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That's victrixwellness.comkyle. >> This is Undaunted Life a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. >> All right. Welcome back to the Deep In/ Undaunted episodes during Saturated. And Pastor Joby, I just got to say I think this has been one of the most amazing and spiritually intense saturated in my memory. Would you agree with that? >> I concur. I didn't do anything. Just invited my friends to come preach and ask the spirit of God to move. >> Yeah, you did that. So, thanks for that. >> Call our church to get ready. >> Yeah, we have Pastor Jason Shepard with us. Thank you so much for that. Truly, um, it was powerful. It was powerful. How How did it feel for you? Well, I mean, I've been thinking about doing it for a year, you know? I had been writing the message a year, but I just sort of knew. >> Yeah. >> So, it it felt it felt right. It felt different, honestly. Like, uh, every other night was so different than what I did tonight. Uh, and th those nights felt right, you know. >> Yeah. >> And so, it felt if I I knew it was I went on a walk last night, like after I left here. We didn't leave here till almost midnight. And I got home and uh I walked I don't know how how long and I said uh God, are you sure this is still what you want me to preach? I've been wrestling with that sitting saturated all week, you know, >> but I knew it was and I walked away from that. So it just felt like obedience for me, you know, >> but I mean [clears throat] I felt I know when I do a message like that and I've never preached that one in that way. Not that passage for that and not that story ever. >> Wow. >> In a room. And so, uh, I know there are people hurting out there. >> And so, I knew that it would get to the the heart of some people. So, I have compassion on people, too, when they're listening to it. >> I want to dig in that into that just a little bit deeper because usually when you get an opportunity like saturated, it's like, okay, where where's the grand slam? Like, where am I going to get the most amount of, you know, response? Like, what is my best message? Like, if I can only give one message and this is my last one, here it is. And so it's a bit of a risk to like take a new bat up to the plate and try to figure out, you know, hey, what's here, >> but I don't I don't know that I've ever heard I'm sure it's happened, but I don't know that I've ever heard of someone that's like, hey, I got this idea a year ago in this same room, and it's almost like you didn't use these words, so I'm putting words in your mouth. Like you were haunted by the message. You're almost haunted by the weight of what you were going to have to do because you you poked the bear tonight if if you think about it, chef, because it's like you're like, "Oh, yeah, by the way, you got a gap in your gospel. >> You might as well flick these people in the nose." It's just like that's like that's going to cause some >> some certainly some feelings and some things to maybe break loose in folks, but it just seems like it just hung around your neck for a full year. I just I you know, give me some more information on that because that's heavy. Yeah. I mean, you know, I I shared this story. My my people know it. My friends know it. Like, I've never even talked like this at our own my own home church that I planted. I will do it at start lunches where we welcome people or they're investigating our church and I'll tell them my own story, but I haven't done it for the same I would only want to do it in a way that would bring healing like this. uh I don't know maybe 6 8 months ago a few months after here like it was here last year where I felt convicted I need to not hide that anymore publicly I will share it personally but I haven't shared it publicly. So last year sitting in the seat here saturated and I was only here one night I knew the Lord said you're going to share your story publicly here next year. And then after that like two months later three months later this uh thing out of London called Stream Studio. It's incredible. They have just millions and millions of views for people who are outside of God and the gospel. So they came and I shared my story there and uh and that was a little bit of a precursor to doing it here. But if I wasn't here last year, >> I wouldn't have been ready to do that. And it's been >> it's it's been used widely. Mhm. [clears throat] >> So, yeah. I mean, it was like God for me last year told me, "You got to get this out of the sand and >> get it up, you know, get it up publicly and and out there for people to see because I mean, at the end of the day, no matter what the story is, and I never publicly share the story. I'm not going to dishonor anybody, but it's still a scarlet deed that a pastor has, and that's pretty unusual, >> right?" >> And uh that's not But, you know, you keep living and God keeps crushing you and taking shame away. Mhm. >> And so that's what's happened with me, you know. >> Wow. >> Well, um, uh, an insecure, immature preacher thinks primarily about the sermon that they are going to preach. >> Yeah. >> A mature, seasoned shepherd, no pun intended, thinks about how to serve the people >> with the word of God. And that's what you just did. >> Yeah. Yeah. We heard we heard Dr. Crawford the Ritz say you know he's like it's easy if you're a preacher and you travel you know kind of what you were saying Kyle it's easy to just dial up your best ones but somebody who says God what do you have for this people it's it's special and I felt that >> well I think that was part of my insecurity I mean I was I was really actually scared until couple of days ago I wasn't and then the last few days man since I've been listening to every every preacher here bring an incredible word I'm I'm an idiot because I I you know I'm not bringing a the best of the best sermon that I've ever done. So I I was pretty scared about that actually. If you have people over to your house a lot, never try a new recipe, you know. >> Exactly. >> Bring out you bring out your best. But man, I God honored it. Praise God for it. You know, and it was the the word he had for us. The line the line when God crosses a line in your life, it'll expose a gap in your gospel. And that gospel is pain. Um h how have you seen people silently making that deal with God? That's so powerful. You referenced Job like people are saying to God, "This is your boundary, God." >> And you said that's a those are God words, not people words. That's right. And so >> I mean, how many people out there you think are living their life with God that way? >> Mo most of us. I mean, that's why God said, "Go look at Job." I think most people have that. And I don't think we even know it until it gets there. >> I think the pain is what reveals the gap in our gospel, >> right? >> I mean, I I might still have I might still have that, you know? I mean, it hasn't been pressure tested in other ways. >> Yeah. >> I mean, this past year pressure tested it for me in some other ways, but I'd already been through something way worse. >> So, when the worst thing that could ever happen to you happens to you, >> that really pressure tests your gospel. That's true. Yeah. >> I want to ask you about something because [clears throat] Joey's mentioned this a lot. I think you mentioned it at CLS Church Leader Summit. Um, and I had the unbelievable privilege recently to be able to interview Chuck Swindoll, a man that's deep in the fourth quarter of his life and ministry. He's been married for 70 years and full >> overtime. >> Yeah. Full-time vocational ministry for 60 plus years. I mean, all the things, right? And then, I mean, it's the the quote that I mean, more people should know. It's something that he said at the Catalyst Conference. I don't know when it was, but when God wants to do an impossible task, he makes an impossible person and he crushes him. >> Leave room for the crushing. It is part of the curriculum God uses to make us ready to do what he wants us to do. There's an obviously direct correlation to what we see in the Garden of Gethsemane. Um, you know, you've taught a lot of people, Joby, about, you know, what does Gethsemane mean? And, you know, it's the place of crushing. You know, it's like an olive press. And it's when you think about the pressure, the literal pressure that he was under. And it was manifesting through burst blood vessels all over his face. You know what I mean? Yeah. >> Which that's something that usually comes from someone being strangled. But it's just like the amount of pressure that he felt. It was coming in that moment. >> I just wonder what your word would be for somebody that the crushing didn't have an endate. It's a continual crushing. It's a mental crushing. It's a spiritual crushing. It's just a weight that's just sitting on their chest. And it's not as easy. It's just like today's the day I decided to take the weight off. And it could it's usually something that was done to them, right? Something they didn't deserve, some sort of injustice or abuse that they suffered and they it's not that they want to keep it, right? Some people want to keep the pain cuz at least pain's familiar, >> right? But that person that just literally doesn't know how that they could ever get past the crushing to where they could even be one of those people that's now can identify in people's eyes and in their emotions what they what they're going through and then can minister to them in a unique way. I mean I would like to think that before I've gone through crushing like that and other things that I would have hope for anybody in the middle of their in the middle of their pain. I have more hope for people now. >> I mean, I can I can say to anyone going through anything with confidence that if you allow the Lord to walk you through this on the other side of it, there's going to be beauty and strength that you never would have imagined. And I've seen enough people and walk with enough people who have been through the darkest pain. Um, and I've seen their stories on the other side of it. I mean, this is where you really believe the gospel. It's not do I just believe the gospel for me. Do I believe it for somebody else? I mean, do I believe it for the person you're talking about? Do I believe that this pain that the power of the resurrection can take it and capture it and use it for something beautiful? So, I I'm not only believing the gospel for myself, I'm actually believing it for anybody I talk to. >> And there's a lot of pain tonight. We could walk out of the room right now and talk to people and you're bringing up people, you know. >> Yeah. I believe it for the other people, too. when if there's So I'm not trying to like I'm just I have so many through points as you were saying this because and I've talked to Joby about this a lot like the DMs and the emails I get from men all over the globe who are reaching out to their favorite podcaster. >> Yeah. >> To pour their guts out to say what happened to them to say what they had done. >> Cuz it just it shows me they don't have a shepherd. They don't have a pastor. They don't have elders that they're they're going to. They don't have a foxhole. They don't have Mac carriers. They're just they're just a dude floating in the ocean. You know what I mean? >> If they're reaching out to me >> and I try to do what I can to assist them, but I always push them back towards the church. It's like you have to be in a local body of believers. You have to have guys. You have to have I mean the the image of Matt carriers, you know, destroying someone's real estate to get you to the feet of Jesus. Like it doesn't get better than that. >> Yeah. >> But you can just see inherently in the stuff they're struggling with is I know God's good. I know that is the correct answer. I just don't really believe it. >> Mhm. like I know he sees me. So they're not wondering really necessarily like what you said. They're not wondering does God see me? Is he actually here? Is he actually real? No. No. They know all the questions have answers and they answer them correctly. But then they're like I just don't know why he's continuing to allow this to happen. >> Because I know he's looking at me. I know he sees my pain. I know he he sees all of this. And I mean Shep, I just get I'm flatfooted with these dudes. like aside from the fact that I got, you know, a three paragraph sum summary of their life in an [clears throat] email or a DM >> and then to try to give them some sort of an apologetic for how to live with that. It's it's just like I mean it's a different kind of crushing, you know what I mean? >> Mhm. >> So I just don't know what when you're counseling someone because you are a shepherd, you are a lead pastor, like if they're in that kind of dark night of the soul, like they're in the darkest part, right? What do they do? I sat with a dude in our church a couple weeks ago, MMA fighter, uh, you know, black belt dude. His his life is fully surrendered to the Lord. Been walking with Jesus a long time and he's going through something right now physically. Nobody has any answers for to the point that he had to We've talked a whole lot this whole last year. We've met a lot. We've met some. We've talked a lot. And you know, I told him, "We got to fight to live, but be surrendered to die." And how he's walking through this. I mean, I there's nothing new to tell anybody. It just gets back to the gospel every time. I'm going to I'm going to surrender my life to die and I'm going to fight to live another day. And so, this guy's literally doing that with his life, fighting to live another day. Mhm. >> But anybody that I'm with, I mean, one, we show compassion cuz Jesus does that. >> I mean, anybody I meet with that's hurting. I'm like, man, I I'm sorry. My question wasn't, "God, do you see me?" My question was, "Do you care?" I had three questions. Do you see me? >> Do you care? If you see me, do you care? And if you care, are you able to do anything here? >> And the turning point for me was after a long while, I don't know how long it was. I mean, I couldn't speak, man. Um, I took my trash out at midnight if I took it out. I I only stayed alive for my 5-year-old and 2-year-old. >> That's the only reason I'm alive. And um I mean, at some point, I knew here's what the Lord said to me. And I'm tell I'm telling you like David was on the like laying down and sackloth and ashes. I did too. And um I would get up when it was my time to see my kids. I would go to the mall like there's this little merrygoround and we we used to go there all the time. So I try to keep everything the same for them. And I would I remember one day I'm in the food court and I just spontaneously can bust in tears like people around me are looking at me, you know. But um yeah, man. I I didn't want to live but I knew I had to. And at some point the Lord one night I'm alone, kids are gone, life's horrible, stuff I won't talk about. And um the Lord said, "I'm not doing this. This isn't the way I work. I don't I hate this actually. I don't like this. I hate it." And it helped me understand like sin sin is what does this. The brokenness of the world is what does this. God wasn't doing this to me. sin was doing it. [clears throat] >> And so that helped me go, God does care about me and he does see and he is able and one day he will be victorious over this and somehow in this world he's going to overcome. He's going to use this and overcome it. But God's not doing this to me. Just because it's happening doesn't mean he's doing it. And so that's what I help guys see. I mean we live in a broken planet. That's why a lot of our gospel doesn't talk about brokenness. When a when a preacher doesn't talk about sin like y'all talk about it here, it's a dangerous thing cuz then people start to think, "Oh, God doesn't deal in brokenness. The gospel is full of brokenness." >> And we need to tell people it's a broken world and it's a heavy thing to live here. I like to say it's hard to be a human here and we're going to blame all that on God or we're going to blame it on sin. >> So, I'm going to blame the heaviness and the hardness of the world on sin and I got my hope to get to put in the Lord. Hey guys, real quick. I just wanted to remind you that we have an official Undaunted Life store. You can go to shop.undaunted.life or check it out in the show notes. Guys, we're always going to have hats and shirts and a bunch of other awesome stuff. Go there, support us, wear the mission. Again, it's shop.undaunted.life. Check out the link in the show notes. Shop.undaunted.life. And you basically, you know, the charge and the call is push play. you know, don't don't be that person who says,"I have an exception or a boundary for God." How do how does somebody do that? Because you you you even said in a comment a minute ago, I don't know. I mean, there might be more pain than I'm going to deal with. >> There will be. >> There will be. And yet, we want to live surrendered and and and God gives grace for every day. So, how do I give him that surrender when the pain's not that big pain's not here yet? We can live fully surrendered while not being fully sanctified. >> I'm not fully sanctified, but I I I hope I'm fully surrendered. >> Yeah. >> So, let's live fully surrendered while we're still being sanctified. >> And there will be I mean, it is trials that that like James says that matures us and completes us. >> And so, it'll be trials of many kinds. That was a trial of one kind. I don't believe I'll go through that again. >> And there will be other trials. And they may not even be as bad as that, but they're going to be different. >> Yeah. >> So, I want to be surrendered all the time. And I part part of my sanctification is not living in fear of the next thing. >> So, I'm fully surrendered, but not fully sanctified is the position that I want to that I want to live my life in. >> How'd you meet Brooke? >> Uh, I had been, >> which is his wife. >> Yeah, Brook's my wife. And uh she had been a single mom of four kids six and under when she became single and she had been single 5 years and uh I had been about a year and a half and somebody at church knew her and knew me. Um after she went through her divorce, she moved to our town and I was at a big church. I had never met her and uh somebody said, "You should meet Brooke. I I know her and I know you and you all have a lot in common." And then one day they pointed her out to me and I'm like, well, she's hot. [laughter] So that's how I'm like, yeah, I had a little saying. I said, I'm not going to waste a divorce on an ugly woman. [laughter] >> Let's go. >> I think that might be in the Song of Solomon. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So yeah, I mean that was helpful. But um man, we just, you know, the message of it. >> I hadn't asked anybody on a date. What' you say? >> That's in the message remix. Uh, I'm like, you know, I'm uh I hadn't asked anybody out on a date in two decades and like she's if she tells a story about it, she laughs. I mean, it I did not do a good job. It ended up working. >> But, uh, yeah, I asked her on a date and we just went and talked for I don't know like six hours that night. Just had so much in common. Both love the Lord, both been through the same kind of thing. And >> um yeah, we just >> So like when you were on the floor, bro, you you could you even >> conceive of the life that you have now? >> When I was on the floor, I just wanted the life I had before I was on the floor. >> Mhm. >> That's all I wanted. >> Wow. >> I just I mean, when you're on the floor, you just want the life you had before. >> Can I read like a ton of Bible verses? You can do whatever you want. >> This is Thanks. Uh this is 2 Corinthians 4 and5. That's what this is. >> Yep. >> It is. Uh but we [clears throat] have this treasure of jars of in jars of clay to show that the unsurpassing power belongs to God and not to us. You would think the rest of that would be like like a rahrrah verse. We're about to put on display the surpassing power that belongs to God. It's like all right. What you got? Here's what we are. Afflicted in every way, but not crushed. Perplexed, but not driven to despair. Persecuted, but not forsaken. Struck down, but not destroyed. Always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. [snorts] >> For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus's sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you. Since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what has been written, I believe, and so I spoke, we also believe, and so we also speak, >> knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people, it may increase thanksgiving to the glory of God. >> Then he goes on to say, "So we do not lose heart. >> Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed by the day." Here the somebody laying on the floor needs to hear this right now. Ready? He keeps going for this light and momentary affliction because it doesn't feel light and momentary. >> No. Or >> because you ain't been to heaven yet. That's why. >> That's right. >> But there will be a day. >> Okay. So that's comparative. >> For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. >> So it's not meaningless. >> Mhm. >> This is the Piper thing, man. Whe there's cancer or a car wreck, it's not meaningless. Whatever pain you're going through >> is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory. Like there's [clears throat] a glory that you receive by getting off the floor >> and being resurrected with Christ. As we look not to the things that are seen, but to the things that are unseen for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. Then he talks about heaven to get our eyes off of the our circumstances a little bit. >> He's not diminishing our circumstances. He's just trying to give us a little bit of an eternal perspective. Then when you get to the end of five multiple times, then he says, "Therefore," [clears throat] >> so since you had the crap kicked out of you by the sin of this world, >> Mhm. >> and yet you know that it was for an eternal glory beyond all comparison. So what am I going to do, God? Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. That's where he goes for the next paragraph. And then when he gets to the end of the chapter, therefore, like since I have been beaten, since I have been squished, since I've been on the floor, and yet I've been resurrected in Christ, therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. [clears throat] >> And then Paul's so smart in my mind, it's like the person is like, "How am I going to do that? M [clears throat] and he goes, "Here's how you're going to do it. For our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God, >> working together with him, then we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain." >> That was the end of your sermon. >> Like, you're on the floor right now. And if you if you persevere with Christ in this, the worst thing you could ever imagine. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Then there will be a day that God even redeems what was intended for evil. He had intended it for good. >> And the pain that you're walking through is going to be the very thing >> that God uses in your life to appeal to other people. >> Like [clears throat] I went through hell >> and I trust him. >> You can trust him. >> Yeah. I mean, dude, there's my parents split up when I was in high school and then God called me to student ministry for 15 years. >> The primary conversations I'm having with students is about what do you do when life sucks at home? >> That's right. >> And I had been through it, man. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? It's the answer is both, but just say your thoughts, your smart thoughts. Is it that people are getting preached a half gospel that's like, "Oh, God just it wants to make your life happy." Or is it the idol of comfort that's so pervasive that we hate the idea of suffering or pain? What's causing this causing us to not think, "Oh, following Jesus is going to include brokenness." Uh, I mean, you answered and you said both, but I mean, listen, I the the warning every sing if you didn't listen to the sermon, you need to listen to the sermon three times. It was a it was a master class. I also love you didn't like some preachers, especially if they're talking about personal things, are so vague. It's not helpful. >> Yeah. >> Especially about their feelings or the questions they ask in the dark night of the soul. >> Yeah. >> And dude, it's just not helpful. That [clears throat] was very helpful because you were very vulnerable and very honest. >> Mhm. >> The the warning here is this, man. Jesus said, "Don't worry about tomorrow." Cuz what if life is just cruising right now cuz I'm going to be honest, my life today, I had a good day. >> Mhm. >> I got a wife that loves me a lot. >> She's sitting on the front row worshiping with me with her hands up. We sat on the couch all day >> after I worked out and watched the Georgia win by a million. That's cool. Um, I got two kids that know the Lord. And what you don't want to do is live in fear of the future as if he's not a good dad and doesn't want good things for his kids. So Jesus says, "Don't worry about tomorrow man." >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Cuz the the problem, this is where fear creeps in. If you look into the future, >> That's right. >> What you see there will determine the condition of your soul. M >> if you think you or your circumstances >> determine your future >> Yeah. >> you're in trouble. >> Yeah. >> But when we know that the sovereign king of the universe still has the whole world in his hands, that's where faith overcomes fear. So >> what we don't want to do >> is is like have everybody afraid cuz >> right >> the a part I can tell you I I'll tell you right now the gap in my gospel that I have to war against is I'm so blessed I'm like waiting for him to pull the rug out from under me just to like prove something. >> That's not the gospel. >> That's not >> Now a good dad doesn't mind stripping away things that >> you don't need in your life. No problem. But >> yeah, >> but you you you don't want to put that on on the Lord for your future. You want to rest in [clears throat] him today. >> That's a good word. I >> So to answer your question, the first thing I would do for I I would have people read >> first 2 Corinthians 4 and 5 and into six to the point where you basically memorize it. Just keep going back to this. >> And this should actually set you up for because I have a question specifically to that. Um, in that same vein, going back to 2 Corinthians 4:16, so we do not lose heart, though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. When you, again, when I talk to these desperate men that have nobody, which is partially their fault, >> uh, they're holding it together on the outside, right? I get it. >> They're still making quota. They're they're still getting sales done. They they're still going to the gym. They're still doing all that, >> but they are wasting away little by little every day. Yeah. >> And unfortunately, some of those men just decide to eat the bullet. >> Mhm. >> And nobody knew. That's always the story, right? Oh, they seem fine and I can't believe and all that kind of stuff. It's like, well, you weren't looking close enough, were you? Right. You weren't in actual community with that man. You can't stop him from doing that. You really can't. If somebody wants to end their life, they will. But there's so many issues going on in that moment to where they could even read that verse and say yes and amen. And then the exact opposite is what's happening to them. >> When you're when you're on the floor, it's a fog. [clears throat] >> I mean, you can't there's no way you can go, "Oh, yeah. God's going to redeem this for good." It took me a long time to think that. >> Yeah. Um, and I it was it was just basic survival and continuing to take little it wasn't even a step, man. Sometimes it was just a I just raised my head a little bit. I mean, I don't know how to I don't know how to describe to you how low I was, but I'm talking it was the David stuff and it was a lot longer. >> I didn't sleep. I didn't eat. I had to go to the grocery store one time and I had my kids with me and this lady who was a nurse from our church. Our church was real big and we had all these campuses and I would preach at different ones so somebody could go two months and not see me and they didn't know where I was. It would be unusual but she saw me in a grocery store and she said, "Jason, I know her a long time." She said, "What's wrong?" And I said, "Uh, I'm okay." I didn't want to tell anybody cuz I'm like I wanted to make it easier for things to be reconciled so only a few people knew. And uh she said something is wrong with like physically she thought I had some disease. >> And so when you're on when you're on the floor it's a fog man. Mhm. >> And so there there were two two people that I would just I would call and I had a c first time in my life I talked to a counselor and he wasn't really good and I didn't enjoy it. >> But I just needed something. >> Yeah. >> I mean I just decided I'm going to keep living. I didn't I wasn't looking to the other side of it. I wasn't hoping for anything. >> I was just surviving. >> Yeah. [clears throat] But I mean, if you, this is why I think people need to, whatever state you're in right now, especially if you're in a good place, you need to get strong in the word, man. >> You need to get strong in the word. I mean, verses that I'd memorize when I was 12 and 14 and 17. I mean, in college, I'm sitting on my I would spend hours a day. I would memorize a whole, you know, most of a chapter while my clothes are getting washed in a washing machine because nobody would people would steal it. So you'd have to stay and wash your clothes. I just I would memorize, you know, whole passages of scripture. And I'm telling you what, man, when you're low, the spirit of God just starts sliding that into your thought. >> Just real gently. >> Yeah. >> And then I mean, the spirit of God is so good when you're broken. >> And and I think uh he's called the comforter >> and he's really good at comforting >> in a way that nobody else can. And so you got to leave room for grief. There are things to grieve. >> That's true. >> There are things to grieve, man. But at the end of the day, I don't want to live this way my whole life. I knew that. So for me, I wrestled with God like Jacob wrestled with God. I'm like, I'm not letting you go. And uh it was after a long time of that >> that I finally was able to get up with some clarity. >> Yeah. >> But I grieved and I wrestled and I just laid low. Mhm. >> And so what's the dude right there? He doesn't have any friends. He's in the middle of of it. I mean, I would just say listen to some people who have been through the worst of it. And just trust a little bit that what they've been through and where they are now could happen to you. Just live another day. Say we we say do the next right thing. I think you say that here, too. I'm just I just want to do the I I didn't want to do the next wrong thing. I had a buddy who went through something like this. He's a doctor and he uh he told me if you know I didn't know what had happened in his family, but he said, "I went to a bar, found the hottest 20some year old I could find, had a lot of fun for a few weeks, and it made everything worse." >> He said, "I'd caused more pain in my life and other people's lives." And so I just would encourage people keep living, trust what people are saying that you can get to the other side and do the next right thing. And for a while it may be nothing. Just don't do the next wrong thing. That makes it worse. >> Mhm. >> And um Yeah. How how is can you talk a little bit about how bringing people in because it sounds very isolating and it is very isolating. you want to push people. I'm just let me be alone here. How has bringing people into the light telling or bringing into the light telling people telling your story? How has that brought been part of the healing? >> Well, when you're through it, I I think I think you shrink your circle real tight. >> Yeah. >> And then go deeper with whoever's in it. I mean, you got a lot of people. Shallow stuff doesn't work when you're in the middle of it. So, shrink your circle tight and go deep with a few people. I mean, I've done that this past year through another thing I've gone through. I mean, I shrunk my circle tight and uh went deeper with whoever was in it. >> And so, that's just the way I want to live. I don't know. I I hope this is just cuz I'm a believer in Jesus and not this isn't just a victim of my vocation, but I I this what you're saying about the word, dude. I think in Bible verses. >> Yeah. So when you say hope, Proverbs says, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick." Jesus in John 14 says, "Don't let your heart be troubled. Trust in God. Trust also in me." What he's saying is, "I got this. I'm going to prepare a place for you. You guys know all of John 14. It leads to I'm the way, the truth, and the life." Right? >> Um I think about those kinds of things. And and the word of God is so powerful. Feelings are a tool given to you by God to navigate life. >> Um they're they're great gauges. They're terrible guides. Your feelings are a terrible God. >> Mhm. >> And so at some point you allow yourself for all the feelings. Ecclesiastes 3, right? There's a there's a there's time for all the feelings under heaven to weep, to dance, to mourn, >> to rejoice. What I found is if you don't give yourself time to cry when it's time to cry, you won't be able to dance when it's time to dance. >> That's true. >> You know what I mean? >> Uh Jesus in John 11, man, Mary and Martha are at a low place and Jesus is crying in that moment. >> That's right, >> bro. That's the weird. I mean, think about it. He's about to raise Lazarus. He knows how that ends. The Bible doesn't tell us. But how long do you think it took? An hour, 45 minutes, 30 minutes? I mean, he knows before the sun goes down today, these people going to be freaking out. Laz is going to be hopping around getting his grave clothes taken off, bro. >> And yet, in that moment, John 11:35, >> he's [inaudible] at death and he's weeping with Mary. [clears throat] >> And so, one last one. How about Gethsemane? You bring that up. The worst thing is about to happen to Jesus and he knows it. He's sweating like drops of blood. What's the one thing he asked of his disciples? Mhm. >> Can you just watch and pray? >> Mhm. >> So if So to the man that thinks they don't need anybody, who the who do you think you are? >> That's right. >> If Jesus the Christ was like, "Bro, come here. I need y'all praying for me." Cuz that's it. The two things that are get going to get you through this is the the two of the things that are going to let you live in the power that the spirit has available to you [clears throat] >> is going to be prayer and the word. >> That's what's going to get you through. And then and then the people around you, bro, it's like it's like Moses holding up the staff. >> It's like I can't hold this up. >> That's right. >> I can't even hold up the word of God and hold up my prayers right now. And you get some brothers. Get a band brother, Foxhole Brothers, King's Table. We have all kind of different Matt carriers. >> And they're like, "All right, in this season of your life, I'm going to hold up those those arms to you so that you have access to the power that God has made available by the blood through the spirit." >> Yeah. Well, I mean, and the point on that is those men didn't the power wasn't in those men, >> right? >> The power was what they were trying to help get connected to. Like you just said, I if you're looking for power from other people, you're in trouble. I just need some people who are going to keep pointing me back to what is true. >> And so, but I can't do that on my own when I'm really weak. So, I need some people to do it. But the answer is going to be I'm I'm on the floor. It's going to be prayer and the word >> like Joey just said. So for me it was prayer >> and it was the word that had been in me. It was it was in me and it's living and active. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so I would just be telling people when things are good right now be putting the word into you, man. Stockpile. >> Memorize it. Study it. Know it because at some point you're gonna you're going to need it when you can't actively go look for it. I will also tell you when I'm in that though this the I mean again in this most recent season the Psalms the Lord has spoken to me through the Psalms every day all day I had places in Romans places in Ephesians and the Psalms that's where I just lived for >> months >> yeah the guy that you were talking about tonight wrote most of them and think about how many psalms start in pain and end in praise sometimes you got to worship your way through it >> yeah he's like he's schizophrenic whenever you read them but I And you do you do talk about this. I mean, I think we would all agree the only permanent power belongs to the triune God. But you you can borrow power. >> Y >> and what I mean by that is, >> you know, I I know men who were on the floor and they were just trying to make it another hour. >> Mhm. >> They didn't know if they were going to make it from 2:00 to 3:00. >> Yeah. >> And so they would send that text out or they would make a phone call or they would knock on someone's door. They would call a wrong number, whatever, and they would just get an hour's worth of pressure pulled off of them. I mean, a lot of people in this audience, I mean, you you've at least seen a gym, but it's like, you know, you're on, you got the squat bar on your back. >> Mhm. >> It's too much weight. >> Yeah. >> You flat out can't stand underneath it. >> But when you just allow another man specifically to get up under that bar, even if it's only for an hour, >> Yeah. I got it. >> You're allowing them to take some of that weight off. They can't take it off entirely. >> Totally. >> But they can help shoulder some of that burden. >> That's good. >> Because I mean that's the thing that I rail on when I get invited to go scream at guys in a men's conference or something like that. They're surprised that it's very, you know, lack of scream, but it's like this lone wolf thing. This I have a lone wolf on tattoo. I've got a lone wolf flag on the wall of of my man cave and all that. I was like, that's your aspirational identity, doofus. Watch Animal Planet. What happens to lone wolves? Even if they used to be alphas, >> they die alone. All of them. All of them, right? They starve to death. They freeze to death. They're killed by another animal. Sometimes they're killed by the younger people that they used to be the apex alpha of the pack that they were in. >> And that that's you. That's what you want to do. Like this western machismo. I got this thing. And I mean like I I can't rail against it hard enough. And it's like because the dark knight ofth soul is on its way. We are in the valley of shadow of death. We're either coming out of it or we're about to go into it. If you don't have dogs around you, like you're you're screwed. You're never going to get up. >> You know, I was thinking about Psalm 23 earlier when Joey was saying something about being afraid. The cool thing is when you you know, I walk through the valley of the shadow of death and I fear no evil. When you when you get so close to death in a shadow, like you can smell it, >> see it and feel it. And then you get through the valley to the other side, you're going to live with a lot less fear. I mean, at some point we were like, you want to take everything from me? I had no identity anymore. I had no identity as a husband, as a father. It completely changed as a pastor. I didn't even want it. And so, like, when everything's taken from you and you make it through, you're going to be a lot less afraid for a long time. >> Yeah. >> And so, walking through the valley of the shadow of death and getting to the other side, you don't have to live in fear. Like, I'm a lot less afraid than I used to be. >> Yeah. And then another trial will come and it'll test my fear and I'm like, "Ah, I still got some fear in me." >> I called Joey this year about something that made me real afraid, you know. And so, speaking of what you did, I I'm glad I have relationships that I'm building over the years cuz when it happens, >> I need to make a phone call. So, I call a couple of guys. Joey's one of them. And then he tells me something I need to hear. >> Yeah. >> And then I'm like, >> "Yeah, >> that helped me." And I I'm gonna I'm gonna put that bullet in my chamber and use it to do what I need to do. You know, >> Vinky, that's a stockpiling, right? I tell people all the time, you got to make deposits. >> That's good. >> In relationships. And you know, I think of what Chandler, you know, he was preaching his his congregation through something on how to deal with suffering and all of that. Boom. Brain tumor, cancer. He's going to die. Right. Well, he's been playing with house money for a long time now. Like super duper alive. >> Yeah. But it >> and less afraid. >> And less afraid, right? Cuz he was he was very acquainted with death and the porcelain and the floor around his toilet, right? You know what I mean? Like he's been very open about that. >> But you have these these men. If you're not making deposits in other people's lives, the only reason you can make that phone call >> That's right. >> is because you had made deposits into the relationship of this man. And guess what? [clears throat] Those deposits can be taken out by either man, right? Maybe he needed you in this situation. You needed him. But there is that relational equity there that doesn't get built by hanging out or going on golfing trips. >> Yeah. >> You talked about how God's going to use your scars and your story to encourage somebody else. So before we wrap up, could you share some specific ways that I mean you it happened tonight and you got up and shared it. God used your scars and your story to impact a lot of people. But what are some other ways? Because that's one of the things that you don't believe, right? You're on the floor. You don't believe how God ever going to use this? But how have you seen him use it? >> I don't think you have to believe it when you're on the floor. Think trying to get people to believe something when they're on the floor and they can't get up. I don't think that I don't think that's our goal. I do I do think when somebody gets up though and they take a shower and they start living, I think then you can start to, you know, deposit some truth into them. But I can tell you what, man. I can sit with people who are struggling. >> It doesn't matter what it is. I mean, if you feel deep pain, uh, it's a gift to sit with somebody else who's in deep pain. I can feel your deep pain. I don't need to know. It doesn't need to be just what I went through. When you feel deep pain that almost ended your life or wanted to end your life, when you feel pain that deep, you can sympathize with people who are going through any kind of pain. And so all I know is I want somebody who can sympathize with my pain. >> Even when you're really low, you know, I want somebody who cares and can understand it. And so it it only makes sense that one day you're going to be that for somebody else. So it just changes you. Like I had a guy tell me this year, really wise guy that some some of us would know, some of us do know. He said, 'L when you go through this fire, you're not going to need to hold on to any. You're not going to need to remember anything. He's like, you will just be a whole new version of yourself. >> It's like gold out of a fire. It doesn't need to do anything. It's just gold. When you get through this trial, you will just be a new version of yourself >> that you never knew before. And it'll affect people that you're with. >> It'll give you a whole new compassion, a whole new sensitivity. And so >> it will do that. Yeah. You mentioned 2 Corinthians. 2 Corinthians 1. Blessed be the God of all comfort who comforts us in our sufferings so that we could comfort others. I mean, >> that's right. >> That was >> and you know, you're surrounded by the right men or if you're a woman, surrounded by the right women. When they when they love you and when it's time to put their arm around you and cry with you, they can do that. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> And when it's time to get up and hear some hard things, they've got that for you too. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Yep. >> Um, will you just give a couple thoughts, Pastor Joby, about how the gapless gospel is a big God that is big enough for even our pain? >> I think you said it best, like when a lot of people were like, "Well, why would God allow suffering?" And uh, and basically what you're saying is you're not thinking about this, right? Mhm. >> What about a God that would suffer on your behalf? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like you don't think he knows? >> Mhm. >> He knows. I mean, what? Betrayal. He's betrayed. >> Mhm. >> Pain, like just physical pain. >> Crushed. Tormented by the devil. >> Mhm. >> Check. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> People stealing from you. Check. Like he's he didn't just suffer on the cross. M >> there's [clears throat] a lot of paining suffering that Dude, how about just just the fact that he would step out of heaven? >> Totally. >> Mhm. >> I mean, man, you know, I'm sitting on my couch real comfortable just watching sports and I've already shifted in my mind. I ain't leaving. You know what [laughter] I mean? >> I got to really love somebody to get up and go >> just out of my house and it ain't even that great. >> He got He stepped out of heaven. >> Wow. >> With like the chair been worshiping him. You know what I mean? >> To come get us. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's >> Yeah. That's beautiful. >> I love it. Well, thank you again, Pastor. People call you Shep. >> My friends do. You're my friend. >> Okay. Thank you, Shep today. >> Honor to be here. Thanks for the invite, Joby. Thanks for the trust. Thank you guys for the invite to the podcast. >> It's easy to trust the trustworthy, brother. You are an incredible handler of the word of God, and I appreciate your vulnerability. Mhm. >> I I appreciate you showing people your scars. And the beautiful thing about scars is >> one, you know, there was an injury, but then you can see the healing. >> That's good. >> And then people begin to say that's a part that's part of where hope comes from. They're like, >> "All right, well, >> if he can get through this thing. If the Lord didn't give up on him, maybe there's hope for me, too." >> That's good. Will you pray for us? >> Yeah, man. Absolutely. Jesus, thank you that you're our hope. Thank you that you're my hope. Thank you that you've walked me through things that I didn't have the strength for. Thank you walked each of us through things and be beyond that, you walked us past hell into heaven. Thank you for coming and being with us and walking with us. I pray for people who are hearing this or listen to this sermon and they're hopeless. I pray that they would put their hope not in their situation or their own strength or even in another person. I pray they put their hope in you. I pray they would know that you're good and you do good things and the resurrection proves to us that you can bring beautiful things out of horrible things. And uh if you can do that with death and sin, you can do that with our situation, too. It's >> true. >> Thank you for loving us. We love you back. You loved us first. Even while we were sinning against you, you died for us. So, I pray that we would know how much you love us. And I pray your blessings on this podcast and on this church and my church and every church is preaching the gospel and teaching the scriptures. We love you, Jesus. We pray this in the only name that gets us heard in heaven, your name. Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive fivestar review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undded.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook. And check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming. www.undaunted.life. The music on this podcast is the song Conqueror by the Christian metal band Void Awaken. Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [music]