago or something. You know why deer pant? They don't pant. They don't just the picture in the bookstore is this beautiful eight-point buck standing by a sweet little stream and they're just that's and then there's the verse Psalm 42. That's not what they do. I'm going hunting tomorrow. >> There's two reasons. They're either chasing tail or somebody's trying to kill them. >> That's the only reason they pant. >> Oh my gosh. No. >> So, >> so what David is saying is >> the notes reflect >> in your until you come to a place of desperation like if I don't get a drink of water, I'm going to die. My tears have been my food, >> right? >> That's not as though >> that was your church tonight, man. >> I know, but we've been preaching this thing hard for 14 years. >> Unbelievable. I You are so right. And is what the church is missing. And it's so hard as someone called to itinerant where I go in different rooms all the time like to be in at FSU's campus and have mass repentance, mass coming to the gospel, tears over their sin, wanting to change their lives, and then to go into churches and they look at me with their arms crossed the same sermon. >> Until your need exceeds your ego, you will never bow your knee to Jesus. >> Well, Jenny, here's why I invited you. Well so >> that's so good. >> This will tell you a little bit about where I come from in terms of my approach to ministry. Psalm 97:10 is my favorite verse. >> Oh, you who love the Lord, hate evil. >> Christians don't have a category for hate. I taught Psalm 97:10 to my Sunday school class. Oo, they got big mad. They didn't like it because I gave them categories and language for Christian hatred. >> Because we don't hate things. Yeah. because we kind of like them. >> We're neutral and apathetic. >> Well, >> at best >> the the apathy part of things I was like, how can you evangelize if you don't hate the sin that's sending someone to hell? >> I know. >> And it's just again, we lose the category of it because, you know, we're uncomfortable talking about hell. >> That's right. >> We don't talk about the actual what what what's on the line, what's what's at stake. Yeah. >> One of we do. >> Well, yeah. >> Hard. Honestly, I'm sitting in a room and you I obviously knew who you were. We were at So, we get invited to this like >> cool kids gathering. >> It's the who's who >> of evangelicalism. Whoever you all and at this point I don't know most of them are they're all your friends. I know a bunch of them. I know who all they you know it's the who's who. And Jenny's talking to the who's who of church leaders and she's just screaming at us. Man, >> I was crying. >> God wants to move. >> I was crying that day. >> And what are we? And and that's when I walked up. I was like, I need you to come preach at Saturated next year. >> That was two years ago. >> And then I went JPluda. >> Yeah. >> And this was a God thing. I wanted to meet him. I'd been listening to his sermons and stuff. I'd never met him. >> Yeah. And I and and I told Chandler I was like, "Hey man, I want I've never been introduced to PLU. I'd like to I just I don't I never assume anybody knows who I am." >> Yeah. He knew, >> bro. He comes up to me. The one guy I wanted, he walks up, he was like, "Pastor Joby, >> your sermons have influenced." I was like, "Shut your nine foot tall face. >> I love that man. These are all my favorites." Cuz they are they are bleeding, too. their bleeding hearts, you know, and and and you get behind the scenes with people and you realize how many people really just want to see the gospel get to people and it's like their it's their burning desire. I mean, >> and it it's real. It's it's Yeah. >> JP sent me a text the other day. We'll talk about this tomorrow with him. It was me. I'll just tell you who it is. Me, Chandler, Howard, Pakuda. We're on this little >> group text, right? >> I think you need a girl. >> What? Come on. >> Just kidding. I'm just kidding. Y'all do your voice though. >> You're kidding. Not one time, not one time are these guys like you know how many we had this that is never once what we do. >> Somebody it happened to preclude us six times in two days. He said six random people in random cities cuz you know he travels speak like we do and he's like six people said the same thing in different places. They said >> I've been listening to you Chandler Howton and Joby Martin and y'all changed my life. >> Oh and he's like who the heck are we man? And then it was a 10-minute conversation of >> Oh. >> So when I saw you on the stage in front of all the cool kids. Yeah. >> And your heart just breaking >> for the for the spirit of God to just pour out on his people. >> That's that's when I was like, >> will you please come here? >> And the reason I got Chandler in to talk to you is just like tell him vouch for me bro. >> He's preached here 10 times or something. >> Well, you guys are my brothers. Like I I just I'm I'm in love with this place. I thank God for it. I guys listening, if you're listening out there and you're like, "God is not moving like that at my church." >> I would just say this. Be jealous. >> Like want it. Look over and go, "Oh my gosh, I want God to move like that." Like this is godly jealousy. Like to be like, "I want God to move in our church, in my life the way he's moving at 11:22." Because it's real. Like what? Tonight was no games. Tonight was no show. Listen, I ain't got time to play church, man. >> I ain't got >> That's what it feels like. >> Um, and listen here, pastors. I know a bunch of pastors listen to this. >> It starts in the heart of you, >> that's right, >> bro. If you're not desperate for God, >> right? >> If you're not if you don't feel like the enemy is trying to chase you down and kill you, >> and your flesh is trying to kill you and this world's trying to I mean, my Bible says in John 10, the only thing the enemy is trying to do is kill, steal, and destroy. >> Yeah. >> That's the only thing he's trying to do. Yeah. >> And I just by God's grace >> Mhm. >> He won't let me get over the gospel. >> I know. Me, too. >> I just can't get over I can't I can't believe he saved me. >> I still can't believe he saved me. And then and then that he would even let me try to make a disciple. >> So, >> yeah. >> And so, a part of the reason I think I sit in this seat is cuz I have no business sitting in the seat. And if he and if he doesn't do what he does, man, >> this whole thing is just gonna >> shut it down. If this isn't what he wants, man, shut it down. >> Well, this is the through point of what y'all are saying. Don't we get comfortable with arrival? Like, you always strive, right? Oh, you know, when I get here, I will have arrived. When I accomplish this goal or get this thing or check this box, I will have arrived. >> Some people are like, "Christian, great. I got my get out of hell free card. This is awesome. I'll go back to the way I was doing things just with a little bit more CCM in my life." And it's like there we we are called to so much more. We are called to so much more. And I mean that that's exactly what y'all talk about. That will kill your apathy. That will grow your hatred for what is sending people to hell. >> Vinky pop quiz. Hate to put you on the spot, but see if you remember. What did I tell our church? The our number one danger is >> complacency. >> Complacency. >> Amen. >> Because it's so good. Everything's going so good. >> Yeah. >> Well, they aren't. >> And the moment if you walk in and be like, "Oh, that sermon about repentance. That's for somebody else. >> We have to I'm going to ask you to pray, Jenny, just a second to close this. But before I have to brag on my pastor real quick. >> This man, you're just getting to know him. This man is a real deal. >> Yeah. >> He's one of the busiest, hardest working people I have ever met in my life. And we have had a little bit of something going on this week. We've had a lot going on this week. You know what he's doing yesterday afternoon? >> What? >> In a hospital room. >> Yeah. >> Holding the hand of a girl who's dying. >> Gh. Yeah, >> that's that's his heart >> and that's why God's born out of spirit. >> Amen. Amen. So, we just talked about we talked about a lot of >> churches listening saying, "Ah, I wish that was happening." Or even just the Christian going to church, "I wish it was happening in my church." >> That's right. >> Would you pray for this church and for anybody listening that God would pour out his spirit and do this? >> Yeah. >> To the ends of the earth. >> Oh, Father, thank you. Thank you that you saved us. Thank you that we get to work with you, collabor with you. I mean, gosh, who are we to collabor with God? So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you that you have invited us into your mission. >> God, I do pray for every person listening that the hunger they would feel, the the burning desire they would feel in their heart is for more of you. >> And that they would have a burning desire for the lost to know you. And that they would see that they are a part of that story. that there is no special people doing special things. There are surrendered people doing incredibly crazy things because of you and your spirit. So God, would we surrender as a people across the American church? >> Would there be a lament like there was in the throughout the walls of of 11:22 tonight? Would it spread to the ends of of the earth, God? that that your people would lament their sin and turn from their wicked ways and that you would bless us and heal our land. God, >> make you God again of all of it of the church. >> God, where we are off, show us where we are apathetic, convict us, >> God, where we have not believed you enough for our own freedom or for other people's freedom. God, help us believe. And thank you for faithful people that are fighting the good fight and and bring us home, God. um when it's time, but not before because we don't want to miss any work that you have for us. We don't want to miss any people that are yet to be saved in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undant.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook. And check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming. www.undaunted.life. The music on this podcast is the song Conqueror by the Christian metal band Void Awaken. Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. Start now.