0:00
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:24
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:26
Let's get into it.
0:27
All right.
0:28
Thank you, Derwin, for that message.
0:30
Lit up with love, baby.
0:31
Let's do it.
0:34
Let's go.
0:35
Jesus said that people would know we were His disciples because of our love.
0:44
But I bet if we went out in the streets of Duval and said, "What do you think about Christians?
0:52
Where do you think loving would be on the list of responses?"
0:56
Anti?
0:57
Yeah, right.
0:58
Probably not on the list, so why?
1:01
If that's the thing that He said, why does it seem to be what most people think of when
1:06
they think of Christians?
1:07
So your sermon was the parable of the Good Samaritan.
1:13
And I'm sad to say, as a person that's worked in church for 31 years and passed with this
1:17
one for almost 13, that the mindset of most church people is the same mindset as that of
1:25
the Pharisees that ask the question and ultimately when Jesus said, "Love your neighbor."
1:31
And they ask the questions of, "All right, help me narrow this to who?"
1:38
And Jesus expands this to be loving.
1:42
And there's just a bunch of church people for all kinds of reasons.
1:46
It's like, you know, the way they were brought up, whatever news channel they've decided
1:52
to hitch their mental wagon to, whatever the reasons are, the gospel has not flooded and
2:00
washed away all of that fleshly filth.
2:05
And so their primary filter is not how Jesus loved me.
2:10
Oftentimes our primary filter is, "All right, well, who exactly do I have to love?"
2:15
Yeah.
2:16
You know, it's interesting that, so people haven't changed very much.
2:26
Sin is still an issue, right?
2:29
Yeah, very much so.
2:30
But when you think of the story of the good Samaritan, you have a religious scholar and
2:36
he's Jewish.
2:37
His background as a Jew would have been traumatic historically.
2:45
His ancestors were enslaved by Egyptians and a can of his his Babylonians, Romans, right?
2:52
So the Jewish people had to circle the wagons, so to speak.
2:59
However, the Pharisee, the religious scholar, knew that to love your neighbors, you love
3:05
yourself is Leviticus 19, 9 through 19.
3:09
And that's all about loving the immigrant, the foreigner, the Gentile.
3:14
So sometimes what we do is we allow historical pain to keep us stuck in the past.
3:22
And we don't have the ability to live in the presence.
3:25
So that's what one too is, it takes a lot of faith to actually believe if I love, are
3:35
they going to hurt me again?
3:37
So as a black pastor of a multi-ethnic church that's probably 58% white and 42% everything
3:46
else, a lot of my black pastor friends will say, man, like, how do you trust them?
3:50
I'm like, well, who is, like, who's the them?
3:52
He goes, you know what I mean?
3:54
And I'm like, so this is what it comes down to.
3:58
I can either be afraid to love because I may be hurt while loving or I can live in hurt
4:06
and still be hurt by not trying to love.
4:09
Love takes courage because when I love, I open my heart to be hurt.
4:13
So if I can't be hurt, I'm truly not loving.
4:17
But by the way, isn't that what the cross is?
4:20
And so it takes that type of love to be able to break these things down.
4:24
But this isn't generated within us.
4:26
It's the Holy Spirit's power, but it takes faith to go, Jesus, if you really died and
4:32
you really rose again, then your life in me has to give me this faith to love this way.
4:40
So is that what you're getting at?
4:41
When you use the word unreasonable, which stood out to me tonight, like when people
4:45
are looking at the love that you're showing to people that it needs to, I don't know if
4:49
you said seem or feel unreasonable, is that kind of what you were getting at?
4:52
Yeah, yeah.
4:53
I was years ago, I was preaching at a church planters thing in Oklahoma.
4:59
And so I went to the restroom and as I was leaving, I noticed an older white pastor staring
5:11
at me.
5:12
So I'm like, okay, when the restroom, my guy is kind of strange.
5:16
And then tears were in his eyes and he was probably 60.
5:20
And he said, pastor, I need to apologize you.
5:23
And I'm like, we've never met.
5:25
He goes, he goes, I was reading one of your books.
5:29
And then I read that you were black and I got a fit-fended by it.
5:35
And he goes, I told my wife that she says, you need to repent to God and you need to
5:39
repent to that man because it's wrong.
5:42
So we're in the restroom and he's sharing his story.
5:45
And I look at him and I said, who am I not to forgive you when Christ has forgiven me?
5:51
And so we're hugging in the bathroom.
5:53
Now if you didn't know the context, that could be really strange.
5:58
But in the corridors of heaven, it was praise.
6:02
And that's what I mean by unreasonable love.
6:04
And then also I have a choice to get offended.
6:09
Either the righteousness of Christ, purchased by the blood of Christ, is my defense or it's
6:14
not.
6:15
Why should I give someone the power to wield over me with their ignorance?
6:21
Now, I haven't done that all the time though.
6:25
There was a time, and this was right in the middle of the George Floyd stuff, and I was
6:29
leaving the coffee shop and I was at a stoplight.
6:34
And some white dudes drove by, you know, the big truck and flag and everything.
6:39
And I heard the N word, typically I just pray and let it go.
6:43
But the next thing I knew, man, I was flying down the street.
6:47
I mean, I'm like one of them NASCAR dudes and I am mad.
6:53
And when I pull up to him, I see they're probably 23, 24, and they are just shaking in their
6:59
boots.
7:00
Of course.
7:01
Look at you.
7:02
And immediately when I saw the terror in there, when I saw the terror in their eyes,
7:08
I repented.
7:09
I said, Lord, I'm sorry that I allowed them to draw me into their circle of hate.
7:17
I should have prayed them into your grace instead of allowing that to pull me down.
7:24
I should have prayed to lift them up, right?
7:26
So I pulled over to the side of the road pastor and I just started crying like, why did I
7:32
allow them to do that?
7:35
And so I don't do it perfectly.
7:36
But at the end of the day, I have a choice to be offended or walk as Jesus is my defense.
7:42
And what I have found when I walk in Jesus as my defense, more bridges are built and
7:47
a multi-ethnic church is flourishing.
7:49
Yeah.
7:50
Matt Chandler was here last night and I'm stealing this from him.
7:56
But in, in reference to the season that we're in with political divide and, and all the
8:03
things, man, the George Floyd, just everything that you've seen on the news for the last
8:08
bunch of years, right?
8:11
I want to echo what he says.
8:12
He says, church, we were made for this.
8:15
We were made for this.
8:17
If the love of the church is ever going to change a culture, then the darker the night,
8:22
the brighter the light of the gospel shots, we should be sticking out.
8:26
We should be so counter-cultural, so upside down, so like, help me understand.
8:32
Like somebody could walk into any of our campuses and be like, wait a minute, there's all kind
8:37
of different people here.
8:39
Help me understand how they're getting along, but everybody on TV is telling me, we can't,
8:43
something's different here.
8:45
The church was made for a moment like this.
8:47
Dude, the church took off in Rome against, I mean, all kind of hell on earth and the church
8:55
was different.
8:56
They had a different sexual ethic.
8:58
There was no racism.
8:59
I mean, in the early church, a part of what blew all the Romans away is they have a common
9:06
table and no common bed.
9:08
Yeah.
9:09
They couldn't understand why.
9:10
They would look at the table of the Christian and there was all thoseites you were talking
9:14
about, right?
9:16
Everybody's there, but then they had a sexual ethic.
9:19
They took care of poor and sick.
9:21
They were fighting for the lives of babies that were being abandoned and it was love that
9:27
toppled Rome, not the sword.
9:30
You said one of the things stood out and I for an eye makes everybody blind, but we have
9:36
open eyes.
9:37
Yeah, that's right.
9:38
Exactly what you're talking about.
9:39
So I stole something from, I think Gandhi took that from the Old Testament, Jesus opened
9:44
our eyes and then I put some Derwin-Grace also on it.
9:47
That's it.
9:48
But I think why our eyes are not open is because we are choosing lesser gods and the reality
9:58
is most churches are not like your church or our church, a transmission church where Jesus
10:05
is preeminent.
10:08
And so when you preach a self-help gospel, when you preach a moralism, when you do those
10:15
things, people go after lesser gods.
10:19
So part of preaching and leading is for people to behold the magnificence of Jesus.
10:27
And yes, civil government is a gift from God.
10:31
Civil government is important.
10:33
I'm thankful for laws that allow women to vote for people like me to be free.
10:38
I mean, I'm thankful.
10:40
Those are important things.
10:42
But when we make those things, ultimate things, that's when division and darkness gets into
10:50
it.
10:51
And so as Christians, we should be civically responsible because our allegiance is to a
10:56
greater kingdom.
10:58
That doesn't mean we don't vote.
11:00
What it means is when we vote, we have a greater allegiance to Jesus and we love people who
11:06
vote differently than us.
11:08
Amen.
11:09
I love what you said about, well, my version is you're never going to hate somebody into
11:13
the kingdom.
11:14
You're never going to mean somebody into the kingdom.
11:17
It's actually really hard to win your enemies.
11:19
You win them to friendship before you win them to cry.
11:21
I mean, that's typically how it goes.
11:24
There may be an exception or two out there, but it really is, right?
11:27
It is that love and kindness that compel people to repentance towards God.
11:33
Well, even what you said in the middle of it, where you're talking about, it wasn't the
11:37
three nails that were holding Jesus to the cross.
11:40
It was his love for us.
11:41
I was holding Jesus to the cross.
11:42
And so when you think about the, you think, I mean, that's so theologically rich, but it
11:48
goes back to what you're saying about the certain types of churches.
11:50
So if you have this kind of moral therapeutic deism where it's like, okay, let's just get
11:53
some, let's fix some of our foibles as a person so that we're more presentable to apply culture.
11:59
That's one thing.
12:00
But when you think about the true love of Christ, it's not that you're not as worried
12:04
about those lesser gods, but you're not going to elevate them as easily.
12:07
And so you may have made a little G God out of social justice or cultural justice or advocacy
12:14
of some kind or hitting the pavement for whatever your thing is, right?
12:18
Or for whoever your candidate is, but you will leave those things in the correct space because
12:23
on the other side, you've got the Benedict option, right?
12:25
You have those people that are like, you know what, we're going to be Christians.
12:29
We're not going to be, you know, we're not going to be part of this culture war thing.
12:32
We're not going to be entered into any of the stuff.
12:34
We're going to just, you know, be out here and we're not going to be salt that preserves.
12:38
We're not going to be salt that does anything actually.
12:40
And so I think, I mean, it's a compliment I overheard you getting while, you know, right
12:45
after you got done preaching, which is like, you have to keep the main things, the main
12:49
things and so many people think that Jesus in and of itself in the study, the deep study
12:54
of the gospel isn't enough to be the main thing.
12:57
And what's so beautiful is when you look at Jesus when he says, okay, the law and the
13:03
prophets is summed up in this, love God with all your heart, my soul and strength, love
13:07
your neighbor as you love yourself.
13:10
If I love my neighbors, I love myself, I'm not only going to feed them the bread of life,
13:16
I'm going to feed them physical bread.
13:18
And I'm not only going to tell them about the mansions and the new heavens and the earth,
13:22
I'm going to help with housing in those things.
13:25
When you try to have justice without Jesus, what you get in return is vengeance.
13:32
Jesus is the embodiment of God's righteousness.
13:35
Justice means shalom, right relationships, broken relationships are made right.
13:41
And so there is no dichotomy, so, and I know that you guys do these things here at 1122.
13:47
So some of the things that we do from last year, we paid off $12.8 million of medical
13:55
insurance debt.
13:57
We have a free grocery store, we feed 500 people per month and many other things.
14:04
But if we were just to feed people bread but not give them the bread of life, that's not
14:09
true gospel.
14:10
Gospels proclaim, gospel is demonstrated as well, but I think when it comes down to it,
14:19
is if Jesus is not presented as he truly is, we are going to lust after other things to
14:26
find fulfillment.
14:28
Yeah, it's the, it's unbelievable how, in my mind at least, it's unbelievable how churches
14:34
have fallen to the tyranny of the oar, like either it's gospel doctrine or it's justice.
14:42
And you're like, hold on, wait a second, bullet down this simple.
14:45
There's a lot of churches that say, either it's grace or it's truth.
14:49
And we're a grace church, and we're going to feed people, but we're not going to tell
14:53
them that they're sinners and need to repent.
14:55
We're not going to do that.
14:56
Or they're like, we're a truth church.
14:58
And they don't care about anybody.
15:00
Like they, they just ripped Matthew 25, or let's just don't look at Matthew 25.
15:04
I mean, who's he talking to, right?
15:06
And you're like, you dummy, the whole thing is he came full of grace and truth, and there's
15:11
no more full than full.
15:13
And so it's so, I mean, you know, me and you got a bunch of buddies that run a bunch of
15:17
churches like ours that we have not fallen to the tyranny of the oar, it's the genius
15:22
of the gospel and of course, because God loves us, we love our neighbor.
15:29
And because we love our neighbor, we share the gospel truth.
15:34
And we share the gospel grace, which is not just eternally speaking and doctrinally speaking.
15:40
It's also physically speaking.
15:42
Again, see Matthew chapter 25, I mean, you know, the exam to get to heaven is not a theological
15:49
one.
15:50
I mean, that the, the, the evidence of your salvation is because you know Jesus and he
15:57
knows you when you see image bearers of God in need, you think gospel will wait a minute.
16:04
What did God do when he saw me in need, which is so glad you close the, I mean, I knew you're
16:10
going to do a bit.
16:11
I was so glad you closed the sermon the way you did the point of the Good Samaritan is
16:15
not going to be a good Samaritan.
16:17
The point of the Good Samaritan is you were beaten down, broken, naked, lifted, and Jesus
16:22
came on a rescue mission for you.
16:24
And because of that, now that's what fuels you to go and do.
16:30
And that's the, your church does both.
16:32
Our church does both.
16:34
Everybody that we bring here for saturated does both.
16:37
It's not an either or thing.
16:38
Well, you can't give away what you don't possess, right?
16:41
And so one of my, one of my passions is I want to see every pulpit in America ablaze
16:48
with a high and lofty view of Jesus, the beauty of the gospel.
16:54
The gospel is not just how sinners get saved.
16:56
It's how saints are edified and ultimately glorified.
17:00
It's how bellies that are hungry are fed.
17:02
It's how orphans are given homes.
17:04
It's how a human sex trafficking is the bunk.
17:08
It's how police officers and first responders and all of life becomes an opportunity to
17:14
be agents and ambassadors of the kingdom of God, but it starts with as simple as this.
17:22
How can Jesus love a person like me?
17:26
Like I've known the Lord since August 2nd, 1997, and I can never get over the fact that
17:35
I didn't call him.
17:37
He had been calling me and that he loved me when I didn't know what love was.
17:44
It was unearned.
17:46
It was unachievable.
17:48
He met me in my mess.
17:50
How can I not want that to influence and shape every part of my life?
17:56
And you had achieved all the world says is the best, right?
18:00
I mean, playing in the NFL.
18:02
Yeah.
18:03
Good contract.
18:04
Yeah.
18:05
I mean, you had the things.
18:06
Oh, man.
18:07
Shame right.
18:08
And athleticism.
18:09
Yeah.
18:10
I was young.
18:11
Yeah.
18:12
I was young.
18:13
You know, the Fresh Prince from Bel Air, I was a Fresh Prince from San Antonio.
18:18
Yeah.
18:19
You know, I made it to the league, had some money, you know, wife.
18:22
I mean, the Lex is everything, but ultimately, so like things aren't bad, right?
18:26
But things become bad when you think they're ultimate, when you think that they're ultimately
18:30
going to satisfy you.
18:31
And so despite those things, I still couldn't get over the fact that my father wasn't in
18:39
my life.
18:40
I couldn't get over the fact of certain traumas and abuses I experienced.
18:43
I couldn't forgive myself and I do not love my wife.
18:48
And probably the biggest one at that time was I live with such anxiety.
18:54
Who would I be if I didn't play anymore?
18:59
Because the NFL defined me and you guys have been around and you have NFL friends.
19:03
It's NFL stands for not for long.
19:09
And every guy knows that they're on a pitch count.
19:11
They know they're on a clock and a lot of us struggle when we're done playing because
19:16
you go from people cheering your name to working for the guy who used to cheer your name.
19:21
And when you've been told you're great since middle school and all of a sudden you're like,
19:26
man.
19:27
And so that's why having a deep rootedness in Christ that he is my enough, that he is
19:33
my my life, that's allowed me to be able to be healthy as a husband, as a father and
19:39
ultimately as a pastor.
19:40
Well, Darren, one of the first things you said, I mean, this may have been like the third
19:43
sentence out of your mouth tonight.
19:44
It was what you do in life is not your purpose.
19:46
It's the vehicle for your purpose.
19:48
Yes.
19:49
I mean, I've heard I've heard that sentiment kind of, you know, echoed clunkly throughout
19:55
the years, but that's probably the most succinct way that I've heard it because, you know, you'll
19:59
get someone that's working, you know, a job that maybe they don't feel fulfilled in or
20:02
maybe it's beneath them or they think it's beneath them or something like that.
20:05
And you'll hear, you know, a pastor or some sort of like spiritual guru tell them, you
20:09
know, try to talk to them about their placement, but they don't really see where they're at
20:13
as a vehicle.
20:14
They don't really see it as their mission field.
20:16
And I think it goes back to what you were talking about a little bit earlier.
20:18
And I want to have you dig in just a little bit more on is making sure that we can think
20:22
rightly about Jesus because if we're to think highly about Jesus, we need to think rightly
20:27
about Jesus.
20:28
And you were talking about seeing Jesus as he truly is.
20:32
This is something I've railed on for a while.
20:34
Everyone talks about Lamb of God.
20:35
They don't want to talk about lying to Judah, lying to Judah, a little scary, a little bit,
20:38
you know, you know, how are we going to deal with this?
20:40
But you don't understand Jesus unless you understand both.
20:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:43
You know, so, so I think as I read between the lines, I think what I hear you saying is Jesus,
20:50
and I heard you say this, dude, I have so stolen this, by the way, preach is so good.
20:54
You're going to, you're going to meet Jesus as Savior or judge.
20:58
That's it.
20:59
I think what people have to understand is God's justice against sin is his love.
21:06
Amen.
21:07
That's right.
21:08
God is not like living on these different poles, like God in his infinite essence cannot
21:16
be divided.
21:18
So his love and justice are the same.
21:20
So imagine walking down the street in the wind is blowing against your face.
21:25
You say the wind is blowing against my face.
21:26
If I turn around and the wind is blowing against my back, who changed?
21:30
The wind didn't change.
21:31
You changed.
21:33
And so justice says sin must be dealt with.
21:38
Love says I will deal with sin.
21:41
And in response to the spirit of God, we get to choose.
21:44
So if God was not just against sin, his love wouldn't mean anything.
21:49
If God was not holy, his grace wouldn't mean anything, and I think one of the reasons why
21:57
followers of Jesus don't appreciate and are not blown away by the magnitude of God's grace
22:03
is because we have a shrink wrapped Jesus.
22:07
Like we don't talk about the otherness of God, the holiness of God.
22:12
Jesus, and please hear my heartness, Jesus is not just useful.
22:17
He's beautiful.
22:18
A Jesus that is simply useful, you don't worship.
22:23
You use.
22:24
Like we want to be stunned by him.
22:26
We want to be in awe of him.
22:29
You only follow the one that you have reverence for.
22:33
And then built into reverence is love as well.
22:36
Like holiness is love.
22:39
His otherness is he's pure love for God is love.
22:42
And let me say this thing is important because love is Jesus looking at Peter saying, get
22:48
behind me Satan.
22:50
Five verses earlier, he told him, Simon, dude, you know I'm the Messiah and only my father
22:56
will build that to you.
22:57
Five verses later, he's like, dude, get behind me Satan, you know what I'm saying?
23:01
So love looks like the cross.
23:03
It's bloody and it's life giving.
23:06
It's forgiving.
23:08
It's justice making.
23:10
Wrath poured out, mercy given.
23:14
Yeah, I talk to our church all the time about the cross.
23:17
If you could look at the two vertical beams that, I mean the two beams that make up the
23:20
cross, that vertical beam when you look at it, that is the justice of God being poured
23:26
out on sin and simultaneously the horizontal beam represents the love of Christ and his
23:32
blood is poured out for you.
23:36
These things are fulfilled in the cross of Jesus Romans three, man, that because God is
23:42
just, I'll say it must be paid for because God is merciful.
23:47
He delays the payment.
23:48
It's how any of us are sitting here and because he is gracious, he is the just and the justifier.
23:55
He makes the payment on our behalf.
23:56
What you just said is really hard for a lot of people to understand like so God reveals
24:02
himself at God is love as a scripture that many people know.
24:07
John 3 16, God so loved the world, but the prevailing cultural understanding of love is
24:11
that you don't push back on me, or you don't challenge me.
24:14
So the misunderstanding of the word love inside of culture confuses a lot of people because
24:19
they will how don't you love, I thought you're going to love me.
24:22
Don't you know what I'm doing is wrong.
24:24
So I clear that up for the cast.
24:26
Yeah.
24:27
Yeah.
24:28
You know, so I've noticed that just like you've noticed that in in your church and your context
24:32
is a lot of times people think that love is you let me do what I want to do.
24:38
Love is you agree with everything I agree with.
24:41
And so what I've learned to do is number one, not panic, because God saves.
24:46
I don't.
24:47
There you go.
24:48
What I've learned to do is to ask questions and say, okay, so if I agree with everything
24:54
you do, that means I love you.
24:56
Correct.
24:57
Well, you don't agree with me, not agreeing with you.
24:59
So doesn't mean you don't love me, you know, you know, and then you know, as a degree in
25:04
apologetics by the way, and so people are like, okay, and then the other thing too is
25:12
I say, you know, because I love my children, when they ran out in the street, I aggressively
25:18
pulled them back because I don't want them to get run over because I love them.
25:22
There's no match for a car, brother, sister, you are no match for the one who came to kill
25:29
still and destroy.
25:31
You are no match.
25:33
He will use you and abuse you and keep you hostage longer than you want to stay.
25:39
And you cannot pay your way out.
25:41
But I know one who's come to do so.
25:44
And so I think people need to see that we're inviting them into abundant life, like, like
25:51
God isn't a killjoy, like being hung over is not fun.
25:58
Even abusing relationships and using people is not fun.
26:03
What's fun is purpose and that purpose is to be loved by God and to give that love away
26:09
and all of life becomes God's playground to do that.
26:13
When people do know that you do love them, even if they disagree with you, their defensiveness
26:21
are totally different.
26:22
So listen, so like, this is why I think, I mean, you're so effective.
26:26
It's part of the reason I brought you here.
26:28
I mean, I preach with you, you know, all the conferences we do, that's kind of how these
26:32
things work.
26:33
You end up at the conferences and you're all in the same sense.
26:35
And we were a lot younger back, tell me about it.
26:38
But here's the thing.
26:39
You had just preached a whole sermon about how to love people.
26:42
So as you're calling out sin, people might disagree with what your assessment of sin
26:47
is because they got blinders on, right?
26:51
But they can't argue that that guy up there telling me what I'm doing is wrong.
26:55
You can't argue that he doesn't love me.
26:57
The whole point of the sermon was love people that are different than you, that do different
27:01
than you, that vote different than you, that look different than you.
27:04
What I have found, as I don't know how this happens, but it seems to me that this thing
27:11
I have in my heart for our people, when I'm praying for them, when I'm in the woods on
27:16
money, write my sermon, begging God to move and change lives, somehow it comes through.
27:21
I find myself like you, a pretty aggressive preacher, and yet, people that are living
27:26
lifestyles completely outside of my understanding of what it looks like to be in the footsteps
27:32
of Jesus, somehow still feel loved and wanted here at this church.
27:38
Amen.
27:39
And they'll tell you.
27:40
Yeah, yeah.
27:41
They'll tell you.
27:42
I know you love me.
27:43
100%.
27:44
And I will immediately tell them, listen, we live in a world that's going to try to lie
27:47
to you and tell you that mean you can't be friends, because of something that you're
27:51
doing or feeling or have identified as.
27:54
Don't you believe that, La?
27:55
Mm-hmm.
27:56
I don't care who you are.
27:57
This place is a movement for all people.
27:59
Yeah.
28:00
Mm-hmm.
28:01
You said also tonight that the way that you label the person is either going to limit
28:06
your ability to love them or launch you or catapult you to be able to love them.
28:12
So who is that?
28:14
Who's that for you?
28:15
Who's the label for it?
28:17
It's hard to love.
28:18
Yeah.
28:19
And can we park there?
28:21
Yeah.
28:22
I think that's really important, right?
28:24
So when we label someone, Imagebearer of the Living God, that's different than going,
28:32
"Oh, they're Maga.
28:34
They're Democrat.
28:36
They're Mexican.
28:37
They're white.
28:39
They're black.
28:40
They're Haitian.
28:42
And we give these labels right now, ethnicity matters because God created them.
28:46
It was a gift.
28:47
It is a gift.
28:49
But we look at the person.
28:52
We said, "Transmitage church.
28:54
Treat everybody like Jesus died for them because he did."
28:57
So good.
28:58
And so my label for you is someone loved by God.
29:02
So this was when we were in our old warehouse.
29:05
We had this little 200-seat warehouse and it was just junky and we were just preaching
29:10
the gospel and a guy after service, a white dude runs up.
29:15
This is before I had security and stuff.
29:17
So I'm thinking to myself, I'm shaking hands with my left hand and something.
29:21
When he gets close, I can dip, put my hips into it, knock him out with my left and just
29:26
continue.
29:27
As he gets closer, there's snot dangling this white dude, probably 34.
29:31
Snots everywhere.
29:32
And before I know it, he's on me.
29:34
I don't know where the snot went, probably went on me, but we don't want to discuss that.
29:38
So he hugs me and he's just weeping, he's just balling and he goes, "I can't believe
29:44
I'm in church and I can't believe you're black.
29:47
I don't even like black people, but I want to know Jesus.
29:51
Will you teach me about Jesus?"
29:54
I want to know him.
29:56
So his girlfriend, who was a former addict, spent time in prison, met him, addict, he spent
30:04
time in prison.
30:06
He comes to our church, gets saved, witnesses him to him for a year, he finally comes and
30:11
he's like, "I don't want to go.
30:12
This blankety blank inward, this and that and that and man, Jesus got a hold to him."
30:17
That dude ends up getting baptized.
30:21
They begin to serve at our church and then she comes to me a few months ago by, she goes
30:25
"Pastor, we need to get married.
30:28
My dad disowned me at 16.
30:30
Will you walk me down the aisle?"
30:33
So the wedding comes up, we're in our little junkie warehouse.
30:37
I mean, it is a country white ghetto wedding.
30:41
She's got on cowgirl boots, Wranglers, bro, Wranglers.
30:46
She's got like this white halter top on with her bob wire tad.
30:49
He's got on some cheap suit and man, I'm walking him down the aisle to his bride.
30:55
He's crying.
30:56
So we get to her and then I go behind the pulpit and I go, "Who gives this woman away?
31:00
I come back and say, I do," and then I perform the wedding.
31:06
And as I look at that, I think the wedding feast of the lamb where God breaks down all
31:13
these barriers and brings everybody together.
31:16
And so at the end of the day, the power of the Holy Spirit can break down any barriers
31:24
in the human heart.
31:26
And it takes prayer and it takes fasting, that doesn't make God work more.
31:31
That's for us to be in tune with the rhythm of His grace.
31:34
Here's what I thought about immediately when you said the label can limit or launch into
31:40
love.
31:41
Think about the mission trip mindset versus the like scarcity mindset, okay, think about
31:49
this.
31:50
I haven't fully thought this out, so give me some serious grace here, okay.
31:54
And some person has the scarcity, fearful mindset and sees a group of people and they're like,
32:00
they're different than me.
32:02
I'm scared, let you know, okay.
32:06
But when you go on a mission trip, you're like, these people are different than me.
32:09
This is who I came to serve.
32:11
Like it immediately triggers the Jesus.
32:14
You know what I mean?
32:15
Like, okay, here's the point.
32:16
Like here's why I studied, here's why I raised the money, here's why I got on the plane.
32:20
There they are.
32:21
And it's like, you know what I mean, versus like you look around your, all the Americans
32:25
you're with and you're like, you don't have that same sort of propensity to say, because
32:31
man, I'm just telling you, you wake up and you go on a mission trip and you do what Jesus
32:37
said to do in John 13 and dress yourself as a servant and you realize you're the blessed
32:42
one.
32:43
And okay, so what's the difference?
32:44
The difference is exactly what you said, man.
32:48
It's my mentality and I'm trying, like I'm allowing this spirit of fear to do a thing
32:55
or a spirit of pride or whatever that thing is that is not from Jesus versus when you're
33:00
all Jesus up, because you know, you're trying to be a missionary and an ambassador for him.
33:05
Well, and I think that's why every believer must see themselves as an everyday missionary.
33:13
Yeah, 100%.
33:14
The father sent the son, the father and the son send the spirit and now the father, son
33:18
and spirit send us and they give us the nutrients of life to be able to go into the world.
33:28
But that once again comes from getting acquainted with Jesus, like we need more Jesus, not less.
33:35
We need more of him to see him, how he talked, how he walked, how he engaged, what he did
33:44
and how he did it, even the people he picked.
33:47
I mean, think about it, like if I'm picking a team, I'm so not picking Judas.
33:54
That's right.
33:55
I'm not picking him, but Jesus watched Judas feet knowing he's going to betray him.
34:00
I'm also not putting a tax collector that works from Rome, with Simon's nizelle who wants
34:04
to kill them all.
34:06
They're all he's like, all right, same team guys, I mean, you want to talk about getting
34:09
guys from the different sides of the aisle there and put them all on one team and saying,
34:13
hey, I'm bigger than all of these differences.
34:16
So Durham and I actually talked to a lot of men who kind of came from where I came from,
34:21
which was they didn't grow up in church, but since I grew up in Oklahoma, I call country
34:24
music theology like, you know, you listen to country music, your grandma went to church,
34:29
your baptize as a kid and you vote Republican occasionally.
34:31
So you're going to go to heaven because God likes all those things.
34:34
But the problem is, is we get this caricatured view of who Jesus of Nazareth was even as a
34:40
historical figure, much less how he's described in the gospels.
34:44
And I can't, I think you said something along the lines of it tonight, but maybe as a, um,
34:51
as something that could help the people in the audience slow down as they're reading
34:55
scripture so that they're reading, reading specifically the gospels and actually gathering
35:01
who Jesus is because it's one thing to just buzz through one of the gospel accounts of
35:05
his life and just, you know, Jesus comes off as like this robotic guy that just did some
35:09
cool things as opposed to slowing down long enough to understand the emotion and all the
35:15
context that that was there.
35:16
Well, yeah, and, and, and, and, and here's what's incredibly beautiful about him, right?
35:22
So the Old Testament talks about the one who was the come, the suffering servant, the,
35:28
the Messiah.
35:29
And when you look at his story, born to the Virgin Mary in Bethlehem prophesied in Micah
35:36
5 2, um, grown up in Nazareth, fill up the one of the 12 disciples, can anything good
35:44
come out of Nazareth?
35:46
Like, like Jesus was not the likely candidate to be the chamashia.
35:53
And so he can relate to us.
35:56
Like he knows what it, what it means to live under the boot of an empire.
36:02
So grown up as a little boy, um, up in Nazareth, there was a lot of Gentile towns.
36:08
Jesus would have been familiar with seeing Jewish men on crosses as he, as he went to
36:14
school and as he went to work with his dad, like he would have seen the power of Rome
36:19
and would have known that that was his destiny, right?
36:22
And so when you look at him, even at 12, he goes into the temple and the scholars are
36:26
like, man, who is this dude here, this kid?
36:30
By the way, he was lost from Mary and Joseph, it was like a couple of days.
36:34
That's wild.
36:35
It's not, it's not, it's not like helicopter parenting, but, but, but when, when we follow
36:41
him, if you want to know what God looks like, look at Jesus because he's the human face
36:48
of what Yahweh is, he's the image of the invisible God and he's beautiful.
36:53
And when we get to the point that his beauty is enough, man, we are so lit up with love,
37:02
we are, we're just dazzled by him and the fruit of the spirit, the gifts of the spirit
37:07
begin to come out of us for the glory of God.
37:11
Some I want you to talk a little bit more about, not, it was incredibly clear, I try
37:17
to talk about it as much as I can.
37:18
It's a, it's crazy to me how many church people just can't get this in their mind.
37:23
There's a Pew research poll that says it's almost 60% of evangelical church attending
37:31
Christians will say that their right activity plays a key role in them getting to go to
37:36
heaven.
37:37
Okay.
37:38
So you said it, I think he said it three times.
37:39
You said quit trying to fix you, quit trying to fix you, quit trying to fix you.
37:45
I know one who can.
37:47
So when, when people hear that, and I don't know, some people hear, well, you, you're
37:51
saying, am I, am I not supposed to try to do good things with just, you know, I could
37:56
preach it too.
37:57
I just want you to, cause I, for whatever reason, there might be somebody that was sitting
38:01
in there tonight or watching online, but somehow the third time they hear it, maybe
38:06
it'll make sense.
38:07
But we don't want them to hear it.
38:08
Just let go and let go.
38:09
No, no, no.
38:10
Jesus said, dude, I want you to unpack good.
38:15
Tell, tell us what you mean when you say quit trying to fix you.
38:18
Yeah, so, so, so one of the, one of the illustrations that I share with our church is this, the
38:25
way we're conditioned as human beings, because our first parents, Adam and Eve said, you
38:32
know what God, we want to do it our way.
38:35
When they did that, they launched us into this performance based living of approval.
38:42
So basically we're all born thinking that life is a test that we have to take.
38:49
And we have to score a certain percentage or higher than someone else.
38:54
And what I say to people is this, particularly at our church, said it to them last last last
38:59
year, if you're Gen X, and if you're not, when we were in school, we had these number
39:05
two pencils and we had paper, God tore up your number two pencil and he threw your
39:12
paper away because he says, you can't score high enough.
39:17
But my son came to earth and for 33 years, he took the exam of life and he passed it
39:25
for you and by faith in him, his test score, which is God made him who knew no sin, becomes
39:35
sin that we might become the righteousness of God is given to you as a gift.
39:40
He put into your Venmo account the perfect righteousness of God.
39:46
You cannot achieve it.
39:47
It's so great.
39:48
You can only believe it.
39:51
He took the test.
39:52
His score is your score.
39:54
But we don't believe that.
39:56
That's part of the issue is we just can't get there.
39:59
And it's what you say.
40:00
Well, hold on, hold on, hold on.
40:01
So I can tell you lift weights, you lift weights and I mean, you definitely lift weights
40:05
over here.
40:06
I can tell you be throwing up some iron, right?
40:09
So when you lift weights and you get to the point to where you can't go anymore and those
40:15
muscle, you know, that's when you grow, oftentimes we cannot receive God's grace because we haven't
40:23
been crushed, my life and dark powers enough.
40:27
Let's go.
40:28
God ultimately will allow us to be crushed a part of my crushing, my third year in NFL
40:35
nominated for the Pro Bowl team captain.
40:39
The next year I get hurt, I never get hurt.
40:43
The next year I get hurt.
40:45
I never get hurt.
40:46
The next year I'm hurt again.
40:50
And amidst to me being hurt, I'm recognizing that this body ain't going to be 25 my whole
40:58
life.
40:59
And I'm recognizing who am I without playing?
41:03
Who will I be?
41:04
And someone was telling me, I can tell you who you can be.
41:08
You can be a new creation.
41:10
Your life isn't planned on this field.
41:14
God has something more for you.
41:17
Matter of fact, he wants to give you an eternal contract and he signed it with his blood and
41:23
he traded a son to draft you on his team and you're a first-round pick.
41:27
Well, that's what you said though, a lot of us think, I need to get cleaned up before
41:31
I come to church and I forget exactly like you said it, but it's like, no, you're going
41:34
to be cleaned by blood and you need a blood bath.
41:38
Come with your dirty clothes.
41:41
Come with your dirty clothes because that's all you got.
41:43
Yeah, but we think again, we think we have to do something a little bit different because
41:47
we can like tilt the score in our favor and you know, come a little bit cleaner than some
41:51
of our other things.
41:52
Well, I mean, you know, I, you know, so my life, my wife is from Montana, my daughter
41:57
lives in Montana.
42:00
For those of you who don't know, I grew up in Texas.
42:02
So I actually wore cowboy boots senior year in high school.
42:06
Bro, I have a pair at the house.
42:09
So you know, I'm from Texas, I rock some cowboy boots.
42:13
Here's the thing, like a horse has to be broken before it can be ridden, right?
42:20
And a lot of times we have to be broken before we know our need for grace.
42:25
God only pours grace into a broken heart.
42:28
Jesus, the first words of his kingdom, launching sermon, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs
42:35
is a kingdom of heaven.
42:38
And for the men that are listening like, man, would you, would you try to make me weak?
42:42
No, brother, I'm trying to make you more powerful than you ever thought you will be because your
42:46
power is puny compared to God's power that is made strong in your weakness.
42:52
And that's what weakness is, right?
42:54
Yeah, it's interesting.
42:55
Same thing.
42:56
It's interesting.
42:57
You pick the horse reference because, you know, blessed to the poor in spirit is basically
43:02
blessed are you when you realize I'm spiritually bankrupt and I ain't got this because the kingdom
43:06
of God is at hand.
43:07
You're that close to getting saved.
43:09
Then blessed are the meek and meek isn't weak.
43:13
In Greek, I know it's a lot of eek say, I'm like Eminem, it is, it is a bit bridal horse
43:20
is what the Greek word means.
43:22
If you look at the physiology of a broken horse, they're stronger, more powerful, live
43:27
longer can go farther.
43:29
Everything's better.
43:31
In essence, meekness is to turn over the reins, all right, Jesus, I'm not going to be the
43:37
boss of me anymore.
43:39
You are.
43:40
All right.
43:41
I got another question.
43:43
We all are in a performance trap.
43:45
I mean, you know, if you go to college, you got to make grades to get out, whatever.
43:49
But your world was way more.
43:53
Your semester wasn't evaluated.
43:55
Every play that you were on the field in slow motion.
43:58
Okay.
43:59
Yeah.
44:00
What did that impact you in regards to receiving the free gift of grace?
44:06
One of the things I tell preachers all the time, by the way, I think they should write
44:10
the verse when Jesus gets baptized and the Bible says that the heavens open to God said,
44:13
behold, my son, I in whom I am well pleased.
44:16
He hadn't done any ministry yet.
44:18
So before he ever did anything, God had already placed his approval on his son.
44:22
Okay.
44:23
What was that transition for me, okay, you went from the most performance based thing
44:30
in the world, professional American athletics, right?
44:36
And now you're a gospel preacher.
44:37
How was that transition for you?
44:39
So in high school, right?
44:41
So me getting a football scholarship was life or life or death.
44:46
It was like there was no plan B.
44:49
So I've worked hard, I learned, I studied, and I love the game.
44:55
I love my coaches.
44:56
I wasn't a believer at the time, but God in this common grace used that.
45:00
So watching film, I mean, there was pressure, but it was like, there was no option.
45:06
Yeah.
45:07
Like this had to take place.
45:08
I get the college and it's like, Oh, also, if you go to the NFL, your high school tape
45:13
is so good.
45:14
I mean, level, because you know, you play where I coach for a bunch of years too.
45:18
And I played high school.
45:20
So the guys that end up in the pros, in high school, they're doing things that one guy,
45:26
every nine counties can do.
45:27
Okay.
45:28
So let's just make it real.
45:29
All right.
45:30
So outside of where would San Antonio high school team, that was fun for you.
45:34
The high school team I played for on defense out of the 11 starters, 10 of us played in
45:40
a 10 of us went to D one, four of us played in the NFL.
45:45
But we lost to Dallas Carter, who had 28 guys to get scholarships.
45:50
Okay.
45:51
Yeah.
45:52
So anyway, it's all different.
45:53
Yeah.
45:54
Yeah.
45:55
Yeah.
45:56
So I mean, so when we, so when I got to college, it was kind of the same thing.
46:00
I mean, college is click, man.
46:02
I was college is going to be why you be why you?
46:05
Yeah.
46:06
So I was none more men went to BYU and I mean, it just, it just, it clicked.
46:12
When I got to the NFL, it was business.
46:15
And that's when the anxiety came, man, film session.
46:20
And so like in high school and college, you know, they kind of, I went to BYU.
46:24
So coaches didn't cuss.
46:26
When I got to the NFL, man, I had coaches like I'll effing blank and fire blank and blank
46:32
before blank.
46:33
And I'm like, what have this is not what I thought it was.
46:38
So every year, every game, like the level of anxiety and like, man, when you make an
46:44
NFL team, the celebration when you make the team is like, yeah.
46:49
But then the next week you're like, man, somebody's going to get cut.
46:51
Yep.
46:52
Like people get cut all the time.
46:53
Wow.
46:54
And so man, I survived and I survived, but your worth is in what you do.
47:00
And it should be right externally.
47:03
It wasn't until my last year when I got saved that I understood, okay, how well our play
47:10
or don't play is no reflection on God's love toward me.
47:15
It doesn't affect my identity.
47:18
And I actually could play better.
47:21
Loose.
47:22
I could play better.
47:23
So the coaches I played best for were ones who said, look son, you're going to make mistakes,
47:29
but you're my guy.
47:30
Oh, yeah.
47:31
I believe in you.
47:32
1996.
47:33
Pre-season cuts.
47:37
And my defensive back coach comes up to me.
47:39
This is warmups.
47:40
He's like, hey man, if you don't play good, we probably going to have to cut you.
47:46
And this is right before the game.
47:48
Like how's that going to encourage me?
47:51
But what he didn't know was we're playing in Houston.
47:54
We're playing in the old Astridome where my senior year in high school, I went ball,
48:02
I went, I balled out, bro, my people's was up in the stands.
48:07
Yeah, let's go.
48:08
I went crazy.
48:10
I sacked Steve McNair.
48:11
I blew up Eddie George.
48:13
I was flying around the field and two days later practice, he goes, you did good.
48:22
And so, you know, and then another experience.
48:26
This is my last year.
48:27
So if you win an NFL game, the locker room is exuberant coaches high five in you.
48:32
If you lose, don't even say it, say it, say it, say anything.
48:35
We're playing Buffalo.
48:36
I didn't play very well, a guy beat me and scored.
48:40
In the game, we lost defensive coordinator walks in.
48:43
He's still in a NFL now and he looks at me with disgust and just walks away.
48:48
And I said to myself, I was a believer in it.
48:50
I said, if I'm ever in a position of leadership, I will value people over their production.
48:57
I can still honor you and cut you.
49:00
Yeah.
49:01
I can still honor you.
49:02
Right.
49:03
And I want you like trash because you didn't play very, very, very good.
49:07
And that, that affected my leadership is I always want people to know I believe in them
49:13
and even if it doesn't work out with us, I'm still in your corner.
49:17
But at the end of the day, even now, leading a church, I mean, we have to show up.
49:24
One of the things that I do often is I'll tell our church, as I'll say, guys, I don't
49:30
have to be lead pastor to be okay because Jesus is my good enough.
49:35
And as a result of that, I can serve you in such a way that I'm not grasping for power,
49:40
but I'm free because Jesus is my good enough on a good day, a bad day.
49:47
He is my good enough.
49:48
And then that frees me to live in overflow.
49:52
As you were saying that, I just think about the number of people that walk into churches
49:58
and they think God is your like your defensive back coach.
50:02
Absolutely.
50:03
And the second song's gone and they're like, Hey man, if you don't play good enough, if
50:08
you don't do good enough, I don't think I'm going to keep you.
50:10
And I'm, I thank you so much for preaching the gospel here.
50:17
Part of what compels me to preach the gospel over and over and over is that it would stamp
50:22
out the lives of the enemy that whisper in people's mind.
50:26
If you don't do good enough, God's done with you.
50:29
Mr. Jobe, you talk a lot about sometimes people compare it was that we talked about this earlier,
50:37
like the difference between God and the Old Testament or the old covenant, it's law, it's
50:41
justice.
50:42
And thank God we have a covenant of grace and it's like, wait a second, which is harder.
50:48
You know, the ethic of love is such a high demand.
50:53
We're close to out of time, but let's close with that.
50:56
Like, I mean, you, you closed the message with this, don't, don't try to bring something
51:02
to God, receive from him because he's our, you were the beat up guy, you know?
51:06
And so put that and close this out with that covenantal perspective of Jesus brought that
51:12
new covenant of grace and it's actually a higher calling than keeping a list of rules.
51:18
I actually think people are more afraid of God's love than God's wrath.
51:24
And the reason why is people already feel like they're not good enough.
51:29
They're not worthy, which they're not, we're sinners.
51:34
And so wrath is kind of like what I expect.
51:37
What's so shocking, what's so scandalous, what's so breathtaking is Jesus says, I'm going
51:46
to the cross and I know everything you've ever done and I want you anyway.
51:54
And that is terrifying to be loved that way because that type of love demands a change.
52:01
A transformation.
52:02
I'd be a good name for church, transformation, church.
52:07
I agree.
52:08
Fellas.
52:09
Thank y'all.
52:10
Let's pray.
52:11
Our good and gracious Heavenly Father God, I thank you so much for my friend, my brother
52:16
Derwin Gray.
52:17
God, thanks for all the things that he's been through in his life and that you have, you
52:22
have used him and shaped him and molded him and placed him and exactly where you would
52:27
have him God.
52:28
I thank you so much for how much he just lifted up you tonight and that you drew a hundred
52:35
and twenty people to you tonight through the proclamation of your word.
52:41
God, I pray your blessings upon his two grown kids, upon his marriage and upon transformation
52:49
church.
52:50
God, I know that because he continuously makes much of you God, then your spirit is in that
52:56
place and where your spirit is, there is freedom and so God, I pray that we would quit trying
53:01
to fix ourselves up, but we would receive your gospel, your love, your grace.
53:08
We pray this in Jesus name, amen.
53:11
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
53:12
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star
53:16
review.
53:17
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info
53:20
at undonton.life.
53:22
That's I-N-F-O at undonton.life.
53:24
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else
53:27
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
53:30
Just go to www.undonton.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
53:35
us to use their music for our content.
53:37
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
53:41
on Face Down Records.
53:42
The links are in the description.
53:44
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
53:46
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
53:53
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
54:07
[music]